:00:08. > :00:14.The UK is on the brink of making the biggest political decision in a
:00:15. > :00:18.generation. Should Britain remained in all leave the European Union?
:00:19. > :00:23.Ahead of the vote I'm talking to leading campaigners on both sides of
:00:24. > :00:24.the debate. Tonight live in the studio, the Chancellor, George
:00:25. > :00:46.Osborne. Good evening. On Monday, Hilary Benn
:00:47. > :00:52.made the Labour case for Britain to stay in the European Union. Later
:00:53. > :00:56.this week and next I will be talking to leading campaigners on the Leave
:00:57. > :01:00.side. Tonight I'm joined by the Chancellor George Osborne, part of a
:01:01. > :01:03.Conservative government that has given us the referendum and is now
:01:04. > :01:09.campaigning hard for the UK to remain in the EU. Welcome to the
:01:10. > :01:15.programme. It's good to be here. You claim that it could cause armed
:01:16. > :01:17.conflict if we leave, putting a bomb under the economy, hurting
:01:18. > :01:22.pensioners and collapsing house prices. Why are you risking that
:01:23. > :01:27.with a referendum? It's never a risk in a democracy to ask the people and
:01:28. > :01:31.all my lifetime, this issue of Britain's membership of the European
:01:32. > :01:34.Union has hung over the economy and the security of this country and it
:01:35. > :01:38.is right that people decide and I think Britain can be one of the
:01:39. > :01:42.greatest success stories of the 21st-century. We have the talent and
:01:43. > :01:47.drive and connections around the world, but if we leave them we lose
:01:48. > :01:57.control of the economy, and if you lose control of your economy you
:01:58. > :01:59.lose control of everything and it's not a price worth paying. Before
:02:00. > :02:02.calling the referendum did you ever think that the consequences of
:02:03. > :02:05.losing would be so bad? I knew it would be a big decision and so did
:02:06. > :02:09.the Prime Minister but we put this in the manifesto upon which we were
:02:10. > :02:13.elected. People should be under no illusions, I doubt there will be a
:02:14. > :02:19.big decision that we will be asked to take as citizens of this country
:02:20. > :02:22.and all of us, you and me, we all have one vote, so let's use it.
:02:23. > :02:26.Despite what you say about what would happen if we left, only a few
:02:27. > :02:31.months ago the Prime Minister assured us we would be OK outside
:02:32. > :02:36.the European Union. This is what he told the CBI. Today I want to debunk
:02:37. > :02:40.an argument that sometimes is put around by those who say, stay in
:02:41. > :02:49.Europe come what may. Some people seem to say, that really Britain
:02:50. > :02:56.couldn't survive and couldn't do OK outside the European Union. I don't
:02:57. > :03:01.think that's true. So, last November we'd be OK if we left the European
:03:02. > :03:06.Union? Now it is plague and pestilence, Sodom and Gomorrah, what
:03:07. > :03:09.has changed? OK is not good enough, losing control of the economy is not
:03:10. > :03:14.good enough for Britain, I want Britain to be shaping the world and
:03:15. > :03:22.not being shaped by it. You are saying it would bomb the economy?
:03:23. > :03:27.You said we would be put through an extraordinary piece of self harm? A
:03:28. > :03:31.few months ago you said it would be OK? The Prime Minister said we could
:03:32. > :03:37.survive. He said we would be OK? OK is not good enough for one of the
:03:38. > :03:41.great success stories of the 21st-century, potentially. I don't
:03:42. > :03:45.want to be the Chancellor who has helped pull us out of the mess of
:03:46. > :03:51.six or seven years ago, climbing up the ladder on the snakes and ladders
:03:52. > :03:55.board and then hitting a big snake and going back down to the bottom.
