:00:25. > :00:28.Hello and welcome to Stormont Today. And after a weekend of
:00:28. > :00:31.commemorations for the victims of the Titanic disaster, the Assembly
:00:31. > :00:41.returned after its Easter break giving MLAs a chance to pay their
:00:41. > :00:43.
:00:43. > :00:47.tributes. But do we need yet another commemorative plaque?
:00:47. > :00:50.small memorial, because within the hall Stormont building, we don't
:00:50. > :00:54.have anything that commemorates the Titanic.
:00:54. > :01:00.Yet it was the issue of more recent victims which dominated business in
:01:00. > :01:04.the chamber. Information is the key to progress, and I want to take
:01:04. > :01:09.this opportunity to renew the call for information in relation to
:01:09. > :01:11.those victims whose remains have not yet been recovered.
:01:12. > :01:21.And from the victims' organisation Wave, Sandra Peake is my guest
:01:21. > :01:23.Assembly members are back from the Easter break and top of the agenda
:01:23. > :01:28.today was victims. Specifically those who were disappeared during
:01:28. > :01:30.the Troubles. There's still seven families seeking the remains of
:01:30. > :01:35.their loved ones. And during today's debate, there was praise
:01:35. > :01:42.for the victims group Wave. And joining me now is the
:01:42. > :01:48.organisation's chief executive, Sandra Peake. Welcome to the
:01:48. > :01:53.programme. Sandra, what is Wave's role in helping the disappeared?
:01:53. > :02:03.have worked with the families of the disappeared since the 1990s,
:02:03. > :02:06.initially in a support context. Brian McKinney's mother came to us
:02:06. > :02:11.early on, and was very clear that she was looking for his body and
:02:11. > :02:15.wanted to know what had happened to him. I wasn't sure how we could
:02:15. > :02:21.help initially, but we began to work together, and through that, we
:02:21. > :02:25.met the other families and formed a support group which was very much
:02:25. > :02:31.about reducing isolation. Remind us again where were are with this
:02:31. > :02:37.issue. I understand there will be developments soon. Work is imminent
:02:37. > :02:44.and with that the commission in relation hopefully to one family
:02:44. > :02:47.case. It is hoped that there will be further work. Our hope is that
:02:47. > :02:55.all seven will be returned home for Christian burials with their
:02:55. > :03:02.families. We have a very specialist commission with specialist skills
:03:02. > :03:07.and knowledge. They have the technology and funding, but what
:03:07. > :03:12.they need is more information. That is the thing which is most
:03:12. > :03:22.important at present. You listened to the debate today along with some
:03:22. > :03:32.
:03:32. > :03:36.of the families. What does it mean to them to have this debate? It was
:03:36. > :03:40.good for them to listen. There is a sense that they have some
:03:40. > :03:44.recognition now, and a sense that debate is important for the
:03:44. > :03:52.families, and to know that they are recognised. How difficult was it to
:03:52. > :04:00.get the debate? In relation to Dominic Bradley, it is because of
:04:00. > :04:09.his work within the area and families, I suppose that we are
:04:09. > :04:13.very keen on pushing the issue and highlighting that we have
:04:13. > :04:23.commissioned an independent commission for the disappeared.
:04:23. > :04:26.That is what today's debate was about. Her OK, Sandra. Let's hear
:04:26. > :04:32.some of the debate today. And we start with Dominic Bradley, who
:04:32. > :04:37.proposed the motion. It was people from Northern Ireland and from the
:04:37. > :04:40.public who were responsible for the disappearances. Their other people
:04:40. > :04:45.who have the information and can bring the suffering of the families
:04:45. > :04:49.to the end. I want to place on record our thanks to all of those
:04:49. > :04:55.who have come forward to date with information leading to the recovery
:04:55. > :05:02.of remains. That is the key word - information. Information is the key
:05:02. > :05:06.to progress. I want to take this opportunity to renew the call for
:05:06. > :05:11.information in relation to those whose remains have not been
:05:11. > :05:15.recovered. Now is the time for those who have said nothing or who
:05:15. > :05:23.have not said enough to come forward and speak and give
:05:23. > :05:29.information. As the victims commissioner in 2008, I attended a
:05:29. > :05:32.funeral mass for a young lad who was disappeared longer than he was
:05:32. > :05:36.alive - 21 years old when he was killed, but not buried for a
:05:36. > :05:42.further 27 years. I will never forget the picture they used at the
:05:42. > :05:45.Requiem Mass, the picture of a young man entering his twenties,
:05:45. > :05:50.not the picture of a man being buried nearly 50 years after he was
:05:50. > :05:57.born. The family had no choice, because for those 27 years, they
:05:57. > :06:00.had no picture, because he was dead but not buried. It was a stark
:06:01. > :06:08.visual reminder of how unnatural, inhuman and perverted it is to
:06:08. > :06:12.disappear somebody. These bodies would disappear by being buried in
:06:12. > :06:22.secret locations, and that is part of the trauma that the families
:06:22. > :06:22.
