:00:23. > :00:27.Hello and welcome to Stormont Today where we hear the best from our
:00:27. > :00:30.finest public representatives up here at the Assembly. On the
:00:30. > :00:33.programme tonight: campaigners for Magee College say they need more
:00:33. > :00:43.students, but before the debate gets going the Minister sets the
:00:43. > :00:46.
:00:46. > :00:56.record straight. I have never said that there were 1,000 places based
:00:56. > :00:59.on the resources allocated. I need to put it in contests -- context
:00:59. > :01:04.before people work on the assumption that there are 1,000
:01:04. > :01:06.places. Our guest of the day might see things very differently. He's
:01:07. > :01:10.Magee campaigner Padraig Canavan. And is it a rootless debate or
:01:10. > :01:16.exactly the level of discussion the Assembly should be aiming for? The
:01:16. > :01:18.humble weed comes to the fore at Stormont.
:01:18. > :01:21.A university city - that's what some campaigners want for
:01:21. > :01:25.Londonderry. Today's debate centred on extra student places for Magee
:01:25. > :01:28.to create more graduate,s which in turn would attract firms to invest.
:01:28. > :01:38.One of the main champions of that cause is entreprenuer Padraig
:01:38. > :01:39.
:01:39. > :01:46.Canavan. Her Thank you for joining us. You put your money where your
:01:46. > :01:53.mouth is. What do you think the future holds for Derry? It is quite
:01:53. > :02:03.promising. It will be the City of Culture and we are hoping for a
:02:03. > :02:08.successful year. There is a draft copy for the programme for
:02:08. > :02:14.government and there is not enough in that the sea sustainable
:02:14. > :02:21.businesses. We are keen to see how the city of culture can be
:02:21. > :02:26.maximised. How important are those extra student places at Magee?
:02:26. > :02:31.is pivotal. The debate was focusing on the first step on that which is
:02:31. > :02:39.something we have called for, the City Council has called for, the
:02:39. > :02:43.University has called for, which is 1,000 extra students initially. The
:02:43. > :02:50.plan for the regeneration of the city is building up overall. This
:02:50. > :02:58.is the first step of many steps that will take the city into a new
:02:58. > :03:04.era. Let us have a look at how the debate when in the chamber today.
:03:04. > :03:10.If this is secretary -- Executive is serious about putting the
:03:10. > :03:18.economy at the top of their agenda then they need to tackle the issue
:03:18. > :03:25.with Magee. Mr Speaker, the time for lip-service is over. The people
:03:25. > :03:34.demand action from this Executive. Posters went up all over Derry
:03:34. > :03:38.telling us that Magee's expansion was going to happen. I just want to
:03:38. > :03:46.put it on record before people get carried away that I have never said
:03:46. > :03:56.on the record at any stage that there were 1,000 places available.
:03:56. > :03:56.
:03:56. > :04:02.Not have I said there would be 600. -- nor have I said. A whatever the
:04:02. > :04:12.number is, in the current context he has to make a decision on what
:04:12. > :04:13.
:04:13. > :04:19.would be their impact in the north. If the minister is going to make a
:04:19. > :04:29.decision where he is going to give the maximum delivery, at maximum
:04:29. > :04:29.
:04:29. > :04:35.outcomes in terms of tackling a regional disparity then that is
:04:35. > :04:38.what he should do. It is not an absolute declaration that we keep
:04:38. > :04:44.pushing it more and more people into university when we cannot get
:04:44. > :04:49.them jobs. We should be looking at the real skills and needs of our
:04:49. > :04:55.people. We will not be supporting this motion. They have been calls
:04:55. > :05:05.for me to allocate all the extra places to the University of Ulster
:05:05. > :05:07.
:05:07. > :05:11.and directly to Magee. I do need to consider all the providers. The
:05:12. > :05:16.rationale for university places is to manage demand across the system.
:05:16. > :05:26.This will not be achieved by concentrating additional places in
:05:26. > :05:26.