:03:56. > :03:59.It is not abstract, it is about people's ability to provide for
:04:00. > :04:03.their family, that is on the ballot paper on June 23. Let's have a look
:04:04. > :04:07.at some of the more scary predictions if we leave. You claim
:04:08. > :04:12.house prices would plummet, why would they plummet when even the
:04:13. > :04:17.Treasury is only forecasting, and it may be wrong, very shallow recession
:04:18. > :04:21.if we left? Because the country is poor, people in the country have
:04:22. > :04:25.lower ink is done they would otherwise have. And as a result,
:04:26. > :04:31.their ability to afford homes is reduced so the value is less. --
:04:32. > :04:35.lower income. And as we heard from the Bank of England mortgage rates
:04:36. > :04:40.could be higher. Mortgages would also be constrained. We estimated in
:04:41. > :04:44.the Treasury, that house prices would be 10-18% lower than they
:04:45. > :04:49.would otherwise be, and you know what? Fitch, the ratings agency
:04:50. > :04:56.which is respected around the world said it could be 25%. There are
:04:57. > :05:00.various estimates. That is the ratings agency that said the toxic
:05:01. > :05:07.debt should be rated Triple-A. Why did you listen to that? Listen to
:05:08. > :05:10.all of the economists, the big international organisations and
:05:11. > :05:16.companies large and small, the trade union movement, the leaderships of
:05:17. > :05:19.the Conservatives, the Labour Party, the Greens, Scottish Nationalists,
:05:20. > :05:23.Ulster Unionists, everyone is saying that Britain will be poorer, the
:05:24. > :05:27.families of Britain will be poorer. You can talk about any numbers but
:05:28. > :05:32.they have all got in common one big fat miners in front of everyone, and
:05:33. > :05:39.that is the consequence for people watching the programme. -- the minus
:05:40. > :05:43.. Nobody wants a recession but the forecast is for a shallow recession
:05:44. > :05:51.if we leave and it is so shallow that it is you -- it is within the
:05:52. > :05:57.margin of error. It is so precise to say 18% but you don't really know
:05:58. > :06:00.that unless you are also Mystic Meg? Hold on, 18%, the Treasury
:06:01. > :06:05.forecasted that there would be a severe shock and that is not a
:06:06. > :06:08.shallow recession. If the financial market turbulence which we are
:06:09. > :06:12.likely to see in the hours and days after a vote to leave, is compounded
:06:13. > :06:17.by uncertainty over the coming years as we failed to find a suitable
:06:18. > :06:21.arrangement with our closest trading partners. This is the crucial point,
:06:22. > :06:25.unlike the very deep recession of seven or eight years ago, people
:06:26. > :06:28.would know and businesses would know and investors would know that the
:06:29. > :06:33.country is permanently poorer so the value of the assets of the country,
:06:34. > :06:38.houses and pensions and shares, they would all fall to accommodate for
:06:39. > :06:43.that. You mentioned mortgage payments. Again, in your scenario
:06:44. > :06:48.they say they could rise by over ?1000 on average? One figure was
:06:49. > :06:52.?1200. If the shock of the economy was as bad as you think, the Bank of
:06:53. > :06:56.England would move to ease credit and pump more money into the
:06:57. > :07:01.economy, why would mortgage payments rise so much? It's important for
:07:02. > :07:05.people to understand this. First of all, the Bank of England, not just
:07:06. > :07:10.mark Carney although he is completely independent and respected
:07:11. > :07:13.round the members of the committee, they are independent of me and the
:07:14. > :07:16.government, they say that you can't take for granted that the Bank of
:07:17. > :07:19.England would cut interest rates because they would be dealing with
:07:20. > :07:26.higher inflation as well so they would have a real challenge, if you
:07:27. > :07:29.try to boost the economy, can you control inflation? Second, the
:07:30. > :07:33.mortgage price that you pay or somebody watching this programme
:07:34. > :07:37.pays, when they go into a building society or bank, it is driven by the
:07:38. > :07:40.cost of credit in the economy and it becomes more expensive when the
:07:41. > :07:45.economy is poorer and people defaulting on mortgage payments. As
:07:46. > :07:50.expensive as ?1000? You don't know that. You have chosen the worst
:07:51. > :07:54.possible figures to try to scare people? That is not the case, the
:07:55. > :07:58.Treasury forecasts for these things are not at the extreme end, and we
:07:59. > :08:05.are saying that mortgage rates could rise between 70 and 130 points, 1%
:08:06. > :08:09.on the cost of mortgages, but for the average mortgage that is almost
:08:10. > :08:13.?1000 and it means a lot to people out there who are working hard
:08:14. > :08:17.today, getting home and watching this programme, that is all wiped
:08:18. > :08:22.out. That is the real cost if we lose control of the economy. People
:08:23. > :08:25.have lived through this in recent history, let's not go there again.
