:00:13. > :00:18.Hello and welcome to Politics Scotland.
:00:19. > :00:24.The letter has been delivered, Article 50 has been formally
:00:25. > :00:25.triggered and Britain is on course to leave the European Union after 44
:00:26. > :00:27.years of membership. Over the next hour we'll bring
:00:28. > :00:38.you reaction from Brussels, Northern Ireland is deadlocked, the
:00:39. > :00:44.Welsh are alienated. Scotland is going for a referendum. The English
:00:45. > :00:47.are split down the middle. As the Prime Minister considered, in terms
:00:48. > :00:50.of invoking Article 50, that now is not the time?
:00:51. > :00:55.And here at Westminster, now the deed has been done
:00:56. > :00:58.and the letter sent, exactly how will the divorce be handled?
:00:59. > :01:01.Britain has delivered the letter formally
:01:02. > :01:04.notifying the European Union that it is leaving after 44
:01:05. > :01:18.Expires the starting gun for two years of negotiations to work out
:01:19. > :01:20.future relations between the two. -- it fires the starting gun.
:01:21. > :01:23.With me in the studio all afternoon is the political commentator
:01:24. > :01:31.Whichever way you look at it, it is a huge day? A huge day, there is a
:01:32. > :01:34.sense that even those of us that have been following this really
:01:35. > :01:37.closely for nine months, it was somehow unreal, this was not going
:01:38. > :01:42.to happen, something would get in the way. But this is it, it is now
:01:43. > :01:47.real, the letter has been delivered, the UK is leaving the European Union
:01:48. > :01:51.and it means huge changes across the board. Now negotiations can begin.
:01:52. > :01:56.There are a lot of things to negotiate about. There is not much
:01:57. > :02:00.time and really big stakes here as Hollywood reminded us yesterday.
:02:01. > :02:05.Exactly. If you look back over the history of the EU and how long it
:02:06. > :02:11.takes to negotiate even the smallest treaty, you think about all of the
:02:12. > :02:14.areas in which the UK and the EU are inextricably bound up, trade,
:02:15. > :02:18.defence, financial services, all sorts of things. All of this has to
:02:19. > :02:21.be done and the UK has to be extricated from all of those
:02:22. > :02:24.different strands within the next two years, and all of the other
:02:25. > :02:30.member states have do have a vote on it. It is a massive task for all
:02:31. > :02:38.involved. Triggering Article 50, it is that moment when Brexit myth and
:02:39. > :02:41.claim, and Brexit reality really collide. Has the UK Government, from
:02:42. > :02:47.what you can see, got a credible plan to make a success of this? The
:02:48. > :02:50.UK Government has a plan. Whether it is credible, we will see over the
:02:51. > :02:53.next few months. The plan is very simply to get the best deal that
:02:54. > :02:57.they possibly can for the UK. They want to get as much access to the
:02:58. > :03:02.single market, they want to get as much free trade as they can. At the
:03:03. > :03:05.same time, not paying any money, or as little money as they counter the
:03:06. > :03:09.EU and walking away with as good a deal as they can get. On the other
:03:10. > :03:15.side, you have the EU, which is clear that it cannot give the UK a
:03:16. > :03:19.better deal outside the EU than could get inside. So, it is going to
:03:20. > :03:26.be fraught. Yes, the UK has a plan. But I think we will only know in 6-9
:03:27. > :03:28.months whether even the chance has a plan -- a plan has a chance of
:03:29. > :03:29.success. Just less than two hours ago,
:03:30. > :03:31.the Prime Minister stood up in the Commons and formally
:03:32. > :03:33.triggered Article 50. Here's just a flavour
:03:34. > :03:44.of what happened. Today, the government acts on the
:03:45. > :03:53.democratic will of the British people. It acts too on the clear and
:03:54. > :03:57.convincing position of this house. A few minutes ago, in Brussels, the
:03:58. > :04:01.United Kingdom 's permanent representative to the EU handed a
:04:02. > :04:04.letter to the President of the European Council on my behalf,
:04:05. > :04:08.confirming the Government's decision to invoke Article 50 of the Treaty
:04:09. > :04:13.on the European Union. The Article 50 process is now under way. In
:04:14. > :04:18.accordance with the wishes of the British people, the United Kingdom
:04:19. > :04:26.is leaving the European Union. This is an historic moment from which
:04:27. > :04:30.there can be no turning back. Today, we embark on the country's most
:04:31. > :04:35.important negotiations in modern times. The British people made the
:04:36. > :04:39.decision to leave the European Union and Labour respect that decision.
:04:40. > :04:46.The next steps along this journey are the most crucial. If the Prime
:04:47. > :04:51.Minister is to unite the country, as she says she aims to do, the
:04:52. > :04:58.Government needs to listen, consult and represent the whole country, not
:04:59. > :05:05.just the hardline Tory ideologues on her own benches. Britain is going to
:05:06. > :05:10.change as a result of leaving the European Union. The question is,
:05:11. > :05:15.how? Last year, Mr Speaker, I have raised repeatedly in this chamber
:05:16. > :05:22.the Prime Minister made a commitment to a UK wide approach, an agreement
:05:23. > :05:26.with the governments of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Since
:05:27. > :05:30.then, the Scottish Government has published a compromise suggestion.
:05:31. > :05:36.At its heart, a differentiated plant that could satisfy people in
:05:37. > :05:42.Scotland and the rest of the UK. -- plan. The Prime Minister could have
:05:43. > :05:47.said, the Prime Minister could have said that she would try it, try to
:05:48. > :05:51.seek an agreement with European partners on the plan which could
:05:52. > :05:56.have protected Scotland's place in the European market, but she didn't.
:05:57. > :06:01.Article 50 was triggered in Brussels in the form of a letter written by
:06:02. > :06:06.Theresa May and delivered by the UK Government's ambassador in Brussels,
:06:07. > :06:09.Sir Tim Barrow. Shortly after receiving it, the President of the
:06:10. > :06:19.European Council, Donald Tusk, made this statement. So, here it is. Six
:06:20. > :06:27.pages. The notification from Prime Minister Theresa May, triggering
:06:28. > :06:33.Article 50. Formerly starting the negotiations of the United Kingdom's
:06:34. > :06:39.withdrawal from the European Union. There is no reason to pretend that
:06:40. > :06:47.this is a happy day, neither in Brussels or in London. After all,
:06:48. > :06:52.most Europeans, including almost half the British voters, wish that
:06:53. > :07:05.we would stay together, not drift apart. For me, I will not pretend
:07:06. > :07:12.that I am happy today. But, paradoxically, there is also
:07:13. > :07:20.something positive in Brexit. Brexit has made us, the community of 27,
:07:21. > :07:25.more determined and more united than before. Lets talk to our Westminster
:07:26. > :07:34.correspondent David Porter. So, we heard from Theresa May, right across
:07:35. > :07:38.the UK, people on both sides of the Brexit debate, to unite in this
:07:39. > :07:43.great national effort, as she put it, to make Brexit a success. What
:07:44. > :07:47.did you make of what she said? I think a lot of it was expected. This
:07:48. > :07:52.is a copy of the letter that she sent to Brussels, to Donald Tusk, as
:07:53. > :07:56.we have just been hearing. I think she was treading a fine line in a
:07:57. > :08:00.statement. She was saying that nothing is going to be the same
:08:01. > :08:04.again, from today all of the rhetoric we have heard over the last
:08:05. > :08:08.nine months, the High Court, the actions, the Supreme Court hearings,
:08:09. > :08:13.the rows that have gone on inside that place, that is all over now.
