:00:05. > :00:09.Horsemeat - can we trust what's in our food any more? Is it safe? And
:00:09. > :00:14.how are they get ago way with this? The minister is here to answer
:00:15. > :00:20.questions. There's a row over pensioners - why should they get
:00:20. > :00:23.free bus travel if they can afford to pay for it themselves? And dead
:00:23. > :00:33.for 78 minutes, former Premiership footballer, Fabrice Muamba is here
:00:33. > :00:57.
:00:57. > :01:03.APPLAUSE CHEERING
:01:03. > :01:07.This is a brilliant crowd tonight. It's a fantastic crowd. Thank you
:01:07. > :01:10.for coming in. Thank you for watching at home. We're going to
:01:10. > :01:15.have a big show tonight, some very important subjects for us to cover.
:01:15. > :01:25.As always on The Nolan Show, you at home, important as well to take
:01:25. > :01:47.
:01:47. > :01:50.part. Let's see how you can get in Now, how can we trust what's in our
:01:50. > :01:54.food any more? We were told we were eating beef, when actually, we
:01:54. > :01:58.could have been eating horse and some of the biggest retailers in
:01:58. > :02:03.the country didn't know what they were selling us. Big names caught
:02:03. > :02:07.up in this, the likes of Tesco and Findus. Let's get into what's
:02:07. > :02:11.actually happening here and try to get under the skin of this and find
:02:11. > :02:14.out where we are as consumers. With me now the minister for agriculture,
:02:14. > :02:19.Michelle O'Neill. We have a food safety expert with us, Professor
:02:20. > :02:23.Chris Elliot as well. Minister, we appreciate you coming in. Let's
:02:23. > :02:26.start with the food safety aspect of this. Can you give an assurance
:02:26. > :02:31.to the Northern Ireland public tonight that the processed food
:02:31. > :02:35.they are eating is totally safe? can give an assurance to the public
:02:35. > :02:38.that the local produce is safe. That's the message that I'll
:02:39. > :02:42.continue to promote. Throughout all this incident over the last number
:02:42. > :02:46.of weeks, I'm the farming minister. I'm here to support the farming
:02:46. > :02:50.industry who are not involved in this vaection. It's processed meat
:02:50. > :02:53.that's being discussed, that's at the corner stone of the
:02:53. > :02:57.investigation. It's very important to me to make sure there's no
:02:57. > :03:00.reputational damage to local farmers. You're very much
:03:00. > :03:04.distinguishing between local produce and processed food?
:03:04. > :03:08.Absolutely. Can you give an assurance to the public that
:03:08. > :03:13.processed food, being sold in Northern Ireland, is safe? Let's be
:03:13. > :03:15.very clear about the rules here. At the centre of the investigation,
:03:15. > :03:19.the FSA are leading this investigation. At the centre of
:03:19. > :03:24.that is processed food. It's their role to get to the bottom of this,
:03:24. > :03:28.skpod what's happened, -- skphroz what's happened, bring those to
:03:29. > :03:33.court if that's needed. My role is farming minister. I will support
:03:33. > :03:38.the local farming industry, who are not involved in this. FSA have to
:03:38. > :03:44.account for processed food. Processing companies are
:03:44. > :03:48.accountable. I'll stand over our local produce that's got full
:03:48. > :03:52.traceability. There's no doubt on that. You're a minister in our
:03:52. > :03:56.Government, in our devolves Government. It's not, some people
:03:56. > :04:00.might feel it's not your fault, but I need to ask the question. You've
:04:00. > :04:04.met the FSA today, for example. Absolutely. Having met the FSA
:04:04. > :04:07.today, are you in a position to assure everyone tonight that
:04:07. > :04:13.processed food, in your view, is safe to eat in Northern Ireland?
:04:13. > :04:19.I'm going to continually make the point. Sow can't. The FSA need to
:04:19. > :04:24.make that statement. They say there's no food safety risk. Do you
:04:24. > :04:28.believe them? I have to accept the advice of the Chief Medical Officer.
:04:28. > :04:32.Would you eat it at the moment? Yeah I would. The Chief Medical
:04:32. > :04:37.Officer is someone we look to for leadership. If he sells it's safe.
:04:37. > :04:40.I'll accept that position. I've got in front of me here, a report
:04:41. > :04:44.published in July 2012, because we're only hearing about this at
:04:44. > :04:48.home. We're only hearing about this in the last few weeks. When did you
:04:48. > :04:52.first know? The incident that occurred in south of Ireland, we
:04:52. > :04:55.knew about that 15th January, would be the date when that was made
:04:56. > :05:01.public. You didn't know before January? No, absolutely not.
:05:01. > :05:07.you sure? 100%. You knew in January 2013. That we had an incident that
:05:07. > :05:11.curd in the south of Ireland. That's interesting. Let me read
:05:11. > :05:18.this. I have a document from the receipt naer residues committee.
:05:18. > :05:25.They are -- veterinary, they are an independent advisory committee that
:05:25. > :05:31.advised the Government. They said in July 2012, wait for this, the
:05:31. > :05:38.veterinary residues committee has repeatedly expressed concern over
:05:38. > :05:43.residues of bute entering the food chain. It can have serious adverse
:05:43. > :05:48.effects in consumers. In July 2012 they were repeatedly expressing
:05:48. > :05:52.concern to government about bute. This is a UK organisation you're
:05:52. > :05:54.talking about. What I'm talking about. And your advisors don't know
:05:54. > :05:59.what the British Government are being told. You're loseing the
:05:59. > :06:03.point. I'm here as the farming minister. Put it beyond doubt that
:06:03. > :06:06.local produce is safe. Quite a few of us are eating processed food.
