:00:18. > :00:20.On Politics Scotland this afternoon:
:00:20. > :00:22.Two-and-a-half years after the Lockerbie bomber was released from
:00:22. > :00:27.prison, the justice secretary is still answering questions about
:00:27. > :00:31.that decision. A new book alleges Abdelbasset al-Megrahi was
:00:31. > :00:34.pressured into dropping his appeal. Kenny MacAskill is due to make a
:00:34. > :00:37.statement to MSPs. And the latest attempt to keep
:00:37. > :00:43.Scotland in the union but boost Holyrood's powers. We debate what
:00:43. > :00:46.is meant by Devo Plus and Devo Max and does it devolution matter?
:00:46. > :00:53.Here at Westminster, MPs are worried about high fuel price
:00:53. > :00:56.threats to the Olympics. Good afternoon. The justice
:00:56. > :00:59.secretary, Kenny MacAskill, is due to give a statement to MSPs in a
:00:59. > :01:03.few minutes on the release of the Lockerbie bomber, up Abdelbasset
:01:03. > :01:05.al-Megrahi. The Libyan was freed from Greenock prison on
:01:05. > :01:10.compassionate grounds in 2009 following a diagnosis of terminal
:01:10. > :01:13.cancer but before that he dropped his appeal against conviction. A
:01:13. > :01:16.new book published earlier this week claims Al-Megrahi was
:01:17. > :01:20.pressured into doing that. We will hear from Kenny MacAskill shortly
:01:20. > :01:30.but first I am joined from our Brighton studio by John Ashton, the
:01:30. > :01:31.
:01:31. > :01:35.offer of "Megrahi: You Are My Jury". The idea did his fair to say that
:01:35. > :01:42.the reason this statement is being given is because your book has been
:01:42. > :01:46.published. What answers you think he needs to get to MSPs?
:01:46. > :01:52.It is very clear that he should not response in that statement to
:01:52. > :02:00.allegations which have not been made. A deal, according to Mr
:02:00. > :02:06.Megrahi, was not done. He said that on 10th August 2009 he had a
:02:07. > :02:11.conversation with the Libyan minister, Abdulati al-Obedi, but
:02:11. > :02:17.claims that a party of Libyans had met with can he MacAskill and that
:02:17. > :02:21.he had been taken aside and told that it would be easier for him to
:02:21. > :02:27.grounds compassionate release if the appeal was dropped. There was
:02:27. > :02:30.no demand. Let us be clear about that. What Mr MacAskill should be
:02:30. > :02:40.doing today it is confirming or denying whether that conversation
:02:40. > :02:40.
:02:40. > :02:45.took place. The allegation is not that there was a deal. So your book
:02:45. > :02:49.reports that can he MacAskill took a Libyan official site in a meeting
:02:49. > :02:53.and told him it would be easier to release Abdelbasset al-Megrahi if
:02:53. > :03:01.he dropped his appeal against conviction. That is the central
:03:01. > :03:08.allegation? Yes.
:03:08. > :03:13.I am joined in the studio by Our Home Affairs Correspondent, Reevel
:03:13. > :03:16.Alderson. Can he MacAskill has been asked dozens of times about this
:03:16. > :03:22.since 2009. How likely is it that we will get a different version of
:03:22. > :03:26.events from him today? I think it is highly unlikely
:03:26. > :03:32.because can he MacAskill has been very robust on this question and
:03:32. > :03:37.the Government's, and turn himself, issued a categorical denial that
:03:37. > :03:43.anything untoward had happened. John Ashton is quite right that no
:03:44. > :03:53.allegation has been made of a deal Purcell a. It is obviously a bit er
:03:54. > :03:56.
:03:56. > :04:03.of a 0 and a wink. -- a deal per se. The interesting thing about this is
:04:03. > :04:07.that it is one of the end E- commerce about the Lockerbie story.
:04:07. > :04:12.Abdelbasset al-Megrahi asked for compassionate release because he
:04:12. > :04:19.had inoperable cancer. While that process was ongoing we had the
:04:19. > :04:23.sideshow of the prisoner transfer release situation. Can he MacAskill,
:04:23. > :04:30.whilst considering the compassionate release request, went
:04:30. > :04:32.to see Al Megrahi in prison and that meeting was attended by a
:04:33. > :04:39.senior Scottish Government official. We do not know what was said in
:04:39. > :04:42.that meeting. At some point they also met Libyan officials. In the
:04:42. > :04:46.meantime if the appeal was abandoned by Abdelbasset al-Megrahi
:04:46. > :04:51.and he was allowed to go home to Tripoli within days of that
:04:52. > :04:55.decision. If we could have some clarity on that it would be very
:04:55. > :04:59.good. As I understand it there was due
:04:59. > :05:06.process. There was a release on compassionate grounds because of
:05:06. > :05:11.the inoperable cancer and then this is it -- this prisoner transfer
:05:11. > :05:15.agreement. He was not the only person appealing in this case. The
:05:15. > :05:23.Crown Office was also appealing. It could never have gone ahead, could
:05:23. > :05:28.As I understand it, the Crown appeal remains on the table. The
:05:28. > :05:33.Crown was appealing against certain rulings and what they regarded as
:05:33. > :05:38.the leniency of the sentence. Those appeals were put on a back burner
:05:38. > :05:45.while a substantial it appeal from the Criminal Cases Review
:05:45. > :05:51.Commission was being dealt with. This is, I think, something that is
:05:51. > :05:57.mired in confusion and obfuscation. I do not think there will be much
:05:57. > :06:00.elucidation here today. How damaging to you think this will
:06:00. > :06:07.be for can he MacAskill personally and the SNP government?
:06:07. > :06:11.Yes, it will be damaging. It is damaging because it keeps on going.
