:00:35. > :00:39.Hello, thank you. Hello there, ladies and gentlemen, really simple
:00:39. > :00:49.message tonight. You are all welcome live, to BBC One.
:00:49. > :00:49.
:00:49. > :00:54.Tell you what, there are some winners in this crowd tonight, you
:00:54. > :01:04.know by looking at them. Here's what we have for you tonight.
:01:04. > :01:08.
:01:08. > :01:12.Sectarianism. Remember it? It hasn't gone away, you know. That's
:01:12. > :01:16.how important it is. Here's what's coming up. It's community relations
:01:16. > :01:19.week, but recent estimates point out that the more walls have been
:01:20. > :01:28.built up here between catholics and Protestants during peace than in
:01:28. > :01:36.the Troubles. It's not just about the wall, is it? Is the reality,
:01:36. > :01:45.that we're all still guilty of being a little bit sectarian? I
:01:45. > :01:50.smell rat-gate. One of these could be very close to you. Secretly
:01:50. > :01:58.filmed snorting cocaine, bankrupt, and has fitted in four kids all
:01:58. > :02:01.that by the age of 31. Kerry Katona is on Nolan tonight.
:02:01. > :02:11.APPLAUSE There are so many ways you can get
:02:11. > :02:31.
:02:31. > :02:35.Right. We are unable to receive text comments from the Orange
:02:35. > :02:39.network right now. Please don't text as you may be charged. We are
:02:39. > :02:44.aware of the issue. We will let you know as soon as it is resolved.
:02:44. > :02:52.Community week here got off to a great start with Sinn Fein and the
:02:52. > :02:56.DUP claiming some golf clubs here are havens for middle-class
:02:56. > :03:04.sectarianism. That on the heels of Derry-born football James McClean
:03:04. > :03:07.declining to play for Northern Ireland. Here's what he said: I
:03:07. > :03:13.think any catholic would be lie if anything they said they did feel at
:03:13. > :03:17.home seeing all those flags, union jacks and hearing the songs and
:03:17. > :03:22.chants". Great week then. How many catholics and Protestant still hate
:03:22. > :03:32.each other just because of their religion? Let's welcome the
:03:32. > :03:34.
:03:34. > :03:40.Alliance Party leader, Ford ford. - - David ford. Taking David Ford on
:03:40. > :03:43.tonight is the political commentator, David Vance.
:03:43. > :03:49.APPLAUSE We ask the DUP to come on tonight,
:03:49. > :03:53.we ask Sinn Fein to come on tonight and they wouldn't do so. And, I'm
:03:53. > :03:56.sitting here and I'm thinking how important this is for all of us as
:03:56. > :04:01.a community. For each and every person that will be born over the
:04:01. > :04:06.next few years, no matter whether you are 16, 17 at the minute or 70,
:04:06. > :04:09.how do you want to live? How do you want your political leaders to be
:04:09. > :04:15.shaping your life? There are lots of people watching at home, lots of
:04:15. > :04:19.people in this stud Yeo, the DUP and Sinn Fein, the main parties in
:04:19. > :04:25.this country, they would not talk to you about this issue. David Ford,
:04:25. > :04:31.you will, thank you for coming in. Can you set out for me your vision
:04:31. > :04:34.of what a real shareded future would actually look like in this
:04:34. > :04:38.country, how would we live it? There are a number of different
:04:38. > :04:44.factors. We wouldn't have a situation that 94% of our school
:04:44. > :04:49.children are divided with the result in empty classrooms and all
:04:50. > :04:54.the cost that is. We wouldn't have people unable to go to a health
:04:54. > :04:58.centre because it was in a different area. We wouldn't have
:04:58. > :05:01.the interface structures you refer to. There haven't been any more
:05:01. > :05:06.since I became Justice Minister two years ago. We have stopped building
:05:06. > :05:12.them. The gate you showed being closed in app Alexander Park has
:05:12. > :05:17.been opened up on our watch. That is the change we need to see.
:05:17. > :05:22.it's LaLa Land, is it achief chiefable or do people want. It you
:05:22. > :05:27.are not affiliated to the two main players because people vote for
:05:28. > :05:33.them in their masses. They haven't delivered a shared document. It's
:05:33. > :05:38.not hurting them at the Ballot Box? Look what happened at the Ballot
:05:38. > :05:43.Box last year? Our vote went up last year. I have been setting out
:05:43. > :05:46.clear plans to make changes and do what we could removing interface
:05:46. > :05:51.structures, opening up gates and making changes to the society.
:05:51. > :05:54.blame you, they say you haven't been turning up at meetings. Your
:05:55. > :05:59.party has not been turning up at meetings. They say they arrange
:05:59. > :06:06.meeting every single week, why aren't you turning up? That is not
:06:06. > :06:13.true. They are hardly spoofing? will repeat the facts. Every single
:06:13. > :06:19.meeting that has been arranged has had a senior Alliance person. Every
:06:19. > :06:23.one but one has had Chris Little. What is going on about something so
:06:23. > :06:26.important that we are getting mixed messages? This is important for
:06:26. > :06:29.every single one of us in this community. There is an argument
:06:29. > :06:33.about whether you are turning up at meetings? Maybe they are trying to
:06:33. > :06:37.distract from the facts. They produced the consultation document
:06:37. > :06:44.in the first place because we insisted on it before I became
:06:44. > :06:48.Justice Minister two years ago. They had 270 responses, they panned
:06:48. > :06:52.their inadequate and failing proposals. There were
:06:52. > :06:55.recommendations to strengthen the good relations strategy to make
:06:55. > :07:02.real differences in line with the things we have been saying. They
:07:02. > :07:09.have been draing -- dragging their heels. We need the working group to
:07:09. > :07:16.build the strategy that people want. I want you to use this programme,
:07:16. > :07:21.pick up the phone: Please get in touch. Please use this programme as
:07:21. > :07:25.your platform to send a message to all of these people. You have said
:07:25. > :07:30.that Stormont is mired in sectarianism? Yes. I'm surprised
:07:30. > :07:39.that anyone is surprised that 14 years on from the Belfast Grement
:07:39. > :07:44.we have a more -- Agreement we have a more polariseed society. If you
:07:44. > :07:48.look at the institution up at Stormont, to be in, it first of all,
:07:48. > :07:56.you have to designate yourself as being unionist or nationalist or
:07:56. > :08:00.whatever in David's case. The vision starts there. The division
:08:00. > :08:03.at Stormont, which we've endured for the last 14 years, has, in my
:08:03. > :08:08.view, fed down into the community. That is why no-one should be
:08:09. > :08:12.surprised that Northern Ireland has more peace walls now than it did
:08:13. > :08:16.pre-Belfast Agreement. Perfectly obvious. A young lady in the
:08:17. > :08:21.audience with the red hair. You were talking to me before the show.
