:00:29. > :00:36.Welcome to Stormont Today. Coming up on the programme. Party leaders meet
:00:37. > :00:40.to discuss the proposals. Martin McGuinness says the party needs to
:00:41. > :00:46.show more leadership. I've watched over the last 18
:00:47. > :00:54.months, Unionist Parties dancing to the tune of extremists within their
:00:55. > :01:00.own communities. That has to end. MLAs debate the public pension pot
:01:01. > :01:05.and its far-reaching implications. 216,000 employees in the Public
:01:06. > :01:10.Services. That represents over 30% of the total workforce across the
:01:11. > :01:19.north. And to help get to the bottom of it, I'm joined by financial
:01:20. > :01:22.journalist Paul Gosling. The leaders of the five main parties
:01:23. > :01:26.came together this afternoon to discuss the Haas proposals on flags,
:01:27. > :01:29.parades and the past. The meeting came a day after the assembly
:01:30. > :01:35.rejected a Sinn Fein motion calling for the implementation of the plan.
:01:36. > :01:39.Amendments by the UUP, the DUP and Alliance were voted down. Some of
:01:40. > :01:42.the leaders spoke to the media in the Great Hall after today's
:01:43. > :01:48.discussions. We had a good, robust meeting. We
:01:49. > :01:51.have discussed the thing. It's my view that we have had enough process
:01:52. > :01:58.and that the issues are now over to the five party leaders to basically
:01:59. > :02:01.sort out. I'm keen to get some sort of an implement aches process on
:02:02. > :02:05.those things that we agree on to get legislation on those things that ewe
:02:06. > :02:09.can push forward and to get. Resolution on the issues that are
:02:10. > :02:13.still to be resolved. I welcome the fact the party lead verse had a
:02:14. > :02:17.meeting and that we'll be meeting again next week. What is absolutely
:02:18. > :02:24.clear is that we need real action to deal with outstanding issue, not the
:02:25. > :02:28.illusion of activity. Is this deal looking at activity or not? Next
:02:29. > :02:31.week will tell. But the elephant in the room here is
:02:32. > :02:36.very clear for I think everybody to But the elephant in the room here is
:02:37. > :02:46.see. I have watched over the course of the last 18 months to Unionist
:02:47. > :02:51.Parties dancing to the tune of extremists within their own
:02:52. > :02:55.communities. That has to end. I say that because I believe that the
:02:56. > :03:00.influence of these people has impacted on the Haas that
:03:01. > :03:05.negotiations and negotiations in the Haas outcome. This is a time for
:03:06. > :03:10.leadership. I've stood against full square the activities of so-called
:03:11. > :03:15.Republican dissidents. My house has been attacked, my wife has been
:03:16. > :03:20.abused in the streets, slogans have been written around my house, I have
:03:21. > :03:26.been criticised right, left and centre, but give no quarter to
:03:27. > :03:31.anybody who believes in violence or the threat of violence represents a
:03:32. > :03:37.way forward. I expect the same sort of leadership from everybody else in
:03:38. > :03:41.this Assembly. This has to be a very determined attempt by political
:03:42. > :03:48.leaders to deliver sooner rather than later. I do not envisage this
:03:49. > :03:53.process going anywhere close to the elections of this year. This is a
:03:54. > :03:57.are test. The test is now. The test isn't going to come after the
:03:58. > :04:00.election or after the next election or after the Assembly elections in
:04:01. > :04:05.2016. The test of leadership is coming now and it's coming in the
:04:06. > :04:08.coming days and weeks. The unionist leaders didn't appear
:04:09. > :04:13.before the cameras after the meeting, but a DUP source said the
:04:14. > :04:17.parties have to achieve a deal among themselves and it isn't enough for
:04:18. > :04:22.just the Nationalists to agree with Dr Haas. The parties agree to meet
:04:23. > :04:25.next week. So to the debate that dominated proceedings in the
:04:26. > :04:28.Assembly today. The public service Pensions Bill is huge body of work
:04:29. > :04:32.and it directly affects almost a third of people working in Northern
:04:33. > :04:36.Ireland. Civil servants, teachers, nurses, police officers and
:04:37. > :04:41.firefighters will all see the terms of their pensions Hagued -- changed.
