05/06/2017

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:00:19. > :00:21.Hello and welcome to The Election Wrap, your our guide

:00:22. > :00:24.to all the campaign news of the day and inevitably security,

:00:25. > :00:30.When you've been Home Secretary for a record breaking six

:00:31. > :00:33.years you leave a paper trail of policies.

:00:34. > :00:35.Well Theresa May has had to defend her record

:00:36. > :00:37.on keeping us all safe, after Jeremy Corbyn backed

:00:38. > :00:45.Tim Farron and Nicola Sturgeon will be grilled this evening

:00:46. > :00:47.by a Question Time audience in Scotland, and security,

:00:48. > :00:51.As the Tories set their sights on making substantial gains

:00:52. > :00:54.across the Midlands, we look at two key battle grounds -

:00:55. > :01:02.in Cheltenham and Birmingham Edgbaston.

:01:03. > :01:05.From a landslide Tory majority to a hung parliament,

:01:06. > :01:07.polls seem to be making all sorts of contradictory calls.

:01:08. > :01:11.But do you think they are science or do you think they are fiction?

:01:12. > :01:19.And mulling all this over - my guests the Guardian

:01:20. > :01:28.columnist Owen Jones, and Katy Balls of the Spectator.

:01:29. > :01:32.Let's bring you up to date with the latest from the campaign

:01:33. > :01:34.trail, and understandably, the focus has been on preventing

:01:35. > :01:36.future terrorist attacks, after the grim events

:01:37. > :01:41.Jeremy Corbyn's been campaigning in the north-east,

:01:42. > :01:43.saying he'd back calls for the Prime Minister

:01:44. > :01:48.That she was responsible as Home Secretary,

:01:49. > :01:51.But he clarified his comments in an interview

:01:52. > :01:57.What I'm saying is there is an election on now, there's a choice

:01:58. > :02:04.I'm articulating what is a deep anger amongst those people

:02:05. > :02:07.that have seen 20,000 police officers lose their jobs and

:02:08. > :02:10.firefighters lose their jobs, seeing ambulance crews unable to cope with

:02:11. > :02:14.I think she as Home Secretary needs to

:02:15. > :02:17.think about what she did when she was Home Secretary.

:02:18. > :02:22.Let's be very clear, there is an election on,

:02:23. > :02:27.everybody has a choice and a lot of people

:02:28. > :02:29.are very angry and a lot of

:02:30. > :02:32.people would have wanted her to resign were she still the Home

:02:33. > :02:36.The choice is going to be made on Thursday by the people of

:02:37. > :02:39.But Theresa May, in Edinburgh with the Scottish Conservative

:02:40. > :02:41.leader Ruth Davidson, defended her record,

:02:42. > :02:44.We have been protecting counterterrorism police, we've

:02:45. > :02:49.provided funding for an uplift in armed policing.

:02:50. > :02:51.We have, from 2015, been protecting police budgets, like

:02:52. > :02:54.The Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn's front bench, said police

:02:55. > :02:58.We said, no, we're going to protect those budgets.

:02:59. > :03:01.But it's also about the powers that you give to the police.

:03:02. > :03:04.And I have been responsible through a number of pieces of

:03:05. > :03:07.legislation that I have introduced, to give extra powers to the police

:03:08. > :03:10.Jeremy Corbyn has boasted that he is opposed every piece

:03:11. > :03:18.of anti-terror legislation since he came into Parliament.

:03:19. > :03:21.But it wasn't just Labour Mrs May had to fend off.

:03:22. > :03:25.The Lib Dem leader Tim Farron, took time off preparing

:03:26. > :03:27.breakfast in a cafe, to take aim at the PM,

:03:28. > :03:36.This is a point that we look at how we keep our country and our people

:03:37. > :03:41.safe and as things stand we have a Prime Minister who told off the

:03:42. > :03:45.police for saying that they were crying wolf, and that was at the

:03:46. > :03:50.time when she was responsible for making cuts in our police numbers,

:03:51. > :03:54.in every part of our country, and today she stands and says enough is

:03:55. > :03:58.enough. Well, enough was enough the first time this happened. This is

:03:59. > :04:01.the moment we stand behind our police and security services, the

:04:02. > :04:05.one thing we know will make us safer is investing in our police.