:08:21. > :08:31.Where are you? Hello. I personally think that sectarianism begins in
:08:31. > :08:36.our schools over here. I can't see any reason why kids from areas
:08:36. > :08:42.can't be joined in a secular education. It seems ridiculous for
:08:42. > :08:47.me? When I was at school, which was quite a while ago, people went to
:08:47. > :08:52.separate schools. You know, when we came home from school we went out
:08:52. > :08:58.and played together. Society wasn't then, I'm talking back in the '60s,
:08:58. > :09:01.what is it is now. Things changed. I think things fundamentally
:09:01. > :09:05.changed back when the terrorist campaign started in the late '60s.
:09:05. > :09:10.That caused profound problems in Northern Ireland, which I think we
:09:10. > :09:15.still live with to various degrees. Now, my point is, I think what we
:09:15. > :09:19.have seen at Stormont has made things worse, not better. I see
:09:19. > :09:23.what you mean. I mean, I think a lot of children don't have the
:09:23. > :09:27.opportunity outside school either to integrate. I think it's the
:09:27. > :09:32.responsibility of the parents, but also those at Stormont to make sure
:09:32. > :09:35.that that can happen? That has been where the big failure has been, at
:09:35. > :09:43.Stormont. It's appropriate in this particular week to nail it where it
:09:43. > :09:47.is, the problem stems from Stormont. A young man here, just on the very
:09:47. > :09:50.end here. Go-ahead. APPLAUSE
:09:50. > :09:55.What would you suggest should be done to solve this problem at
:09:55. > :10:00.Stormont? It's being well you coming out tonight and saying that
:10:00. > :10:05.there is divide and you have to affiliate with being unionist or
:10:05. > :10:12.nationalist, what do you suggest can be done about this? How old are
:10:12. > :10:17.you? I'm 23. When you say, "what can be done" I bang on about this
:10:17. > :10:22.on the radio every single day of my life. Realise the power you have.
:10:22. > :10:26.The pressure I put these boys under, you can put them under more
:10:26. > :10:34.pressure. You employ them. What do you want your Northern Ireland to
:10:34. > :10:37.be like? Isn't the problem, young people of this gentleman's age, and
:10:38. > :10:42.others, unfortunately, many of them vote for the two tribes up at
:10:43. > :10:46.Stormont. They actually, I'm not saying you in particular,
:10:46. > :10:52.unfortunately the majority of young people put their X in a place which
:10:52. > :10:56.causes the very problems that people complain about. At the very
:10:56. > :11:00.front here. I would it disagree with. That I would say that the
:11:00. > :11:03.young people of that young fellas age and younger are not voting
:11:03. > :11:09.because they can't see that it will make any difference, so they decide
:11:09. > :11:18.not to vote. It's the same people voting time and time again.
:11:18. > :11:22.APPLAUSE The Chairman of the Community
:11:22. > :11:26.Relations Council is here, where are you Tony? What progress are we
:11:26. > :11:29.getting in terms of where we should be now? Where is this shared future
:11:29. > :11:38.document that was promised to the people of Northern Ireland, where
:11:38. > :11:43.This document that was published a number of years ago was rejected by
:11:43. > :11:47.the Executive. They were meant to come up with an alternative?
:11:47. > :11:54.produce their own document and consulted on that and were meant to
:11:54. > :11:59.make a decision and they still have not. Two years of nothing. Yes.
:11:59. > :12:03.That document was condemned widely. There was not one measure of
:12:03. > :12:09.support for it because it was a document with very little in it and
:12:09. > :12:14.very little for the future. How are they getting away with two years of
:12:14. > :12:19.nothing? You must be pretty in the tent that you cannot put pressure
:12:19. > :12:25.on them to create a document? got them to produce a draft
:12:25. > :12:32.document. Draft! There was no document on a shared future when
:12:32. > :12:36.David Trimble and Seamus Mallon were involved and none when Mark
:12:36. > :12:40.Durcan and David Trimble were in charge and none when Ian Paisley
:12:40. > :12:44.and Martin McGuinness were involved. So getting a draft document was a
:12:44. > :12:48.significant achievement. We have got a group working on it but they
:12:48. > :12:52.are failing to deal with the issues as seriously as all those that
:12:52. > :12:57.responded wanted. This is the problem, the document will not
:12:57. > :13:02.solve anything, it is essentially rhetoric. A strategy document sets
:13:02. > :13:05.the way in which the Government would operate. It is accompanied by
:13:05. > :13:13.an action plan and we would do something about shared education,
:13:13. > :13:17.about how we display flags. problem is, rhetoric is no
:13:17. > :13:20.substitute for effective action and the problem for you, David, you
:13:20. > :13:28.were in government, which is profoundly based on polarisation
:13:28. > :13:32.and division. Tony, who would you all responsible for no document?
