0:00:16 > 0:00:23Hello and a warm welcome to eight damp and drizzly Westminster. Don't
0:00:23 > 0:00:27be fooled by the brief interlude of sunshine. Whoever coined the phrase,
0:00:27 > 0:00:32April showers, it knew what they were talking about. The
0:00:32 > 0:00:37constitutional debate continues to occupied MPs on the debate -- day
0:00:37 > 0:00:41that Holyrood passes its verdict on the day that gives it more powers.
0:00:41 > 0:00:47What was contained in the Scotland Bill was the subject on the very
0:00:47 > 0:00:57first question here. He order. Questions to the
0:00:57 > 0:00:58
0:00:58 > 0:01:02Mr Speaker, on 21st March, I tabled a statement to confirm agreement
0:01:02 > 0:01:06had been reached with the Scottish government on the Scotland Bill.
0:01:06 > 0:01:10The Scottish government has tabled a memorandum recommending the
0:01:10 > 0:01:17support of the bill and members of the Scottish Parliament will vote
0:01:17 > 0:01:22to Labour -- later today. The news got him bail has indicated that it
0:01:22 > 0:01:27will pass significant powers to the Scottish Parliament. I'll wonder
0:01:27 > 0:01:30whether the recommendations he has received, whether he received any
0:01:30 > 0:01:35from the first minister to work jointly with the Secretary of State
0:01:35 > 0:01:40to highlight and promote the powers to show we can maximise devolution
0:01:40 > 0:01:46by eight -- whilst maintaining the integrity and strength and
0:01:46 > 0:01:50partnership with the UK. I have not had that particular representation
0:01:50 > 0:01:55but I agree that it is the most significant piece of legislation
0:01:55 > 0:02:03and transfer of financial powers from London to Edinburgh since 17
0:02:03 > 0:02:0707. Very quickly after the bell cm and I hope we will get on with
0:02:07 > 0:02:12implementation in the right way and show that devolution works well for
0:02:12 > 0:02:18Scotland. The Scottish government and the majority of members of the
0:02:18 > 0:02:23Scottish Parliament believe that this will be an improvement and it
0:02:23 > 0:02:26will have job-creating powers but it has not happened. Will the
0:02:26 > 0:02:29Secretary of State take the opportunity to confirm that the UK
0:02:29 > 0:02:32government has agreed to safeguards which ensures the Scottish
0:02:32 > 0:02:38Parliament will need to be satisfied that funding arrangements
0:02:38 > 0:02:43will not be detrimental? Can I say that I have a very different view
0:02:43 > 0:02:47of the future of Scotland from the honourable gentleman? I want to see
0:02:47 > 0:02:51Scotland continues strongly to be part of the UK. On the specifics, I
0:02:51 > 0:02:55am pleased that the Scottish government has accepted the
0:02:55 > 0:03:00Scotland Bill and we have worked carefully together to ensure we
0:03:00 > 0:03:05have the right measures in place to it ensure we will implement it
0:03:05 > 0:03:09carefully for all the people of Scotland. Does the Secretary of
0:03:09 > 0:03:16State acknowledge that, in the wake of the historic SNP victory last
0:03:16 > 0:03:21year, every single political party miraculously is now in favour of
0:03:21 > 0:03:25more powers than are currently contained in the Scotland Bill?
0:03:25 > 0:03:31Which further powers does the Secretary of State want is the
0:03:31 > 0:03:36exercised in Scotland? A fantastic diversionary tactic from the
0:03:36 > 0:03:39honourable gentleman. He never talks about independence. Why?
0:03:39 > 0:03:44Because they cannot answer the fundamental questions about
0:03:44 > 0:03:48independence. I am delighted he wants to work with this. About
0:03:48 > 0:03:54devolution, it has always worked on the basis that we promote ideas,
0:03:54 > 0:03:57come to consensus and the debate on devolution will continue but we
0:03:57 > 0:04:07must resolve the issue of independence. Why does he not want
0:04:07 > 0:04:11to get on with that debate? Mr Speaker, I have regular meetings
0:04:11 > 0:04:18with senior Cabinet ministers, including the Chancellor of the
0:04:18 > 0:04:24Exchequer where a right -- wide range of issues are discussed. This
0:04:24 > 0:04:30includes the period in the run-up to the Budget. I have my doubts
0:04:30 > 0:04:34whether he had any meetings. Anyway, there are more families using tax
0:04:34 > 0:04:38credits in Glasgow and more pensioners hit with a "granny tax"
0:04:38 > 0:04:44in Glasgow than they Iraq millionaires receiving the mansion
0:04:44 > 0:04:48tax in the whole of Great Britain. Is that what he calls them look --
0:04:48 > 0:04:53Liberal Democrats speeding up for Scotland? He just cannot get the
0:04:53 > 0:04:57Labour Party off the hook of the mess they left the economy in at
0:04:57 > 0:05:02the end of the last Parliament. We have to sort the biggest deficit in
0:05:02 > 0:05:06peacetime history and get as on the pass -- path to sustainable growth.