:06:22. > :06:28.have endured. It is an injustice. I do repeat and re iterate... Were at
:06:28. > :06:34.the member like to withdraw the statement that he made in January
:06:34. > :06:39.2005 that the killing of Jean McConville was not a criminal act?
:06:39. > :06:44.Or is it still the position of Sinn Fein that that vile murder was in
:06:44. > :06:48.some way justified? Because it was not a criminal act, and if that is
:06:48. > :06:54.the member's stance, then so much of what he says today has no
:06:54. > :06:59.credibility. I think the Member for that intervention. I have to reply
:06:59. > :07:03.in this way. I will address that issue in the context of a process
:07:03. > :07:08.of truth recovery and a process of genuine reconciliation. That would
:07:08. > :07:12.mean that I could expect from all sections around this room, people
:07:12. > :07:16.to acknowledge the role of the British security services in
:07:16. > :07:25.procuring murder and procuring collusion with the murder gangs,
:07:25. > :07:29.and we address all of those issues... At the beginning of this
:07:29. > :07:33.debate, are asked members to refrain and be careful of what they
:07:33. > :07:41.said that they would not jeopardise any future proceedings. I asked the
:07:41. > :07:46.remember -- the member to remember that. I think we do need to have a
:07:47. > :07:51.truth recovery process in which all will come to that table. And number
:07:51. > :08:01.of years ago, I was contacted by one of the family is that we
:08:01. > :08:06.
:08:06. > :08:16.disappeared, the McVeigh family. -- that were disappeared. I met the
:08:16. > :08:19.
:08:19. > :08:23.late Mrs McRae. Writer way I could see on the elderly woman's face the
:08:23. > :08:28.trauma, the distress, the agony, and she was pleading for the return
:08:28. > :08:34.of the body of her son before she herself would pass away.
:08:34. > :08:39.Unfortunately, Mrs McRae has passed away, and she was never to realise
:08:39. > :08:48.that longing in ha-ha at to be reunited with the body of her son
:08:48. > :08:52.so that she could give him a burial, a Christian burial. Sandra, a very
:08:53. > :08:58.poignant story there, but she is not the only one who has passed
:08:58. > :09:07.away without seeing any progress. That is right. For those mothers of
:09:08. > :09:17.the disappeared, it is a very difficult and poignant journey.
:09:18. > :09:19.
:09:19. > :09:25.Kevin McKee's mother - he is still missing - she died before Christmas.
:09:25. > :09:35.Many of them mothers have put their sons names on headstones as a way
:09:35. > :09:36.
:09:36. > :09:40.to try to end Sjoerd -- ensure that they will have a place of rest.
:09:40. > :09:44.heard during the debate that there was progress possibly imminent or
:09:44. > :09:50.some development imminent. Is there anywhere and -- anything else you
:09:50. > :09:57.can share with us? Hopefully work will take place in the near future,
:09:57. > :10:02.and I think that that will come into the public domain. The hope of
:10:02. > :10:06.all families when they see work commence is that they will be next.
:10:06. > :10:16.Our need is to keep continuing to work on the issue to make sure that
:10:16. > :10:18.
:10:18. > :10:21.there is further progress. And sometimes when you least expect it,
:10:21. > :10:31.when a search has taken some time and families are beginning to think
:10:31. > :10:37.
:10:37. > :10:40.that they are not there, remains have been found. Thank you, Sandra.
