:00:28. > :00:32.Hello and welcome to Stormont Today. Coming up on the programme... In a
:00:32. > :00:39.special joint committee session, MLAs Appledore horsemeat
:00:39. > :00:41.controversy 0.2 fraudulent activity. - -- MLAs are told the horsemeat
:00:41. > :00:44.controversy points to fraudulent activity.
:00:44. > :00:47.We will hear reaction from chair of the Agriculture Committee Paul Frew.
:00:47. > :00:51.And the Finance Minister has a warning for those who want more
:00:51. > :00:54.fiscal independence. There is discussion of breaking away from
:00:54. > :01:04.decisions made at Westminster, but he's actually ensure we are better
:01:04. > :01:06.
:01:06. > :01:09.Showing a united front in dealing with the meat crisis, Stormont's
:01:09. > :01:14.Health and Agriculture Committees held a joint meeting today to
:01:14. > :01:18.examine how horsemeat got into the food chain. Members heard from the
:01:18. > :01:22.days experts, including the director of the Food Standards
:01:22. > :01:26.Agency. Gerry McCurdy said horsemeat was not on his
:01:26. > :01:30.organisation's radar until late last year when authorities in the
:01:30. > :01:34.Republic began to test by it. when you look at the price
:01:34. > :01:40.associated with horse meat against beef, it does then become obvious
:01:40. > :01:44.that a horse going into the system, that fraudulent aspect is
:01:44. > :01:49.definitely present. Paul Frew chairs the Agriculture Committee
:01:49. > :01:54.and joins me now. Thank you for joining us. Why do you think
:01:54. > :01:59.horsemeat was not on the radio are off the Food Standards Agency and a
:01:59. > :02:04.late last year? They have said to us that their main element is food
:02:04. > :02:09.safety. They do not necessarily test for species of meat. I suppose,
:02:09. > :02:12.because we have such a traceable and good system in Northern Ireland,
:02:12. > :02:17.which has world-class and second to none, I suppose it was not on their
:02:17. > :02:22.radar. With the benefit of hindsight, it seems so blindingly
:02:22. > :02:27.obvious that should have been. and as far as I know, tests were
:02:27. > :02:32.done in the past with regards to meat exported to America. So it has
:02:32. > :02:37.been done to a certain degree, but this has caught everyone unawares.
:02:37. > :02:40.It needs to be investigated. That is why I was keen to investigate
:02:40. > :02:45.and interrogate the information on the investigation currently going
:02:45. > :02:50.on, the extent of that, who is being investigated, what is being
:02:50. > :02:55.tested, and what the results will be. Did you get a degree of
:02:55. > :02:58.reassurance today from those experts, who wear before that.
:02:58. > :03:02.Hearing of the committee, were getting to grips with finding out
:03:02. > :03:06.what was happening. -- who were before that joint hearing of the
:03:06. > :03:10.committee, were getting to grips with finding out what was happening.
:03:10. > :03:15.Everyone will have to inspect their meat which they currently have. I
:03:15. > :03:19.was keen to find out how that would be input into the FSA and what
:03:19. > :03:23.determinations will come out of this. What will we know? We need to
:03:23. > :03:28.know the truth, all of the truth and we need to see how we repair
:03:28. > :03:33.the damage. Repairing the damage is important. As far as we know, this
:03:33. > :03:40.is not a food scare? None the less, it is an issue of consumer
:03:40. > :03:44.confidence. Yes. What you say to people who have real concerns about
:03:44. > :03:51.buying some of the products which have clearly been affected by this
:03:51. > :03:56.controversy? I am keen to separate the issues. The produce farmers
:03:56. > :04:01.grow in their fields is traceable, from gate to plate, very good
:04:01. > :04:06.produce, grass-fed, fresh meat, there is nothing wrong with it. It
:04:06. > :04:12.is fully traceable and accountable. Separates that from imported
:04:12. > :04:17.processed meat. And the meat contained within convenience
:04:17. > :04:21.packaging. That is absolutely right to distinguish those two, but
:04:21. > :04:26.because you mad does not always know which of those two options he
:04:26. > :04:30.or she is purchasing, particularly in ready meals. It is all to do
:04:31. > :04:35.with Labour leader. What does it say we are eating on the label? --
:04:35. > :04:38.it is all to do with the label. That is why we should be reassured
:04:38. > :04:46.to go to bridges and ask where the meat is from. Any butcher should be
:04:46. > :04:50.able to tell you. That is the answer? As far as I am concerned.
