20/10/2012

:00:44. > :00:47.Good afternoon. Welcome to our live coverage of the SNP's autumn

:00:47. > :00:52.conference. Delegates are gathering for two here Alex Salmond's speech

:00:52. > :00:56.in a few moments time. He is able to brandish the Edinburgh agreement

:00:56. > :01:01.which paves the way for the independence referendum but the

:01:01. > :01:07.party faithful have been divided. The SNP change their anti-Nato

:01:07. > :01:13.stance following a passionate debates. I have marched for CND. I

:01:13. > :01:18.have protested against Trident. I demonstrated against the Iraq war.

:01:18. > :01:25.I am tired marching. I want a seat for our government in the

:01:25. > :01:29.situations of power. Who dares wins. Angus Robertson is reported to have

:01:29. > :01:34.said after winning the crucial NATO vote and it has been quite a

:01:34. > :01:37.conference so far. I am joined here by Professor John Curtice of

:01:37. > :01:42.Strathclyde University and Brian Taylor our political editor is

:01:42. > :01:46.standing by in the concert hall. Good afternoon. Thank you for

:01:46. > :01:51.joining me. It has been quite a conference already. Alex Salmond

:01:52. > :01:57.will be arguing in his speech in a few moments for a Yes vote in the

:01:57. > :02:03.referendum that he had to argue for it in the NATO vote yesterday.

:02:03. > :02:08.he actually sat silent and grinned gently and persuasively throughout

:02:08. > :02:17.and nobly applauded all of the prone NATO speakers, those in

:02:17. > :02:21.favour of Scottish membership of NATO and he raised his hand very

:02:21. > :02:24.firmly in favour of the resolution changing party policy. I think he

:02:24. > :02:29.will make a reference to it right at the outset of his speech and I

:02:29. > :02:34.gather it was being updated just a short time ago. I think he will

:02:34. > :02:39.describe it as a sense of maturity within the party and an open debate

:02:39. > :02:45.with open division within the party and a decision agreed that. I think

:02:45. > :02:48.it was promulgated within the party more generally. I don't think there

:02:48. > :02:53.will be rancour because those who lost were feeling sore and there

:02:53. > :02:57.were some hard words used during the debate but the prize of

:02:57. > :03:02.independence for the SNP is so gigantic and so yearned for over

:03:02. > :03:07.the decades that I think they would subjugate any discontent there was

:03:07. > :03:10.lingering after the NATO debate. course here in the studio is the

:03:11. > :03:17.Edinburgh agreement that Alex Salmond signed on Monday. It is

:03:17. > :03:21.quite something to offer up to conference. It concentrates minds.

:03:21. > :03:26.They always expected there would be a referendum. There are no

:03:26. > :03:31.agreements there would be a referendum or a strike fight --

:03:31. > :03:34.straight fight on independence. That is what everyone wanted in

:03:34. > :03:36.their hearts. They understood the strategic regions where Alex

:03:36. > :03:41.Salmond was toying with other options but what they really want

:03:41. > :03:46.is to get down to the fighter back independence. I think that was a

:03:46. > :03:50.key factor in the debate yesterday. You heard the click from the Kenny

:03:50. > :03:53.MacAskill speech and in essence he was saying there is a principal

:03:53. > :03:56.argument for NATO which others were making that he was making the

:03:56. > :04:00.pragmatic argument saying that the folk in Scotland want the

:04:00. > :04:03.reassurance of being in NATO and the defence posture that it

:04:03. > :04:07.represents. We should not remove that reassurance when we are trying

:04:07. > :04:12.to persuade them to vote for independence. A more from later but

:04:12. > :04:16.I will let you get into the concert hall to hear the speech. Professor

:04:16. > :04:22.John Curtice, it has been quite a conference sofa but now it is time

:04:22. > :04:27.for the SNP to concentrate on the bike for the yes vote. A indeed.

:04:27. > :04:30.Although this is normally an SNP party conference, this is a major

:04:30. > :04:34.occasion for the Yes campaign and I suspect most of the campaign speech

:04:34. > :04:38.this afternoon will be not about what the SNP is doing in government

:04:38. > :04:43.as opposed to trying to put some impetus behind the Yes campaign.

:04:43. > :04:49.The truth is it needs some impetus. We have had a opinion polls in the

:04:49. > :04:52.last fortnight confirming the evidence that says the Yes campaign

:04:52. > :05:00.is starting the campaign from behind and the support has slipped

:05:00. > :05:04.during the course of this year. It suggests a drop of about 9% in

:05:04. > :05:11.support for independence since January this year. What he will

:05:11. > :05:16.undoubtedly focus on his the economic arguments for independence.

:05:16. > :05:21.The research I have done and plenty of other evidence suggests that

:05:21. > :05:25.unless people are convinced that Scotland is going to be financially

:05:25. > :05:30.stronger, perhaps they might be better off, people are not going to

:05:30. > :05:33.vote for independence. At the moment, at least, at best only

:05:33. > :05:38.around one-third of people in Scotland think that Scotland would

:05:38. > :05:42.be better off financially and independence. It is an argument the

:05:42. > :05:45.SNP badly need to win and I think that is something he will focus on.

:05:45. > :05:48.He needs to move on from the arguments that will convince people

:05:48. > :05:53.in the hall witches, you were Scottish and you want to be a

:05:53. > :05:56.separate independent company -- country, two outside the hall which

:05:56. > :06:00.is a promise of a financially better world and independence is

:06:00. > :06:05.the way to achieve that. Nicola Sturgeon is addressing the --

:06:05. > :06:09.delegates in the hall at the moment and introducing Alex Salmond. It is

:06:09. > :06:13.interesting that you are pointing out the polls from when the

:06:13. > :06:17.referendum was announced in January, that they seem to have slipped a

:06:17. > :06:20.bit for independence. It must be very worrying. It must be quite a

:06:21. > :06:24.considerable worry for the Yes campaign. What must be at the back

:06:24. > :06:28.of their mind is that Perhaps from January onwards Scotland began to

:06:28. > :06:31.realise that we are really were going to have a referendum on

:06:31. > :06:35.independence and is there a possibility that now the choice has

:06:35. > :06:41.become a real one that at least some people in Scotland have drawn

:06:41. > :06:44.back a bit and said, hang on, I am not sure that is what I really want.

:06:44. > :06:48.One thing we have discovered is that it remains the case even last

:06:48. > :06:53.year that around half of the people in Scotland say they are worried

:06:53. > :06:57.about the prospect of independence as well as persuading people of the

:06:57. > :07:00.financial benefits of independence, Alex Salmond has got to provide

:07:00. > :07:03.reassurance. They have got to convince people that this is not

:07:03. > :07:07.something I have to be worried about that something to be

:07:07. > :07:11.confident about. Confidence is a word that he he frequently uses and

:07:11. > :07:14.says the country needs to be confident and he is absolutely

:07:14. > :07:19.right. Eight Scotland is going to vote in favour of independence it

:07:19. > :07:21.has to feel confident about the prospect of a happening. Brian

:07:21. > :07:26.Taylor was pointing that out on Monday on the day that they signed

:07:26. > :07:30.the agreement, doubt and reassurance. He is trying to

:07:30. > :07:35.provide that reassurance when times are tough, and economic times are

:07:35. > :07:39.tough, where do people tend to go to? They tend to stick to what they

:07:39. > :07:44.are safe with? This is something that will be interesting about this

:07:44. > :07:47.speech. There are two ways of looking at it, it is a tough

:07:47. > :07:52.financial world globally so can Scotland as a small country survive

:07:52. > :07:57.in that environment? Is a more hostile environment one that makes

:07:57. > :08:01.people drawback? Insofar as what Alex Salmond and the Yes campaign

:08:01. > :08:07.task is, it is to persuade people that an independent Scotland would

:08:07. > :08:11.be better off than a Scotland in the union, given that the United

:08:11. > :08:14.Kingdom has substantial economic problems so to that extent his task

:08:14. > :08:18.becomes the the up. It is worth remembering that the Independent's

:08:18. > :08:22.campaign first really took off in the 1970s when Britain was last in

:08:22. > :08:25.serious economic trouble. A thank you very much for that. There is

:08:25. > :08:29.Alex Salmond, the SNP leader and First Minister appearing on the

:08:29. > :08:39.stage at Perth concert hall and about to give his lead a's speech.

:08:39. > :08:47.

:08:47. > :08:53.Let us listen in now. What she didn't tell you, delegates,

:08:53. > :08:57.is that I phoned reverse charges! That is the great thing about

:08:57. > :09:07.having Nicola Sturgeon as Deputy First Minister of Scotland is that

:09:07. > :09:09.

:09:09. > :09:19.you don't have to ask why for First Minister's questions. Getting from

:09:19. > :09:21.

:09:21. > :09:25.A to B can be a problem. This is how it was, I was on the train

:09:25. > :09:29.yesterday. LAUGHTER.

:09:30. > :09:39.In a first-class carriage with my second class ticket.

:09:40. > :09:43.

:09:43. > :09:49.Someone came up to me impudently doing his job. I said to him, don't

:09:49. > :09:56.you never why am, my man? I and the Chancellor of the Exchequer! He is

:09:56. > :10:01.said to me he was these of all Russia and I should get off the

:10:01. > :10:08.train. Delegates, there is a serious point

:10:08. > :10:16.in this for us and for all Scotland. Why on earth do we allow this bunch

:10:16. > :10:26.of incompetent Lord snooty's to be in a position of authority over our

:10:26. > :10:26.

:10:27. > :10:33.country. CHEERING.

:10:33. > :10:42.Why does the Labour Party think it can survive getting into bed with

:10:43. > :10:48.them in the No campaign? Delegates, when I opened our

:10:48. > :10:54.proceedings just a couple of days ago, I spoke of the giants of our

:10:54. > :10:58.party and I said that I trusted this conference. This is a trust

:10:58. > :11:07.based not on a single result for a specific vote but on the way that I

:11:07. > :11:13.knew this party of our was would conduct itself in debate. Yesterday

:11:13. > :11:20.I have no doubt we saw one of the finest debates in our party's

:11:20. > :11:27.history. APPLAUSE.

:11:27. > :11:32.I am certain that those giants, let us remember them, Robert Macintyre,

:11:32. > :11:36.Neil McCormac, Margaret Ewing, listening and watching yesterday's

:11:36. > :11:42.debate on the future defence policy of power country would have been

:11:42. > :11:45.proud of the party. APPLAUSE.

:11:45. > :11:50.Conference, there are good reasons why the people of Scotland have

:11:50. > :11:55.placed their trust in the SNP over to Scottish elections. They have

:11:56. > :12:00.shone out like a beacon from this conference hall yesterday afternoon.

:12:00. > :12:04.Different views, honestly held, openly debated, democratically

:12:04. > :12:08.agreed. When we started this conference we had already

:12:08. > :12:13.demonstrated over five years that we have a party that is more than

:12:13. > :12:17.capable of being Scotland's devolved government. Today the

:12:17. > :12:22.people of Scotland know that because of the manner in which we

:12:22. > :12:25.have conducted ourselves, we are a party of being capable of being

:12:25. > :12:35.Scotland's first independent government.

:12:35. > :12:39.

:12:39. > :12:44.APPLAUSE. The two years that lie ahead of us

:12:44. > :12:48.now are the most important in our party's history and our country's

:12:48. > :12:53.recent history. They will secure a better future for our families and

:12:53. > :12:58.our nation, a future that starts with a yes vote. Earlier this week

:12:58. > :13:02.I met with the prime minister to sign the Edinburgh agreement. It is

:13:02. > :13:06.an agreement which gives our own Parliament unchallenged legal

:13:06. > :13:10.authority to hold a referendum, which agrees the process, respect

:13:10. > :13:14.the outcome and commits both governments to working with that

:13:15. > :13:24.decision in the best interests of our people. Delegates, it is game

:13:25. > :13:28.

:13:28. > :13:35.on for Scotland. APPLAUSE.

:13:36. > :13:41.That referendum creates a once in a generation opportunity. That must

:13:41. > :13:46.include the new generation. 16 and 17 year-olds, young Scots he can

:13:46. > :13:52.marry and register for the army and paid tax, young Scots who I can

:13:53. > :14:00.confirm today will have the opportunity to vote on Scotland's

:14:00. > :14:04.future. APPLAUSE.

:14:04. > :14:09.It is interesting that the political parties to have refused

:14:09. > :14:14.to support 16-year-old and 78-year- old voting on a changing their tune.

:14:14. > :14:18.They now say how important it is that all of them vote, not just the

:14:18. > :14:22.ones on the register. Conference, I can tell you today that we intend

:14:22. > :14:27.to introduce a bill over the next few weeks that shall make it

:14:27. > :14:37.possible for all 16-year-old and 17 year olds to vote, if that is the

:14:37. > :14:40.