:08:26. > :08:32.You have been scaring pensioners, too. You claim, the Remain campaign
:08:33. > :08:38.claim that pensioners would be worse off, it is a tweet is designed to
:08:39. > :08:42.frighten older folks. There we see it, with the purse. State pensions
:08:43. > :08:48.are protected by your own triple lock. Whether we are in or out of
:08:49. > :08:53.the EU, pensions in real terms wouldn't fall? First of all, you
:08:54. > :08:57.keep saying that I'm attempting to scare the population, you have said
:08:58. > :09:01.it twice, frankly there is a lot to be scared about. If we leave the
:09:02. > :09:05.European Union we risk our economy and it is a risk to pensioners and
:09:06. > :09:11.homeowners and people in work. The state pension... Because we had a
:09:12. > :09:17.successful and strong and growing economy which we do not want to put
:09:18. > :09:21.at risk, it rises either by the rate of inflation or earnings or buy two
:09:22. > :09:23.and a half percent but if the rate of inflation is higher and people
:09:24. > :09:28.are forecasting that it could be three or 4%, the rate of inflation,
:09:29. > :09:33.instead of what it is today, it eats away at the real value of peoples
:09:34. > :09:39.pensions. Pensioners will have less to spend. Their money won't go as
:09:40. > :09:43.far. Pensions are rising by the rate of inflation if that is the highest
:09:44. > :09:49.of the three? The real increase is therefore reduced. This matters. We
:09:50. > :09:54.are talking about numbers, this is the ability of a pensioner to go out
:09:55. > :09:58.there and, you know, provide for themselves and support themselves
:09:59. > :10:03.and their ability of their pension goes less far when there is higher
:10:04. > :10:08.inflation. In or out, the state pension would rise at least in line
:10:09. > :10:13.with inflation, that is your luck? Showing that empty purse, NT! You
:10:14. > :10:17.should be ashamed of that, shouldn't you? Absolutely not. It is vital
:10:18. > :10:24.that people realise what's at stake here. -- empty! What is at stake is
:10:25. > :10:28.the prosperity of the British economy, recession, people's ability
:10:29. > :10:33.to provide for their families would be hit and with not even talked
:10:34. > :10:39.about unemployment. Andrew, this all feels very abstract, I have brought
:10:40. > :10:42.along... As an example I have brought along this, I went to a
:10:43. > :10:46.factory in Keighley in West Yorkshire, it is part of an Airbus
:10:47. > :10:50.plane which is made by a real person on a real production line and he
:10:51. > :10:54.worries about his job and his company worries about their ability
:10:55. > :11:01.to access the single market. This is not abstract. We make the wings for
:11:02. > :11:09.Airbus? We don't know whether we are going to continue to be able to sell
:11:10. > :11:15.this. Where would Airbus go to buy the wings, in or out? The Chief
:11:16. > :11:19.Executive of Airbus has themselves said it would threaten their
:11:20. > :11:23.investment in the UK. The point about this, this is at an Airbus
:11:24. > :11:28.factory, a small manufacturing business in West Yorkshire. This is
:11:29. > :11:32.another scare story. It's not, this is the reality of the single market.
:11:33. > :11:38.Airbus would still come to Britain to buy wings and Rolls-Royce engines
:11:39. > :11:42.whether or not we are in the EU. That is not what the Chief Executive
:11:43. > :11:48.says. Where would they go? They have factories in Toulouse... They don't
:11:49. > :11:52.make wings in Germany? The point of Airbus is that it's an integrated
:11:53. > :11:57.supply chain, we import from Germany and sell to France and their art
:11:58. > :12:01.tariffs on those exports, if there were, why would business happen in
:12:02. > :12:06.the UK? We would be out of the single market. Written would be
:12:07. > :12:10.quitting the single market, quitting prosperity and this source of jobs.
