:00:35. > :00:40.Hello there. Hello and welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Just to make
:00:40. > :00:45.sure, just to make sure I've got this right. It's 10.35pm, we are
:00:45. > :00:50.live on BBC One, aren't we, ladies and gentlemen?
:00:50. > :00:54.APPLAUSE We are. Thank you for joining us.
:00:54. > :01:04.Here's what's coming up a row over the appointment of a republican
:01:04. > :01:10.once on Britain's most wanted list to sit on a victims' forum. We talk
:01:10. > :01:17.about life has thrown at Barry McGuigan since his famous win. How
:01:17. > :01:24.can a 19-year-old get to 63 stone? Do you have much sympathy for her.
:01:24. > :01:27.Should obese people wise up and sort themselves out? I will not be
:01:27. > :01:37.passing that one, will I ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us.
:01:37. > :01:59.
:01:59. > :02:06.Now, she was once on Britain's most wanted list accused of IRA murders,
:02:06. > :02:09.aterplted murders and firearms offences. She was never convicted.
:02:09. > :02:13.Evelyn Glenn-homes has been choosen to sit on a forum representing
:02:13. > :02:17.terrorist victims in Northern Ireland. Unionists are outraged
:02:17. > :02:23.opposing her appointment. To discuss this development welcome
:02:23. > :02:29.the Ulster unionist party leader Mike Nesbitt with Sinn Fein
:02:29. > :02:32.represented by Alex Maskey and Brendan McCallister. Give them a
:02:32. > :02:39.round of applause, ladies and gentlemen.
:02:39. > :02:43.APPLAUSE OK. How do you define a victim and
:02:43. > :02:47.where do we go from here? Big question tonight. A very important
:02:47. > :02:50.subject for us here in Northern Ireland. I would like you to take
:02:50. > :02:55.part tonight.you will see the details on the screen on how to do
:02:55. > :02:59.so. There they are right now. Let's start. You will agree with someone
:03:00. > :03:05.who is in the audience tonight who is a victim. Janet Hunter. Hello.
:03:05. > :03:10.Thank you so much for coming. What is your view when this news broke
:03:10. > :03:18.today. How do you feel about it? Devastated in many ways because a
:03:18. > :03:21.victim is a person who has been hurt by perpetrators. People like
:03:22. > :03:26.her have been the perpetrators. They have done a lot of hurt and
:03:26. > :03:28.damage. They have insulted and hurt people to the extent to where
:03:28. > :03:34.families have been bereaved and they have been really devastated.
:03:34. > :03:38.Now, they are putting themselves into strategic position where they
:03:38. > :03:42.will devastate families and people again. What happened to you and
:03:42. > :03:48.your family? My brother was murdered by the IRA, 25 years ago
:03:48. > :03:52.next week. It's a poignant time for you now? It is. Ha has the impact
:03:52. > :03:57.been? Let me hear your words? impact on our family was, at first,
:03:57. > :04:01.when my brother was murdered the family fell to pieces. Really fell
:04:01. > :04:09.to pieces. They were mentally and physically devastated. My parents
:04:09. > :04:12.have never ever got over it. The council next week is doing a 25
:04:12. > :04:16.year memorial service for Joseph. That will be a healing point for my
:04:17. > :04:21.dad and mum. They have never got over. It my sisters, there are five
:04:21. > :04:25.of us, and some of us are in different parts of the world. It
:04:25. > :04:28.has just been totally devastation. You have just not killed my brother,
:04:28. > :04:34.you've killed the whole family. We have found it very hard to come
:04:34. > :04:39.back from that. Do you feel forgotten? Oh, yeah, trampled into
:04:39. > :04:44.the dirt and made second-class citizens. It's been really bad.
:04:44. > :04:47.you know why your brother was killed? Because he was Ulster
:04:47. > :04:52.defence regiment for the British Government and the IRA decided
:04:52. > :04:55.because he was a young fella of only six months in the UDR and he
:04:55. > :05:00.was vulnerable, he had no weapon to protect himself. He had no way of
:05:00. > :05:05.knowing they were coming from him. They walked in and shot him. In a
:05:05. > :05:09.room with know windows. One door in and one door out. The cowards
:05:10. > :05:13.walked in and shot him dead. don't want this to be a programme
:05:13. > :05:19.tonight where I'm shouting and screaming. It's too important for
:05:19. > :05:25.Northern Ireland, isn't it? Can you just tell me how you feel? First of
:05:26. > :05:31.all... When you hear that lady? are you doing this programme
:05:31. > :05:37.tonight? To give people like a voice. Let me finish. The full list
:05:37. > :05:41.of the members of this body have not been released yet. I think it
:05:42. > :05:46.would be to give all those people appointed on that body the courtesy
:05:46. > :05:52.of having all the names in the public so everybody who is a victim
:05:52. > :06:00.may have a say or an opinion. Why are you doing a programme. A
:06:00. > :06:06.builder friend said to me, never show a half done job. I respect her
:06:06. > :06:10.opinion very much so. That's Janet. I'm reading on the script. I
:06:10. > :06:14.apologise, Janet. I respect Janet's opinion, very much so. Her opinion
:06:14. > :06:20.would be shared by an awful lot of people. There are an awful lot of
:06:20. > :06:25.people who have lost their lives in this conflict. Those people are
:06:25. > :06:30.spread across the community. Evelyn, who is a long personal friend of
:06:30. > :06:34.mine sherks was shot by a loyalist when she was 16 years of age. She
:06:34. > :06:38.is a victim. He is a republican and active in this society. Has been
:06:38. > :06:42.for a long time. People around the room would have an understanding of
:06:42. > :06:46.the work work that people like she has put Building this peace process.
:06:46. > :06:48.I would say in this programme, without fear, without the
:06:48. > :06:54.contribution of people like her in the peace process, whatever people
:06:54. > :06:58.think about her views prior to that, she has never been the victim, we
:06:58. > :07:03.need to bear that in mind. People like her have built this peace
:07:03. > :07:08.process from the ground up. I have seen her at public meals. You have
:07:08. > :07:11.read some of her public comments recently. She is a stalwart of the
:07:11. > :07:16.peace process. That has to count for something. She is a republican.
:07:16. > :07:20.She made no apologies about that. I'm a republican, I make no
:07:20. > :07:24.apologies about. That we are in post-conflict. It's important that
:07:24. > :07:29.all voice vos She was asked if she would apologise for what the IRA
:07:29. > :07:33.did and she said no? She said she wouldn't say that the IRA campaign
:07:33. > :07:37.was wrong. She did reget that people had to lose their lives.
