:00:51. > :01:00.Gay marriage is debated again, but This is an issue of redefining
:01:00. > :01:03.marriage. Regina Purdey will be here on with her analysis. And the health
:01:03. > :01:08.minister explains more about the recommendation to locate children's
:01:08. > :01:12.heart surgery in the Republic rather than England. I was wholly opposed
:01:12. > :01:22.to that idea from the outset, and getting it to an all Ireland network
:01:22. > :01:27.
:01:27. > :01:35.that dominated discussion in the halls of Stormont today. MLAs were
:01:35. > :01:37.debating a Sinn Fein motion that called for legislation to allow for
:01:37. > :01:47.same-sex marriage fewer than six months since a similar motion was
:01:47. > :01:48.
:01:48. > :01:52.defeated. Martina, how come we are back here again? As you say, the SU
:01:52. > :01:54.was raised last October, but since then, in the Republic, the has been
:01:54. > :02:01.a constitutional convention to examine whether the Irish
:02:01. > :02:06.constitution should become changed, and there was a 79% vote in favour
:02:06. > :02:12.of same-sex marriage. It was in that context that Sinn Fein wanted to
:02:12. > :02:17.return to the assembly to note that development and ask the elective to
:02:17. > :02:22.legislate in favour of what they say is equal marriage. That has caused
:02:22. > :02:25.some resentment within the chamber. Some are saying it is too soon to
:02:25. > :02:30.revisit the issue, but obviously Sinn Fein feel very strongly, and
:02:30. > :02:38.they want to be consistent. Alliance party tabled an amendment
:02:38. > :02:43.today? The Alliance party tabled the amendment, and they passed an
:02:43. > :02:46.executive motion in its party last October saying that they would be in
:02:46. > :02:50.favour of same-sex marriage provided they were safeguards for faith
:02:50. > :02:54.groups such as churches, and that was the amendment that the party
:02:54. > :02:59.tabled today. The difficulty from the Alliance perspective is that not
:02:59. > :03:04.only was it rejected by the assembly, but not everyone in the
:03:04. > :03:10.Alliance party supported the amendment. Stay with us, Martina.
:03:11. > :03:13.Let's hear exactly what happened in the chamber during today's debate.
:03:13. > :03:20.Barriers are breaking down, step-by-step, but there is more to
:03:20. > :03:23.be done. You cannot support equality and be a racist, and you cannot
:03:23. > :03:29.support equality and perpetuate sexual discrimination, and you
:03:30. > :03:38.cannot support equality and be homophobic. MLAs represent every
:03:38. > :03:41.section of our society, including our LGB team members. In a speech on
:03:41. > :03:44.the community, Hillary Clinton said that progress comes from being
:03:45. > :03:52.willing to walk a mile and someone else's shoes. She said we need to
:03:52. > :03:59.ask ourselves, how would it feel if it were a crime to love the person
:03:59. > :04:04.that I love? How would it feel to be discriminated against for something
:04:04. > :04:07.about myself which I cannot change? There are two main reasons for the
:04:07. > :04:12.amendment. The first is that we believe that the current motion from
:04:12. > :04:15.Sinn Fein is deficient, and it is not clearly ballads in support for
:04:15. > :04:20.same-sex civil with another knowledge meant of religious freedom
:04:21. > :04:26.and the rights of faith groups. As far as we are concerned, this is an
:04:26. > :04:29.essential prerequisite around the Alliance party's endorsement of
:04:29. > :04:39.same-sex marriage, and I believe that view is shared with many others
:04:39. > :04:39.
:04:39. > :04:49.across the society. The second is that lively and land league --
:04:49. > :04:49.
:04:49. > :04:53.blindly calling for immediate legislation. We could send a
:04:53. > :04:56.powerful message about support for same-sex marriage alongside a vital
:04:57. > :05:01.acknowledgement of the need for engagement and the need for mutual
:05:01. > :05:04.respect. There is clearly a difference between my position and
:05:04. > :05:11.that of many, including many in this house who share my personal values
:05:11. > :05:15.and my faith. For them, a Christian should uses influence in the public
:05:15. > :05:21.sphere to put forward Christian values, not only by example but in
:05:21. > :05:26.legislation. That is not my position. I have never felt it in my
:05:26. > :05:36.duty to impose my values on other members of society. If I lived in a
:05:36. > :05:38.