:08:14. > :08:17.Now it is for real and we have a situation where Britain has formally
:08:18. > :08:21.said that, for the first time in 44 years, it wants to leave the trade
:08:22. > :08:26.block it has been part of. What Theresa May was trying to did they
:08:27. > :08:29.was to tread a fine line between saying we are going to negotiate and
:08:30. > :08:34.we are going to negotiate hard, but also to say that we wanted to
:08:35. > :08:39.negotiate. We are not just going to bang on the table. We realise there
:08:40. > :08:43.has to be compromises on this one. We do want to strike a deal if we
:08:44. > :08:47.can. What did you make of the tone of what she had to say? At one
:08:48. > :08:52.point, I will quote it, she said we are leaving the European Union, but
:08:53. > :08:56.not leaving Europe, we want to remain committed partners and allies
:08:57. > :09:01.to our friends across the continent. That was not hardline, that is
:09:02. > :09:04.fairly pragmatic in town? She has been fairly emollient in the speech
:09:05. > :09:12.that she has made. If you look at this latter, the hard-code rhetoric
:09:13. > :09:15.is not there. There will be some Brexiteers that have wanted to get
:09:16. > :09:19.out of Europe for years he will perhaps think she being a little bit
:09:20. > :09:24.soft. I think what she is wanting to do is reserve her powder, so to
:09:25. > :09:28.speak. She knows that the negotiations will be long, they will
:09:29. > :09:32.be tough, they will be protracted. There will be plenty of times for
:09:33. > :09:37.rows in the weeks, months and possibly even years ahead. I think
:09:38. > :09:42.what she was wanting to try to do is be as emollient and constructive as
:09:43. > :09:47.she could do at the moment. There is no guarantee that it will continue
:09:48. > :09:51.like that. More to come, we have the publication of a Great Repeal Bill,
:09:52. > :10:00.the Government will really want to get negotiations going? Let's deal
:10:01. > :10:03.with that Great Repeal Bill. It is something that is actually quite
:10:04. > :10:07.hard to get hold of. If you think of it this way, it is a way of taking
:10:08. > :10:10.all the EU law that we have at the moment that has been made in
:10:11. > :10:17.Brussels and putting it back to the UK. It is a phenomenally complex and
:10:18. > :10:23.lengthy piece of legislation, but also a very important one. Next,
:10:24. > :10:31.onto the question that you asked about negotiations and when they
:10:32. > :10:36.will be beginning. We had an initial response, and we will get a further
:10:37. > :10:38.one in a couple of days. I doubt the HARDTalk is good to start
:10:39. > :10:41.immediately. There are certain events, such as the French
:10:42. > :10:50.elections, which have got to take place and various other things in
:10:51. > :10:56.the European calendar. Where I think there will be a point of contention
:10:57. > :11:00.is how the negotiations start. Will they be negotiations held in tandem,
:11:01. > :11:04.will they be talking about Britain's withdrawal from the EU and, at the
:11:05. > :11:08.same time, the possible is of trade deals, or will the EU collectively
:11:09. > :11:14.play hardball and say that we have to sort the money helped first, --
:11:15. > :11:19.sort the money helped first, potentially what the UK is owed and
:11:20. > :11:25.will owe the European Union, before we do anything else.
:11:26. > :11:33.Lets cross to Hollywood and Brian Taylor. MSPs will be watching events
:11:34. > :11:39.in Brussels and Westminster and being reminded that they are not in
:11:40. > :11:43.the driving seat today. What is the mood? They are not, with regard to
:11:44. > :11:48.the negotiations in the European Union, they will be conducted by the
:11:49. > :11:51.United Kingdom Prime Minister. That causes great disquiet to say the
:11:52. > :12:02.least to Angus Robertson. He believes the Prime Minister has a
:12:03. > :12:10.reneged on that, and the Prime Minister said it was always the case
:12:11. > :12:16.that it would be devolved, but driven by the UK. Then we have the
:12:17. > :12:18.option of independence, if you are standing from a nationalist
:12:19. > :12:22.position, you hear the speech from the Prime Minister, you say that,
:12:23. > :12:26.the argument is that the shape of Brexit will be clear within 18
:12:27. > :12:34.months or two years, and therefore that opens the door to a referendum
:12:35. > :12:40.on that timescale. The Conservatives say that two years of negotiation,
:12:41. > :12:50.followed by a phase transition period to avoid that the cliff edge
:12:51. > :12:52.concern, and say do not even contemplate a referendum on
:12:53. > :12:56.independence until that is out of the way. Then we have a third
:12:57. > :12:59.factor, what will emerge from these talks? We spoke to the First
:13:00. > :13:02.Minister and she believes that the Prime Minister is simply not in
:13:03. > :13:07.command of events. There is no doubt that what is happening today does
:13:08. > :13:13.represent something of a leap in the dark. Nine months after the
:13:14. > :13:17.referendum, the Prime Minister cannot answer basic questions about
:13:18. > :13:20.what Brexit will mean for businesses, for the economy
:13:21. > :13:24.generally, the type of society we live in. Article 50 is the big event
:13:25. > :13:30.today, the huge event. Nicola Sturgeon is commenting on it but not
:13:31. > :13:32.intervening in it. She wishes the Prime Minister well in that task, in
:13:33. > :13:37.the aims and ambitions of achieving as good a deal as possible for
:13:38. > :13:40.Britain. Then we refer to the independence question. Nicola
:13:41. > :13:46.Sturgeon will dispatch her letter, perhaps on Thursday, perhaps on
:13:47. > :13:51.Friday, following the vote on Friday, and what will the Prime
:13:52. > :13:55.Minister's response be? She was a no. The Prime Minister said in the
:13:56. > :14:00.Commons that she expected some of the powers which will be returned
:14:01. > :14:05.from Brussels to go to the devolved administrations in Scotland and
:14:06. > :14:12.Northern Ireland. Does that add anything to what we already know? I
:14:13. > :14:17.think it has already been known and been said. It will be the difference
:14:18. > :14:21.between what the PM is saying and what the letter says, that the
:14:22. > :14:27.accretion of EU roars down the decades will be returned to the UK
:14:28. > :14:32.member state and built into British law. It is at that point that you
:14:33. > :14:41.will have the dispersal of some of these powers. The Prime Minister
:14:42. > :14:46.said that Scotland will not lose any powers, and secondly that there will
:14:47. > :14:49.be further involvement in additional powers. What the Scottish Government
:14:50. > :14:53.is saying is that areas like agriculture and fisheries are
:14:54. > :14:56.already devolved, they should go automatically, the European element
:14:57. > :14:59.should return automatically to devolved power. I think the UK
:15:00. > :15:03.Government sees it as a 2-stage process.
