:00:24. > :00:28.Hello, and welcome to the first programme in the new series of
:00:28. > :00:31.Stormont Today. And after the summer break it didn't take our
:00:31. > :00:33.MLAs long to get back to business. Recent events in north Belfast
:00:34. > :00:35.occupied the mind of the SDLP leader Alasdair McDonnell who
:00:36. > :00:45.accused the Social Development Minister, Nelson McCausland, of
:00:46. > :00:46.
:00:46. > :00:50.breaching his Ministerial Pledge of Office. During recent weeks, the
:00:50. > :00:57.reactions of the DSD Minister to events in North Belfast have
:00:57. > :01:00.brought this House into serious disrepute by failing to give - the
:01:00. > :01:04.Minister failed to give full support to the upholding of law and
:01:04. > :01:11.order, and to my mind Minister Nelson McCausland has clearly
:01:11. > :01:14.reached article 1.4 and 1.5 of the Ministerial Pledge of Office.
:01:14. > :01:18.Money matters came to the fore when the former economics teacher Sammy
:01:18. > :01:23.Wilson used the VAT debate to serve up a financial lesson. One of the
:01:23. > :01:28.central precepts that you've always got to remember is cerebsu parabus
:01:28. > :01:34.all other things being equal, and of course, all other things don't
:01:34. > :01:42.stay equal because we're living and working in this economy. Sammy
:01:42. > :01:47.Wilson demonstrating that Latin and economics can mix. Our political
:01:47. > :01:52.reporter Stephen Walker is with me in the studio. There were further
:01:52. > :01:54.details released about the development of the Maze site and
:01:54. > :02:00.the people who'll be responsible for driving that process on. That's
:02:00. > :02:03.right. The Maze closed 12 years ago, and since then it has been a
:02:03. > :02:05.subject of controversy. Today we have the names of 11 people who
:02:05. > :02:09.have agreed to sit on this corporation. The chairman will be
:02:09. > :02:13.Terrance Brannigan, a well-known businessman, chairman of Glentorn
:02:13. > :02:19.football club and in the past he has been involved with the CBI.
:02:19. > :02:22.Interestingly, he's a member of the DUP. His party membership was
:02:22. > :02:27.raised by some Stormont sources this morning as if it was going to
:02:27. > :02:30.be an issue but when Martin McGuinness came out he said it
:02:31. > :02:33.wasn't. Like-wise, the DUP didn't object when it became clear a
:02:33. > :02:38.former Sinn Fein councillor, Joe O'Donnell, would be on the board.
:02:38. > :02:43.On the board as well is a former police Assistant Chief Constable.
:02:43. > :02:49.We've now got the names. Suppose this really marks another staging
:02:49. > :02:51.post in this entire proposal. had the SDLP leader Dr Alasdair
:02:51. > :02:55.McDonnell has accused Nelson McCausland of breaching the
:02:55. > :02:59.Ministerial Code. That's right. Obviously, recent events in North
:02:59. > :03:02.Belfast very much to the fore in Alasdair McDonnell's mind, and this
:03:02. > :03:05.relates to these events that were taking place in North Belfast
:03:05. > :03:10.across the summer, and he brought this issue to the floor of the
:03:10. > :03:15.Assembly, and this is what Alasdair McDonnell had to say. The Minister
:03:15. > :03:21.failed to give full support to the upholding of law and order, and to
:03:21. > :03:25.my mind, Minister Nelson McCausland has clearly breached Article 1.4
:03:25. > :03:33.and 1.5 of the Ministerial Pledge of Office. Mr Speaker, is there any
:03:33. > :03:37.way in which you can take some action and sort this situation out?
:03:37. > :03:45.I rule, Mr Speaker, I have no role in deciding whether a pledge of
:03:45. > :03:48.office by any particular Minister, which even includes the Ministerial
:03:48. > :03:54.Code of the conduct has been breached - a member will know these
:03:54. > :03:57.are complex issues. They are difficult issues, but certainly, as
:03:57. > :04:02.Speaker, I have no role whatsoever, but I'll be keen, certainly, to
:04:02. > :04:06.talk to the member outside the chamber on the complex issues on
:04:07. > :04:10.whether a Minister has broken a pledge of office or his role as a
:04:10. > :04:13.Minister within the executive. we know what Nelson McCausland
:04:13. > :04:18.makes of that accusation? Well, my understanding is that he's quite
:04:18. > :04:22.relaxed about all this. He contends that he did not break the
:04:22. > :04:27.Ministerial Code. He says he did not endorse civil disobedience. The
:04:27. > :04:31.DUP say their focus is not on debating, in their words, the
:04:31. > :04:34.minutiae of all of this, but they say their focus is on finding a
:04:34. > :04:41.resolution to the entire parading issue. For now, thank you very much.
