:00:29. > :00:32.Welcome to Stormont Today. The Justice Minister makes clear his
:00:32. > :00:36.stance on the age of criminal responsibility.
:00:37. > :00:43.I agree with the majority of those who responded to the public
:00:44. > :00:47.consultation that ten is too young to be dealt with the weight of a
:00:47. > :00:52.Criminal Justice System. Talking tough, the Finance Minister
:00:52. > :00:57.warns he is no push over when it comes to the press. I expect that
:00:58. > :01:07.people will not treat you with kid gloves, but I do not expect and
:01:07. > :01:11.will not allow people to wilfully walk over the top of me.
:01:11. > :01:14.The Justice Minister, David Ford told MLAs that he is committed to
:01:14. > :01:19.pressing the case for a rise in the age of criminal responsibility.
:01:19. > :01:23.While briefing members on the implementation of a review of youth
:01:23. > :01:28.justice, Mr Ford says he recognises the majority of the House is
:01:28. > :01:34.against a rise, but stressed that the evidence does support a change.
:01:34. > :01:37.The report provides a blueprint for the transformation of our youth
:01:37. > :01:41.justice system. It is the view of those who responded to the public
:01:41. > :01:45.consultation. It is my intention to see it implemented over the next 18
:01:45. > :01:49.months in line with the commitment I have made in the programme for
:01:49. > :01:54.Government. I am today publishing an implementation plan to give
:01:54. > :01:58.effect to that commitment and to demonstrate publicly that I intend
:01:58. > :02:04.to see this agenda through. My department is pressing ahead with
:02:04. > :02:10.matters that lie within my ambit. I have announce that had the
:02:10. > :02:20.Woodlands Centre will be the sole detention for juf juveniles. I am
:02:20. > :02:21.
:02:21. > :02:28.pleased to report today there are no juveniles head at Hyde bank
:02:28. > :02:32.Young Offenders Centre. No statement on the review of youth
:02:32. > :02:34.justice will be complete without making mention of the one
:02:34. > :02:39.contentious recommendation, raising the minimum age of criminal
:02:39. > :02:42.responsibility to 12. Personally, I agree with the majority of those
:02:42. > :02:47.who responded to the public consultation that ten is just too
:02:47. > :02:50.young to be dealt with by the weight of a Criminal Justice System.
:02:50. > :02:56.Medical research on brain development, and social policy
:02:56. > :03:01.research on the negative impact of criminalising young children, tells
:03:01. > :03:05.us we should seek non-criminal injunctions for the small number of
:03:05. > :03:11.children in this age group who offend. A mining ort in this House
:03:11. > :03:16.is not -- a minority in this House is not persuaded. I am committed to
:03:16. > :03:20.pressing the case for an increase. Perhaps with safeguards to allow
:03:20. > :03:24.for the rare case of a very serious offence, by a child under the age
:03:24. > :03:27.of 12 to be addressed. This arrangement has been operating
:03:27. > :03:33.without difficulty in the Republic of Ireland for the past six years.
:03:33. > :03:37.I welcome the fact that he recognises his efforts to increase
:03:37. > :03:42.the minimum age isn't going to happen in terms of it moving from
:03:42. > :03:46.ten to 12 and that will allow us to focus on what are important issues.
:03:46. > :03:49.It will be for the judiciary to decide whether someone has
:03:49. > :03:53.committed an offence within that age bracket and we shouldn't
:03:53. > :03:57.frustrate them in their efforts to protect society. I am not sure that
:03:57. > :04:05.the statement recognised there wasn't going to be a raise in the
:04:05. > :04:08.minimum age of criminal responsibility. Including
:04:08. > :04:14.highlighting the issue where the most serious offences are exempt
:04:14. > :04:17.from the change in the Republic of Ireland a lesson was in line with
:04:17. > :04:21.what was suggested by by some Unionist members.