:15:04. > :15:13.Brian Taylor, Holyrood. Let's get more from Hamish McDonnell from the
:15:14. > :15:17.Times. This call for an independence referendum from Hollywood, in a
:15:18. > :15:20.sense, MSPs got their retaliation in first yesterday? The whole thing
:15:21. > :15:26.seems to have been choreographed by spin doctors. We have a debate, we
:15:27. > :15:30.have a vote, we have Nicola Sturgeon saying, right, this letter will be
:15:31. > :15:34.presented. Then, that very evening, we got footage of Theresa May
:15:35. > :15:37.signing her letter to go to Brussels. The letter from Nicola
:15:38. > :15:41.Sturgeon is now going to be delayed for a couple of days until the news
:15:42. > :15:48.agenda dies down. I think there was a lot this week which has that feel
:15:49. > :15:50.of being stage-managed. I think it leaves us with a sense that nobody
:15:51. > :15:54.quite knows what is going to happen after we get past these
:15:55. > :15:58.stage-managed events. When we get it next week, and all of these letters
:15:59. > :16:03.have been delivered, the stated positions of all of the parties are
:16:04. > :16:06.there, then we enter into a whole new sort of episode where, really,
:16:07. > :16:12.nobody knows where we are going. We are going to get a letter from
:16:13. > :16:19.Nicola Sturgeon to Theresa May, calling for another referendum,
:16:20. > :16:24.demanding it. Brian said, as we heard, that the answer was going to
:16:25. > :16:28.be no. What then? I think we got some hint from David Mundell, the
:16:29. > :16:33.Scottish Secretary, last night. He gave the impression that the
:16:34. > :16:35.timescale the UK Government are looking for another independence
:16:36. > :16:40.referendum is going to be pushed out probably beyond the next 2021
:16:41. > :16:44.Scottish elections. All that is what they want. Nicola Sturgeon said she
:16:45. > :16:50.wanted between the autumn of 2018 and the spring of 2019, and the UK
:16:51. > :16:54.Government says we want to push that ours far as possible. In that sense,
:16:55. > :16:58.we have a constitutional stalemate. There are some things that the First
:16:59. > :17:01.Minister can do. She can make very symbolic gestures, she can make sure
:17:02. > :17:04.that the bill authorising a new referendum can be put through the
:17:05. > :17:11.Scottish parliament, even though it has no legal effect. She can even
:17:12. > :17:15.introduce her own Section 30 order, which has no legal effect. All that
:17:16. > :17:17.will do a symbol boldly say that the Scottish Government is ready, the
:17:18. > :17:21.Scottish parliament is ready for another independence referendum.
:17:22. > :17:23.They won permission from Westminster. Really, it is a way of
:17:24. > :17:27.keeping the pressure on the Prime Minister to say, we have not gone
:17:28. > :17:30.away, we are still demanding an independence referendum and we can
:17:31. > :17:32.continue to put pressure on, as much as we can. Thank you for now.
:17:33. > :17:35.So what does Theresa May's letter tell us about
:17:36. > :17:40.Joining me now via Skype from Brussels is Ryan Heath -
:17:41. > :17:47.Politico magazine's Senior EU Correspondent.
:17:48. > :17:56.Thank you very much for joining us. We heard there a conciliatory
:17:57. > :18:03.message from Theresa May in the Commons. Almost a sad and sorrowful
:18:04. > :18:07.response from Donald Tusk, the European Council President. Does
:18:08. > :18:13.that go well for talks? I think we should not read much into the
:18:14. > :18:15.difference in tone. The EU is busy very sad this is happening. It is
:18:16. > :18:20.not something they wanted, even though it is one half of Britain
:18:21. > :18:26.wanted. I think Theresa May has been upping the negative rhetoric over
:18:27. > :18:29.the first weeks and months of 2017, that put the EU in a bit of a
:18:30. > :18:38.defensive mode. There were caught out by the government really pushing
:18:39. > :18:46.for the harvest of hard -- hardest of hard Brexits. Theresa May has
:18:47. > :18:50.come out with a better sense of goodwill, try to get off on the
:18:51. > :18:54.right foot, and maybe that has wrong-footed Donald Tusk. I think it
:18:55. > :18:57.will settle down in the weeks and months to come. We know that the UK
:18:58. > :19:03.Government wants to tie everything together. They want to agree a
:19:04. > :19:06.divorce deal and an exit deal, and a potential trade deal, all together,
:19:07. > :19:12.because the clock is ticking. They want it all to be done and dusted,
:19:13. > :19:16.all in one. How does the EU see that? There was the case of Theresa
:19:17. > :19:20.May saying she wants it all. Until now, the EU has been reasonably firm
:19:21. > :19:22.that this has to be going in a certain sequence, that you need to
:19:23. > :19:27.settle your bill, that you need to make sure you know what is happening
:19:28. > :19:31.with citizens that live abroad, from both the UK and the EU, before you
:19:32. > :19:35.start talking about the free trade deal. That probably was not very
:19:36. > :19:39.realistic, even if it was technically and legally correct to
:19:40. > :19:44.say that. At the same time, Theresa May can't have what she wants, the
:19:45. > :19:50.biggest, deepest, best ever tree deal with the EU that doesn't
:19:51. > :19:55.include components of how the single market works, like freedom of
:19:56. > :20:01.movement. At some point, the parties will have to make trade-offs. They
:20:02. > :20:06.are sticking out their opening gambits, they are saying what they
:20:07. > :20:09.ideally want, but that is not how negotiations work. Either you
:20:10. > :20:13.compromise or there is no deal. How much of a problem could it be for
:20:14. > :20:19.the UK that the EU might not want to make it easy for the UK to leave?
:20:20. > :20:22.Might they want to try to hammer the UK? There are people that want to
:20:23. > :20:26.make the divorce painful, either because they want to get a pound of
:20:27. > :20:31.flesh, or they are looking at interests of the EU 27. You have
:20:32. > :20:34.people like the leader of the biggest party in the European
:20:35. > :20:38.Parliament, he says, well, it is not my job any more to look out for
:20:39. > :20:42.Britain's interests. It is my job to look out for the 440 million. That
:20:43. > :20:46.sounds harsh, but that is what Theresa May is doing when she says
:20:47. > :20:50.she is putting Britain first in these negotiations. You have some of
:20:51. > :20:54.this tough language here. The problem for Britain is that when it
:20:55. > :20:57.is 27 against one in the negotiation and the clock is ticking down, that
:20:58. > :21:01.is when it gets harder for Britain. That is why it was so important to
:21:02. > :21:05.get off to a good start today, try to keep some goodwill in the room.
:21:06. > :21:11.If you don't get the early progress, if there is bad blood, in the first
:21:12. > :21:16.months, it is much harder to catch up when you're down into the final
:21:17. > :21:20.months in 2018. This is the first time for the EU, in a sense. It is
:21:21. > :21:24.the first time any country has wanted out. Until now, there has
:21:25. > :21:29.just been a line of countries queueing to get in. How difficult is
:21:30. > :21:33.that going to be for Brussels and, indeed, for other European
:21:34. > :21:37.countries? Very difficult. Brussels is a town that isn't the best at
:21:38. > :21:40.self reflection, let's say. They do well when they are doing well and
:21:41. > :21:47.they find it very hard to cope with criticism. You know, if you make
:21:48. > :21:50.criticisms of how the EU operates, you frequently seen as somebody who
:21:51. > :21:54.wants to destroy the EU, or bring it down. That is not the case for many
:21:55. > :21:57.critics of the EU. Brussels is going to have to learn to live with the
:21:58. > :22:00.fact that there are going to be people criticising it every single
:22:01. > :22:05.day. They will have a very tough job to keep 27 countries on one page. It
:22:06. > :22:08.will be in Theresa May's interests to make sure she is getting some
:22:09. > :22:12.reassurances from Germany on the car industry, make sure she is working
:22:13. > :22:18.with Baltic countries on digital. Make sure she is working with all of
:22:19. > :22:20.those countries that have British pensioners living inside them. It
:22:21. > :22:26.will be a tough job for those officials in Brussels to keep the 27
:22:27. > :22:29.on one page. Let's not forget, Theresa May has her own difficulties
:22:30. > :22:33.at the moment, both on Scotland, which you know well, and Northern
:22:34. > :22:37.Ireland. She is at risk of losing two unions at once if she doesn't
:22:38. > :22:41.keep a good eye on her own backyard. Many thanks for that. Ryan Heath,
:22:42. > :22:52.from a back politico magazine. There were noisy exchanges at PMQs,
:22:53. > :22:57.but the Leader of the Opposition chose to take a different tack. Here
:22:58. > :23:01.is what happened. I want to begin by paying tribute to the emergency
:23:02. > :23:06.services, as the Prime Minister did, across the country, especially all
:23:07. > :23:08.of those that responded to the Westminster attack last Wednesday
:23:09. > :23:12.and to those that turned out to help the victims of the new ferry
:23:13. > :23:17.explosion last Saturday. Our thoughts remain with the injured and
:23:18. > :23:19.those that have lost loved ones, especially thanking the police for
:23:20. > :23:25.their ongoing investigations. Could the Prime Minister assurance that
:23:26. > :23:28.the police will be given all the necessary support and resources to
:23:29. > :23:32.take them through this very difficult period in investigating
:23:33. > :23:36.what happened last Wednesday? I join the Right Honourable Gentleman in
:23:37. > :23:41.praising the work of our emergency services who, as he pointed out,
:23:42. > :23:44.have to deal with a wide range of incidents that took place. Our focus
:23:45. > :23:48.in this house has been most recently on the attack that took place last
:23:49. > :23:51.Wednesday, we should never forget that day in, day out, emergency
:23:52. > :23:54.services are working on our behalf and often putting themselves in
:23:55. > :23:58.danger as a result of the work that they do. I can assure him that I
:23:59. > :24:02.have been keeping in touch, as has my right honourable friend, the Home
:24:03. > :24:07.Secretary, with both security services and the Metropolitan Police
:24:08. > :24:11.on the investigation that is taking place into the attack last week, and
:24:12. > :24:13.looking forward to security arrangements. I can assure him that
:24:14. > :24:20.they have the resources that they need to carry out their vital work.