:13:32. > :13:35.Essentially it is the documents that are meant to emerge from the
:13:35. > :13:40.Executive and they amended take responsibility. In spite of the
:13:40. > :13:44.delay in producing the document, the communities they doing this
:13:44. > :13:48.themselves. The issue is not so much about the document itself, it
:13:48. > :13:53.is that the people in power have the responsibility for these big
:13:53. > :13:57.areas, education, tackling the peace lines, tackling issues of the
:13:57. > :14:01.past, all of these issues have to be tackled by the Executive. But at
:14:01. > :14:04.local level, communities are getting on with it, crossing the
:14:04. > :14:10.divide, and the communities beside those peace lines are working
:14:10. > :14:13.closely together. That point about tackling Interfaces, the reason
:14:13. > :14:16.there is a gate opening in Alexander Park is because people
:14:16. > :14:22.wanted it and the Department of Justice worked with the city
:14:23. > :14:25.council to bring that about. It doesn't matter to judge that the
:14:25. > :14:31.two largest parties were doing it, we did that because the parties
:14:31. > :14:34.were doing something about it. will be aware of the argument that
:14:34. > :14:41.some politicians have an interest in keeping this divide, there may
:14:41. > :14:46.be some votes by them and their self-interested in this divide.
:14:46. > :14:53.think we should applaud ourselves. We have come on 20 years. 20 years
:14:53. > :14:57.ago, 25 years ago, Belfast city centre was a ring of iron. Do you
:14:57. > :15:05.want children to be educated together? Catholics and bodies and
:15:05. > :15:13.sitting together? Absolutely. they delivered it? No. Why not?
:15:13. > :15:17.am not accepting it. We do not get asked more. Users now, send a
:15:17. > :15:23.message up to the hell, what do you say to them? Get it done, get
:15:23. > :15:28.talking. We have had 40 years of talking, it has been there for 14
:15:28. > :15:37.years. Nothing has happened for 14 years.
:15:37. > :15:41.Let's get some telephone calls. Hello, Christine? My girl was 10
:15:41. > :15:45.years after Holy Cross with her boyfriend, she has been a mixed
:15:45. > :15:50.relationship, nobody needs to be told what happened at Holy Cross,
:15:50. > :15:54.or sectarianism and all of that, how did she manage to do with that?
:15:54. > :16:00.Howard they happily living together? They are to art students.
:16:00. > :16:06.She has no problem in a mixed relationship? No hassle or abuse?
:16:06. > :16:09.Well, Stephen, no, they have not. The kids their own age when they
:16:09. > :16:14.were younger, they would have got some abuse, but they rose above
:16:14. > :16:21.that and they rose above it in a good manner and in a good way. So,
:16:21. > :16:24.why can't, as I said before, all right, the men in Stormont, the
:16:24. > :16:28.politicians, they have ideas and experience and experienced the
:16:28. > :16:37.Troubles and all of that. These kids have experienced it as well.
:16:37. > :16:41.They can learn a lot from them kids. Thank you. Up at the back. It seems
:16:41. > :16:46.the two main parties are using this as a political manoeuvre. If they
:16:46. > :16:52.continue keeping this sectarianism bear, keeping the community is
:16:52. > :16:55.divided and keeping the poor votes. I am in a situation where I have
:16:55. > :16:59.got to speak for Peter Robinson's party at Matra McGuinness's party
:16:59. > :17:03.because they cannot bring anybody here to talk to you. What they
:17:03. > :17:08.would say is they would say, look how they are working together. Did
:17:08. > :17:13.you ever think it was achievable? Peter Robinson has said that we
:17:13. > :17:18.need to cherished different sense not make it a division. We need to
:17:18. > :17:21.not make it into Division. That is the likes of what he would say.
:17:21. > :17:26.That is greater as a sound bite, but every time when it comes to an
:17:26. > :17:30.issue, or you get his sniping and sniping and nothing gets done.
:17:30. > :17:35.Describe the Northern Ireland you want to live them. One that is
:17:35. > :17:39.different than what we have. If you see the everyday working-class
:17:39. > :17:43.people and the middle-class areas that get on, they go to work every
:17:43. > :17:47.day in their officers. But there will be some people, I have not
:17:47. > :17:51.heard from people here yet, and they do not want to live with a
:17:51. > :17:56.Catholic. They do not. These people are here in this audience tonight.
:17:56. > :18:02.They have that ibid. They do not want their children to Setanta next.
:18:02. > :18:11.There is a guy you're bursting has got to get in. The -- bursting his
:18:11. > :18:15.guts to get in. I have two young boys that will both be going
:18:15. > :18:19.through education and I think it is the Oni way forward. The divisions
:18:19. > :18:23.we have all suffered and we have all had trouble in the Troubles, we
:18:23. > :18:28.need to put it behind us and say, people are people, just get on with
:18:28. > :18:37.it. These boys in Stormont haven't a clue, to be honest. It is the
:18:37. > :18:40.people on the ground. APPLAUSE OK, hopefully we have
:18:40. > :18:45.started some of this debate tonight, to follow on on the radio tomorrow
:18:45. > :18:53.morning. We will be on BBC Radio Ulster at 9am tomorrow morning if
:18:53. > :18:57.you want to pick up the telephone. Thank you for coming in, David, and
:18:57. > :19:07.telling the people what you think of this issue. I appreciate it.
:19:07. > :19:09.
:19:09. > :19:14.APPLAUSE Coming up: Rats, I had been on the streets tackling this
:19:15. > :19:19.vermin. I do not like it to appear at all.
:19:19. > :19:24.I don't care if there are rats appear! I don't like it!
:19:24. > :19:34.My next guest shot to fame with Atomic Kitten, the girl group, aged
:19:34. > :19:39.
:19:39. > :19:43.She was secretly filmed taking cocaine at which cost around
:19:43. > :19:47.endorsement deal with Iceland. She has filed for bankruptcy since then
:19:47. > :19:52.and has been treated for bipolar disorder and that is all in one
:19:52. > :20:02.lifetime. She is still only 31 years of age. Please welcome Kerry
:20:02. > :20:11.
:20:11. > :20:19.Katona! You have got an intriguing live
:20:19. > :20:23.story. Really! A story of survival. I was born a fighter, born a
:20:23. > :20:30.survivor, you can knock me down, but you cannot keep me down.
:20:30. > :20:34.spent time in care? Yes, four sets of foster parents, I was in refuges,
:20:35. > :20:39.I went to a different schools. I first memory is being three years
:20:39. > :20:46.of age and watching my mother the slit her wrists. That is why I have
:20:46. > :20:51.got my children. Why did she do that? Self-harming. In those days,
:20:52. > :20:59.it was called manic depression. It was all that I knew. I was an only
:20:59. > :21:03.child. I will not blame her for my mistakes, I am a grown woman.
