:00:18. > :00:21.Hello and welcome to Politics Scotland. Coming upon the programme,
:00:21. > :00:27.businesses are concerned they will lose their discount on empty
:00:27. > :00:31.properties. MSPs are due to vote on it this afternoon. The big debate
:00:31. > :00:35.over proposals to cut the drink- drive limit. We were here concerns
:00:35. > :00:39.it could divert police attention from serious offenders.
:00:39. > :00:43.Here at Westminster, reaction to the report from the former Tory
:00:43. > :00:49.Cabinet minister Lord Heseltine calling on the UK Government to do
:00:49. > :00:52.more to boost growth in the economy. Plans to reduce the discount on
:00:52. > :00:57.business rates which applies to empty properties are likely to be
:00:57. > :01:01.passed at Holyrood this afternoon. Businesses are opposed to the move,
:01:01. > :01:07.but ministers say they cannot subsidise empty shops. To discuss
:01:07. > :01:11.this I am joined by politics and economics commentator, Alf Young.
:01:11. > :01:16.Let's look at this issue first of all. Businesses are concerned and
:01:17. > :01:20.we will look at it in more detail in his second. Why are they so
:01:20. > :01:25.worried? It's about time for commercial
:01:25. > :01:29.property, you see it in every high street, all over the country in a
:01:29. > :01:34.lot of places, places up for lease and rent. The government thinks
:01:34. > :01:37.that if it goes on subsidising, because they get a 50 per cent
:01:37. > :01:42.reduction in rates on the property while it is empty, if they stopped
:01:42. > :01:46.doing that, it might persuade more owners of properties to drop the
:01:46. > :01:52.level of rent they are looking for and get some stimulus back into the
:01:52. > :01:56.economy. In any case, as you said, they are saying you cannot go on
:01:56. > :02:01.subsidising this. They are proposing to reduce the subsidy
:02:01. > :02:05.from 50 per cent to 10 per cent. They are choosing to go to 10 per
:02:05. > :02:10.cent. More on that in a moment. Another big issue to be debated
:02:10. > :02:14.tomorrow is the drink-drive limit. The Scottish government wants to
:02:14. > :02:21.reduce it to an amount which could put people over the limit easily if
:02:21. > :02:26.they have had just one pint and are rather low body weight. They want
:02:26. > :02:31.to reduce it from 80 millilitres to 50, which brings it down to where
:02:31. > :02:37.even a glass of wine or one pint of beer makes it dodgy, where the
:02:37. > :02:41.would be over or under the limit. Kenny MacAskill is wanting to go
:02:41. > :02:44.further than that and have more random tests so you don't
:02:44. > :02:49.necessarily have a suspicion that somebody is drinking and driving to
:02:49. > :02:55.be able to test them. He also wants more to do with younger drivers,
:02:55. > :03:01.because we know younger drivers are likely to cause road accidents when
:03:01. > :03:05.they first start driving. But it is contentious, and I think the
:03:05. > :03:11.industry and lots of other people will think it is too draconian.
:03:11. > :03:15.Thank you for that just now. As we briefly discussed, proposals to
:03:15. > :03:20.reduce business rates will be voted on at Holyrood. Cameron Buttle has
:03:20. > :03:26.more details. This business park is a couple of
:03:26. > :03:28.miles outside could Caldy. It was built to take advantage of
:03:29. > :03:33.development plans for the area, but that was before the financial crash,
:03:33. > :03:37.and for the past four years, they have been trying to rent the
:03:37. > :03:41.office-based, but most of it is still empty. At the moment, this
:03:41. > :03:46.place is running at a loss. Every empty room here costs money,
:03:46. > :03:50.and it could be about to cost a lot more. This room gets a 50 per cent
:03:50. > :03:56.rate discount. The Scottish government wants to reduce that to
:03:56. > :04:00.10 per cent. At the moment it costs us about �160,000 a year just to
:04:00. > :04:05.open the doors and run the centre at current occupancy levels. We are
:04:05. > :04:10.current remit -- currently running at a loss of �12,000 a year, so if
:04:10. > :04:14.you add �30,000 to that, it is quite a worry. The idea is to
:04:14. > :04:17.encourage business to open up, particularly on the high street.
:04:17. > :04:20.The Scottish government cannot maintain a position where we are
:04:20. > :04:23.subsidising people to keep properties closed when we need to
:04:23. > :04:27.be regenerating communities and tackling the blight on the High
:04:27. > :04:33.Street. Critics say this is a tax hike imposed on a vital sector at
:04:33. > :04:37.the worst time. This will hammer businesses with a whopping tax hike
:04:37. > :04:42.at a time when the economy is struggling and businesses can't
:04:42. > :04:46.afford it. It will not bring empty properties back onto the market.
:04:46. > :04:50.The proposed changes would affect industrial factories, charities or
:04:50. > :04:54.listed buildings. The Bill will be debated in the Scottish Parliament
:04:54. > :04:58.this afternoon. Let's discuss this issue further
:04:58. > :05:02.work Amy Dalrymple of the Scottish Chambers of Commerce, and Susan
:05:02. > :05:12.Bree from Aberdeen Business Improvement District. Good
:05:12. > :05:15.afternoon tea at both. Amy, why do you think the government should
:05:15. > :05:19.subsidise empty properties? Landlords don't need an incentive
:05:19. > :05:24.to let properties. That is the bottom line. They are business
:05:24. > :05:27.people and many are chamber members. They want to get properties let out.
:05:27. > :05:31.They don't have empty properties sitting there but they are sitting
:05:31. > :05:35.on because they are collecting a subsidy from the Scottish
:05:35. > :05:41.government. What will actually happen is that a Scottish
:05:41. > :05:50.government is proposing to levy an extra tax on landlords, and it will
:05:50. > :05:55.actually take money out of town centres when we needed their. --
:05:55. > :06:00.need it there. It is crucial time for town centres. They are a-
:06:00. > :06:03.changing, the way spaces used is changing. It is very difficult, a
:06:04. > :06:08.time of change and economic difficulty, and the Scottish
:06:08. > :06:11.government is just putting more tax on business. Susan Bree, we heard
:06:12. > :06:15.businesses would suffer, but your broadly supportive of this and you
:06:15. > :06:21.are in the business of promoting business. How do you square that
:06:21. > :06:25.circle? I think what Amy is saying is correct in that no landlord or
:06:25. > :06:30.property of the once a building to stay vacant, and they do try really
:06:30. > :06:36.hard, but this Bill will give landlords and property and has more
:06:36. > :06:39.incentive to try harder. There are many vacant premises, and landlords
:06:39. > :06:47.who were just not available for stake holder engagement, so it
:06:47. > :06:50.might encourage landlords to come forward and speak to businesses.
:06:50. > :06:54.Business improvement districts are set up to help alleviate this
:06:54. > :07:00.problem, and we want to know what we can do, often -- offer mentoring
:07:00. > :07:04.services, get banks involved, there are all sorts of things we could do.
:07:04. > :07:07.Amy Dalrymple, it is an encouragement to business. I am
:07:07. > :07:11.staggered that they is a perception about whether this is in the
:07:11. > :07:14.business community or the Scottish government, that landlord somehow
:07:14. > :07:19.to not want to let out their properties and are not doing
:07:19. > :07:22.everything they can to get these properties let. There is a problem
:07:22. > :07:27.in our town centres that the Scottish government has recognised.
