:00:25. > :00:29.Hello and welcome to Stormont Today. Coming up in the programme: The
:00:30. > :00:33.findings of the Smithwick Tribunal are debated, but nationalists want a
:00:34. > :00:42.similar inquiry to take place north of the border.
:00:43. > :00:46.There is one inquiry which has not been undertaken and remains to be
:00:47. > :00:54.undertaken, and is part of a commitment by the British
:00:55. > :00:57.Government. That is in relation to this man's murder.
:00:58. > :01:06.Remarks made by Martin McGuinness lead to some tough questions in the
:01:07. > :01:10.chamber. Can we expect... And I'm joined by our political
:01:11. > :01:11.reporter Stephen Walker to look at the ramifications of that explosive
:01:12. > :01:19.Ian Paisley interview. In December the Smithwick Tribunal
:01:20. > :01:23.concluded there had been coalition between the Gardai and the IRA in
:01:24. > :01:27.the murder of two of the highest ranking RUC officers killed in the
:01:28. > :01:40.Troubles. Today the Assembly got its chance to
:01:41. > :01:47.Troubles. Today the Assembly got its station. The DUP brought the motion.
:01:48. > :01:52.The Smithwick Tribunal took eight years to complete its work,
:01:53. > :01:56.gathering extensive information and setting for 132 days of public
:01:57. > :02:02.hearings and it took evidence from 198 witnesses, 22 of which appeared
:02:03. > :02:07.more than on one occasion. In his report he says, the fact that the
:02:08. > :02:11.preparations commenced so late in the morning tens to make it more
:02:12. > :02:20.likely that information came from Dundalk Garda -- Gardai station. It
:02:21. > :02:25.is indicated that there was coalition. I am satisfied that they
:02:26. > :02:31.are required positive identification that Harry Breen in particular had
:02:32. > :02:35.arrived at and Gardai station. I am satisfied that the evidence points
:02:36. > :02:41.to the fact that there was someone within the Gardai station assisting
:02:42. > :02:51.the IRA. This inquiry arose out of the Weston Park agreement. Which was
:02:52. > :02:55.in 2001. And at that conference, it was agreed between the British and
:02:56. > :02:59.Irish governments and among the parties that there should be a
:03:00. > :03:04.number of enquiries into events of a contentious and controversial nature
:03:05. > :03:08.involving coalition on the part of the security forces and
:03:09. > :03:15.paramilitaries including the provisional IRA. But there is one
:03:16. > :03:18.inquiry which has not been undertaken, and remains to be
:03:19. > :03:22.undertaken, and is part of our commitment by the British
:03:23. > :03:28.Government. That is in relation to the murder of Pat Finucane. The
:03:29. > :03:37.thing that -- the Smithwick Tribunal does -- is not on the same scale or
:03:38. > :03:43.form of the coalition that happened within the British state forces.
:03:44. > :03:55.Against the Catholic nationalist community. In the main in
:03:56. > :03:59.institutionalised, and it was coordinated coalition. It led to the
:04:00. > :04:08.deaths of hundreds of citizens. Including the Dublin Monaghan
:04:09. > :04:19.bombings and the notorious gang who were involved over -- in over 100
:04:20. > :04:24.killings. He referred to Smethwick is open and honest, trans. He
:04:25. > :04:29.continued, out of respect for the families we should risk -- recall
:04:30. > :04:33.the human aspect of this atrocity. We should always remember the last
:04:34. > :04:41.these families endured. There were over 3,500 souls lost during the
:04:42. > :04:48.Troubles. Where allegations of coalition are concerned, we have
:04:49. > :04:55.always thought that the state there is a responsibility. We have to ask
:04:56. > :04:59.questions of ourselves. I would ask some of the members opposite to
:05:00. > :05:02.think long and hard over past and any role they played in the murder
:05:03. > :05:09.or injury of any of the citizens of this province. The judge's report
:05:10. > :05:16.highlighted coalition between as yet unidentified members of the Gardai
:05:17. > :05:23.and members of the provisional IRA. Contrary to the outrageous views of
:05:24. > :05:27.the few, the vast majority of us are horrified by the report was my
:05:28. > :05:31.conclusions. The Alliance party welcomes the speedy response of the
:05:32. > :05:38.Irish Government in offering an absolute and unqualified apology. My
:05:39. > :05:42.duty as Minister of judgement in 2014 is to insure that we learn the
:05:43. > :05:48.lessons of the past, and put into place the necessary structures at
:05:49. > :05:53.this stage. -- Minister of justice. That is why since the publication of
:05:54. > :05:56.the report, I have had face-to-face discussions with the Minister for
:05:57. > :05:58.Justice and equality in addition to a number of telephone calls.