:04:21. > :04:26.In relation to the criminal age of responsibility, how the criminal
:04:26. > :04:29.age of responsibility in Northern Ireland currently compares with
:04:29. > :04:35.that in other European countries and what further work he thinks is
:04:35. > :04:39.needed in that issue? The issue of minimum age of criminal
:04:39. > :04:44.responsibility within Europe is wider than the brief I have with me,
:04:44. > :04:47.but I can say that at ten the minimum age of criminal criminal
:04:47. > :04:52.responsible in Northern Ireland is very much at the lower end by
:04:52. > :04:56.European standards. I believe in Scotland it is 12, with
:04:56. > :04:59.consideration being given to increase. It is ten in England and
:04:59. > :05:03.Wales and it has been increased six years except for the most serious
:05:03. > :05:06.offences in the Republic. The most important thing is we get a minimum
:05:06. > :05:10.age of responsibility which is consistent with what we understand
:05:10. > :05:14.about the developments of young children in a way which is
:05:14. > :05:20.meaningful. The minister is a great advocate of
:05:20. > :05:27.the processes and the architecture of this House. Being such, why
:05:27. > :05:32.therefore, is he so intent on trying to sub vrt the reality --
:05:32. > :05:37.subvert that there is not the support for his foolish notion of
:05:37. > :05:46.increasing the minimum age for criminal responsibility? Why waste
:05:46. > :05:49.time and effort on a proposal which is stillborn.
:05:49. > :05:54.I am not sure whether it is in order to accuse a minister of
:05:54. > :05:57.seeking to subvert the processes of the House. I think the evidence
:05:57. > :06:02.which shows my engagement in this House and the committee is anything,
:06:02. > :06:05.but. I am joined by the Chief Executive
:06:05. > :06:09.of Opportunity Youth which supports a rise in the age of criminal
:06:09. > :06:13.responsibility. Why do you think it is important that the age goes up
:06:13. > :06:19.from ten in Northern Ireland? we are not in line with Europe.
:06:19. > :06:23.Where the age would be around 14, 15. The Republic of Ireland and
:06:23. > :06:32.Scotland have already raised the age to 12 and England and Wales are
:06:32. > :06:36.soon to look at it. Children are ten, is a child, you know, they are
:06:36. > :06:41.young children. It is very, very rare in Northern Ireland for a
:06:42. > :06:48.child of that age to perpetrate a serious crime. So why not raise it?
:06:48. > :06:53.There is no negative evidence to show that raising the age of
:06:53. > :07:01.responsibility will cause any issues. The evidence is there. As
:07:01. > :07:04.David Ford put forward today very well and as an organisation we are
:07:04. > :07:08.disappointed they did not get the support.
:07:08. > :07:12.The fear in some quarters if you move the age up from ten to twelve
:07:12. > :07:16.or fourteen, what you are doing is giving carte blanche to children
:07:16. > :07:21.younger than the age that is decided upon to be criminally
:07:21. > :07:29.irresponsible? That's the danger, isn't it? We have to look at the
:07:29. > :07:33.evidence that we have. There is, in Northern Ireland, very, very few
:07:33. > :07:38.children commit serious criminal offences. We have to remember these
:07:38. > :07:41.are children. I mean, I am sure your ten-year-old and many out
:07:41. > :07:45.there ten-year-olds are tucked up in their bed looking forward to
:07:45. > :07:49.Christmas. We have to look at these children and we need to be
:07:49. > :07:53.protecting them. If you could pick a figure, what
:07:53. > :07:57.would that figure be? The minister talked about 12. Would you agree
:07:57. > :08:01.with him or not? We would be satisfied with 12. It would be
:08:01. > :08:06.progress, but we would like to see that the age responsibility was in
:08:06. > :08:13.line with the rest of Europe. Some of the most safest places in Europe,
:08:13. > :08:20.the limit is 15. And I mean, we are actually criminalising our children.
:08:20. > :08:24.We need to be looking in Northern Ireland why we are insisting that
:08:24. > :08:27.the age of criminal responsibility is is ten? Why young people of this
:08:27. > :08:30.age, children and young people of this age would be perpetrating
:08:30. > :08:35.serious crimes. What's the answer to that question?
:08:35. > :08:39.The answer to that question is quite broad. I mean there are
:08:39. > :08:43.poverty issues. There are dysfunctional issues within our
:08:43. > :08:48.society. That is not supporting children and young people. We need
:08:48. > :08:51.to look at those issues broadly and it is not just an issue for the
:08:51. > :08:54.Department of Justice, it is across Government.
