:00:23. > :00:32.Hello and welcome to The Nolan Show. I'll be live on the BBC? A YES! --
:00:32. > :00:36.are we live. That was absolutely awful. I told you to roar that. You
:00:36. > :00:41.are very welcome. On the programme we grab the big news stories and
:00:41. > :00:46.you will give you a platform. And at home. This is what is coming up
:00:46. > :00:49.tonight. Thousands on the march this weekend for the big Ulster
:00:49. > :00:56.Covenant parade but are we any closer to reaching agreement on
:00:56. > :01:04.contentious parades? For God and Ulster, I going to the heart of
:01:04. > :01:12.loyalist Belfast and they don't hold back. What are we sitting on?
:01:12. > :01:16.The Protestant community, you are sitting on a powder keg. The most
:01:16. > :01:20.successful rider in the history of Irish road-racing but Ryan Farquhar
:01:20. > :01:25.says family tragedy and the love of his daughter means he is hanging up
:01:25. > :01:29.the helmet for good. And it has been a national institution for
:01:29. > :01:39.over 40 years but has page 3 had its day? Northern Ireland's only
:01:39. > :01:58.
:01:58. > :02:08.Thank you for joining us. We take the big stories and we provide a
:02:08. > :02:30.
:02:30. > :02:34.platform and hammer them out. Here Up to 30,000 Unionists will be on
:02:34. > :02:38.the march this Saturday to mark one of the most important days in their
:02:38. > :02:44.history. The Ulster Covenant parade will proceed through central
:02:44. > :02:49.Belfast on its way to the City Hall and at Stormont. But it's the march
:02:49. > :02:53.going past St Patrick's church that has attracted headlines. The
:02:53. > :02:57.Parades Commission says only hens can be played as the band Patches -
:02:57. > :03:03.- passes the church with no Moyola supporters accompanying the march.
:03:03. > :03:09.It says no more than 150 people can take part in the nationalist
:03:09. > :03:12.counter protest. Let's get reaction. Sinn Fein's Gerry Kelly and
:03:12. > :03:17.Councillor Lee Reynolds for the DUP and the SDLP's Alban Maginness and
:03:17. > :03:21.Winston Irvine of the North and West Belfast Parades Forum. Gerry
:03:21. > :03:26.Kelly, we are days away from the parade and this is a time for
:03:26. > :03:29.leadership. Do you call on Europe humidity and the Carrick Hill
:03:29. > :03:36.residents to abide by that determination? I'd do but I do not
:03:36. > :03:39.have to. You've heard Frank Dempsey, who is from the residents' group,
:03:39. > :03:43.and he said there had been determinations that while he was
:03:43. > :03:49.very disappointed and part of the determination they would add here
:03:49. > :03:54.too. Yes, but I do not think this Ms it because I think people have
:03:54. > :03:58.spoken. A what do you think? residents have said that they want
:03:58. > :04:03.respect and they talk about mutual respect and I have heard this from
:04:03. > :04:06.both sides. How you define that and what it means, surely in the first
:04:06. > :04:12.instance it means people sitting down face to face and talking this
:04:12. > :04:21.out. That has not happened and 100 and put the people isn't that much
:04:21. > :04:27.different than 500 people? will... When it comes down to it?
:04:27. > :04:32.150 is what the determination is. And they will adhere to that. On
:04:32. > :04:36.the day. I believe, anyway. And everybody wants this to be peaceful.
:04:36. > :04:42.We must realise that this has not resolved the issue, you said this
:04:42. > :04:46.had to do with St Patrick's Church but what happened with this century
:04:46. > :04:49.manifestation was only a manifestation of what had happened
:04:49. > :04:54.in Carrick Hill because you keep talking about Saint Patrick's but
:04:54. > :04:57.the determination goes from the law -- the Orange Lodge down and what
:04:57. > :05:04.happened at St Patrick's Church is that people have been through this
:05:04. > :05:08.and I have witnessed this with many parades. Gerry Kelly was talking
:05:08. > :05:12.and they have been saying this, there should be direct talks
:05:12. > :05:16.between the Orange Order and residents. Should there be? There
:05:16. > :05:20.was the offer of dialogue between the Orange Order and the residents.
:05:20. > :05:24.The Belfast Orange Order? There were meetings arranged with the
:05:24. > :05:29.parish priest and the parishioners and an invitation extended to the
:05:29. > :05:34.residents' association. With the caracal residents, face-to-face?
:05:34. > :05:41.There chair was invited to come to the meeting. Why did that not
:05:41. > :05:45.happen? Well, I was not involved in these discussions and the priest
:05:45. > :05:49.said he did not want to enter into the confidential and a bit --
:05:49. > :05:53.confidentiality of that. Let me explain this, if the offer is to
:05:53. > :05:56.talk to residents, they tell me that they are prepared to talk so
:05:57. > :06:00.let us have these talks. We can argue about a few days ago, is
:06:00. > :06:06.there any offer to top? If there is, I can tell you that the residents
:06:06. > :06:12.are ready to talk so let us talk. What time? I don't do. You have
:06:12. > :06:16.been involved? You have been talking to the Orange Order? I have
:06:16. > :06:22.been working closely with the Orange Order to win sure that we
:06:22. > :06:27.have peaceful and dignified parades on Saturday. The advice is to meet
:06:27. > :06:30.face-to-face? My advice is to carry on with what we have got. We have a
:06:30. > :06:35.very delicate situation and there was an offer for dialogue and an
:06:35. > :06:42.opportunity was missed. Should they top tomorrow? Let's cut to the
:06:42. > :06:46.chase. What a breakthrough that would be. Wouldn't it? The offer
:06:46. > :06:54.was made by the Orange Order. Should they do this to murder?