:04:50. > :04:55.But other issues you will want more detailed answers on. You'll want to
:04:55. > :05:00.hear from these experts again? has to be ongoing. We need to make
:05:00. > :05:04.sure we know exactly what is on everybody's plate in the future. We
:05:04. > :05:08.cannot have another situation like this. The industry will recover and
:05:08. > :05:12.we will get through this all right. That is because of the traceable
:05:12. > :05:18.system and how good produce and our system is. But we must not go back
:05:18. > :05:24.to the unknown. All through, we leave it there. Thank you. -- Paul
:05:24. > :05:26.Frew. The Employment and Learning
:05:26. > :05:29.Minister outlined changes to the scheme which supports students to
:05:29. > :05:32.stay on at school. Stephen Farry told the Assembly that the
:05:32. > :05:35.Education Maintenance Allowance will be better targeted to those
:05:35. > :05:38.who really need it. This means that payments of �10 and �20 will be
:05:38. > :05:40.scrapped and instead a single payment of �30 per week will be
:05:40. > :05:44.paid to students from low income households.
:05:44. > :05:47.The EMA scheme was jointly introduced in September of 2004
:05:47. > :05:51.from the Department of Employment and Learning and the Department of
:05:51. > :05:59.Education. The main Papiss Cisse to encourage young people from lower
:05:59. > :06:02.income backgrounds to remain in education at school or college. EMA
:06:02. > :06:06.supports a key programme for Government priorities to close the
:06:06. > :06:10.gap in educational under- achievement in those who are least
:06:10. > :06:16.that most disadvantaged and improve the participation of young people
:06:16. > :06:21.in education. At present, it consists of weekly payments of �30,
:06:21. > :06:27.�20 or �10, depending on household income. And bonus payments
:06:27. > :06:32.totalling �300 per annum. Findings from a recent joint review of the
:06:32. > :06:36.highlighted the scheme was not as effectively targeted as it could be.
:06:36. > :06:42.Over 60% of students receiving it indicated they would have remained
:06:42. > :06:46.in education even if they had not received it. On the other hand, the
:06:47. > :06:49.review identified two cases where EMA made a real difference in terms
:06:49. > :06:57.of pretension. I think it is important to say that, from the
:06:57. > :07:01.outset, we were committed to the retention of this EMA and were
:07:02. > :07:04.determined that young people from lower income families would
:07:04. > :07:08.continue to be assisted to stay in education and training.
:07:08. > :07:12.Nevertheless, good governance meant that we had to address the issue
:07:12. > :07:16.concerning how effectively the current scheme was targeted. A
:07:16. > :07:20.number of key findings emerged from the review and consultation. The
:07:20. > :07:27.majority of respondents wanted EMA retained in some form and were in
:07:27. > :07:30.favour off of a single tape -- of a single payment of �30 per week.
:07:30. > :07:37.They should be better targeted to more effectively support families
:07:37. > :07:41.most in need. To that end, it has determined that the �20.10 pounds
:07:41. > :07:51.bands should be withdrawn and be replaced by a single band of �30. -
:07:51. > :07:58.