:08:54. > :09:02.Are you also saying though this evening that while you would like
:09:02. > :09:06.to see the figure going up to 12, or 14 or 15, you accept in certain
:09:06. > :09:09.circumstances a judge would have the discretion to hold a child
:09:09. > :09:15.under that age still criminally responsible? For example in a
:09:15. > :09:21.murder or rape case? It would have to be the case. In cases of serious
:09:21. > :09:26.crime, murder, rape, serious assault, absolutely. It is not
:09:26. > :09:31.carte blanche. That's not what we put forward in terms of the
:09:31. > :09:35.consultation paper to the review, but we are clear about not
:09:35. > :09:39.criminalising ten-year-olds. If it is the case that you you
:09:39. > :09:43.would be prepared to see a child held criminally responsible for a
:09:43. > :09:49.serious crime, why would that child not be held criminally responsible
:09:49. > :09:53.for a less serious crime? We are more interested in why a child of
:09:53. > :09:57.that age would be perpetrating a crime of that seriousness and it is
:09:57. > :10:00.very rare. We have to get across to the public that it would be very,
:10:00. > :10:03.very rare for that to happen. Quickly, the minister said today
:10:03. > :10:10.that he knows he won't have the support support within the assembly
:10:10. > :10:15.to raise the age from ten to 12. will continue to lobby the minister
:10:15. > :10:17.and continue to lobby the other political parties. This is an issue
:10:17. > :10:22.and a debate we would like to see continuing.
:10:22. > :10:26.We will see if that does happen. Thank you very much indeed for
:10:26. > :10:31.coming in. The viral minister has told MLAs he
:10:31. > :10:37.will consult on reducing fees for renewing planning applications. The
:10:37. > :10:41.minister said he wants to ensure that that planning opportunities
:10:41. > :10:46.are not lost to the recession for bankruptcy. The minister made clear
:10:46. > :10:51.his opposition to new European regulation on vehicle licensing.
:10:51. > :10:58.You are a big supporter of the European Union. And why wouldn't I
:10:58. > :11:04.be given their contribution to this part of the world and to peace in
:11:04. > :11:08.Europe and notably a Nobel Peace Prize and therefore, I would like
:11:08. > :11:13.to see us build and deepen a relationship with Europe, but these
:11:13. > :11:19.particular proposals in my view cross a line that the EU when it
:11:19. > :11:22.comes to our own jurisdiction and to our own road worthiness is lying
:11:22. > :11:27.best not crossed. Would the minister agree this
:11:27. > :11:30.matter is typical of the EU, attempting to enforce a nonsense
:11:30. > :11:36.nonsense policy on its member States and would the minister agree
:11:36. > :11:43.that decision of this matter should be with our own Government?
:11:43. > :11:48.Well, I don't agree with the member. This is typical of decisions of the
:11:48. > :11:54.European Union. We are within days and hopefully within touching
:11:54. > :12:01.distance of the European Union through the SEUPB releasing 22
:12:01. > :12:09.million euros, �17 million, why? To build infrastructure on this island.
:12:09. > :12:13.Could I bring the subject back to this hair-brained proposal from
:12:13. > :12:17.Brussels. Brussels will never win the common sense prize for regular
:12:17. > :12:24.regulations such as this which would seek to introduce... Can we
:12:24. > :12:27.have a question, please. The burden of MOTting farm
:12:27. > :12:31.machinery. Does the minister have any idea what the cost would be to
:12:31. > :12:38.the farming community and to the department in admin straighting
:12:38. > :12:44.such nonsense? As I indicated, the cost of this never mind the policy
:12:44. > :12:49.implications of this in my view are disproportionate and extravagant to
:12:49. > :12:55.the proposal of any proposing coming forward. It will mean that
:12:55. > :13:00.more money invested in resources and technical machinery in order to
:13:00. > :13:07.conduct the assessments. It could mean in respect of some vehicles
:13:07. > :13:15.that they have to have the parts at the time of manufacture. The cost
:13:15. > :13:19.in my view for the owner and for the State is extravagant and
:13:19. > :13:24.excessive. Has the minister considered
:13:24. > :13:27.dezoning development land in areas where there are high numbers of
:13:27. > :13:34.unfinished housing developments? Well, I am pleased to hear that
:13:34. > :13:38.suggestion because it has not come on my radar before and I will take
:13:38. > :13:43.that into krltion because -- consideration because we are
:13:43. > :13:45.looking in these circumstances that the member indicated, what do we do
:13:45. > :13:51.where there are development opportunities for example, that are
:13:51. > :13:56.about to run out of time? So at the moment we are we are about to go
:13:56. > :14:02.and consult and this is within the next number of days around
:14:02. > :14:07.introducing, reduced fees for planning applications to be
:14:07. > :14:10.extended beyond the original lifetime of the approval namely
:14:10. > :14:15.five years in a way to demonstrate that at the moment there will be a
:14:15. > :14:21.lot of planning approvals that will go nowhere because of the recession,
:14:21. > :14:27.lack of money, bankruptcy and so on, so forth. Are there opportunities
:14:27. > :14:32.to aid development going forward by reducing the fees for renewal of
:14:32. > :14:36.planning approvals in a way that will keep the approvals live,
:14:36. > :14:40.especially if they are of great value, in a way that will plan for
:14:40. > :14:44.the time after a recession. The Environment Minister. Next, the
:14:44. > :14:52.gloves are off in Question Time as Sammy Wilson warns he won't be
:14:53. > :15:02.walked over by the press. But first the pension minister gives a
:15:02. > :15:07.warning about why Northern Ireland must meet the reform date.