:04:41. > :04:43.Tourism dominated enterprise questions. The Minister Arlene
:04:43. > :04:46.Foster being quizzed on everything from golfing visitors to
:04:46. > :04:51.genealogical tourists. But first the Minister was asked about access
:04:51. > :04:54.to high-speed broadband and mobile phone coverage in rural areas.
:04:54. > :04:59.Building on its previous investments, my department is
:04:59. > :05:01.currently scoping two projects aimed at further enhancing the
:05:01. > :05:07.region's telecommunications capabilities by ensuring access to
:05:07. > :05:13.broadband services of at least two megabits per second to all premises
:05:13. > :05:18.and ill proving access to 3G mobile services. Under the proposed 3G
:05:18. > :05:23.mobile project my department aims to reduce the premises in Northern
:05:23. > :05:30.Ireland with no conch from any operator from the current 11 of
:05:30. > :05:34.11.7% to at least the UK average of .9%. Could I thank the Minister for
:05:34. > :05:39.Her answer, and I'm well aware there has been a lot of money
:05:39. > :05:45.invested in broadband, but Minister, could I ask if you intend to carry
:05:45. > :05:49.out an assessment on those firms that have received money to provide
:05:49. > :05:52.broadband in rural Ireland? Because clearly, it's not happening, and
:05:52. > :05:56.know some of the firms I have dealt with - and I would like an
:05:56. > :06:01.assessment of that also, could you indicate how much more money is
:06:01. > :06:03.there available to be allocated to address this in rural broadband?
:06:03. > :06:06.Any company that receives Government money are always
:06:06. > :06:09.assessed after the end of the contract to see if they have
:06:09. > :06:14.delivered in respect of the targets that were set in the terms of
:06:14. > :06:20.reference, and that's exactly what will happen if the member is
:06:20. > :06:25.referring to the sixth call in - for on-wave as has happened with
:06:25. > :06:29.all the other companies as well. We will continue to fill that gap. The
:06:29. > :06:35.member knows that we have been working very hard in respect of
:06:35. > :06:40.this. In its latest Ofcom research, it estimates that 94% of households
:06:40. > :06:44.could access a super-fast broadband service of 30 megabit per second or
:06:44. > :06:48.better, and I think it's important that we benchmark that against
:06:48. > :06:52.what's happening in the Republic of Ireland, where DCNR and Dublin
:06:52. > :06:56.estimate just over 20% of households currently have access of
:06:56. > :06:59.a service of 10 megabits, so things are a lot better in Northern
:06:59. > :07:02.Ireland in respect of broadband access that doesn't take away from
:07:02. > :07:07.the fact that there's more that we can and will be doing in the future.
:07:07. > :07:12.I am quite happy to say to the member that we are accessing money
:07:12. > :07:16.from the UK in respect of broadband, but unfortunately because we were
:07:16. > :07:22.so far ahead of other parts of the UK, we're now being penalised in
:07:22. > :07:25.that respect of that, and we're not getting as much money as I believe
:07:26. > :07:29.we should we should be getting to follow up with these projects.