:07:27. > :07:32.It has set up its own town centre regeneration group and recognises
:07:32. > :07:39.that there are complex issues underlying this. It is not just
:07:39. > :07:44.about whether a landlord actually has explored all the avenues, as
:07:44. > :07:47.was being discussed by Susan there. Susan's body is very welcome in
:07:47. > :07:52.terms of the support they can provide to landlords, but believe
:07:52. > :07:56.me, landlords are doing their best. They are business people and what
:07:56. > :08:02.businesses to survive, which means getting tenancy and property is let
:08:02. > :08:06.out. Susan, it sets out a difficult situation. Union Street in Aberdeen
:08:06. > :08:12.has many empty properties and business -- business is going to
:08:12. > :08:16.the retail parks in the city. How can we encourage people to go into
:08:16. > :08:21.empty places but charge them even more? The bottom line is that one
:08:21. > :08:25.size doesn't fit all. They isn't one solution for every city and
:08:25. > :08:29.every town. You must look at each one individually. Where are the
:08:29. > :08:33.gaps? What economic impacts need to change in the High Street? You are
:08:33. > :08:39.right, where and why are they moving and what is missing. That is
:08:39. > :08:44.when Aberdeen business improvement districts can help landlords search
:08:44. > :08:47.for tenants moving forward and bring in new businesses. I am not
:08:47. > :08:52.saying they don't try hard enough but the bottom line is that if this
:08:52. > :08:58.bid is successful, they will have to try harder. What we need to do
:08:58. > :09:02.is help them in this search and get them into these premises. Be on
:09:02. > :09:07.just that, we need to look at the bigger picture. What businesses are
:09:07. > :09:12.coming, how come we support them? The good news of this Bill is the
:09:12. > :09:16.fresh Start aspect. We cannot take our eye off it, 50 per cent rates
:09:16. > :09:20.for 12 months for anyone coming into the premises, this is an
:09:20. > :09:27.incentive that helps landlords and property owners to Philby's vacant
:09:27. > :09:30.premises. Amy, just a final quick question on the subject. You think
:09:30. > :09:34.extra income generated from this should be ring-fenced to help
:09:34. > :09:39.business and promote businesses on the High Street? If there is going
:09:39. > :09:44.to be, but the extra income generated should, by the Scottish
:09:44. > :09:51.government's own projections, decrease over the years. I don't
:09:51. > :09:54.see that happening. They should be planning for having no income at
:09:54. > :10:00.all from this, because these landlords will get their properties
:10:00. > :10:04.let. Our opinion, fed to us by members, is that they are doing
:10:04. > :10:07.their damnedest at the moment, the owners, to do this, and the last
:10:07. > :10:12.thing they need is an extra tax imposed by the Scottish government,
:10:12. > :10:16.because that is what this is, we can't get away from it.
:10:16. > :10:19.Dalrymple and Susan Bree, thank you both very much for coming in this
:10:19. > :10:22.afternoon. We will have more coverage on this throughout the
:10:22. > :10:27.programme, including the debate at Holyrood.
:10:27. > :10:32.Labour has demanded a judicial inquiry into Alex Salmond's stance
:10:32. > :10:34.on the independent Scotland's position in the EU, one week after
:10:34. > :10:38.the Deputy First Minister revealed that taxpayers' cash was spent to
:10:38. > :10:41.keep the public from knowing that no specific advice had been taken
:10:41. > :10:46.and the first place. The Labour leader made the call for the
:10:46. > :10:49.inquiry in a debate yesterday. The only thing that is clear about
:10:49. > :10:53.this sorry mess is that the people of Scotland cannot expect the First
:10:53. > :10:58.Minister to be honest with them when it comes to fulfilling his
:10:58. > :11:03.lifelong dream of breaking up the United Kingdom. This form of
:11:03. > :11:08.selective hearing exemplify his a hollowness of the nationalist
:11:08. > :11:11.position, because deep down to them, none of this matters. All of these
:11:11. > :11:16.consequences, should they come to pass, will be worth it as long as
:11:16. > :11:21.they have what they view as self determination, and if only we think
:11:21. > :11:26.it over, the line of the referendum. All else is grist to the mill.
:11:26. > :11:33.uses the word, definitive. I wonder if she would accept that we are not
:11:33. > :11:41.in definitive territory here. Because all of these things, would
:11:41. > :11:45.she accept... A order! Would she accept that all of these things are
:11:45. > :11:50.subject to negotiation, so that all of this, we are going into
:11:50. > :11:55.negotiation, and the lawyers cannot give us definite positions. I am
:11:55. > :12:00.sure when the First Minister has but Relate, he would come to defend
:12:00. > :12:04.his own position. Because the First Minister didn't say it is all
:12:04. > :12:10.subject to the lawyer's. He said, we will be in Europe with Stirling,
:12:10. > :12:16.and none of that has been proven. I am calling for a judicial inquiry
:12:16. > :12:21.into the First Minister's handling of this affair from the beginning.
:12:21. > :12:25.An inquiry into the basis upon which the First Minister asserted
:12:25. > :12:32.that Scotland would automatically be a member of the you, what made
:12:32. > :12:37.him say that. An inquiry into why he said he had sought advice on the
:12:37. > :12:40.law when he had not. No amount of bluff and bluster will stopper
:12:41. > :12:44.seeking the truth. This government has an ambitious vision for
:12:44. > :12:49.Scotland as a prosperous and successful country reflecting
:12:49. > :12:53.values of fairness and opportunity, equality and social cohesion.
:12:53. > :12:59.to achieve that kind of society is what we should be talking about in
:12:59. > :13:03.a debate entitled Scotland's Feature. The motion for Today's
:13:03. > :13:07.debate is not really about Scotland's future. It doesn't
:13:07. > :13:10.address our place in the world as an independent nation and is not
:13:10. > :13:14.about Labour's vision for our country, if indeed they have won,
:13:14. > :13:19.something which is increasingly open to doubt, and it fails to
:13:19. > :13:25.address the very real risk to Scotland that a No vote in 2014
:13:25. > :13:28.would present, for example, it fails to mention the virtual and
:13:28. > :13:32.depressing certainty that Trident and successors would be based on
:13:32. > :13:39.the Clyde for another 50 years if Scotland does not become
:13:39. > :13:42.independent. But, presiding officer, as Jon Mason rightly said, this is
:13:42. > :13:46.not simply a legal question but also a matter of policy and
:13:46. > :13:51.politics, and this is where the arguments of the opposition are
:13:51. > :13:56.particularly and completely incredible. The notion that oil
:13:56. > :14:01.rigs, renewable energy rich, fishing which Scotland, would not
:14:01. > :14:05.be a member of the EU welcomed with open arms is to my mind patently
:14:05. > :14:09.absurd and it is time for the debate about Scotland's future to
:14:09. > :14:13.stop dealing in opposition absurdities. Alex Salmond is
:14:13. > :14:18.referring himself to a man appointed by the First Minister to
:14:18. > :14:22.be investigated and the terms of reference by -- decided by the
:14:22. > :14:27.First Minister. The rest of the panel are apparently surplus to
:14:27. > :14:33.requirements on this one. It is one thing to a point the judge, but to
:14:33. > :14:37.dismiss the jury and the charges on an issue which is entirely about
:14:37. > :14:42.trust raises eyebrows in the extreme. And what about the waste
:14:42. > :14:46.of public money, other government spending taxpayers' money in court
:14:46. > :14:51.to keep secret advice they now say they never had in the first place?