:07:58. > :08:03.- that the �10, �20 bands should be I am disappointed to receive the
:08:03. > :08:07.statement in this manner. There is no record that the committee can
:08:07. > :08:11.find that we have received a summary of the consultations that
:08:11. > :08:15.were provided back to the committee, as is normal practice. I am quite
:08:15. > :08:20.sure the committee would have wanted to talk about this matter in
:08:20. > :08:24.some detail. It is certainly a matter of public interest and I am
:08:24. > :08:29.frankly shocked that it should be brought to this Assembly as
:08:29. > :08:33.accomplished. This is not the appropriate way to go about making
:08:33. > :08:37.major changes of financial implications for the people of
:08:37. > :08:40.Northern Ireland. The committee should have been properly consulted,
:08:41. > :08:43.would have consulted properly, would have engaged, and I suspect
:08:43. > :08:49.members your present would be disappointed in the way this has
:08:49. > :08:53.been handled. This is a decision by the Executive. The decision was
:08:53. > :08:59.taken last week at the Executive, which we are reporting to the House
:08:59. > :09:02.today. As such, this is the first opportunity we have had to report
:09:02. > :09:07.one of the decisions that have been taken in terms of an executive
:09:07. > :09:14.decision. It is appropriate that it come to the Assembly to make that
:09:14. > :09:17.announcement. We are happy to be here and to answer questions on the
:09:17. > :09:25.particular issue. There was a public consultation on this issue
:09:26. > :09:30.during the course of 2012, which ran for 14 weeks. At no stage did
:09:30. > :09:36.the committee express any view on that consultation or seek to give
:09:36. > :09:41.any views to the committee. The chair of the committee, I suppose,
:09:41. > :09:45.is probably the least person in this chamber who would wish to take
:09:45. > :09:49.direction from anybody, least alone those in his own party. This is
:09:49. > :09:53.good news for students and young people in Northern Ireland. We
:09:53. > :09:58.should not forget that. Employment and Learning Minister
:09:58. > :10:01.Stephen Farry. More than 200 road signs were vandalised here in the
:10:01. > :10:05.last year, the Regional Development Minister told the chamber during
:10:05. > :10:08.question time this afternoon. Danny Kennedy said the money spent
:10:08. > :10:13.repairing signs could be used for improving road safety. First, he
:10:13. > :10:17.took a question on future responsibility for parking. Are you
:10:17. > :10:22.still keen to see off street parking devolved to local councils?
:10:22. > :10:26.You made reference to something I am not keen to see happen. Are you
:10:26. > :10:31.keen to see off street parking devolved to local councils? I thank
:10:31. > :10:37.you for your supplementary question and confirm I am indeed keen to see
:10:37. > :10:43.off street parking. I think local Government and councils, in
:10:43. > :10:49.whatever shape, could perform a very useful duty and service on
:10:49. > :10:56.behalf of local ratepayers to manage it. And it would give their
:10:56. > :11:02.councils the authority to decide on thorny issues like charging and
:11:02. > :11:07.rates of charge and penalty Charge Notices. I am very interested in
:11:07. > :11:12.that. And I will continue to have discussions, not only with the
:11:12. > :11:16.Minister for Environment, but also local councils. I can confirm that
:11:16. > :11:22.have been 244 reports of road signs being defaced within the last 12
:11:22. > :11:28.months. Sufficient evidence available, where that is available,
:11:28. > :11:33.we shall seek prosecution. I am also sure that the member showers
:11:33. > :11:37.frustration that my department has to devote valuable resources in
:11:37. > :11:41.terms of expenditure and staff time to deal with this issue, when that
:11:41. > :11:44.could be used profitably in other activities. Many of which are
:11:44. > :11:48.safety related and would provide great benefit to the people of
:11:48. > :11:52.Northern Ireland. Can you undertake to the House that, where there have
:11:53. > :11:57.been repeated instances of vandalism, whatever type,
:11:57. > :12:03.particularly on main routes where tourists of others who are not used
:12:03. > :12:06.to the travel journey, that the possibility of replacing them with
:12:06. > :12:11.higher located signage, to make it more difficult for the offence to
:12:11. > :12:18.be repeated, would that be considered? We look on an ongoing
:12:18. > :12:25.basis I best, not only to protect existing signs, but to ensure that
:12:25. > :12:29.they become less easy to attack. The situation is that there are
:12:29. > :12:35.some people out there who make determined efforts to vandalise
:12:35. > :12:41.signs. I know it is an issue of concern to many members.