:14:40. > :14:44.will of Scotland's parliament. APPLAUSE.

:14:44. > :14:49.With Scotland's future in Scotland's hands we can create a

:14:49. > :14:55.better country, we can choose a different path. This referendum is

:14:55. > :15:00.not just about an independent Scotland. It is about a belief that

:15:00. > :15:04.for Scotland there can be, there must be, a better way. Of course it

:15:04. > :15:09.is not and has never been just about achieving our constitutional

:15:09. > :15:15.objectives, it is about using that power to create a more prosperous

:15:15. > :15:19.economy and a more just society. We know that there are many of our

:15:19. > :15:23.fellow citizens that remain to be convinced about the merits of

:15:23. > :15:28.independence. We also know that there is a majority for change in

:15:28. > :15:34.this country. We know that at heart people trust their own parliament

:15:34. > :15:39.far more than they will ever trust Westminster. We know that when

:15:39. > :15:44.asked about individual powers, with Rick the defence, social welfare,

:15:44. > :15:49.people want these decisions to be controlled in Scotland. We know

:15:49. > :15:53.that economic policy should be decided by the Scottish Parliament.

:15:53. > :15:58.Let us put these popular aspirations together. A parliament

:15:58. > :16:03.that decides on social welfare, Trident, the economy and represents

:16:03. > :16:09.Scotland on the world stage and you have an independent parliament. For

:16:09. > :16:14.independence is not a single event, it is a process, but it is a

:16:14. > :16:19.process that involves more than just the transfer of powers. It is

:16:19. > :16:29.a process by which all of us accept the responsibility for changing our

:16:29. > :16:39.

:16:39. > :16:42.country and our communities for the In 1997, we made the case for a

:16:42. > :16:46.fairer Scotland and three quarters of the people voted for that

:16:46. > :16:50.proposition, people across Scotland to wanted a stronger say in

:16:50. > :16:55.decisions that affect them and their families. And over the years,

:16:55. > :16:59.that appetite has grown. They have seen what a parliament achieves and

:17:00. > :17:06.they like it. Many want independence and many want powers,

:17:06. > :17:11.but the majority of our fellow- citizens off for change. In 2014,

:17:11. > :17:16.the voice of the people of Scotland will be heard again. Today, I ask

:17:16. > :17:20.all of those who wanted that fair and democratic country to pause and

:17:20. > :17:24.reflect on the kind of nation they would deny it -- they would now

:17:24. > :17:31.like Scotland to be. To think of the progress that has been made and

:17:31. > :17:35.to consider it -- and to consider the next step on Scotland's journey.

:17:35. > :17:39.Friends, I One Nation understands what we need to do to make Scotland

:17:39. > :17:45.the police should be, to build a fairer nation and turn potential

:17:45. > :17:50.into prosperity. The choice is clear. Scotland can vote No and

:17:50. > :17:57.secured note -- and Secure nothing, we can vote Yes to get the platform

:17:57. > :18:07.we need. We speak to those who said yes to Scotland before and will say

:18:07. > :18:17.

:18:17. > :18:25.yes to Scotland, and to progress, The SNP once published a pamphlet

:18:25. > :18:29.about the Scotland and we seek. That is a country united by

:18:29. > :18:34.ambition and confidence, that achieves its potential and wear

:18:34. > :18:38.haute eclipses fear. Over two years, the task is clear. To tell the

:18:39. > :18:45.truth about Scotland and what we can achieve and to proclaim that we

:18:45. > :18:51.have all we truly need to prosper, that together, we can rebuild this

:18:51. > :18:56.nation, creating a Scotland that flourishes once again. Standing

:18:56. > :19:00.alongside these other nations as new partners and true friends. That,

:19:01. > :19:10.delegates, is the platform on which we shall win independence for our

:19:11. > :19:21.

:19:21. > :19:26.He as for the No campaign. Their objective is somewhat different.

:19:26. > :19:30.They are against independence for one reason, because it would be run

:19:30. > :19:35.by an independent Scotland for the people of Scotland. Instead of

:19:35. > :19:42.telling people what we can do, at they tell us what we cannot do. The

:19:42. > :19:52.irony is that most of them are chained to a Westminster Parliament

:19:52. > :19:57.that cannot run a railway, never mind if a country! For -- a country.

:19:57. > :20:03.Labour is the party that brought the country to its financial knees.

:20:03. > :20:09.The Tories are a shambles. Collectively, they tell us Scotland,

:20:09. > :20:19.we are incapable of running our country! A message is clear enough,

:20:19. > :20:29.abandon hope, a new who vote No! We are abandoning -- we are Roques off

:20:29. > :20:34.

:20:34. > :20:38.Fay! -- we are a bunch of rogues! Westminster is beyond salvation.

:20:38. > :20:45.But a social democratic Scotland can still be won. According to the

:20:45. > :20:52.Labour Party, Scotland has become something for nothing country. So

:20:52. > :20:59.exactly who we are these people who want something for nothing? Is it a

:20:59. > :21:04.pensioner who wants the right to travel and the fear of not being

:21:04. > :21:10.able to fund their care? The family and �16,000 a year who had to

:21:10. > :21:14.choose previously between prescribed medicines before this

:21:14. > :21:22.Government restored to health service free for her for those who

:21:22. > :21:26.needed it? Who is it a student who now has the right way free

:21:26. > :21:33.education so they can redeem their commitment to society through free

:21:33. > :21:38.education? Those who want something for nothing, according to Labour,

:21:38. > :21:44.are your friends, neighbours, the workers, at parents, grandchildren,

:21:44. > :21:47.children, so let us tell the Labour leadership about the reality of our

:21:48. > :21:53.fellow Scots. They do not want something for nothing, they just

:21:53. > :21:56.want the right to live in a country which understands the importance of

:21:56. > :22:01.society. That knows the value in not just the price of the services

:22:01. > :22:04.we hold dear. These are the fruits not just of this party or

:22:04. > :22:09.government but of a Scottish Parliament that chose to reflect

:22:09. > :22:16.the nation in these ways. It is a social contract between Parliament

:22:16. > :22:26.and people. Some college universality. Who -- as some call

:22:26. > :22:26.

:22:27. > :22:36.it. They say it's time has passed. I call it human decency and it's

:22:37. > :22:42.

:22:42. > :22:47.time is now. -- its time. I would be tempted to say that Labour knows

:22:47. > :22:55.the price of everything and the value of nothing. But they do not

:22:56. > :23:05.even know the price of anything! These great games of the parliament,

:23:05. > :23:09.cost just over 3% of the Scottish budget. Since 2007 and, John

:23:09. > :23:19.Swinney's efficiency programme and a Scottish government -- and the

:23:19. > :23:22.

:23:22. > :23:28.Scottish government has saved more An interesting figure because the

:23:28. > :23:33.guru but Labour have chosen for their cuts Commission said in 2007

:23:33. > :23:38.that no government could manage even 1% a year -- that Labour. You

:23:38. > :23:43.cannot manage if you put bureaucracy before people and if

:23:43. > :23:47.your response to every challenge is to give up, that is New Labour. I

:23:47. > :23:53.will wait is very different. We expect public services to be run

:23:53. > :23:58.properly -- away is different. We judged on output and not just input.

:23:59. > :24:03.We can run the police and fire services of Scotland on a Scottish

:24:03. > :24:07.basis more efficiency while protecting the frontline. We know

:24:07. > :24:12.that free personal care is not a giveaway to the older generation.

:24:12. > :24:17.It removes fear and provides dignity, it boosts the independence

:24:17. > :24:22.and well-being of tens of thousands of fellow-citizens. It prevents the

:24:22. > :24:27.needs for many -- the need for many older people to be admitted to

:24:27. > :24:34.geriatric wards and helps to support them in our homes and

:24:34. > :24:39.communities. Conference, it was the vanguard of turning values into law,

:24:39. > :24:43.as the Labour Party once said. We believe that the parliament's

:24:43. > :24:47.policies and personal care, transport and education, it

:24:47. > :24:56.promotes solidarity and prevents the bona bowl from being isolated,

:24:56. > :25:01.and does not discriminate against hard-working families who have

:25:01. > :25:06.saved. -- and prevents them vulnerable. Have no doubt that what

:25:06. > :25:16.was gained by devolution and can only now by a -- can only now be

:25:16. > :25:26.

:25:26. > :25:32.Her no sooner have Labour moved on to Tory ground that if the other

:25:32. > :25:36.Tories became even more extreme. They declared that only 12% of

:25:36. > :25:42.Scottish households were contributing to the country, only

:25:42. > :25:52.12% were responsible for generating Scotland's wealth. Even Mitt Romney

:25:52. > :25:54.

:25:54. > :25:59.only dismissed 47% of the US population! That is not good enough

:25:59. > :26:05.for the Tory leader in Scotland, she dismissed 88% of the country!

:26:05. > :26:09.Let's forget for a second that she got her calculations wrong and we

:26:09. > :26:19.are the same figure as the UK, she forgot that corporate tax and

:26:19. > :26:21.

:26:21. > :26:25.public sector workers, she forgot about all of them. Consider the

:26:25. > :26:30.mentality of every pensioner in this country as unproductive. I

:26:30. > :26:40.know a lot of pensioners who have never sworn at a police officer or

:26:40. > :26:48.

:26:48. > :26:52.Who put him he and I do not know a single Scottish pensioner -- and I

:26:52. > :26:59.do not know a single Scottish pensioner who has been less

:26:59. > :27:06.productive than David Cameron or George Osborne! Delegates, the

:27:06. > :27:14.Tories will wonder why it about 13% support them in the Scottish polls,

:27:14. > :27:19.but they are lucky! Labour and Tory, the great pillars of the union.

:27:19. > :27:23.United in a death grip programme to sweep away concessionary travel,

:27:23. > :27:29.free prescriptions and education. Some in Holyrood think that

:27:29. > :27:34.Labour's new approach is clever. Conference, I have no doubt it is

:27:34. > :27:39.not wise. It is not wise to end the social solidarity that benefits all

:27:39. > :27:44.the people. It is not good politics to betray the fact they would

:27:44. > :27:48.continue with Tory austerity if they were returned to government.

:27:48. > :27:55.At the Scottish Trades Union Congress described Labour's views

:27:55. > :27:59.as a screen -- as extreme. Last year, Scotland lost a giant of the

:27:59. > :28:04.trade union movement, at Campbell Christie was loved by many for his

:28:04. > :28:10.principles and his courage and wisdom. In an interview before his

:28:10. > :28:15.passing, this is what he had to say. People say we cannot afford things

:28:15. > :28:19.now. In 1948, we could not afford the National Health Service and

:28:19. > :28:23.pension schemes but we did it, and when you look at the question of

:28:23. > :28:29.provision and support, you need to remember how little they had been

:28:29. > :28:35.back then and how important it was to make it happen. It was in that

:28:35. > :28:39.spirit that devolution was one. Devolution brought to life by

:28:39. > :28:46.people of all persuasions and of none, people with a vision of a

:28:46. > :28:49.better and different Scotland. Now Labour's leaders tell Scotland we

:28:49. > :28:55.have well-off enough for Westminster's weapons of mass

:28:55. > :29:00.destruction, but they say we are to pork for Scotland's free personal

:29:00. > :29:10.care. If that is the price of London government, it is a price

:29:10. > :29:19.

:29:19. > :29:25.Who this party, this Government, it makes no apology for standing

:29:25. > :29:30.behind four-square the devolution it -- the gains of the devolution

:29:30. > :29:40.Iraq and against those hard-pressed families that an affair and to work

:29:40. > :29:41.

:29:41. > :29:45.hard to extend these gains -- but to leave -- the devolution argument.

:29:45. > :29:51.The process of early intervention will prevent the spending, by which

:29:51. > :29:55.we will build the platform of opportunity for all Scottish people.

:29:56. > :30:02.Even under the most extreme budgetary pressure from Westminster,

:30:02. > :30:06.John Swinney has diverted substantial sums, �500 million, two

:30:06. > :30:10.children's early years, after reshaping care for older people and

:30:10. > :30:16.reducing re-offending. Within the limits of devolution, there is only

:30:16. > :30:21.so much we can achieve, but, conference, that will not stop us

:30:21. > :30:25.doing what is right and to point the way to a better future. We want

:30:25. > :30:31.Scotland to be the best place in the world for a child to grow up. I

:30:31. > :30:35.am proud to save the family nurse partnership has already made a

:30:35. > :30:41.valuable difference to the lives of the families and four health boards

:30:41. > :30:47.that use this programme. Since 2010, B initiative have supported her --

:30:47. > :30:51.has supported 450 first-time mothers and their children. The

:30:51. > :30:56.benefits of family nurses are clear to anyone meeting them and the

:30:56. > :31:00.families they help. On Monday, I met with one nurse, Caroline

:31:00. > :31:04.Mackenzie, in Edinburgh, who told me of the fantastic work they do

:31:04. > :31:09.helping to improve the health of mother and child, to increase

:31:09. > :31:17.employment prospects and helping children's readiness for school and

:31:17. > :31:20.future academic achievements. We aim to be the best in the world at

:31:20. > :31:24.implementation of the family nurse partnership. So I am delighted to

:31:24. > :31:28.announce that with �11 million over the next two years, we will ensure

:31:28. > :31:33.the establishment of this partnership across Scotland by the

:31:33. > :31:43.end of 2015, benefiting thousands of families and giving some of the

:31:43. > :31:49.

