:00:14. > :00:19.A pause hello, well, we are live on BBC One. Here is what we have got
:00:19. > :00:23.to read. The biggest shake-up for a generation is coming our way.
:00:23. > :00:33.Some people are furious over benefit changes that have already
:00:33. > :00:38.
:00:38. > :00:41.It could be anyone, that could put them in a bad situation.
:00:41. > :00:45.Parents' anger at the cost of kitting out that their kids in
:00:45. > :00:49.branded deer. The thigh wanted to buy branded goods for my kids it
:00:49. > :00:53.should be my choice, but it is not, it is dictated to me.
:00:53. > :01:03.And love them or hate them, you cannot escape them, ladies and
:01:03. > :01:20.
:01:20. > :01:24.gentlemen, Jedward are live in our Will come along, thank you for
:01:24. > :01:28.joining us on the BBC. There is lots to get through
:01:28. > :01:38.tonight, and we need you at home to get involved, as well. Here is how
:01:38. > :02:00.
:02:00. > :02:08.If only you had seen that. The floor manager went scudding over
:02:08. > :02:12.the whole studio! How you doing, welcome at home, the details will
:02:12. > :02:16.be coming up on screen as to how to get in touch. We have a bit of fun
:02:16. > :02:20.at the end of the programme tonight. It certainly was not much fun in
:02:20. > :02:24.the Assembly last eight, because late in the night our MLAs hoarded
:02:24. > :02:29.in favour of the biggest shake-up of social security benefits for
:02:30. > :02:34.decades. This is called the Welfare Reform Bill. It sounds pretty
:02:34. > :02:39.boring, but after a knew what, if you are on DLA, housing benefit,
:02:39. > :02:42.unemployment benefit, things could be changing for you'd big time. If
:02:42. > :02:47.you are not but you resent people who are, you will also want to be
:02:47. > :02:51.part of tonight's discussion. Controversial stuff, loads of
:02:51. > :02:56.uncertainty and a lot of fear. Big savings in benefits, the budget
:02:56. > :03:02.plan, DLA, disability living allowance, that is being replaced.
:03:02. > :03:08.Housing benefit, that is one of their areas there will be a big
:03:08. > :03:12.squeeze. There will be people who turn down jobs to stay in benefits,
:03:12. > :03:18.their money could be stopped for up to three years. Is the spitting on
:03:18. > :03:24.the poor, or standing up for hard- pressed taxpayers? With us tonight,
:03:24. > :03:30.Alex Maskey off the Sinn Fein, and the man earmarked -- earmarked as
:03:30. > :03:35.Simon Hamilton. The big Tory idea is that the heart of this, it gets
:03:35. > :03:40.people off benefits and into work. That's look at what George Osborne
:03:40. > :03:44.said that the Conservative Party conference this week.
:03:44. > :03:47.Where is the fairness for the shift worker, leaving home in the dark
:03:47. > :03:52.bows of the early morning, he looks up at the closed blinds of their
:03:52. > :03:57.next-door neighbour, as slipping off our life on benefits. --
:03:57. > :04:03.slipping off a life on benefit. When we say we are all in this
:04:03. > :04:09.together, we speak for that worker. Simon Hamilton, let me quote one of
:04:09. > :04:15.your colleagues, he said that he reckons there are jobs out there
:04:15. > :04:17.for people if they really look for the infrastructure you agree?
:04:17. > :04:21.Everybody understands we're in difficult economic times and jobs
:04:21. > :04:26.are skiers. We have had increasing rates of unemployment in Northern
:04:26. > :04:33.Ireland over the last few months, to the point we are higher than the
:04:33. > :04:37.UK average. Yesterday we were focusing on, clearly we were on how
:04:37. > :04:41.we deal with unemployment, but there was quite a lot of unanimity
:04:41. > :04:46.on agreeing some of the principles behind the Bill, like trying to get
:04:46. > :04:51.people ready for work and moving people out of work into work. There
:04:51. > :04:55.are a lot of people in Northern Ireland to have been out of work
:04:55. > :04:58.and their family for generations... But do you believe in the principle
:04:58. > :05:02.of what George Osborne as saying? That there are too many people on
:05:02. > :05:06.benefits and they should get up and get out to work? I don't think it
:05:06. > :05:10.is a good peak -- good thing to have people on benefit. We should
:05:10. > :05:15.be getting people ready to go into work if it is there for them. I
:05:15. > :05:18.don't think anyone would disagree with that. We agreed to across the
:05:18. > :05:23.Assembly last night that this welfare reform will have negative
:05:23. > :05:28.effects on a lot of people, particularly in Northern Ireland.
:05:28. > :05:30.Would you say you support the support it -- the core cramps at --
:05:30. > :05:33.support the core principles of the Bill?
:05:33. > :05:36.We did. Be you think there are too many
:05:36. > :05:41.people in Northern Ireland on benefits, load of people swinging
:05:41. > :05:44.the leg? I would say there are a lot less
:05:44. > :05:48.people are Northern Ireland on benefits, I would like to see more
:05:48. > :05:51.people in work. Do you concede that the vast
:05:51. > :05:55.majority of people on benefits or off benefits are there because they
:05:55. > :06:00.cannot get a job? The air are people on benefits for
:06:00. > :06:05.a lot of reasons. A lot of people are out of work or on low incomes
:06:05. > :06:08.or have disabilities. There is no dispute that there are higher-than-
:06:09. > :06:14.average numbers in Northern Ireland on benefits for valid reasons.
:06:14. > :06:17.A Alex Maskey, do you agree with him now? I think the good thing
:06:17. > :06:20.about the Assembly debate last night was that for all of the
:06:20. > :06:25.parties to some degree or another, we acknowledged there were
:06:25. > :06:29.fundamental problems with this bill. I think that was important. The
:06:29. > :06:33.good thing is, there is a lot of agreement around the chamber about
:06:33. > :06:37.what the problems are. Fundamental problems with the bill
:06:37. > :06:43.that was passed last night. That is OK, people have made their choices
:06:43. > :06:46.to support the Bill or not. That is now over. The parties in the
:06:46. > :06:52.Assembly passed the bill in the second stage.
