:00:28. > :00:32.Welcome to a love struck Stormont today where it is all hearts and
:00:32. > :00:37.flowers. If you are sitting up to watch this, maybe you need a little
:00:37. > :00:43.bit of romance in your life. On the programme tonight, the Road to Love
:00:43. > :00:48.never run smooth. A �600 million investment in roads and hospitals.
:00:48. > :00:52.There is something missing. We need to get a hold of the public inquiry
:00:53. > :00:58.and why the d'Or de Minister would not Minister would not release this,
:00:58. > :01:05.only he knows. How well people with disabilities be hit by the reforms,
:01:05. > :01:08.S --? At this stage, it is not accurately assess the impact of the
:01:08. > :01:12.wide range of proposals on people with disabilities.
:01:12. > :01:20.With more answers, my guest is disability rights campaigner Monica
:01:20. > :01:24.Wilson. Big changes are on the way to the
:01:24. > :01:28.benefits system and no matter how fraught the progress of the welfare
:01:28. > :01:32.reform bill at Westminster, the government says it is determined it
:01:32. > :01:39.will become law. How will people with disabilities who receive
:01:39. > :01:45.benefits be affected? Monica Wilson is from Disability Action. Do you
:01:45. > :01:49.know? We know a little bit. We know there are thousands of disabled
:01:49. > :01:52.people in Northern Ireland and families with children with
:01:52. > :01:57.disabilities that are concerned and worried and the sooner we get the
:01:57. > :02:03.clarity, the better. We know some things that indicate for us this
:02:03. > :02:05.might be just about saving money. The discussion around 20% savings
:02:06. > :02:13.on the disability living allowance doesn't take into account the fact
:02:13. > :02:19.that in Northern Ireland 21% of people of adults with -- 21% of
:02:19. > :02:23.adults are living with disabilities. It is different to central London
:02:23. > :02:28.or England or whatever, and when we get to do our the Reform Bill, we
:02:28. > :02:32.need to be taking heed of what is happening in Northern Ireland.
:02:32. > :02:36.finance minister said on another programme there will not be a
:02:36. > :02:40.reduction in the amount of money being spent on benefits. He was
:02:40. > :02:46.talking about the whole pool of money. It is a mixed message.
:02:46. > :02:49.not sure, not that I would dispute the figures yet until I get more
:02:49. > :02:59.information, but we don't think that sounds like what is going to
:02:59. > :03:04.happen. We are talking about �4.4 billion that carers save the
:03:04. > :03:08.economy by unpaid care and many of them will live around poverty
:03:08. > :03:14.levels when the change comes in. That is one person in five,
:03:14. > :03:18.unemployed but wanting to work, compared to one person in 15 that
:03:18. > :03:23.are non-disabled. It is good to see some welfare reform. But what we
:03:23. > :03:27.want to know is what the impact will be. And how we can mitigate
:03:27. > :03:31.that. We will come back to that later.
:03:31. > :03:34.The impact on disabled people on benefit reforms dominated questions
:03:34. > :03:37.to the Social Development Minister today. We will hear that in a
:03:37. > :03:42.moment but let's start with regional development and the
:03:42. > :03:47.upgrade of the rail link to the North West has been playing on many
:03:47. > :03:51.MLAs minds, especially with those - - especially those with connections
:03:51. > :03:55.to the area. Given the North West is central to
:03:55. > :04:00.tourism during upcoming events over the next couple of years, does the
:04:00. > :04:06.Minister anticipate an increase in passenger numbers and perhaps
:04:06. > :04:11.additions or amendments to the existing timetable? I thank the
:04:11. > :04:17.member for a supplementary. I always find those people are the
:04:17. > :04:23.most difficult to persuade. Translink are planning a new
:04:23. > :04:27.timetable which will be implemented when new trains are in servers. And,
:04:27. > :04:34.obviously, this timetable has to be agreed with the Department in
:04:34. > :04:41.advance, so there will be a period of consultation. Obviously, as part
:04:41. > :04:50.of that new timetable, Translink will endeavour to deploy new trains,
:04:50. > :04:57.taking account of the increased numbers. And certainly we would
:04:57. > :05:01.hope to carry that fall would. minister will be aware that is a
:05:01. > :05:06.view amongst some people in the North West that the railway line is
:05:06. > :05:11.up for closure. In order to nail that campaign, bad paranoia that
:05:11. > :05:16.sometimes exists, will the Minister commit to the long-term, not just
:05:16. > :05:23.development, but expansion of the line to an early service in the
:05:23. > :05:26.longer term? I am grateful to the member and, indeed, former Minister
:05:26. > :05:30.for Regional Development for the East -- for the supplementary
:05:30. > :05:38.question. I have a strong commitment to the railway system
:05:38. > :05:44.and I do believe that rail provides an opportunity for moving the
:05:44. > :05:49.travelling public. Therefore, as minister, I am very supportive. As
:05:49. > :05:56.an indication of the decision I have taken and the efforts I have
:05:56. > :06:01.made to ensure that we do not actually close this line and we
:06:01. > :06:06.continue to improve it, and with that will come the expectation of
:06:06. > :06:10.greater use, and that will further consolidate the position of rail in
:06:10. > :06:14.the North West and also in other places in Northern Ireland.