:31:49. > :31:54.most vulnerable children the best Conference, let our message be

:31:54. > :32:04.heard clearly. This party, Scotland's party, has and never

:32:04. > :32:08.will lack ambition for our future generations. Our ambition for

:32:08. > :32:13.Scotland's children goes further. The country we pass on to the next

:32:13. > :32:16.generation must be better than the country we have today. Across

:32:16. > :32:20.Scotland I know that every parent hopes that the life their child

:32:20. > :32:27.enjoys will be better than their own, that their sons and daughters

:32:27. > :32:32.will see greater security, opportunity, happiness. Friends,

:32:32. > :32:34.for the first time in generations, this natural progression is now in

:32:34. > :32:39.doubt. That is why being independent is so important, not

:32:39. > :32:43.just for the Scotland of today but for the Scotland of tomorrow. If

:32:43. > :32:48.independence is to mean anything it must improve the chances, the life

:32:48. > :32:53.chances of every single young Scot. Delegates, that is why the first

:32:53. > :32:58.fruits of an independent parliament should be felt by our youngest

:32:58. > :33:02.Scots. It is our duty to lay these foundations for a stronger future,

:33:02. > :33:07.just as it's our duty to stand up for the challenges that have

:33:07. > :33:14.haunted Scottish Society for so long. During the debate yesterday

:33:14. > :33:18.some delegates suggested our projected budget was low. I

:33:18. > :33:25.understand that and there must keep the nation secure and we shall.

:33:25. > :33:33.What we missed was that our plans are almost �1 billion lower than

:33:33. > :33:39.what we pay to Westminster at the moment. Much of that will be saved

:33:39. > :33:47.by ending our payments for the Trident programme.

:33:47. > :33:52.APPLAUSE. Let us call it the independence the

:33:52. > :33:56.dividend. Over the next year we will spell out where that -- what

:33:56. > :34:00.that independence dividends could do for services and for jobs and we

:34:00. > :34:07.will start by committing to give every child an equal chance in an

:34:07. > :34:13.independent Scotland. A couple of weeks ago I took advice on a family

:34:13. > :34:18.centre -- I visited a family centre. Let us revolve -- let us resolve

:34:18. > :34:28.for this conference to build these centres in every community in an

:34:28. > :34:30.

:34:30. > :34:35.independent Scotland. APPLAUSE. This country of Scotland, all of us,

:34:35. > :34:40.our community, our still played -- are still paying the price for the

:34:40. > :34:43.last Westminster recession. To many of our fellow citizens were

:34:43. > :34:47.forgotten. Then it Scotland was powerless in the face of a

:34:47. > :34:53.Westminster government that looked the other way and passed by on the

:34:53. > :35:00.other side. It left communities, families bereft of hope. Today the

:35:00. > :35:03.end of the story can be different. From the powers of the evolution,

:35:03. > :35:11.this Government has delivered a record number of modern

:35:11. > :35:13.apprenticeships, offering 26,000 young Scots this year the chance of

:35:13. > :35:18.work and training. We have protected...

:35:18. > :35:22.APPLAUSE. We have protected the numbers going

:35:22. > :35:29.to college and we have an all-time record high of young Scots going to

:35:29. > :35:39.university, dated vindicating our policy of free education.

:35:39. > :35:40.

:35:40. > :35:44.-- totally vindicated. I know that for family is the most

:35:44. > :35:49.important thing today is finding a job and keeping a job. My

:35:49. > :35:59.frustration is this. At a time when Scotland is generating a larger

:35:59. > :35:59.

:35:59. > :36:02.share of taxes and a share of UK spending, as we heard yesterday on

:36:02. > :36:09.the latest figures Scotland contributes nine Quiz 6% of

:36:10. > :36:18.taxation baguettes back 3.6% of expenditure. Financially stronger

:36:18. > :36:22.than the UK. -- but gets. We have access to our own resources and we

:36:22. > :36:27.could invest more, borrow less and save more for the future. We could

:36:27. > :36:32.protect services. Currently, when I demand a new investment to create

:36:32. > :36:40.new jobs and kick-start the economy Westminster can say no, as George

:36:40. > :36:44.Osborne did again just this week. Conference, that no is not just to

:36:44. > :36:48.me as the First Minister of Scotland, it is an ode to thousands

:36:48. > :36:52.of our fellow Scots. Men and women who seek nothing more than the

:36:52. > :36:55.opportunity to have affaire des's work. Let the message go out from

:36:55. > :37:05.this conference to that Conservative Chancellor, Scotland

:37:05. > :37:16.

:37:16. > :37:22.is not in the mood to take no for As Scotland's government, we

:37:22. > :37:27.redouble our efforts. We work together Creating Small businesses

:37:27. > :37:32.and giving them the most competitive tax regime in these

:37:32. > :37:35.islands. We support budding businessmen and women. With their

:37:35. > :37:40.limited powers we do have this Government and its agencies

:37:40. > :37:44.continue to work with every fibre of our being to encourage jobs and

:37:44. > :37:48.growth in this country. For example, in the last two years in a row,

:37:48. > :37:53.Scotland has been the top performing location in these

:37:53. > :37:57.islands for foreign, direct investment. Across the world people

:37:57. > :38:01.see Scotland for who we are, a land of skills, committed people, and

:38:01. > :38:06.worthy of investment. Today I can announce yet another vote of

:38:06. > :38:09.confidence in Scotland and the people. The Hong Kong

:38:09. > :38:19.Telecommunications Company have announced that they will be

:38:19. > :38:22.

:38:22. > :38:27.creating almost 400 new jobs in Glasgow. This will almost double

:38:27. > :38:30.the number of workers at their sight and I welcome that many of

:38:30. > :38:35.these jobs have agreed to be targeted at young people.

:38:35. > :38:42.Conference, this is a much needed and a welcome boost for the Glasgow

:38:42. > :38:49.and Scottish economies. APPLAUSE.

:38:49. > :38:55.What we strive for, as a government of a devolved Scotland, what we

:38:55. > :39:00.strive for we can actually achieve as the Government of an independent

:39:00. > :39:04.Scotland. Day after day, year after year, we can take small steps

:39:04. > :39:10.forward and was Scotland needs is bigger and bolder strides. It is

:39:10. > :39:14.time for Scotland to move up a gear. Delegates, can any of us look

:39:14. > :39:19.around our country and can anybody say that Scotland is as good as it

:39:19. > :39:24.could be, that we are fair enough, equal enough, that we are making

:39:24. > :39:29.the most of the talents and the resources that we have been given?

:39:29. > :39:34.Westminster has had its chance. Westminster has fallen chants --

:39:34. > :39:37.Westminster has fallen short. It is not just that in Westminster and in

:39:37. > :39:41.London we have a government that is unwilling to do its best for

:39:41. > :39:46.Scotland, it is incapable of putting Scotland first. For

:39:46. > :39:52.Scotland, what we have today is no longer good enough. We face a

:39:52. > :39:56.Westminster government that is hell-bent on pulling us -- pulling

:39:56. > :40:01.our society apart at the seams. Austerity, a one-way street with

:40:01. > :40:04.tax cuts for the rich and benefit cuts for the poor. Billions to be

:40:04. > :40:12.spent on new nuclear weapons while families struggle to heat their

:40:12. > :40:17.homes. What kind of brave new world is this? Now is the time for

:40:17. > :40:27.Scotland to choose a different future. Using hour vast resources,

:40:27. > :40:29.

:40:30. > :40:37.our own tax-based for the future. Universities can go to the top.

:40:37. > :40:39.Growing industries in food, drink, tourism, like science, our

:40:39. > :40:45.reputation for excellence in Engineering across the sciences.

:40:45. > :40:51.Given all that we have, I ask again, why isn't Scotland doing better?

:40:51. > :40:58.Let us be clear. Westminster would put this first class nation in the

:40:58. > :41:08.second-class carriages. No more second best for Scotland.

:41:08. > :41:16.

:41:16. > :41:20.It is time, it is past time, for a fresh start for our nation, when

:41:20. > :41:25.opportunities will be seized and not lost. Our resources will be

:41:25. > :41:29.harnessed for the common good and not squandered. We will use our

:41:29. > :41:34.wealth to nurture, not destroy. We seek independence for reason, it is

:41:34. > :41:38.not for me, it is not for this party, it is for a new opportunity

:41:38. > :41:44.for every person in Scotland watching today. Independence is

:41:44. > :41:48.about family and future. It is for a more equal Scotland, the

:41:48. > :41:53.opportunity to change our nation for the good. If we are going to

:41:53. > :41:58.reach a flourishing Green economy, a fairer society, a better future,

:41:58. > :42:05.what better prize is there for any nation? Scotland's time is coming.

:42:05. > :42:15.Our home rule journey began so many years passed by so few is coming

:42:15. > :42:15.

:42:15. > :42:25.out to its conclusion. We say yes to Scotland and two independents.

:42:25. > :42:40.

:42:40. > :42:44.APPLAUSE. The SNP leader and First Minister

:42:44. > :42:50.receiving a standing ovation at there. He criticised the

:42:50. > :42:55.Westminster governments that were led by incompetent Lord Snootys and

:42:56. > :43:01.pointed to his party which is capable of being the first

:43:01. > :43:05.independent government for Scotland. He said they will introduce

:43:05. > :43:10.something in the next few weeks that will make it possible for 16-

:43:10. > :43:14.year-old and 17 year-olds to vote. He wants to rebuild a nation I can

:43:14. > :43:18.build a Scotland Act can flourish. He criticised the Labour Party for

:43:18. > :43:22.there's something for nothing culture and he did not want to end

:43:22. > :43:26.the social solidarity that benefits all the people as he put it. He

:43:26. > :43:32.said the time is coming, yes to Scotland, yes to independence. That

:43:32. > :43:36.is the scene in the hall in Perth. The ovation continues. With me in

:43:36. > :43:40.the studio is Professor John Curtice of Strathclyde University.

:43:40. > :43:44.Your initial reaction? I think three things to pick out about the

:43:44. > :43:48.speech in terms of the tone and style and the it was appealing to.

:43:48. > :43:52.The first thing was the degree to which Alex Salmond tried to present

:43:52. > :43:57.independence as the next stage in a home rule journey. In a sense very

:43:57. > :44:00.clearly trying to appeal to those people who voted for devolution

:44:01. > :44:04.back in 1997 and perhaps in particular to those people who now

:44:04. > :44:10.won the Scottish Parliament to be more powerful but hitherto have

:44:10. > :44:14.been saying they are not in favour of independence. There does seem to

:44:14. > :44:18.be quite a lot of appetite for more taxation powers that welfare power

:44:18. > :44:22.was for the Scottish Parliament. Clearly this is an attempt for

:44:22. > :44:27.somebody to try and broaden the net that might be brought into the

:44:27. > :44:30.independence camp. How was he doing that? One of the crucial ways is a

:44:30. > :44:35.very strong concentration in the speech on the defence of universal

:44:35. > :44:39.free services, free prescriptions, free personal care, free tuition

:44:39. > :44:44.fees. In a sense what he was trying to do was to say that these are

:44:44. > :44:47.some of the distinctive things that Scotland now has as a result of

:44:47. > :44:52.devolution and he used that as an example to demonstrate how Scotland

:44:52. > :44:58.can do things differently and it could do more under independence

:44:58. > :45:03.and presumably appealing to things that will be popular. The third

:45:03. > :45:08.thing is what we expected. There is a lot of imported material about

:45:08. > :45:11.the supposed economic advantages of independence, pointing out as the

:45:11. > :45:15.SNP have repeatedly been doing during the conference, that the

:45:15. > :45:20.Scotland share of the UK taxation is a bigger proportion than is the

:45:20. > :45:25.proportion of UK spending and to suggest therefore that Scotland's

:45:25. > :45:30.financial situation is not so bad. They are the three big things to

:45:30. > :45:35.pick out. If you look at the evidence in the polls, Mr Alex

:45:35. > :45:38.Salmond paid particular emphasis on the independence dividend that is

:45:38. > :45:44.responsible for defence. That is one of the areas where there does

:45:44. > :45:46.not seem to be an appetite for the Scottish party in favour. Or soak

:45:46. > :45:52.the attitudes towards free personal care and university she tuition

:45:52. > :45:57.fees does not seem to be as popular as the First Minister was trying to

:45:57. > :46:01.suggest. Yes, you can see the strategy here but how far that

:46:01. > :46:11.strategy will have residents outside that hall I think we have

:46:11. > :46:42.