:10:40. > :10:42.The reform of welfare and coping with its fallout is a major
:10:42. > :10:44.challenge facing the Assembly, as we've documented on this programme.
:10:44. > :10:47.We'll hear the the social development minister answering
:10:47. > :10:49.questions on that shortly, but first, did you know this island
:10:49. > :10:51.could be self-sufficient in electricity and could even become
:10:51. > :10:53.an exporter of power to other areas?
:10:53. > :11:00.Listen now to the environment minister.
:11:00. > :11:07.The answer is that in the 2010/2011 year, there were 639 planning
:11:07. > :11:11.applications for wind turbines, 620 for a single wind and 19
:11:11. > :11:15.applications for wind farms. In the period from April to December of
:11:15. > :11:22.the last business year, and figures for the last one had yet to be
:11:22. > :11:26.fully updated, during that nine- month period, there were 500
:11:26. > :11:34.applications for single wind farm turbines, 29 applications for wind
:11:34. > :11:38.farms. Those figures do not take into account other renewable
:11:38. > :11:45.applications for anaerobic do jesters and other renewable
:11:45. > :11:54.opportunities. But the scale of the opportunities both in the preceding
:11:54. > :12:00.year and in the the period up to September last year, it confirms to
:12:00. > :12:07.me that renewables remains of this island's and the north of this
:12:07. > :12:12.island's single biggest opportunity. Could the minister at this point in
:12:12. > :12:16.time give us a figure as regards to how many of these multiple
:12:16. > :12:20.applications are within this boundary? I certainly will be able
:12:20. > :12:29.to break it down, but not right at this moment. I will come back to
:12:29. > :12:33.the member in that regard. Behind the question, there is this. That
:12:33. > :12:38.we have been the test-bed for renewable wind applications in
:12:38. > :12:46.Northern Ireland. If you look at the map in respect of wind farm and
:12:46. > :12:50.wind turbine applications, you will perceive that it is in this Berens
:12:50. > :12:56.where the single greatest concentration of applications and
:12:56. > :13:00.approvals are demonstrated. And in that regard, we need to learn from
:13:00. > :13:06.that experience, to ensure that every opportunity as the
:13:06. > :13:09.opportunities for wind farms spread to the east, and as opportunities
:13:09. > :13:14.begin to develop for offshore at the end of this colour the year, we
:13:14. > :13:17.need to learn from that experience in order to ensure that everybody -
:13:17. > :13:22.- every reasonable opportunity is grasped in a way that local
:13:22. > :13:28.communities can with live with that doesn't come at a price of natural
:13:28. > :13:35.beauty, and yet seizes this opportunity for the people of the
:13:35. > :13:40.North. It is the case that when it comes to wind, wave and tide, and
:13:40. > :13:45.in the future, thermal as well, the opportunities for this island over
:13:45. > :13:50.the next 10 or 20 years are to become self-sufficient in terms of
:13:50. > :13:54.electricity and indeed become a net exporter of electricity. It is
:13:54. > :14:03.something that our governments are beginning to grasp and need to more
:14:03. > :14:08.On to social development and the reform of housing benefit which
:14:08. > :14:13.will see people under 35 per one living alone are having their
:14:13. > :14:18.benefit reduced. The precise effect of welfare reform on tenants more
:14:18. > :14:22.widely is not known. My department is taking steps to identify what
:14:22. > :14:28.services and support need to be put in place to assist those who are
:14:28. > :14:31.impacted by the changes. This will include assessing the adequacy of
:14:31. > :14:41.shared and smaller homes and the house and strategy will address
:14:41. > :14:42.
:14:42. > :14:52.this question further. SPEAKS GAELIC thank you, Mr Speaker and
:14:52. > :14:55.