:05:26. > :05:30.one location. As sympathetic I am - - as I am to the Magee case and the
:05:30. > :05:35.regeneration of Derry, I cannot commit if I do not have the
:05:35. > :05:42.resources. Should the Executive make the resources available to my
:05:42. > :05:48.department then the issue of increased student numbers can be
:05:48. > :05:53.re-examined Magee. I will have no hesitation if the evidence is there
:05:53. > :05:57.of going back and making their case. There is no-one in the House that
:05:57. > :06:03.is opposed to this, but the problem the Minister has is there is not
:06:03. > :06:13.enough money to make that demand and therefore the proposal as it is
:06:13. > :06:17.
:06:17. > :06:23.it is currently worded offers no advantage to other campuses.
:06:23. > :06:27.you disappointed the motion did not go through? Yes. It was a real
:06:27. > :06:37.opportunity to address some of the key economic circumstances in
:06:37. > :06:42.Northern Ireland. The commendable decision to keep the fees are low
:06:42. > :06:48.or -- Low will create pandemonium next year. I read today that by
:06:48. > :06:54.keeping them low, the accessibility of student places in Northern
:06:54. > :06:58.Ireland will increase. It does not change it. There will be many more
:06:58. > :07:01.students that we export to the rest of the UK and not many of them come
:07:02. > :07:06.back again. They will now be faced with no option because of the
:07:06. > :07:10.numbers being restricted to where they are. Yet the thrust of the
:07:10. > :07:18.debate was why give it to Magee when some of the other institutions
:07:18. > :07:24.in Northern Ireland will suffer? They have a point. If you want to
:07:24. > :07:29.take that argument to its logical conclusion, there will be an
:07:29. > :07:37.equivalent number of students in the north-west as there will be in
:07:37. > :07:41.Derry. A tent of the population in Coleraine are in higher education
:07:41. > :07:49.and it is nowhere near that in Derry. By the same logic, there
:07:49. > :07:53.should be about 14,000 students in Derry. He run a business and you
:07:53. > :07:56.know you need to balance the books. Surely you can understand and
:07:56. > :08:01.appreciate the Executive has to do the same thing? Yes, and they
:08:01. > :08:07.should do it. They need to know what their priorities are. To pay
:08:07. > :08:12.for an economy you have to generate wealth, Business, us. The way to do
:08:12. > :08:17.that is to have a strong universities with graduates coming
:08:17. > :08:23.into the job market. They stop businesses of their own and support
:08:23. > :08:33.indigenous businesses. It is a what priority to make a success for
:08:33. > :08:35.
:08:36. > :08:38.economy. We will talk later in the programme. For now, Thank you.
:08:38. > :08:41.Business kicked off this morning with the health minister reporting
:08:41. > :08:43.back to colleagues about a recent north-south meeting. As he took
:08:43. > :08:45.questions he was asked by the SDLP's Conall McDevitt about
:08:46. > :08:52.inquiries into child abuse, something the minister has strong
:08:52. > :08:58.feelings on. I would be opposed to going down the week that has
:08:58. > :09:02.happened in the Republic of Ireland. I would be opposed to the judiciary
:09:02. > :09:09.and legal people getting heavily involved in a process in Northern
:09:09. > :09:13.Ireland to find the truth. I think that in too many cases us a far, in
:09:13. > :09:18.terms of other public inquiries, for example, they had been taken
:09:18. > :09:23.over, they have been dominated by the barristers and the solicitors,
:09:23. > :09:31.who had made excessive sums of money out of other people's misery.
:09:31. > :09:35.We do not need and inquiry that draws might officials and my staff
:09:35. > :09:42.away from important work they are doing. To go after the truth of the
:09:42. > :09:46.past at the price looking after children today it is not a price I
:09:46. > :09:53.want this Assembly on my department to be paying. It is important we do
:09:53. > :09:57.not get dragged into a long judicial inquiry where staff
:09:57. > :10:02.involved in child protection have to spend inordinate amount of time
:10:02. > :10:07.dealing with that as opposed to protecting children there currently
:10:07. > :10:17.need protecting. On to Question Time and first up was interim
:10:17. > :10:18.
