26/02/2016

:00:36. > :00:38.Hello and a very warm welcome to our live coverage

:00:39. > :00:41.of the Scottish Liberal Democrat spring conference.

:00:42. > :00:46.The pledge to increase income tax will be toasted by delegates

:00:47. > :00:52.This morning, members voted to drop their support for a local

:00:53. > :00:55.income tax, and against the leadership backed the lifting

:00:56. > :01:10.We're waiting for the keynote speech by the party leader,

:01:11. > :01:17.The Liberal Democrats are going into this conference

:01:18. > :01:19.rather battered and bruised after the general election last year.

:01:20. > :01:22.Voters made them pay a heavy price after their term in coalition -

:01:23. > :01:25.eight Scottish MPs lost their seats, a total of 49 across the UK.

:01:26. > :01:28.I'll be joined for the duration of the programme by Professor John

:01:29. > :01:34.And our political editor Brian Taylor is also with me,

:01:35. > :01:39.live at the Assembly Rooms in Edinburgh.

:01:40. > :01:48.Gentlemen, good afternoon to you. Brine in Edinburgh, battered and

:01:49. > :01:53.bruised but perhaps a behave face from the Liberal Democrats? I think

:01:54. > :01:56.a couple of things are trying to give them optimism. They are seeking

:01:57. > :02:01.optimistic prospects at every point they can. I think first of all they

:02:02. > :02:06.believe the memory of their coalition with the Conservatives

:02:07. > :02:08.which they accept was damaging to their electoral prospects in

:02:09. > :02:13.Scotland. In Scotland they believe the memory of that is beginning to

:02:14. > :02:16.fade as the fact of a single Conservative government without the

:02:17. > :02:22.Lib Dems settles into the public mind. Secondly, if you talk to some

:02:23. > :02:26.of the candidates and potential candidates for Holyrood in May, and

:02:27. > :02:29.they think that this offer of a penny for education is beginning to

:02:30. > :02:33.get some traction in the public mind. There is no sense yet that it

:02:34. > :02:41.is shifting the public opinion polls but it is beginning to get some

:02:42. > :02:47.traction. I think that's an intriguing aspect to bear in mind. I

:02:48. > :02:53.think Willie Rennie will go strongly on that point in education and give

:02:54. > :02:59.details how they'll spend it. I think they'll accuse the SNP and

:03:00. > :03:03.some Tories about obsessing about independence, and we've had two

:03:04. > :03:08.votes thaw mentioned earlier. A rather intriguing one on fracking

:03:09. > :03:14.when they backed lifting the moratorium on planning and licensing

:03:15. > :03:19.for unconventional oil and gas extraction subject to robust

:03:20. > :03:28.regulations being in place. I don't think it is politically too clever

:03:29. > :03:33.whether to contest the Greens. Next week we are expecting the Scottish

:03:34. > :03:39.Government to set out their plans on local taxation. This is a debate

:03:40. > :03:44.from earlier today. A local income tax has for many years been one of

:03:45. > :03:49.our sacred cows, a unique selling points for us the. It has certainly

:03:50. > :03:54.served us well for many years. It is sad to ditch old friends but in the

:03:55. > :04:00.new Scotland with powers over many devolved taxes it is time to can

:04:01. > :04:07.sign little income tax to the past. It was designed in a different

:04:08. > :04:12.world, the 1980s, a British unitary state when the Government of the day

:04:13. > :04:17.came one the monstrosity of the poll tax. But Scotland has powers over

:04:18. > :04:22.many devolved taxes and we need look at the impact that many of the

:04:23. > :04:25.changes have for the basket of taxes in Scotland. A property tax has to

:04:26. > :04:29.be part of the mix of taxes in Scotland. But if we were to keep our

:04:30. > :04:34.present policy and replace the council tax with a local income tax

:04:35. > :04:37.that would mean the only property tax homeowners would pay would be

:04:38. > :04:43.stamp duty when they die their house. Property tax must play a

:04:44. > :04:48.bigger role than that. Also think of tax competition. Something taken for

:04:49. > :04:52.granted in federal states but entirely new for Britain. Tax

:04:53. > :04:55.competition prevents any Scottish Government making income tax

:04:56. > :04:59.significantly higher in Scotland than it is in England. Otherwise the

:05:00. > :05:06.wealthy would just rearrange their affairs to pay their income tax in

:05:07. > :05:10.England. Putting 1 penny on all tax bands to fund education, that will

:05:11. > :05:16.not make such avoidance behaviour worthwhile. But if we add on top of

:05:17. > :05:20.that penny another 4.5 pence income tax for local councils we'll see

:05:21. > :05:26.widespread transfer of income to England and Scotland will be the

:05:27. > :05:31.loser. Remember too that taxation of investment income and savings isn't

:05:32. > :05:35.devolved, so under local income tax a millionaire living off investments

:05:36. > :05:38.would pay nothing. That certainly can't be fair. The great thing about

:05:39. > :05:44.property or land taxes is that you can't move your house or move your

:05:45. > :05:48.land. Avoidance is impossibility and collection rights are high. One

:05:49. > :05:54.other principle must ring out loud and clear. Whatever taxation we have

:05:55. > :05:58.it must be truly local. We need to bring back local democracy. Local

:05:59. > :06:02.councils must be free to set the amount their constituents should

:06:03. > :06:08.pay. Let's put an end to the nonsense of the Finance Minister in

:06:09. > :06:14.Edinburgh who thinks he knows best. Mr Swinney caps the council tax, he

:06:15. > :06:19.caps the business rates. He cuts the grants. We need to end this

:06:20. > :06:26.dictatorship. Let's see a real decksy. Let's give councils fair

:06:27. > :06:30.property or land tax and set them free to use it the way they want,

:06:31. > :06:36.not the way that Mr Swinney demands but to meet the local electorate

:06:37. > :06:45.wishes. The SNP like nationalist parties throughout history addicted

:06:46. > :06:48.to centralisation and control. We've seen the disastrous centralisation

:06:49. > :06:52.of the Police Service in Scotland and the imposition of council tax

:06:53. > :06:56.freeze which has hobbled local government in Scotland to an

:06:57. > :07:02.enormous extent. I don't believe that that is the way forward. I

:07:03. > :07:05.don't believe that one size fits all for local authorities in Scotland,

:07:06. > :07:09.local authority finance in Scotland. We need to give local authorities

:07:10. > :07:15.the power to decide the mix of taxes that they will impose. I think the

:07:16. > :07:18.disappointing thing about the consultation paper that's been

:07:19. > :07:23.circulated is that seems to set it out as if it is an either or, you

:07:24. > :07:26.must have either a property tax or a local income tax or land value

:07:27. > :07:31.taxation. You can't have them all. I think it should be for local

:07:32. > :07:37.authorities to decide what mix of those taxes, perhaps other taxes as

:07:38. > :07:43.well, a supermarket tax, a tourist tax in some areas. That would allow

:07:44. > :07:48.different couples in different parts of the country to create a basket of

:07:49. > :07:52.taxation which could raise a higher proportion of their income and which

:07:53. > :07:57.would suit their circumstances. I too not for one moment believe that

:07:58. > :08:01.the needs of Shetland are the same as those of Glasgow or that those of

:08:02. > :08:06.north Lanarkshire are the same as those of Edinburgh. This

:08:07. > :08:11.consultation asks two big questions: My answer to the first, I am not in

:08:12. > :08:17.favour of replacing the council tax with a local income tax, for two

:08:18. > :08:21.reasons. Most people depend on earned income. If we as Liberal

:08:22. > :08:24.Democrats wants to improve the opportunities for ordinary people to

:08:25. > :08:30.fulfil their potential, we must change the focus of our tax system

:08:31. > :08:35.away from taxing the earned income, and instead increase the taxation of

:08:36. > :08:39.unearned income, like dividends, and of capital, such as land as

:08:40. > :08:45.property. Adding to the existing taxation of earned income with a

:08:46. > :08:49.local income tax of perhaps 4-5% goes against in fundamental Liberal

:08:50. > :08:58.objective. Our local income tax policy should be thrown out for that

:08:59. > :09:03.reason alone. Secondly, local income tax, well, it's easy to avoid

:09:04. > :09:06.legally. Wealthy people can legally reduce their taxable income,

:09:07. > :09:11.sometimes to zero. Do not make the mistake of thinking that the wealthy

:09:12. > :09:17.will pay more under a local income tax. It doesn't always work like

:09:18. > :09:21.that. So what would I like to see replace the council tax? I favour

:09:22. > :09:24.optio would I like to see replace the council tax? I favour option

:09:25. > :09:29.four - land value taxation. The value of land is mostly determined

:09:30. > :09:33.by two things. Firstly, the rules which apply to its use, enforced

:09:34. > :09:37.through the planning system. And secondly, by the level of public

:09:38. > :09:42.investment in infrastructure and services. Why should the owners of

:09:43. > :09:47.land see its value rise through no effort of their own and make no

:09:48. > :09:51.commensurate annual contribution to public funds? I feel that both the

:09:52. > :09:54.commission and indeed the Liberal Democrats today are having slightly

:09:55. > :09:59.the wrong debate. What we should be asking is how do we fund local

:10:00. > :10:04.government in a sustainable way, and in a genuinely locally democratic

:10:05. > :10:08.way? Which I think we all support as Liberal Democrats. Our, the amount

:10:09. > :10:13.of money which is raised through council tax has fallen and is now

:10:14. > :10:18.around 10% of council budgets. That of course is the amount we get from

:10:19. > :10:22.that is more or less dictate by the Scottish Government for the past

:10:23. > :10:26.nine years, which I think has emasculated a lot of the local

:10:27. > :10:30.democracy within our areas. So we have five different options here.

:10:31. > :10:34.They are all good options, like Liberal Democrats we can see the

:10:35. > :10:39.pros and cons of each. We want a more progressive system but we don't

:10:40. > :10:43.want people to tax avoid. Therefore property is also a good tax system.

:10:44. > :10:47.So I suppose the basic thing we should be looking at as a policy

:10:48. > :10:50.committee is what is the balance of taxation we want raised locally? I

:10:51. > :10:56.think we should go back perhaps to 50-50 as it was a few years ago. And

:10:57. > :11:00.how are we then going to have a basket of taxes, as we are the only

:11:01. > :11:05.western country which relies on one local tax. I've got around a dozen

:11:06. > :11:15.friends who live in the city centre in one bedroom flats. All worth the

:11:16. > :11:19.same amount. But their incomes vary massively, from learn ?17,000 or

:11:20. > :11:28.?18,000 a year to close to ?100,000. They are all paying the same council

:11:29. > :11:33.tax. I cannot see that that is in any sense fair. And local income tax

:11:34. > :11:37.is still, with all the alleged disadvantages, a much better system

:11:38. > :11:45.than any others that are proposed here. Exchanges earlier today in the

:11:46. > :11:58.conference hall. Brian Taylor has been joined to discuss those issues

:11:59. > :12:02.by an MSP. Thank you. The vote was in favour of in principle moving

:12:03. > :12:06.away from your long-held policy of local income tax. Do you think

:12:07. > :12:10.that's right? I think what the independent commission reported in

:12:11. > :12:14.December did was bring forward a range of property and land taxation

:12:15. > :12:19.options. The challenges is then set not just to the Scottish Liberal

:12:20. > :12:24.Democrats but to all parties ahead of the up-coming elections to come

:12:25. > :12:28.forward with proposals informed by those deliberations. What conference

:12:29. > :12:33.had an opportunity today to do was look at a range of those options to

:12:34. > :12:38.reflect on whether a local income tax would be preferable to those

:12:39. > :12:43.options. Decided probably quite rightly that the benefit of property

:12:44. > :12:47.and land taxation options are they can't be moved about, and therefore

:12:48. > :12:51.they could form the basis for funding local government. I agree

:12:52. > :12:57.that the vote was pretty clear that it was moving away from your

:12:58. > :13:00.long-cherished policy, but we didn't hear, there wasn't clarity, which

:13:01. > :13:05.option you were going for. Will you be able to have that in your

:13:06. > :13:08.manifesto for the May elections? The commission set the challenge to all

:13:09. > :13:13.parties that going into the elections in May they need to set

:13:14. > :13:18.out, be clear, what it is that needs to be put in place to replace what I

:13:19. > :13:21.think by general consent is seen as an unfair council tax. We are

:13:22. > :13:25.confident that on the basis of the discussion this morning there's a

:13:26. > :13:29.clarity that we need to move away from the local income tax. There are

:13:30. > :13:38.options that can now be reflected on in more detail and will be in our

:13:39. > :13:43.manifesto in Fay. Manifesto in May. There's a possibility it could be

:13:44. > :13:47.more bans for the council tax or assigning some proportion or share

:13:48. > :13:51.of income tax on a local basis. What do you make of that as a blend

:13:52. > :13:56.approach? Well, I don't want to prejudge the discussions that will

:13:57. > :13:59.take place in the party after this morning's session but clearly one of

:14:00. > :14:05.the failings of the current unfair council tax is that it was devised

:14:06. > :14:10.in the early 1990s. That the lack of bans, the evaluations on which it is

:14:11. > :14:15.based are so woefully out of date that they would need addresses if

:14:16. > :14:19.something of that ilk was to remain in place longer term. The one of the

:14:20. > :14:22.problems is, the commission came forward with options for priority

:14:23. > :14:28.and land taxation in the absence of a Land Registry for the next decade

:14:29. > :14:33.or so, that option really isn't a runner for the future. If you extend

:14:34. > :14:37.the number of bands on council tax, it could mean people in bigger

:14:38. > :14:40.properties paying more, perhaps considerably more, in some of the

:14:41. > :14:46.areas that you are trying to win seats. That might not be hugely

:14:47. > :14:50.popular. We need to make sure that what replaces, as I say an unfair

:14:51. > :14:55.council tax, better reflects the ability of people to pay. Increasing

:14:56. > :14:58.the number of bands is one option that's been put forward. It has

:14:59. > :15:03.attractions to it. Not least because it moves away from the very blunt

:15:04. > :15:09.instrument put in place by the Tories in the early 1990s. I don't

:15:10. > :15:15.want to prejudge the discussion in the party.