:04:42. > :04:47.Here is a taste of the marathon debate. -perve I have no doubt that
:04:48. > :04:51.all members will be keenly aware of their decisions today and at
:04:52. > :04:56.indeed the Bill will impact upwards indeed the Bill will impact upwards
:04:57. > :05:01.of 260,000 employees in the Public indeed the Bill will impact upwards
:05:02. > :05:06.30% of the total workforce across the north. Those affected are civil
:05:07. > :05:10.servants, local government officers, teachers, Health Service workers,
:05:11. > :05:14.prison officers, police officers and firefighters.
:05:15. > :05:18.There is a very important piece of legislation and I think, as a member
:05:19. > :05:22.of the financial personnel committee, it was a very valuable
:05:23. > :05:27.exercise in going through the evidence on this particular group of
:05:28. > :05:32.amendments. I think on that we got submissions both from a wide range
:05:33. > :05:36.of witnesses and also I think we'd very good interaction with the
:05:37. > :05:39.Department of Officials. Unless you have a degree of expertise in
:05:40. > :05:43.pensions, a lot of terminology at times can be a little confusing.
:05:44. > :05:47.Indeed it's important that we are able to, as a committee, plough our
:05:48. > :05:52.way through the potential mine field that is there. We do believe it's
:05:53. > :05:57.essential that there is strong Trade Union representation on these new
:05:58. > :06:05.boards. I think the minister accused me of being in cahoots with the
:06:06. > :06:12.Trade Unions and he is, I don't know if that ease the actual term to use,
:06:13. > :06:18.but - "worse than that" right, I can tell the minister, I make no apology
:06:19. > :06:24.for that. We have consulted wide widely among a range of stakeholders
:06:25. > :06:34.including the Trade Unions and we have taken cogny Sans of their views
:06:35. > :06:39.quite rightly so in my view. Cognisance. The public service group
:06:40. > :06:43.have stated that they have grave concerns over fairles and
:06:44. > :06:49.transparency due to the fact that scheme information is controlled by
:06:50. > :06:52.the department and ultimately by the Treasury -- fairness. It's not
:06:53. > :07:00.perhaps a piece of legislation that we'd enact if it was entirely up to
:07:01. > :07:03.us. But they share parity with Westminster again and it raises its
:07:04. > :07:06.head. My colleague voted against the changes at Westminster but the
:07:07. > :07:09.decisions we face today now are very much focussed en the direct
:07:10. > :07:15.financial impact that we'll face if we fail to implement the reforms. If
:07:16. > :07:29.the intention of Mr Bradley and his colleagues is to in fact be
:07:30. > :07:32.the intention of Mr Bradley and his of people within our public sector
:07:33. > :07:37.are not members of Trade Unions, then it's not representative to have
:07:38. > :07:42.solely Trade Union representatives on pension boards. In facts to
:07:43. > :07:46.restrict membership of pension boards to only Trade Union
:07:47. > :07:51.representatives could be seen as discriminatory against the greater
:07:52. > :07:55.volume of people who are affected by all the Sarahious schemes who're not
:07:56. > :07:59.members of Trade Unions. I'm sure the member wouldn't want to in any
:08:00. > :08:05.way be seen to be discriminatory against one section of workers over
:08:06. > :08:10.another. I think also, there was comments about the perception of
:08:11. > :08:14.some unions, and that's why some of these comments have come forward,
:08:15. > :08:19.that there was insufficient remarks from the department and the Trade
:08:20. > :08:25.Unions. I can assure them and the House that there's been beyond
:08:26. > :08:28.sufficient consult aation. I'm sure some of my officials will be
:08:29. > :08:33.staggered by the idea that they have not engaged in this. There have been
:08:34. > :08:36.umpteen engagements. Just because the Trade Unions haven't got the
:08:37. > :08:42.outcome that they might want, doesn't mean there hasn't been
:08:43. > :08:46.sufficient engagements. This piece of legislation rewrites a
:08:47. > :08:51.fundamental way the law on pensions -- in a fundam way. When there are
:08:52. > :08:56.members of pension schemes in this part of the world and in Britain who
:08:57. > :09:02.have grave suspicions about what might next come in terms of pensions
:09:03. > :09:07.legislation, then it's entirely appropriate, Mr Deputy Speaker, that
:09:08. > :09:10.when it comes to the powers of administration in relation to future
:09:11. > :09:14.council provisions, that they come to this House by way of a resolution
:09:15. > :09:19.in terms of what they are proposing. The problem for me with this Bill is
:09:20. > :09:25.it's an accountant's Bill. The numbers may work, but the real
:09:26. > :09:30.question is that potential Liege 68, will the people be able to work? Of
:09:31. > :09:34.course the numbers have to add up. That's a major component of the Bill
:09:35. > :09:40.and of course, we cannot ignore that, but equally, we have to ensure
:09:41. > :09:41.it makes sense in reality. It's undeniably a time of change for
:09:42. > :09:52.some. But the undeniably a time of change for
:09:53. > :09:55.in schemes which are fair, affordable and sustainable.