:14:51. > :14:56.On Tuesday, the deputy First Minister said she would update this
:14:56. > :15:00.Parliament on how much was spent after the �3,000 figure she quoted
:15:00. > :15:05.turned out to be incomplete. When can we expect that update? When can
:15:05. > :15:08.we be told who in the Civil Service sax and the use of this cash and
:15:08. > :15:13.when the fight to keep secret non- existent advice, and indeed, when
:15:13. > :15:18.legal sources close to the First Minister were telling the national
:15:18. > :15:23.press that Scotland's law officers consistently told Alex Salmond's
:15:23. > :15:27.government that an independent Scotland's future inside the EU was
:15:27. > :15:31.not automatic and would require detailed negotiations. We need to
:15:31. > :15:35.know whether that is true. Of course, the person who could clear
:15:35. > :15:40.this up is the lord advocate himself, Frank Mulholland, who
:15:40. > :15:43.wrote to me today to say that he has no intention of appearing
:15:44. > :15:50.before this Parliament to answer legitimate questions and clarify
:15:50. > :15:55.this issue. We cannot turn back if we go to an independent Scotland.
:15:55. > :15:59.This is too important. We need to know now, otherwise you expect
:15:59. > :16:04.Scots to take a step into the dark and vote without the knowledge of
:16:04. > :16:08.what that dark means. The First Minister and Deputy First Minister
:16:08. > :16:12.cannot both be right. Their complicated explanations have a
:16:12. > :16:17.short and reassured no one. The public know they have been caught
:16:17. > :16:22.out and be to come clean on that. Secondly, there is significant
:16:22. > :16:25.doubt about what the SNP tell us, so there for the level of proof
:16:26. > :16:31.they require is significantly higher now. This means they have to
:16:31. > :16:36.show us the legal basics of joining the EU, the terms of joining the EU,
:16:36. > :16:41.and they need to show that all members of the EU, all the
:16:41. > :16:51.countries, or 27, agree with them. Without that, people have doubt
:16:51. > :16:56.
:16:56. > :17:01.Over the surprise news last week they hadn't received legal advice
:17:01. > :17:04.on Scotland going into Europe, post independence. Well, I am not sure
:17:04. > :17:09.that they are going to get their judicial review. I think it has to
:17:09. > :17:14.go down the road that has been announced. I think it is still
:17:14. > :17:18.inflicted some significant damage, on the Government, in particularly
:17:18. > :17:23.on the First Minister. In terms of what he had led us all to believe,
:17:23. > :17:27.over many months, about what the situation as regards Europe was,
:17:27. > :17:33.and transpires that no advice had been sought, so, what he is saying
:17:33. > :17:37.about Scotland in Europe, in an independence environment, is an
:17:37. > :17:41.assertion, just as others can assert in different ways that it
:17:41. > :17:45.might be different from that, because the views coming out of
:17:45. > :17:49.Europe, coming from members of the commission, coming from some of the
:17:49. > :17:55.other member states, suggest that there is a question mark of some
:17:55. > :18:01.sort, so I mean the debate will go on, and I suppose the unanswered
:18:01. > :18:04.question for everyone is whether the imnact it has had on the
:18:04. > :18:08.Government's reputation for trust in the first few theys, is one that
:18:08. > :18:12.the other parties -- day, is one that the other parties can sustain
:18:12. > :18:16.in the months going forward. That is a guess for everyone, as to how
:18:16. > :18:20.that will play out. And before we move on, I am interested to hear
:18:20. > :18:25.your thoughts on the debate we had from Scottish Chamber of Commerce
:18:25. > :18:31.and Aberdeen BID on the discount on empty properties. It was a heated
:18:31. > :18:34.debate. It was fiesty. It is not often you hear different bits of
:18:34. > :18:39.the business community having a debate like that over a particular
:18:39. > :18:44.proposition. But I mean, the money involved is actually quite small,
:18:44. > :18:49.it is not small but it is �150 million a year, taking away that
:18:49. > :18:54.bit of the subsidy. It is not going to regenerate all the town centres
:18:54. > :18:59.in Scotland at �150 million. Equally, I am not sure, you know,
:18:59. > :19:03.that every landlord sitting on an empty property is desperate to rent
:19:03. > :19:08.it, unlu less they can rent it at the kind of level that would, you
:19:08. > :19:12.know give them the income they were used to. -- unless., So you know,
:19:12. > :19:16.the change has some impact. But there are more radical things that
:19:16. > :19:20.cold come into this debate. I think the Government is consulting at the
:19:20. > :19:24.moment, or has a committee looking at it at the moment, on whether
:19:24. > :19:28.there should be a community right to buy in town centre, the same way
:19:28. > :19:30.there is in land in rural Scotland, so that would be another
:19:30. > :19:38.interesting bit of the dynamic, so I think this is a story that maybe
:19:38. > :19:42.has some way to go. Back with you later. Thank you for that. Now MSPs
:19:42. > :19:48.and Holyrood's economy committee have been quizzing the bosses of
:19:48. > :19:52.some big public bodies. Lean ya Williams faced questions about
:19:52. > :19:56.inward investment while Dr Mike Cantalay was asked about sterling
:19:56. > :20:01.council's decision to cancel the plan to clan gathering in 2000 14
:20:01. > :20:05.which was due to be part of the year of the home coming. How would
:20:05. > :20:11.you address the doubters, who would look back at the experience of
:20:11. > :20:16.silicon glen and are concerned that such efforts to bring foreign based
:20:16. > :20:22.companies to touchdown in Scotland might not yield the kind of high
:20:22. > :20:27.quality stable and sustained employment we need if we are to
:20:27. > :20:30.achieve a long-term strategy. pred date Kateed on Scotland's
:20:30. > :20:36.capability, talented people and business infrastructure and supply
:20:36. > :20:42.chain, so that minimises the chance of any investor coming in to take
:20:42. > :20:49.chance of a low cost location and leaf again. Any incentives are
:20:49. > :20:54.highly, you know predicated on what is the word I am looking for? They
:20:54. > :20:58.have to pay it back if they leave early o and that is, you know, the
:20:58. > :21:02.very strong conditions on that, so, there hasn't been much upping and
:21:02. > :21:07.leaving of companies that have om in in the last five years because
:21:07. > :21:11.it is more anchored in the country. The final thinking is that 80% of
:21:11. > :21:14.all of the foreign investment Scotland gets is reinvestment from
:21:14. > :21:23.companies who are happy in Scotland, and I think that is the highest
:21:23. > :21:28.form of flatry that we can have. I take two examples of the area I
:21:28. > :21:31.represent. Am stkwhon have had help to come in, in the main, my
:21:31. > :21:34.experience, people are employed through agencies and there is a
:21:34. > :21:39.concern about the security employment and the nature of the
:21:39. > :21:44.employment they V the other example. The Fife energy pack, you have a
:21:44. > :21:47.company, a good employer, and in some senses but they do have a lot
:21:47. > :21:51.of people who could only be described ASBO Gus self employed
:21:51. > :21:54.who are not directly employed by the company and sthements up as
:21:54. > :21:57.businesses working there and financial support has went into
:21:57. > :22:02.Scottish enterprise to support the infrastructure round there. I am
:22:02. > :22:05.not convinced that it is good use of public money. You pensioned two
:22:05. > :22:12.example there's, there are many more foreign investors than the two
:22:12. > :22:18.you mentioned and both are in my ways excellent company, it is
:22:18. > :22:23.essential to Scotland's ongoing renewables industry, Amazon has,
:22:23. > :22:27.you know, is supporting many families in Scotland, through wage,
:22:27. > :22:33.whether they be contractor or full- time employed. Obviously, I would
:22:33. > :22:39.like to see as a citizen of Scotland in full term job, I think
:22:39. > :22:43.we have to accept that the nature of contracts isn't always going to
:22:43. > :22:47.afford that possibility to everybody. You are asking what can
:22:47. > :22:51.Scottish enterprise do? The vast majority of foreign investors are
:22:51. > :22:55.talking about permanent job, with lots of training, sustainable. And
:22:55. > :23:01.where that is not the case, we have to accept that there will be peaks
:23:01. > :23:07.and trough, as there is in Amazon for example. That is a business
:23:07. > :23:13.model. They are not managing peaks and troughs. They do, because, they
:23:13. > :23:20.do in the build up to Christmas, there is a huge hump, of employment.
