:00:40. > :00:50.Hello everybody. Hello and welcome in this studio together was three
:00:50. > :00:53.
:00:53. > :00:57.years ago, but ladies and gentlemen, I've got to say, the boss of this
:00:57. > :01:07.place has brought me back of his own free will and he wanted to give
:01:07. > :01:15.
:01:15. > :01:19.his own very special endorsement Thank you for joining us on BBC1.
:01:19. > :01:27.It is a simple formula - we take the big stories of the day and
:01:27. > :01:34.provide a huge platform to hammer them out. We break stories as well.
:01:34. > :01:38.Let's get stuck in. The police have only cleared up 4% of all so called
:01:38. > :01:41.punishment attacks. Tonight we ask why. And how and why do any of you
:01:41. > :01:48.support this barbarity? We will argue it out in this studio tonight.
:01:48. > :01:52.Simon Cowell and his love life is all over the papers. Well... One of
:01:52. > :01:55.his closest friends Louis Walsh is here. And find out why I've been
:01:55. > :02:00.very keen to track down a local property developer. We just
:02:00. > :02:04.wondered what you thought of this development? We have a packed
:02:04. > :02:14.studio tonight and there are loads of ways for you at home to get in
:02:14. > :02:34.
:02:34. > :02:36.Right, these so called punishment attacks... During 2010/2011, 83
:02:36. > :02:40.people were the victim of so called paramilitary style punishment
:02:40. > :02:43.attacks here. There are people who still to this day argue that it's
:02:43. > :02:46.the right way to punish drug dealers and anti-social behaviour.
:02:46. > :02:53.In one incident a father was recently made to bring his son by
:02:53. > :03:03.appointment to be shot. He complied. Can you be a decent person and
:03:03. > :03:05.
:03:05. > :03:10.support these in any way? If anyone who supports it, are you decent?
:03:10. > :03:20.Can you justify this? Joining me to debate this is former Red Hand
:03:20. > :03:21.
:03:21. > :03:31.Commando prisoner turned community And Paul Smyth, founder of the
:03:31. > :03:39.
:03:39. > :03:47.Let's start with the question - can you be decent in any way and except
:03:47. > :03:51.this is part of a solution, battering people, shooting them?
:03:51. > :03:56.listened to your programme in the last few days and ordinary people
:03:56. > :03:59.came on he told you the reason they thought it was still right to do
:03:59. > :04:07.this is because they live within the communities, the difficulty is
:04:07. > :04:13.we have had a 40 years of... Do think it will go away overnight?
:04:13. > :04:19.You think the responses of one when people come to paramilitaries for
:04:19. > :04:23.reform of justice that they will not give it? No matter what
:04:23. > :04:30.community euro, it does not mean you should justify pulling a
:04:30. > :04:35.trigger against another human. -- community you on in. It is not
:04:35. > :04:39.justified at all. I will always condemn it, and always have. I am
:04:39. > :04:45.trying to tell you the reasons behind it. The reasons are because
:04:45. > :04:50.people believe the police and not giving them the justice they want.
:04:50. > :04:55.You live in cloud cuckoo land when you think we live in a different
:04:55. > :04:59.society, this society we live in... Why is it them and us all of a
:05:00. > :05:05.sudden? I am questioning whether it is wrong to shoot another human
:05:05. > :05:12.being in 2012? Can you imagine this discussion anywhere else in the UK?
:05:12. > :05:22.It is wrong. Why do people except it is acceptable in the community?
:05:22. > :05:24.
:05:24. > :05:29.When you were interviewing people during the week, ordinary decent
:05:29. > :05:35.people said to you they believed it was a just act. Then you try to
:05:35. > :05:39.make them out to be a villain. did not. I am going to question
:05:39. > :05:44.that every person that says do you know what, in circumstances I can
:05:44. > :05:53.understand, because how far away is that from actually accepting it?
:05:54. > :06:00.From supporting it? I think this is an important text boat. Here's what
:06:00. > :06:05.we are asking... Do you support punishment attacks? This will be
:06:05. > :06:12.anecdotal, not scientific. If you do, text the word VOTE, followed by
:06:12. > :06:17.YES. If you think they don't text VOTE followed by NO. If you are
:06:17. > :06:26.against them under any circumstances, drug dealer, sex
:06:26. > :06:29.offender, any circumstances. Text us to say no. Our text number is
:06:29. > :06:31.81771 and texts will be charged at your standard message rate. For
:06:31. > :06:35.full terms and conditions see bbc.co.uk/nolan. Paul, you
:06:35. > :06:41.represent a group trying to stop this and say it is never right.
:06:41. > :06:46.work for a charity, we have a youth project which stands for whereas my
:06:46. > :06:50.public servant and young people from West Belfast, the area with
:06:50. > :06:55.the highest incidence of punishment attacks started campaigning through
:06:55. > :06:59.the site because they said Jim is right, many people do support this.
:06:59. > :07:06.These young people came out and said we do not support it and we do
:07:06. > :07:12.not know why anybody is standing up for the rights of people in our
:07:12. > :07:18.area were being brutalised. Almost half their attacks in the last few
:07:18. > :07:24.years were young people. What must it do to a young person's life? To
:07:24. > :07:29.be shot and maimed. The flashbacks, thinking they are going to die...
:07:29. > :07:35.There are things called restorative justice that has been happening
:07:35. > :07:40.which tries to bring the offender to the victim. There is a lot of
:07:40. > :07:45.stuff that has been happening and it does not get... You asked me the
:07:45. > :07:49.other day about the clear-up rate, it is simply not only because
:07:49. > :07:56.people believe maybe it is the right thing to do, when your
:07:56. > :07:59.grandmother gets marked and somebody burns a wheelie bin a by
:07:59. > :08:05.your front door, the thought of somebody being burnt to death...
:08:06. > :08:11.You can't just go down to the law of the jungle. You can't. 40 years
:08:11. > :08:17.of paramilitaries and will not go away tomorrow. The PSNI need to get
:08:17. > :08:21.together and work hard at this. There needs to be respect. Why do
:08:21. > :08:25.we need paramilitaries now? We are supposed to be any peace process.