:06:54. > :07:03.you talk to the Orange Order, they will be happy for that. -- should
:07:03. > :07:08.they talk to the Orange Order. For some people, the media would give
:07:08. > :07:12.the impression that this issue is the Saint Patrick's but there are
:07:12. > :07:16.Brits issues with the opera Ardowen committee over the last 10 years
:07:16. > :07:22.and we had been active in the process to try to achieve dialogue
:07:22. > :07:26.and agreement on the process and we have narrowly missed very difficult
:07:26. > :07:29.situations because of the leadership shown by the Orange
:07:29. > :07:35.Order and the community workers in the area. We have subsequently
:07:35. > :07:37.followed that up with initiatives are. One of the reasons he wrote a
:07:37. > :07:41.letter about the Parades Commission and said there was a problem was
:07:41. > :07:43.that we were fully aware of the tension and anger building up and
:07:43. > :07:48.we were trying to communicate to people that the politicians knew
:07:48. > :07:56.there was a problem and we were trying to find a political solution.
:07:56. > :08:01.This young fellow, yes? Why was it only now that this is a problem?
:08:01. > :08:06.This route has been lodged on for three years. How old are you?
:08:06. > :08:11.years old. You think this should be a priority for Northern Ireland?
:08:11. > :08:17.Have you got a job? Do you want a better job? Do you not get
:08:17. > :08:21.frustrated? It is my culture. The bands are my culture. And do you
:08:21. > :08:26.understand what the other committee thinks? I can understand where
:08:26. > :08:32.they're coming from but it is my culture. Why is it that this is a
:08:32. > :08:37.problem this year? Why was there nothing last year? It isn't just a
:08:37. > :08:44.problem... This was caught on video and it has become a very big issue
:08:44. > :08:48.for many people outside of North Belfast. There are over 30 parades
:08:48. > :08:51.going past this small republican and nationalist area every year.
:08:51. > :08:53.The residents themselves did not want to bring this to the Parades
:08:54. > :08:58.Commission because they wanted to get this resolved as an issue with
:08:58. > :09:03.police to make sure that braves went down quietly but the sector is
:09:03. > :09:08.an got some great... What Septrin has an? I am trying to answer the
:09:08. > :09:13.question. What happened this year was it became very obvious, the
:09:13. > :09:17.straw that broke the camel's back, and I was there in a for the last
:09:17. > :09:20.big parade, the Balmoral March and I saw the sector innocence of the
:09:20. > :09:24.sectarianism has been there, bubbling away, and I have been
:09:24. > :09:29.talking to police and I said it you do not do something, this will end
:09:29. > :09:36.up going to the Parades Commission. The young fellow when the glasses.
:09:36. > :09:41.Why is a nationalist parade... The counter protest restricted why it's
:09:41. > :09:45.there are 30,000 allowed to march through Belfast? Do you care about
:09:45. > :09:48.the restriction for 150? I don't really care about it but the fact
:09:48. > :09:57.is, I would like to see more nationalists having their voice
:09:57. > :10:04.were not get any say. How do you feel about 150? The residents would
:10:04. > :10:08.have preferred 500. What about you? How do you feel? If the residents
:10:08. > :10:12.are permitted to protest, which they are, and if they do that with
:10:12. > :10:18.dignity and with respect, then they get their message across and it
:10:18. > :10:22.does not matter if it is 150 or 500, they get that message across.
:10:22. > :10:26.Parades Commission got the right decision? I don't say that, but I
:10:27. > :10:30.think the decision was weak in relation to a number of issues.
:10:30. > :10:34.said the numbers don't matter and therefore, if the Parades
:10:34. > :10:41.Commission have restricted numbers, it does not matter? Let's look at
:10:41. > :10:45.the overall decision. Let us see what the Parades Commission decides
:10:45. > :10:51.on 25th August. What they decided was that there should be no music.
:10:51. > :10:56.That they should simply be the beating of the drum. Tonight, they
:10:56. > :11:01.say there should be music. OK, sacred music. Nonetheless, that is
:11:01. > :11:07.a retreat from the previous position. And that obviously has an
:11:07. > :11:17.adverse impact on opinion within Carrick Hill. You are offended by
:11:17. > :11:22.
:11:22. > :11:25.hens? I am not and nobody else's. - - hymns. We have seen them we have
:11:25. > :11:29.seen them being abused in the past and the words have been changed and
:11:29. > :11:33.they used them in a sectarian fashion. Lots of people want to
:11:33. > :11:37.speak and if you want to contact us at home, the details are coming up
:11:37. > :11:43.on screen. Was that Irvine has explicitly said that supporters
:11:43. > :11:49.should stay away. Would you call upon fellow loyalists to stay away?
:11:49. > :11:55.Let's go back to the facts. I have listened to both Gerry and Alban
:11:55. > :12:00.Maginness and they are entitled to their views but the fact is, the
:12:00. > :12:05.issue is centred around the complaint that was put to the
:12:05. > :12:15.Parades Commission on the top that light. A and well rehearsed? --
:12:15. > :12:22.
:12:23. > :12:28.Father Michael Sheehan offered quiet conversations off stage. The
:12:28. > :12:33.Unionist community responded positively to those discussions.
:12:33. > :12:40.The Parades Commission made a determination. I do not get why we
:12:40. > :12:48.are having this around Carrick Hill residents. Because they care.