:05:38. > :05:42.Islamic state, I would oppose the introduction of Sharia law. I oppose
:05:42. > :05:47.the motion, not because I oppose anybody on how they choose to live
:05:47. > :05:51.their lives, but because we support something. What we support is the
:05:52. > :05:56.Institute of marriage, and the traditional, long-standing,
:05:56. > :06:00.centuries-old definition of marriage. I am a great believer in
:06:00. > :06:10.marriage. In fact, I am getting married in December myself, if
:06:10. > :06:11.
:06:11. > :06:15.things go the way I hope. But my view on this, Mr Speaker, is that
:06:15. > :06:17.marriage is an institution that we can all value. When two people love
:06:17. > :06:22.each other and are prepared to commit and share their lives
:06:22. > :06:26.together, I think that should he supported. But I think when two
:06:26. > :06:33.people of the same-sex commit and love each other and want to commit
:06:33. > :06:38.their lives together, that should be supported as well. My view on gay
:06:38. > :06:42.marriage isn't that it threatens the institution of marriage, in fact it
:06:42. > :06:46.strengthens it, and it extends it to those people who want to be married.
:06:46. > :06:49.In the previous debate I made clear my opposition to any change in the
:06:49. > :06:55.current legislation to allow same-sex marriage. That remains my
:06:55. > :06:58.position. It is a position based on my own religious beliefs. It is a
:06:59. > :07:02.position which I believe is consistent with the teaching of my
:07:02. > :07:07.church, the Presbyterian Church, and indeed, consistent with publicly
:07:07. > :07:11.expressed views of other churches, including the Roman Catholic Church
:07:11. > :07:16.and the Church of Ireland. And finally, it is a position which is
:07:16. > :07:20.fundamentally consistent with the teaching of holy Scripture. Mr
:07:20. > :07:23.Speaker, I listen carefully to Mr Ford, and this is where I differ. As
:07:23. > :07:33.a Christian involved in politics, I very often recall the words of
:07:33. > :07:34.
:07:34. > :07:43.Cardinal Wolsey. He was the confidante of Henry VIII. He said, I
:07:43. > :07:48.would that I had served my god as I have served my keen on his deathbed.
:07:48. > :07:58.The truth is, there is a generation of young people, and I see them
:07:58. > :08:02.every day in my office, who, because of their treatment by society, find
:08:02. > :08:07.themselves feeling on the margins, feeling excluded and feeling
:08:07. > :08:14.prejudiced. We need to be careful. We need to be careful that what we
:08:14. > :08:22.say does not drive some individual to feel further worthlessness, or to
:08:22. > :08:28.be more inclined to take their own lives. This has been put forward as
:08:28. > :08:34.an issue of equality. It is not an issue of equality. This is an issue
:08:34. > :08:40.of redefining marriage. And not marriage is defined by the state,
:08:40. > :08:45.but marriage as has always been understood. In fact, the state did
:08:45. > :08:48.not define marriage. All the state has simply done is enshrined in view
:08:48. > :08:54.that always pertained, even in ancient societies, long before there
:08:54. > :08:57.were religious views in this, that marriage is between a man and a
:08:57. > :09:03.woman for security, comfort and support, and the procreation of
:09:03. > :09:07.children. What will happen, and this is where people's right will get
:09:07. > :09:12.trampled on. If the definition of marriage is to be changed, once
:09:12. > :09:17.there is a change in the legal definition of marriage, then those
:09:17. > :09:26.who take a contrary view will find themselves up against the law. Their
:09:26. > :09:32.rights will be infringed. As far as this house is concerned, we have
:09:32. > :09:37.introduced concern today. I believe that we have got every right to
:09:38. > :09:42.introduce this concern, because our position on this, we believe this is
:09:42. > :09:48.such an important issue that it is one that it is appropriate to use
:09:48. > :09:56.the mechanism which allows to stop reckless legislation in this
:09:57. > :10:00.assembly. The DUP's Sammy Wilson. Martina is still with me. The DUP
:10:00. > :10:07.tabled a petition of concern, effectively vetoing the motion
:10:07. > :10:13.today. How did MLAs wrote? majority voted against the motion,
:10:13. > :10:23.53 to 42. Set effectively the DUP veto wasn't needed. But it does on
:10:23. > :10:28.