:07:29. > :07:33.However, we'll still keep fighting that battle. There has been a lot
:07:33. > :07:36.achieved today in respect of broadband, but there's still more
:07:36. > :07:38.to do. There is potential to develop geneological tourism
:07:38. > :07:42.through the promotion of Ulster Scots particularly in the United
:07:42. > :07:45.States, where we have targeted this specific segment through tourism
:07:45. > :07:50.Ireland's extensive marketing programme. I also recently launched
:07:50. > :07:54.a free app that'll help Northern Ireland harness the tourism
:07:54. > :07:58.potential of the 30 million people worldwide who have Ulster Scots
:07:58. > :08:04.roots. Our tourism bodies continue to engage with the Ulster
:08:04. > :08:08.Historical Foundation, the Ulster Agency, the Orange Order and other
:08:08. > :08:12.bodies in Northern Ireland with a view to ensuring all aspects of
:08:12. > :08:16.their culture and heritage are reflecting. Bearing in mind an
:08:16. > :08:19.unemployment rate of around 66,000 people out of work, does the
:08:19. > :08:23.Minister believe there are other measures she can take currently in
:08:23. > :08:26.respect of any anticipation of a reduction in corporation tax which
:08:26. > :08:29.is looking very slow, when she thinks she can put other measures
:08:29. > :08:35.in place, and how much of a reduction does she anticipate
:08:35. > :08:39.seeing in that 66,000 unemployed? Well, if I knew how much of a
:08:39. > :08:43.reduction was happening to the unemployment register, I would have
:08:43. > :08:47.a crystal ball in front of me, Mr Deputy Speaker. We all want to see
:08:47. > :08:51.the reduction of unemployment. This House are all united in relation to
:08:51. > :08:54.that and can I say to the member, Invest Northern Ireland have
:08:54. > :08:58.informed me this week of a comprehensive plan they have to
:08:58. > :09:03.work with a lot of our indigenous companies, and right across the UK,
:09:03. > :09:06.in particular, we have seen a flattening out, indeed, a
:09:06. > :09:10.depression - and going back into recession over this past number of
:09:10. > :09:14.months, and there is a great need to work with our local firms to try
:09:14. > :09:19.to give them the capacity to employ more people, and I am pleased to
:09:19. > :09:22.say that we have seen that right across Northern Ireland with small
:09:22. > :09:26.companies who are increasing their employment, and I'm very pleased to
:09:26. > :09:30.say that we're being able to support them. Can I ask her that in
:09:30. > :09:35.the context of promoting jobs and golf tourism in Northern Ireland to
:09:35. > :09:39.take account of the views of a number of traders who had expressed
:09:39. > :09:42.concern that the spectators when they arrive and go into the
:09:42. > :09:47.tournament unfortunately were unable to avail of many of the
:09:47. > :09:50.sights and shops of Portrush until the tournament closed to take
:09:50. > :09:54.account of that when negotiating and dealing with incoming tour
:09:54. > :09:58.operators to promote all of Northern Ireland and its tourist
:09:58. > :10:01.infrastructure when events like that are on. I thank the member for
:10:01. > :10:07.his supplemental question. Of course, that issue has been raised
:10:07. > :10:12.with me before by him and indeed by others. I think the key to all of
:10:12. > :10:17.this was that the Irish Open was a phenomenal success. I recognise for
:10:17. > :10:20.some of the traders during the actual tournament they didn't get
:10:20. > :10:24.what the retail experience that they thought they were going to
:10:24. > :10:28.have. But I do have to say to the member that since then Portrush has
:10:28. > :10:32.experienced a renewal - a revival, if you like, and a lot of people
:10:32. > :10:36.have said to me as they have gone to Portrush over the summer that
:10:36. > :10:41.they really think that the place has been transformed, and a lot of
:10:41. > :10:46.work went into the area before the Irish Open, and I think the legacy
:10:46. > :10:50.will be people visiting Portrush now and, rightly so, Mr Deputy
:10:50. > :10:53.Speaker, I did spend some of my summer holiday in Portrush on the
:10:53. > :10:56.north coast, and it was a very, very enjoyable experience, but the
:10:56. > :11:01.important thing is, the fact that we were able to bring record crowds
:11:01. > :11:05.into Northern Ireland for the Irish Open - and in fact, it was double
:11:05. > :11:07.the attendance of the Scottish Open. I think that puts it into context.
:11:07. > :11:09.The Enterprise Minister, Arlene Foster, flying the flag for
:11:09. > :11:12.Portrush. Now, talking about tourism, should Northern Ireland
:11:12. > :11:15.get a reduced rate of VAT to help some sectors of the industry here?
