25/01/2017

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:00:15. > :00:18.At Holyrood, the Brexit minister Mike Russell will be giving

:00:19. > :00:21.a statement on the Supreme Court ruling on Article 50.

:00:22. > :00:25.And Scotland's exports to both the UK and EU continue to rise,

:00:26. > :00:29.with renewables pushing up the figures.

:00:30. > :00:32.And here at Westminster attention is now turning to the legislation

:00:33. > :00:40.Theresa May has told the Commons that the UK Government will publish

:00:41. > :00:44.The Prime Minister had been under pressure from Labour MPs

:00:45. > :00:47.and a number of Conservatives to take the step, after

:00:48. > :00:50.the Supreme Court ruled that MPs need to give approval

:00:51. > :00:55.The announcement on a white paper came after a question

:00:56. > :01:03.from the Conservative MP Chris Philp.

:01:04. > :01:17.The Prime Minister laid out a clear and bold plan for Brexit in her

:01:18. > :01:20.speech last week. Honourable members, honourable members, quite

:01:21. > :01:25.rightly, want an opportunity to scrutinise that plan. Does the Prime

:01:26. > :01:30.Minister agree that the best way of facilitating better scrutiny would

:01:31. > :01:38.be a government White Paper, laying out our vision for a global Britain,

:01:39. > :01:45.based on free trade in goods and services that will be to the benefit

:01:46. > :01:48.of us and other European countries? My honourable friend raises the

:01:49. > :01:53.question of Parliamentary scrutiny. I have been clear, as have senior

:01:54. > :01:56.ministers, that we will ensure that Parliament has every opportunity to

:01:57. > :02:01.provide scrutiny on this issue as we go through this process. But I

:02:02. > :02:04.recognise I set out that bold plan for a global Britain last week and I

:02:05. > :02:08.recognise there is an appetite in this house to see that plan set out

:02:09. > :02:13.in a White Paper. The question from my honourable friend, the member for

:02:14. > :02:16.Brookstone, last week in the same vein, and I can confirm that our

:02:17. > :02:16.plan will be set out in a White Paper.

:02:17. > :02:22.Let's talk to our Westminster correspondent, David Porter.

:02:23. > :02:30.Was this a surprise? I think it was one of those surprises that people

:02:31. > :02:34.had a fair idea might come. I say that because yes, to some extent it

:02:35. > :02:37.was a bit of a climb-down by the UK Government, probably in an ideal

:02:38. > :02:42.world they would have said, no, we don't want a White Paper, but all

:02:43. > :02:47.treaties and negotiations with Europe before have been subject to a

:02:48. > :02:51.White Paper, so I think it was something that Theresa May thought

:02:52. > :02:54.she would have give ground on, and that's exactly what she did. When

:02:55. > :03:00.you listen to that question, it did seem like it was a planted question

:03:01. > :03:05.that had taken root on those green benches. What it did do, to some

:03:06. > :03:10.extent, as we will probably see later PMQs, it did to some extent

:03:11. > :03:13.wrong-foot the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, who had some questions

:03:14. > :03:16.prepared on the need for a White Paper, and to Weezer May was able to

:03:17. > :03:20.say that she had announced there would be gone. -- Theresa May was

:03:21. > :03:25.able to say she knows that would be one. Important to say that this is a

:03:26. > :03:29.White Paper on UK Government's overall stance on Brexit and the

:03:30. > :03:36.negotiations that will go on, not the legislation to trigger Article

:03:37. > :03:40.50. That legislation will be introduced into the Commons

:03:41. > :03:44.tomorrow. Being a White Paper, it is the government's intention for their

:03:45. > :03:49.Brexit negotiations, but it will not give the detail many MPs would have

:03:50. > :03:53.wanted. You make an important point, that this isn't the same as the bill

:03:54. > :03:59.to trigger Article 50. That will be a very short possibly one liner, we

:04:00. > :04:06.know, two or three lines. But, if the White Paper is not supposed to

:04:07. > :04:11.give away Theresa May's negotiating stance, yet it is a White Paper,

:04:12. > :04:16.what is it supposed to do? What it can do is sort of say to the

:04:17. > :04:19.government's own backbench MPs and opposition MPs, these are the areas,

:04:20. > :04:25.this is the general stance we will be taking, this is what we are

:04:26. > :04:28.hoping to achieve. But I think anybody who would expect a document

:04:29. > :04:32.basically giving away state secrets is going to be very much

:04:33. > :04:37.disappointed. What she can say is, I have listened to what MPs have been

:04:38. > :04:41.saying, a number of MPs this morning were calling for a White Paper on

:04:42. > :04:45.the negotiations. They have not got that. So she can go to the house and

:04:46. > :04:50.say, look, I've listened to what you have said, I have acted on and you

:04:51. > :04:54.will get a White Paper, but quite powerful that White Paper will be,

:04:55. > :04:59.we will only find out when it is published. We will be back with you

:05:00. > :05:02.later and you have to give us some time to digest the news that there

:05:03. > :05:03.may be planted questions in the house!

:05:04. > :05:07.Scotland's trade with the rest of the UK continues to be worth four

:05:08. > :05:09.times more than its exports to the EU, according

:05:10. > :05:12.Renewable electricity through cables going south of the border has helped

:05:13. > :05:15.drive the value of Scottish sales to the rest of the UK close

:05:16. > :05:19.International exports were also up around 4% during 2015.

:05:20. > :05:22.But there is a political battle over which markets are most

:05:23. > :05:28.Our business and economy editor, Douglas Fraser, reports.

:05:29. > :05:37.This is a wind factory in central Glasgow making small-scale wind

:05:38. > :05:42.turbines. They have just made their 1000th wind turbine in six years.

:05:43. > :05:46.They now mainly export what they produce. In fact, wind power is one

:05:47. > :05:50.of the reasons why there has been an increase in sales of goods and

:05:51. > :05:57.services from Scotland into the rest of the UK. That total value is ?50

:05:58. > :06:03.billion, for these 2015 figures. Exports to the whole of the rest of

:06:04. > :06:08.the world came to around ?29 billion that year, and to the EU, within the

:06:09. > :06:12.European Union, ?12 billion of sales. From the point of view of the

:06:13. > :06:17.UK Government, that suggests that the UK market is four times more

:06:18. > :06:21.important as the EU market but, from the Scottish Government point of

:06:22. > :06:24.view, arguing that Scotland ought to stay within the European single

:06:25. > :06:27.market, they are saying that the potential of the whole EU market is

:06:28. > :06:28.eight times bigger than the British one.

:06:29. > :06:30.Now, later this week, Theresa May will be talking trade

:06:31. > :06:32.with the new US President Donald Trump.

:06:33. > :06:35.But, while those talks go on, the post of the Scottish Government's

:06:36. > :06:37.official representative to the United States lies empty

:06:38. > :06:39.after the last incumbent stood down suddenly in November.

:06:40. > :06:50.John McManus looks at the diplomatic and economic challenges ahead.

:06:51. > :06:57.Typically high-powered entrants for one of Scotland's 's most famous and

:06:58. > :07:01.controversial investors. When he dropped in on his Turnberry golf

:07:02. > :07:05.course, Donald Trump was still a presidential contender. Now he is

:07:06. > :07:11.the most powerful man on earth. No longer the butt of jokes. I'm not

:07:12. > :07:17.sure he will be wanting to phone me. In the highly unlikely event that he

:07:18. > :07:22.becomes president. What would your message be? I am on the other line,

:07:23. > :07:26.sorry for the now leaders will definitely take his calls. The First

:07:27. > :07:30.Minister congratulated Mr Trump on his win and issued a warning. That

:07:31. > :07:34.doesn't mean I don't respect the fact that America had elected him as

:07:35. > :07:37.their president is therefore I hope we can have a constructive

:07:38. > :07:43.relationship and I hope that Donald Trump the president turned out to be

:07:44. > :07:46.a very different person to Donald Trump the candidate. Strong

:07:47. > :07:53.relations between Scotland and the US are vital, not least for trade.