:09:56. > :10:00.The Finance Minister, Simon Hamilton. With me is the financial
:10:01. > :10:03.journalist Paul Gosling. Thanks for joining us, welcome to the
:10:04. > :10:06.programme. This is far-reaching legislation, potentially, which
:10:07. > :10:09.would affect a huge proportion of the population of Northern Ireland,
:10:10. > :10:11.of course? It will. As far as the executive is concerned, this
:10:12. > :10:16.legislation has to go through because if it doesn't, it loses a
:10:17. > :10:19.quarter of a billion a year, as a block grant from Westminster so. As
:10:20. > :10:23.far as the ministers are concerned, it has to go through. But you are
:10:24. > :10:27.absolutely right. It affects 30% of the workforce of Northern Ireland
:10:28. > :10:32.and that's because we have so many, such a high proportion of our who,
:10:33. > :10:35.in the public sector. It's a high significant piece oaf legislation
:10:36. > :10:38.for Northern Ireland than it was nor Great Britain where similar measures
:10:39. > :10:42.have been adapted already. Is it overly simplistic to say this is
:10:43. > :10:45.about saving money for the Government, so it must mean people
:10:46. > :10:49.in receipt of the pensions will be worse off in future? Broadly that is
:10:50. > :10:53.correct. It means people will be working longer. That's the first
:10:54. > :10:56.thing. It means people will be taking retirement from public sector
:10:57. > :11:00.jobs alet the same time that they are taking their state retirement in
:11:01. > :11:04.the future. The second thing is, it's moving from what's called final
:11:05. > :11:08.salary on to average pay so that will marginally reduce the amount of
:11:09. > :11:12.money that people get. I mean, there are other elements as well which is
:11:13. > :11:16.that traditionally, public sector workers have been on what's called
:11:17. > :11:20.defining benefits, meaning that they know how much they are going to get.
:11:21. > :11:23.In future, there is going to be a cap on the amount of money that the
:11:24. > :11:27.Government or the public sector bodies put in, so that will also
:11:28. > :11:31.reduce the amount and it means there can't be an absolute guarantee on
:11:32. > :11:34.what people will get. Does it upset the apple cart between the balance
:11:35. > :11:38.of people working for the public or private sector. The big attraction
:11:39. > :11:42.for working in the public sector up to now has always been the very
:11:43. > :11:47.attractive pension? Yes. This is what's upset the private sector.