:06:14. > :06:17.Welfare reform is a major concern for many people, including those
:06:17. > :06:22.with disabilities, so the social development minister should have
:06:22. > :06:25.some answers as to the impact it will have, shouldn't he?
:06:25. > :06:29.welfare reform bill is progressing through Westminster and at this
:06:30. > :06:34.stage it is not possible to accurately assess the impact of the
:06:34. > :06:37.wide range of proposals on people with disabilities. My priority is
:06:37. > :06:42.to insure the needs of the most vulnerable people in society are
:06:42. > :06:46.protected. And that the reform proposals take into account the
:06:46. > :06:50.specific circumstances of Northern Ireland. An executive sub-committee
:06:51. > :06:54.has been set up to consider all of these proposals had to have
:06:54. > :06:58.developed an executive response to mitigate against any negative
:06:58. > :07:03.aspects and achieve long-term benefits for the people of Northern
:07:03. > :07:08.Ireland. In terms of DLA, I remain conscious that we have higher
:07:08. > :07:11.proportion of our population in receipt of the LA. Under a
:07:12. > :07:16.different profile particularly in mental health. The assessment
:07:16. > :07:20.criteria reflects people with disabilities, and those groups that
:07:20. > :07:25.represent them, and we are consulting on the descriptors and
:07:25. > :07:28.entitlement thresholds. There is a need for others to be careful that
:07:28. > :07:32.figures they are quoting in relation to the number of people
:07:32. > :07:35.that made their is a reduction in benefits are informed and do not
:07:35. > :07:40.cause undue stress to the honourable people. There is a
:07:40. > :07:44.danger of being alarmist. Both might officials and I are in
:07:44. > :07:48.regular and ongoing communication with the Department for Work and
:07:48. > :07:52.Pensions. The degree around thick pasty for flexibilities within the
:07:52. > :07:57.proposals to reflect the particular needs and circumstances of the
:07:57. > :08:07.people of Northern Ireland. In order to assess the impact across
:08:07. > :08:08.
:08:08. > :08:18.the 75 groupings, my department has deployed a response to the
:08:18. > :08:20.
:08:20. > :08:26.consultation. I will include another report for that. Tax
:08:26. > :08:29.credits. My officials are currently working on detailed analysis to
:08:29. > :08:37.come from the financial impacts for customers and robust information
:08:37. > :08:41.will be available in the late spring or to the Dunne late summer.
:08:41. > :08:46.-- or early summer. I thank the Minister for his very informed
:08:46. > :08:53.answer. Or would it be possible, in the light of the various research
:08:53. > :09:00.that he is doing and information such as it is to hand to send up
:09:00. > :09:03.some sort of a contingency plan so that we can limit any negative
:09:03. > :09:08.impact of the reform and people with distinct needs, particularly
:09:08. > :09:13.those with learning disabilities? If you are going to have a
:09:13. > :09:16.contingency plan to deal with contingencies, you need to know
:09:16. > :09:23.what they are. That is why we are undertaking work to see what the
:09:23. > :09:32.impact is going to be. The focus up until now has been very much a trip
:09:32. > :09:38.on engagement with Westminster. But directly with ministers, D W P, but
:09:38. > :09:42.David frying and Maria Miller. We have been engaged with the
:09:42. > :09:46.Secretary of State and our officials are in contact with
:09:46. > :09:52.officials from Westminster. Now the legislation is virtually through
:09:52. > :09:57.Westminster, and we know where they stand, we can focus on working out,
:09:57. > :10:04.now we know the product, we will be able to know better what the impact
:10:04. > :10:08.is going to be, and then we can start to do the work. There are
:10:08. > :10:11.always the issues authority to keep in mind and financial parity has
:10:11. > :10:16.therefore limitations on what can be done but operation me what we
:10:16. > :10:21.can do to make a different is open to us. And we will do everything we
:10:21. > :10:26.can in that regard for. Are you reassured by the Minister
:10:26. > :10:31.of's comments? Not really. I would say that Maria
:10:31. > :10:35.Miller, the Minister for Disabled People has said there is no
:10:35. > :10:39.unemployment, there is no problem for disabled people seeking jobs.