:10:28. > :10:35.the core -- the depth of feeling within the DUP. All the Sinn Fein
:10:36. > :10:44.MLA is turned up to vote in favour of the motion. What about the and
:10:44. > :10:47.the STL the? They voted against with two exceptions. The party leader,
:10:47. > :10:52.Mike Nesbitt, wasn't there to vote because he was away on assembly
:10:52. > :10:57.business. But he is on record as saying that he would have voted
:10:57. > :11:02.against it, but he believes that civil partnerships are sufficient.
:11:02. > :11:12.Out of the 14 MLAs of the SDLP, eight voted in favour of same-sex
:11:12. > :11:16.
:11:16. > :11:25.marriage alongside Sinn Fein. There were five no-shows. What about the
:11:25. > :11:34.Alliance party? Stephen Agnew of the Green party voted yes. Basil McCrea
:11:34. > :11:38.voted yes. David McNarry voted no. Jim Allister voted no. David McCarty
:11:38. > :11:45.was unwell and not here to vote. In terms of the Alliance party, you
:11:45. > :11:48.could say they were all over the show. The party tabled an amendment
:11:48. > :11:52.seeking safeguards for faith groups to ensure that churches would not be
:11:52. > :11:58.forced under the law to perform same-sex marriages. But not everyone
:11:58. > :12:03.in the Alliance party backs this amendment. Trevor Lunn opposed it,
:12:03. > :12:08.and others abstained. When it came to the substantive motion, the Sinn
:12:08. > :12:13.Fein motion, the party's official position was to add stain, and that
:12:13. > :12:19.is what the party leader, David Ford, did. The minister would have
:12:19. > :12:23.abstained but he had to leave before a meeting. But notably, Trevor Lunn
:12:23. > :12:29.voted against same-sex marriage, as did Judith Cochrane, and Anna Lo was
:12:29. > :12:33.the only member of her party to vote in favour. And just finally, the
:12:33. > :12:39.issue has now been debated twice. that over and done with, or will it
:12:39. > :12:43.be discussed again? This has been an issue right across Europe, and
:12:43. > :12:46.indeed North America. It is not going to go away. Campaigners will
:12:46. > :12:53.keep on pressing, and it will be part of the assembly soon enough.
:12:53. > :12:58.Martina, thank you. MLAs had an hour and a half to debate the motion
:12:58. > :13:03.today, but not everyone got their say. The time was allocated by the
:13:03. > :13:13.gimp business committee, and not everyone was happy with how that was
:13:13. > :13:22.
:13:22. > :13:27.that not enough? If Chris Little had not let me speak, I would not have
:13:27. > :13:32.got time to say anything. It was interesting when I listen to how the
:13:32. > :13:36.voting was going, many of these votes are won or lost by what the
:13:36. > :13:43.Independents do. It would have been better for democracy if we had a
:13:43. > :13:53.chance to speak. If you had got five minutes, what would you have said?
:13:53. > :13:55.
:13:55. > :13:58.would have said that everyone is a son or daughter, they are an
:13:58. > :14:01.individual and the way democracy should be judged is how we deal with
:14:01. > :14:05.minorities. That is what you would have said. You were not given that
:14:05. > :14:10.platform. Is it your contention that increasingly Independents are being
:14:10. > :14:17.squeezed out of important debates? Absolutely. The debate should not
:14:17. > :14:22.have been limited, it is huge issue. We finished at 4:30pm, we
:14:22. > :14:29.could have spoken a lot longer and got everyone who wanted to speak to
:14:29. > :14:37.talk. I know that Jim Allister wanted to speak as well. What is the
:14:37. > :14:43.rationale of the committee for setting a time limit on the debate?
:14:43. > :14:47.This place is criticised for not debating a big issues. Their
:14:47. > :14:50.rationale appears to control the agenda and what is obvious that most
:14:50. > :15:00.of the good speakers in the Assembly, who do not always agree
:15:00. > :15:02.
:15:02. > :15:05.with, but we do not get a chance to speak. That is why a lot of the
:15:05. > :15:09.debates are so boring. They are determined to control the agenda, it
:15:09. > :15:16.is not good democracy and I do not believe it should be allowed to
:15:16. > :15:20.continue. Is this a bigger problem? Yes. You will see it during question
:15:20. > :15:24.time, you cannot get motions put forward, this is all done in a
:15:25. > :15:34.controlled fashion and it is no wonder that people are upset.