:23:20. > :23:25.In the non- Is how they operate their business. Is no job
:23:25. > :23:29.preferable to a full-time permanent job? I would argue that in our
:23:29. > :23:34.current climate, you know, well paid work for a decent employer is
:23:34. > :23:38.what we want to get with as many people as possible. We want to get
:23:38. > :23:42.as many as permanent as possible, but that might not always be the
:23:42. > :23:47.case. Were you surprised by the announcement from Stirling council,
:23:47. > :23:52.and secondly, what plans are there to make Sheikh Mansour the home
:23:52. > :23:57.coming is a success, not withstanding this event which was I
:23:57. > :24:03.assume to be the anchor event of that year of activities, is not now
:24:03. > :24:10.to take place? Sterling council bought the right for the gathering
:24:10. > :24:15.and intend initially I believe to host a gathering about mid July in
:24:15. > :24:20.2014, subsequent to that in conversation with partners, they
:24:20. > :24:25.have decided, the council have decided it would be better to
:24:25. > :24:30.support the National Trust's plans to celebrate the battle of
:24:30. > :24:40.Bannockburn at the end of June, which is also in the city. And my
:24:40. > :24:47.understanding there will be a clan event, at that time, at that event,
:24:47. > :24:50.so that will include features like clan convention, and clan perrad o
:24:50. > :24:57.parade. Plans to reduce the drink- drive limit in Scotland will be
:24:57. > :25:03.debated at Holyrood tomorrow. The proposal to cut it from 80 mg to 50
:25:03. > :25:09.mg per one hundredml has been out to consultation. Although rejected
:25:09. > :25:14.by the UK Government campaigners have been keen to see the threshold
:25:14. > :25:18.changed. We are joined by Neil Greg. Obviously road safety campaigners
:25:18. > :25:23.want to see this changed. You have a couple of key concern, what are
:25:23. > :25:28.they? We have to state this will be a popular measure f you ask any
:25:28. > :25:33.Scottish driver what they want to see they would say reduce the
:25:33. > :25:42.drink-drive limit. We have two long-term concerns and the main one
:25:42. > :25:47.is it might dilute the police evident to catch those. If they are
:25:47. > :25:51.out catching people at the lowerly there might not be enough police to
:25:51. > :25:55.go round. There is a consense I was reading an article you had written
:25:55. > :25:58.that people who maybe had half a glass of wine over their limit,
:25:58. > :26:02.Cowell could be caught out in this. Currently all the surveys suggest
:26:02. > :26:07.everybody supports this move. They are happy with the strong penalties,
:26:07. > :26:12.but our concern is over the year, if we start to see more people 12
:26:12. > :26:18.month ban, seven years of high insurance. Loss of job, perhaps
:26:18. > :26:22.seizure of your car ultimately, for one glass of wine there might be a
:26:22. > :26:27.possibility of losing public support. It is important the police
:26:27. > :26:31.have that public support. Should people maybe not accept as many
:26:31. > :26:35.European countries that the you are going to drive your car you can't
:26:36. > :26:39.drink. You shouldn't be mixing alcohol and driving. People have
:26:39. > :26:43.got used to one glass of wine, maybe this morning after effect. If
:26:43. > :26:47.we start to get a lot of people feeling hard done by, I don't have
:26:47. > :26:51.much sympathy for them, but it could lose to a loss of support for
:26:51. > :26:55.the police and the police will say they get a lot of information
:26:55. > :27:00.through Crimestoppers, there is a lot of support for cracking down on
:27:00. > :27:03.drink-driving, we don't want to jeopardise that. Alf Young, why
:27:03. > :27:06.politically are they wanting to have that different limit from
:27:06. > :27:10.south of the border? There is a recognition in the Government and
:27:10. > :27:14.probably in all the parties at Holyrood that alcohol is a major
:27:14. > :27:18.issue in Scotland, not just on the road but in all sorts of other ways
:27:18. > :27:23.as well. I think the Government is keen to be seen to be doing
:27:23. > :27:28.something about it. When we get to, you know changing limits in that
:27:28. > :27:32.marginal way I just wonder, Neil, whether it is better to actually
:27:32. > :27:37.have the clean thing that Andrew was suggesting, a moment ago, and
:27:37. > :27:42.say if you are driving you are not drinking. Then there is no question
:27:42. > :27:47.of whether you will hit the limit or whether the police will put
:27:48. > :27:51.resources into catching the marginal offender rather than the
:27:51. > :27:54.serious offender. I think a steer row limit is attractive but it has
:27:54. > :27:58.practical issue, there are issues you can have natural alcohol,
:27:58. > :28:02.people have this idea of people cleaning musical instrument, most
:28:02. > :28:05.are urban myths but I think the broad support out there is for a
:28:05. > :28:09.lower limit. I think there are, you have to link it to the risk, and
:28:09. > :28:13.when you have alcohol in your system you cannot be a 100% safe
:28:13. > :28:16.driver. The current limit is set very high and no-one can argue with
:28:16. > :28:21.that. As you get lower down you get into the idea are we catching
:28:21. > :28:27.people who are above the limit who aren't causing any accidents?
:28:27. > :28:33.Thank you very much for coming to to -- coming in to speak to us. Let
:28:33. > :28:41.us go to the lobby at Holyrood and pick up some of the keyish sthuefs
:28:41. > :28:45.day. -- issues of the day. Good afternoon to you all very much for
:28:45. > :28:48.joining me. I want to pick up with you Mark, on this cut on the
:28:48. > :28:52.discount in business rates, we are hearing in the programme from
:28:52. > :28:55.Scottish Chamber of Commerce, very concerned about this extra cost for
:28:55. > :28:59.business during these tough economic times. Well, I think the
:28:59. > :29:01.key thing here is that the moment what we are doing is we are
:29:01. > :29:04.subsidising empty properties through public funding, that is a
:29:04. > :29:09.position which I don't think we can sustain going forward at the
:29:09. > :29:14.current rate. The Government has listened to concerns that have been
:29:14. > :29:20.raised, the reliefs which are being proposed in Scotland will be more
:29:20. > :29:24.generous south of the border. If you look at the Portas review, she
:29:24. > :29:28.was talking about disincentivising empty property, that is what we are
:29:28. > :29:31.talking about here. We will be introducing a relief package for
:29:31. > :29:36.properties brought back in to use to ensure that when propertys are
:29:36. > :29:40.brought back in to use, there is an incentive there as well. Elaine
:29:40. > :29:46.Murray, the statement has come out from your shadow local Government
:29:46. > :29:53.and planning secretary. She is saying last chance saloon for SNP
:29:53. > :29:58.and non- domestic rates. She is calling for a proper assessment.