:06:11. > :06:15.I spoke to can he MacAskill in the summer of 2009 and he knew then he
:06:15. > :06:18.would spend the whole summer dealing with this. I do not think
:06:18. > :06:21.he thought that two and a half years later he would still have to
:06:21. > :06:26.make statements to Parliament about the issue of Abdelbasset al-Megrahi
:06:26. > :06:31.as Lockerbie. The more this goes on the more people will question what
:06:31. > :06:35.happened. There is a murkiness about this. We do not know who said
:06:35. > :06:40.what to home in various meetings. I do not know if you will ever get to
:06:40. > :06:45.the bottom on it. In terms of can he MacAskill's
:06:45. > :06:51.conduct in this, he has always been very consistent in saying he did
:06:51. > :06:55.things by the rule book. If to give him credit that is the
:06:55. > :06:59.case. He will be straight and bullish and he will deny this. He
:06:59. > :07:05.will say it is third-hand hearsay and third hands knowledge and he
:07:05. > :07:09.did everything by the book. To give him credit, that is what he has
:07:09. > :07:15.done. Even with that, it is hard for him to shrug off the impression
:07:15. > :07:20.that things were not quite as they seem behind the scenes. I do not
:07:20. > :07:24.know if you will ever do that. Reevel Alderson, there is also this
:07:24. > :07:28.outstanding issue of whether there should be an inquiry into the
:07:28. > :07:35.conviction and trial. Will be touch on that today?
:07:35. > :07:39.I cannot imagine we would do. This is being looked into by the Justice
:07:39. > :07:44.Committee. It centres on the release of the Eid papers and
:07:44. > :07:47.statement of reasons for and the Scottish Criminal Cases Review
:07:47. > :07:52.Commission. The Scottish government says it is minded to publish these
:07:52. > :07:56.documents if it can get round the variously galaxies. Whether they
:07:57. > :08:05.will be published remains to be seen. I do not think it will be
:08:05. > :08:07.dealt with today. Thank you. We are expecting to here
:08:07. > :08:12.from the Cabinet Secretary for Justice, can he MacAskill. Let us
:08:12. > :08:15.go now to the chamber in Holyrood. The Cabinet Secretary for Justice,
:08:15. > :08:24.Kenny MacAskill, is on his feet and has just started his statement in
:08:24. > :08:27.the chamber. Let us cross live now to hear what he has to say.
:08:27. > :08:33.I have been asked by the opposition to make a statement to Parliament
:08:33. > :08:38.on this matter once again and am willing to do so. Both myself and
:08:38. > :08:42.this government have always sought to be as open and transparent as we
:08:42. > :08:48.can be in all matters relating to Lockerbie. The need for this
:08:48. > :08:58.statement relates to claims and mate in a book written by a former
:08:58. > :09:00.
:09:00. > :09:06.researcher with Abdelbasset al- Megrahi's lead a team -- legal team.
:09:06. > :09:10.We have published as much as we can it, except in that refused by other
:09:10. > :09:16.governments. My meeting with Libyan representatives is one of them.
:09:16. > :09:23.These minutes are not here say but an accurate record made at the time.
:09:24. > :09:29.This minute has been in the public domain as in September 2009. It is
:09:29. > :09:34.quite Clear and refutes the assertions made. These records are
:09:34. > :09:39.made by impartial civil servants to ensure that there is a proper
:09:39. > :09:45.historic record of important discussions. In addition to the
:09:45. > :09:50.minute kept, Presiding Officer, let me be quite clear. Scottish
:09:50. > :09:56.government officials were at present throughout my meeting with
:09:56. > :09:59.it for the Libyans. At no time did I will any other member of the
:09:59. > :10:03.Scottish Government's suggest to Abdulati al-Obedi four or anyone
:10:03. > :10:09.else connected with the lobbying governments that abandoning his
:10:09. > :10:14.appeal against conviction would in any way it aid or has it -- Ede
:10:14. > :10:19.affect his application for compassionate release. Let us
:10:19. > :10:23.remember what the two different processes were. One process was an
:10:23. > :10:32.application under the prisoner transfer agreements made by the
:10:32. > :10:37.Gadaffi regime. This requested an end to any appeal proceedings
:10:37. > :10:41.before a transfer could happen. The second process was an application
:10:41. > :10:48.for compassionate release made by Abdelbasset al-Megrahi himself, to
:10:48. > :10:51.which no such condition applied. We are vigorously opposed the prisoner
:10:51. > :10:58.transfer agreements negotiated by the then the UK Government with the
:10:58. > :11:02.Gadaffi regime, not least because it represented interference in the
:11:02. > :11:11.Scottish legal process. We wrote to the UK Government no fewer than
:11:11. > :11:15.eight times between June 2007 and September 2008, setting out our
:11:15. > :11:21.position. I considered but rejected the application for prisoner
:11:21. > :11:27.transfer made in respect of them. I also granted a request for a
:11:27. > :11:32.compassionate release submitted by him as he -- as I believe that it
:11:32. > :11:38.hit to the laws and values we hold in Scotland. I did so on the basis
:11:38. > :11:41.of evidence from the Parole vote, prison governor and the director of
:11:41. > :11:45.health and care in the Scottish Prison Service. The Scottish
:11:45. > :11:51.government had no interest whatsoever in the appeal being
:11:51. > :11:56.abandoned. I had no involvement in the decision to drop his appeal
:11:57. > :12:01.against conviction. That was entirely a matter for him and his
:12:01. > :12:08.legal team. However, Presiding Officer, one thing that is clear
:12:08. > :12:14.from this new book, as detailed on page 352, is that Abdelbasset al-
:12:15. > :12:19.Megrahi has signed a provisional undertaking to abandon his appeal
:12:19. > :12:26.on March 21st, 2009. It is clear, therefore, he was considering
:12:26. > :12:29.dropping his appeal several months before either of the two
:12:29. > :12:34.applications were put before me. At the time Mr Al-Megrahi had no way
:12:34. > :12:42.of knowing what my decision would be, either Ornette compassionate
:12:42. > :12:50.release. On the PTA? However, he did know that if a prisoner
:12:50. > :12:53.transfer agreements would be refused if there were ongoing legal
:12:53. > :13:00.proceedings. John Ashton himself has accepted on BBC radio yesterday
:13:00. > :13:05.that the book is here say. He says off -- this government has said
:13:05. > :13:10.consistently that we want to be as open and transparent as we can be
:13:10. > :13:13.on all aspects surrounding this case. That is why we brought
:13:14. > :13:19.forward to the Criminal Cases punishments and review bail to
:13:19. > :13:23.await publication of the statement of reasons. An assertion by the
:13:23. > :13:27.author is that we, the Scottish government, do not want the
:13:27. > :13:32.statement of reasons published. Presiding Officer, nothing could be
:13:33. > :13:37.further from the truth. This legislation, introduced by this
:13:37. > :13:42.Scottish Government, will enable the Scottish Criminal Cases Review
:13:42. > :13:48.Commission to decide whether it is appropriate to disclose information
:13:48. > :13:53.encases they have investigated, where a subsequent appeal has been
:13:53. > :13:58.abandoned. The legislation helps to leave the commission as a decision-
:13:58. > :14:03.maker as to whether they publish a report on this case. Under the
:14:03. > :14:07.legislation, the Commission must decide whether in the whole
:14:07. > :14:11.circumstances it is appropriate to disclose their statement of reasons.