:15:35. > :15:40.
:15:40. > :15:43.can you do about it? You're not happy about it. We have all raised
:15:43. > :15:46.it with the powers that be. Hopefully in the elections, we will
:15:46. > :15:48.be in a position to do something about it. It is a long way away. We
:15:48. > :15:51.will take our arguments through different channels, through the
:15:51. > :15:53.media, but it seems to be silly when we are having this big debate about
:15:53. > :16:00.important issues and key people with good electoral mandates are not
:16:00. > :16:04.allowed to speak in the Assembly. will see if the issue is addressed.
:16:04. > :16:09.Thank you. The health minister told the Assembly he will try to retain
:16:09. > :16:12.some form of children's heart surgery in Belfast. Last week a
:16:12. > :16:15.report recommended that all paediatric cardiac surgery soon be
:16:15. > :16:20.centred in Dublin. The health minister said he is in discussions
:16:20. > :16:26.on the best way forward, but first he updated MLAs on the state of the
:16:26. > :16:36.accident and emergency unit at the Antrim Area Hospital. I visited the
:16:36. > :16:40.
:16:40. > :16:42.hospital to hear at first hand the concerns of the consultant. I am
:16:42. > :16:44.advised by the trust it is working with the emergency Department
:16:44. > :16:47.consultants to mitigate the potential risks to patients within
:16:47. > :16:49.that department. The trust has put in place a range of measures to
:16:49. > :16:53.improve performance at the Department. My department has
:16:54. > :17:00.invested �9 million in a new emergency department at the hospital
:17:01. > :17:06.which will cater for up to 90,000 attendances a year and a new unit is
:17:06. > :17:10.expected to be operational from June 2013. Will the Minister put more
:17:11. > :17:14.resources so that we have got more bed so we have a hospital that can
:17:14. > :17:24.function on the ground or otherwise it is time that we had someone else
:17:24. > :17:27.running this department, because at the moment it is going horribly
:17:27. > :17:29.wrong? Having inherited a mess from his colleague, we are actually doing
:17:29. > :17:35.the work that needs to be done. There are more nurses in the
:17:35. > :17:43.hospital now than there was under the minister when his party was in
:17:43. > :17:45.control of this hospital. I understand that they have huge
:17:45. > :17:48.problems in the hospital, they are inherited problems and we will get
:17:48. > :17:52.on top of them. There is a lot of good work going on in the hospital
:17:52. > :17:55.and I get letters from members of the public indicating that, in spite
:17:55. > :18:00.of the headlines, they have received excellent care and I want to commend
:18:00. > :18:04.the staff are working in the Purcell D under huge pressure. We have a
:18:04. > :18:14.particular problem in that department and we are looking at
:18:14. > :18:23.
:18:23. > :18:26.that. We are looking at it in a clear way. Does he inspect -- does
:18:26. > :18:28.he accept, that all those who campaigned against the closure of
:18:28. > :18:30.the accident and emergency at the city, and we have seen problems
:18:30. > :18:33.elsewhere? The Ulster Hospital has been having a lot of problems. The
:18:33. > :18:38.Royal picked up most of the work. Its figures have improved
:18:38. > :18:42.dramatically. There are issues in and around the populace in the
:18:42. > :18:47.Ulster Hospital and we know we have an older population and the
:18:47. > :18:52.consequence of that appears to be that there have been a lot of winter
:18:52. > :18:56.pressures. I have said that before I make my decision, I want to take the
:18:56. > :18:59.opportunity to hold discussions with our counterparts in the Republic of
:18:59. > :19:04.Ireland and explore the scope for flexibility in the location and the
:19:04. > :19:11.future delivery of the service without compromising any aspect of
:19:11. > :19:14.patient safety. My key priority is to ensure the delivery of a safe and
:19:14. > :19:18.sustainable service for these vulnerable children and I want to
:19:18. > :19:23.ensure that we have fully explored every possibility for addressing the
:19:23. > :19:26.concerns which have been raised by parents and bike cardiology
:19:26. > :19:32.consultants and I will now take time to consider the report and its
:19:32. > :19:36.recommendations in full and I will make my decision shortly. I will
:19:36. > :19:42.continue to work to see what best we can achieve, so there is more work
:19:42. > :19:46.to be done, more discussions to be had and I really welcome the fact
:19:46. > :19:49.that we have moved away from any suggestion that all of this carer
:19:49. > :19:56.should be provided somewhere in England, because I was wholly
:19:56. > :20:00.opposed to that idea and getting it to an all Ireland network in the
:20:00. > :20:05.first instance is a success and if we can achieve some surgery in
:20:05. > :20:10.Belfast, and I do not know if this is possible, that certainly would be
:20:10. > :20:14.something I would be positive about. The Health Minister. Taking a break
:20:14. > :20:18.from what happened in the chamber, there was important business taking
:20:18. > :20:23.place elsewhere on the parliamentary estate. At Stormont Castle, the
:20:23. > :20:26.first and pity first ministers met the Secretary of State and the
:20:26. > :20:33.attorney shtick aiming Gilmore. The meeting took place amid suggestions
:20:33. > :20:36.that the Westminster government will agree a proposal to improve
:20:36. > :20:40.community relations. The press Conference began with Mark Devenport
:20:40. > :20:44.asking to reserve the leers if the proposed economic package is still
:20:45. > :20:51.linked to the publication of the long-awaited shared future document.