:05:59. > :06:01.The Justice Minister David Ford. Joining me now is our political
:06:02. > :06:08.reporter Stephen Walker. What's your assessment of
:06:09. > :06:11.reporter Stephen Walker. Tribunal were debated in
:06:12. > :06:13.reporter Stephen Walker. many ways this began as a narrow
:06:14. > :06:21.debate, then it widened out into a whole series of issues. These are
:06:22. > :06:29.issues that were very -- we are very familiar with. The main motion
:06:30. > :06:33.obviously centred on the Smithwick Tribunal, looking at the two murders
:06:34. > :06:39.of Harry Breen and Bob Buchanan. What we heard today was very
:06:40. > :06:41.familiar, the DUP accused the Gardai commissioner of being in denial and
:06:42. > :06:46.suggested Sinn Fein had tried to sabotage the efforts of the
:06:47. > :06:49.tribunal. Gregory Campbell raised the issue of the several inquiry
:06:50. > :06:58.which looked into the events of Bloody Sunday. Then this debate went
:06:59. > :07:04.into other areas, Sinn Fein raised the issue of Pat Finucane. By and
:07:05. > :07:08.large it was conducted in pretty good heart, but as I say we have
:07:09. > :07:11.heard the arguments about the past many times, often you felt slightly
:07:12. > :07:15.watching this debate that people were kind of on autopilot on some
:07:16. > :07:22.occasions. But it was done with good grace. What happened to the main
:07:23. > :07:25.motion? The main motion was a DUP motion which called for those
:07:26. > :07:30.responsible for the deaths of Harry Breen and Bob Buchanan to be brought
:07:31. > :07:34.to justice, and they called for just -- discussions between Irish police
:07:35. > :07:37.north and south on the Minister of Justice. There was an SDLP amendment
:07:38. > :07:41.but that failed. He was supposed to be answering
:07:42. > :07:43.questions on the latest North South Ministerial Council meeting, but
:07:44. > :07:48.instead Martin McGuinness came under fire from unionists in the chamber.