:12:48. > :12:55.fact is that Father Michael Sheehan offered the chairperson. That is
:12:55. > :13:02.not an opinion, that is a fact. This is important. It is Wednesday
:13:03. > :13:07.night, ahead of Saturday, there has been a legal ruling. Do you call on
:13:07. > :13:16.fellow loyalists to stay away and abide by the decision? You need to
:13:16. > :13:23.go back. Do not go back, answer it. Show some respect. I am being
:13:23. > :13:28.respectful. This is a direct and important question. Let me begin
:13:29. > :13:35.the sentence. The fact is we are sitting here, coming up to the 100
:13:35. > :13:41.anniversary of one of the most important dates for Unionism and
:13:41. > :13:48.for people to say that this is just another parade, it is ignoring the
:13:48. > :13:57.significance. This is not about anybody wanting to go out.
:13:57. > :14:06.Celebrating away from Strait of Hormuz? This is going to wear the -
:14:06. > :14:10.- Donegall Street. This is going to wear it originated. I will urge
:14:10. > :14:17.people to go out and Mark that important day, that is where they
:14:17. > :14:25.need to be. A will you tell them to abide by the decision? They need to
:14:25. > :14:33.go and enjoy the day. That is a matter for them. It is not. You are
:14:33. > :14:38.influential. This is the problem. I will ask it again. Will you tell
:14:38. > :14:48.fellow loyalists, because you are in an influential position, to
:14:48. > :14:54.abide by the decision? Fellow loyalists? They are not Unionists.
:14:54. > :15:01.Define them as you want. You should do that accurately. How would you
:15:01. > :15:11.like me to define and? As Unionists. Would you call on them to stay
:15:11. > :15:16.away? To abide by the decision? think people should go into the
:15:16. > :15:24.city centre, to the City Hall, and enjoy the festivities. That part of
:15:25. > :15:29.the route in question is very clear. My understanding is the Parades
:15:29. > :15:32.Commission has kept out of it, because there was common ground
:15:33. > :15:42.found between the Orange Institution and the congregation of
:15:43. > :15:47.
:15:47. > :15:57.St Patrick's. There is common ground. Let's not sit here in front
:15:57. > :15:58.
:15:58. > :16:05.of an audience and say the Parades Commission kept out of this. You
:16:05. > :16:15.hate the Parades Commission so much... You forced the residents to
:16:15. > :16:16.
:16:16. > :16:26.go to the Parades Commission for a determination. You are sitting here
:16:26. > :16:29.
:16:30. > :16:35.trying to say... You take no responsibility? Let him reply.
:16:35. > :16:41.Twelfth of July there was a huge crowds standing in Donegall Street
:16:41. > :16:46.and the area of Carrick Hill and sectarian abuse was thrown at a
:16:46. > :16:56.Orangemen as they went to go off for Twelfth of July and people were
:16:56. > :16:57.
:16:57. > :17:03.spat at and there was a verbal abuse. People from loyalist,
:17:03. > :17:10.working-class areas, they have been telephoning on the radio show and
:17:10. > :17:16.complaining that they reckon they are getting a raw deal. A few days
:17:16. > :17:26.ago, I went to talk to them myself. I need to warn you there is strong
:17:26. > :17:33.
:17:33. > :17:38.language in this. Another summer gone wrong. Republican rioting
:17:38. > :17:43.after the 12th, and loyalist rioting this month. Now, the
:17:43. > :17:48.marching season is heading into extra time and loyalists say the
:17:48. > :17:54.problems go deeper than what we see on the street. They are frustrated
:17:54. > :17:58.with people like me and say that the media does not listen and the
:17:58. > :18:03.loyalist message is not being heard, they say the Unionist message has
:18:03. > :18:07.been twisted. There is anger which is getting worse. It is important
:18:07. > :18:17.to get into the heart of the loyalist communities and find out
:18:17. > :18:18.
:18:18. > :18:23.what is going on. Blood and thunder brought to you by the pride of this
:18:23. > :18:27.flute band. They are in the middle of what has been happening. Their
:18:27. > :18:32.12th parade has been the centre of attention for years and recently
:18:32. > :18:37.they were among ands that defied the ban on music outside St
:18:37. > :18:44.Patrick's. They will be out on Saturday and live right in the
:18:44. > :18:49.community. What is the anger about? And we reckon our culture is
:18:49. > :18:54.getting thrown down the drain by the so-called Parades Commission. A
:18:54. > :19:01.Protestant culture is being eaten away. The stupid Parades Commission,
:19:01. > :19:06.that is where the anger is directed. We can go on about the decision,
:19:06. > :19:13.what you have told me is that there is a deeper anger within the
:19:13. > :19:20.community. You feel the media is against you. We know the media is
:19:20. > :19:27.against us. It's is against our culture and religion. It has been
:19:27. > :19:33.like that for years. With that in mind, we have been slated. People
:19:33. > :19:43.like yourself. People like me and others whom live and work in the
:19:43. > :19:44.
:19:44. > :19:49.community. No matter what we say, even what I say now, maybe twisted
:19:49. > :19:54.and turned so it sounds different on the television. Do you think
:19:54. > :19:59.people like me get up in the morning and walk out of their house
:19:59. > :20:05.thinking I am going to do in the Protestant community? That is not
:20:05. > :20:10.what I am saying. I am saying the media bandwagon has gone on for
:20:10. > :20:16.years. They are good at it. The republican movement. Sinn Fein and
:20:16. > :20:22.every chance they get, they put us down. I spent one woman on the
:20:22. > :20:30.radio show. She lived on the Shankill. She thinks Protestants
:20:30. > :20:40.are being discriminated against in terms of housing and education.
:20:40. > :20:40.
:20:40. > :20:48.when will there be regeneration? They are pumping millions and
:20:48. > :20:55.millions for what? That is our anger. Where is the money going?
:20:55. > :21:02.Why is it not coming to loyalist, potters and areas. Has devolution
:21:02. > :21:10.made it better? Stormont is a joke. Some of the younger ones here, are
:21:10. > :21:19.many of you without jobs? Lexy. No job? Have you been trying to get
:21:20. > :21:29.work? For two years. Painting and decorating. What impact does it
:21:30. > :21:30.