:29:58. > :30:01.Why should we the taxpayer subsidise empty properties? Wa what
:30:01. > :30:05.we found in terms of the principle of bringing them back in to use,
:30:05. > :30:08.nobody would disagree with that. However, the evidence that we took
:30:08. > :30:14.at the finance committee, and indeed was taken by other
:30:14. > :30:17.committees and the evidence which has come from England, through
:30:17. > :30:23.legislation ironically brought in by the Labour Government, is that
:30:23. > :30:27.it doesn't work, and that in the UK, the evidence seems to suggest that
:30:27. > :30:31.rather than make things bet -- better, it has made things worse.
:30:31. > :30:38.What we cannot understand is why the Scottish Government has refused
:30:38. > :30:44.to do a impact assessment despite having been asked, by the business
:30:44. > :30:48.community, we don't understand why that hat not been done. You are
:30:48. > :30:53.concerned about this as well Jackson, we heard from abdien BID,
:30:53. > :30:58.and they were welcoming it and saying it will give an incentive to
:30:58. > :31:01.get empty properties back in to use, and places like Union Street..
:31:01. > :31:05.gave a hollow laugh. This Government had something of a
:31:05. > :31:08.business stripe in the last Parliament but it has turned on
:31:08. > :31:13.business with this action. This is the wrong time. Clearly this is not
:31:13. > :31:15.a case of trying to isn't vice bys to take up properties which are
:31:15. > :31:19.unoccupied but to support businesses through a very difficult
:31:19. > :31:22.period in the economy, so that when the economy recovers there are
:31:22. > :31:27.properties that people can occupy and what many business people are
:31:27. > :31:37.saying, they may have to demolish the properties rather than end up
:31:37. > :31:42.
:31:42. > :31:48.I want to pick up with another issue making headlines, as Labour
:31:49. > :31:53.put it, telling silence from SNP on student payment delays, this is the
:31:53. > :31:59.agency not paying out to 7000 applications. Is it something to be
:31:59. > :32:03.worried about or is it because these are late applications? What
:32:03. > :32:07.they have said today is that they had met the payments for everyone
:32:07. > :32:12.who applied in advance of the cut off on June 30th. Anyone not
:32:12. > :32:15.receiving payments is a concern. I know the Scottish Govermnent are
:32:15. > :32:20.currently working to ensure the backlog is being dealt with. The
:32:20. > :32:25.indications I saw earlier suggested that they are clearing well over
:32:25. > :32:28.100 applications, if not hundreds, daily, and obviously they want that
:32:28. > :32:34.backlog cleared as soon as possible to ensure students get the support
:32:34. > :32:41.they are entitled to. Ailey marry, they are dealing with applications
:32:41. > :32:46.after that crucial deadline, and having to process applications from
:32:46. > :32:49.September and even October. First of all, this is not the first times
:32:49. > :32:52.that -- first time this has happened. There have been problems
:32:52. > :32:56.in the past so the Scottish Govermnent should not be surprised.
:32:56. > :33:01.You can have a multitude of different situations under which
:33:01. > :33:04.people take up places at university, and not every student is in a
:33:04. > :33:08.position to make an application by the deadline. What is concerning
:33:08. > :33:12.this year is that so many students are in that position. They have to
:33:12. > :33:16.live and pay for accommodation and food and at the moment they do so
:33:16. > :33:20.without support, some borrowing from credit cards and bank, running
:33:20. > :33:24.up debt while they try to do so. Very tough on those students may be
:33:24. > :33:30.facing a difficult time, but if they applied late, whose fault is
:33:30. > :33:36.it, there's all the agency? I have sons at university or have friends
:33:36. > :33:40.in this situation. As she said, what we're have been in this
:33:40. > :33:45.situation before. Fiona Hyslop replaced Mike Russell because he
:33:45. > :33:48.was going to clear the backlog, and now Mike Russell is clearing up the
:33:48. > :33:53.backlog he created. It will soon be time to replace him with someone
:33:53. > :33:57.who can get a grip. One final thought, Mark MacDonald, Labour
:33:57. > :34:03.keeping up the pressure, calling for a judicial inquiry on this
:34:03. > :34:05.European affair. It has been pretty damaging for the First Minister.
:34:05. > :34:10.think calling for a judicial enquiry on this demonstrates that
:34:10. > :34:15.the Labour Party have lost all sense of perspective. You use
:34:15. > :34:19.judicial inquiries for things like the war in Iraq. These issues that
:34:19. > :34:22.Labour are calling for a judicial inquiry on do not merit such a
:34:22. > :34:29.severe approach, that it justifies that the Labour Party have lost
:34:29. > :34:32.focus and credibility. Visitors are they approach, have lost focus?
:34:32. > :34:37.First Minister has lost credibility and the reason we made the score is
:34:37. > :34:41.that nobody has confidence in his ministerial code, when he has
:34:41. > :34:45.appointed the judge and jury and the terms, so nobody has any
:34:45. > :34:51.confidence in the inquiry into the ministerial code he has referred
:34:51. > :34:58.himself to, given his fingerprints are all over it. Finally, is this a
:34:58. > :35:01.fair running on a bit too long, do you think, or as your former
:35:01. > :35:07.Conservative colleague pointed out, he is worried about the parameters
:35:07. > :35:09.of the inquiry set out to look at the ministerial code. I think the
:35:09. > :35:14.First Minister last week had a chance to say he had watched the
:35:14. > :35:17.programme, it was a confusion, he had a bit too late and the
:35:17. > :35:21.government had contributed to conjugate -- confusion over the
:35:21. > :35:25.last period and he regrets it. Instead they denied confusion and
:35:25. > :35:28.wrongdoing. That has left an impression in the public's mind
:35:28. > :35:33.that this is not a government you can trust, frankly, because they
:35:33. > :35:38.saw their interview and made their own mind up. Thanksmacro all for
:35:39. > :35:42.joining us. -- thank you for joining us.
