:00:24. > :00:28.Hello and welcome to Stormont Today. Coming up in the programme: With
:00:29. > :00:36.council elections around the corner, the Assembly devotes two days to
:00:37. > :00:41.debating local government. Many people told us we wouldn't get to
:00:42. > :00:44.this point, that it would never be delivered.
:00:45. > :00:47.The Environment Minister expresses his dissatisfaction with the closure
:00:48. > :00:56.of the Driver Vehicle Agency in Coleraine. I am bitterly
:00:57. > :01:00.disappointed and angered by this decision which represents nothing
:01:01. > :01:04.more than a narrowly focused cost-cutting exercise made at the
:01:05. > :01:07.expense of high quality public services.
:01:08. > :01:11.And joining me with his views, the News Letter's political
:01:12. > :01:15.correspondent, Sam McBride. Today saw the start of a mammoth
:01:16. > :01:18.two-day session devoted to the consideration stage of the Local
:01:19. > :01:23.Government Bill. With 115 amendments to get through, the Assembly will
:01:24. > :01:24.sit again tomorrow. Much of today's debate concerned Alliance amendments
:01:25. > :01:38.allowing for photography and audio debate concerned Alliance amendments
:01:39. > :01:44.transparency'. Amendment 22 introduces a new clause seeking to
:01:45. > :01:48.require councils so far as is practical to make audio recordings
:01:49. > :01:52.of those parts of any council meeting excluding committee or
:01:53. > :01:57.subcommittee meetings which are open to the public. Such an approach can
:01:58. > :02:02.assist and provide clarity on the discussions that take place and help
:02:03. > :02:10.to support the new ethical standards framework by removing doubts over
:02:11. > :02:14.comments made. It is of concern that currently too many of our councils
:02:15. > :02:22.operate in a way which is not open and transparent to local residents.
:02:23. > :02:26.We too often see councils which seem convinced it is better to keep
:02:27. > :02:35.decisions quite and avoid too much fuss. A prime example of this is the
:02:36. > :02:41.existing council which has asked journalists to leave and regularly
:02:42. > :02:45.frustrated residents trying to observe council proceedings. Even if
:02:46. > :02:52.they are not disrupting proceedings in any detrimental way. It is also
:02:53. > :02:57.crucial that people are able to access minutes, agendas and
:02:58. > :03:01.background papers online so that we can take advantage of modern
:03:02. > :03:07.technology to disseminate information more widely and more
:03:08. > :03:11.quickly. Our amendments seek to make sure this is possible and taken
:03:12. > :03:17.together will increase transparency and access to information. Though
:03:18. > :03:25.review of the meetings except for small sections if we are in legal
:03:26. > :03:33.advice or getting closed section, a record for members. Why would we not
:03:34. > :03:38.want and welcome the openness and transparency and moving away from
:03:39. > :03:44.the idea of councils, councillors in a smoke-filled rooms doing
:03:45. > :03:50.the idea of councils, councillors in deals? The pro-smoking wing of the
:03:51. > :03:56.DUP has been extinguished now but I am not surprised they would still
:03:57. > :04:02.want, why they are fearful of the openness. Many people told us we
:04:03. > :04:08.wouldn't get this point, people told us our PA would never be delivered
:04:09. > :04:13.and while it sat on the shelf for too long, I think once the SDLP
:04:14. > :04:19.ministers came into office, the process moved very quickly and I
:04:20. > :04:24.think we're finally at a stage where we will have elections to new
:04:25. > :04:33.councils and a whole new era in terms of local government. The SDLP
:04:34. > :04:38.had reservations around some of the decisions that were previously taken
:04:39. > :04:40.by the executive around numbers of councils and everything but win
:04:41. > :04:47.assured we are absolutely committed to delivering what is an opportunity
:04:48. > :04:53.to have a once-in-a-lifetime review and change in terms of how we
:04:54. > :04:58.operate councils. Clearly this bill has come a long way, it is 14 years
:04:59. > :05:04.since the proposal was started off back in the year 2000 but we are
:05:05. > :05:11.where we are at this stage now. I would like to put on record firstly
