:00:30. > :00:35.edition of Stormont Today as the Assembly is we called for the second
:00:35. > :00:40.time in two weeks. On the agenda, the Ardoyne Parade ruling and the
:00:40. > :00:50.violence that followed. It is not a shared future without loyalist hands
:00:50. > :00:51.
:00:51. > :00:55.men and women, if you cannot share a road or a street. I am not up for
:00:55. > :01:01.holy statues appearing on bonfires, for if it is of working priest,
:01:01. > :01:07.people well respected, being part of that, if that can be described at
:01:08. > :01:13.all as culture. So MLAs have had to delay their
:01:13. > :01:18.holidays for another week as the Assembly was recalled for the second
:01:18. > :01:21.time and when MLAs written, so do we. To date members were discussing
:01:21. > :01:24.a motion calling the Parades Commission ruling on the Ardoyne
:01:24. > :01:29.July 12 parade illogical. That mission was tabled before the
:01:29. > :01:37.weekend violence which prompted an amendment from Sinn came. He is
:01:37. > :01:44.Peter Robinson proposing the main motion. There were many who catch of
:01:44. > :01:50.words in the run-up to the 12th of July in terms of placing hope for
:01:51. > :01:54.that occasion. -- who placed our words. We had the experience of the
:01:54. > :02:02.previous year. On the previous year, there have been a strange, some
:02:02. > :02:06.would say foolish, determination by the Parades Commission which
:02:06. > :02:12.required the Orange marches that normally would have taken that route
:02:12. > :02:21.to be there at a time that I suspect Mo Farah could not have reached on
:02:21. > :02:25.foot from the field. Yet in spite of the determination that was made, the
:02:25. > :02:33.Orange institution did try and resolve the difficulty that they
:02:33. > :02:38.faced. They sent their officers by transport. They walked the route
:02:38. > :02:45.home and they did so in a peaceful and dignified way, keeping the
:02:46. > :02:48.Parades Commission determination. Given those circumstances one might
:02:48. > :02:52.have assumed that if the Parades Commission were to look at the issue
:02:52. > :02:58.of the parade itself, there could only be one outcome that they would
:02:58. > :03:02.reach and that was that you should reward those who kept the
:03:02. > :03:05.determination and punish those who did not. Yet what did the Parades
:03:05. > :03:11.Commission do on this occasion? Readily be opposite. They rewarded
:03:11. > :03:17.those who had reached the Parades Commission determination, who had
:03:17. > :03:22.opened up on the police, and they punished those who kept the
:03:22. > :03:27.determination on that boat had been a difficulty termination to keep. --
:03:27. > :03:32.although it had been. I do not think anyone who takes a ceremonial sword
:03:32. > :03:36.to be head of a police officer can find anywhere more suitable to be
:03:36. > :03:42.done in prison. It is not a shared future without the Orange
:03:42. > :03:48.institution. Without loyalist bans men and women. If you cannot share a
:03:48. > :03:52.road or a street. If you have to share somebody else's ideology
:03:52. > :03:57.before you can have it. So let's be be about the shared future must be
:03:57. > :04:02.bombed the whole community can feel a part of, that they feel there is
:04:02. > :04:09.some, yes, equality, in terms of the sharing. Our political correspondent
:04:09. > :04:12.is with me. What were the key points in Peter Robinson's speech for you?
:04:12. > :04:19.He spoke about the need for a measured debate and I would say that
:04:19. > :04:22.by and large it was fairly measured. He made the point that the DUP
:04:22. > :04:27.demotion was drafted some days ago and I think that is one of the
:04:28. > :04:32.recent estimate by the motion did not include the condemnation of
:04:32. > :04:37.violence but the First Minister made it clear it was not okayed to attack
:04:37. > :04:43.a police officer with a sword, and condemned the violence of people
:04:43. > :04:46.going about their business, including Nigel Dodds who was at the
:04:46. > :04:54.scene. He also pointed up to the Orange Order to come up with ideas
:04:54. > :04:58.for the forthcoming multiparty talks this autumn. They will be chaired by
:04:58. > :05:01.American Richard Haass. He said that the grand Lodge have defeated
:05:01. > :05:06.previous proposals to replace the Parades Commission so he is looking
:05:06. > :05:11.to them to come up with an alternative. He also spoke about how
:05:11. > :05:15.Richard Haass was the first choice to chaired these talks. He's in town
:05:15. > :05:18.tomorrow to talk to the parties. He said it was vital everyone committed
:05:18. > :05:24.themselves to resolving the issues, and noted Richard Haass was giving
:05:24. > :05:29.his time for free, he did not want to be paid. He also made the point
:05:29. > :05:37.that it is not a shared future, as you heard, if you cannot share the
:05:37. > :05:41.road, if you cannot have loyalist bands. Peter Robinson was talking
:05:41. > :05:46.through the main motion. Talk us through Sinn Fein's amendment.