:07:37. > :07:43.What is important here is that people like her and many other
:07:43. > :07:45.republicans, this programme is focusing in on this one republican
:07:45. > :07:51.appointed to this body. Contingency's a disgrace that this
:07:51. > :07:57.programme is focusing on one person. She has a right as a republican to
:07:57. > :08:01.be on that body. She will make a positive contribution. She is
:08:01. > :08:06.currently making those contributions around and across the
:08:06. > :08:12.communities. We will find out what you think at home tonight. I want
:08:12. > :08:16.to hear from John. Your sister was killed by loyalists? That's right.
:08:16. > :08:23.Pro-British death squad. She was 16 years of age working in a shop.
:08:23. > :08:26.They came in and shot her, so they did. Just like the story we heard
:08:26. > :08:30.from Janet, all hurt is the same. It doesn't matter what side of the
:08:30. > :08:34.community you come from, or where you are from, should you be the
:08:34. > :08:37.family of an IRA volunteer, loyalist, should you be the family
:08:37. > :08:40.of a British soldier whatever, that hurt is exactly the same. What is
:08:40. > :08:48.it? I want to give you an opportunity. Put words to the
:08:48. > :08:53.impact it has had on your life? Well, I was only 13 at the time, so
:08:53. > :08:59.my life is my life. I don't know what it would of been like to live
:08:59. > :09:05.a life without loss and without the... A family unit together. You
:09:05. > :09:08.know, every Christmas was different from 13 on. You know, every time,
:09:08. > :09:14.different times of the year were different. Why do you think she was
:09:14. > :09:19.killed? She was killed because she was a Catholic. Because she was a
:09:19. > :09:26.nationalist. Because there was a conflict on in our country. Because
:09:26. > :09:32.of misrule. Because of a long, long history that we need to talk about
:09:32. > :09:36.in the total, not just in separate incidents. Mike, you were a
:09:36. > :09:41.victims' commissioner before you have taken your post as leader of
:09:41. > :09:46.the Ulster unionist party. What Alex has said there that Evelyn has
:09:46. > :09:52.a right to be a victim. She was shots when she was 16, do you
:09:52. > :09:56.agree? Well, the legal definition would back up Alex's view. What I
:09:56. > :10:01.would say, being shot when you are 16 may explain what you go on to do,
:10:01. > :10:05.in terms of supporting terrorism. It doesn't excuse. It I would also
:10:05. > :10:08.say, what I thought would be wise, in terms of getting this forum
:10:08. > :10:14.together, a forum that's supposed to give a voice to people like
:10:14. > :10:19.Janet and to people like John. It would of been wise to have had a
:10:19. > :10:22.public appointment process. All victims could have applied. Evelyn
:10:22. > :10:28.could of come through that and been appointed. It didn't happen that
:10:28. > :10:32.way. There was a laying on of hands by the Commissioners. My difficulty
:10:32. > :10:36.is, Janet feel this is way, I have come from mid Ulster, a room full
:10:36. > :10:43.of victims who feel the same way, it's rubbing their noses in the
:10:43. > :10:47.dirt. It's OK to say, republicans must have... Who do you define as a
:10:47. > :10:52.victim? Are you going to let me finish. Answer that question, who
:10:52. > :10:57.is the victim? The 2006 order is what I've worked to, Alex. Forget
:10:57. > :11:02.about the legislation. What do you consider to be a victim? Can I
:11:02. > :11:06.develop the theme? Can I develop the theme? Yeah. OK. What I'm
:11:06. > :11:11.saying is that the voice of republican victims needs to be
:11:11. > :11:15.heard at the victims' forum. You don't have to do it with such a
:11:15. > :11:19.high profile and notorious person, any more than you are saying that
:11:19. > :11:26.you have to let the views of victims of the Army be heard at the
:11:26. > :11:34.forum, you don't have to... pick a republican. Would you let me
:11:34. > :11:38.finish? How would you feel if it was a member of the paratroop
:11:39. > :11:42.regiment who fired on Bloody Sunday. There will be people on that forum
:11:42. > :11:48.who are members of the British security forces. You don't have to
:11:48. > :11:52.be so aggressive. You are the one who is aggressive against Evelyn.
:11:52. > :11:55.You want to pick who the republican voice is. You need to get with the
:11:55. > :11:59.programme here. This is about giving a voice to everybody. Could
:11:59. > :12:03.I establish, would you accept a member of the Parachute Regiment on
:12:03. > :12:09.that forum? I would accept people who are on that forum who are
:12:09. > :12:13.victims or who are representatives of victims. If that including a
:12:13. > :12:17.paratroop member, so be it. I would support their right to be on there
:12:17. > :12:23.because they are victims of the conflict. Is that progress?
:12:23. > :12:27.probably is progress. People will feel - Does that make her
:12:27. > :12:31.acceptable to you? It's not acceptable to Janet or acceptable
:12:31. > :12:36.to the people I was speaking to in mid Ulster today. All I'm
:12:36. > :12:39.questioning, I'm just questioning, what is the added value of having a
:12:39. > :12:43.high profile figure verses the number of people put off by that
:12:43. > :12:47.name and feel this process, this forum is not representative of my
:12:47. > :12:53.views, my wishes and my needs. would ban people or restrict people
:12:53. > :12:58.from the forum because of their profile? I'm questioning. A high
:12:58. > :13:03.profile? I'm questioning, what is the added value of that high
:13:03. > :13:06.profile? Brendan? Well, first of all, I can totally understand the
:13:06. > :13:12.consternation that many people in the community will have today on
:13:12. > :13:16.hearing of the news of Evelyn Glenn-Holmes appointment. It's
:13:16. > :13:20.regretment we are in this situation because the Victims' Commission
:13:20. > :13:26.have been carefully preparing for the victims' forum over a period of
:13:26. > :13:31.years, actually, Mike would know that. We believe that this is one
:13:31. > :13:37.the most sensitive conversations to establish, in our society at this
:13:37. > :13:41.time. The appointment of Mrs Glenn- Holmes needs to be seen in the
:13:41. > :13:50.context of the 25 people invited to be taken part in the forum and not
:13:50. > :13:56.being talked about in the media But you have got a situation where
:13:56. > :14:00.the you like it or locked that Evelyn Glenholmes's name is out
:14:00. > :14:08.there. So if the context is important, you should get the rest
:14:08. > :14:14.of those names out pretty quickly. Let me come to that. Just briefly
:14:14. > :14:20.on Evelyn Glenholmes. The commission has a number of duties,
:14:20. > :14:24.one is to convene a forum under law, and another is to work to the
:14:24. > :14:30.definition of a victim which it laid out for the Commission to
:14:30. > :14:40.follow. In simple terms, it defines a victim as someone who has been
:14:40. > :14:41.