:08:25. > :08:30.can only give you a reason from people who live in the communities
:08:30. > :08:37.I come from. There are dissident republicans out there, the
:08:37. > :08:43.potential of going back to a full- scale war in this country. That is
:08:43. > :08:53.giving a the facto excuse. There are many ways to get in touch at
:08:53. > :09:01.
:09:01. > :09:10.home. Barney is the first call. He is sitting there trying to half
:09:10. > :09:20.justified. What does he think the loyalist paramilitaries want from
:09:20. > :09:25.
:09:25. > :09:35.their community? Do you want to respond? Absolutely. Knee-capping
:09:35. > :09:36.
:09:36. > :09:39.of children, perverts, child molesters. I have totally condemned
:09:39. > :09:43.palate -- paramilitary shootings and beatings, I am here to give
:09:43. > :09:49.people a reason why it is happening. The fact it is happening will not
:09:49. > :09:58.be taken away, it is. People in the communities they come from the fear
:09:58. > :10:06.Simple as that, fact. The PSNI have revealed on the radio show on
:10:06. > :10:16.Friday they will launch a major campaign to stamp this out. Please
:10:16. > :10:24.
:10:24. > :10:30.welcome Assistant Chief Constable Before percent clearance rate him
:10:30. > :10:36.punishment attacks, 172 paramilitary attacks between 2008
:10:36. > :10:46.and 2010, out of the 272, how many have you cleared? 12. What an
:10:46. > :10:48.
:10:48. > :10:53.Well, 4% clearance rate is not enough and we need to do better,
:10:53. > :11:00.frankly. We are doing some work internally to review investigations
:11:00. > :11:04.into these palate -- paramilitary assaults and shootings. We are
:11:04. > :11:09.looking at the quality of the investigations. By any measure, 4%
:11:09. > :11:13.as a clearance rate, detection rate, for this serious kind of morality
:11:13. > :11:18.is inadequate but actually, part of the approach to this needs to be
:11:18. > :11:22.wider than the police. That is not passing the buck. Hold on a second,
:11:22. > :11:25.when you are saying that you are having a look at the quality of the
:11:25. > :11:30.investigations, is it possible you have been turning a blind eye for a
:11:30. > :11:34.number of years and saying, it happens in Northern Ireland? That
:11:34. > :11:39.is absolutely not the case. We need something called evidence before we
:11:39. > :11:42.can... Go and get it, infiltrate them. The nature of this and the
:11:42. > :11:46.way it happens means that this really challenging and difficult.
:11:47. > :11:51.It is our job to try and recover it but we can't do that without the
:11:51. > :11:56.support of the community. We need things like the end a evidence and
:11:56. > :12:02.CCTV all we need witnesses -- DNA. A community will be terrified, you
:12:02. > :12:06.know how this works. You have got to take the upper hand and make the
:12:06. > :12:10.first step and show you are more powerful than them. If you look at
:12:10. > :12:15.this over the last 10 years, and I have heard some of the comments
:12:15. > :12:19.about we are still in conflict and the rest of it, as a society we are
:12:19. > :12:25.moving out of conflict and 10 years ago, there were 320 of these
:12:25. > :12:30.paramilitary assaults, including shootings, in a year. This year
:12:30. > :12:36.just passed, there were 75. It was 75 too many, frankly, but things
:12:36. > :12:42.are changing. Out of those, you had a 4% clearance rate. That is the
:12:42. > :12:46.bit I am accepting we need to do better at. I want to say that with
:12:46. > :12:54.the community, we can do better than this but we need that support.
:12:54. > :12:57.Let me go into the audience. Hello, sir. The PSNI have an awful lot of
:12:57. > :13:01.work on their hands and an awful lot of bureaucracy within the work
:13:01. > :13:06.that they have to do. The reason why the community don't support
:13:06. > :13:09.them is because all they see are the failings of the PSNI, due to
:13:09. > :13:14.all of the bureaucracy and the different things they have to get
:13:14. > :13:19.through. If there was to be more work, these guys are doing it
:13:19. > :13:23.because they do not trust the work the PSNI are doing. If they were to
:13:23. > :13:27.be working within the PSNI, work within the system to improve the
:13:27. > :13:34.system... Do you think paramilitaries are filling a vacuum
:13:34. > :13:38.because they are not performing? You gentlemen here has admitted to
:13:38. > :13:42.the point that the PSNI are not doing as much of a job as they
:13:42. > :13:46.should be doing, so in a way, whilst I would not say they are
:13:46. > :13:53.filling a void, I would say they are coming up with their own brand
:13:53. > :13:57.of justice. Robert wants to talk to us at home, he is on the phone.
:13:57. > :14:03.would like to make a comment in regards to the police performance.
:14:03. > :14:07.There is no question about it that's the police don't have a grip.
:14:07. > :14:11.The fact that the expertise is not available among them, they are
:14:11. > :14:15.tackling it the wrong way, it is a serious back in being filled by
:14:15. > :14:19.paramilitaries. I don't condone violence, but when there is that
:14:19. > :14:26.action by the police, this takes place. Why don't they take a look
:14:26. > :14:30.at the United States and make a request for maybe 50 a 60 of these
:14:31. > :14:38.people who really go to town on this kind of thing that 50 or 60.
:14:38. > :14:41.Bring them over to train our police and show them. I say this with all
:14:41. > :14:51.respect, I have not been disrespectful to the police, but I
:14:51. > :14:51.
:14:51. > :14:58.don't think they have a handle on it. Weekend be joined now have by
:14:58. > :15:02.Conal McDevitt -- we can. What is this solution? You have got an
:15:03. > :15:06.abysmal 4% and you're trying to do something about it. But there is a
:15:06. > :15:11.societal thing, isn't there? What are the politicians doing and what
:15:11. > :15:17.is the culture within which this is acceptable? We will find out at the
:15:17. > :15:20.end of the show, it is acceptable to a section of the community.
:15:21. > :15:26.There is a history to this than to an extent, I agree with Jim, but
:15:26. > :15:30.those who go out and carry out a punishment beating on a young
:15:30. > :15:33.person I just perpetuating a cycle of human rights abuse. They are
:15:33. > :15:37.doing it the exact same thing that whoever they are punishing might
:15:37. > :15:41.have done to someone else and that does not solve anything. So the
:15:41. > :15:45.problem needs to start at every level of society, right in the
:15:45. > :15:50.communities. The PSNI do need to try a different ways and better
:15:50. > :15:55.ways of being able to tackle this issue and to date, the Policing
:15:55. > :15:58.Board have been asking for action from the PSNI and we haven't really
:15:58. > :16:03.had a high-level response we would like to have seen until they were
:16:03. > :16:08.shown last Friday. When are you going to admit that some of this is
:16:08. > :16:15.actually down to the thugs that call themselves paramilitaries?