:06:52. > :06:55.He does not think they were fundamental problems, do you? He
:06:55. > :07:00.what were the fundamental problems in that build? Fundamental problems
:07:00. > :07:04.people in Northern Ireland will be facing? There were issues around
:07:04. > :07:08.unanimity across the board across all parties. There were issues
:07:08. > :07:12.about how it would affect some of the most honourable in society,
:07:12. > :07:16.disabled people, cancer sufferers. These are things that have been
:07:16. > :07:20.pushed through in Westminster, and unfortunately my own party voted
:07:20. > :07:24.against these reforms. In Northern Ireland we are restricted by parity.
:07:24. > :07:29.If we breach that we have been picked up the bill are Matt --
:07:29. > :07:32.ourselves on this. We do not have the money to pay the large welfare
:07:32. > :07:35.bill there is in Northern Ireland, so we are restricted. What I am
:07:35. > :07:39.trying to establish tonight, now that this bill has passed that
:07:39. > :07:43.stage, and you can be amendments, what do you think the fundamental
:07:43. > :07:48.problems are that people should be frightened about? For stubble, it
:07:49. > :07:52.is very clear from George Osborne and others like him that this is an
:07:52. > :07:57.attack on vulnerable people for the most part. If there are people
:07:57. > :08:03.swinging the leg, as you discredit, then the Department have to say to
:08:03. > :08:07.themselves, they have to stamp out fraud. The problem is, you could
:08:07. > :08:11.have listened to what the Tories are saying about creating jobs. The
:08:11. > :08:14.biggest problem here, we know, is there is a long, historical problem
:08:14. > :08:18.of unemployment, and that is not getting any better. The big problem
:08:18. > :08:24.is, and you have touched on this yourself, there are a lot of people
:08:24. > :08:28.on low incomes, and a lot of them have some benefits or perhaps at
:08:28. > :08:32.tax credit. They are all at risk now. Let me get a sense from the
:08:32. > :08:36.audience tonight. A delight to address this issue by
:08:36. > :08:38.asking, why should the young people of Northern Ireland raising
:08:38. > :08:43.families have to cut back on all benefits, especially housing
:08:43. > :08:48.benefit? Will the Government come out when we are in difficulty and
:08:48. > :08:51.offer us a hand to pay our rent? Are you unemployed?
:08:51. > :08:54.I am, yes. For how long?
:08:54. > :08:58.I have been unemployed for 15 years because I cannot get work.
:08:58. > :09:04.A wide? Be does not want to employ me.
:09:04. > :09:09.I heart have you tried? I have tried very hard.
:09:09. > :09:13.I have been down to the dole office every fortnight for the last 15
:09:13. > :09:17.years filling out application forms. Sending them to different
:09:17. > :09:22.programmes to try and better myself. Do you think, until you get a job,
:09:22. > :09:26.you should have things paid for you? Or I just don't think they
:09:26. > :09:31.should be cutting back on housing benefit.
:09:31. > :09:36.Well, the Tories clearly think, and some of the others, that it will
:09:36. > :09:39.motivate you more because, needs must, did you get to the stage
:09:39. > :09:44.where you have not got a roof over your head you will get up and get a
:09:44. > :09:46.job. That is what some would argue. A if I was handed a job tomorrow
:09:46. > :09:50.morning, I would do it to come off benefits.
:09:50. > :09:54.Over here. I have worked all my life and paid
:09:54. > :09:59.my taxes, and I agree with these welfare changes. It is about time,
:09:59. > :10:03.because once they are publicised -- because people seem to be getting
:10:03. > :10:13.houses, benefits, everything paid for them. I get nothing, I worked
:10:13. > :10:18.for what I get. Do you not believe 15 years? That is a long, long time.
:10:18. > :10:22.So, you don't believe him. They need to going to training,
:10:22. > :10:26.something needs to be put into place to help them. A what would
:10:26. > :10:35.you say to that lady? That Lady probably does not well
:10:35. > :10:39.what she is talking about. We want to get off benefits. If we could
:10:39. > :10:43.find a job, we would take it. Everyone in this audience who
:10:43. > :10:46.laughed, thick about what you did, you made a value judgement about
:10:46. > :10:54.somebody because they have not got employment for a long time. Is that
:10:54. > :10:58.fair? You laughed at him. I don't know him, but at the end of the day,
:10:58. > :11:02.how do you know he is not desperate for work? How do you know the
:11:02. > :11:08.system is not loaded against him? How do you know these new cuts will
:11:09. > :11:12.not put somebody like that gentleman out onto the street?
:11:12. > :11:16.To get back to the lady in the audience, you have made a reported
:11:16. > :11:20.putt, you have worked all your life and paid contributions, but this
:11:20. > :11:24.welfare reform goes through -- if this goes through unamended, the
:11:24. > :11:27.contributions you have made - and there are probably a lot of people
:11:27. > :11:30.in this audience worried about their own jobs as they sit in this
:11:30. > :11:35.run tonight but we have to also understand of this welfare bill
:11:35. > :11:39.goes through without changes, your contributions will be worthless,
:11:39. > :11:42.because they will be disregarded after 12 months. You have lost a
:11:42. > :11:46.contribution, and I don't think that is fair because you have
:11:46. > :11:51.worked all your life. The people in this audience who are working full-
:11:51. > :11:55.time, need to be aware this bill will likely impact yourselves.
:11:55. > :12:02.the bottom line is, it was passed last night, and the bottom line is,
:12:02. > :12:07.every time are you lot were pushed about laying down a petition of
:12:07. > :12:11.concern, he did not do it. You could have blocked it. You could
:12:11. > :12:16.have killed it and you didn't. They say that we could have blocked
:12:16. > :12:20.it, and we could have said to the DUP, Martin McGuinness could have
:12:20. > :12:24.said that it is not going on their agenda. As Peter Robertson can do
:12:24. > :12:28.with other issues. If we had said it is not going on the agenda, and
:12:28. > :12:34.I can tell you because I am on our leadership, we took the decision,
:12:34. > :12:40.we considered blocking it. The Bill will not goalie, it will have to be
:12:40. > :12:46.addressed at some point. -- it will not Gourlay. It is possible that
:12:46. > :12:49.build to go through. It could go through. And you lot doing all the
:12:49. > :12:53.grandstanding, saying it is terrible, but your constituents
:12:53. > :12:58.will not have been protected. me finish, because we could have
:12:58. > :13:03.said we would pocket, but the bill would still come back. It had to be
:13:03. > :13:08.dealt with. Un-view was to take the responsible approach and try to get
:13:08. > :13:11.the bill changed. -- our view. Our device yesterday was calculated, we
:13:11. > :13:15.wanted to make sure that all the parties would nail their colours to
:13:15. > :13:20.the mast and say what they felt about the mill, that we may have
:13:20. > :13:23.got a deferral of the vote had been tipped as well. That would have
:13:23. > :13:27.allowed us collectively to go back to the British Government to say,
:13:27. > :13:35.you recognise our circumstances are worse than England. Let us have a
:13:35. > :13:39.bill that meets our people's needs. We have said we will not support
:13:39. > :13:45.the Bill, unless there are some changes to it. What are the red
:13:45. > :13:49.lines? We have said there are simple things. Spell them out.