:12:11. > :12:18.The people who pay the price is not you or me but the person working on
:12:19. > :12:22.the assembly line in Keighley. You prepared a longer term report as
:12:23. > :12:29.well about the EU. You were keen to promote that by 2030 households
:12:30. > :12:34.would be ?4300 worse off. Here is the poster. You even stood in front
:12:35. > :12:40.of the poster there. The Treasury report does not say families would
:12:41. > :12:46.be ?4300 worse off, does it? It is a misleading figure? That's not the
:12:47. > :12:51.case. That is how much per household our GDP would shrink and if you look
:12:52. > :12:58.at... It's not shrinking. In or out, the report showed substantial growth
:12:59. > :13:02.in the economy through 2030. Not shrinking. The question on the 23rd
:13:03. > :13:07.of June is what does the world look like whether we are in the European
:13:08. > :13:12.Union all we quit it. Families would be ?4300 a year worse off. As a
:13:13. > :13:18.proportion of the GDP. They wouldn't. It doesn't mention their
:13:19. > :13:22.income. The wealth of the nation which provides public services they
:13:23. > :13:30.depend upon... Leave the picture up because people need to know. People
:13:31. > :13:35.need to know... I will put what the Treasury Select Committee said about
:13:36. > :13:40.your ?4300 under that picture. This is not what the main Treasury
:13:41. > :13:43.analysis found will stop the average income impact would be considerably
:13:44. > :13:53.smaller than this number. -- analysis found. Neither side should
:13:54. > :13:58.repeat this mistaken assertion. To persist with this claim would be to
:13:59. > :14:02.misrepresent the Treasury's own work. Why are you misrepresenting
:14:03. > :14:06.your own department? It actually says that the Treasury accurately
:14:07. > :14:11.presented numbers and it is perfectly legitimate to talk about
:14:12. > :14:15.the impact on households as a proportion of GDP. It says, do not
:14:16. > :14:19.repeat it, it would misrepresent your own figures. You are
:14:20. > :14:29.selectively quoting from the report. You are! That is what they say. It
:14:30. > :14:33.says that the ?4300 figure is bogus. You are selectively quoting from the
:14:34. > :14:37.report and of course I read it and it says that the Treasury accurately
:14:38. > :14:39.presented figures and it is absolutely right that people
:14:40. > :14:44.understand it is not just their incomes but the value of the public
:14:45. > :14:49.services they receive. And, by the way, this is exactly the sort of
:14:50. > :14:53.number we have had from a whole host of international organisations. Just
:14:54. > :15:00.this week you have had... No other organisation uses that figure? They
:15:01. > :15:04.do, the OECD. Well, it hasn't. It uses GDP per household and comes up
:15:05. > :15:09.with a similar number. It is not similar. With all of these things it
:15:10. > :15:12.is like running a marathon, you don't know exactly how many minutes
:15:13. > :15:16.it's going to take but if you shoot yourself in the foot it is going to
:15:17. > :15:20.take a lot longer. The forecast reveals that your promise, your
:15:21. > :15:24.government's promise to reduce net migration to 100,000 a year, that is
:15:25. > :15:28.over and you're not even trying to do that now?
:15:29. > :15:36.It is an ambition we set out in the manifesto. Your forecast, they
:15:37. > :15:40.assume net immigration of another three million over the next 14
:15:41. > :15:45.years. That's an average of 214,000 a year, twice the promise you made
:15:46. > :15:50.way back in 2010 and repeated in the 2015 manifesto. First of all, what
:15:51. > :15:54.those numbers show, what the office for national statistics show and
:15:55. > :16:00.independent of Government, not taking into account the most recent
:16:01. > :16:04.controls we have had on non-EU immigration or restrictions which we
:16:05. > :16:10.will no doubt talk about. It shows net immigration falling from 320,000
:16:11. > :16:14.this year to 180,000 over five years... And stays there for the
:16:15. > :16:19.next decade? I think the crucial thing to managing migration is not
:16:20. > :16:25.to lose control of your economy and make sure you are restricting non-EU
:16:26. > :16:28.migration. Second, to make sure you don't have the abuse of the free
:16:29. > :16:32.movement of people and we have that. Crucially the third point, can I
:16:33. > :16:36.make this third point, what you have to make sure is that we have a
:16:37. > :16:39.growing British economy and a growing European economy and the
:16:40. > :16:43.good news is that the European economy is growing now. We have had
:16:44. > :16:47.an exceptional two or three years where Britain's been doing well and
:16:48. > :16:51.Europe has not been doing as well. Actually, look at the most recent
:16:52. > :16:58.GDP data and the European... I am more concerned about your promise.