:06:06. > :06:12.The incident involved in the investigations at this time, on the
:06:12. > :06:17.15th of January, we were made aware there was an issue of burgers in
:06:17. > :06:23.the south. Then, on February 1 this year, then we were made aware there
:06:23. > :06:27.was an investigation now started into a company, an ongoing
:06:27. > :06:32.investigation. Are you seriously telling me we're in a situation
:06:32. > :06:36.here where if there's an advisory body, a respected body telling the
:06:36. > :06:40.UK Government, are you telling me there's no chain of communication
:06:40. > :06:45.to Stormont? Nobody in Stormont knew about this. Did anybody in
:06:45. > :06:48.Stormont know about this? Let's go back to where it started. The FSA
:06:48. > :06:51.are the lead in this investigation. It's them you need to post these
:06:51. > :06:56.questions to. I'm responsible for the farming community and I will
:06:56. > :07:00.stand up for that farming community. Well, we tried. We tried to put it
:07:00. > :07:05.to the Food Standards Agency here in Northern Ireland tonight. By the
:07:05. > :07:10.way, the Food Standards Agency in England I had on the radio show on
:07:10. > :07:14.Friday. You also pay for the Food Standards Agency here, a separate
:07:14. > :07:20.body here in Northern Ireland. It's led by this guy. This is the
:07:20. > :07:25.director of the Food Standards Agency in Northern Ireland. He
:07:25. > :07:28.leads the organisation. We asked, there he is, we asked the Food
:07:28. > :07:31.Standards Agency if they could reassure you in this audience and
:07:31. > :07:37.you watching at home by coming into the studio and explaining to us
:07:37. > :07:47.what food is safe and what isn't. The answer is no. They don't want
:07:47. > :07:48.
:07:48. > :07:52.We'll come to that statement in a second or two. They would not come
:07:53. > :07:57.in and speak to you this evening. That is a pity, Michelle. I think
:07:57. > :08:00.so. It's a real pity. Because these issues need to be separated out.
:08:00. > :08:03.They might need to be separated out. It's interesting that you're a
:08:03. > :08:08.member of our Government here in Northern Ireland and people like
:08:08. > :08:13.you and others call for a devolves Assembly for many, many years.
:08:13. > :08:19.still fully stand over that and support it. You now have it. Are
:08:19. > :08:24.you seriously telling me you're a by-stander when people are saying
:08:24. > :08:28.is our processed food safe? saying our food is safe. Processed
:08:28. > :08:33.food? Our local produce. I'm not responsible for the Food Standards
:08:33. > :08:37.Agency. You don't know? No, I've answered the question. The Chief
:08:38. > :08:42.Medical Officer says it's safe. I accept his advice. He's an expert.
:08:42. > :08:47.This document here published in July 2012 we don't know of anybody
:08:47. > :08:50.in Stormont read it or knew about it. You can dismiss the issue...
:08:50. > :08:55.It's up to you. There's always ongoing issues across the supply
:08:55. > :08:59.chain of food. It's a very complicated area. OK. Thank you for
:08:59. > :09:04.coming in. No problem. I appreciate it. Chris, you're a food safety
:09:04. > :09:09.expert. Can you explain to us, just run us through the basics of this.
:09:09. > :09:14.What we have got is we have got beef which wasn't beef. Actually it
:09:14. > :09:19.was being replaced with horse. Horse can be safe. Indeed horse is
:09:19. > :09:24.eaten in many countries throughout the world. However, some horses
:09:24. > :09:28.have actually got bute injected into them by vets. When that
:09:28. > :09:31.happens what the system is supposed to do is it's to distinguish
:09:31. > :09:35.between those horses with the substance injected into them and
:09:35. > :09:43.those that haven't. If there's any Bute in a horse, we're not supposed
:09:43. > :09:48.to eat it, correct? As soon as that drug is administered to any food
:09:48. > :09:52.producing animal it becomes unfit for human consumption. That report
:09:52. > :09:57.thaw refer to by the veterinary residues committee that actually
:09:57. > :10:00.deals with the legitimate consumption of horsemeat. You're
:10:00. > :10:05.confusing that with the processing. That was really about horse that's
:10:05. > :10:08.were being tested in GB that were coming up positive for this drug.
:10:08. > :10:11.What the committee were saying is we need to be careful because
:10:11. > :10:16.they're going into the food chain now. I don't think they suspected
:10:16. > :10:24.at that time it was ending up in processed foods. You could argue
:10:24. > :10:29.it's even worse now? It really was a pointer to where problems lay in
:10:29. > :10:34.relation to the whole issue of horsemeat getting into the human
:10:34. > :10:41.food supply chain. As you refer to, there is horse -- a horse passport
:10:41. > :10:44.system. When a horse is treated with this drug the passport is
:10:44. > :10:47.stamped. What the veterinary residue committee were saying, even
:10:47. > :10:51.when horses were being treated with the drug they're getting into the
:10:51. > :10:56.supply chain. That's what they were very worried about. So, in terms of
:10:56. > :11:01.the risk, what we want to know as ordinary people is, what's our
:11:01. > :11:06.level of risk? And our level of risk is not that high, is that
:11:06. > :11:12.fair? By pure luck the answer is yes. The risk is very, very low.
:11:12. > :11:16.This was a drug that was used quite frequently in the 50s and 60s to
:11:16. > :11:20.treat people with arthritis actually. But what was found in a
:11:20. > :11:25.small number of cases people developed a very serious disease of
:11:25. > :11:30.the bone marrow. Actually some people died from it. Whenever that
:11:30. > :11:35.happened, it was thought that those particular drugs cannot be used in
:11:35. > :11:39.food production. Now, those horses that the drug has been used in,
:11:39. > :11:44.whenever they get into the food chain, the am of drug is tiny, tiny
:11:44. > :11:48.amounts. The risk is very low, but there's no such thing In Compliance
:11:48. > :11:51.life as zero risk. So there is a risk? You can't calculate the risk.
:11:51. > :11:56.In relation to what the residues committee are saying is we don't
:11:56. > :11:59.know if there's any risk at all, so the best thing is let's keep this
:11:59. > :12:05.material out of the supply chain. But it got into the supply chain,
:12:05. > :12:10.so there is a risk, but not a significant risk? It's a tiny risk.
:12:10. > :12:14.So what we're actually doing here is we are relying on criminals to
:12:14. > :12:24.have a certain level of decency about them then. How farcical is
:12:24. > :12:27.this? So what we're actually doing is relying on criminals to replace
:12:27. > :12:31.horsemeat instead of beef, but we're expecting them not to put
:12:31. > :12:33.anything that's dodgy for us into that. Either someone has been
:12:34. > :12:37.grossly neglect or someone has been involved in fraudulent activity.