:12:41. > :12:47.Londonderry signage seems to be a particular target. I was advised
:12:47. > :12:53.that 34 incidents of road sign defacement over the past 12 months
:12:53. > :13:00.in that particular area. And whilst we do not keep details and records
:13:00. > :13:05.of how sounds are defaced, but we estimate that that vandalism or
:13:05. > :13:15.cars approximately four to six times per year. They are serial
:13:15. > :13:20.
:13:20. > :13:25.offenders out there. I do wish they How many flags have been reported,
:13:25. > :13:32.and what action is being taken? don't have the specific detail
:13:32. > :13:36.available at this point. I am happy to respond to her. The member will
:13:36. > :13:41.recognise, as with the issue of road signs and the defacing of road
:13:41. > :13:46.signs, it is a delicate and sometimes difficult matter to
:13:46. > :13:50.police. Would the Minister accept that there is a perception out
:13:50. > :13:54.there among the small business community and small contractors
:13:54. > :14:00.that in fact, there is a sort of cartel operating around public
:14:00. > :14:05.procurement costs, and it is counter-productive to growing a
:14:05. > :14:11.small business, particularly in the construction sector? That is his
:14:12. > :14:19.perception. I hope it is not the reality. I am keen to hear first
:14:19. > :14:22.hand at examples that he may have. If he has such examples, we will
:14:22. > :14:23.investigate them can satisfy ourselves that it is not the case
:14:23. > :14:28.that we are in any way discriminating against small
:14:28. > :14:32.business. The Regional Development Minister.
:14:32. > :14:35.The meat controversy we discussed earlier is not at the only issue on
:14:35. > :14:39.the agenda for the agriculture minister. During Question Time,
:14:39. > :14:45.Michelle O'Neill also had to deal with missing fields and job
:14:45. > :14:49.creation at her planned department headquarters. But first, the issue
:14:49. > :14:54.of confidence in farming. Go there is a lack of confidence within the
:14:54. > :14:58.agriculture industry, certainly with the horsemeat issue at the
:14:58. > :15:06.minute. Will the Minister accept that within that confidence is the
:15:06. > :15:11.confidence of young people to go into farming, which has been a
:15:11. > :15:15.family heritage it, and what will the Minister do to encourage it? We
:15:15. > :15:20.do need to instil confidence and we need support in place to attract
:15:20. > :15:25.young people to either stay into farming -- stay in farming all come
:15:25. > :15:31.in to farming. There are targeted streams of the common agriculture
:15:32. > :15:35.policy which we can use to attract young farmers. There are avenues
:15:35. > :15:40.that allow us to support young people. But if we are to have
:15:40. > :15:44.sustainable farming, we need to continue to get young people
:15:44. > :15:50.involved in the industry. I will continue to work with the young
:15:50. > :15:54.farmers' organisation. A combination of those efforts will
:15:54. > :15:58.attract young people into the industry. Can the minister outlined
:15:58. > :16:03.if there is any possibility of an expansion of research and
:16:03. > :16:10.development at the proposed new headquarters at Ballykelly, given
:16:10. > :16:16.the prospects for employment in the catchment areas there in Coleraine
:16:16. > :16:21.and Londonderry? Go I can assure the number that the headquarters
:16:21. > :16:26.relocation project is on target. I recognise the benefits there are in
:16:26. > :16:32.terms of employment, the construction industry and the
:16:32. > :16:36.building in the area. In terms of research and development, it is not
:16:36. > :16:39.being considered at this stage. But it is a great side which other
:16:39. > :16:49.departments may look to in the future. He is there any other help
:16:49. > :16:54.
:16:54. > :16:58.out there to help farmers with their 2013 claims? As I explained
:16:58. > :17:05.earlier, all our officers will be open during the single application
:17:05. > :17:10.form period to provide support to farmers making their application.