:14:41. > :14:47.believed -- bereaved or injured or has gone through a traumatic
:14:47. > :14:51.experience to during the conflict. When Evelyn Glenholmes was 16, some
:14:51. > :15:00.young man approached her, called her names and shot her. Then there
:15:00. > :15:07.gun jammed. A 16-year-old girl was called for assassination, shot and
:15:07. > :15:13.injured, and they attempted to finish it off and murder her. That
:15:13. > :15:20.was a traumatic experience. So it doesn't matter that she was then on
:15:20. > :15:25.the run? She went through a traumatic experience which meets
:15:25. > :15:31.the legal definition. We have tried to make it a representative.
:15:31. > :15:36.did you choose her? From our knowledge of the victims
:15:36. > :15:41.constituencies. Were she recommended by Sinn Fein? We did
:15:41. > :15:46.not follow any recommendations from any political party. It was based
:15:46. > :15:52.on our knowledge of the sector. you come up with Evelyn Glenholmes?
:15:52. > :15:56.We among ourselves discerned who best to approach. Based on the
:15:56. > :16:01.profile? We did not follow the directions of anyone in identifying
:16:01. > :16:08.the members of the Forum. Re- establish a number of criteria for
:16:08. > :16:17.representatives. We wished to create a forum that was a microcosm
:16:17. > :16:21.of the victims' story in Northern Ireland. Mike? I come back to the
:16:21. > :16:28.point that that may explain her career path, but it doesn't justify
:16:28. > :16:32.it. Let me take Mike up on a couple of points there. First of all, we
:16:32. > :16:39.have been anxious to make the victims Forum a place that leads by
:16:39. > :16:47.example in society. We have come a long way but we are still very
:16:47. > :16:52.divided, a society struggling to reconcile itself. We need people
:16:52. > :16:56.from very different backgrounds to come together on a victim's Forum.
:16:57. > :17:00.It includes people who are coming into a room to meet together for a
:17:00. > :17:08.period of two years and stay in the room with people they have very
:17:09. > :17:15.different views to. Not everyone would accept the legitimacy of
:17:15. > :17:23.everybody else's views. I think Evelyn Glenholmes from your point
:17:23. > :17:27.of view would have an expertise in regards to the public and prisoners.
:17:27. > :17:34.There was a representative for that very grip on the pilot form, and
:17:34. > :17:39.yet there wasn't the same degree of out raged controversy. I think that
:17:39. > :17:47.proves that it is the individual and the name that has caused the
:17:47. > :17:53.problem. No one was ever invited to join the pilot victims Forum as a
:17:53. > :17:57.representative of anything. This time round, we were very clear with
:17:57. > :18:07.people that they should think for themselves aside from any party or
:18:07. > :18:07.
:18:08. > :18:12.interest. And how do you feel, Janet? Lock Evelyn, to be shot at
:18:12. > :18:19.16 is a terrible thing, but it is the decisions that she went on to
:18:19. > :18:25.after that. She went ahead and took other lives. She bombed places.
:18:25. > :18:29.do not know that, and she was never convicted of any offence whatsoever.
:18:29. > :18:34.The ones she has been accused of in the papers. Many people have been
:18:34. > :18:38.accused of stuff and then found to be innocent, and she has never been
:18:38. > :18:43.brought through a court. She has never been convicted of any crime
:18:43. > :18:46.whatsoever. OK, but for her to go through that sort of life and then
:18:46. > :18:51.chosen to be on the run from whatever she did, that was her
:18:51. > :19:01.choice, and that was the wrong choice. She should have got help
:19:01. > :19:02.
:19:02. > :19:08.fund herself and remained an innocent victim, but she didn't.
:19:08. > :19:15.accept entirely that there are people who will not accept that she
:19:15. > :19:20.is a bona fide victim. But when you look at the final names when they
:19:20. > :19:23.are published, and I hope they are published fairly soon, because I am
:19:23. > :19:29.looking forward to establishing the Forum and it being done in a
:19:29. > :19:35.transparent way, I think most people, and I am not aware of any
:19:35. > :19:43.of the other names on the form, I think there will be a lot of people,
:19:43. > :19:48.I would say who will represent the broader spectrum. What I do believe
:19:48. > :19:53.is that it is more important for us to look forward on the basis that
:19:53. > :19:58.then there will be more voices of victims around the table. I want to
:19:58. > :20:04.make one point. Evelyn Glenholmes has never has said she went on to
:20:04. > :20:09.be an active republican because she was shot. I just wanted to get that
:20:09. > :20:16.point across. She is an educated woman who has made her own
:20:16. > :20:21.decisions. I think we should be looking forward to the next number
:20:21. > :20:24.of weeks that this forum will be launched publicly, and that for the
:20:24. > :20:34.first time would give a voice to a range of people who have never had
:20:34. > :20:42.a voice before. And I want to make the point. We have not got a sheet
:20:42. > :20:49.of victims -- the treatment of victims right. Those victims voices
:20:49. > :20:59.will be heard. Let me speak to Manea. Your father was killed by an
:20:59. > :21:01.
:21:01. > :21:06.irate car bombing 1990. How do you feel about this? I am outraged. How
:21:07. > :21:12.do you expect us to feel? The IRA killed my dad, and then you are
:21:12. > :21:17.expecting me to listen to somebody who was in the IRA tell me what I
:21:17. > :21:24.can and cannot do as a victim? It is the most ridiculous thing I have
:21:24. > :21:28.ever heard. It will happen on both sides. This isn't going to work. It
:21:28. > :21:33.is the most outrageous thing I have ever heard, to expect me to listen
:21:33. > :21:41.to a woman who was in the IRA Tommy my rights as a victim, and for me
:21:41. > :21:46.to agree with her as a victim. It is crazy. You have suffered as a
:21:46. > :21:50.victim, and a lot of us have. Do you accept that there are a lot of
:21:50. > :21:55.people out in the community who are the report from the republican and
:21:55. > :21:59.nationalist community who would welcome her appointment? I do
:21:59. > :22:08.accept it, but that doesn't mean I have to accept it. I understand
:22:08. > :22:17.that. I respect your opinion. But I can't support exclusion of a major
:22:17. > :22:25.voice in our society. What did you did do? Building,
:22:25. > :22:30.security work. Is that why he was targeted? Yes. Nobody has ever been
:22:30. > :22:35.questioned or anything for it. They expect us to forget and walk on.