:04:06. > :04:12.And Scotland's First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, has weighed in,

:04:13. > :04:17.I think Theresa May has to outline what she thinks it means. Nobody can

:04:18. > :04:21.escape the fact that Theresa May has been Home Secretary for the past

:04:22. > :04:24.number of years before she was Prime Minister. She presided over

:04:25. > :04:29.significant cuts in policing in England, and there is lots of

:04:30. > :04:33.concern about that. Security is one of the most important priorities for

:04:34. > :04:37.any government. Scotland are not immune from these threats. We have

:04:38. > :04:40.invested to maintain police numbers and we have seen in recent times and

:04:41. > :04:42.increase in the numbers of trained armed police officers we have got.

:04:43. > :04:45.While the Ukip leader, Paul Nuttall, says the issue of police numbers,

:04:46. > :04:57.I think she has got it wrong over the police cuts and also she has got

:04:58. > :05:01.it wrong over border guard cuts and cuts to the prison Service. I'm not

:05:02. > :05:04.sure these comments have much legitimacy coming from somebody like

:05:05. > :05:08.Jeremy Corbyn, somebody who has called Hamas and Hezbollah his

:05:09. > :05:10.friends, to attack Theresa May on the issue of terrorism is a weak

:05:11. > :05:17.point for Jeremy Corbyn. Katie and Owen are with us. It has

:05:18. > :05:22.been a fascinating debate today on this whole security issue after the

:05:23. > :05:26.terrible events of the weekend because we have two leaders who have

:05:27. > :05:33.taken two different aspects of the debate, policing numbers, and the

:05:34. > :05:37.powers of the police. Both leaders are running away from their past and

:05:38. > :05:42.their comments and their policies in relation to those two issues. I

:05:43. > :05:45.don't think the Conservatives ever imagined they would be on the

:05:46. > :05:49.defence over security when the campaign started. By focusing on

:05:50. > :05:53.police numbers and police cuts Labour have put Theresa May on the

:05:54. > :05:58.back foot today and she is really having to explain why she made those

:05:59. > :06:03.decisions and what the link might be between police numbers and the

:06:04. > :06:07.recent attacks we have had. The powers of the police and comments

:06:08. > :06:14.Jeremy Corbyn has made in the past,... What do you mean by those

:06:15. > :06:18.comments? Comments saying his proud of the fact he has voted down

:06:19. > :06:22.anti-terror legislation. Theresa May voted against the anti-terror

:06:23. > :06:25.legislation as well. What people can conclude is that Theresa May has

:06:26. > :06:29.shown throughout this campaign she is a threat to national security and

:06:30. > :06:32.the two reasons for that either she has been Home Secretary for six of

:06:33. > :06:37.the last seven years in this country and in that period 20,000 police

:06:38. > :06:42.officers have lost their jobs. There has been a net reduction in overall

:06:43. > :06:50.of police numbers. She accused the police in 2015, not that long ago,

:06:51. > :06:53.of crying wolf and of scaremongering because of what they said would be

:06:54. > :06:56.the impact of those police cuts. That is one aspect which she has to

:06:57. > :06:59.be held to account for. The other is her alliance, she has tried to be

:07:00. > :07:05.ever closer to a Saudi dictatorship which is at the epicentre of

:07:06. > :07:08.which is a threat to national which is a threat to national

:07:09. > :07:10.security and the security of every single person watching this

:07:11. > :07:16.programme. I asked about Jeremy Corbyn.

:07:17. > :07:20.Can I be honest here, we have the entire British press at the moment

:07:21. > :07:26.ranged against the opposition leader. I am trying to redress the

:07:27. > :07:31.balance. Interns are Jeremy Corbyn, his record is twofold. One is

:07:32. > :07:33.opposing the cuts to the police numbers, which the Home Secretary

:07:34. > :07:37.and Prime Minister Theresa May is directly responsible for. She is

:07:38. > :07:41.responsible for reducing police numbers, Jeremy Corbyn opposed those

:07:42. > :07:44.cuts. The second point on the Saudi dictatorship which chops the heads

:07:45. > :07:48.off people for being gay, which chops the heads of people for being

