03/03/2014

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:00:25. > :00:30.Hello and welcome to Stormont Today. Coming up: one week on and the issue

:00:31. > :00:41.of letters to On the Runs rumbles on. There are major questions about

:00:42. > :00:44.how the scheme was established, the way it has been misrepresented and

:00:45. > :00:47.the way it has led to the current confusion. The education minister

:00:48. > :00:51.makes it clear he won't bear the brunt of any cost rising from the

:00:52. > :00:58.delays in setting up the Education and Skills Authority. It is not I

:00:59. > :01:03.who has incurred this cost but the political failure of some parties

:01:04. > :01:04.and I expect the Executive to cough up for it. Our political

:01:05. > :01:06.and I expect the Executive to cough correspondent Gareth Gordon is here

:01:07. > :01:15.to cast correspondent Gareth Gordon is here

:01:16. > :01:19.threaten resignation and the British Government to apologise. An urgent

:01:20. > :01:23.question tabled by the DUP's Paul Given ensured that the issue of On

:01:24. > :01:31.the Runs and the so-called letters of assurance remained on the agenda

:01:32. > :01:35.today. The On the Runs scheme had no

:01:36. > :01:40.statutory basis and at the point where justice was divulged, there

:01:41. > :01:43.was no provision for the Northern Ireland office to continue with its

:01:44. > :01:48.operation, so can the Minister of eyes if the NIO has usurped the

:01:49. > :01:53.responsibility to this assembly and has the criminal to agency,

:01:54. > :01:58.including the police service and Public Prosecution Service, only

:01:59. > :02:00.complicit in aiding and abetting the Northern Ireland officepos-mac

:02:01. > :02:06.unlawful actions by taking this schema forward? Will seek a

:02:07. > :02:12.declaration from the High Court in determining whose responsibility is

:02:13. > :02:18.this issue? I am afraid he is premature. I am seeking advice on a

:02:19. > :02:25.range of issues. He has correctly highlighted the fact that there was

:02:26. > :02:29.no statutory basis of the scheme and there will be no statutory basis for

:02:30. > :02:32.stopping it but that was the difficulty we are in. I welcome the

:02:33. > :02:49.fact that after some effort, I obtained an apology from the

:02:50. > :02:54.Secretary of State. Clearly, there are many questions and it may be

:02:55. > :02:59.that it will not be possible to have answers until the report comes at

:03:00. > :03:04.the end of May. It is also clear that in this assembly and in my

:03:05. > :03:07.department, we, as yet, unaware of what the details are. We will have

:03:08. > :03:10.to see what we get emerging but it is clear that there are major

:03:11. > :03:14.questions about the way the scheme was established, the way it was

:03:15. > :03:17.carried on and the weight has been misrepresented and the way it has

:03:18. > :03:19.led to the current confusion arising out of the trial.

:03:20. > :03:29.I'm joined now by out of the trial.

:03:30. > :03:35.issue of On the Runs continues to occupy minds here at Stormont? With

:03:36. > :03:38.a different day this could have been had we gone over that precipice last

:03:39. > :03:46.week. The crisis blew up from nothing. We may have got over it

:03:47. > :03:50.last week but the issue certainly has not gone away and it won't go

:03:51. > :03:55.away before the judge led enquiry reports at the end of May and I

:03:56. > :03:59.would not think even then, so no surprise that it did dominate a lot

:04:00. > :04:06.of the proceedings at the Assembly today. It would have done so even

:04:07. > :04:14.more had Peter Robinson carried out that resignation threat. Last week

:04:15. > :04:19.was full of political drama. There is still plenty of mileage left in

:04:20. > :04:24.it when figures like Peter Hain go on the airwaves and add fuel to the

:04:25. > :04:26.fire. The Justice Minister David forward played a prominent role in

:04:27. > :04:32.the drama even though he knew nothing of the OTR letters. What was

:04:33. > :04:39.happening there in that clip we saw was an urgent oral question from the

:04:40. > :04:43.Justice chair, Paul Given, of the DUP. He was asking that since

:04:44. > :04:49.justice powers were developed to the Assembly in 2010, did the NIO even

:04:50. > :04:55.have any legal staters to run this administrative scheme which provided

:04:56. > :05:00.letters of comfort to On the Runs after this date. David Ford said he

:05:01. > :05:07.was obtaining legal advice. He still has not got that advice. We know

:05:08. > :05:13.that there were 38 such letters issued since 2010 but he has not got