:22:35. > :22:43.You can't expect someone like me, and there are a whole lot of people,
:22:43. > :22:48.and don't shake your head. We will not put up with this. I was shaking
:22:48. > :22:58.my head for people like myself, my own party, we're not interested in
:22:58. > :23:06.making people forget the past. are supporting this. I support her
:23:06. > :23:11.because she is a republican. She has never been convicted of
:23:11. > :23:19.anything, so let's leave it at that. But at the end of the day, Evelyn
:23:19. > :23:25.Glenholmes has an important input like any other Republican. Maybe we
:23:25. > :23:35.need to identify appropriate Republicans. No political leader
:23:35. > :23:35.
:23:35. > :23:43.has a job to do... Hold on. Let me finish this thread, please. You
:23:43. > :23:53.said OK to have a republican voice, you're the one who keeps wanting to
:23:53. > :23:53.
:23:53. > :23:57.tell Republicans who will represent them. That's nonsense, Alex. I
:23:57. > :24:03.don't know the Republic community as well as you do, but there must
:24:03. > :24:13.be many people, what about the person on the pilot Forum? His
:24:13. > :24:15.
:24:15. > :24:25.background was in the republican movement. Did Stephen Nolan do a
:24:25. > :24:27.
:24:27. > :24:32.show about that? What I am hearing from a lot of people is that there
:24:32. > :24:37.is a difference between Martin McGuinness as Deputy First Minister
:24:37. > :24:42.and Sinn Fein Deputy First Minister. A lot of people draw a distinction
:24:42. > :24:50.between those two things. You might disagree, but that is what I am
:24:50. > :24:56.telling you. It is not a matter for disagreement. You remember when we
:24:56. > :25:03.appointed Martin McGuinness as Deputy First Minister, to the
:25:03. > :25:07.chamber was going to fall in. But that was years ago. The gentleman
:25:07. > :25:15.here at the front of the classes. Foster respect anyone who has been
:25:15. > :25:19.a victim, it is clear from this show already that the three people
:25:19. > :25:22.sitting around this table have clearly not in any way built
:25:22. > :25:28.anything for the future to deal with the victims and have been
:25:28. > :25:30.totally unsuccessful. Is it not time that you drafted any way of
:25:30. > :25:38.younger politicians with fresh thinking trying to move this
:25:38. > :25:42.forward? What would your way forward be? You can see how
:25:42. > :25:49.divisive this is. I can see how divisive it is and how tragic it
:25:49. > :25:53.must be for all of those families. However these guys here, the old
:25:53. > :25:58.dragons of politics, have failed to move things forward, and what we
:25:58. > :26:03.need to do there is get some more modern thinking people. I get that
:26:03. > :26:06.a lot on the radio show. I tried to give these guys as hard a time as I
:26:06. > :26:11.really can, but I will not have them being pilloried when they are
:26:11. > :26:17.actually here and trying to engage in the process, and you don't have
:26:17. > :26:20.anything better to say. If you have something better to say, say it.
:26:20. > :26:27.They are trying to engage in a peace process with aggression
:26:27. > :26:33.across the table. What has moved forward? What I or milestones? What
:26:33. > :26:36.I'll key performance indicators? You are starting a wider debate
:26:36. > :26:40.about the work of the victims' Commission. We have spent a lot of
:26:40. > :26:43.time developing the infrastructure for the victims sector, working
:26:43. > :26:51.with the office of Deputy First Minister to set up the victims
:26:51. > :26:54.service. People will ask what is the purpose of all of this.
:26:54. > :27:03.lady who said she has been downtrodden and pushed into the
:27:03. > :27:07.ground. What support have you achieved? We submitted to
:27:07. > :27:10.government the comprehensive needs assessment. We submitted to them a
:27:10. > :27:14.comprehensive assessment which for the first time sets out a very
:27:14. > :27:19.careful study analysis of the needs of victims, and on the back of that
:27:19. > :27:23.services are being developed over the next number of years. Service
:27:23. > :27:31.is already exist, but what a needs assessment does his inform the
:27:31. > :27:38.development of those services. Where is John Allen tonight? John,
:27:38. > :27:44.tell me about your son. My son was murdered in November 2003 by the
:27:44. > :27:48.UVF. I am sitting here tonight from the Unionist background, and I
:27:48. > :27:53.never thought I would see the day that I would be agreeing with
:27:53. > :28:02.someone from Sinn Fein. Evelyn Glenholmes has not been convicted
:28:02. > :28:05.of any crime. Yet the murderers who murdered my son and the spokes
:28:06. > :28:11.people in the DUP can be elected on to the police board, and I don't
:28:11. > :28:14.hear any of our police -- politicians complain about that.
:28:14. > :28:24.And yet Mike can complain about Evelyn Glenholmes and hasn't been
:28:24. > :28:27.I have questioned the added value of Evelyn Glenholmes. You can see
:28:27. > :28:32.it has caused offence to others. When you say you are questioning,
:28:32. > :28:40.it does that mean you have no position on it? I'm being generous.
:28:40. > :28:43.I'm saying what is the added value. Are you undecided or or for it?
:28:43. > :28:46.trying to say persuade me of this. There are probably tens of
:28:46. > :28:51.thousands, certainly thousands, quiet, innocent, unheard of victims.
:28:51. > :28:56.They are saying, why is this process, what is this process doing
:28:56. > :28:59.for me? They are looking for signs. The sign that Evelyn Glenholmes has
:28:59. > :29:04.been appointed... You see, but with all due respect you are a leader
:29:04. > :29:08.now, leaders give leadership. Leaders have positions. Do you
:29:08. > :29:13.support Evelyn Glenholmes being in this forum or are you against it?
:29:13. > :29:18.Well, if you are asking me simply to reflect the views I've been
:29:18. > :29:24.hearing today ool I would be against it. I'm asking what your
:29:25. > :29:28.view is. The leadership I'm giving is persuade me. Persuade me what is
:29:28. > :29:32.the added value of having Evelyn Glenholmes on this forum when the
:29:32. > :29:36.cost is clear. If people are saying, if that is the way it is this
:29:36. > :29:45.process isn't for me. I'm a victim. I'm an innocent victim. I never
:29:45. > :29:50.went looking for trouble. I got injured. When you talk about,
:29:50. > :29:58."Innocent "victims, do you distinguish between someone -
:29:58. > :30:03.course. Have you to distinguish - For the forum. Thomas Bigley
:30:03. > :30:08.planted a bomb and killed Alan McBride's wife. They would qualify
:30:08. > :30:15.as victims. They are not the same. One went out to do damage, the
:30:15. > :30:19.other was innocently going about doing their damage. As Alan McBried
:30:19. > :30:24.says the two mothers have needs. can talk to him tonight, he is on
:30:24. > :30:27.the phone. Good evening. What is your view on Evelyn Glenholmes?