:16:15. > :16:19.They like swaggering around their communities. Steven, I can also
:16:19. > :16:23.tell you -- Stephen, I can also tell you that in their communities
:16:23. > :16:26.I come from, a lot of them do not want to be doing these things but
:16:26. > :16:29.sometimes they feel when people are coming to them... You had a woman
:16:29. > :16:35.this morning crying her eyes said, people torturing her next door,
:16:36. > :16:44.couldn't give her a piece and she went to do police and they didn't
:16:44. > :16:49.do a thing. So she got people to go around and they got what they
:16:49. > :16:55.believe is justice. These paramilitaries are alleged drug
:16:55. > :17:02.dealers. Are they doing drugs yourself? -- themselves? Don't tell
:17:02. > :17:09.me you don't know. The people they are dealing with are up to their
:17:09. > :17:19.eyes in trucks and the sooner they are better -- taken out if society
:17:19. > :17:22.What I'm saying is there needs to be trust, then these to be trust
:17:22. > :17:28.built between X Loyalist and republican people and the years I
:17:28. > :17:34.have been working with them, there is... Of let me just go down to the
:17:34. > :17:40.very front. They -- let me just go down to the very front. The course
:17:40. > :17:44.does seem to be backing up the pay -- PSNI, these guys go in, they go
:17:44. > :17:49.out, they go back and do it again. You say it is a 4% clear-up rate,
:17:49. > :17:53.it wouldn't matter if it was 40%, the courts are not backing them up
:17:53. > :18:00.that they are back on the streets the next day. We wanted to pick up
:18:00. > :18:04.the phone. Martin is on the line. - - We want you. What I have been
:18:04. > :18:09.trying to say is I think it is an absolute disgrace. We have had a
:18:09. > :18:15.woman on tonight's news who has been robbed on her -- in her own
:18:15. > :18:18.home three times and this 4% is a joke. I would back anybody who I
:18:18. > :18:23.knew anybody in their committed to take it on themselves to sort these
:18:23. > :18:27.people out. The ash in their community. A so you believe in the
:18:27. > :18:34.law of the jungle. You don't want to know who is deciding who should
:18:34. > :18:38.shoot who. Where should it stop? If they shoot you in any, do they
:18:38. > :18:45.shoot you in the spine? Shoot them in their head, depending on what
:18:45. > :18:51.they have done. You could have your PlayStation, your TV screens, you
:18:51. > :18:55.can do what you like, it is not going to stop it. It is just so
:18:55. > :18:58.facile, and you got a clap from this lot in the studio, but to
:18:58. > :19:03.shoot somebody in their head for theft, do we wonder why Northern
:19:03. > :19:10.Ireland sometimes find itself embarrassed elsewhere? They might
:19:10. > :19:13.cut their fingers off for stealing. This is what you are up against.
:19:13. > :19:19.need to understand what we are actually dealing with. The 4%
:19:19. > :19:22.detection rate, I am saying clearly and publicly it is inadequate.
:19:22. > :19:28.don't have a lot of time, so give us a target you are going to beat.
:19:28. > :19:34.This time next year. 4% isn't good enough. I don't want any
:19:34. > :19:39.paramilitary attacks and the thing we need to remember is the people
:19:39. > :19:42.who are doing this actually don't have this widespread support across
:19:42. > :19:46.communities that has been referred to tonight. There are people
:19:46. > :19:49.operating for their own ego and status and the rest of it. They
:19:49. > :19:54.want power because their rationale for existing no longer exists
:19:54. > :20:02.because we are moving into peace. Ladies and gentlemen, please thank
:20:02. > :20:06.our guests. Thank you very much. Don't forget the text vote. The
:20:06. > :20:09.details are on your screen. I really want you to vote tonight, I
:20:09. > :20:13.want to get a sense from those of want to get a sense from those of
:20:13. > :20:18.you watching about what do you think. If you could find any
:20:18. > :20:22.circumstances in which she would support a punishment attack, vote
:20:22. > :20:25.yes, if not and you think it is abhorrent and now that horrible,
:20:25. > :20:32.vote know. Here is what is still to come. A I
:20:32. > :20:37.have got the hard hat on to find a have got the hard hat on to find a
:20:37. > :20:41.property tycoon. But first, time for tonight's star
:20:41. > :20:49.guest. He is responsible for 28 number-one hits, he has been sacked
:20:49. > :20:53.and we hired by Simon Cowell on the X Factor -- rehired. And even he
:20:54. > :20:59.draws the line that listening to one of the most recent signings for
:20:59. > :21:09.him, Jedward. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome as be guest, Louis
:21:09. > :21:19.
:21:19. > :21:27.First of all, thank you for coming. Thank you, Stephen. Secondly, I had
:21:27. > :21:33.a secret. It is true. What? When I was reading about you and I read
:21:33. > :21:37.that your first artist but you had taken on was Johnny Logan,...
:21:37. > :21:47.was the first success, that was 1980. That was the first thing I
:21:47. > :21:52.
:21:52. > :21:59.ever bought. John a locum, told me If any body will still get a
:21:59. > :22:03.bouncing. Anybody wants to do that, it is not a problem. -- if anybody
:22:03. > :22:07.wants to get up here and sing. Johnny was a great artist and I
:22:07. > :22:10.learned a lot from working with him and from Linda Martin, from Belfast,
:22:11. > :22:14.because she won the Eurovision Song Contest as well. Allowed to people
:22:14. > :22:19.think I have just appeared on TV but I was working and slogging for
:22:19. > :22:22.years -- a lot of people. It must be difficult working with egos.
:22:22. > :22:27.That is why they are on the stage that, these people, otherwise they
:22:27. > :22:32.would be working in a bank. They have all got egos, some more than
:22:32. > :22:37.others. How do you handle that? Are you strict? I have to work with
:22:37. > :22:41.them, you see. You take them on, you don't just take them on, you
:22:41. > :22:46.take the families and boyfriends, girlfriends, any bad habits, you
:22:46. > :22:56.get that as well. And you just buy into it. When it was West I've,
:22:56. > :22:57.