:10:18. > :10:22.deputy minister wearing his education minister's hat. I keep
:10:22. > :10:27.hearing words that we are making progress and a decision will be
:10:27. > :10:35.announced shortly. Can the Minister tell us when he expects the
:10:35. > :10:45.announcement to beat made and what will the total cost be to set up
:10:45. > :10:46.
:10:46. > :10:56.that body? -- to be made. The costs are rising and that is keeping me
:10:56. > :11:06.
:11:06. > :11:12.focused. ESA is important and that is why the spend was made.
:11:12. > :11:17.Legislation was at an advanced age but it was stalled and stop. I have
:11:17. > :11:27.never said we will make a decision shortly. I have said we are
:11:27. > :11:34.
:11:34. > :11:43.required to make a decision. I am acutely aware off what is happening
:11:43. > :11:49.with the ESA project. Could I thank the Minister for his answer, but in
:11:49. > :11:53.order to progress ESA and establish it, it is necessary to encourage
:11:53. > :11:57.and bring about political consensus. One is the Minister going to
:11:57. > :12:05.convene a meeting of all the political parties to thrash out
:12:05. > :12:09.this issue and to establish you say? Mr Speaker, I did not realise
:12:09. > :12:16.I was dealing with such a Shaikh group of individuals in this
:12:16. > :12:21.Assembly. My door is open to any party or any individual MLA to
:12:21. > :12:28.discuss any matter. I have not refused talks with regards this
:12:28. > :12:34.issue. Previous to be establishment of the current Executive it was
:12:34. > :12:41.agreed then that parties should come forward with parties regarding
:12:41. > :12:46.ESA. I am aware of some public responses and some parties have
:12:46. > :12:56.indicated their views around ESA, but I am still awaiting documents
:12:56. > :13:02.
:13:02. > :13:09.We seem to be in areas of more scientific interest as one member
:13:09. > :13:15.made cliff. When they were first introduced, there was an enormous
:13:15. > :13:20.opposition from land owners and farmers. I cannot recall a time
:13:20. > :13:30.when there was a notice put up to keep officials a way from their
:13:30. > :13:30.
:13:30. > :13:36.land. But given that these concerns, has been minister convinced that he
:13:36. > :13:40.has done everything to preserve the best and the environment? Everybody
:13:40. > :13:48.will be treated equally and they will not be a disadvantage for
:13:48. > :13:52.anyone in relationship to developments. I do can care that
:13:53. > :13:57.looking beyond this particular matter, part of the character of
:13:57. > :14:06.the society has been resistance to change. But there has been many
:14:06. > :14:10.other aspects of experience. It is often had too high a price and too
:14:10. > :14:16.high a cost. I think there is a more settled abuse in relation to
:14:16. > :14:23.the importance of -- more settled matter in relation to the
:14:23. > :14:28.importance of these matters. race for deputy is simpler with the
:14:28. > :14:35.withdrawal. Dolores Kelly will take the No. 2 spot and she told me how
:14:35. > :14:40.she felt about that area today. think it is a great honour to be
:14:40. > :14:46.nominated in the first instance. I feel very privileged to get that
:14:46. > :14:53.endorsement across the many branches. Now that I have got a
:14:53. > :14:58.clear run, I want to pay tribute to my contender who has stepped aside.
:14:58. > :15:03.I feel very privileged and very committed to ensuring that the
:15:03. > :15:07.party and the fortunes of the party are restored in the dock. Brian
:15:07. > :15:13.Feeney said last night that the SDLP is finished if they do not get
:15:13. > :15:19.his leadership race right, if they did not pick the right person.
