:00:27. > :00:37.Hello and welcome to Stormont Today. With the First Minister telling his
:00:37. > :00:41.
:00:41. > :00:45.party conference he wants an end to the them and bus -- us mentality,
:00:45. > :00:54.is it touchy-feely politics? glad to see I can still get under
:00:54. > :00:58.the skin of Sinn Fein. And this statement... I believe the current
:00:58. > :01:02.system of teacher training is neither affordable nor sustainable,
:01:02. > :01:08.this is why I believe it is essential to carry out the study
:01:08. > :01:13.and produce objective analysis of the financial stability of the two
:01:13. > :01:21.university colleges. My guest throughout the programme is Sandy
:01:21. > :01:25.Smith from Enterprise Northern Ireland. The Chancellor is due to
:01:25. > :01:30.make his Autumn Statement tomorrow, that is on top of the discussion
:01:30. > :01:33.about Arrow programme for government. Small and medium-sized
:01:33. > :01:41.businesses are flavour of the month but how much will the measures
:01:41. > :01:45.help? Sandy Smith, we had a discussion lastly, programme about
:01:45. > :01:50.some criticism about the programme for government not emphasising
:01:50. > :01:54.enterprise enough, do you think that is the case? We welcome the
:01:54. > :01:58.programme for government and we would like to see something in it
:01:58. > :02:02.about enterprise strategy. Our response to the programme for
:02:02. > :02:07.government will be to help the assembly to put something in place
:02:07. > :02:15.that will stimulate enterprise and that a bigger proportion of our
:02:15. > :02:20.budget will go into specific issues. Will the fund not go a long way to
:02:20. > :02:24.helping small and medium-sized businesses either expand or get off
:02:25. > :02:28.the ground? It would be if that money did get his way to small
:02:28. > :02:32.businesses, but under the current budget there is a very small
:02:32. > :02:39.portion of the Budget that gets to small businesses to help them, both
:02:39. > :02:43.in terms of capital to work with and in business start-up. The
:02:43. > :02:46.programme we have been operating over the last few years is of the
:02:46. > :02:50.order of a couple of million pounds, and what is in the budget currently
:02:50. > :02:56.will be something of that order, whereas the overall budget is
:02:56. > :03:01.something like 180 million so a very small proportion is spent on
:03:01. > :03:05.stimulating small businesses. the government not emphasise and
:03:05. > :03:15.put its eggs in the basket of foreign investment because they see
:03:15. > :03:19.that as were the big job numbers come from? They do, but is that
:03:19. > :03:29.where the big jobs come from? I suppose if you were developing a
:03:29. > :03:36.
:03:36. > :03:40.business model, you would be saying out of the entire budget a third of
:03:40. > :03:44.the money might going to growing businesses locally, and a third of
:03:44. > :03:49.the money going into stimulating new business start-up. No economist
:03:49. > :03:53.really has come up with a total solution to an economy like ours,
:03:53. > :03:57.but if there are three possible ways of generating business, I
:03:57. > :04:02.think a reasonable suggestion that at least something approximating
:04:02. > :04:08.one third of the Budget should go into each of the three pocket.
:04:08. > :04:13.with us. There was good news for mountain bikers and lovers of
:04:13. > :04:16.nocturnal wildlife at question time today as the agriculture minister
:04:16. > :04:26.Didier U-turn over closing forest at night, and the plastic bag tax
:04:26. > :04:28.
:04:28. > :04:38.was back on the agenda. He was the new policy in response to Sam
:04:38. > :04:44.Gardner. I wish to see forests used widely. Section 1 of the Forestry
:04:44. > :04:49.Act creates a right for users subject to bye-laws. Those rules
:04:49. > :04:54.should make clear to when these are suspended, for example when there
:04:54. > :04:57.was a risk to health and safety. That Wright should also be
:04:57. > :05:04.suspended when there is anti-social behaviour, when there is damage to
:05:04. > :05:10.the forest, or officials are being obstructed. There is a need to
:05:10. > :05:13.adopt a less restrictive by-laws and suggests most people behave
:05:13. > :05:22.responsibly for their own safety but also their attitude to other
:05:22. > :05:25.forest users. After consulting with the agriculture committee, I am
:05:25. > :05:31.proposing to relax the restriction of night-time used by pedestrians,
:05:31. > :05:34.to allow the continued use of forest roads after dark, and I also
:05:34. > :05:41.intend to put cycling and other recreational facilities across as
:05:41. > :05:46.much forest land as possible. ask her why she is proposing to
:05:46. > :05:52.relax the situation, could she give a commitment to the house that she
:05:52. > :05:55.will also be very happy to reveal with a view to increasing the
:05:55. > :06:01.number of designated mountain biking and cycling routes within
:06:01. > :06:07.forest parks? I have a meeting in the next few weeks with the
:06:07. > :06:12.mountain biking Association. I have met them informally before just so
:06:12. > :06:16.we can work in partnership more together. Our strategy set out that
:06:16. > :06:23.we need to work in partnership more for recreational use, so that is
:06:23. > :06:28.one of the issues I am actively working on. Egg producers have been
:06:28. > :06:32.complaining the ban on battery eggs is not being complied with by many
:06:32. > :06:42.other states in the EU so what is the minister doing to ensure a
:06:42. > :06:44.
