31/10/2015

:00:40. > :00:46.Hello and a very warm welcome to our live coverage of the Scottish Labour

:00:47. > :00:50.conference. Labour are meeting at the Perth concert tour. After a

:00:51. > :00:53.catastrophic showing at the general election, there is a lot of work to

:00:54. > :00:58.be done if they are face a similar wipe-out at Holyrood in May.

:00:59. > :01:01.I'm here in Perth to bring you all the latest news, comment and

:01:02. > :01:08.analysis and who knows? Maybe a little Halloween stuff as well.

:01:09. > :01:11.Scottish Labour have chosen to meet over the Halloween weekend and

:01:12. > :01:15.there's plenty to scare them in the years ahead. The polls suggest

:01:16. > :01:17.they're showing ads may's Scottish Parliamentary election may be even

:01:18. > :01:20.worse than the general election. They will be looking for is on

:01:21. > :01:28.witchcraft from the new leadership team of Kezia Dugdale and Jeremy

:01:29. > :01:31.Corbyn, or Kez and Jez as they were dubbed yesterday their political

:01:32. > :01:35.nightmare is not continue. Ryan Taylor is that the conference

:01:36. > :01:42.centre. We have set the bar on Halloween jokes and very low

:01:43. > :01:48.indeed! What is the mood there like? I think some of them are going to go

:01:49. > :01:52.out guising than listening to the conference. Jeremy Corbyn did his

:01:53. > :01:55.speech yesterday and we're getting Kezia Dugdale later with an

:01:56. > :01:59.announcement on her idea of restoring full Scotland are tax

:02:00. > :02:06.credits which are due to be reduced by the UK Government, and paying for

:02:07. > :02:09.that by withholding the idea of removing some tax benefits from

:02:10. > :02:14.other taxpayers. Basically, the Chancellor is proposing to increase

:02:15. > :02:18.the threshold at which people move into the upper tax rate and Kezia

:02:19. > :02:23.Dugdale is saying that if Labour are returned to power at Holyrood, once

:02:24. > :02:28.the new full tax powers come in, quite probably in 2017, Labour would

:02:29. > :02:31.bring in the increase in the thresholds, which would bring in

:02:32. > :02:39.extra money. They also won't go ahead with the SNP proposal of

:02:40. > :02:43.cutting air passenger duty when it is devolved. Kezia Dugdale believes

:02:44. > :02:46.this fits into a wider pattern of firstly, using the new powers that

:02:47. > :02:50.are coming Holyrood's Way and secondly, using them in a way, she

:02:51. > :02:57.would argue, that is redistributive and progressive. Brian, I'm curious

:02:58. > :03:02.as to what the overall vibes are. Is it, "oh, my God, have you looked at

:03:03. > :03:09.the opinion polls? This is awful". Or is it, "we have got Jeremy Corbyn

:03:10. > :03:13.and it is all new and exciting". They are apprehensive and concerned.

:03:14. > :03:18.They are also determined to fight back if they possibly can. Are they

:03:19. > :03:21.certain that Jeremy Corbyn is the vehicle to produce that fight back?

:03:22. > :03:26.Well, for the most part, no. They gave him a very warm ovation when he

:03:27. > :03:31.arrived in the hall and then when he had spoken and indeed, T gave them

:03:32. > :03:34.an ovation back, by applauding, which is perhaps an intriguing

:03:35. > :03:38.mechanism. But nonetheless come his speech went down very well. But you

:03:39. > :03:42.spoke to delegate afterwards and they wonder what, other than the

:03:43. > :03:46.straightforward pitch to the left-wing vote, they wonder how much

:03:47. > :03:50.of that there is in their which spreads the remit of the party and

:03:51. > :03:55.broadens the approach of the party, after they lost very badly, as he

:03:56. > :04:01.reminded us, in the UK general elections in May? There's only a few

:04:02. > :04:05.months to go before they have to avoid air, double defeat at Holyrood

:04:06. > :04:10.next May. What about the whole business of making the Labour Party

:04:11. > :04:15.in Scotland more autonomous? Again, I'm curious. Is the view, "this is

:04:16. > :04:19.great, we are going to get homework". Or is it, "for heaven's

:04:20. > :04:24.say, this is the last thing the Labour Party should be concerned

:04:25. > :04:28.about"? Kezia Dugdale's calculation is that one of the elements that was

:04:29. > :04:35.hitting them on the doorsteps is that, "you are not a Scottish body,

:04:36. > :04:39.you are ruled from London", the branch office scenario that Johann

:04:40. > :04:42.Lamont, one of her predecessors, famously referred to. Kezia Dugdale,

:04:43. > :04:45.the current leader believes they have two tackle that, address it

:04:46. > :04:49.first, to be seen as a Scottish party in order to get a hearing at

:04:50. > :04:53.all on the doorsteps, to get their ideas across about health,

:04:54. > :04:57.education, taxation and the rest. She reckons they have to get over

:04:58. > :05:00.that hurdle first and prove themselves a Scottish party. You are

:05:01. > :05:04.right, there have been several attempts to do this in the past.

:05:05. > :05:07.They will debate Trident tomorrow and members chose it as the most

:05:08. > :05:11.popular priority for them and they will debate it tomorrow at

:05:12. > :05:14.conference but I'm old enough to remember in the 80s and 90s, the

:05:15. > :05:18.Scottish Labour conference, often in Perth, at the old City Hall, here

:05:19. > :05:23.and elsewhere, they would regularly vote against Trident and it was

:05:24. > :05:27.regularly and routinely ignored by the UK leadership of the party.

:05:28. > :05:31.Sometimes in a supportive manner, sometimes in a friendly patronising

:05:32. > :05:35.manner. I wonder what changes in regards to that? Kezia Dugdale

:05:36. > :05:40.insists it is about autonomy, standing on the side of the Scottish

:05:41. > :05:43.people and projecting a completely Scottish identity and giving

:05:44. > :05:47.priority to Hollywood as well. OK, Brian, back with you shortly. I'm

:05:48. > :05:53.joined for the duration of the programme by Professor John that is

:05:54. > :05:56.from the politics department at Strathclyde University. John, let's

:05:57. > :06:01.start with the big picture. If you are Kezia Dugdale, you have got a

:06:02. > :06:05.heck of a job to do. It is a very large dog and you now seem to face

:06:06. > :06:10.an even bigger mountain to climb than the party had back in December,

:06:11. > :06:14.when Jim Murphy took over the party in December of last year. It's an

:06:15. > :06:16.enormous problem. To give you some idea, we thought that what had

:06:17. > :06:21.happened to the Scottish Labour Party in 2011 was bad enough, but at

:06:22. > :06:25.least they got around a third of the vote on the constituency ballot.

:06:26. > :06:29.They went down to around a quarter in last May's general election and

:06:30. > :06:32.at the moment, the opinion polls are saying they don't have much more

:06:33. > :06:36.than a fifth of the vote. To give you some idea of potentially how

:06:37. > :06:39.serious this is, if the opinion polls for next May's Scottish

:06:40. > :06:44.Parliamentary elections were to be realised at the ballot box, we are

:06:45. > :06:50.talking about a 9% swing from Labour to the SNP, as compared with the

:06:51. > :06:53.disastrous result of May 2011. If that were to be replicated in every

:06:54. > :06:58.constituency in Scotland, the Labour Party would no longer have any

:06:59. > :07:02.constituency MPs in the Holyrood parliament. In other words, the

:07:03. > :07:07.party would find itself in exactly the same position as the

:07:08. > :07:09.Conservatives were in in 1999, in that Scottish Parliamentary election

:07:10. > :07:12.when they did not win any constituency seats and they were

:07:13. > :07:16.Holyrood Alliance on the proportional part of the system to

:07:17. > :07:19.be represented at Holyrood at all. One has to say that would be an

:07:20. > :07:24.extraordinarily embarrassing outcome for the Scottish Labour Party if it

:07:25. > :07:28.transpired. You mention the Conservatives. Some of them are

:07:29. > :07:32.perhaps getting overexcited but very excited and sniffing that perhaps,

:07:33. > :07:36.just perhaps they could end up being the main opposition in Scotland.

:07:37. > :07:40.They are sniffing around that but I don't think they should get too

:07:41. > :07:44.excited. The truth is, on average, the opinion polls still put the

:07:45. > :07:49.Conservatives around 15% which is where they were in May 2011 and the

:07:50. > :07:53.Labour Party is slightly above 20%. There is not any evidence of the

:07:54. > :07:56.Conservative Party being any stronger in Scotland, insofar as it

:07:57. > :08:00.is now begins to look as though there might be a bit of a race as to

:08:01. > :08:02.who will be the second largest party in Scotland, it is simply a

:08:03. > :08:06.reflection of how far the Labour Party have fallen, not any evidence

:08:07. > :08:10.of Conservative increase. Back with John in a moment but now, Brian has

:08:11. > :08:14.been joined by Scottish Labour's sole surviving member of the UK

:08:15. > :08:19.Parliament. Quite right, the last man standing

:08:20. > :08:22.as he wants to Scrafton .com Ian Murray, Secretary of State in

:08:23. > :08:25.Scotland. Thank you for joining us. We will get Kezia Dugdale's speech

:08:26. > :08:28.shortly but congratulations on your 's beach yesterday. You mentioned

:08:29. > :08:33.economic growth, unlike Jeremy Corbyn but I think you got away with

:08:34. > :08:36.it. What I was trying to do yesterday was saying that the

:08:37. > :08:39.Scottish Labour Party is the party of making sure that everyone in this

:08:40. > :08:43.society has the best Adonai. The point I was making quite clearly is

:08:44. > :08:46.you can't do that without a strong economy and generating wealth to be

:08:47. > :08:53.redistributed and without money for public services. Jeremy and I are on

:08:54. > :08:56.the same page. You made no reference to economic growth and Ed Miliband

:08:57. > :09:00.got pelted for not mentioning authority -- austerity and the

:09:01. > :09:05.deficit and Jeremy Corbyn did not mention the commie. He had a didn't

:09:06. > :09:08.star, he wanted to show that Scottish Labour was going back to

:09:09. > :09:10.its traditional Scottish values and show a distinction between what we

:09:11. > :09:14.are thinking about doing and what we want to do as the party looking to

:09:15. > :09:17.get into the government what the SNP are doing into that their rhetoric.

:09:18. > :09:21.They talk the talk but they don't walk the walk. That was the purpose

:09:22. > :09:24.of his speech. It was not an economic speech. I did a bit of

:09:25. > :09:32.business and economy in mind. Turning to the business of new

:09:33. > :09:35.powers, you are the shadow Scottish secretary, and there is only one of

:09:36. > :09:39.you on the Labour benches but do you expect the Scotland Bill to go

:09:40. > :09:43.through? There are suggestions further amendments, perhaps from the

:09:44. > :09:45.Secretary of State, objections that there is still potentially a veto

:09:46. > :09:50.over the new benefit powers in practice. What do you make about the

:09:51. > :09:54.latter issue? Do you expect it to go ahead? I'm really excited about the

:09:55. > :09:56.Scotland Bill. It's a massive opportunity for Scotland but also

:09:57. > :10:09.for the government to get this right. We have said all along, we

:10:10. > :10:11.will the government in getting the Scotland Bill through but it has do

:10:12. > :10:14.make sure the Smith agreement is delivered in full and we want to go

:10:15. > :10:16.further on welfare provisions. What do you need to meet Smith? I want

:10:17. > :10:19.the welfare provisions to allow Scotland to be able to top up any

:10:20. > :10:22.reserve benefit. The Treasury say no. They say they can't do that but

:10:23. > :10:24.I want the devolved benefits to be introduced in the new devolved areas

:10:25. > :10:30.if the Scottish allotment which to do so. That would satisfy Smith. Are

:10:31. > :10:33.you confident that will happen? I think so because the Secretary of

:10:34. > :10:37.State has heeded the warning, and not just my SNP colleagues as well,

:10:38. > :10:41.he's got tonight and tomorrow to get it right and if he brings them on

:10:42. > :10:44.Monday, we will support it. Assuming this goes ahead and we get the

:10:45. > :10:47.benefit powers devolved and implemented in Scotland, Kezia

:10:48. > :10:52.Dugdale is giving an example this afternoon of how Labour would use

:10:53. > :10:56.them. Absolutely, she's going to have a very steely approach. She

:10:57. > :10:59.wants Scotland to first look at the Labour Party and take a fresh look

:11:00. > :11:02.at Kezia Dugdale and say that this is someone who is stealing and can

:11:03. > :11:10.make tough, radical positions for the party and the country. It is the

:11:11. > :11:13.offer to make sure that everyone who is on tax credits at the moment

:11:14. > :11:16.maintains them. We will pay through at -- for that through not taking

:11:17. > :11:18.the cuts to air passenger duty and not implementing the increase in the

:11:19. > :11:24.threshold for the upper rate of income tax. It is salaries of

:11:25. > :11:28.?42,000 plus which will pay more? No one will pay more but they won't

:11:29. > :11:30.benefit from an introduction of the increase in Breschel. No one in

:11:31. > :11:34.Scotland will pay more tax to implement the policy but this is a

:11:35. > :11:37.steely and radical approach from Kezia Dugdale, Diousse the new

:11:38. > :11:41.powers, passionately for the values we believe in. Make sure people