:46:42. > :46:50.Alex Salmond looks as if he is And he is holding up a placard, an

:46:50. > :46:57.emphasis that the campaign is really starting across Scottish

:46:57. > :47:03.independence after the Edinburgh Agreement on Monday. Photographers

:47:03. > :47:07.are taking that a picture. Professor John Curtice is with me.

:47:07. > :47:12.There is a different nature to this conference. The First Minister is

:47:12. > :47:18.going to speak. And I hate to bring this to an end! But we have got

:47:18. > :47:26.work to do. We have a referendum to win for Scotland, so let's go and

:47:26. > :47:31.do it! The choreographer he is very different. We often expect the

:47:31. > :47:37.leader to go back into the crowd and to be applauded. A we get a

:47:37. > :47:42.sense that this is the big moment of the conference. -- we get. But

:47:42. > :47:49.Alex Salmond stayed on stage and held up the yes placard. This was

:47:49. > :47:55.not the end, the cathartic moment of a conference, but the beginning

:47:55. > :47:59.of the Yes campaign. He admitted he had a realisation this was the

:47:59. > :48:06.opportunity to win independence, but they have a lot of work to do

:48:06. > :48:13.to try and succeed in securing it. The evidence suggests the campaign

:48:13. > :48:18.for the Yes argument has the work to do. Angus Robertson was saying

:48:18. > :48:25.to conference in his closing speech yesterday that they had to do this

:48:25. > :48:29.because they had a mountain to climb. Absolutely, they were all

:48:29. > :48:34.saying to the delegates, we have to try and widen the amount of people

:48:34. > :48:43.who support this and if we suggest an independent Scotland will not be

:48:43. > :48:49.in NATO, S Bull put people off. And quoting that 70% -- this will put

:48:49. > :48:55.people off. And they are quoted at 75% were against this. You might

:48:55. > :49:01.ask, most people in Perth might be against nuclear weapons, but is

:49:01. > :49:05.that true of Scottish society? Most of the polling evidence that I have

:49:05. > :49:11.found on attitudes to nuclear weapons suggests that it is not far

:49:11. > :49:15.from us being gave fifty-fifty society. For example, the attitude

:49:15. > :49:21.to the renewal of tightened. Of those people in favour of

:49:21. > :49:31.independence at the moment opposed to nuclear weapons? I do not think

:49:31. > :49:33.

:49:33. > :49:38.so. So if the SNP -- so the SNP should ask that this is -- should

:49:38. > :49:44.ask if this is central to their vision for an independent Scotland.

:49:44. > :49:52.By up to a concert hall, where the deputy -- we are back to the

:49:52. > :49:57.concert hall, when Nicola Sturgeon is joining us. That was a very

:49:57. > :50:01.interesting and to the conference speech, you on stage with the First

:50:01. > :50:11.Minister. It looks as though it is again on, and there was a different

:50:11. > :50:13.

:50:13. > :50:17.feel to this conference, with a lot to play for! -- game on. A we are

:50:17. > :50:21.ready for the referendum. We have to persuade the majority of the

:50:21. > :50:26.Scottish people we should be independent not for its own sake

:50:26. > :50:31.but because this is the route to a better, healthier and Ferre

:50:31. > :50:39.Scotland. There was a definite sense of determination and

:50:39. > :50:44.determination -- and excitement. a crucial bit of information -- a

:50:44. > :50:50.crucial bit of information that she will introduce a paving Bill to

:50:51. > :50:54.allow 16 and 17-year-olds to vote. We think that they should have the

:50:54. > :50:59.right to vote because it is the right thing to do it and not

:50:59. > :51:03.because of any calculation of party advantage. People who can get

:51:03. > :51:07.married and have children and register for the army should have a

:51:07. > :51:12.say in the future of the country, so we will introduce this bill to

:51:12. > :51:18.allow us to make the preparations that will allow that vote to be

:51:18. > :51:23.given to all 16 and 17-year-olds, assuming that is the decision of

:51:23. > :51:29.Parliament makes when we take the Referendum Bill through Parliament.

:51:29. > :51:35.I suppose this will make the vote for 16 and 17-year-olds water tight

:51:35. > :51:40.and not open to a challenge after the referendum. As think it is

:51:40. > :51:46.important that if we say -- I think it is important that we say this is

:51:46. > :51:53.an issue of principle, so votes for all 16 and 17-year-olds have to be

:51:53. > :51:57.delivered at part of that cash as part of that. We will make all the

:51:57. > :52:02.preparations to allow Parliament to make that decision, because it is

:52:02. > :52:06.up to them to decide whether or not they agree with the government and

:52:06. > :52:14.won 16 and 17-year-olds to vote. We will argue that case the very

:52:14. > :52:20.strongly. Alex Salmond also said, we contribute in Scotland 9.6% of

:52:20. > :52:26.the UK's taxation but receive a 9.3% of UK spending in return.

:52:26. > :52:33.Better Together have said we contribute 53 billion and get 63

:52:33. > :52:38.billion back. That is facile, it reflects the fact the UK is in debt,

:52:38. > :52:42.spending more than it raises. We are saying Scotland is less in debt

:52:43. > :52:46.than the rest of the UK and relatively better off. The benefit

:52:46. > :52:51.of independence is that we get control of what resources are so we

:52:51. > :52:58.can take action to get the economy growing and determine how we spend

:52:58. > :53:01.those resources. We think it is better to invest in things around

:53:01. > :53:04.early intervention, to give children the best start in life,

:53:05. > :53:11.what that -- rather than wasting money on weapons of mass

:53:11. > :53:15.destruction, which is what Westminster chooses to do. So the

:53:15. > :53:19.shortfall is met by borrowing? The Labour Party say, the things we

:53:19. > :53:23.have been Scotland's now can no longer be afforded. But the First

:53:23. > :53:28.Minister was very critical of Johann Lamont, talking about social

:53:28. > :53:30.solidarity and the things we can afford. How could we afford these

:53:30. > :53:36.things in an independent Scotland when you look at the massive

:53:36. > :53:39.borrowing short for? We afford those things now. John Swinney

:53:40. > :53:45.makes those decisions every year and has published his budget for

:53:45. > :53:50.next year, all those things are included. As the first minute us --

:53:50. > :53:55.as the First Minister said, they amount to 3% of the Scottish budget.

:53:55. > :53:59.The difference between us and playback is that we do not think

:53:59. > :54:02.giving the old person the right to free travel or the young person the

:54:02. > :54:07.right to a free education or making health care free, we do not think

:54:07. > :54:10.that is part of something for nothing called to, but those are

:54:10. > :54:16.the hallmarks of a decent society that we will fight so hard to

:54:16. > :54:21.protect. Alex Salmond was critical of what he said was the Westminster

:54:21. > :54:25.government's austerity programme and John Swinney said, austerity is

:54:25. > :54:30.made in London. But you have said country's big and small have

:54:30. > :54:36.suffered in the recession, so you cannot blame London for that!

:54:36. > :54:41.is true, but we have a government that is in large part replicating

:54:41. > :54:46.the mistakes of the previous Labour government. The austerity agenda is

:54:46. > :54:52.making it the recession worse and is not helping to get borrowing

:54:53. > :54:59.down, it is driving it up. Police say is echoed by a number of

:54:59. > :55:02.credible economists around the country is that we need to see an

:55:02. > :55:06.alternative and to see investment in the economy, particularly

:55:06. > :55:12.capital investment, because that is the way to get the economy growing,

:55:12. > :55:17.create jobs, get borrowing down. That Horwich -- the Tory agenda is

:55:17. > :55:20.not just wrong but deeply counter- productive. The first mind instance

:55:20. > :55:27.-- the First Minister said he did not want to pay the price for

:55:27. > :55:37.weapons of mass destruction. She a hypocrisy, surely, when you decided

:55:37. > :55:38.

:55:38. > :55:44.to join NATO yesterday. -- sheer. By a will say what they want to say,

:55:44. > :55:49.at but our future continuing membership of NATO will be on

:55:49. > :55:57.condition that Scotland has not play host to nuclear weapons --

:55:57. > :56:02.they will say. Our view on weapons of mass destruction will not change.

:56:02. > :56:09.This policy of joining NATO but not one to nuclear weapons does not

:56:09. > :56:14.make much sense. It makes perfect sense. The vast majority of

:56:14. > :56:20.countries there are members... Sorry. By if an American submarine

:56:20. > :56:25.arrives at Faslane, you do not know what is on board -- if. It is

:56:25. > :56:31.impossible to control. Of we will not play host to nuclear weapons,

:56:31. > :56:35.that is an issue of principle for the SNP. The vast majority of

:56:35. > :56:40.member countries are not nuclear countries and do not have nuclear

:56:40. > :56:44.weapons, so it is a policy that makes perfect sense. What was

:56:44. > :56:48.striking yesterday it is that the SNP is the only party that has the

:56:48. > :56:53.guts to debate real issues openly before the conference in the manner

:56:53. > :56:58.we did it yesterday and that is something that I am immensely proud

:56:59. > :57:01.of as a long-standing member of this party. Do you think this

:57:01. > :57:07.referendum could become a referendum on the Scottish

:57:07. > :57:15.government itself, as you enter this crucial two year period?

:57:15. > :57:19.are already five years into being a government and were elected with a

:57:20. > :57:24.massive majority, and we are still ahead in the opinion polls, so I

:57:25. > :57:28.think people's judgment on the Scottish government is thoroughly

:57:28. > :57:34.good. People will have the opportunity to choose in two ears

:57:34. > :57:37.if they want the opportunity to make the country Independent and if

:57:37. > :57:41.they believed the decisions about Scotland are best taken by the

:57:41. > :57:45.people who live and work here, that is the proposition that we will put

:57:45. > :57:49.to the Scottish people and we look forward to arguing that and winning

:57:49. > :57:55.back in two years' time. Thank you for rushing out of the conference

:57:55. > :57:59.hall to speak to us! As we have been hearing, the SNP voted to

:57:59. > :58:05.change its defence policy to support membership of NATO,

:58:05. > :58:11.abandoning its policy to not be part of the military alliance.

:58:11. > :58:16.Scotland will have to stay nuclear weapon Free. But they were accused

:58:16. > :58:21.of hypocrisy in an impassioned debate. Our political correspondent

:58:21. > :58:25.was watching. The modern SNP, two principal

:58:25. > :58:30.policies can make yester independence and note to nuclear

:58:30. > :58:34.weapons. This is DNA level stuff. Little wonder a debate about

:58:34. > :58:41.whether an independent Scotland should be a member of the NATO

:58:41. > :58:48.nuclear alliance provoked such passionate politics. Just outside

:58:48. > :58:52.the conference is a very vocal reminder for the SNP. But Alex

:58:52. > :58:57.Salmond hopes to convince those inside the hall and the majority of

:58:57. > :59:01.Scotland that his party has a credible defence policy for an

:59:01. > :59:06.independent Scotland. The hall was packed and the leadership had

:59:06. > :59:10.picked this fight, could they win? This defence policy send an

:59:10. > :59:16.important message to people in Scotland and friends, neighbours

:59:16. > :59:20.and allies. We are preparing for the referendum and for an

:59:20. > :59:28.independent Scotland with a defence policy best for Scotland. With

:59:28. > :59:34.strong opposition. Weaver owed to join NATO and you warm -- if you

:59:34. > :59:43.vote her to join NATO, you will not get rid of Trident. -- if you vote

:59:43. > :59:49.to join. If you vote to join NATO, there will be pressure not to be

:59:49. > :59:53.involved in CND, not to support causes like Palestine around the

:59:53. > :00:00.globe at. I strongly resent the paraphrasing of this debate that,

:00:00. > :00:04.if you are either on board with NATO or you -- or you are an

:00:04. > :00:07.isolationist. It is inconceivable that a small country on the north-

:00:07. > :00:14.west continent would not co-operate with immediate neighbours in the

:00:14. > :00:24.British Isles and elsewhere. The idea the only radar systems are

:00:24. > :00:34.

:00:34. > :00:39.This summer I was called a rebel for supporting party policy. I

:00:39. > :00:46.don't know how many of you heard Good morning Scotland this morning

:00:46. > :00:53.but Angus Robertson described NATO as a sound organisation. We would

:00:53. > :00:58.have to ask ourselves why have we not endorse that sound organisation

:00:58. > :01:03.for 30 years? It is not enough to say that you believe in

:01:03. > :01:08.independence and then say that you want to belong to NATO. As far as I

:01:08. > :01:12.am concerned, it is Chris -- it is hypocritical to say we want to have

:01:12. > :01:21.nuclear weapons and we want to belong to NATO. How dare we say

:01:21. > :01:31.that! He we are in Scotland and we do want Trident and week don't want

:01:31. > :01:33.