:11:15. > :11:19.DUP members are calling for the Executive to press the Treasury to
:11:19. > :11:25.do just that. Here's one of the idea's proposers, the DUP's Simon
:11:25. > :11:29.Hamilton. There is a demand to look at things
:11:29. > :11:35.that can be done to assist the sector. One suggested solution is
:11:35. > :11:39.to reduce the rate of VAT for the sector and some tourism-related
:11:39. > :11:43.services. This is an issue that's been pushed by the likes of the
:11:43. > :11:46.pubs of Ulster, by the hotel sector and indeed by others, and I have
:11:46. > :11:51.been encouraged by the contacts I have had over the last number of
:11:51. > :11:55.days from people from the restaurant sector, from pubs and
:11:55. > :12:00.from hotels. The context of this is there was a unanimous decision
:12:00. > :12:06.taken by all 27 EU Finance Ministers who used - were just for
:12:06. > :12:13.VAT in restaurants and catering. Hotels have been able to reduce
:12:13. > :12:16.their VAT - our Government have been able to reduce VAT since 1975.
:12:16. > :12:20.Those who would say that our Government at Westminster aren't
:12:20. > :12:23.interested in this subject - our Government at Westminster
:12:23. > :12:27.representatives in the EU voted for this. If they think it's good for
:12:27. > :12:33.the whole of the EU, then you would think they might be interested in
:12:33. > :12:36.it for the UK itself. 21 states have lower VAT for hotels, and some
:12:36. > :12:40.13 have availed of this ability to reduce for the hospitality sector
:12:40. > :12:46.and have a lower VAT for food. The simple question is, why would so
:12:46. > :12:50.many EU member states pursue a policy of lower VAT for hospitality
:12:50. > :12:53.and tourism-related services if indeed it didn't work and have a
:12:53. > :12:58.positive impact on their economy? You look at Germany - they have 7%
:12:58. > :13:01.for food and hotels. French have 5.5% for restaurants and hotels.
:13:01. > :13:05.They have seen an increased number of apprenticeship, in the number of
:13:05. > :13:09.jobs. They have seen wages go up as well and staff turnover go down,
:13:09. > :13:15.but we don't have to go do France, Germany or any of the mainland
:13:15. > :13:18.European countries to see the benefit of a reduced benefit of a
:13:18. > :13:24.reduced VAT to the hospitality sector, we just need to look south
:13:24. > :13:31.of the border to see the experience they have had. It has been
:13:31. > :13:35.estimated a 5.5% decrease in VAT could increase jobs in the
:13:35. > :13:38.hospitality sector. I note caution. In taking this forward, the
:13:38. > :13:41.Assembly and Executive must think carefully which direction the
:13:41. > :13:44.policy should be developed. We shouldn't be seeking a race to the
:13:44. > :13:48.bottom against the Government in Dublin. We should instead be
:13:48. > :13:53.seeking further and deeper cooperation on this and other
:13:53. > :13:56.tourism-related matters with the Government in the rest of the
:13:56. > :14:01.island. I believe while this is very welcome. It's very topical and
:14:01. > :14:06.has a lot of support from the hospitality industry, it does lack
:14:06. > :14:11.ambition and demonstrate lax of confidence among the proposers. It
:14:11. > :14:15.lacks ambition in it merely seeks to lobby the British Treasury to
:14:15. > :14:22.act on behalf of our businesses and tourism sector. I can only guess
:14:22. > :14:28.this is due to the lack of our proposalers to make decisions. What
:14:28. > :14:31.we should be doing is being more ambitious. We need to clearly set
:14:31. > :14:41.forward the argument to transfer relevant fiscal powers so this
:14:41. > :14:41.
:14:41. > :14:46.chamber could make decision and not What is the impact of this? Many
:14:46. > :14:53.people have asked this. Do we know it would have a positive a impact?
:14:53. > :14:57.I suppose with all of these things, when the you change and economic
:14:57. > :15:02.variable, whether it is a tax rate or spending or whatever, and there
:15:02. > :15:07.are a lot of other things happening in the economy, it is not always
:15:07. > :15:12.possible to identify the cause and effect for the size of the effect.