:22:57. > :23:05.I've never had any problems and we worked for years together and --
:23:05. > :23:09.Westlife. I are working with Jedward at the moment. I would love
:23:09. > :23:13.Jedward in the studio. Would you like to see Jedward on the show?
:23:13. > :23:17.love them, I think they are lunatics. They are different, but
:23:17. > :23:23.they are entertaining and kids love them. I will get them on in the
:23:23. > :23:28.next few weeks. Maybe you can sing with them. That is an idea. But it
:23:28. > :23:33.is a tough business, people don't realise. And you only get so long.
:23:33. > :23:38.You have a shelf-life. We see you on prime-time, are the X Factor,
:23:38. > :23:42.and Simon Cowell has had a really difficult week. Simon is one of my
:23:42. > :23:48.best friends and one of the nicest guys in the world. Honestly, I have
:23:48. > :23:53.worked with him for 14 years, he is the reason I am on TV and he made
:23:53. > :23:58.by bands. He has made so many people millionaires. If you put the
:23:58. > :24:07.list, it is endless. Will he be feeling the heat, with the Boys
:24:07. > :24:12.doing so well on BBC One? -- Boyce. Honestly, no, we love competition.
:24:12. > :24:16.It makes us better. What do you think of the show? I like the
:24:17. > :24:22.chairs and I like Tom Jones. I think Jessie J is very good as well.
:24:22. > :24:26.Why? She is feisty and opinionated. You have the very young and the
:24:26. > :24:30.very old, but Tom Jones is a legend. You have got to make a decision
:24:31. > :24:33.with the X factor, because for so many years, the comedy actor and
:24:33. > :24:39.the people who couldn't sing, they were part of the strength of the
:24:39. > :24:44.show but what the Voice shows you if you don't need people for the
:24:45. > :24:48.comedy actor, it is about pure singing. I don't know, I think
:24:48. > :24:54.people watch for all sorts of things and X Factor has that, it is
:24:54. > :25:01.the best show by a mile. It is our night season and we are coming back
:25:01. > :25:08.fighting. I know Gary is on it and to Lisa is honoured, but I don't
:25:08. > :25:13.know if Kelly is. -- on it. I don't know if I will be. I never wanted
:25:13. > :25:19.to be on TV, I just wanted to work in music. I am a real music fan,
:25:19. > :25:25.all kinds of music. And what television also brings you is the
:25:25. > :25:31.profile, and I really felt for you last year when the Falls
:25:31. > :25:37.accusations, abhorrent, -- false accusations. And you were totally
:25:37. > :25:43.innocent, crazy accusations. worst thing in my life, ever, ever.
:25:43. > :25:48.How do you get up and fight it? am... I am very approachable and
:25:48. > :25:52.that night, I was out in Dublin, I was approached, and I can't talk
:25:52. > :25:57.about it for legal reasons. I don't want to go into the detail, but
:25:57. > :26:02.here is what I wanted to do for me. I am so wary about everybody. I
:26:02. > :26:12.don't go to nightclubs, I don't go anywhere, but I had a legal case.
:26:12. > :26:14.
:26:14. > :26:19.You don't need to say that again because it is a given. But when you
:26:19. > :26:23.are so approachable, as I have heard you what... His is scary.
:26:23. > :26:27.Someone can come along to you, get a picture and say you were with
:26:27. > :26:32.them, you did this, you did that. When you got the phone call to say
:26:32. > :26:39.this is happening, can you tell me what it does to you inside? I was
:26:39. > :26:43.going to do a show, I was in Dublin airport. I was dazed, totally dazed,
:26:43. > :26:47.but I got on the plane and did the TV show. It was the worst night of
:26:47. > :26:52.my life. I did not think I would get through the night. But it will
:26:52. > :26:58.make me stronger and I am who I am, I can't change that. I was innocent
:26:58. > :27:02.but I am so wary of everybody now. Any body that comes to me to do a
:27:02. > :27:06.picture, or give me a CD, I am like, I am scared. That is the worst
:27:06. > :27:13.thing about the business. I have seen so many people with from
:27:13. > :27:18.stories in the paper, that is the worst thing about fame. I read that
:27:18. > :27:22.you found it so tough that you consider taking your own life.
:27:22. > :27:27.night in that hotel I said how I am I going to get out of this? I said
:27:27. > :27:32.he will believe me, I did not know. People think that is no smoke
:27:32. > :27:36.without fire. With a story on the front page of the paper, it just
:27:36. > :27:41.takes a few people to believe it. Did you consider it? I don't know
:27:41. > :27:45.how I got through the night. There was a PR girl with me and it would
:27:45. > :27:50.not let her out of my room, I said police day, otherwise I will not
:27:50. > :27:53.get through this. I got through it, it is still not over, but it is
:27:53. > :27:59.scary out there. There are always people looking for opportunities to
:27:59. > :28:05.make money. My mother is here tonight, I am very proud of her and
:28:06. > :28:10.I love her dearly. How do you tell your family about something like
:28:10. > :28:14.that? My mother was great, all my brothers, because they knew I was
:28:14. > :28:19.innocent. They were easy, it is just the general public because you
:28:19. > :28:25.were out there on television. People thinking maybe there is
:28:25. > :28:29.something to this. That was the scary thing. Did you buy papers?
:28:29. > :28:33.avoided the papers. I don't go out much because of that, it changed my
:28:33. > :28:37.life. Why don't go out in Dublin, to nightclubs, pubs. I don't do
:28:37. > :28:42.anything. I can see the tears in your eyes. I don't like talking
:28:42. > :28:46.about it. I really don't. It was the worst day of my life, I thought
:28:46. > :28:52.my life was over, thought I was finished in the business because of
:28:52. > :28:56.a newspaper that everybody buys. What was Simon like? Amazing. So
:28:56. > :29:04.good. He is a good friend and came round and said darling, tell me
:29:04. > :29:13.what happened. Everything is darling with Simon! He is such good
:29:13. > :29:17.man, the real person is really good. He likes the fast women and the big
:29:17. > :29:21.cars. All the women and the fast cars! That is what he is like,
:29:21. > :29:28.really good friend of mine. really good friend like Cheryl
:29:28. > :29:33.Cole? She is an acquaintance! She's a nice girl. Not the best singer in
:29:33. > :29:43.the world, she is not Mariah Carey, but a gorgeous girl. You loved her
:29:43. > :29:53.