:15:16. > :15:25.Let's turn to the other vote you had this morning, on fracking, as it is

:15:26. > :15:28.called, oil and gas extraction. You discuss lifting the moratorium, is

:15:29. > :15:34.it politically clever when going head-to-head with the Greens in some

:15:35. > :15:38.places? Conference has had an opportunity to debate the issue and

:15:39. > :15:46.vote this morning. It was no secret Willie Rennie's preference was for

:15:47. > :15:51.the moratorium to be placed. I think it was more on the basis of the

:15:52. > :15:53.implications in terms of our climate change targets, which we've failed

:15:54. > :15:59.to meet ever since we put the climate change act into force. The

:16:00. > :16:05.debate this morning evolved more around the safety aspect, while

:16:06. > :16:07.those are very relevant, I think they didn't necessarily capture the

:16:08. > :16:13.concerns many people have. Willie Rennie has quite rightly set out in

:16:14. > :16:19.terms of our aspirations of reducing CO2 emissions. Is your policy likely

:16:20. > :16:23.to feature in the manifesto? Might it vanish into the mists of history?

:16:24. > :16:29.I'm not going to write the manifesto in front of... Go on. Tempting

:16:30. > :16:34.though it may be, I probably ought to keep counsel on this. We need to

:16:35. > :16:39.reflect what Conference has decided, one of the aspect I think is clear

:16:40. > :16:41.from the debate this morning is that local authorities and planning

:16:42. > :16:46.authorities absolutely need to be convinced around the safety aspect.

:16:47. > :16:49.I think what was perhaps missing from the debate was more of a

:16:50. > :16:54.discussion about the implications in terms of CO2 emissions than for

:16:55. > :16:59.meeting climate change targets. That we will need to reflect on. Thanks

:17:00. > :17:00.for joining us. Those two debates this morning, Willie Rennie's speech

:17:01. > :17:03.to come. Professor John Curtice

:17:04. > :17:05.of Strathclyde University is also with me for the duration

:17:06. > :17:13.of the programme. Before we get to those two issues,

:17:14. > :17:17.let's look at the Lib Dems electoral prospects. I said at the beginning

:17:18. > :17:21.of the programme they are battered and bruised, terrible general

:17:22. > :17:25.election for them. Maybe a slight glimmer of hope for Holyrood

:17:26. > :17:27.according to the polls? The good news for the Scottish Liberal

:17:28. > :17:32.Democrats is they did so badly five years ago in the last Holyrood

:17:33. > :17:36.election that there is almost only one way to go, and that is up. They

:17:37. > :17:41.got around just under 8% of the vote, the constituency wrote, they

:17:42. > :17:46.held onto two seat in the Northern Isles, that was it. Down to 5% on

:17:47. > :17:51.the regional list vote, which is crucial. The truth is what will

:17:52. > :17:56.happen in the Northern Isles is difficult to call, there were two

:17:57. > :18:00.big challenges from independents. It makes it more difficult to say what

:18:01. > :18:02.will happen now. This was the one constituency, Orkney and Shetland

:18:03. > :18:08.combined, which the party managed to hang onto in last year's general

:18:09. > :18:12.election, though subsequently local MP Alistair Carmichael got into hot

:18:13. > :18:18.water about what he said about a leaky had authorised. On the list

:18:19. > :18:22.vote at least the opinion polls now suggest they are around 7%. The

:18:23. > :18:26.difference between five and seven might not sound a lot, but it takes

:18:27. > :18:30.you from not getting a seat in most regions of Scotland to probably

:18:31. > :18:36.getting a seat in most regions of Scotland. There are eight of them

:18:37. > :18:39.altogether. Maybe we could expect seven, maybe eight Liberal Democrat

:18:40. > :18:45.MSPs, rather than the five they have at the moment. If you look at recent

:18:46. > :18:48.polls, they are probably about one percentage point or so better than

:18:49. > :18:52.they were at the time of the general election. If you look at local

:18:53. > :18:57.Democrat by elections, the Lib Dem vote is going up a bit but not

:18:58. > :19:01.dramatically. We're not looking at them recovering from the damage

:19:02. > :19:05.inflicted on the party in 2011, and it returning to being one of the

:19:06. > :19:09.four big parties in Scotland, but maybe it will just be a little bit

:19:10. > :19:13.stronger than it was five years ago and a little bit stronger in

:19:14. > :19:17.Hollywood than it is at present. It will face a challenge from the

:19:18. > :19:21.Greens who perhaps also are around six or 7% on this vote. One thing

:19:22. > :19:27.they will want to avoid is becoming Scotland's fifth party. 2011, 2015,

:19:28. > :19:30.briefly in this one, when do you think voters might want to stop

:19:31. > :19:35.punishing the Lib Dems for their role in the UK Coalition Government?

:19:36. > :19:40.When they begin to have a message people begin to be excited by and

:19:41. > :19:45.buy into. And as a result game credibility. Maybe one of their hope

:19:46. > :19:49.is that because of the EU referendum both Conservative and Labour parties

:19:50. > :19:53.look extremely divided. Anybody who is at least in favour of remaining

:19:54. > :19:59.inside the EU, gaps may be asking themselves, do I need to give Tories

:20:00. > :20:04.and Labour a bit of a lesson by voting for the Liberal Democrats as

:20:05. > :20:06.a protest party? They have to start recreating themselves as the protest

:20:07. > :20:09.Now, before the conference got under way, Brian Taylor interviewed

:20:10. > :20:11.Willie Rennie for our morning conference webcast.

:20:12. > :20:13.Brian asked him about the forthcoming European referendum.

:20:14. > :20:16.But first of all the questions were all about the party's policy

:20:17. > :20:26.for a penny on income tax - where would he spend that money?

:20:27. > :20:31.There are four particular areas we would invest in. Because it's an

:20:32. > :20:35.urgent situation, Scotland's education system is slipping down

:20:36. > :20:38.international rankings, so we believe urgent investment is

:20:39. > :20:44.required now with his penny on income tax, a modest investment for

:20:45. > :20:48.big return. We would invest in four particular areas. One is nursery

:20:49. > :20:51.education, we know it's the best educational investment we can make,

:20:52. > :20:55.particularly before the age of three. Something we argued for in

:20:56. > :20:58.Scottish Parliament very strongly. Nursery education is the first

:20:59. > :21:02.priority. Second priority is to invest in a pupil premium, something

:21:03. > :21:07.that has been done down south already. Its target particular

:21:08. > :21:12.children who need extra help at school. We are proposing in the

:21:13. > :21:16.order of ?1400 for primary school kids, ?900 for secondary schools.

:21:17. > :21:22.Does many go to schools or local authorities? -- does the money. It

:21:23. > :21:25.will be targeted towards individual pupils. Unlike the attainment fund

:21:26. > :21:30.the SNP have. Straight to read Masters and headteachers? Straight

:21:31. > :21:34.to schools so headteachers can manage it for the people to need

:21:35. > :21:38.extra support. It can't just be put into the general pot within the

:21:39. > :21:41.school, it has to be additional entitlement for those individual

:21:42. > :21:47.pupils who need extra help to close the attainment gap to give them the

:21:48. > :21:51.chance. Pupil premium is the new announcement today we are making.

:21:52. > :21:55.The third area is to stop some of the cuts to schools the SNP are

:21:56. > :21:59.imposing. But also repair damage to the colleges. There are 152,000

:22:00. > :22:03.places being lost in our college education system. We think we need

:22:04. > :22:08.to repair some of the damage to that. Schools, colleges, nurseries,

:22:09. > :22:13.that is the top priority. I'll talk about the impact of the taxation

:22:14. > :22:20.proposal. Isn't there a big fundamental flaw in this? That the

:22:21. > :22:23.tax plans for the year ahead, 16-17, have been set already by the

:22:24. > :22:29.Scottish Parliament. You can't do this in the year ahead. I've heard

:22:30. > :22:37.of theoretical physics but this is the radical politics. It's a great

:22:38. > :22:41.disappointment, the SNP rejected our plans, even the Labour Party's

:22:42. > :22:45.plans, too. Two parties in the Parliament making a big case for

:22:46. > :22:48.this and they rejected it, to our great disappointment. I don't think

:22:49. > :22:52.they can claim to be anti-austerity any more if they are not taking the

:22:53. > :22:56.opportunity when given the power. Let me under your question. The

:22:57. > :22:59.powers will be there next year and our proposals for the next budget

:23:00. > :23:04.will be to make that urgent investment. You call it urgent, are

:23:05. > :23:08.you telling people honestly the doorsteps, I'm proposing reedit

:23:09. > :23:20.income tax, but I can't actually do it. No wonder people are cynical

:23:21. > :23:23.about politics. The next budget is the big next opportunity for us.

:23:24. > :23:28.It's a five-year Parliament to remember. We'll be making that case.

:23:29. > :23:32.You would stick to this tax plan? Because by next year there will be

:23:33. > :23:36.new tax powers in place to control all income tax rate in bands, the

:23:37. > :23:41.power to vary between upper and lower, you will stick to this plan?

:23:42. > :23:48.Tax increase across all rates? Yes, we've proposed, also, a zero rate on

:23:49. > :23:54.tax, too. In order to provide an extra bonus on top of the personal

:23:55. > :23:59.allowance... As funds allow... That is the kind of priority we'd have.

:24:00. > :24:01.As we get economic return from our investment in education, we would

:24:02. > :24:06.invest it in boosting personal allowance so more people are taking

:24:07. > :24:10.off tax altogether. At Westminster we cut the tax for those on lower

:24:11. > :24:14.and middle incomes and raising the personal allowance, it has gone up

:24:15. > :24:18.to ?11,000 thanks to the Lib Dems in government. We want to carry on that

:24:19. > :24:25.campaign, those measures, to help those on low and middle incomes. Are

:24:26. > :24:28.you telling voters you are now canvassing, we have a proposal for

:24:29. > :24:33.tax, education spending, but we can do nothing about it until 2017, do

:24:34. > :24:36.you tell them honestly? At the first opportunity we will do something

:24:37. > :24:41.about it, give us the power and we'll do something about it the

:24:42. > :24:47.first opportunity we get because we believe it's so urgent. It's a great

:24:48. > :24:51.disappointment the SNP rejected our plans. The next budget the first

:24:52. > :24:56.opportunity we get we will be investing. Do you think it's right

:24:57. > :25:01.to get people earning as little as ?15,000 pay additional income tax.

:25:02. > :25:04.They weren't, you have two earned over ?19,000 to pay more tax next

:25:05. > :25:11.year compared with this year. After that the advantage of it will have

:25:12. > :25:15.gone? There are further plans to raise the personal allowance, it'll

:25:16. > :25:19.go up even further. Comparison year to year people will not be paying

:25:20. > :25:25.more tax unless they earn over ?19,000. Your party in coalition at

:25:26. > :25:29.Westminster educated to increase the personal allowance, you made a big

:25:30. > :25:33.deal of agitating and increasing personal allowance, now you are

:25:34. > :25:36.taking away the advantage of that if given a chance in Scotland. If we

:25:37. > :25:42.were in government now at Westminster we wouldn't be cutting

:25:43. > :25:47.as deeply as the Conservatives are. No pretending about it. Liberal

:25:48. > :25:51.Democrats were proposing to spend more money than the Conservatives.

:25:52. > :25:54.What we're doing is using the powers we have in Scottish Parliament to

:25:55. > :25:58.put that right, make the investment in education we desperately need

:25:59. > :26:02.now. To be clear, you will definitely impose an income tax

:26:03. > :26:06.increase of 1% across all the rates, not confined to the upper rates?

:26:07. > :26:10.People on the standard rate in Scotland will know they pay more

:26:11. > :26:14.under you? As I said, because of the personal allowance, the fact they

:26:15. > :26:19.have raised that, you'd have to earn over ?19,000 to pay more. I think

:26:20. > :26:22.it's progressive and fair. Because it's income tax it's a progressive

:26:23. > :26:27.tax. Those on the lowest incomes, even above ?19,000, are paying a

:26:28. > :26:32.fraction of what those in positions like myself... Earning a decent

:26:33. > :26:35.salary. People earning ?20,000 a year could afford to pay more income

:26:36. > :26:40.tax? It is way below the median income. The economic return on

:26:41. > :26:45.education return you are getting for those families, two, because the

:26:46. > :26:48.investment in education creates jobs. But also they are getting

:26:49. > :26:52.education investment to give their kids a chance to get up and get on,

:26:53. > :26:56.it's a virtuous circle, a benefit to everyone in society. It's a modest

:26:57. > :27:00.contribution we're asking them to make for a big return. When I hear

:27:01. > :27:06.that phrase, modest contribution, modest proposal, I can't help

:27:07. > :27:11.thinking about Jonathan Swift. I won't give details, look it up

:27:12. > :27:14.online. Gavin Maxwell and his proposal on the EU, what is your

:27:15. > :27:19.plan B? Your party in favour of retaining EU membership, what is

:27:20. > :27:24.plan B, if the Irish electorate decides to leave the EU? Respect

:27:25. > :27:30.Gavin's question, but sometimes these questions frustrate me. David

:27:31. > :27:34.Cameron, will he remain as Prime Minister if he loses the referendum?