:15:07. > :15:13.To keep in line with the equivalent schemes in the rest of the United
:15:13. > :15:21.Kingdom or in GB. Despite having made that decision I have been
:15:21. > :15:29.attelt to go persuade my colleagues in the executive to agree to
:15:29. > :15:31.legislative motion which would would enable the the Pension Bill
:15:31. > :15:37.to give effect to those reforms in Northern Ireland. Only if we do it
:15:37. > :15:42.in that way, can we avoid first of all falling behind the introduction
:15:42. > :15:47.of the pension reforms in the rest of the UK and more importantly,
:15:47. > :15:54.avoiding the very, very serious financial consequence that is there
:15:54. > :15:58.would be if we do fall behind the deadline of April 2015.
:15:58. > :16:03.This is a big challenge for Sinn Fein on this. Is are they prepared
:16:03. > :16:07.to face up to the financial challenge if we do not deliver this
:16:07. > :16:13.on time and I have got to say to this House that just as we have had
:16:13. > :16:18.the issue of Welfare Reform and the way in which members on the other
:16:18. > :16:22.side have tried to despite all of the evidence staring them in the
:16:22. > :16:28.face, tried to hold up the Welfare Reform with all of the financial
:16:28. > :16:35.consequences on that, Sinn Fein are doing the same on pensions, despite
:16:35. > :16:38.the fact they have agreed that we will follow the GB pension
:16:39. > :16:44.arrangements which are going through Westminster at present.
:16:44. > :16:47.Could you outline how the uptake of the new retail tenants compares
:16:47. > :16:53.with previous years when empty retail concessions were not in
:16:53. > :17:00.place? Well, again, I don't have the exact
:17:00. > :17:06.figures for that. What I can say is that despite the recession the the
:17:06. > :17:11.no matter which band you look at, the occupation of premises has
:17:11. > :17:16.remained steady, even though there has been the recession and I
:17:16. > :17:20.suspect many of the rates concessions have enabled us to keep
:17:20. > :17:24.that level of occupancy at the rate at which it is.
:17:24. > :17:30.Everyone knows in this House I seek to keep good relationships with my
:17:30. > :17:39.friends, my enemies, those who abuse me and those who praise me.
:17:39. > :17:42.However, on occasions when I believe that there has been wilful
:17:42. > :17:48.wrongdoing then I think it is right for any minister to impose whatever
:17:48. > :17:53.sanction they believe is necessary. And about a year ago, the Press
:17:53. > :17:57.Association ran a story which was totally without foundation, which
:17:57. > :18:01.they made no attempt to check, which even after they have been
:18:01. > :18:08.given the facts still stuck by their story, I don't believe that
:18:08. > :18:12.it would have been reasonable in a situation like that for me to have
:18:12. > :18:18.ignored what had been done and therefore, I made it clear that
:18:18. > :18:23.they would not get any co-operation from me or from my department. That
:18:23. > :18:29.situation existed until I met with Derek Henderson from the Press
:18:29. > :18:34.Association. He made a plea to have the situation changed. He made an
:18:34. > :18:38.polling, privately, not not prepared to do it publicly, but I
:18:38. > :18:45.accepted that and the situation was resolved a number of weeks ago, but
:18:45. > :18:52.let me make it clear that as a minister, I expect that people will
:18:52. > :18:58.not treat you with kid gloves, but I do not expect and will not allow
:18:58. > :19:03.people to wilfully walk over the top of me and even when that
:19:03. > :19:07.involves ignoring the facts. Snool I am tempted to ask the
:19:08. > :19:14.minister how many in each of those categories, who are friends and
:19:14. > :19:16.whoever else. I am just wondering if he reported the issue to the
:19:16. > :19:21.Press Complaints Commission and what was their response? I did
:19:21. > :19:25.report the matter to the Press Complaints Commission. The Press
:19:25. > :19:33.Complaints Commission upheld my objection to the story and asked
:19:33. > :19:38.for a retraction of the story. That was slow in coming which
:19:38. > :19:48.contributed to the way in which the matter was handled. I thought the
:19:48. > :19:55.