:14:55. > :15:05.the Minister for his answer. What exactly will his department did to
:15:05. > :15:10.prevent increased homelessness? have given in the initial answer
:15:10. > :15:17.the figures for the number of properties that there are already
:15:17. > :15:23.in multiple occupation which has 398. In terms of other things that
:15:23. > :15:26.can be done, we have certainly spoken very clearly to Housing
:15:26. > :15:30.Executive and the housing associations in regard to the type
:15:30. > :15:34.of accommodation that they include in their social housing development
:15:34. > :15:38.plan so that in bringing a forward they take account of welfare reform,
:15:38. > :15:45.rather than simply bringing forward a plan based on the situation as it
:15:45. > :15:50.was before and I am awaiting the final outcome of that plan in the
:15:50. > :15:57.very near future. In terms of also helping people in the interim
:15:57. > :16:01.period, there are a number of measures that can be undertaken and
:16:01. > :16:08.the discretionary fund is one of those. We are working in that
:16:08. > :16:14.regard. There is already some level of provision. But I have 10th so
:16:14. > :16:20.size -- I have to emphasise that detailed provision is not available
:16:20. > :16:28.and secondly, the exact implications of welfare reform on
:16:28. > :16:34.housing, when we re over in London recently talking with Department
:16:34. > :16:40.for Work and Pensions, that was one area where there was the highest
:16:40. > :16:44.level of uncertainty. And why are so many homes lying empty when
:16:44. > :16:48.people are queuing up for somewhere to live? And impatient Mike Nesbitt
:16:48. > :16:53.wanted to know. The indeed, if the member looks down the list of
:16:53. > :16:57.questions today, he will see there are questions specifically on the
:16:57. > :17:00.issue of empty homes and we are operating two pilot schemes to see
:17:00. > :17:07.what is the best way in the Northern Ireland context of
:17:07. > :17:12.addressing the issue of empty homes. There are a number of issues where
:17:12. > :17:16.there are -- areas where there are a concentration of empty homes. We
:17:16. > :17:19.need to address that. What other reasons why they are lying vacant
:17:19. > :17:26.and what can be done to get them back into use as quickly as
:17:26. > :17:30.possible? Once we have complete the -- completed the pilot scheme, or
:17:30. > :17:36.we will be in a position to go on to the next stage.
:17:36. > :17:42.There were two new boys starting at Stormont Today. Retired school
:17:42. > :17:46.principal and retired principal Sean Rogers replaced Margaret
:17:46. > :17:51.Ritchie and Chris has it, a PhD student takes over from Willie
:17:51. > :17:56.Clarke, who stepped down in favour of his council work -- Chris hazard.
:17:56. > :18:02.I caught up with them. delighted in be here in the
:18:02. > :18:07.Assembly. I know have a hard act to follow but I'm looking forward to
:18:07. > :18:10.the challenge and I am delighted and feel honoured to represent the
:18:10. > :18:15.people of South Down. As a young person I am hoping to get more
:18:15. > :18:20.young people involved. There is this idea that young people do not
:18:20. > :18:25.see this as somewhere they can come to, and get involved in politics.
:18:26. > :18:30.I'm hoping I can help lead that. Economy is at the forefront of all
:18:30. > :18:35.of our minds. What you have to offer? I think I bring my
:18:35. > :18:40.experience as a parent, as an educationalist but most importantly
:18:40. > :18:44.as a community worker in my parish and my football club. These are
:18:44. > :18:47.challenging times, particularly on this day when we are at --
:18:47. > :18:53.remembering the Titanic in the chamber, there are two aspects that
:18:54. > :18:57.I want to bring to your attention in terms of Southdown. It is
:18:58. > :19:04.fantastic to bring tourists into Northern Ireland and let Titanic be
:19:04. > :19:11.a springboard to bring tourists to all the parts of the area from
:19:11. > :19:17.Downpatrick down to Newry. Love aspect as well is on that Titanic
:19:17. > :19:22.disaster across the Atlantic, there were 120 people in third class from
:19:22. > :19:30.Ireland who were going to find a better life in America. History is
:19:30. > :19:34.repeating itself. Four out of my family work outside this country.