:07:54. > :07:57.The government's business agency, Scottish developers International,

:07:58. > :08:02.says the US is Scotland's's biggest source of foreign inward investment.

:08:03. > :08:06.Over six years, it secured more than 13,000 jobs from US companies with a

:08:07. > :08:10.combined investment of ?1 billion, and there could be further

:08:11. > :08:16.opportunities, but only if the right support is there. The US is

:08:17. > :08:19.Scotland's's biggest export market. We have great Scottish companies

:08:20. > :08:25.selling into that market, for example in the drinks sector, brew

:08:26. > :08:29.dog, a young brewing company. They are expanding into the US market was

:08:30. > :08:32.well established links such as salmon and whiskey. It's a big

:08:33. > :08:40.market. We have high-tech companies that we are looking to expand their,

:08:41. > :08:46.such as people selling software and the US hospital market. The Scottish

:08:47. > :08:49.Government as an office in the British Embassy in Washington,

:08:50. > :08:53.dedicated to selling brand Scotland, but there has been nobody in the

:08:54. > :08:59.driving seat since November when the last head moved on. And in 2010 the

:09:00. > :09:02.government published its plan for engagement with the United States,

:09:03. > :09:09.detailing the steps it would take to promote across the Atlantic. It

:09:10. > :09:12.promised annual updates, but the last comprehensive review detailing

:09:13. > :09:15.numbers of jobs created and links forged was in 2013. So, as the

:09:16. > :09:17.government dropped the ball? The Scottish Government has released

:09:18. > :09:19.a statement saying the US is an important market for Scotland

:09:20. > :09:21.and interim arrangements are in place in the Washington

:09:22. > :09:24.office after Daniel Jack returned Former Labour MP Tom Harris

:09:25. > :09:38.is in the studio with me today. And, I should say, the man who ran

:09:39. > :09:44.the Brexit campaign in Scotland. Is this turning out the way that you

:09:45. > :09:50.wanted or expected it to turn out? It's... It is a solid a shape at the

:09:51. > :09:54.moment as I probably expected it to be. There is a not longer bit

:09:55. > :09:58.between now and when we finally leave the EU before we see any solid

:09:59. > :10:03.shape of what the deal is going to look like. But the emerging view of

:10:04. > :10:09.the British government, that they want to be out of the single market

:10:10. > :10:12.and possibly, they are not quite solid, but possibly if not probably

:10:13. > :10:18.out of the customs union, is that what you would have wanted? Pretty

:10:19. > :10:21.much. Even some of the more moderate Labour MPs who have finally worked

:10:22. > :10:26.out that freedom of movement has to change in some way, even they are

:10:27. > :10:30.saying that is more important now than having membership of the single

:10:31. > :10:35.market. If Theresa May can get what she says she wants, she can get

:10:36. > :10:39.tariff free access to the single market, allowing Britain to control

:10:40. > :10:42.its borders, of course, that is something that nobody would

:10:43. > :10:47.criticise and everybody would welcome. But can she achieved that

:10:48. > :10:51.in negotiations? We will find out in the next two years. The Scottish

:10:52. > :10:54.Government would say that isn't enough, they don't just want tariff

:10:55. > :11:00.free access, because that would mean giving up the single market it,

:11:01. > :11:05.which means the regulations are the same across Europe. It isn't the

:11:06. > :11:09.same. To all intents and purposes, it is the only difference is we no

:11:10. > :11:14.longer have to pay all that money to the EU and we wouldn't have to abide

:11:15. > :11:18.by the European Court of Justice. Collect your thoughts, because we

:11:19. > :11:23.are going to to the chamber, where the Scottish pigment's Brexit

:11:24. > :11:25.minister, Mike Russell, is making a statement about the judgment from

:11:26. > :11:31.the Supreme Court about triggering Article 50.

:11:32. > :11:36.That comes as a stinging rebuke to the UK Government and its stubborn

:11:37. > :11:40.refusal to accept the previous unanimous court ruling that an act

:11:41. > :11:45.of Poland was required before formal notification of the decision to

:11:46. > :11:49.leave the EU. -- act of Parliament. Instead, it tried to plough on

:11:50. > :11:54.towards a hard Brexit. Effective UK Parliamentary scrutiny is now

:11:55. > :11:57.enabled. The parties and members at Westminster will have to rise to

:11:58. > :12:02.that challenge. The SNP is more than ready to do that. Once the UK

:12:03. > :12:07.Government publishes its Article 50 Bill, 50 SNP MPs in the House of

:12:08. > :12:15.Commons will bring forward a range of amendments... I am sorry, to

:12:16. > :12:21.understate the number. There are of course more than that. Far more than

:12:22. > :12:25.the one Tory MP from Scotland in the House of Commons.

:12:26. > :12:30.APPLAUSE SNP MPs in the House of Commons will

:12:31. > :12:34.bring forward amendments to Claire Baker UK Government's approach to

:12:35. > :12:38.drug ring Article 50. Some of those will seek to amend the bill so that

:12:39. > :12:48.the UK Government must first secured unanimous agreement from the

:12:49. > :12:51.joint... In July last year, the Prime Minister assured the First

:12:52. > :12:55.Minister that Article 50 would not be triggered and still we had a UK

:12:56. > :12:59.approach for negotiations, in line with Theresa May's clear and

:13:00. > :13:03.unambiguous view of how the UK should operate, saying that it

:13:04. > :13:07.should be a country in which Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland

:13:08. > :13:09.and England continued to flourish side-by-side as equal partners. Of

:13:10. > :13:16.course, that is a sentiment expressed by all of the Better

:13:17. > :13:19.Together partners during the referendum. Taking the Prime

:13:20. > :13:24.Minister at her word, which I'm sure will be welcomed by cheering from

:13:25. > :13:28.the Tory benches, when it is brought forward, we will seek to enforce

:13:29. > :13:31.that. Presiding officer, there was another aspect of the judgment,

:13:32. > :13:37.which has made one thing crystal clear, because this whole process,

:13:38. > :13:41.the determination of the UK Government to pursue a disastrous

:13:42. > :13:46.hard Brexit, is revealing much about the way power is exercised in the UK

:13:47. > :13:48.and who exercises that power. Yesterday, the Supreme Court

:13:49. > :13:52.considered the arguments put forward in interventions to the Lord

:13:53. > :13:57.advocate and Welsh council general on the devolution implications of

:13:58. > :13:59.triggering Article 50 was that we are obviously disappointed with the

:14:00. > :14:06.ruling about the legal enforceability of this, but let's be

:14:07. > :14:10.clear about what the judgment said. Notifying the intention to leave the

:14:11. > :14:13.EU will have significant consequences for devolved matters

:14:14. > :14:17.and the powers of the Scottish Government, and the court explicitly

:14:18. > :14:23.accepted that. In so doing, it's obvious that the convention is

:14:24. > :14:26.triggered by a UK bill authorising the Article 50 notice. What the

:14:27. > :14:31.court has ruled is that the operation of the convention is a

:14:32. > :14:34.political, not a legal matter, and therefore outside the remit of the