:11:48. > :11:50.During the recession, private sector pay's fallen. There is a position in
:11:51. > :11:55.Northern Ireland where public sector pay is 20% higher an average than
:11:56. > :11:59.private sector. The arguments in favour of having a better pension in
:12:00. > :12:02.the public sector no longer apply. The private sector is very unhappy
:12:03. > :12:05.about the situation that they have had to make job losses, they have
:12:06. > :12:08.been cutting pay and people working there are not on very good pensions,
:12:09. > :12:18.pensions within the private sector, but there's been no comparable
:12:19. > :12:22.reform. What about the role of the unions in
:12:23. > :12:25.all of this? They are not happy and feel members are losing out. How
:12:26. > :12:30.critical is their voice in this debate and what kind of impact do
:12:31. > :12:35.you think it can have? Well, the unions have been very unhappy about
:12:36. > :12:38.it. I'm surprised they have not been heard more vocally. They are unhappy
:12:39. > :12:43.in particular that the members will be working longer to receive
:12:44. > :12:47.pensions, and longer than expected. That is the key thing. But broadly,
:12:48. > :12:51.they also feel they have not been consulted sufficiently and we hear
:12:52. > :12:55.Simon Hamilton, the Finance Minister, reject that argument, but
:12:56. > :12:58.that is their view. Very briefly, while the Bill applies across all
:12:59. > :13:02.the public service, there are areas which are unique to certain jobs.
:13:03. > :13:05.Firefighters, for example, are a special case? And police as well.
:13:06. > :13:09.Because they cannot be expected to work as long because their jobs are
:13:10. > :13:13.more physically demanding, so yes, they will be affected but not quite
:13:14. > :13:18.in the same way as the rest of the public sector. Thank you very much.
:13:19. > :13:23.After five hours of debate, that Bill passed its consideration stage.
:13:24. > :13:27.Education now, and a struggling secondary school with low pupil
:13:28. > :13:32.numbers was given another chance by the sedgecation minister today in. A
:13:33. > :13:40.shake-up of schools in East Belfast, Dunndonald High will stay open and
:13:41. > :13:48.get help. As minister, I have the responsibility of scrutinising
:13:49. > :13:54.proposals. The proposals put for consideration are to amalgamate two
:13:55. > :14:02.high schools, to close other schools and increase the size of the girls
:14:03. > :14:06.and boys' high schools. The scale and impact of these proposed changes
:14:07. > :14:16.are significant. They reflect the need to restructure
:14:17. > :14:26.the area. Firstly, the amalgamation of the two high schools - inrollment
:14:27. > :14:37.has declined from 574 in 20107-08 to 385 in 2012-12.
:14:38. > :14:39.has declined from 574 in 20107-08 to performance of both schools at GCSE
:14:40. > :14:43.level has been significantly below average. However, there have been
:14:44. > :14:49.signs of improvement in recent years. The amalgamations proposed
:14:50. > :14:57.will result in a School of Around 1,000 pew pills. I have decided to
:14:58. > :15:02.approve this. It will provide -- pupils. It will address the issues
:15:03. > :15:08.faced by both schools in the past. With only 92 pupils remaining in
:15:09. > :15:15.Orangefield, the declined to such an extent that is no longer feasible to
:15:16. > :15:19.approve its closure. It's too late to turn the situation
:15:20. > :15:23.around. The only reasonable option available to me regarding the future
:15:24. > :15:30.of Orangefield is to approve its closure from 31st August, 2014.
:15:31. > :15:34.I want to turn to the future of Dundonald High. I have considered
:15:35. > :15:41.very carefully the proposal of the schools and can see many reasons why
:15:42. > :15:50.this would be, as in the case of --ingfield be an appropriate course
:15:51. > :15:53.of action -- Orangefield. . Dundonald is a large urban area with
:15:54. > :15:58.a large population of school age children. There is no other
:15:59. > :16:01.inclusive post-primary school close by. From engagement with local
:16:02. > :16:07.representatives, it's clear that this is a community whose people
:16:08. > :16:11.need and should rightly expect to be able to access good quality
:16:12. > :16:18.secondary education. It's clear this is not happening. The provision in
:16:19. > :16:22.Dundonald's simply not been good enough. The last inspection a couple
:16:23. > :16:26.of months ago highlighted modest improvement but painted a graphic
:16:27. > :16:31.picture of low attendance, low attainment and low aspirations.
:16:32. > :16:34.The school is in the right geographical location. The young
:16:35. > :16:39.people are there and the community like all communities need and
:16:40. > :16:44.deserve a good school. So on this occasion, I decided not to accept
:16:45. > :16:45.the proposal for closure. Our recruitment process will come in
:16:46. > :17:01.shortly to recruit a principle pal. demonstrating letters and sets high
:17:02. > :17:06.standards and expectation for all of the young people.