:15:12. > :15:19.But what we do know is that a number of governments across Europe
:15:19. > :15:24.have changed the rate of Zainab on tourist product. -- of VAT. And
:15:24. > :15:34.there has been a change. Let me give you an example. In France, the
:15:34. > :15:41.rate was changed in July 2009 to 5.5% and the economic statistics
:15:41. > :15:46.indicate that as a result, probably about 15,000 bankruptcy is were
:15:46. > :15:54.avoided, 30,000 job losses were avoided, 35,000 apprenticeships
:15:54. > :15:59.were created, and 25,000 jobs were created in 2010. You could argue
:15:59. > :16:05.there were other factors which influenced those. But the change in
:16:05. > :16:10.the tax rate was bound to have contributed to those particular
:16:10. > :16:16.statistics. And we could go on and give examples in Germany, the Irish
:16:16. > :16:23.Republic, etc. It is not an exact science as -- and as I ate used to
:16:23. > :16:28.teach economics, one of the central precepts is all other things being
:16:28. > :16:35.equal and of course all other things do not state the court. We
:16:35. > :16:40.are living and working in a dynamic economy. -- things do not state be
:16:41. > :16:48.cold. But evidence shows there is a positive effect. Can you measure
:16:48. > :16:53.it? Probably not. The calls in this Assembly adding to the debate going
:16:53. > :16:58.on within the Coalition government and outside, this call today is it
:16:58. > :17:01.worth while call. It adds to the debate.
:17:01. > :17:04.The Finance Minister, Sammy Wilson. Well, one of the proposers of the
:17:04. > :17:07.VAT motion is the DUP's David McIveen, and he joins me now.
:17:07. > :17:15.Interesting idea, but not likely to cut much ice with Treasury
:17:15. > :17:19.officials, surely? I think this is going to be a
:17:19. > :17:24.process. If Northern Ireland can take the lead on this issue, I am
:17:24. > :17:28.very confident that other devolved assemblies or take a similar
:17:28. > :17:32.opinion and a united approach will put pressure which on the Treasury.
:17:32. > :17:37.You think this will be a change for everybody across the UK, not just
:17:37. > :17:44.Northern Ireland? Correct, because they Iraq European rules in place
:17:44. > :17:49.when it comes to deviation of VAT rates, so this would be UK wide.
:17:49. > :17:56.could cost as many in Northern Ireland, couldn't it? We have -- we
:17:56. > :18:01.have to look at the bigger picture, 3,300 jobs could be created at a
:18:01. > :18:05.Conservative estimate. A new job creation does not come from nowhere.
:18:05. > :18:09.Initiatives are going on with the First Minister and the Finance
:18:09. > :18:13.Minister and Enterprise Minister. But financial stimulus is an
:18:13. > :18:19.effective way of creating jobs. Bocchino how painful the process
:18:19. > :18:25.has been surrounding the efforts to change the rate of corporation tax
:18:25. > :18:30.-- but you know. That has been an agonising debate for many years. So
:18:30. > :18:36.if this happens, it is going to be in the next Parliament. In it will
:18:36. > :18:40.take time, we accept that. But we accept corporation tax was an issue
:18:40. > :18:46.around the land border and this is also around the land border, but
:18:46. > :18:50.remember this initiative will be a nationwide initiative and we are
:18:50. > :18:55.very confident we can take this message to the Treasury. And will
:18:55. > :19:03.that be support for this in Wales, England and Scotland? If they can
:19:03. > :19:06.see the benefits, that is important. We will see!
:19:06. > :19:09.Well, the summer has come and gone, but not the debate over National
:19:09. > :19:12.Parks! The question of creating National Parks here for the first
:19:12. > :19:15.time is still very much alive, and only last week, public meetings
:19:15. > :19:17.once again demonstrated the strong feelings generated by the issue.
:19:17. > :19:22.Today, it was raised in the Assembly, with the Environment
:19:22. > :19:27.Minister being asked if he is now changing his mind.
:19:27. > :19:32.Listen to the Minister replied to the original question, and having a
:19:32. > :19:36.listening to him having a reply to the supplementary, do I take it you
:19:36. > :19:41.are telling of this Assembly today you are not proceeding with a
:19:42. > :19:48.national park? What I said and I repeated as that I am taking stock.