:12:37. > :12:40.That's what I think we need to have the thorough investigation. I think
:12:40. > :12:45.until that happens, until people have answered, nobody's going to
:12:45. > :12:51.have confidence in the supply chain. That's something that we need to
:12:51. > :12:56.grapple with. We must push the FSA to make sure it happens. Are you
:12:56. > :12:59.confident in the FSA? I'll reserve judgment. Should they have
:12:59. > :13:03.monitored this over many years? think the investigation will throw
:13:04. > :13:09.up a number of witnesss in terms of the testing processes. You're good
:13:09. > :13:12.at ducking my questions tonight. No! I'm answering them. So the Food
:13:12. > :13:17.Standards Agency, it is their responsibility to monitor our food
:13:17. > :13:21.and keep our food safe? In terms of processed food, yes. If there's a
:13:21. > :13:24.cock-up, if I am eating horse and I'm told it's beef, is it their
:13:25. > :13:27.responsibility? Yes, but it's also the industry's responsibility, the
:13:27. > :13:32.people involved in processing, the supermarkets all have a role to
:13:32. > :13:35.play here in terms of restoring confidence. This might be a
:13:35. > :13:40.revelation to you tonight and it might not, just to let you know
:13:40. > :13:44.that you're currently being told by some of these retailers and the
:13:44. > :13:50.industry that you are eating horsemeat and they're apologising
:13:50. > :13:53.for this and saying look, we're really sorry, we decided on The
:13:53. > :14:03.Nolan Show to ask a follow-up question to that. The question was
:14:03. > :14:07.
:14:07. > :14:13.In cases were of meat products have contained horsemeat, can you assure
:14:13. > :14:21.the public that this was in fact forcemeat and not other organs for
:14:21. > :14:31.parts? Do you want to see what they said? Have a look... No, DNA
:14:31. > :14:31.
:14:31. > :14:41.It will not distinguish. Have you been eating horse never work
:14:41. > :14:43.
:14:43. > :14:47.kidneys or testicles? What? -- liver or kidneys. Absolutely right.
:14:47. > :14:53.This has concerned me from the start, concerns about horsemeat but
:14:53. > :14:59.nobody has proven that it was horsemeat at all. It could be
:14:59. > :15:05.anything. Any part. And when you talk about the fact that it has
:15:05. > :15:11.been done and legally, will people put the best copse into rogue
:15:11. > :15:17.products? That is unlikely. If any company says we're sorry, we don't
:15:17. > :15:23.know. The testing just distinguishes between horse and
:15:23. > :15:28.beef. Part of the current food standards agency investigation will
:15:28. > :15:38.follow up on how much make was there and we might be surprised. --
:15:38. > :15:39.
:15:39. > :15:43.meat. Horsemeat aside, are you testing for dog and rat? What else?
:15:43. > :15:52.I must make the point that I am responsible for the local industry,
:15:52. > :16:02.which we can stand over. That is a question for the FSA. Let's ask.
:16:02. > :16:06.
:16:06. > :16:11.Thank you for coming in. Who else have we got?! You are a chef?
:16:11. > :16:18.say that you can stand by local produce. Of companies like Findus,
:16:18. > :16:22.how do we check? That is part of the investigation. But what we can
:16:22. > :16:27.stand over his local farmers, who go through a rigorous assessment
:16:27. > :16:32.and come through so many hopes in being able to put products out for
:16:32. > :16:38.the public that are assured and they can stand over. From field to
:16:38. > :16:45.the fork, totally traceable. Totally top end produce. Whenever
:16:45. > :16:49.it comes to processed products like Findus, that is imported. Are you
:16:49. > :16:57.telling people that until we get these results, eat the local
:16:57. > :17:01.produce on me? Why not? Is that what you are saying? It is
:17:01. > :17:05.something we can stand over, local produce. Nobody can give any
:17:05. > :17:13.assurance over processed food. That is the message that I have
:17:13. > :17:21.consistently made, by local produce. Edwina Currie, former minister, you
:17:21. > :17:26.went through this with eggs? What is your view? With eggs, 25 years
:17:26. > :17:31.ago, we had a lot of sick people so the main problem was we had
:17:31. > :17:37.contaminated food and it was dangerous, causing a lot of food
:17:37. > :17:42.poisoning and death. The situation now is quite different. Horsemeat
:17:42. > :17:52.is actually better for you than beef. Especially if you eat less of
:17:52. > :17:59.
:17:59. > :18:04.it. Is it? Is it horsemeat war is at Horse balls?! Kidneys and liver?
:18:04. > :18:09.Kidney and liver is even better for you. These are products that are
:18:09. > :18:15.eaten as delicacies in many other countries. Only the UK gets
:18:15. > :18:21.squeamish about this. Can I just have a little go. Michelle is a
:18:21. > :18:26.government minister, she isn't a spokesperson for promotional for
:18:26. > :18:31.farmers. They have people who do that. She is appointed an elected
:18:31. > :18:34.in order to look after the members of the public and I don't think you
:18:35. > :18:40.can are automatically say, because it is produced in one place it is
:18:40. > :18:49.automatically say. It has to go through all the testing. It has to
:18:49. > :18:54.be processed and packaged. She needs to be perhaps more upfront.
:18:54. > :18:58.We can stand over local produce, I take my role very seriously and I
:18:58. > :19:04.think that one of my key roles is to support the farming industry.
:19:04. > :19:07.you are wrong. You are saying exactly the sort of things that the
:19:07. > :19:15.Ministry of Agriculture was saying in London during the eggs crisis
:19:15. > :19:22.and they would defending bad practice. We had a lot of sick
:19:22. > :19:28.people them and we don't now. represent the farming community?
:19:28. > :19:34.lay the blame firmly at the door of supermarkets. Supermarkets made
:19:34. > :19:41.farmers jump through hoops. Quality assured, green fields, country-
:19:41. > :19:48.style living, family farms, everything the public wants. And
:19:48. > :19:53.they fly to France and by ready meals made with De Beers meat
:19:53. > :19:59.involved in their processed meals. They're trying to get the cheapest
:19:59. > :20:05.they can and there is a demand for very cheap food. She isn't always
:20:05. > :20:11.best, as we have learned. Beef isn't that expensive, people might
:20:11. > :20:16.think so but we cannot afford a contract mobile-phone or satellite
:20:16. > :20:20.television. It is a matter of choice. The man and a white shirt?
:20:20. > :20:24.You said about buying local produce and there is a demand for cheaper
:20:24. > :20:28.food, so should do with the amount of money that Stormont is getting
:20:28. > :20:34.from Westminster, the Government could subsidise food in
:20:34. > :20:38.supermarkets to make home-grown produce cheaper? And the very back?