:07:49. > :07:52.dissidents and treats women in the most abominable way possible and is

:07:53. > :07:55.exporting an ideology. In this country as well as other countries,

:07:56. > :08:02.which is a threat to national security. Owen! I want to hear

:08:03. > :08:07.Katie. Thank you very much. Say something. On police numbers there

:08:08. > :08:11.are two things, there is a question of do we have enough police on the

:08:12. > :08:14.streets of the UK? And the question is would more police have stopped

:08:15. > :08:18.the recent terror attacks? If you look at the one on Saturday it was

:08:19. > :08:21.within eight minutes the armed police were there since the first

:08:22. > :08:27.call. I don't know if more police would have me back quicker. But the

:08:28. > :08:36.bottom line for voters is that police numbers fell after 2010. So

:08:37. > :08:38.that is a difficult conundrum, isn't it? Definitely but I think what the

:08:39. > :08:41.Conservatives need to do and what they should be doing is talk about

:08:42. > :08:45.whether that is an issue in itself and also does that issue relate to

:08:46. > :08:50.these terror attacks? We had Lord Ki Lyle who has been very involved in

:08:51. > :08:52.terror legislation today who said it is a separate conversation than

:08:53. > :08:56.looking at whether it could have stopped the terror attacks. We had

:08:57. > :08:59.the army on our streets and the reason we have the army on our

:09:00. > :09:02.streets is because the police didn't have the resources to police the

:09:03. > :09:07.streets of this country in the aftermath of that horrendous bombing

:09:08. > :09:10.in Manchester. The truth is the police are asking, and have asked

:09:11. > :09:13.over and over again for more resources. The Metropolitan Police

:09:14. > :09:17.Commissioner Cressida Dick has to be careful about not intervening in a

:09:18. > :09:20.general election, went on radio this morning said they need more

:09:21. > :09:24.resources. Resources have been slashed and cut by Theresa May, Home

:09:25. > :09:28.Secretary and Prime Minister of this country, and it's not just police we

:09:29. > :09:32.are talking about, we are talking about armed police. Armed police

:09:33. > :09:37.have been reduced by about 1000 in the last few years. This morning a

:09:38. > :09:40.government minister went through a series of excruciating interviews

:09:41. > :09:45.because she refused to accept, or even answer the fact, that the last

:09:46. > :09:48.few years those armed police numbers have been slashed. The reality is as

:09:49. > :09:52.I have said people have to ask themselves a question. If the Prime

:09:53. > :09:57.Minister has systematically slashed police numbers and armed police

:09:58. > :10:03.numbers, and is kowtowing to a Saudi dictatorship which is exporting

:10:04. > :10:07.country and other countries, is she country and other countries, is she

:10:08. > :10:11.a threat herself to national security? The reason I ask is

:10:12. > :10:11.because today Steve Hilton, the former head of strategy for David

:10:12. > :10:13.Cameron, a conservative adviser, Cameron, a conservative adviser,

:10:14. > :10:21.demanded her resignation because of that. He is not a lefty. Steve

:10:22. > :10:24.Hilton is not... It's not that dramatic, is made a habit of going

:10:25. > :10:29.for his former colleagues, we saw him turn on David Cameron in the

:10:30. > :10:30.campaign. OK, we will rejoin you in a couple of minutes but first.

:10:31. > :10:33.One of the Conservatives' key election targets is in the Midlands.

:10:34. > :10:35.20 years ago Gisela Stuart won the Birmingham Edgbaston

:10:36. > :10:37.constituency for Labour, ending a century of Tory success.

:10:38. > :10:40.But now the prominent Leave campaigner is standing down,

:10:41. > :10:43.and the Conservatives are confident they can win it back,

:10:44. > :10:45.with a candidate who's the great-great granddaughter of one

:10:46. > :10:55.Kathryn Stanczyszyn, assesses her chances.

:10:56. > :11:03.When Edgbaston turned red in 1997 it hailed a new dawn for a new Labour.