:13:49. > :13:53.We have said, for example, this is the subject the monthly payment.
:13:54. > :13:59.The monthly payment does a number of things. It will put a lot of
:13:59. > :14:03.people on low money into debt. It will impact on women, because most
:14:03. > :14:08.women would be the main carer in the family. That is a reality. If
:14:08. > :14:13.you then give all the money once a month to the head of the household,
:14:13. > :14:17.most of the time it will be the man. That means you are wit -- moving
:14:17. > :14:21.social equality back 50 years. A OK, if that is not fair and it is
:14:21. > :14:25.not right, that is all fine saying that tonight. There is only one
:14:26. > :14:29.question you have to answer tonight - if it is not changed, will you
:14:29. > :14:37.protect the people who voted for Sinn Fein by telling that build?
:14:37. > :14:41.will do our very best. That is what we're doing. You had the power to
:14:41. > :14:46.kill it. I am saying to you, people need to realise, the bill will come
:14:46. > :14:51.home to roost at some point back. What we're trying to do at this
:14:51. > :15:01.stage is shaped the bill. Similarly, have you got red lines
:15:01. > :15:07.
:15:07. > :15:11.This Bill is not perfect. But it would have been irresponsible not
:15:11. > :15:20.to have let the Bill passed through committee stage. It will scrutinise
:15:20. > :15:25.the bill, look at the problems and come forward with amendments.
:15:25. > :15:30.send the message to Westminster tonight. Are there red lines for
:15:30. > :15:35.the DUP after which you will kill VAT bill? What will be
:15:35. > :15:39.irresponsible will be not to get it through in the end through some
:15:39. > :15:46.shape or form. Not to do that it would cost �2 million in Northern
:15:46. > :15:50.Ireland. Taking over �200 million out of our budget at a time when we
:15:50. > :15:54.can ill afford to do it will inevitably affect vulnerable people.
:15:54. > :15:59.We are talking about vulnerable people in respect of welfare. We
:15:59. > :16:04.would be creating more vulnerable people if they took �200 million
:16:04. > :16:10.out of our budget. If the coalition governments across the water is
:16:11. > :16:20.looking at us now, have asked him if there is a deal breaker, he has
:16:21. > :16:22.
:16:22. > :16:26.not said there is one. The point is this, they know they can call your
:16:26. > :16:30.bluff because you're not playing hardball because you have an
:16:30. > :16:34.opportunity to send a message to a night on behalf of the people you
:16:34. > :16:40.represent a mess to say, and less we get this, and this, it is not
:16:40. > :16:44.going through. You're not doing it. We are working through it to see if
:16:44. > :16:51.we have flexibility. We will put those through as amendments at
:16:51. > :16:56.committee stage if possible. Not to do so would cost our budget �200
:16:56. > :17:02.million and that will only at upon the vulnerable people of Northern
:17:02. > :17:07.Ireland. What do you think about this? And very concerned. We
:17:07. > :17:12.shouldn't be looking at the shape of this and say there are bits we
:17:12. > :17:18.do like and bits we don't like. It is the purpose of this Bill which
:17:19. > :17:24.is what is wrong. Not what it may contain. It is to further
:17:24. > :17:29.impoverish our people. For the sake of argument, if we don't do this,
:17:29. > :17:34.it will cost �200 million to the Exchequer. I heard your argument
:17:34. > :17:39.this week. But the same people arguing for a reduction in
:17:39. > :17:44.corporation tax, which will take at least that amount of money out of
:17:44. > :17:50.the Budget in Northern Ireland, nobody was complaining about that.
:17:50. > :17:54.There are other issues in this. Issues of how they treat people.
:17:54. > :18:00.The minister says in his statement and I read his statement in great
:18:00. > :18:05.detail. He says in terms of the Bill as it goes through, it will
:18:05. > :18:09.take 10,000 children out of poverty in Northern Ireland. That is very
:18:09. > :18:15.laudable. But his department did a poverty report which was published
:18:15. > :18:22.in June this year. It says there are 93,000 children living in
:18:22. > :18:32.relative poverty and more living in absolute poverty. But will he do
:18:32. > :18:33.
:18:33. > :18:36.about the 127,000 of them? What we have heard is a wonderful
:18:36. > :18:41.example of the dysfunctional a teat that lies at the heart of the
:18:41. > :18:45.Executive. You have asked straightforward questions and what
:18:45. > :18:49.you have had his numerous evasions around the bottom line. These would
:18:49. > :18:58.be the boys that got a vote because you didn't.
:18:58. > :19:04.Same people resided over the biggest increase in Northern
:19:04. > :19:14.Ireland for a very long time. I did not interrupt you, do not interrupt
:19:14. > :19:15.
:19:15. > :19:20.Yuki referring to the importance of killing the Bill. -- you keep. A
:19:20. > :19:24.lot of people think this Bill is overdue and it is essential because
:19:24. > :19:30.we have an issue. If politicians are so good us, that they won't
:19:30. > :19:38.accept it, taxpayers in particular do want to see change. David is on
:19:38. > :19:43.the line. Details on the screen if you want to call us.
:19:43. > :19:49.I am a carer for a disabled relative. To be honest, I am on the
:19:49. > :19:59.brink of saying I have had enough of doing this. If someone was put
:19:59. > :20:01.
:20:01. > :20:07.into a home, it could be anything up to �1,100 a week. As a unionist,
:20:07. > :20:12.I am disgusted of the DUP, the Official Unionist Party who all
:20:12. > :20:17.voted in favour of this Bill. They should have stood their ground. If
:20:17. > :20:27.we are all in this together, there the MLAs take a 50% pay cut.