:21:30. > :21:35.have on you? It is terrible. The EC friends with no work? It is a
:21:35. > :21:45.disgrace, big time. They have let the community down and the people
:21:45. > :21:47.
:21:47. > :21:54.in the community, big time. What will move things for the better?
:21:54. > :21:59.What do you want? We want to live in peace. We want our culture and
:21:59. > :22:09.rights to be respected, that they promised us. Equality, which we are
:22:09. > :22:15.
:22:15. > :22:23.not getting because we are being treated badly. The anger in some of
:22:23. > :22:31.the loyalist communities, it is bad. It is really bad. We are on the
:22:31. > :22:33.front line, as a band. We can feel it. A police officer said the
:22:33. > :22:43.majority of attacks on police came from within the Protestant
:22:43. > :22:53.
:22:54. > :22:58.community. That is wrong. Why with age so that? -- say that? In a few
:22:58. > :23:02.think about what you are saying, the media is against you, the
:23:02. > :23:09.police is against you, the Parades Commission is against you, I tell
:23:09. > :23:19.you what... What does the media show? What the Protestants are
:23:19. > :23:20.
:23:20. > :23:29.doing. The police are scared of them and the Parades Commission,
:23:29. > :23:34.plain and simple. The nice approach, to keep the peace process going,
:23:34. > :23:41.they are winning that way. You say if things do not improve, what are
:23:41. > :23:47.we sitting on? The Protestant community, you are sitting on a
:23:48. > :23:53.powder keg. What happened in Clifton Street, the first eruption,
:23:53. > :23:57.I would say. If things keep going the way they are going on, nobody
:23:57. > :24:04.wants to see violence, I do not want to see these young lads here
:24:04. > :24:06.in prison or anywhere else. But we have to have equality. They are
:24:06. > :24:14.talking about the quality and shared space and that is what we
:24:14. > :24:20.want. -- Equality. Some of you will agree and some
:24:20. > :24:26.will not. There is a strength of feeling. Lee Reynolds, are they
:24:26. > :24:32.right? When they say they are hard done by and nobody is listening,
:24:32. > :24:36.are they right to be angry? Is there a conspiracy? There are
:24:36. > :24:41.significant issues about Parades Commission decisions and media
:24:41. > :24:45.treatment of this important issue. As regards employment and education,
:24:45. > :24:54.there is work on going but more needs to be done. They say Stormont
:24:54. > :25:01.is a joke. It is your party. Should you not be making them by into
:25:01. > :25:07.politics? We have not got them bought into politics, but we are
:25:07. > :25:13.not failing them. We know what the issues are. I live there. Some of
:25:13. > :25:17.those people are my neighbours. They are not listening. They feel
:25:17. > :25:24.abandoned. They do not feel they can align themselves to any
:25:24. > :25:29.political party. I live among them and what I hear in the film... We
:25:29. > :25:32.could give up and walk away, but we must convince them there is a
:25:32. > :25:42.better way and we have to try to deliver things and have a better
:25:42. > :25:45.
:25:45. > :25:52.solution. We have to have better education, deliver housing. Keeping
:25:52. > :25:56.Stormont alive is not enough, delivery is more. DUP began as a
:25:56. > :26:00.working-class party and has the largest segment of support from the
:26:00. > :26:05.working class. It is not there to abandon the people who made it.
:26:05. > :26:11.on a paranoid? Are they right in some of the things they are saying?
:26:11. > :26:16.I was looking at statistics. A report from 20th February 12,
:26:16. > :26:22.Community Relations Council, the share in Catholics of low income
:26:22. > :26:32.households, 26%. For Protestants, 16%. Catholics are worse off. And
:26:32. > :26:34.
:26:34. > :26:39.to listen to them, they feel they This is recognised as being in the
:26:39. > :26:46.worst 10% so these people are genuinely face serious social
:26:46. > :26:51.neglect. Are they entitled to feel that they can complain more than
:26:51. > :26:59.their Catholic neighbours? What issues are parades and identity?
:26:59. > :27:05.housing? I can give you one example. Glenbryn housing, the regeneration
:27:05. > :27:09.scheme began 12 years ago and then knocked down 160 homes and were
:27:09. > :27:14.promised by the Housing Executive to build 100 and the only build 35.
:27:14. > :27:18.The developer has gone bankrupt and we have been left with and I saw it
:27:18. > :27:21.in a community that saps confidence and goodwill. There are loads of
:27:21. > :27:30.people at home wanted to get in touch. Pick up the phone and the
:27:31. > :27:39.details will be on the screen. Hello, Margaret. Hello. What do you
:27:39. > :27:44.think? I am absolutely disgusted at you, asking, are you going to stop
:27:44. > :27:49.the loyalists? You ask the loyalists, are you going to stock -
:27:49. > :27:53.- stop them from walking down Donegall Street. What I said was, I
:27:53. > :27:59.was asking if the Parades Commission determination is asking
:27:59. > :28:04.Winston to tell people to abide by the legal determination? If I was a
:28:04. > :28:08.Unionist and I wanted to walk down that day, not because of the band
:28:08. > :28:16.on the parade, I am British and I think that is disgusting to ask
:28:16. > :28:21.anybody to do that. Do you believe in the law? Yes, I do. That is what
:28:21. > :28:24.is wrong, we do believe in the law. And furthermore, the people from
:28:24. > :28:28.Carrick Hill don't even live in that part of the road. It is
:28:28. > :28:33.exactly the same when it all started off in Ardoyne and
:28:34. > :28:40.thousands of nationalists appeared from I don't know where. I do
:28:40. > :28:47.wonder where this all gets us? And everybody is entitled to their
:28:48. > :28:51.opinion... But, listen. There are families in the future and there is
:28:51. > :28:57.education and health and we're not putting enough resources into this,
:28:57. > :29:01.why, because we are talking about this. When will we get past this?
