:00:10. > :00:13.said they can deliver a Shared Future for us all. Empty words, or a
:00:13. > :00:19.once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that we should all be backing?
:00:19. > :00:24.Forward-thinking, or a thorn in the side of the Catholic Church?
:00:24. > :00:32.Father Brian D'Arcy is here. And tonight we will be scoring a special
:00:32. > :00:36.surprise for one of our own. You are in on it, I am in on it, the
:00:36. > :00:46.audience at home are in on it, that all of this not gathered to pay
:00:46. > :00:50.
:00:50. > :01:00.tribute to one of Ballymena's finest know nothing about it. -- but all of
:01:00. > :01:09.
:01:09. > :01:13.Hello. The First and Deputy First Minister have finally unveiled new
:01:13. > :01:18.plans they say will help future generations to live and work
:01:18. > :01:22.together in Northern Ireland. Peter Robinson described them as the most
:01:22. > :01:27.ambitious set of proposals on the subject ever. Peter Robinson was
:01:27. > :01:34.brimming with optimism at this announcement. Our vision is of a
:01:34. > :01:38.united community, based on equality of opportunity, the desirability of
:01:38. > :01:45.good relations and reconciliation... But within days the tone had
:01:45. > :01:50.changed. Tonight, listening to the type of Jeremiah Test that infest
:01:50. > :01:58.the political process and whose first thought is to attack any
:01:58. > :02:02.genuine attempt to bring forward positive proposals. Danny Kennedy,
:02:02. > :02:07.you one that he's talking about. Why not embrace this rather than being a
:02:07. > :02:11.Jeremiah, as he described it? Jeremiah wanted people to do the
:02:11. > :02:15.right thing, and that is what the Ulster Unionist Party is committed
:02:15. > :02:21.to, and making sure that Northern Ireland, the people of Northern
:02:21. > :02:31.Ireland, that we do right for them... But stop whingeing, scoring
:02:31. > :02:33.
:02:33. > :02:38.political points. The reaction last week... I am not a so-what
:02:38. > :02:42.politician. I want the best for the people of Northern Ireland. This is
:02:42. > :02:46.a relatively young audience. They want to move forward in keeping with
:02:46. > :02:52.the rest of Northern Ireland. I want to play my part as an executive
:02:52. > :02:56.minister in my party and my party is entitled to play its part as part of
:02:56. > :03:01.that executive in bringing forward a better future. How frustrated,
:03:01. > :03:06.Jeffrey Donaldson, really is your party, or is this just playing to
:03:06. > :03:16.the gallery? The First Minister goes on about whingeing and all of this
:03:16. > :03:17.
:03:18. > :03:21.rhetoric... A lot of people are frustrated, and not least the 46,000
:03:21. > :03:26.young people in our community who are unemployed or not in education
:03:26. > :03:29.or training. Some of them, I guess, who are here this evening, many of
:03:29. > :03:32.whom are watching this programme. They are wondering what the future
:03:32. > :03:36.holds. Some of them are contemplating New Zealand,
:03:37. > :03:41.Australia, Canada, somewhere else where they might find the future
:03:41. > :03:45.they cannot at home. They are fed up of the bickering, the fighting and
:03:45. > :03:50.the squabbling and they want to seek action from politicians, from us,
:03:50. > :03:54.from every of us around this table, and what Peter Robinson has set out
:03:54. > :04:03.in this agenda is action. It moves us yonder on the finally, the
:04:03. > :04:06.debate, the discussion. -- moves us beyond. But people are fed up with
:04:06. > :04:11.in action. They want to see politicians delivering, especially
:04:11. > :04:17.for the people Danny talked about, those young people who want jobs.
:04:17. > :04:21.They are such fine words they could merely be in a glossy brochure but
:04:21. > :04:30.when Peter Robinson was talking about the whingers and the Jeremiah
:04:30. > :04:34.Test he is talking about people in your own party. -- Jeremiahs.
:04:34. > :04:40.all need to move this beyond the wrangling and the infighting...
:04:40. > :04:46.are part of the wrangling... When your party walked out of the
:04:46. > :04:50.discussions, Danny, it did not help. When you exclude yourself, what does
:04:51. > :04:56.that say to the young people you want to appeal to? The old party
:04:56. > :05:06.walked out as well. At least the STL P stayed in the room. People want
:05:06. > :05:09.