:20:38. > :20:41.He said that people should buy local produce but what about the
:20:41. > :20:48.lower middle-classes who cannot afford that? Should they just
:20:48. > :20:52.suffer? Are you saying that you have an option? Not personally but
:20:52. > :20:59.there are people living on the breadline who cannot afford local
:20:59. > :21:03.produce for every meal. Tell me this - if you are looking at this
:21:03. > :21:09.and what is happening is the industry is in a mess, that's a
:21:09. > :21:14.fair comment. What has happened is that horsemeat is cheaper than beef,
:21:14. > :21:20.so what has been replaced. Are there any other types of food, not
:21:20. > :21:30.brand names, coming to mind where you would think, for example, will
:21:30. > :21:32.
:21:32. > :21:36.lamb? Is there testing? In Europe, since the days about Lynne Curry,
:21:36. > :21:41.the UK and Great Britain, right across Europe, has concentrated on
:21:41. > :21:45.the safety of the food supply chain. We have actually forgotten about
:21:45. > :21:50.the integrity. So there is a massive amount of food fraud that
:21:50. > :21:55.goes on around the world and I could list dozens of different food
:21:55. > :22:01.commodities that have fraudulent activity. Would that be affecting
:22:02. > :22:08.us in Northern Ireland? Statistics say that 10% of all food we buy it
:22:08. > :22:12.has some fraud associated with it. 10%? And that can be claims on the
:22:12. > :22:18.label that are not true. It might say that it is organic and it might
:22:18. > :22:22.not be or beef when it isn't. There is a very low level of testing of
:22:22. > :22:29.the integrity of the supply chain. Safety, since the days of Edwina
:22:29. > :22:35.Currie, absolutely but not integrity. We are going to continue
:22:35. > :22:45.with this discussion. Thank you for coming in, and win a curry. And the
:22:45. > :22:48.
:22:48. > :22:53.Minister. Round of applause? -- Edwina Currie. Well... The number
:22:53. > :22:58.is on the screen. Here is what is still to come. He said he was dead
:22:58. > :23:05.for 78 minutes, Fabrice Muamba is here tonight to tell us his amazing
:23:05. > :23:15.story. Before we move on, let's look on the screen as to hide you
:23:15. > :23:36.
:23:36. > :23:41.Gregory Campbell has told The Nolan Show just this morning that when he
:23:41. > :23:46.turns 60 this week, he will get his free bus pass. Here is the debate,
:23:46. > :23:51.he has said he will be using it. Despite the fact that he could
:23:51. > :23:55.choose to pay. If you have a pass it doesn't mean you have to use it
:23:55. > :24:00.and an MP earns �65,000 so should people who have a lot of money
:24:00. > :24:06.still get stuff free just because they are pensioners? Because they
:24:06. > :24:11.have worked all their life? Joining me is best to spend Bill Jeffrey,
:24:11. > :24:17.Maeve Cory's, but first there for a studio has Gregory Campbell.
:24:17. > :24:24.Gregory Campbell? Happy birthday, by the way. I like to give you lots
:24:25. > :24:29.of products. Yes, I have noticed! Why should someone on your a type
:24:29. > :24:37.of money take more money from the system rather than paying for it
:24:37. > :24:44.yourself? As a society, we have to decide if there is such a thing as
:24:44. > :24:49.a universal system of benefits or entitlements or if we move towards
:24:49. > :24:53.means-testing. The simplest approach is to have a universal
:24:53. > :25:00.system so everybody who qualifies gets it and that is what we do with
:25:00. > :25:04.travel. Means testing has a number of problems, because everybody --
:25:04. > :25:10.those who are most likely to benefit are actually the people
:25:10. > :25:14.there are the least likely to apply and get. Gregory, you don't have to
:25:14. > :25:17.means test, you could decide as a point of principle that you have
:25:17. > :25:24.enough and other pensioners could decide and do not take more money
:25:24. > :25:29.from the system if you don't have to? As I said this morning, the
:25:29. > :25:33.places where I would be moving about our places that there are not
:25:33. > :25:38.many trains and buses so it is unlikely that I will be in a
:25:38. > :25:41.position to use it but I would, as would anyone. Because pensioners
:25:41. > :25:47.have a sense of entitlement, they should get it just because they
:25:47. > :25:52.have paid into the system? It's at the Universal or not, if you means-
:25:52. > :25:57.test people them what you do is you will not get targeting the people
:25:57. > :26:03.who can most use this. People who don't bother using it are the
:26:04. > :26:07.people who are likely to apply for it and get it. Argue not
:26:08. > :26:11.embarrassed? If I was on a secret salary from the public purse and I
:26:11. > :26:19.was 20 years away from getting it, like you, I would be really
:26:19. > :26:25.embarrassed. This sort of argument makes me incandescent. His attitude
:26:25. > :26:32.is wrong. There is no doubt in my mind that bus passes are for
:26:32. > :26:37.pensioners who are struggling to make a living in society. There is
:26:37. > :26:43.an upper quartile of the population, about 2%, and they are the rich and
:26:43. > :26:48.well-heeled and they have no entitlement to free bus passes,
:26:48. > :26:52.heating allowances or free television. Although they have
:26:52. > :26:59.worked for 30 years? Every paced up, a National Insurance taken away?
:26:59. > :27:04.They don't get we just like us, they get dividends. But they have
:27:04. > :27:10.worked all their lives? Pensioners should get it, pensioners who have
:27:10. > :27:16.an income under 40 per �1,000. matter the income, they still have
:27:16. > :27:20.worked on other life? Are they not entitled to something? -- �45,000.
:27:20. > :27:28.The state has allowed those people in Northern Ireland to make a
:27:28. > :27:32.fortune, they get enough. What you want to happen is, do people go
:27:32. > :27:40.back onto the roads? Eight year- old? There is a reason for this as
:27:40. > :27:45.well. -- 18 year-olds. There are social reasons. Yet they are not
:27:45. > :27:49.using it to go down and have a cup of coffee with the girls and come
:27:49. > :27:53.back and pulled down to town and look around, they are using it for
:27:53. > :27:59.basic things. Going to the Post Office and the bank and to the
:27:59. > :28:03.doctor. You are trying to take this away? You should be ashamed.
:28:03. > :28:07.Looking at the most vulnerable, trying to say. It will not make
:28:07. > :28:12.much of a difference. The administration costs, that will eat
:28:12. > :28:21.into the amount that you would say if? What about the millionaire's
:28:21. > :28:25.tax? Why waste your time debating... Anybody who has income at 65, when
:28:25. > :28:32.retired, over �45,000, they should not be getting a free bus pass.
:28:32. > :28:36.They are not in need of that. Leicester could the other free
:28:36. > :28:46.staff - that pensioners will actually get... This is what they
:28:46. > :28:56.