:30:27. > :30:31.think it's unfortunate this story has broken in the way it has. I
:30:31. > :30:35.mean, at the end of the day, republicans have been sitting in
:30:35. > :30:40.discussions with all sorts of people for many years. I don't see
:30:40. > :30:43.this as being any different. The criteria for being on the victims'
:30:43. > :30:48.forum is that you have to be a victim. From what I heard tonight,
:30:49. > :30:52.Evelyn Glenholmes was a victim. The forum members haven't raised it as
:30:52. > :30:56.an issue. They have met on a residential. I have met with
:30:56. > :31:00.several of them. I haven't heard anyone who came back to me and told
:31:00. > :31:04.me stories, she is horrible she is on this forum. I think it's the
:31:05. > :31:10.media in many respects who has actually created this big question.
:31:10. > :31:12.So, for me, the people on that forum, they are sitting down and
:31:12. > :31:17.having discussions with people like Glenholmes will question why they
:31:17. > :31:22.are on the forum. Not because they are uncomfortable with it but
:31:22. > :31:27.because it has been raised as an issue and people will ask questions
:31:27. > :31:32.about them. It's unfortunate the story has broken in this way. It
:31:32. > :31:37.has. Now, we have to deal with. It I think the Commission probable
:31:37. > :31:41.need to release the names of the forum numbers as soon as possible.
:31:41. > :31:44.One of the questions I would have is questioning the wisdom of
:31:44. > :31:49.putting together a forum at a time when whenever the Commission itself
:31:49. > :31:55.is under some, sort of... It's not certain of its future, in terms of
:31:56. > :32:00.who is going to be the next... you distinguish between victims? Do
:32:00. > :32:05.you lend the word, "Innocent" to victims. There is another way of
:32:05. > :32:11.looking at a hierarchy of victims. Mike is right.he quoted me
:32:11. > :32:17.correctly. I never put myself on the same page as the innocent woman
:32:17. > :32:21.going about her business and her son murdered my wife. We would
:32:21. > :32:29.never agree we are victims in the same way. The most important thing
:32:29. > :32:36.is the needs of the victims. I totally respect Mrs Begley's right
:32:36. > :32:43.to have the help she needs. She lost her son. The bomb killed my
:32:43. > :32:46.wife. We both have needs. Those needs have to be met. The issue of
:32:46. > :32:51.a hierarchy. Let's park it. We will never agree. The most important
:32:51. > :32:56.thing is the needs of victims and making sure those needs are best
:32:56. > :32:59.served. Yes, sir. A few points that confused me as a member of the
:32:59. > :33:05.public on hearing this news today. I would like to know how that
:33:05. > :33:10.Commission was set up? Did you go to other models in the World, such
:33:10. > :33:13.as South Africa, which comes to mind right away. If we don't get
:33:13. > :33:17.bogged down in the past too much. I respect the views of all the
:33:17. > :33:22.victims here and people who feel they have been victimised, surely
:33:22. > :33:28.the people on this forum should put aside their party political
:33:28. > :33:32.viewpoint and see them selves in a democratic society and be willing
:33:32. > :33:37.to go forward with democracy at the forefront rather than a political
:33:37. > :33:40.label. How would the gentleman respond to that? First of all, I
:33:40. > :33:44.welcome your observation. I have to inform you, this isn't the first
:33:44. > :33:48.time that we have done this. We wanted to be very careful about
:33:48. > :33:55.setting up a forum for victims of the Troubles. Including in that
:33:55. > :34:00.forum people from very different backgrounds. And, therefore, from
:34:00. > :34:04.2009 to 2010 we ran a pilot version of the forum and brought in the
:34:04. > :34:09.same range of people we intend to invite into this forum. One person
:34:10. > :34:14.during that year resigned from the forum because her son was in a
:34:14. > :34:18.serious accident. Did you follow a model from somewhere else in the
:34:18. > :34:21.world? We designed a model that fits Northern Ireland. Is it fair
:34:21. > :34:27.to me to suggest that you are trying to do here, and what Sinn
:34:27. > :34:32.Fein wants to do, is to have people who were in the IRA on exactly the
:34:32. > :34:36.same level definition of a victim as someone who was not part of any
:34:36. > :34:40.armed group what so ever? Is that what you're trying to do? I believe
:34:40. > :34:44.anybody who lost their life as part of this conflict has been a victim.
:34:44. > :34:48.There can be no hierarchy of victims. If someone held a gun in
:34:48. > :34:52.their hand is on the same level - You have to ask yourself why some
:34:52. > :34:56.young people do that. Is someone who choose to hold a gun in their
:34:56. > :35:01.han hand, for whatever reason, on exactly the same level as someone
:35:01. > :35:04.who was in Belfast city centre and was blown up? Well, obviously,
:35:04. > :35:08.every victim is different and every family will take their own
:35:08. > :35:13.particular circumstances as their absolute priority. Why would they
:35:13. > :35:16.not? I don't believe - Do you think they are on the same level?
:35:17. > :35:21.believe they are on the is a same level.we could have a history
:35:21. > :35:26.lesson tonight lfplt is no point in doing that. I believe the big
:35:26. > :35:29.challenge here is, the tough challenge that faces the members of
:35:29. > :35:33.the forum, from whatever backgrounds they come from, I'm
:35:33. > :35:36.confident there are a lot of people on that platform or forum I may not
:35:36. > :35:40.like. That is neither here nor there. I wish them well. They have
:35:40. > :35:45.a hard job to do working together, trying to work out the voices of
:35:45. > :35:53.victims from all parts of our society. Let me speak. I wish them
:35:53. > :35:56.well. Let me speak to Jude White. Your mum, tell me about your mum
:35:56. > :36:00.Margaret? In the context of this debate, my story is no different
:36:01. > :36:05.than many of the stories from your audience tonight. With the greatest
:36:05. > :36:11.respect, I mean she really isn't the issue. Tell me what happened to
:36:11. > :36:19.her, so that we are clear? house was bombed three times by the
:36:19. > :36:25.UDF, mum was murdered along with a policeman, Michael Dawson back in
:36:25. > :36:29.late 83, early 1984. As a direct result of that our family had to
:36:29. > :36:33.move and the ramifications that go with, you know, with the murder of
:36:33. > :36:38.someone so close in your family. Tell me this, the people involved
:36:38. > :36:42.in the murder of your mother, could you contemplate being them labelled
:36:42. > :36:46.a "victim "requesting? Of course I could. The people who murdered your
:36:46. > :36:52.mother? Yes, of course I could. How? Why? I will explain it to you.