:05:46. > :05:51.Sinn Fein motion replaced almost all the words of the DUP motion and made
:05:51. > :05:55.a number of points. It noted the determination of the Parades
:05:55. > :06:00.Commission Re: the three lodges in Ardoyne. It supported efforts for a
:06:00. > :06:05.resolution. It condemned the orchestrated attacks on the police
:06:05. > :06:08.and community and it linked those attacks to the Orange Order's
:06:08. > :06:13.refusal to accept the determination of the Parades Commission. It called
:06:13. > :06:17.for respect and tolerance for all. The shared future requires mutual
:06:17. > :06:22.respect. It also made the key point that Gerry Adams made yesterday that
:06:23. > :06:30.the answer to this is dialogue. They called for immediate dialogue at
:06:30. > :06:37.community level. We heard from several members. We will hear more
:06:37. > :06:39.on that throughout the programme. It was very obvious approach in
:06:40. > :06:46.Parliament buildings today that there was a protest taking place at
:06:46. > :06:48.the foot of the steps. A lot of police presence around and some
:06:48. > :06:58.protesters with likes. Who were they and what were they demonstrating
:06:58. > :07:02.about? I saw a banner to do with flags. There was a couple of dozen
:07:02. > :07:08.people there. Some were coming and going. They were coming in to be
:07:08. > :07:18.said is' galleries to watch the debate. I noticed that the DQ P self
:07:18. > :07:19.
:07:19. > :07:24.Belfast -- DUP South Belfast politician had attended. Protesters
:07:24. > :07:30.said they did not want Sinn Fein's Gerry Kelly of the cork on this
:07:30. > :07:34.issue. Let's hear some of Gerry Kelly's contribution as he spoke in
:07:34. > :07:44.favour of the amendment. Sustained attacks on people within the
:07:44. > :07:45.
:07:45. > :07:49.community. I have to say that the Orange Order can't is associate
:07:49. > :07:56.themselves from that because it was obvious that there were Orange Order
:07:56. > :08:01.people involved. -- is associate. have to say that it was clearly
:08:01. > :08:08.planned. People talk about whether that was or wasn't a planned but to
:08:08. > :08:12.bring the type of crowd that was brought was really planned. There
:08:12. > :08:18.was a notion that it was inevitable. I do not think it was inevitable.
:08:18. > :08:28.Certainly once you put those there it was inevitable. There was a pipe
:08:28. > :08:32.bomb attack and I absolutely condemn it. I am absolutely up for it and
:08:32. > :08:37.agree with Peter Robinson that the Orange Order and the residents and
:08:37. > :08:43.everybody else in our society has to be part of the future, and know what
:08:43. > :08:51.is arguing against that. But it also calls for talks. I would argue that
:08:51. > :08:56.it has to be based on the quality. We have to defend that as well. --
:08:56. > :09:03.based on equality. I am not up for sectarianism or racism, no matter
:09:03. > :09:09.where it comes from. I am not up for holy statues appearing on bonfires.