:29:01. > :29:07.am going to say, do you know what there is in Northern Ireland? We
:29:07. > :29:13.are the wrong sort of people, being unionist. Because everything is
:29:13. > :29:22.given to the nationalist community. Chris Donnelly is in the studio.
:29:22. > :29:26.Where are you? You are from the Slugger O'Toole website. What I
:29:26. > :29:30.would say is what I would also say to those lads in a video clip and
:29:30. > :29:36.my heart goes out to people who cannot get a job and the position
:29:36. > :29:40.therein is similar to the position in Ardoyne and other areas. You
:29:40. > :29:45.alluded to the north there are statistics producing figures
:29:45. > :29:49.regularly to do with deprivation which show that across every
:29:49. > :29:54.indicator of deprivation, from housing to income to employment and
:29:54. > :30:00.education opportunities, the areas that feature most predominantly are
:30:00. > :30:05.Catholic. So the idea that these young lads, particularly the ones
:30:05. > :30:09.featured in that the deal, and some others and Margaret as well, that
:30:10. > :30:13.believe in this notion that if they look over the peace wall, this is
:30:13. > :30:19.some chagrin at Garden of Eden that nationalists are living in, that is
:30:19. > :30:26.nonsense. It would be preferable if people like Winston and Lee, who is
:30:26. > :30:30.intelligent, and he has pointed out he is -- pointed this out with
:30:30. > :30:34.Glenbryn, these important issues regarding housing in North Belfast,
:30:34. > :30:40.which is a chronic issue for nationalists also, it would be
:30:40. > :30:50.preferable... Do you want to talk about that? Margaret? No, thank
:30:50. > :30:53.
:30:53. > :30:57.you! You can call me on the radio tomorrow morning! I will be
:30:57. > :31:03.dreaming about you tomorrow night. Can I finish with one thing...
:31:03. > :31:08.you are as bad as my mother! Winston? There is no doubt that
:31:08. > :31:14.they are deprived communities and areas across Northern Ireland and
:31:14. > :31:19.nobody denies the fact that the empty plates in the republican
:31:19. > :31:25.household is the same empty plate within the Unionist household. The
:31:25. > :31:30.point here is that that disadvantaged situation that those
:31:30. > :31:36.young fellows find themselves saying is compounded by the fact
:31:36. > :31:42.that their sense of identity is being challenged and is being
:31:42. > :31:48.agitated against and there is a very political, aggressive tactic
:31:48. > :31:51.within the nationalist republican politic to attack anything that
:31:51. > :32:01.symbolises or in any way represents any form of Britishness or the
:32:01. > :32:02.
:32:02. > :32:09.Orange Order. Where are we going? Yes, Sir. Hello. I am an Irish man.
:32:09. > :32:17.I am also an Orangeman. I am not north or south or anything. I am an
:32:17. > :32:21.Orangeman. And I cannot go and see that parade because of this order
:32:21. > :32:24.granted that no supporters can go. The Parades Commission would not
:32:24. > :32:33.have had to make any determination if the politicians could have
:32:33. > :32:37.sorted this out between them. could the politicians not sort this
:32:37. > :32:42.out? The people... At why should the people who you employ and pay
:32:43. > :32:51.for, why should they sorted out? Why should they? It is the people
:32:51. > :33:01.on the streets, these cheap communities, they have been stuck
:33:01. > :33:01.
:33:01. > :33:05.together... The lady with a white T-shirt. A few weeks ago I was
:33:05. > :33:09.trying to get into Belfast city centre on a Sunday because of
:33:09. > :33:16.Carlisle Circus blocking my car. The police were there and they did
:33:16. > :33:22.nothing. My opinion of culture is about celebrating and not enforcing
:33:22. > :33:32.identity. Why was that allowed to happen? And the lady with the large
:33:32. > :33:36.top. Where is the piece. What they're trying to do is a squeeze
:33:36. > :33:40.the Orangemen so they cannot walk anywhere. What does it matter? Why
:33:41. > :33:50.can't they put more money end to make it more... People come here to
:33:50. > :33:55.look at our murals. Why tell people how many of them can go to parades?
:33:55. > :34:00.That will never go away. And they talk about changing... Speak to
:34:00. > :34:04.that lady. In my opinion, nationalists and republicans are
:34:04. > :34:09.not trying to do what has been suggested. What nationalists and
:34:09. > :34:15.republicans want is simply respect for their communities by the Orange
:34:15. > :34:25.Order. I went to the Orange Order. They are not getting respect. That
:34:25. > :34:26.
:34:26. > :34:29.is the point. I have seen sectarianism that was given by the
:34:29. > :34:37.bands and the supporters from the Royal Black Preceptory. It was
:34:37. > :34:40.sickening. But there is frustration. You might say frustration but that
:34:41. > :34:44.isn't the way to behave publicly and that isn't the way to deal with
:34:44. > :34:48.your Catholic, nationalist neighbours. You should show them
:34:48. > :34:54.respect. And they would get respect if they let them do what they have
:34:54. > :34:59.done for hundreds of years and walk. Why just not that than have a
:34:59. > :35:04.peaceful parade? Thomas? Picking up on what Alban Maginness said, about
:35:04. > :35:09.respect, it is about respecting each other's cultures. History and
:35:09. > :35:15.heritage. At the end of the day, this band... I think the majority
:35:15. > :35:24.of this audience actually were nodding. Respecting each other's
:35:24. > :35:28.cultures? How come we cannot do that? I'll give you some respect.