:05:12. > :05:17.my somewhat this appointment at the bill coming at such a short notice
:05:18. > :05:21.last week and members and parties only had a day and a half to put
:05:22. > :05:28.forward their amendments. On Amendment 22, there seems to be a
:05:29. > :05:32.couple of issues, there does seem to be a high level of disparity of
:05:33. > :05:39.information in terms of the cost of this. It goes beyond getting the
:05:40. > :05:43.equipment, it goes to the use of the equipment, the maintenance and
:05:44. > :05:51.according to this, the publication of the recordings and websites. The
:05:52. > :06:02.reality is this is not just going to be a cheap solution and
:06:03. > :06:09.reality is this is not just going to ratepayers. I have heard some say
:06:10. > :06:15.suggesting that each council decide that themselves. Well, I must say I
:06:16. > :06:20.think that would be a recipe for grievance. Because take my
:06:21. > :06:27.constituency which will be in two different areas, are my constituency
:06:28. > :06:33.in Ballymena to be afforded the option of audio recording of the
:06:34. > :06:40.Antrim council so they can see and hear what is said or as my
:06:41. > :06:49.constituency in Ballymoney, are they to be denied the facility? I was
:06:50. > :06:55.asked if I would assist with the cost of these sound systems to local
:06:56. > :06:59.government. If they are only ?160 I might but however I would not be
:07:00. > :07:02.appropriate to fund this from a central government budget, the
:07:03. > :07:07.recording of proceedings would be for the benefit of the ratepayers of
:07:08. > :07:12.a council area therefore the cost should really be met through rates.
:07:13. > :07:16.The Environment Minister, Mark H Durkan. Sam McBride from the News
:07:17. > :07:21.Letter is with me. Why so much focus on audio recordings of proceedings
:07:22. > :07:26.in future, first of all? Well, it is about setting the rules
:07:27. > :07:35.for the new councils, they will have considerable new powers, planning,
:07:36. > :07:40.that has enormous significance in financial terms for developers,
:07:41. > :07:44.there were fears about the potential for corruption, in situations where
:07:45. > :07:49.political parties don't have to reveal funding. This was the
:07:50. > :07:54.Alliance party trying to play ground rules to be as open as possible
:07:55. > :08:01.about what takes place. Also, potentially a bit of a look at the
:08:02. > :08:04.future where newspapers and journalists and they are few on the
:08:05. > :08:07.ground so some meetings may not be covered by anyone so if there is no
:08:08. > :08:11.record of what is said, what the situation could be?
:08:12. > :08:20.This mammoth debate caught some Members by surprise. How
:08:21. > :08:24.so? Well, it seemed to come out quite quickly last week that this
:08:25. > :08:31.was to take place today and tomorrow. Tomorrow's sitting was not
:08:32. > :08:36.timetabled at the start. Tom Elliott mentioned they had a day and a half
:08:37. > :08:41.to get some amendments together, that fed into the fact many parties
:08:42. > :08:46.had no amendments. I was surprised big parties like Sinn Fein had no
:08:47. > :08:52.amendments whatsoever. The TUV to Jim McAllister are generally keen to
:08:53. > :08:56.tie things into legislation and they had no amendments. They may bring
:08:57. > :09:01.some late on. Even the Green party have raised issues about this bill,
:09:02. > :09:06.Basil McCrea, those people did not have anything to add. Many spoke but
:09:07. > :09:09.were not proposing anything. It's an important piece of
:09:10. > :09:12.legislation, clearly but the local elections are happening, whatever
:09:13. > :09:15.the outcome of the next two days on 22nd May. You could forgive people
:09:16. > :09:26.at home for being confused, couldn't you? Exactly. One irony is whether
:09:27. > :09:30.the bill goes through now or not, the elections will go ahead. That
:09:31. > :09:36.has been made clear. This process has been dogged by delays and
:09:37. > :09:40.changes and U-turns and different boundaries and members of councils
:09:41. > :09:45.so the public could be very confused, any journalist could and
:09:46. > :09:50.politicians as well! It is a clear that the election will go ahead. The
:09:51. > :09:55.councils will meet for if -- for a year.