:11:42. > :11:46.maintain their tax credit income and do that by making sure nobody pays

:11:47. > :11:50.any more tax but we can use the savings from other proposals on the

:11:51. > :11:54.Scottish Government and from the UK Government to pay for the policy. To

:11:55. > :11:57.be clear, under your plan, middle to high earners would pay more, not

:11:58. > :12:04.more than they currently pay but more than would be levied in

:12:05. > :12:08.England. Higher rate taxpayers will pay not a penny more. But more than

:12:09. > :12:12.their counterparts in England? Their counterparts in England may well pay

:12:13. > :12:17.less because the Chancellor wants to extend the Breschel to ?50,000. On

:12:18. > :12:21.the tax credit proposal, is it the current operation of tax credits,

:12:22. > :12:26.you are not proposing to revert to the previous, more generous Labour

:12:27. > :12:29.scheme where people earning up to maybe ?50,000 or ?60,000 per year

:12:30. > :12:33.could get tax credits? We are costing it on where we are today but

:12:34. > :12:37.the House of Lords won the vote on Monday which has sent the Chancellor

:12:38. > :12:40.a way to think again with regard to the tax credit proposal. He is to

:12:41. > :12:43.put in mitigation measures for the poorest for the next three years

:12:44. > :12:47.which would make it more affordable, if he was able to do some of the

:12:48. > :12:50.mitigation himself. We have costed it on where we are today so it may

:12:51. > :12:57.be even easier to deliver if the Chancellor Jane kisses mind. Moving

:12:58. > :12:58.to the issue of Trident -- Chancellor changes his

:12:59. > :13:13.to the issue of Trident -- you advocated from the dispatch box

:13:14. > :13:16.in the House of Commons? We are going through the process at UK

:13:17. > :13:20.Parliament level as well, for the Labour Party to look and address all

:13:21. > :13:23.of our policies. The current UK party policy is still to renew

:13:24. > :13:27.Trident as a minimum nuclear deterrent. As a member of the Shadow

:13:28. > :13:32.Cabinet, would you have do stay with that for now? I have already said I

:13:33. > :13:36.would break the whip and not vote to renew Trident but that is my

:13:37. > :13:39.personal position. I will be making strong arguments tomorrow and if the

:13:40. > :13:39.Scottish Labour Party decide they don't

:13:40. > :15:51.Scottish Labour Party decide they Davis, umpteen others make the point

:15:52. > :15:53.that how can you be a separate, autonomous party when actually, in

:15:54. > :15:55.terms of the electoral registration rules, you are just an accounting

:15:56. > :15:59.unit of the UK Labour Party? They have got a quote from the electoral

:16:00. > :16:02.commission, "the commission does not hold a constitution for the Scottish

:16:03. > :16:06.Labour Party per se, since they are not separately registered with us,

:16:07. > :16:13.they are registered for GB as a whole". That won't change, will it?

:16:14. > :16:18.This is a topic of great interest. What is the answer? I said a few

:16:19. > :16:22.times, I'm not advocating for a separate Scottish Labour Party.

:16:23. > :16:25.That's quite important. This is a stronger Scottish Labour Party,

:16:26. > :16:30.better equipped to represent England within the UK. Not autonomous in the

:16:31. > :16:33.sense of being a separate party? We are a separate accounting unit and

:16:34. > :16:37.we have do provide our own accounts and report in the way you would

:16:38. > :16:41.expect. We appear on a ballot paper as the Scottish Labour Party, that

:16:42. > :16:45.is beyond all doubt. But I want to be part of the wider UK labour

:16:46. > :16:48.movement. They say that you appear on the ballot as Scottish Labour but

:16:49. > :16:51.you are an accounting unit of the wider Labour Party which is

:16:52. > :16:55.registered, which means it is the Labour Party manifesto upon which

:16:56. > :17:00.you must stand, not necessarily an autonomous Scottish manifesto?

:17:01. > :17:07.I have seen this debated over Twitter and a few people linked to

:17:08. > :17:11.that website which I don't consider reputable. A few journalists went to

:17:12. > :17:15.the Electoral Commission and said they suggestion that the Scottish

:17:16. > :17:19.Labour Party couldn't have different policy positions because what's on

:17:20. > :17:22.the website was utter nonsense, it was refuted by the Electoral

:17:23. > :17:28.Commission. Let's stick with that policy question, the idea of

:17:29. > :17:32.policies. Say you have a distinct policy in Scotland say on Trident or

:17:33. > :17:36.national insurance or whatever, it is. Different from the policy that's

:17:37. > :17:41.held south of the border and you go to, not a Scottish election, you go

:17:42. > :17:44.to a UK election, you couldn't have two policies on Trident north and

:17:45. > :17:48.south of the border when you're standing all to be elected as Labour

:17:49. > :17:52.members in the United Kingdom House of Commons? I think it is very

:17:53. > :17:56.important that the Scottish Labour Party sets out its own policy

:17:57. > :17:59.direction and there maybe occasions where we choose to take a different

:18:00. > :18:04.path from the rest of the UK party. So what happens in that situation, I

:18:05. > :18:07.have heard people say, "How are you going to make sure it is clear to

:18:08. > :18:10.people what they are voting for?" What I would say to that, this is

:18:11. > :18:13.not a brand-new concept. This happens in European countries all

:18:14. > :18:18.the time. Particularly in countries that have a more sort of federal

:18:19. > :18:22.system of operation. There are two different ways that you can approach

:18:23. > :18:25.this. One is on the proactive cases, for example, a manifesto everybody

:18:26. > :18:28.expects to know what's in the detail of the manifesto. There might be

:18:29. > :18:31.different positions and you go through a processed and this is

:18:32. > :18:36.referenced in the statement that I put together with Jeremy Corbyn

:18:37. > :18:40.where various stakeholders will work through the detail. And there will

:18:41. > :18:42.be a single manifesto position that everyone at a UK general election,

:18:43. > :18:45.you would be standing on a single manifesto? Well, if you look at what

:18:46. > :18:53.happens in European countries where there is a conflict that can't be

:18:54. > :18:58.resolved, what you get to is a point of agreed abstention. I understand

:18:59. > :19:01.that there is a degree of work still to be done here. The statement I

:19:02. > :19:06.signed with Jeremy Corbyn recognises that we need to task people within

:19:07. > :19:10.our movement to work out clearly what the protocol would be, I take

:19:11. > :19:16.you back to the fact Brian, I think this simply has to happen. The

:19:17. > :19:20.Scottish Labour Party has to be more atonne news, not because there is

:19:21. > :19:23.any self interest as a party, but this would help us better represent

:19:24. > :19:29.people the length and the breadth of the country. Gary Bennett, how could

:19:30. > :19:34.you spend ?167 billion on Trident with proposed austerity measures

:19:35. > :19:41.being implemented? Gavin Maxwell, with the cost of Trident rising to

:19:42. > :19:45.?177 million, is it time to pull the plug on the project? I'm excited to

:19:46. > :19:49.be here. We were going to do that. I'm going to put the power into the

:19:50. > :19:52.hands of our members over the issue of Trident. We will have a priority

:19:53. > :19:55.ballot this morning. We will know later today whether it will be

:19:56. > :20:02.discussed on the conference floor on Sunday morning. But I understand the

:20:03. > :20:05.strength of feeling on this issue. I recognise that there are different

:20:06. > :20:09.views within the Labour Party on it. Do you think it is likely that the

:20:10. > :20:15.Scottish conference will say no to Trident? I don't know that they are

:20:16. > :20:21.going to pick it. But you yourself are in favour of retaining it? I am

:20:22. > :20:25.a multi-lal trelist, I believe the best way to get rid of nuclear

:20:26. > :20:31.weapons is with other countries around the world. Everybody in the

:20:32. > :20:37.Labour Party is against nuclear weapons, it is how best you do that.

:20:38. > :20:41.What you will see in the detail of this motion debate and in the text

:20:42. > :20:45.of the debate if it is picked, the simple truth and Jeremy Corbyn said

:20:46. > :20:50.this himself, if you choose not to renew Trident, every single penny of

:20:51. > :20:53.that money that is saved, has to be invested in the communities that it

:20:54. > :20:57.has come from. You sound as if you're getting ready for that

:20:58. > :21:01.change? I'm open-minded as to what might happen this weekend. There is

:21:02. > :21:08.a degree of honesty in this motion that you don't get any other party.

:21:09. > :21:13.It can't be spent in 12 different ways like the SNP argue, it can't be

:21:14. > :21:17.spent on alternative defence, it has to go back into the communities who

:21:18. > :21:23.will lose out in terms of jobs and future investment. That's Jeremy

:21:24. > :21:27.Corbyn's position and it is the most honest position. There is a Scottish

:21:28. > :21:31.party conference says no to Trident, what if the rest of the Labour Party

:21:32. > :21:35.says yes? That trumps it, doesn't it? No, I don't think so. If we have

:21:36. > :21:38.a democratic process here at this party conference then what that

:21:39. > :21:43.becomes is the position of the Scottish Labour Party. The UK that

:21:44. > :21:47.would implement the withdrawal or the renewal of Trident and Scotland

:21:48. > :21:54.would not form that UK Government? We are on to three hypotheticals

:21:55. > :21:58.here. We don't know if it will be debated in conference, but we have

:21:59. > :22:03.one Labour MP now. I would like there to be a tremendous number

:22:04. > :22:08.more. Unless the remainder of the Labour Party agrees, the Scottish

:22:09. > :22:15.party's view is irrelevant? That one Labour MP is opposed to the renewal

:22:16. > :22:23.of Trident. Let me give you some quotations from 1992, the Herald,

:22:24. > :22:27.1982, back strongly worded motions on a future Labour Government to

:22:28. > :22:34.cancel Trident. The Labour Party in Scotland sent a message to Mr Neil

:22:35. > :22:41.Kinnock that he must not abandon the commitment to unilateral nuclear

:22:42. > :22:49.disarmament, Evening News 6th March, the Scottish Labour Party snubbed

:22:50. > :22:54.Tony Blair. I could give you umpteen others. The Labour Party across the

:22:55. > :22:59.UK paid not a blind bit of notice. That's like saying, "Why should the

:23:00. > :23:05.SNP have a position on Trident because they will not be in the

:23:06. > :23:10.position to push the Red Button." I have a strong mandate to lead this

:23:11. > :23:14.party. I will make it more autonomous and that's what I'm going

:23:15. > :23:17.to do this weekend. You are going to reach a Scottish position. The

:23:18. > :23:20.Scottish position will be as it has been umpteen times in the past,

:23:21. > :23:23.anti-Trident and the position will be or can be ignored by the UK

:23:24. > :23:27.Labour Party because they have bigger clout and they form the UK

:23:28. > :23:30.Government? This will be the position of the Scottish Labour

:23:31. > :23:37.Party Conference, that's what I'm responsible for doing.

:23:38. > :23:39.That interview was done yesterday before conference decided that they

:23:40. > :23:45.One of the big issue at conference is the referendum on the EU.

:23:46. > :23:47.Yesterday afternoon saw a fringe event chaired by

:23:48. > :23:50.Lord George Foulkes on Labour's campaign to stay inside the EU.

:23:51. > :23:53.Speaking to a packed audience, the MEP Catherine Stihler and

:23:54. > :23:57.Mandy Telford from the union Community spoke

:23:58. > :24:00.about how Labour could work with other socialists to better inform

:24:01. > :24:03.the public about the benefits of being part of the European Union.

:24:04. > :24:09.Here's a little more of what was said.

:24:10. > :24:17.Deeper political co-operation has allowed the left in the UK to join

:24:18. > :24:21.forces with our European counterparts and to achieve

:24:22. > :24:24.protection for workers across 28 member states, that's quite

:24:25. > :24:30.something. That's a real achievement and we should celebrate that. So it

:24:31. > :24:33.is splintering the left, I believe in Europe, wouldn't serve the

:24:34. > :24:37.objectives of the progressives, but rather weaken our attempts to effect

:24:38. > :24:42.change to the benefit of the many, not the few.

:24:43. > :24:48.The UK leaving the European Union would deprive the left of one voice

:24:49. > :24:52.to benefit one Continent. Being part of the European Community has

:24:53. > :24:56.changed our society. It has brought protection for workers and

:24:57. > :25:01.investment for our industries. Equal pay for women a ban on sex

:25:02. > :25:05.discrimination, rights for part-time workers and maternity and paternity

:25:06. > :25:10.and the right to paid holiday. Global companies like Nissan and

:25:11. > :25:13.Siemens choosing to set-up shop in Britain because of our continued EU

:25:14. > :25:17.membership. The challenge for Europe is this, we are one 20th of the

:25:18. > :25:23.world's population, with 20% of the world's wealth. That can't continue.

:25:24. > :25:27.Wealth is moving east. The rise of China, the Brit countries with the

:25:28. > :25:32.mint countries behind. So we have to ensure a productive and competitive

:25:33. > :25:34.union so we have the best products, efficiently produced without

:25:35. > :25:38.lowering wages and standards of living. To leave the EU is to

:25:39. > :25:45.opt-out of the challenges and accept that Britain just falls behind.