:27:35. > :27:38.I don't really care! People have other problems to worry about. If

:27:39. > :27:43.we're wanting ourselves out of the EU will have a few difficulties to

:27:44. > :27:46.deal with, I don't care who is Prime Minister. Do you think David Cameron

:27:47. > :27:51.will remain Prime Minister? Falling into the trap. We've got issues,

:27:52. > :27:56.free movement of people, open markets, the fact universities can

:27:57. > :28:02.cooperate with the money agreement, studying in one country one year,

:28:03. > :28:05.another the next. The fact we have peace and to curate in on the

:28:06. > :28:08.continent. Our ancestors would beg for this peace and tranquillity

:28:09. > :28:15.across the EU in devious entries. They would look at incredulity we

:28:16. > :28:20.would even consider leaving. I'll indulge your question in an answer

:28:21. > :28:27.about independence. I suspect there's a big ample David Cameron is

:28:28. > :28:31.taking by doing this anyway. -- big gamble. If we get to a situation

:28:32. > :28:36.where Scots, as Nicola Sturgeon says, are pulled out of the European

:28:37. > :28:41.Union against our will and there are lots of ifs and buts within it, I'm

:28:42. > :28:46.sure there might be some demand for another referendum. I think it would

:28:47. > :28:50.be difficult, really difficult, once we just pulled ourselves out of one

:28:51. > :28:54.of our biggest markets, the European Union, that somehow we would decide

:28:55. > :28:58.to pull ourselves out of our first, biggest market, the rest of the

:28:59. > :29:05.United Kingdom. One French followed by another would be pretty

:29:06. > :29:07.difficult. -- one wrench. We regret David Cameron's actions on this, I

:29:08. > :29:13.don't think it's necessarily good for the country. David Gray has a

:29:14. > :29:16.question on the point you've raised. He says SNP tactics are threatening

:29:17. > :29:22.another one in a generation referendum. Are you saying you think

:29:23. > :29:26.there would be some justice, given the constitutional dilemma that will

:29:27. > :29:31.have been created? Some justice in holding a second independence

:29:32. > :29:36.referendum. I get frustrated that we've got one of the biggest

:29:37. > :29:40.decisions we've got, we just made a decision about independence. We've

:29:41. > :29:44.settled that for a generation as Nicola Sturgeon has made absolutely

:29:45. > :29:49.clear, very, very clear, we settled it for a generation. And when we get

:29:50. > :29:53.an opportunity to debate something really big for our country, open

:29:54. > :29:57.markets, free movement of people, cooperation between universities,

:29:58. > :30:01.peace across the continent, will we decide to have another debate about

:30:02. > :30:06.independence? I just think we should focus on the big challenge ahead of

:30:07. > :30:09.us. Let's be positive, let's stay in the European Union, let's not have

:30:10. > :30:12.another proxy debate on independence. I don't want to go

:30:13. > :30:17.there. I think the most important thing we do is to make sure Scotland

:30:18. > :30:21.says within the European Union, that, surely, should be the priority

:30:22. > :30:23.for everyone, rather than dragging us off into another independence

:30:24. > :30:28.debate. It caused enough of a division. Are you comfortable your

:30:29. > :30:32.party's positioning on Europe is in line with public opinion? There are

:30:33. > :30:36.people who perhaps here your arguments about peace and

:30:37. > :30:39.cooperation, but they just see the European Union as a bloated

:30:40. > :30:45.bureaucracy with an overweening power, many see it that way, even

:30:46. > :30:49.those who ultimately, to say they are in favour of remaining in the

:30:50. > :30:49.EU, are you comfortable being the cheerleaders for the European

:30:50. > :30:57.project? I will always make the case for

:30:58. > :31:01.international co-operation. It is of significant benefit. You will always

:31:02. > :31:09.get people who deride Government and institutions. It is not the most

:31:10. > :31:14.popular thing in the world to advocate. But tinge opportunities

:31:15. > :31:18.are tremendous through that co-operation across continents, in a

:31:19. > :31:21.Continent that's been blighted by conflict in previous centuries. Are

:31:22. > :31:24.I don't think we should take it for granted what we've got. Of course it

:31:25. > :31:26.is not perfect. Willie Rennie, the party leader,

:31:27. > :31:29.is about to make his keynote address to delegates at the Assembly

:31:30. > :31:44.Rooms in Edinburgh. Well trailed look at the pupil

:31:45. > :31:48.premium. I think there'll be elements of the speech but it is

:31:49. > :31:54.points about the taxation offer, the benefits they can have from it. It

:31:55. > :31:59.was intriguing to hear him say it wasn't just something to be

:32:00. > :32:05.challenged to the SNP during the budget process. Willie Rennie

:32:06. > :32:15.regards that as a longer term project. In 2017, by then they'll be

:32:16. > :32:20.able to distinguish between upper and lower rates. The puzzlement

:32:21. > :32:26.about how much increasing the upper rates in Scotland would bring in.

:32:27. > :32:30.Would it bring in much given the flexibility of people's capacity to

:32:31. > :32:33.move their earnings elsewhere in would it bring in that much or do

:32:34. > :32:38.you have to consider the standard rate? It is a tough decision for all

:32:39. > :32:43.the parties. An even tougher decision for the voterser who have

:32:44. > :32:49.to pay for the consequences. Professor Curtis is with me. You

:32:50. > :32:54.were nodding your head there. In a sense we've now seen the Liberal

:32:55. > :33:01.Democrats going back. This is quite an intriguing U-turn by Mr Rehne.

:33:02. > :33:08.For recent years the UK party and Mr Rehne's been helping to cheer lead

:33:09. > :33:14.for it has been saying they've pushed the Conservatives into the

:33:15. > :33:18.personal allowance and reducing taxation for most people. The

:33:19. > :33:23.Liberal Democrats will say they were the originators of the idea. What we

:33:24. > :33:29.are going back to is the policy of the party under the 1990s when Paddy

:33:30. > :33:33.Ashdown argued for an increase for a penny in the pound UK-wide to spend

:33:34. > :33:39.more on education. The party is doing this U-turn back to its policy

:33:40. > :33:43.of the 1990s. In the 1990s it seemed to serve the party well, and it fits

:33:44. > :33:48.the fact that the Liberal Democrats do tend to do relatively well

:33:49. > :33:52.amongst University graduates, among those working in the public sector.

:33:53. > :33:55.And therefore the idea of spending more money on education probably

:33:56. > :34:00.helps to appeal to the Liberal Democrats' niche market. You were

:34:01. > :34:04.asking me what have they got to do to recover, the first thing to do is

:34:05. > :34:10.try to get back on board those people you would expect most of the

:34:11. > :34:17.time would vote Liberal Democrat, will many of whom defected from the

:34:18. > :34:20.party in 2012 and 2015, and maybe by going back to a traditional Liberal

:34:21. > :34:25.Democrat stance he is hoping to pull people back in. And he is possibly

:34:26. > :34:29.anticipating that they'll never have to deliver on the policy. Exactly.

:34:30. > :34:34.It is interesting that that's the move away from the Nick Clegg party

:34:35. > :34:42.to the Ashdown party. In a way you saw Nick Clegg speaking in the House

:34:43. > :34:48.of Commons recently. It suggests quickly how quickly people move on

:34:49. > :34:57.in politics. Indeed under Nick Clegg the pressure was there before him.

:34:58. > :35:02.The party shifted to the right. Danny Alexander wanted a low tax

:35:03. > :35:06.liberalism. There's also the social liberal stream that's always

:35:07. > :35:10.emphasised the value of public services and is always willing to

:35:11. > :35:15.have higher taxation to pay for it. In truth the Scottish Liberal

:35:16. > :35:19.Democrats are going back to that social liberal stream. Hopefully

:35:20. > :35:22.they think as a way of getting a hearing once again with the Scottish

:35:23. > :35:30.electorate. They've got competition, as the Labour Party is also

:35:31. > :35:37.proposing to increase income tax, not with the purpose of spending on

:35:38. > :35:40.education, but there's competition now in this market. One of the

:35:41. > :35:44.things that we should bear in mind here, this is the first Scottish

:35:45. > :35:49.election, the one that's coming up, at which parties will be expected to

:35:50. > :35:54.come up with proposals on taxation and spending. No lower than does the

:35:55. > :35:57.Scottish Parliament simply have the accept the amount of money it gets

:35:58. > :36:00.from Westminster and decide how to spend it. It will have

:36:01. > :36:04.responsibility for raising some of its own money. That widens the

:36:05. > :36:08.debate and creates opportunities for parties to think about the balance

:36:09. > :36:15.of taxation and spending in Scotland. We'll hear from Willie

:36:16. > :36:18.Rennie shortly. He'll be making his keynote address to the delegates.

:36:19. > :36:22.For many of those delegates, we were talking about the coalition earlier,

:36:23. > :36:28.it's been a pretty rough ride for them over the past few years. Many

:36:29. > :36:32.of them left the party. Indeed, a rough ride, to the early years of

:36:33. > :36:37.the coalition in the autumn of 2010 when they were party to the decision

:36:38. > :36:42.to increase university tuition fees south of the border. Up to ?9,000,

:36:43. > :36:46.when most Liberal Democrats MPs had signed a pledge to say they wanted

:36:47. > :36:53.to get rid of University tuition fees. This was one of the party's

:36:54. > :36:57.distinctive ideas. It fitted their belief in the importance of

:36:58. > :37:03.education. That policy reversal, their position in the polls fell

:37:04. > :37:09.away rapidly. People said these guys said they are going to do one thing

:37:10. > :37:13.and have done something different. For any private company, let alone a

:37:14. > :37:15.political party, that's a disastrous position to be in. The Liberal

:37:16. > :37:19.Democrats never recovered in the last Parliament. They've suffered

:37:20. > :37:24.the consequences in Scotland in the 2011 Holyrood election and the 2012

:37:25. > :37:28.local government election. The only question now is how much, if at all,

:37:29. > :37:33.can they recover from the rock bottom that they'll be starting this

:37:34. > :37:36.election for Holyrood in a couple of months' time. And the general

:37:37. > :37:43.election at the lost some very good Parliamentarians. Not least Charles

:37:44. > :37:49.Kennedy, who passed away last year. Those good people have gone from the

:37:50. > :37:59.party essentially. Sure, one of Willie Rennie's obvious problems, he

:38:00. > :38:08.has been a one man band in Holyrood. If the media wanted someone to talk,

:38:09. > :38:20.it was Willie Rennie who came on. In opinion polls, more people think he

:38:21. > :38:26.is doing a bad job rather than a good job. But people are saying, who

:38:27. > :38:32.is this person, I honestly don't know. He doesn't have well known

:38:33. > :38:47.characters like Charles Kennedy Willie Rennie is making his way to

:38:48. > :38:50.the stage to make his keynote speech at the Liberal Democrat spring

:38:51. > :39:01.conference in Edinburgh. Thank you Sheila. I want to talk to you about

:39:02. > :39:07.a new member of our party. Becca, a bright, intelligent and brave young

:39:08. > :39:12.woman. We are fortunate to call her a fellow Liberal Democrat. She has

:39:13. > :39:18.given me permission to tell you this story. What she did was something

:39:19. > :39:24.quite simple. She told her story. She wrote about her experience of

:39:25. > :39:29.the health service. Only a few years ago she was suffering from

:39:30. > :39:35.depression. Following a break-up from her boyfriend, she considered

:39:36. > :39:43.suicide. What happened next is something that must be condemned to

:39:44. > :39:52.the past. She was told by a doctor at A that she was a drain on the

:39:53. > :39:59.NHS. No support. No treatment. Just a lecture. But Becca is making a

:40:00. > :40:05.difference. Making a difference by speaking out. And the response is

:40:06. > :40:10.encouraging. Every time I now mention mental health on a public

:40:11. > :40:15.plant form, the silent nods around the room fill me with hope. Hope

:40:16. > :40:19.that the stigma is fading. Hope that there's a growing demand for change.

:40:20. > :40:23.Hope that this will lead to the unstoppable change to our NHS so

:40:24. > :40:30.that mental health is given the equal support that deserves. But we

:40:31. > :40:34.need more than nods to make change. We cannot wait any longer for

:40:35. > :40:39.change. For Becca, for thousands of people who are crying out for help

:40:40. > :40:42.and for the many who cannot be heard any more because we were simply too

:40:43. > :40:44.late. For all their sakes we need change and we need it now.

:40:45. > :41:01.APPLAUSE. We want the best for people with

:41:02. > :41:08.mental health problems. Scotland used to be amongst the best in the

:41:09. > :41:15.world for so many things. That's what the next five years have got to

:41:16. > :41:19.be about. To make us the best again. At our heart Liberal Democrats want

:41:20. > :41:26.every individual to achieve their potential. To be the best we need

:41:27. > :41:30.the skills, talents and creativity of everyone who lives here. To

:41:31. > :41:38.participate in the economy and society, to feel that they belong.

:41:39. > :41:43.Diversity and education will be the twin engines that drive invention

:41:44. > :41:48.and creativity. To enrich our country and provide a bright Liberal

:41:49. > :41:54.future our economy needs a Scotland where we can craw on the well

:41:55. > :41:58.educated and trained talents of people from all backgrounds.

:41:59. > :42:04.Scotland needs to get the benefit of the diverse talents of everyone, to

:42:05. > :42:08.be the best. That means there should be opportunity for everyone.

:42:09. > :42:12.Whatever their background. That is the vision for Scotland to which the

:42:13. > :42:15.Liberal Democrats will devote the next five years. That's the Liberal

:42:16. > :42:25.vision. APPLAUSE.

:42:26. > :42:34.We need real change now so Scotland can be the best again. Because what

:42:35. > :42:41.we have now is just not good enough for Scotland. On education, once

:42:42. > :42:48.proud, now slipping down the global rankings according to the OECD, on

:42:49. > :42:54.climate change, once world-beating targets now failing to meet them

:42:55. > :42:59.year on year. On policing, once locally accountable, with local

:43:00. > :43:05.policing by consent, now a shadow of its former self. On mental health,

:43:06. > :43:10.once a world-leading strategy. Now we don't even have one. And people

:43:11. > :43:18.are waiting for an age for treatment. Scotland needs change to

:43:19. > :43:24.be the best, but this SNP Government is refusing to act. Scotland can't

:43:25. > :43:32.wait for a vague promise of change at some point over the horizon. The

:43:33. > :43:33.SNP have paralysed on tax. Even when they

:43:34. > :43:37.SNP have paralysed on tax. Even when -- now have the power in their

:43:38. > :43:43.hands. Even now when they have the chance. They have chosen to cut

:43:44. > :43:49.education rather than use the new powers to invest in it. They prefer

:43:50. > :43:54.to talk about climate change targets than take action to exceed them.

:43:55. > :43:58.They have failed to fund mental health services even though the

:43:59. > :44:03.waiting times grow. Froze on the the spot, afraid to do anything in case

:44:04. > :44:07.it damages the cause of independence. My message today is

:44:08. > :44:13.that it doesn't have to be like this. We can build a country where

:44:14. > :44:18.children from all backgrounds get the best chance to succeed. Where

:44:19. > :44:20.civil liberties are valued and celebrated. Where police are allowed

:44:21. > :44:24.to do the job d and celebrated. Where police are allowed to do the

:44:25. > :44:26.job they were trained for - to keep us safe. Where we pass on the

:44:27. > :44:31.environment to our children in a better state than we inherited it.

:44:32. > :44:35.Where power is shared across the country rather than hoarded in

:44:36. > :44:40.Holyrood. Where people with poor mental health are treated as swiftly

:44:41. > :44:46.as everyone else. I want us to battle to be the best. I want to

:44:47. > :44:50.live in a country that has ambition to be the best in the world, not

:44:51. > :44:53.just the best in Britain. We don't have to wait. We can build that

:44:54. > :44:56.country now. We need to get Scotland fit for the future, to be the best

:44:57. > :45:18.again. APPLAUSE.