:28:56. > :29:03.Now, I want to hear from you tonight on the phones. Let's go to
:29:03. > :29:08.Robert on the line. Hello. Stephen, I would like to say very
:29:08. > :29:13.clearly, pensioners left school when they were 14, 15 years of age.
:29:13. > :29:20.Worked practically 50 years of their life and they're entitled to
:29:20. > :29:23.free benefits, basically what I'm sear here is, I think it's a total
:29:24. > :29:28.disgrace by the Government what they're doing to our senior
:29:28. > :29:31.citizens. The Government actually is giving it. I'm questioning not
:29:31. > :29:35.whether pensioners who are poor should get it, I'm questioning
:29:35. > :29:38.whether pensioners who actually are not poor, they've got a couple of
:29:38. > :29:46.quid, whether they should get it. Guy in the back, yes, sir. I think
:29:46. > :29:51.there's an issue of safety as well. Regardless of a pensioner's salary
:29:51. > :29:57.or how much money they have, at a certain age, their driving in the
:29:57. > :30:02.car may not be safe. My grandmother is 82 and I obl feel comfortable of
:30:03. > :30:08.her driving small distances. Thank you very much. Hello Maria, what do
:30:08. > :30:14.you think? I sort after gree with you. I only asked the question.
:30:14. > :30:19.Sorry. Don't be pinning me for having a position, do you know why?
:30:19. > :30:23.My mother is in her 70s and she's here tonight and she'll kill me if
:30:23. > :30:26.she loses her bus pass. I don't want to get you in trouble, but I
:30:26. > :30:30.do think that it should not be abolished for pensioners that
:30:30. > :30:35.actually deserve it and need it. But whenever you're earning a lot
:30:35. > :30:38.of money in really hard economic times, there have been cuts across
:30:39. > :30:46.all boards. Students are feeling it, everybody's feeling it. If you can
:30:46. > :30:51.afford it, you should pay for it. Students are feeling it, what have
:30:51. > :30:56.they had to cut back on, a couple of beers? Not at all. If I want to
:30:56. > :31:01.go to England next year, I want to pay �9,000. I was a student as well.
:31:01. > :31:04.What were your fees? The vulnerable are using it to get from A to B.
:31:04. > :31:09.It's a life line. It's their freedom to the outside world so
:31:10. > :31:14.they can be social. It's also, if you talk about saving money as well,
:31:14. > :31:17.right, if you take away their free travel, what are they going to do,
:31:17. > :31:22.they're going to be dangerous on the roads. They're not getting any
:31:22. > :31:27.exercise. That little walk to the bus, no genuinely, they've proven
:31:27. > :31:33.this. This is nonsense. This decreases the risk of heart attack
:31:33. > :31:37.by 12%. In the long run you save on medical bills. A free bus pass
:31:38. > :31:42.decreases the rifpbg of a heart attack? Absolutely. Because they're
:31:42. > :31:46.walking to the bus. They do help our deserving pensioners get out
:31:46. > :31:49.and spend money and become social and that sort of thing. There are
:31:49. > :31:52.two classes of people in Northern Ireland. There's us and there's the
:31:53. > :31:58.ones who are very well off. The one who's are very well off could
:31:58. > :32:03.afford to buy the bus, never mind travel in it for free. That's
:32:03. > :32:07.absolutely true. Do you want them to be on the roads and drive around.
:32:07. > :32:11.I wouldn't fancy you driving around in ten years' time. They don't have
:32:11. > :32:17.to go to the supermarket. They send the man servant to the supermarket.
:32:17. > :32:20.Gregory, this is a serious subject. The reason being this: We do have
:32:20. > :32:24.hard decisions to make in Northern Ireland and actually, that money
:32:24. > :32:30.that we are using on elderly people, for those elderly people who don't
:32:30. > :32:35.need it, that's money that could otherwise go to - you could give
:32:35. > :32:38.more money to poorer elderly people if you took it off richer elderly
:32:38. > :32:45.people. You could push money into the younger generation. It's a
:32:45. > :32:49.serious debate this. It is. But, look, the problem is once you go
:32:49. > :32:57.towards the means testing principle, then you have to start the bench
:32:57. > :33:02.mark. Do you say it's people who earn more than �50,000, 6,000 --
:33:02. > :33:08.60,000 or 70,000, once you do that, there will be the concern amongst
:33:08. > :33:12.many that that's just a start. That it will be 40,000 and then 30,000.
:33:12. > :33:16.So that fewer and fewer people will qualify for what is something that
:33:16. > :33:20.everyone over a certain age should get. Yes, there are a range of
:33:20. > :33:26.things we should cut back on, but free travel and free television
:33:26. > :33:32.licenses for over 75s is not, they're not two of them. Sir Alan
:33:32. > :33:37.Sugar should get a winter fuel allowance? And he should be sent
:33:37. > :33:41.�200 and get a free bus pass if he comes to Northern Ireland? The cost
:33:41. > :33:47.of trying to exclude Sir Alan Sugar is going to be excluding thousands
:33:47. > :33:51.of others that deserve it. That's the problem. Yes in the glasses.
:33:51. > :33:55.I'd like a question to the lady with the blonde hair, the points
:33:55. > :33:58.I'd like to make to you, when you hit retirement age and for talk
:33:58. > :34:03.sake, you have several thousand in the bank, would you take a bus pass
:34:03. > :34:06.or would you refuse it? I'd take the bus pass. Because I deserve it.
:34:06. > :34:10.Because I've earned it. It's not something for nothing. You've
:34:10. > :34:13.worked all your life. You've contributed your taxes and some of
:34:13. > :34:18.the elderly at the moment they paid higher taxes than we ever will.
:34:19. > :34:21.It's not something for nothing. It's all take, take, take nowadays.
:34:22. > :34:25.Listen to him. You've several thousand in the bank when you
:34:25. > :34:32.retire, you're going to take a free bus pass, why not spend the money
:34:32. > :34:38.on taxis? Because I've earned it. don't think they should take at
:34:38. > :34:46.loupbs off people who deserve it. But someone like Geoffrey who is
:34:46. > :34:50.earning such a massive salary. Greggly. Sorry, Gregory. Would it
:34:50. > :34:55.not be better to take it off people who can afford to take a bus and
:34:55. > :35:01.distribute it more to people who need the free pass? There's a lady
:35:01. > :35:05.in the white top and the glasses. I've been listening here and it
:35:05. > :35:10.seems like because you work hard and you study hard and you get
:35:10. > :35:12.yourself a good job, you earn good money. Because you have sacrificed
:35:13. > :35:16.your life you're going to be penalised when you become a
:35:16. > :35:26.pensioner. No, that's not the case. APPLAUSE
:35:26. > :35:27.