:05:09. > :05:15.action and this is about action. - the STL P. -- the SDLP. Our actions
:05:15. > :05:21.of walking out at that point have England indicated. The First
:05:21. > :05:25.Minister and Deputy First Minister made announcement that appeared to
:05:25. > :05:32.be positive. I welcome the announcements. I simply need to see
:05:32. > :05:38.more detail. You lot walked away, too. Saying you have a statement of
:05:38. > :05:43.proposals from... This is a massively important issue. You have
:05:43. > :05:47.set yourself in the radio show the cost of division in Northern Ireland
:05:47. > :05:50.is approximately �1 billion per year so when we are looking to attract
:05:50. > :05:57.investment, improve education, create jobs, that is money that
:05:57. > :06:05.could be used. In 2007 it was said that it cost us 1.5 B in pounds.
:06:05. > :06:08.Think about that. And you lot cannot sort it. That is why I am passionate
:06:08. > :06:12.about this issue and right to scrutinise how the proposals
:06:12. > :06:20.actually stack up to the challenge. Let's look at the hard issues,
:06:20. > :06:23.education, for example. Before we do so, I want to be fair to you all, so
:06:23. > :06:27.let's be fair to the First and Deputy First Minister, Peter
:06:28. > :06:32.Robinson and Martin McGuinness, because they stood in front of us
:06:32. > :06:38.all and said they reckon they can deliver. Sinn Fein, they could not
:06:38. > :06:41.make anybody available for this discussion on our Shared Future
:06:41. > :06:46.around the country, so think about that. The biggest nationalist party
:06:46. > :06:52.in the country and they could not find anybody to be part of a
:06:52. > :06:59.discussion on the Shared Future. Think about that. You let me say it.
:06:59. > :07:09.Hold on, I want to take stock of what is said so let's take a look at
:07:09. > :07:24.
:07:24. > :07:28.this. This is what Peter Robinson things at that and saying it is not
:07:28. > :07:33.good enough. I do not think that is a fair reflection of what the SDLP
:07:33. > :07:39.said and I have to pick up on Chris is as point. In the talks around the
:07:39. > :07:49.Shared Future you will note that the SDLP submitted a number of
:07:49. > :07:50.
:07:50. > :07:55.proposals. The SDLP supports positive action. Once... That is not
:07:55. > :08:00.what I have heard. Whether it is real or not, is that an
:08:00. > :08:04.opportunity? Should this country the grabbing it with both hands? I think
:08:04. > :08:11.we should grab anything with both hands that is going to improve
:08:11. > :08:16.immunity relations. My only son house left for Australia to go to
:08:16. > :08:22.work so I feel very personally the lack of opportunity for young
:08:22. > :08:28.people. I would like to see the collective executive looking at the
:08:28. > :08:33.marketplace. It is a good start but not enough. I was at a function
:08:33. > :08:37.yesterday and I heard there was a gap in skills in carpentry on
:08:37. > :08:43.fitting out of boats, for example. I would like to hear how those gaps
:08:43. > :08:50.are going to be filled. How does that help us in the Shared Future,
:08:50. > :08:54.fixing boats? It is a job.But that is not what we are talking about. Is
:08:54. > :08:58.this not interesting, but here we have an opportunity tonight to talk
:08:58. > :09:06.about a Shared Future and you are talking about boats. No, I'm talking
:09:06. > :09:12.about jobs. Jobs. Do not be facetious. Jobs are really important
:09:12. > :09:15.that this is an opportunity tonight... I am talking about 10,000
:09:15. > :09:18.work experience places and what of those young people to do at the
:09:18. > :09:23.outcome of that? Just worked together for a year and then go back
:09:23. > :09:27.into your own areas where you do not have an opportunity? This is about
:09:27. > :09:32.providing real jobs and taking people out of poverty and giving
:09:32. > :09:42.them hope for the future. Let's have a look at how you can get in touch
:09:42. > :09:46.