:09:56. > :10:03.Quite dry so far today. Tomorrow is likely to be a lot more interesting,
:10:04. > :10:06.isn't it? Yes, the issue of flags and outside council headquarters and
:10:07. > :10:13.how many days, there may be some heat in a debate but it will not go
:10:14. > :10:17.far because SDLP and Sinn Fein concern has neutered that debate.
:10:18. > :10:18.While there will be debate in the chamber, it will not come to much.
:10:19. > :10:32.Sam, for now, thank-you. close Northern Ireland's Driver
:10:33. > :10:36.Vehicle Agency, with the loss of 300 jobs. Mark H Durkan was responding
:10:37. > :10:43.to an Urgent Oral Question tabled by Sinn Fein's Cathal O Hoisin. I am
:10:44. > :10:48.bitterly disappointed and angered by this decision which represents
:10:49. > :10:52.nothing more than a narrowly focused cost-cutting exercise made at the
:10:53. > :10:58.expense of high quality public services, jobs and to the detriment
:10:59. > :11:02.of the local economy. I am also extremely angry at the timing of the
:11:03. > :11:07.announcement, in spite of assurances from ministers that I would be
:11:08. > :11:09.informed in advance of any announcement and notwithstanding
:11:10. > :11:14.that I made myself available to discuss this critical issue with
:11:15. > :11:17.ministers at any time. It's disgraceful the announcement was
:11:18. > :11:22.made whilst I was out of the country. For any of the members of
:11:23. > :11:26.staff fortunate enough to be redeployed to other civil service
:11:27. > :11:33.posts, what is unacceptable travel for those felt appropriate in the
:11:34. > :11:41.civil service regime that they can travel? A lot of the workforce, the
:11:42. > :11:46.bulk of whom are located in Coleraine, many work in part time
:11:47. > :11:52.hours so therefore a reasonable travel distance will not be that
:11:53. > :11:59.great for quite a lot of these employees. I believe we have to be
:12:00. > :12:06.creative, myself and my executive colleagues in looking not at what
:12:07. > :12:15.staff can be deployed to but at the work which can be redeployed to
:12:16. > :12:30.staff. Can I ask what lessons can be learned? Well, I think it says a lot
:12:31. > :12:36.about what weight Westminster puts on what happens here in the North,
:12:37. > :12:37.about what weight they put on us as a devolved institution, when our
:12:38. > :12:44.about what weight they put on us as Minister. We were
:12:45. > :12:50.about what weight they put on us as decision would be taken at the
:12:51. > :12:53.highest political level. The Environment Minister making very
:12:54. > :13:00.clear his annoyance at last week's DVA job losses. The Regional
:13:01. > :13:03.Development Minister faced questions today, and proceedings were
:13:04. > :13:12.dominated by the A5?Londonderry to Aughnacloy. Sinn Fein's Declan
:13:13. > :13:18.McAleer asked the minister for an update. There are four reports in
:13:19. > :13:24.total dealing with nine different environmentally sensitive sites.
:13:25. > :13:28.These reports will be the subject of a consultation exercise, expected to
:13:29. > :13:31.be completed in 2014. A review of the matter is completed in the
:13:32. > :13:35.environmental statement is ongoing, and will lead to the publishing of
:13:36. > :13:43.an updated environmental statement which will also require a public
:13:44. > :13:46.consultation exercise. A direction order will also be reviewed and
:13:47. > :13:51.published at the same time, as part of this process. While I would
:13:52. > :13:55.emphasise that I cannot in anyway pre-empt the outcome of a public
:13:56. > :14:01.consultation exercise, an outline programme has been developed. Can he
:14:02. > :14:06.give any reassurance that the department is so committed that this
:14:07. > :14:09.project will not fall by default? I am grateful for his supplementary.