:17:07. > :17:12.The education minister. Pupil numbers will remain the same at
:17:13. > :17:16.Ashfield Girls and Boys school. Priory college in Hollywood has been
:17:17. > :17:20.given the go-ahead to improve slightly. This time the focus on
:17:21. > :17:25.Question Time was on the approach to the Dixon plan. What What possible
:17:26. > :17:30.confidence can be had given the way he's behaved in the treatment of the
:17:31. > :17:34.Dixon plan? I suspect, like other members of his
:17:35. > :17:39.party, he's not interested in the Dixon plan, he's interested in two
:17:40. > :17:44.schools, name namely the colleges, because the local represents are
:17:45. > :17:50.represents representatives are not interested. Let's be honest, your
:17:51. > :17:56.concern is the needs of two schools in the Craigavon area that serve a
:17:57. > :18:02.selection of the Protestant commune in that area. The -- Protestant
:18:03. > :18:06.community in that area. The less well off are voiceless in this
:18:07. > :18:12.debate. No-one from the DUP will speak up for them. No-one from the
:18:13. > :18:15.Ulster Unionist Party will speak up for them, all concentrated on the
:18:16. > :18:19.needs of do schools who have a close relationship with a good friend of
:18:20. > :18:24.the DUP. Now, that's another matter that deserves exploration. You say
:18:25. > :18:28.that it's clear from the minutes of the SELB Board Meeting, that they
:18:29. > :18:36.acted under duress. Do you want to clarify what that was in the
:18:37. > :18:42.minutes? Your party colleagues are no doubt aware that there's been
:18:43. > :18:46.acts of intimidation, harassment, threats, made against people who've
:18:47. > :18:50.stood up and said, we don't agree with the DUP's vision on this, we
:18:51. > :18:56.don't agree with the vision on this, we believe there is another way of
:18:57. > :19:02.doing this. They have been subject to threats, intimidation against
:19:03. > :19:06.them. The DUP and the Ulster Unionist Party have remained silent
:19:07. > :19:09.on that matter. So if you want to look for duress, if you want to look
:19:10. > :19:22.for intimidation, you're looking look for duress, if you want to look
:19:23. > :19:30.interest is the education of all the young people in the sector. He keeps
:19:31. > :19:34.making remarks about the DUP and the Ulster Unionist. They represent the
:19:35. > :19:38.vast majority of those people who attend the schools. I can also throw
:19:39. > :19:46.back in his face the view that they are Protestant schools. Any child is
:19:47. > :19:50.entitled to attend Lurgan. There is no discrimination. What confidence
:19:51. > :19:54.with k the people have in him, particularly representing the area,
:19:55. > :19:59.when he's trying to railroad this through against the witches of the
:20:00. > :20:03.vast majority of parents? The member states that he and his party
:20:04. > :20:07.represent the vast majority of the community is absolutely right - well
:20:08. > :20:12.then start representing the vast majority of the people in relation
:20:13. > :20:16.to this matter because your voices have remained silent on the
:20:17. > :20:20.educational and poor educational outcomes afforded to the Protestant
:20:21. > :20:24.working class in that community. You need to stand up, you need to make
:20:25. > :20:30.your vices heard and say the current status quo is completely and totally
:20:31. > :20:36.unacceptable -- voices. Point of order.
:20:37. > :20:42.During his answer to Mr Wells, Mr O'Dowd claimed knowledge of
:20:43. > :20:47.instances of threat and intimidation and threat and intimidation, of
:20:48. > :20:51.course, involves criminality. Would it be in order to ask if, with that
:20:52. > :20:57.knowledge, the minister has reported such matters to the PSNI as must be
:20:58. > :21:01.expected from his public role and his obligation to uphold the rule of
:21:02. > :21:05.law and not to withhold information? The member has stayed well off the
:21:06. > :21:12.point and I do not accept that as a valid point of order. However, I
:21:13. > :21:14.will refer this to the speak's office because there was an
:21:15. > :21:18.allegation made of co herrings from this side of the House which wasn't
:21:19. > :21:24.substantiated and that should be examined -- coherence.