:09:09. > :09:14.I am not up for effigies of working priests, people well respected,
:09:14. > :09:20.being part of that, that can be described at all as culture. There
:09:20. > :09:25.is no Republican war on the culture of British national loyalism or
:09:26. > :09:34.anything else. I think it is believed in a wide range of people
:09:34. > :09:40.because it is handled by people who should know better in leadership. --
:09:40. > :09:49.peddled. It is a fact, as we stand here, that 95%, and we go back to
:09:49. > :09:55.last December, 95% of all the regalia is in the City Hall yet we
:09:55. > :10:02.are almost 50-50 in this city. We have to talk about not just British
:10:02. > :10:08.and but what is Irishness? Where is the respect for Irishness? We need
:10:08. > :10:12.to defend it better than we have defended it up until now. Sinn
:10:12. > :10:15.Fein's Gerry Kelly. Although Mike Nesbitt was supporting the motion,
:10:15. > :10:23.the Ulster Unionist Party death have strong criticism about some of the
:10:23. > :10:29.11th night bonfires and we hear this comment after the STL P's North
:10:30. > :10:35.Belfast MLA. It was a compromise effectively.
:10:35. > :10:42.That decision was that the orange could march down the road on the
:10:42. > :10:48.morning of the trial. But they were not permitted to mark up again. --
:10:48. > :10:52.the Orange could mark down the road on the 12th of July. It was a good
:10:52. > :10:57.compromise to try to resolve the situation this year and it is wrong
:10:57. > :11:03.as politicians to undermine the Parades Commission by that sort of
:11:03. > :11:06.overt criticism by the First Minister. The people of Ardoyne have
:11:06. > :11:12.suffered too much over too many years. They have suffered
:11:12. > :11:18.triumphalism. They have suffered from sectarian abuse. There is a
:11:18. > :11:24.whole history, a whole history of the people of Ardoyne bearing the
:11:24. > :11:27.brunt of abuse. And I believe that those people deserve some
:11:27. > :11:34.consideration, and they deserve liberation from the tragic history
:11:34. > :11:41.of the past. Mr Speaker, I understand that last week a
:11:41. > :11:50.religious icon was stolen and placed on an 11th night on fire. Can I make
:11:50. > :11:54.it clear that was not done in my name? I deplore that act. In a
:11:54. > :11:56.moment, Mr Humphries. I deplore that act and I want to acknowledge the
:11:56. > :12:02.clear hurt that would have been caused within the Catholic
:12:02. > :12:11.community. I understand that there was some sort of Hallows on a
:12:11. > :12:16.bonfire. -- gallows. That has been taken as a reference to a well liked
:12:16. > :12:19.and popular priest who took his own life recently. That was not done in
:12:19. > :12:26.my name, and I acknowledge the deep hurt in the Catholic community over
:12:26. > :12:29.that. I deplore all sectarian acts including those recently by
:12:29. > :12:34.nationalists, attacks on Orange halls which there have been
:12:34. > :12:38.recently, but also the burning of the Irish national flag. Those
:12:38. > :12:44.comments spot a response from the DUP's William Humphrey, which in
:12:44. > :12:51.turn led to some of the sharpest part of the debate.
:12:51. > :12:58.I spoke to the gentleman last night who returned the icon to Father Gary
:12:59. > :13:04.Donegan at Holycross Chapel. The icon was thrown into the bonfire by
:13:04. > :13:08.people in the North. It is factual. I spoke to the gentleman who
:13:08. > :13:18.returned it and he took it to Father Gary Donegan. That is a
:13:18. > :13:18.
:13:19. > :13:27.conversation. Order! Point of order. We do not enjoy in this house the
:13:27. > :13:33.right to be arrogant and abusive and insulting. Nor do we enjoy...