:45:19. > :45:23.Now a Liberal Democrat speech from Willie Rennie wouldn't be complete

:45:24. > :45:28.without a reference to Dunfermline. I have a real excuse this time. Ten

:45:29. > :45:37.years ago this month we won Dunfermline. Yeah, go on! CHEERING

:45:38. > :45:44.You know I draw inspiration from that wonderful victory. The right

:45:45. > :45:51.message, the best team, and an outstanding candidate. LAUGHTER

:45:52. > :45:56.And this year we have outstanding candidate who can win, too. Katy

:45:57. > :46:06.Gordon, the West of Scotland, Chris Chapman in the South of Scotland,

:46:07. > :46:12.Alex Hamilton and Halifax. Mike rumbles in the north-east. Angela

:46:13. > :46:18.McLean in the Highlands. Robert Brown and Paul McGarry. They are

:46:19. > :46:19.leading figure campaigns to win, to bolster a brilliant team in

:46:20. > :46:41.Hollywood. She has been quite remarkable, you

:46:42. > :46:45.are absolutely right to applaud. Her record on human rights and on

:46:46. > :46:49.justice, and on the police, it was recognised as outstanding at the

:46:50. > :46:57.Herald politician of the year awards. Liam McArthur led the charge

:46:58. > :47:01.on the University 's Bill and nursery education, national testing

:47:02. > :47:04.and so much more. Tavish Scott on the fiscal framework, Smith

:47:05. > :47:09.commission, farming payments, flights to the Northern Isles, at

:47:10. > :47:14.his feisty best. And Jim Hume has led the way on mental health, GPs,

:47:15. > :47:19.and has successfully piloted a new law to ban smoking in cars with

:47:20. > :47:31.children. Jim, children will have a healthier future thanks to you.

:47:32. > :47:39.A team that punches well above its weight. If you ever needed shining

:47:40. > :47:44.examples of why we need even more Liberal Democrat, just observe our

:47:45. > :47:48.team of parliamentarians in Hollywood. They've achieved more in

:47:49. > :47:54.the last five years than all the SNP backbencher is put together. Thank

:47:55. > :48:01.you. Our great Liberal team. APPLAUSE

:48:02. > :48:09.We have a team in 2016 that punches well above its weight. If you need a

:48:10. > :48:14.second opinion, just look at the Conservatives. The Scottish

:48:15. > :48:23.Conservatives have spent half ?1 million writing to people asking for

:48:24. > :48:27.support to be the opposition. Well, they've wasted their money and your

:48:28. > :48:39.time. They are no opposition. The SNP and the Tories are two peas in a

:48:40. > :48:43.pod. The very idea of two parliament at Westminster and Holyrood

:48:44. > :48:49.dominated by those two is an utterly dismal prospect that won't help

:48:50. > :48:53.Scotland be the best. The Tories with their harsh welfare policies,

:48:54. > :48:59.callous treatment of refugees, slashing of renewable energy, and

:49:00. > :49:04.their massive economic gamble on the future of the European Union. The

:49:05. > :49:11.SNP, who are only interested in getting independence, and have let

:49:12. > :49:15.everything slide while they have distracted with that. And worst of

:49:16. > :49:20.all, both of them are completely united in wanting to keep the

:49:21. > :49:32.country divided. They need each other, they feed off each other. The

:49:33. > :49:35.Tories in London help the nationals in Edinburgh with their scare

:49:36. > :49:42.stories and vice versa, they both want to keep the division is going.

:49:43. > :49:48.The only parties that you will find who want another argument about

:49:49. > :49:55.independence in this campaign is the Tories and the SNP. That's what they

:49:56. > :50:03.want. And it is into that dismal scene on this rancid prospectus,

:50:04. > :50:07.that is where we must come in. We say, no more. We say, it's time to

:50:08. > :50:12.move on from the divisions in our country. We will put the division

:50:13. > :50:18.behind us, we will put the whole of Scotland first. Not just the No

:50:19. > :50:23.people or the Yes people, we will put conflict behind us, we want the

:50:24. > :50:36.best for Scotland, a united Scotland is the best for Scotland. APPLAUSE

:50:37. > :50:46.And they are at it again this week, working together to stop our penny

:50:47. > :50:50.for education. Mr Fraser told Hollywood he had formed a tax payers

:50:51. > :50:58.Alliance with the SNP. John Swinney said the Tories were lobby fodder

:50:59. > :51:06.for the SNP. They laughed and they clapped together, as they cut ?500

:51:07. > :51:16.million from local councils. The SNP song book used have one song in it,

:51:17. > :51:23.if we only had the power. But now they do have the powers, they still

:51:24. > :51:27.won't use them. They have picked up the Tory song book. What have they

:51:28. > :51:36.got in it? The first cut is the deepest. But the second, third and

:51:37. > :51:42.fourth aren't bad either. I fought the Lawson and the Lawson won. Same

:51:43. > :51:46.tunes about taxation is is theft and cuts are a price worth paying, and

:51:47. > :51:52.colleges, the more we cut, the more they do. John Swinney might even be

:51:53. > :52:08.singing in the bath like Norman Lamont. I don't regret anything. So,

:52:09. > :52:14.the Scottish Conservative leader simply making it up about

:52:15. > :52:21.opposition. This party has not gone soft on independence. But, unlike

:52:22. > :52:25.her, we accept the result of the referendum, and we are moving on.

:52:26. > :52:29.She's determined to open up, for our own benefit, the deep wounds the

:52:30. > :52:35.campaign caused. The Tories just do not care. They should stick that on

:52:36. > :52:47.their postcard and apologise to the people of Scotland. APPLAUSE

:52:48. > :52:56.Tomorrow, we have a chance to agree that at every election in the future

:52:57. > :52:59.we will have a team of candidates that looks more like our diverse

:53:00. > :53:08.Scotland than we have ever done before. We debate what targets we

:53:09. > :53:14.set for ourselves for future parliamentary selections. For 20

:53:15. > :53:22.years, 20 years, I've watched only a handful of women MPs and MSP 's get

:53:23. > :53:35.elected under our banner. It is not good enough. For this Progressive

:53:36. > :53:40.party. With the support of people, who were previously opposed to the

:53:41. > :53:45.measures in the motion, we have a package for change. If you back my

:53:46. > :53:51.motion tomorrow, you will send a powerful signal to liberal minded

:53:52. > :53:56.women across Scotland that we are serious about change and they are

:53:57. > :54:00.welcome in our party. I want to win again. To win again we need to be

:54:01. > :54:08.more like the people we seek to represent. To win, we need to

:54:09. > :54:11.change. I'm Askin you to come with me and back my motion. -- I'm asking

:54:12. > :54:21.you. For Scotland to be the best again,

:54:22. > :54:27.we need the best education in the world again. So ECD tells us we're

:54:28. > :54:33.slipping down the international standing on education. This

:54:34. > :54:38.government has slashed 152,000 places from colleges. It has cut

:54:39. > :54:45.school budgets, too. It can't even get more than 7% of two-year-olds

:54:46. > :54:56.into nursery classes. With the investment of 1p on income tax, we

:54:57. > :54:59.can secure a ?475 million return. You know our investment, the penny

:55:00. > :55:04.for education, will be spent on expanding nursery education,

:55:05. > :55:12.implementing a pupil premium, stopping cuts to schools, and

:55:13. > :55:16.repairing cuts to colleges. Those are our four priorities for children

:55:17. > :55:21.and young people. Today I can announce the details of what that

:55:22. > :55:30.funding will do, so people know what they will get for their winning

:55:31. > :55:34.investment. We will invest ?170 million in our schools with a pupil

:55:35. > :55:42.premium. This will aid directly to schools to raise attainment every

:55:43. > :55:46.year. -- this will be paid. It'll be worth ?1400 for every pupil who need

:55:47. > :55:53.extra support at primary, wherever they live in the country. And ?900

:55:54. > :55:57.for every secondary pupil from a disadvantaged back down. Our pupil

:55:58. > :56:00.premium will put money into every classroom. Every school gets money

:56:01. > :56:09.for children from poorer backgrounds. And look at what it

:56:10. > :56:15.might mean. A primary school could get ?43,000 more. In Dunoon,

:56:16. > :56:20.Woodhill and Bishop bricks, East Craigs in Edinburgh, Castle Hill in

:56:21. > :56:29.Cooper, Dingwall, I mouse, all of them, could get more than ?60,000.

:56:30. > :56:35.It's enough for more teachers, one-to-one help, homework clubs, or

:56:36. > :56:51.extra equipment. Secondary schools will benefit, too. Open would get

:56:52. > :57:03.another ?170,000. Wick 114,000. People's ?94,000. -- Tim two. That

:57:04. > :57:09.is how you close the attainment gap. Backing up your words with actions.

:57:10. > :57:13.-- Peebles. You don't have to imagine. Because when Liberal

:57:14. > :57:19.Democrat support this in in England, it closed the attainment gap by five

:57:20. > :57:26.percentage points in just three years. It raised attainment for

:57:27. > :57:30.everyone. Raising attainment, raising productivity, schools giving

:57:31. > :57:31.every child the best chance in life, that's the Liberal Democrat

:57:32. > :57:48.commitment on education. APPLAUSE And I make a direct appeal to people

:57:49. > :57:52.who supported Labour but are not impressed by the leadership of

:57:53. > :58:00.Jeremy Corbyn. You can back our progressive plans in me to make your

:58:01. > :58:04.voice heard with us. Liberal Democrats are bighearted,

:58:05. > :58:09.open-minded, outward looking, caring, and compassionate. We for

:58:10. > :58:15.the aspirational, with a social conscience. We care about the people

:58:16. > :58:21.next door, across the world, or in the future. At our heart, Liberal

:58:22. > :58:24.Democrats want every individual to achieve their potential. We stand

:58:25. > :58:30.with the weak against the strong, we will use the power of government to

:58:31. > :58:35.tackle the social and economic injustices that limit freedom. We

:58:36. > :58:38.say power is safer when it is shared and will trust communities and

:58:39. > :58:44.individuals with the power to control their lives. And the right

:58:45. > :58:51.to participate in their democracy. We are trustees of the world and our

:58:52. > :58:54.society and must pass on a sustainable legacy, which will

:58:55. > :59:00.benefit future generations. To be the best, we need the best health

:59:01. > :59:06.care. We need to reverse the decline in the NHS. That's why we support a

:59:07. > :59:12.step change in mental health services. The recruitment of more

:59:13. > :59:15.GPs and better social care. To be the best comedy planet must be

:59:16. > :59:20.protected, so we need to meet Scotland's climate change targets,

:59:21. > :59:24.it's why we support action on climate change including warmer

:59:25. > :59:28.homes, better public transport, and stopping opencast coal. To be the

:59:29. > :59:33.best, our civil liberties must be guaranteed. There will be an

:59:34. > :59:40.excessive use of stop and search or and intrusive super ID database. To

:59:41. > :59:43.be the best we need to reflect the rich diversity of the country, so we

:59:44. > :59:49.must bring an end to string in power from local communities and hoarding

:59:50. > :59:53.it in Hollywood. That is why we support a reform programme that

:59:54. > :59:58.includes power, transferred to local communities, and empowering police,

:59:59. > :00:07.nurses, doctors and teachers, to do their job. To be the best, we need a

:00:08. > :00:10.strong economy. Fair tax and good public services. That's why we

:00:11. > :00:16.support continued membership of the European Union. A reformed tax

:00:17. > :00:20.system that makes work break and investment in good public services.

:00:21. > :00:25.And finally, to be the best, we will move on from the Independence debate

:00:26. > :00:29.to bring unity, dealing the divisions of the referendum. We all

:00:30. > :00:30.need to move on to bring the country together to be the best again.

:00:31. > :00:45.APPLAUSE We will use this election campaign

:00:46. > :00:50.to show liberal minded people the true value of liberal-minded members

:00:51. > :00:58.of the Scottish Parliament. We will remind people from where we come.

:00:59. > :01:03.Joe Grimmond, David Steel, Charles Kennedy, Ming Campbell, Ray Michie,

:01:04. > :01:06.Jim Wallace, inspirational people of outstanding calibre. We will tell

:01:07. > :01:13.them l them what we have done - invented the NHS and the welfare

:01:14. > :01:18.state, opposed the Iraq war, fought and won free tuition, free personal

:01:19. > :01:23.care, free dental and eye checks in Scotland, tax cuts for workers and a

:01:24. > :01:27.growing chi. Of course our opponents will point to the mistakes, but

:01:28. > :01:33.we'll stand proud on our achievements and we will tell people

:01:34. > :01:37.where we are going. To be the best again, we will lift Scotland up from

:01:38. > :01:42.the divisions of the referendum and start winning again. Scotland is a

:01:43. > :01:51.country of winners, so we can have the best healthcare. So we can enjoy

:01:52. > :01:56.the freedom that comes with our deep-rooted civil liberties, so we

:01:57. > :01:59.can celebrate meeting our change targets and we can once again have

:02:00. > :02:04.the best education in the world. We can be the best again if we are

:02:05. > :02:08.bold, bright, Liberal and green. If you want change, if you want things

:02:09. > :02:12.to be better, if you want to get Scotland fit for the future. If you

:02:13. > :02:14.want Scotland to be the best again, then back the Liberal Democrats.

:02:15. > :02:28.APPLAUSE. STUDIO: The Scottish Liberal

:02:29. > :02:33.Democrat leader Willie Rennie receiving the applause at the

:02:34. > :02:39.Assembly rooms in Edinburgh as he ends his keynote spring conference

:02:40. > :02:42.speech. He wanted a new approach to mental health, and spoke about

:02:43. > :02:46.wanting Scotland to be the best again. He said he had a team in

:02:47. > :02:53.Holyrood that punched above its weight. He called the SNP and

:02:54. > :02:58.Conservatives two peas in a pod, a rancid prospect us as he described

:02:59. > :03:03.it, who wanted to keep the country divided. He spoke about the penny

:03:04. > :03:06.for education, and the pupil premium, and called for

:03:07. > :03:12.disillusioned Labour supporters to ditch Jeremy Corbyn and come over to

:03:13. > :03:15.his party. That's his receiving the applause at the Assembly rooms.