0:05:07 > 0:05:11We have had to take daft decisions but I am proud that because of the
0:05:11 > 0:05:21measures in his Budget, more tax will be -- Scots will be taken out
0:05:21 > 0:05:26of income tax on and pensioners can forget the insult of the 75p
0:05:26 > 0:05:29increase. Did my right honourable friend or the Chancellor received
0:05:29 > 0:05:39Budget recommendations from the Scottish government about the
0:05:39 > 0:05:41
0:05:41 > 0:05:48financial consequences of Scotland being separated from NATO?
0:05:48 > 0:05:54Did he make a case for re profiling direct capital investment for
0:05:54 > 0:05:59funding shovel ready projects? That is the most effective thing we can
0:05:59 > 0:06:03do for GDP growth. Or did he roll over and accept a tax break for
0:06:03 > 0:06:09millionaires? Honestly, the honourable gentleman should reflect
0:06:09 > 0:06:13carefully. Perhaps in a rare moment of generosity, he would welcome
0:06:13 > 0:06:17that since the spending review we have announced a further billion
0:06:17 > 0:06:23pounds of spending for to the Scottish government. We are
0:06:23 > 0:06:30continuing to maintain conditions for growth and in then de their
0:06:30 > 0:06:35enterprise zones that have under the cent capital allowances.
0:06:35 > 0:06:40Because of the high price of fuel, there is damage being done to
0:06:40 > 0:06:46businesses and people's incomes because of the long distance people
0:06:46 > 0:06:51in my constituency have to travel. Will the have a word with the
0:06:51 > 0:06:57Chancellor? My honourable friend is a consistent campaigner on this
0:06:57 > 0:07:00issue. I am always happy to have discussions about that. I would
0:07:00 > 0:07:06hope he would recognise the fact that as a result of the measures we
0:07:07 > 0:07:11have taken, we have provided a cut relative to what Labour proposed
0:07:11 > 0:07:16and we have provided support for remote rural communities in
0:07:16 > 0:07:24Scotland as well. Does the Secretary of State at all can he
0:07:24 > 0:07:33tell us the last time he ate a hot Bridie and did he discuss what the
0:07:33 > 0:07:39chancellor the impact of the tax on these? I would have lobby
0:07:39 > 0:07:42honourable gentleman was above such personal attacks. My own preference
0:07:42 > 0:07:47is for fish and chips and he will know There are plenty of places
0:07:47 > 0:07:52where you can get a very fine fish supper. We have had to take tough
0:07:52 > 0:07:56decisions to make sure everything is there on that front. Does my
0:07:56 > 0:07:59right honourable friend agree that in difficult economic times it is
0:07:59 > 0:08:05important that the government helps people on low incomes by cutting
0:08:05 > 0:08:09taxes and taking their lowest paid out of tax and that is in stark
0:08:09 > 0:08:14contrast to the last Labour government to doubled the 10 pence
0:08:15 > 0:08:20tax rate. My honourable friend is right. Our priority has to be to
0:08:20 > 0:08:25give help to people on low and middle incomes. There is people
0:08:25 > 0:08:32need the most support and 160,000 Scots will be out of income tax
0:08:32 > 0:08:39altogether because of us. That is the right way to approach this.