:05:14. > :05:18.this advice yet and he was giving away little else. There are also

:05:19. > :05:21.questions that his permanent secretary in the Department of

:05:22. > :05:26.Justice did know about the scheme where as David Ford did not. Many

:05:27. > :05:32.people find that a strange situation. The issue dominated first

:05:33. > :05:44.Minister 's questions as well? First Minister 's questions as well? First

:05:45. > :05:49.advice to determine whether the NIO had the authority to carry on that

:05:50. > :05:54.scheme since 2010. He does not think they did and he says it may be an

:05:55. > :05:58.issue for the judge in the forthcoming enquiry, as well as one

:05:59. > :06:02.for the Attorney-General. Peter Robinson says he intends to raise

:06:03. > :06:06.the issue with both the PSNI undersecretary State, so much more

:06:07. > :06:09.on this to come. As we have been hearing, the fallout

:06:10. > :06:13.dominated questions to the First Minister today. Peter Robinson told

:06:14. > :06:16.the Assembly that the responsibility for On the Runs should have been

:06:17. > :06:23.transferred following the devolution of justice in 2010.

:06:24. > :06:27.The bottom line in this matter is that everybody in the community was

:06:28. > :06:30.aware that there were On the Runs, everybody was aware of the fact that

:06:31. > :06:35.Sinn Fein was pushing for something to be run on this issue will stop

:06:36. > :06:40.everybody was aware that the government had acknowledged there

:06:41. > :06:44.was an anomaly, but when then looks at all of the documentation that is

:06:45. > :06:48.available, both in terms of the minutes of the Policing Board and in

:06:49. > :06:54.terms of the comment in the book of Jonathan Powell, where he

:06:55. > :06:58.indicates, wrongly, but only technically, that they were

:06:59. > :07:01.references made in the joint declaration where there was no

:07:02. > :07:07.reference is made but there was a reference in a separate paper on the

:07:08. > :07:11.On the Runs. Does the first Minister believe there was authority from the

:07:12. > :07:14.Northern Ireland office to maintain the scheme for the On the Runs after

:07:15. > :07:22.the devolution of policing and justice in April 2010? I think this

:07:23. > :07:27.touches on the issue raised by my friend, the Member for East

:07:28. > :07:33.Londonderry area on. I don't claim to be a lawyer but I have to say,

:07:34. > :07:38.even with the fact that I have been a lawmaker for probably the best

:07:39. > :07:41.part of 35 years, looking at the negotiations that were held on

:07:42. > :07:46.policing and justice, it seems clear to me that matters relating to the

:07:47. > :07:59.PSNI, to prosecutions and other matters to suggest that the

:08:00. > :08:04.no legal authority for either the PSNI to be responding in the way

:08:05. > :08:10.that it did, and certainly no authority for the NIO to be issuing

:08:11. > :08:14.letters. That is a matter that the enquiry judge will want to look at

:08:15. > :08:17.all stop it may well be an issue that the Attorney General will want

:08:18. > :08:22.to look at. It will be a matter that we will take up with the PSNI and

:08:23. > :08:28.arrangements have been made, but to have meetings with the PSNI, and the

:08:29. > :08:33.Secretary of State on these issues. The authority does not lie somewhere

:08:34. > :08:36.out there, to float around between the NIO and the devolved

:08:37. > :08:40.Administration as to who wants to take an issue out. Authority is laid

:08:41. > :08:46.down in law as to whose responsibility it is. He will be

:08:47. > :08:49.aware of the anger from the general public and victims of terrorism at

:08:50. > :08:56.the dodgy deal which was struck between Sinn Fein and success of UK

:08:57. > :08:58.governments on runaway terrorists. Given the smug and insensitive

:08:59. > :09:02.response from Sinn Fein on this issue, but indications does he

:09:03. > :09:10.believe that this House for the leaders talks on flags, the past and

:09:11. > :09:16.parades? People are outraged and on a number of different level. They

:09:17. > :09:23.are outraged at the implication of one-sided justice and that damages

:09:24. > :09:29.the whole of the justice system, but circumstances are available for one

:09:30. > :09:33.set of those was once work -- responsible for crimes are not for

:09:34. > :09:38.the others. The fact that the removal by the then government of

:09:39. > :09:41.the legislation dealing with On the Runs was on the basis that Sinn Fein

:09:42. > :09:46.withdrew their support because they did not want soldiers to enjoy the