:29:53. > :29:59.Louis Walsh, ladies and gentlemen! That was after Christmas for a
:29:59. > :30:05.magazine. It took two hours. In heels like that. Good legs!
:30:05. > :30:14.bad! I look like my mother in it. So what is important to you in
:30:14. > :30:20.life? Le bling. Having fun. -- living. I love my job, music, I
:30:20. > :30:26.loved working with Westlife, Jedward. I love my job. Clem the
:30:26. > :30:32.biggest pop fan. What about other things in life? Real things. The at
:30:32. > :30:37.his real to me. That is my job. You love the radio, I love my pop music.
:30:37. > :30:41.And lucky to be doing something they like. It is a tough business.
:30:41. > :30:45.I see so many people get a chance and blowing it, believing their own
:30:45. > :30:51.publicity. That is the problem today. People believe what they
:30:51. > :30:57.read about themselves in the paper. And usually they make it up. It is
:30:57. > :31:07.a fickle business and only a few people have a long career. Firm
:31:07. > :31:13.
:31:13. > :31:19.Morrison and YouTube, they are real I am getting to an age now, 38...
:31:19. > :31:25.thought you were more! What are the priorities as you get older? You
:31:25. > :31:30.can drive the car you want, you have a house, you are famous.
:31:30. > :31:40.known. I don't want be famous. Good friends, fun. That is what life is
:31:40. > :31:45.
:31:45. > :31:53.about. Can a couple of people speak Hyde. How was it going? Fine,
:31:53. > :31:59.thanks. I can't condone any allegation that has been made
:31:59. > :32:02.against you. You have probably met a lot of people. I saw you about 10
:32:02. > :32:06.years ago and you probably don't remember me because it was a quick
:32:06. > :32:13.hello but I can tell you I have met a few different other people
:32:13. > :32:23.involved in show business and by and down-to-earth guys I have had
:32:23. > :32:24.
:32:24. > :32:29.the pleasure of meeting. Thank you very much. I always go to the
:32:29. > :32:33.Odyssey with West life, Boyzone, and it is a great place, we are not
:32:33. > :32:38.saving lives, we are just entertaining. I do love my job.
:32:38. > :32:42.When you have people as young as these boy bands and girls, whatever,
:32:42. > :32:49.you are the other end of that spectrum, how do you keep up the
:32:50. > :32:54.energy? I love it. I would find it exhausting being around 20, even
:32:54. > :32:59.13-year-old! I work with the songs, the record companies, the
:32:59. > :33:04.accountants, everybody. I don't go on the road much with them. I only
:33:04. > :33:08.go to a few gigs, but I have never with them, M on the phone. Who is
:33:08. > :33:13.the best singer you have ever worked with? Shane from Westlife,
:33:14. > :33:21.no doubt. He is picture-perfect all the time. I will manager after the
:33:21. > :33:26.band. He is a great singer. Mark is brilliant, too, by the way.
:33:26. > :33:33.Westlife and vocally, they tick every box. What about Jedward?
:33:33. > :33:37.are the best fun. Kids love Jedward, their characters, their energy. You
:33:37. > :33:42.can tell me what you think of them, I won them here in the next two
:33:42. > :33:52.weeks. Can they sing? They can definitely seeing now. They are not
:33:52. > :34:04.
:34:04. > :34:13.They asked me to sing at last orders, I can sing. With Jedward, a
:34:13. > :34:23.kids love them. I want to know how you managed to look younger than
:34:23. > :35:01.
:35:01. > :35:11.There is only one thing you can do Top seed their. -- seat there.
:35:11. > :35:21.don't think I would fit your jacket. See that, you can read that. Please
:35:21. > :35:28.
:35:28. > :35:38.A real pleasure to talk to you. And you so much for coming. Am I
:35:38. > :35:41.
:35:41. > :35:44.If you want to pick up the phone, please do so, all the tweeds come
:35:44. > :35:53.into my personal address. I will talk to you after the show and had
:35:53. > :35:55.the lead during. -- hopefully. Still to come... There are plans to
:35:55. > :35:59.pay nurses, midwives, and other hospital staff differently
:35:59. > :36:03.depending on where they live. Is is fair that a nurse in London will be
:36:03. > :36:08.paid more than here in Belfast? As you know from the radio every day,
:36:08. > :36:15.if you need help, get in contact with me and I'll do my best for you.
:36:15. > :36:22.Great teams working every day to try to help you. All I ask is
:36:22. > :36:28.remembered the e mail. We're looking at a story this week from
:36:28. > :36:32.Portstewart that is really interesting. Take a look at this.
:36:32. > :36:37.This is cash bonanza year for Northern Ireland, from the Titanic
:36:37. > :36:42.boon to the Gold Rush, we should be raking it in. But to cash in there
:36:42. > :36:46.are some places that need to be cleaned up first. The Irish Open
:36:46. > :36:51.this week was played in Port Rush and before the eyes of the world
:36:51. > :36:56.descend on us there are some eyesores to sort out first. This is
:36:56. > :37:02.Portstewart and look at that thing. Locals say it is a total eyesore,
:37:02. > :37:07.in one of the most beautiful places in Northern Ireland. This looks
:37:08. > :37:13.like the sight of a developer who has gone bust. Wrong. The owner,
:37:13. > :37:19.Norman Menary, a country mansion owning property developer. He is
:37:19. > :37:23.one of the people cashing in on the gold -- Gulf gold rush because the
:37:23. > :37:28.same council who want to make him clean this Saab has given him
:37:28. > :37:38.permission to build this, a 20 bed luxury boutique hotel for the high
:37:38. > :37:45.
:37:45. > :37:54.running good golf crowd to relay It looks like a bomb site, a waste
:37:54. > :38:00.of space, a dangerous waste of space. This should be secured.