0:08:39 > 0:08:44I begin with a quote. "he do simple equation as that we think the
0:08:44 > 0:08:48priority is to help those on the lowest incomes". That will have to
0:08:48 > 0:08:52be paid for and we think it is fair that those who have the broadest
0:08:52 > 0:08:55shoulders should be the ones to contribute to that. Can the
0:08:55 > 0:09:02Secretary of State tell the House which member of the Cabinet said
0:09:02 > 0:09:07that about the recent budget? Important point is that in the
0:09:07 > 0:09:11economic circumstances, we fix the deficit, get the economy on the
0:09:11 > 0:09:16right track and, in doing so, make decisions which help the lowest
0:09:16 > 0:09:21paid and middle income earners and that is what we are doing by taking
0:09:21 > 0:09:27people out of tax and ensuring we reduce the tax burden on others.
0:09:27 > 0:09:33didn't even recognise in his own quote. He should know that there is
0:09:33 > 0:09:37a foundation which confirms that cut to tax credits will dwarf any
0:09:37 > 0:09:41gains of an increased to personal tax allowances so he needs to stop
0:09:41 > 0:09:46using that argument. Can he tell us why he has changed his position
0:09:46 > 0:09:51since he last back to the Evening Standard when, over 400,000
0:09:51 > 0:09:55Scottish pensioners will be hit by the "granny tax", Beauvais 84,000
0:09:55 > 0:10:01families in Scotland will have lost all their tax credits and, at the
0:10:01 > 0:10:07same time, the budget has given 16,000 of the richest Scots a
0:10:07 > 0:10:12massive tax cut. Will he finally admit that this was a Budget that
0:10:12 > 0:10:16has hit start -- Scotland hard, has done more for millionaires than it
0:10:16 > 0:10:21has for hard-working families and when will the Secretary of State
0:10:21 > 0:10:26stop being a Tory front man and stand up for people in Scotland?
0:10:26 > 0:10:30The last Labour Secretary of State said that Labour had to be credible
0:10:30 > 0:10:33on the economy on the financial regime but they are not being
0:10:33 > 0:10:39credible with proposals they are putting forward at the moment. I
0:10:39 > 0:10:42stand by the comments I made. My intention and my colleagues
0:10:42 > 0:10:47intention is to ensure we provide support to the lowest and middle
0:10:47 > 0:10:57income earners in this country and that those on the highest earnings
0:10:57 > 0:11:03
0:11:03 > 0:11:07pay their way. We will ensure they Changes to the block grant a cut
0:11:07 > 0:11:12lated by the Barnet formula. Due to the unprecedented deficit we
0:11:12 > 0:11:16inherited, our immediate priority is to reduce the deficit and we
0:11:16 > 0:11:21have no plans to change the arrangements before the
0:11:21 > 0:11:25stabilisation of public finances. thank the Minister for that answer.
0:11:25 > 0:11:30Given the government has no plans to replace the formula with a
0:11:30 > 0:11:35formula based on need and given the need for there to be clarity for
0:11:35 > 0:11:39the people of Scotland before they vote to know what proportion of the
0:11:39 > 0:11:45national debt they inherit, will he agree that the Barnet multiplier
0:11:45 > 0:11:51will be a good method of doing that? What I believe is that we
0:11:51 > 0:11:55need to move on from the discussion on issues of process in relation to
0:11:55 > 0:12:01the referendum and have the substantive debate on issues that
0:12:01 > 0:12:05will if affect Scotland if it were to become independent. The SNP,
0:12:05 > 0:12:11having campaigned relentlessly for independence, now appear to want to
0:12:11 > 0:12:16put those issues of for as long as possible. Does the Minister agree
0:12:16 > 0:12:26that the high price of fuel is creating major problems in Scotland
0:12:26 > 0:12:34and, at a stroke, if he were to cut the a key - might VAT, that would
0:12:34 > 0:12:40help Scottish families who are suffering greatly. The funding
0:12:40 > 0:12:46formula for Scotland. It is of course calculated by a basket of
0:12:46 > 0:12:51taxes raised by the UK government. Scots would be much worse off in
0:12:51 > 0:12:57relation to fuel duty had fuel duty been 10 pence higher as it would be
0:12:57 > 0:13:01if Labour were in power. Would he agree that it is important to
0:13:01 > 0:13:08maintain the Union in the interests of England and Scotland but that
0:13:08 > 0:13:15the funding formula should be fair to both countries? I absolutely
0:13:15 > 0:13:20agree with the honourable gentleman's sentiments but he is
0:13:20 > 0:13:23aware that this government inherited the worst deficit in
0:13:23 > 0:13:28peacetime history and that stabilising our nation's finances
0:13:28 > 0:13:32has to be the focus of the Government's efforts.