:36:52. > :36:56.The very first bomb, for example, my mother told me to go out and
:36:56. > :37:03.paut pillow under his head. You do what your mother tells you always.
:37:03. > :37:08.When I looked down and saw this young guy with his arm blown off,
:37:08. > :37:13.this guy was a victim. This was an ordinary fella. I ask you to
:37:13. > :37:17.reflect, why would an ordinary fella come to my house? He didn't
:37:17. > :37:21.know me or my family and place a bomb there. What were the processes
:37:21. > :37:29.that motivated him to do that? Maybe he didn't value human life
:37:29. > :37:35.enough, that is why he could never be labelled a victim? Let's get
:37:36. > :37:38.over yourselves here. -- yourselves here. These things don't happen now.
:37:38. > :37:44.They haven't happened in a long, long time. Many of these people
:37:44. > :37:48.that, you know, that politicians now condemn are working night and
:37:48. > :37:55.day on both sides of the community for peace. Indeed, the peace would
:37:55. > :38:00.not of been stabilised, in my view, without the help of many of the
:38:00. > :38:04.protagonists on both the republican and loyalist side. This story has
:38:04. > :38:08.now broken. I cannot describe how depressed I feel about it. Why?
:38:08. > :38:15.the basis of what happened over the last two years, you had 30 people
:38:15. > :38:21.in a room. I know they don't mind me saying, all egos the size of the
:38:21. > :38:25.Albert Clock, within two or three months, all of that had hatred and
:38:25. > :38:31.misunderstanding and paranoia had gone and we sat down and worked
:38:31. > :38:38.together for 18 months. We helped to produce the comprehensive...
:38:38. > :38:43.Tell me this. The natural venmon, I use that word deliberately, that I
:38:43. > :38:51.would think would be in any human being, who lost their mum because
:38:51. > :38:55.somebody killed her, how are you dealing with that venmon? How are
:38:55. > :38:59.you transferring that venmon into forgiveness? I haven't time for
:38:59. > :39:02.venmon. If I'm full of hatred I'm useless father, teacher and husband
:39:02. > :39:08.and all the rest of. It I understand the circumstances of
:39:08. > :39:13.that bomb and why that bomb took place. I deeply regret the death of
:39:13. > :39:18.my mother. I deeply regret that that young man was permanently
:39:18. > :39:21.disabled. I have to ask you this question, the audience too and the
:39:21. > :39:28.politicians, are you ever going to get over this? Will you put
:39:28. > :39:31.something decent back into society? I'm not asking you to forget your
:39:31. > :39:36.loved ones. I'm asking you to understand the context of all of
:39:36. > :39:40.this is now gone. People worked night and day to make this peace
:39:40. > :39:43.happen. What this forum is about is about something special, it's about
:39:43. > :39:47.people who have been affected by this. It's about people, in my view
:39:47. > :39:50.over the last two years, some of the finest people I have ever met
:39:50. > :39:56.much I would never of seen these people ever or come into contact
:39:56. > :40:00.with these people without this forum. You are an incredibly
:40:00. > :40:06.compelling caller tonight. There is a young man just at the very end
:40:06. > :40:10.here. How old are you, I'm asking for a reason? I'm 17. A young face
:40:10. > :40:15.in the audience. How do you feel about all of this? Basically, I
:40:15. > :40:20.think we need to grow up and move on. I don't mean on victims, in
:40:20. > :40:24.terms of that pain will never go away. If we say we won't accept any
:40:24. > :40:29.republicans on, or any members of the IRA onto Commission, or the
:40:29. > :40:32.forum, how can we say, how can we allow loyalists perhaps or people
:40:32. > :40:35.from the armed forces. I'm a unionist. If you could hear the
:40:35. > :40:40.pain in some of the victims who spoke to me tonight. They don't
:40:40. > :40:44.want this to happen? The same pain son the other side. We can't look
:40:44. > :40:47.at it from a narrow point of view. We can't think there is only pain
:40:47. > :40:52.on the unionist side, there is pain on the other side. It may be easy
:40:52. > :40:56.for you to say, move on, easier with all due respect than someone
:40:57. > :41:02.who has lost their mum, who has lost their da? Definitely.
:41:03. > :41:07.Definitely. As long as we have that support there for victims, we don't
:41:07. > :41:12.ignore them, then we still need to move on to society. What have you
:41:12. > :41:17.taken out of this tonight? I want to appeal to the audience aened and
:41:17. > :41:21.to your viewers. I'm 55 years old. I have been working at peace work
:41:21. > :41:25.since I was 17. Along with my two colleagues I've used every bit of
:41:26. > :41:28.experience I have from my life to design something that is very
:41:28. > :41:31.important, very sensitive for Northern Ireland. I want to
:41:31. > :41:35.reassure you, in approaching every member of this forum we said to
:41:35. > :41:39.them, listen, we will invite you into a room with people you are not
:41:39. > :41:44.necessarily going to like. Every one of them has choosen to do that.
:41:44. > :41:48.It's great that there is a 17-year- old here. The ceasefires are 18
:41:48. > :41:51.years old. He has no experience of. It I would rather be talking to him
:41:51. > :41:56.about the fact that one in five young people are out of work. You
:41:56. > :42:01.can't leave victims behind. Jude, in my experience, fantastic
:42:01. > :42:06.contributor to the pilot forum, but proves you can't look at all
:42:06. > :42:10.victims the same way, they don't think the same way. I'm thinking of
:42:10. > :42:14.Gordon Wilson. I'm a struging Christian. I couldn't be that
:42:14. > :42:20.forgiving. We have to deal with the past. Sinn Fein has a process
:42:20. > :42:25.underway. I'm prepared to engage in that. The Ulster union nest nist...
:42:25. > :42:30.You are opened minded about Evelyn Glenholmes Persuade me. Mike served
:42:30. > :42:40.as victims' commissioner. With all due respect maybe you haven't
:42:40. > :42:40.