:20:27. > :20:31.
:20:31. > :20:41.Everyone are few clapping tonight prepared to take a 50% pay cut,
:20:41. > :20:43.
:20:43. > :20:53.because I am not? We're talking about the fact you did not get any
:20:53. > :20:55.
:20:55. > :21:05.votes and these guys did. It was rejected by the pollsters. Alex,
:21:05. > :21:10.Alex. Leave the questions to me. I want to go into this, it is
:21:10. > :21:15.important for us to talk about this. Disability living allowance. Some
:21:16. > :21:20.of you might not know this, it is going to be replaced with something
:21:20. > :21:24.called for working-age people, the personal independence payment. One
:21:24. > :21:29.of the things that will happen under this new legislation is
:21:29. > :21:33.everybody will be assessed. This is why this is important. Northern
:21:33. > :21:39.Ireland has the highest rates of disability living allowance claims
:21:39. > :21:44.in the UK. 10% of our population. In that category, a high as
:21:44. > :21:49.claimants are people with mental health problems. How comfortable
:21:49. > :21:52.are you if you voted for this bill? Is it a red line for you making
:21:52. > :21:59.sure that assessment does not traumatise people who are already
:21:59. > :22:03.mentally ill? There has to be massive scrutiny of this? If is
:22:03. > :22:09.important that people who do have problems, whether their problems
:22:09. > :22:14.are mental or physical, are not further distressed. They will be
:22:14. > :22:19.assessed people on a three-yearly basis. And then maybe some people
:22:19. > :22:24.whose circumstances won't change with it is three years or 30 years.
:22:24. > :22:28.There is not a specific Northern Ireland target where we will see
:22:28. > :22:34.payments going down by 20%. If people are entitled to it, they
:22:34. > :22:38.will receive it. On the issues of physical problems and mental health,
:22:38. > :22:41.there are charities in Northern Ireland who are working at a
:22:41. > :22:47.national level with the department to ensure some of those issues you
:22:47. > :22:54.are talking about and potential problems that are they do not
:22:54. > :22:57.materialise. What is the safety checks within the assessment?
:22:57. > :23:04.People go for an assessment. Going for an assessment regularly for
:23:04. > :23:11.some people may be beneficial. will be assessed once, somebody
:23:11. > :23:15.will call out to their house. What is the assessment safety check?
:23:15. > :23:18.assessment is made and then it goes to the department and the
:23:18. > :23:25.Department makes a decision on the basis of that evidence and other
:23:25. > :23:31.evidence as well. Do you know what company is doing it? I do not know.
:23:31. > :23:36.But you voted for the bill? contract has not been done.
:23:36. > :23:41.only point I am trying to make his there is a lot to prove isn't
:23:41. > :23:45.there? I am not sure what relevance the company doing the work will be
:23:45. > :23:53.to the principles of the bill. We were voting on the principles of
:23:53. > :23:58.the bill. It was not on who will be carrying out the contract. What you
:23:58. > :24:02.have already, you have a privatised company which will do work
:24:02. > :24:08.capability assessment. They have not been given the contract, they
:24:08. > :24:12.are on a shortlist. They have been doing work for the department. The
:24:12. > :24:17.Department a week ago was telling us that the system is flawed and
:24:17. > :24:22.they are trying to fix it. Reassess people, that is fine, but you have
:24:22. > :24:26.to put the medical evidence, doctors' reports have to be at the
:24:26. > :24:31.heart of any reassessment. You cannot have a privatised company
:24:31. > :24:36.coming in with no medical expertise. Will it be at the heart of the
:24:36. > :24:46.assessment? It is not at the heart of the assessment. Would that be a
:24:46. > :24:46.
:24:46. > :24:55.red line for you. We have not said that. With respect, it is either a
:24:55. > :25:02.deal breaker or it is not. We have said it one of the fundamental
:25:02. > :25:08.issues that have to be addressed, yes. Then say yes. You can call it
:25:08. > :25:11.what you want. We have an organisation, we will do our level
:25:12. > :25:15.best now the bill has been transferred into our committee. I
:25:15. > :25:21.will be meeting the British Government as part of the party
:25:21. > :25:26.delegation. We will make a decision then. But it is a fundamental
:25:26. > :25:36.problem. You are starting to get a sense already it is one of the
:25:36. > :25:37.
:25:37. > :25:41.issues in this Bill. Even before this Bill there were changes are
:25:41. > :25:45.made to benefits that are starting to kick in. They are having a
:25:46. > :25:50.dramatic impact. I went to North Belfast to meet some young lads who
:25:50. > :25:56.are out of work. One of the changes already brought in, is under 35
:25:56. > :26:00.goals will have their housing benefit cut in half. SmartMove is a
:26:00. > :26:03.housing organisation that helps them and you can see how important
:26:03. > :26:07.it is to some of these people because they do not want to be seen
:26:07. > :26:12.on camera. The rule come in last year that
:26:12. > :26:21.anybody under 35 would get a cut in their housing benefit. From �86 a
:26:21. > :26:25.week down to �43 a week. Bishop not be entitled to a one-bedroomed flat
:26:25. > :26:30.is somebody working was not able to afford a one-bedroomed flat.
:26:30. > :26:36.are living in a house at the moment. What will happen in the next few
:26:36. > :26:45.months? I do not know. And God only knows. You will be hit with a rent
:26:45. > :26:51.bill, can you pay it? If you get �40 a week, �10 goes to Electricity,
:26:51. > :26:56.�10 goes towards gas. �10 goes towards food. If you have children,
:26:56. > :27:04.how do you feed them, clothe them. How do you get them to and from
:27:04. > :27:09.clothes? Do you have children? I do. Do they live with you? No, I
:27:09. > :27:13.am separated, but I see them at the weekends. If you cannot afford your
:27:13. > :27:19.own house, you'll have a shared house and the kids will come to
:27:19. > :27:23.your shares house? I won't have a shared house, I am not letting them
:27:24. > :27:28.meet anyone. I won't put them in that situation. I would rather get
:27:28. > :27:34.a tent and camp. But least you know they are safe because they are with
:27:34. > :27:40.you. Have you got any chance in the medium or short-term future of
:27:41. > :27:46.living in a house? Not a hope. I cannot consider. It is not a viable
:27:46. > :27:54.option. And then get thrown in with people you do not know to live with.