:19:48. > :19:52.That is not saying I am not take -- I am not proceeding. It is my
:19:52. > :19:57.obligation to hear all the voices when it comes to the issue of
:19:57. > :20:01.National Parks, and there are many and different frissons. In one part,
:20:01. > :20:06.it is clear or legitimate concerns have been raised by the farming
:20:06. > :20:09.community. In the same part of that area, a legitimate support for the
:20:09. > :20:13.principle of National Parks has been coming forward from the
:20:13. > :20:18.commercial community. So there are many voices when it comes to
:20:18. > :20:23.National Parks. But I would be reckless as if I did not listen and
:20:23. > :20:28.-- if I did not listen to what people were saying. So far from
:20:28. > :20:32.abandoning the proposal, I want to have a conversation with all those
:20:32. > :20:37.for and against over the next few weeks, John Donne that I will make
:20:37. > :20:41.a judgment on what my best advice is to the Executive and to this
:20:41. > :20:45.House. But given the scale of what our people are facing, do we not
:20:45. > :20:52.have an obligation to forensically interrogate any and all opportunity
:20:52. > :20:56.to grow drops in this part of the world? I give it a scale -- given
:20:56. > :21:00.the scale of worklessness that faces this part of the world, do we
:21:00. > :21:05.not have an obligation to recognise that given the scale and beauty of
:21:05. > :21:09.our natural environment, there are opportunities for heritage led
:21:09. > :21:12.development that we need to take over the next five or 10 years, on
:21:12. > :21:18.whatever the court or expression that has, perhaps that is the
:21:18. > :21:21.challenge for me as a minister and 2 us. I hope whatever way we do it,
:21:21. > :21:26.we measure up to that task. The Environment Minister on the
:21:26. > :21:29.continuing debate over the rights and wrongs of National Parks. The
:21:29. > :21:31.traumatic subject of suicide was very much on the agenda at Stormont
:21:31. > :21:34.today. Families and community groups spent most of the day here,
:21:34. > :21:37.lobbying MLAs and raising awareness through workshops and entertainment,
:21:37. > :21:44.inside and outside the building. To mark World Suicide Prevention Day
:21:44. > :21:51.MLAs also discussed the issue in the Chamber.
:21:51. > :21:56.I was speaking sum up -- to someone yesterday and were shocked to see
:21:56. > :22:02.we saw a rate of more than four suicides per day in 2012. Those
:22:02. > :22:06.that take their lives suffer from up a wider problems, financial
:22:06. > :22:12.difficulties, broken relationships or loneliness and isolation is. But
:22:12. > :22:18.what remains is a shattered family. In my own constituency, at present
:22:18. > :22:23.this motion and I want to pay tribute to the excellent services
:22:23. > :22:29.in my constituency to help those in despair or contemplating suicide.
:22:29. > :22:38.In particular, what we deem to be our 4th emergency service, search
:22:38. > :22:43.and rescue. Over 600 people took their remind us in 2010 and 2011. -
:22:43. > :22:47.- their own lives. That is 600 families who have lost a loved one,
:22:47. > :22:51.communities that have lost talent and potential and part of their
:22:51. > :22:58.legacy. We in this House must stand with those communities and a flat
:22:58. > :23:02.as much support and preventative services, one life is too many.
:23:02. > :23:07.we must also bear in mind that the specific circumstances of every
:23:07. > :23:11.person who becomes suicidal are unique. Front-line preventive
:23:11. > :23:15.treatment to care for people in emotional despair will and must
:23:15. > :23:20.remain essential. Voluntary and community groups have a vital role
:23:20. > :23:24.in delivering this from my support. They are often the port -- the
:23:24. > :23:30.first port of call for individuals and these families facing these
:23:30. > :23:35.daunting circumstances. This was published in evidence last year
:23:35. > :23:38.showing 70% of people who died from suicide in the previous decade in
:23:38. > :23:44.Northern Ireland had not been in touch with mental health services.
:23:44. > :23:47.So clearly a lot of people in serious emotional crisis are not
:23:47. > :23:53.accessing statutory mental health services, and this is something
:23:53. > :23:58.that needs to be looked at. It is also a reason it is vital for at
:23:58. > :24:02.the statutory and community sector to work together to provide suicide
:24:02. > :24:05.prevention suicide services that reach out to all those at risk.
:24:05. > :24:08.The vexed issue of suicide, prompting a great deal of agreement
:24:09. > :24:11.among MLAs this afternoon. Well, today may have been the first
:24:11. > :24:13.sitting in the Chamber for MLAs since their summer break, but
:24:13. > :24:15.committee meetings restarted last week.