:42:40. > :42:44.learnt a lot during that period. Thanks for the respect. You need to
:42:44. > :42:47.give leadership. The issue of victims, as we heard tonight, every
:42:47. > :42:51.single family who has been victimised or lost a loved one has
:42:51. > :42:55.their own particular story. Now, what I take encouragement about is
:42:55. > :42:59.that, even though there are people who may not be able, at this point
:43:00. > :43:03.in time, to respect someone else's right to be on a forum or to listen
:43:04. > :43:08.to their opinion, what I take encouragagement is that we are
:43:08. > :43:11.coming to a new start with a new forum. It's an important
:43:11. > :43:15.opportunity to be positive. To give the forum the fair wind that the
:43:15. > :43:21.people on that forum are taking the challenge on. Give them the support
:43:21. > :43:24.they need support the victims. What sp important is that it's an
:43:24. > :43:32.inclusive forum with all victims. We will include this on the radio
:43:32. > :43:35.tomorrow morning. We start on Radio Ulster at 9.00 am. All the details
:43:35. > :43:45.will come up on the screen. Thank you to my guests.
:43:45. > :43:48.
:43:48. > :43:53.Obviously my thanks to all the people in this audience, some very
:43:53. > :43:57.personal stories tonight, and thank you for coming in. Loans if you
:43:57. > :44:07.have been getting in contact with us while we have been on air, it
:44:07. > :44:27.
:44:27. > :44:36.drives the show, so please keep it Now, my next guest is considered to
:44:36. > :44:42.be one of Northern Ireland's most important sporting ambassadors.
:44:42. > :44:52.45th fight, and nobody has beaten him since 1976... Ladies and
:44:52. > :45:08.
:45:08. > :45:15.gentlemen, he is one of our own. I phoned my mate earlier on, and I
:45:15. > :45:20.said, he has got this really firm handshake, he has still got it!
:45:20. > :45:25.haven't got it up here, so I have got it down here. I lost their hair,
:45:25. > :45:29.so I tried to keep the body in shape. A lot of fighters when they
:45:29. > :45:35.retire, they are so sick of dieting their whole career, they let it go
:45:35. > :45:45.and get overweight. These people who get overweight, can you believe
:45:45. > :45:48.
:45:48. > :45:55.it?! I love to train, and I enjoy working out in keeping fit.
:45:55. > :46:00.often do you train? Three times a week. I'd do circuit training. I
:46:00. > :46:07.run occasionally. I row and two circuits and strength work. I am
:46:07. > :46:11.just going to ask you tonight, it has been incredible career of yours,
:46:11. > :46:18.your own incredible ambassador for this place. Just because of what we
:46:18. > :46:25.have just had, I am wondering in my head, so I know that you are a big
:46:25. > :46:28.ambassador for education. What do you think about that? You are seen
:46:28. > :46:36.across the world. What you think about how we should move Northern
:46:36. > :46:46.Ireland forward? I am conscious of what you have just heard. Have a
:46:46. > :47:00.
:47:00. > :47:07.That girl did that in six days with me. We had six days to get back
:47:07. > :47:11.together, and Erin Bird was brilliant. I am aware that there
:47:11. > :47:14.are people in the studio tonight he had members of their family's
:47:14. > :47:20.murder down through the years, and I understand that, and I have got
:47:20. > :47:24.to be careful about what I say. But I have always believed that
:47:24. > :47:28.integrated education is the very essence of a shared future. I
:47:28. > :47:32.believe that the difference between integrated education and other
:47:33. > :47:40.types of education is they don't leave the tradition at the door.
:47:40. > :47:47.They take their tradition, whether it is a bowler hat Chorus/ -- a
:47:47. > :47:52.sash, they bring it in and celebrated, and they have a better
:47:52. > :47:57.level of sensitivity. It has been one of the greatest success stories
:47:57. > :48:03.in Northern Ireland's history. Even though we are in an economic crisis,
:48:03. > :48:07.I believe there should be an integrated alternative. We have to
:48:07. > :48:14.gather support and Golan lobby the government and get it off the
:48:14. > :48:20.ground. It should be there as an alternative. Do you think we are
:48:20. > :48:23.moving fast enough? I think we are moving as fast as the people would
:48:23. > :48:27.be allowed to move, and they think it is very important that respect
:48:28. > :48:34.people and we start off at the right pace, and we only move when
:48:34. > :48:38.people are ready to move. They moved in leaps and bounds. But
:48:39. > :48:43.living in England where it is a multicultural society, blacks and
:48:43. > :48:50.Indians and Muslims and Chinese and everybody is a big hotchpotch and
:48:50. > :48:57.everybody gets on. I know they look at Northern Ireland and think, why
:48:57. > :49:02.can't these guys get on? frustrates me. When I am on Radio 5
:49:02. > :49:06.Live at the weekend, I think, my heart is embedded in this place.
:49:06. > :49:13.The people here are fantastic and this is an incredible country, and
:49:13. > :49:18.it depresses me sometimes when there is a story going around the
:49:18. > :49:24.UK is another attack, another problem with Northern Ireland.
:49:24. > :49:31.are getting there, and it is improving in leaps and bounds. We
:49:31. > :49:36.are building homes at the city hospitals. We have a �4 million
:49:36. > :49:40.campaign to build two home-from- home facilities where families
:49:40. > :49:45.whose children are suffering from cancer or leukaemia and are being
:49:45. > :49:54.treated can stay for free at the hospitals within what we call the
:49:54. > :49:59.slipper Walk, a short distance. you are an ambassador for that?
:49:59. > :50:09.Myself and my wife Sandra are fronting this. It is a long drawn-
:50:09. > :50:11.
:50:11. > :50:17.out process. A ladies and gentlemen, Just when you are talking about
:50:17. > :50:21.that, you are using your profile to help this country. And I have
:50:21. > :50:30.noticed quite a few people that are carrying the Olympic torch here.
:50:30. > :50:35.Are you? No. I am a little surprised and slightly disappointed
:50:35. > :50:39.that I wasn't picked to do it, but every day I meet people who say
:50:39. > :50:44.that my career as a boxer and an ambassador for Peace gave them
:50:44. > :50:49.greater joy, and that is what matters to me. Why are you
:50:49. > :50:54.disappointed? How ever many people there were, 60 or 80 people, who
:50:54. > :51:04.went from Belfast to Dublin, you would think they could have found
:51:04. > :51:09.one spot for me. APPLAUSE I tell you what, you are
:51:09. > :51:19.not saying it, but I will. Let's have a look at one of the
:51:19. > :51:25.people who is carrying the Olympic torch. Jedward. Yes, the two boys
:51:25. > :51:31.on the right, I am not sure. Maybe I am just jealous of their hair.