:21:03. > :21:06.read in your book that one prevailing image that I had from
:21:06. > :21:11.her book, was when you saw your mother lying on the kitchen floor
:21:11. > :21:15.and blood on the kitchen lino. Yes, battles when I was put on
:21:15. > :21:20.foster care. We were in a refuge, the Salvation Army, and a mother
:21:20. > :21:23.took me out of school and be moved to London. We moved with her
:21:23. > :21:31.boyfriend who had just come out of Parkhurst. Steven Spielberg
:21:31. > :21:37.couldn't write this! Attitude to a movie! -- I should do a movie!
:21:37. > :21:42.like to already! Humour is a defence mechanism. I'd take the
:21:42. > :21:46.mickey at myself. Let me get back to my suicidal story! It was my
:21:46. > :21:54.mother and her boyfriend had been out where they steal credit cards
:21:54. > :21:58.and they go out and do whatever they do. We came home and my mother
:21:58. > :22:04.was very aggressive. He beat my mother Robyn the car and wanted me
:22:04. > :22:08.to hijack a bus. I had literally turned 13. He beat up my mother, he
:22:08. > :22:13.beat me up, told us he was Freddie Kruger. He wanted to cut our feet
:22:13. > :22:17.off so we could not run off, chop our hands off so we could not phone
:22:17. > :22:21.anyone. He stamped my mother. I pulled a knife out of my mother's
:22:21. > :22:28.leg and she passed out from the blood. He passed out with alcohol.
:22:28. > :22:32.He were telling this very effortlessly. -- you are. The
:22:32. > :22:38.impact this would have on you as a child on any human being, is that
:22:38. > :22:45.what Mr Watts in later life? don't think it was just that. -- is
:22:45. > :22:50.that what mess you up in later life. I was a really, really good kid, I
:22:50. > :22:55.was an only child. I was always the parent, my mother was the child. At
:22:56. > :23:01.14 and is only allowed supervised visit with my mother. She had a
:23:01. > :23:06.girlfriend then. She lost my step dad. It is very complicated! Get
:23:06. > :23:11.the book expect it is much easier! My mother gave me my first drug
:23:11. > :23:17.when I was 14. She said it was sherbet. It was speed. I didn't
:23:17. > :23:22.know any different. He took drugs from 14? Yes, I didn't know
:23:22. > :23:26.anything else. You lie down with dogs, you get fleas. You have
:23:26. > :23:32.things in your head that that is how life is supposed to be. I knew
:23:32. > :23:37.no different league. Every chapter in your life, there is a massive
:23:37. > :23:44.incident that would flatten most people. Yes. I had been through the
:23:44. > :23:50.mill. In 2007, a major robbery. was held hostage by three masked
:23:51. > :23:55.men when I was married to my second husband. They had a sledgehammer, a
:23:55. > :24:00.butcher's hook and at carving knife. Obviously, I'm scared of Nye's
:24:00. > :24:04.because of the incident when I was 13 which I told you about. --
:24:04. > :24:09.scared of the knives. A dispatch a fight, I went into the Priory, I
:24:09. > :24:14.could not go back to the house. But are unable to cope with that.
:24:14. > :24:18.you describe a nervous breakdown to me? I was hysterical, I could not
:24:18. > :24:23.stop crying, I was shaking. When I left my home, there were 15
:24:23. > :24:29.paparazzi outside my front door constantly. To be in faded inside
:24:29. > :24:32.my home, I felt like I was violated. -- invaded. The fact that they
:24:32. > :24:38.thought that my husband at the time had something to do without, it
:24:38. > :24:42.messes up your head about and also why was on drugs as well. You do
:24:42. > :24:52.not know what to believe any more. I had been clean for two-and-a-half
:24:52. > :24:53.
:24:53. > :25:00.years now. After this interview, I may need to
:25:00. > :25:07.double by Afghan coat gets back what is the Priory like? -- and
:25:07. > :25:11.might need a double vodka and Coke after this interview. I want to
:25:11. > :25:15.make a truly clear, the Priory for me was a break, it was a holiday
:25:15. > :25:20.break. It did not really happening much. Up until I went to a place
:25:20. > :25:25.called Arizona for six weeks when my first husband went and I broke
:25:25. > :25:29.down. When that incident happened, I felt a failure as a wife, a woman
:25:29. > :25:34.and a daughter. When you cannot force someone to love you. All I
:25:34. > :25:39.wanted was a family unit after what I went through as a kid. Arizona
:25:39. > :25:43.have to be massively, but I fell off the wagon again. At his back on
:25:43. > :25:49.drugs up and allow went to a place called GI Jane boot camp. I went
:25:49. > :25:59.for two weeks in 2010 and it was pure exercise. It was six, seven
:25:59. > :25:59.
:25:59. > :26:09.hours a day. I do a lot of a DAX I need your diet regime! -- I do well
:26:09. > :26:10.
:26:10. > :26:15.lot of it! That changed my life. I was diagnosed as bipolar, I was on
:26:15. > :26:21.prescription medication, is taking drugs, cocaine was my best friend.
:26:21. > :26:27.I had no friends, no family, my mother sold my story. G I Jane boot
:26:28. > :26:32.camps changed my life. The doctor said to go to the gym and exercise.
:26:32. > :26:38.My exercise was to lines of cocaine and a kebab. That is what I
:26:38. > :26:44.exercise was. We sought that you were phoned in her home and we saw
:26:44. > :26:50.some of the footage, and this was paraded around. -- we looked at
:26:50. > :26:54.some of the footage of you that was filmed in your home. The footage of
:26:54. > :26:58.the taking drugs and that infamous footage. It was in the News of the
:26:58. > :27:08.World. Yes, that was what was leaked in my own house, in my
:27:08. > :27:12.You were taking coke? I know what you are going to say. I'm not
:27:12. > :27:16.going... I will sit here and hold my hands up. I will take full
:27:16. > :27:22.responsibility for my actions. No- one forced me to do anything much I
:27:22. > :27:27.was a messed up lost soul. You were parading yourself as Mum of the
:27:27. > :27:30.Year? No. I paraded myself as Kerry. I want to make it clear. All these
:27:30. > :27:36.stories in the papers, I've been hacked. I'm in an investigation
:27:36. > :27:41.with them right now. If I wasn't hacked, I could of coped with these
:27:41. > :27:46.demons and issues going on in my life so much more privately.