:21:25. > :21:30.Plans on how to commemorate the past and celebrate the future were
:21:31. > :21:32.tackled by the Culture, Arts and Leisure minister today. 2014 marks
:21:33. > :21:44.the centenary of Leisure minister today. 2014 marks
:21:45. > :21:51.benefits from its time as having the first City of Culture.
:21:52. > :21:58.I have secured over ?2 million for the January to March period 2014 to
:21:59. > :22:02.support a continuation of key projections programmes and to
:22:03. > :22:09.prevent the loss of key benefits and partnerships. Therefore, I came to
:22:10. > :22:14.ensure that the office that will be set up for the enhanced focus in the
:22:15. > :22:19.north-west, this will have responsibility for coordination
:22:20. > :22:23.oversight of Culture, Arts and Leisure, which will include
:22:24. > :22:28.Coleraine and other areas. Overlooked the fact that it was a UK
:22:29. > :22:33.City of Culture, but she will be aware that inclusivity was the key
:22:34. > :22:39.word throughout the UK safe culture year. What steps is she going to
:22:40. > :22:43.take to ensure that it spreads out from Londonderry, stra ban and
:22:44. > :22:48.Coleraine that that key word is implemented in practise, that
:22:49. > :22:52.communities see it as a system and a set of programmes that tech take
:22:53. > :22:58.part in and there doesn't have to be arguments, fights and disputes in
:22:59. > :23:04.order to get there -- Strabane? I thank the Minister for His question
:23:05. > :23:09.to. Be fair, the members I know are not arguing and fighting about this
:23:10. > :23:14.whole thing. I'm sure he will support Derry's bid for Irish City
:23:15. > :23:18.of Culture in 2016 and I look forward to his support in that.
:23:19. > :23:22.Libraries are developing a programme of exhibitions, talks and book
:23:23. > :23:28.launches to commemorate the start of the First World War. Museums are
:23:29. > :23:36.also planning to outline access to collections and an exhibition and
:23:37. > :23:39.programming at the Ulster museum and Transport Museum. It will involve
:23:40. > :23:44.cooperation with the national Museum of Ireland and the Imperial War
:23:45. > :23:48.Museum and National Portrait Gallery in London. I think that certainly
:23:49. > :23:50.the more collaborative approaches that we have to make sure that we
:23:51. > :24:06.make a respectful events, regardless as Governments and representatives
:24:07. > :24:10.of many people across this island and indeed other Irelands, we try to
:24:11. > :24:13.work collectively. I want to assure the member, I will talk to anyone,
:24:14. > :24:23.regardless of who they are, about learning lessons from the past. I'm
:24:24. > :24:28.happy to talk to anyone. Speaking as someone whose graez great
:24:29. > :24:36.grandfather died at the Battle only the Somme, it's important we
:24:37. > :24:40.recognise the communities. Would you downme in commending the minister in
:24:41. > :24:47.his good work in recognising the contribution. Of course the history
:24:48. > :24:52.books will show that many people joined. Have you any plans to meet
:24:53. > :24:55.or have you met with to coordinate with an all-Ireland response,
:24:56. > :24:58.particularly around the 4th August, the date of entry to the war? I
:24:59. > :25:03.thank the member for her question and it will come as no surprise I
:25:04. > :25:09.have met with him and plan to have further meetings on this. I'm
:25:10. > :25:12.certainly looking at, like for example, Public Records Offices of
:25:13. > :25:17.both are looking at ways in which we can use archives in order to add to
:25:18. > :25:21.centenaries or even learning and education. We are also looking at
:25:22. > :25:26.libraries. We have had conferences on this and we have had discussions
:25:27. > :25:31.and will continue to do so around how we celebrate and work together
:25:32. > :25:34.where possible in celebrating and remembering and commemorating events
:25:35. > :25:39.that were significant throughout the course of the decade of centenaries.
:25:40. > :25:43.Is it possible that I would be correct in surmising that we could
:25:44. > :25:50.be financing the commemoration of rebels and terrorists?