:06:44. > :06:54.level playing field? Many states are in a position to comply with
:06:54. > :06:56.the ban on battery eggs. A legal production could adversely affect
:06:56. > :07:02.stability and fairness in the sector which is important to our
:07:02. > :07:06.economy. I have been working closely with ministers regarding
:07:06. > :07:09.the implementation of the laying hens directed. We have pressed the
:07:09. > :07:15.commission to agree a way forward on enforcing the new rules that
:07:15. > :07:21.will protect our producers who are compliant from disadvantaged. There
:07:21. > :07:31.is also an agreement that would allow eggs from legal cages only to
:07:31. > :07:34.be processed in the state, and a plan to see how they will reach
:07:35. > :07:40.full compliance. I have made it clear I want any proposal brought
:07:40. > :07:42.forward by the Commission to have guarantees built in, and for any
:07:42. > :07:48.legislative amendments to be brought forward as a matter of
:07:48. > :07:52.urgency. The plastic bag tax is not as straightforward as it might seem
:07:52. > :07:56.- it's actually a single use carrier-bag Levy, and the
:07:56. > :08:00.complications don't end there. the minister does bring forward
:08:00. > :08:04.this tax, could he tell the House how it would be collected, who
:08:04. > :08:08.would be collected, the cost of administration of that collection
:08:08. > :08:13.and how his department would be able to know how many bags
:08:13. > :08:19.retailers were handing out? Could I thank the member, and those are
:08:19. > :08:23.matters that do occupy my mind at the moment. The simple model in
:08:23. > :08:28.terms of collection would be for her Majesty's Revenue and Customs
:08:28. > :08:33.to collect on behalf of the Northern Ireland government. They
:08:33. > :08:38.do so in respect of all other taxes including VAT at the point of sale,
:08:38. > :08:43.and it seems to me that is the right model going forward. That
:08:43. > :08:49.where you would be able to mitigate the bureaucracy and expense and the
:08:49. > :08:57.upfront cost in introducing this levy on the single bag users. So
:08:57. > :09:01.far however, HMRC have declined that offer, but I welcome the fact
:09:01. > :09:07.that you have written to the Treasury to ask that they would
:09:07. > :09:13.further consider putting into their IT systems a mechanism whereby this
:09:13. > :09:20.levy would be collected by them. I hope they will accept that proposal
:09:20. > :09:24.because the alternatives are either end in-house or out house model is
:09:24. > :09:31.likely to be more expensive, more bureaucratic, reduce the amount of
:09:31. > :09:36.income that would come to our own Exchequer arising from the single
:09:36. > :09:42.bag levy. I hope the HMRC recognising that tax affairs are
:09:42. > :09:51.changing, that administrations will look for flexibilities in the
:09:51. > :09:54.future and they could use this particular intervention as a model,
:09:54. > :09:58.adjusting their financial mechanisms and tax collecting
:09:58. > :10:04.mechanisms in a way that helps devolved administrations going
:10:05. > :10:13.forward. He would have thought the public administration would provide
:10:13. > :10:17.light relief? Responsibility was handed out of the blue-eyed boys,
:10:17. > :10:24.irrespective of their ability to carry out duties. Can the Minister
:10:24. > :10:29.assure the House that in this new 15 member council that members will
:10:29. > :10:33.in fact have the capacity training and will honestly earned the
:10:33. > :10:40.additional money that they may receive? Because that is not what
:10:41. > :10:50.happened in all cases in the past. Last time I looked my eyes were
:10:50. > :11:00.green, not brown. It is only Margaret who thinks I am the blue-
:11:00. > :11:01.
:11:01. > :11:09.eyed boy. Let's not go there! more serious note, a quick appeal
:11:09. > :11:13.to Alex Attwood and Paul MLAs, please speaking to the microphone.