:35:42. > :35:45.At Westminster, the Scottish repairs Committee are meeting this
:35:45. > :35:52.afternoon to discuss the Edinburgh agreement on the independence
:35:52. > :35:56.referendum. The Scottish Secretary is giving evidence. There is no SNP
:35:56. > :36:01.on the -- MP on the committee after Eilidh Whiteford withdrew following
:36:01. > :36:07.a spat with the Labour chairman. Let's listening to Michael Moore,
:36:07. > :36:10.the Scottish Secretary. It is very hard to argue that the
:36:11. > :36:15.Scottish Parliament should have to have a higher standard of this than
:36:15. > :36:20.we would accept ourselves. The role of the Electoral Commission is
:36:20. > :36:25.carefully spelt out in the agreement, and I believe that based
:36:25. > :36:30.on its credibility, its experience and everything else, it provides a
:36:30. > :36:35.very strong track records which shows it is neutral and above the
:36:36. > :36:42.fray. I think there for people in Scotland will expect the Scottish
:36:42. > :36:45.Govermnent to follow its recommendations. We have as a
:36:45. > :36:53.coalition, and the previous Labour government, have never disregarded
:36:53. > :37:00.the advice on finance. We are happy to give the committee further
:37:00. > :37:04.evidence on this about changes that have been made in the past
:37:04. > :37:08.following election commission advice. What we believe is that the
:37:08. > :37:17.Scottish Govermnent should follow that track record. That doesn't
:37:17. > :37:21.quite answer the question. In the same way that the UK Government
:37:22. > :37:26.could disregard the electoral commission's position on other
:37:26. > :37:31.questions, so could the Scottish Govermnent, but I think he used an
:37:31. > :37:39.important phrase there, at their peril. We have seen in the last
:37:39. > :37:42.week that the risks you take a with public trust, a few acts in a way
:37:42. > :37:49.people don't believe is right. There is a big donors on the
:37:49. > :37:56.Scottish Govermnent to follow expected besieges, and it should.
:37:56. > :38:00.Was it following on directly from this? The difference is, none of
:38:00. > :38:06.the main parties in the UK parliament have ever publicly said
:38:06. > :38:13.they would consider going against the electoral commission's advice
:38:13. > :38:18.in a referendum. I appreciate way you are coming from. Before we move
:38:18. > :38:22.on, following the earlier question about the Scottish Govermnent
:38:23. > :38:26.accepting that they didn't have the legal powers to hold a binding
:38:26. > :38:31.referendum, and certainly none of the rhetoric I have heard from the
:38:31. > :38:36.Scottish Govermnent before the order was made would indicate that,
:38:36. > :38:40.I wanted to know if in your meetings with them, did they ever
:38:40. > :38:44.mention pursuing legal advice on their ability to have a legally
:38:44. > :38:49.binding referendum without the order? I have had countless
:38:49. > :38:54.meetings on this over the last 18 months. We have debated lots of
:38:54. > :38:59.things to and fro. I am not in a position to recall precisely one
:38:59. > :39:04.way or the other. Suffice to say they maintained in public a very
:39:04. > :39:06.strong position on what they believed the settlement for the
:39:06. > :39:16.parliament allowed. I think the proof of the pudding is that when
:39:16. > :39:21.it came to the crunch, they accepted that they needed to ensure
:39:21. > :39:25.this was beyond legal challenge. What we are trying to get to the
:39:25. > :39:29.bottom of is what caused the change of heart to the Scottish Govermnent,
:39:29. > :39:34.and I have asked the first Magners did this but three months on he has
:39:34. > :39:40.not responded, which is why you are getting asked -- I asked the First
:39:40. > :39:45.Minister this. I respect that. I celebrate the fact that from our
:39:45. > :39:50.starting point we have now reached an agreement where we are
:39:50. > :39:57.committed... STUDIO: The Scottish Secretary giving effect -- giving
:39:57. > :40:01.evidence to be Scottish Affairs Committee. As we have just been
:40:01. > :40:06.hearing, the SNP are not sitting on that committee, but I am pleased to
:40:06. > :40:11.be joined by one of the SNP MP is here at Westminster. Mike Weir,
:40:11. > :40:15.first of all, we know there was a spat last year about the Scottish
:40:15. > :40:18.Affairs Committee. Would it not be politically advantageous for your
:40:18. > :40:21.party perhaps to return to that committee so you can put your ideas
:40:21. > :40:27.and views in the chamber rather than having to react to what they
:40:27. > :40:33.say? It is very well known, there was a very good reason by it -- but
:40:33. > :40:36.why are represented is not on that committee. If they care to
:40:36. > :40:40.apologise we will reconsider our position, but until that happens we
:40:40. > :40:44.will not attend the committee. That is a clearly principled stance.
:40:44. > :40:49.the subject of their investigation looking at the consequences of
:40:49. > :40:54.independence, or as they put it, separation, how useful an inquiry
:40:54. > :40:58.is that if rain in the wider debate on the independence question?
:40:58. > :41:03.very nature of the inquiry, the name tells you all you need to do
:41:03. > :41:10.it -- to know. They are coming from its -- at it from a definite and
:41:10. > :41:15.goal which is trying to perpetrates something in particular. We need a
:41:15. > :41:19.proper debate, not a biased report from a Labour dominated or Unionist
:41:19. > :41:26.dominated committee. We will leave it there for the moment, please
:41:26. > :41:29.stay there, because Andrew app -- Wednesday is Prime Minister's
:41:30. > :41:33.Questions. We had Prime Minister's Questions taking place against the
:41:33. > :41:37.backdrop of newspaper reports this morning saying the coalition
:41:37. > :41:40.government was divided on the subject of wind farms. A report
:41:40. > :41:45.from the former Tory Cabinet minister Lord Heseltine, calling
:41:45. > :41:50.for more to boost the economy, and also the question of Europe,
:41:50. > :41:54.something Conservative MPs get very exercised about. So no shortage of
:41:54. > :42:00.topics and questions for David Cameron at midday today. Here is a
:42:00. > :42:04.flavour of how things transpired. Will the Prime Minister confirm
:42:04. > :42:10.that if he can't get a good deal for Britain in the EU budget
:42:10. > :42:20.negotiations, he will use the veto, and reject any advice on this
:42:20. > :42:22.
:42:22. > :42:26.matter from those who gave our rebates away. I can absolutely give
:42:26. > :42:30.my honourable friend that assurance. This government is taking the
:42:30. > :42:36.toughest line in these budget negotiations of any government
:42:36. > :42:39.since we joined the EU. At best, we would like it cut, at worst, frozen,
:42:39. > :42:43.and am quite prepared to use the veto if we did get a deal that is
:42:43. > :42:46.good for Britain. But let's be clear, it is in our interest to try
:42:46. > :42:50.to get a deal because a seven-year freeze would keep our bills down
:42:51. > :42:55.compared to annual budgets. Labour's position is one of
:42:55. > :42:58.complete opportunism. They gave away half the rebate and sent the
:42:58. > :43:08.budgets through the roof, and now they want to posture rather than
:43:08. > :43:08.
:43:09. > :43:13.get a good deal for Britain. Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister has
:43:13. > :43:20.an opportunity today to get a mandate from this house for a real-
:43:20. > :43:24.terms reduction in the EU budgets which he says he wants, over their
:43:24. > :43:29.next seven years, which he could take to the negotiations in Europe.