:38:00. > :38:04.this waste of space has been here for nearly 20 years. What this
:38:04. > :38:11.developer has been able to do is leave that like that and move on to
:38:11. > :38:15.his next project. That is the shocking thing. Here is where the
:38:15. > :38:21.story gets interesting... Stormont is so concerned about how bad this
:38:21. > :38:25.looks they have even an offer at -- offered Normand public money to
:38:25. > :38:30.clear it up. But that won't happen because Norman said if cleaners
:38:30. > :38:35.came on to the land he would treat them as trespassers. We asked Mr
:38:35. > :38:41.Menary if he would like to speak to was but he did not want to do so so
:38:41. > :38:51.I guess that means I have to speak to him. Did they get me extra-
:38:51. > :38:52.
:38:52. > :38:59.large! Mr Menary, you and I need to have words. So where would we find
:38:59. > :39:06.him? First stop, his 20 bed boutique luxury hotel? Listen to
:39:06. > :39:11.this, in 2003 Norman Menary pleaded guilty to demolishing two listed
:39:11. > :39:20.buildings, then reinstated them. And where was this? On the same
:39:20. > :39:27.road he it has now got permission to extend his luxury hotel. -- he
:39:27. > :39:33.has now. Hopefully he will not mind us bringing his development to his
:39:33. > :39:42.doorstep. Mr Menary, Stephen Nolan from The Nolan Show. We were
:39:42. > :39:47.wondering what you thought of this development? Do you think this is a
:39:47. > :39:52.development you're proud of? Is it a development that should be
:39:52. > :39:56.finished in any way? What you think of that side? There is money to
:39:56. > :40:06.clean this site and you will not give permission for people to go on
:40:06. > :40:10.
:40:10. > :40:20.and clean it. Why not? Hello? Norman? It's only me! So we are off
:40:20. > :40:20.
:40:20. > :40:25.to his fancy pad. From what we can see, he has formed -- he is
:40:25. > :40:29.protecting his own view. We left this question. At the last minute I
:40:29. > :40:35.heard he was out on the golf course so why squeeze into my best
:40:35. > :40:40.trousers. Hello, Norman. Stephen from the BBC. I wondered why you
:40:40. > :40:46.went clear-up the site? The council have offered the money to clear it
:40:46. > :40:50.up. Is it fair that site is there for 20 years? Have you looked into
:40:50. > :40:54.the eyes of some of the residents, they have lived there all their
:40:54. > :41:04.life and asked me to say to you please Will you cleared up? Do you
:41:04. > :41:07.
:41:08. > :41:14.think it looks good, or is a total We duly have decided? We duly
:41:14. > :41:24.appear beside that ruined and -- would you live beside it? With that
:41:24. > :41:40.
:41:40. > :41:42.APPLAUSE. Let's get some answers. Please
:41:42. > :41:52.welcome the Government minister who Alex Attwood
:41:52. > :41:53.
:41:53. > :41:59.Now hello, good to see you. Welcome. We have got local
:41:59. > :42:02.devolution. Can you do anything about this? The first thing we are
:42:02. > :42:08.doing is a lot around Portrush and Portstewart. This is the best
:42:08. > :42:12.chance we have to profile in Northern Ireland, our time and
:42:12. > :42:17.place. That is why the Government in my department put money into
:42:17. > :42:22.Portstewart. Why what do you think of that site? The reason there is
:42:22. > :42:25.publicity around that site is that I and Coleraine Borough Council,
:42:25. > :42:31.who have worked hard to improve sides in Portrush and Portstewart,
:42:31. > :42:36.including sites... A what do you think of that side? Let me answer,
:42:36. > :42:43.like the one we have just seen, and I have made this very clear to the
:42:43. > :42:49.people like Mr Menary in the world, our making it very clear that I
:42:49. > :42:53.will not have a situation where in one hand, people are coming to my
:42:53. > :42:57.department looking for planning permission of, rightly so, for
:42:57. > :43:02.proper development and at the same time, but few hundred yards away,
:43:02. > :43:07.leaving sides derelict. Are you winding me up? In this actual case,
:43:07. > :43:11.as you know, if you've helped him get his development for his hotel -
:43:11. > :43:14.- you helped him. He has left it like that the 20 years. First of
:43:14. > :43:19.all, if people comply with good planning practice and policy, they
:43:19. > :43:25.will get planning approval. That is good practice, that is get that
:43:25. > :43:34.good government. But at the same time, Stephen, that site... I know
:43:34. > :43:41.it very well. What do you think of that question must -- obit,
:43:41. > :43:46.Minister? It is appalling. Or why are you letting him do it? I am not.
:43:46. > :43:52.But Thatcher was publicising it is because of the intervention of me
:43:52. > :43:56.and government of -- the factual publicising it. We put the
:43:56. > :44:01.spotlight on developers. You shouldn't be putting the spotlight
:44:01. > :44:06.on me. We have put the spotlight on developers like this man and others.
:44:06. > :44:15.The spotlight is everywhere, why don't you do something about it?
:44:15. > :44:18.What am I doing? We put the spotlight on derelict sites.
:44:18. > :44:22.Secondly, my officials have been instructed that where there are
:44:22. > :44:29.developers who are failing to live up to their responsibilities,
:44:29. > :44:32.including leading sides to go to decay,... That is why... Let me
:44:32. > :44:36.finish, next week, people like developers like that Gentleman will
:44:36. > :44:40.be called into planning services to account for themselves. This is
:44:40. > :44:46.after he has put up the luxury hotel in the same area which is
:44:46. > :44:49.supported after he left that site. Get your facts right. I made
:44:49. > :44:54.various interventions in respect of that hotel development in order to
:44:54. > :45:00.make sure it was handled properly and to ensure that people did not
:45:00. > :45:07.have a free run. Can you do anything? Kenya making clean that
:45:07. > :45:12.site? The law is very limited. Can you make him clean that the
:45:12. > :45:17.side. We have put the public spotlight on and we are calling
:45:17. > :45:21.people to account for what they are doing. Let me make a suggestion,
:45:21. > :45:26.why haven't you issued a completion order? You can issue a completion
:45:27. > :45:32.order and it doesn't go anywhere, that is the legal limit. Really?