:11:04. > :11:08.Gisela Stuart has held the seat for 20 years in the last two elections

:11:09. > :11:13.bucking the national trend but as she steps down, can Labour hang onto

:11:14. > :11:17.it? Due to her campaigning you have the hospital, investment in new

:11:18. > :11:23.Street station in the way it was. No matter what that's a Labour MP with

:11:24. > :11:27.Labour values, independent thinking for this constituency and that is

:11:28. > :11:30.what is required for this constituency, somebody independent,

:11:31. > :11:36.that's what they will get with me. Edgbaston was home to one of

:11:37. > :11:39.Birmingham's famous sons, a businessman and politician, and now

:11:40. > :11:43.his great, great granddaughter is determined to be one too. The polls

:11:44. > :11:46.have been buried in terms of what they think the chances are. The

:11:47. > :11:49.response I'm getting on the doorstep is positive, I'm meeting Labour

:11:50. > :11:52.voters who cannot stomach the idea of Jeremy Corbyn being Prime

:11:53. > :11:56.Minister of this country and they say they are prepared to switch.

:11:57. > :11:59.Edgbaston is the kind of seat people pay close attention to, particularly

:12:00. > :12:04.this time around when a popular MP is retiring. So what would it take

:12:05. > :12:13.for the Conservatives to turn this seat blue? In 2015 Gisela Stuart got

:12:14. > :12:16.18,500 votes compared to the Conservatives' 15,500, she doubled

:12:17. > :12:22.her majority but it still narrowed, just under 3000 in it. Edgbaston's

:12:23. > :12:27.four wards are diverse, Harborne and Edgbaston are fairly affluent, by

:12:28. > :12:32.the Green and Quinton less so, big employers include the hospital and

:12:33. > :12:37.university. Ukip are not standing but where the 10% of the vote goes

:12:38. > :12:40.will be crucial. History is likely to repeat itself, though, in the

:12:41. > :12:44.proud tradition of Edgbaston returning a woman, dating back to

:12:45. > :12:49.Edith Pitt and Gill might. It will be a defining victory, but for who?

:12:50. > :12:51.Kathryn Stanczyszyn, Midlands Today, Edgbaston.

:12:52. > :12:55.There are three other candidates standing in Birmingham Edgbaston,

:12:56. > :13:05.Tonight sees the last of the BBC's special Question Time programmes

:13:06. > :13:15.Tim Farron and Nicola Sturgen are in the hot seat,

:13:16. > :13:16.before a studio audience in Edinburgh.

:13:17. > :13:19.scheduled for yesterday, but was postponed after

:13:20. > :13:26.It has been a busy day for the parties and are Scotland's editor

:13:27. > :13:31.has been giving is a rundown ahead of tonight's event. It has been a

:13:32. > :13:34.busy couple of days of campaigning and two or three days until the

:13:35. > :13:38.election. Theresa May on about trust again, who do you trust to get the

:13:39. > :13:49.best deal on Brexit? Herself or Jeremy Corbyn. Conservative asked of

:13:50. > :13:52.-- activists gave a round of applause to her. She characterised

:13:53. > :13:56.herself as a passionate unionist, again making a point between Brexit

:13:57. > :13:59.and the union. Nicola Sturgeon saying the own way to stop the

:14:00. > :14:04.Tories who have had a damaging impact on this economy in Scotland,

:14:05. > :14:08.the way to bring them in was to stop the SNP. Kezia Dugdale said only

:14:09. > :14:14.Labour, only Jeremy Corbyn can oust Theresa May from Downing Street, in

:14:15. > :14:17.the same sort of thing about the strategy and tactical point. Tim

:14:18. > :14:22.Farron, Liberal Democrat leader, also in Scotland, saying the only

:14:23. > :14:28.plausible alternative to the SNP in Scotland is the Liberal Democrats

:14:29. > :14:32.and said that was true across many constituencies in the UK. Scotland

:14:33. > :14:38.political editor Brian Taylor. The debate is live on BBC One tonight at

:14:39. > :14:52.9pm and later on the news channel at midnight.

:14:53. > :14:54.Well one key reasons the Conservatives' gained

:14:55. > :14:56.an unlikely majority in the 2015 election, wasbecause of the stunning

:14:57. > :15:00.The Tories took 27 seats from Nick Clegg's party.

:15:01. > :15:03.Holding them this time round, could be key to staying in government.