:13:33. > :13:39.Order! Nor do we enjoy the right to go against what was published on the
:13:39. > :13:46.front page of the newspaper. Order! The member has got it now on the
:13:47. > :13:51.record. Let's move on. But let us not abuse point of order. That is
:13:51. > :13:59.exactly what I feel may be happening. Let's move on. Order! Mr
:13:59. > :14:04.Kelly. Just to clear the situation, is to Humphries said it was thrown
:14:04. > :14:12.on the bonfire. Could Hicks Lane how in the photographs the statue is
:14:12. > :14:19.sitting upright in the plinth? -- could he explain? Let's get back to
:14:19. > :14:28.the motion before us. The speaker battling to maintain
:14:28. > :14:32.order. Father Gary Dunagan who was referred to in proceedings has
:14:32. > :14:36.attempted to clarify how the statue came to be on the bonfire. We heard
:14:36. > :14:39.what William Humphries said. phoned farther down again to see if
:14:39. > :14:44.there was any truth to the possibility that Republicans or
:14:44. > :14:48.people from elsewhere had thrown the statue on the fire. He said he
:14:48. > :14:53.disputed what Mr Humphreys said. He said his information was that petty
:14:53. > :14:57.criminals from the Republican side had stolen -- stolen a car and then
:14:57. > :15:02.swap the stolen car with petty criminals from the loyalist side and
:15:02. > :15:06.the statue was left in the back of a car. Presumably it was taken to the
:15:06. > :15:12.bonfire by loyalists. It was stolen by republican youths who were up to
:15:12. > :15:15.no good. He said that he was very relieved to get it back. He paid
:15:15. > :15:20.tribute to the good Samaritan, Wallace Thompson, who returned the
:15:20. > :15:23.statue. He said it had become the basis of his sermon last Sunday and
:15:23. > :15:29.he was having it repaired. If they didn't find the original owner, it
:15:29. > :15:32.would be placed in a garden. Once that row over the statue
:15:32. > :15:35.settles, it was David Forde 's chance to speak. He made it was
:15:35. > :15:38.David Forde 's chance to speak. You may it clear the Alliance party was
:15:38. > :15:42.supporting the amendment because expressed support for the parades
:15:42. > :15:46.commission. Over 90% of parades last Friday proceeded with no
:15:46. > :15:49.determination whatsoever. The great majority of those for which way
:15:49. > :15:54.determination were made did not require any significant policing
:15:54. > :15:56.effort. We are talking about a tiny number of restrictions and to
:15:56. > :16:04.suggest that is tantamount to restrictions on their culture is
:16:04. > :16:07.utter rubbish. The example I would put to you of your beaming space, as
:16:07. > :16:11.you personally walked across Craigavon Bridge, recorded by a
:16:12. > :16:15.television in your lodge, the Londonderry city grand Lodge,
:16:15. > :16:21.walking into parade within the walls of Derry, that's an example of what
:16:21. > :16:24.a shared future actually means. It is an example of negotiation,
:16:24. > :16:29.understanding, seeking to make accommodations and it has proven
:16:29. > :16:33.that it can work in Derry and there is no reason why it should not work
:16:33. > :16:37.in North and East Belfast as well. If only people were prepared to
:16:37. > :16:41.commit themselves. There is a place in a shared future for Orange
:16:41. > :16:45.culture. Just as there is a place for green culture and gay culture
:16:45. > :16:48.and every other kind of culture we might want to see.
:16:48. > :16:53.Two hours have been set aside for the debates are not everyone who
:16:53. > :16:59.wanted to speak was able to. It's often the smaller parties to get
:17:00. > :17:03.squeezed in such circumstances. The NI 21 leader Basil the great did get
:17:03. > :17:08.to take part and he rose to support the amendment. When I stand up and
:17:08. > :17:12.criticise, and I am criticising the Orange order, it is actually with
:17:12. > :17:17.their best interests at heart. to say to them, can you not please
:17:17. > :17:20.find a way to actually celebrate or culture, which you have an absolute
:17:20. > :17:26.right to do, which you can demonstrate how well it was done in
:17:26. > :17:31.Londonderry and another places? I'll have a speech which was given to me
:17:31. > :17:34.by Drew Nelson when he spoke in Dublin. You talk about the history
:17:34. > :17:38.of the culture and all the issues. These things are all to be
:17:38. > :17:43.celebrated. But I have to tell you, if you are clicking the police, if
:17:43. > :17:46.you are attacking the police, if you are using defamatory language, you
:17:46. > :17:51.are saying the flanks protesters were right when they were wrong, if
:17:51. > :17:55.you are doing all of those things, you are doing it for your own
:17:55. > :17:57.selfish self-interest is not for the people of Northern Ireland. With the
:17:57. > :18:02.two-hour debate concludes, it was time for the summing up.
:18:02. > :18:07.Sammy Wilson did the honours for the DDP but first it was Sinn Fein 's
:18:07. > :18:17.Karen McKellen on the amendment. I do accept and I think it has
:18:17. > :18:17.