:24:21. > :24:26.Of course, we all pay tribute to the police for the work that they do.
:24:27. > :24:30.But there are some problems. Between 2015-2018, there will be a real
:24:31. > :24:35.terms cut in central government funding to police forces of ?330
:24:36. > :24:39.million. Can the Prime Minister assure the house that the police all
:24:40. > :24:43.over the country have the necessary resources to do the job? I would
:24:44. > :24:48.remind the Right Honourable Gentleman that what we have done in
:24:49. > :24:53.the CSR is protected that police budget. The former Shadow Home
:24:54. > :25:02.Secretary, his own colleagues, the right Honourable Member for Leigh,
:25:03. > :25:07.prior to the Labour Party Conference, said that savings can be
:25:08. > :25:10.found, and the police said that 5% or 10% is doable. We haven't done
:25:11. > :25:15.that, we have protected the budget. I have been speaking, as the right
:25:16. > :25:18.honourable Home Secretary has, to police forces and they are clear
:25:19. > :25:25.that they have the resources that they need. We associate ourselves
:25:26. > :25:27.with the condolences of the Prime Minister and the leader of the
:25:28. > :25:35.Labour Party, the praise for the emergency and security services
:25:36. > :25:37.during and after the appalling atrocity last week. Last year, the
:25:38. > :25:45.Prime Minister promised that before she would trigger Article 50, she
:25:46. > :25:54.would secure a UK wide approach and agreement...
:25:55. > :26:00.Last year the Prime Minister did make that promise. She promised
:26:01. > :26:02.there would be an agreement with the governments of Scotland, Wales and
:26:03. > :26:08.Northern Ireland before triggering Article 50. The Prime Minister has
:26:09. > :26:14.now triggered Article 50 and she has done so without an agreement. There
:26:15. > :26:21.is no agreement. Why has she broken her promise and broken her word? I
:26:22. > :26:27.have been very clear throughout and since the first visit that I made...
:26:28. > :26:33.Says the first visit I made as Prime Minister to Edinburgh last July,
:26:34. > :26:37.which was that we were going to work with the devolved administrations,
:26:38. > :26:39.that we would develop a UK wide approach, but that in the
:26:40. > :26:44.negotiations it would be a UK approach that was taken into the
:26:45. > :26:47.negotiations and it would be the United Kingdom government that took
:26:48. > :26:51.forward that position. I would simply remind the Right Honourable
:26:52. > :27:01.Gentleman that Scotland is part of the United Kingdom. Watch this
:27:02. > :27:06.space! People will note that the Prime Minister did not deny that she
:27:07. > :27:09.would seek a UK wide approach, an agreement with the governments of
:27:10. > :27:14.Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and that there is no
:27:15. > :27:17.agreement. Mr Speaker, the Scottish Government was elected with a higher
:27:18. > :27:22.percentage of the vote, with a bigger electoral mandate than the UK
:27:23. > :27:30.Government. Yesterday, the Scottish Parliament voted by 69-59 that
:27:31. > :27:34.people in Scotland should have a choice about their future. After the
:27:35. > :27:39.negotiations of the European Union are concluded, there will be a
:27:40. > :27:45.period for democratic approval of the outcome. That choice will be
:27:46. > :27:49.exercised in this Parliament, in the European Parliament and in 27 member
:27:50. > :27:54.states of the European Union. Given that everybody else will have a
:27:55. > :28:05.choice in the matter, will the people of Scotland have a choice? I
:28:06. > :28:08.say to the Right Honourable Gentleman... I say to the Right
:28:09. > :28:13.Honourable Gentleman that we are taking forward the views of the
:28:14. > :28:20.United Kingdom into the negotiations with the European Union, on the
:28:21. > :28:23.United Kingdom Brexiting the European Union. The Scottish
:28:24. > :28:33.Nationalists party consistently talks...
:28:34. > :28:41.Order! Order! This is very unseemly heckling. You are a distinguished
:28:42. > :28:47.QC. You would not heckle like that in the Scottish courts. You would be
:28:48. > :28:52.chucked out! The SNP consistently talks about independence as the only
:28:53. > :28:55.subject they wish to talk about. What I say to the right honourable
:28:56. > :28:59.gentleman and his colleagues is this - now is not the time to be talking
:29:00. > :29:04.about a second independence referendum.
:29:05. > :29:06.Well, let's cross to Westminster now, and our correspondent
:29:07. > :29:14.Thank you, and no prizes for guessing what we are going to be
:29:15. > :29:20.talking about so without further ado, let me introduce my guests,
:29:21. > :29:24.Alistair Carmichael for the Liberal Democrats, an SNP representative,
:29:25. > :29:29.Ian Murray for Labour and a Conservative representative. I will
:29:30. > :29:36.begin with you. The Prime Minister came to the House of Commons and
:29:37. > :29:40.gave a very lengthy statement, and questions as well, but when you boil
:29:41. > :29:45.it down, there was very little real meat, was there? There was a lot of
:29:46. > :29:48.meat and if it were two or three messages she had for the House on
:29:49. > :29:51.the country is that she is the Prime Minister for the whole of the United
:29:52. > :29:55.Kingdom and I've got a copy of the statement here and one thing that
:29:56. > :30:00.she said that touched me, and she said for the first time, actually,
:30:01. > :30:04.she says, "I will represent every person in the whole of the UK and,
:30:05. > :30:12.yes, those EU nationals who have this country their home". I welcomed
:30:13. > :30:15.that message from the Prime Minister and what I would say to those other
:30:16. > :30:20.parties in the House of commons, it's now time to put shoulders to
:30:21. > :30:24.the wheel, make sure we deliver a deal that is in the best interests
:30:25. > :30:28.of Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland. We've got to get a
:30:29. > :30:32.good deal for all of us and for the EU. It's got to be win- when and I
:30:33. > :30:38.believe we can do it but only if we all work together. You mentioned EU
:30:39. > :30:43.nationals living in the UK. Would today not have been an opportune
:30:44. > :30:45.time for her to say, "I've spoken to the president of the European
:30:46. > :30:50.Council and have told him that come what may, their rights will be
:30:51. > :30:54.guaranteed"? Would that not have been, perhaps, an article of faith
:30:55. > :30:57.to make as we begin these negotiation is? I entirely
:30:58. > :31:01.understand that and I had a word with the PM on this very point but
:31:02. > :31:05.what about those Glaswegians, Caledonians, people from Inverness
:31:06. > :31:08.who live in Spain, Italy and France? Who is looking after their
:31:09. > :31:12.interests? This isn't about bargaining chips. The Prime Minister
:31:13. > :31:16.has made it clear time and time again that the top of the agenda
:31:17. > :31:19.right now, now that Article 50 has been delivered, and here's the
:31:20. > :31:23.letter that's been sent today to talk now that this letter's been
:31:24. > :31:26.sent, the first thing that has to be agreed is on the status of EU
:31:27. > :31:31.nationals and that's UK citizens living in the EU and my parents, my
:31:32. > :31:36.sister and other EU nationals living in the UK. I believe that we are
:31:37. > :31:41.going to get this deal but I do ask other parties to help the PM.