:01:33. > :01:38.nuclear weapons but we want to belong to that club. It was time

:01:38. > :01:41.for some leadership reinforcements. Kenny MacAskill, former party rebel

:01:41. > :01:48.and current Justice Secretary ascended the stage to tell

:01:48. > :01:58.delegates it was time to make some painful choices. I am no US poster

:01:58. > :02:03.

:02:03. > :02:06.boy. I am certainly no US lap dog, as probably there are still a few

:02:07. > :02:16.senators hunting me. We have moved on from being a party of protest to

:02:17. > :02:20.

:02:20. > :02:24.a party of power. We are not here accident, but by design. We got a

:02:24. > :02:30.toehold in 2007 and we built upon it with a majority in 2011 but we

:02:30. > :02:40.are not there yet. We have got to win the biggest vote of all in 2014.

:02:40. > :02:40.

:02:40. > :02:46.That is why, that is why, I have marched for CND, I have protested

:02:46. > :02:51.against Trident, I demonstrated against the Iraq war and I am tired

:02:51. > :03:00.of marching. I want a seat for our government in the situations of

:03:00. > :03:03.power. I want our First Minister to enshrined the constitution of an

:03:03. > :03:08.independent Scotland with a declaration that we will be nuclear

:03:08. > :03:12.free. I want to make sure that we will send representatives to the

:03:12. > :03:19.United Nations that will say a war is not in our name. I want to make

:03:19. > :03:24.sure that we are there and I want to make sure that we win in 2014.

:03:24. > :03:32.When votes were finally tallied, it was close, perhaps too close for

:03:32. > :03:36.leadership comfort. The SNP is now a pro NATO party. An absolutely

:03:36. > :03:40.fascinating debate there. John Curtice is still with me in the

:03:40. > :03:44.studio. That was quite something yesterday, quite unusual to see

:03:44. > :03:50.that at a party conference. It is becoming increasingly unusual,

:03:50. > :03:56.certainly both the Labour parties and the Conservative Party have

:03:56. > :03:58.very little in the way of open policy debate. The Liberal

:03:58. > :04:02.Democrats still try at least you have policy votes in their

:04:03. > :04:07.conference and the leadership was defeated on a couple of occasions

:04:07. > :04:11.even on a quite important than about secret courts during the

:04:11. > :04:16.court -- course of their conference. It is very interesting for a party

:04:16. > :04:20.that has been in power for five years. The SNP have long had a

:04:20. > :04:24.democratic tradition of one delegate, one vote, things been

:04:24. > :04:28.decided ultimately by conference and you saw that fully on display

:04:28. > :04:33.yesterday. There is no doubt it was a very impassioned debate with some

:04:33. > :04:37.extremely effective speeches on both sides of the there are -- of

:04:37. > :04:42.the debate. The most interesting thing will be to see how far down

:04:42. > :04:46.the track what their opponents make of this. It is worth being aware

:04:46. > :04:50.that in order to win that debate those who were in favour of NATO

:04:50. > :04:57.had very, very firmly to promise that Scotland's decision to join

:04:57. > :05:02.NATO would be conditional on it being a nuclear free country.

:05:02. > :05:06.Clearly one possibility is, over the next few weeks or so, they are

:05:06. > :05:11.the side will find some defence experts and retired generals that

:05:11. > :05:15.say that actually NATO is unlikely to accept that condition and so

:05:15. > :05:19.therefore you are still not actually bought into that club. It

:05:19. > :05:24.is a not necessarily an issue on which the SNP will have closed down

:05:24. > :05:28.quite as fully as the leadership might have hoped. Thank you very

:05:28. > :05:32.much for that. We will continue the debate right now because Brian

:05:32. > :05:36.Taylor is standing by in the concert hall. That is right. In the

:05:36. > :05:43.foyer of the concert hall, an incredibly noisy foyer, all the

:05:43. > :05:47.delegates have come out, having heard Alex Salmond yesterday. --

:05:47. > :05:53.having heard Alex Salmond's speech. Yesterday the noise was inside the

:05:53. > :05:59.hall. I am joined by two people who spoke vigorously. Thank you for

:05:59. > :06:02.joining us. John Swinney, you won the argument, by God it was tight.

:06:02. > :06:06.It was tied. I think it reflects the fact they are strongly held

:06:06. > :06:09.views within the party by all members on this debate. I think

:06:09. > :06:13.what was a credit to the party yesterday was the fact that the

:06:13. > :06:18.debate was handled in an entirely open and transparent fashion, with

:06:18. > :06:23.lots of time allocated, and everybody got their say. It was of

:06:23. > :06:27.the highest quality of debate and in our supreme governing body we

:06:27. > :06:32.came to our conclusion. Everyone who took part in the debate was a

:06:32. > :06:34.credit to their arguments and to the party. You were using arguments

:06:34. > :06:38.and the principle of the Corporation of the nation's budget

:06:38. > :06:43.were also used in very strong pragmatic arguments saying, if you

:06:43. > :06:46.don't vote for this nature -- NATO decision it will annoy the

:06:46. > :06:51.electorate and it will lessen the chances of winning the referendum.

:06:51. > :06:57.My argument was founded on two important points. One is that we

:06:57. > :07:00.have an important obligation to put in place the correct defence

:07:00. > :07:04.arrangements for Our country and to support our neighbours. Secondly we

:07:04. > :07:07.have to put in place the most compelling arguments that can win

:07:07. > :07:12.us the referendum on independence. The journey that we have completed

:07:12. > :07:16.as a party on this question is one that I think reflects the

:07:16. > :07:22.importance of defence corporation, a principle which established in

:07:22. > :07:26.2002 and one has been taken further by the decision yesterday. Sandra

:07:26. > :07:31.White, you lost the argument very narrowly. Is that the end of it in

:07:31. > :07:41.your view or do you still try to bring a party policy back to where

:07:41. > :07:41.

:07:41. > :07:48.it was? There is a democratic right of the people in the path -- at the

:07:48. > :07:53.conference. What we are looking for his guarantees to give us some

:07:54. > :07:59.evidence that they have come to an arrangement with NATO which will

:07:59. > :08:03.guarantee that if we are in NATO that Trident will be removed.

:08:03. > :08:09.are sceptical about that. You think that once you are in NATO that they

:08:09. > :08:14.will not allow that. Yes, I have concerns regarding that. Eight is

:08:14. > :08:18.something I will raise within the party and raised with others. It is

:08:18. > :08:22.a democratic party and we have a right to do so. He also said that

:08:22. > :08:32.Angus Robertson rates than argument that 75% of Scots in favour of NATO

:08:32. > :08:40.and you have not met any. I have now! I just want to know where that

:08:40. > :08:47.figure came from. I would like to find out about that. What about

:08:47. > :08:51.those points? That NATO will not deal? I think the point that I was

:08:51. > :08:56.made in relation to this argument is that the resolution is

:08:56. > :09:00.conditional, the party's support for NATO membership is conditional

:09:00. > :09:04.on two important points, firstly that nuclear weapons are removed

:09:04. > :09:07.from Scottish soil and water as an for me, that is an absolute and I

:09:07. > :09:11.will not compromise on that point. The second argument is that we

:09:11. > :09:15.would retain our right to only support any military actions that

:09:15. > :09:21.were sanctioned by the United Nations. That has been an utterly

:09:21. > :09:24.found in part of the party's founding -- party policy for time

:09:24. > :09:29.immemorial. That is why we have not been supportive of military

:09:29. > :09:34.interventions in the past, because the United Nations have been

:09:34. > :09:39.bypassed. He's absolutely fundamental. I am very on board and

:09:39. > :09:43.he thoroughly on board and he has basically repeated what I had said.

:09:43. > :09:46.If the resolution is passed with these conditions then I want the

:09:46. > :09:51.reassurance is about these conditions and I will raise the

:09:51. > :09:54.National Council or wherever. That is what I am looking for

:09:54. > :09:58.reassurance. You suggested yesterday it was hypocritical to be

:09:58. > :10:05.sheltering under the NATO umbrella while opposing Trident, do you

:10:05. > :10:08.still adhere to that view? Yes I do. I don't like the language of

:10:08. > :10:13.hypocrisy the traded around the conference hall on whichever side

:10:13. > :10:19.of the argument that it was put forward on both sides. If we look

:10:19. > :10:24.at the previous party position, one that Sondra supported, a

:10:24. > :10:28.Partnership for Peace organisation is Associate members of NATO. In my

:10:28. > :10:33.view this is in the same space and the same area of activity and what

:10:33. > :10:39.we have done is we have essentially confirmed that we accept the need

:10:39. > :10:42.for defence corporation with NATO, we accept it implicitly with a

:10:42. > :10:46.partnership for peace in our previous position and we have taken

:10:46. > :10:49.it a stage further. We have made it clear that that is utterly

:10:49. > :10:52.conditional on the removal of nuclear weapons and conditional on

:10:52. > :10:57.any support for military in for a mention this action by the United

:10:57. > :11:01.Nations. On the issue of popularity, John, Kenny MacAskill, many others,

:11:01. > :11:05.yesterday said that the changed policy will be popular with the

:11:05. > :11:11.electorate, do you think to the contrary that it will cost votes?

:11:11. > :11:17.think it possibly could cost votes. Perhaps Scotland is different from

:11:17. > :11:20.other areas but we have to tested. We are at the left of some

:11:20. > :11:25.political parties because of the latest of that we had so I think it

:11:25. > :11:30.could cost rates. Or a different topic, while I have you here, Alex

:11:30. > :11:36.Salmond referred in his speech tonight when 6% of taxation

:11:36. > :11:41.provided by Scotland but only a small percentage of revenue. Those

:11:41. > :11:45.figures in cash terms are different and there is a huge deficit of �10

:11:45. > :11:48.billion. By the figures we spent more than we raised. The United

:11:48. > :11:53.Kingdom spends more than it raises because we are in the total

:11:53. > :11:58.financial govern created by the Labour party and made worse than at

:11:58. > :12:01.the but -- by the Coalition. An independent Scotland would not

:12:01. > :12:11.uniquely have a deficit. The United Kingdom is running up a colossal

:12:11. > :12:12.

:12:12. > :12:17.deficit and what independence is about, what I'm saying, there. Her

:12:17. > :12:21.making is that we have an opportunity to get Scotland onto

:12:21. > :12:25.the agenda for growth if we utilise the resources and the assets of

:12:25. > :12:29.Scotland to invest in our country. That is what the argument is about.

:12:29. > :12:33.You rely on growth to narrow the gap? It relies on growth to make

:12:33. > :12:37.the economy stronger. What about a giveaway of �500 per person when

:12:37. > :12:42.you why in the red? Or the First Minister was talking about was how

:12:42. > :12:47.we handle the relative strength of our financial position to invest in

:12:47. > :12:50.the country, ensure that we create growth... It has always been the

:12:50. > :12:54.argument. The crucial point is that Scotland is an economic least

:12:54. > :12:58.strong country, we can build on that to create better prospects for

:12:58. > :13:02.the economy, ensure we take children out of poverty, devour all

:13:02. > :13:05.the people the security they need in their secured -- Society and

:13:05. > :13:12.make an climate of gypsy for young people and make Scotland a more

:13:12. > :13:19.prosperous country. Thank you very much for that discussion.

:13:19. > :13:23.Let us hear more about the big speech yesterday. He asked the John

:13:23. > :13:28.-- he asked George Osborne to change his direction. John Swinney

:13:28. > :13:35.also used his party addressed to promote support for workers at

:13:35. > :13:39.Halls of Broxbourne where there is expected loss of 7,000 jobs in

:13:39. > :13:41.tough economic times. Right now we face the unprecedented

:13:42. > :13:46.economic challenges of this recession without the powers that

:13:46. > :13:50.other countries have at their disposal. Last week the IMF

:13:50. > :13:55.downgraded their predictions for UK economic growth. They warned of the

:13:55. > :13:59.consequences for the UK economy of continued austerity. The

:13:59. > :14:03.Chancellor's mistakes are laid bare for to see, the lack of a coherent

:14:04. > :14:09.economic plan, the front loading of cuts when the economy was most

:14:09. > :14:19.fragile and crucially the decision to it shift the burden of cuts on

:14:19. > :14:19.

:14:19. > :14:24.to capital investment. Everyone is now calling for a Plan B. We have

:14:24. > :14:27.consistently argued for an approach that puts capital investment at the

:14:27. > :14:32.heart of the solution. What makes this situation truly tragic is that

:14:32. > :14:36.the Chancellor's actions are in themselves self-defeating. The lack

:14:36. > :14:41.of growth means that far from cutting the deficit, the UK

:14:41. > :14:47.Government's own prediction is of an extra �158 billion of borrowing

:14:47. > :14:55.over the next five years, just to pay the cost of economic failure.

