:00:17. > :00:23.They were told that they would not win parliamentary seats but they
:00:23. > :00:27.did. And then we were told that we could never get a Scottish
:00:27. > :00:31.Parliament but we did. And then we were told that you would never
:00:31. > :00:36.become the government in that parliament but we did. And more
:00:36. > :00:41.recently, we were told we would never be re-elected but we were!
:00:41. > :00:48.And now the same people say you will never get independence. But we
:00:48. > :00:54.shall. Welcome to Perth when SNP delegates
:00:54. > :01:00.gathered in upbeat mood after Monday's agreements on the terms of
:01:00. > :01:04.the independence referendum. Now with his game on for nationalists,
:01:04. > :01:14.with two years to turn round the opinion polls and win a vote for
:01:14. > :01:21.independence. Thank you, David. what sort of independent Scotland
:01:21. > :01:27.does the SNP want? One inside NATO or outside? The SNP's long-standing
:01:27. > :01:32.position has been to remove nuclear weapons from Scotland and leave
:01:32. > :01:37.NATO. Despite the protests, polls suggest that the majority of Scots
:01:37. > :01:42.want to stay in NATO. And the leadership instigated a debate on
:01:42. > :01:47.changing policy. Scotland in NATO is good defence, good for
:01:47. > :01:52.neighbouring nations who want historical continuity in defence.
:01:52. > :01:57.75 % of people in Scotland support being in NATO with only 11 %
:01:57. > :02:01.against. Delegates, I hope we can make it easy for that 75 %. We
:02:01. > :02:07.talking politics of taking people on a journey. It is always easier
:02:07. > :02:11.to do this if we keep the Jenny Short. Don't conjoin Scotland's
:02:11. > :02:15.NATO status with independence. Let's concentrate our efforts on
:02:15. > :02:23.the independence and keep Scotland in NATO. Keep the journey to
:02:23. > :02:32.Independence as short as possible for people. If you vote to join
:02:32. > :02:36.NATO, you will not get rid of Trident. You vote to join NATO and
:02:36. > :02:41.there will be pressure and phone calls to this man and his deputy,
:02:41. > :02:47.not to be involved with CND, not to support Palestinian and similar
:02:47. > :02:51.causes around the globe. I strongly resent the paraphrasing of this
:02:51. > :02:56.debate is you were either on board with NATO or you are an
:02:56. > :02:59.isolationist, without exception, everyone in this hall is an
:02:59. > :03:04.internationalist and it is inconceivable that Scotland, a
:03:04. > :03:12.small country on the -- to the north of Europe, would not co-
:03:12. > :03:19.operate with the British Isles and elsewhere. We await all -- we owe
:03:19. > :03:25.it all to recognise their defence needs and security. But we also owe
:03:25. > :03:31.it to our own fault here -- our own folk here in Scotland to provide a
:03:31. > :03:35.proper defence system for our needs, that includes NATO. Let's look at
:03:35. > :03:40.Germany. The largest nation in Europe. They have had to step back
:03:40. > :03:45.from their stated desire to remove nuclear weapons from their shores
:03:45. > :03:49.due to the stance of NATO. Similar has happened in Holland and Belgium.
:03:49. > :03:54.If it is nigh-on impossible for Germany to remove weapons of mass
:03:54. > :03:59.destruction, why should we expect it to be simple for Scotland to
:03:59. > :04:05.remove it, let alone make our case any easier one? Conference, even if
:04:05. > :04:09.it were possible to remove nuclear weapons from Scotland and remain a
:04:09. > :04:19.member of NATO, where is the morality in asking and seeking to
:04:19. > :04:23.rid our own country... Where is the morality in ridding our own country
:04:23. > :04:27.of nuclear-weapons but sheltering under the umbrella of an
:04:27. > :04:31.organisation that has a first strike policy. To reconsider
:04:31. > :04:37.nuclear-weapons immoral because they are located in Scotland or do
:04:37. > :04:41.we consider them immoral wherever they may be located? 75 % of
:04:41. > :04:51.Scottish people want to remain in NATO, I ask you, who are these 75 %
:04:51. > :04:52.
:04:52. > :04:56.of people? I have never met them! I speak to thousands of constituents
:04:56. > :05:03.in my constituency, it is a very good constituency, very well
:05:03. > :05:11.educated, no one has ever raised the issue of NATO with me. Who were
:05:11. > :05:21.these 75 % to want to stay in NATO? Friends, I am no US poster boy.
:05:21. > :05:26.