:18:17. > :18:21.been... The fact that the parades commission are the only show in town
:18:21. > :18:26.because there is no resolution with the loyal borders and some of the
:18:26. > :18:32.residents groups and until there are resolutions, then the parades
:18:33. > :18:37.commission will prevail. Then what happens is, when the parades
:18:37. > :18:41.commission make determinations, there is happiness on one side and
:18:41. > :18:46.unhappiness on another. I do understand the point that has been
:18:46. > :18:50.made because I share it. I believe it determination in relation to
:18:50. > :18:56.north Belfast was a compromise. I spoke to some of the residents, as
:18:56. > :19:01.did my colleague and others, and they weren't happy at all. But the
:19:01. > :19:08.maturity and leadership which they showed in their community,
:19:08. > :19:13.particularly around the residents group, I believe was a welcome move.
:19:13. > :19:18.It wasn't a popular move in the community. I can testify to that. I
:19:18. > :19:26.also want to pay tribute to the Orange marshals outside St Patrick's
:19:26. > :19:32.Church. Thank you. They tried their very best to do a good job. I want
:19:32. > :19:35.that on the record. I think they did and despite some challenging
:19:35. > :19:38.circumstances. There have been a number of issues which have been
:19:38. > :19:44.raised today. The first is the issue of the parades commission. We've had
:19:44. > :19:48.the usual people trotted out and trotting out their defence of the
:19:48. > :19:52.commission. I've got to say they've got a very short memories. Mr Kelly
:19:52. > :19:59.tells us that we should accept the parades commission. I can remember
:19:59. > :20:04.it wasn't so long ago that he was supporting residency judicially
:20:04. > :20:07.reviewed the decisions of the commission. I've heard Mr McGuinness
:20:07. > :20:10.criticise the parades commission. We are told by the justice minister
:20:10. > :20:14.that it is a legally constituted body and therefore deserves
:20:14. > :20:21.support. Can you not criticise a decision of a legally constituted
:20:21. > :20:31.body? People criticise his department, my department, all other
:20:31. > :20:36.
:20:36. > :20:43.departments. We of course now have NI 21. They cede the parades
:20:43. > :20:48.commission. They see them as featuring as part of the 21st
:20:48. > :20:51.century. Will God help us if we are stuck with it for the whole of the
:20:51. > :21:01.21st century. Our objective is to see that the parades commission
:21:01. > :21:03.
:21:03. > :21:07.goes. And we hope... Even though the shelflife of NI 21 might be assured,
:21:07. > :21:17.we hope that the shelflife of the parades commission would be even
:21:17. > :21:18.
:21:18. > :21:25.shorter and that's saying something. Now all we needed was a vote. Talk
:21:26. > :21:31.us through that amendment. The amendment was defeated by three
:21:31. > :21:34.votes, not surprisingly. Sinn Fein supporter dead. It also drew
:21:34. > :21:41.Alliance and support. Notably, to Unionists crossed the floor to
:21:41. > :21:45.support it. That's the new Unionist party, NI 21. They backed the Sinn
:21:45. > :21:48.Fein motion which supported the decision of the parades commission
:21:48. > :21:53.regarding Ardoyne. What about the results of the main motion itself?
:21:53. > :21:59.It's a very tight vote indeed. The motion from the DP passed by just
:21:59. > :22:06.one vote. Not surprisingly, it won support from the Unionist benches.
:22:07. > :22:15.The Greens, Stephen Agnew, he abstained. It was tight enough for
:22:15. > :22:19.the DP. Where does that leave us? It was a relatively anodyne motion. The
:22:19. > :22:24.most contentious line in it was that the parades commission decision was
:22:24. > :22:28.illogical. If it really had Nationalists exercised, they would
:22:28. > :22:32.have tabled a petition of concern. It is a victory of sorts for
:22:32. > :22:35.unionism. It would be difficult to block commission when there was a
:22:35. > :22:43.lot of people lecturing the people last week about using NAT device to
:22:43. > :22:48.block the motion. There was a lot more bite in all of that last week
:22:48. > :22:52.than today. Last week was much more tempestuous but it was an unusual
:22:52. > :22:56.debate last week. Obviously, there was an effort today to keep things
:22:56. > :23:00.measured. When things get heated at Stormont, it does translate to the
:23:00. > :23:07.streets. That was the assembly adjourned for the summer but the
:23:07. > :23:17.debate still -- spilled out into the great Hall both Willie Frazer
:23:17. > :23:18.