:14:55. > :15:02.That will give rise to even more London cuts in 2015 or 2016 or 2017.

:15:02. > :15:05.The status quo means that seven consecutive years of cuts and

:15:05. > :15:09.counting. Today I call on George Osborne to end his obsession with

:15:09. > :15:13.austerity. He should use the autumn Budget statement to change

:15:13. > :15:17.direction. It is time he listened and it is time he learned. If he

:15:17. > :15:27.weren't, it is time he left it to last, to Scotland, to shake a

:15:27. > :15:36.

:15:36. > :15:40.better a comic future for our We are focused on helping Scotland

:15:40. > :15:45.it through the recession. We will not stand by while people are

:15:45. > :15:50.suffering. The economic challenge is serious and we face it every day,

:15:50. > :15:54.looking at what we are doing and what more can be done. In recent

:15:54. > :15:59.weeks, we have looked at the problems of the economy harshly as

:15:59. > :16:02.we have fought alongside others to provide a viable future for fellow-

:16:02. > :16:10.citizens employed at Halls of Broxbourne. We have worked to find

:16:10. > :16:15.a way forward, ensuring that people working at Halls of Broxbourne are

:16:15. > :16:20.supported will be our priority. So let me say clearly today we stand

:16:20. > :16:25.firmly with the communities of West Lothian and will support economic

:16:25. > :16:35.recovery from this body blow to the local economy. Conference, even

:16:35. > :16:37.

:16:37. > :16:41.while we face setbacks, even while we struggle in the Strait jacket of

:16:41. > :16:46.London's cut, we are making Scotland a more attractive place in

:16:46. > :16:50.which to invest. The Ernst and Young survey of the most attractive

:16:50. > :16:55.places for foreign investment in the UK was published again this

:16:55. > :16:59.summer and it shows the difference your government is making. For the

:16:59. > :17:05.second year running, Scotland outperformed every other part of

:17:05. > :17:10.the United Kingdom, including London. Amazon, Samsung, business

:17:10. > :17:14.is voting with their feet and their wallets and choosing to invest in

:17:14. > :17:19.Scotland. The alternative to Scotland flourishing as an

:17:19. > :17:25.Independence Cup -- as an independent country is for all to

:17:25. > :17:29.see no Westminster's record of management. The problems we face

:17:29. > :17:33.are a result of the failed management of the last government

:17:33. > :17:39.and the current coalition. Between Labour and the Tories, the double-

:17:39. > :17:44.dip recession has made in London stamped all over it. What we want

:17:44. > :17:49.in Scotland is the opportunity to create our recovery, made in

:17:49. > :17:54.Scotland, with the powers of an independent country to bring it

:17:54. > :17:58.about. There is a clear choice in 2014. The alternative to Scotland

:17:58. > :18:01.flourishing as an independent country, in charge of our own

:18:01. > :18:07.resources and decision-making, is to see the achievements of the

:18:07. > :18:13.Scottish Parliament rolled back. We know what Tory rule looks like, cut,

:18:13. > :18:17.cut and more cuts. Now Labour have put their cards on the table.

:18:17. > :18:22.Johann Lamont has lined up with George Osborne and David Cameron

:18:22. > :18:26.and she has gone further. Everything is on the table, is what

:18:26. > :18:32.the chairman of the cuts Commission has said, that is the brief they

:18:32. > :18:37.have been given. Three personal care, education based on the

:18:37. > :18:44.ability to learn and not to pay, the NHS free at the point of need,

:18:44. > :18:52.under threat. The extra 1,000 police on Scotland's streets even,

:18:52. > :19:01.even the Tories do not go that far! The Labour Party is now sitting to

:19:01. > :19:10.the right of the Tory party in Scotland. By Ian Taylor was

:19:10. > :19:15.listening to that, it is quite a concerted attack on the speech a

:19:15. > :19:22.few weekends -- a few weeks ago from Johann Lamont -- Brian Taylor.

:19:22. > :19:28.They are trying to conflate the Conservatives and the Labour Party

:19:28. > :19:33.together, suggesting the anti- independence position is led by the

:19:33. > :19:42.Conservatives and supported by Labour, contrasting it the SNP and

:19:42. > :19:46.the Tories. I have a party activist and financial journalist with me,

:19:46. > :19:51.at George Kerevan. What about conflating the Conservatives and

:19:51. > :19:56.Labour, is that realistic? They have Derek -- they have different

:19:56. > :20:00.visions of the economy. It is a very strange marriage because the

:20:00. > :20:05.Labour Party and the Conservative Party have different agendas.

:20:05. > :20:10.Labour are calling for growth and the Tories for austerity, so how

:20:10. > :20:16.they can say they can be better together... Up Alex Salmond

:20:16. > :20:20.suggesting that the social welfare gains are under threat and can only

:20:20. > :20:28.be entrenched by independence, is that true? War was interesting

:20:28. > :20:32.about the speech was his was that it is the first time the campaign

:20:32. > :20:37.has been given intellectual coherence -- what was interesting.

:20:37. > :20:42.The majority for change was an interesting phrase. We know there

:20:42. > :20:47.was a majority in the last referendum. I think he wants to put

:20:47. > :20:53.back coalition back together again and he is saying, you voted for

:20:53. > :20:58.devolution in 1997 and for social change and fairness, you have got

:20:58. > :21:03.changes, at that is now under threat. So if you want to keep the

:21:03. > :21:08.gains of devolution, you have to vote for independence. But why do

:21:08. > :21:12.you have to vote for independence to retain those? If you are a

:21:12. > :21:18.devolved government, that could be done with devolution. Three

:21:18. > :21:27.personal care and freak university education is being kept. John

:21:27. > :21:34.Swinney has done wonders in making savings so he can move that forward.

:21:34. > :21:40.But we are now entering a major phase of austerity. This has

:21:40. > :21:44.happened since 2010, there have been tax rises. Over the next five

:21:44. > :21:51.years, we will see major, major cuts in public spending and that

:21:51. > :21:55.will come through to Holyrood. What everybody here is saying is that

:21:55. > :21:59.the way the austerity agenda has worked in places like cat alone

:21:59. > :22:04.higher -- in Catalonia, at last year, at the majority were not in

:22:04. > :22:08.favour of independence, but this year, you have a majority for

:22:08. > :22:13.independence in Catalonia. I think Alex Salmond is hoping the same

:22:13. > :22:17.will happen here. Scottish unemployment is now rising in the

:22:18. > :22:21.last set of figures. Opponents would say that Alex Salmond took

:22:21. > :22:27.the credit when Scottish unemployment was low, does he had

:22:27. > :22:33.to take the blame now it is higher? We have done well in Scotland in

:22:33. > :22:37.terms of keeping unemployment from where it should have been by a

:22:37. > :22:41.shifting money into the capital expenditure, which has kept

:22:41. > :22:47.unemployment low ebb and it would have been. In England, at there is

:22:47. > :22:51.a shift into part-time employment. -- there is. A lot of people

:22:51. > :22:59.shifting into part-time employment. That is why those figures indicate

:22:59. > :23:01.a swing. Over the next 18 months, you will see the boost into the

:23:02. > :23:06.construction industry that will transform the Scottish Labour

:23:06. > :23:14.market. And only a year ago, Alex Salmond set, Scotland is the only

:23:14. > :23:19.place in these islands where unemployment is falling -- said. He

:23:19. > :23:23.was taking the credit for low unemployment. We can spend a lot of

:23:23. > :23:30.time on the figures. But the proportion of people in the labour

:23:30. > :23:36.market in work is high here. More people are in the labour market as

:23:36. > :23:41.they are in the UK. You are comparing unemployment against a

:23:41. > :23:47.different scale of people in jobs. The economic will obviously be

:23:47. > :23:53.crucial, is it enough to say that the gap that Scotland has is less

:23:53. > :24:00.severe than in England, the deficit, and it can be addressed by growth?

:24:00. > :24:06.It will come down to not looking back... But this is the real issue,

:24:06. > :24:11.it is a growth agenda. The real argument for independence is higher

:24:11. > :24:16.growth. It is a growth agenda under independence against an austerity

:24:16. > :24:21.agenda under the union. What lay back and the Tories lining up for

:24:21. > :24:29.austerity, -- with Labour and the Tories lining up for austerity, it

:24:29. > :24:33.is a no-brainer! I am off to polish my anorak, back to the studios.

:24:33. > :24:39.Opponents of plans to introduce same-sex plans have asked ministers

:24:39. > :24:43.to think again. Some critics, including prominent SNP members,

:24:43. > :24:47.have questioned the legality -- have questioned the legality of the

:24:47. > :24:51.proposals and have said they could threaten independence. The concerns

:24:52. > :24:56.were raised at a meeting on Thursday.

:24:56. > :24:59.This Scottish government may have decided to go ahead with a bill to

:24:59. > :25:04.introduce gay marriage, but opponents are clearly not giving up

:25:04. > :25:11.and they are concerned about what they see as the erosion of marriage.

:25:11. > :25:18.This fringe meeting took place. Once a thing of the government has

:25:18. > :25:22.forgotten is that they can analyse it and prove certain things -- one

:25:22. > :25:32.think. And so the public are in favour art of same-sex marriage.

:25:32. > :25:33.

:25:33. > :25:38.But the electorate found that they voted in good faith and it was

:25:38. > :25:44.ignored. And it is the fact it was ignored at made the consultation

:25:44. > :25:52.process a fraud, -- that made the consultation process a fraud, and

:25:52. > :25:58.that angers many people! It has not been a fair fight, has it? And if

:25:58. > :26:04.we are not satisfied with that, they are now using a blackmailing

:26:04. > :26:10.tactics. You are a bigot, a home of road, you are looking at the

:26:10. > :26:17.liberal trends in society. To a mason questioned whether gay

:26:17. > :26:21.marriage can ever work -- John maids -- John Mason. I question

:26:21. > :26:27.whether Westminster is able or willing to amend that Equality Act

:26:27. > :26:31.to provide that protection. There is legal opinion as well at

:26:31. > :26:34.Westminster cannot provide that protection and legislation from

:26:34. > :26:39.Westminster would still leave churches and others subject to

:26:39. > :26:46.legal challenge. So Scotland's mainstream churches opposed the

:26:46. > :26:51.measures -- Scotland's. This man says gay marriage is just wrong.

:26:51. > :26:56.are all for equality and fairness and freedom, but those of balancing

:26:56. > :27:01.principles. It becomes a tyranny if you make one principle crushed

:27:01. > :27:05.others. To you hundred people attended the meeting in Perth and

:27:05. > :27:12.many spoke out against marriage -- gay marriage, but not all of them -

:27:12. > :27:17.- 200 people. I do not like to see us opposing Ness on the grounds

:27:17. > :27:22.people are against it, it should be on the grounds that it is simply

:27:22. > :27:27.wrong, even if everybody says it. Right remains right even if nobody

:27:27. > :27:32.says it. When all the political parties are driving through same-

:27:32. > :27:37.sex marriage, despite the overwhelming number of people in

:27:37. > :27:44.the community saying they are opposed to it, you disenfranchise

:27:44. > :27:50.them from voting anyone. By grew up in fear, the fear -- I grew up in

:27:50. > :27:57.fear because I am a gay man. For a fee of my job, that I would be

:27:57. > :28:01.sacked, and I would have been. -- a fear of my job. And now what we are

:28:01. > :28:08.looking for in a society that has progressed and where we have it

:28:08. > :28:12.freedom that others want, we want to progress that on the simple

:28:12. > :28:17.basis that an individual has a right to love a person and to

:28:17. > :28:22.settle with them in a contract recognised by the state.

:28:22. > :28:27.Scottish ministers insist no church would be forced to conduct same-sex

:28:27. > :28:32.marriages if they do not want to -- the Scottish ministers. The SNP

:28:32. > :28:41.issued a warning for both sides to keep their language Wisbech fork.

:28:41. > :28:46.Back to the conference in Perth now, where some guests are worth our

:28:46. > :28:50.reporter, at Brian Taylor. We have the chair of the fringe meeting

:28:50. > :28:56.here. John Mason, what is your objection to same-sex marriage

:28:56. > :28:59.fundamentally? I am not objecting to it but my main concern is that

:28:59. > :29:04.the churches and those who do object should not be forced to take

:29:04. > :29:08.part, and that is a genuine fear among the church and other

:29:08. > :29:13.religious communities that they could be forced to. Have assurances

:29:13. > :29:18.not been given that will not be the case, by the First Minister and not

:29:18. > :29:21.least? They have said they need help from Westminster to deliver at

:29:21. > :29:27.protection but legal advice says Westminster cannot provide that

:29:27. > :29:31.protection and when we go to the European Court of Human Rights,

:29:31. > :29:35.denominations could be challenged in court. What about that?