:35:28. > :35:33.The band were offended people and apologised and the Black Preceptory
:35:33. > :35:37.offended people and apologised. I was shot at in Newry with the
:35:37. > :35:41.Apprentice Boys and I have had petrol bombs thrown at me. Hour
:35:41. > :35:47.Orange Lodge had to move to the Crumlin Road, which was burnt out.
:35:47. > :35:51.Why has nobody apologised to us? Why is it always asked it has to
:35:51. > :35:56.make the first moves? Why have abided by the Parades Commission
:35:56. > :36:04.for years walking past Ardoyne. And all they do is good punished.
:36:04. > :36:09.Kelly? First of all, I listened to the programme that she made, that
:36:09. > :36:13.shored up, and one of the difficulties and have, because you
:36:13. > :36:20.will find the same problems in nationalist working-class areas...
:36:20. > :36:25.There is no doubt that I could have gone out and made a very similar
:36:25. > :36:29.fell on the national side. That is right and the difficulty is,
:36:29. > :36:33.whether the brain is on the politicians or and the government
:36:33. > :36:40.departments or on the Parades Commission or the media, the fact
:36:40. > :36:47.is the protests have gone against their neighbours. 350 people came
:36:47. > :36:54.out to protest on the peaceline, on the interface. Why blame your
:36:54. > :36:59.neighbour? Hold on... You watch that film. You will have noticed in
:36:59. > :37:04.that film, one of the disturbing things for me, even the people who
:37:04. > :37:14.said, we don't want violence, they said that they were left with an
:37:14. > :37:17.
:37:17. > :37:27.notion that violence pays. Right? Now... You are a former bomber and
:37:27. > :37:29.
:37:29. > :37:33.you are now in politics. People think, does violence pay? Well, you
:37:33. > :37:37.either... Answer those young men correctly. You either have a
:37:37. > :37:41.mandate or you don't. You might have lots of used about me and my
:37:42. > :37:46.past and I accept that. I have my view of that and others have their
:37:46. > :37:50.own view of that. But what I did was a went to the electorate and I
:37:50. > :37:54.said, this is my past, there is nothing hidden, this is what I want
:37:54. > :37:57.to do, and we are in the peace process, we have gone through a lot
:37:57. > :38:02.of conflict and you want to make a better future. And people have
:38:02. > :38:07.elected me to do that. Whatever you think about past, and I represent
:38:07. > :38:11.people. That is about you, what you say to the young men who think
:38:11. > :38:17.violence pays? What to say to them? We must give them a clear message
:38:17. > :38:22.that it does not. An elected representative represents all those
:38:22. > :38:30.people who voted for them. You have to a bit -- you have to respect
:38:30. > :38:35.those people. Never mind me. There is a matter of respect. Gerry Kelly
:38:35. > :38:39.stayed there with a piece a protest beside me and be what 100 yards
:38:39. > :38:48.past them and dissident republicans were throwing petrol bombs at us.
:38:48. > :38:54.Where do we go? This anger, when I went up to that hall, it was
:38:55. > :39:00.palpable. We do not concede that some of that is self-inflicted by
:39:00. > :39:07.the loyalist paramilitaries? The gangsters and the drug taking and
:39:07. > :39:11.the drug dealing and the racketeering? I don't even know if
:39:11. > :39:15.it's done us, but it was there. Is there no responsibility on the
:39:15. > :39:23.paramilitaries? You have just confirmed what many people have
:39:23. > :39:29.been saying for the last number of months. You have a particular
:39:29. > :39:35.mindset, and that is a mindset which is in bed and within this
:39:35. > :39:41.conflict frame of reference when referring to Unionist communities.
:39:41. > :39:49.You categorise these committees as loyalist and you then extent that...
:39:49. > :39:53.Are you embarrassed by being loyalist? Absolutely not but I am
:39:53. > :39:58.unashamedly a loyal Unionist and I wish for you to refer to me as so.
:39:58. > :40:03.Not only are you demonising me when you categorise me, you're
:40:03. > :40:07.demonising entire communities. This is important. This is why the young
:40:07. > :40:12.people in that video clip feel that the media portray them in a very
:40:12. > :40:22.unfair way because you are automatically pigeonhole them as a
:40:22. > :40:25.
:40:25. > :40:30.loyalist Committee Ulster -- community. That is utter rubbish
:40:30. > :40:33.and that is absurd. The fact that those young people expressed at raw
:40:33. > :40:37.a motion does not have to be manufactured. There are real issues
:40:37. > :40:44.and they are real people. It is nothing to do with any legacy of
:40:44. > :40:49.loyalist paramilitaries. By the way, these are people we're talking
:40:49. > :40:59.about. They are not sub-human when you talk about loyalists. They are
:40:59. > :41:02.
:41:03. > :41:10.people. They are not something that You listen to me now. You have just
:41:10. > :41:15.spoken to me and I want to sweep back. This is not a script -- speed
:41:15. > :41:25.back. See the people in that community? There are many decent
:41:25. > :41:34.
:41:34. > :41:40.people. Our community... They are the salt of the Earth. This is a
:41:40. > :41:47.valid question. It is about standing up to having this
:41:47. > :41:57.community vilified. What impact have loyalist paramilitaries had on
:41:57. > :41:59.
:41:59. > :42:05.that community? Numb. Loyalism has been a force for good. -- non-.
:42:05. > :42:10.During this process, it has been a force for good. Who brought about
:42:10. > :42:13.ceasefires? Who helped it to form the political negotiations and
:42:13. > :42:19.brought about the peace agreement? Do you think that happened by
:42:19. > :42:24.accident? What is the next stage for those people from within your
:42:24. > :42:34.community who feel that they... And that there is not a sense of
:42:34. > :42:34.