:14:35. > :14:39.court, a position urged on the court by the UK Government. It also

:14:40. > :14:43.resisted any and all efforts to give real teeth to the Scotland act

:14:44. > :14:47.provisions on the school convention. The UK Government has at least been

:14:48. > :14:52.consistent. Under no circumstances, it has said, should its action be

:14:53. > :14:55.questioned by judicial authority. The Tories may wish to reflect on

:14:56. > :15:01.the wisdom of gloating on this point. Rather than a defeat for the

:15:02. > :15:04.Scottish Government, the ruling exposed the inadequacy of the Smith

:15:05. > :15:11.commission process and, for those who believe that writing Sewell into

:15:12. > :15:17.law would represent a new status for the Scottish Parliament. It is in

:15:18. > :15:21.fact a deceit for the Tory architects of the Scotland Bill

:15:22. > :15:27.2016, architects including the Tory constitutional spokesman. But it is

:15:28. > :15:33.a wider defeat. As one community commentator has noted, yesterday's

:15:34. > :15:39.ruling is a disappointment on the rights of Holyrood is that was an

:15:40. > :15:46.opportunity, said Kenny Farquharson of the Times, to recognise the new

:15:47. > :15:50.reality of a changed UK. This is, he said, a depressing moment for those

:15:51. > :15:55.of us who have consistently backed home rule for Scotland within a

:15:56. > :15:58.reformed UK. Yesterday's ruling demonstrates how empty work the

:15:59. > :16:03.assurances of being a partnership of equals and that the Scotland act

:16:04. > :16:07.would represent a new settlement. The UK Government merely reinforces

:16:08. > :16:10.the old view, the supremacy of Westminster, its immunity from

:16:11. > :16:12.constraint by law courts or respect for this parliament.

:16:13. > :16:14.Now, earlier this week, MSPs travelled to Brussels to rally

:16:15. > :16:18.One them was David McAllister, who only yesterday was appointed

:16:19. > :16:20.the chair of the European Parliament's foreign

:16:21. > :16:33.David McAllister, can you hear me? Have you joined us? Yes, good

:16:34. > :16:39.afternoon from Brussels. I can see you now! First of all, what is the

:16:40. > :16:47.mood amongst MEPs towards Brexit at the moment? Is it to try to do a

:16:48. > :16:50.friendly deal with the UK which might involve some access,

:16:51. > :16:55.tariff-free access for Britain to the single market or is it a fear

:16:56. > :17:02.that if that were done, it might encourage other people to do the

:17:03. > :17:08.same? Of course I can't speak for all MEPs in Brussels and Strasbourg.

:17:09. > :17:12.In general, I would say a huge majority deeply regrets what

:17:13. > :17:15.happened on 23rd June in the UK. After the speech of the Prime

:17:16. > :17:19.Minister, we know the UK is facing a hard Brexit. That means the EU will

:17:20. > :17:24.not only leave the European Union but also have to leave the single

:17:25. > :17:30.market. So, we're now all waiting for the Government in London to

:17:31. > :17:34.actually trigger the Article 50 procedure and we'll go into the

:17:35. > :17:39.details. Before that, we can't begin the negotiations as long as there's

:17:40. > :17:44.no notification. I think a lot of my colleagues are interested in finding

:17:45. > :17:49.a sensible deal with the British. But, as Jean-Claude Juncker put it,

:17:50. > :17:55.the negotiations are going to be very, very difficult. When you say a

:17:56. > :17:58.sensible deal, do you mean one where there's a bit of give and take on

:17:59. > :18:02.both sides? It seems to be accepted Britain will be outside the single

:18:03. > :18:11.market. Is that, in your view, quite as black and white as it seems?

:18:12. > :18:16.Well, the Prime Minister has ruled out the Norwegian or Swiss model.

:18:17. > :18:20.She also wants to leave the customs union so the Turkish model is also

:18:21. > :18:27.not an option. This really only leaves, in the end, that we will

:18:28. > :18:33.negotiate free trade agreement, a trade agreement with the UK and one

:18:34. > :18:40.thing is clear, if the UK wants to continue to export goods into the EU

:18:41. > :18:45.single market without tariffs and trade barriers, they will have to

:18:46. > :18:51.respect our rules in the internal market. So, it's going to be not

:18:52. > :18:56.easy but once again, whatever happens, the UK remains a friend,

:18:57. > :19:00.ally and partner of the European Union. It is just so sad that this

:19:01. > :19:05.country is leaving our family of nations. There has been some

:19:06. > :19:09.suggestion here that there might be different deals for different parts

:19:10. > :19:14.of industry. Something I would think you personally might take an

:19:15. > :19:17.interest in. At one point, you were on the supervisory board of

:19:18. > :19:24.Volkswagen through running the lower state of Saxony. Are people in

:19:25. > :19:28.Germany concerned about what this deal the British Government seems to

:19:29. > :19:33.have done with Nissan amounts to? Is there concern there to find out

:19:34. > :19:37.exactly what's going on? Especially in Germany, lots of people were

:19:38. > :19:43.disappointed after the referendum because we believe that the UK's

:19:44. > :19:46.such a valuable and important partner for us in the European

:19:47. > :19:50.Union. The European Union will be a different one without the British.

:19:51. > :19:55.However, we have to respect the politics of the Government in

:19:56. > :20:01.London. Germans in general are following very closely what's

:20:02. > :20:04.happening in the United Kingdom. No other country's getting such media

:20:05. > :20:10.attention when it comes to national politics as the UK is getting. We

:20:11. > :20:15.also understand that there are big divides in your country, especially

:20:16. > :20:21.between the four nations. I thought the 62% in favour of EU membership

:20:22. > :20:25.in favour of Scotland was an impressive vote from the Scottish

:20:26. > :20:31.people. When you say that, do you think there's any possibility... The

:20:32. > :20:36.Scottish Government is arguing Scotland should be allowed to stay

:20:37. > :20:40.in the single market perhaps by joining E FT A while remaining part

:20:41. > :20:48.of the UK. Is that something you can see has any possibility of success?

:20:49. > :20:51.I read the report coming from the Scottish Government with great

:20:52. > :21:06.interest and in detail. I think it's an interesting approach to try and

:21:07. > :21:10.find out if a part of the UK could join EFTA. This is a complicated

:21:11. > :21:16.legal question which, at the moment, I can't comment on. You'll have to

:21:17. > :21:21.find expertise and get an answer if E FT A will be billing willing to do

:21:22. > :21:25.so or not. Can you see the European Union, including Germany, being

:21:26. > :21:32.prepared to entertain such a state of affairs? This is a domestic,

:21:33. > :21:38.British political question. Sorry, no, it's not. If Scotland were to do

:21:39. > :21:43.that, the rest of the European Union would have to agree to Scotland

:21:44. > :21:47.doing this. It's not just a Scottish domestic question. Yes, but the

:21:48. > :21:51.question if Scotland could be able to join an international

:21:52. > :21:54.organisation like E FT A would probably have to be sorted out with

:21:55. > :22:00.London. This is a domestic political question. That's why I beg your

:22:01. > :22:05.pardon, as a German politician, I prefer not to get dragged into these

:22:06. > :22:09.kind of details. What is the view in Germany about this? You said people

:22:10. > :22:16.want some sort of amicable settlement. The Brexiteers in

:22:17. > :22:19.Britain like to say countries of the European Union, including Germany,

:22:20. > :22:24.are so dependent on Britain for exports, they'll have to do a deal.