:09:47. > :09:51.same kind of privileges that terrorists would have. That is an

:09:52. > :09:55.outrage, I think, in any society. The First Minister continuing to

:09:56. > :09:59.voice his anger over letters given to On the Runs. John O'Dowd was also

:10:00. > :10:01.at the dispatch box today. The much anticipated Education and Skills

:10:02. > :10:02.Authority, the single body intended to replace the five regional

:10:03. > :10:14.education boards, to replace the five regional

:10:15. > :10:19.Does the Minister accept that many parents who do not place a high

:10:20. > :10:21.value on schooling had a career in education themselves, but they

:10:22. > :10:26.cannot bring themselves to engage with the education establishment

:10:27. > :10:34.again. What is the department going to do to preach to the script?

:10:35. > :10:41.Parents who had a poor educational experience themselves and do not

:10:42. > :10:44.value education, I have launched an advertising campaign to encourage

:10:45. > :10:49.all parents to become involved in their children's education, to make

:10:50. > :10:55.society realise that education that does not begin and end at the school

:10:56. > :11:01.gates. Despite the highly qualified and motivated staff we have, I left

:11:02. > :11:05.parents and communities are involved, it will not succeed. Can

:11:06. > :11:10.the Minister remind the chamber of the importance of security

:11:11. > :11:15.arrangements in terms of savings to the public purse and educational

:11:16. > :11:21.well-being of our young people? This was initially involves as a method

:11:22. > :11:28.to improve educational outcomes for our young people and to modernise

:11:29. > :11:30.the management layers within our society and therefore to make

:11:31. > :11:36.savings as well. It is estimated that we could have saved ?20 million

:11:37. > :11:40.a year if we had had the political will to move forward. That

:11:41. > :11:49.apparently does not exist. We are now facing this scenario that with

:11:50. > :11:53.councils moving to their new numbers, the education and library

:11:54. > :11:56.boards have to be reconfigured to meet those boundaries. If there is

:11:57. > :12:01.financial consequences for the Department of education as a result

:12:02. > :12:08.of this not going through and I happened to bring forward

:12:09. > :12:12.legislation, I will be going to the Executive and pointing to them that

:12:13. > :12:17.it is not I who have incurred this cost but the political failure of

:12:18. > :12:19.parties around the Executive and I would expect the Executive to cough

:12:20. > :12:32.parties around the Executive and I up for it. It is vitally important

:12:33. > :12:37.parties around the Executive and I of parents. They have a legal

:12:38. > :12:40.responsibility to ensure their children attend school. It is also

:12:41. > :12:51.important that we encourage parents to do so. My department has an

:12:52. > :12:57.education campaign and a policy document detailing what actions can

:12:58. > :13:00.be taken on and also the work of the education and welfare service.

:13:01. > :13:02.The education Minister John O'Dowd urging parents to ensure their

:13:03. > :13:05.children attend school. Meantime, the DUP was calling for greater

:13:06. > :13:08.North-South co-operation and criticising Sinn Fein for not being

:13:09. > :13:11.in favour of it. Usual positions in the Assembly were flipped on their

:13:12. > :13:26.head today as the Enterprise Committee's report on electricity

:13:27. > :13:30.was debated. The electricity grid needs to be strengthened. The

:13:31. > :13:44.planning commission must set an early date to talk about a permanent

:13:45. > :13:54.solution. It is a ridiculous situation. We do not have the

:13:55. > :14:00.infrastructure in place. The electricity prices we have in

:14:01. > :14:08.Northern Ireland dissuade people from investing here. Northern

:14:09. > :14:16.Ireland has lost several major inward investment projects because

:14:17. > :14:20.of this. We need to attract large energy users to Northern Ireland. If

:14:21. > :14:31.they are on the grid, it will reduce costs for others. Repay some of the

:14:32. > :14:44.highest energy costs in Europe. -- we pay.