:15:19. > :15:24.has made comments before. But the fortunes of the party have had
:15:24. > :15:30.predictions in the past that have been proven wrong. But a a sense
:15:30. > :15:35.among the membership at we do need to make the right decision and get
:15:35. > :15:41.it right. It is time to work as A- team and to get the priorities
:15:41. > :15:46.right and get everybody in the same direction. It is an important
:15:46. > :15:53.decision in November. What is your assessment of what has gone wrong
:15:53. > :15:58.in terms of the party's fortunes at the ballot box? I think they are
:15:58. > :16:02.historic. We have had concerns about how the British and Irish
:16:02. > :16:06.governments treated at the party and we got the compromise with the
:16:06. > :16:14.Good Friday Agreement and these institutions have stabilised. But I
:16:14. > :16:19.think we have also got an emphasis on us as a party connecting with
:16:19. > :16:26.the concerns of the electorate. We understand the numbers turning out
:16:26. > :16:30.have been falling. That is a feature across western democracy.
:16:30. > :16:35.It is a challenge for all political parties but particularly the SDLP.
:16:35. > :16:42.I think it is about confidence. We must stop looking over our
:16:42. > :16:46.shoulders and set our stall and what our vision is for be people in
:16:46. > :16:52.the community we represent. We hope that will reflect the concerns of
:16:52. > :16:57.these people. Will you have a ministerial portfolio soon? I do
:16:57. > :17:03.not think that is anything of any immediate concern. Alex Attwood has
:17:03. > :17:09.done a very fine job and he has a very quickly grasped a portfolio of
:17:10. > :17:15.the Environment. I did not see any necessity for any change any time
:17:15. > :17:20.since. Is the party in danger of tearing itself apart given be
:17:20. > :17:26.people running are all reasonably high profile in their positions?
:17:26. > :17:31.The candidates and myself and the wider membership understand that we
:17:31. > :17:36.have to have 18 approach. We have to unite behind the leadership. I
:17:36. > :17:41.did not see the party tearing itself apart. I think it is healthy
:17:41. > :17:46.to have these democratic debate and principles. That is unlike other
:17:46. > :17:52.parties which are running on the basis of dictatorships. We have
:17:52. > :17:56.seldom if ever had elections of their leadership. Last year it was
:17:56. > :18:00.high hedges but today it was about weeds. The green-fingered in the
:18:00. > :18:06.chamber would try to get to the good of the problem of overgrown
:18:06. > :18:12.paths and roads. It might sound trivial but millions of pounds had
:18:12. > :18:17.been paid out for trips and slips. It was just a plant growing in the
:18:17. > :18:24.wrong place, maybe. There does seem to be an opinion that this question
:18:24. > :18:30.has been put in the wrong place. To be honest, I can understand some of
:18:30. > :18:36.the reasoning behind that. But I have got the benefit of being
:18:36. > :18:41.present when the matter was raised initially. I feel bound to say
:18:41. > :18:45.without any hint of criticism but of a dejectedly stating the tax,
:18:45. > :18:51.but had it been more effectively dealt with on that occasion, we
:18:51. > :18:59.might not have been here today. It might be an inconvenience. But
:18:59. > :19:04.people actually do worry about weeds on the side of the road.
:19:04. > :19:06.appreciate his efforts to justify this debate. We are back for six
:19:06. > :19:12.weeks and we have not had any legislation brought before this
:19:12. > :19:16.house. We have got a draft programme that does not make one
:19:16. > :19:20.commitment to one piece of legislation. With the greatest
:19:20. > :19:26.respect, is is not more about covering up the inadequacies rather
:19:26. > :19:32.than addressing the problems? able to advise the House that
:19:32. > :19:34.procedures are already well in hand to ensure the issues that have
:19:34. > :19:41.resulted in a late start to the control element of the contract
:19:41. > :19:44.this year will not be repeated next season. We will increase the
:19:45. > :19:52.manpower and provide additional training for opera tickets.