:14:11. > :14:16.There will be a range a factor as the commission will want to
:14:16. > :14:19.consider when deciding whether it is appropriate to disclose
:14:20. > :14:24.information. One key factor is likely to be how much of a
:14:24. > :14:28.statement of reasons is already in the public domain. With the
:14:29. > :14:33.publication of the book and television documentaries containing
:14:33. > :14:38.what, apparently, may well be significant material from the
:14:38. > :14:42.statement of reasons, this could be an important factor which the
:14:42. > :14:49.Commission may want to consider when they decide whether it is
:14:49. > :14:53.appropriate to disclose information they hold. As members know, we are
:14:53. > :14:59.limited within the powers of this Parliament as to how far our
:14:59. > :15:04.legislation can go in freeing up the commission to disclose
:15:04. > :15:11.information. Data protection, which is a reserved to matter, is a key
:15:11. > :15:15.obstacle to disclosure. I first spoke with Kenneth Clarke back in
:15:15. > :15:21.September 2010 on this issue. Since our bill was introduced by have
:15:21. > :15:26.already written to him on three occasions on this issue. We are now
:15:26. > :15:34.faced with publication of material that is apparently, from the
:15:34. > :15:37.statement of reasons. This means that the case, Europe correction As
:15:37. > :15:40.many as are of the opinion say "Aye." for an exception to data
:15:40. > :15:48.protection rules is now overwhelming.
:15:48. > :15:52.That is now today I have written a Ghent to Kenneth Clarke urging that
:15:52. > :15:57.the Government to make a decision for an exception to the inmates to
:15:58. > :16:03.be normal statutory data protection rules for this unique case. This
:16:03. > :16:07.will help ensure that Ryder Public Interest cant be serviced on the
:16:07. > :16:12.roads are publishing the statement of reasons. Let no one be in any
:16:12. > :16:22.doubt, we want to the statement of reasons published and are doing all
:16:22. > :16:27.
:16:27. > :16:34.that we can cope with in the powers They recognise that some have
:16:34. > :16:37.concerns regarding the wider issues relating to the atrocity. The wide
:16:37. > :16:45.ranging and international nature of the issues involved means every
:16:45. > :16:52.likelihood of issues arrive his team -- of the issues arising that
:16:52. > :16:56.are not devolved. We remain ready to co-operate on an inquiry.
:16:56. > :17:05.Members will want to know whether there is a mechanism for an appeal
:17:05. > :17:10.still to be heard, even posthumously. I can't from -- I
:17:10. > :17:15.come from a to the danger that there is. It would involve an
:17:15. > :17:20.application be made, the commission deciding to make a reference and
:17:20. > :17:26.for the High Court to accept such a reference. These are not matters
:17:26. > :17:32.for me as justice secretary to decide upon. These are decisions
:17:33. > :17:39.for others to make, but I think it is important that we as a
:17:39. > :17:44.Parliament are aware of the position. As I've other sort of the
:17:45. > :17:53.abandonment law continuation of Mr Al Megrahi's appeal, it is not for
:17:53. > :17:59.me to seek or oppose a potential appeal, posture must or otherwise.
:17:59. > :18:04.That is a matter for others. I have every confidence in the Scottish
:18:04. > :18:09.criminal justice system were there to be another appeal. That is a
:18:09. > :18:14.matter I would be entirely comfortable with. We what the
:18:14. > :18:17.commission's report to be in the public domain to help ensure public
:18:17. > :18:22.confidence is retained in our justice system. This Government is
:18:22. > :18:26.doing all we can to bring disclosure of the statement of
:18:27. > :18:33.reasons and I urge all members to support these efforts by supporting
:18:33. > :18:43.our rebel and supporting our efforts to get the UK Government to
:18:43. > :18:46.
:18:46. > :18:55.make an exception up to data protection rules. The author John
:18:55. > :19:00.Ashton is in our Brighton studio. What is your reaction? Firstly, he
:19:00. > :19:05.as a shared a flat denial, which is a relief. Let we have at some sort
:19:05. > :19:12.of clarity. Now we have the word of Abdulati al-Obedi against his. We
:19:12. > :19:22.can move on to the issue of the withholding of many items of
:19:22. > :19:28.important evidence abide Mr MacAskill's offers. The issues of
:19:28. > :19:38.the mash renaissance around the release are aside sure. -- Masha
:19:38. > :19:39.
:19:39. > :19:44.nations. The second point is the minutes. A private and sensitive
:19:44. > :19:48.conversation would not be merited. He claims that I made at the motion
:19:49. > :19:54.on Tuesday about the book being here say. I made no such admission.
:19:54. > :20:04.The book clearly states that that conversation was hearsay. You talk
:20:04. > :20:09.
:20:09. > :20:14.about a private conversation been minuted., or not be minuted. But Mr
:20:14. > :20:19.MacAskill says he never suggested that to any minister. Yes, he has
:20:19. > :20:24.made a flat denial. Now we have to look at their up question of motive.
:20:24. > :20:31.Who would have the motor of there? Would it Abdulati al-Obedi want to
:20:31. > :20:41.mislead Al Megrahi? Possibly. Would it Mr MacAskill want to see that?
:20:41. > :20:43.
:20:43. > :20:50.Possibly. This case is going to be a huge scandal for Mr miss Castle -
:20:50. > :20:54.- am Kenny MacAskill's Crown Office. He is not in charge of their crime
:20:55. > :20:59.justice system. Do you still have outstanding questions as a result
:20:59. > :21:03.of this statement? The outstanding questions relate to their
:21:03. > :21:08.withholding of evidence by the Crown Office. He has ever been
:21:08. > :21:16.called to account on that and he should be. Unless he distances
:21:16. > :21:19.himself from the Crown Office, the scandal will come back. You did not
:21:19. > :21:29.expect to find out much you on that statement. Were there any of
:21:29. > :21:30.
:21:30. > :21:38.revelations? There were. You asked me if he would be talking about the
:21:38. > :21:44.statement from the criminal justice a review commission and he did.