:25:46. > :25:48.Well, that was Mandy Telford from the union, Community speaking at a

:25:49. > :25:50.yes to EU fringe event. Brian is with two delegates who want

:25:51. > :25:58.to continue that debate on Europe. Thank you very much indeed. Yes, of

:25:59. > :26:01.course, we don't know the date for the referendum. We don't know the

:26:02. > :26:07.terms, but we know it is a gigantic choice for the whole of the UK

:26:08. > :26:14.including Scotland. I'm joined by Catherine Stihler and Nigel

:26:15. > :26:19.Griffiths. Catherine, why stay in the EU? Because we benefit from

:26:20. > :26:23.being a member of the Union from the water quality we have, food quality,

:26:24. > :26:27.food safety, jobs, there is a host of benefits, but it is about being

:26:28. > :26:30.part of something bigger. We live in a global world and to walk away from

:26:31. > :26:36.our closest neighbours is not in our interests. You are setting up Labour

:26:37. > :26:40.Leave, why quit? Request leave? We have had 53 years of fail our of the

:26:41. > :26:43.Common Agricultural Policy, 42 years of failure of the Common Fisheries

:26:44. > :26:49.Policy and it is quite clear that there are threats now from

:26:50. > :26:54.American-style multinationals to the rights of us to nationalise parts of

:26:55. > :26:59.the NHS and bring back into public ownership parts of our railway. We

:27:00. > :27:03.can't put up with that. Is it about the economy and social powers or

:27:04. > :27:08.about sovereignty, about a loss of sovereignty? The loss of sovereignty

:27:09. > :27:12.is an important factor, but it is an issue of cost, we are spending ?350

:27:13. > :27:17.million a week that's going from our treasury to Brussels. We can't

:27:18. > :27:21.afford Catherine Stihler it? Nigel knows the cost of everything, but

:27:22. > :27:24.the value of nothing. We have had the most valuable peace process

:27:25. > :27:29.which is the European Union. The fact we work together to create a

:27:30. > :27:35.single market, where we have one set of rules rather than 28 sets of

:27:36. > :27:38.rules. Nigel is advocating for a Norway, Iceland model which they

:27:39. > :27:44.have to abide by the rules, but have no say over the rules. I don't see

:27:45. > :27:49.Norway struggling? If you talk to Norwegians, pay to abide by euros,

:27:50. > :27:54.but have no say on how the euros are spent, I see that clearly. I think

:27:55. > :27:58.at the moment we need reform. If we want a Social Democratic reform in

:27:59. > :28:02.Europe, we need to stay in and fight our corner and to be progressive, we

:28:03. > :28:07.need to be part of the European Union not walk away from it. Stay?

:28:08. > :28:12.We don't have Norwegians leaving nor ways and banging on the doors of the

:28:13. > :28:18.European Commission demanding entry. Outside Europe is what they like? It

:28:19. > :28:23.is interesting Nigel, if you look and talk to Norwegians, I remember

:28:24. > :28:28.going when the public procurement debate was on. It was a Department

:28:29. > :28:33.of Industry and it was given their public procurement brief about how

:28:34. > :28:37.they saw the new rules and what they wanted to achieve. They gave it to

:28:38. > :28:41.me as a Scottish MEP, but they have no power over it. The fact of the

:28:42. > :28:46.matter at the moment, we have power by being members, yes, we need

:28:47. > :28:50.reform. You want to see an end to zero-hours contracts and more money

:28:51. > :28:54.given to academic research and more money to job creation, but we can

:28:55. > :28:58.only do that by being part of it, when you talk about common

:28:59. > :29:03.agricultural reform, if we come out, which is the choice you want to

:29:04. > :29:06.make, that's a choice for the people British to have, if we come out, we

:29:07. > :29:10.have to abide by the rules and be part of the skinningle market and

:29:11. > :29:13.pay for it and have no say over the rules. After trying to reform the

:29:14. > :29:18.Common Agricultural Policy, I haven't met one happy farmer, why is

:29:19. > :29:22.that? Nigel, the thing about it is at the moment, we have huge benefits

:29:23. > :29:26.from being, you talk to academics about research money they get from

:29:27. > :29:30.the European Union. If you look at the research money that comes to

:29:31. > :29:33.Scotland, it is something like ?80 million since the beginning of last

:29:34. > :29:41.year. That's something that's so important. Doesn't Britain remain a

:29:42. > :29:46.net contributor? We do contribute more, but we have a

:29:47. > :29:50.rebate as well, we have to figure that in too. I believe for the

:29:51. > :29:54.future prosperity of Scotland and the United Kingdom, we are better

:29:55. > :29:58.placed by having a seat at the top table than just walking away and it

:29:59. > :30:05.is a shame Nigel because I thought that you thought consumer policy was

:30:06. > :30:09.an important part. What we achieved in a vote, interroaming charges

:30:10. > :30:13.across Europe. That was a great win last week. A great victory by

:30:14. > :30:17.working together. I'm not saying everything is perfect in the EU, far

:30:18. > :30:23.from it. I want to see reform, but we can only reform if we're part of

:30:24. > :30:28.it? We are now having exporting more goods worldwide than we are to the

:30:29. > :30:33.European Union. The amount we're exporting in the European Union is

:30:34. > :30:41.shrinking. We have barely got a deficit with the rest of the world,

:30:42. > :30:44.it is not working in our favour. The single market across the European

:30:45. > :30:49.Union, of 500 million citizens, to be able to access that is something

:30:50. > :30:56.that's really important we get by being a full member. If we choose to

:30:57. > :31:00.opt-out, the single market will still remain and we will have now No

:31:01. > :31:05.say how the rules are made. There are senior allies of Britain,

:31:06. > :31:09.notably the USA who say stay in the European Union for the advantage of

:31:10. > :31:14.the global economy? No, the United States want us in the European Union

:31:15. > :31:18.so we're bound by their trade policy which has done a lot of damage to

:31:19. > :31:22.Australia which signed up to a similar policy and put their public

:31:23. > :31:26.sector at risk. Are you saying Britain would thrive outside the

:31:27. > :31:29.European Union Very much so. What about the Japanese car firms who

:31:30. > :31:35.set-up in the UK did that to gain access to a European market? There

:31:36. > :31:39.is the wider global market as well. We make the best cars in the world.

:31:40. > :31:42.All the Formula One cars, their engines, their gearboxes are made in

:31:43. > :31:48.Britain. The wings of Airbus are made and so are the engines. That's

:31:49. > :31:51.why Airbus has got Rolls-Royce engines and so has Boeing. We have a

:31:52. > :31:56.global market, we shouldn't restrict it. Is there a distinctive Scottish

:31:57. > :32:00.element to this, the SNP argument that they could see a trigger for an

:32:01. > :32:01.independence referendum if Britain with draws and Scots vote against,

:32:02. > :32:11.do you think that's credible? I think that could happen because I

:32:12. > :32:13.don't think the SNP can sell to the Scottish people going into the

:32:14. > :32:18.European Union as a renegotiation and giving up even more rights for

:32:19. > :32:22.fishing communities and agriculture, and indeed, forcing us into the

:32:23. > :32:25.euro, which the Scots don't want. Over the years, we have had reform

:32:26. > :32:29.of the common agricultural policy and the fishing policy and at the

:32:30. > :32:32.end of the day, it's a choice for people whether they want to remain

:32:33. > :32:37.part of the EU or leave. In my opinion, I think our best interests

:32:38. > :32:41.are served by remaining part of a reformed European Union, fighting

:32:42. > :32:43.for workers' right and making sure we have consumer protection,

:32:44. > :32:48.environmental standards and fighting for the benefits we get from being a

:32:49. > :32:52.member. Briefly, do you think David Cameron will secure substantial

:32:53. > :32:56.returns in his negotiations with the EU? I think we will see the letter

:32:57. > :33:01.coming out next week, to see what the Prime Minister's reform demands

:33:02. > :33:07.are. It is in our long-term interest, to have access to the

:33:08. > :33:11.single market with workers' right. I don't know anyone in the UK

:33:12. > :33:16.Parliament who thinks that David Cameron will get any meaningful

:33:17. > :33:19.concessions. And in that case, withdrawal is the only option?

:33:20. > :33:24.Definitely not the option but I think that is what people will go

:33:25. > :33:26.for. I hope not! Thank you for joining us. Back to the studio.

:33:27. > :33:28.We're expecting Kezia Dugdale to take to the stage

:33:29. > :33:38.Let's reflect on some of that. You can see what Kezia Dugdale is trying

:33:39. > :33:42.to do with the autonomy stuff but by the end of this weekend, it is quite

:33:43. > :33:44.conceivable we could have the Scottish Labour Party against

:33:45. > :33:49.Trident, while its leader is in favour of it, while we have the UK

:33:50. > :33:55.Labour Party for Trident, while its leader is against it. No matter how

:33:56. > :34:00.much you say it is great to have a range of opinion, is that really

:34:01. > :34:04.sustainable? I think the difficulty is, one understands why Kezia

:34:05. > :34:07.Dugdale wants autonomy because the truth is, the Scottish Labour

:34:08. > :34:11.Party's problem in the last 15 years with devolution is not an inability

:34:12. > :34:15.to disagree with the UK Labour Party on reserved matters like Trident but

:34:16. > :34:21.in its apparent inability to take the initiative on devolved matters,

:34:22. > :34:24.which now includes taxation. I think certainly, it is somewhat

:34:25. > :34:27.unfortunate from her point of view that the first issue on which

:34:28. > :34:32.perhaps the party is going to exercise autonomy or going to be

:34:33. > :34:36.seen to exercise autonomy is on a reserved issue like Trident on

:34:37. > :34:40.which, frankly, the Labour Party is simply divided, both amongst its

:34:41. > :34:43.membership and the voters. This is hardly the best place to start. On

:34:44. > :34:47.the other hand, the big announcement we are expecting in the speech, and

:34:48. > :34:51.we have already seen trailed, in effect, the Scottish Labour Party is

:34:52. > :34:54.saying it is not willing to implement the increase in the

:34:55. > :34:58.threshold at which you begin to pay 40p tax. John McDonnell does not

:34:59. > :35:02.have a policy which says that at the moment and it may well be true that

:35:03. > :35:06.the UK Labour Party in 2020 as a different position on that.

:35:07. > :35:09.Therefore, that will mean the Scottish Labour Party has a

:35:10. > :35:14.different policy from the UK Labour Party in an area of taxation. But

:35:15. > :35:17.the point is, it is a policy area which will by that stage be the

:35:18. > :35:22.responsibility of the Scottish parliament so it is perfectly fine.

:35:23. > :35:25.It is to the Scottish Labour Party's advantage it can take

:35:26. > :35:29.different decisions in those circumstances. But on things like

:35:30. > :35:33.Trident, the bottom line is, it does not matter what they say. As Brian

:35:34. > :35:37.said, and if you watched the hold interview, Mr Dell struggles on the

:35:38. > :35:40.fact that at the end of the day, the Scottish Labour Party can express

:35:41. > :35:45.its view and it has the right to but it has within able to do that. --

:35:46. > :35:55.Miss Dugdale. At the moment at least, there is no clear

:35:56. > :35:57.understanding between Jeremy Corbyn and Kezia Dugdale about what

:35:58. > :35:59.happens, how policy is decided in the circumstances with the UK and

:36:00. > :36:01.the Scottish party disagree. We have to remember, the announcement on

:36:02. > :36:04.Monday was essentially a statement of intention. There is no detail at

:36:05. > :36:06.all about exactly how this operates. Certainly, there are questions about

:36:07. > :36:11.what happens when the parties are at odds with each other on UK wide

:36:12. > :36:13.policy. Equally, there are still important questions about how the

:36:14. > :36:17.Scottish Labour Party will be resourced. It is a fairly open

:36:18. > :36:20.secret that few people believe the Scottish Labour Party is capable of

:36:21. > :36:25.being so autonomous that it can financially stand on its own feet.

:36:26. > :36:30.It is part of our job to spot weasels jumping up from its the long

:36:31. > :36:34.grass. We have seen a few already this afternoon, Ian Murray, the

:36:35. > :36:37.proposal on tax credits that Kezia Dugdale is about to make, we

:36:38. > :36:44.believe, said that they are taking as their starting point now, but if

:36:45. > :36:46.George Osborne brings in measures to ameliorate the effects of that, it

:36:47. > :36:51.will cost less. That seems to suggest that by the time the

:36:52. > :36:56.Scottish Labour Party, should things go very well for them, can implement

:36:57. > :36:59.this, it would not be reversing all the tax credits because people are

:37:00. > :37:02.expecting and amelioration, they are not expected George Osborne to

:37:03. > :37:08.abandon it but it would somehow take into account the living wage and all

:37:09. > :37:11.the rest of it and start from there. Two points to make, firstly, the

:37:12. > :37:15.important thing about the announcement we expect in this

:37:16. > :37:19.speech is it is the first really big indication, as it were, that we are

:37:20. > :37:22.moving into a world where Scotland's devolved politicians have

:37:23. > :37:26.to make decisions about taxation as well as about spending. Once you

:37:27. > :37:29.start having to make decisions about taxation, then you have to start

:37:30. > :37:32.making decisions which mean that some people might be better off and

:37:33. > :37:40.some people will be worse off. The truth is, the statement the Scottish

:37:41. > :37:43.Labour Party would not increase the rate at which you start paying the

:37:44. > :37:48.40p rate of tax in the way George Osborne plans to do for the rest of

:37:49. > :37:51.the UK means that people in Scotland who are relatively well-off are

:37:52. > :37:55.going to be asked to pay a bit more tax and to do so in order to ensure

:37:56. > :38:01.that those who are less well off and who are currently profiting from tax

:38:02. > :38:04.credits, will be better off. That is a redistributive policy, not the

:38:05. > :38:07.kind of thing the Scottish parliament could easily do in the

:38:08. > :38:10.past but it raises questions as to whether or not those who will be

:38:11. > :38:14.disadvantaged by the policy will back it when push comes to shove.