:03:16. > :03:19.Professor John Curtice is still with me. What did you make of that

:03:20. > :03:23.speech? I think it gave a fairly clear indication of how Willie

:03:24. > :03:27.Rennie is hoping to advance his party's cause at the beginning of

:03:28. > :03:31.May. It was very noticeable. There were of course attacks on the SNP

:03:32. > :03:36.Scottish Government. Would expect any opposition Government to do

:03:37. > :03:39.that. But there were strong attacks on Conservatives, and Mr Rennie

:03:40. > :03:43.trying to say to voters we might have been in coalition with the

:03:44. > :03:48.Conservatives for five years, but we don't agree with them. We think they

:03:49. > :03:53.are divisive. They are wanting to raise the constitutional issue yet

:03:54. > :03:58.again, et cetera, trying to put distance between his party and the

:03:59. > :04:04.former coalition partners. Contrarily, mentioned of the Labour

:04:05. > :04:07.Party were noticeable by their absence rather than their presence.

:04:08. > :04:11.There was a reference to, if you don't like Jeremy Corbyn but you

:04:12. > :04:15.regard yourself as progressive, slightly left of centre, maybe you

:04:16. > :04:20.want to come back to the Liberal Democrats. That was reinforced by

:04:21. > :04:24.coming up with this standard Liberal Democrat themes: Education, but also

:04:25. > :04:27.diversity, civil liberties, the environment. More devolution,

:04:28. > :04:36.particularly in the area of policing. So you can see that in a

:04:37. > :04:39.sense he's trying to say to those soft liberal-Labour voters, perhaps

:04:40. > :04:43.many of whom voted for the Liberal Democrats in 2010 or 2007 but who

:04:44. > :04:47.went to the Labour Party because of their distaste by some of the

:04:48. > :04:50.decisions made by the UK coalition, you can now come back. But don't

:04:51. > :04:55.like Jeremy Corbyn, we don't like the Tories, were you coming back to

:04:56. > :05:01.you with a message you will find much more palatable. And key policy,

:05:02. > :05:05.the pupil premium. An interesting point he made about closing the

:05:06. > :05:09.attainment gap in England by 5 #3ers. Ap

:05:10. > :05:15.attainment gap in England by 5 #3ers. -- by 5%. The principal

:05:16. > :05:21.purpose on which he wants to spend his penny on income tax is a policy

:05:22. > :05:25.that's been pursued in England. He wants Scotland to be the best but

:05:26. > :05:30.apparently it is going be the best by imitating something going on in

:05:31. > :05:38.England. He quoted information that the Department for Education south

:05:39. > :05:44.of the borderer quoted. The truth is that the pupil premium has only been

:05:45. > :05:47.in operation in England for three-and-a-half years. We won't

:05:48. > :05:51.know for 30 years, assuming the policy lasts that long, with whether

:05:52. > :05:53.it has been successful in reducing the attainment gap. Both Willie

:05:54. > :05:58.Rennie and Nicola Sturgeon are focusing on this issue. We may all

:05:59. > :06:01.say, power to their elbow, but improving the quality of education,

:06:02. > :06:05.reducing the attainment gap, the benefits from that, the including

:06:06. > :06:12.the benefits for Mr Rennie's penny on income tax are going to be a very

:06:13. > :06:15.long way down the track. Probably when neither Ms Sturgeon nor Mr

:06:16. > :06:21.Rennie are in the Scottish Parliament. John, thank you. Brian

:06:22. > :06:26.Taylor joins us hotfoot from the conference hall. What did you make

:06:27. > :06:30.of it? Intriguing speech. I listened to it in the hall, I like to see the

:06:31. > :06:35.reaction from the conference, and they liked the stuff on the penny

:06:36. > :06:38.for education. But I agree with Professor John Curtice about them

:06:39. > :06:41.liking that attack on the Conservatives. Attacking an

:06:42. > :06:45.incumbent Government in Holyrood when you are about to face a

:06:46. > :06:48.Holyrood election is no great surprise. But trying to link them

:06:49. > :06:55.with the Conservatives I think frankly that's going to be a hard

:06:56. > :07:02.sell. It was an intriguing attempt that Willie Rennie was making. To

:07:03. > :07:07.discuss that I'm delighted to welcome Tavish Scott, the MSP for

:07:08. > :07:11.Shetland. Let's go on that penny for education. You plainly believe

:07:12. > :07:15.that's something that's beginning to get attraction with the voters if I

:07:16. > :07:18.think people are seeing the impact on the schools across Scotland at

:07:19. > :07:22.this time. It has been going on for some years now. We are giving them

:07:23. > :07:27.an alternative to the cuts that the SNP are imposing on Scotland. 500

:07:28. > :07:30.million-ish. That's having an impact now in classrooms the length and

:07:31. > :07:34.breadth of the country. We are saying look, if you put some money

:07:35. > :07:38.into income tax, that money that we want to raise will just go into

:07:39. > :07:43.schools, nowhere else. That's how important it is. What difference

:07:44. > :07:48.would it make? Willie Rennie listed a pile of schools, unaccountably

:07:49. > :07:54.they were in areas where you are seeking support. I can't think how

:07:55. > :07:59.that came about. 40,000, 50,000, what difference can that make to one

:08:00. > :08:02.school? Willie Rennie made a strong point, that pupil premium that was

:08:03. > :08:08.started in England and particularly well done in Wales has made exactly

:08:09. > :08:12.that improvement. It has raised attainment by 5 percentage points.

:08:13. > :08:15.So this is a policy that works in different parts of the country. We

:08:16. > :08:20.don't tell teachers what to do. We give them options as to how best

:08:21. > :08:23.they challenge children from tougher backgrounds in improving their

:08:24. > :08:27.chances for the future. It is about schools making the right decisions.

:08:28. > :08:33.That's why our policy should be that way around. What about people on

:08:34. > :08:38.relatively low earnings. They would be pay more across all of the rates.

:08:39. > :08:40.The tax thresholds the Liberal Democrats raised when they were in

:08:41. > :08:44.the UK Government helped people on low income tax. People like you or

:08:45. > :08:49.me Brian or Nicola Sturgeon would pay more tax. A lot more tax than

:08:50. > :08:54.someone on low earnings. This argument needs to be seen in terms

:08:55. > :08:57.of how much tax people actually pay rather than the bogged down argument

:08:58. > :09:00.about the percentage. What's important here is yes everyone will

:09:01. > :09:04.contribute a little bit more and the low end very little more, but what

:09:05. > :09:07.should happen is that we need to deal with those cuts the SNP are

:09:08. > :09:17.imposing, we are offering that choice. You say it is only a tiny

:09:18. > :09:25.wee bit of a tax increase, but it is an increase in taxation nonelings.

:09:26. > :09:28.And by definition that's a disincentive to economic or company

:09:29. > :09:35.growth. The people who are struggling at the moment because

:09:36. > :09:38.there aren't classroom numbers their schools, they'll get the help that

:09:39. > :09:40.Willie Rennie illustrated in his speech. Illustrated in his speech.

:09:41. > :09:44.That's a challenge - I understand how people don't like paying more

:09:45. > :09:47.tax, but when you see the cuts that are happening around Scotland, I

:09:48. > :09:51.think most level-headed Scots will say, well, that's a choice we are

:09:52. > :09:55.prepared to make. We are giving them that opportunity. Another big

:09:56. > :10:00.section of Mr Rennie's speech drew warm applause from the audience,

:10:01. > :10:04.trying to make equalisation between the SNP and the Conservatives, two

:10:05. > :10:10.peas in a pod he called them. But that's not true is it? They take a

:10:11. > :10:15.different stance on the economy and utterly different on the union. But

:10:16. > :10:22.they love each other don't they? They? The grievance, I complain

:10:23. > :10:26.about how the SNP behave, is coming back the other way. They both sit

:10:27. > :10:29.together. If you take the Fiscal Commission discusses this week in

:10:30. > :10:32.Parliament where the Scottish Government have secured a level

:10:33. > :10:35.playing field in terms of money over the next five years, we see a

:10:36. > :10:38.grievance that's put off for five years' time. That's not good for

:10:39. > :10:43.Scotland never mind the UK. Our concern as a party is that the

:10:44. > :10:46.Tories and the SNP work together in exactly the way we have seen this

:10:47. > :10:50.week in the Fiscal Commission, but they store up another row for five

:10:51. > :10:55.years' time. That suits both parties But they would say they weren't

:10:56. > :10:59.working together but negotiating to reach a bargain in the interests of

:11:00. > :11:02.the people of Scotland. On Wednesday and the budget you guys and the

:11:03. > :11:05.Labour Party were ready to say there you are, the Tories and the SNP

:11:06. > :11:10.together. Blow me, the Tories voted against the budget and voted with

:11:11. > :11:17.you. They voted against the budget, but do you remember the speeches

:11:18. > :11:23.where they said John Swinney is the best Tory Chancellor we've never

:11:24. > :11:28.had. They were taking saying that satirically to undermine, not

:11:29. > :11:32.support him. But they believe that no tax increases is the Tory

:11:33. > :11:37.position as well. Ultimately, to use your word, voted with the Labour

:11:38. > :11:42.Party and with the Liberal Democrats against the SNP What they did do was

:11:43. > :11:47.vote against the tax increases we are proposing. They voted for the

:11:48. > :11:52.cuts to public services which will mean that the kind of damage this

:11:53. > :11:55.schools we've just been discussing. Let's turn to local taxation. It was

:11:56. > :11:58.discussed at conference this morning, party policy forever and

:11:59. > :12:04.day during the period you were leader and prior to that and since

:12:05. > :12:07.has been a local income tax. The party today said they certainty

:12:08. > :12:11.certain about the alternative but you've got to move towards a

:12:12. > :12:14.property based tax. There is some merit in the property based tax

:12:15. > :12:18.approach. I always thought the local income tax at least had the

:12:19. > :12:23.advantages of being clean and precise. People understood it at its

:12:24. > :12:29.most raw. That has advantages. So you regret the decision? Understand

:12:30. > :12:32.the party is consulting on this. We've had this situation for nine

:12:33. > :12:35.years where local government have no ability to do anything in terms of

:12:36. > :12:40.raising money and being accountable for that principle. I think whatever

:12:41. > :12:43.we do, we've got to make sure that local councillors in whatever part

:12:44. > :12:48.of Scotland have some responsibility as well as Edinburgh. You are saying

:12:49. > :12:52.don't ditch income tax too readily? I want the alternative to work, in

:12:53. > :12:58.terms of local accountability. That would be my principle that I would

:12:59. > :13:02.asupply strongly. The fracking, unconventional oil and gas extravjts

:13:03. > :13:05.it was a bit of a confusing vote, but you've voted as Liberal

:13:06. > :13:09.Democrats to allow the licensing of fracking to go ahead. I think what

:13:10. > :13:12.was important about that is people are concerned about carbon targets.

:13:13. > :13:17.Carbon emission targets. They don't want to see the situation made worse

:13:18. > :13:20.in Scotland. I'm a little concerned that not too many delegates

:13:21. > :13:24.understood that when voting today. We'll have to reflect on what was

:13:25. > :13:30.said. I think the science and the evidence around any change to a

:13:31. > :13:36.position on encouraging or allowing this form of technology to advance

:13:37. > :13:40.has to be considered at the utmost point. You are not saying your

:13:41. > :13:47.conference colleagues are too dumb to understand it are you? Not at

:13:48. > :13:52.all. We just need to be career. We just need to be clear. My concern

:13:53. > :13:56.about the union referendum is that the First Minister of Scotland is

:13:57. > :14:00.talking up defeat because the SNP's best interests of a second vote on

:14:01. > :14:04.Scottish independence is for the UK as a whole to pull out of Europe. If

:14:05. > :14:08.that happens and I hope it does not, then I think us in the Northern

:14:09. > :14:13.Isles wants to look at what our future is, not just the folk in

:14:14. > :14:16.Edinburgh. Tavish Scott, thank you for joining me at the wonderful

:14:17. > :14:20.Assembly rooms in Edinburgh. Edinburgh. The right lights from the

:14:21. > :14:27.chandeliers here are pretty impressive. Thank you Brian. As we

:14:28. > :14:33.heard earlier delegates agreed to campaign to have the current

:14:34. > :14:38.moratorium on fracking lifted. Just before Christmas, our First Minister

:14:39. > :14:41.headed across to the global climate change talks in Paris bothingta

:14:42. > :14:45.Scotland was leading the world. Nicola Sturgeon said that the

:14:46. > :14:49.rhetoric on the environment should be backed up by meaningful action.

:14:50. > :14:53.Who could disagree with that? We were told that climate change would

:14:54. > :14:59.be embedded into the next Scottish Government budget. Well, sure enough

:15:00. > :15:02.four days later it certainly was embedded, because SNP Ministers

:15:03. > :15:07.announced that spending on tackling climate change would be cut by ?50

:15:08. > :15:13.million. That's 10% of the budget. At no time in this week's budget

:15:14. > :15:18.debates in Parliament did the world environment cross ministerial lips.

:15:19. > :15:21.Nor in truth did Air Passenger Duty. Let me talk about the politics of

:15:22. > :15:30.priorities. As Willie Rennie has rightly made

:15:31. > :15:34.clear both in parliament and on the radio this morning, we are about

:15:35. > :15:40.protecting schools from the ?500 million cuts being imposed on local

:15:41. > :15:44.government by the SMB in the current financial year. So along with our

:15:45. > :15:51.tax proposals we cannot see how cutting EBD at a cost of ?250

:15:52. > :15:57.million helps our plans to support Scotland's schools. That income from

:15:58. > :16:02.EPD and other tax sources means less money for Scotland's public

:16:03. > :16:06.services. EPD is without question and environmental and economic

:16:07. > :16:10.argument of the Scottish budget is being cut because the SNP refused to

:16:11. > :16:18.use the tax powers they have. If anybody plans to cut EPD they have

:16:19. > :16:22.to explain to parents, pupils and teachers where the money will come

:16:23. > :16:26.from. That is the harsh reality of Scotland's financial position, it's

:16:27. > :16:30.about the politics of choice. Our approach to climate change revolves

:16:31. > :16:35.around a Liberal Democrat meant to green power, Scotland's renewables

:16:36. > :16:39.industry must be the bedrock of energy production. Here the Scottish

:16:40. > :16:43.Government has done good things, I recognise Fergus Ewing's personal

:16:44. > :16:47.commitment to renewables and indeed, to wind farms in the every is not

:16:48. > :16:52.universally popular with hill walkers or other campaigning groups.