:21:44. > :21:50.Kenny MacAskill was quite forthright in his denial. What was
:21:50. > :21:57.particularly interesting was on this issue of the statement from
:21:57. > :22:02.the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission, which is 800 pages long,
:22:02. > :22:07.John Ashton has quite clearly stated that he has seemed that
:22:07. > :22:11.statement of reasons and has it used that as some of the research
:22:11. > :22:16.material for his book. The fact that the Scottish government
:22:16. > :22:21.continues to pursue avenues to get that published is welcomed. The
:22:21. > :22:25.fact that he has written to Kenneth Clarke to try to unblock the
:22:25. > :22:29.business of data protection is welcome. But the most interesting
:22:29. > :22:36.thing he said was at the end of the statement where he said that if
:22:36. > :22:43.there is still an avenue open legally for the appeal which Al
:22:43. > :22:50.Megrahi abandoned, if it were sent back to the High Court and the High
:22:50. > :23:00.Court accept said, and I am interested in that statement, then
:23:00. > :23:03.
:23:03. > :23:06.and we could have the appeal over again.
:23:06. > :23:16.Let's cross back to the chamber were Kenny MacAskill is facing
:23:16. > :23:17.
:23:17. > :23:22.questions on his statement. remarkable period of survival for
:23:22. > :23:25.somebody who apparently all they have 90 days to live. A key
:23:25. > :23:35.allegation made in this book is that there was some kind of deal
:23:35. > :23:35.
:23:35. > :23:43.made between the Libyan government and the Scottish government. The
:23:43. > :23:53.allegation made of this book is at the same allegation made by
:23:53. > :24:00.Christine Grahame, MSP, who is said she had been told the same thing.
:24:00. > :24:06.One allegation corroborates of the other. You may be contemptuous, but
:24:06. > :24:16.she may have something to see later. Is that Mr MacAskill's position
:24:16. > :24:16.
:24:16. > :24:20.that both of them are in error? Furthermore, the suspicion that Mr
:24:20. > :24:25.MacAskill took an unduly favourable view of the medical evidence to
:24:26. > :24:33.facilitate a deal would have been allayed if all the medical reports
:24:33. > :24:43.on which it their assessment was made where released. The Scottish
:24:43. > :24:44.
:24:44. > :24:48.government has constant -- consistently fielded to do so.
:24:48. > :24:51.Questions surrounding the integrity of this decision-making process now
:24:52. > :25:00.demand that this evidence is released and made available for
:25:00. > :25:05.public scrutiny. There are two aspect here. Was there any other
:25:05. > :25:10.factor involved in the release of Mr Al Megrahi other than my
:25:11. > :25:16.decision on the criteria of compassionate release. No, there
:25:16. > :25:26.was not. We did not consider diplomatic or economic matters.
:25:26. > :25:27.
:25:27. > :25:34.Despite the criticism, when the Labour government was openly, I
:25:34. > :25:43.think and criticising me. We refused suggestions from
:25:43. > :25:47.Conservative members as well. A Conservative that -- a Conservative
:25:47. > :25:57.member want to be suggesting that Al Megrahi should be used as a
:25:57. > :25:59.
:25:59. > :26:05.bargaining chip in negotiations. I have refused that. A former Tory
:26:05. > :26:09.minister wrote to me saying that speed is of their essence am
:26:09. > :26:15.returning to Al Megrahi back to Libya for reasons of business
:26:15. > :26:23.interests. I made it clear that we would not proper economic,
:26:23. > :26:33.political or diplomatic matters. We made it subject to the laws of the
:26:33. > :26:35.
:26:35. > :26:40.people of Scotland. Let me deal with the second question dealing
:26:40. > :26:44.with medical reports. The only medical report which I saw and on
:26:44. > :26:50.which I made my decision was that of Dr Fraser. That matter has been
:26:50. > :26:56.made available and doubtless you will have read it. It is already in
:26:56. > :27:01.the public domain and has been since September 2009. Matters of
:27:01. > :27:10.medical records are subject to common law confidentiality and we
:27:10. > :27:17.abide by that as we are bound by other legislation. I should first
:27:17. > :27:27.declare that I am a member of the just as for Al Megrahi campaign. I
:27:27. > :27:27.
:27:27. > :27:33.want to use his exact words. With a reference to prisoner transfer, he
:27:33. > :27:43.says, I decided I must choose the latter. I signed a provisional
:27:43. > :27:53.undertaking to abandon the appeal. That predates any memos and
:27:53. > :27:54.
:27:54. > :27:59.anything said in hear say. Do you have a question? We should have a
:27:59. > :28:03.full inquiry into all aspects of the Lockerbie atrocity. Not only
:28:03. > :28:12.for the sake of Abdel Basset Ali al-Megrahi, but for the people of
:28:12. > :28:22.Lockerbie and the victims' family. I would like to ask a supplementary.
:28:22. > :28:25.No, you cannot. I stand by the decision of the Scottish court. It
:28:25. > :28:31.is for others to decide if they wish to seek to pursue matters
:28:31. > :28:35.through an appeal. Or indeed whether there is a request for a
:28:35. > :28:42.further enquiry. We have made it quite clear as a government that
:28:42. > :28:47.the restrictions on our jurisdiction mean that any appeal
:28:47. > :28:51.would be limited, it would be subject to matters of reserved
:28:51. > :28:57.competence. We have said that we will happily co-operate with any
:28:57. > :29:01.enquiry, but it would be for others to pursue that. It comes back to
:29:01. > :29:06.the point which I made quite clear in my statement, it is not for me,
:29:06. > :29:12.it never was for be, to decide how proceedings are carried out or not.
:29:12. > :29:19.I simply abide by the loss of Scotland. The justice secretary
:29:19. > :29:26.repeating that language. The release of Abdel Basset Ali Al
:29:26. > :29:31.Megrahi was done by the rule book as far as he was concerned.
:29:31. > :29:36.Talk to me about the politics of this statement. What do you make of
:29:36. > :29:41.the strategy Kenny MacAskill has deployed? I was very impressed.
:29:41. > :29:45.Going into this statement, Mr MacAskill was on the defensive me.
:29:45. > :29:50.Allegations have been made, there has been talk of here saying. He
:29:50. > :29:56.came out fighting. His opening remarks were very strong indeed.