:10:39. > :10:46.As I said, we have great unemployment levels with people
:10:46. > :10:53.with disabilities. The Employment Commission is talking about work
:10:53. > :11:00.placements and many disabled people find work through work placements.
:11:00. > :11:04.I think that looking at the benefits given to people that it
:11:04. > :11:08.under the work and support test, that is very different. For example,
:11:08. > :11:13.severe disablement premium, given to people who obviously have a need
:11:13. > :11:18.for that, will not be available for those in the workgroup, but will be
:11:18. > :11:23.available for those in the support group. The overview of this is that
:11:23. > :11:26.people are worried. They have said to the department and to the Social
:11:26. > :11:31.Care Agency they need to make communication plans and if they
:11:31. > :11:35.don't know what the impact is going to be, that makes me even more
:11:35. > :11:40.worried. Is there a danger that groups like yourselves are being
:11:40. > :11:45.alarmist? I don't think so. If you look at the calls we get from
:11:45. > :11:48.disabled people that are terrified about what is happening, I think
:11:48. > :11:54.time being realistic. If I knew what the impact was, I would be
:11:54. > :11:58.better able to respond to it, but nobody knows. That is my worry.
:11:58. > :12:02.The finance minister has revealed where he is planning to spend
:12:02. > :12:06.almost �600 million of his Budget with most of the money going on
:12:06. > :12:10.roads. The controversial a fight upgrade will go ahead but has been
:12:10. > :12:17.scaled back while the aid to Carrickfergus to Belfast road will
:12:17. > :12:21.also get improvements, as will the eight eights. In terms of the
:12:22. > :12:26.construction industry itself, this will create 2,500 jobs, but that is
:12:26. > :12:32.not the end of the matter. Of course, there is a multiplier
:12:32. > :12:37.effect so for this. It is reckoned that the �500 million we will be
:12:37. > :12:43.spending will, in turn, generate additional spending, which, because
:12:43. > :12:49.of the multiplier effect, will be 2.8 times. That will generate
:12:49. > :12:54.expenditure of nearly �1.6 billion in the economy over the period.
:12:54. > :13:04.he and the exec -- are they still committed to the other sections in
:13:04. > :13:09.the long-term, given that there are problems around funding?
:13:09. > :13:13.As I said in an answer to an earlier question, the decision on
:13:13. > :13:18.any road scheme, as far as I am concerned as finance minister, must
:13:18. > :13:22.be based on, first of all, what are the priorities in the programme for
:13:22. > :13:25.the government and how does this scheme fit into the priorities
:13:25. > :13:32.which departments have set for themselves? There must be objective
:13:32. > :13:36.criteria on which these investments are made. I do not want to give any
:13:36. > :13:39.commitment today which takes the pressure of the Irish government to
:13:40. > :13:45.make a contribution. I think he would recognise it would be foolish
:13:45. > :13:49.to do that. We have got �50 million commitment from them. I think if I
:13:49. > :13:54.were to signify that we were quite happy to continue with the rest of
:13:54. > :13:58.the roads, no further money would be forthcoming. It is my job to
:13:58. > :14:03.maximise the amount of money so that we can maximise them. Can the
:14:03. > :14:09.Minister confirm the two sections he announced on the road will start
:14:09. > :14:15.this ought and? Could he give confirmation for the start of the
:14:15. > :14:22.work on the other road? First of all, the spend on the two
:14:22. > :14:28.roads will start this year. As far as the hospital is concerned, what
:14:28. > :14:32.the proposal will do, it will enable them to be because the time
:14:32. > :14:35.between the enabling works being carried out, which I understand are
:14:35. > :14:41.being done, and then the hospital been built, because that was going
:14:41. > :14:51.to be a gap. Again, there will be substantial spend of nearly �10
:14:51. > :14:54.