:16:59. > :17:02.You promised in 2010 to cut net migration to 100,000 by 2030. 20
:17:03. > :17:05.years later you are still assuming it would be twice that amount. A
:17:06. > :17:09.number of people the size of the population of Newcastle will be
:17:10. > :17:15.coming in. It's a broken promise, it's over. It's an ambition we
:17:16. > :17:19.intend... It's an ambition now, it was a promise. In the manifesto that
:17:20. > :17:24.the country voted on last year, we set it out as an ambition, I believe
:17:25. > :17:28.it's an ambition we will achieve. If we manage migration by dealing with
:17:29. > :17:32.the non-European migration. By dealing with the abuse of free
:17:33. > :17:36.movement and people coming here and taking out before they put in. And
:17:37. > :17:38.as both economies grow, the European economy and the British economy, you
:17:39. > :17:42.don't have this exceptional situation you have had for the last
:17:43. > :17:46.couple of years where you have had very weak economies on the continent
:17:47. > :17:49.of Europe. Thankfully they're now growing, that's by the way a good
:17:50. > :17:54.thing for Britain because we export to these economies and they're
:17:55. > :17:58.crucial. You still expect almost 200,000 by 2030. There was a time
:17:59. > :18:02.when David Cameron said he would get a grip on immigration by ending free
:18:03. > :18:08.movement from the EU. This is what he told the Tory conference in 2014.
:18:09. > :18:11.It will be very at the heart of my renegotiation strategy for Europe.
:18:12. > :18:18.Britain, I know you want this sorted. So I will go to Brussels, I
:18:19. > :18:22.will not take no for an answer. When it comes to free movement I will get
:18:23. > :18:27.what Britain needs. I will not take no for an answer. In a sense he
:18:28. > :18:32.didn't. In the end he didn't even ask for any serious limits on free
:18:33. > :18:37.movements, he bottled it. The Prime Minister got a good deal for
:18:38. > :18:40.Britain, an excellent deal... By the way no previous Prime Minister has
:18:41. > :18:45.got, that you cannot come to this country and get out before you put
:18:46. > :18:49.in. That is a key change that addresses, actually I think, the big
:18:50. > :18:55.public concern that people have about free movement. Can we agree he
:18:56. > :18:58.didn't... ? Yes, he did, a fundamental change that you can't
:18:59. > :19:02.come here and claim welfare. You say that because he got nothing on free
:19:03. > :19:06.movement of substance the fallback was to say that EU citizens couldn't
:19:07. > :19:10.just come here looking for work. They had to have a job. That's what
:19:11. > :19:14.he promised. He bottled that too. That's not the case. Well, that is
:19:15. > :19:18.the case. You can come here without a job. You have to look for a job.
:19:19. > :19:21.If you don't have a job within six months, by the way, you don't get
:19:22. > :19:24.unemployment or housing benefit or the like. You do get unemployment
:19:25. > :19:28.benefit. You get it after three months. You don't get it when you
:19:29. > :19:33.arrive. You get it after three months. If you don't get a job after
:19:34. > :19:37.six months you have to go. You do get it for part of the time. You
:19:38. > :19:41.said you don't get unemployment benefit. It's true. You get it after
:19:42. > :19:45.three months. When you arrive you used to get it, you don't any more.
:19:46. > :19:49.Can I make a broader point... He did say that you wouldn't be able to
:19:50. > :19:54.come here unless you had a job and that's not true. You can. 77,000
:19:55. > :19:58.people last year came as jobseeker's from the EU. They didn't have a job.
:19:59. > :20:05.Andrew, if you don't have a job, you have to go. Well, you say that. The
:20:06. > :20:09.next fallback was if EU jobseeker's couldn't find a job they would have
:20:10. > :20:13.to leave. This is what he said on ITV last night. He said, one of my
:20:14. > :20:17.key demands which I got if you come here you don't get unemployment
:20:18. > :20:21.benefit, we know that's not actually true, and if you haven't a job after
:20:22. > :20:25.six months you have to leave. How many failed EU jobseeker's have been
:20:26. > :20:28.required to leave after six months? Well, 6,000 people so far have been
:20:29. > :20:33.removed for abuse of the freedom of movement. That's not all
:20:34. > :20:38.jobseeker's? It's people who are abusing the free movement of people.