:14:45. > :14:48.highest energy costs in Europe. -- pleased that everyone agreed to

:14:49. > :14:58.further examine the high energy costs. It is a welcome change of

:14:59. > :15:04.heart to hear a Sinn Fein deputy chairman talk about the high cost of

:15:05. > :15:10.energy and impact it has on people in Northern Ireland. Given the fact

:15:11. > :15:15.that his party has singularly tried to do all that it can to ensure that

:15:16. > :15:20.energy prices are held high in Northern Ireland. The interconnector

:15:21. > :15:28.is held back as a result of the attitude of Sinn Fein when it comes

:15:29. > :15:36.to the exploitation of our own resources. I welcome the call for an

:15:37. > :15:44.early date to be set to reconvene the planning application for the

:15:45. > :15:52.north-South interconnector. A specific route has in identified. As

:15:53. > :16:02.the committee has recognised the importance of the interconnector, I

:16:03. > :16:05.assume it will support the delivery of the interconnector without

:16:06. > :16:12.further delay and I would welcome confirmation of that. Wilber member

:16:13. > :16:29.indicate his support and perhaps his party 's support for a North-South

:16:30. > :16:36.interconnector? I have been trying to speak on behalf of the

:16:37. > :16:43.committee. We are talking about building a interconnector. A road

:16:44. > :16:46.from Londonderry to Dublin. Why can't the two projects be merged?

:16:47. > :17:00.Why can't it be road? It is completely feasible.

:17:01. > :17:10.Phil Flannigan with his proposals for a North-South interconnector.

:17:11. > :17:16.The devolution of powers in Scotland and Wales continue to be discussed.

:17:17. > :17:30.Earlier today, NI21 was discussing this school devolution. You table

:17:31. > :17:46.this motion. It effectively disappeared into the ether. It was

:17:47. > :17:58.quite a czar amendment. We were keen to debate the fact that devolution

:17:59. > :18:04.is changing around the UK and we are behind the curve on this. The

:18:05. > :18:13.concern expressed by other parties was that your idea of discussing

:18:14. > :18:23.these fiscal objectives was to far-reaching. When we posted the

:18:24. > :18:40.amendments, it got through by four votes. There are be concerned about

:18:41. > :18:49.the volatility of things like corporation tax. We need to look at

:18:50. > :18:53.this in a professional manner, like they have done in Scotland and

:18:54. > :18:59.Wales. I just think we are going to be left behind. What did you make of

:19:00. > :19:10.the financial Minister's comments. He

:19:11. > :19:13.the financial Minister's comments. benefits from Northern Ireland. That

:19:14. > :19:19.is what you would want. I was surprised with some of the DUP lines

:19:20. > :19:24.on this. They were saying yes, corporation tax is volatile, but

:19:25. > :19:29.that is all we focused on. They should have said, let us do this

:19:30. > :19:35.properly. Let us set up a commission that would run hard the independence

:19:36. > :19:42.vote in Scotland, but it would run into the next government after the

:19:43. > :19:47.next Westminster election. At the moment, we are locked in a place

:19:48. > :19:50.where we are hoping for the devolution and corporation tax in

:19:51. > :20:00.the autumn, but there is no guarantee it will happen. But isn't

:20:01. > :20:14.at sixes and sevens? You have described the the Assembly as a

:20:15. > :20:21.state of confusion. This is our road map to normalisation. We have spoken

:20:22. > :20:26.about and consistently had these things that you would want to see a

:20:27. > :20:35.government in opposition normalising our politics and taxes. It's in

:20:36. > :20:38.Northern Ireland that should be coming of age and standing for

:20:39. > :20:44.itself. Devolution means we can have fiscal powers and do things around

:20:45. > :20:51.the margins that make a big difference. That is our road map to

:20:52. > :20:56.how you normalise Northern Ireland. The ball is now in Simon Hamilton's

:20:57. > :21:03.court. He has to report back to the Assembly by the autumn. The issue

:21:04. > :21:09.has not gone away. Absolutely not. It has to come back in the autumn.

:21:10. > :21:14.We will be pushing hard on a decision on corporation tax. If that

:21:15. > :21:17.was to go against us, there will be huge pressure to say, if

:21:18. > :21:19.was to go against us, there will be that, what is your plan B?