:15:04. > :15:05.One of those seats is Cheltenham in Gloucestershire,

:15:06. > :15:08.where the Lib Dems will have to overturn a six and a half

:15:09. > :15:13.Ben Godfrey has been to the spa town, to check out the mood.

:15:14. > :15:16.At oak-wood children's Centre in Cheltenham they are bringing

:15:17. > :15:19.families together and the candidates to become the town's next MP need

:15:20. > :15:21.not look any further for a sense of unease about cuts to health and

:15:22. > :15:24.social care. When I first had him I started here and there was a group

:15:25. > :15:29.called best start and it has been stopped because there was a 52%

:15:30. > :15:32.budget cut. It's very much the NHS, we have great facilities here and it

:15:33. > :15:38.is making sure they continue, that is a big concern for me. The Lib

:15:39. > :15:43.Dems held Cheltenham between 1992 and 2015, it was a safe seat until

:15:44. > :15:47.the Conservatives took it with a 12% majority. And in case you are

:15:48. > :15:54.wondering, 56% voted to remain in the EU. But voters have been more

:15:55. > :15:58.engaged in issues around fair funding for schools and services at

:15:59. > :16:02.Cheltenham General Hospital. In 2013 under the conservative Liberal

:16:03. > :16:06.Democrat coalition government the A unit there was closed overnight

:16:07. > :16:11.and at weekends with serious cases being taken to Gloucester. 4-for

:16:12. > :16:15.potential Cheltenham MPs want a rethink and have different ideas

:16:16. > :16:19.about finding the money. Labour will put a massive increase in funding

:16:20. > :16:22.into the NHS, 37 billion over five years. We need to remove

:16:23. > :16:26.privatisation from the NHS because that's taking money out of the NHS

:16:27. > :16:30.through profit. We need to train doctors and nurses and pay them

:16:31. > :16:37.appropriately for what they do. We'd like to put a penny on income tax

:16:38. > :16:39.and get the cash into the NHS straightaway and enable local trusts

:16:40. > :16:42.like ours to make improvements like faster and better mental health

:16:43. > :16:45.services, and as a top priority to restore the Aimi. These ideas are

:16:46. > :16:49.pipe dreams unless there is a strong economy generating the tax revenues

:16:50. > :16:52.and that is why it is so vital to secure it under Theresa May. For the

:16:53. > :16:57.Liberal Democrats this seat is a must win to revive their political

:16:58. > :16:59.fortunes. Ben Godfrey, BBC Midlands today, Cheltenham.

:17:00. > :17:02.You may have been somewhat bemused by the opinion polls this weekend.

:17:03. > :17:05.A whole flurry came out - Opinium, ICM, YouGuv, you name it -

:17:06. > :17:07.predicting various leads for the Conservatives of anywhere

:17:08. > :17:14.Adam Fleming took his box of balls to London's South

:17:15. > :17:27.Meet the mighty mood box, used on our sister programme

:17:28. > :17:30.Daily Politics to find out what people really think.

:17:31. > :17:35.I'm taking it to London's Southbank Centre to ask people's

:17:36. > :17:44.And here's the question we're asking the great British public today.

:17:45. > :17:53.Opinion polls: are they science or fiction?

:17:54. > :17:56.On the day they never seem to come out as planned previously,

:17:57. > :18:02.so I think it's an element of fiction to it.

:18:03. > :18:06.OK, throw it back in then, very honest,

:18:07. > :18:11.Because what people say about what they are going to do

:18:12. > :18:13.isn't necessarily what they're going to do.

:18:14. > :18:15.Here's someone who juggles data for a living.

:18:16. > :18:23.What do you think about this as an opinion-gathering method?

:18:24. > :18:27.Well, as my idol Peter Snow would say it's just a bit of fun.

:18:28. > :18:31.When you're looking to do an accurate

:18:32. > :18:37.scientific poll you hope to

:18:38. > :18:43.accurately represent the population you're trying

:18:44. > :18:49.to survey in the sample that takes part in that survey.

:18:50. > :18:54.And so for instance you need the right

:18:55. > :18:56.number of old people, the right number of young people

:18:57. > :18:59.After the last election the professionals realised they

:19:00. > :19:02.didn't have the right number of Tory supporters and had spoken to too

:19:03. > :19:06.I think some people don't always say what they think.