:27:46. > :27:51.Unfortunately the stories get hacked. Are you sure it was hacked?
:27:51. > :27:56.The police called me in last year. 22 voice messages. Files on me. I'm
:27:56. > :28:01.in a case at the minute, which I can talk about, because the News of
:28:01. > :28:07.the World has shut down. There is 480 odd articles from a period of a
:28:07. > :28:12.year. Let me say, people go, she wants to be on front cover of
:28:12. > :28:18.papers and magazines. I wasn't. The stories were being hacked from my
:28:18. > :28:22.phone. The circle goes in like that, then out and out. I have to get my
:28:22. > :28:28.story across. Some of the newspaper journalists would counter that with
:28:28. > :28:32.saying, look, you can make big money in endorsements with a
:28:32. > :28:36.certain celebrity image. Therefore, they wanted to tell the public all
:28:36. > :28:40.of the truth, the whole picture? Absolutely not. Not just about
:28:40. > :28:44.phone-hacking. I'm talking about if there is someone taking cocaine.
:28:44. > :28:50.That is a different story. public perceive them. I get what
:28:50. > :28:54.you're saying. As being Mum of the Year. I get what you are saying.
:28:54. > :28:59.The face of Iceland. I understand that. Wh annoyed me more than
:28:59. > :29:03.anything. They wasn't helping the situation. When I was trying to get
:29:03. > :29:07.clean. There was another story on the front page of the News of the
:29:07. > :29:13.World. I became isolated. I didn't leave my house for six months much
:29:13. > :29:17.I lost my friend and family. I thought they were selling my story.
:29:17. > :29:24.I got clean, a story came out. Cocaine is there for me when I'm
:29:24. > :29:31.down. It picks me up when I'm alone. I fell out of love with it. When
:29:31. > :29:35.you say were alone? I was. Did you not see who I was married to at the
:29:35. > :29:41.time. I have friend for a life. When something goes wrong they are
:29:41. > :29:48.there. Did you not have that? didn't. I fell out with my mum. My
:29:48. > :29:53.mum sold a story on me. I haven't spoke to her for a few years. It is
:29:53. > :29:57.a dangerous relationship we have. The man I was married to isolated
:29:57. > :30:02.me from away from everybody. I'm a strong person. I lived on my own
:30:02. > :30:08.from the age of 16. I was a mum, my mum was a daughter. My second
:30:08. > :30:13.husband took that away from me. My first marriage was so devastating,
:30:13. > :30:18.I was in a rush to fix it with the wrong person. With my second
:30:18. > :30:26.husband, cocaine was a massive factor between us both. If I go
:30:26. > :30:30.through your story so far. How long are you on air for? The next two-
:30:30. > :30:34.days. You watched domestic violence during your childhood. One incident.
:30:34. > :30:38.Your mum has been stabbed with a knife. You are involved in a major
:30:38. > :30:47.robbery. You take a break down. You are paraded over television with
:30:47. > :30:51.slurred speech on This Morning. You are paid bankrupt with a tax bill
:30:51. > :30:55.you can't pay. Here is your question, how do you fight it? For
:30:55. > :31:01.every person who has tragedy in their life, where do you get that
:31:01. > :31:05.strength from? What is your plan? The strength I got from, if I could
:31:05. > :31:09.answer it I would bottle it up and sell it and I would be richer than
:31:09. > :31:14.I am now. Because of the life experience from a very young age, I
:31:14. > :31:21.have been given the tools to cope. All I know is how to fight. Now,
:31:21. > :31:28.what I really, really want to do more than anything is set up a
:31:28. > :31:36.reborn centre. It's like rehab. I come out, put weight on, get back
:31:36. > :31:42.on the gear. It's masking a problem, it's exercised base. Rehab has a
:31:42. > :31:45.stigma of drink and drugs. It's rubbish. People have been abused.
:31:45. > :31:50.Low self-esteem, money issues, loneliness. It's all kinds of
:31:50. > :31:56.factors. The last 15 minutes have been intriguing with you. You have
:31:56. > :32:00.a twinkle in your eye? Have I? are a fighter. We have all enjoyed
:32:00. > :32:04.listening to you. Thank you. I wish you the very best for your
:32:04. > :32:14.challenge in life and your journey in life. Thank you for having me.
:32:14. > :32:23.
:32:23. > :32:28.If you want to tweet us tonight : Here is what is still to come:
:32:28. > :32:35.20,000 people here may be at risk of losing their DLA. Is that the
:32:35. > :32:42.best way to make saition to the public purse? -- savings to the
:32:42. > :32:47.public purse? This little graphic here, this is the Government magic
:32:47. > :32:51.roundabout. Why, because two public authorities, government giving
:32:51. > :33:01.government giving the run around each saying the other should pay
:33:01. > :33:02.
:33:03. > :33:08.for vermin control. This story is known as Ratgate! Get this for a
:33:08. > :33:14.ding-dong. There is a scrap going on between two public bodies over
:33:14. > :33:19.who pays to keep the rat population in our suers at pay. -- bay. For
:33:19. > :33:25.the last 40 years the water service has paid the council to lay rat
:33:25. > :33:34.poison in the sewers. Last year, they decided it wasn't their
:33:34. > :33:39.responsibility and they passed the buck back to Pest Control at the
:33:39. > :33:46.council. Northern Ireland Water straight in there. No obligation on
:33:46. > :33:50.them to bate the sewers. The message loud and clear from
:33:50. > :33:58.Northern Ireland Water. We are phasing out the �60,000 a year we
:33:58. > :34:04.used to pay you.. We will give you �25,000 this year and �10,000 the
:34:04. > :34:07.next. The council will not take this lying down. You own the sewers
:34:07. > :34:13.waterboard so you are responsible for the destruction of rats on your
:34:13. > :34:16.land. But when these two battle it out, our furry friends are
:34:16. > :34:26.multiplying big time and we are seeing more and more of them below
:34:26. > :34:33.