:38:15. > :38:20.The first really big change in Scottish politics to note. I think

:38:21. > :38:23.beyond that, certainly, the question that will be raised, undoubtedly

:38:24. > :38:31.about this, as is always raised about these things, is do the sums

:38:32. > :39:21.add up? John Swinney, when he was interviewed a couple of weeks ago,

:39:22. > :39:23.add up? John Swinney, when he was while we were listening to that was

:39:24. > :41:00.to do with when John McDonnell talked about...

:41:01. > :41:02.to do with when John McDonnell paying money to not over generous

:41:03. > :41:05.employers rather than getting into a situation where the only people who

:41:06. > :41:09.are getting tax credits are those people who are in employment where

:41:10. > :41:13.you cannot economically justify paying a higher wage? Every time I

:41:14. > :41:16.have spoken to you recently about the Labour Party, you say they won't

:41:17. > :41:20.get anywhere until they get the basic narrative sorted out, so they

:41:21. > :41:24.can tell a story to the people of Scotland about what the Scottish

:41:25. > :41:30.Labour Party is. Are they any closer to doing that now? Not as yet. One

:41:31. > :41:33.of the interesting thing is that in truth, the announcement we are

:41:34. > :41:40.expecting in Kezia Dugdale's speech is frankly the first proposal of any

:41:41. > :41:44.note that has come from Kezia Dugdale since she became leader in

:41:45. > :41:47.the summer. I take it that the narrative that might be built around

:41:48. > :41:51.that, that will need to be built around that, is essentially the

:41:52. > :41:55.argument that actually, we really want to make a more equal Scotland

:41:56. > :42:00.and here are a set of proposals that will deliver a more equal Scotland

:42:01. > :42:05.in a way that we don't think the SNP are. One of the possible mistake

:42:06. > :42:09.that has been made by the presentation of this thing in

:42:10. > :42:12.advance is that it has been as much about, "we are going to clock a

:42:13. > :42:16.smooth out the Tories by making it impossible for their policy to be in

:42:17. > :42:19.fermented in Scotland". The Labour Party has to remember in Scotland

:42:20. > :42:23.that its principal opposition and political enemy is not the

:42:24. > :42:27.Conservative Party, it is the SNP. It has got to come up with a

:42:28. > :42:32.narrative that provides the basis for a critique of what the SNP has

:42:33. > :42:36.been doing and what the SNP has been proposing, rather than a critique of

:42:37. > :42:41.the Conservative Party. Again, the crucial challenge that they need to

:42:42. > :42:45.use this initiative to is to say to the assembly, "would you be willing

:42:46. > :42:48.to do the same?" As we have discussed earlier, at the moment,

:42:49. > :42:50.the SNP have indicated they are not willing to go down that path. We

:42:51. > :42:52.will talk more later. Let's go straight over to the

:42:53. > :43:02.Perth Concert Hall for ... Nobody embodies the passion and

:43:03. > :43:05.the courage and the values of the Scottish Labour Party... This is a

:43:06. > :43:11.young member of the Scottish Labour Party who is introducing her. ... It

:43:12. > :43:15.is with great pleasure that I ask you to welcome one of my personal

:43:16. > :43:16.role models, the leader of the Scottish Labour Party, Kezia

:43:17. > :43:19.Dugdale! Good afternoon, conference. This is

:43:20. > :44:11.my first conference as your leader. APPLAUSE

:44:12. > :44:16.I would like to start by thanking all of you, as supporters and

:44:17. > :44:20.members, for your belief in me, for your commitment to our values, for

:44:21. > :44:25.the energy and strength that you give to me and to our movement. And

:44:26. > :44:28.to the thousands of new members who have decided to be part of the

:44:29. > :44:37.future of our party and our nation, we say, welcome.

:44:38. > :44:43.APPLAUSE You join a party with an honoured

:44:44. > :44:46.past but I promise you this, we will give you so much more to be proud of

:44:47. > :44:53.in the years ahead. APPLAUSE

:44:54. > :44:58.I would like to thank our brothers and sisters in the union movement.

:44:59. > :45:04.In by us in the good times and bad. Your values are our values. We are

:45:05. > :45:07.and always will be the party of working people, a proud party of

:45:08. > :45:16.trade unionists. APPLAUSE

:45:17. > :45:23.And especially to my union, Community, and your members, let me

:45:24. > :45:26.say, we have been with you in past struggles and we stand with you

:45:27. > :45:28.again today as you fight not just to save your jobs but said the steel

:45:29. > :45:38.industry in Scotland. APPLAUSE

:45:39. > :45:42.-- to save the steel industry. It is indeed a great honour to lead our

:45:43. > :45:48.party and I address you with a strong sense of both duty and

:45:49. > :45:51.optimism. My duty is also, though, to the millions outside this hall

:45:52. > :45:56.who need a strong Scottish Labour Party as much today as at any time

:45:57. > :46:01.in our recent history. As a party, we face huge challenges, of course

:46:02. > :46:05.we do. But we are strengthened by the knowledge of what has gone

:46:06. > :46:08.before, the people who built our movement, faced far greater

:46:09. > :46:14.obstacles than we do. Keir Hardie, whose memory we honour, a century

:46:15. > :46:18.after his death, stood on over and more with hundreds of trade

:46:19. > :46:21.unionists and proclaimed, for the first time, that working people

:46:22. > :46:28.demanded our only the party in Parliament. There was no need. The

:46:29. > :46:32.enemies of progress said then as they said now, for a live political

:46:33. > :46:35.party which exist solely in order to address inequality in society and

:46:36. > :46:42.advance the interests of working people and their families. It was a

:46:43. > :46:43.lie then and it is a line-out. -- it is a lie, now.

:46:44. > :46:58.APPLAUSE History tells us it has always been

:46:59. > :47:01.those whose vested interest is in the economic and health status quo

:47:02. > :47:04.who said there is no need for Labour. That's no different today,

:47:05. > :47:07.and sometimes, of course, if they say it often enough, and if they say

:47:08. > :47:12.it sweatily enough, they are believed by the very people who have

:47:13. > :47:16.the most to lose from that lie. The historic role of Labour has always

:47:17. > :47:20.been to offer a genuine radical alternative to the Tories to Tory

:47:21. > :47:24.priorities and the interests that they represent. That is a

:47:25. > :47:28.fundamental division in the politics that we believe in. It is what we

:47:29. > :47:32.have won that argument at the ballot box, that we have been able to

:47:33. > :47:37.change society for the better and to create a better future. And that's

:47:38. > :47:40.exactly what we must do again. When the argument about the future and we

:47:41. > :47:45.will win the votes of the people that we seek to represent. We failed

:47:46. > :47:50.to do that in Scotland at the general election and everyone paid a

:47:51. > :47:55.painful price. But the income of that election also confirmed a very

:47:56. > :48:00.basic point. It is if Labour loses the Tories win. Those lessons of the

:48:01. > :48:07.recent and distant past are important. But it is the future that

:48:08. > :48:11.counts. Moulding t shaping it, realising its potential for everyone

:48:12. > :48:14.and of course, we have a responsibility to criticise the

:48:15. > :48:18.record of the nationalists, after eight years in power, and I'll never

:48:19. > :48:24.shy away from pointing out again and again that huge gap which exists

:48:25. > :48:39.between what they say and what they do.

:48:40. > :48:44.APPLAUSE But what motivates me, it is not the cut and the thrust of

:48:45. > :48:48.that kind of politics, it is the possibility of something better. The

:48:49. > :48:53.belief that tomorrow can and shuds be better than today. I look at our

:48:54. > :48:58.great, great country and see not just problems that I want to fix,

:48:59. > :49:02.but good things that I believe can be made even better. That are, for

:49:03. > :49:10.me, is what makes this country so special. That's why I love it and

:49:11. > :49:14.its people. Our capacity for positive self criticism, constant

:49:15. > :49:18.self examination, that keeps our society for all its faults, the envy

:49:19. > :49:23.of the world for the very reason that it is still a work in progress.

:49:24. > :49:30.And it is that story of progress that I want to tell today. Because

:49:31. > :49:34.friends, the future is coming. That isn't in any doubt, the only

:49:35. > :49:41.question is whether we are ready for it. And all around the world people

:49:42. > :49:45.are fearful of the pace of change. They see their jobs unthreat, their

:49:46. > :49:49.standing of living under pressure, their communities changing in ways

:49:50. > :49:54.that they can't understand, they see their children facing a more

:49:55. > :49:57.uncertain future than they did. Borders no longer keep problems the

:49:58. > :50:01.other side of the mountains, across the river or over the sea. Around

:50:02. > :50:05.the world, people are turning to populist parties are turning their

:50:06. > :50:11.back on the outside world seeking protection. People are turning to

:50:12. > :50:16.parties who offer comforting political stories, but who in

:50:17. > :50:20.reality offer little real progress, we look at things differently. We

:50:21. > :50:25.look at world with excitement and see a future filled with

:50:26. > :50:30.opportunities. If only we have the courage and the confidence to

:50:31. > :50:34.prepare for that change. And, if we prepare for the future with

:50:35. > :50:36.confidence, rather than fear, we know that there is nothing that we

:50:37. > :50:51.can't do together. APPLAUSE Because we look to the

:50:52. > :50:57.possibilities of the future. Not the politics of the past. It is why we

:50:58. > :51:01.in this party welcome refugees with open arms. Not just because we have

:51:02. > :51:05.a duty to protect those fleeing for their lives, but because we know

:51:06. > :51:11.that each new community that joined Scotland has enriched the whole. It

:51:12. > :51:16.is why we remain a party, not of nationalism, but of

:51:17. > :51:32.internationalism. APPLAUSE Scottish Labour is

:51:33. > :51:35.Scotland's internationalist party. The party of shared sovereignty, of

:51:36. > :51:40.working together with our neighbours for the good of all. And whilst

:51:41. > :51:44.others will play politics with their future in Europe, I say today that I

:51:45. > :51:45.will work every day to make the positive case for our union within

:51:46. > :51:58.the European Union. APPLAUSE

:51:59. > :52:04.We are the only force in Scotland who believe in that case with both

:52:05. > :52:07.head and heart. Friends, our opponents want next year's Scottish

:52:08. > :52:11.elections to be a re-run of the argument of last year. The Tories

:52:12. > :52:13.will want to talk about the past because they don't want to defend

:52:14. > :52:17.the terrible record of David Cameron's Government. The SNP want

:52:18. > :52:21.to talk about the arguments of the past because they can't defend the

:52:22. > :52:26.thread bare record of the Scottish Government. We'll talk about the

:52:27. > :52:32.future. Because Scotland is falling behind whilst the world is moving

:52:33. > :52:36.on. The SNP exist together to get to the next election, their next

:52:37. > :52:40.referendum, governing is only ever a staging post, never a purpose. We

:52:41. > :52:44.want to govern because we believe in the possibilities that come from

:52:45. > :52:49.power. Because we know that we can make life better than this.

:52:50. > :52:54.There is no point in politics if it is all about the argument and never

:52:55. > :52:58.about the delivery. The whole purpose of politics for me is to

:52:59. > :53:04.open up opportunities and to make sure that it is possible for

:53:05. > :53:09.everyone to share in them. That is where so many people in Scotland are

:53:10. > :53:13.being failed at present. Because change is happening so fast and the

:53:14. > :53:17.danger is that more and more of our people who are not equipped to deal

:53:18. > :53:21.with it, will be unable to benefit from it our play their part. So we

:53:22. > :53:29.need to close the gap between the richest and the rest, not because we

:53:30. > :53:36.fuel the fire of that injustice but because an unequal society holds us

:53:37. > :53:45.all back. APPLAUSE A more equal society means

:53:46. > :53:49.a happier society for everyone and a more dynamic economy for all.

:53:50. > :53:54.Labour's great achievements in the last century left behind equalising

:53:55. > :53:59.institutions, that have endured for generations. In our world of change,

:54:00. > :54:02.we need to invest in the one thing that will remain constant, our

:54:03. > :54:06.people. To help them to be resilient, to

:54:07. > :54:09.meet the challenges and opportunities of longer lives with

:54:10. > :54:13.better health and working a life with several careers, to take up

:54:14. > :54:20.jobs that haven't even been invented yet. Look back 20 years and you are

:54:21. > :54:24.in the early days of the internet. Look forward 20 years, none of us

:54:25. > :54:30.can envisage what technology will have created. Those who are inside

:54:31. > :54:32.that loop, will prosper. Those who are outside it, will once again be

:54:33. > :54:37.left behind. I want to use the power of

:54:38. > :54:41.Government in order to guarantee and I do mean guarantee that there will

:54:42. > :54:48.not be another generation of even deeper exclusion. I want everyone in

:54:49. > :54:52.Scotland, rural and urban, new Scots and old Scots, men and women and the

:54:53. > :54:57.rich and the rest to be part of the opportunities of the future. And I

:54:58. > :55:01.get frustrated when I see it written that having a First Minister who is

:55:02. > :55:08.a woman means that women can achieve anything. If only they work harder.