:45:32. > :45:38.You may laugh. Let us step back for a moment. In the north of Ireland,
:45:38. > :45:46.we have hundred of listed locations... They have been used
:45:46. > :45:49.nearly 30 times in England. They have been used here, zilch. Why not
:45:50. > :45:55.issue a completion order? We don't have the same legal powers in
:45:55. > :45:59.Northern Ireland. If we issued a completion order, there is nothing
:45:59. > :46:05.we can do in order to N force it, where as in England, they have the
:46:05. > :46:11.ability to take it further. Were due considered? Let me give you an
:46:11. > :46:14.example of what I am doing it. In the last 30 years, there have been
:46:14. > :46:21.too urgent work notices served in the respect of damage being called
:46:21. > :46:25.that -- caused two listed buildings. In the last six months, four and
:46:25. > :46:34.five of those served, including relation to the property, in that
:46:34. > :46:37.Beria, that is in the ownership of Mr Ben Ali's family -- in that area.
:46:37. > :46:42.It is my understanding that what you can do with that completion
:46:42. > :46:46.order is that the council, Coleraine Council, cannot do it but
:46:46. > :46:53.you and your department can. It is my understanding that you can issue
:46:53. > :46:57.that completion order, at least try to take it to court, and that would
:46:58. > :47:04.give Mr Meauri 12 months and the council can go on and clean it --
:47:04. > :47:09.Mr Menary. As planning minister, I have turned over virtually every
:47:09. > :47:12.stone. You can listen to the answer or not, but the answer is we have
:47:12. > :47:16.turned up every stone in order to try and ensure that those who are
:47:16. > :47:21.not living up to planning responsibilities, but the spotlight
:47:21. > :47:25.is brought on them and they are facing up to responsibilities and
:47:25. > :47:29.if there is any responsibility within the law... Article 37,
:47:29. > :47:32.planning Northern Ireland. I am saying to you that whoever has been
:47:32. > :47:36.doing your research does not understand the limits of the law.
:47:36. > :47:40.That is why I instructed my officials to find further ways and
:47:40. > :47:50.means to fight -- to make sure those developers not living up to
:47:50. > :47:51.
:47:51. > :48:01.responsibilities, leading sides in dereliction, delivered to their own
:48:01. > :48:06.
:48:06. > :48:16.and... This is what Mr Menary's And But we checked with Coleraine
:48:16. > :48:27.
:48:27. > :48:30.There are developers in the North he will not live up to their
:48:30. > :48:33.responsibility and more than most planning ministers in the past, I
:48:33. > :48:37.put the spotlight on them to make sure people account for what they
:48:37. > :48:43.are failing to do. A local newspaper can put the spotlight on
:48:43. > :48:45.them, be as a local journalist can put a spotlight on anybody. -- me.
:48:46. > :48:55.Surely there is devolution in Northern Ireland so you can deliver
:48:56. > :48:57.
:48:57. > :49:01.for the people, actually deliver? APPLAUSE.
:49:01. > :49:08.So go up to Portstewart and Portrush. There will be many people
:49:08. > :49:14.in this area in this audience that will go up there over the next few
:49:14. > :49:19.months, to the beaches, to surf, to go and watch the golf. And when you
:49:19. > :49:22.do go up, you will see in Portstewart and Portrush, 20-25
:49:22. > :49:26.sites that were derelict and indicate, and because of an
:49:26. > :49:30.intervention I undertook two months ago to try and improve the
:49:30. > :49:37.appearance of those sites, including the Metropole Hotel, that
:49:37. > :49:41.was an appalling sight on the road into Portrush, bad building has
:49:41. > :49:48.been knocked down and many of the other sides have been improved --
:49:48. > :49:52.that. That is devolution work King that working to the benefit of the
:49:52. > :49:58.people who live in Portrush and Portstewart. -- working. And party
:49:58. > :50:02.division working the issue being prepared to come here and being
:50:02. > :50:10.prepared to talk to people -- and part of devolution working years.
:50:10. > :50:20.All right, thank you. If you have got a story, e-mail. If
:50:20. > :50:21.
:50:21. > :50:24.you want to talk to beyond Twitter, So tonight's text vote is now
:50:24. > :50:28.closed, so please do not text any more as your vote will not count
:50:28. > :50:30.but you may still be charged. We'll bring you the result at the end of
:50:30. > :50:33.the show. Next up, the Tory Health Secretary
:50:33. > :50:36.Andrew Lansley wants to push through an idea that would probably
:50:36. > :50:39.mean nurses here in Northern Ireland getting paid a lot less
:50:39. > :50:42.than nurses in London. It is based on regional pay and those who
:50:42. > :50:46.support it basically argue that if you live somewhere where the cost
:50:46. > :50:50.of living is low, then you should get paid less - even if you are
:50:50. > :50:55.doing exactly the same job. Joining me to debate this is
:50:55. > :51:00.entrepreneur Katie Hopkins. APPLAUSE.
:51:00. > :51:10.But to see you. -- but to see you. And author and
:51:10. > :51:12.
:51:12. > :51:16.broadcaster Owen Jones. I'll kiss Face sub-regional paid.
:51:16. > :51:20.Why should a paramedic Laura Nourse in Northern Ireland B pay that paid
:51:20. > :51:24.less than someone across the pond? Wherever you live, it is either
:51:24. > :51:28.bought expensive are less expensive to live there, so you should be a
:51:28. > :51:33.paid according to what the market can afford a your area. If I astute
:51:33. > :51:38.to go home and open up your wallet as a taxpayer and pay someone more
:51:38. > :51:42.than they should be, would you be happy to do that -- if I asked you?
:51:42. > :51:45.If you asked me if somebody should be paid less here in Northern
:51:45. > :51:51.Ireland that someone across the water, I would say they are doing
:51:51. > :51:55.exactly the same job -- it ban. Equal pay is not about paying
:51:55. > :52:00.people the same, it is about equitable pay, it is about looking
:52:00. > :52:04.for fare best. If you live in a place which is cheaper, if you love
:52:04. > :52:10.-- love their place more affordable to living, you don't need to beat
:52:10. > :52:16.paid as much. Let's not corner to regional pay, it is a pay cut
:52:16. > :52:26.imposed by sudden million S in London -- some one million shares
:52:26. > :52:27.
:52:27. > :52:32.We are talking about people who look after you when you're ill, who
:52:32. > :52:36.educate your children, who collect your dustbins in the morning,
:52:36. > :52:41.pillars of decent society. Don't give us the whole Florence
:52:42. > :52:46.Nightingale thing, I am not buying that. In the private sector...