:29:56. > :30:00.These claims are long, he said. At no time did I or anybody else in
:30:00. > :30:06.the Scottish government make that suggestion to anybody in the Libyan
:30:06. > :30:11.government. That was his opening gambit. Then what impressed me was
:30:11. > :30:20.that he went on to Caesar the agenda on this. He has got his eyes
:30:20. > :30:23.on tomorrow's newspapers. What he was trying to do was a knock down
:30:23. > :30:28.all the rumours and gossip that have been going on for the last few
:30:28. > :30:33.days and set the agenda. He did that with that last statement where
:30:33. > :30:38.he said that if there is room and grounds for a further appeal,
:30:38. > :30:43.whether posthumously or not, that may be able to go ahead. That is
:30:43. > :30:48.where this story is now going. Is there going to be a new appeal?
:30:48. > :30:52.Open the court case up again? That is where Kenny MacAskill wants to
:30:52. > :31:02.take it. Away from any suggestions that he did anything wrong in the
:31:02. > :31:05.
:31:05. > :31:10.He also was quite clear that he was happy to see this report by the
:31:11. > :31:19.Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission published. He said he
:31:20. > :31:20.was being thwarted by eight the data protection laws. Is that a
:31:20. > :31:27.direct criticism of the UK Government?
:31:27. > :31:31.Yes, and it fits into his whole assault on this issue. He is saying
:31:31. > :31:35.that he is doing this by Scottish law and look at what people in
:31:35. > :31:40.Westminster are trying to do. He says they are trying to make deals
:31:40. > :31:45.and influence things. He says again that the Westminster government are
:31:45. > :31:48.putting barriers in the way of getting this report out. It is a
:31:48. > :31:52.good nationalist tactic. He is saying that the Westminster
:31:52. > :31:56.government are stopping him doing this.
:31:56. > :32:02.How effective are the opposition being on this?
:32:02. > :32:07.They are being quite so effective. David McLetchie there was using his
:32:07. > :32:11.experience to try and pick holes and all of this. The opposition are
:32:11. > :32:17.in a difficult place. Do they follow what is hearsay or do they
:32:18. > :32:23.try to push it on to other areas? Thank you. We will have more from
:32:23. > :32:29.you later on. Later on, are the health reforms south of the border
:32:29. > :32:36.just what the doctor ordered? There was no agreement at pm queues.
:32:36. > :32:39.Let me tell them, their support for the health bill is are digging in a
:32:39. > :32:45.hall. All about process, all about
:32:45. > :32:50.politics, never about the substance. Mr Speaker, we all know it is a
:32:50. > :32:57.late Pierre so perhaps just this once I can answer the question. Hit
:32:57. > :33:02.we know what he is against, maybe he could tell us what he is fought?
:33:02. > :33:09.Now there is a new word to add to your political dictionary, Devo Max
:33:09. > :33:17.-- Devo Plus. Advocates of the plan say it presents a credible
:33:17. > :33:22.alternative to independence. I am totally signed up to this
:33:22. > :33:25.personally and it is what I believe we lack as an accountable
:33:25. > :33:30.parliament. Until we have this power, we are not accountable to
:33:30. > :33:34.the people that collectors. The uncertainty has been caused by
:33:34. > :33:39.the nationalists who want to separate Scotland from the rest of
:33:39. > :33:44.the UK. I want to see our Parliament stronger in the UK and I
:33:44. > :33:48.want to work with other parties and win nationalist if they join us. I
:33:48. > :33:52.want to see if we can achieve a settled and really strong future
:33:52. > :33:57.for Scotland and a stronger Parliament.
:33:57. > :34:02.It has to be pop -- properly formulated and to demonstrate that
:34:02. > :34:08.support. I totally welcome that. I have been saying for some time that
:34:08. > :34:13.I know where I stand. I am for independence. I will put forward to
:34:13. > :34:17.that view of the future. That is what the SNP will do. It is
:34:17. > :34:24.legitimate for other people to do the same thing.
:34:24. > :34:30.Devo Plus is not Devo Max, even if they do sound similar. Devo Max is
:34:30. > :34:34.a Coalition of non-political groups took encourage the Scottish people
:34:34. > :34:39.to take responsibility for everything except for foreign
:34:39. > :34:49.affairs and defence. I am joined by Jeremy Purvis in our Selkirk studio
:34:49. > :34:49.
:34:49. > :34:53.who is leading the Devo Plus campaign. I you backing Devo Max?
:34:53. > :34:58.Certainly not. Of our campaign has been very clear. We are far opening
:34:58. > :35:04.out a debate on all things that may be part of how Scotland is governed
:35:04. > :35:07.in the future. We are not in favour of one option or another. Voluntary
:35:07. > :35:14.organisations will have a lot of different views about the future of
:35:14. > :35:21.our country. EU have a proposal, then?
:35:21. > :35:24.We and not in the business of putting out a proposal. We are
:35:24. > :35:30.looking from a different perspective, from how these
:35:30. > :35:37.proposals impact on people's lives. I welcome at the announcement of a
:35:37. > :35:42.campaign for Devo Plus. That brings another dimension into play. We
:35:42. > :35:47.have questions and we are very glad that the Devo Plus campaign has
:35:47. > :35:50.taken place. We think there will be much more before this debate is
:35:50. > :35:56.mature. You do not have a repair -- a
:35:56. > :36:03.proposal, Martin Sime. Jeremy Purvis, you do have a proposal.
:36:03. > :36:13.What you mean by Devo Plus? You are correct. It can be complex.
:36:13. > :36:15.