:05:26. > :05:30.And I am certainly no US lap dog, there are probably still a few
:05:31. > :05:35.senators hunting me, let's be clear what this debate is about. It is
:05:35. > :05:41.not about anybody being pro Trident or pro the obscenity of nuclear
:05:41. > :05:45.weapons, no one in this chamber, irrespective of what side you are
:05:45. > :05:50.taking in this debate, is in support of that. There are people
:05:50. > :05:54.in Scotland who do need reassurance that we will be safe and secure.
:05:54. > :05:58.Not from the Red Army, they cannot even tell us who they wish to be
:05:58. > :06:02.secure from, but whether their fears are it irrational or rational,
:06:02. > :06:12.they matter and we need to be able to satisfy them and allay their
:06:12. > :06:13.
:06:13. > :06:17.fears. We have got a toehold in 2007 and we built upon it with a
:06:17. > :06:27.majority in 2011 but we are not there yet. We have got to win the
:06:27. > :06:29.
:06:29. > :06:35.biggest vote of all in 2014. That is why... I have marched for CND, I
:06:35. > :06:41.have protested against Trident, I have demonstrated against the Iraq
:06:41. > :06:48.war. I am tired Marcham. I want a seat for our government in these
:06:48. > :06:51.situations of power. -- I am tired marching. I want our First Minister
:06:51. > :06:55.to enshrine the constitution of an independent Scotland with a
:06:55. > :07:00.declaration that we will be nuclear free. I want to make sure that we
:07:00. > :07:04.will send representatives to United Nations that will say a war is not
:07:04. > :07:12.in our name. I want to make sure that we are there. I want to make
:07:12. > :07:18.sure that we win in 2014. Kennea, thank you for pointing out
:07:18. > :07:26.that these fears of attack to Scotland are irrational. You do not
:07:26. > :07:34.deal with irrationality by pandering to it, you a decayed it.
:07:34. > :07:39.-- you educate. We are not a party of protest, we are a party of
:07:39. > :07:44.government with power. With that power, use it to educate the people.
:07:44. > :07:48.Conference, if you go to Google and put in the words NATO civilian
:07:48. > :07:55.casualties, in 51 seconds you will come up with just under 4 million
:07:55. > :08:00.hits. The most recent, just a few hours old, is another apology for
:08:00. > :08:08.civilian casualties in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Our party's long-
:08:08. > :08:13.standing opposition to NATO is a foundation principle of the SNP.
:08:13. > :08:18.In my considered, regret full professional view, our professional
:08:18. > :08:28.-- our present policy makes us look odd. Hopelessly naive and
:08:28. > :08:29.
:08:29. > :08:38.idealistic at best, not ready for the big league. Alan Smith said it
:08:38. > :08:43.was hopelessly naive. I am sorry. If my political participation had
:08:43. > :08:49.been based on things that other people thought were politically
:08:49. > :08:57.naive, then I would not have started supporting Scottish
:08:57. > :09:02.independence over 40 years ago. It is simply hypocritical, on the one
:09:02. > :09:07.hand to say that you are against weapons of must destruction, and
:09:07. > :09:13.joined a club that uses them or threatens to use them -- weapons of
:09:13. > :09:23.mass destruction. If we do not have an agreement on the withdrawal of
:09:23. > :09:23.
:09:23. > :09:28.Trident, we will not be in NATO. It is very simple. I'm very
:09:28. > :09:30.honoured to be a campaign director for the Scottish National Party in
:09:30. > :09:39.the two Scottish National Parliament victories that we have
:09:39. > :09:47.won. But do not kid yourselves. Our best-ever result has been 44 % of
:09:47. > :09:57.the vote, not 50 % plus one at that is what we require in the
:09:57. > :09:58.
:09:58. > :10:05.referendum in 2014 to secure our This debate, this vote, is about
:10:05. > :10:15.much, much more than carrying a conference hall. This is about
:10:15. > :10:19.
:10:19. > :10:25.carrying the country and we need Do not disregard the evidence. When
:10:25. > :10:31.asked, 75 % of respondents said they would wish an independent
:10:31. > :10:36.Scotland... You can book, you can be but do not disregard the
:10:36. > :10:41.evidence. We have the largest attendance of the diplomatic
:10:41. > :10:46.immunity from our neighbouring nations. They are here for a reason.