:35:27. > :35:31.I take your point. But that is not the point. I say, if you earn or
:35:31. > :35:36.your pension comes in and you're getting over �45,000 a year, you
:35:36. > :35:40.don't need a free bus pass. You should not be getting the �200 a
:35:40. > :35:44.year winter heating allowance. And that can be done so easily by the
:35:44. > :35:47.revenue. They know when you take a deep breath in the revenue. They
:35:47. > :35:57.know who the supertax and the upper brackets are. They can stop that
:35:57. > :36:00.like that there. Can I just say... Hold on. Let that lady reply.
:36:00. > :36:04.still penalising people for working hard and earning money and being
:36:04. > :36:10.safe with their money that they're able to put some by for a rainy day.
:36:10. > :36:15.Ann is on the line. Hello? Hello. What do you think? I want to make
:36:15. > :36:19.the point thaw said to Gregory Campbell, he was taking money out
:36:19. > :36:24.of the economy. Now from my point of view, he is actually adding to
:36:24. > :36:30.the economy by using a bus pass. I'll give you an example. I'm a
:36:30. > :36:35.pensioner. I live in Derry here. I travel quite often on a firm here
:36:35. > :36:41.which runs buses... Don't call it Derry in front of Gregory. He knows
:36:41. > :36:46.what I mean. By the way, that bus is always, there's loads of buses
:36:46. > :36:50.now being started up, that business started in a small way. Now it is a
:36:50. > :36:53.thriving business and it depends on pensioners like myself using that
:36:53. > :36:58.bus. Thank you so much for calling me tonight. I'm only moving on
:36:58. > :37:01.because we've got loads of people who want to talk about it. The guy
:37:01. > :37:06.here. Some pensioners don't pay tax because they haven't been working
:37:06. > :37:07.all their lives and they might not deserve this free bus pass. I think
:37:08. > :37:16.there's better things the Government could be spending money
:37:16. > :37:26.on. Lots of young people wanting to talk about here. I'd like to ask
:37:26. > :37:30.
:37:30. > :37:36.Geoffrey... It's Gregory! Can I just tell you, to be fair to
:37:36. > :37:40.Geoffrey, he's not that old looking. The fellow in the yellow tie.
:37:40. > :37:46.Where are you pulling the figure of 45,000 a year from? Seemles you
:37:46. > :37:50.have dreamt it up as an arbitrary line. What about people who earn
:37:50. > :37:55.�44,000 a year. What is the difference, why should they be
:37:55. > :37:59.penalised and they're not. It's a figure I'm suggesting. You picked
:38:00. > :38:03.it out of the sky? You don't know all my trade secrets. Maybe his
:38:03. > :38:07.mother doesn't come under it. a reasonable figure. If you earn
:38:07. > :38:12.that amount of money you can afford to go on the bus and you don't need
:38:12. > :38:16.the central heating money as well. Yes the lady there. What message
:38:16. > :38:20.are we sending out to the youth of today that if you work hard all
:38:20. > :38:24.your life, you'll not get entitlements to somebody else who
:38:24. > :38:28.has never worked a day, never given any tax, nerve done anything and
:38:28. > :38:32.they will get a reward that you won't get. What message is that to
:38:32. > :38:38.the youth to make people want to go out and get a job and work? It's
:38:38. > :38:47.another discussion that we can continue now on Twitter, @Stephen
:38:47. > :38:49.Nolan. When is your birthday Gregory? Happy birthday Bill.
:38:50. > :38:59.you. Geoffrey, thank you for joining us this evening. Thank you.
:39:00. > :39:04.
:39:04. > :39:09.You wouldn't get it anywhere else. He says he was dead for 78 minutes.
:39:09. > :39:12.It's an amazing story. Our next guest was lying in the middle of a
:39:12. > :39:15.Premiership football pitch last year. From nowhere he had dropped
:39:15. > :39:19.to the ground. Then he was surrounded by doctors who were
:39:19. > :39:23.furiously trying to save his life. This has become a story talked
:39:23. > :39:26.about around the world. I'm so, so proud and I'm so grateful that he's
:39:26. > :39:29.chosen to come here to this programme and in Northern Ireland.
:39:29. > :39:39.Ladies and gentleman, can we give him a big Northern Ireland welcome,
:39:39. > :39:54.
:39:54. > :40:01.Fabrice Muamba. CHEERING AND Listen, Geoffrey, can I say it's
:40:01. > :40:04.really good to have you here. LAUGHTER
:40:04. > :40:09.What an incredible story and we're going to let it unfold in front of
:40:09. > :40:12.us tonight. I want to remind us all at home about this, this dreadful
:40:12. > :40:16.moment and how it unfolded, when moment and how it unfolded, when
:40:16. > :40:19.you collapsed to the ground. Let's have a look. A player collapsed and
:40:19. > :40:24.I don't think any player was surrounding him. Muamba is down.
:40:24. > :40:30.They're calling for a stretcher straight away. Modric is calling
:40:30. > :40:33.for the stretcher. Whether he had a fit on the field, I'm not sure.
:40:33. > :40:39.looked down and there was Muamba face into the ground. They've now
:40:39. > :40:40.turned him over. The paramedics, quickly on the scene. They are
:40:41. > :40:46.giving Fabrice Muamba resuscitation giving Fabrice Muamba resuscitation
:40:47. > :40:49.out on the pitch. We can only hope that Fabrice Muamba is OK. But very,
:40:49. > :40:56.very distressing scenes because everybody can see what is actually
:40:56. > :41:00.happening. The supporters of both sets inside
:41:00. > :41:04.White Hart Lane are chanting the name of Fabrice Muamba. They're
:41:04. > :41:09.watching on hoping that Fabrice Muamba, who is fighting for his
:41:09. > :41:12.life, can pull through here. They are continuing to resuscitate
:41:12. > :41:22.Fabrice Muamba as he is being stretchered off. We can only hope
:41:22. > :41:23.
:41:23. > :41:26.that Fabrice Muamba pulls through. that Fabrice Muamba pulls through.