:20:39. > :20:42.I asked how many... 6,000 How many EU jobseeker's have been required to
:20:43. > :20:47.leave after six months? 6,000. They're not all - these are many
:20:48. > :20:51.people There are people specifically abusing free movement. I am not
:20:52. > :20:54.talking... I am not talking about people with criminal records turned
:20:55. > :20:56.away at the borders because we have borders controls as anyone who goes
:20:57. > :21:01.through passport control knows full well. I am talking about people who
:21:02. > :21:05.are abusing free movement of people, they now get removed. The question
:21:06. > :21:09.on the ballot paper... Are you saying all 6,000 were jobseeker's
:21:10. > :21:14.who didn't have a job at the end of six months? It includes not having a
:21:15. > :21:18.job. It include as soon as so what part of the 6,000 you claim were
:21:19. > :21:22.actual jobseeker's? They were all jobseeker's who were here to claim
:21:23. > :21:25.work and they've had to leave. Look, Andrew, can I make a bigger point
:21:26. > :21:30.here? This is a big point. You promised it. A bigger point still,
:21:31. > :21:35.which is that, first of all, what is this referendum about, whether we
:21:36. > :21:39.are in the EU or not. I do not believe there is some fantasy world
:21:40. > :21:41.that if we leave the EU we can somehow have greater control or
:21:42. > :21:44.management of our immigration. I think we would end up signing up to
:21:45. > :21:48.free movement of people but having no say over how it operated. We
:21:49. > :21:52.would lose the co-operation of some of our closest allies on key things
:21:53. > :21:55.like border control. It would be much more difficult for example, in
:21:56. > :22:00.Northern Ireland, to maintain border control there. You also have a
:22:01. > :22:04.situation if we leave the European Union that we would be there begging
:22:05. > :22:09.to be back into the single market, prepared to pay almost any price to
:22:10. > :22:13.support the businesses that... Before this... I do not believe this
:22:14. > :22:19.claim. It's interesting when pressed the Leave campaigners have basically
:22:20. > :22:23.admitted their policy would see more immigration from outside the EU.
:22:24. > :22:27.People should be clear, they might have concerns about immigration, but
:22:28. > :22:30.that is not on the ballot paper. Our membership of the European Union and
:22:31. > :22:34.all the prosperity and our role in the world, that's on the paper. If
:22:35. > :22:37.you wanted to talk about the Leave campaign you should have agreed to
:22:38. > :22:42.debate them. I am here to talk about the case for Remain and test it. If
:22:43. > :22:46.all this... .S let's have a debate. I was just in parliament yesterday
:22:47. > :22:50.debating the campaign. If this is good for the economy, why do you
:22:51. > :22:53.want to cut it? It's important it's managed. It's important people come
:22:54. > :22:58.here and contribute to our economy. We have vacancies in our economy. I
:22:59. > :23:01.want to make sure British people above all have the skills and the
:23:02. > :23:04.ability to get those jobs. We are in a great situation in our country
:23:05. > :23:08.where there are actually more vacancies than there are people
:23:09. > :23:12.claiming jobseeker's allowance. I want to go on building that strong
:23:13. > :23:16.economy. I don't want to lose control of the economy. I want to
:23:17. > :23:19.come on to this migrants thing as well. It could be even higher if
:23:20. > :23:27.Turkey was to join the EU. David Cameron has been a big supporter of
:23:28. > :23:30.Turkey joining the EU. He went to Ankara not long after he became
:23:31. > :23:36.Prime Minister. This is what he had to say. When I think about what
:23:37. > :23:41.Turkey has done to defend Europe as a NATO ally and what it is doing
:23:42. > :23:45.today in Afghanistan alongside our European allies, it makes me angry
:23:46. > :23:51.that your progress towards EU membership can be frustrated in the
:23:52. > :23:57.way that it has been. My view is clear, I believe it's joust wrong to
:23:58. > :24:02.say that Turkey can guard the camp but not be allowed to sit in the
:24:03. > :24:06.tent. So I will remain your strongest possible advocate for EU
:24:07. > :24:11.membership and for greater influence at the top table of European
:24:12. > :24:15.diplomacy. That was six years ago. Now the Prime Minister says that
:24:16. > :24:19.Turkey may not join for almost 1,000 years, he says. Who is he
:24:20. > :24:25.misleading, misleading the Turkish people in 2010 or is he misleading
:24:26. > :24:29.the British people in 2016? I was 16 years old when Turkey first applied
:24:30. > :24:32.to join the European Union. I am now 45. I don't think it's going to
:24:33. > :24:36.happen in my lifetime because, sadly, actually over recent years,
:24:37. > :24:39.Turkey has gone backwards. There concerns about democracy and human
:24:40. > :24:42.rights there. These are all conditions you need to meet before
:24:43. > :24:49.you even are considered for membership of the European Union.