:43:29. > :43:35.Why is he resisting that opportunity? I think, Mr Speaker,
:43:35. > :43:39.the whole country will see through what is rank opportunism. People
:43:39. > :43:44.haven't forgotten the fact that they gave away half our rebate in
:43:44. > :43:49.one negotiation. That they agreed at a massive increase to the EU
:43:49. > :43:54.budget under their government, and now today, they haven't even put
:43:54. > :43:58.down their own resolution on this issue. The nation will absolutely
:43:58. > :44:03.see straight through it. He is playing politics but not serving
:44:03. > :44:06.the country. Mr Speaker, when it comes to
:44:06. > :44:11.consistency, he seems to have forgotten what he has said as
:44:11. > :44:16.leader of the opposition -- what he said, just four months before the
:44:16. > :44:20.last general election. This is what he said. I would have thought they
:44:20. > :44:24.were interested in what the Prime Minister said as leader of the
:44:24. > :44:29.opposition, Mr Speaker. This is what he said. "at a time when
:44:29. > :44:34.budgets are being cut in the UK, does the Prime Minister agree, in
:44:34. > :44:42.reviewing the EU budget, the main purpose should be to push for a
:44:42. > :44:46.real terms cut?" That's what he said in opposition. So when it
:44:46. > :44:51.comes to opportunism, this Prime Minister is a gold medallist. At a
:44:51. > :44:55.time when he is cutting the education budget by 11 per cent,
:44:55. > :45:01.the transport budget by 15 per cent and the police budget by 20 per
:45:01. > :45:05.cent, how can even be giving up on a cut in the EU budget before
:45:05. > :45:12.negotiations have begun? We have to make cuts in budgets because we are
:45:12. > :45:17.dealing with record debt and deficits. But if he wants to talk
:45:17. > :45:22.about consistency, perhaps he can explain why his own members of the
:45:22. > :45:26.European Parliament voted against the budget freeze we achieved last
:45:26. > :45:29.year. Perhaps he can explain why the Socialist group in the European
:45:29. > :45:34.Parliament, which she is such a proud member of, are calling not
:45:34. > :45:40.from increase in the Budget or a freeze, but at 200 billion euros
:45:40. > :45:44.increase in the budgets, and while there are at it, they want to get
:45:44. > :45:48.rid of the rebate, is that his policy? He is certainly getting
:45:49. > :45:53.very angry, Mr Speaker, perhaps it's because he's worried about
:45:53. > :45:57.losing them at this afternoon. And the reality is, our MEPs voted the
:45:57. > :46:01.same way as his on the motion before the European Parliament 10
:46:01. > :46:06.days ago. The reality is that he can't convince anyone on Europe.
:46:06. > :46:10.Last year, he flounced out of the December negotiations with a veto
:46:10. > :46:15.and the agreement went ahead anyway. He has thrown in at how all even
:46:15. > :46:21.before negotiations has begun. He can't convince European leaders or
:46:21. > :46:31.even his own backbenchers. He is weak abroad and at home. It is John
:46:31. > :46:34.
:46:34. > :46:39.That was a boisterous affair dom Taited by the issue of Europe and
:46:39. > :46:47.what will happen to Britain's correction to funding the European
:46:47. > :46:54.Union. Still with me is Mike Weir and we have been joined by two
:46:55. > :46:59.other MPs. First of all, I presume the javersnoon you will be working
:47:00. > :47:04.hard to get your MPs and other coalition MPs to defeat this motion,
:47:04. > :47:09.to reduce the actual amount of money that we pay to the EU, why?
:47:09. > :47:13.We certainly will. It is clear there is a broad consensus across
:47:13. > :47:18.Europe, constructed between the UK Government, France and Germany,
:47:18. > :47:23.that a freeze in real terms is what is appropriate, that is achievable.
:47:23. > :47:26.Frankly, while doubtless the opportunism you will see from the
:47:26. > :47:31.Labour Party and the SNP is popular and populist, it is not something
:47:31. > :47:33.that is actually going to advance Britain's interests in Europe. That
:47:33. > :47:39.is what responsible politics ought to be about. I can't believe for
:47:39. > :47:44.one second, that the likes of David Mill band who have a proper owning
:47:44. > :47:50.of where Britain's interest lie in Europe are in any way shape or form
:47:50. > :47:56.happy about being in the lobby, along with people like Bill Cash
:47:56. > :48:01.and Peter Bone, the swivel eyed Euro-sceptics in the Tory party:
:48:01. > :48:06.There you go it is opportunism, Alistair took the opportunity to
:48:06. > :48:10.praise some of his coalition colleagues. It is absurd to say
:48:10. > :48:14.when Alistair is saying every part of Government should tighten its
:48:14. > :48:21.beltings we should not do so with the EU budget. What we are doing
:48:21. > :48:26.today is calling for radical reform of what the EU spends I money on.
:48:26. > :48:31.We have 25 million people unployed in the European Union yet we are
:48:31. > :48:34.producing subsidies in agriculture we should spend more on science and
:48:34. > :48:40.investment and innovation, that is what our votes and motion are going
:48:40. > :48:44.to do today. If it is a tight vote, the voefts the SNP could be
:48:44. > :48:49.important in this one, which way will you vote tonight? With will
:48:49. > :48:54.look at the issue, we have to be careful about every penny we spend,
:48:54. > :48:57.in Europe as much as the UK. Budgets have been squeezed
:48:57. > :49:02.everywhere. Agricultural is an important industry in Scotland so
:49:02. > :49:08.we have to look at it in the balance and make decision on that.
:49:08. > :49:13.If everyone says we have to bear down on costs, why can't we have
:49:13. > :49:20.austerity Europe? There is a lot of work that can be done. Colleagues
:49:20. > :49:24.are leading that work, the talk that Willie has about money
:49:24. > :49:29.generating growth. A lot of the money goes into the same sort of
:49:29. > :49:33.projects he is talking about. I tell you this, having voted for the
:49:33. > :49:38.cuts today, if they were to achieve them, when that money then started
:49:38. > :49:42.coming out of Scotland's economy, from the EU budget, they would be
:49:42. > :49:46.the first people to complain about it. As for Mike Weir what a
:49:46. > :49:50.ridiculous position that is! Here is the biggest single important
:49:50. > :49:54.issue in Britain and three hours before we are going to vote on this
:49:54. > :49:57.they haven't made their mind up, when a lot of their nationalist
:49:57. > :50:04.friend in the European Parliament like Plaid Cymru and the Greens
:50:04. > :50:10.vote in favour of an increase of 6. 5%. There is mischief making going
:50:10. > :50:15.on. You know what a tixic issue this was for the Tories in the '90s,
:50:15. > :50:18.how the late John Smit played this from a Labour Party point of view.