:16:53. > :16:56.Liberal Democrats don't agree with SMP environment budget cuts,

:16:57. > :17:01.Scotland is not being helped on renewables, or indeed in tackling

:17:02. > :17:07.climate change, by the Tories. The Tories are now into one of their

:17:08. > :17:10.regular wars over Europe. What the Euro sceptics must of course is that

:17:11. > :17:14.Europe can be a force for environmental good. European action

:17:15. > :17:20.has reduced industrial sources of air and water pollution, the EU has

:17:21. > :17:23.sought to protect wildlife and wild places through the birds and

:17:24. > :17:28.habitats directive. We are home to more than 500,000 wild bird species

:17:29. > :17:34.and a third of those are currently not in good conservation status,

:17:35. > :17:38.that's white European action matters. The European Union has a

:17:39. > :17:42.new way to review industrial chemical use and force the

:17:43. > :17:46.withdrawal of many toxic substances from use by any standards, measures

:17:47. > :17:51.that matter to any of us no matter where we live. There is still much

:17:52. > :17:55.more to be done in Scotland. In this motion today we propose real action

:17:56. > :17:59.on one of the national scandals that must be addressed. It's wrong, as

:18:00. > :18:05.your debate has just heard, that so many Scots in fuel poverty, as Liam

:18:06. > :18:11.McArthur and others have observed in the league table of fuel poverty

:18:12. > :18:15.Orkney has overtaken the Western Isles as the area with the highest

:18:16. > :18:18.level of fuel poverty. No one should have to make that choice between

:18:19. > :18:22.eating and heating because they cannot afford both. Today,

:18:23. > :18:26.Conference, we make the environmental case, we've done so in

:18:27. > :18:30.the past, we will do so again today and do so into the next Parliament.

:18:31. > :18:34.Today is a starting point for a campaign on an environment that

:18:35. > :18:37.badly needs to be made. Few others are making it, it's the Liberal

:18:38. > :18:44.Democrats turn to make exactly that. APPLAUSE

:18:45. > :18:47.Hands up who has read the report of the independent expert scientific

:18:48. > :18:57.panel on the unconventional oil and gas... LAUGHTER

:18:58. > :19:02.Great. I have, it's pretty dry. But it's also really quite reassuring.

:19:03. > :19:06.It suggests we can extract these unconventional reserves safely if we

:19:07. > :19:11.regulate the industry inappropriately. -- appropriately.

:19:12. > :19:15.It implies the UK is a place where that is the norm. The level of

:19:16. > :19:19.public scrutiny that will likely exist if fracking were to be

:19:20. > :19:26.committed would make it highly likely that companies would take a

:19:27. > :19:29.better safe than sorry approach. It's a thorough and reassuring

:19:30. > :19:33.document that puts to rest some of the misinformation that has been

:19:34. > :19:36.circulating about the technology. So for some it's surprising the

:19:37. > :19:39.Scottish Government decided more evidence was needed. I would far

:19:40. > :19:45.rather support Scottish jobs and reduce the environmental impact of

:19:46. > :19:50.transport by burning Scottish gas to heat my home. Rather than relying on

:19:51. > :19:54.states like Russia and Saudi Arabia. The less we rely on them the more we

:19:55. > :19:59.can persuade our leaders to criticise them. Better policy than

:20:00. > :20:04.bowing down before activists and banning our continuing moratorium on

:20:05. > :20:09.fracking would be to lift the central government ban, regulate it

:20:10. > :20:12.appropriately and link the tax gain from any jobs or a manufacturing

:20:13. > :20:17.boom to a booming investment in renewables research and development.

:20:18. > :20:24.If this can be done, maybe we can ensure we don't need gas from

:20:25. > :20:28.fracking in our homes, it can become a petrochemical feedstock instead

:20:29. > :20:33.and we can play our part in bringing about technological solutions to

:20:34. > :20:38.global warning. Pleads support the amendment and the otherwise

:20:39. > :20:44.excellent motion, thank you. On a purely logical basis, firstly, it

:20:45. > :20:51.seems ridiculous to reverse this particular policy that we have quite

:20:52. > :20:55.so quickly. I'm afraid I don't swallow the facts scientific

:20:56. > :20:58.evidence says it's absolutely crystal clear there is no problem

:20:59. > :21:07.with fracking. There is a place here for principles and also some kind of

:21:08. > :21:15.logical and rational thinking. I think we're crystal clear as a

:21:16. > :21:18.party, we support developing our renewable industry which gives

:21:19. > :21:22.Scotland a great potential future. Why put energy into other which fix

:21:23. > :21:28.technologies that first of all break the fundamental principle of

:21:29. > :21:32.pursuing more use of fossil fuels? Which we know long-term is a

:21:33. > :21:36.complete disaster. We also note it has not been plain sailing in

:21:37. > :21:40.America anyway. We know it makes money fast, but I think, what

:21:41. > :21:45.happened to the whole principle of saving energy? Ventilating all our

:21:46. > :21:52.homes? I think this is a backward step, muddled thinking, it presents

:21:53. > :21:56.the Liberal Democrats as being muddled if we reverse this all like

:21:57. > :22:01.that. I'm totally against that amendment and I hope you will vote

:22:02. > :22:08.to reject it, thank you. Conference, climate change is real, we've just

:22:09. > :22:12.come out of the hottest, wettest winter on record, battered by

:22:13. > :22:20.storms, with communities across Scotland blighted by flooding. Human

:22:21. > :22:25.society is on a clear path towards an irreversible rise in global

:22:26. > :22:30.temperatures, a rise that could easily go well above the 2 degrees

:22:31. > :22:40.for UN considers just about acceptable. This will lead to a rise

:22:41. > :22:45.in sea levels, the desertification of huge areas, it lead to conflict

:22:46. > :22:49.over resources. There are those who will point to the correct Syrian

:22:50. > :22:54.civil war and indicate that its roots lie in conflict over

:22:55. > :23:00.resources, access to clean water. The same could be said similar

:23:01. > :23:06.conflict in Sudan and Darfur war. It's not just a little box, a green

:23:07. > :23:10.box we can put to one side and tick as environmentalism, this is about

:23:11. > :23:15.every aspect of our lives. The motion before you today goes a long

:23:16. > :23:19.way towards solid action that will help play Scotland's part in

:23:20. > :23:28.tackling climate change and sustaining nature. Some of the

:23:29. > :23:30.debate from earlier today. Back to the Assembly Rooms where Brian has

:23:31. > :23:37.gathered some guests. In the vote on that unconventional

:23:38. > :23:42.extraction debate, the party voted to lift the moratorium slightly, to

:23:43. > :23:50.the chagrin of the party. These things happen sometimes. I'm joined

:23:51. > :23:53.by three delegates, thank you. What do you make on that fracking wrote?

:23:54. > :23:58.I think it's important we have this democratic discussion in our party.

:23:59. > :24:02.I think it was a good thing they brought the amendment and we were

:24:03. > :24:05.able to consider it, I agreed with the amendment myself. I think it's

:24:06. > :24:10.important we look at each individual case on its merits rather than

:24:11. > :24:14.having a blanket moratorium. I mean I think things should be considered

:24:15. > :24:17.on their merits. It's not an area I have strong views on either way,

:24:18. > :24:21.obviously in the Highlanders there isn't a lot of opportunity for

:24:22. > :24:26.fracking, so it's not top of my agenda. Certainly not a green light

:24:27. > :24:30.on fracking, still opportunity for us to discuss it further. Our

:24:31. > :24:34.Conference will debate this further, later within the Conference. We'll

:24:35. > :24:39.have an opportunity to get more opinions on fracking. It's not a

:24:40. > :24:44.green light, certainly. Thanks for that. I thought I would erase it.

:24:45. > :24:50.Quite a contentious vote. Let's look at Willie Rennie's speech. The penny

:24:51. > :24:53.for education, is it something you think will be positive on the

:24:54. > :24:59.doorsteps? Definitely. What we'd been saying is young people have

:25:00. > :25:02.been affected by college cuts and our education system is hindering

:25:03. > :25:08.young people's life opportunities. It's time to stand up and make a

:25:09. > :25:12.radical decision to fund the future of Scotland's young people. I feel

:25:13. > :25:15.it's a really important step forward and a great thing the party is

:25:16. > :25:19.doing. Ministers say full-time places at colleges have been

:25:20. > :25:24.protected and continue to be protected indeed they've increased.

:25:25. > :25:27.I would say people like my mother benefited from part-time college

:25:28. > :25:30.that fitted in around their work plans. The college system is a

:25:31. > :25:36.Cinderella service. Cuts are damaging to the most disadvantaged

:25:37. > :25:39.people in society who use the service to change their lives. It's

:25:40. > :25:45.all fine and well does it, but we've seen massive place cups and they

:25:46. > :25:50.can't deny it and can't deny it has caused problems. I can see how you

:25:51. > :25:53.sold the message about additional expenditure on education, schools,

:25:54. > :26:00.colleges, how do you sell the message about paying more in tax?

:26:01. > :26:06.Tax in terms of the 1p tax? Yes. I think people recognise that not only

:26:07. > :26:12.income tax but also the council tax died of things. As a counsellor we

:26:13. > :26:17.did surveys in the Highlands and it showed people were prepared to pay

:26:18. > :26:22.extra. People always say that in surveys, what they mean is they want

:26:23. > :26:25.somebody else to pay more in tax. Not only for themselves, for the

:26:26. > :26:31.benefit they would get, but people have started to read it nice there

:26:32. > :26:35.rather is who are disadvantaged. It goes back to college places as well.

:26:36. > :26:39.I come from a family where I was the first person who went to university,

:26:40. > :26:43.my father had to do night school, he didn't even have the college option.

:26:44. > :26:47.If we're going to improve people's lot in society and in life, we have

:26:48. > :26:54.to look at all the areas. Tax and education. A balance to be struck on

:26:55. > :26:58.the offer and the cost? It's an investment, Willie was clear on how

:26:59. > :27:05.that would affect different communities. South Lanarkshire,

:27:06. > :27:08.?300,000 for one academy. It's an investment, in schools, something

:27:09. > :27:11.people will be able to see and they can see the benefits locally to

:27:12. > :27:15.every person. What we're asking people is to join us in making that

:27:16. > :27:19.investment in future lives of our Jordan and young people. You are

:27:20. > :27:24.levying a higher level of taxation, if you get your way, and by 2017,

:27:25. > :27:30.across all of the bands, not just targeting the well-paid, but an

:27:31. > :27:35.increased income tax imposition upon those earning the least? Absolutely,

:27:36. > :27:38.it would still be fairer than any council tax increase in that it's

:27:39. > :27:41.more progressive. Don't forget the Liberal Democrats in the last

:27:42. > :27:45.government in Westminster did increase the tax rational to 11 and

:27:46. > :27:48.a half thousand, so it's certainly more progressive than any of the

:27:49. > :27:55.other suggestions being made by other parties. It gives back into

:27:56. > :27:59.the communities. I think that's right, we're focusing on education,

:28:00. > :28:04.one particular area, it means people understand where their money is

:28:05. > :28:08.going, it's not just a blanket. People can see what's likely to

:28:09. > :28:13.happen and will improve the future. You say they can see where their

:28:14. > :28:17.money is going, might they not be concerned it is frittered, not spent

:28:18. > :28:21.on productive projects? We have to demonstrate that. In terms of the

:28:22. > :28:24.pupil premium, it's pretty clear that is going to areas to do

:28:25. > :28:29.particular things that improve the particular situations of our

:28:30. > :28:32.children. I completely concur with that, in the people premium you can

:28:33. > :28:37.see a real difference in local areas where we plummeted it in government

:28:38. > :28:43.in England and Wales. Down south. You have these projects where you

:28:44. > :28:48.can make a concrete difference in local areas, they can see it going

:28:49. > :28:51.into their local schools, that's how you convince people it is an

:28:52. > :28:55.investment you need to make for the future of our own children. Another

:28:56. > :29:00.topic racer Conference committee debate on local taxation, quite a

:29:01. > :29:04.big decision, the party turned its face generally against local income

:29:05. > :29:08.tax in favour, without specifying income of a property tax approach.

:29:09. > :29:14.What do you make of that? I had to do other things when the session was

:29:15. > :29:19.ongoing, it's a discussion on going, what we need to have. In principle I

:29:20. > :29:21.would be happy to back that, it's not my specialist subject, not

:29:22. > :29:24.something I'm particularly knowledgeable about but if we can

:29:25. > :29:27.make a progressive method of taxation that brings in the money we

:29:28. > :29:35.need for public services, it is a good way forward. Are we talking

:29:36. > :29:39.about council tax? There was tax of land value taxation but talk it

:29:40. > :29:45.would be taking too long to bring in. There were four basic options.

:29:46. > :29:49.It's more complicated than that, it's different in different parts of

:29:50. > :29:53.the country. I think focusing on land and all property is the way to

:29:54. > :29:56.go. People need to know what you are going to be proposing when they go

:29:57. > :30:00.to the ballot boxes. As with all these things when they are

:30:01. > :30:06.complicated it takes awhile to move forward the final conclusion. We've

:30:07. > :30:09.had a steer today, no more than a steer, the policy which, we need to

:30:10. > :30:15.take that back and prepare something else. Let's remember, let's not make

:30:16. > :30:21.it too complicated. The point was made people suggesting a myriad

:30:22. > :30:24.range of ways... Some others were going, hang on a second, this

:30:25. > :30:29.actually has to be committed by people on the ground. Let's not

:30:30. > :30:33.forget we've spent 20 years plus in Scotland debating exactly this issue

:30:34. > :30:36.on tax reform. So far, none of the parties have come up with something

:30:37. > :30:39.significantly fairer. What we've said is but there's a clear

:30:40. > :30:44.indication we will try and do that. And come back to the table with a

:30:45. > :30:48.proposition to voters in our manifesto that addresses some of

:30:49. > :30:53.these issues and costs. You are right, cost is a big issue. It'll be

:30:54. > :30:56.in the manifesto, voters who go into the polling stations in May will

:30:57. > :31:00.know what the Liberal Democrat proposal is on local taxation. We

:31:01. > :31:04.will then next week in the Scottish Government what the SNP approach is.

:31:05. > :31:10.Today's vote is an indication from our party that this is the

:31:11. > :31:14.direction, it is not a binding vote by in means. But yes we'll have

:31:15. > :31:19.proposals in our manifesto that we'll take to voters. Hannah, it

:31:20. > :31:22.hasn't been easy of late, the last few years, to be a Liberal Democrat.