:22:25. > :22:28.Is that the mood in Germany or we'll try to do a deal but if the British

:22:29. > :22:34.just leave, it's not the end of the world? First of all, we have to get

:22:35. > :22:39.the withdrawal agreement done. This will take two years. It will be very

:22:40. > :22:44.ambitious. We have to get it down before the next European elections

:22:45. > :22:50.in May 2019. Afterwards, we'll definitely need a longer period of

:22:51. > :22:56.time, several years, to negotiate a new trade agreement. In the

:22:57. > :22:59.meantime, the UK will have to operate in a transitional period

:23:00. > :23:02.with the relationship with the European Union. Of course Germany

:23:03. > :23:05.and other countries are interested in good trade relations with the UK.

:23:06. > :23:09.It is an important market for our goods and services. But, on the

:23:10. > :23:17.other hand, the UK is heavily dependent on the European single

:23:18. > :23:20.market. We, as 27 member states, are in a better negotiating position

:23:21. > :23:26.than the UK which asked for this divorce. We didn't ask for this. If

:23:27. > :23:30.it's a soft or hard Brexit, the will's make sure it is not a nasty

:23:31. > :23:33.or dirty Brexit. Thank you for joining us this afternoon.

:23:34. > :23:37.Former Labour MP Tom Harris is still with me.

:23:38. > :23:46.They don't want this but they seem quite prepared to do a deal? If

:23:47. > :23:51.would be the implication of that. If David is representative of the kind

:23:52. > :23:54.of approach that the EU's taking to Brexit negotiations, that's a good

:23:55. > :24:02.sign. That's someone who's thought deeply about all of the issues,

:24:03. > :24:06.doesn't want thereby any kind of major fisture between us and the EU

:24:07. > :24:11.and wants to do a reasonable deal. Anyone looking at this will say the

:24:12. > :24:16.UK's Government is not going to get all its own way nor the EU. There

:24:17. > :24:21.will be compromise. What about the Scottish Government's approach? It's

:24:22. > :24:26.interesting. To an extent I sympathise with the approach Nicola

:24:27. > :24:31.Sturgeon's taking on this. As you say earlier on, it's not the choice

:24:32. > :24:35.but if it were the choice that Scotland had to clues the EU single

:24:36. > :24:41.market or the UK single market in the event of independence within the

:24:42. > :24:46.EU, clearly the UK market's four times as important to the Scottish

:24:47. > :24:51.economy as the single market in the EU is. Can I point out, Brexiteers

:24:52. > :24:54.say, when they is brought up with regard to Britain and the importance

:24:55. > :24:58.of trade with Europe, they say, that doesn't matter. The growth in trade

:24:59. > :25:04.is all coming from outside the European Union. It doesn't meater

:25:05. > :25:09.40% of our tried is with Europe, the biggest growth is outside. The same

:25:10. > :25:14.argument could be made with Scotland relative to the UK. You can't have

:25:15. > :25:18.your cake and eat it? Well you can according to the Foreign Secretary.

:25:19. > :25:22.Let's look at it in purely practical economic terms. The Scottish

:25:23. > :25:27.nationalists are saying England won't deal with an independent

:25:28. > :25:30.Scotland. The point is, an independent Scotland, the EU will

:25:31. > :25:36.have no control over its trade. It will be decided by the EU. If the

:25:37. > :25:39.rest of the UK he is paying tariffs into the single market, that means

:25:40. > :25:43.tariffs to get into the Scottish market. We need to think seriously

:25:44. > :25:49.about the practical implications of that. In terms of politics, do you

:25:50. > :25:55.think the British Government is playing its hand with regard to the

:25:56. > :25:59.Scottish Government sensibly? They are giving the impression, every

:26:00. > :26:06.time Nicola Sturgeon says something, no. Wouldn't it be more sensible to

:26:07. > :26:09.say look, they are exciting opportunities. Let's start talks on

:26:10. > :26:15.that rather than appearing to be saying, go away? I totally agree.

:26:16. > :26:19.The worst thing that Conservative ministers can do is come up to

:26:20. > :26:26.Scotland, pretend to listen. Immediately dismisit. That riles up

:26:27. > :26:30.Scots completely understandably. What's important, yesterday's

:26:31. > :26:37.Supreme Court ruling was a real slam dung for the UK Government. For --

:26:38. > :26:40.dunk. For the first time, the Supreme Court reminded that the EU

:26:41. > :26:47.is nothing to do with the Holyrood Parliament. What we heard Mike

:26:48. > :26:57.Russell appear to be suggestioning, the join committee would have to

:26:58. > :27:00.unanimously approve. Would it be aye right? That would be my view.

:27:01. > :27:02.Now to this week's Prime Minister's Questions,

:27:03. > :27:05.where Theresa May announced that a white paper on the Government's

:27:06. > :27:08.plan to leave the EU would be laid before the Westminster parliament.

:27:09. > :27:11.The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, pressed her on why she had taken

:27:12. > :27:13.so long to announce the move, and asked when she intended

:27:14. > :27:26.Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister has wasted 80 days between the time of

:27:27. > :27:31.the original judgment and the appeal and is now finally admitted today,

:27:32. > :27:36.after pressure from all sides, that there's going to be a White Paper.

:27:37. > :27:44.Could we know when this White Paper is going to be available to us? And

:27:45. > :27:54.why, and why it's taken so long to get it? Can I say to the right

:27:55. > :27:58.honourable gentleman, he asked for debates. I was clear there would

:27:59. > :28:02.always be debates in this House. There have been and will continue to

:28:03. > :28:07.be. He asked for votes. There have been. The House voted overwhelmingly

:28:08. > :28:11.for the Government to trigger Article 50 before the end of March

:28:12. > :28:16.this year. He asked for a plan. I set out as my honourable friend for

:28:17. > :28:21.Croydon South said, a clear plan for a bold future for Britain. He and

:28:22. > :28:26.others asked for a white many. I've been clear there will be a White

:28:27. > :28:30.Paper. What I'm also clear about is that the right honourable gentleman

:28:31. > :28:34.always asks about process, about the means to the end. I and this

:28:35. > :28:42.Government are focusing on the outcomes. We are focusing... We're

:28:43. > :28:47.focusing on a truly global Britain, building a stronger future for this

:28:48. > :28:50.country, the right deal for Britain out of the European Union.

:28:51. > :28:55.Yesterday, the Government lost in the Supreme Court. Today, we have a

:28:56. > :29:01.very welcome U-turn on a White Paper in regards to Brexit. So, in the

:29:02. > :29:04.spirit of progress for Parliament, in advance of meeting President

:29:05. > :29:12.Trump, will the Prime Minister tell Parliament what she wants to achieve

:29:13. > :29:17.in a UK/US trade deal? Can I join the right honourable gentleman in

:29:18. > :29:23.his good wishes for a happy Burns Day. And in recognising the

:29:24. > :29:28.bi-Centenary of the Scotsman. What do we want to achieve in terms of

:29:29. > :29:33.our arrangements with United States? It is simple. We want to ensure the

:29:34. > :29:37.interests of the UK are there that are put first. That's what I will be

:29:38. > :29:41.doing. That we see trade arrangements with the United States

:29:42. > :29:44.as we'll look for in other parts of the world, that can increase our

:29:45. > :29:50.trade, Brigg prosperity and growth to the UK. My aim is to ensure that

:29:51. > :29:55.economy works for everyone in every part of the United Kingdom. When she

:29:56. > :29:59.meets with the First Minister, will she confirm whether she, the Prime

:30:00. > :30:03.Minister, supports the principle of the Scotland Act whatever is not

:30:04. > :30:08.reserved is deinvolved. What powers will come to the Scottish Parliament

:30:09. > :30:14.in the event of Brexit? Can she confirm it will not be the great

:30:15. > :30:19.power grab? I've been clear. It was ex-owed by the Secretary of State

:30:20. > :30:23.for exiting the European Union, no powers that are currently devolved

:30:24. > :30:27.will be suddenly taken back to the UK Government. What we will be

:30:28. > :30:31.looking at and discussing with the devolved administrations is how we

:30:32. > :30:36.deal with those powers which are currently in Brussels when they come

:30:37. > :30:40.back to the UK. We want to ensure is that those powers are dealt with so

:30:41. > :30:42.we can maintain the important single market of the UK.