:25:51. > :25:57.Well, given the context of the question so far that have been based
:25:58. > :26:02.within the First World War, I think it's a bit churlish of the member to
:26:03. > :26:10.start - I mean you are the only person today who's been affronted -
:26:11. > :26:14.that's just a give given. But in the spirit of the members's question, I
:26:15. > :26:27.will be upfront learning, Bezzer respect and
:26:28. > :26:33.certainly more inclusivity and use the centenaries in order to do that,
:26:34. > :26:37.I will. A forthright minister responding there. Paul Gosling is
:26:38. > :26:42.still with me for a few final thoughts. We have been talking about
:26:43. > :26:45.the Haas proposals. If they were agreed in the future, could we
:26:46. > :26:49.expect some sort of economic bounce? No. I don't think there will be
:26:50. > :26:52.anything like the Good Friday Agreement effect. I think you look
:26:53. > :26:56.at the other side of the coin. If it's not agreed, then we are going
:26:57. > :26:59.to have more parading problems, more problems with flag protests and it
:27:00. > :27:03.will put off investment and also people shopping in the city centre
:27:04. > :27:08.in Belfast in particular. So it will damage the economy if we did not get
:27:09. > :27:12.agreement. We heard the figures about the disappointing foot fall
:27:13. > :27:16.for the Christmas period, down 9% on the same period last year. Is that a
:27:17. > :27:21.big concern? Did you hear that with your head in your hands this
:27:22. > :27:23.morning? No, because I wasn't surprised. We have to accept that
:27:24. > :27:27.the retail sector in Northern Ireland is too big for the amount of
:27:28. > :27:32.demand and spending and we are going to see a continued contraction. We
:27:33. > :27:36.will see more vacancies and, I'm afraid, the retail sector is not
:27:37. > :27:39.going to be the place it was in 2008 or whatever. Do you think that's
:27:40. > :27:43.compounded, that basic fact is compounded by people's uncertainty
:27:44. > :27:46.about whether there might be trouble in Belfast on a certain Saturday
:27:47. > :27:48.afternoon? That's clear that people from the republic for example are
:27:49. > :27:52.not going to COMMENTATOR: Over and people from
:27:53. > :27:56.Great Britain are going to come over for fewer trips. We have the trends
:27:57. > :28:00.with more people shopping online and we probably have too many shops in
:28:01. > :28:05.Northern Ireland and actually, it's going to be a declining sector for
:28:06. > :28:08.Northern Ireland. We seem to be hearing competing interpretations of
:28:09. > :28:13.the economic climate. We hear people saying on the one hand green shoots,
:28:14. > :28:17.house prices are stabilising, maybe on the upturn, the construction
:28:18. > :28:20.sector seems to be more positive than before, it wasn't the worst
:28:21. > :28:23.Christmas on the high street. Then we hear George Osborne, the
:28:24. > :28:26.Chancellor saying, after the next election, there'll be further huge
:28:27. > :28:29.cuts in public spending. Where do you think we are at the moment? As
:28:30. > :28:32.far as Britain is concerned, we are seeing that there are more private
:28:33. > :28:36.sector jobs created and public sector jobs lost. We have almost
:28:37. > :28:47.permanent austerity if we have a Conservative Government
:28:48. > :28:51.permanent austerity if we have a dependent on Great Britain more than
:28:52. > :28:54.the Irish Republic. We haven't got sufficient manufacturing here to
:28:55. > :28:58.generate the economy, so we are fundamentally weak and I don't see
:28:59. > :29:01.that we are going to have any sort of recovery here which is equivalent
:29:02. > :29:04.to that in Britain. The property sector remains basically a really
:29:05. > :29:07.difficult problem. Very interesting to hear your
:29:08. > :29:10.thoughts. Thank you very much indeed for joining us. That's it for
:29:11. > :29:13.tonight. Don't forget to join me on Thursday night for The View. Until
:29:14. > :29:21.then, from all of us, bye. Hidden beneath your feet
:29:22. > :29:24.are magical worlds, home to extraordinary
:29:25. > :29:27.little creatures. Imagine being able to experience
:29:28. > :29:34.this wonderland through their eyes. see the incredible adventures
:29:35. > :29:40.of these miniature heroes