:07:49. > :07:50.The Deputy First Minister was asked about the St Andrews Agreement
:07:51. > :08:00.review and his recent comments about the Orange Order. Seven years on,
:08:01. > :08:05.what is the product of this -- of the St Andrews agreement review, and
:08:06. > :08:11.what is the level of agreement concerning it? And is the Deputy
:08:12. > :08:14.first Minister fed up with that as well? And if so, can we expect the
:08:15. > :08:28.mask slip, as it did last well? And if so, can we expect the
:08:29. > :08:32.that question I should answer, but certainly in terms of the St Andrews
:08:33. > :08:37.agreement review we did have a useful discussion at the meeting,
:08:38. > :08:43.and we are pleased to note that work is under way to implement the
:08:44. > :08:45.discussion taken at the meeting which we attended in November, for
:08:46. > :08:50.Ministers to consider the priorities, in their respective
:08:51. > :08:54.areas and for a report on that consideration to be considered at
:08:55. > :08:58.the next institutional, so without pre-empting these discussions there
:08:59. > :09:03.are areas which we could explore which would deliver mutual benefits
:09:04. > :09:07.to both jurisdictions. So I look forward to consider a report and
:09:08. > :09:11.what Ministers see as their priorities once they have had these
:09:12. > :09:19.discussions. In regard to the second aspect of the question, that does
:09:20. > :09:24.not relate to the institution... Just on the St Andrew 's review, the
:09:25. > :09:30.-- discussions, does he accept that there will be a need to build on the
:09:31. > :09:34.changes that were agreed at St Andrews, in order that if Ministers
:09:35. > :09:40.go off like the Agriculture Minister did before Christmas, and take a
:09:41. > :09:49.decision, that that decision has to be overturned whether at the
:09:50. > :09:54.executive or at the courts of law? The member is as clear about the
:09:55. > :09:57.outcome of the St Andrew 's negotiations and the legislation
:09:58. > :10:02.that flowed from that, obviously in relation to the issue that he has
:10:03. > :10:09.raised, it did not actually come up at the institutional meeting of the
:10:10. > :10:11.North-South ministerial -- North South Ministerial Council that the
:10:12. > :10:17.first Minister and I attended. It is a subject of controversy. The
:10:18. > :10:22.Minister for agricultural spoke about this last week, and I will
:10:23. > :10:25.leave the last word on that with her department and with herself.
:10:26. > :10:27.The Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness.
:10:28. > :10:30.The Enterprise, Trade and Investment Minister Arlene Foster also faced
:10:31. > :10:33.questions in the House. She pledged to support the construction company
:10:34. > :10:44.Mivan, which recently announced the loss of almost 100 jobs - but first
:10:45. > :10:48.Mivan, which recently announced the the Rugby World Cup. This coming
:10:49. > :10:51.together between ourselves and the relevant Ministers in the Republic
:10:52. > :10:56.of island is a realisation that neither of us would be able to host
:10:57. > :11:01.the World Cup on our own. And I think in that instance we should
:11:02. > :11:04.work together for mutual benefit in Northern Ireland, the Republic of
:11:05. > :11:08.Ireland, I think this is a good working relationship. We will have a
:11:09. > :11:16.further meeting on Wednesday of this week, to develop the plans further,
:11:17. > :11:20.and I think the call will be launched, not imminently but in May
:11:21. > :11:24.of 2016, but we want to be ready and make sure that we have all of the
:11:25. > :11:31.work in place, because we really do believe that given our shared
:11:32. > :11:37.history and heritage in relation to rugby foot tall, but we can really
:11:38. > :11:41.put on an excellent event. -- football. Right across Northern
:11:42. > :11:46.Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, for everyone here, but also to bring
:11:47. > :11:56.in numerous amounts of tourists into Northern Ireland, so for us I think
:11:57. > :12:01.I see great benefit. I thank the Minister for her answers. Maybe the
:12:02. > :12:06.Minister wants to send a delegation of malaise to the next Rugby World
:12:07. > :12:13.Cup. I am sure some of us would be willing to go. -- MLAs. She made
:12:14. > :12:17.some positive comments of the G8's role in securing this bid, but come
:12:18. > :12:23.as the Minister whether her department or the Department of
:12:24. > :12:34.sport in the South has considered any kind of personal support to the
:12:35. > :12:46.IRA for help in securing this bid? We are working very closely with
:12:47. > :12:50.both branches. But, yes, part of the meeting on Wednesday is to look at
:12:51. > :12:52.what practical measures we have to take to make sure we are ready. I
:12:53. > :13:04.will take comments on take to make sure we are ready. I
:13:05. > :13:10.are well set to welcome this tournament to the island in 2023 and
:13:11. > :13:22.we will give them all the support they ask for. Obviously, within
:13:23. > :13:34.budget. The Minister will be aware of job losses in recent days. What
:13:35. > :13:37.plans does the Department have? It was disappointing news on Friday. I
:13:38. > :13:43.understand most of the job losses announced on Friday were in relation
:13:44. > :13:47.to work outside of Northern Ireland, contracts being delivered outside
:13:48. > :13:52.Northern Ireland. I have spoken to the admin and financial director of
:13:53. > :13:58.the company. They are working hard to find a solution. We will support
:13:59. > :14:02.them in any way we can. I have made that very clear.