:30:43. > :30:50.to our Westminster Correspondent David Porter.

:30:51. > :30:58.Balmy weather there, and hopefully some MPs, too. Balmy weather if you

:30:59. > :31:05.are used to the Arctic Circle! Let me introduce my panel. Stephen

:31:06. > :31:08.Gethins, the SNP MP, Frank McCallan from Labour, Alistair Carmichael

:31:09. > :31:13.from the Liberal Democrats and Ian Stewart from the Conservatives, who

:31:14. > :31:19.has the rare treat, I suppose, of having this constituency celebrating

:31:20. > :31:23.his 50th birthday. Happy birthday to Milton Keynes! Alistair Carmichael,

:31:24. > :31:30.the Prime Minister, Theresa May, has announced that there will be a White

:31:31. > :31:34.Paper on Brexit. Is it a concession or was it good politics? Bowing to

:31:35. > :31:39.the inevitable, and the fact there is going to be a White Paper doesn't

:31:40. > :31:42.tell you much. We will judge the substance of the approach when we

:31:43. > :31:48.see what is in the White Paper, because every time we get promised

:31:49. > :31:50.some more information, come the day, it's always rather thinner, more

:31:51. > :31:57.disappointing than we had been led to expect. It might be a White Paper

:31:58. > :32:02.with quite a few blank pages in it. We certainly contribute all of the

:32:03. > :32:07.details of our negotiating stance in advance. That isn't in the national

:32:08. > :32:10.interest. I think it's unfair to say the Prime Minister hasn't been clear

:32:11. > :32:15.about what her ambition is. Her speech last week was a bold and

:32:16. > :32:19.visionary prospect of the opportunities that this country can

:32:20. > :32:22.take advantage of. We have been coming to Parliament, we will be

:32:23. > :32:26.coming to Parliament, there is the great repeal bill still to come,

:32:27. > :32:30.there will be plenty of Parliamentary scrutiny, but we

:32:31. > :32:35.cannot in any negotiations, you do not reveal your negotiating hand in

:32:36. > :32:38.advance. I think it's fair to say that perhaps the announcement

:32:39. > :32:42.slightly wrong-footed your party leader. Are we perhaps looking at

:32:43. > :32:45.this through the wrong end of the telescope, saying, there will be a

:32:46. > :32:49.White Paper, but actually the real concern should be good deal and what

:32:50. > :32:54.comes out at the end? That is my view. In a sense, I don't think the

:32:55. > :32:58.interesting question is whether or not there is a White Paper. I think

:32:59. > :33:07.there will be a sizeable majority to trigger Article 50 when the votes

:33:08. > :33:12.come. And I think that attention will then turn on the nature of the

:33:13. > :33:15.deal. That ultimately is the most important part of this, what is our

:33:16. > :33:22.future outside the EU going to be like? The Prime Minister set some

:33:23. > :33:25.bars for herself last week, promising not just tariff free

:33:26. > :33:28.access but barrier free access for our goods and services and

:33:29. > :33:34.agriculture, and she now needs to make sure that she delivers on that

:33:35. > :33:39.come because we are promised a vote at the end of this as well, and I

:33:40. > :33:42.think that vote is becoming much more important. Stephen Gethins,

:33:43. > :33:48.your party is minded to vote against Article 50. You said you would table

:33:49. > :33:56.50 amendments on it. Article 50 is going to be triggered, so why does

:33:57. > :33:59.the SNP not accept that? This is a job of scrutiny. This has a big

:34:00. > :34:04.impact on everybody. Let's take the White Paper, look, I'm pleased that

:34:05. > :34:08.Theresa May has caved in on this, but I also raised an important point

:34:09. > :34:12.earlier, we need some substance here, so we want to see a

:34:13. > :34:15.substantive White Paper with a bit of detail in it, and it needs to be

:34:16. > :34:21.produced before the committee stage of any bill triggering Article 50.

:34:22. > :34:24.We need to be able to scrutinise this properly, it is part of our job

:34:25. > :34:29.and we have a responsibility to that. When does a substantial White

:34:30. > :34:35.Paper veer into giving our negotiating position away? The

:34:36. > :34:40.Scottish Government managed to produce a 670 page White Paper. We

:34:41. > :34:44.are not asking for that number of pages, but we are asking for a bit

:34:45. > :34:48.more detail. What happens to university funding, the food and

:34:49. > :34:52.drink sector, EU nationals who have made the UK and Scotland their home?

:34:53. > :34:56.These are areas we need answers on. Stephen Gethins mentioned, the

:34:57. > :35:03.Scottish Government produced a comprehensive document on the EU and

:35:04. > :35:08.Brexit. Would you be looking for something similar from the UK

:35:09. > :35:11.Government? I'm not sure everyone would regard that document

:35:12. > :35:15.necessarily as the model of what has to happen, but what I would say is

:35:16. > :35:19.that we are involved in a lot of process here, and I think what

:35:20. > :35:24.matters most to the viewers, to our constituents around the country is,

:35:25. > :35:30.what is the content on this? We had a speech last week. We had major

:35:31. > :35:33.industrial sectors here in Parliament yesterday, automotive,

:35:34. > :35:37.aerospace, pharmaceuticals, all expressing severe concern about

:35:38. > :35:43.where the Prime Minister's direction would lead us, and ultimately that

:35:44. > :35:48.is what matters and what does this all do to our trading position, to

:35:49. > :35:51.investment, to prosperity? Those things are not clear yet but I

:35:52. > :35:56.think, as we go through this process, that is where the focus

:35:57. > :36:00.will rightly be. I suppose, however much information the government is

:36:01. > :36:05.able to give, the Westminster government, it is not going to be

:36:06. > :36:10.enough for everybody, is it? There are some people who want to thwart

:36:11. > :36:13.the whole process and imagine that the referendum never happen. Article

:36:14. > :36:18.50 is the start of a process, not the end of it, and we will go into

:36:19. > :36:21.these negotiations trying to get the best deal for this country. The

:36:22. > :36:26.Prime Minister has been quite clear on some issues, like the rights of

:36:27. > :36:32.EU residents in the UK. She wants that to be an early agreement, as

:36:33. > :36:36.long as we can then secured the rights of UK citizens living abroad.

:36:37. > :36:41.She has given details on this. And the person who could make that

:36:42. > :36:44.happen today, if she chose to, is Theresa May, but still she refuses

:36:45. > :36:51.to deal with that and to show a bit of initiative. And they are right,

:36:52. > :36:55.negotiations will happen, the deal will then be judged. Theresa May has

:36:56. > :36:58.conceded the principle that the government will not have the last

:36:59. > :37:04.word on that, that Parliament will have a vote on it. I think that's

:37:05. > :37:06.the wrong way around and, if we are to have somebody outside government

:37:07. > :37:11.giving the final verdict on that, it shouldn't be Parliament. The process

:37:12. > :37:14.should be finished by the people, in the same way it was started by the

:37:15. > :37:18.people and they should be a referendum on the deal.