:55:09. > :55:10.I ask, do you not think women work hard enough now?

:55:11. > :55:36.APPLAUSE Do you really think that women earn

:55:37. > :55:41.12% less than men because they don't work as hard?

:55:42. > :55:43.What about the women who no matter how hard they work will never

:55:44. > :55:48.achieve their potential because of the barriers put in front of them?

:55:49. > :55:52.Wet can't create the economy of the future whilst half our population is

:55:53. > :56:01.locked out of high skilled, high paid jobs. We need 147,000 more

:56:02. > :56:04.engineers in Scotland by 2022. Just a fraction of those studying

:56:05. > :56:10.engineering, science and technology, preparing for the jobs of the future

:56:11. > :56:16.are women. Just 4% of engineering apprenticeships are taken by women.

:56:17. > :56:20.Having three female leaders should mean that we win more victories for

:56:21. > :56:25.women. It can't mean that we declare

:56:26. > :56:28.victory prematurely. The inequality that women face has become part of

:56:29. > :56:33.the political mainstream now, but that means politics can now get in

:56:34. > :56:38.the way of progress. Childcare in Scotland is now focussed in a number

:56:39. > :56:44.of hours available, but little care about quality, affordability or

:56:45. > :56:48.flexibility. The childcare proposals we put forward are made to fit

:56:49. > :57:02.around the lives of working parents, not made to fit an election leaflet.

:57:03. > :57:06.APPLAUSE And conference, when the Scotland

:57:07. > :57:09.Bill returns next week, Ian Murray will push again for gender balance

:57:10. > :57:20.in the Scottish Parliament and on the boards in the public sector.

:57:21. > :57:27.APPLAUSE Last time we tried, Labour supported

:57:28. > :57:32.the Tories opposed and the SNP who claimed to support equality, well,

:57:33. > :57:36.they abstained. I will say it again conference, we don't just need women

:57:37. > :57:52.in power, we need feminists in positions of influence.

:57:53. > :57:59.APPLAUSE Because we don't exist in politics to congratulate ourselves

:58:00. > :58:04.on the status quo. I get frustrated when I hear boasts that almost 75%

:58:05. > :58:09.of Scotland's premises have access to fibre broadband. My first thought

:58:10. > :58:15.is, what about the other 25%? Do they not matter? What about the

:58:16. > :58:22.rural communities desperately trying to hold on to their jung people, to

:58:23. > :58:27.their future? Where the possibility is tantalising, but the prospect o

:58:28. > :58:31.so distant. What about the families who can see the broadband box at the

:58:32. > :58:35.end of their street, but can't get connected? We can be more ambitious

:58:36. > :58:38.and as Labour we will ensure that every home and every business in

:58:39. > :58:49.Scotland as access to the fastest broadband.

:58:50. > :58:53.APPLAUSE Friends, the most important economic

:58:54. > :58:59.choice we can make is to prepare our people for the future with a

:59:00. > :59:04.world-class education. Our focus on educational inequality is not a

:59:05. > :59:09.social policy, it is our economic strategy.

:59:10. > :59:14.Scotland cannot succeed while we squander the potential of so many of

:59:15. > :59:20.our citizens. My passion is for education. I was raised by teachers.

:59:21. > :59:26.I learned from an early age that the power of education to enrich lives

:59:27. > :59:30.to overcome inequality, to liberate people from a predetermined destiny.

:59:31. > :59:33.If there is one thing that a Government should be judged on above

:59:34. > :59:38.all else, it is their record on education. The degree to which their

:59:39. > :59:41.stewardship of our schools, colleges and universities lifts the next

:59:42. > :59:46.generation to fly further than the last. Inspire them to reach for

:59:47. > :59:53.their dreams, their parents could never even imagine. And equip them

:59:54. > :59:59.for a life rich in ways that we do not yet understand. If there is a

:00:00. > :00:03.silver bullet to slay the monsters of poverty, inequality and

:00:04. > :00:08.ignorance, then it is education. If there is a magic key to a fuller

:00:09. > :00:15.more fulfilling life then it is education. That is why this movement

:00:16. > :00:20.has had education for all at its very heart since we set-up lending

:00:21. > :00:22.libraries, Workers' Educational Associations, night schools, the

:00:23. > :00:29.Open University, and trade union learning and I say to the SNP after

:00:30. > :00:32.eight years in charge, I will judge you on your record and I will judge

:00:33. > :00:55.you love all on your record on education.

:00:56. > :01:01.APPLAUSE Because every child that you left behind, well that neglect,

:01:02. > :01:06.it offends this Labour movement. Every single one of the 6,000

:01:07. > :01:12.children who left a Scottish primary school this year on your watch First

:01:13. > :01:23.Minister, unable to read properly, well that record disgraces this

:01:24. > :01:30.nation and it constrains its future. APPLAUSE

:01:31. > :01:41.Alex Salmond. LAUGHTER Alex Salmond that a monument to

:01:42. > :01:44.himself in one of our universities, with his tuition fee pledge

:01:45. > :01:49.honoured. Let me tell you what I will put in our universities. Every

:01:50. > :01:53.youngster from our poorest families who has the potential to get there.

:01:54. > :01:55.That is the legacy I want to leave in our universities. CHEERING AND

:01:56. > :02:10.APPLAUSE And until their chance of getting

:02:11. > :02:14.there no longer depends on which school they went to, how much their

:02:15. > :02:20.family earns, or what someone decided their place was when they

:02:21. > :02:22.were five, then you won't find me carving complacency and

:02:23. > :02:33.self-congratulation into stone. APPLAUSE

:02:34. > :02:39.Conference, the rocks will melt in the sun before I accept even one

:02:40. > :02:43.working-class boy or girl who can't get to university, just because

:02:44. > :02:46.their family was not rich enough, their school wasn't posh enough or

:02:47. > :02:49.the system just did not believe in them enough.

:02:50. > :03:04.APPLAUSE And I am glad that after eight years

:03:05. > :03:08.of congratulating themselves, the SNP now have two admit that there is

:03:09. > :03:13.a problem, that something has to be done about the achievement gap in

:03:14. > :03:18.our schools, about widening access to university, about falling

:03:19. > :03:22.standards of literacy and humorously. They just don't get that

:03:23. > :03:27.every school in this country as some children who face barriers to

:03:28. > :03:31.achievement. I have looked around the world for what works and here is

:03:32. > :03:32.achievement. I have looked around the different approach that I

:03:33. > :04:10.propose, new full Scottish So we won't hand the money to local

:04:11. > :04:13.councils. We will hand it to the headteachers, giving them the

:04:14. > :04:16.freedom to prepare with their staff and plan for how they will use the

:04:17. > :04:18.money. And let's tell them that this is not a fun for one year or two

:04:19. > :06:08.years or 44-macro years, but is not a fun for one year or two

:06:09. > :06:13.that wants to go on to higher education will get full grant

:06:14. > :06:34.support worth ?6,000 a year. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

:06:35. > :06:42.We will pay for this education plan by making different choices from the

:06:43. > :06:48.SNP. We will ask those very top earners to pay a bit more tax. A tax

:06:49. > :06:53.rise on the richest, not because we are against aspiration but because

:06:54. > :06:56.we are for it. For every child in Scotland having a world-class

:06:57. > :07:06.education. APPLAUSE

:07:07. > :07:11.With the new powers that are coming to the Scottish parliament comes a

:07:12. > :07:17.real chance to change things. That means real choices need to be made.

:07:18. > :07:22.I have made clear that I leave Scottish Labour. The decisions will

:07:23. > :07:27.be made in Scotland and we will have a more autonomous Scottish Labour

:07:28. > :07:30.Party. But simplistic claims to be doing the best for Scotland are

:07:31. > :07:35.meaningless if the power to change things for those who need our help

:07:36. > :07:39.goes unused. The SNP are obsessed with power but they are too scared

:07:40. > :07:53.to use it. APPLAUSE

:07:54. > :08:02.Because what is Scotland after all? It is just us. It is not a concept.

:08:03. > :08:09.It is not an ideal. It is not a dream. It is just people, individual

:08:10. > :08:13.people, deciding whether they genuinely CV humans they share their

:08:14. > :08:17.country with as equals. Whether they want to help people less fortunate

:08:18. > :08:20.than themselves, less able than themselves, whether they want to

:08:21. > :08:25.offer them a hand up, to stand beside them, or whether they want to

:08:26. > :08:30.push them down as they fight some way to the top of some pile. Those

:08:31. > :08:38.who base their politics nationality rather than need, I ask this: Who in

:08:39. > :08:43.Scotland are you standing up for? The SNP have joined with the Tories,

:08:44. > :08:50.not just once but four times, to vote against introducing a 50p top

:08:51. > :08:54.rate for education. Pretending that you stand for everyone means that

:08:55. > :08:55.you end up standing for nothing and for no one.

:08:56. > :09:14.APPLAUSE You know, friends, if talking about

:09:15. > :09:17.a fairer Scotland was what made the difference, then Nicola Sturgeon

:09:18. > :09:21.would have made Scotland the fairest country in the world by now. But

:09:22. > :09:27.talking about it is not enough. You need to change, to act, to do things

:09:28. > :09:32.differently. When there are choices to be made, here is Scottish

:09:33. > :09:37.Labour's decision. We stand with everyone who needs government to get

:09:38. > :09:40.by all get on in life. We want everyone to be able to aspire to

:09:41. > :09:47.something better, but we will be, as Jeremy stares, straight and honest

:09:48. > :09:52.in talking about it. Someone has to pay. -- as Jeremy says. If it is not

:09:53. > :09:58.both at the very top, it will be the rest of us and our children, who

:09:59. > :10:02.will lose out. Because it is easy to rail against austerity, to pose as a

:10:03. > :10:06.socialist, when no one ever asks you how you will pay for the fairer

:10:07. > :10:12.future you claim to believe in. The political posturing has to end with

:10:13. > :10:15.the new, powerful Scottish Parliament and the power of the

:10:16. > :10:20.change. A fairer Scotland is not one where everyone pays more tax. In

:10:21. > :10:25.fact, we want hundreds of thousands of working Scots to pay less tax.

:10:26. > :10:29.That is what we did the last time the Labour government had the power

:10:30. > :10:35.to change things. We introduced tax credits to help working families,

:10:36. > :10:40.tax credits were a tax cut that worked, using the system to boost

:10:41. > :10:44.people's earnings. They lifted hundreds of thousands of children

:10:45. > :10:49.out of poverty. They allowed families to aspire to more than just

:10:50. > :10:52.making it to the end of the month. At the general election, David

:10:53. > :10:57.Cameron was asked if he would cut tax credits. We have all seen the

:10:58. > :11:03.videos. He has broken his promise and it is working families who will

:11:04. > :11:08.pay the price. In Scotland, nearly 350,000 families rely on the money

:11:09. > :11:11.from tax credits. The average family will be more than ?100 per month

:11:12. > :11:17.worse off as a result of these changes. 70% of the money saved by

:11:18. > :11:22.this tax rise on working people will come from the pockets of working

:11:23. > :11:26.mothers. In a few weeks, just before Christmas, families are due letters

:11:27. > :11:30.on their doormats, telling them how much they are going to lose. After

:11:31. > :11:35.months of supporting George Osborne, Ruth Davidson is now trying

:11:36. > :11:41.to distance herself and the Scottish Tories from him, while some other

:11:42. > :11:47.MSPs flew down to London to vote for them. -- of her MSPs. She knows this

:11:48. > :11:49.and veterinary tax rise will be as unpopular for her next year as the

:11:50. > :11:54.poll tax was for previous generations of Tories. We don't yet

:11:55. > :11:58.know how they will react to the defeat Labour handed them in the

:11:59. > :12:03.House of Lords. But let the message go-to David Cameron: Keep your

:12:04. > :12:04.promise, stop this tax rise on working families.

:12:05. > :12:22.APPLAUSE But friends, we should remember that

:12:23. > :12:26.David Cameron was not the only one who made a promise at the election.