:19:52. > :19:58.Additional machinery will also be available. -- operatives. I have
:19:58. > :20:03.mentioned the controlling of weed growth and the priorities in terms
:20:03. > :20:11.of financial allegations given to this operation. Can I acknowledge
:20:11. > :20:17.that the service delivery was not satisfactory this year? I apologise
:20:17. > :20:24.for that. Jimmy Spratt proposed the motion and he joins us now. Was it
:20:24. > :20:32.a waste of time? It was not a waste of time. The Minister apologise, as
:20:32. > :20:35.we have just heard. The issues that I wanted to raise in relation to
:20:35. > :20:40.that procurement process which appears to has failed, the minister
:20:40. > :20:47.gave some details about that. I think we have got other issues that
:20:47. > :20:51.he will respond to the in due course. The whole fiasco has cost
:20:51. > :20:58.the Department additional money in terms of overtime and all the rest.
:20:58. > :21:02.It has been an unsightly problem. What about the �4 million figure?
:21:02. > :21:08.We are talking back foot paths with weeds growing. That is a
:21:08. > :21:18.considerable figure considering the Times. It is a very considerable
:21:18. > :21:19.
:21:19. > :21:28.vigour. -- figure. It is a substantial amount and it is
:21:28. > :21:33.connected with it slip roads. I hope that this can be sorted out.
:21:33. > :21:42.Some people have said it demonstrates the enacted with his -
:21:42. > :21:47.- inadequacies of the Assembly... We are looking at massive public
:21:47. > :21:53.sector cutbacks. People are worried about more than weeds growing on
:21:53. > :21:58.the roads. We have also got an issue that people have raised. I
:21:58. > :22:05.have raised it on a bay leaf -- daily basis as I walk the streets
:22:05. > :22:11.of Belfast. It is an issue that does actually get into the minds of
:22:11. > :22:17.people and they do have pride in their areas. Some of the local
:22:17. > :22:23.councils have put a lot of work into this problem. When people come
:22:23. > :22:28.out, they find the area is unsightly with weeds. Councils are
:22:28. > :22:34.going down the tubes, if you like. Should the Assembly spent time
:22:34. > :22:39.discussing problems like this? think this is the business of the
:22:39. > :22:47.hygiene factor but it should never get to this level. When it is not
:22:47. > :22:50.right, it should be dealt more quickly -- dealt with more quickly.
:22:50. > :22:55.It was interesting looking at the breakdown of the people in the
:22:55. > :23:01.chamber. Were we trying to appeal to the garden centres? I was
:23:01. > :23:04.looking for answers and I think we got some answers today. The
:23:04. > :23:11.minister has told us it will not happen again and I take his word on
:23:11. > :23:14.that. The test will come next year and I hope that has been resolved.
:23:15. > :23:19.If you have got tickets for the London Olympics and are thinking of
:23:19. > :23:23.selling them, you might want to think again. The Assembly has
:23:23. > :23:29.agreed to increase the fines or ticket touting of the Olympic and
:23:29. > :23:36.Paralympic Games to �20,000. It is to keep Northern Ireland in line
:23:36. > :23:42.with the rest of the UK, as David Ford explained. The current maximum
:23:42. > :23:48.penalty is �5,000. The Department of Culture Media and Sport wish to
:23:48. > :23:54.increase the maximum fine to �20,000 across the UK. We are
:23:54. > :24:02.concerned about the lower potential oxide �1,000, given the likelihood
:24:02. > :24:06.of -- of �5,000, giving the likelihood of the problems. This
:24:06. > :24:12.makes the likelihood of touting materially higher than other events.
:24:12. > :24:15.This offers a lucrative revenue to criminals. It is important to
:24:15. > :24:19.frustrate the money-making activities of criminals and prevent
:24:20. > :24:24.them seeking to use in Northern Ireland as a backdoor opportunity.