:10:46. > :10:50.They want to know what we are going to do when Scotland becomes
:10:50. > :10:54.independent and I tell you what I want to do. I want an independent
:10:54. > :10:57.Scotland to get rid of Trident. I want an independent Scotland to be
:10:57. > :11:02.a good neighbour and ally and walking away from our neighbours
:11:02. > :11:11.and allies will not help us win the referendum in 2014 and that means
:11:11. > :11:14.we cannot be a good neighbour and The show of hands was not
:11:14. > :11:24.conclusive and there was real tension in the hall as the votes
:11:24. > :11:27.
:11:27. > :11:32.were counted. Those in favour of the resolution, 426. Those against,
:11:32. > :11:37.332. The resolution as amended his past.
:11:37. > :11:41.So, the leadership got their way on NATO but there was no doubting the
:11:41. > :11:45.conviction of some of the opponents for whom this was ultimately a
:11:45. > :11:50.matter of morality, prove that the toughest debates in politics
:11:50. > :11:54.involved a mixture of principle, pragmatism and passion. A moral
:11:54. > :11:59.issue also came to the fore at a fringe making away from the
:11:59. > :12:04.Conference Centre. The plans for same-sex marriage were strongly
:12:04. > :12:10.condemned by former party leader Gordon Wilson at an event organised
:12:10. > :12:17.by opponents. The issue of same-sex marriage is
:12:17. > :12:23.one which is deeply divisive. I think that the SNP government, for
:12:23. > :12:29.reasons I cannot understand, have stumbled into a difficulty that
:12:29. > :12:33.they should have avoided. As a nationalist, I find it very odd
:12:33. > :12:37.that in the run-up to an independence referendum, the SNP
:12:38. > :12:43.government adopted same-sex marriage, knowing that it would
:12:43. > :12:48.alienate vet -- many voters. A brilliant tactician I think at work.
:12:48. > :12:52.What is the real social crisis facing Scotland? An ageing
:12:53. > :12:56.population. And yet here we have the government going full-out in
:12:56. > :13:01.favour of associations which are sterile and do not produce children.
:13:01. > :13:06.The nation needs children. Only a man and woman can actually have
:13:06. > :13:11.children and family marriage is -- as I redefine it is the best way of
:13:11. > :13:16.bringing up children. That is the law of nature. Personally, I think
:13:16. > :13:20.as people who oppose this proposal, I don't like to see us opposing it
:13:20. > :13:24.even partly on the ground that people are against it, I think we
:13:24. > :13:34.should oppose it very strongly on the grounds that it is simply wrong
:13:34. > :13:34.
:13:34. > :13:38.and wrong is wrong if nobody's as it -- says it. I grew up in fear.
:13:38. > :13:43.The fear UN mentioning earlier because I am a gay man. The fear
:13:43. > :13:48.that I would lose my job, but I would be sacked. The fear that I
:13:48. > :13:52.would not be promoted. Now all we are looking for in a society that
:13:52. > :13:56.has progressed over centuries, where in this country we have
:13:56. > :14:00.freedoms others are bleeding for, minimal freedoms, what we are
:14:00. > :14:05.looking for is to progress that on the simple basis that an individual
:14:05. > :14:14.has the right to love a person and settle with them in a contract
:14:14. > :14:20.recognised by the state. I respect the church. Let him have his say.
:14:20. > :14:24.respect the church's views but equally, over centuries, the church
:14:24. > :14:34.itself has been associated with the persecuted -- the persecution that
:14:34. > :14:49.
:14:49. > :14:54.Back in the main hall, John Swinney Public sector workers have seen at
:14:54. > :15:04.their pay frozen, but this allowed us to deliver a no redundancy
:15:04. > :15:05.
:15:05. > :15:13.policy. The NHS budget has been fully protected. The creation of a
:15:13. > :15:18.single police force with 1,000 extra policeman on the beat. A
:15:18. > :15:23.higher share of spending for local authorities. These and other hard
:15:23. > :15:27.choices we made allowed us, not just to deliver a balanced budget,
:15:27. > :15:34.but to deliver the social contract that we value and the services that
:15:34. > :15:39.Scotland needs. The energy policy is crucial and controversial.
:15:39. > :15:49.Whilst a protest against wind farms was happening outside the main hall,
:15:49. > :15:52.
:15:52. > :16:02.at a meeting near by, the Energy Minister was explaining how
:16:02. > :16:06.
:16:06. > :16:09.important the energy situation is. If we do get a yes, it means we
:16:09. > :16:14.have successfully communicated what is happening with oil and gas in
:16:14. > :16:21.Scotland. It is my impression that the facts about what is happening,
:16:21. > :16:29.in Aberdeen in particular, are not widely known. It is not widely
:16:29. > :16:34.known that there are around 196,000 people working in the industry. It
:16:34. > :16:44.is not widely known that there are 2,000 companies in Scotland working
:16:44. > :16:44.