:11:13. > :11:16.The employment and learning minister says there should be a
:11:16. > :11:20.single teacher training system in Northern Ireland. He says there is
:11:20. > :11:24.no reason why teachers should be trained in five separate
:11:24. > :11:29.institutions and he told MLAs he remains committed to a merger
:11:29. > :11:34.between strong mayor teaching College and Queen's University.
:11:34. > :11:38.desire is to facilitate and agree a shared system of teacher education.
:11:38. > :11:42.I'm not going to be prescriptive of the type of sharing and integration
:11:43. > :11:52.that may be recommended by the study. Areas for consideration
:11:53. > :11:56.
:11:56. > :12:06.should include services, facilities and teaching. This is regarding an
:12:06. > :12:07.
:12:07. > :12:11.- issues like quality of access. I believe the current system of
:12:11. > :12:15.teacher training is neither affordable nor sustainable. This is
:12:15. > :12:19.why I believe it is essential to carry out the study and produce
:12:19. > :12:26.subjective analysis of the financial stability of the two
:12:26. > :12:30.university colleges, but I think it does also need to be undertaken an
:12:30. > :12:35.informed debate of the funding in the future. I'm convinced the best
:12:35. > :12:40.way forward is to develop a fully integrated education system
:12:40. > :12:45.comprising an integrated system of teacher education. However, I know
:12:45. > :12:52.I can't deliver this by myself and the views of others, including in
:12:52. > :12:57.particular the stakeholders, are critical. Why it is this
:12:57. > :13:07.announcement only about two and universities? Is the Minister
:13:07. > :13:11.
:13:11. > :13:20.In April 2003 a joint study was begun by the Department of
:13:20. > :13:24.Education into teacher education. It went out to consultation last
:13:24. > :13:31.year and consultation closed a year ago today. I wonder if the minister
:13:31. > :13:35.could tell us what is the future of that strategic review and why this
:13:35. > :13:45.is not a joint review being conducted by his department and the
:13:45. > :13:45.
:13:45. > :13:53.Department of Education? Does he not except that in page five of his
:13:53. > :13:59.statement when he talks about Strang moors College managing its
:13:59. > :14:04.affairs as best it can? At the outset of his statement he said
:14:04. > :14:13.that he talked about the values and traditions of colleges. Can hire --
:14:13. > :14:18.can I ask how he can guarantee that the unique heritage of that college
:14:18. > :14:24.will be preserved in such a merger? With me is the chair of the
:14:25. > :14:30.employment and learning committee. We are talking about them and us
:14:30. > :14:34.politics and the debate sounded very much for them and us. Yes, it
:14:34. > :14:40.was disappointing. The key point is that we are producing too many
:14:40. > :14:45.teachers and we are going to have to rationalise. Sooner or later we
:14:45. > :14:51.will have to put the three of them into one. Are you not guilty of
:14:51. > :14:58.them and us as well by calling for the merger? For me it was pure
:14:58. > :15:02.economics that if you are �2.5 million down and you do not have
:15:02. > :15:06.any money you have to do something. The real problem is that only 10 %
:15:06. > :15:10.of the teachers we produce our getting full-time jobs when they
:15:10. > :15:17.leave. If you are producing and that many teachers, there is
:15:17. > :15:22.clearly something wrong. Why not rationalise with the two colleges
:15:23. > :15:27.merging and look at the St Mary's issue further down the line? There
:15:27. > :15:37.is a concern that if you go down one brute that Rolls will be
:15:37. > :15:38.
:15:38. > :15:42.changed. What is important in the society in which we operate is that
:15:42. > :15:46.there should be one rule for everyone. You can look at the
:15:46. > :15:54.balance sheet and say that you need to take action now. What has
:15:54. > :15:58.happened with this decision is that strangles has been hung out to dry.
:15:59. > :16:04.It will lose money and it will be difficult for the staff and the
:16:04. > :16:14.students and I do not think it will be much better for St Mary's.
:16:14. > :16:17.