:31:42. > :31:43.Do you think there could be a situation whereby before the
:31:44. > :31:48.nitty-gritty of the negotiations gets under way, this point could be
:31:49. > :31:53.sorted? I think there is probably unanimity amongst you that you want
:31:54. > :31:58.this sorted. It could be sorted and I did think that the speech that
:31:59. > :32:01.Donald Tusk gave when he received the letter today did but a very
:32:02. > :32:06.conciliatory tone. I thought the tone was right and he said
:32:07. > :32:10.negotiations should start from the right perspective. But the PM's
:32:11. > :32:13.statement in the House was completely and utterly vacuous. It
:32:14. > :32:16.was a wish list of things the Prime Minister once and if you do still
:32:17. > :32:19.the wish list down, you come to the conclusion that you should be a
:32:20. > :32:23.member of the European Union. We can't have that now, we've triggered
:32:24. > :32:28.Article 50. I agree with Alberto to a certain extent it up we have to
:32:29. > :32:31.work together to get the best possible deal. This triggering has
:32:32. > :32:35.meant the bus to leave the EU has left the station and we have to be
:32:36. > :32:38.on it told the government to account, to make sure parliament is
:32:39. > :32:43.involved, the public in bold in this process and to make sure we are
:32:44. > :32:46.looking at the interests of the sectors and businesses across
:32:47. > :32:51.Scotland and the UK and we have to get this off the table. Let's
:32:52. > :32:56.venture EU nationals in the UK have their rights respected. We can then
:32:57. > :33:02.take that off the in tray and talk about other issues and that is what
:33:03. > :33:10.important. Constructive working with all the parties, to show that the UK
:33:11. > :33:13.is speaking with one voice? We think we should have a differentiating
:33:14. > :33:18.deal for Scotland and we have in clear about that and play that out
:33:19. > :33:21.before Christmas. The Prime Minister promised she would come to an accord
:33:22. > :33:24.with the countries within the UK before triggering this and she
:33:25. > :33:26.hasn't done that. In fairness, the UK Government has written to the
:33:27. > :33:32.Scottish Government, responding to the White Paper. After the
:33:33. > :33:35.triggering of Article 50, it's a bit late now. In terms of what we were
:33:36. > :33:39.talking about a round fighting for the best deal, if you like, we will
:33:40. > :33:43.continue to do what we've been doing the House of Commons, which is
:33:44. > :33:49.highlighting those areas we don't think the UK Government has noticed,
:33:50. > :33:52.has enough expertise in. We will be talking about fishing, farming, the
:33:53. > :33:55.local communities and the impact on them that Brexiters going to have if
:33:56. > :33:59.the Prime Minister doesn't do her utmost to get this right. I don't
:34:00. > :34:03.have a huge amount of faith in her abilities to get this right, however
:34:04. > :34:07.I will continue to make that case and continue to support our
:34:08. > :34:11.communities. Alistair Carmichael, you've worked with Theresa May in
:34:12. > :34:15.government. I think you might subscribe to the Ken Clarke theory
:34:16. > :34:18.that she is quite determined and sometimes a bit stubborn. Is she
:34:19. > :34:24.tough and stubborn enough to get a good deal from the UK? The
:34:25. > :34:27.relationship was always a challenging one between Liberal
:34:28. > :34:31.Democrats and Theresa May and nothing has changed in that regard.
:34:32. > :34:37.She has started to talk the language of unity but she is still practising
:34:38. > :34:42.the politics of division. She's still talking about taking us out of
:34:43. > :34:45.the single market, taking us out of the customs union, and she's talking
:34:46. > :34:52.about the possibility was walking away no deal. That is her agenda. I
:34:53. > :34:57.have to say, any talk of cross-party working is absolutely meaningless
:34:58. > :35:02.because there is nothing, I suspect, that any of the three of us can work
:35:03. > :35:06.with Theresa May or any other Conservative on if she is prepared
:35:07. > :35:09.to go into the negotiations with that frame of mind and possibly to
:35:10. > :35:15.walk away with no deal, because, believe me, for the farmers and
:35:16. > :35:20.fishermen of Shetland and Orkney, for the financial services companies
:35:21. > :35:23.in Edinburgh, probably for the oil companies of Aberdeen, no deal would
:35:24. > :35:28.be the worst possible deal that we could have. Let's move on to an
:35:29. > :35:31.associated point, and it will fall into the negotiation is. She has
:35:32. > :35:36.said now is not the time for a second independence referendum.
:35:37. > :35:39.Yesterday, the UK Government in response of the Scottish Parliament
:35:40. > :35:43.vote basically said the process has to be completed and that may
:35:44. > :35:48.including cementation, pushing its own way into the future. She cannot
:35:49. > :35:51.back down on that now, can she, particularly as she is going into
:35:52. > :35:55.negotiations with the EU? If they see her back down on something like
:35:56. > :35:57.that, they will think she is fair game. A second independence
:35:58. > :36:01.referendum in Scotland is possibly one of the few things you could do
:36:02. > :36:06.that would make this very difficult situation even worse. I have to say,
:36:07. > :36:13.as somebody who is passionate about the UK's place as part of the EU, we
:36:14. > :36:19.voted yes in June last year to us remaining part of the European
:36:20. > :36:23.Union, I kind of resent my support for Europe now being used by the SNP
:36:24. > :36:27.as a tool to break up the United Kingdom when they are not even
:36:28. > :36:32.prepared to tell us whether we would be back in the EU if they get their
:36:33. > :36:35.way ultimately in-out referendum. It is not a trigger for a second
:36:36. > :36:38.independence referendum, it's the excuse that they had been looking
:36:39. > :36:45.for since the 19th of September 2014. In the act of unity, why don't
:36:46. > :36:48.you accept what Theresa May has said, there will be no second
:36:49. > :36:53.independence referendum until Brexit is complete, and then you and the
:36:54. > :36:58.rest of the MPC can get on with the process of securing the best deal
:36:59. > :37:04.for the UK? We have a mandate for a second independence referendum. The
:37:05. > :37:07.manifesto are parties to the last year clearly said that in this very
:37:08. > :37:13.eventuality we were told an independence referendum all reserve
:37:14. > :37:16.the right to hold on. There was a higher vote for us in the Scottish
:37:17. > :37:22.Parliament than Theresa May got in 2015, the Scottish Parliament have
:37:23. > :37:25.voted 69 to 59 in order to support the section 30 agreement. The
:37:26. > :37:28.Scottish people have got to have the opportunity to have a choice.
:37:29. > :37:34.Parliaments across Europe will have a choice about whether this happens.