:20:51. > :20:55.It would be great of an overall strategy was published. It is more
:20:55. > :21:03.important that programmes go forward. They are happening. As I
:21:03. > :21:09.have heard this morning, they have got even bigger plans which I am
:21:09. > :21:12.sure in due course they will want to share with the public. They are
:21:12. > :21:19.thinking in very ambitious ways about how to bridge long-standing
:21:19. > :21:24.sectarian divisions and I welcome the efforts they are making. It is
:21:24. > :21:30.right to say we have been working for a long time on these issues. It
:21:30. > :21:35.is important to us in terms of what we see as the two major difficulties
:21:35. > :21:40.that we face, one is dealing with the economy and one is the shared
:21:40. > :21:43.future agenda. Irrespective of what would be happening elsewhere, we
:21:43. > :21:48.would be reaching the agreements that we are reaching that the
:21:48. > :21:53.present time and we will be relaying those to the public. It is an added
:21:53. > :21:57.advantage to us if by doing that, it levers down some additional support
:21:57. > :22:00.from the United Kingdom government, but it would be irresponsible of
:22:00. > :22:04.us, as leaders of this administration, to say that we would
:22:04. > :22:08.only bring out shared future proposals if the government puts its
:22:08. > :22:18.hand in its pocket. We will be doing this anyway, they are ambitious
:22:18. > :22:25.proposals and we do not want to outline them yet, before we announce
:22:25. > :22:29.them publicly. We formed a working group and we are involved in a
:22:29. > :22:33.good-faith effort to try and get a comprehensive agreement in terms of
:22:34. > :22:42.how we move forward. Unfortunately, one or two other parties decided to
:22:42. > :22:44.detach themselves from that because they did not get own way. It is on
:22:44. > :22:49.the public record that these issues that were contentious during those
:22:49. > :22:53.discussions, which represented and minority, when you look at the good
:22:53. > :22:56.work that was done and the level of agreement which was vastly
:22:56. > :23:00.outweighing the disagreements on how we've moved forward, but those
:23:00. > :23:07.issues are there for everyone to see. It is the issue of parades and
:23:07. > :23:12.flags and the issue of how we learn from the past. Our attitude is that
:23:12. > :23:16.we should not allow those issues to hold us back. We should move forward
:23:16. > :23:21.decisively with the projects that will add to the already good work
:23:21. > :23:27.and huge sums of money that we are pouring into the issue of sharing
:23:27. > :23:33.and integrating our society. Martin McGuiness. Martina Purdy is with me
:23:33. > :23:36.again. The keeping that seemed to come out of this was a concession
:23:37. > :23:42.that an all encompassing shared future document seems to be off the
:23:42. > :23:46.table for the time being and instead certain elements will be introduced
:23:46. > :23:50.individually. The Secretary of State seems to be more relaxed about this.
:23:50. > :23:57.For some time, there have been strained relations between
:23:57. > :24:01.Hillsborough's Castle and Stormont Castle. It is about the lack of
:24:01. > :24:06.progress on community relations. In recent weeks that ends been reported
:24:06. > :24:09.that trees of the Lears would be linking progress on this strategy
:24:09. > :24:12.within economic package from London and it was cleared up that she is
:24:12. > :24:16.not looking for a great leap forward, she does not expect
:24:16. > :24:20.progress on all the issues because there are difficult issues around
:24:20. > :24:24.flags and parades but if they can get progress on community relations
:24:25. > :24:34.then there can be sent economic support from London. A lot of talk
:24:35. > :24:55.