:16:17. > :16:23.don't think this is a case so far as Sinn Fein and the lining up to
:16:23. > :16:27.support St Mary's? At there are obviously tie is in this area but
:16:27. > :16:32.that does not mean you can't rationalise the situation. More
:16:32. > :16:38.dialogue would be better. I can say to you that we are taking a very
:16:38. > :16:42.impartial point of view. As a party we have accepted that it is not the
:16:42. > :16:48.case that strangles has a Protestant ethos, it takes students
:16:48. > :16:53.of all denominations, and we are trying to get the best training for
:16:53. > :16:59.our teachers. What about your committee? There seems to be a
:16:59. > :17:03.state of some disruption there. You were off on your trip to Paris last
:17:03. > :17:08.week and in your absence this decision was taken about when
:17:08. > :17:13.stayed's strike and you returned it today. It has been claimed that
:17:13. > :17:19.that was undemocratic. It certainly was not undemocratic. The way you
:17:19. > :17:25.deal with things in any committee is that you publish the agenda and
:17:25. > :17:30.if you have any minor bits you can deal with them in any other
:17:30. > :17:34.business. Today's meeting was done properly. Notice was given in
:17:35. > :17:40.advance, here is what we are going to discuss, everybody had a chance
:17:40. > :17:46.to have their say and we had a democratic vote. Barry was being a
:17:46. > :17:55.bit opportunistic, shall we say, when I was away, which is politics,
:17:55. > :18:05.but I have made sure that the vote has been regularised. FE are you in
:18:05. > :18:06.
:18:06. > :18:12.charge, given what happened in the sand by Diego trip? -- San Diego.
:18:12. > :18:16.chairman is there to chair meetings. I only have two of votes.
:18:16. > :18:21.Everything is done by consensus. The issue with San Diego as a
:18:21. > :18:26.disappointment because I thought that was blown out of proportion. -
:18:26. > :18:30.- is a disappointment. This was only a proprietary negotiation and
:18:30. > :18:36.it was only going to go ahead if everybody agreed and I will be
:18:36. > :18:42.showing two members of committee when we meet again is the
:18:42. > :18:46.transcripts of the meetings at which they agreed to it. Thank you
:18:46. > :18:49.very much. Sandy Wilson may have had them in stitches at the DUP
:18:49. > :18:59.conference on Saturday but his comments have angered some Sinn
:18:59. > :19:05.
:19:05. > :19:13.Fein members. My primary function is to
:19:13. > :19:18.scrutinise the work of the minister. I found his remarks at the weekend
:19:18. > :19:23.disgraceful, speaking as a former prisoner. I found that they were
:19:23. > :19:30.demeaning to him as a prisoner and to the entire executive and I would
:19:30. > :19:40.go as far as to say that they eat demeaned the audience at home.
:19:40. > :19:45.Those remarks bear absolutely no relation to what he still got to
:19:46. > :19:51.say. I am glad to say that I can still get under the skin of Sinn
:19:51. > :20:01.Fein. It pleases me but I have the response from them but I do. --
:20:01. > :20:02.
:20:02. > :20:08.about I have. -- that I have. The imagery her children being placed
:20:08. > :20:15.in a long creche is not something I made up. They were the people who
:20:15. > :20:25.called the nursery long creche. By simply followed up a bat in a jury
:20:25. > :20:31.
:20:31. > :20:41.and I am sure many people across Northern Ireland will be amused. --
:20:41. > :20:46.
:20:46. > :20:51.followed up goes comments. -- those are. I assume they agreed with all
:20:51. > :20:55.of my comments about the former education minister. Staying with
:20:55. > :21:00.the DUP conference, conferences are full of people trying to get their
:21:00. > :21:04.case across the politicians. I met one campaign on Saturday he has
:21:04. > :21:09.been highlighting the plight of patients with learning difficulties
:21:09. > :21:16.trying to get rehabilitated into the community. A lack of resources
:21:16. > :21:24.means that we will take some years for all of these patients to be
:21:24. > :21:31.rehabilitated. You have more freedom in the community. You can
:21:31. > :21:37.go to your local shop, the cinema, the opera house, you can visit
:21:37. > :21:47.museums. So it is an issue of independence? Yes. A bit more
:21:47. > :21:55.
:21:55. > :22:00.freedom to do things. People in -- what do you think people need?
:22:00. > :22:04.need places where there is freedom to come and go but where they can
:22:04. > :22:11.be looked after at the same time, where they get meals cooked for
:22:11. > :22:15.them. That shows that everybody is looking for money for all kinds of
:22:15. > :22:20.campaigns. What can you say to the government to prove to them that
:22:20. > :22:27.you do a good job and you are creating jobs? All of the
:22:27. > :22:34.performance indicators do we have met and that is very important. We
:22:34. > :22:37.met with a group of MLAs today and we showed them what we have
:22:37. > :22:40.achieved. The other interesting statistic is that for every small
:22:41. > :22:44.business you start each one generates almost three jobs and
:22:44. > :22:51.over the period of the last seven years of the programmes we have
:22:51. > :22:56.been running we have generated almost 20,000 jobs. That is a very
:22:56. > :23:00.important statistic and a very good use of the resources. If we had
:23:00. > :23:06.more resources we could continue to produce those outstanding
:23:06. > :23:10.achievements. What is in a name? Quite a lot, it would seem. What we
:23:10. > :23:16.call things or people could have serious implications so what should
:23:16. > :23:21.we call people over the age of 60? It is an issue that clearly matters
:23:21. > :23:31.to 1 m l a, as we look at our regular look at the work of the
:23:31. > :23:37.Stormont committees. -- MLAs. you adopt the terminology of senior
:23:37. > :23:43.citizens instead of older people? Don't put those people down. They
:23:43. > :23:51.don't want to be referred to as being old, even at 100 they are
:23:51. > :23:55.senior citizens. We would not call anybody old. You talk about
:23:55. > :24:05.services far older people. People are comfortable about being
:24:05. > :24:06.