:37:19. > :37:24.So that is only argument for a second vote on Europe. And on the

:37:25. > :37:29.deal. But you would say that, when she comes back with a Brexit deal,

:37:30. > :37:33.it should not be up to you four individuals as part of 650, it

:37:34. > :37:40.should be up to the UK to vote again? What Theresa May is offering

:37:41. > :37:44.Parliament is a meaningless gesture, because you know the context of that

:37:45. > :37:50.vote in parliament, when it comes, and it will be that they dare not

:37:51. > :37:53.thwart the will of the people as has been expressed in a referendum. That

:37:54. > :37:58.is what you are already hearing, and I have some sympathy for that. If

:37:59. > :38:01.there is to be a meaningful decision on this, it should be taken by the

:38:02. > :38:06.same people who took the first decision, the people of the country

:38:07. > :38:12.as a whole in a referendum. It is the politically consistent and

:38:13. > :38:15.logical thing to do. The electorate at large is sovereign. If it is such

:38:16. > :38:21.an important decision, there is some logic in saying that they should

:38:22. > :38:24.have another say? The country has given an instruction that it is

:38:25. > :38:29.Parliament's job to deliver on it. It seems a bit early to be talking

:38:30. > :38:33.about a second referendum, just months after the first one, but I

:38:34. > :38:38.asked the Prime Minister in PMQs today about the nature of this final

:38:39. > :38:43.vote. Would it mean an alternative deal, is Parliament says no to it,

:38:44. > :38:48.or would it mean us falling back on the world trade organisation rules

:38:49. > :38:54.in a disorganised manner, some very high tariffs in there for particular

:38:55. > :38:59.sectors, 10% on car exports, for example, 20% on food and drink. This

:39:00. > :39:03.could have huge implications. So I think this point about the deal and

:39:04. > :39:09.how it assessed at the end is going to become more important. Scotland

:39:10. > :39:12.voted overwhelmingly to remain part of the EU, so I think we need to see

:39:13. > :39:16.a bit of compromise from the government here. The Scottish

:39:17. > :39:19.Government have produced plans on what could be the least worst

:39:20. > :39:24.option. This is about protecting jobs and the economy. We need some

:39:25. > :39:29.movement from the UK Government. The Prime Minister is about to go to

:39:30. > :39:33.America to meet President Trump. What should she be saying? Clearly

:39:34. > :39:38.she is closing up to the United States. It is an important partner

:39:39. > :39:43.in trade. But it worries me broadly that we seem to be getting closer to

:39:44. > :39:48.Trump's United States and to our like-minded European partners.

:39:49. > :39:52.Should she be building bridges or saying, on certain things, we

:39:53. > :39:58.disagree and I will speak out? I think the tone of what she says is

:39:59. > :40:01.very important. I think it's a shame that President Trump chose his

:40:02. > :40:06.inauguration speech to emphasise some of the more divisive themes in

:40:07. > :40:09.his campaign, than doing what new presidents have traditionally done,

:40:10. > :40:13.bringing people together, and I think she has some important

:40:14. > :40:18.messages to deliver, about Nato not being obsolete but a cornerstone of

:40:19. > :40:21.collective western defence and not putting Chancellor Merkel and

:40:22. > :40:26.President Putin in the same bracket, as he recently did in a newspaper

:40:27. > :40:30.interview. This is quite a feather in Theresa May's cap, but it is also

:40:31. > :40:34.important for setting the tone between the new president and the

:40:35. > :40:39.international community. We have a special relationship with the US,

:40:40. > :40:44.and we have had it for many decades. As a close friend of America,

:40:45. > :40:47.sometimes close friends say harsh truths. I think the Prime Minister

:40:48. > :40:52.has been clear on things like climate change, which came up today,

:40:53. > :40:56.that she will not be afraid to take a different line. The special

:40:57. > :41:01.relationship is between the two peoples of Britain and the US.

:41:02. > :41:04.Sometimes the administrations have a more special relationship and

:41:05. > :41:08.others. This is an important point for setting the tone of that

:41:09. > :41:12.relationship. Donald Trump said some worrying things during the campaign

:41:13. > :41:14.and, to my mind, one of the most worrying is his intention to

:41:15. > :41:21.reinstate the American torture programme. There are significant

:41:22. > :41:25.strategic issues for the UK. We have always shared intelligence with the

:41:26. > :41:29.United States. We cannot share intelligence with a country that

:41:30. > :41:35.openly uses torture. Thank you very much. The clock has beaten us. But I

:41:36. > :41:42.am sure next week we will be discussing Brexit and maybe that

:41:43. > :41:49.visit to Washington. Tom Harris, Trump. Are you a fan? Good grief,

:41:50. > :41:52.no! I was hugely upset and disappointed on the morning after

:41:53. > :42:00.the election but, as I wrote a number of times before and, the

:42:01. > :42:03.democrats, Trump didn't win, the Democrats lost, deliberately

:42:04. > :42:09.choosing a candidate that they knew had incredibly huge negative ratings

:42:10. > :42:12.and many people in America distrusted, but they thought she

:42:13. > :42:18.could beat Trump easily, let's put her up, and it was a disaster. They

:42:19. > :42:23.have to learn from that. Would you think that there is something

:42:24. > :42:26.similar going on as happened in Britain? Hillary Clinton was the

:42:27. > :42:32.representative par excellence of the elites, basically giving lectures to

:42:33. > :42:39.people about economics, in the same way that arguably the Remain people

:42:40. > :42:43.won the referendum, and that rhetoric has failed to connect?

:42:44. > :42:48.There was a huge arrogance, and it wasn't just economics. Most of her

:42:49. > :42:52.messages were right, but she was giving lectures, not just about

:42:53. > :42:58.economics but an identity politics. She made an arrogant assumption

:42:59. > :43:00.that, if you were black, Latino, a woman, she automatically deserved

:43:01. > :43:05.that support, irrespective of how she ran her campaign, irrespective

:43:06. > :43:09.of her own record in government. That kind of entitlement and

:43:10. > :43:13.arrogance is always going to lose, and I hope the Democrats remember

:43:14. > :43:18.that in four years' time. Trade deals. It all sounds great though,

:43:19. > :43:22.I'll go to America and make deal with Donald Trump, well, you can't

:43:23. > :43:26.make a trade deal with the United States until you are outside the EU,

:43:27. > :43:29.but the difficulty of trade deals is in the detail. Just because you can

:43:30. > :43:33.go and negotiate with other countries, which the Brexiteers

:43:34. > :43:37.making out is a great triumph, doesn't mean the deal you will end

:43:38. > :43:42.up with is any good, especially with countries like the States, which are

:43:43. > :43:46.in a powerful position. I think that's right, but the one advantage

:43:47. > :43:50.we would have negotiating a great deal outside the EU is that, when we

:43:51. > :43:54.are members of the EU, every trade deal has to be agreed by all 28

:43:55. > :44:00.nations, which is why it takes many years for the negotiations to

:44:01. > :44:05.finish. We hope that, if there is a bilateral trade deal between the UK

:44:06. > :44:08.and US, it will be much quicker, but obviously I would recommend that we

:44:09. > :44:13.don't sign anything unless it is of direct benefit to the whole UK.