:29:35. > :29:40.religious body will be it required to provide same-sex marriages but

:29:40. > :29:46.those that want to like the Quakers, the quality areas, at they will be

:29:46. > :29:51.able to. But this is an historic policy for the SNP, they are

:29:52. > :29:58.finally providing full equality for same-sex couples in Scotland.

:29:58. > :30:02.say there will not be challenges, but there is perhaps one couples

:30:02. > :30:08.seeking a test case trying to get a marriage in their church, to

:30:08. > :30:12.challenge the judge. There were or is there to change that, the

:30:12. > :30:17.European Convention of Human Rights is very clear. And let's remember,

:30:17. > :30:22.at no country around the world forces churches to conduct same-sex

:30:22. > :30:27.marriages. But almost every country surrounding Scotland already has a

:30:28. > :30:37.same-sex marriage. Some say that a civil partnerships already come up

:30:38. > :30:50.

:30:50. > :30:54.why do you need the sanction of I want equality and what -- and

:30:54. > :30:59.that can't be done in many ways. I am happy to accept that the words

:30:59. > :31:02.are important but I do not accept there is no legal riskiness. The

:31:02. > :31:06.churches at the moment are protected about religious things

:31:06. > :31:09.but this is about doing a public service because marriage is partly

:31:09. > :31:12.in the public domain and that is where it becomes risky for the

:31:12. > :31:19.churches because if they are carrying out a public service, they

:31:19. > :31:23.could be at risk. One man said he thought this policy was neglecting

:31:23. > :31:27.public opinion and was therefore akin to fascism, driving through a

:31:27. > :31:31.change against the will of the people, would you adopt that tone?

:31:31. > :31:35.Are I don't like that tone. We can have this debate and hopefully we

:31:35. > :31:40.can have this debate in a reasonable way, using reasonable

:31:40. > :31:43.language. A lot of people are doing up. The reality is there are a

:31:43. > :31:47.minority very keen on this but a bigger minority very much against

:31:47. > :31:50.him but the majority of the public don't have strong feelings. Would

:31:51. > :31:54.you prefer the Scottish government drop this policy? I think they may

:31:54. > :31:58.not be able to take it forward because if Westminster cannot

:31:58. > :32:04.deliver then they may not be able to do with. In mind of the possible

:32:04. > :32:07.to go ahead? I don't think that is true. Many of -- et many MSPs have

:32:07. > :32:11.said they will vote for this and the government have said they will

:32:11. > :32:15.come forward this year. We know the majority of SNP members will have

:32:15. > :32:19.come up to us this weekend and the majority of the public support the

:32:19. > :32:23.move. I hope it will happen. I know it is not your concern that it has

:32:23. > :32:26.to be the concern of the SNP, all of their minds on the referendum

:32:27. > :32:30.but do you think this policy helps or hinders that case? Let us

:32:30. > :32:34.remember that people across all of the political parties, all the

:32:34. > :32:40.party leaders, with a pro- independence or pro union support

:32:40. > :32:43.equality for same-sex couples. I do not think it will change any votes.

:32:43. > :32:47.Two thirds of the public support same-sex marriage but if the

:32:47. > :32:50.government do not do it that we have an effect. It depends what

:32:50. > :32:54.question you ask the public. You can get a majority of the public

:32:54. > :32:58.who are against it so it depends how you would it. I think the

:32:58. > :33:03.majority of the public do not have strong views about it. The

:33:03. > :33:06.parliament is more secular than the public as a whole. Thank you very

:33:06. > :33:11.much. Back to the studio. Thank you very much.

:33:11. > :33:14.Professor John Curtice is still with me here in the studio. Do you

:33:14. > :33:17.think this could harm the Independent's argument? Do you

:33:17. > :33:21.think people out there might be put off by the Scottish government's

:33:21. > :33:25.proposals? It is going to be very difficult to construct the argument

:33:25. > :33:29.because it will not be the case that anyone can point to the UK

:33:29. > :33:32.Government and say that the UK Government is against same-sex

:33:32. > :33:36.marriage so if we stay in the Union we will not have it because the

:33:37. > :33:39.truth is there are already parallel moves being made by the UK

:33:39. > :33:44.Government to change the law in England and Wales to introduce

:33:44. > :33:47.same-sex marriage south of the border as well. There is a

:33:47. > :33:50.difference in that at the moment the UK Government for England and

:33:50. > :33:57.Wales is only proposing to introduce same-sex civil marriage

:33:57. > :34:00.which would not allow the Quakers or other religions to hold a

:34:01. > :34:04.marriages. What their government has currently done allows them to

:34:04. > :34:09.hold civil partnership ceremonies which were previously outlawed. The

:34:09. > :34:12.particular issue of whether or not to the churches are vulnerable to

:34:12. > :34:16.the fact that the Scottish government is proposing to allow

:34:16. > :34:21.religious organisations to conduct marriages, not for it just to be a

:34:21. > :34:25.civil ceremony, that particular aspect is different in Scotland and

:34:25. > :34:29.Wales but broadly speaking if Scotland remains in the union,

:34:29. > :34:33.same-sex marriage of some kind or other is going to be introduced

:34:33. > :34:37.anyway. Let us expand the issue of independence a bit further. You

:34:37. > :34:42.wanted to pick up on a point that we were hearing from George Kerevan.

:34:42. > :34:45.He was making the point when Brian was asking about independence and

:34:46. > :34:50.the universal benefits that we receive, do we need to be

:34:50. > :34:54.independent to carry on receiving them? We have heard a lot to date

:34:54. > :34:57.from Alex Salmond and John Swinney yesterday in the clips. We have

:34:57. > :35:01.heard them telling us about the austerity that Scotland is

:35:01. > :35:05.currently suffering as a result of the UK's government stance about

:35:05. > :35:10.getting the deficit down and also pointing out, as we have heard many

:35:10. > :35:15.times, that's gone on's share of the public service death -- public

:35:15. > :35:21.sector deficit is less although our finances are still in substantial

:35:21. > :35:25.deficit. What they are trying to say to us is that if we become

:35:25. > :35:29.independent Scotland can achieve the growth that might enable us to

:35:29. > :35:33.escape from the austerity that we are currently suffering from London.

:35:33. > :35:39.The truth is that if the SNP are going to pursue that argument they

:35:39. > :35:43.have to put more flesh on the bones. In a sense we need to hear from

:35:44. > :35:48.them some sense of what the budget of an independent Scottish

:35:48. > :35:53.government would look like now if Scotland were to be independent. In

:35:53. > :35:59.his speech today Alex Salmond said that we are not so constrained as

:35:59. > :36:03.the UK, our share of the deficit is less so we could invest more, we

:36:03. > :36:08.could spend more on services such as free public services, all we

:36:08. > :36:13.could borrow less. Well, you certainly can't do all three of

:36:13. > :36:17.those. At the moment the SNP are going to have to, much more clearly

:36:17. > :36:21.with if there is this advantage, how will it be used and to be able

:36:21. > :36:26.to persuade people that whatever difference starts they come up with

:36:26. > :36:29.Woods still defended the services effectively and achieve the growth

:36:29. > :36:32.that they think Scotland needs. Thank you very much. Alex Salmond

:36:32. > :36:36.received his normal standing ovation at the end of his speech so

:36:36. > :36:40.let us go back to the hall and he have it went down some of the

:36:40. > :36:46.delegates. I am joined by the National convenor of SNP youth and

:36:46. > :36:51.a former SNP MSP. Good afternoon. Thank you very much for joining me.

:36:52. > :36:55.Firstly it was interesting to here Alex Salmond holding up the yes

:36:55. > :37:00.poster. This is a very crucial moment for you in the party's

:37:00. > :37:03.history but it looks like you have a mountain to climb. Not at all. We

:37:03. > :37:07.have two years to have a fantastic campaign which I am incredibly

:37:07. > :37:12.excited about. It is an opportunity to go out and sell out essential

:37:12. > :37:15.message that it is fundamentally better to have discussions about

:37:15. > :37:18.Scotland in Scotland and no one cares more about Scotland and the

:37:18. > :37:23.people living and working and they should make the decisions about the

:37:23. > :37:28.country. Surely looking at the opinion polls, some this week have

:37:28. > :37:33.suggested that only 30% of people support independence. David is very

:37:33. > :37:39.optimistic, do you share his optimism? You must be pretty

:37:39. > :37:43.optimistic to get up to the 50% that you must get up to? What the

:37:43. > :37:47.headlines don't actually show you is that 64% of the people actually

:37:47. > :37:51.believe that the Scottish government is doing a better job

:37:51. > :37:55.than Westminster and they are in the right place to make decisions.

:37:55. > :37:59.You look at other opinion polls and you look at the Social attitudes

:37:59. > :38:03.survey, people are interested and keen to vote on independence if

:38:03. > :38:07.they feel that Scotland will be better off. As part of the Yes

:38:07. > :38:11.Scotland campaign that I am now in, I am very pleased we have two years

:38:11. > :38:15.to present our information and show that. Scotland has a choice coming

:38:15. > :38:19.up in 2014 and it can either continue on a journey as we are now,

:38:19. > :38:23.with one of the most unequal societies in the developed world

:38:23. > :38:27.all we can look to do start -- we can look to start a new journey to

:38:27. > :38:32.Independence. When you ask people about how they want Scotland to be

:38:32. > :38:36.in 20 years' time, they don't imagine an unequalled -- an unequal

:38:36. > :38:42.society. They want to see people improved and that is true

:38:42. > :38:51.independence. David, and in crucial part of the argument is about the

:38:51. > :38:57.economy. Alex Salmond was pointing out the figures and their and it

:38:57. > :39:01.turns out the shortfall is made up in borrowing, how would an SNP

:39:01. > :39:05.government after independence construct the Scottish budget when,

:39:05. > :39:12.in fact, we need to borrow so much, and when Alex Salmond kept saying

:39:12. > :39:17.that he wants to pay for the social solidarity? I think firstly the air

:39:17. > :39:22.tuts that the Labour Party have made have been an absolute car

:39:22. > :39:26.crash. Eight you go round the streets in Glasgow and tell

:39:26. > :39:31.pensioners that their boss passes will be taken away, let them try.

:39:31. > :39:34.There is not a huge and an appetite for that to come back. When it

:39:34. > :39:38.comes to the economy it is very important that we actually have the

:39:38. > :39:42.import -- opportunity to make decisions about all about finances

:39:42. > :39:45.and in a way to do that is with independence. We are at a crucial

:39:45. > :39:48.juncture in our nation's history at the moment and we can either move

:39:48. > :39:54.forward with independence or it will be more of the same and that

:39:54. > :39:57.is why I am campaigning for a yes vote and I am confident we will win.

:39:57. > :40:02.A crucial juncture there but delegates are complaining they are

:40:02. > :40:04.not getting enough information from the media about independence but it

:40:04. > :40:08.is difficult asked to get any information because we have not

:40:08. > :40:12.seen the white paper yet. They are still a lot of questions to be

:40:12. > :40:16.answered, such as that this arrangement, will we have a seat on

:40:16. > :40:20.the Bank of England's Monetary Policy Committee? Are well, we will

:40:20. > :40:23.have a lot of information coming up over the next year's but I will

:40:23. > :40:27.tell you what is out that the moment. The figures you quoted on

:40:27. > :40:32.borrowing to David are incorrect. Yes, there would be a deficitLahm

:40:32. > :40:35.but there is a larger deficit the Scotland Under the UK. It is only

:40:35. > :40:41.half of the story and if we look at how Scotland would perform, we

:40:41. > :40:46.would still be financially better off. We have just got rid of one

:40:46. > :40:51.million leaflets as part of the Yes campaign to do SNP activists and

:40:51. > :40:54.there are more coming to the Green Party and other people. That is one

:40:54. > :40:58.million pieces of literature hitting the streets in the next few

:40:58. > :41:03.months and the information is coming up. On our website people

:41:03. > :41:07.can actually give their questions indirectly and we will answer them

:41:07. > :41:10.directly. The information is out there and we are open and

:41:11. > :41:16.transparent and ready. A answer me this, your critics say you

:41:16. > :41:21.hypocritical with the change in stance on NATO. Well, that is our

:41:21. > :41:25.position of for the SNP when it comes to the referendum vote in

:41:25. > :41:30.2014, this is a vote about independent. What happens after

:41:30. > :41:36.that on the policy is for the government in 2016. That is why Yes

:41:36. > :41:39.Scotland is a non-party political campaign. David, you were

:41:39. > :41:49.applauding very firmly when people were talking about a NATO in the

:41:49. > :41:54.hall, against joining. Are you disappointed in the party's stance?

:41:54. > :41:56.You have got to acknowledge that yesterday was a fantastic debate

:41:56. > :42:00.and it showed the Health and the internal democracy of the party.