:42:34. > :42:39.optimism? The saddest question for any is when I asked how many people
:42:39. > :42:44.do not have a job and the hands went up. I thought, how much of a
:42:44. > :42:49.chance do they have? How much support are they getting from
:42:49. > :42:54.Stormont on both sides? How much support our working-class kids
:42:54. > :42:59.getting who need a lift up? That is why I get frustrated when we spend
:42:59. > :43:06.so much time on parades. It is important, but, what about their
:43:06. > :43:14.lives? I get frustrated because we have not been able to move beyond
:43:14. > :43:20.the situation of imbalance. We need to move the situation beyond
:43:20. > :43:24.tolerating communities. This is what I say to all the communities
:43:24. > :43:29.listening to this programme. If you want pick up the telephone on Radio
:43:29. > :43:39.tomorrow, you will be welcome. You will have the details coming up on
:43:39. > :43:41.
:43:41. > :43:48.the screen. Ladies and gentlemen, please thank our guests.
:43:48. > :43:58.There is a campaign to ban Page Three from the Sun newspaper. These
:43:58. > :44:01.ladies disagree. That is coming up. It is four weeks since the
:44:01. > :44:05.motorcyclist Trevor Ferguson was killed while competing at the Manx
:44:05. > :44:15.Grand Prix. The 48-year-old from County Tyrone was married with
:44:15. > :44:18.
:44:18. > :44:28.children. His nephew, Ryan Farquhar, he has announced his retirement
:44:28. > :44:34.
:44:34. > :44:41.from the sport. Please welcome Ryan Farquhar. There is tragedy through
:44:41. > :44:49.this story and you were there on that day when he died. I was, I
:44:49. > :44:57.took part in the 500 classic race on the Wednesday morning. I had two
:44:57. > :45:02.bikes running in the race in the afternoon. Trevor was riding. He
:45:02. > :45:12.was riding one and another rider was riding the other by guy owned.
:45:12. > :45:16.The day got off to a perfect start and I won the race. I hoped that
:45:16. > :45:24.Nigel and Trevor could get on the podium and it got off to a good
:45:24. > :45:32.start until the second lap. Was it on that day that you decided that
:45:32. > :45:41.is it? Did you need time to think about it? Was it instinctive?
:45:41. > :45:46.Whenever we are told... When we were told, the term they used when
:45:47. > :45:52.they told us that he had been involved in a serious incident and
:45:52. > :46:00.he had not made it. It was the shock. At that stage I had not
:46:00. > :46:10.thought about my own race, I just saw the devastation it caused, with
:46:10. > :46:12.
:46:12. > :46:18.Trevor's wife and children. My grandfather. It taught us apart. --
:46:18. > :46:25.tore us apart. Are you all right? Then you quickly decided you could
:46:25. > :46:35.not do that your family. Anybody involved in road racing, it is a
:46:35. > :46:40.
:46:40. > :46:49.way of life. Ie liked it so much and got so much pleasure from road
:46:49. > :46:57.racing, it was something I never thought would happen to me. And
:46:57. > :47:02.when I saw how it could happen to one of the safest people to ride a
:47:02. > :47:08.bike on the open roads, it brought it home to me. There are so many
:47:08. > :47:14.things I have not done with my family, because I was so caught up,
:47:14. > :47:17.it was seven days a week, 52 weeks of the year this past number of
:47:17. > :47:24.years and there are so many things I want to do with the family I
:47:24. > :47:30.thought it was time to knock it on my head. I still love road racing.
:47:30. > :47:37.Those lovely children, was that the determining factor? There is no
:47:37. > :47:41.doubt about that. I am married and my wife has supported me. I have
:47:41. > :47:49.been racing longer than my wife has known me and she knows what it is
:47:49. > :47:54.all about. It has become part of her life. Was there a sense of
:47:54. > :48:01.relief when you said that is it? There is a massive weight lifted
:48:01. > :48:07.off my shoulders, purely because there is no pressure any more.
:48:07. > :48:14.Whenever you are racing bikes for a living, you have to go out and win,
:48:14. > :48:21.do well, to get prize money to pay the bills. The pressure from that
:48:21. > :48:27.has gone. Do you miss it? I will miss it. I will definitely miss the
:48:27. > :48:35.adrenalin rush. I hope that long term I can stay within the sport
:48:35. > :48:41.and help possibly upcoming riders and try to make it safer for them,
:48:41. > :48:47.through information, should it be on track knowledge, whatever, but
:48:47. > :48:52.when it is in your blood, you never get away from it, but I definitely
:48:52. > :48:58.will miss the adrenalin rush. are still running a racing team?
:48:58. > :49:02.Can I ask you a difficult question? I want to understand this. You are
:49:02. > :49:09.basically saying when you look at your children the risk is not worth
:49:09. > :49:19.it. If you are running a racing team, you are facilitating other
:49:19. > :49:23.
:49:23. > :49:28.people to do it, and to take that risk that you are not. I have done
:49:28. > :49:34.it for years and I am in a position to call it a day. It is a dangerous
:49:34. > :49:39.sport. Every rider knows the dangers. There are young lads out
:49:39. > :49:45.there, they are keen to get at it and they know the risks. Today
:49:45. > :49:52.really understand the risks? You have had a personal tragedy. They
:49:52. > :49:57.have not. I will put it a different way. We saw your children. If your
:49:57. > :50:02.child said they wanted to take up racing, what would you say? I would
:50:02. > :50:07.try to support them as best I could. Would you try to put them off?