:36:15. > :36:18.Devo Plus is a simple compared -- it is eight simple issue. It means
:36:18. > :36:26.that Scotland will be responsible for the money it raises an not
:36:26. > :36:30.reliant on hands out -- on hand out from Westminster. It aims to make
:36:30. > :36:34.Scotland's and its government more accountable to the people of
:36:34. > :36:38.Scotland. I think it will be a change for the better. I think it
:36:38. > :36:43.also proposes a long-term relationship between Scotland and
:36:43. > :36:48.the rest of the UK, which will be the benefit of people in Scotland
:36:48. > :36:53.as well. It is simple. The Scottish Parliament should raise the money
:36:53. > :36:58.it spends. Does that include issues like
:36:58. > :37:04.welfare payments and benefits? One of the proposals we are looking
:37:04. > :37:09.at his how you can devolve further, effectively, the welfare spend. We
:37:10. > :37:15.are quite clear that pensions and employment benefits, the elements
:37:15. > :37:18.that are important to keeping a United Kingdom, will remain the
:37:18. > :37:23.same. A worker in the north of Scotland and the South of England
:37:23. > :37:29.to move between companies should note that employment benefits and
:37:29. > :37:38.pension entitlements can be kept. That is one of the strains of the
:37:38. > :37:41.United Kingdom. The Scottish Parliament should move away from --
:37:42. > :37:48.away from grants from Westminster and concentrate on more powers they
:37:48. > :37:52.it have. We also want to move taxes such as corporation tax back to
:37:52. > :37:56.Scotland. We want to strengthen the Scottish Parliament but keepers in
:37:56. > :38:00.the UK. Do you believe everything is OK
:38:00. > :38:05.with the status choir or do you think that changes to happen,
:38:05. > :38:11.Martin Sime? I think changes Deeney to happen in
:38:11. > :38:16.the devolution settlement. It is 13 years old now. We know where the
:38:16. > :38:21.strengths and weaknesses are. Some of our members are unhappy about
:38:21. > :38:25.some of the services run by the UK Parliament. The work programme has
:38:25. > :38:29.been much in the news recently. We would like to see devolution of
:38:30. > :38:34.these matters so that they could be integrated with services from the
:38:34. > :38:40.Scottish government. This is just so you have easy
:38:40. > :38:44.access to ministers? Absolutely not. The Scottish
:38:44. > :38:47.Parliament is very open to engagement with voluntary
:38:47. > :38:54.organisations. This is about how best we can serve the needs of
:38:54. > :39:00.unemployed people. Getting the best service for people is what matters.
:39:00. > :39:03.That is just a policy disagreement. What makes you think there would be
:39:03. > :39:07.a different resort in the Scottish Parliament?
:39:07. > :39:12.There is a dislocation between services between Holyrood and
:39:12. > :39:16.Westminster. There are institutions that belong to both governments on
:39:17. > :39:22.the high street. It is not good for the customer. If we talk about
:39:22. > :39:26.benefits as well, we need to grapple with the issue of how they
:39:26. > :39:30.interact with our health and care services in Scotland. Some aspects
:39:30. > :39:34.of benefits have to be integrated with our health and care systems
:39:34. > :39:38.because otherwise we create this location and that is only going to
:39:38. > :39:44.get worse as the differences between the health service in
:39:44. > :39:49.Scotland and England grow. They will diverge. We need some control
:39:49. > :39:53.over benefits in that context. Jeremy Purvis, is this really all
:39:53. > :39:59.about advancing devolution or scuppering the SNP's independence
:39:59. > :40:05.again? The case for devolution plus goes
:40:05. > :40:10.back a long time. I wrote a pamphlet on this eight years ago.
:40:10. > :40:18.Many support Devo Plus who have argued the case for a stronger
:40:18. > :40:24.Scotland within the UK. The Devo Plus group believe this is the
:40:24. > :40:34.correct rate for what. Weather are not there was a referendum, we
:40:34. > :40:35.
:40:35. > :40:39.would be arguing for this. -- correct way forward. I believe for
:40:39. > :40:44.the current settlement is not appropriate. We do need the
:40:44. > :40:49.Scottish Parliament to stand on his own two feet more. We are all proud
:40:49. > :40:55.of the Scottish Parliament. The next stage is a habit more in one
:40:55. > :40:58.tranche of its own power. I think the big challenge for
:40:58. > :41:01.Jeremy and the politicians supporting Missen initiative is how
:41:02. > :41:09.to be get to that point with his Scottish Parliament?
:41:09. > :41:14.Should it be on the ballot paper? That is the question. His sole
:41:14. > :41:19.alternative to put it and it on the ballot paper? I am in favour of a
:41:19. > :41:22.popular mandate for more powers for the Scottish Parliament. That is
:41:22. > :41:28.the way forward. I am sure we will be discussing
:41:28. > :41:32.this much more in the months ahead. David Cameron used p end-use to
:41:32. > :41:37.commend it -- to contend a suggestion that workers could
:41:37. > :41:43.strike during the London Olympics. The main clash was over health
:41:43. > :41:50.reforms in England. The Kamlesh and aims to give GPs control of much of
:41:50. > :41:58.the NHS budget and open it up to more competition.
:41:58. > :42:05.Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, they are fiercely well trained today. Let me
:42:05. > :42:13.tell them. Their support for the Health Bill is digging in their
:42:13. > :42:17.whole burial at the next general election. I did ask him at a
:42:17. > :42:23.specific question. I know by now that he does not like to answer the
:42:23. > :42:29.questions but it was a simple point. Who supports his bell? Answer came
:42:29. > :42:34.there none from this Prime Minister. Let us refresh his memory of who
:42:34. > :42:43.opposes this bill. It is no good the Deputy Prime Minister smirking.
:42:44. > :42:49.I do not know if he supports a repose is set. Is a poor set. -- he
:42:49. > :42:55.supports it. There is leadership for you. Let us refresh your memory,
:42:55. > :43:00.Mr Speaker, of who wants this withdrawn. The Royal College of GPs,
:43:00. > :43:05.the Royal College of Nursing, the Royal College of midwives, the
:43:05. > :43:09.Royal College of radiologists, the Faculty of Public Health, the
:43:09. > :43:16.Chartered Society of physiotherapists, Health Visitors
:43:16. > :43:26.Association, as the patients' Association. Mr Speaker, doesn't it
:43:26. > :43:33.ever occur to the Prime Minister, they have just maybe they are right
:43:33. > :43:39.and he is wrong. He did not mention the National
:43:39. > :43:42.Association of primary care, supporting rebel, the NHS Alliance,
:43:42. > :43:49.supporting the bell. The Association of Chief executives at
:43:49. > :43:54.the voluntary organisations, supporting rebel. Lot Garside,
:43:55. > :44:00.Labour minister. Who was he? He was researching you hired to run the
:44:00. > :44:05.health service. All weeks in a row on NHS questions but not a single
:44:05. > :44:11.question of substance. Not one. All about process, all about politics,
:44:11. > :44:17.never about the substance. Now, Mr Speaker, it is a leap year so maybe
:44:17. > :44:22.just this once I get asked the question. We all know what he is
:44:22. > :44:29.against but isn't it time he told us what he is for up?
:44:29. > :44:35.Mr Speaker, at in my constituency of Gloucester people will be
:44:35. > :44:39.looking forward to the start of the Olympic Games. A great opportunity
:44:39. > :44:45.to celebrate how well the UK manages great global events. Not
:44:45. > :44:50.everybody sees it as that sort of opportunity. The general secretary
:44:50. > :44:53.of one of our unions see it as an opportunity for a general strike.