:19:07. > :19:20.People lie. People lie?

:19:21. > :19:23.And why are different polling companies

:19:24. > :19:24.coming up with such different results?

:19:25. > :19:28.Usually you could come up with four or five

:19:29. > :19:31.reasons why pollsters are coming up with different numbers but on this

:19:32. > :19:34.occasion there is something quite straightforward going on, and it's

:19:35. > :19:37.whether or not you believe that young people and people who didn't

:19:38. > :19:40.turn out in the last general election in 2015, who now say that

:19:41. > :19:42.they're going to, whether they actually do.

:19:43. > :19:44.If you believe them then it's a closer race.

:19:45. > :19:46.Those pollsters who are saying it's a

:19:47. > :19:50.three or four point lead are more likely to be right.

:19:51. > :19:53.If, like me, and at ICM, you tend to be suspicious of

:19:54. > :19:55.people saying that they're going to change behaviours which are fairly

:19:56. > :19:59.embedded in historical precedent, then you should believe the likes of

:20:00. > :20:01.me and I'm saying currently it's a 12 point or so

:20:02. > :20:05.Guys, I'm doing a survey about opinion polls.

:20:06. > :20:08.In other words, are we all asking too many youngsters

:20:09. > :20:14.Do you pick up the newspaper every day going, I wonder

:20:15. > :20:18.No, I'm pretty sure what the polls are

:20:19. > :20:26.Theresa May still ahead but Labour squeezing in there.

:20:27. > :20:28.YouGov has suggested that would result in a hung parliament

:20:29. > :20:35.Based on the current polling we produced a broad

:20:36. > :20:39.At the time that was anything from 274 to

:20:40. > :20:45.345 seats the Conservatives might get.

:20:46. > :20:48.You need 326 for a majority, so at that time it was possible that

:20:49. > :20:52.The headline was YouGov predicts hung

:20:53. > :20:56.parliament, that was just one potential outcome.

:20:57. > :20:58.What you often see during election campaigns is

:20:59. > :21:03.that the interpretation of the polls, whether it's

:21:04. > :21:05.by broadcasters or the media, or social media, is

:21:06. > :21:07.somewhat different from the interpretation

:21:08. > :21:13.After three sweltering hours of doing this.

:21:14. > :21:16.Who's got some opinions they'd like to share with me?

:21:17. > :21:27.The polls are fascinating snapshots but it's the one on June 8th

:21:28. > :21:32.Well, there we go, a big majority of people here on the Southbank

:21:33. > :21:34.think the opinion polls are more fiction

:21:35. > :21:37.And here ends probably the dodgiest opinion poll in British

:21:38. > :21:56.I am with Adam on that one. That was very dodgy indeed. Katie, most

:21:57. > :21:58.people think it is fiction rather than signs, the fact of the matter

:21:59. > :22:01.is we all follow them. We promise every year, every election, every

:22:02. > :22:05.referendum, never to listen to the polls because we follow them and

:22:06. > :22:08.they turn out to be wrong but an exciting poll comes in and we spend

:22:09. > :22:12.a day talking about it and writing about it. If you look at the polls

:22:13. > :22:16.so far you can see that although they all have different figures they

:22:17. > :22:19.all seem to agree on the fact that the Tories started off with a very

:22:20. > :22:25.big lead and Labour have been making up ground. Yes, that is

:22:26. > :22:29.incontrovertible, Owen, isn't it? That has given succour to the Labour

:22:30. > :22:31.campaign and given them a certain amount of liftoff. How much do you

:22:32. > :22:36.believe in these polls because they are all over the place? I am a bit

:22:37. > :22:42.of a poll sceptic. On Brexit they were not that Ofcom I thought we

:22:43. > :22:45.would leave because of the polling. On Trump, Hillary Clinton won a bit

:22:46. > :22:51.majority of the popular vote. The problem with Theresa May is lots of

:22:52. > :22:55.people have basically found her the less people like her. The reason for

:22:56. > :22:58.that is she has a record of being inconsistent and dishonest. She said

:22:59. > :23:03.there would be no early election over and over again. We are talking

:23:04. > :23:10.about the polls! The polls man! We're talking about why the poll has

:23:11. > :23:15.narrowed. What is the point in having a chin stroking chat about

:23:16. > :23:18.them? I'm going to stroke my chin now. I will keep going, the reason

:23:19. > :23:23.the polls have narrowed is because she has a record of saying things

:23:24. > :23:25.she goes back on, early election, not increasing National Insurance,

:23:26. > :23:29.she then tried to go back on what she went back on in the first place.