:17:10. > :17:14.Members raised concerns about delays about making the
:17:14. > :17:23.appointments, and I am happy to explore that. But in general,
:17:23. > :17:28.farmers can go in and ask inquiries in relation to their applications.
:17:28. > :17:34.Amendments will also be accepted during that period. So whilst
:17:34. > :17:37.farmers will once again be able to apply online, this year an
:17:37. > :17:42.additional new feature means that not only can they viewed these maps,
:17:42. > :17:47.but they also been able to measure eligible features which will help
:17:47. > :17:50.them fill out their application form. But this is a two-way process.
:17:50. > :18:00.Farmers must get in touch with the department so that we can get these
:18:00. > :18:01.
:18:01. > :18:04.right. Given that farmers are soon to receive their 2013 forms,
:18:04. > :18:09.farmers are concerned about the level of inaccuracies contained in
:18:09. > :18:15.their new maps. Yesterday, one farmer contacted me with 30 fields
:18:15. > :18:20.missing from his map. Another had a 35 fields missing. In light of the
:18:20. > :18:23.unacceptable level of inaccuracies, does the Minister agree that the
:18:23. > :18:30.delivery of the maps has been diabolical, and will she update of
:18:30. > :18:35.the House on how such errors have arisen? I don't agree with the
:18:35. > :18:40.diabolical statement, but I care should remember that the first two
:18:40. > :18:43.patches were received positively by farmers. Now that we have had the
:18:43. > :18:47.final batch of maps going out, we have had a positive feedback, but
:18:47. > :18:52.farmers have also contacted me in terms of concerns around missing
:18:52. > :18:58.fields. That is something that is under investigation. It looks like
:18:58. > :19:02.it is not a result of incorrect mapping, but more resistance issue.
:19:02. > :19:06.So hopefully it can be resolved. I do not agree with it being
:19:06. > :19:11.diabolical, but I do agree that it is a two-way process. I take my
:19:11. > :19:15.role seriously in terms of of what we produce, and the farmers must
:19:15. > :19:18.take it seriously in terms of getting it right.
:19:18. > :19:21.Today's second reading of the Budget Bill heard interventions on
:19:21. > :19:24.many aspects of government spending over several hours. But at the
:19:24. > :19:32.heart of the debate was a difference of opinion over whether
:19:32. > :19:36.Stormont should have more physical powers. We expect the public sector
:19:36. > :19:40.economy to lead to a general economic recovery, we will be
:19:40. > :19:45.waiting a long time. In dealing with those issues within the
:19:45. > :19:50.private sector, many of those are beyond the reach of this assembly.
:19:50. > :19:54.Even in terms of the role of banks and supporting local enterprise, we
:19:54. > :20:03.have to live with the reality that the accountability mechanism does
:20:03. > :20:07.not reside here. Representatives of the major banks are acutely aware
:20:07. > :20:11.that they are not accountable to this assembly. It can be
:20:11. > :20:15.frustrating to get the outcomes that give hope to our existing
:20:15. > :20:20.business. The economy in this part of Ireland is in a free for.