:44:53. > :45:00.Does the Prime Minister agree with me then nothing could be further
:45:00. > :45:08.from the spirit of the Olympics all do more damage to our country?
:45:08. > :45:11.Thank you, Mr Speaker. I think he speaks for the whole country. The
:45:11. > :45:16.general secretary said that he is calling on the general public to
:45:16. > :45:21.engage in civil disobedience. That is what he said. Unite is the
:45:21. > :45:26.biggest single donor to the party opposite, providing a third of
:45:26. > :45:29.their money and had a more of a role than anyone else in putting
:45:29. > :45:36.the right honourable gentleman in his place. They need to concern
:45:36. > :45:46.this utterly and start handing back Our Westminster Correspondent,
:45:46. > :45:50.David Porter, joins me from outside the Commons now. The phone hacking
:45:50. > :45:59.scandal at News International has taken another twist with the
:45:59. > :46:06.announcement that James Murdoch is standing down as chairman of News
:46:06. > :46:12.International. It has been announced by the parent company
:46:12. > :46:17.News Corporation that he will be concentrating on the company's
:46:17. > :46:22.television interests in the United States. To many people, he has been
:46:22. > :46:27.the face of News International. He has gone before the committees at
:46:27. > :46:34.the House of Commons, answering questions about the phone hacking
:46:34. > :46:43.scandal. It raises questions about who will take over from him under
:46:43. > :46:51.the strategy that the company has. Referred to murder it is a
:46:51. > :46:56.newspaper man. But his son James it did not have that affinity. People
:46:56. > :47:00.will be wondering who will take over from him. And indeed what the
:47:00. > :47:05.future will be for the News International titles in the United
:47:06. > :47:09.Kingdom. There are some reports coming from New York that News
:47:09. > :47:19.Corporation may decide to try and sell those British titles. Yet
:47:19. > :47:25.another development in the phone hacking scandal. Something else in
:47:25. > :47:29.the difficulty is that the coalition's reforms it to the
:47:29. > :47:35.health service in England. How much trouble are those reforms end?
:47:35. > :47:39.has been causing it huge trouble for the coalition government. The
:47:39. > :47:49.UK Government is proposing that the health service in England has to be
:47:49. > :47:49.
:47:49. > :47:52.more efficient by introducing competition. They are going to make
:47:52. > :47:59.GPs that the gatekeepers to the health service, giving them more
:47:59. > :48:09.power over where patients abroad for treatment and their budgets. --
:48:09. > :48:10.
:48:11. > :48:14.where a patients go for treatment. There are severe concerns from the
:48:14. > :48:18.medical professionals, from the Labour Party and many Liberal
:48:18. > :48:26.Democrat MPs that plans have to introduce more competition into the
:48:26. > :48:32.NHS in England will be a retrograde step. There have already been some
:48:32. > :48:38.compromises by the coalition government. They are very worried,
:48:38. > :48:42.Liberal Democrat activists are still worried about this. They may
:48:42. > :48:51.try to scupper this bill. It is causing real trouble for the
:48:51. > :49:01.collision. Briefly, the London Olympics could have some trouble?
:49:01. > :49:02.
:49:02. > :49:06.Yes, Len McCluskey, the boss of the union unite has suggested that
:49:07. > :49:16.because of what he sees as the war on the public sector, disrupting
:49:17. > :49:18.
:49:18. > :49:22.the Olympics it could be a legitimate strategy. But Labour has
:49:22. > :49:26.said that is an acceptable. The Prime Minister again at see him
:49:27. > :49:36.this is not the thing to do. But it raises questions about what might
:49:37. > :49:40.
:49:40. > :49:50.happen with industrial relations come the summer. Our main news
:49:50. > :49:51.
:49:51. > :49:59.today is about the statement by Kenny MacAskill. Thank you for
:49:59. > :50:05.joining us. Mr MacDonald, what is your reaction to what Kenny
:50:05. > :50:15.MacAskill had to tell MSPs today? He was unequivocal that he had
:50:15. > :50:16.
:50:16. > :50:26.followed the rule book. He was unequivocal in saying that he had
:50:26. > :50:28.
:50:28. > :50:33.said to Mr Al Megrahi the he ought to withdraw his appeal. That backed
:50:34. > :50:40.was not alleged by Mr Al Megrahi, he said that a third party had
:50:40. > :50:50.suggested it to come. The Cabinet Secretary highlighted quite a
:50:50. > :50:50.
:50:50. > :50:56.number... There are questions for the cabinet secretary. He said that
:50:56. > :51:06.nothing said at those meetings, everything was recorded in the
:51:06. > :51:07.
:51:07. > :51:10.minutes. It is at least understandable that Mr Al Megrahi
:51:10. > :51:15.formed the impression that he was being encouraged to go down that
:51:15. > :51:21.route. What I wonder is why Kenny MacAskill was not clear with him
:51:21. > :51:30.and with the Libyan foreign minister about what the choices
:51:30. > :51:34.were. David McLetchie, you have asked for documents to be published,
:51:34. > :51:41.have you written to Kenneth Clarke asking him to waive the data
:51:41. > :51:45.protection rules? First of all, the documents and that we want
:51:45. > :51:55.published are the underlying medical reports about Al Megrahi's
:51:55. > :51:55.
:51:55. > :52:02.edition that led to his release. It was a disastrous error of judgement.
:52:02. > :52:07.These documents, the Scottish government refuses to publish them.
:52:07. > :52:12.If I had been Kenny MacAskill, I would have insisted that all that
:52:12. > :52:22.information was put in the public domain to justify his decision. He
:52:22. > :52:23.
:52:23. > :52:27.did not. That is why people equate with dropping their appeal -- that
:52:27. > :52:33.is why people equate dropping the appeal with release on
:52:33. > :52:39.compassionate grounds. Why is get the passport still answering
:52:39. > :52:44.questions about this? There is still continuing interest in the
:52:44. > :52:48.Lockerbie atrocity. But my colleagues cannot have it both ways.
:52:48. > :52:54.We cannot other Cabinet Secretary for Justice setting aside
:52:54. > :52:58.legislation on medical records and data protection. There are matters
:52:58. > :53:01.for the UK Government to address here. This was a man who was
:53:01. > :53:06.convicted of the greatest act of mass murder in Scottish criminal
:53:06. > :53:13.history. This is not a normal case by any standards. Kenny MacAskill
:53:13. > :53:23.made it clear that he wants an exception made on data protection
:53:23. > :53:32.