:12:27. > :12:29.Those Labour and the SNP promised families a break from Tory

:12:30. > :12:34.austerity. We should keep that promise. The Scottish parliament

:12:35. > :12:41.will soon have the new powers which give us the chance to break with the

:12:42. > :12:44.Tories' unfair taxes. At the SNP conference, John Swinney was asked

:12:45. > :12:49.if he would make a different choice on tax credits from the Tories. He

:12:50. > :12:58.offered only excuses, saying they could not afford to do it. If the

:12:59. > :13:01.SNP government can't even commit to doing things differently from a Tory

:13:02. > :13:06.government, what does it say about their ambitions for Scotland? What

:13:07. > :13:10.does it say about them? We have a government in Scotland which looks

:13:11. > :13:14.at a problem and sees only the politics. We need a government that

:13:15. > :13:20.looks at a problem and sees the possibilities. I see things

:13:21. > :13:25.differently. I don't look to make political capital out of a

:13:26. > :13:30.grievance. When I see a problem, I ask, what can be done? So let me say

:13:31. > :13:34.today to Scotland what we will do. If the Tories don't see sense

:13:35. > :13:38.Scottish Labour will stand for the elections with a promise to restore

:13:39. > :13:42.the money Scottish families stand to lose from this Tory tax rise on

:13:43. > :14:21.working families. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

:14:22. > :14:29.And we will act as soon as the new powers make it possible. We don't

:14:30. > :14:33.need to tax ordinary Scots more to make this change. We just need to

:14:34. > :14:37.make different choices from the Tories and different choices from

:14:38. > :14:41.the SNP. The SNP have said they would cut the tax paid on airline

:14:42. > :14:48.tickets, a policy which will eventually cost ?250 million per

:14:49. > :14:56.year. I know this is a policy which many will welcome, not least the

:14:57. > :15:00.airport operators. But I say this: A tax cut for those who can already

:15:01. > :15:03.afford to shop for airline tickets cannot be Scotland's priority when

:15:04. > :15:04.families cannot afford the weekly shop.

:15:05. > :15:26.APPLAUSE So we will spend the money the SNP

:15:27. > :15:31.would instead spend on abolishing air passenger duty and we won't

:15:32. > :15:35.implement George Osborne's new tax cut for those on the higher rate of

:15:36. > :15:41.income tax. We will do things differently. Before the UK

:15:42. > :15:45.elections, our opponents said there was no difference between Labour and

:15:46. > :15:49.the Tories. I hope they can see that difference now.

:15:50. > :16:01.APPLAUSE A Labour government introduced tax

:16:02. > :16:06.credits. A Tory government will cut them. At the Scottish elections, if

:16:07. > :16:11.people ask, what is the difference between a Scottish Labour government

:16:12. > :16:14.and an SNP government, this is the difference. A Scottish Labour

:16:15. > :16:18.government will restore the much-needed tax credits and an SNP

:16:19. > :16:20.government, left to their own devices, would leave the Tory cuts

:16:21. > :16:32.in place. APPLAUSE

:16:33. > :16:39.So let the message go out. By using both votes for Scottish Labour in

:16:40. > :16:43.May's election, you are voting to use the new powers of the Scottish

:16:44. > :16:51.Parliament to restore the money lost through tax credit cuts. Every

:16:52. > :16:55.Labour MSP who is elected will ensure that's what the Scottish

:16:56. > :17:10.Government does. It offers a break from Tory austerity, not a Scottish

:17:11. > :17:11.Government that offers only excuses. APPLAUSE

:17:12. > :17:15.The possibilities are open to us with now powers, the opportunities

:17:16. > :17:19.of the future are so big that the challenges are so great, that it is

:17:20. > :17:22.not good enough anymore to have leaders who can congratulate

:17:23. > :17:25.themselves on managing the status quo. To have ministers who are

:17:26. > :17:30.campaigning when they should be governing. Real financial

:17:31. > :17:33.responsibility means we can make different choices, but it doesn't

:17:34. > :17:37.mean that they will always be easy choices. We will offer a reverse to

:17:38. > :17:41.the Tory tax rise on working people that we know we also have to make

:17:42. > :17:57.our money go further, especially in the NHS. Our NHS staff perform

:17:58. > :18:01.miracles every hour of every day. APPLAUSE

:18:02. > :18:04.The treatments and cures our research scientists create and our

:18:05. > :18:10.doctors deliver are simply awesome, but progress comes at a cost. To pay

:18:11. > :18:15.for new drugs, new equipment, and for population that is ageing and

:18:16. > :18:18.living longer, nowhere are the challenges of the future more

:18:19. > :18:23.obvious than in our NHS, yet we have a Scottish Government who are

:18:24. > :18:27.managing sterm crisises rather than securing the future. The SNP have

:18:28. > :18:31.squeezed health spending by more than even the Tories in England. I

:18:32. > :18:37.will say that again because it is hard to believe. Even this Tory

:18:38. > :18:42.Government, the most hostile to the NHS in a generation has increased

:18:43. > :18:51.spending on the NHS in England more than the SNP have in Scotland. Isn't

:18:52. > :19:02.APPLAUSE APPLAUSE

:19:03. > :19:05.Last week, the SNP Government's own auditors confirmed that Nicola

:19:06. > :19:11.Sturgeon has now cut NHS spending in real terms. Last week the Royal

:19:12. > :19:15.College of Nursing also told us that years ago, they had warned the then

:19:16. > :19:20.Health Minister, now our First Minister, that cutting the number of

:19:21. > :19:23.student nurses would undermine the future of the NHS, and we can see

:19:24. > :19:27.week after week the impact of the choice they made in hospitals and

:19:28. > :19:33.health centres across Scotland. What used to be a winter crisis in our

:19:34. > :19:38.hospitals continued into the spring, and then into the summer. The SNP

:19:39. > :19:45.under pressure from Labour have now promised a ten year plan for the

:19:46. > :19:53.NHS. It will be published next year. Nine years in Government, to come up

:19:54. > :20:02.with a ten year plan! APPLAUSE That tells you everything

:20:03. > :20:07.you need to know about the priority the SNP place on the NHS.

:20:08. > :20:14.The frustrating thing is we know what needs to be donement here is an

:20:15. > :20:19.incredible statistic 2% of the patients in the NHS account for 50%

:20:20. > :20:23.of NHS spending. We know who these patients are, we

:20:24. > :20:27.can follow them through the system, we can intervene to improve their

:20:28. > :20:33.health and save the NHS money. We know why our accident and emergency

:20:34. > :20:36.departments are under strain because the beds that new patients should be

:20:37. > :20:40.sent to have elderly patients lying in them who are fit to go home where

:20:41. > :20:43.they should be supported by care workers, but rather than having a

:20:44. > :20:48.long-term strategy for improving care for the elderly, the big

:20:49. > :20:51.challenge for the NHS over the next generation, we spend

:20:52. > :20:56.Secretary-General teams into A departments whilst the strain grows

:20:57. > :21:03.and grows. So we'll take a different approach. We don't want to manage

:21:04. > :21:08.the NHS of the 1940s, but to build an NHS ready for the challenges of

:21:09. > :21:12.the 2040s, odds our population gets older, we want our parents and

:21:13. > :21:16.grandparents to have a regular, friendly face with a time to care

:21:17. > :21:20.for them. So we will take forward one of Unison's ideas in their

:21:21. > :21:26.report into the future of care. We know that one in five care workers

:21:27. > :21:30.will leave their job each year. Let's make caring a career that more

:21:31. > :21:34.will choose for the longer term. Let's put more money into the

:21:35. > :21:38.pockets of low paid workers and local economies. So I can announce

:21:39. > :21:45.today that Scottish Labour will guarantee a real Living Wage for

:21:46. > :22:08.care workers. APPLAUSE Because it is Labour's

:22:09. > :22:13.mission that those post-war babies born to the NHS will be cared for

:22:14. > :22:18.into their 70s and yopd with the dignity and respect that they

:22:19. > :22:22.deserve by people with time to care. And by improving care, we will

:22:23. > :22:26.relieve the pressure on our frontline NHS and investing can save

:22:27. > :22:29.hundreds of millions of pounds in the costs of delayed discharge

:22:30. > :22:33.allowing us to meet not just the costs of care, but to fund a new

:22:34. > :22:39.secures and the treatments that the NHS can offer in the years ahead.

:22:40. > :22:42.Labour is the party of the NHS. Nye Bevan, after he created the NHS

:22:43. > :22:46.famously said if a bed pan was dropped in a hospital ward, he

:22:47. > :22:52.wanted to hear it in the corridors of Whitehall. Today, you could drop

:22:53. > :22:59.a skip load of bed pans into Holyrood and the SNP wouldn't hear a

:23:00. > :23:15.thing! APPLAUSE We have a Government that

:23:16. > :23:22.is deaf to the alarm bells ringing in the NHS, whose mind is on the

:23:23. > :23:28.next press release. We will protect and invest in an NHS which can meet

:23:29. > :23:32.the challenges of the future. Friends, the first step to returning

:23:33. > :23:36.to power is to prove that you are an effective opposition. But we don't

:23:37. > :23:41.exist to force the SNP to match their left-wing rhetoric with real

:23:42. > :23:46.action. We would rather take the decisions ourselves. I don't want

:23:47. > :23:51.Scottish Labour to keep rolling the NHS boulder up the hill. I want

:23:52. > :23:56.Scottish Labour to be out ahead. We are the party of action, not

:23:57. > :24:05.protest. We are the party of progress, not bumper stickers and

:24:06. > :24:18.T-shirt slogans! APPLAUSE Friends, next year's

:24:19. > :24:24.elections will be hard. But I have no intention of making it easy for

:24:25. > :24:33.the SNP either. APPLAUSE But you know what, the SNP

:24:34. > :24:39.are starting to make the kind of mistakes we did when we dominated

:24:40. > :24:43.Scottish politics. They say the reasons not to act rather than the

:24:44. > :24:48.way to make change. The dominance of one party in all ministerial

:24:49. > :24:51.positions, a majority in our Parliament, in Parliamentary

:24:52. > :24:56.Committees, across public life and civil society, that was not the

:24:57. > :25:01.pluralistic vision of the constitutional convention, and

:25:02. > :25:05.whilst the SNP went from strength to strength, the increasing arrogant

:25:06. > :25:08.way in which they exercise that strength, well that's been their

:25:09. > :25:11.choice, Freedom of Information Requests are refused, Parliamentary

:25:12. > :25:18.questions are stone walled, journalists come under attack for

:25:19. > :25:23.simply asking difficult questions. At First Minister's Questions

:25:24. > :25:27.whatever issue I raise, the response has been the same complacent answer,

:25:28. > :25:30.look at our poll ratings. Friends, in a modern democracy, we need a

:25:31. > :25:36.Government in Scotland that spends more time explaining itself and less

:25:37. > :25:51.time congratulating itself. APPLAUSE In the months ahead, we

:25:52. > :25:53.will set out a different vision for our economy, and for our public

:25:54. > :26:00.services. But we will also set out a different

:26:01. > :26:03.vision for our democracy. Starting with Graham Pearson's review into

:26:04. > :26:07.the single police force, we will put power and resources back into the

:26:08. > :26:13.hands of local decision makers. Jackie Baillie will set out the

:26:14. > :26:19.principles of Scottish Labour's reforms to local finance. We will

:26:20. > :26:22.recapture the early days of devolution, renewing our Scottish

:26:23. > :26:27.democracy for a new generation of leadership. But to those who want

:26:28. > :26:32.more accountable Government, let me say this - the only way to stop the

:26:33. > :26:43.SNP having it all their own way is to use both your votes for Scottish

:26:44. > :26:56.Labour in next May's election. APPLAUSE Friends, we are changing.

:26:57. > :27:00.Getting back to the values that did so much for Scotland, back as the

:27:01. > :27:05.radical alternative to those those ambitions goes no further than

:27:06. > :27:10.managing the status quo. We are looking at anew at our nation and we

:27:11. > :27:14.see a future of possibility. We have a unique opportunity to show how

:27:15. > :27:17.what we believe in, the power of Government, those new powers of our

:27:18. > :27:22.Parliament can change Scotland and change the lives of working Scots

:27:23. > :27:25.for the better. And when we talk about the change we will make with

:27:26. > :27:31.the incredible power and potential that lives in Scotland, people will

:27:32. > :27:35.take a fresh look at us. But they will do something else - they will

:27:36. > :27:40.take another look at our opponents and ask, when you take away all the

:27:41. > :27:47.empty rhetoric and fancy packaging, what do they really stand for?

:27:48. > :27:52.I have never been more excited, more proud and more optimistic about our

:27:53. > :27:56.party and our people. What an opportunity we have. Let's make the

:27:57. > :28:01.change and let's walk with confidence into the future.

:28:02. > :28:18.APPLAUSE A standing ovation for Kezia Dugdale

:28:19. > :28:25.there. Let's get reaction to the speech now from Professor John

:28:26. > :28:29.Curtice. Impressed? Well, I think the question you alluded to before

:28:30. > :28:32.we heard the speech was well, what's the

:28:33. > :28:48.we heard the speech was well, what's country it wants

:28:49. > :28:52.we heard the speech was well, what's of her speech. . The first is I'm

:28:53. > :28:56.not sure there was a take away line, a phrase, a memorable bit of the

:28:57. > :29:03.speech that we will always say... Tax credits? That's a proposal, but

:29:04. > :29:09.it is not a memorable phrase, it is not a few words or a phrase or a

:29:10. > :29:13.sentence that encapsulates the idea of a kind of Scotland that Labour

:29:14. > :29:14.wants to create and the truth is all politicians at the end of

:29:15. > :31:18.wants to create and the truth is all the T-shirts, but you have worn the

:31:19. > :31:22.T-shirt? Yes, I have. Did what did you make TV? It was a fantastic

:31:23. > :31:25.speech and brilliant the way she laid it out and given us a vision

:31:26. > :31:29.for the future. I really like how she is talking about using the extra

:31:30. > :31:36.powers, but I believe we have already had the powers and the tax

:31:37. > :31:42.credits and changing that and investing in Kid Start and tackling

:31:43. > :31:47.the education gap, it is fantastic. Kate, what did you make of it? We

:31:48. > :31:53.will get to the detail in a minute. It was so inspiring and my favourite

:31:54. > :31:59.part was to hear the leader of my party call herself a pem nist,

:32:00. > :32:02.bringing up the pay gap. That was a remarkable section, she got

:32:03. > :32:05.thunderous applause for that. She says that Ian Murray will put

:32:06. > :32:08.forward proposal for a gender balanced Scottish Parliament. Well,

:32:09. > :32:14.you're nodding your head, what do you do to bring about a gender

:32:15. > :32:18.balanced Scottish Parliament without making constituencies be divided

:32:19. > :32:26.into male and female? In the Shadow Cabinet we have 50/50. There is...