:37:35. > :37:39.The Scottish the budget have that choice. We promised it in our
:37:40. > :37:42.manifesto. Is talk of a second referendum money mental destruction
:37:43. > :37:46.to what we are about to undergo? It is not just a monument mental
:37:47. > :37:49.destruction but hugely damaging to the Scottish economy. None of us
:37:50. > :37:55.have any answers for the previous question about what Brexiters going
:37:56. > :37:58.to look like. To compound that with another upheaval is a dereliction of
:37:59. > :38:05.duty. We should be trying to make sure we get the best possible deal
:38:06. > :38:08.of our constituents in the sectors, financial services and higher
:38:09. > :38:12.education being two in my constituency, and to go down this
:38:13. > :38:18.route of a trigger on a second independence referendum is a
:38:19. > :38:22.dereliction of governing the country. There is a key point here,
:38:23. > :38:27.what we are being offered now, if the SNP get their way, is the UK
:38:28. > :38:30.coming out of the EU, which would mean that Scotland, if it went
:38:31. > :38:36.independent, would be out of the UK and the EU, that is the worst of all
:38:37. > :38:40.odds. I echo Ian's points. Of the SNP got their way, it would be out
:38:41. > :38:46.of the EU, out of the UK and viewers ought to be reminded that 400,000
:38:47. > :38:50.SNP voters voted to leave the EU. It is not as if all the SNP voters in
:38:51. > :38:55.Scotland wanted to stay in the EU so let's be honest about this. The
:38:56. > :38:58.people of Scotland don't want another referendum. Let's just get
:38:59. > :39:04.on, let's get a good deal that is the interests of Britain and of the
:39:05. > :39:08.that's what we all want. We have to leave it there. Thank you all very
:39:09. > :39:12.much. I was about to say, we will no doubt return to this subject next
:39:13. > :39:16.week and then I realised that Westminster is in recess but, fear
:39:17. > :39:21.not, Scottish independence and Brexit - we will return to it! Back
:39:22. > :39:23.to you. We will be back for years to come, I
:39:24. > :39:24.suspect. Hamish Macdonell from
:39:25. > :39:30.the Times is still with me. Let's have a look at some of the
:39:31. > :39:34.issues that will have to be negotiated because there is a lot
:39:35. > :39:42.there. There is the fate of EU nationals here, British expats, as
:39:43. > :39:46.we call them, across on the continent, there is money, trade,
:39:47. > :39:49.all sorts of things. It's difficult to see a single area where there
:39:50. > :39:53.aren't going to be sticking points. Even in something like trade, there
:39:54. > :39:57.is this impression it is all to do with cars and big practical goods
:39:58. > :40:02.like that but most of the trade that is done is of an invisible nature -
:40:03. > :40:06.financial services, look at the city of Edinburgh and the amount of trade
:40:07. > :40:09.the financial services companies do there with Europe. All that sort of
:40:10. > :40:16.thing has to be ironed out at the sticking points are immense. That's
:40:17. > :40:20.one thing which the EU want to try to resolve right at the start. They
:40:21. > :40:24.want to try and work out what the divorce bill is going to be and
:40:25. > :40:28.there has been talk of ?60 billion. The UK Government are not going to
:40:29. > :40:32.want to go near that. That negotiation in itself could be
:40:33. > :40:35.locked for weeks, months, and that's just the very first thing before we
:40:36. > :40:37.get into trade so it is difficult to see how this is going to go well.
:40:38. > :40:40.Hamish, stay with us. Yesterday, the delayed
:40:41. > :40:42.debate on holding a second Scottish independence referendum
:40:43. > :40:43.took place in Holyrood. After offering condolences
:40:44. > :40:46.and support to those caught up in last week's Westminster attack,
:40:47. > :41:01.MSPs got underway, here's a taste My argument is simply this. The
:41:02. > :41:06.nature of the change that is made inevitable by Brexit becomes clear.
:41:07. > :41:12.That change should not be imposed upon us. We should have the right to
:41:13. > :41:16.decide the nature of that change. The Prime Minister was clear with me
:41:17. > :41:20.yesterday that she intends the terms of Brexit, both the exit terms and
:41:21. > :41:25.the UK's future relationship with the EU, to be known before the UK
:41:26. > :41:29.leaves and in time for ratification by other EU countries. In other
:41:30. > :41:34.words, sometime between the autumn of next year and the spring of 2019.
:41:35. > :41:38.Let me be clear - I want the UK to get a good deal from these
:41:39. > :41:42.negotiations because whatever path Scotland chooses to take on the
:41:43. > :41:47.future, that is in our interests. I simply want Scotland to have a
:41:48. > :41:52.choice when the time is right. So I hope the UK Government will respect
:41:53. > :41:56.the will of this Parliament. If it does so, I will enter discussions in
:41:57. > :42:00.good faith and with a willingness to compromise. However, if it chooses
:42:01. > :42:04.not to do so, I will return to the parliament following the Easter
:42:05. > :42:08.recess to set up the steps that the Scottish Government will take to
:42:09. > :42:11.progress the will of Parliament. First of all, she should be aware
:42:12. > :42:15.that even her own colleagues don't share her view. As Alex Neil stated
:42:16. > :42:18.last week, or may not be done and dusted by March 2019 and the
:42:19. > :42:22.timetable for a trade deal could extend beyond that day. I refer the
:42:23. > :42:27.First Minister to that leading authority on all things European,
:42:28. > :42:32.Joe McAlpine, who said in January - I won't do the accent - there is no
:42:33. > :42:37.way a trade agreement will be put in place within two years. That is
:42:38. > :42:40.completely unrealistic. Can I ask Ruth Davidson a specific question.
:42:41. > :42:44.The Primus said clearly to me yesterday that it is her intention
:42:45. > :42:51.for the terms and the competence of trade deal to be agreed before March
:42:52. > :42:55.2019. Can I take from Ruth Davidson's, today the two things I
:42:56. > :42:58.should mistrust the word of the Prime Minister? What I find
:42:59. > :43:01.remarkable is that the Prime Minister has been absolutely clear
:43:02. > :43:04.time after time, question after question, in the media, as a
:43:05. > :43:10.statement, in the House of Commons, to say that now was not the time but
:43:11. > :43:14.it will take time to see a deal bed in but what I can't believe is that
:43:15. > :43:17.the one person she dug into her trust was the First Minister who has
:43:18. > :43:23.been trying to derail this from the very beginning and in a one-to-one
:43:24. > :43:27.meeting, she is the only person who could make Theresa May change her
:43:28. > :43:31.mind, and she is not a woman known for changing her mind, was Nicola
:43:32. > :43:37.Sturgeon who could not wait to run out to the bank of microphones to
:43:38. > :43:42.tell all about it. I won't take any lessons from the First Minister
:43:43. > :43:47.because, actually, sit down, nothing changed yesterday. I have answered
:43:48. > :43:52.the First Minister's Grimson -- question. I will not take another
:43:53. > :43:55.intervention. "Yes" vote's meeting between the Prime Minister and the
:43:56. > :44:00.First Minister summed up where we are in this country today, two in
:44:01. > :44:08.transient leaders. In the week since we last met, issues which are
:44:09. > :44:11.normally dominated our newspapers have been buried in the back. We
:44:12. > :44:14.have learned that the SNP has abandoned a promise to reduce the
:44:15. > :44:19.working hours of junior doctors, a promise made by the former First
:44:20. > :44:25.Minister to the parents of a woman who lost her life. We have seen a
:44:26. > :44:29.damning report into the quality of child and adolescent mental health
:44:30. > :44:33.services and it has been confirmed that cancer waiting time targets
:44:34. > :44:38.have not been met the four years. Each of these three issues
:44:39. > :44:41.constitutes an individual scandal. Together, they represent a complete
:44:42. > :44:45.abdication of responsibility but we are not discussing any of these
:44:46. > :44:50.things. After all, why would the government responsible for the NHS
:44:51. > :44:53.want to debate its 10-year record on health service? Not when there is
:44:54. > :45:00.another independence debate to be had. The Scottish Green Party is not
:45:01. > :45:04.a nationalist party. We are Greens and our politics is decentralised,
:45:05. > :45:09.autonomous, confederal list and cooperative. We stood on a manifesto
:45:10. > :45:14.that outlined ideas to deepen and strengthen democracy. One of these
:45:15. > :45:19.proposals was for a more open and participatory lawmaking progress --
:45:20. > :45:22.process in which citizens could trigger a vote on issues of the
:45:23. > :45:27.Scottish Parliament. We highlighted that this was our preferred way of
:45:28. > :45:30.deciding to hold a second referendum but, contrary to much misreporting,
:45:31. > :45:35.it is not the only means by which we would vote in favour of another
:45:36. > :45:38.referendum. The two clearest indications of the will of the
:45:39. > :45:43.electorate today have been the independence referendum vote in 2014
:45:44. > :45:47.and Scotland's Remain vote in 2016. They are clearly incompatible with a
:45:48. > :45:50.further choice and our party remains as committed as we always have been
:45:51. > :45:56.to autonomy, self-government, independence and can federalism. The
:45:57. > :45:59.decision to withdraw from Europe broke my heart but as an
:46:00. > :46:02.internationalist, my response could never be too up sticks from the one
:46:03. > :46:06.union of nations I have left and instead I choose to stay, to resist
:46:07. > :46:12.Brexit and then to fight every election thereafter on a platform of
:46:13. > :46:17.re-entry to the EU. There is no comfort for ardent Europeans in the
:46:18. > :46:25.current vacillation of the SNP. Will he give way? I will, to Tom Arthur.