:31:23. > :31:27.We've had a bit of a kicking at the hands of the electorate. Do you

:31:28. > :31:32.believe you can turn that round, and, if, so how? I think the

:31:33. > :31:36.important thing now is to get out the positive measures that nt thing

:31:37. > :31:39.now is to get out the positive measures that Willie has given us -

:31:40. > :31:42.that we need change in this country, that we can be winners again. I've

:31:43. > :31:46.seen this in my local area, with we've got loads of young people

:31:47. > :31:51.coming into the party, because they've been inspired by this need

:31:52. > :31:54.for positive change for reform in Scotland, for improving our public

:31:55. > :31:57.services. We've had so many new members doing fantastic work in

:31:58. > :32:03.their local communities over the last few months. Same question Jean,

:32:04. > :32:13.can you do it, and, if so, how? I did, didn't I? Good answer. One

:32:14. > :32:18.small area, one ward, but it's the start of what I hope will achieve

:32:19. > :32:25.more in May. With what in the In terms of particular targets, we

:32:26. > :32:31.would like to win a Highland representation again. I used to live

:32:32. > :32:35.in the Western Isles and was incredibly frustrated at not having

:32:36. > :32:39.any Lib Dem support. So either on the list or in one or two

:32:40. > :32:47.constituencies, I would be happy. Paul? His speech offered a pitch to

:32:48. > :32:49.voters that the SNP and the stories are still fighting the

:32:50. > :32:54.constitutional question, Labour, we are not sure. But the Liberal

:32:55. > :32:59.Democrats have a targeted message to voters. We'll be education, health

:33:00. > :33:04.service, mental health. The party that's focused 100% on making

:33:05. > :33:06.Scotland great, fit for the future, is the Scottish Liberal Democrats.

:33:07. > :33:10.That was Willie's pitch today. That's the message we are bringing

:33:11. > :33:14.the voters. I think that's attractive, is it not? Ot only

:33:15. > :33:19.Scotland, but the local areas. In the Highlands it's the Highlands.

:33:20. > :33:31.Thank you all three. With that back to the studio. Brian, thank you. We

:33:32. > :33:34.haven't mention to do so Liberal Democrats approach to drugs and

:33:35. > :33:39.drugs policy. That was always one of their greatest hits to make them

:33:40. > :33:42.stand out in the crowd. They didn't do much about nit Government. What

:33:43. > :33:51.exactly are they proposing now? We need to bear in mind that the policy

:33:52. > :33:56.of the legalisation of drugs is... And still will be when the Scotland

:33:57. > :34:02.Bill goes through. It has been an issue the party at a UK level has

:34:03. > :34:08.been debating for some time. It has never formally come out in favour of

:34:09. > :34:12.legalising cannabis, but Nick Clegg says as far as soft drugs like

:34:13. > :34:16.cannabis is concerned, we are losing the war and it doesn't make sense to

:34:17. > :34:20.regard them as criminal. Willie Rennie over the weekend seemed as

:34:21. > :34:23.though he was going to suggest that at least north of the border,

:34:24. > :34:28.although Scotland isn't responsible for the law, but it is for

:34:29. > :34:31.enforcement, perhaps those found in possession of small amounts of

:34:32. > :34:35.cannabis wouldn't necessarily be prosecuted. A movement away from

:34:36. > :34:39.trying to enforce the law, a shift towards treatment. We haven't heard

:34:40. > :34:44.a great deal more about it yet, but this is an area where the Liberal

:34:45. > :34:47.Democrats on the one hand have perhaps always been concerned about.

:34:48. > :34:54.Many people feeling that being soft on drugs is just not right. Others

:34:55. > :34:57.saying that the current law is not realistic. Public opinion I think in

:34:58. > :35:02.truth is heavily divided on this subject, but probably given the kind

:35:03. > :35:06.of people usely vote Liberal Democrat, if they were to move

:35:07. > :35:11.towards legalisation, it wouldn't necessarily be a vote loser for

:35:12. > :35:16.them. Willie Rennie today was saying for Class A drugs such as cocaine or

:35:17. > :35:21.her win, people could face the choice of treatment or a penalty. I

:35:22. > :35:23.suppose dealers would still be targeted under the current

:35:24. > :35:29.regulations. Sure, that's perfectly clear. I think the arguments of

:35:30. > :35:34.those who are in favour of a measure of legalisation is that you help the

:35:35. > :35:38.reduce the extent to which deal verse a potential role to place,

:35:39. > :35:43.because you make it easier for people to gain access to it. But it

:35:44. > :35:48.is clearly a controversial subject. Moving on to another subject but

:35:49. > :35:52.staying with the law. It was how Willie Rennie and the party

:35:53. > :35:57.leadership have dealt with Alistair Carmichael. He won that court case,

:35:58. > :36:01.but he had to pay the fees. I suppose Willie Rennie felt he had

:36:02. > :36:04.been dealt with properly that way. He's been heavily criticised for not

:36:05. > :36:09.taking a stronger approach. That's certainly true. I think there is

:36:10. > :36:13.though doubt that Mr Carmichael's actions and the fact he was

:36:14. > :36:18.responsible or had authorised the leak of what was clearly a dubious

:36:19. > :36:22.memo about what had been said by Nicola Sturgeon to the French

:36:23. > :36:27.Ambassador, that was an embarrassment to the party. Although

:36:28. > :36:31.it was true that Mr Carmichael, the court did not suggest he should be

:36:32. > :36:36.removed as an MP, there were three arguments put forward. The

:36:37. > :36:41.petitioners won two of them. It was only on the third that Mr Carmichael

:36:42. > :36:46.survived. The court was not willing to give judgment on Mr Carmichael's

:36:47. > :36:51.costs against the plaintiff. The difficulty is, is you are left with

:36:52. > :36:57.your one and only MP, it is not exactly the case that the party is

:36:58. > :37:01.going to say, Mr Car Mike em, we think you should resign. They are

:37:02. > :37:05.not going to say, we keep our distance from him and want to

:37:06. > :37:16.withdraw the whip. They don't have that luxury of course. Perhaps if

:37:17. > :37:20.they said, we do as a party accept that that's the case, it might have

:37:21. > :37:24.an easier rather than trying to say the court didn't suggest he needed

:37:25. > :37:30.to be removed as an MP and we want to move on. Maybe something to say,

:37:31. > :37:34.he got it wrong, he accepts he got it wrong, he is paying the penalty

:37:35. > :37:39.financially and we accept that's the sort of thing politicians shouldn't

:37:40. > :37:42.do in future. John, thank you. A short while ago at conference

:37:43. > :37:45.delegates supported a motion which called for devolution of powers to

:37:46. > :37:51.be considered for island communities. Here's a taste of what

:37:52. > :37:55.was said, starting with the ubiquitous Tavish Scott. Islanders

:37:56. > :37:58.are fed one a one size fits all approach to public services which

:37:59. > :38:02.doesn't work. The SNP Government want to run everything from the

:38:03. > :38:07.central belt. They used to be considered to be a competent

:38:08. > :38:11.Government, but try telling that to island crofters or farmers. They

:38:12. > :38:15.were promised Common Agricultural Policy payments by the end of

:38:16. > :38:19.January. For most that has not happened. Crofters have lost trust

:38:20. > :38:24.in their Government. Promises to deliver have simply not been met. So

:38:25. > :38:27.if the UK does withdraw from the EU and the SNP force a second

:38:28. > :38:30.independence referendum, which is their position, Shetland should have

:38:31. > :38:34.the right to decide where we want to be. Some in my party of the world

:38:35. > :38:39.believe that should be back to Norway. But that might be a stretch

:38:40. > :38:47.too far. At the very least we want a chance to explore an opt out of our

:38:48. > :38:53.own. On May 5th Shetland can vote for rule from Edinburgh or debate

:38:54. > :38:58.the island's interests. The SNP will not give us that. After nine years

:38:59. > :39:04.of nationalist Government, the best they offer is more jam tomorrow in

:39:05. > :39:08.the hope that we'll just keep quiet. Well, I know Shetland won't keep

:39:09. > :39:14.quiet and nor will it on these issues. We need to pass power to

:39:15. > :39:18.island communities. Islanders know best how to address their issues. I

:39:19. > :39:25.sat on the Smith Commission with Mike Moore and I argued as he did

:39:26. > :39:31.for the management of the seabed to be not just devolved to Edinburgh

:39:32. > :39:35.but passed to island control. Such arrangements should happen for other

:39:36. > :39:41.islands too as they best see fit. This is unfinished business for me.

:39:42. > :39:46.It is an islands plan and I ask today that that conference endorses

:39:47. > :39:52.that. APPLAUSE. The reality is that they

:39:53. > :40:00.have a much wider role than councils do here. Just to give you a flavour

:40:01. > :40:05.of this. I've got some of the headlines from Orkney island's

:40:06. > :40:08.councils portfolio. We own a Cathedral, a network of airfields

:40:09. > :40:13.which have their own Fire Service, a radar network. We run all the

:40:14. > :40:22.infrastructure for the largest cruise tourism industry in the UK.

:40:23. > :40:30.We have a University campus, a portfolio with archaeological

:40:31. > :40:36.buildings and historic sites which any organisation would be envious

:40:37. > :40:40.of. Of. We've talked about devolving powers, but that's not just a

:40:41. > :40:43.theoretical or a constitutional exercise for shuffling between one

:40:44. > :40:48.set of politicians and another. There's real benefits that you can

:40:49. > :40:53.see when that happens. The concept of a cultural empowerment and public

:40:54. > :40:57.services sound positive. However, simply adopting this philosophy

:40:58. > :41:00.assumes that those being empowered are highly personally accountable.

:41:01. > :41:06.I've worked this the public sector and I've been a public partner in

:41:07. > :41:09.the NHS. At times I've been mildly amused and at times horrified by

:41:10. > :41:13.what I've witnessed in departments that already have empowerment

:41:14. > :41:17.without accountability. I note the facts presented in the debate as the

:41:18. > :41:22.basis on which some of this debate is founded. Lack of teaching staff

:41:23. > :41:25.in the North East isn't primarily down to empowerment. A survey by the

:41:26. > :41:30.General Teaching Council for Scotland found that only one newly

:41:31. > :41:33.qualified teacher in four found a full-time permanent teaching job

:41:34. > :41:37.after completing their induction year There is oversupply in the

:41:38. > :41:44.central belt versus more rural areas. The issues are likely to be

:41:45. > :41:49.one of willingness to work in a rural area rather than one of

:41:50. > :41:52.empowerment. The Police Scotland staffing such, a 50% return rate,

:41:53. > :41:55.significantly high for a public sector organisation, doesn't have

:41:56. > :42:01.empowerment in the top five issues the work worse would like to see

:42:02. > :42:06.improved. I think it would be difficult to push empowerment when a

:42:07. > :42:12.survey didn't ask for it. I want to talk about education and the impact

:42:13. > :42:18.the Scottish Government has had. I left school quite a number of years

:42:19. > :42:24.ago now, perhaps not how I look, but it was at least eight years ago. I

:42:25. > :42:27.sat sadly left with not a lot of qualifications, a couple of standard

:42:28. > :42:33.and maybe a higher, a C. A music maybe. Sadly that was because of the

:42:34. > :42:36.way the school ran. It was trying to put square pegs through a round

:42:37. > :42:41.hole. It was a results driven school, how they were going to do,

:42:42. > :42:45.because they were trying to play the league tables. When people like me

:42:46. > :42:47.who didn't fit in, with learning difficulties and couldn't edge the

:42:48. > :42:52.way they wanted things to happen were forced out of the school at a

:42:53. > :42:55.young age, because we were going to bring down the average grades.

:42:56. > :42:59.That's the product that we'll get from standardised testing. A move

:43:00. > :43:03.back to league tables and people like me will be left behind. I

:43:04. > :43:09.managed to turn it around. I went to work for a couple of years and went

:43:10. > :43:13.to college. I did high Highers, went to uni and I'm happy with that. My

:43:14. > :43:17.school deserves no credit for how I am doing now. It is not because I

:43:18. > :43:21.went to one of the best state schools, I had to take that

:43:22. > :43:25.initiative myself. My school left me behind. That's the product of

:43:26. > :43:31.standardisation, a product of one size fits all schooling and one size

:43:32. > :43:35.fits all treatment of public sector workers. The reason I asked you to

:43:36. > :43:38.vote for this motion is there are negative impacts not just on the

:43:39. > :43:43.people that the public sector workers but the people that they

:43:44. > :43:46.work for. I'm asking you to vote to support public sector workers to

:43:47. > :43:54.make their job easier to help the people that they are there to work

:43:55. > :43:57.for. It wouldn't be a party conference without its press pack.

:43:58. > :44:09.Brian Taylor has a couple of members there now. Brian? Stars of the press

:44:10. > :44:14.echelons. Welcome both. Let's take Willie Rennie's speech, the big

:44:15. > :44:18.message of a penny for education. It is offering spending but threatening

:44:19. > :44:23.tax. How do you think he is getting that balance Lindsey? He's obviously

:44:24. > :44:28.done what Labour would do, put a penny on income tax. He's going to

:44:29. > :44:32.use that money for education and policies, such as a pupil premium,

:44:33. > :44:36.which follows pupils from the poorest parts of Scotland in a bid

:44:37. > :44:39.to driver up the attainment gap. We knowed that cation and the

:44:40. > :44:44.attainment gap is one of the biggest issues in Scotland at the moment. It

:44:45. > :44:47.is probably as much as the Liberal Democrats are producing vote winners

:44:48. > :44:52.with it is perhaps a vote winner for them. Magnus? I think they are going

:44:53. > :44:57.to explain it very clearly in terms of the education policies that they

:44:58. > :45:01.want to pursue with the ?500 million that will be raised by putting a

:45:02. > :45:06.penny on income tax. They are going to talk about using the progressive

:45:07. > :45:11.powers of income tax to benefit education. I think in that way they

:45:12. > :45:14.are hoping to take the sting out of what will be quite an unpopular

:45:15. > :45:26.decision to increase people's tax. It doesn't happen immediately. The

:45:27. > :45:30.decision for 16-17 had been taken. He said if the earliest opportunity

:45:31. > :45:36.and it's the principle that matters. Yes, Bisley by the time he can bring

:45:37. > :45:40.this in in 17-18, we should have the full raft of income tax powers we

:45:41. > :45:48.are getting through the Scotland Bill and fiscal framework. It'll be

:45:49. > :45:54.interesting is the Willie shifts his position on income tax. -- it'll be

:45:55. > :45:57.interesting to see. You would have thought the Lib Dems would be

:45:58. > :46:01.looking at something which could be termed more progressive that might

:46:02. > :46:05.hit high earners slightly harder and do something more for the lower

:46:06. > :46:10.earners. Tax is never popular, is it? No, but they are very keen to be

:46:11. > :46:16.talking about the principle of tax, keen to be drawing a contrast with

:46:17. > :46:20.the SNP, who they say are copying George Osborne's tax rates. They are

:46:21. > :46:26.certainly wary about Labour's similar increase in income tax

:46:27. > :46:32.policy. Labour, you will remember, have tried to mitigate the rise for

:46:33. > :46:40.those on lower incomes by having a little bit of a rebate. It has led

:46:41. > :46:45.down a cul-de-sac with the SNP, Rowling about how workable it is.