:42:00. > :42:02.The fact that we are getting excited about defence policy means

:42:02. > :42:09.defence policy is coming to Scotland because independence is

:42:09. > :42:13.inevitable so it is could be added the discussion. Thank you very much.

:42:13. > :42:17.Blair Jenkins, the man who was running at the Yes Scotland

:42:17. > :42:22.campaign for independence has been giving this year's lecture. It

:42:22. > :42:26.commemorates Arthur Donaldson who led the SNP for most of the 1960s.

:42:26. > :42:33.He used his speech to set out the way ahead for Yes Scotland in the

:42:33. > :42:36.arm up for the Rafah -- referendum. There is one important thing that I

:42:36. > :42:41.want to say and that is to say as the chief executive of Yes Scotland,

:42:41. > :42:44.on behalf of everybody in Scotland to support an independent Scotland,

:42:44. > :42:54.I want to say thank you to the Scottish National Party for

:42:54. > :42:56.

:42:56. > :42:59.delivering the referendum. APPLAUSE.

:42:59. > :43:03.As you are aware, there is a large and growing number of people now

:43:03. > :43:08.who are pro-independence and want to be part of this campaign but we

:43:08. > :43:12.do understand that we owe you that debt of gratitude. I have no

:43:12. > :43:16.history of involvement in any political party, I have never been

:43:16. > :43:22.part of a political campaign of any or of any political activity of

:43:22. > :43:28.that kind but I did note that this was a campaigner had to be part of.

:43:28. > :43:31.In my career to date the things I have campaigned for the, the things

:43:31. > :43:37.I am known for campaigning for are better journalism and better

:43:37. > :43:46.broadcasting. Now our I am delighted to be campaigning for her

:43:46. > :43:51.better Scotland. APPLAUSE.

:43:51. > :43:56.I knew by the start of this year that I could not sit on the same -

:43:56. > :44:00.but I could not sit on the fence or bite my tongue for the next two

:44:00. > :44:07.years and not be part of this. This is a time to stand up and be

:44:07. > :44:12.counted. APPLAUSE. It is a very important

:44:12. > :44:16.thing to say about Yes Scotland, that we are not, ourselves, our

:44:16. > :44:20.policy-making group. Yes Scotland is about the pure principle of

:44:20. > :44:24.supporting independence, we are not about making policies ourselves.

:44:24. > :44:30.All we ask of people, the only admission ticket, the only price of

:44:30. > :44:33.entry, you support that core principle that the best people to

:44:33. > :44:43.predict British -- to make the decisions about the future of

:44:43. > :44:44.

:44:44. > :44:50.Scotland are the people of Scotland and the cells. -- themselves.

:44:50. > :44:56.This is a cause I believe that transcends party politics and in

:44:56. > :45:01.many ways it represents a new form of politics. The no narrative seems

:45:01. > :45:05.to be that the rest of the world, every other country, every other

:45:05. > :45:08.institution will react in an irrational and hostile way to a

:45:08. > :45:14.newly independent scholar. Why on earth should we believe that would

:45:14. > :45:17.be the case? There is nothing to underpin that. If we all went

:45:17. > :45:23.around in our private lives in that way, assuming the world was against

:45:23. > :45:29.us, none of us would ever leave home in the morning. On the

:45:29. > :45:34.evidence so far, the No campaign is exactly that, no vision, no

:45:34. > :45:44.ambition, the only thing holding them together is the desire to hold

:45:44. > :45:53.

:45:53. > :45:58.We are the first and only a generation of Scots to have this

:45:58. > :46:05.opportunity and that is a remarkable thing. -- and a

:46:05. > :46:11.regeneration. We will get that opportunity to vote for self-

:46:11. > :46:15.determination and to vote to have an independent future. The yes

:46:15. > :46:20.Scotland campaign will do three things for the people of Scotland.

:46:20. > :46:30.We will give them the information they need, the debate they deserve,

:46:30. > :46:35.

:46:35. > :46:41.and the outcome and the desire. -- Conference, if ever there was a

:46:41. > :46:48.cause, this is all calls. If ever there was a campaign, this is our

:46:48. > :46:58.campaign. And if ever there was a year, 2014 will be our year. 2014

:46:58. > :47:00.

:47:00. > :47:10.in Scotland will be the Year of yes. Bent you very much! -- thank you.

:47:10. > :47:12.

:47:12. > :47:21.Back to the conference hall, where Brian is standing by. Two, it --

:47:21. > :47:29.two colleagues. David Torrance and the editor of the Sunday Post. We

:47:29. > :47:33.heard from Blair Jenkins he was stressing the importance of the

:47:33. > :47:37.referendum. It is over everything in this referendum. On Monday

:47:37. > :47:44.before conference, the Prime Minister reached an agreement with

:47:44. > :47:49.Alex Salmond. On the face of it, it does not look good, polls have

:47:49. > :47:55.suggested support for independence is on a downward slide, but support

:47:55. > :48:01.will always fluctuate. Strategy iss here our confidence -- are

:48:01. > :48:05.confident that over the next two years, as the government becomes

:48:05. > :48:13.more unpopular, but they are confident the polling will narrow -

:48:13. > :48:18.- strategists. Was it deliberate that Alex Salmond began his very

:48:18. > :48:24.thoughtful speech with a bit of rabble-rousing Karaka chalk of the

:48:24. > :48:29.Conservative government? He always does. -- caricatural of the

:48:29. > :48:35.Conservative government. He always does. He started talking about

:48:35. > :48:41.Andrew Mitchell's resignation and the issue about George Osborne on

:48:41. > :48:45.the trace -- on the trains, people love Tory bashing. He wants to

:48:45. > :48:50.create it continuum from devolution to independence and conflating the

:48:50. > :48:55.Tories and Labour as being against that process. That was too good for

:48:55. > :49:02.a gift for him to ignore, but Conservative problems they have now.

:49:02. > :49:10.Last year, I thought it would be difficult to top the euphoria after

:49:10. > :49:14.they won that landslide election. But it is higher this time.

:49:14. > :49:17.Monday changed everything? He had got that agreement and they will

:49:17. > :49:25.have their vote on independence, some think the majority of members

:49:25. > :49:31.here never thought would come. polls suggest a leaf or 2% support

:49:31. > :49:39.-- only 30% support. It will narrow and as the Conservatives get deeper

:49:39. > :49:43.into trouble, I do not see any way out of it for them. He was having a

:49:43. > :49:51.go at the Conservatives because his strategy is, if you vote no, this

:49:51. > :50:00.is what you get. He is depicting the Tories as the leader -- as the

:50:00. > :50:07.leaders of the union campaign. David Cameron is a Tory, if you

:50:07. > :50:13.vote no, this is what you get. this the truth of it? Labour are

:50:13. > :50:18.the largest party involved in that organisation. It is not legitimate.

:50:18. > :50:24.Yes campaign is a coalition of different forces, including the

:50:24. > :50:30.Green Party. No campaign his three main parties. Alex Salmond has been

:50:30. > :50:37.gearing up to this narrative for a while, to depict the other parties

:50:37. > :50:42.as being anti-Scottish and anti- independence. The speech by Johann

:50:42. > :50:47.Lamont which arguably shifted ideologically was another gift to

:50:47. > :50:54.salmon -- to Alex Salmond. He is saying it is only by independents

:50:54. > :50:59.that you can protect the gains of devolution. Only by a voting yes

:50:59. > :51:04.can you protect universal benefits and the gains of devolution will be

:51:04. > :51:11.the vote for independence, and by voting no, you get nothing.

:51:11. > :51:15.fact the agreement was between David Cameron and Alex Salmond, it

:51:15. > :51:25.appears Alex Salmond is leading PDS campaigned. Alistair Darling is

:51:25. > :51:32.technically reading yet. -- is leading the yes campaign. For Alex

:51:32. > :51:37.Salmond, etc. It is the Edinburgh Agreement. He was saying it is the

:51:37. > :51:42.most important date in Scotland's history and David Cameron is

:51:42. > :51:50.leaving very quietly and saying very little -- important date.

:51:50. > :51:52.David Cameron, if he hung around, he would have been accused of

:51:52. > :51:57.interfering and glory seeking a. The Prime Minister did the right

:51:57. > :52:00.thing by going as soon as possible. His role in the Independent's

:52:00. > :52:08.campaign will have to be managed carefully by Downing Street.

:52:08. > :52:14.Another issue was that NATO debate. A remarkably tight outcome how

:52:14. > :52:22.important -- and how important was it that leadership got their way,

:52:22. > :52:26.how important was that? In it was important to end this issue

:52:26. > :52:31.publicly -- it was important to get this issue out publicly and they

:52:31. > :52:37.were saying, we are the only truly Democratic Party, we have

:52:37. > :52:42.democratic policy decisions, unlike the other parties. It was a very

:52:42. > :52:48.useful experience but it was much tighter than they expected an event

:52:48. > :52:52.Alex Salmond looked worried from that. The so was great fun because

:52:52. > :52:59.we go to other party conferences and have never seen a debate like

:52:59. > :53:09.that -- this was great fun. A great debate on both sides. You have seen

:53:09. > :53:15.a few debates but this is your last party conference! How will we cope?

:53:15. > :53:20.Without jogging top playing? Are you looking forward to the change?

:53:20. > :53:26.I am looking forward to it but I may still come to the odd party

:53:26. > :53:34.conference. From this slightly less noisy conference hall, it is back

:53:34. > :53:39.to the studio. Some final fought here? We are hearing it from David

:53:39. > :53:43.Torrance, he was speaking to some insiders, claiming they have

:53:43. > :53:48.carried out private polling showing the gap is narrowing, a

:53:48. > :53:53.possibility? Maybe, but the Poles have been moving in the wrong

:53:54. > :53:59.direction. The fact that they have been moving in the wrong direction

:53:59. > :54:08.during officio does raise doubts about a presumption behind the

:54:08. > :54:11.speech -- during this deal. Trying to feed in on the criticism of the

:54:11. > :54:17.Conservative-led coalition that this will increase support for

:54:17. > :54:21.independence, the truth is, support for the Conservatives in the UK has

:54:21. > :54:29.dropped and confidence in the ability of the UK government to

:54:29. > :54:34.handle the economy has fallen, but this has been happening and it has

:54:34. > :54:42.become a criticism with resonance, but support for instance has been

:54:42. > :54:45.falling. And the perception of the public, it is a relatively

:54:46. > :54:49.incompetently led government, but it does not seem to be a position

:54:49. > :54:55.for independence. As the Conservatives get deeper into

:54:55. > :54:59.trouble, he thought the support for independence would grow. My own

:54:59. > :55:04.Macro said Tricia that every time David Cameron opened his mouth

:55:04. > :55:10.about the independence referendum, more people moved in favour of it.

:55:10. > :55:13.That was the prediction that was not realised. Of course, SNP

:55:13. > :55:18.politicians will want to convince us that they can win. But

:55:18. > :55:23.throughout their remarks, there is a clear expectation and

:55:23. > :55:29.appreciation that they have ground to make-up and that is quite

:55:29. > :55:33.astonishing. But the other crucial thing is that we begin to see one

:55:33. > :55:40.reason why the SNP were willing to work -- were willing to accept a

:55:40. > :55:45.single question referendum, because they are hoping that section of

:55:45. > :55:50.Scotland's population, around one in three, who do not want

:55:50. > :55:56.independence, but to say yes to things like taxation and welfare

:55:56. > :56:03.benefits should be part of the Scottish Parliament, they are there

:56:03. > :56:08.devo max people. He says the only way to progress that is to vote yes.

:56:08. > :56:12.We will see if that argument works. But there is no doubt that

:56:12. > :56:16.Unionists have made it clear that if they did not appreciate it

:56:16. > :56:21.before, in not allowing the second option to be on the ballot paper,

:56:21. > :56:27.it does mean that there is that middle section of Scots that Alex

:56:27. > :56:32.Salmond hopes to get a 50%, and it does raise the question of, what

:56:32. > :56:37.will Unionists offer the people of Scotland in the way of devolution

:56:37. > :56:44.in advance? It will be difficult for them not to say something

:56:44. > :56:50.relatively concrete. And relatively agreed between them. That will

:56:50. > :56:55.avoid the danger that the devo max supporters will go to the

:56:55. > :57:00.independence people in the way they are not at the moment. The SNP are

:57:00. > :57:06.saying, we need here from the Unionists. A roadsides have much

:57:06. > :57:10.more to say. The SNP will have to say much more. -- both sides. They

:57:11. > :57:15.will have to say how or an independent Scotland would manage

:57:15. > :57:20.its finances and deliver more prosperity. And the Unionists will

:57:20. > :57:26.have to say how Scotland's interests will be promoted in the

:57:26. > :57:29.framework of the union, and Alex Salmond is rightly pointing out

:57:29. > :57:34.constitutional questions have economic implications. The

:57:34. > :57:38.Unionists have to outline the economic plan. Thank you for your