:46:26. > :46:36.Liberal Democrats have been fighting on a platform of Federal Reserve is
:46:37. > :46:42.on for over a century. I thank him for his intervention. My party has
:46:43. > :46:45.been fighting a lost cause as all of my life but I will achieve this one.
:46:46. > :46:48.Well, the debate continued for some time after Mr Cole-Hamilton outed
:46:49. > :46:55.himself and his party as a fighter for lost causes
:46:56. > :46:59.the SNP securing a win with the help of the Greens.
:47:00. > :47:01.Well, let's talk to some MSPs right now.
:47:02. > :47:04.Liam Kerr is from the Scottish Conservatives.
:47:05. > :47:05.For Scottish Labour we have Lewis Macdonald.
:47:06. > :47:07.John Finnie is from the Scottish Greens.
:47:08. > :47:18.And Liam Macarthur is from the Scottish Liberal Democrats.
:47:19. > :47:24.But Kate Forbes, you've made your position clear in the Scottish
:47:25. > :47:27.Parliament. You want a referendum on independence but we know what
:47:28. > :47:32.Theresa May has to say about that, it's not going to happen. What do
:47:33. > :47:38.you do now? At the moment, Theresa May's position is completely
:47:39. > :47:41.unsustainable because she is saying that we will know the detail of the
:47:42. > :47:46.Brexit negotiations in 200 years and so we could make a decision about
:47:47. > :47:58.Scotland's future in two years. Last night the Scottish Parliament spoke
:47:59. > :48:04.and a majority of SNP is -- SNPs -- MSPs backed it. This call for a
:48:05. > :48:07.referendum must be responded to. She is going to do that in her own good
:48:08. > :48:11.time and it is not going to be within the time frame Nicola
:48:12. > :48:16.Sturgeon has a nine. You have options now, but it you could, for
:48:17. > :48:18.example, coal-fired and advisory referendum on independence. If you
:48:19. > :48:23.think that is what the people of Scotland want, why not do that now?
:48:24. > :48:26.We just returned the vote last night with a majority of pro-independence
:48:27. > :48:32.MSPs in the Scottish Parliament. It is now very much in Theresa May's
:48:33. > :48:35.court to decide how to respond but to disagree and ignore the cause of
:48:36. > :48:39.the people of Scotland for another referendum, I think would show
:48:40. > :48:45.absolute disdain for the sovereignty of the Scottish people. You can see
:48:46. > :48:49.why she might be sceptical about the time frame that Nicola Sturgeon has
:48:50. > :48:55.set out because we know that these negotiations will not get under way
:48:56. > :49:00.until after the German elections this autumn, in substance. There is
:49:01. > :49:07.a lot to talk about, an awful lot to wrangle about. It is hard to see how
:49:08. > :49:12.a deal can be done by the spring of 2019, as you might like. It might
:49:13. > :49:15.surprise you that I have to take the primaries on her word and she said
:49:16. > :49:19.quite clearly, and again in her letter today, that she intends to
:49:20. > :49:23.negotiate the divorce and that the relationship over the course of the
:49:24. > :49:27.next two years. So within the next two years, we will know what the
:49:28. > :49:30.Brexit deal is and we will know what its impact will be on Scotland and
:49:31. > :49:33.so it is only right that we make sure that the people of Scotland
:49:34. > :49:40.have the opportunity to decide what our future is. Our future should be
:49:41. > :49:45.in our hands. Liam curve from the Conservatives, that letter has now
:49:46. > :49:49.been handed over to the European Union, confirming that Brexit is
:49:50. > :49:54.finally happening. When can we expect to see that ?350 million a
:49:55. > :49:59.week for the NHS across the UK which Boris Johnson promised? I think,
:50:00. > :50:02.actually, that question isn't really relevant to what we're talking about
:50:03. > :50:05.today. What we are talking about is the vote yesterday the Scottish
:50:06. > :50:11.Parliament tom in which the Scottish Parliament decided, in an advisory
:50:12. > :50:16.vote, but it wanted to seek permission to have another
:50:17. > :50:19.independence referendum. I made the point that it was an advisory and I
:50:20. > :50:22.think this is a very important thing to say because Nicola Sturgeon talks
:50:23. > :50:29.about having a mandate to run another independence separation
:50:30. > :50:33.campaign. There is no mandate there. The Scottish Parliament has voted on
:50:34. > :50:36.five separate occasions against the Scottish Government and the Scottish
:50:37. > :50:39.Government on five separate occasions has chosen to ignore the
:50:40. > :50:44.Scottish Parliament. During the Brexit campaign, senior
:50:45. > :50:47.Conservatives, including Boris Johnson and Liam Fox and Iain Duncan
:50:48. > :50:51.Smith were very clear there was going to be lots more money for the
:50:52. > :50:55.health service in the event Brexit. But these promises have been
:50:56. > :51:00.scrapped. You could see why the SNP are angry, can't you? You can see
:51:01. > :51:04.why many voters in Scotland actually feel betrayed by the Brexiteers.
:51:05. > :51:10.What many voters in Scotland feel is that they don't want another
:51:11. > :51:14.referendum. Poll after poll has said no, not now, and we've seen that
:51:15. > :51:18.time and again and that is what we've tried to represent. What the
:51:19. > :51:20.people of Scotland want now, actually, is for the Scottish
:51:21. > :51:25.Government to get on with doing the job was elected do. That has the
:51:26. > :51:31.power to sort out the Scottish NHS over to sort out the Scottish
:51:32. > :51:34.education system, the police, any other area that you wish to name.
:51:35. > :51:39.The Scottish Parliament has the power to do some thing about it. It
:51:40. > :51:41.is not doing anything about it because it would far rather put up
:51:42. > :51:46.more flags for another divisive referendum that no one actually
:51:47. > :51:52.wants, not now. Let's return to that in a moment. Lewis Macdonald, from
:51:53. > :51:57.Labour, Scottish voters might be confused about what your party
:51:58. > :52:02.stands for here, because Jeremy Corbyn didn't want to block Article
:52:03. > :52:06.50. Told his MPs not to block it. He doesn't want second referendum on
:52:07. > :52:11.the result of these negotiations, even if there is the hardest of hard
:52:12. > :52:15.Brexit. Does Labour have any meaningful role in this process? We
:52:16. > :52:20.could hardly have been clearer in the debate in Parliament yesterday
:52:21. > :52:24.in what Kezia Dugdale had to say. Theresa May is promising to conclude
:52:25. > :52:28.Brexit negotiations in two years. That is whistling in the wind.