:14:10. > :14:16.The member will know that the executive remains omitted to this
:14:17. > :14:23.scheme, and indeed, the department continues to carry out all necessary
:14:24. > :14:28.work. I did indicate that I cannot in any way pre-empt the outcome of
:14:29. > :14:35.particularly the public consultation exercise. I have indicated the range
:14:36. > :14:43.of activities which will be necessary to keep the project
:14:44. > :14:49.moving. Financial considerations of course are a slightly different
:14:50. > :14:58.matter, perhaps more context, -- complex,
:14:59. > :15:01.matter, perhaps more context, -- determined. But as it stands, the
:15:02. > :15:13.department continues to work through this scheme. We continue to tackle
:15:14. > :15:18.the areas of concern which Mr Justice Stevens outlined. I
:15:19. > :15:26.appreciate that mistakes occurred with your predecessor, the Sinn Fein
:15:27. > :15:30.minister, but in terms of accountability, ultimately, who was
:15:31. > :15:34.responsible for the failure to deliver on the FSA project, and
:15:35. > :15:39.would your department be giving any further thought to keeping some of
:15:40. > :15:44.those environmental assessments in house, within the Executive? I am
:15:45. > :15:53.grateful for the simpler mantra question. I think there are issues
:15:54. > :15:57.-- supplementary question -- which members of this House and the
:15:58. > :16:14.general public deserve explanations for. We are not at the final stage
:16:15. > :16:20.of either report. Preliminary results, however, we have sought to
:16:21. > :16:24.implement, as we move forward not only in this scheme but on other
:16:25. > :16:29.road schemes. That was Danny Kennedy on the lessons learned so far on the
:16:30. > :16:33.A5?Londonderry to Aughnacloy Road scheme. Three times a year, the
:16:34. > :16:36.Assembly Commission gets the chance to answer questions on the floor of
:16:37. > :16:40.the chamber. It has the responsible at the of making sure the Assembly
:16:41. > :16:44.has the property, staff and services required to carry out its work. In
:16:45. > :16:48.terms of the oversight of expenditure, does the commission
:16:49. > :16:55.have any oversight of the shameless squander that we saw over the
:16:56. > :16:59.weekend, when the Committee On The took themselves, five members, to
:17:00. > :17:04.Washington as part of that particular jamboree, and spent a
:17:05. > :17:06.large amount of money, three of them from one party, one might add, to
:17:07. > :17:16.look at a document on ethics. from one party, one might add, to
:17:17. > :17:21.committee any oversight on squander by committees in this house? I am
:17:22. > :17:26.not sure whether I thank the member for that question or not. The simple
:17:27. > :17:33.answer is, no, the commission does not have that responsibility. The
:17:34. > :17:36.commission in May 2013 determined that questions would be answered in
:17:37. > :17:40.the language in which they were received. In effect, this means
:17:41. > :18:07.questions are responded to in English only. E speaks Irish. Would
:18:08. > :18:12.the member not agree with me that some members are excluded from using
:18:13. > :18:20.Irish here, as a result of the Assembly Commission's policy of not
:18:21. > :18:24.taking written or oral questions? With respect, there seems to be a
:18:25. > :18:27.degree of misunderstanding. The procedures are that if somebody is
:18:28. > :18:30.speaking a language other than English, they have to provide their
:18:31. > :18:35.own simultaneous translation. As regards to written answers, those
:18:36. > :18:38.are not actually determined in terms of the way they are received by the
:18:39. > :18:41.commission. If I picked up the member correctly, it was with
:18:42. > :18:45.reference to the member submitting what he was referring to. It is not
:18:46. > :18:48.the responsible at the of the commission to determine the
:18:49. > :18:51.procedures, in relation to the submission of questions to the
:18:52. > :18:57.Assembly. That is a matter determined by the business office,
:18:58. > :19:01.not a matter for the commission. That was Peter Weir, who sits on the
:19:02. > :19:06.Assembly Commission. Fuel poverty was on the in tray of the Social
:19:07. > :19:13.Development Minister, as was housing needs in West Belfast. As of
:19:14. > :19:16.December 2013, the number of applicants on the housing waiting
:19:17. > :19:20.list for greater West Belfast, covering West Belfast and other
:19:21. > :19:32.areas, stands allegations, which include the
:19:33. > :19:36.reallocation of existing housing stock and the development of new
:19:37. > :19:39.social housing. Projected social housing need requirement for greater