0:13:32 > 0:13:35relationship to the last question and answer, will the Minister not
0:13:35 > 0:13:39agree the Scotland Bill will increase the amount of revenue
0:13:39 > 0:13:44gathered in Scotland to about a third of its spend and therefore
0:13:44 > 0:13:48decrease the dependency on a block grant? I agree that the Scotland
0:13:48 > 0:13:53Bill represents a radical historic and significant change to the
0:13:53 > 0:13:57financing of Scotland - more than one-third of spending in Scotland
0:13:57 > 0:14:02by the parliament will be determined by funding from taxes
0:14:02 > 0:14:06that they raise an determined. It is a major step forward in
0:14:06 > 0:14:16devolution and accountability and should be welcomed by all members
0:14:16 > 0:14:21
0:14:21 > 0:14:26The consultation responses gave strong endorsement for a referendum
0:14:26 > 0:14:31with a single clear question on independence overseen by the
0:14:31 > 0:14:34Electoral Commission using the same franchise as that used to elect
0:14:34 > 0:14:39members of Parliament and hell sooner rather than later.
0:14:39 > 0:14:45grateful. Does he agree with the consensus of responses that say
0:14:45 > 0:14:51that people do not want to wait 1000 days in order to have a
0:14:51 > 0:14:57referendum? This is an important decision, the most important we
0:14:57 > 0:15:07Ascot will take in our lifetimes and it is causing uncertainty the
0:15:07 > 0:15:09
0:15:09 > 0:15:13longer it is delayed. The sooner we Could I ask my Rt Hon friend for
0:15:13 > 0:15:19his responses to the consultation, that Richard other simple yes or no
0:15:19 > 0:15:24to any referendum in order to have a decisive outcome? We must not
0:15:24 > 0:15:28muddle the issue of independence up with a separate issue of devolution.
0:15:28 > 0:15:32We mark another important milestone with the development of the
0:15:32 > 0:15:35Scotland Bill. Assuming we get their Lordships support, what we
0:15:35 > 0:15:41want is a clear decision on the future Robert country and that it
0:15:41 > 0:15:47should stay within United Kingdom. -- the future of up and it. Will
0:15:47 > 0:15:50the Secretary of State's fact the Labour Party for providing is a
0:15:50 > 0:15:53meagre consultation with over a quarter of this responses, I
0:15:53 > 0:15:59suppose it adds new meaning to the idea of a Labour blog board, but
0:15:59 > 0:16:03can he tell us how many responses he got from the Labour website,
0:16:03 > 0:16:08which slightly amended the text? And why is the Labour Party doing
0:16:08 > 0:16:12all the work on the ground for the story-let consultation? It should
0:16:12 > 0:16:16have the be a surprise that political parties want to take part
0:16:16 > 0:16:21in consultations. It is an intensely political process, but
0:16:21 > 0:16:26even this morning, on the SNP website there was a free prepared
0:16:26 > 0:16:34script for people to respond to the SNP consultation. So they have to
0:16:34 > 0:16:40be careful with the argument they are trying to make. 70% of
0:16:40 > 0:16:46respondents to the UK consultation felt that 2014 was too long to wait
0:16:46 > 0:16:50for Scotland's constitutional future. Businesses and financial
0:16:50 > 0:16:56institutions in my constituency feel that this state of limbo is
0:16:56 > 0:16:59damaging the economy of Scotland. Has the Secretary of State received
0:17:00 > 0:17:03similar representations? honourable lady is entirely right
0:17:03 > 0:17:07to draw attention to this issue and to highlight, not just in her
0:17:07 > 0:17:12constituency but across Scotland and the UK, businesses, like
0:17:12 > 0:17:16individuals, want answers. We need to respond to this issue sooner or
0:17:16 > 0:17:26later so that we do not lose out on investment and jobs and pass a
0:17:26 > 0:17:31
0:17:31 > 0:17:39future within the UK. -- and our future. 367,000... That was a
0:17:39 > 0:17:46question about the so-called granny tax. Isn't this an attack on people
0:17:46 > 0:17:49putting away money for their retirement? It is also an attack on
0:17:50 > 0:17:56people are losing income when they are single because of the bedroom
0:17:56 > 0:18:02packs, so if you are elderly, you cannot be a single, and if you are
0:18:02 > 0:18:05poor, you cannot be hungry, because of the tax on fish and chips.