:53:32. > :53:37.rules. Why county publish the medical evidence? -- why cannot he?
:53:37. > :53:42.To question the professional judgment of a medical
:53:42. > :53:45.practitioner... A I was not suggesting that. I was asking
:53:46. > :53:55.whether Kerry the cast go should adopt the perspective he wants to
:53:55. > :53:59.the UK Government to adopt? We have had the ink legal experts tell us
:53:59. > :54:08.different things other the Data Protection, but my understanding is
:54:08. > :54:17.that there is a caveat in the legislation which would facilitate
:54:17. > :54:27.the release of such information. I am not sure whether there is such
:54:27. > :54:27.
:54:27. > :54:35.latitude as regards medical information. Camelot just except
:54:35. > :54:45.that it was an appropriate the least? The compassionate grounds
:54:45. > :54:45.
:54:45. > :54:55.seem to have been ill-founded. We believe that their advice should be
:54:55. > :54:55.
:54:56. > :55:02.made public. I cannot believe that in the case of the worst atrocity
:55:02. > :55:08.in Scottish history, we are hiding behind their Data Protection Act.
:55:08. > :55:12.It may well be that the UK Government is hiding behind the
:55:12. > :55:18.Data Protection Act. That is why you should be calling for the
:55:18. > :55:22.release of the information. Kenny MacAskill says it was his decision,
:55:22. > :55:31.it was nothing to do with the UK Government. This decision is
:55:31. > :55:34.clearly one that has been flawed. David McLetchie, there has not be a
:55:35. > :55:41.scrap of evidence that Kenny MacAskill has acted inappropriately
:55:41. > :55:49.in this entire process? There is plenty of scraps of evidence. He
:55:49. > :55:59.had a special the set with Al Megrahi in his prison cell, he
:55:59. > :56:00.
:56:00. > :56:05.released him. To suggest otherwise is contrary to the facts of. Your
:56:05. > :56:12.reaction to that? It is disappointing that we still have
:56:12. > :56:17.this lingering on. Mr Al Megrahi was accompanied by his legal
:56:17. > :56:23.representative at the meetings. Mr Michel Scott said that had he not
:56:23. > :56:26.follow the rules, he would be subject to a judicial review.
:56:26. > :56:32.sure the debate will continue for quite some time to come. Thank you
:56:33. > :56:41.for joining us. The appraisal of Allender Institute
:56:41. > :56:47.has slashed its growth forecast for that Scottish economy this year.
:56:47. > :56:56.However, the Institute suggested there were some signs of recovery.
:56:56. > :57:06.The economy is continuing to be come -- is continuing to grow
:57:06. > :57:06.
:57:06. > :57:16.weaker. On that basis, we expect growth to be weak this year in
:57:16. > :57:19.
:57:19. > :57:25.Scotland. We are predicting 0.4%. Unemployment is rising, we expect
:57:25. > :57:35.it to rise to about 265,000 by the end of this year. That is not far
:57:35. > :57:37.
:57:37. > :57:44.away from 10%. It is much higher than the level we were at at the
:57:44. > :57:54.worse. Of the recession. However, we think there is some possible
:57:54. > :58:00.
:58:00. > :58:06.light at the end of the tunnel in that inflation is falling. And
:58:06. > :58:11.there have been some... For both these reasons, I would expect
:58:11. > :58:21.growth to pick up next year and we are forecasting improved growth
:58:21. > :58:21.
:58:21. > :58:24.next year, and particularly strong growth in 24 team -- 2040. But the
:58:24. > :58:33.Scottish economy it will not get back to where it was before the
:58:33. > :58:37.start of the recession until the end of 2040. Unemployment heading
:58:37. > :58:42.towards 10%? That has bigger repercussions for politicians north
:58:42. > :58:50.and south of the border. Yes, very much so. What we do not know is how
:58:50. > :58:55.the public are going to react. Who will the blame? Behind all this is
:58:55. > :58:59.the limit referendum end to President 14. There could be decent
:58:59. > :59:04.growth in 2014, but if that is on the back of high unemployment, it
:59:04. > :59:13.will have to go a long way before there is a feel-good factor in the
:59:13. > :59:23.economy. Do the voters of them blame of the UK Government? Or do
:59:23. > :59:28.
:59:28. > :59:33.they bought with the wall ats -- or do they vote with their wallets?
:59:33. > :59:36.And I think a lot of people are like that. People want to know if
:59:36. > :59:46.they will be better off under independence. That is where the
:59:46. > :59:47.
:59:47. > :59:57.arguments will be won or lost. The Unionists are saying stick with us
:59:57. > :59:58.
:59:58. > :00:03.By virtue of the attention the Scottish government gets, we often
:00:03. > :00:07.hear their economic message. Will the Coalition governments have to
:00:07. > :00:12.act in the same way and concentrate on the economy to show people they
:00:12. > :00:15.are listening? I think the UK Government had to
:00:15. > :00:20.concentrate on more than the economy. If you speak to people in
:00:20. > :00:24.the SNP they have been surprised by how little David Cameron really
:00:24. > :00:29.knew about the situation when he came up to start negotiations with
:00:29. > :00:35.Alex Salmond. I think David Cameron and his people need to focus much
:00:35. > :00:38.more on the arguments which, for you and I, we have on a daily basis.
:00:38. > :00:43.They have to really engage or they will find themselves so far behind
:00:43. > :00:48.in this debate that they are in danger of losing it.
:00:48. > :00:53.On Devo Plus, this new campaign that has been launched, do you
:00:53. > :00:58.think that the supporters of that will be able to easily communicate
:00:58. > :01:05.what they mean by this? No, I do not but we are quite a
:01:05. > :01:09.while out from when it this question needs to coalesce. I think
:01:09. > :01:16.the parties in opposition have a way to go before they decide what
:01:16. > :01:20.they want. Six Scotland has to feel its way. We will get to a suspect -
:01:20. > :01:28.- and we will get to a stage where something will emerge on Devo Plus
:01:28. > :01:31.or Devo Max. A second question, yes or no?
:01:31. > :01:36.Yes. Let us give you the highlight again
:01:36. > :01:41.from what we heard from can he MacAskill in his statement to MSPs.
:01:41. > :01:45.He was absolutely clear that he had never suggested to the Lockerbie