:23:18. > :23:21.confronting John McAllister. What I see... People are against everything
:23:21. > :23:31.and then they say what is your alternative? You don't have an
:23:31. > :23:31.
:23:31. > :23:37.alternative. Oh, yes, I do. Find a way of putting it forward. I can
:23:37. > :23:42.only talk to one person at a time. It was busy in the great Hall.
:23:42. > :23:47.do you make of that? William Fraser has a reputation not just as a
:23:47. > :23:50.protest but also a campaigner and someone who doorsteps politicians.
:23:50. > :23:55.Balance -- Basil McCrea does like the cameras. He is used to the
:23:55. > :23:58.cameras. He was able to hold his own. It all ended amicably with an
:23:58. > :24:03.agreement that they would have their debate in private, possibly even in
:24:03. > :24:07.the great Hall at some future date. I would say that there was a lot of
:24:07. > :24:11.interest in the great Hall in the drama and some suggestion that
:24:11. > :24:16.William Fraser might have been arrested. He was arrested on
:24:16. > :24:21.suspicion of breaching his bail conditions.
:24:21. > :24:24.There was one of the major development today as the SDLP
:24:24. > :24:31.revealed its new environment minister. It turned out to be a
:24:31. > :24:37.wedding present for the newly married Mark Durcan. Here's the
:24:37. > :24:46.party leader outlining why he chose him. I chose him because I came in
:24:46. > :24:55.quite simply 18 months ago and I had a clear commitment from day one.
:24:55. > :25:00.left Alex the first bite. I was moving and Mark Durcan is the face
:25:00. > :25:08.of youth, the face of energy, the face of the future of the SDLP. I'm
:25:08. > :25:13.very happy that he has agreed to become a minister. This is a
:25:13. > :25:18.strategic decision to bolster, to move on. I have very clear
:25:18. > :25:26.commitments about bringing in a new generation and creating space for a
:25:26. > :25:29.new generation. This is all part of that. Alex has prepared a bit of
:25:29. > :25:36.light reading for me. I've got quite a lot of catching up to do.
:25:36. > :25:44.Fortunately, I will have the benefit of Alex experience. I can rely on
:25:44. > :25:52.that. The new SDLP environment Minister, Alec -- marketed in. You
:25:52. > :25:58.have to feel sorry for his new wife, don't you? There had been a lot of
:25:58. > :26:03.speculation that the job would in fact go to Joe Byrne. What was
:26:03. > :26:08.Alistair MacDonald thinking of? We did say a couple of weeks ago on the
:26:08. > :26:11.sofa that Joe Byrne was the leader 's choice and he was indeed the
:26:11. > :26:16.leader 's choice. But once it became in the public domain, there were
:26:16. > :26:23.people in the party who felt they were better options. The leader has
:26:23. > :26:28.had quite a lot of people lobbying him in recent days. Mark Durcan, I
:26:28. > :26:33.heard his name last night. It was confirmed today. He ticks a lot of
:26:33. > :26:42.boxers. He has youth and energy on his side. He also is from the West.
:26:42. > :26:52.It's important strategically. I think that is what swung it. It was
:26:52. > :26:53.
:26:53. > :26:57.probably a copper mines between those who... -- a compromise. There
:26:57. > :27:02.is the legislation to reform the councils. That seems to be stuck in
:27:02. > :27:11.the office of the first Minister. He has planning to deal with. He said
:27:11. > :27:15.he wanted to pursue the same agenda that Alex Attwood had, green issues.
:27:15. > :27:19.We had the plastic bag tax. This was one big achievement that Alex
:27:19. > :27:24.Attwood will be remembered for because it certainly has impacted on
:27:24. > :27:31.our lives when they go shopping. I think he is hoping for a honeymoon
:27:31. > :27:35.period politically. He has got the summer to read in and I think
:27:35. > :27:39.because his wife used to be the SDLP press officer, she might be rather
:27:39. > :27:44.understanding. The good news for him is he doesn't have to make that
:27:44. > :27:49.drive now. He will have to drive to take into Stormont and he will be