:24:06. > :24:15.described as that. There are mixed views on senior citizens, as long
:24:15. > :24:21.as they are not called the LED -- the elderly! The old people's home
:24:21. > :24:31.is probably something we should ban. It just shows how vexed our
:24:31. > :24:39.
:24:39. > :24:43.language is. They resented. -- and they resent it. In terms of the
:24:43. > :24:50.public perception, there is clear damage being done to the minister
:24:50. > :24:53.and the Department and in terms of the perception of a lack of
:24:53. > :24:58.transparency and this is not the first time that such an allegation
:24:58. > :25:02.has been labelled against this minister, so it is very important,
:25:02. > :25:08.if this committee asks the minister to appear before it, to get some
:25:08. > :25:14.clarity on what is going on and how this process came about, where a
:25:14. > :25:20.five-year licence to give one company be exclusive rights to
:25:20. > :25:25.extract gas from 750 square kilometres of countryside included
:25:25. > :25:32.a farm holding belonging to the minister's husband. I think the
:25:32. > :25:35.committee should invite her to appear before the committee.
:25:35. > :25:39.accusations are coming from Mr Flanagan but it comes no surprise
:25:39. > :25:44.to those of us to have been watching his activities over the
:25:44. > :25:54.past few months. Any opportunity he gets to have a go at the minister,
:25:54. > :25:55.
:25:55. > :26:05.he has a go. It is very unfortunate that we, as a committee, are
:26:05. > :26:11.
:26:11. > :26:16.hearing such wild accusations. he tells us that there is no
:26:16. > :26:22.conflict of interest and there is nothing to declare, he can say that,
:26:22. > :26:32.but we need transparency. Myself and the deputy chairmen meet with
:26:32. > :26:33.
:26:33. > :26:40.the minister with a beauty trying to understand what his position is,
:26:40. > :26:47.and also extending the invitation to attend the committee.
:26:47. > :26:57.necessarily next week. I think the import is that she would attend
:26:57. > :26:59.
:26:59. > :27:02.next week. That committee is due to meet again later this week and if
:27:03. > :27:08.the minister is there we will bring you the highlights. Another appeal
:27:08. > :27:13.to MLAs - please turn off your mobile phones so that we do not get
:27:13. > :27:20.that buzzing. You can keep up with just about everything going on in
:27:20. > :27:27.the Chamber by going to our democracy live page.
:27:27. > :27:32.We heard earlier how Peter Robinson used his conference at the weekend
:27:32. > :27:41.to call for an end to sectarian division but any end to them and us
:27:41. > :27:47.politics does not seem likely if today's business is to go by.
:27:47. > :27:51.At the weekend Peter Robinson's vision was for an end to them and
:27:51. > :27:57.us politics but there was a lot of it around the building today. In
:27:57. > :28:03.the teacher training to belt we saw the Alliance Party coming under
:28:03. > :28:09.fire from both nationalists and Unionists as he tried to to work
:28:09. > :28:14.towards a joint policy. If this is the problems about a single shared
:28:14. > :28:19.education system, it is not a good omen.
:28:19. > :28:24.There was more them and us about policing. There was never going to
:28:25. > :28:32.be a meeting of minds about this. The nationalists were asking for --
:28:32. > :28:39.former police officers to be compelled into co-operating with
:28:39. > :28:46.investigations into past wrongdoing. The DUP effectively put a blocking
:28:46. > :28:55.motion into place, meaning but the nationalists would need a cross-
:28:55. > :29:04.community agreement. -- and meaning that. The support is very extensive
:29:04. > :29:08.across Northern Ireland. We have expert access to bore facilities
:29:08. > :29:14.for people wanting to start up businesses and there is a massive
:29:14. > :29:24.support network for people with businesses. You can get space and
:29:24. > :29:26.
:29:26. > :29:31.use workshops. Yes, and we would like to see new businesses coming
:29:32. > :29:37.in to the areas available. More importantly, the expertise that