:24:24. > :24:29.I would not wish the penalty in Northern Ireland to be any lower
:24:29. > :24:32.than that in England, Wales or Scotland. The Scottish government
:24:32. > :24:38.is proposing to have the Bill to increase the penalty likewise in
:24:38. > :24:41.Scotland. We have been warned. The long awaited reduction in local
:24:42. > :24:47.councils has not been straightforward set up. It looks
:24:47. > :24:51.like nothing has changed. Alex Attwood said he was not consulted
:24:51. > :24:57.on a day that he believes the DUP and Sinn Fein have struck on a deal
:24:57. > :25:05.on reducing councils from 26-11-. Mark Devonport gave me the
:25:05. > :25:09.background to be issued. At an executive meeting we had an
:25:09. > :25:13.announcement about a number of initiatives, including an agreement
:25:13. > :25:19.that they reached about local councils. It was essentially going
:25:19. > :25:23.back to a compromise before in relation to previous councils. But
:25:23. > :25:28.in an interview on The Politics Show, the First Minister made it
:25:28. > :25:36.clear that this was a Sinn Fein and DUP initiative and not from the
:25:36. > :25:39.Environment Department. We have got over the line. We have informed the
:25:40. > :25:44.Environment Minister of our position. He can bring the paper
:25:44. > :25:52.forward. Ultimately, if he does not, we can bring the paper forward
:25:52. > :25:58.ourselves. And it came up today in question time? Yes. When we look at
:25:58. > :26:02.possible shake-up, Alex Attwood made it clear that he had not heard
:26:02. > :26:06.any formal understanding and that he was looking forward to seeing it
:26:06. > :26:12.between Sinn Fein and the DUP. I caught up with him and asked him if
:26:12. > :26:19.he had been consulted at all before this deal was announced. I have not
:26:19. > :26:24.but they did say that they were afforded me a paper. The best part
:26:24. > :26:29.of two weeks later, I have not seem that paper. I look forward Tim
:26:29. > :26:33.interrogating them and making the judgment about what they say and
:26:33. > :26:37.what others say is the best way forward. This is a once in a
:26:37. > :26:42.lifetime opportunity to get this right. We need to get this right
:26:42. > :26:46.and make certain that the lego government is moving forward.
:26:46. > :26:51.you surprised, given that this is part of your ministerial brief and
:26:51. > :26:54.they did not consult you before? Sometimes the character of this
:26:54. > :27:00.government is that a couple of parties decide what is best for
:27:00. > :27:03.everybody else. I did not think that is healthy. But I look forward
:27:03. > :27:07.to seeing the level of understanding between the First
:27:07. > :27:11.Minister and the Deputy First Minister. I will make a judgement
:27:11. > :27:15.about the right way to go forward. This has been about numbers from
:27:15. > :27:22.the very beginning and it still appears to be about numbers.
:27:22. > :27:28.have got a discrepancy between what the DUP and Sinn Fein are saying.
:27:28. > :27:33.They had previously hatched an agreement. The Environment Minister
:27:33. > :27:36.is saying that he still thinks it is possibly the best outcome to
:27:36. > :27:42.have a 15 councils. He says everybody has got to take a step
:27:43. > :27:45.back and look at the progress with sharing services and the recent
:27:45. > :27:50.proposals at Westminster constituency boundaries which he
:27:50. > :27:55.things could affect the shake up of. Disappointments today in terms of
:27:55. > :28:01.the motion but what should the government be doing to regenerate
:28:01. > :28:07.the economy? We have got a number of things. I think we should have
:28:07. > :28:10.increased participation and increased graduate. We should keep
:28:10. > :28:17.existing graduates in Northern Ireland. We should look at
:28:17. > :28:21.graduates from elsewhere. It is a critical part of a growing economy.
:28:21. > :28:31.I am a great supporter of the corporation tax. I think that will
:28:31. > :28:34.attract inward investment. The -- this can only work together if we