:19:55. > :20:02.member, I am glad he didn't, but I thought the member was start
:20:02. > :20:08.criticising me for my attitude to the press. I am glad he didn't go
:20:08. > :20:12.down that line because I would have had great fun had he done so.
:20:12. > :20:21.Sammy Wilson. The row between Mr Wilson and the Press Association
:20:21. > :20:29.was sparked by an incorrect story claiming the minister had been
:20:29. > :20:33.involved in blocking a party. Mr Henderson said it was another
:20:33. > :20:40.example of the tensions which exist from time to time between the media
:20:40. > :20:50.and local politicians. Cross-border education was on the
:20:50. > :20:52.
:20:52. > :20:57.agenda today as MLAs discussed a Sinn Fein motion.
:20:57. > :21:02.I want to propose this motion, a motion which is all about removing
:21:02. > :21:06.barriers which prevents students from the north from gaining
:21:06. > :21:11.admission to universities, colleges, and institutes of technology in the
:21:11. > :21:15.rest of the island. And of course, vice versa the problem of students
:21:15. > :21:20.from the south not being able to gain admission to universities in
:21:20. > :21:25.the north or gain relevant information appropriately. In
:21:25. > :21:30.proposing this motion I am conscious of a lot of young people
:21:30. > :21:33.who have experienced really an obstacle course of hurdles put in
:21:33. > :21:38.their way when they tried. Perhaps the member would have been best
:21:38. > :21:48.passing this motion on to his counterparts in the south who could
:21:48. > :21:53.
:21:53. > :21:57.have debated it in the the the Irish Parliament.
:21:57. > :22:00.Education and opportunities taking place on an east, west dimension as
:22:00. > :22:08.well as as well as on a north and south basis. Unfortunately, this
:22:08. > :22:16.motion fails to reflect that with a proposal being so narrow minded he
:22:16. > :22:23.chose only to deal with obstacles. This is one of the reasons why I
:22:23. > :22:28.cannot and will not be giving my support to the motion.
:22:28. > :22:33.To me, it was a half hearted approach to north and south co-
:22:33. > :22:37.operation. North and south was mentioned in the same breath as co-
:22:37. > :22:47.operation with Europe and the rest of the world. To me, the way ahead
:22:47. > :22:47.
:22:47. > :22:52.must be a multinational approach. Further education and schools work
:22:52. > :22:55.with the executive taking the lead. The Department of Education must
:22:55. > :22:59.collaborate with the Irish Department of Education and skills
:22:59. > :23:08.to ensure obstacles to cross-border education provision are minimised
:23:08. > :23:14.and will not be an impediment. It is said that our amendment was
:23:14. > :23:18.not pick up. So we did include Scotland, and England and Wales. I
:23:18. > :23:28.fear from my speech last week on education that certain people
:23:28. > :23:33.
:23:33. > :23:36.expect me to be paranoic. I would look forward to seeing this motion
:23:36. > :23:40.coming forward so that it includes everyone.
:23:40. > :23:45.He He remain committed to ensure that students from here continue to
:23:45. > :23:49.have a free choice of academic institution, whether local in Great
:23:49. > :23:53.Britain or in the Ireland or elsewhere. I recognise the
:23:53. > :23:59.important role played by all students in contributing to the
:23:59. > :24:03.multinational atmosphere of come of campuses throughout Northern
:24:03. > :24:08.Ireland. Any opportunities to increase student mobility should be
:24:08. > :24:11.considered. As part of this, I am committed to ensuring that any
:24:11. > :24:17.barriers to cross-border collaboration and mobility are
:24:17. > :24:26.addressed. This is not about favouring student flows in one
:24:26. > :24:31.particular direction over another. The motion was passed with 52
:24:31. > :24:35.members voting yes and 28, voting Barry McElduff is with me.