:23:30. > :23:32.Integration targets, she said it would be reduced to the tens of

:23:33. > :23:37.thousand and it hasn't got close. She was a Remainer who reinvented

:23:38. > :23:40.herself as a hard-core Brexiteer command the dementia tax when she

:23:41. > :23:49.tried to impose a 100% inheritance tax, so the reasons why the polling

:23:50. > :23:53.has narrowed, and it's not clear from the polls about how much it has

:23:54. > :23:57.narrowed, I would still think the odds are stacked against Labour. The

:23:58. > :24:01.reason they have narrowed is a lot of people look at Theresa May based

:24:02. > :24:05.on what she has said and done trust it. Katie, Owen really wants to talk

:24:06. > :24:12.about the Conservatives, so you cancelled about Labour. So, tell me

:24:13. > :24:18.why you think Labour have done so well to narrow those polls? What is

:24:19. > :24:22.it they have done? I think it is two things. They started off from such a

:24:23. > :24:26.low bar, Jeremy Corbyn did, lots of people were surprised when he seemed

:24:27. > :24:31.likeable in lots of his media appearances. Secondly, the

:24:32. > :24:35.manifestos are often said not to matter but the Labour manifesto has

:24:36. > :24:38.lots of popular policies where is the Conservative manifesto seemed to

:24:39. > :24:43.be built on the assumption they didn't really need to bother because

:24:44. > :24:46.Jeremy Corbyn, we don't need to woo voters and we don't need to give

:24:47. > :24:50.them a reason to vote for us. For lots of people if you ask them why

:24:51. > :24:55.they vote conservative it would be a negative reason, because you don't

:24:56. > :24:57.like Jeremy Corbyn and that's not a successful campaign message. That's

:24:58. > :25:00.an interesting point because lots of the time the source of policies

:25:01. > :25:06.Labour have put forward have been vilified by much of the press and

:25:07. > :25:09.many politicians. But the reality is the polling bears it out and most

:25:10. > :25:12.people think the more well off should pay more tax and we should

:25:13. > :25:16.use that to invest in public services. Most people do believe

:25:17. > :25:20.that certain utilities like rail, water and energy should be not run

:25:21. > :25:23.by foreign governments and private companies but by the government that

:25:24. > :25:29.they vote in. And that most people, millions of people, think should we

:25:30. > :25:32.saddle young people with debt for going to university? The reason I

:25:33. > :25:36.say that is we don't know how the election will pan out, the odds are

:25:37. > :25:41.still against Labour. But I would say to people without getting a tiny

:25:42. > :25:46.little violin out, I feel like a lonely voice in the media on those

:25:47. > :25:50.policies, millions of people support those policies and they have got

:25:51. > :25:54.traction because of the fact people do like them but they haven't got

:25:55. > :25:58.the airing until now. They certainly got an airing, they suddenly got box

:25:59. > :26:03.office reception, and all of a sudden people went I quite like

:26:04. > :26:07.these ideas. I understand why in a poll people would say they like what

:26:08. > :26:11.Labour are offering but people often say in polls the Labour vote is

:26:12. > :26:16.overestimated. Which is true. That is partly the credibility issue. You

:26:17. > :26:18.might like them but it's ultimately whether voters when they get to the

:26:19. > :26:22.ballot box really believe they can vote for them and they can handle

:26:23. > :26:25.these things. Its turnout force of the problem Labour have which they

:26:26. > :26:30.must focus on is getting people who say they will vote Labour to get out

:26:31. > :26:34.and vote. I will end it now, Owen and Katie, it has been good having

:26:35. > :26:39.you, despite my protestations! Many thanks for that and to you for

:26:40. > :26:42.watching. Now it's time for the weather but thank you for watching

:26:43. > :26:47.The Election Wrap. Bye bye.