:27:54. > :28:00.It is not fair. How old are you? How is it affecting you and your
:28:00. > :28:04.life? I have no where else to go. When my lease runs out in November.
:28:04. > :28:09.If you are going to put people in shared accommodate -- shared
:28:09. > :28:18.accommodation, you will see a rise in suicide rates. That has shocked
:28:18. > :28:23.me. Suicide? You feel inadequate. have met you a few minutes ago. You
:28:23. > :28:29.have used the word suicide and you have talked about being inadequate.
:28:29. > :28:35.Why do you feel like that? There are no jobs. I had two interviews
:28:35. > :28:45.last week. There's nothing out there. At that is why I go down to
:28:45. > :28:47.
:28:47. > :28:51.the gym. And then I think about Of our people out there working ten
:28:51. > :28:54.hours a day, there is nobody subsidising their housing, so if
:28:54. > :28:59.they cannot afford a house, they have do Shearer, so why shouldn't
:28:59. > :29:03.you? The does not my fault there is no jobs out there. By looking for
:29:03. > :29:08.jobs, I am doing a course at the moment. It is hard going out there
:29:08. > :29:12.and I am trying to better myself. It is a hateful place, going on the
:29:12. > :29:16.brew. So people would argue that people like you should find harder
:29:16. > :29:21.to get a job. You're not going to be able to stay in a jet -- in a
:29:21. > :29:25.house that suits you unless you can pay for it yourself. The state is
:29:25. > :29:31.not funding your lifestyle any more. It is not funding my lifestyle, it
:29:31. > :29:35.is funding my living. I need food, I need sleep, I need to keep my
:29:35. > :29:40.children in a safe environment. Physically, you can run into a
:29:40. > :29:44.brick wall as much as you can. After Robert the seventh or eighth
:29:44. > :29:49.time, you will realise it is a brick wall. The percentage that
:29:49. > :29:54.don't get jobs, there is nothing out there. You keep getting slapped,
:29:54. > :29:58.until you can get slapped no more. Have you sat back and thought about
:29:58. > :30:05.the realistic prospect that you will be in a hostel or shared
:30:05. > :30:08.accommodation? I am 30 years of age, and I think I am big and ugly
:30:08. > :30:14.enough to try and work into a situation where I know what I am
:30:14. > :30:17.going to do. But it is in the lap of the gods, basically. I am not
:30:17. > :30:22.asking for a handout, but opportunities. We just need a
:30:22. > :30:25.chance, simple as that. Now, for all of you who talk about
:30:25. > :30:30.benefit scroungers and wasters, all that type of language we sometimes
:30:30. > :30:35.hear, are you seriously telling me those guys don't feel as if they
:30:35. > :30:38.want to make something of themselves? As that guys said, he
:30:38. > :30:43.is coming up and get -- against a brick wall. There is a young guy
:30:43. > :30:47.here, heady you feel when you see that film? They are being told,
:30:47. > :30:52.moved into a house and share with someone else. By the way, and it
:30:52. > :31:00.would be popular for me to say this, wealthy pensioners? They get a free
:31:00. > :31:04.bus pass no problem. Sorry, mum! Universal benefit for pensioners?
:31:04. > :31:08.Winter fuel allowance, we will give unit, no matter how rich you are.
:31:08. > :31:12.If you are a certain age, no, you are targeted.
:31:12. > :31:17.I am a community worker in Bangor, and I work with younger people from
:31:17. > :31:20.disadvantaged communities in the North Down area. There is a small
:31:20. > :31:24.percentage of people who tried to swindle ahead and don't want to
:31:24. > :31:28.work, but under almost young people want to work. The opportunities are
:31:28. > :31:33.not there for them. Two weeks ago, I had a young fellow who wanted to
:31:33. > :31:36.go back to full-time education, and they were going to cut his
:31:36. > :31:39.Jobseekers' Allowance. He would have to pay for it himself, and
:31:39. > :31:43.that but the man in a impossible position. When you force young
:31:43. > :31:46.people in an impossible position, people and disadvantaged
:31:46. > :31:51.communities start to go down to crime or drug dealing to try and
:31:51. > :31:54.make money. One important point back a bit like to make his, the
:31:54. > :32:00.people making these decisions, they are not worrying about where the
:32:00. > :32:03.next heating is coming from... These people, here, politicians in
:32:03. > :32:07.Northern Ireland. The point is, they are kind of telling you the
:32:07. > :32:11.decisions are being made across the water. I mean people across the
:32:11. > :32:18.water, as well. David Cameron was born with a silver spoon in his
:32:18. > :32:28.breath. Margaret, hello. What do you think?
:32:28. > :32:31.TELEPHONE :. Stephen, I'll tell you but I think, I am a full-time carer.
:32:31. > :32:38.I am up at six o'clock in the morning, seven o'clock in the
:32:38. > :32:43.evening. I get �674 per month in my bank account. A lady that lives not
:32:43. > :32:50.too far away from me, she stopped me at Tesco's, more or less looked
:32:50. > :32:54.down on me and laughed at me, and she said, you're getting �600? She
:32:54. > :33:01.laughed at that. She said, I get Disability living Allowance because
:33:01. > :33:08.I am depressed, because my husband is an alcoholic. He is on DLA, have
:33:08. > :33:13.at heart. I have an 18-year-old son, who lives with me... Tried get the
:33:14. > :33:17.point, Margaret. Thank you for your call. Yes, sir.
:33:18. > :33:22.By worked for a solid 25 years' unbroken employment and got paid
:33:22. > :33:27.off five years ago. In the six month period, I was out of work for
:33:27. > :33:32.one week. There are temping agencies out there, places to go if
:33:32. > :33:36.you really want a job. I improve, I am in full-time employment now
:33:36. > :33:39.because I went and looked for a job. I am not against this, but there
:33:39. > :33:44.are foreign nationals coming into the country, and they are earning
:33:44. > :33:49.money. They are prepared to do whatever they want. Did you know
:33:49. > :33:52.what to Government figures show? There are 40,000 were employed now
:33:52. > :33:57.than five years ago. We're not suggesting there are 40,001 lazy
:33:57. > :34:04.people. A no, I am not saying there are not genuine cases of people who
:34:04. > :34:09.cannot get a job, I am not saying that. But, I got a job. All right.