:19:40. > :19:46.West Belfast for the five year period up to 2018 has identified a
:19:47. > :19:57.requirement for 2524 new social homes. Can I ask the minister, given
:19:58. > :20:03.those figures, with something like 1000 families on the waiting list,
:20:04. > :20:10.people living in hostels, clearly those figures will not meet the
:20:11. > :20:13.need, in fact, will fall considerably short of that need,
:20:14. > :20:19.given the fact that there is available land on some of those what
:20:20. > :20:23.we call peace lines. Can he give any assurance other than what he has
:20:24. > :20:30.already given today to those people who are on the waiting list, many of
:20:31. > :20:45.them waiting in housing stress, to those individual families? The
:20:46. > :20:49.waiting time is actually not dissimilar to what it is in west
:20:50. > :20:53.Belfast. We must remember the whole issue, across the province. As
:20:54. > :20:56.regards West Belfast, I have identified the fact that there is an
:20:57. > :21:02.issue around the shortage of land. Certainly, that particular site is a
:21:03. > :21:07.very substantial site. It would accommodate quite a number of
:21:08. > :21:11.houses, several hundred houses. And therefore I think it is an important
:21:12. > :21:18.one. I would hope that people will support that. It would provide 196
:21:19. > :21:23.new social homes, together with giving 48 families the opportunity
:21:24. > :21:26.to own their own home. But it has run into community and political
:21:27. > :21:31.opposition. Does the minister believe that he and his department,
:21:32. > :21:32.as well as his predecessor, did all that they could to alleviate fuel
:21:33. > :21:46.poverty, the seemingly negligible impact that
:21:47. > :21:51.we have had? In terms of the warm homes scheme, the boiler replacement
:21:52. > :21:55.scheme, double glazing, energy efficiency, thermal in Cilic and of
:21:56. > :21:59.housing, all of these things contribute towards improving energy
:22:00. > :22:04.efficiency. -- thermal insulation. However we are very much depending
:22:05. > :22:09.in Northern Ireland on oil as our main source of fuel. We are very
:22:10. > :22:13.different from Great Britain, where there is a heavy reliance on gas,
:22:14. > :22:18.which is cheaper. This is not something just for one department.
:22:19. > :22:21.My colleague has been very proactive in terms of taking the gas network
:22:22. > :22:25.to the west of the province, because that is an area where there is a
:22:26. > :22:29.particular need, and access to gas will make a big difference. The
:22:30. > :22:35.future of the long-awaited police, fire and prison training college
:22:36. > :22:41.project at Desertcreat was the subject of an urgent oral question
:22:42. > :22:45.today. Sandra Overend asked for an update
:22:46. > :22:49.after it had been reported that a contractor had pulled out of the
:22:50. > :22:52.project. The board was made aware that a preferred bidder was
:22:53. > :22:56.experiencing pressures within the supply chain regarding the tender to
:22:57. > :22:59.build new college. There were a number of media reports on the
:23:00. > :23:04.issue, the position remains that the preferred bidder has not withdrawn
:23:05. > :23:07.its tender, and discussions between them and the programme team are
:23:08. > :23:13.ongoing. It would not be appropriate for me to comment any further, due
:23:14. > :23:16.to the commercial sensitivities. It seems that the options are either
:23:17. > :23:20.cutting back on the cost of the project, meaning it would no longer
:23:21. > :23:26.be state-of-the-art, or finding additional money. What is the
:23:27. > :23:29.minister's preference, and also, what is the likelihood of the
:23:30. > :23:37.project needing to be tendered again? Well, Mr Speaker, I said the
:23:38. > :23:41.current process is under way. The specific issue which she raises
:23:42. > :23:45.about functionality, a significant amount of cost has been taken out
:23:46. > :23:48.recently, something like ?20 million, but I have been assured by
:23:49. > :23:50.the programme board that this has not affected the functionality of
:23:51. > :24:02.the college, it has been simply not affected the functionality of
:24:03. > :24:07.value for money. The design team has cost in the region of ?8.5 million,
:24:08. > :24:11.of which ?6 million has been paid already. That company has admitted
:24:12. > :24:15.failure in underestimating the costs. What assurances has the
:24:16. > :24:21.minister received that this project can actually be delivered, given
:24:22. > :24:26.that it now stands at ?157 million, when it was originally ?140 million?