0:18:06 > 0:18:09one a surprise the honourable member that I do not accept his
0:18:10 > 0:18:14analysis. What he and other scaremongers on this issue of bail
0:18:14 > 0:18:22to point out is that over half of those over 65 in Scotland will not
0:18:22 > 0:18:27pay any tax at all. Is the minister not ashamed of his Government's
0:18:27 > 0:18:32decision to reduce tax for the wealthiest Scots whilst at the same
0:18:32 > 0:18:37time penalising pensioners with a tax grab which will see pensioners
0:18:37 > 0:18:41all losing up to �22 per annum. know that the honourable gentleman
0:18:41 > 0:18:45was not a member of this Parliament for most of the 13 years of the
0:18:45 > 0:18:50Labour Government, but most of his colleagues from Scotland were and I
0:18:51 > 0:18:55did not hear any of them calling for an increase in higher income
0:18:55 > 0:19:00tax and a higher rate of income tax. He is quite wrong to say that there
0:19:00 > 0:19:10will be losers in relation to the age-related allowances. There will
0:19:10 > 0:19:16be no cash losers. But this is about fairness and simplification
0:19:16 > 0:19:22then why has it been delayed until the full �10,000 personal allowance
0:19:22 > 0:19:26was announced before this tax on bedrooms? I acknowledge the
0:19:26 > 0:19:30honourable lady, known for speaking up on the issue of the minimum wage,
0:19:30 > 0:19:34and that is why I that have thought she did a welcome the fact that
0:19:34 > 0:19:39this Government is raising the personal allowance to �10,000
0:19:39 > 0:19:43during the course of this Parliament. The air are a lot of
0:19:43 > 0:19:49noisy private conversation sticking place. I would like to hear the
0:19:49 > 0:19:56questions and the answers. Or does it say about the imposing of a
0:19:56 > 0:20:02granny tax on 367,000 Scots, was giving a tax cut to the wealthiest
0:20:02 > 0:20:0714,000 scores? What the honourable gentleman and his colleagues do not
0:20:07 > 0:20:15acknowledge is that this Government has delivered the largest pension
0:20:15 > 0:20:20rise in the last 30 years against the Government of which his party,
0:20:20 > 0:20:27which took forward a pension rise of 75p. We are not going to take
0:20:27 > 0:20:30any lectures on the treatment of pensioners in Scotland. Just how
0:20:30 > 0:20:35out of touch is this Government to think that it is right off their
0:20:35 > 0:20:40that nearly 400,000 Scottish pensioners should pay on average et
0:20:40 > 0:20:45the town's more they're year and tax, just so that's 16,000 top rate
0:20:45 > 0:20:50taxpayers should receive a tax cut of �10,000 a year, on average?
0:20:50 > 0:20:57People retiring next April both face an annual tax rise of �322
0:20:57 > 0:21:02that year because of the granny tax, on top of higher VAT and cuts in
0:21:02 > 0:21:08winter fuel allowance, introduced by this Chancellor. With a wrecker
0:21:08 > 0:21:13of in government like this, it will be no surprise to the minister that
0:21:13 > 0:21:18Tony election strategists are or gloomy about winning NEC's at all
0:21:18 > 0:21:23in Scotland in the next election. What I think is there is that half
0:21:23 > 0:21:28of pensioners over 65 in Scotland will not pay any tax at all. Those
0:21:28 > 0:21:33earning under �10,000 by the end of this Government will be subject to
0:21:33 > 0:21:38a personal allowance of �10,000. What I think is there is that this
0:21:38 > 0:21:45Government has delivered the largest increase in the state
0:21:46 > 0:21:54pension of �270, compared to 75p, or fraud by the previous Government.