:24:55. > :24:58.about the economy, there was talk about a possible investment
:24:58. > :25:01.Conference taking place here later in the year. The G8 summit is coming
:25:01. > :25:04.up and it is important that world leaders do not come here and leave
:25:04. > :25:06.and we do not get a huge amount of economic benefit. The plan is to
:25:06. > :25:08.have the Prime Minister encourage world leaders to bring end investors
:25:08. > :25:10.here in the autumn. We had an investment cough the -- Conference
:25:10. > :25:13.here in 2008. Because our economy was flatlining, anything could be
:25:13. > :25:15.seized upon as a welcome development. There is a lot of work
:25:15. > :25:17.going on in the background. The Justice Minister has told the
:25:17. > :25:20.Assembly that all communities need to work together to solve interface
:25:20. > :25:23.violence and bring down the peace walls. David Ford said a lot of work
:25:23. > :25:26.is being done to solve the problem but more is still needed.
:25:26. > :25:29.objective is the removal of all interface structures. We know that
:25:29. > :25:34.will take time, but we must work to bring about the conditions that will
:25:34. > :25:38.give people the confidence to support change. A key priority for
:25:38. > :25:43.my department is addressing the safety and security of residents
:25:43. > :25:47.living in these areas. My officials and the police are assessing how to
:25:48. > :25:50.reduce the fear of crime in these areas. There is more to do but there
:25:50. > :25:58.are many positives and I thank the communities and their partners for
:25:58. > :26:01.their work. Can I welcome the work that the Minister is doing with
:26:01. > :26:06.local communities to address interface structures and ask if he
:26:06. > :26:13.agrees with the analysis of the DUP Minister for Finance that if we give
:26:13. > :26:18.everyone a job, the interface structures may disappear? About my
:26:18. > :26:23.colleague for that question. I think he would know that my view is whilst
:26:23. > :26:26.we need to address economic issues and are issues are undoubtably
:26:26. > :26:32.through lack of jobs engaging in anti-social behaviour and crime,
:26:32. > :26:36.there is no doubt that even when the economy is booming, there have been
:26:36. > :26:39.problems in these areas and that is why there has been a concentration
:26:39. > :26:42.as part of a programme for government to reduce tensions in
:26:42. > :26:47.these areas, work with local communities and to see the kind of
:26:47. > :26:50.successes we have been able to report in recent years. There may be
:26:50. > :26:53.more so-called peace walls and there were at the time of the Good Friday
:26:54. > :27:03.Agreement, but at the moment they are coming down and opening up not
:27:04. > :27:09.
:27:09. > :27:11.been added to. Would he agree that sense of trying to impose a solution
:27:11. > :27:14.in these community's would be counter-productive? I thank you for
:27:14. > :27:17.that. I agree. There is no sense in which we are trying to impose on
:27:17. > :27:20.local communities. It is also the case that we are not intending to
:27:20. > :27:24.proceed at this pace of the slowest. We will facilitate and
:27:24. > :27:28.encourage and do all we can to build the conditions that enable those
:27:28. > :27:33.structures to be removed. Minister alluded to the fact that
:27:33. > :27:40.the community is at the centre of the discussions. Would he agree that
:27:40. > :27:43.central to the very substance of ensuring that peace breaks out and
:27:43. > :27:47.community start to relate to each other more directly in interfaces,
:27:47. > :27:51.that there has to be community confidence, but they will not come
:27:51. > :27:54.under attack when the fences and walls come down and that they must
:27:54. > :28:03.get back confidence in both communities before we can begin that
:28:03. > :28:06.process? I do not know that I agree entirely with that. We need to work
:28:06. > :28:10.to build confidence but to suggest that we need total confidence before
:28:10. > :28:15.we can do anything is at variance with what we have been doing. We
:28:15. > :28:19.have seen work on temporary opening of gates and barriers, work done to
:28:19. > :28:23.address with CCTV and white lights, the opportunities to enable
:28:23. > :28:28.movement. We cannot get everything right before we do things, we need