:20:20. > :20:25.Private enterprise is melting away and jobs are being lost at a
:20:25. > :20:28.phenomenal rate. It is clear that this executive is doing its best to
:20:28. > :20:32.grow the private sector and rebalance our economy, given the
:20:32. > :20:35.fiscal limitations facing it. Since this assemblage was established,
:20:35. > :20:38.the primary objective has been to grow the private sector and
:20:38. > :20:42.rebalance the economy. But this target has not yet have been
:20:42. > :20:47.achieved. It is my view that the debate around the future of fiscal
:20:47. > :20:50.levers we have needs to happen. Any attempts to start the debate have
:20:50. > :20:55.been countered with a reference to an over estimated deficit between
:20:55. > :20:59.what we conjugate in taxes and what we receive to run administration
:20:59. > :21:02.had. This price tag is always prone out, and the case for greater
:21:02. > :21:07.fiscal powers dismissed. But little or no assessment has been made of
:21:07. > :21:13.the potential benefits. To have a rational debate on such a matter
:21:13. > :21:16.costs nothing. We are prepared to engage in that debate. We are not
:21:16. > :21:20.in a position economically where any of us should be giving
:21:20. > :21:24.ourselves a pat on the back, but we have to accept, with the benefits
:21:24. > :21:31.that devolution has brought, there are regularly trade missions going
:21:31. > :21:35.out on behalf of the minister for enterprise, trade and investment,
:21:35. > :21:40.first and Deputy First Minister, who are going out there and
:21:40. > :21:43.encouraging businesses to invest in Northern Ireland. Have your UK-
:21:44. > :21:49.based in Northern Ireland. We can't ignore the fact that Belfast and
:21:50. > :21:54.Northern Ireland are considered for the second favourable location for
:21:54. > :22:00.foreign direct investment only to the City of London. That is an
:22:00. > :22:04.incredible achievement. My do McLoughlin raised the issue -- Mr
:22:04. > :22:08.McLoughlin raised the issue today and yesterday. I know they will
:22:08. > :22:15.keep coming back to the issue of additional fiscal powers and the
:22:15. > :22:20.way in which that could help for future budgetary times. On both
:22:20. > :22:24.sides, there is a political motive. Of course Sinn Fein want greater
:22:24. > :22:28.independence from the rest of the UK, even ignoring the economic
:22:29. > :22:32.impact that would have. As a Unionist, I do not want to see that
:22:32. > :22:39.economic independence. There are occasions when it is the cry of
:22:39. > :22:43.thing to do. But this "let's break free of the fiscal restraints
:22:44. > :22:50.because of ideological reasons", I think is not a desirable way
:22:50. > :22:54.forward. Mr Flanagan has a political point to make. It is an
:22:55. > :23:00.inconvenient truth that we are dependent upon the rest of the UK.
:23:00. > :23:05.He says we have to break away from these decisions that are made at
:23:05. > :23:10.Westminster. Well, these decisions made in Westminster ensure that we
:23:10. > :23:17.are �10.5 billion better off than we would be if decisions were not
:23:18. > :23:22.made in Westminster. Listening to that is the economist
:23:22. > :23:27.John Simpson. Quite a significant part of that debate was around
:23:27. > :23:33.whether Northern Ireland needs more fiscal powers. How big an issue is
:23:33. > :23:37.that for the executive, or should it be? For the executive as a whole,
:23:37. > :23:41.it is not a major issue. There is an issue of not paying any extra
:23:42. > :23:48.taxes. We are always try to minimise what we paid the Treasury
:23:48. > :23:51.in air passenger duty and a carbon tax. In the queue, we have to cope
:23:52. > :23:56.with the corporation tax change. If we get the corporation tax
:23:56. > :24:01.concession, the Treasury will not give it as a gift. We will have to
:24:01. > :24:05.make up the money some other way. As Sammy Wilson was putting it,
:24:06. > :24:10.this is not an easy begin to get a better answer for Northern Ireland.