:46:46. > :46:48.Liberal Democrats are keen to keep this very simple and talk about

:46:49. > :46:53.raising tax to pay for education, keep it simple. Sticking with you on

:46:54. > :46:59.the point you raised, the attempt by Willie Rennie to conflate the SNP

:47:00. > :47:02.and the Conservatives. I was teasing Tavish Scott on that ground pointing

:47:03. > :47:07.out Conservatives voted with the Liberal Democrats on the budget, and

:47:08. > :47:13.labour, but he has a message about... He called them two peas in

:47:14. > :47:17.a pod. Is it going to sell? Peas in a pod was the sound bite he wanted

:47:18. > :47:20.us all to take from his speech in the Conference hall. His message to

:47:21. > :47:27.Ruth Davidson is simple, stop talking about the referendum because

:47:28. > :47:29.it's playing into the SNP's hands. I suspect he wants with Davidson to

:47:30. > :47:33.stop talking about the referendum because it also damaging the Liberal

:47:34. > :47:39.Democrats. It's not so long since Willie Rennie was one of those MSP

:47:40. > :47:48.'s who was most gung ho about carrying on fighting the referendum.

:47:49. > :47:51.-- MSPs. On this point about completing the SNP and Tories? The

:47:52. > :47:55.reason he wants with Davidson to stop talking about the referendum is

:47:56. > :47:59.she's making a very good pitch for being the party of the union, it's

:48:00. > :48:05.been her direct message, if you voted No, vote Tory, we are the

:48:06. > :48:09.party for you. He doesn't want that. She tries to say she's not just a

:48:10. > :48:13.party of the union, the party of the union. When you have labour

:48:14. > :48:17.completely split on what on earth it's doing with the independence

:48:18. > :48:20.vote. Perhaps it's not working particularly well for Willie Rennie

:48:21. > :48:24.either, he would like Ruth to stop talking about it. The Liberals might

:48:25. > :48:29.be squeezed out, that is their fear when it comes to that. Let's stick

:48:30. > :48:34.with prospects for the party. What they are trying to say here is the

:48:35. > :48:37.memories of the coalition with the Conservatives are beginning to fade

:48:38. > :48:42.and they are beginning to offer a distinctive pitch with the penny for

:48:43. > :48:47.education, what do you make of that? I think you are right, the word

:48:48. > :48:51.being used when I was talking to people was muted, the

:48:52. > :48:55.disillusionment people felt about Nick Clegg's coalition with David

:48:56. > :49:01.Cameron. But it's still a factor. This Conference does look like a

:49:02. > :49:05.glorified village fete, albeit a very posh one with these lovely

:49:06. > :49:10.chandeliers behind us, but it's not a big Conference, the Lib Dems are

:49:11. > :49:13.going... You have an allotment, you would be at home with a village

:49:14. > :49:19.fete, displaying your leeks with your prize vegetables. No

:49:20. > :49:26.chandeliers in our village hall. No, I think from what I'm taking up, the

:49:27. > :49:30.Liberal Democrats, privately, would be very happy to come out of this

:49:31. > :49:34.election with the five MSP they have at the moment. There was a lot of

:49:35. > :49:38.talk in the speech about the great candidates they have. Their

:49:39. > :49:41.write-ups of picking up a seat in Edinburgh, the Lothians, possibly

:49:42. > :49:45.west of Scotland. If they come away with the five they have, they will

:49:46. > :49:49.be privately pretty satisfied. Party of prospect was yeah, I think they

:49:50. > :49:53.will be lucky to retain what they have at the moment. They might be

:49:54. > :49:56.saying the angry response to the coalition is muted, yet, people

:49:57. > :50:00.might be saying that to the activists on their doorstep, but I

:50:01. > :50:04.have a feeling they are closing the door, thinking that's not where my

:50:05. > :50:09.vote is going in May. That's turned to a couple of issues raised this

:50:10. > :50:13.morning, the vote on fracking. It was a confused debate, but they did

:50:14. > :50:18.vote for an amendment that says the go-ahead of licensing for fracking,

:50:19. > :50:22.party leaders stressing their work and straights and caveats, what did

:50:23. > :50:27.you make of it? It was a big surprise. In the next few weeks, the

:50:28. > :50:31.Lib Dems are going to come under great pressure from the Greens, the

:50:32. > :50:36.reaction from the environmental lobby to this decision to overturn

:50:37. > :50:41.previous opposition to fracking has been what you would expect. The

:50:42. > :50:43.environmental lobby is furious, the Greens are furious. Willie Rennie

:50:44. > :50:48.talking to us in the press room after the speech was trying to

:50:49. > :50:52.explain this away in terms of localism, in terms of returning

:50:53. > :50:57.decision-making to local councils. I suspect this is a signal that this

:50:58. > :51:02.decision may be finessed somewhat over the coming days and weeks.

:51:03. > :51:06.Finessed overnight. They are publishing a pre-manifesto document

:51:07. > :51:11.tomorrow, it's my understanding... I must be psychic. I understand the

:51:12. > :51:15.policy carried this morning might not feature in that document, what

:51:16. > :51:18.did you make of that vote? The interesting thing about it is how

:51:19. > :51:22.confused it was, you made the point that people didn't necessarily know

:51:23. > :51:25.what they were voting for. It was the other motion this morning on

:51:26. > :51:28.council tax that was the mother, people didn't necessarily know what

:51:29. > :51:33.they were voting for, which is pretty amazing given the size of the

:51:34. > :51:37.Conference. So few people but you can't work out what you are doing.

:51:38. > :51:42.Going on the local taxation point, they voted in principle for property

:51:43. > :51:46.taxation rather than the long cherished policy of local income

:51:47. > :51:51.tax, but no details yet. We know all the parties in Scotland will have to

:51:52. > :51:54.come forward with some kind of replacement or rejuvenation of the

:51:55. > :51:58.council tax policy in their manifestos. The choice seems between

:51:59. > :52:03.property tax, income tax, or some hybrid of the two. In principle

:52:04. > :52:07.they've gone for property tax but presumably it'll have to be a

:52:08. > :52:11.radically reformed version of the council tax we have at the moment

:52:12. > :52:14.that is so discredited. We expect the Scottish Government to publish

:52:15. > :52:22.thinking on this next week, where are we heading there? Where we are

:52:23. > :52:27.heading is a revamped council tax plus what Nicola Sturgeon told us

:52:28. > :52:34.about assigning abortion of income tax to local councils. Not allowing

:52:35. > :52:38.them to vary it. To my mind it means a separate local income tax is

:52:39. > :52:41.probably no longer on the table and they will be doing the assigning

:52:42. > :52:45.instead. We had no confirmation. The Liberal Democrats, what they've done

:52:46. > :52:52.today brings them into line with every other party. We don't know

:52:53. > :52:56.what they think about council tax. The slogan on the party Conference

:52:57. > :53:01.platform says Liberal Democrats will fight back, is there a fightback on

:53:02. > :53:05.the way? Willie Rennie is insistent there is, it's a feisty fight back,

:53:06. > :53:09.you can call this Conference a lot of things, feisty wouldn't be the

:53:10. > :53:13.first word. I've written a column about this tomorrow and can

:53:14. > :53:17.exclusively reveal it says that the hashtag Lib Dem fightback looked a

:53:18. > :53:18.little bit optimistic. Thank you very much indeed, back to the

:53:19. > :53:20.studio. Brian, your final spot for today,

:53:21. > :53:24.thank you for your efforts. Just time now for some final

:53:25. > :53:31.thoughts from John Curtice. This is the first Conference of the

:53:32. > :53:35.spring season. All the parties will have to struggle with council tax.

:53:36. > :53:40.Indeed, as Lindsay and Magnus referred to at the end of the

:53:41. > :53:45.conversation, everybody now seems to accept the council tax, at least as

:53:46. > :53:53.currently in force, it can no longer survive. It has been eroded by the

:53:54. > :53:57.council tax freeze and is widely thought the range of brands mean

:53:58. > :54:03.it's an adequate tax. All the parties have agreed it should be

:54:04. > :54:07.changed. It's deeply potentially treacherous, this area, politically.

:54:08. > :54:11.Why do we have the council tax? Because of the unpopularity of its

:54:12. > :54:15.predecessor the poll tax. We had the poll tax because of the unpopularity

:54:16. > :54:19.of the attempt to change property values in Scotland. The truth is

:54:20. > :54:24.attempts to change local taxation often fairly readily create winners

:54:25. > :54:29.and losers and the losers shout and the winners want to pocket the gain.

:54:30. > :54:33.We'll have to wait and see what all four parties come up with. Apart

:54:34. > :54:36.from the fact this will be the first election in which they have to take

:54:37. > :54:40.a stance on the level of income tax and spending, they have this

:54:41. > :54:45.particularly knotty and potentially difficult issue of how to deal with

:54:46. > :54:51.local taxation. All cuts have done so far is to say, we think the old

:54:52. > :54:54.policy was wrong, we have to do something with a mixture of land and

:54:55. > :54:59.property, not sure what, which means they still have a decision to make.

:55:00. > :55:04.Delegates seemed confused as to what was on offer. Time is ticking for

:55:05. > :55:13.them to get the manifesto ready for a full it is indeed. -- get the

:55:14. > :55:21.manifesto ready for a May election. It is indeed. They may not have

:55:22. > :55:25.wanted us to pore over it and identify advantages and

:55:26. > :55:28.disadvantages. I think we can anticipate during the course of the

:55:29. > :55:31.Scottish election campaign that the policies all the parties will have

:55:32. > :55:35.to put forward will get picked and are picked and it'll certainly carry

:55:36. > :55:39.forward next week when we get a publication of the Scottish

:55:40. > :55:42.Government proposals in this area. We heard Magnus at the Conference

:55:43. > :55:47.describing the place as a glorified village fete, talking about the

:55:48. > :55:52.Conference slogan, hashtag Lib Dem fightback. Willie Rennie was

:55:53. > :55:58.apparently talking about there being a feisty fightback. Tim Farron, the

:55:59. > :56:02.UK leader, speaking tomorrow, and anonymous character. How well do you

:56:03. > :56:07.think the Lib Dem fightback is going at the moment? The honest cancer is

:56:08. > :56:12.based have a long way to go, not just in Scotland but across the UK

:56:13. > :56:20.as a whole, this is a party now trying to avoid being cast into a

:56:21. > :56:24.fringe world in UK politics. It is already down to five members at

:56:25. > :56:28.Hollywood, its local government base across the whole UK is weaker than

:56:29. > :56:32.it has been for 40 years, it's not the fourth party at Westminster

:56:33. > :56:36.either in terms of seats or fruits, this is now a party that looks as

:56:37. > :56:44.weak as it has done since the worst period, the post-war period in the

:56:45. > :56:47.50s or 60s. -- seats all votes. They need to make progress in this

:56:48. > :56:51.election and avoid being tossed out of the National Assembly of Wales,

:56:52. > :56:54.which is a risk. They need to make gains in local government elections

:56:55. > :56:58.in England because at least what they are defending in local

:56:59. > :57:04.government elections in England are disastrous results four years ago.

:57:05. > :57:09.The party will want to begin to say to people, we're making progress,

:57:10. > :57:12.because if it doesn't make progress in the elections in Scotland and

:57:13. > :57:17.across the UK, this coming May, it may well be many people decide this

:57:18. > :57:22.is a party they can now afford to ignore. It's really interesting, you

:57:23. > :57:26.say they are really struggling with their major party status here, and I

:57:27. > :57:31.suppose after the election in May it could be a watershed moment, quite

:57:32. > :57:35.pivotal, because after that we could see a real gauge of Scottish

:57:36. > :57:42.politics. Undoubtedly, we already in a situation where we have one very

:57:43. > :57:46.large party, two moderately sized parties and won rather small party

:57:47. > :57:50.together with the Greens, the Liberal Democrats are the rather

:57:51. > :57:54.small party. They ideally want representation at Hollywood up, so

:57:55. > :57:56.at least the gap between them and the Conservatives and Labour Party

:57:57. > :58:02.doesn't look so wide as it is, because in truth, to be regarded as

:58:03. > :58:05.a credible, significant player in Scotland, they cannot maintain that

:58:06. > :58:10.position on five MSP 's for too long. Willie Rennie has almost had

:58:11. > :58:16.to be the sole spokesperson for their party for the past two years,

:58:17. > :58:20.a number of their MSPs don't have a high public profile, they need more

:58:21. > :58:25.MSPs with a high profile otherwise they will become its players both in

:58:26. > :58:30.Scotland and across the UK as a whole. Thanks very much, John. We'll

:58:31. > :58:31.be here next Friday for the Conservative Conference.

:58:32. > :58:34.Our live conference coverage is coming to an end here on BBC Two.

:58:35. > :58:37.The Lib Dems continue to meet in Edinburgh tomorrow.

:58:38. > :58:39.There's more coverage of that from BBC Scotland on TV,

:58:40. > :58:53.You can catch up on events at 6:30pm tonight.

:58:54. > :58:57.From the team on the conference floor and from us here

:58:58. > :59:06.I've kept what happened to me buried away for 50 years.

:59:07. > :59:08.I only want to know if he's all right.

:59:09. > :59:13.My guess is that Anthony was adopted and sent to America.

:59:14. > :59:19.She's spent her whole life trying to find him.

:59:20. > :59:21.I just want to talk to you about my son.

:59:22. > :59:27.He was taken from me and I've been looking for him ever since.

:59:28. > :59:32.The network premiere of the critically-acclaimed Philomena...