:34:33. > :34:43.Every pest controller we spoke to had tales of rats running amok in
:34:43. > :34:48.
:34:48. > :34:52.Belfast buildings and streets. Can you actually see, as the money
:34:52. > :34:58.has gone down, it has already gone down, as that money has gone down,
:34:58. > :35:03.can you see an increase in the rat population? I personally have
:35:03. > :35:09.probably had 20% more calls over even the last few months in Belfast
:35:09. > :35:13.than I would normally have. Nolan Show has taken calls for help
:35:13. > :35:20.left right and centre. There has been a Rattin vestation in the
:35:20. > :35:28.staff restaurant of Belfast City Council. Surely, the last straw,
:35:28. > :35:33.are recenting sightings in our hospitals and childrens care homes.
:35:33. > :35:37.The residence ever the lower or mow have seen the odd rat because they
:35:37. > :35:42.are so close to the river. In recent months the place is crawling
:35:42. > :35:45.with them. Somebody needs to get their finger out. Just over the
:35:45. > :35:50.last five months it must be something like over 200 rats has
:35:50. > :35:58.been captured in this street by one of the local lads that comes down.
:35:58. > :36:05.The other week he put a ferret into a hole into the side of one of the
:36:05. > :36:12.houses, this thing came out and it was nearly the size of a fox. It
:36:12. > :36:19.comes from the sewerage. I have got five caught out my backyard. Two
:36:19. > :36:25.caught in the front garden. I mean, that's seven just in my house alone.
:36:25. > :36:32.I have a grandson. He loves animals. He would approach one rather than
:36:32. > :36:37.run away. That's what I'm afraid of. We videoed one an it'sed it with a
:36:37. > :36:40.stick, you want to have seen them going mad with a stick. It was an
:36:40. > :36:50.adult. What would it do to a child? It would be on top of them in no
:36:50. > :36:51.
:36:51. > :36:56.You know me, I'm tough and brave and hard.
:36:56. > :37:01.# Let me be your hero... # When the need is, there I'm a man's
:37:01. > :37:09.man. I'm seriously not happy about this. Where are we going? Up a dark
:37:09. > :37:13.entry? Up here, aye. # I can be your hero, baby... #
:37:13. > :37:23.I really don't like up here at all. I don't care if there is a rat or
:37:23. > :37:25.
:37:25. > :37:28.no rat up here. I don't like up here. I think I hear something. Oh,
:37:29. > :37:38.sweetmamma. There's rats there. That is, obviously, rats have been
:37:39. > :37:41.
:37:41. > :37:45.moving here. I bet Gregory is not crying about how much I earn now,
:37:45. > :37:55.out in the night trying to find rats. They are more afraid of me
:37:55. > :37:55.
:37:55. > :38:05.than I am of them. They are more afraid of me than I am of them.
:38:05. > :38:13.Ahh! NO! Over the next 24-hours the Nolan team look down manholes. Up
:38:13. > :38:21.enteries. Under floorboards. Now, look what turned up under the
:38:21. > :38:26.floors of a very well-known public building. This rat, outside a
:38:26. > :38:36.couple of busy city centre restaurants. High profile, you will
:38:36. > :38:39.
:38:39. > :38:44.Rats love drains in this condition, full of nooks to breeds. When they
:38:44. > :38:49.are all clogged up, there's plenty to eat.
:38:49. > :38:56.# It's a rat trap, and you've been caught #
:38:56. > :39:01.If you don't like poison in the sewers, you will get more rats,
:39:01. > :39:11.they then go on to our streets and houses. The question is, which is
:39:11. > :39:14.
:39:14. > :39:19.Well, what is going on? Do you want to know what is going on, ladies
:39:19. > :39:27.and gentlemen? You bet we do. Let's hear from the Belfast City Council.
:39:27. > :39:32.Please welcome councillor Pat McCarthy. Good to see you.
:39:32. > :39:36.APPLAUSE What's going on? Well, June of last
:39:36. > :39:44.year we received a letter from Northern Ireland Water saying that
:39:44. > :39:50.they were terminating the contract to bit the suers, we had this
:39:50. > :39:55.contract for 40 odd years it was at a cost of �59,000 a year in which
:39:55. > :40:00.we baited over 16,000 man holes in the city to try and keep the rat
:40:00. > :40:04.problem under control. Basically, you lot are saying, that NI Water
:40:04. > :40:08.should pay for it. NI Water are saying you should pay for. It while
:40:08. > :40:12.this is going on, the rat population has gone up. The baiting
:40:12. > :40:17.is not happening as it should happen, right? The baiting is
:40:17. > :40:23.happening. Not as much as it was? It is, Stephen. We are baiting it
:40:23. > :40:28.up to the price of �25,000, which they said they would pay us this
:40:28. > :40:33.year. We will continue to... Investment was at �60,000? It was
:40:33. > :40:39.at �59,000. Then they said they were going to stop it completely.
:40:39. > :40:45.We objected. They said, we're cutting it down to �25,000 for this
:40:45. > :40:50.year and then next year they are cutting it to �10,000 and then
:40:50. > :41:00.stopping. Is Belfast City Council going to pay �60,000, the level it
:41:00. > :41:02.
:41:02. > :41:11.has always been? Under the mice destruction act... Pat Please.
:41:11. > :41:15.you know how terrified I am of this? I'm sure a lot of people in
:41:15. > :41:19.the audience would be too. You're winding me up!
:41:19. > :41:24.APPLAUSE These are ones we caught earlier.