:19:34. > :19:38.26 members of my football club are now in Australia because there is
:19:38. > :19:44.no work in this country. I want to get jobs on the agenda. Whether
:19:44. > :19:49.that is tourism, aggro Foods, the opportunities are there in
:19:49. > :19:54.sustainable energy to bring jobs to South Down. Sinn Fein are making
:19:54. > :19:57.much of that Chris as a young person, the SDLP are missing a
:19:58. > :20:04.trick because there was a young person he wanted the job, Colin
:20:04. > :20:08.McGrath? Yes, I was selected by the party which ran on at about but I
:20:08. > :20:13.bring my experience to this job. seemed a bit anxious to get up here,
:20:13. > :20:17.there was speculation that you were unhappy that Margaret Ritchie was
:20:17. > :20:21.taking her time to step aside? Don't believe everything you
:20:21. > :20:25.reading the papers. I am happy to work closely with Margaret and
:20:25. > :20:30.Karen, the three SDLP representatives in South Down.
:20:30. > :20:35.Chris, some people said you were tipped to take on Margaret Ritchie?
:20:35. > :20:42.I don't know about that. I have a big job on my hands here getting
:20:42. > :20:46.settled into the Assembly. Westminster is a while away now.
:20:46. > :20:51.The tide is starting to turn in South Down. Sinn Fein has been
:20:51. > :20:55.making massive progress. There are big prospects in the future for
:20:55. > :21:05.Sinn Fein, right across the island but in areas like Southdown we are
:21:05. > :21:09.starting to grow. We are waiting for them, we are happier.
:21:09. > :21:13.MLAs and Assembly staff held a special prayer of remembrance for
:21:13. > :21:16.the victims of the Titanic. And in the debating chamber, members
:21:16. > :21:22.called for any further marking of the anniversary to be a dignified
:21:22. > :21:24.tribute to those who have lost their lives. I have already
:21:24. > :21:31.mentioned the financial support that the Assembly has given to
:21:31. > :21:35.Titanic Belfast and I think we should look at the Assembly
:21:35. > :21:40.Commission may be to investigate the potential of some sort of
:21:40. > :21:44.memorial, a small memorial. Within the whole Stormont building we do
:21:44. > :21:48.not have anything that marks the Titanic and I think that is very
:21:48. > :21:52.sad. But I think it is fitting that we have the opportunity to speak
:21:52. > :21:56.about the Titanic in the Northern Ireland Assembly today, nearly to
:21:56. > :22:01.the day that she was lost and to celebrate the launch as well, to
:22:01. > :22:05.remember those lives. The ceremony earlier today, and can I thank the
:22:05. > :22:09.Speaker and his office for organising such a solemn and moving
:22:09. > :22:18.cross-party event, it was definitely a tribute to this House
:22:18. > :22:23.about how we can come together and celebrate joint events. This is a
:22:23. > :22:27.tragedy for which really nobody was to blame, except in nature, it
:22:27. > :22:33.marks the beginning though for all of us of a decade of what may well
:22:34. > :22:41.be much more contentious commemoration. And what we might
:22:41. > :22:47.take from the Titanic story is the simple fact of the level of the
:22:47. > :22:53.individual and family, all lost as equally tragic. We need to show the
:22:53. > :22:59.same respect for all of those who lost lives in the ensuing years
:22:59. > :23:03.after 1912 and for all the families who suffered loss, just the same as
:23:03. > :23:11.today, we are thinking of and commemorating those people who
:23:11. > :23:15.found a cold grave, those 1570 souls who found a cold grave in the
:23:16. > :23:21.Atlantic. I do believe I am the only person here who worked in a
:23:22. > :23:31.shipyard and that may surprise a lot of people. Can I just say that
:23:32. > :23:32.
:23:32. > :23:40.the Titanic itself was launched on 31st May 1911. It lost -- it sank
:23:40. > :23:43.with the loss of 1517 people. Little did the world know that one
:23:44. > :23:49.of the biggest events in the Millennium had occurred.
:23:49. > :23:52.We heard therefore I call for a Titanic memorial here at Stormont.