:44:14. > :44:18.Again, it's about power. To take one example, I think I'm right in saying

:44:19. > :44:22.that the UK still won't import American beef that's been treated

:44:23. > :44:27.with hormones. -- the EU. Donald Trump comes along and says, hey, I

:44:28. > :44:32.want my beef exported to Britain and, if you don't do this, you're

:44:33. > :44:36.not getting that. They are in a more powerful position to do that with

:44:37. > :44:40.Britain that they would with the European Union. Absolutely, but here

:44:41. > :44:43.is the difference. If a British governance signed a trade deal that

:44:44. > :44:48.the people are not happy with, we can get rid of that government. If

:44:49. > :44:52.the EU signed a deal that we are not happy with, there is nothing we can

:44:53. > :44:57.do to get rid of that. But, because this is a power relationship, it

:44:58. > :45:01.doesn't matter, so the next element goes to Donald Trump and says,

:45:02. > :45:07.almost treated cows, and America say, get lost. It is a power

:45:08. > :45:12.relationship, but we are not going to be forced into signing it, and I

:45:13. > :45:16.think, looking back to last year when President Obama, of whom I am a

:45:17. > :45:20.huge time, he came over and he riled a lot of people by saying we would

:45:21. > :45:25.be at the back of the -- the back of the queue for trade deals. If

:45:26. > :45:27.Theresa May can for a good relationship with the Trump

:45:28. > :45:29.administration and we benefit from that, I don't see why anybody should

:45:30. > :45:30.complain. The First Minister has

:45:31. > :45:33.accused Scottish Labour of being "destructive" as the party

:45:34. > :45:36.calls for Holyrood not to support the government's budget

:45:37. > :45:38.in a debate this afternoon. Labour claim it's an austerity

:45:39. > :45:40.budget which cuts ?327 million where the Deputy Leader Alex Rowley

:45:41. > :45:55.is now speaking. THE SPEAKER: I call on he will

:45:56. > :46:00.ex-roly to move the motion. Up to 13 minutes. Thank you, in moving this

:46:01. > :46:05.motion today and bringing forward this debate we want to encourage a

:46:06. > :46:09.wider discussion in this Parliament and across the country to build a

:46:10. > :46:14.consensus about the kind of public services we want in Scotland and how

:46:15. > :46:18.they are to be paid for. Whilst we will make the case today for using

:46:19. > :46:21.the powers of this Parliament to invest in public services, we also

:46:22. > :46:27.make the case for using the resources we have in the most

:46:28. > :46:32.effective and efficient way to tackle the big challenges we face of

:46:33. > :46:37.deep-rooted povertiy and deprivation in our communities through a

:46:38. > :46:42.comprehensive anti-poverty strategy for Scotland and for a more direct

:46:43. > :46:46.Government action to grow our economy increasing the resources

:46:47. > :46:51.available for investment. So, in a time where too many of our public

:46:52. > :46:55.services are struggling to cope and some veer towards crisis, we say

:46:56. > :47:03.Government should increase the tax take by asking those who can pay a

:47:04. > :47:09.bit more, to do so. But alongside this, we also say we must be more

:47:10. > :47:13.ambition in driving our economy in increasing the tax take in the

:47:14. > :47:17.medium term by supporting more people into decent jobs. The budget

:47:18. > :47:21.has is stands does not and will not achieve these aims. Let me begin

:47:22. > :47:28.with local government. I want to make the point, if we are to succeed

:47:29. > :47:32.in tackling poverty, closing the attainment gap, developing high

:47:33. > :47:36.quality local services and growing the economy across Scotland, we node

:47:37. > :47:41.to do Government differently. The fact is that Scotland is one of the

:47:42. > :47:46.most centralised country in the Western World. The creation of the

:47:47. > :47:52.Scottish Parliament in 1999 did not lead to a continuing devolution of

:47:53. > :47:57.power closer to the people. Instead, we have seen politicians in Holyrood

:47:58. > :48:02.trying to control more and more of the power and decision making away

:48:03. > :48:07.from the local level. This centralist approach has led to a

:48:08. > :48:11.much weaker relationship between local and Central Government in

:48:12. > :48:18.Scotland and all too often, a lower quality of service has been

:48:19. > :48:22.delivered as a result. I wonder if the member would accept the

:48:23. > :48:27.relationship between central and local government was extremely poor

:48:28. > :48:32.under the last Labour/Liberal Democrat administration because of

:48:33. > :48:35.ring-fencing? It is a fact it is extremely broken down, the

:48:36. > :48:45.relationship between central and local government right now. This

:48:46. > :48:49.failure to build on that relationship has also resulted in

:48:50. > :48:54.the failure to bring together the key people and organisations needed

:48:55. > :48:59.to plan and drive our economy at the local, regional and national level.

:49:00. > :49:01.One size fits all central control is not best for Scotland.

:49:02. > :49:04.its Dean Lockhart, James Kelly from Scottish Labour, and Ross Greer

:49:05. > :49:05.Now let's speak to some MSPs at Holyrood.

:49:06. > :49:08.I'm joined by Ash Denham for the SNP, For the Conservatives

:49:09. > :49:11.its Dean Lockhart, James Kelly from Scottish Labour, and Ross Greer

:49:12. > :49:24.On the budget, Ross Greer, have the Greens given up? Are you not going

:49:25. > :49:27.to do a deal on the budget? We're style trying to negotiate with the

:49:28. > :49:30.Scottish Government. The negotiations are pretty difficult.

:49:31. > :49:34.We're coming from two different places on tax policy in particular.

:49:35. > :49:39.We're trying to come to a deal at this point. You won't do a deal

:49:40. > :49:42.unless they change their tax proposals, is that correct?

:49:43. > :49:47.Fundamentally what it's about. We can more likely come to an agreement

:49:48. > :49:52.on spending priorities. Tax is critical here. That's how we avoid

:49:53. > :49:56.making unnecessary cuts. Therefore, they're more likely to do a deal

:49:57. > :50:01.with the Liberal Democrats? They're not insisting they change their tax

:50:02. > :50:05.policies? The spending proposals the Liberal Democrats have proposed are

:50:06. > :50:10.theirs to deend if. I don't #125e thinkle Scottish Government will

:50:11. > :50:16.agree with that. An agreement with us would require a shift from the

:50:17. > :50:20.Government to a fairer and more progressive taxation system. James

:50:21. > :50:24.Kelly, why are you ruling out any agreement? Will you vote against the

:50:25. > :50:29.Scottish budget under any circumstances? The SNP have made is

:50:30. > :50:33.quite clear they're putting forward a budget which entails ?327 million

:50:34. > :50:38.of cuts to local councils. That means jobs will be lost, libraries

:50:39. > :50:43.could be closed and care packages under threat. That's completely

:50:44. > :50:48.unacceptable to us. As an alternative... What should they cut

:50:49. > :50:52.instead given much of their budget still comes from London? Are you

:50:53. > :50:56.saying they should ignore the Barnet settlement or what would you suggest

:50:57. > :51:00.cutting instead? The important thing about this budget is the Government

:51:01. > :51:08.have much more in terms of tax raising powers. It is completely

:51:09. > :51:12.unacceptable those on the top rate earning over ?150,000 aren't being

:51:13. > :51:19.asked to pay a bit more to protect local communities and support local

:51:20. > :51:22.councils. Dean Lockhart, are there any circumstances imaginable in

:51:23. > :51:26.which you would support the Scottish budget? We've said we don't want

:51:27. > :51:30.Scotland to be the highest tax part of the UK. That's because we really

:51:31. > :51:35.need to boss the economy in Scotland. Economic growth here is

:51:36. > :51:38.the third of rest of the UK. We're saying keep Scotland competitive

:51:39. > :51:42.with the rest of the UK in tax. Going forward, the Scottish budget

:51:43. > :51:46.will depend on growth in Scotland and the growth of tax revenues

:51:47. > :51:51.coming from the Scottish workforce. It is really important that our

:51:52. > :51:55.fundamental priority is increasing the economy. If we're the highest

:51:56. > :51:59.tax part of the UK that's not a budget we can support. Ash Denham,

:52:00. > :52:03.one imagines the Scottish Government, the SNP will be very

:52:04. > :52:07.reluctant to change their proposals in tax? So does that mean you're

:52:08. > :52:11.more likely to find some agreement with the Liberal Democrats than the

:52:12. > :52:16.Greens? What we've put forward is a budget for growth. A budget for

:52:17. > :52:20.investment into infrastruck fewer and a budget that protects local

:52:21. > :52:26.services and prioritises things which are important to local people.