:50:07. > :50:14.Possibly, but if they were determined, I would be 100% behind
:50:14. > :50:23.them. I would try to make it as safe for them as possible. I have
:50:23. > :50:27.experience. I know how bikes need to be prepared. I know what safety
:50:27. > :50:33.improvements can be made. Road racing is going through a difficult
:50:33. > :50:39.time because of the lack of sponsorship. There is a recession.
:50:39. > :50:45.There are lads out there and there is nothing else in their head but
:50:45. > :50:51.to go out road racing. If I am in a position to run a team, I would
:50:51. > :50:58.like to help them to make it as safe as possible. I have a sense
:50:58. > :51:08.from you that it is in your blood. I can see that dilemma. It is my
:51:08. > :51:10.
:51:11. > :51:16.life and has been since I left school. My two girls, and Karen...
:51:16. > :51:26.The I want to thank Karen for coming into night and Ladies and
:51:26. > :51:27.
:51:27. > :51:37.Gentlemen, Ryan Farquhar. If you want to contact us you can do so in
:51:37. > :51:59.
:51:59. > :52:05.want to contact us you can do so in Next, Page Three of the Sun
:52:05. > :52:10.newspaper has been a fixture since 1970. Calls for a ban on the top
:52:10. > :52:16.has spread is gathering momentum. 36,000 people have signed a
:52:16. > :52:21.petition to ask the edited to stop it. A senior politician in the
:52:21. > :52:28.coalition claimed topless pictures can lead to domestic violence. We
:52:28. > :52:37.are joined by a glamour model. New were a number model. And we are
:52:37. > :52:43.joined by a feminist comedian. What do you think? I think it is absurd.
:52:43. > :52:48.The arguments being put forward by how it causes domestic abuse and
:52:48. > :52:54.sexual abuse, there is no scientific statistics to back it up.
:52:54. > :53:02.You said you did it not for the money. My career choice, not for
:53:02. > :53:12.money. One aide do it if not for money? The cars it is a -- because
:53:12. > :53:19.
:53:19. > :53:28.it is a career I enjoy. Do you do your job for money? Yes. Do you?
:53:28. > :53:32.And I enjoy it and I love the BBC! You cannot be a millionaire in this
:53:32. > :53:38.industry, there is not that much money you have to do it for other
:53:38. > :53:45.reasons. You are misquoting the politician who is saying Page Three
:53:45. > :53:51.is part of a culture of sexism and there is a problem with sexism with
:53:51. > :53:56.two women a week being killed by their partner or former partner.
:53:56. > :54:01.There is a shortage of women in business and politics. What is
:54:01. > :54:05.driving that? One thing is the attitude that seems pervasive in
:54:05. > :54:10.society that men are valued for their business skills, brains,
:54:10. > :54:14.sporting ability, but women are valued for what they look like. We
:54:14. > :54:19.have a national newspaper and inside the front cover is a picture
:54:19. > :54:28.of a half-naked woman. It pushes that idea. It is one thing if the
:54:28. > :54:32.picture is on the top shelf, it is not, it is right there. It is not
:54:32. > :54:38.explicit material. You have to understand it is not really a
:54:38. > :54:42.newspaper. It is like a celebrity gossip magazine. They have items
:54:42. > :54:48.about footballers and who they are sleeping with. There is no
:54:48. > :54:51.intellectual value. If it were the dark newspaper, and you were
:54:51. > :54:59.reading about world economics, it would not be compatible. But this
:54:59. > :55:09.is a tabloid and anything goes. former editor of the Daily Mirror
:55:09. > :55:09.
:55:09. > :55:14.is joining us. You used to choose their own number gulls. I did, yes.
:55:14. > :55:18.-- Page Three girls. I worked for the Sun newspaper in a previous
:55:18. > :55:24.life before I edited the Daily Mirror. The last job as night
:55:24. > :55:28.editor was to pick the Page Three girl for the following day. As I
:55:28. > :55:38.put my coat on and drank my cold cup of tea before leaving for home,
:55:38. > :55:38.
:55:38. > :55:47.I would go through the pictures. I know it sounds like a dream life,
:55:47. > :55:56.but it was not! Is it right? Now you have grown older? I am old and
:55:56. > :56:01.finished now. I need page 3 to spice me up! In it right? It is not
:56:01. > :56:10.right. I would like to see it finished. But we should not have a
:56:10. > :56:20.ban. What about putting it on the top shelf, with that solve the
:56:20. > :56:21.
:56:21. > :56:25.problem? There is a young man at the back. Do you not think when you
:56:26. > :56:33.say it is a gossip newspaper, and you are in it, which means that
:56:33. > :56:43.your worthless? You are making a leap. D not think it is making a
:56:43. > :56:46.
:56:46. > :56:56.mark out if you? -- mug. I say there is anything in it. You can
:56:56. > :57:06.
:57:06. > :57:11.have a human in a nude form. Is it OK to be in a newspaper, yes it is.
:57:11. > :57:21.If I try to do it myself, would there be a problem? Why do women
:57:21. > :57:27.get away with it? Or on second, we have some body hair. Very quickly.
:57:27. > :57:32.From a -- somebody here. I would not want my daughter looking at
:57:32. > :57:37.those pictures and growing up to think it is normal. I have respect
:57:37. > :57:45.for somebody coming to put her point forward. There are other
:57:45. > :57:52.images that are more concerning and more harmful. Images of famine,
:57:52. > :58:02.mutilation. That is a ridiculous point. It is like saying I should
:58:02. > :58:05.
:58:05. > :58:09.be allowed to beat my wife because the man next door stabbed his! That
:58:09. > :58:16.man made a brilliant buoy, young people cannot help being exposed to
:58:16. > :58:22.this. -- point. It is a mainstream newspaper. If you want to see these
:58:22. > :58:26.images, there are magazines. This is what we will do tonight. We are