:32:27. > :32:30.What do you do? What do you do to bring about a gender balance? The

:32:31. > :32:33.women going for the positions, making sure we are attracting women

:32:34. > :32:37.and they are trained to go into politics, it is one of the most

:32:38. > :32:39.under represented parts and Labour leads the way and it is great to

:32:40. > :32:47.hear Kez making the case for The issue of the tax credit, is that

:32:48. > :32:52.the big offer and narrative that you think will help Labour at the

:32:53. > :32:56.election? One of many, absolutely. Let's stick with tax credits. Why is

:32:57. > :33:03.it going to make such a big difference? My daughter is a

:33:04. > :33:06.single-parent and she will hear just before gritters watches them to lose

:33:07. > :33:10.in tax credits. When we have a Labour government in Scotland it's

:33:11. > :33:13.due, she won't lose it. Don't you accept the argument that perhaps

:33:14. > :33:18.wages should be increased rather than topping up benefits from the

:33:19. > :33:22.state? Wages should always be increased but until we get to a

:33:23. > :33:26.reasonable level of wages, people that don't have it need support and

:33:27. > :33:31.tax credits are the way to do it. Margaret, again, to pick up the

:33:32. > :33:35.point, I am hearing about money on carers and on the NHS and money to

:33:36. > :33:39.help children in care go to university. What I'm not hearing in

:33:40. > :33:45.this beach is any arguments about growing the economy to pay for that

:33:46. > :33:48.in the first place. I think, as you touched on education, for me, that

:33:49. > :33:55.was key, that is how we grow the economy. If we equip our children,

:33:56. > :33:59.particularly the looked after children, who has been left behind

:34:00. > :34:03.for many, many years, that is how we equip the economy for growth. I

:34:04. > :34:08.understand the argument but that is a long-term, generational thing

:34:09. > :34:11.whereas paying for kids in care... I'm not saying any of these are bad

:34:12. > :34:19.ideas but if you pay for them, how do you find them? It's about

:34:20. > :34:23.priorities, isn't it? Kez said about the air passenger tax, she made the

:34:24. > :34:30.point about the people that are going to save through the air

:34:31. > :34:37.passenger reduction, they can afford to pay and shop around for flights.

:34:38. > :34:40.But looked after children can't. Tony, she also said something like

:34:41. > :34:46.it is not going to be easy next May, given the state the party is in and

:34:47. > :34:49.the results last May. Was she saying that Labour can govern or was she

:34:50. > :34:52.saying that they can contain the rise of the SNP? She almost seemed

:34:53. > :34:57.to be saying the latter at one point. I never got that at all. I

:34:58. > :35:03.think it is quite clear that she is laying that Labour can govern. I

:35:04. > :35:07.think it is quite clear from her. What do you think the difference

:35:08. > :35:11.will be to the party from that speech? She delivered it fairly

:35:12. > :35:15.straightforwardly, not many great rhetorical impulses, just telling it

:35:16. > :35:19.straight, was how she described it. Is that fair? I think she gave so

:35:20. > :35:23.much passion and excitement to the members in the party. As long as Kez

:35:24. > :35:26.is our leader, there's a lot of excitement for the future of our

:35:27. > :35:30.party and I know I'm ready for next year, to see what we can do in 2016.

:35:31. > :35:35.Thank you for joining us. I will leave you to go, and Tony, I see you

:35:36. > :35:40.have the T-shirt already! Back to the studio.

:35:41. > :35:44.Kezia Dugdale spoke about closing the gap in educational achievement

:35:45. > :35:45.for children from rich and poorer backgrounds.

:35:46. > :35:48.The Joseph Rowntree Trust presented their research at a fringe event.

:35:49. > :35:51.In this summary from our political reporter Andrew Black, Professor Sue

:35:52. > :35:55.Ellis from Strathclyde University challenged the Scottish Government's

:35:56. > :35:57.policy, saying that tackling underachievement is not just

:35:58. > :36:12.The biggest impact factor on how fast a child in Scotland learns to

:36:13. > :36:18.read is the amount of money his parents or her parents earn. That is

:36:19. > :36:23.wrong, in a 21st-century. We must do something about it. The solution,

:36:24. > :36:29.the attainment gap matters because of the cycle of disadvantage that we

:36:30. > :36:34.know happens. You do poorly at school, unemployment often beckons,

:36:35. > :36:40.you get a low income, it has health and psychological consequences. It

:36:41. > :36:44.also matters because it means there's a large pool of unexplored

:36:45. > :36:50.talent. We are missing out on the future, artists, entrepreneurs of

:36:51. > :36:54.the future. Because so many children are not doing well in school. The

:36:55. > :37:00.geography of poverty in Scotland is very different in terms of education

:37:01. > :37:03.from the geography of poverty in England or America. In England and

:37:04. > :37:10.America, poverty is quite zonal, according to schools. In Scotland,

:37:11. > :37:14.it is not. Scotland has a much more comprehensive education system, so

:37:15. > :37:18.almost 60% of kids who are living in poverty don't go to schools in areas

:37:19. > :37:24.of poverty. Kezia Dugdale followed with some startling statistics and

:37:25. > :37:27.then a policy announcement. If you are looked after child in Scotland

:37:28. > :37:31.today, you are more likely to go to jail than university. That should

:37:32. > :37:36.shock every single person in that room and we should not stand for

:37:37. > :37:40.that until it is turned around. Thereafter 16,000 looked after

:37:41. > :37:45.children in Scotland just now, people with a looked after identity,

:37:46. > :37:47.and 156 of them are currently at higher education institutions. I

:37:48. > :37:51.have much higher aspirations for that. So one of the policies I've

:37:52. > :37:55.lived in the press today and will say more about in my speech tomorrow

:37:56. > :37:59.is that if you are a looked after Kidd, a child who has had no real

:38:00. > :38:02.mum and dad in your life other than the state, then we recognise the

:38:03. > :38:06.state is your parent and it should do a much better job than it has

:38:07. > :38:10.done until now looking after your educational interest. I have said

:38:11. > :38:12.that every child from a looked after background that wants to go to

:38:13. > :38:18.university will get a full grant. They won't have to borrow a penny to

:38:19. > :38:22.get there. That is a full grant of ?6,000, for every year they are at

:38:23. > :38:26.university, to make sure they can to fill their potential and not have to

:38:27. > :38:31.go into a penny of debt to do it. -- they can fulfil their potential.

:38:32. > :38:34.That was Kezia Dugdale, with the policy announcement of the ?6,000

:38:35. > :38:37.per year grant for looked after people who wanted to get a higher

:38:38. > :38:39.education. She spoke about that in the speech.

:38:40. > :38:41.Now, there will be debate on the renewal of Trident tomorrow,

:38:42. > :38:44.after the conference decided to adopt it as one of their

:38:45. > :38:46.It's an issue which splits the party.

:38:47. > :38:49.Brian is joined now by union delegates on both sides

:38:50. > :39:00.Thanks Gordon. A very big debate tomorrow, the members decided to

:39:01. > :39:04.give top priority to the question of Trident, when they were allowed to

:39:05. > :39:09.choose topics for debate. Gary Smith from the GMB and Dave Watson both

:39:10. > :39:13.join me. Gary, from your perspective, OK, it is Trident but

:39:14. > :39:17.it is based on the Clyde and it's a lot of jobs in that area. One of the

:39:18. > :39:20.argument is that those jobs would be in jeopardy if Labour changes its

:39:21. > :39:24.policy. Is that your union's position? Yes, and unlike everyone

:39:25. > :39:27.else who has passed comment on Trident we have written to and

:39:28. > :39:31.spoken to the members in every shipyard in Scotland this week. Our

:39:32. > :39:37.members back our position. This is not just about Faslane, this will

:39:38. > :39:41.impact the South, the AE systems on the Clyde and every other shipyard

:39:42. > :39:46.and many factories around the rest of the UK as well. These are real

:39:47. > :39:50.jobs for real people and we will be defending them tomorrow. Hundreds of

:39:51. > :39:55.jobs, thousands of jobs, potentially in jeopardy in Scotland. I don't

:39:56. > :39:58.think we accept that. The trade unions in Scotland have done a lot

:39:59. > :40:02.of work on this issue and the motion tomorrow reflects that. Work has

:40:03. > :40:09.been done to minimise any job issues and deal with diverse of occasion.

:40:10. > :40:12.Real jobs will be lost, the ?157 billion which Trident is now going

:40:13. > :40:18.to cost, which will result in huge amounts of job losses in the current

:40:19. > :40:21.situation. Don't you accept that? It's absolute nonsense. We are

:40:22. > :40:25.talking about Alice in Wonderland all ticks and buying the sky jobs.

:40:26. > :40:29.What trade union in their right mind would vote for jobs that no one can

:40:30. > :40:32.tell us what people are going to be doing? What are the terms and

:40:33. > :40:36.conditions for these jobs? They don't exist because the jobs don't

:40:37. > :40:40.exist. The idea of a redeployment fund. It's nonsense because workers

:40:41. > :40:45.in the shipbuilding industry know the alternative, diversification

:40:46. > :40:49.actually means unemployment and poverty in working-class communities

:40:50. > :40:51.in Scotland and the rest of the UK. Dave Watson, these are real jobs,

:40:52. > :40:57.the ones you are talking about or are they a fantasy? If you read the

:40:58. > :41:01.SDC report, you will see this is based on real studies, and real work

:41:02. > :41:04.elsewhere. I'm not saying there are no job consequences because there

:41:05. > :41:09.always are but we have to accept that Trident isn't it spreads status

:41:10. > :41:13.symbol which has no value in times of defence. -- is that expensive

:41:14. > :41:18.status and more. Even the Tories are saying, ?167 billion is five-year 's

:41:19. > :41:24.worth of Scottish budget going down the pan. Gary, Scotland and the UK

:41:25. > :41:28.can't afford it? I absolutely don't accept that, it is 6% of the defence

:41:29. > :41:32.budget but fundamentally, and I make no apologies for this, these are

:41:33. > :41:35.real jobs, real working-class people's jobs, working class

:41:36. > :41:39.communities, highly skilled employment which will be replaced by

:41:40. > :41:43.unemployment and low paid, low skilled reader work. I wish Dave was

:41:44. > :41:45.talking to me today about finding public service cuts and defending

:41:46. > :41:50.jobs in public services rather than playing fast and loose without

:41:51. > :41:54.members's jobs in the shipyard. What about the moral case and the moral

:41:55. > :41:58.argument? Some people say these weapons are morally wrong whatever

:41:59. > :42:04.the jobs? Nobody likes nuclear weapons but this is not a moral

:42:05. > :42:07.world in which we live. As I say, this is Alice in Wonderland

:42:08. > :42:11.politics. It is an unnecessary debate. The Scottish Government, the

:42:12. > :42:13.future Labour Scottish Government will have no influence over this

:42:14. > :42:19.issue. We should be talking about job losses in five in the buy

:42:20. > :42:25.fabrication yards, cuts in public services, not having this indulgent

:42:26. > :42:29.debate. A distraction, Dave? It's not, there is a moral case against

:42:30. > :42:33.Trident but at the end of the day, 106 to ?7 billion is a lot of jobs.