:24:35. > :24:39.Did you miss a trick here in focusing only in north and south
:24:39. > :24:44.relations as far as education is concerned and not looking at the
:24:44. > :24:49.real difficulty students here have in following educational third
:24:49. > :24:53.level degrees across the water?. support choice, you know. Whatever
:24:53. > :24:58.the young person, whatever is in the best educational interests of
:24:58. > :25:02.the young person is what I'm supporting. This debate wasn't
:25:02. > :25:08.narrowly focused because it is based on evidence coming from a
:25:08. > :25:14.specific report which was commissioned by the CBI on
:25:14. > :25:17.obparticularicals to -- obstacles. A similar report hasn't been
:25:17. > :25:23.carried out east and west. I am reacting to that report. That
:25:23. > :25:27.report is startling. There is an obstacle course of obstacles and
:25:27. > :25:30.barriers in the way of young people accessing the universities and
:25:30. > :25:39.courses of their choice on the island of Ireland.
:25:39. > :25:42.Does it suggest there is a partitionist mentality on the part
:25:42. > :25:47.of southern institutions? They don't need them in the sense they
:25:47. > :25:52.have the numbers already in the 26 counties. You could say that it is
:25:52. > :25:56.partitionist. Some of the of the universities down south are
:25:56. > :26:00.demonstrating appetite and hunger for the future. One of them is
:26:00. > :26:05.Dublin City University, coming to north and talking to people about
:26:05. > :26:08.enhancing their opportunities. Yes, there is work to be done with the
:26:08. > :26:11.independent republics which are universities, but there are
:26:11. > :26:15.obstacles in the way of young people at Government level as well
:26:15. > :26:20.for example. For example, in the whole business of entry
:26:20. > :26:23.requirements. They put the bar too high, do you accept that? They
:26:24. > :26:28.don't value our A-levels as well as they ought to? That's one of the
:26:28. > :26:32.points in the report and it is one the points I made today. It is
:26:32. > :26:37.wrong to believe that a leaving certificate examination in the
:26:37. > :26:42.south is worth two-thirds of an A- level. It would be more proper to
:26:42. > :26:48.be valued at half an A-level. Children in the Republic do seven
:26:48. > :26:54.or eight leaving cert exams, here, people do three or four A-levels.
:26:54. > :27:03.You have got to compare like with like? It is onerous to expect a
:27:03. > :27:07.young person to achieve four A star to get into the high demand courses,
:27:07. > :27:14.pharmacy, dentistry and law. It is shutting the door.
:27:14. > :27:18.How do you persuade the powers that be down south? Here are people in
:27:18. > :27:21.Dublin and elsewhere in the Republic involved in the
:27:21. > :27:25.institutions who don't agree with you and seem to want to do
:27:25. > :27:29.everything they can to stop students from here going down there.
:27:29. > :27:33.High quality, high flying students who would add to the education
:27:33. > :27:40.experience of everybody if they were at Trinity and UCD? That's the
:27:40. > :27:46.point I'm making. We want the central admissions office and UCAS
:27:46. > :27:53.to be more streamline. It is like pulling hen's teeth to get careers
:27:53. > :27:56.advice about options down south. The CA O and the UCAS, I would like
:27:56. > :28:00.to know who is their Chief Executive. We have asked for them
:28:00. > :28:05.to come before the employment and learning committee and
:28:06. > :28:15.interestingly today, the motion was passed, the Sinn Fein motion was
:28:16. > :28:17.
:28:17. > :28:23.passed with the support of the of the SDLP, it was the DUP and Jim
:28:23. > :28:27.Alistair had a reflex action. This is the same DUP who are active
:28:27. > :28:30.participants in the north and south inter-parliamentary association.
:28:30. > :28:33.This is about making sure that there is a proper cross-
:28:33. > :28:39.fertilisation of students on the island of Ireland.
:28:39. > :28:42.Can you maybe it better? Yes. It is all about holding to account CAO
:28:42. > :28:45.and UCAS and the employment and learning committee, we have asked
:28:45. > :28:49.for them to come before us sooner rather than later.