:21:20. > :21:32.was to go against us, there will be not have a plan B if he does not get

:21:33. > :21:45.corporation tax. Interesting stuff. Thank you for joining us. There were

:21:46. > :21:51.some other important financial matters discussed in the chamber

:21:52. > :22:02.today, including inflation. Over ?1 billion is now collected in the

:22:03. > :22:11.business and commercial rates section. The regional rate

:22:12. > :22:17.represents half of the typical bill. The other half is made up of

:22:18. > :22:28.district rates which are set by individual councils. In order to

:22:29. > :22:34.provide certainty and stability for his Mrs and households, the rates

:22:35. > :22:40.have been partially frozen until 2015. We want to do whatever we can

:22:41. > :22:54.to make sure conditions for economic growth are in place for Northern

:22:55. > :23:01.Ireland. The ten one macro -- the Executive has taken a strong

:23:02. > :23:06.approach to this. We understand that household and businesses are under a

:23:07. > :23:24.lot of pressure. The committee did agree to recommend that there should

:23:25. > :23:29.be a freeze on some of the rates. Town centres are facing

:23:30. > :23:42.difficulties. Town centres are facing

:23:43. > :23:49.real pressure and rates are a major issue for them. I want an assurance

:23:50. > :23:57.from the minister that he is doing all he can to recognise that

:23:58. > :24:03.pressure. The Stormont Department responsible for employment fell to

:24:04. > :24:08.achieve its targets on sickness absence. The employment and learning

:24:09. > :24:15.committee learnt that sickness levels were on a downward trend. At

:24:16. > :24:22.last week 's committee, MLAs were taken through the figures. The trend

:24:23. > :24:44.is now downwards. There was a high of around 19 days in 2001. That had

:24:45. > :24:53.come down to 11.4 days by 2011. We did look at causes of absence, so in

:24:54. > :24:57.general terms within the civil service, it is long-term sickness

:24:58. > :25:03.absence that accounts for the majority of overall sickness

:25:04. > :25:16.absence. Within that mental health is recognised as the main cause. If

:25:17. > :25:20.people are off on long-term sickness and they are suffering from mental

:25:21. > :25:28.health and other issues, we need to be compassionate in how we deal with

:25:29. > :25:40.them. We need to offer whatever help and assistance we can. We need to

:25:41. > :25:46.look at the reasons why people are suffering from these illnesses. I

:25:47. > :25:57.would not disagree with suffering from these illnesses. I

:25:58. > :26:07.what specifically they have done about these absences. I am a little

:26:08. > :26:11.amused. The figures are interesting, but I wonder what the value is if we

:26:12. > :26:17.don't actually have any detail behind them? Is their value in us

:26:18. > :26:22.having this as a session in the committee because we don't know what

:26:23. > :26:26.is driving the figures. Obviously there is an issue because it is

:26:27. > :26:40.costing the public purse a lot of money. I often wonder whether it's

:26:41. > :26:47.self-defeating publishing some of these figures. We do need to monitor

:26:48. > :26:52.sickness levels, I often wonder if certain individuals will view the

:26:53. > :26:57.average figure, realise they are significantly lower than that and

:26:58. > :27:01.feel they can top up their sick days? In terms of the overall

:27:02. > :27:12.numbers that are off on long-term sick, what percentage of those are

:27:13. > :27:22.off on mental health reasons? 29 days is the average lost because of

:27:23. > :27:40.mental health issues. Some have longer absences. Gareth Gordon has

:27:41. > :27:49.joined me again. We heard today the office of the first and deputy first

:27:50. > :27:55.ministers making plans to launch a committee on the sexual orientation

:27:56. > :28:10.debate. committee on the sexual orientation

:28:11. > :28:15.Public consultation is to begin soon and the strategy will follow. It is

:28:16. > :28:37.aimed to promote and environment free from harassment and bullying in

:28:38. > :28:44.terms of homophobia. Finally, a familiar face is due back in

:28:45. > :28:49.Northern Ireland later in the week. Bill Clinton has not been here since

:28:50. > :28:56.2010. Tomorrow he will be in Dublin and Wednesday he attends a ceremony

:28:57. > :29:01.at Queens. He will also be going to Londonderry and I went be surprised

:29:02. > :29:08.if he puts in an appearance here at Stormont. That is it for now. I will

:29:09. > :29:13.be back tomorrow at 11:20pm. Until then, good buy.

:29:14. > :29:16.Nowadays we take the issue of fairness in employment for granted.

:29:17. > :29:19.I have never felt it important to ask anybody's religion

:29:20. > :29:21.when I'm going to employ them as a sheet metal worker.

:29:22. > :29:24.This is the story of fair employment in Northern Ireland.

:29:25. > :29:30.it masked a much greater problem in terms of educational disadvantage.

:29:31. > :29:34.The Fair Employment Act of 1989 changed Northern Ireland's society

:29:35. > :29:37.dramatically. We still have a way to go.

:29:38. > :30:12.But are we on the right track? Absolutely.

:30:13. > :30:14.In January, 1941, just months after the