:14:54. > :14:59.We need to get hold of the public inquiry into the A five and why the
:14:59. > :15:05.Minister will not release this, only he knows. And the further need
:15:05. > :15:09.to remove the plight from the section from Ballygawley until
:15:09. > :15:13.Aughnacloy because there is a lot of land and farmers and that land
:15:14. > :15:21.could continue to be blighted if a clear statement of intent isn't
:15:21. > :15:27.made soon. Let's talk to one of the winners, Danny Kennedy. Going on
:15:27. > :15:31.that point, what about this public inquiry? The inquiry is an
:15:31. > :15:37.independent process and the inspector is due to report and he
:15:37. > :15:43.will report in his own time with his detailed submission. It would
:15:43. > :15:46.not be proper for me to put pressure on him so we will wait for
:15:46. > :15:52.the report and when it becomes available we will study it as
:15:52. > :15:57.quickly as possible and see what the implications are, in respect of
:15:57. > :16:06.the A5 road and the A eight. this decision taken out of your
:16:06. > :16:10.hands? I am the Minister for the roads and, therefore, I have
:16:10. > :16:14.identified priority is in terms and the strategic road network and that
:16:14. > :16:24.is why we brought forward this balanced series of announcements
:16:24. > :16:30.today. Long-sought after roads, much campaigned for. And two
:16:30. > :16:38.sections of the A five. I have announced today almost half a
:16:38. > :16:42.billion in terms have spent, which is spectacular. Although the A5
:16:42. > :16:47.road has been scaled back, the local Tories have been critical,
:16:47. > :16:55.they say that to challenge so much money being spent. Is your party
:16:55. > :17:03.going back on the manifesto promise? What we're doing is
:17:03. > :17:08.reigniting the construction industry, giving hope to young
:17:08. > :17:10.people and creating real benefit in terms of the local economy and
:17:10. > :17:16.particularly the construction industry. Those are very positive
:17:16. > :17:21.things and it has been warmly welcomed by the industry and by
:17:21. > :17:28.road users themselves and I am interested to hear the comments of
:17:28. > :17:32.others but they are not really at the game when it comes to creating
:17:32. > :17:36.jobs and developing opportunities all over Northern Ireland.
:17:36. > :17:41.Allister later this afternoon was not very happy with this proposal,
:17:41. > :17:47.and said, where is the business case? Has it been sent to the
:17:47. > :17:52.Department of Finance? The fact is, the business case was only
:17:52. > :17:58.completed upon receipt of the inspectors' report and that will
:17:58. > :18:05.detail any necessary changes and they will be costed and then the
:18:05. > :18:08.business case will be finalised to the satisfaction of everyone. That
:18:08. > :18:15.is the nature of the contracts we have entered into. Thank you for
:18:15. > :18:18.joining us tonight. It may seem like a dim and distant memory, but
:18:18. > :18:21.when the budget was agreed in March last year, the SDLP voted against
:18:21. > :18:26.it. But as Mark Devenport told me earlier, that view may be softening,
:18:26. > :18:30.thanks to today's spending announcement. It would appear that
:18:30. > :18:34.the SDLP reacted to the good news for Labour around Stormont by
:18:35. > :18:38.trying not to be painted into the corner of being nay-sayers and they
:18:38. > :18:45.always quoted against the budget in the past, even ministers have voted
:18:46. > :18:52.against it, they continue to do so, like in June. Yesterday, during
:18:52. > :18:59.heated exchanges, Alasdair McDonnell again said, we are minded
:18:59. > :19:05.to oppose this, but in the light of this capital spending, the SDLP
:19:05. > :19:12.finance spokesperson said they were ready to be more generous and
:19:12. > :19:18.signalled a shift. Good news on that front but some bearing bad
:19:18. > :19:23.news today? This is about the release in written form of report
:19:23. > :19:30.from inside the finance department and the First and Deputy First
:19:30. > :19:35.Minister's offers by units within those offices. It was not
:19:35. > :19:40.particularly wonderful in the sense that this report found that 67% up
:19:40. > :19:45.the executive goals under the old Programme for Government had been
:19:45. > :19:51.met but there has giving things to say about health. It found that
:19:51. > :19:57.less than one-third of the previous goals had been met. Some people say,