:24:10. > :24:14.Sir it is a high risk strategy? is a high risk, because the more
:24:14. > :24:21.concessions you get, the more likely you are to be paying and not
:24:21. > :24:25.getting any benefits. San Wilson said -- Sammy Wilson said he had no
:24:25. > :24:29.idea -- no problem with the idea of examining policies. Some parts of
:24:29. > :24:33.the economy are struggling. How much of an examination needs to be
:24:33. > :24:38.taken about where we are getting it right and where we need to do
:24:38. > :24:42.better? That was the failure of the type of debate we have today. It
:24:42. > :24:45.was a debate in which 20 or 25 members or said something different
:24:45. > :24:49.that they would like about government spending. And Sammy
:24:49. > :24:54.forcefully said, not many of you talked about how he would raise the
:24:54. > :24:57.money to do it. But ultimately, we do need a debate about where we are
:24:57. > :25:01.going with government spending in the next couple of years. We are
:25:01. > :25:07.halfway through a four Year period. We have a budget approved for next
:25:07. > :25:12.year, and we are going to go very much good as it is now. I wonder if
:25:12. > :25:19.that needs to be looked at again. And finally, the hoary old chestnut
:25:19. > :25:24.of water charges? That was brought up and it is an example of whether
:25:24. > :25:27.we should be looking at what we are doing and the consequences. Sammy
:25:27. > :25:31.Wilson, in his reply, congratulated Stewart Dickson in raising this
:25:31. > :25:35.issue and gave what I thought was a hint that this is an issue we will
:25:35. > :25:38.now have to think about. We are spending a couple of hundred
:25:38. > :25:42.million pounds a year or water investment. If this were in England,
:25:42. > :25:46.that would come from private sources. Because of how we arranged
:25:46. > :25:53.here, it comes out of money that should go on something else. It is
:25:53. > :25:56.expensive. Last week's Enterprise Committee
:25:56. > :26:00.heard warm words for the investment pledge to promote Belfast following
:26:00. > :26:04.the recent flap protests. Joan Dalton from the Chamber of Trade
:26:04. > :26:07.said the impetus provided by the money now needs to be built on, as
:26:07. > :26:14.we can now here in our weekly look at committee business.
:26:14. > :26:17.It kicked off on 3rd December. lot of members rely on December
:26:17. > :26:22.being the harvest month. That is the month that encourage them for
:26:22. > :26:25.the other 11 months of the deer. For a debate to happen in a council
:26:25. > :26:29.and the resulting civil unrest that happened and the downturn in
:26:29. > :26:36.economic trade that happened was very difficult. We applaud the
:26:36. > :26:43.Council for stepping up and giving us money to put into the campaign.
:26:43. > :26:48.The breakdown was significant. We got 600,000 from the Assembly and
:26:48. > :26:54.400,000 from the council and 500,000 from the private sector.
:26:54. > :27:01.That is 1.5 million to promote the city. And it has worked well. But
:27:01. > :27:06.we can't rest on our laurels. have been worst days, and we have
:27:06. > :27:14.survived. Belfast has moved forward. There has been huge investment,
:27:14. > :27:20.much to the detriment of cases like Bangor and so on. A lot of people
:27:20. > :27:24.work and shop in the Belfast area. Belfast has had it good for a long
:27:24. > :27:30.time. The images of Northern Ireland in the last two months have
:27:30. > :27:36.been very negative. The media have certainly exploited it. They have
:27:36. > :27:44.used it and abused it. It is important to remain positive.
:27:44. > :27:54.we say to the committee is not what we portray in the media. Is it not
:27:54. > :27:59.the case that you have to park your car or get a bus, and there is
:27:59. > :28:07.quite a distance. The success of Victoria Square is at the detriment
:28:07. > :28:15.of other places. If you move on and go to John Lewis, there will be
:28:15. > :28:20.further displacement. Victoria Square has given food for, it has
:28:20. > :28:27.not displaced it. It has skewed where the shopping centre of
:28:27. > :28:31.Belfast is. There is some merit in that analysis in that you get
:28:31. > :28:36.people shifting from one retail destination to another. That is why
:28:36. > :28:41.the chamber's view is more holistic. We have to get all of Belfast city
:28:41. > :28:45.centre regenerated. And regeneration is often retail lead,
:28:45. > :28:49.because the that allows things to stack up from a financial point of
:28:49. > :28:54.view. But we need to get people living back in the city centre. We
:28:54. > :28:58.have to get entertainment on a broader perspective than just bars
:28:58. > :29:03.in the city centre. It has to appeal to lots of different
:29:03. > :29:08.elements to make the city attractive. We would hold the view
:29:08. > :29:12.that Victoria Square is a positive asset, because of it is housing
:29:12. > :29:15.retailers that don't exist anywhere else, and it helps form a unique
:29:15. > :29:20.shopping destination for. Last week's Enterprise Committee