:14:03. > :14:06.Arlene Foster pledging support for Mivan. The Employment and Learning
:14:07. > :14:09.Minister was also on his feet today. The expansion of the Magee campus,
:14:10. > :14:12.youth unemployment and the future of the Senior Common Room at the
:14:13. > :14:20.University of Ulster's Coleraine campus were all up for discussion.
:14:21. > :14:32.The University of Ulster is currently undertaking a 1.5 million
:14:33. > :14:35.review of its estate. Demolition of the South buildings and construction
:14:36. > :14:38.of a new state-of-the-art teaching and learning block to replace the
:14:39. > :14:44.academic provision previously housed in the South buildings. The
:14:45. > :14:51.University will continue to provide common room facilities. . Can the
:14:52. > :14:58.Minister inform us what direction the department has had with the
:14:59. > :15:06.University or protesters during this parade? It was a matter for the
:15:07. > :15:18.University to address and resolve. Universities are at an 's body is.
:15:19. > :15:23.University to address and resolve. government, that support runs in the
:15:24. > :15:28.policy direction. It is not the job of government to micromanage how
:15:29. > :15:36.universities conduct their affairs. A number of us got behind the
:15:37. > :15:39.employment scheme. Can he report on how successful it has been not just
:15:40. > :15:47.in numbers of people coming through but in getting to the heart of
:15:48. > :15:52.working-class estate? I thank the member for his question. The youth
:15:53. > :15:58.employment scheme has been successful in its own right. If we
:15:59. > :16:02.also make comparisons with our performance in Northern Ireland
:16:03. > :16:06.relative to similar schemes in Great Britain, across a number of
:16:07. > :16:10.different indicators, we are performing better. This is a
:16:11. > :16:15.reflection of the advantages of devolution. We have not copied
:16:16. > :16:20.something that is delivered in Great Britain and rolled it out. We have
:16:21. > :16:24.listened to the voices of young people and the business community
:16:25. > :16:30.and found our own particular solution. We have achieved better
:16:31. > :16:38.outcomes. The members -- the member is also right to talk about
:16:39. > :16:48.outreach. Our advisers will stir those who are not employed to the
:16:49. > :16:51.youth employment scheme. There are other schemes out there so to work
:16:52. > :17:03.with those who are more disengaged or are facing barriers. The strategy
:17:04. > :17:07.for those is so important. We will look at the youth programme over the
:17:08. > :17:12.coming months to refresh the strategy and to make sure we are on
:17:13. > :17:19.the right level in engaging people. Does the Minister agree with me that
:17:20. > :17:24.an expanded college is essential to developing the economy? If we are to
:17:25. > :17:35.make developing the economy? If we are to
:17:36. > :17:40.at the same time as we have to make further reductions in terms of
:17:41. > :17:43.allocations to the sector. As a adequate, we follow as the quality
:17:44. > :17:45.of education. The Employment and Learning
:17:46. > :17:48.Minister, Stephen Farry. An Ulster Unionist motion expressing concern
:17:49. > :17:51.that a disagreement between two Executive Ministers was brought
:17:52. > :17:54.before the High Court has failed to win support. At the end of last year
:17:55. > :17:57.the Finance Minister took legal action over how the Agriculture
:17:58. > :18:00.Minister planned to distribute European funding. Robin Swann
:18:01. > :18:05.brought the motion to the floor and he's with me now.