:34:09. > :34:13.The lady at the front. I would like to say, when we talk
:34:13. > :34:20.about availability of jobs, the vast majority of jobs have been
:34:20. > :34:23.created in at Northern Ireland at present are very low wages and part
:34:23. > :34:29.time. Those on part-time wages get working tax credit, or family tax
:34:29. > :34:36.credit. You and I as taxpayers subsidising big business to pay low
:34:36. > :34:39.wages on part-time contracts. The guy at the front. This is an
:34:39. > :34:45.example of people in Westminster making decisions about a class they
:34:45. > :34:49.have no clue about. But the DUP and Sinn Fein, they present themselves
:34:49. > :34:53.as baddies of the working class. But because of Westminster, have
:34:54. > :35:01.their hands are tied. What is the point of having them? I have been
:35:01. > :35:05.on benefits for two years. It is not always the people. I founded a
:35:05. > :35:08.charity for stillbirths in Northern Ireland, and I get up and go to
:35:08. > :35:13.work as a volunteer, I get my benefits but I volunteered every
:35:13. > :35:17.day of my life, and I was working seven days a week to do that. I
:35:17. > :35:21.tell you what, there are no jobs are at their. Maybe the politicians
:35:21. > :35:27.should sort out a political reform or implement reform to -- before
:35:27. > :35:37.they start picking on people looking for jobs.
:35:37. > :35:37.
:35:37. > :35:43.You both saw that film they're off than people who are incredibly
:35:43. > :35:49.compelling. Call three of them were incredibly compelling, genuine
:35:49. > :35:52.young men who wanted employing -- employment. What if I paid to you
:35:52. > :35:56.that you are letting them down because you a load the legislation
:35:56. > :36:02.to go through? It started across the water, and it got here. --
:36:02. > :36:05.allowed the legislation. They rely on you, and on you, and on the
:36:05. > :36:09.political system, and they are being targeted because of their age.
:36:09. > :36:14.They have been told to share a house, is that fear? There to be --
:36:14. > :36:18.been told the benefits are being cut, is that fair? Has I don't
:36:18. > :36:22.think it is fair. At the end of the Day, Westminster pays the bill.
:36:22. > :36:27.Where is the hope for these guys? think the film was incredibly
:36:27. > :36:33.powerful, and we can talk about principles, but that is the reality.
:36:33. > :36:38.What is important moving forward, that everybody is treated as an
:36:38. > :36:42.individual. But they are not! They are treated as Under 30 five-year-
:36:42. > :36:47.olds. It is important in terms of dealing with these people as
:36:47. > :36:51.individuals, not as statistics. would you respond to that, would
:36:51. > :36:55.you admit you have let those people down? They have no hope because of
:36:55. > :36:58.this message from Westminster. talk to people like that in my
:36:58. > :37:04.constituency all the time, I tried to represent people across
:37:04. > :37:07.different communities. This type of bill, this type of attack on people
:37:07. > :37:12.affect all communities. Particularly working-class
:37:12. > :37:15.communities and people on low pay. I can understand what people don't
:37:16. > :37:20.understand about this. We voted against the Bill, we were trying to
:37:20. > :37:26.stop the bill. He was against it, you were against it the legislation
:37:26. > :37:29.now in place at messing up those under 35-year-old wife. It doesn't
:37:29. > :37:34.matter if you were against it, it is legislated for, it is here, they
:37:34. > :37:38.will be met out of their homes. just forget about it all then. The
:37:38. > :37:42.point I am making is, we were against key issues of the bill. We
:37:42. > :37:49.will be doing our best, but on top of all that, this morning the first
:37:50. > :37:54.and Deputy First Minister of made at a �27 million investment to help
:37:54. > :37:58.highly qualified graduates still not working. Where the highest
:37:58. > :38:01.qualified unemployed people on these islands. People were queuing
:38:02. > :38:06.out of their daughter get in here tonight, and I appreciate Simon,
:38:06. > :38:14.you coming income and Alex Maskey. Please give them a round of
:38:14. > :38:18.applause. APPLAUSE.
:38:18. > :38:21.Please continue to call income If think welfare reform will be one of
:38:21. > :38:25.the big topics The Nolan Show will be concentrating on.
:38:25. > :38:31.Here is what is still to come tonight. They usually caused havoc
:38:31. > :38:41.when they appear on TV, but what a Jedward going to get up to tonight?
:38:41. > :38:43.
:38:43. > :38:47.They are live on this studio. There is an issue get into boiling
:38:47. > :38:53.point among some parents of school children in Northern Ireland. It is
:38:53. > :38:59.about school uniforms. Parents have been telling me there are schools
:38:59. > :39:02.forcing parents to buy their kids branded kit. Many of the schools
:39:02. > :39:07.are also floating Department of Education guidelines. They seem to
:39:07. > :39:10.be getting away with it. Added to Banbridge to make it -- meet the
:39:10. > :39:13.Thompson family to hear what is happening to them.
:39:13. > :39:18.It's school uniforms were brought in so that nobody was made to feel
:39:18. > :39:24.different. The most expensive clothing my kids have is their P
:39:24. > :39:27.uniform, because as a rule my children do not wear branded goods.
:39:27. > :39:31.-- physical education uniform. When it comes to school uniform, you
:39:31. > :39:38.have to be able to afford it. me through some of the costs
:39:38. > :39:46.involved here. For an added a sport -- topic of 25%. For Tanya's topic
:39:46. > :39:50.was �20. For this topic was �20, and for Chris's topic was �20. They
:39:50. > :39:55.do physical education once, possibly twice a week, so for two
:39:55. > :40:02.allows a week you are spending upwards of �200 on two kids for two
:40:02. > :40:07.uniforms. And that doesn't include trainers or shin pads. Our other
:40:07. > :40:10.love to know what value system these skills - and it is not just
:40:10. > :40:13.Banbridge but across Northern Ireland - I'd love to know what
:40:13. > :40:17.value system they think they are instilling in children in Northern
:40:17. > :40:23.Ireland these days, that bands should matter and not how good they
:40:23. > :40:27.are at sport. It is not something I have instilled in my children.
:40:27. > :40:30.is what you're school are saying to these children. It is not something
:40:30. > :40:36.I haven't told my children, but something the school is. To me,
:40:36. > :40:41.that is a show-off and a rip-off, an absolute rip-off. Well, let's
:40:41. > :40:49.take a look at the prices some schools are charging. A strut their
:40:49. > :40:59.goody - �28. And a top, �33. Socks, �8.