:24:16. > :24:18.Up for discussion at the OFMDFM Committee was the planned inquiry
:24:18. > :24:21.into institutional abuse, and some groups are unhappy, saying the
:24:21. > :24:31.inquiry doesn't go far enough, as we'll hear now in our weekly look
:24:31. > :24:31.
:24:31. > :24:34.at committee business. The commission is at a loss to
:24:34. > :24:43.understand why it with regard to any living victim there is a need
:24:43. > :24:48.to fix instalment. We recognise with regard to dead victims, and
:24:48. > :24:51.you have to draw a line. F but where a victim is living, it is the
:24:51. > :24:56.commission's view that victim's case should be embraced up by the
:24:56. > :25:00.mandate of the inquiry, so we would be of the opinion that with regard
:25:00. > :25:04.to living victims, a date should not be said, but simply an
:25:04. > :25:09.acknowledgement that if the victim is still alive, regardless of that
:25:09. > :25:16.be before or after 1945, baby given their full right of audience to the
:25:16. > :25:20.inquiry -- the baby given. To the wider issues of sexual abuse
:25:20. > :25:25.outside the constitutional context, we share the view that this is an
:25:25. > :25:28.issue that needs to be taken account of. Sexual abuse of
:25:28. > :25:34.children did not just happen in institutional care settings, it
:25:34. > :25:38.also occurred in many other social contexts that have to be taken
:25:38. > :25:42.account of as a matter of international human rights law.
:25:42. > :25:45.Facts nevertheless we consider it is difficult to take account of
:25:45. > :25:49.those who mentioned sexual abuse in the current legislative project and
:25:49. > :25:53.we do not think it would be wise or prudent to withdraw the bill to
:25:53. > :25:57.widen the bill. But rather, we consider that a separate piece of
:25:57. > :26:02.legislation would be required to deal with those elements of sexual
:26:02. > :26:06.abuse there are not currently covered, elements that would
:26:06. > :26:14.embrace any other forms of sexual Fabrice -- abuse that take place
:26:14. > :26:21.outside the home. The to terms of human rights abuses, which we
:26:21. > :26:30.consider these two have been, are high -- do have a right to
:26:30. > :26:34.restitution, at rehabilitation, etc. -- victims of human rights abuses.
:26:34. > :26:38.I cannot sit at this committee, I have never come into this building
:26:38. > :26:44.without mentioning, what can we do for the people who have not made it
:26:44. > :26:51.this far? The people for whom already this has been too much and
:26:51. > :26:58.they have taken their own lives. Is there something, is their
:26:58. > :27:05.consideration for their relatives? For their children. And I think...
:27:05. > :27:08.And they are talking about opening this out like a parachute. We give
:27:08. > :27:16.consideration to the people in work in institutions and we give as much
:27:16. > :27:22.consideration to them and their families and their surviving
:27:22. > :27:28.relatives. In the same way that we would get it. And again, I would be
:27:28. > :27:33.clear about the fact that it would not be at Asda and -- that it would
:27:33. > :27:38.not be an extra, it would be the right. Not just a consideration.
:27:38. > :27:42.if we are going to acknowledge that we understand down generations,
:27:42. > :27:44.then of course we would have to. The Ulster Unionist leader Mike
:27:44. > :27:48.Nesbitt. Stephen Walker is with me for a
:27:48. > :27:55.final word. Stephen, a busy day here today and a busy few days
:27:55. > :28:00.ahead. It has been very busy today and it will be a very busy
:28:00. > :28:05.political agenda over the next few days. Tomorrow, there will be a
:28:05. > :28:10.protest at Stormont involving trade unions over the issue of welfare
:28:10. > :28:16.reform. That has been very controversial. On Wednesday, aware
:28:16. > :28:18.air connections will come under the spotlight at Westminster when
:28:18. > :28:24.members of the Northern Ireland affairs committee look at the issue
:28:24. > :28:29.of air links from Northern Ireland to other parts of the UK. Evidence
:28:29. > :28:33.will be given as part of an investigation into airline strategy.
:28:33. > :28:36.And as we move towards the dark autumn night, a reminder of the
:28:36. > :28:40.great sporting summer we have had because on Thursday night, there