:50:18. > :50:22.Isn't Ed Miliband doing the same thing?. We have been consistent. In
:50:22. > :50:26.July we voted for a real terms cut and we will vote for a real terms
:50:26. > :50:30.cut today, because we believe, you know, we have reached the end of
:50:30. > :50:34.the line where we can go on with Europe as it stand. We need to have
:50:34. > :50:39.a reform to the budget. A radical reform that cease more money spent
:50:39. > :50:44.on generating growth and less on agricultural sud dis. The Prime
:50:44. > :50:49.Minister that Alistair receives, said in opposition, cutting in real
:50:49. > :50:55.terms the EU budget was would be a priority of the Government. If it
:50:55. > :51:00.was doable then, why it is not now. The party has been consistent N the
:51:00. > :51:03.90s when the Macdistrict treaty was going through, they were
:51:03. > :51:07.opportunistic then. They had been opportunistic today. You should
:51:07. > :51:10.judge them on what they did in 13 years in Government. In 13 years in
:51:10. > :51:14.Government. The only change they made to a contribution to the EU
:51:14. > :51:18.was to give away a big chunk rebate. It seems strange three or four
:51:18. > :51:21.hours before the vote, you don't yet seem to know how you are going
:51:21. > :51:25.to vote. Are you saying this is your party, you will listen to the
:51:25. > :51:30.strength of the speeches and tar guements that are made in the
:51:30. > :51:34.chamber. Then you will decide. are coming in from a trench
:51:34. > :51:38.position. There is a balance to be struck. There is important money
:51:38. > :51:43.comes, there is the concern about the EU budget t fact all budgets
:51:43. > :51:48.are being squeezed and we have look at every penny spent. We are facing
:51:48. > :51:52.austerity from this Government in werges and across Europe. We can't
:51:52. > :51:57.cart blanch say we will give an increase or leave it. We must look
:51:57. > :52:02.eat it. It is a principle positions, not just a knee-jerk reaction like
:52:02. > :52:06.these two. We will have to leave it there. That debate is due to begin
:52:06. > :52:09.shortly. Thank you very much for joining us. I think somehow, that
:52:10. > :52:14.as they say, this is going to be a lively debate. We should get the
:52:14. > :52:18.result about seven clock. I will let these gentlemen go away because
:52:18. > :52:23.it is about to start raining and this isn't the place to be when it
:52:23. > :52:27.is wet. Finishes just in time. Now, let us cross to Holyrood and watch
:52:27. > :52:35.some of the discussion over the plan to cut the discount, on rates
:52:35. > :52:39.for empty rots. Our commentator is Niall o Gallagher P Thank you. What
:52:39. > :52:45.to do about empty business property tons Scottish high street. That is
:52:45. > :52:48.the discussion held today. We have already had votes, ruling out
:52:48. > :52:54.amendments which would have maintained higher subsidys for a
:52:54. > :52:58.period of seven years and then to allow people, a period of grace if
:52:58. > :53:01.they were trying to sell their properties. At the moment, the
:53:01. > :53:11.Derek mechanic Kai is arguing for the Government in favour of a
:53:11. > :53:13.
:53:13. > :53:18.proposal that would reduce subsidy from 50% to 10%. -- McKay.. Neither
:53:18. > :53:22.the minister or Mr Harvey have convinced me I should withdraw my
:53:22. > :53:26.amendment. I will be supporting the amendment which come plements me
:53:26. > :53:30.own. We need a proper assessment of the business and regulatory impact
:53:30. > :53:34.of this bill. Not just a consultation before the bill,
:53:34. > :53:39.followed by the ministers promise of further consultation before
:53:39. > :53:43.regulations are issued. Without that Parliamentary consideration of
:53:43. > :53:47.proposals for regulation, based on a proper assessment of their impact,
:53:47. > :53:56.there is a significant danger this part of the bill will do more harm
:53:56. > :54:02.than good, and that is not a risk we should take. Are you pressing
:54:02. > :54:06.your amendment? Pressing. question is amendment 3B be agreed
:54:06. > :54:11.to are we all agreed. We are not agreed. There will be a one Minardi
:54:11. > :54:15.vi, please vote now. So members now getting to vote on a series of
:54:15. > :54:18.amendments which concern the scrutiny of this measure, just to
:54:18. > :54:23.recap, the Scottish Government thinks that empty properties are
:54:23. > :54:28.too highly subsidised in Scotland. We are talking here about shops and
:54:28. > :54:32.office, non-domestic properties. There is an argument here from the
:54:32. > :54:36.opposition party, that actually it is not that the subsidies are
:54:36. > :54:39.keeping the properties unoccupied, but it is the economy that is
:54:39. > :54:43.keeping the properties unoccupied and to reduce the subsidy at this
:54:43. > :54:47.time would be nothing more than a tax on business, that is certainly
:54:47. > :54:50.the view of the Conservative, who have been speaking thon issue.
:54:50. > :54:55.Labour think it's the wrong time to do it during a recession, but the
:54:55. > :54:59.Scottish Government has Coraled in the likes of Mary Portas saying
:54:59. > :55:05.this is what needs to be done in order to encourage businesses, not
:55:05. > :55:09.to hold on to empty properties, at the tax payers' expense. Now
:55:09. > :55:12.members are voting on the regulation on whether the say
:55:12. > :55:17.Parliament should have, if ministers want to adjust the rates,
:55:17. > :55:23.in the future, and also, we have heard arguments just in the lead up
:55:23. > :55:31.to this particular vote on the amount of consultation beforehand.
:55:31. > :55:36.The amendment is therefore not agreed. The The am mndment is not
:55:36. > :55:41.agreed. We move on to the next stage of the debate. The move or
:55:41. > :55:46.not move. Move amendment. question is 4B agreed, are we all
:55:46. > :55:50.agreed. We are not agreed. There will be a division. Please vote now.
:55:50. > :55:54.We will get a vote on another one of the amendment. We expect that to
:55:54. > :55:57.go in the same way. Once again the SNPs a thinner majority in ensuring
:55:57. > :56:00.they will win the vote today, the question as to whether they have
:56:00. > :56:06.won the argument of course is one for another day, and with that I
:56:06. > :56:13.think we are safe to hand back to Andrew. Thank you for that. I am
:56:13. > :56:16.joined once again for our final time by Alf Young. A very
:56:17. > :56:21.procedural Parliament, not much debate going on. Let us pick up on
:56:21. > :56:27.a couple of issues we were seeing at Westminster. The issue of the
:56:27. > :56:31.veto, and we saw Alistair car Mike frl the Liberal Democrats accusing
:56:31. > :56:36.Labour of political opportunism. The problem for Alistair Carmichael
:56:36. > :56:40.as part of the coalition, and for David Cameron, who was doing Prime
:56:40. > :56:45.Minister's Questions, is that it is Tory backbenchers, who are going to
:56:45. > :56:49.make this proposition tonight, that rather than just go for a freeze on
:56:49. > :56:54.our contribution to Europe, that there should be a real terms
:56:54. > :56:59.reduction, so maybe about 40 Tories are going to vote on that amendment,
:56:59. > :57:03.and Labour, in lining themselves up with them, are clearly, it is a
:57:03. > :57:08.opportunistic move in they are coat tailing someone else's proposition.
:57:08. > :57:12.But given the arithmetic it is probably tight, and there is a
:57:12. > :57:16.possibility that that could go the wrong way. Another good spat has
:57:16. > :57:21.been merging from Westminster today. David Cameron said there is no
:57:21. > :57:26.change in windfarm policy after the Tory Energy Minister John Hayes
:57:26. > :57:31.said he, the UK was perpd with windfarms, and enough is enough.
:57:31. > :57:36.Though comments putting him on a collision course with the climate
:57:36. > :57:38.and energy change secretary Ed Davey. There is no doubt in the
:57:38. > :57:42.backbencher -- backbenches of the Conservative Party, at Westminster,
:57:42. > :57:49.there are a number of people who are fed up with the idea of more
:57:49. > :57:53.and more windfarm, there is a rural lobby against it. Mr Hayes, from a
:57:53. > :57:56.ministerial position is articulating that. He is saying
:57:56. > :58:03.something that Owen Paterson, the new Environment Secretary said a
:58:03. > :58:07.few week ago, so there is quite high levels on the Tory side, some
:58:07. > :58:13.questions about whether the current poll soin wind is sustainable,
:58:13. > :58:16.south of the border, -- policy on. I heard someone from the renewables
:58:16. > :58:20.industry on the radio today saying we need certainty on this. If we
:58:20. > :58:25.are going to do this, we will have the commitment to the manufacturing
:58:25. > :58:31.base to provide the turbine, and the columns that support them, then
:58:31. > :58:36.we need to have that now, and you know, it is just another example of
:58:36. > :58:40.confusion. In Westminster. Thank you. Than you for your