0:21:54 > 0:21:58-- offered by. Those living on modest pension incomes have already
0:21:58 > 0:22:03paid a very high price for the financial crisis and have lost the
0:22:03 > 0:22:07value of their savings and investments and base inflation and
0:22:07 > 0:22:12extremely low interest rates. How can the Minister justify this tax
0:22:12 > 0:22:19Brabourne pensioners, whilst cutting taxes for millionaires? --
0:22:19 > 0:22:23this tax grab on pensioners. I will not accept any lectures from the
0:22:23 > 0:22:27honourable lady. She offers pensioners the prospect of breaking
0:22:27 > 0:22:35up the United Kingdom, and no certainty of were pension funding
0:22:35 > 0:22:39would come from. We're confident that people in Scotland will
0:22:39 > 0:22:43continue to support the United Kingdom in any referendum. It is
0:22:43 > 0:22:48the Scottish government that is proposing independence and they
0:22:48 > 0:22:56must answer for the implications of their proposals, including on
0:22:56 > 0:23:00currency matters. This question is about whether the power and would
0:23:00 > 0:23:04continue in an independent Scotland. The could be an independent state
0:23:04 > 0:23:08and would be obliged to join the Euro. He SNP are changing their
0:23:08 > 0:23:13position on what currency they wish to adopt and how they would go
0:23:13 > 0:23:18about it. The SNP needs to answer some Berry had questions about this
0:23:18 > 0:23:28about what it would look like a Scotland were Independent. Whiting
0:23:28 > 0:23:35
0:23:35 > 0:23:42Scotland is better off, in the UK. Does this not sure the incoherence
0:23:42 > 0:23:46of the SNP economic policy? honourable gentleman is entirely
0:23:46 > 0:23:51right that the SNP do not resolve what monetary union with the rest
0:23:52 > 0:23:55of the UK might look like, how they would deal with fiscal rules and
0:23:55 > 0:24:00whether the Bank of England would be the lender of last resort. I
0:24:00 > 0:24:06think in Scotland we deserve some answers to those points. The then
0:24:06 > 0:24:10independent Scotland was to use power in Stirling, would this not
0:24:10 > 0:24:15require conditions that cannot be known now, and this is one of a
0:24:15 > 0:24:20growing number of issues that power unknown, as to how uncertain
0:24:20 > 0:24:24Scotland's future would be, if it left the United Kingdom? My right
0:24:24 > 0:24:32Hon and will friend is right. The SNP ducks the answers to all of
0:24:32 > 0:24:38these hard questions, because they do not have the answers. This is a
0:24:38 > 0:24:42question about what can be done to tackle fuel poverty in Scotland.
0:24:42 > 0:24:45Bringing together the heads of the Big Six energy companies and
0:24:46 > 0:24:51Scottish consumer groups, this led to a supply of vital information to
0:24:51 > 0:24:59improve the application of key policies such as the Worm home
0:24:59 > 0:25:07discount scheme. I am continuing meetings, to review progress. --
0:25:07 > 0:25:12warm home. Do provision of heating oil in the Scottish borders region
0:25:12 > 0:25:16needs reviewing urgently. represent a large, rural
0:25:16 > 0:25:19constituency in the borders, so I share his concerns, but I
0:25:19 > 0:25:22understand that in his own constituency there is some
0:25:22 > 0:25:26innovative initiatives from communities coming together to
0:25:26 > 0:25:33produce heating oil, who are therefore able to negotiate better
0:25:33 > 0:25:39prices with suppliers. Will the Minister press his own Cabinet
0:25:39 > 0:25:43colleagues to look at practical help, for example, by bringing
0:25:44 > 0:25:51forward the pensioners'' winter fuel allowance to allow them to
0:25:52 > 0:25:56fill up their tanks before winter hits, when prices tend to be Laura?
0:25:56 > 0:26:03It is an issue of concern in rural Scotland, as elsewhere, and I would
0:26:03 > 0:26:11be happy to meet the honourable gentleman to discuss his concerns.
0:26:11 > 0:26:21This is a question about what would transfer to Scotland under so-
0:26:21 > 0:26:25
0:26:25 > 0:26:30called Devo-Max would the Secretary of State agree with me that devo-
0:26:30 > 0:26:38max is a wonderful idea for Scotland and we T discuss extending
0:26:38 > 0:26:43this to the regions and localities of England? -- would he. There is a
0:26:43 > 0:26:46lively debate to be had, but the important thing is that we
0:26:46 > 0:26:50acknowledge the important next steps in Scotland, a real proposals
0:26:50 > 0:26:56in the Scotland Bill, due to be getting the consent of the Scottish
0:26:56 > 0:27:00Parliament and their Lordships, next week, giving us the biggest
0:27:00 > 0:27:06development in devolution since 1998. That is all we have time for