:09:46. > :09:55.with us this evening. The numbers are on your screen. They make me
:09:55. > :10:01.read this. While you are calling us, is that something that anyone in
:10:01. > :10:06.this audience can get excited about, those 10,000 placements. Clearly,
:10:06. > :10:10.Dolores does not think it is enough. I would just like to ask the panel,
:10:10. > :10:15.in the interests of a Shared Future, should the panel not be
:10:15. > :10:19.concentrating on real issues that unite us all, such as... I have seen
:10:19. > :10:28.this problem come together like never before on the subject of
:10:28. > :10:36.residential home closures. What the reality of that really meant to the
:10:36. > :10:40.older people in our community really brought the province together like
:10:40. > :10:45.never before. Do you not think that is a better way of bringing
:10:45. > :10:52.communities together? Thank you. Indifferent. Wait until we get a
:10:52. > :10:58.microphone to you. I am doing an employment scheme at the minute and
:10:58. > :11:01.I'm just wondering how you are going to support these 10,000 work
:11:01. > :11:08.placements? What support will be there at the start, the middle and
:11:08. > :11:17.the finish Ye obviously there will have to be a financial incentive for
:11:17. > :11:23.the people who take part. It is not just a young people's placement. We
:11:23. > :11:31.have had some of the biggest organisations in Northern Ireland
:11:31. > :11:35.coming forward and saying they want to help. Would they not be wanting
:11:35. > :11:45.to sing it from the rooftops, impressing a campaign to bring our
:11:45. > :11:50.young people together? Do these companies exist? Of course they do.
:11:50. > :11:55.How many basements from a top company? One of the largest
:11:55. > :11:58.companies in the whole of the UK, as soon as this announcement was made
:11:58. > :12:03.spoke personally to the First Minister and stated they were
:12:03. > :12:07.willing to participate in that, and I think they are looking at hundreds
:12:07. > :12:17.or thousands of basements with that company. They are the largest
:12:17. > :12:22.employer in Northern Ireland. you might ass well tell us. How much
:12:22. > :12:26.are they going to be paid? We are co-costing that at the moment. We
:12:26. > :12:31.are looking at what we need to add to that, to incentivise young people
:12:31. > :12:36.to take part in these placements, and I recognise what you say...
:12:36. > :12:39.does that help a shared future? you look at the trouble we had
:12:39. > :12:42.before Christmas for example, a lot of the young people on the streets
:12:42. > :12:49.involved in that trouble are young people who don't feel they have a
:12:49. > :12:56.hope, who feel they don't have a stake in the community. They had
:12:56. > :13:00.flags. I will tell you what, it was nothing to do with the young people,
:13:00. > :13:09.it was to do with the fact that every single person round the table
:13:09. > :13:14.were disagreeing and you diaagreed. That is what happened.
:13:14. > :13:23.Hold on. With respect. Don't blame it on young people being unemployed.
:13:23. > :13:27.I wasn't doing that. With respect, that so not my assessment. That is
:13:27. > :13:32.the assessment of the community leaders we spoke to in the local
:13:32. > :13:35.inner city community, they say part of the problem is social
:13:35. > :13:44.deprivation, high unemployment. Young people who don't feel they
:13:44. > :13:48.have a stake in their community. As for the flag, so... It is iron Ron
:13:48. > :13:54.nick, Geoffrey knows more about the edetail of the Shared Future plans
:13:54. > :13:59.than we do and as Danny Kennedy does? Take the time to go and find
:13:59. > :14:09.out. We took the time.I don't wait for people to tell me. I get in
:14:09. > :14:10.
:14:10. > :14:13.answer. He called people Jeremiahs. I don't wait for somebody to come
:14:13. > :14:17.with the information, the people that I represent expect me to go and
:14:17. > :14:21.get the information for them, to impart it to them, to help them, to
:14:21. > :14:27.give them a leg up, and that is what our young people are looking for.
:14:27. > :14:32.And Tay are fed up with then kind of thing. Here is a young person here.
:14:32. > :14:36.Speaking about the 10,000 place, who is going to get these? As of you
:14:36. > :14:39.probably know there is more young people than there is going to be
:14:39. > :14:44.placement, how will you pick them? Will you pick those who have less
:14:44. > :14:48.skill, have less of a support background? Because of that, or are
:14:48. > :14:56.you going and then completely ignore those who have qualifications, that
:14:56. > :15:00.need the support the get a job? Valid question. Does anybody know?