:51:31. > :51:36.you would have liked to? The thing that matters to me is that people
:51:36. > :51:41.tell me every day how much my career mattered to them. And you
:51:41. > :51:46.don't ask, you expect to be asked. Did they not think being world
:51:46. > :51:51.champion was enough? It sounds better, so I don't want to get into
:51:51. > :51:56.it. A spokesman for the London Organising Committee of the Olympic
:51:56. > :52:06.Games said the majority of London's 2012 places went to the public
:52:06. > :52:09.
:52:09. > :52:19.nomination programme where Is this guy at a local hero, and is
:52:19. > :52:22.
:52:22. > :52:30.in amazing sportsman, ladies and Perhaps Jedward are amazing
:52:30. > :52:34.sportsman. I have nothing against Jedward. They are good fun.
:52:34. > :52:41.overran on the first item, so I have a limited amount of time with
:52:41. > :52:48.you. What does your future hold? What I your dreams and ambitions?
:52:48. > :52:56.Young Carl Frampton, he is such a great kid... I think we can see
:52:56. > :53:02.this guy's physiques somewhere. Why can't I look like that? And that's
:53:02. > :53:12.10 weeks of the caveman Paley a diet of that gets him into shape.
:53:12. > :53:15.
:53:15. > :53:20.will give you my house if you can The reality is that is a lifetime
:53:20. > :53:25.of dedication, that young kid. He has just won the IBF
:53:25. > :53:30.intercontinental title, it puts him in the top 10 in the world, he is
:53:30. > :53:35.the Commonwealth champion. Coming back to Belfast in September for a
:53:35. > :53:40.big fight, we really want to bring his big fights back to Belfast. I
:53:40. > :53:46.believe he can be a world champion, he is so dedicated and talented. I
:53:46. > :53:51.manage him. And, Barry, he's got a great manager, and thank you so
:53:51. > :54:01.much for being on the programme. Ladies and gentlemen, Barry
:54:01. > :54:03.
:54:03. > :54:08.Now, the shocking story of a teenager, Georgia Davis, who at 63
:54:08. > :54:15.stone made headlines when foreign ambulance crews demolished two wars
:54:15. > :54:18.of her house to get her to hospital. The BBC documentary backing 2009
:54:19. > :54:24.shows George approach to attending a weight loss residential school in
:54:24. > :54:28.the States. She was already struggling with her 33 stone weight.
:54:28. > :54:33.Just three years later, despite losing weight at the camp, she
:54:33. > :54:39.ballooned to 63 stone. If a mother was allowing her teenage daughter
:54:39. > :54:43.to abuse drugs, drink or sell sex, social services would have been
:54:43. > :54:53.called and a long time ago. That is what need thinks. Please welcome
:54:53. > :55:03.Obesity is all about to cry for help. Jenny should know, she lost
:55:03. > :55:11.
:55:11. > :55:16.That lady, 63 stone. You need to have at least some sympathy, some
:55:16. > :55:22.understanding of how someone gets to that stay -- outsize. They are
:55:22. > :55:27.not doing it deliberately. I have some sympathy for her in what I
:55:27. > :55:33.think her mother did to her. She should be in prison because of it.
:55:33. > :55:39.She was over feeding her daughter from the age of five. If you don't
:55:39. > :55:45.say that his abuse against children, I don't know what is. When you say
:55:45. > :55:49.she should be in prison, she has done nothing illegal. If this was
:55:49. > :55:56.alcohol, drugs, social services would be in straightaway, and yet
:55:56. > :56:02.with food, everyone turns a blind eye. That makes me want to cry. Do
:56:02. > :56:07.you have children? There is not a mother in the world that doesn't
:56:07. > :56:12.feel that they are doing the right thing for their child. Almost every
:56:12. > :56:20.mother in this audience will tell you... I disagree. I think it is
:56:20. > :56:29.very selfish. In America they study feeders for a long time.
:56:29. > :56:34.He let's talk about the individual. Let me explain a couple of things
:56:34. > :56:44.to you. What we are doing, which in a strange way is a lot like the
:56:44. > :56:45.
:56:45. > :56:50.conversation we're having before, what we have been doing in a
:56:50. > :56:57.relationship to a lot of problems does not work. An attitude like
:56:57. > :57:03.what you have does not work. And it is very obvious that it doesn't
:57:03. > :57:08.work. And so what we need to do is look at a weight in a different way
:57:08. > :57:13.than we have fears. If you have a seven-year-old child and therein
:57:13. > :57:19.school and hitting other kids and cursing the teacher, they are sent
:57:19. > :57:24.off for tests. Are they ADHD? Is there something wrong? To say what
:57:24. > :57:27.you saying about this child? get into that. We only have a
:57:28. > :57:31.couple of minutes. The fact about weight is that eating too much is
:57:31. > :57:40.often a different way of coping. And that is what needs to be
:57:40. > :57:50.addressed. Find out why the child is doing it. It is not what you eat,
:57:50. > :57:53.
:57:53. > :57:57.it is why you eat it. It is about addressing the wide. So, understand.
:57:57. > :58:03.I heard a great exercise the other day, you move your head to the left
:58:03. > :58:11.and to the right when somebody offers you food. Wise up! And let's
:58:11. > :58:19.actually cut the stuff about this woman and, you are telling me it is
:58:19. > :58:24.easy? I have been three stone heavier. I asked my mum, why did
:58:24. > :58:29.you tell me I had to lose weight? In she said, I owed it you as a
:58:29. > :58:33.mother. My mother is 5 ft 10 and weighs eight-and-a-half stone. I
:58:33. > :58:38.used to be six stone bigger than I was now. My issues with food had
:58:38. > :58:41.nothing to do with what my mother was doing. The weight that I have
:58:42. > :58:46.lost had to do with a different health issue, and I had to have a
:58:46. > :58:49.bypass, I didn't have a band. And what I am learning now is that I
:58:49. > :58:54.have to develop an entirely different set of coping mechanisms,
:58:54. > :58:59.because it used to be that if I got angry, at a cupcake. If I got
:58:59. > :59:06.really angry, I had to cupcakes. So now I am learning a different
:59:06. > :59:10.mechanism. That is what we need to teach people. It is about self-
:59:10. > :59:14.control and taking responsibility for your own health. You are
:59:14. > :59:24.playing the violin, but all I hear his excuses from your side of the
:59:24. > :59:25.
:59:25. > :59:29.The address is on your screen. Thank you for kicking this off