:41:26. > :41:29.Pretty cool, right? Riez What had you felt in the run up to that on
:41:30. > :41:35.the pitch, did you feel anything was wrong? Leading to the game, I
:41:35. > :41:39.didn't feel not tired or dizzy, I was very excited. Because two weeks
:41:39. > :41:43.before, I wasn't playing. So I got very, very angry. If you talk to
:41:43. > :41:48.any footballer, they tell you, when they're not playing, they're not
:41:48. > :41:52.nice to be around. It's kind of like when the BBC axes my show. I
:41:52. > :41:57.know what it's like. My fiance at the time, I would give her a talk
:41:57. > :42:02.at the time this and that, why I'm not playing. Leading to the game,
:42:02. > :42:06.when I was told I was playing, I was really looking forward to it.
:42:06. > :42:09.Hopefully I could get back in the starting 11. What you had been
:42:09. > :42:15.doing was you decided you were fit, but in the run up to, that you
:42:15. > :42:20.decided to get even fitter, right? Coming back to the Premiership,
:42:20. > :42:24.last year, I took probably like, we normally have six weeks off, so I
:42:24. > :42:29.took four weeks off. Then two weeks leading to go back to training, I
:42:29. > :42:33.went to America. I mean I train like crazy. I train, train, train.
:42:33. > :42:37.How hard, what were you doing? Everything you could think of. No
:42:37. > :42:42.drugs stuff, but physically, everything you could think of -
:42:42. > :42:48.weights, running. More than you'd ever done before? Yeah. I just went
:42:48. > :42:51.running and running. If I came back pre-season and look fitter, I'd be
:42:51. > :42:56.able to start playing more regularly and push on in my career.
:42:56. > :43:01.Leading to the game I didn't feel no tired, no dizzy, just before the
:43:01. > :43:07.incident happened I just literally felt this diziness and I lost
:43:07. > :43:10.control and my heart just went. you collapsed onto the ground.
:43:10. > :43:17.think the first time my head hit the ground and the second time I
:43:17. > :43:23.was literally gone. I was gone. What's your next state of
:43:23. > :43:29.consciousness. 70-odd minutes later? 78, yes, but I didn't wake
:43:29. > :43:36.up. I didn't wake up till the Monday. I was sleeping, well I
:43:36. > :43:39.start breathing at 79 minutes. stopped breathing for 79 minutes.
:43:39. > :43:42.Yes then on Monday that's when I went "Oh, what's going on here?"
:43:42. > :43:49.Then I found out. Everybody had to tell me what happened. I didn't
:43:49. > :43:53.believe it could happen to me. you had collapsed onto the ground,
:43:53. > :43:59.luckily there were doctors and Med ics and amazing peming who rushed
:43:59. > :44:03.onto the pitch and saved your life. I think I had the right people at
:44:03. > :44:07.the right time in the right place. Because if this would have happened
:44:07. > :44:11.in my bedroom, I don't think I would be able to be here. Because
:44:11. > :44:16.if you look at the history of cardiac arrest, not many people
:44:16. > :44:20.survive this. For me to be where I was and to be where I am right now,
:44:20. > :44:30.it's credit to the medical staff. Are there any doctors that
:44:30. > :44:36.
:44:36. > :44:44.particularly come to mind? Everybody that day. The man in the
:44:44. > :44:50.stand, he came to the game. He was a fan and he rushed on? It was his
:44:50. > :44:57.cousins took it. A and the club doctor from Bolton? He was great
:44:57. > :45:07.and the guys... He was a mate of yours? Yes. What did John of India?
:45:07. > :45:09.
:45:09. > :45:19.CPR. And the guys from Spurs, -- what did Jonathan do. He is here to
:45:19. > :45:39.
:45:39. > :45:49.You have some water in your eyes! What did you do? What first entered
:45:49. > :45:53.her mind? I was tracking the ball and it was away from him and I
:45:53. > :45:58.heard screaming on the headphones, get onto the pitch and he had
:45:58. > :46:03.collapsed and Iran on and he was not breathing. I knew that
:46:04. > :46:10.something serious was happening and that at Dortmund, I cannot think or
:46:11. > :46:18.see straight. The intensity was horrendous. You're trying to get
:46:18. > :46:22.his heart to start again? Yes. longer it has stopped, the more
:46:22. > :46:29.likely is there will be damage? Firstly, we were trying to make
:46:29. > :46:34.sure we had enough oxygen provided. To give the defibrillator time to
:46:34. > :46:43.work. I did mouth to mouth. That was not a particularly pleasant
:46:43. > :46:50.experience! When he came round, his wife said that he was pleased that
:46:50. > :46:56.he had asked for her and not for me! There was some chest
:46:56. > :47:02.compressions for 78 minutes and we were shocking his heart. Was there
:47:02. > :47:09.any moment when you thought, he is dead and he isn't coming back?
:47:09. > :47:13.yes. When I got to hospital, 38 minutes, chest compressions and I
:47:13. > :47:17.was still wearing football boots. I was standing around in the
:47:17. > :47:22.ambulance. A paramedic was holding me because I could not get any
:47:22. > :47:27.purchase on the floor. If I was not involved, I would not have believed
:47:27. > :47:34.this. The hospital staff then took over. And there were just
:47:34. > :47:39.unbelievable. It was a longer hands-on, I just slid down the wall
:47:39. > :47:49.and I cried. You write about this in your book? Hearing the story
:47:49. > :47:54.
:47:54. > :48:00.about Jonathan? Crying? He is a doctor. We go along way back. I
:48:00. > :48:03.have so much respect for him. Not just for what happened but every
:48:03. > :48:11.single time, we have become very good friends and I love him to
:48:11. > :48:21.death. When you were on the pitch and you were in big trouble, where
:48:21. > :48:27.was your child? Joshua? He actually saw what happened. Daddy is on the
:48:27. > :48:35.floor. He needs to get up. He kept repeating that. She started to
:48:35. > :48:45.panic. Come over to the house, she had to go over. It was a very
:48:45. > :48:47.
:48:47. > :48:57.difficult time. For her heart to stop for 79 minutes. 78 and its. --
:48:57. > :48:59.
:48:59. > :49:04.minutes. Is it not likely that you are not brain-damaged?
:49:04. > :49:09.professor, this is his speciality, looking after people who have
:49:09. > :49:16.arrested. In 20 years, he has never heard of a case where it has been
:49:16. > :49:20.for that length of time and that is the coincidence. One of the most
:49:20. > :49:23.high-profile cardiac arrests that has happened and the one where we
:49:23. > :49:33.had the most extraordinary result. For those two things to coincide is
:49:33. > :49:43.pretty amazing. You fought back. is. How difficult was it, to terms
:49:43. > :49:44.