:52:27. > :52:30.That's not what I asked you. In any budget, I'm not criticising you for

:52:31. > :52:34.making compromises. Any Government has to do that. It would be easier

:52:35. > :52:39.for you to compromise on spending, would it not, than to compromise on

:52:40. > :52:43.your tax proposals? The budget we've put forward is best on the manifesto

:52:44. > :52:47.commitments we went to the public with. There's strong support for the

:52:48. > :52:51.budget that we've put forward. Obviously, the Scottish Government

:52:52. > :52:54.is listening. We're listening to the Parliament and also listening to

:52:55. > :52:58.other stakeholders. Clearly, we will need to do a deal on this. So, I

:52:59. > :53:02.believe there are negotiations that are ongoing. At the moment, we don't

:53:03. > :53:06.know, watch this space. We don't think is this is a time to put up

:53:07. > :53:10.taxes across the board. Families are struggling at the moment. We've all

:53:11. > :53:16.the uncertainty coming at us because of the Tories seem determined to

:53:17. > :53:21.drag Scotland off a Brexit cliff edge. This is a time to protect

:53:22. > :53:28.families' budgets, investment in public services and keep the economy

:53:29. > :53:32.going. Talking of Brexit clef edges, Mike Russell seemed to be suggesting

:53:33. > :53:36.in Parliament, if I understood him correctly, he seemed to be

:53:37. > :53:41.suggesting the joint ministerial committee, this meeting of the

:53:42. > :53:47.devolved representatives of the devolved Governments, would have to

:53:48. > :53:54.unanimously accept triggering Article 50 before it could go ahead?

:53:55. > :53:58.Did he just make that up or is there any possible basis for saying that?

:53:59. > :54:02.No-one has ever understood the joint ministerial committee is something

:54:03. > :54:07.that has to come to unanimous decisions. That's no what it does?

:54:08. > :54:11.What we're saying is whilst we welcome the decision made in the

:54:12. > :54:18.Supreme Court ruling yesterday that the Sewell convention is not a legal

:54:19. > :54:21.obligation, we think it is clearly a democratic obligation and Scotland's

:54:22. > :54:25.voice must be heard. And if it isn't, it will be a defeat for

:54:26. > :54:31.democracy. What we are saying is Scotland must be consulted.

:54:32. > :54:36.Consultation must be consultation. Consultation is one thing, saying

:54:37. > :54:40.that the joint ministerial committee has to approve the triggering of

:54:41. > :54:44.Article 50 is completely different from what you've just said? The SNP

:54:45. > :54:48.will put forward a number of amendments to the Act of

:54:49. > :54:55.Parliament... That's a different issue. One of those will be about

:54:56. > :55:03.the JMC. Dean Lockhart, do you see this as being... Well, Ash Denham,

:55:04. > :55:09.she said this will be one of the amendments the SNP put forward to

:55:10. > :55:15.the bill? The SNP are free to put forward amendments in terms of the

:55:16. > :55:21.legislation put for for the EU. The Supreme Court judgment is clear this

:55:22. > :55:27.is a reserve matter. The UK is an EU member state. It is the UK who will

:55:28. > :55:32.decide the leaving, the terms upon which we leave the EU the judgment

:55:33. > :55:37.was very clear. The SNP are using Brexit as a political football to

:55:38. > :55:41.agitate for another referendum which will create more uncertainty. To be

:55:42. > :55:46.fair to Ash Denham, she didn't mention another referendum. James

:55:47. > :55:54.Kelly, I presume you agree with every word James Lockhart said,

:55:55. > :55:59.would you? Sorry, Dean Lockhart. It is really regrettable we lost the

:56:00. > :56:08.referendum. I campaigned strongly for remain. Brexit is a disaster.

:56:09. > :56:15.The join ministerial committee would have to ewe none mousily approve

:56:16. > :56:19.triggering Article 50? He needs to back up what he's saying with facts

:56:20. > :56:25.and analysis to see if there's any accuracy. In one sentence, do you

:56:26. > :56:29.like the idea or is it pure bluster? Decisions which have a huge impact

:56:30. > :56:32.on the powers of the devolved Parliaments in Scotland, Wales and

:56:33. > :56:37.Northern Ireland, should be issues we come to a collective agreement

:56:38. > :56:41.on. The Government in Westminster isn't interested in do EU doing

:56:42. > :56:50.that. They want to override us We'll have to leave it there.

:56:51. > :56:56.This join ministerial committee, it's different if Ash Denham's

:56:57. > :57:00.saying they can put that as an amendment to the bill and if

:57:01. > :57:05.Parliament approved it, the joint ministerial committee would have to?

:57:06. > :57:09.I've been in meetings of the joint ministerial committee, it's not

:57:10. > :57:16.nearly as exiting as the Brexit Minister in Holyrood makes it sound.

:57:17. > :57:21.If they pass the amendment, the meetings could get very exciting

:57:22. > :57:24.indeed. Indeed. The SNPs have promised they'll put forward auto#50

:57:25. > :57:28.amendments to the Government's bill even before they've seen a single

:57:29. > :57:34.line of what the bill's going to say. They'll put forward 50

:57:35. > :57:38.amendments which seems to me a peculiar round number. Ash said

:57:39. > :57:44.Scotland's voice needs to be heard on this. People have been saying

:57:45. > :57:49.knowingly over the past 24 hours, it depends on how they produce this

:57:50. > :57:54.bill how many amendments are put forward which has left me and others

:57:55. > :57:59.thinking, sorry, why? One theory is the Government will put forward a

:58:00. > :58:07.one-liner bill. Why stop people putting amendments? It doesn't stop

:58:08. > :58:11.them. The first thing to vote on is a programme motion discussings how

:58:12. > :58:16.long the arm will discuss this in committee stage. Does that mean a

:58:17. > :58:20.shorter time if one line? Maybe two days to pull a figure out of the

:58:21. > :58:25.air. You then put in 50 amendments and they get talked out? No, not all

:58:26. > :58:30.of the amendments will be called by the Deputy Speaker. He has to chose

:58:31. > :58:34.which amendments he will select to be debated. Not everything that

:58:35. > :58:39.tabled. The ones he likes you but with an eye to the fact as you've

:58:40. > :58:46.suggested, there might only be two days? Yes. And he will try to get as

:58:47. > :58:50.broad a subject matter as possible. Maybe 20 amend thes on the same

:58:51. > :58:52.subject, he'll pick one of them. Thank you. That's cleared things up

:58:53. > :58:54.a bit. Thank you. Join us for First Minister's

:58:55. > :58:56.Questions tomorrow Robert Burns never travelled

:58:57. > :59:16.to America. In America, Burns was

:59:17. > :59:21.the 19th century Elvis. Many, from Lincoln to Dylan,

:59:22. > :59:26.have identified with his works.