:16:44. > :16:48.in the sector. It is not widely known that there are 20 or perhaps
:16:48. > :16:53.slightly more than 20 billion barrels of oil undeveloped. It is
:16:53. > :17:00.not widely known that the value of the oil and gas that has not yet
:17:00. > :17:08.been extracted his work 1.5 trillion pounds. Now, the boss said
:17:08. > :17:12.that anything over a million is a big number, so how do we get across
:17:12. > :17:22.what 1.5 trillion means? One of the communication challenges is to put
:17:22. > :17:24.
:17:24. > :17:34.this into the number of schools and hospitals. This kind of money could
:17:34. > :17:37.
:17:37. > :17:47.dual be main motorway nine times over. The organisation can Maint --
:17:47. > :17:51.
:17:51. > :17:56.Yes Scotland wants to get their message across, anyway they can.
:17:56. > :18:02.was speaking to students recently and one thing I asked them was to
:18:02. > :18:07.imagine what this campaign would be like if Scotland had remained
:18:07. > :18:11.independent and the blade to we were having it in two years time
:18:11. > :18:15.was over whether we should join the union. What I asked them to do was
:18:15. > :18:19.imagine the kind of proposal that the pro-union campaign might be
:18:19. > :18:24.putting forward in the circumstances. In my view, it would
:18:24. > :18:28.be an impossible campaign to run. Let us just think about it. Your
:18:28. > :18:34.main parliament would move hundreds of miles away and your MPs would be
:18:34. > :18:37.in a tiny minority. You would get a government you did not vote for.
:18:37. > :18:42.All of your work and gas revenues would be handed over to the
:18:42. > :18:47.Treasury in London. The biggest nuclear weapons facility in western
:18:47. > :18:57.Europe would be built on the River Clyde, 50 miles from your larger
:18:57. > :19:10.
:19:10. > :19:13.You will be joining a country whose health and education services are
:19:13. > :19:23.rapidly been privatised. Now and again, you would get dragged into
:19:23. > :19:28.an illegal foreign wall. -- foreign war. An austerity budget will
:19:28. > :19:32.threaten vital public services. The financial regulation system will be
:19:32. > :19:38.so weak and so lax that your whole economy will be brought to the
:19:38. > :19:42.brink of collapse. And then finally, the most weak and vulnerable in
:19:42. > :19:46.your society, instead of getting the protection and support they
:19:46. > :19:52.deserve, will instead be interrogated and humiliated in an
:19:52. > :20:01.effort to get them off the meagre levels of support to which they are
:20:01. > :20:06.entitled. Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon had a challenge for
:20:06. > :20:12.the Chancellor George Osborne. Delegates, we are doing everything
:20:12. > :20:17.we can, but our economy needs more. I have a private message for the
:20:17. > :20:22.Chancellor. A message on behalf of every construction firm clinging on
:20:22. > :20:28.by their fingertips. On behalf of every unemployed person desperate
:20:28. > :20:34.for some light at the end of the tunnel. Our economy needs a capital
:20:34. > :20:39.stimulus and it needs it now. If the Chancellor cares about getting
:20:39. > :20:43.growth back into aware economy, if he cares about getting people into
:20:43. > :20:49.work and giving young people hope of a brighter future then he must
:20:49. > :20:53.listen, not to us, but to the growing band of economists who say
:20:53. > :20:57.it is time to take a different course. Use the autumn Budget
:20:57. > :21:02.statement to increase capital spending and except once and for
:21:02. > :21:12.all that we will not cut a way out of this recession. We must build
:21:12. > :21:18.
:21:19. > :21:23.Our Way Out of recession. Delegates, I do not meet many people whooping
:21:23. > :21:28.the economic policies of successive UK governments have been good for
:21:28. > :21:32.Scotland, but I do meet people who ask, how do we know that
:21:32. > :21:40.independence will be better? Friends, there is no country in the
:21:40. > :21:44.world, big or small, that is guaranteed success, but he appears.
:21:44. > :21:50.The combination of A1 natural resources and the skills and
:21:50. > :22:00.intelligence of our people make us just as capable as any other nation
:22:00. > :22:07.
:22:07. > :22:13.in the world of being a successful, prosperous independent country.