:19:57. > :20:03.this maybe should have been spelt out on the chamber floor and maybe
:20:03. > :20:07.this is bearing bad news. Since it appears to be bad news mainly about
:20:07. > :20:11.health and of course help was run by the Ulster Unionists, would the
:20:11. > :20:15.DUP and Sinn Fein really have thought about burying this? They
:20:15. > :20:19.could have used this as an opportunity to bash the Ulster
:20:19. > :20:25.Unionist Party? They spent a long time and the last administration
:20:25. > :20:30.having a go at Michael McGimpsey. The kind of goals that were not met
:20:30. > :20:35.were about ending the rise in obesity, reducing the suicide rate
:20:35. > :20:40.by 15%. They said some strong targets for themselves. They did
:20:40. > :20:44.not manage to achieve these. The question is, get targets that you
:20:44. > :20:48.can meet! Then you welcome up trumps when people look at it
:20:48. > :20:52.afterwards and say, did you achieve those goals? The Alliance Party
:20:52. > :20:57.thinks it is a case of burying bad news and Stewart Dickson joins me
:20:57. > :21:00.now. You think that this unlikely put this out on the same day that
:21:00. > :21:07.they announced lots of money for road improvement and hospital
:21:07. > :21:10.improvement? I am convinced. It was a good news story in terms of my
:21:10. > :21:17.constituency in East Antrim and in relation to the roads and hospitals
:21:17. > :21:20.but sitting on a table outside was a written statement from OFM-DFM
:21:20. > :21:23.telling us basically had they failed to meet their targets. Not
:21:23. > :21:28.even prepared to come to the chamber and answer questions on
:21:28. > :21:32.this or make any oral statement. I think that has shovelling bad news
:21:32. > :21:37.out when most of the media has been covering the good news about the
:21:37. > :21:45.investment. They did reach 67%? That includes green and amber
:21:45. > :21:49.warning lights so even that is over a bit. Realistically, we are
:21:49. > :21:57.looking at nearly 50% of key targets must and many of those are
:21:57. > :22:00.very important, hospital waiting times, in relation to the rate of
:22:00. > :22:08.suicide, one of the most important issues that challenges our
:22:08. > :22:14.community. Important indicators. This is a period of 2008 - 11 but
:22:14. > :22:18.much of the failures have been since 2010. So might argue that it
:22:18. > :22:23.was a targets that were unrealistic. To reduce suicide by 15%, given the
:22:23. > :22:29.upward trend over the past years, was pretty unrealistic in the first
:22:29. > :22:33.place? You need to set challenging targets, no matter what. I do
:22:33. > :22:39.appreciate this is a very sensitive area but it does in investment and
:22:39. > :22:44.perhaps more time. But OFM-DFM paid for a great deal of professional
:22:44. > :22:46.and buys in setting as targets. They are set as realistically as
:22:46. > :22:52.possible and they might be challenging and sometimes ministers
:22:52. > :23:01.tell us that targets are stretching targets. Eradicating child poverty
:23:01. > :23:06.by 2020? Why set that as a target. There have been good things, things
:23:06. > :23:12.have been achieved. They are unrealistic, like that., but also
:23:12. > :23:16.failures in there. Trolley wait times. That simply as a failure.
:23:16. > :23:21.There are difficult issues for people with disabilities, one of
:23:21. > :23:24.the targets they did not breach was at 13 week waiting list for people
:23:24. > :23:33.waiting for new wheelchairs. They did not meet that. What is the
:23:33. > :23:37.waiting time? It can be as long as 26 weeks. It depends on the type of
:23:37. > :23:40.wheelchair and the complexity of the individual need but if you do
:23:40. > :23:47.need something that enable you to move outside your room or your
:23:47. > :23:51.house and you had to wait 13 weeks, would you not be feeling that you
:23:51. > :23:54.are not part of society? And not being given the respect and dignity
:23:54. > :24:00.that you deserve? That was on target that was not realistic
:24:00. > :24:03.enough? I absolutely, there are as a general acceptance that you wait
:24:03. > :24:08.for equipment. I do not think you should wait unless it is a very
:24:08. > :24:14.complex issue. When you need something that is either brought in
:24:14. > :24:19.or something that has to be purpose-built. But the railway
:24:19. > :24:24.targets, respite care packages, the number of packages did not meet
:24:24. > :24:34.targets. That is vitally important for people, for families who need
:24:34. > :24:34.