:42:34. > :42:35.If we were not spending it on Trident, we could spend it on

:42:36. > :42:39.conventional defence which would provide jobs in the industry. What

:42:40. > :42:44.of the Scottish conference, as it sped it, says no to Trident? That is

:42:45. > :42:48.the mood, it may not happen but that is the mood. Wouldn't it be the case

:42:49. > :42:52.that the British Labour Party, the UK level Labour Party would say, as

:42:53. > :42:59.they have said many times in the 80s and 90s, it is not for them? That is

:43:00. > :43:02.a matter for the UK Labour Party. If the Scottish party tomorrow decide

:43:03. > :43:05.this is the Scottish Labour Party's policy, it is the job of the

:43:06. > :43:11.Scottish Labour Party to make its case after UK level. I know this is

:43:12. > :43:14.unusual in the UK but if we were in Germany or Sweden, you would not be

:43:15. > :43:17.asking me these questions because people understand how federal

:43:18. > :43:22.systems work. Gary Smith, if the Scottish Labour Party votes to say

:43:23. > :43:27.no to Trident, do you hope it will be overturned at a UK level? There

:43:28. > :43:31.will be a Trident replacement. The issue is where Trident is going to

:43:32. > :43:34.be built. There are people in the defence establishment who would love

:43:35. > :43:38.to build things abroad because they have no commitment to Scottish jobs

:43:39. > :43:41.or UK manufacturing. Let's be absolutely clear about that. We

:43:42. > :43:45.should not be playing fast and loose with the jobs of ordinary people in

:43:46. > :43:48.Scotland. They are highly skilled manufacturing jobs, the kind of jobs

:43:49. > :43:51.the economy is crying out for. Thank you for joining us. Back to the

:43:52. > :43:55.studio. Jeremy Corbyn's speech yesterday

:43:56. > :43:57.was one for fans of what you There was praise for Keir Hardie,

:43:58. > :44:01.Nye Bevan, Jennie Lee Some references to the Scottish

:44:02. > :44:06.Government brought it up to date. There were also plenty of mentions

:44:07. > :44:10.of socialism, designed to appeal to left-wing voters who may have turned

:44:11. > :44:23.to the SNP after the referendum. When the Scotland Bill goes through

:44:24. > :44:25.the House of Commons, Britain will become one of the most evolved

:44:26. > :44:30.nations in the world. The Labour Party needs to change to respond to

:44:31. > :44:33.that, and respond to the way that politics is now done. That is why it

:44:34. > :44:37.is right that decisions about Scottish Labour will be taken by the

:44:38. > :44:40.members and activists of the Scottish Labour Party, a Scottish

:44:41. > :44:44.Labour Party where decisions about your policy, the management of your

:44:45. > :44:48.affairs and selection of your candidates will be undertaken here

:44:49. > :44:53.in Scotland. That is what I'm committed to, and what Kezia Dugdale

:44:54. > :44:56.and I intend to deliver, with the UK and Scottish Labour Party is

:44:57. > :44:59.cooperating, in solidarity with one another.

:45:00. > :45:03.APPLAUSE The radical tradition that has

:45:04. > :45:08.always been alive in Scotland has inspired me all my political life.

:45:09. > :45:12.Keir Hardie, our party's great founder, and I'm pleased we had a

:45:13. > :45:16.session on him this morning, and there's a great book at conference

:45:17. > :45:21.today which I hope you will read, he died 100 years ago this year. Born

:45:22. > :45:26.in poverty in Scotland, he was the emblem of what our Labour Party is

:45:27. > :45:32.about. For your information, he was also the last bearded leader of the

:45:33. > :45:36.Labour Party! LAUGHTER But by being born in Scotland, he

:45:37. > :45:43.also represented constituencies in England, like West Ham in London and

:45:44. > :45:47.Merthyr Tydfil in Wales. Our mission is the same as that which he laid

:45:48. > :45:51.out just 21 years into our party's life, when he said the movement

:45:52. > :45:58.would not rest until the sunshine of socialism and human freedom break

:45:59. > :46:02.forth upon our land. The sunshine of socialism, friends, I could not

:46:03. > :46:06.think of a better description for what our country needs, to break

:46:07. > :46:11.away from the narrow, nasty, divisive politics that the Tory

:46:12. > :46:20.government is giving us and the Tory party has always given us.

:46:21. > :46:23.APPLAUSE We have seen it since May, and it

:46:24. > :46:29.was on full display this week as they sought to portray a crisis,

:46:30. > :46:34.they are inflicting, and Ian was right about this, on 3 million

:46:35. > :46:38.families as a constitutional crisis. Keir Hardie's Sunshine of socialism

:46:39. > :46:41.was about providing people with decent housing. It was about

:46:42. > :46:46.promoting peace and defending jobs will stop there is no contradiction

:46:47. > :46:50.between those last two points. We know there are skilled jobs in the

:46:51. > :46:54.defence industry. We cannot be negligent about skills and jobs. We

:46:55. > :46:59.must secure every one of them. But don't tell me that we can't also put

:47:00. > :47:05.some of those skills to better and different use. Security of jobs, for

:47:06. > :47:08.innovators, engineers, technicians, security staff and civil servants

:47:09. > :47:15.are important. So no one should even consider allocating 1p of any money

:47:16. > :47:19.that may be saved by not renewing Trident until every one of those

:47:20. > :47:20.skills and jobs are protected through a proper programme of

:47:21. > :47:24.management of that change. Brian has been joined

:47:25. > :47:36.by another senior party member. Thank you very much indeed, joined

:47:37. > :47:44.by Iain Gray. Ian, thank you very much for joining us. We heard there

:47:45. > :47:48.from Jeremy Corbyn, talking about the Trident issue which I have been

:47:49. > :47:52.discussing with the unions. There was a lot in his speech about

:47:53. > :47:58.redbting benefits, I didn't hear much about growing the economy?

:47:59. > :48:01.Look, this was the first opportunity for Jeremy to demonstrate to

:48:02. > :48:04.Scottish Labour collectively the values and vision he brings to his

:48:05. > :48:08.leadership and I think he did that extremely well and clearly and

:48:09. > :48:12.cleverly, he did it using the words of Keir Hardie, I have to tell you

:48:13. > :48:19.that, that was popular, very popular. It seemed to go down well

:48:20. > :48:24.in the hall and also going down well the speech from Kezia Dugdale. On

:48:25. > :48:26.the business of restoring tax credits, using Scottish powers when

:48:27. > :48:32.they are enhanced, what are you talking about? It is not the Old

:48:33. > :48:38.Labour system is that gave benefits earning as much as ?50,000 or

:48:39. > :48:42.?60,000? This is straightforwardly, a replacement of those tax credits

:48:43. > :48:46.which George Osborne says that he is going to remove and what's

:48:47. > :48:51.interesting about this, of course, is that Kez made very clear shao

:48:52. > :48:54.that he was willing to take different decisions, different

:48:55. > :48:57.decisions from the Tories, different decisions from the SNP in order to

:48:58. > :49:04.help those who need that help most of all. You know, I think over the

:49:05. > :49:09.weeks and months of Kez's leadership, everyone has come to

:49:10. > :49:12.recognise her warmth and empathy. Today, I think she showed some of

:49:13. > :49:18.her steel and the conference loved it. She got a standing ovation for

:49:19. > :49:29.that announcement in the middle of her speech, that doesn't happen

:49:30. > :49:37.often for leaders of Scottish Labour. More money for those in

:49:38. > :49:41.care. A good idea on its own. More money for the NHS, more money for

:49:42. > :49:44.this, more money for that, more money for universities, etcetera,

:49:45. > :49:49.etcetera, not a word about growing the economy to raise that money. The

:49:50. > :49:54.only announcement was those in middle and high earnings would pay

:49:55. > :49:57.more on tax? You're wrong, Brian, because Kez made absolutely clear

:49:58. > :50:03.support for closing the attainment gap in education is an economic

:50:04. > :50:08.strategy because for every young person who has failed by our system,

:50:09. > :50:13.by our schools, by our colleges, by our higher education system, that is

:50:14. > :50:16.somebody who will not be able to make their full contribution to

:50:17. > :50:20.their own life, yes, but also to growing the economy. What Kez is

:50:21. > :50:23.saying is if we want to grow our economy, we must do it on the skills

:50:24. > :50:26.anded education of our people, that's a long-term investment and

:50:27. > :50:29.that's the kind of investment she announced today. She was talking

:50:30. > :50:34.about those in care going to university, at that university level

:50:35. > :50:38.and your own remit of education, is there any suggestion of as Labour

:50:39. > :50:43.previously considered a graduate tax of some kind, a graduate repayment

:50:44. > :50:46.of some kind? No, she said where that would be paid from. From the

:50:47. > :50:51.attainment funding which is already in place and in terms of support for

:50:52. > :50:56.children from poorer families in school and she said exactly where

:50:57. > :51:01.that would come from, it would come for from asking those who earn more

:51:02. > :51:05.than ?150,000 to pay a little more. It is really important about the

:51:06. > :51:10.economic point, she said, "We will do this, not because we are against

:51:11. > :51:16.aspiration, but because we are for aspiration for everyone of

:51:17. > :51:20.Scotland's children. ." Iain Gray, thank you. Let's get a last thought

:51:21. > :51:26.from Professor John Curtice. As you were saying earlier, with these new

:51:27. > :51:29.powers, you can raise taxes here, the debate has been about spending

:51:30. > :51:33.money for years, right since the start of the Scottish Parliament,

:51:34. > :51:39.not about having to pay for it, but the danger for Labour is a lot of

:51:40. > :51:47.people who have better off might say, "Well, oh, they're going to in

:51:48. > :51:51.effect put my taxes up, no thanks." That's the danger, but that

:51:52. > :51:54.announcement and what we have seen at the SNP and this conference helps

:51:55. > :51:58.to underline how different politics in Scotland is from that south of

:51:59. > :52:02.the border. South of the border the lesson the Labour Party has taken

:52:03. > :52:05.for good or real, we need to keep on talking about the economy, we have

:52:06. > :52:09.to demonstrate economic competence and we have to be able to appeal

:52:10. > :52:12.more effectively to so-called Middle England and to those with

:52:13. > :52:15.aspiration, particularly those on the Blairite wing of the party, they

:52:16. > :52:20.feel the party lost touch with that section of English society. Here in

:52:21. > :52:24.contrast, of course, the Labour Party was decimated... Sorry to

:52:25. > :52:28.interrupt you, that's the lesson the Labour Party learned. They just

:52:29. > :52:32.elected Jeremy Corbyn? Well, sorry, that's a lesson that significant

:52:33. > :52:35.sections of the Parliamentary Labour Party has taken.

:52:36. > :52:39.LAUGHTER Let me make that absolutely clear.

:52:40. > :52:43.That's point one. In contrast north of the border here, it is perfectly

:52:44. > :52:50.clear that the party which really did lose an election and lost an

:52:51. > :52:53.election in truth, we know, as a result primarily because of voters

:52:54. > :52:57.who are relatively speaking on the left who were enticed with that's

:52:58. > :53:00.the right word by the vision of a more equal Scotland that the SNP

:53:01. > :53:05.laid out in a referendum, going to the SNP and therefore, as a result,

:53:06. > :53:09.the Labour Party now feels compelled to try to compete with the SNP on

:53:10. > :53:16.that territory. Therefore, we do indeed end up with this area where

:53:17. > :53:19.in fact what the Scottish Labour Party is deliberately acknowledging

:53:20. > :53:24.is the possibility of tax increases in Scotland in order to fund a

:53:25. > :53:33.different pattern of spending and that certainly, frankly, I don't

:53:34. > :53:38.time soon. Even under Jeremy Corbyn? Even under

:53:39. > :53:43.Jeremy Corbyn. Coming back to this, we haven't finished this point about

:53:44. > :53:47.a narrative, I'm trying to, you seem to think that they have gone some

:53:48. > :53:53.way to creating a narrative about what on earth is the Scottish Labour

:53:54. > :53:56.Party there for? The truth is, I think, evidently Kezia Dugdale is

:53:57. > :54:01.saying we need a more equal Scotland. I don't think the SNP have

:54:02. > :54:02.done enough. I have made policy announcement that I think illustrate

:54:03. > :54:05.the idea that I am committed announcement that I think illustrate

:54:06. > :56:22.equality in the way the SNP announcement that I think illustrate

:56:23. > :56:25.although, it is not, but it is over in reality, let's talk about how you

:56:26. > :56:29.use the powers, that's a switch she is trying to make again deliberately

:56:30. > :56:33.at the SNP? The fight is not over south of the border. We know the

:56:34. > :56:37.Labour Party in Westminster is a den of ferrets in a sack, nevertheless,

:56:38. > :56:42.she made it clear where they stand in Scotland and that's what this

:56:43. > :56:49.party needed to hear. Andrew, they arrived gloomy, who could blame them

:56:50. > :56:52.after the gubing they got in May, do you think that helped? The mood in

:56:53. > :56:56.the conference has been really low. You can feel them sort of reaching

:56:57. > :57:02.out for the words there and she very much spoke to the audience. What was

:57:03. > :57:06.the comfort blanket of her speech? The comfort blanket in her, but it

:57:07. > :57:09.is a hard message to sell in the country as a whole. People will

:57:10. > :57:14.realise, they will have to pay more tax, I think that's the only mistake

:57:15. > :57:17.she perhaps made suggesting she can do all this in some way without

:57:18. > :57:26.people paying more taxmed they will have to pay more tax. She is not

:57:27. > :57:31.going to increase the tax thresholds. People will be paying

:57:32. > :57:39.more tax. But not more than they currently pay? You have to get more

:57:40. > :57:50.tax to pay for the... A tricky balance, Andrew? Yes. Yes, people

:57:51. > :57:55.aren't interested in comfort blankets and the cheaper holidays...

:57:56. > :58:00.Briefly. They may well accept this. It maybe a price worth paying for

:58:01. > :58:04.the kib of society she was talking about and the kind of society the

:58:05. > :58:07.Scottish National Party were saying. There is a sense the politics is

:58:08. > :58:13.very much to the left. I'm off to check what the result is from

:58:14. > :58:18.Tannadice how it is going and you thought Hallowe'en was scary!

:58:19. > :58:24.Right, that's all from us. I will be back tomorrow with Sunday Politics

:58:25. > :58:29.on BBC One at 11am, but tune in earlier to watch Andrew Neil and you

:58:30. > :58:33.can see the conference highlights tomorrow night at 11.55pm on BBC

:58:34. > :58:39.Two. From all of us here, on the programme, enjoy the rest of your

:58:40. > :58:46.Saturday. From myself and John Curtis who is still here, goodbye.