:41:24. > :41:30.Oh, right! It's great you are all clapping. Let's just see who
:41:30. > :41:38.clapped the loudest there now. Where are we going here? Never seen
:41:38. > :41:44.you move so fast, Stephen. Oh, my sweetmamma. What is in that box is
:41:44. > :41:54.two furry things that nearly look lovely. Look at the tail. They're
:41:54. > :41:55.
:41:55. > :42:03.going up that tube. Look at the The not a pleasant sight!
:42:03. > :42:13.something about it! Get it sorted! We have written to Northern Ireland
:42:13. > :42:19.Water. They have written back! We are road to Northern Ireland Water
:42:19. > :42:23.to ask them to meet to discuss this. We have a draft document on
:42:24. > :42:31.sectarianism, and you have asked for a meeting! I earn money in this
:42:31. > :42:40.country asking people in a authority to just do it! All you
:42:40. > :42:44.have to do is to wait to get rid of me! We are as serious issue, we are
:42:44. > :42:48.continuing to debate the Sawers. Anything that we get, any call-outs
:42:48. > :42:54.we get, we go straight there. asked Northern Ireland Water to
:42:54. > :43:04.come on the programme this evening, and this requires a reconstruction!
:43:04. > :43:04.
:43:04. > :43:14.At very expensive reconstruction graphic this evening!
:43:14. > :43:16.
:43:16. > :43:22.APPLAUSE Stop milking it! We July to hear their statement?! -- would
:43:22. > :43:27.you like to here. If alive human beings from many regard as Asian
:43:27. > :43:37.cannot come in, then we make sure that this statement sings from the
:43:37. > :43:43.
:43:43. > :43:52.rooftops. -- if a human being from any place cannot come in. Joe line
:43:52. > :44:02.in and give us a hand. -- Jain end. It isn't fair to continue to
:44:02. > :44:02.
:44:02. > :45:16.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 74 seconds
:45:16. > :45:24.That was so bad, it was absolutely brilliant! Thank you. And you for
:45:24. > :45:28.that statement! Thank you. We APPLAUSE Lots of you have got in
:45:28. > :45:38.touch with us. Please keep that coming in. Here is
:45:38. > :46:15.
:46:15. > :46:23.APPLAUSE Stephen,, appear! -- come on appear. We need a
:46:23. > :46:29.reconstruction! This is what you did not see! This is our floor
:46:29. > :46:36.manager. Why that tape was going out, he forgot to take away the rat,
:46:37. > :46:41.so at five seconds to go, someone said, summer and the gallery said
:46:41. > :46:51.so, let's recreate it. -- someone in the gallery said. It was like
:46:51. > :46:57.
:46:57. > :47:03.go! That was it! APPLAUSE The hilarious thing is,
:47:03. > :47:09.BBC health and safety will have a heart attack! Unfortunately we
:47:09. > :47:15.cannot get text messages from the Orange network, do not text us, we
:47:15. > :47:19.will let you know when this issue is resolved. Our next discussion,
:47:19. > :47:24.it has been estimated that half a million people in the UK are likely
:47:24. > :47:28.to lose their benefits when the disability living allowance is
:47:28. > :47:34.replaced by the press a Independent payment. It is part of cutting the
:47:34. > :47:39.annual benefit bill by �2.4 million and is likely to affect 20,000
:47:39. > :47:45.people in Northern Ireland. A big subject. Get rid of scroungers
:47:45. > :47:55.sitting at home happily living off the State, that is what I next
:47:55. > :47:57.
:47:57. > :48:01.guest thinks, will come broadcaster, Jon Gaunt. -- welcome. Stop
:48:01. > :48:11.punishing the disabled, that is what Donna Dawson is here to
:48:11. > :48:12.
:48:12. > :48:17.propose. You know better, Jon Gaunt than the people that are taking
:48:17. > :48:21.benefits, than to call them scroungers, because many of them
:48:21. > :48:26.deserve them. Not all people on benefits are scroungers, but
:48:26. > :48:30.undoubtedly, there are some people swinging the lead, and we need to
:48:30. > :48:36.look at austerity in every area, and when you look at the living
:48:36. > :48:40.allowance, people are put on it and never get taken off. 70 % are never
:48:40. > :48:44.taken off. The need to assess that because people with real
:48:44. > :48:49.disabilities and real problems do not get the help they require.
:48:49. > :48:56.William Hague has said across the water that of somebody loses a limb,
:48:56. > :49:03.that does not necessarily mean that they are entitled to the allowance.
:49:03. > :49:08.Yes, it is all about disability, he does not mean that you can always
:49:08. > :49:12.get about. I had a radio producer that was completely blind and he
:49:12. > :49:17.did not take The DLA because he could get around, he did not need
:49:17. > :49:21.it. People think it is their right to have it, and everyone takes it.
:49:21. > :49:25.It needs to be looked in a different way. It is the same with
:49:25. > :49:30.incapacity benefit, there are too many people on it, and 80 % of
:49:30. > :49:34.people on this could actually work. They are not incapacitated. I would
:49:35. > :49:38.not disagree that every benefit system could do with restructuring
:49:38. > :49:42.and looking at more closely, but this present campaign by the
:49:42. > :49:46.Government is nothing more than a cynical attempt to balance their
:49:46. > :49:53.books on the backs of society's most vulnerable members. It is
:49:53. > :49:57.about saving money. Bass said a target. They say they want to save
:49:57. > :50:01.�2 billion. When you said a campaign within a matter of money,
:50:01. > :50:05.you will reach that goal a matter what stands you take. By the same
:50:06. > :50:10.token, you're prejudice to those people with disability, it is like
:50:10. > :50:14.saying, do they take sugar? When you talk about people with a
:50:14. > :50:18.disability, you treat them differently, they are not, they are
:50:18. > :50:23.equal but different. You have to remove this benefit culture
:50:23. > :50:29.ideology that this country is under at the moment. Not enough money in
:50:29. > :50:33.the pot! I understand that. But if you make a cost effective campaign,
:50:33. > :50:38.they did not set out St lets how you help the disabled and save
:50:38. > :50:45.money? We are saying, we will save money and this is a cost-cutting
:50:45. > :50:54.exercise. Let's look through some of the text messages. You can call
:50:54. > :50:59.us tonight. The proposed changes would exclude assessment process.