:52:46. > :52:51.Florence Nightingale? Just give me loads of your northern accent,
:52:51. > :52:57.applied with a bit of Florence Nightingale and you will have... I
:52:57. > :53:01.don't buy it, Sunny Jim. The northern accent doesn't cut it with
:53:01. > :53:06.a lot of people in Northern Ireland. It is interesting, because your
:53:06. > :53:12.entire career was funded by public money. You were launched by the BBC
:53:12. > :53:17.as thousands of pounds was thrown at you, you appear on TV to attack
:53:17. > :53:20.pillars of the community. This is self-defeating, because if we have
:53:20. > :53:24.public sector workers being paid less in places like Northern
:53:24. > :53:27.Ireland and where I am from in Stockport, they will have less
:53:27. > :53:31.money in their pocket, less money to spend and it will hit the
:53:31. > :53:35.private sector. The reality for Northern Ireland, the amount of
:53:35. > :53:40.which public sector earnings exceed that in the public said that
:53:41. > :53:44.private sector is the highest in any part of the UK. -- public
:53:44. > :53:52.sector and it exceed those in the private sector is the highest part
:53:52. > :53:57.of the UK? I will answer Stephen's question first... The difference
:53:57. > :54:02.between private sector and public sector is... Partly because private
:54:02. > :54:05.sector employers are not paying their staff a good wage. Where do
:54:05. > :54:11.you think money comes from? You think it comes from a great part in
:54:11. > :54:15.the sky? It comes from profitable companies, very profitable
:54:15. > :54:19.companies, but you cannot get away from a simple economic fact that if
:54:19. > :54:23.people have less money to spend, it hits the private sector. I have
:54:23. > :54:27.been to places across the North which were hammered by the
:54:27. > :54:33.destruction of industry. Do you know what I saw? Boarded-up shops,
:54:33. > :54:38.businesses that had to close. had no idea. A because private
:54:38. > :54:42.sector... The private sector has to drive the growth. You are not
:54:42. > :54:47.listening, you are talking and you have to start listening. The
:54:47. > :54:52.private sector is where growth comes from. People like they are
:54:52. > :54:56.driving the growth in this economy and people like me are employed in
:54:56. > :55:00.young people. People like they are bringing jobs. Where would the
:55:00. > :55:06.private sector be without an educated workforce or nurses and
:55:06. > :55:13.doctors to make sure... Here we go again with Florence Nightingale.
:55:13. > :55:18.You have seriously got to respect... By don't respect his point of view.
:55:18. > :55:24.-- I don't respect. You have got to respect nurses. I'd do, but I don't
:55:24. > :55:30.buy this whole Forest Nightingale, I'll pour me, -- Florence
:55:30. > :55:38.Nightingale, oh poor me. You have to pay people according to what the
:55:38. > :55:44.market can afford. We heiress Patricia? -- Where is Patricia.
:55:44. > :55:47.Katie supports this regional pay structure and of course, a report
:55:47. > :55:52.today has found out that families in Northern Ireland have the lowest
:55:52. > :55:56.disposable income and she wants to make it worse. I hope this comedy
:55:56. > :56:01.show is over, because the people who live here, it is a very serious
:56:01. > :56:07.proposition. It is one that we have got to take into a serious arena.
:56:07. > :56:15.This is a low-paid economy. With all due respect... We will you let
:56:15. > :56:19.me finish? CHEERING.
:56:19. > :56:23.Let her finish. The proposal is to take even more wages out of this
:56:23. > :56:33.economy and that will have an impact on even more of ice
:56:33. > :56:39.businesses and they will be more closures and more job losses. It is
:56:39. > :56:43.also a proposal that is a direct attack on Women's pay, because in
:56:43. > :56:47.the National Health Service, it is a majority female workforce and
:56:47. > :56:52.very strongly here, 82%, so it is an attack on women and equal pay
:56:53. > :56:57.for women. I want to continue this discussion on Twitter, because we
:56:57. > :57:07.have over run. In the meantime, ladies and gentlemen, please thank
:57:07. > :57:09.
:57:09. > :57:14.I will tell you, I will tell you why I want to come to the text vote.
:57:14. > :57:19.Just tell me roughly how many people have voted on the text vote?
:57:19. > :57:27.Do we know? Thousands and thousands of people, I will try and get the
:57:27. > :57:32.exact figure. 3,300 people have text did denied from home. Here
:57:32. > :57:38.comes the result. -- send text messages from home. I am very
:57:38. > :57:43.messages from home. I am very interested to see what you said.
:57:43. > :57:49.57% of you say you can support punishment attacks in some
:57:49. > :57:56.circumstances and 42% of you say that you didn't. What does that
:57:56. > :58:03.mean? Let's get someone's view on mean? Let's get someone's view on
:58:03. > :58:07.that. How do you react to that? The majority of the people watching who
:58:07. > :58:10.voted support punishment attacks in some circumstances. I am not
:58:10. > :58:14.surprised, I have been on with Wendy Austin on the radio and it
:58:14. > :58:18.was pretty much the same. I can understand people saying antisocial
:58:18. > :58:22.behaviour, people are getting sick of it, but shooting somebody or
:58:22. > :58:26.battering them with any sort of weapon is not acceptable in any
:58:26. > :58:31.circumstances. A lot of the blame has been put on the police as well
:58:31. > :58:35.tonight, but we also need to look at the justice system. Are you to
:58:35. > :58:39.shop at that result? The majority of people supporting so-called
:58:39. > :58:43.punishment attacks? It is shocking but it shows there is a lack of
:58:43. > :58:48.confidence and the police. That is what has to be addressed. We are
:58:48. > :58:51.out of time, thank you so much for making the show so special. Night
:58:51. > :58:58.night, everybody and just before we go tonight, let me remind you of
:58:58. > :59:02.how you can get in touch with us. You can e-mail us. I want to
:59:02. > :59:07.continue the discussion on Twitter tonight. We are back on the Nolan
:59:07. > :59:11.radio show tomorrow morning. It starts at 9 o'clock. And over the
:59:11. > :59:15.next hour, I will be tweeting on all of the subjects we have done