:24:34. > :24:38.respite. It is only a couple of weeks and people need that. If
:24:38. > :24:43.they're under the pressure of depression or under pressure as
:24:43. > :24:49.families. And too much is expected of people in care and not enough
:24:49. > :24:51.divot -- dignity is given to disabled people. Should we not be
:24:51. > :24:55.shutting us from the rooftops? These targets have not been
:24:55. > :25:00.reached? We are and my colleague raised this as a point of order
:25:00. > :25:06.with the Speaker today. He is a vice-chair of the OFM-DFM committee
:25:06. > :25:11.and he will raise those issues and they do expect Peter Robinson to
:25:11. > :25:15.come to the chamber and explained to the members why are these
:25:15. > :25:21.targets were set out why many of them simply have failed us. It
:25:21. > :25:24.isn't just important health issues, there are a range of targets and we
:25:24. > :25:29.simply have not planting of trees, for example. That was not
:25:29. > :25:33.unrealistic. There are things that I accept that the economy has
:25:33. > :25:39.overtaken in relation to tourism. But all these things need to be met
:25:39. > :25:42.and we need to have a collective -- explanations given to us. Can MLAs
:25:42. > :25:49.multitask? Should they be working on tablet devices and phones in the
:25:49. > :25:51.chamber? An eagle-eyed Sinn Fein MLA and viewer of this programme
:25:51. > :25:56.last night noticed MLAs using technological devices during
:25:57. > :26:03.proceedings. I asked him if he was for or against it. I observed a
:26:03. > :26:08.number of MLAs using their iPhone and computers in the chamber. That
:26:08. > :26:11.isn't officially allowed but it does indicate that members want to
:26:12. > :26:15.use these devices in the chamber and want to get on with working in
:26:16. > :26:20.the chamber and as a modern assembly we need to allow that and
:26:20. > :26:26.we need to facilitate that. Are you aware of the rules and regulations
:26:26. > :26:30.in other places? Westminster and the Dail, for instance? In Wales,
:26:30. > :26:34.that is a very good example. Laptops and computers are used
:26:34. > :26:39.within the chamber and actually, it does increase the number of elected
:26:39. > :26:43.members to stay in the chamber. What you find is that members have
:26:43. > :26:46.an increasing workload which is electronic, through e-mail, and the
:26:46. > :26:52.need to be able to deal with that rather than leaving the chamber I'm
:26:52. > :26:57.going to other officers to do this work. If we can work in the chamber,
:26:57. > :27:02.we can also listen to debates and multi- task and all the rest of
:27:02. > :27:07.that. In a modern assembly, people expect us to do work and that work
:27:07. > :27:12.should be facilitated. She people not listen to other members? You
:27:12. > :27:16.talk about multi-tasking but if you're concentrating on e-mails or
:27:16. > :27:22.looking at other business, is at the time and place to be doing
:27:23. > :27:27.that? Should you not engage in the debates? You can tipple. Computers
:27:27. > :27:35.can actually help with the betting because if you listen and here and
:27:35. > :27:41.relevant point, you can research that. Using your computer. It will
:27:41. > :27:49.inform members and will prove to be a oven assistance rather than
:27:49. > :27:51.hundreds. When you go to this bigger or the Commission? I have
:27:51. > :27:55.raced this on a number of occasions with the Assembly commission and
:27:55. > :28:03.they informed me that this will be raised on 27th February at a
:28:03. > :28:07.meeting. A number of members want to facilitate this request and on
:28:07. > :28:12.television, you can see members of every party already doing this, so
:28:12. > :28:17.there is no reason why it could not be part of the mainstream.
:28:17. > :28:25.final thought? What happens with the Welfare Reform Bill? Do you sit
:28:25. > :28:29.on the sidelines? We are actively lobbying at ministerial level but
:28:29. > :28:35.we need to lobby to make sure that this bill for Northern Ireland does
:28:35. > :28:40.not go through in an accelerated passage way. We need to look at the
:28:40. > :28:45.various clauses and the regulations, because often it is the practice
:28:45. > :28:49.that is important. The key very much for being with us tonight. --