:49:44. > :49:53.with nearly dying? It did not hit home until I heard the story in
:49:53. > :50:02.Italy. I knew this was big stuff. He was a footballer, he did not
:50:02. > :50:05.make it. And I did. This is bigger than what it seemed to be. I just
:50:05. > :50:10.had the right people at the right time. And they did an extremely
:50:10. > :50:20.good job. There is the young man in the audience who has a similar
:50:20. > :50:27.condition to you. Christmas meal? Hello. You have something similar?
:50:27. > :50:33.Yes. What happened? I was playing in the Milk Cup, the youth football
:50:33. > :50:42.tournament, and I collapsed seven minutes into the first game. I had
:50:42. > :50:46.a cardiac arrest and my heart had stopped. And what next? I am not
:50:46. > :50:52.the right person to ask, I was out of it. As far as I know, they
:50:52. > :50:57.worked on me for 15 minutes and eventually, one of my team-mates,
:50:57. > :51:04.his father was a doctor, and he ran on and give me mouth to mouth. Bit
:51:04. > :51:09.embarrassing! After 20 minutes, by Mathew -- my heart started. What
:51:09. > :51:14.does it feel like to be that close to death? It does that really kick
:51:14. > :51:19.in. I don't really remember the day for much of the next month. But I
:51:19. > :51:22.do remember days in hospital and I heard on radio that a Gaelic
:51:22. > :51:29.football player had not made it, and that is when it hits home.
:51:29. > :51:33.There are no different. What does it feel like a, b have been
:51:33. > :51:37.training so hard and have pushed yourself to the limit in America,
:51:37. > :51:47.you have come back and the dream was to keep playing football and to
:51:47. > :51:47.
:51:48. > :51:53.have to stop? The dream is over? When I think about this out, the
:51:53. > :52:01.biggest train that was over when I collapsed, I was gone. There is no
:52:01. > :52:04.coming back from that one. If you manage to get over that, then
:52:04. > :52:10.surely you can achieve anything in your life. Because nobody wants to
:52:10. > :52:16.die. And for my heart to stop beating 478 minutes. Everything was
:52:16. > :52:23.against me. I would have been disabled, brain damage, everything
:52:23. > :52:30.you could think of. To come back from this and here I am. My career
:52:30. > :52:39.is over, I am disappointed. But it is at the end of the world.
:52:39. > :52:45.yard to blessed? 100%. -- you are to blessed? That is how I look at
:52:45. > :52:51.life. A lovely phrase that used was every breath is a victory? I looked
:52:51. > :52:56.at those words. I think about that at home. Every breath is a victory.
:52:56. > :53:03.And then think about how we take that for granted, every breath.
:53:03. > :53:10.have seen the picture of me in the hospital. I don't want to go back
:53:11. > :53:15.there. Every breath that high-tech, I was getting better. Getting good.
:53:15. > :53:23.I had a problem with my heart beat, it was irregular. I just hope that
:53:23. > :53:28.I can get the Tabard working. My heart is getting back to normality.
:53:28. > :53:33.For me, every breath that I take, there is more out there that I can
:53:33. > :53:39.do. Football has finished, yes, but it is like driving a car, you reach
:53:39. > :53:44.a dead end and you have to go on a different direction. I have been
:53:44. > :53:50.talking on Radio 5 Live about Paul Gascoigne and about how troublesome
:53:50. > :53:55.it was for him when the football ended and there was that massive
:53:55. > :54:02.void in his life. You seem to be... I have got no time to waste. To
:54:02. > :54:10.feel sorry for myself. To sit down and say, this could have happened,
:54:11. > :54:17.I like to think that I am very sensible. I have a big family.
:54:17. > :54:23.Another child on the way, Mr! have to think wisely. I don't drink.
:54:23. > :54:27.Only now and again. At the same time, I have no time to waste.
:54:27. > :54:37.must have been amazing going back to your club. We can look at this.
:54:37. > :54:47.Here it is... What does that feel like? Look at that reception?
:54:47. > :54:49.
:54:49. > :54:54.was massive. Just to go out there. To see the Bolton fans for the
:54:55. > :54:59.first time again. It was a great day. It was very emotional. Even in
:54:59. > :55:05.the morning, I was thinking, I changed my mind twice. I don't want
:55:06. > :55:15.to go, I can go now... Just go there. Do what I need to do and
:55:16. > :55:18.
:55:18. > :55:28.come home. And your last thought for us as to your prevailing
:55:28. > :55:31.
:55:31. > :55:36.attitude to life? Regarding the heart problem, it is fair to say
:55:36. > :55:39.that you must get your heart checked. You have to. If you have a
:55:39. > :55:43.heart checked, you can find out if there's something wrong and deal
:55:43. > :55:47.with it. For other guys, who want to be footballers, just enjoy life,
:55:47. > :55:52.don't get too serious. Just go out there and play the game with good
:55:53. > :55:58.spirit and enjoy the game and if you are good enough, you will play.
:55:58. > :56:02.I commented that you were coming to this programme and there was a
:56:02. > :56:06.reaction like I have never seen before. I had never heard from
:56:06. > :56:10.against before he was as popular as you. For someone like you to fly to
:56:10. > :56:12.Northern Ireland with your story, thank you for coming, it is
:56:12. > :56:22.appreciated and this crowd will give you a big round of applause.
:56:22. > :56:31.
:56:31. > :56:36.Thank you. APPLAUSE. We have five minutes left. Be ready get any
:56:36. > :56:41.opportunity to go into the crowd. If you have any questions,
:56:41. > :56:51.throughout the series, we are back in April. Any questions at all? Put
:56:51. > :56:57.
:56:57. > :57:07.your hand up. Yes? # Your love... Is lifting the higher than I have
:57:07. > :57:16.
:57:17. > :57:25.ever been lifted before! Thank you! Yes? SINGING: I will be the side to
:57:25. > :57:35.side forever more. -- be decided you forever more. It is Valentine's
:57:35. > :57:40.
:57:40. > :57:47.Day, let's have some fun. Happy Valentine's Day, everybody! # Your
:57:47. > :57:57.love... Is lifting the higher than I have ever been lifted before.
:57:57. > :57:59.
:57:59. > :58:07.You're not... I will be at your side forever more. Your love keeps