:22:13. > :22:18.first minister's keynote speech looked ahead to be a referendum.
:22:18. > :22:23.know that there are many of our fellow citizens that are willing to
:22:23. > :22:28.be convinced about the merits of independence. But we also know
:22:28. > :22:32.there is a majority for change in this country. We know that at heart,
:22:32. > :22:42.people trust their own parliament far more than they will ever trust
:22:42. > :22:43.
:22:43. > :22:48.Westminster. They know they can ask about individual policies. We know
:22:48. > :22:53.people want economic policy to be decided by the Scottish parliament.
:22:53. > :22:58.So let us put these popular aspirations together. A parliament
:22:58. > :23:06.which decides on social welfare, Trident, the economy and represent
:23:06. > :23:11.Scotland on the world stage and you have an independent parliament.
:23:11. > :23:17.Independence is not a single event, it is a process. But it is a
:23:17. > :23:24.process that involves more than just the transfer of power was. It
:23:24. > :23:34.is a process where we except the responsibility of changing our
:23:34. > :23:35.
:23:35. > :23:40.country for the better. In 1997, in Scotland's last referendum, we made
:23:40. > :23:50.a case for a fairer and more democratic Scotland. Three-quarters
:23:50. > :23:50.
:23:51. > :24:00.of the people voted for that proposition. People from a cross
:24:01. > :24:05.
:24:05. > :24:15.for - that people from across Scotland to wanted affair the save.
:24:15. > :24:25.-- people from across Scotland who wanted a fairer say. We want to say
:24:25. > :24:26.
:24:26. > :24:32.yes to progress once again. As for the other campaign, their objective
:24:32. > :24:36.is different. It seems they are against independence for one simple
:24:36. > :24:41.reason. An independent Scotland will be bound by the people of
:24:41. > :24:51.Scotland for the people of Scotland. Instead of telling us what we can
:24:51. > :24:55.
:24:55. > :25:05.do, they tell us what we can't do. The irony is that they've followed
:25:05. > :25:12.
:25:12. > :25:15.a government that can't even run a railway let alone a government. How
:25:15. > :25:25.can Labour and the Conservatives tell us we are incapable of running
:25:25. > :25:40.
:25:40. > :25:50.away or country?! - Matt Browning Away is very different. We expect
:25:50. > :25:58.
:25:59. > :26:08.public services to be run properly. We judge on imports -- on output.
:26:09. > :26:10.
:26:10. > :26:19.Also, we know that free personal care for senior citizens is not
:26:19. > :26:29.some giveaway bonus. It maintains dignity and health and to remain in
:26:29. > :26:34.
:26:34. > :26:38.their homes and communities. We believe that the parliament's
:26:39. > :26:45.policies on personal care, transport and education promote
:26:45. > :26:50.solidarity and protect the vulnerable from been discriminated
:26:50. > :26:59.against. They give everyone a stake in the country because they reflect
:27:00. > :27:07.the common Weal of Scotland. Have no doubt what was gained by it
:27:07. > :27:11.devolution can be guaranteed with independence. Let us be enough to
:27:11. > :27:16.our political editor of Brian Taylor. The NATO debate - why
:27:16. > :27:22.should anyone policy matters so much ahead of the referendum?
:27:22. > :27:28.the context. It is one of reassurance. The SNP yearn for
:27:28. > :27:38.independence, but individually and collectively and they do not want
:27:38. > :27:48.obstacles placed in the way of that. They want to reassure the people of
:27:48. > :27:54.
:27:54. > :27:59.Scotland. They see withdrawing from NATO as an obstacle to independence.
:27:59. > :28:08.After such an impassioned debate on NATO, it does their nanny to be a
:28:08. > :28:12.healing process? There were harsh words on both sides. Accusations of
:28:12. > :28:19.hypocrisy and accusations of naivety from Alan Smith and one or
:28:19. > :28:24.two others, but the healing process has already begun. What is that? It
:28:24. > :28:30.is called independence. It is the biggest prize, the big prize for
:28:30. > :28:36.which they absolutely crave and they will subsume other obstacles
:28:36. > :28:41.and problems and divisions in search of that. It is a long time
:28:41. > :28:51.since we have seen any debates like this at any party conference.
:28:51. > :28:53.
:28:53. > :28:58.is true. The last similar debates was a while ago. It was about
:28:58. > :29:08.joining the campaign for devolution. Some in the party felt it was a
:29:08. > :29:11.
:29:11. > :29:20.cul-de-sac. It was a lively debate. The conclusion was to go with the