:40:59. > :41:04.Crowborough socks - �9. An athletics vest - �20.
:41:04. > :41:07.The Jews a goal, a rugby school, �15, know all whatsoever. Two years
:41:07. > :41:13.later, the schools say they consulted the parents and, guess
:41:14. > :41:23.what? They decided the kids needed to be forced to have our logo top.
:41:24. > :41:24.
:41:24. > :41:27.What happens to the price? It doubles. �15, up to �30. Can you
:41:27. > :41:31.justify a doubling in the price? Have you thought about it? And the
:41:31. > :41:37.bigger question - what does it do to a child he feels isolated
:41:37. > :41:47.because they cannot afford it? One grammar school at -- responded
:41:47. > :41:54.
:41:54. > :41:58.The idea might be trendy, but this former principal says it was
:41:58. > :42:06.essential to keep costs down. I realised at that time, these kids
:42:06. > :42:09.could never afford that. The old uniform grant had built into it �25
:42:09. > :42:14.for a physical education kit. By David that ceiling. As soon as I
:42:14. > :42:20.said that, they get companies disappeared, because they could not
:42:20. > :42:30.give it to me for 25p. That was ten years ago. Here are the guidelines
:42:30. > :42:43.
:42:43. > :42:48.from the Department of Education. These schools are asking children
:42:48. > :42:54.to stick to rules, stick to guidelines and they are riding
:42:54. > :42:59.roughshod all over the departments of Education guidelines. Don't tell
:42:59. > :43:07.me it is guidelines. I should be able to send them in black shorts,
:43:07. > :43:10.a blue top, a black skirt and a white top. But you're not allowed.
:43:10. > :43:15.Sports retailers say the guidelines are out of touch with the realities
:43:15. > :43:20.of market forces. But many parents are demanding answers. It is clear
:43:20. > :43:28.so many schools are flouting the rules. Net speak to the man in
:43:28. > :43:35.charge, education minister, John O'Dowd. Hello Minister. How are
:43:35. > :43:42.you? There is a lot of parents, as you know, incredibly angry and we
:43:42. > :43:46.had just heard from one on the programme tonight. Where we are,
:43:46. > :43:54.schools are insisting on branded low goes for the sports kit. What
:43:54. > :44:02.is your view? PE kits are part of school uniform so that they fall
:44:02. > :44:06.under the guidelines. We issued a guidance to remind schools of their
:44:06. > :44:14.responsibilities. If costs are very high, they are potentially
:44:14. > :44:19.excluding pupils from their schools. �23 for a grant, wouldn't buy a
:44:20. > :44:28.pair of shorts. It is to assist multinational companies increase
:44:28. > :44:33.their profits. The board of governors need to set a policy.
:44:33. > :44:43.They are charging too much for uniforms. They are restricting the
:44:43. > :44:44.
:44:44. > :44:52.number of shops parents can buy it in. Instead of increasing this
:44:52. > :44:57.grants, is wrong. Parents cannot afford it, he will fight for them?
:44:57. > :45:01.Legislation is not always the answer. We should continue engaging
:45:01. > :45:06.with the schools. Parents should engage with the schools. If we
:45:06. > :45:12.don't have results than we will have to refer it again. Why don't
:45:12. > :45:19.more parents take the schools on? Nobody wants to go up against the
:45:19. > :45:23.schools because they don't want... I am speaking to you and I am
:45:23. > :45:31.afraid that my kids are going to hear about it at school. You are
:45:31. > :45:39.clearly not just angry, I can see it, it does upset you? It really
:45:39. > :45:44.does upset me. I know what they have missed out on. For what? AP
:45:44. > :45:50.uniform with a brand name. It sickens me. If I wanted to buy
:45:50. > :45:55.branded goods for my kids, it should be my choice. I know lots of
:45:55. > :46:05.you as parents will be discussing this at home. We wrote letters to
:46:05. > :46:10.both Banbridge schools featured in that film. Only three of them would
:46:10. > :46:19.say anything about it. What is going on in Northern Ireland?
:46:19. > :46:28.Wellington School, �39 for a top. �39! What else have we got here.
:46:28. > :46:34.This one, �50. You tell me, �50! I do not know what the answer is, but
:46:34. > :46:38.has there been thought gone in? Is that isolating the child? Is it
:46:38. > :46:42.making a child feel, and for every school to wringers, is it making
:46:42. > :46:48.any children or any parents feeling they are not good enough because
:46:48. > :46:53.they cannot where the logo? And when we rights to the schools, the
:46:53. > :46:59.majority say, we must not get involved. We cannot publicly talk
:46:59. > :47:05.about it. And all the kids, you are trying to instil in these children,
:47:05. > :47:11.discipline, respect and the fact they are equal. Discipline and
:47:12. > :47:18.respect the rules and regulations. A lot of these schools in Northern
:47:18. > :47:24.Ireland are doing - and a lot of kids should watch this because this
:47:24. > :47:31.is what they're doing. They are ripping up the department that
:47:32. > :47:36.education's guidelines. And then they do not talk about it. We did
:47:36. > :47:45.contact both schools featured in that film and they both did not
:47:45. > :47:50.want to comment. Hello Colin. What do you think about this? Ridiculous.