:24:50. > :24:52.Now Turkey is a key ally, they're a member of NATO, an organisation we
:24:53. > :24:58.all talk up on all sides of the campaign. Is it going to be a member
:24:59. > :25:03.of the EU, no, it's not. If that's true, why if the prospect is so far
:25:04. > :25:08.away in even your lifetime, you say, why does the Prime Minister support
:25:09. > :25:11.it at an agreement in March to reenergise Turkey's succession
:25:12. > :25:14.progress and indeed we have committed a billion of taxpayers'
:25:15. > :25:18.money to speed the Turkish process up. Why would you do that if you
:25:19. > :25:22.don't believe it? Everyone can see from their television that Turkey is
:25:23. > :25:28.vital to our security as a continent. Borders on Syria, it's
:25:29. > :25:31.absolutely key member of NATO. You are speeding up the accession
:25:32. > :25:35.process? We want it to reform and its economy to improve but it's not
:25:36. > :25:39.going to be a member of the European Union. Is it still the... This
:25:40. > :25:44.referendum is for a long time, this referendum could be for longer than
:25:45. > :25:47.your life. Is it the case, is it still British Government policy that
:25:48. > :25:52.Turkey should become a member of the EU? The British Government policy is
:25:53. > :25:56.it should not join the European Union today. Today? It's a million
:25:57. > :26:01.miles away from joining. It's a million miles away. Andrew...
:26:02. > :26:08.Listen... You have asked me about this. What What About Carlo
:26:09. > :26:16.What about being the strongest possibled a sroe skate? Stories
:26:17. > :26:20.about bodies of migrants being washed up or about women being raped
:26:21. > :26:24.by migrants. Let's be clear this is a battle for the soul of our
:26:25. > :26:27.country. I do not want Nigel Farage's vision of Britain. It's
:26:28. > :26:32.mean, it's divisive, it's not who we are as a country. Britain is a great
:26:33. > :26:35.country that is open and inclusive and it's a country that shapes the
:26:36. > :26:39.world, not is shaped by the world. That is what we are fighting for. I
:26:40. > :26:45.understand that. Fighting for the soul of this country. We are also
:26:46. > :26:47.fight... For truth. Nigel Farage and his vision of Britain has taken over
:26:48. > :26:52.the Leave campaign. We are fighting against that. I want the mainstream
:26:53. > :26:56.of the majority of this country to stand up and say we do not want
:26:57. > :27:01.Nigel Farage's vision. One more question. A lot of people will think
:27:02. > :27:04.you have exaggerated claims about the economic impact of Brexit. You
:27:05. > :27:07.promised restrictions on immigration, you haven't delivered,
:27:08. > :27:10.that's clear. The Prime Minister's told Turkey he wants it to become an
:27:11. > :27:16.EU member, he is passionate for the case and then told the British
:27:17. > :27:19.people the opposite. Why exactly should the British people trust you
:27:20. > :27:24.when you say vote to remain? Because it's very simple. If we vote to
:27:25. > :27:28.remain Britain will be stronger, better off, safer as a country. But
:27:29. > :27:32.if we leave, then we will lose control of our economy, that means
:27:33. > :27:35.losing control of everything. I am a father of two children. I don't want
:27:36. > :27:39.to look around to them in 20 years' time and say, you know, Britain used
:27:40. > :27:43.to be a great success, used to be connected to the world. But we took
:27:44. > :27:47.a decision and retreated from this world. That used to be us. I don't
:27:48. > :27:52.want to say that to my children. I want Britain to be the great success
:27:53. > :27:56.story of the 21st century. Chancellor, thank you. 'S all for
:27:57. > :28:03.tonight. I will be back on Friday for the third of our live interviews
:28:04. > :28:07.and my guest will be Ukip leader Nigel Farage and the following
:28:08. > :28:11.Friday Leave campaigner and former Tory Cabinet Minister Iain Duncan
:28:12. > :28:13.Smith will be here. I hope you can join me for both.
:28:14. > :28:49.Until then, bye. Hello, I'm Tina Daheley
:28:50. > :28:51.with your 90 second update. The man who bought BHS for a pound
:28:52. > :28:54.has been branded a liar Dominic Chappell defended his rescue
:28:55. > :28:58.plan for the collapsed retail chain There's more time to register
:28:59. > :29:04.to vote in the EU referendum. Last night the government's website
:29:05. > :29:07.crashed and thousands