:24:27. > :24:30.Does he share the view of Judith Gillespie, in charge of this
:24:31. > :24:34.project, who told the committee in August that this was still a viable
:24:35. > :24:41.programme? I share the concerns raised about the issue of the
:24:42. > :24:44.inability of consultants to get their work right. I understand that
:24:45. > :24:49.the programme board is taking legal advice. That was the justice
:24:50. > :24:52.minister, David Ford. The Assembly page tribute earlier to the life and
:24:53. > :25:02.achievements of Lord Ballyedmond, who died in a helicopter crash in
:25:03. > :25:06.Norfolk last week. The SDLP's Sean Rogers brought a matter of the day
:25:07. > :25:13.to commemorate the leading businessman. Northern Ireland is
:25:14. > :25:20.poorer following the death of Lord Bali. Our thoughts and prayers are
:25:21. > :25:23.with the wider family at this time, -- Lord Ballyedmond. And also with
:25:24. > :25:27.the families of the other people in the helicopter who lost their lives.
:25:28. > :25:33.It is important that that goes on the record. The cars he was a true
:25:34. > :25:37.friend of this Assembly. Through his personal drive, his determination
:25:38. > :25:42.and single-mindedness, he made nor broke a world leader. The only
:25:43. > :25:47.home-grown veterinary, pharmaceutical company, based in
:25:48. > :25:54.Uri, exporting to over 120 countries. As a young boy who lost
:25:55. > :25:58.his father very young in life, his mother set aside what money they had
:25:59. > :26:02.to educate her children, and after he left school and went to America
:26:03. > :26:06.for a short number of years, he came back and started selling drugs
:26:07. > :26:06.basically out of the boot of a car. And from
:26:07. > :26:22.Ireland. I would like to join with other MLAs who have paid tribute to
:26:23. > :26:26.Lord Ballyedmond and Declan small, and the two pilots. This is a loss
:26:27. > :26:33.for their families and a loss for Southdown. He was what Northern
:26:34. > :26:35.Ireland needs more of. He was a business entrepreneur, someone who
:26:36. > :26:52.created wealth and provided jobs, most especially, jobs in my
:26:53. > :26:59.constituency, and in particular, jobs in Newry. Because of what he
:27:00. > :27:02.did in the area, other companies were attracted into the area, and
:27:03. > :27:08.the town is enjoying prosperity which we could not have invaded 40
:27:09. > :27:16.years ago. Tributes there to Lord Ballyedmond, who died last week. I
:27:17. > :27:22.have been rejoined by Sam McBride. Yes, he really tried to make the
:27:23. > :27:24.point that with Stormont annoying Westminster, over the issue of
:27:25. > :27:29.welfare reform, refusing to implement it, really they were not
:27:30. > :27:31.expecting any favours from Westminster when they needed
:27:32. > :27:37.something like the jobs saved in Coleraine. Whether that had any
:27:38. > :27:41.impact on the decision, who knows? But I think that there is a weaker
:27:42. > :27:46.hand, I suppose, for Stormont to play on issues like this, because
:27:47. > :27:50.they have been so incredibly sluggish to make any kind of
:27:51. > :27:54.decision on welfare. We discussed earlier that tomorrow is likely to
:27:55. > :27:59.be lively in the chamber, with the second day of debate on the Local
:28:00. > :28:04.Government Bill. Do you get the sense that members are moving into
:28:05. > :28:08.election mode? I think they are very quickly moving into election mode.
:28:09. > :28:12.One reason there might not have been so many amendments today was because
:28:13. > :28:15.some parties were still selecting candidates for going through
:28:16. > :28:17.election literature. I think the issue of flags tomorrow will be an
:28:18. > :28:26.issue for the public, and in issue of flags tomorrow will be an
:28:27. > :28:29.there is an amendment from the Ulster
:28:30. > :28:32.there is an amendment from the issue of rates, which will have a
:28:33. > :28:45.begin practising areas such as Castlereagh. It will have a real
:28:46. > :28:52.impact on people's pockets. We will leave it there. Thank you, as ever.
:28:53. > :28:55.Don't forget, the debate on the Local Government Bill continues
:28:56. > :28:59.tomorrow, so we will have a special edition of the programme tonight on
:29:00. > :29:02.BBC Two -- tomorrow night on BBC Two at 20 past 11.