:50:59. > :51:04.Nothing wrong with that? There would be two components, linked
:51:04. > :51:09.activities, eligibility will be based on the Independent ability to
:51:09. > :51:14.get around? Anything wrong with that? As long as it is judged
:51:14. > :51:20.fairly. You cannot say that because a man as they prepare sickling but
:51:20. > :51:26.they are perfectly fine. -- you cannot say that because somebody
:51:26. > :51:31.has a prosthetic limb that they are absolutely fine. The problem is,
:51:31. > :51:34.the way to structure its now, they rushed ahead and said people with a
:51:34. > :51:40.disability have to wait six months before they can even claim. There
:51:40. > :51:44.was soon much the Rory about that that they backed off. People in
:51:44. > :51:51.residential homes can no longer have disability allowance, that had
:51:51. > :51:56.to be backed down on. They hired private companies to monitor people.
:51:56. > :52:00.People are motivated to get people off benefit! That is not the way to
:52:00. > :52:10.do it! You will both be in trouble tonight if Monica doesn't get in,
:52:10. > :52:11.
:52:11. > :52:16.Monica Wilson. Can I say, Peter White, I presume, is your producer.
:52:16. > :52:22.The. A private Makis, people have to apply, you can choose if you
:52:22. > :52:26.apply or not. -- the point I would make years. Let's start with the
:52:26. > :52:30.press will independence payment, for example, be using a number of
:52:30. > :52:35.components and one of them is being able to cook, make a meal and to
:52:35. > :52:38.look after yourself, and so they say you can make a meal in a
:52:38. > :52:43.microwave. They do not say you can think about what you want to eat,
:52:43. > :52:50.but you can prepare your food, and you can use and of them and plan a
:52:50. > :53:00.menu. So, what they're doing his, they are restricting. Nothing has
:53:00. > :53:00.
:53:00. > :53:05.to change. He went to carry on why the world changes? He were talking
:53:05. > :53:09.about the small details. If you look out these benefits, Stephen is
:53:09. > :53:14.correct, people need to be reviewed so the people in greatest need will
:53:14. > :53:19.get it. The same with incapacity benefit, how can you live with an
:53:19. > :53:29.idea about 80 % of the pot that are in incapacity benefit to met Peter
:53:29. > :53:37.be on it. I am fed up of paying for scroungers! So many people want to
:53:37. > :53:44.talk about this. Let's bring in line to, Deborah, you have had it
:53:44. > :53:48.taken off the? Yes, one year ago this month. Why? They called me
:53:48. > :53:53.into the tribunal and put me through health. I took a friend
:53:53. > :54:02.with me that has qualified as a solicitor last year. She did a lot
:54:02. > :54:08.of work, so she came with me and we came out and buy a friend said that
:54:08. > :54:13.it was bloody horrendous. Tell people what the condition is that
:54:13. > :54:18.you had? Ahead bowel cancer, so why did not have a small bar, so my
:54:18. > :54:24.life revolved around the toilet. I can be on the toilet all night and
:54:24. > :54:32.day, so I am not employable. had bowel cancer and a to cure de
:54:32. > :54:36.la of few? Yes. What do you say to that lady sitting at home? And I
:54:36. > :54:43.cannot comment on that, that individual case, all I can say is,
:54:43. > :54:48.and I feel for her, just the basic facts, most people on De La are
:54:48. > :54:54.never taken off it. That is fundamentally wrong. That lady
:54:54. > :54:59.might need it. Incapacity benefit, 80 % of people, 40 % go back to
:54:59. > :55:04.work. We would have a lot better society of free kicks these people
:55:04. > :55:09.out of bed and got them back to work because they did get respect!
:55:09. > :55:19.It is to have people that want to work! We do not take it off
:55:19. > :55:20.
:55:20. > :55:30.everybody! I am talking over you because you told over everybody
:55:30. > :55:38.
:55:38. > :55:43.else! Chief executive, Massa,? think you're oversimplifying an
:55:43. > :55:48.extremely complex thing with people with mental health difficulties. A
:55:48. > :55:56.lot to be both mental health difficulties are on this DLA. I
:55:56. > :56:02.work as an advocate with people that are facing reassessment of
:56:02. > :56:12.their DLA. They may be hanging on to recovery or even their sanity by
:56:12. > :56:12.
:56:12. > :56:16.a fingernail. Do not shut me down. Let me speak. Sometimes when they
:56:16. > :56:23.come into us, there are too afraid to open the brown envelope because
:56:23. > :56:28.it is from a The DLA and they want somebody with them. They are
:56:28. > :56:32.convinced. That is true in some places, but some people are
:56:32. > :56:40.swinging the lead when it comes to depression and mental illness.
:56:40. > :56:48.They're using it as a new form of getting enhanced benefits. That
:56:48. > :56:58.makes no difference to people with real disability! Go ahead. It John,
:56:58. > :57:01.your attitude stinks. If you're a real gentleman and
:57:01. > :57:11.showed some respect and let these people to speak and stop talking
:57:11. > :57:13.
:57:13. > :57:17.them down, it would do you the world of good! Second row here.
:57:17. > :57:25.This is paid out to the public purse, what about last year, Trans
:57:25. > :57:35.link, 85 % in the red, lost out to the public purse. This is a
:57:35. > :57:36.
:57:36. > :57:39.different story. This was paid out to people on disability. I said
:57:39. > :57:42.they were too many people scrounging, I did not say that
:57:42. > :57:47.everybody with a disability is doing that. I said people are
:57:47. > :57:57.getting away with it and there must be blasts a man said these people
:57:57. > :57:57.
:57:57. > :58:00.because the percentages are doing so much. Go ahead. Picking and
:58:00. > :58:05.vulnerable people will be the end of society. He wants to pick on
:58:05. > :58:12.people that do not deserve the benefit. People that have lost a
:58:12. > :58:16.limb, they deserve benefits. Even if they can get around and work?
:58:16. > :58:22.What servers are you doing to people if you can live on a life of