:18:06. > :18:08.Your party colleague Jo-Anne Dobson in proposing the motion said the
:18:09. > :18:13.court case was an embarrassment. Is that why you brought it? To attempt
:18:14. > :18:21.to further embarrass the DUP and Sinn Fein? Not in the slightest. You
:18:22. > :18:27.correctly explained that the agriculture Minster made a
:18:28. > :18:37.statement. That decision was taken by the Minister without consultation
:18:38. > :18:43.to the agriculture committee. The DUP took the steps to the High Court
:18:44. > :18:50.to have that addressed. We think it is the first place -- first time it
:18:51. > :18:54.has been taken to public domain. This response ability of the
:18:55. > :18:56.Minister to consult with the Assembly and with the agriculture
:18:57. > :19:10.committee before making these decisions. Do you agree with what
:19:11. > :19:16.the party that by having to take it to court? We believe they have two
:19:17. > :19:23.sort this out around the executive table. Both ministers had come down
:19:24. > :19:29.to the stage with the Agriculture Minister said she had sent the big
:19:30. > :19:36.ears. By the Finance Minister was said to have not received the
:19:37. > :19:39.papers. The members of this House and the general public can make out
:19:40. > :19:51.their minds as to who was right. and the general public can make out
:19:52. > :19:53.resolve the issue with Michelle O'Neill. He dissolved to court
:19:54. > :20:01.action and court action backed him at. The agriculture NASA said she
:20:02. > :20:06.tried to convert with the Finance Minister but he did not respond. We
:20:07. > :20:10.have to sort this out. It cannot be up to the courts and the judiciary
:20:11. > :20:16.to make decisions as to how much we are transferring. It is up to
:20:17. > :20:19.members of the committees and the executive. The motion fell pretty
:20:20. > :20:30.emphatically, you must be disappointed? We brought a motion
:20:31. > :20:43.that was critical of the Finance Minister and the Agriculture
:20:44. > :20:47.Minister. Many others supported what we were trying to do but when it
:20:48. > :20:54.came down to the motion, they failed to support the motion. Sinn Fein is
:20:55. > :21:00.able to support the Alliance Party amendment. But they failed to
:21:01. > :21:06.support the amended motion because it was critical of their minister.
:21:07. > :21:10.It is a marker for your party to lay down. You are saying your party
:21:11. > :21:19.would not take legal action if it could not agree around the table?
:21:20. > :21:23.These things have to be sorted out at the executive table. We cannot
:21:24. > :21:32.have parties making the transfer like a political foot. We have seen
:21:33. > :21:37.this too many times. Our ministers have two act responsibly. --
:21:38. > :22:01.responsibly. The have two act responsibly. --
:22:02. > :22:08.Northern Ireland Human have two act responsibly. --
:22:09. > :22:11.guidelines on abortion would fail to comply with the European Convention
:22:12. > :22:14.on Human Rights. John Corey was giving evidence to the OFMDFM
:22:15. > :22:21.committee last week. Mr Corey also briefed MLAs on the Commission's
:22:22. > :22:25.submission to Richard Haass. As recorded in the statement last
:22:26. > :22:34.summer, this commission characterised completion of a number
:22:35. > :22:39.of substantive papers and the parade and protest and symbols, dealing
:22:40. > :22:46.with the past of Northern Ireland and a separate paper on the human
:22:47. > :22:51.rights culture in post-conflict societies. The eternity of human
:22:52. > :22:56.rights was at the heart of these submissions. The commission
:22:57. > :22:59.submitted this at the start of the consultation process and we shared
:23:00. > :23:05.with all the political parties as well. It would be remiss of me not
:23:06. > :23:10.to add here that the commission also advised the doctor that it will
:23:11. > :23:14.write for Northern Ireland is justifiable and would have benefit
:23:15. > :23:21.for the issues that he was addressing. I would reiterate here
:23:22. > :23:26.because for all parties to give priority to progressing the process
:23:27. > :23:29.that would result in a Bill of Rights for Northern Ireland.
:23:30. > :23:38.Unfortunately, on a less positive aspect, the commission is reporting
:23:39. > :23:42.on a number of areas where outstanding matters remain to be
:23:43. > :23:51.addressed despite his having been raised in the commission statement.