:23:52. > :23:56.What do you think about that? suppose the commemoration events
:23:56. > :24:00.over the last few days have been important and when you think we are
:24:00. > :24:04.marking 100 years. It is interesting because it in the
:24:04. > :24:07.context of education, children are learning about the Titanic in
:24:07. > :24:13.schools so I suppose it has a symbolic gesture not only for those
:24:13. > :24:20.who are older but those who are younger. Regarding a commemoration
:24:20. > :24:25.here, I suppose that would be entirely appropriate. The list of
:24:25. > :24:29.names has appeared at City Hall. you think we will get a point where
:24:29. > :24:33.we have all the victims of the Troubles on one memorial? I would
:24:33. > :24:37.hope at some stage there would be something that people would view as
:24:37. > :24:42.a fitting form of acknowledgement for those who died. We must also
:24:42. > :24:45.remember those who were injured. The scale of injured his height but
:24:45. > :24:49.often we concentrate on those who have died but there are those who
:24:49. > :24:55.live with deeply embedded wounds and it is important to remove -- to
:24:55. > :24:58.remember them. Thank you. A new leader and a new
:24:58. > :25:05.broom - Mike Nesbitt has been making some changes in the Ulster
:25:05. > :25:09.Unionist Party. Earlier, Gareth gave me the latest update.
:25:09. > :25:15.Sir Reg Empey, as you and I know him, he is not coming back as party
:25:15. > :25:18.leader, he is coming back as Party Chairman. That is quite an own this
:25:18. > :25:23.task. The party confirmed his appointment this morning. What they
:25:23. > :25:28.did not tell us was that he was not the first choice. That was the
:25:28. > :25:32.former Party Chairman James Cooper. I interviewed the party leader this
:25:32. > :25:36.morning. He stopped short of confirming that. I certainly had a
:25:36. > :25:41.conversation with James Cooper and many conversations with different
:25:41. > :25:45.people. It is a bit of a jigsaw when you have four picks only. I
:25:45. > :25:51.could have used six or seven. Usain you did not offer the job of
:25:51. > :25:55.chairman to James Cooper? I am saying any discussions I had were
:25:55. > :26:00.private and confidential. I only have four picks. I had six or seven
:26:00. > :26:05.people I would love to have had on the team. I'm delighted Lord Empey
:26:05. > :26:09.has agreed to be Party Chairman. James Cooper has confirmed he was
:26:09. > :26:14.offered the job. I called James Cooper this afternoon and he said
:26:14. > :26:18.he had been offered it but he was too busy to take up the appointment.
:26:18. > :26:23.He said it was an important and challenging post and required, if
:26:23. > :26:33.not a permanent presence in Belfast, more of a presence than he could
:26:33. > :26:36.
:26:36. > :26:40.give it. He is a solicitor based in Enniskillen. Easts -- there was
:26:40. > :26:48.another possibility? Environment Minister is discussing
:26:48. > :26:54.ways of curbing illegal drinking and Joanne Dobson is concerned that
:26:54. > :27:01.Maisie affect newlyweds who have a drink in a private vehicle on their
:27:01. > :27:05.way to the reception -- that may affect. And case anyone worried
:27:05. > :27:08.that Joanne Dobson is asking about this on her own behalf, I can
:27:08. > :27:12.confirm she got married many years ago.
:27:12. > :27:17.We were talking about the importance of information and
:27:17. > :27:22.helping families of the disappeared get peace, what can you offer
:27:22. > :27:28.families who might have some information? There is a process in
:27:28. > :27:33.place which protects individuals. It can only be used to protect
:27:33. > :27:37.people who are missing. It is important for anyone to cast their
:27:37. > :27:41.mind back. Something could seem very insignificant but would be
:27:41. > :27:45.important for the Commission. It is important we get information
:27:45. > :27:49.through the channels which are available. There is a number which
:27:49. > :27:53.people can phone confidentially and assist us with the process. There
:27:53. > :27:57.are some developments in the next year because there is a book coming
:27:57. > :28:03.out on the disappeared. We are conscious that the families have
:28:03. > :28:08.been keen to show a -- share their story. A number of families have
:28:08. > :28:12.been recording their stories in a book. That is about the human
:28:12. > :28:21.Saidabad to be missing were in their families, in terms of being
:28:21. > :28:27.brothers, sisters, daughters, sons. -- that is that the human side.
:28:27. > :28:32.Some of them were only 16 up? of them had learning difficulties
:28:32. > :28:36.and other issues. That is a very startling thing. Some of these
:28:36. > :28:39.folks have been missing longer than they were alive. For the families,
:28:39. > :28:43.they are very much bare and the families want to bring them home
:28:44. > :28:47.and it is right and fitting that they did. I'm sure we will hear