:47:50. > :47:56.Tell me your situation? It was the school uniforms themselves, I could
:47:56. > :48:01.not afford my older son's uniform to send him to school. He missed
:48:01. > :48:06.school for over a week. And the youngest boy, I still don't have
:48:06. > :48:11.their P G E uniform for that, I cannot afford it. What was the
:48:11. > :48:17.result, you did not have the money to buy a PE kits, how did it make
:48:17. > :48:21.you feel as a parent? He went in with normal shorts and T-shirt and
:48:21. > :48:28.the school did not tell him off, but there will come a time when
:48:28. > :48:32.they will. Is it that important? To all of the headmaster's, and the
:48:32. > :48:39.board of governors he refused to talk about this. Is a logo that
:48:39. > :48:44.important? You are a retailer? What do you think? I had been seen this
:48:44. > :48:49.for a few years from different parents coming into my shop. They
:48:49. > :48:54.were surprised, they were surprised by the big jump in the price. They
:48:54. > :48:59.complain to me and I said, talk to the school. It is the only way. It
:48:59. > :49:03.you think it is a problem, they will be the ones to deal with it. I
:49:03. > :49:11.refuse to stock any of the branded kit. I thought it was morally wrong
:49:11. > :49:18.to do so. And no you think there is a conspiracy going on. I don't
:49:18. > :49:21.think anything, but I am pushed for time. I am saying this, has every
:49:21. > :49:26.school in Northern Ireland really discussed and sat down and thought
:49:26. > :49:31.about whether they are isolating a child? Whether a child feels
:49:31. > :49:39.isolated and does not feel equal because he cannot afford a logo on
:49:39. > :49:47.his shirt? We will continue this discussion and you can pick up the
:49:47. > :49:56.telephone on the radio show. It you want to send information about your
:49:56. > :49:59.school, please do so, we might come back to it. Jedward will be with us
:49:59. > :50:09.in just a minute, but here's a quick reminder of how you can get
:50:09. > :50:33.
:50:33. > :50:36.Now, the moment you have all been waiting for. I am terrified. My
:50:36. > :50:39.next guests shot to fame three years ago on X Factor. Simon Cowell
:50:39. > :50:42.called them "two of the most annoying people we have had out
:50:42. > :50:44.here in a long, long time". But somehow, they've managed to
:50:44. > :50:54.represent Ireland twice at Eurovision. Ladies and gentlemen
:50:54. > :51:08.
:51:08. > :51:14.please welcome - Jedward! I was sitting back they're watching
:51:14. > :51:24.you on television. I am terrified of youth. We have flat her. You are
:51:24. > :51:26.
:51:26. > :51:33.mad. No, you are mad. You are crazy. Why is your her flat? There was no
:51:33. > :51:38.hairspray. I woke up this morning. I had my hair like this because I
:51:38. > :51:44.was trying to play the guitar. He wanted to do his her like this. I
:51:44. > :51:48.said I don't want to do it like that. I said I will have mind this
:51:48. > :51:58.way, and he will have his that weight. Stephen Nolan will ask
:51:58. > :52:00.
:52:00. > :52:08.about it. You do get any really into things. So, we are here right
:52:08. > :52:17.now. We are in Belfast, lied. feel like I am going to play poker.
:52:17. > :52:23.Do you like this joke. Those two guys who were on earlier were very
:52:23. > :52:31.serious. I can tell you something. One of those serious guys asked for
:52:31. > :52:41.an autograph for one of his relatives. You can work it out.
:52:41. > :52:51.was the one in the grey suit. have given it away. There are crazy
:52:51. > :52:54.
:52:54. > :52:58.fans outside. It is great to be here. We have 40 and 50 year-olds
:52:58. > :53:08.in his audience screaming pitch Jedward. This lady at the very
:53:08. > :53:08.
:53:08. > :53:16.front, why did you just point to yourself? Tell me why you like Jed
:53:16. > :53:26.that -- Jedward. They are good boys, they are brilliant. Congratulations
:53:26. > :53:33.on your 700,000 Twitter followers. You get a more Twitter followers.
:53:33. > :53:43.You have two microphones, is that in case one goes off? Can you sing
:53:43. > :53:44.
:53:44. > :53:54.any opera? No, and I am not singing tonight. Can I sing opera? Can you
:53:54. > :53:59.sing?! We have got three albums. And you
:53:59. > :54:09.had a new one out. The it is called young love. She shall we have a
:54:09. > :54:11.
:54:11. > :54:21.listen? Party. # I can see you glowing in the dark.
:54:21. > :54:21.
:54:21. > :54:31.# We are always going to be luminous.
:54:31. > :54:32.
:54:32. > :54:42.# I will always know where you are. # I can see you glow in the dark.
:54:42. > :54:45.
:54:45. > :54:53.I will open my shirts if you open yours. Is that really you? No, it
:54:53. > :55:02.is a stunt double. I had to put a green screen on my body. You cannot
:55:02. > :55:08.see it. I am only messing. Some people to work out too much.
:55:08. > :55:15.just a few minutes we had, I want to find out a bit about you. Born
:55:15. > :55:21.premature? We were meant to be born in January but we were born in
:55:21. > :55:28.October. My parents did not have anything ready and then we happened.
:55:28. > :55:33.You did get bullied in school? And I see lots of kids, and lots of
:55:33. > :55:40.kids follow you. They do admire you, what was the bullying like in
:55:40. > :55:46.school? It gives us so much. And we can give a lot back to them when
:55:46. > :55:54.they tell us. What happened to you in school? There was always a
:55:54. > :56:04.certain group that belt we were wrong. What did they do do you?
:56:04. > :56:11.lot of things, I don't want to talk about it. Typical stuff. Call us
:56:11. > :56:19.names and different things. How did you handle it? We had each other.
:56:19. > :56:24.Four people in school who don't have the twin orc a best friend. We
:56:24. > :56:29.are there for our fans. Some of our fans have been bullied in school.
:56:29. > :56:39.It is usually in school, it is like a battlefield. But outside school
:56:39. > :56:44.you had your own friends. Our fans had made fans across the world.
:56:44. > :56:49.Jedward fans is a huge community. All this stuff about the X Factor
:56:49. > :56:59.fix. Is it fixed? This controversy over the last few weeks, are the
:56:59. > :57:06.judges told by the judges who to pick? We have been in Orkney on a
:57:06. > :57:11.mountain. Freezing. Then people asking, did you hear about it?
:57:11. > :57:20.Louis Walsh was asking to go to the toilet and the producers alike,
:57:20. > :57:28.hold on for a couple of minutes, it is nearly over. What?! I don't know.
:57:28. > :57:33.When you have got to go, you have got to go. And the producer has
:57:33. > :57:37.probably been on it for the last nine years and wanted to be on TV.
:57:37. > :57:45.There was a little dip in the ground and they can put water in
:57:45. > :57:55.that and they can have a paddle pool. You are mad. I am not mad.
:57:55. > :57:56.
:57:56. > :58:04.What are you doing Christmas? are you getting on writing your own
:58:04. > :58:14.stuff for the next album? John is writing songs. All-time pop classic
:58:14. > :58:14.
:58:14. > :58:20.hits. Over 30 songs so far. It is not like indie rock songs, but pop