:23:52. > :23:58.That is no single legislative instrument to consolidate and
:23:59. > :24:03.clarified existing protections in Northern Ireland. This means this
:24:04. > :24:10.jurisdiction lags behind other parts of the UK in terms of equality in
:24:11. > :24:12.law. If I can move on to another difficult issue we recognise and
:24:13. > :24:24.that is an termination of pregnancy. difficult issue we recognise and
:24:25. > :24:28.consulted on draft guidelines on this matter and the commission
:24:29. > :24:34.advised that the draft if implemented would fail to comply
:24:35. > :24:39.with the European commission on human rights. The Commissioner has
:24:40. > :24:47.advised that an with human rights laws and standards requires
:24:48. > :24:52.termination should be made available in Northern Ireland in cases of
:24:53. > :25:02.rape, incest and serious formation -- Mal formation of the foetus. It
:25:03. > :25:05.remains a concern. It is an fortunate that during 2015 this
:25:06. > :25:17.commission had to engage its legal powers to ensure the law governing
:25:18. > :25:26.the rights of the adoptive parent was compliant with human rights. The
:25:27. > :25:29.judicial review was necessary with regards to the eligibility of blood
:25:30. > :25:32.donations. It was further noted that the exclusion of Northern Ireland
:25:33. > :25:38.from the provisions of same-sex marriage Bill for all aspects we
:25:39. > :25:41.consider and not in keeping with human rights requirements.
:25:42. > :25:43.John Corey from the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission appearing
:25:44. > :25:47.before the OFMDFM Committee. Now, before we go we turn to tonight's
:25:48. > :25:50.documentary on Ian Paisley which has just been broadcast on BBC One. Our
:25:51. > :25:55.Political Reporter, Stephen Walker, is back with me. Your overall
:25:56. > :26:04.thoughts on what was broadcast tonight? I think this was political
:26:05. > :26:09.dynamite, the kind of soul baring we hardly get on television. We are
:26:10. > :26:16.used to politicians attacking politicians in other cities --
:26:17. > :26:22.parties but not a former party leader making direct criticisms of
:26:23. > :26:28.former colleagues. Strong words directed towards Peter Robinson?
:26:29. > :26:30.That is a whole catalogue of things that Lord Bannside said. You
:26:31. > :26:44.referred to him as that Lord Bannside said. You
:26:45. > :26:47.Paisley also accused the DUP are politically as fascinating her
:26:48. > :26:56.husband. She had strong words for a survey which was convicted about him
:26:57. > :27:06.during his last days as First Minister. She said she wanted to ram
:27:07. > :27:16.it down the throat of his adviser. It was also said that someone had
:27:17. > :27:20.said they wanted him gone. Fairly direct words in the documentary. The
:27:21. > :27:27.DUP has rejected this version of events? They have. There was a very
:27:28. > :27:31.strong test release that was issued last night via e-mail was they have
:27:32. > :27:38.questioned his recollection of and say his comments are to be
:27:39. > :27:42.regretted. Peter Robinson said he faithfully served Doctor Paisley
:27:43. > :27:50.over many decades and rather than written inside for insult, he said
:27:51. > :27:58.let me bless him with the blessing of my silence. How does this affect
:27:59. > :28:02.Lord Bannside's legacy? Ian Paisley was known as the man who said
:28:03. > :28:07.everything there was a political initiative, he would say no. Then he
:28:08. > :28:11.finally said yes and he went into the power-sharing executive with
:28:12. > :28:17.Sinn Fein. This documentary tells us, it gives us a glimpse of the
:28:18. > :28:28.first days. Will this damage the DUP? They have been through tough
:28:29. > :28:29.times before. The party will say and Peter Robinson they have had good
:28:30. > :28:33.election results. Stephen, thank you. That's it for
:28:34. > :28:35.tonight. We're back at the same time tomorrow night. 11.20pm on BBC Two.
:28:36. > :28:37.For now, though, goodbye.