:52:29. > :52:31.Nicola Sturgeon, and we heard Kate Forbes do it again today, says that
:52:32. > :52:35.Theresa May is the ultimate authority on how long these talks
:52:36. > :52:41.will take. That is just not true. Every expert within Europe and
:52:42. > :52:43.Britain, we heard the former UK representative to Brussels, saying
:52:44. > :52:49.there is not the slightest chance of competing Brexit negotiations in two
:52:50. > :52:53.years. He reckons, and he says people in Brussels reckon, that it
:52:54. > :52:57.will be into the mid 2020ss so it is a complete fallacy to suggest that
:52:58. > :53:02.we will know in two years what the offer is on Brexit. That will not be
:53:03. > :53:06.the case. SNP ministers have been asked time and again over the last
:53:07. > :53:11.few weeks what the offer would be on independence, how the fiscal deficit
:53:12. > :53:16.would be addressed, whether it would apply to join the EU and it has not
:53:17. > :53:19.been able to answer any of these questions. Labour's job is to hold
:53:20. > :53:22.both governments to account and it is clear both governments need
:53:23. > :53:25.holding to account because the people of Scotland have already
:53:26. > :53:28.voted on the issue of leaving the UK and they said they did not want to
:53:29. > :53:34.do that. You talk about holding them to account but how can Jeremy Corbyn
:53:35. > :53:39.do that if he doesn't give the impression that leaving the EU is a
:53:40. > :53:42.terribly bad thing? If you look at, and I'm sure you will have looked
:53:43. > :53:48.at, the six tests that Labour set for Brexit this week, Labour have
:53:49. > :53:52.said that we want to see a Brexit deal that protect the vital
:53:53. > :53:58.interests of Britain and we have made a number of critical areas in
:53:59. > :54:04.which that has to happen. Our job is to hold the UK Government to account
:54:05. > :54:07.it up Kate Forbes is entitled to make points around the sovereignty
:54:08. > :54:10.of the people and we don't dispute the sovereignty of the people. The
:54:11. > :54:14.people of Scotland do not want another independence referendum. I
:54:15. > :54:21.asked both Nicola Sturgeon and Patrick Harvie in this debate, what
:54:22. > :54:24.evidence there was the people wanted it and they could offer none and we
:54:25. > :54:30.although the people of Scotland do not want a referendum. I'm squeezed
:54:31. > :54:35.four-time. Let's bring in John from the Scottish Greens. I wonder, John,
:54:36. > :54:40.is leaving the EU really such a disaster to your voters? It is a big
:54:41. > :54:49.market, it is a trading arrangement. Is that really something that Green
:54:50. > :54:53.voters will weep about? The Greens are an outward looking,
:54:54. > :54:57.internationalist party but I think England, Scotland is an island in
:54:58. > :55:03.the UK should grieve about with the EU. There is no suggestion that we
:55:04. > :55:08.will be leaving the single market and you put a question earlier on to
:55:09. > :55:12.Liam about ?350 a week, well, Scotland would like its share of
:55:13. > :55:16.that for the NHS. So that was a very poor debate that was had in relation
:55:17. > :55:21.to the exit from the EU and did people change their minds? Most
:55:22. > :55:24.certainly, Theresa May has. You have sided with the SNP. You said you
:55:25. > :55:27.weren't internationalist, Confederate party and actually, you
:55:28. > :55:33.are lining up to vote with a nationalist party did is odd, isn't
:55:34. > :55:36.it? Not at all. We want decisions made in Scotland that aren't being
:55:37. > :55:40.made in Scotland at the moment, just as we would want more local autonomy
:55:41. > :55:44.and decision making, so it is entirely consistent with the
:55:45. > :55:47.position that the party has had since 1990, as was eloquently laid
:55:48. > :55:50.out by my colleague in the chamber yesterday. Let's bring in Liam
:55:51. > :55:58.McArthur from the Scottish Liberal Democrats. I wonder, have you given
:55:59. > :56:02.up, then, on your dream of UK in the European Union? Is that still
:56:03. > :56:06.something that you want to achieve with another referendum? Where do
:56:07. > :56:10.you stand now? Absolutely not. I think the Liberal Democrats are the
:56:11. > :56:13.one main party which is unequivocally on the side of the
:56:14. > :56:18.majority of people in Scotland. We want Scotland to remain part of the
:56:19. > :56:22.UK and the UK to remain part of the EU. There was no getting away from
:56:23. > :56:25.the fact that the folk last June was a devastating blow for those of us
:56:26. > :56:30.who believe in our role within the EU but we need to accept that
:56:31. > :56:35.result. What it was, though, was a decision to enter into negotiations
:56:36. > :56:39.about Brexit. What it wasn't was a mandate to negotiate the sort of
:56:40. > :56:41.hard Brexit Theresa May appears intent on negotiating and,
:56:42. > :56:46.ultimately, it is not for politicians to determine whether or
:56:47. > :56:49.not the deal that is struck with our European partners is acceptable and
:56:50. > :56:54.in accordance with that vote last June, it is up to the people, and we
:56:55. > :57:00.believe the British people need an opportunity to reflect on what has
:57:01. > :57:04.been negotiated and cast their vote accordingly. There we must leave it.
:57:05. > :57:08.Thank you all very much. Let's get a final word from Hamish. That
:57:09. > :57:11.underlines the fact that this issue is not settled. The Lib Dems want
:57:12. > :57:17.another referendum to reverse the whole process. None of these things
:57:18. > :57:22.are going to be settled for years. We have no idea what is going to
:57:23. > :57:25.happen next. One of the nice things, actually, is that both parliaments
:57:26. > :57:29.are now going into recess for a couple of weeks and let everybody
:57:30. > :57:32.take stock. Here in Scotland, we know that when we come back from the
:57:33. > :57:35.Easter recess, Nicola Sturgeon has said she will become into the
:57:36. > :57:40.Scottish Parliament and laying out the steps that she is next going to
:57:41. > :57:43.take to try to keep fighting for an independence referendum. So, yes, we
:57:44. > :57:48.are going to have a break for Easter but it will start when we get back.
:57:49. > :57:50.Let's talk about those tactics. The SNP are ruling out an advisory
:57:51. > :57:55.referendum, so it seems at this point in time. What options do they
:57:56. > :58:04.have? By Basie MPs resigning en masse? They could try to force
:58:05. > :58:09.another Scottish election. -- might they see. They could get a fresh
:58:10. > :58:12.mandate to say, we want an independence referendum. I think
:58:13. > :58:15.that is unlikely. You could see mass resignations of the Westminster MPs
:58:16. > :58:18.but I think that is unlikely because I think the patience of voters has
:58:19. > :58:22.been somewhat tested and how they will react to the SNP, I don't know.
:58:23. > :58:25.I think it is much more likely we will get little Parliamentary
:58:26. > :58:29.symbolic moves to keep the issue up there and if the Brexit negotiations
:58:30. > :58:33.go badly, I think at that point the SNP will really start to crank up
:58:34. > :58:35.the pressure on the UK Government. There we must leave it. Thank you
:58:36. > :58:37.very much indeed for that. We're taking a break for Easter
:58:38. > :58:40.but Politics Scotland FMQs is tomorrow at midday
:58:41. > :58:47.on BBC Two Scotland. One man had the vision to take
:58:48. > :59:20.inspiration from the ancient and create buildings that were
:59:21. > :59:24.the envy of the world.