:15:00. > :15:03.In the previous executive I served as employment and learning ministers
:15:03. > :15:08.looking at and bringing forward schemes for young people,
:15:08. > :15:14.particularly those who are Neets and need assistance, so there are
:15:14. > :15:22.programme, that I was bringing forward, which have been continued
:15:22. > :15:26.to be started by my party colleague and so, some of the announcements
:15:26. > :15:31.made last week I think add to that, I welcome that, and I want to see
:15:31. > :15:34.those programmes continue. This is important that we address some of
:15:34. > :15:39.the answers also tonight, because maybe Geoffrey, when people get more
:15:39. > :15:44.answers they will buy into this more, so, Shannon, what is your pack
:15:44. > :15:49.ground? Have you spoken to people in the opposite community, if you like,
:15:49. > :15:53.much? Yes, I am from a Protestant background, I will just say that,
:15:53. > :15:59.and I have Catholic friend through a mutual love of music. There are ways
:15:59. > :16:03.we can communicate, I am a part of a company that gives young people an
:16:03. > :16:07.interest in politics. Does that push Shannon down the queue of getting a
:16:07. > :16:11.placement, because she has spoken to people? And met people in the other
:16:11. > :16:17.community? Or will I be ignored because I have spoken to them,
:16:17. > :16:22.because I have GCSEs and I can't get a job. Is she further down the
:16:22. > :16:26.queue? That is the kind of thing we want to encourage. The purpose is
:16:26. > :16:30.two fold. One, it is to give young people genuine experience, and when
:16:30. > :16:35.I talk to young people who have been through their education, or maybe
:16:35. > :16:38.haven't had the education they hoped for, one of the things they tell me
:16:38. > :16:41.is it it difficult to get a job when you don't have experience. That is
:16:41. > :16:47.the first thing. The second thing is we want to encourage people to work
:16:47. > :16:51.together. This is beyond, this is beyond getting a job. The purpose
:16:52. > :16:59.was this is going to help us with our shared future. This will help
:16:59. > :17:03.these people. Start to learn about another community. By working, by
:17:03. > :17:09.doing what what in work. They will be working in work. What are the
:17:09. > :17:13.placements going to be? If I can go back to what I said. It is
:17:13. > :17:16.important. The young people who I talk to in the areas where there is
:17:16. > :17:20.high social deprivation, they tell me that what they want is a job,
:17:20. > :17:25.what they want is employment, what they want are opportunities, and I
:17:25. > :17:29.think that part of the difficulty we have, in terms of the segregation of
:17:29. > :17:32.our community, the divisions that exist, is that people don't feel the
:17:32. > :17:36.peace process has been delivering for them in terms of employment
:17:36. > :17:41.prospect, in terms of giving them hope, so in order to build a bridge,
:17:41. > :17:46.the first thing you must do is build strong supports, on either sides. On
:17:46. > :17:56.unless we have got that, the bricks you build across the middle is going
:17:56. > :17:56.
:17:56. > :18:00.to be... You see the spirit there, and the passion, Eamonn, that
:18:00. > :18:04.Geoffrey was clearly talking about. Do you think it will work, do you
:18:04. > :18:10.think that will inspire Catholics and Protestants to work together?
:18:10. > :18:16.Well, if it does I will be happy, I will be positive about that, and it
:18:16. > :18:21.I can see Geoffrey's passion and hear it. But I mean do I think it's
:18:21. > :18:25.a contradiction running through, all this, I have no doubt there are
:18:25. > :18:28.members of the DUP and Sinn Fein who want to share plans for future and
:18:28. > :18:31.make things better and if they work out I will be the first to applaud
:18:32. > :18:38.them. The fact of the matter, in relation to the Shared Future, these
:18:38. > :18:43.are two parties that are opposed to one another in their aims, so they
:18:43. > :18:48.are forever building and burning bridges, simultaneously, last week,
:18:48. > :18:51.I think it was Friday, we had a headline in the Irish times which
:18:51. > :18:56.said, Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness presenting vision for the
:18:56. > :19:03.future and the same day, the news letter we had a headline about the
:19:03. > :19:06.DUP, organise organising to hang the flags at five new location,
:19:06. > :19:11.meanwhile, Gerry Adams is ram panelling round, talking about the
:19:11. > :19:15.need immediately for a border poll so we can mobilise two communities
:19:15. > :19:19.separately in terms of orange and green. These contradictions are
:19:19. > :19:24.there, and I think there are hints in what I have heard from your
:19:24. > :19:27.studio about how to overcome all that. It is particularly struck by
:19:27. > :19:31.the woman who said that the community is coming together, and
:19:31. > :19:35.would come together, in defence of the residential homes which are
:19:35. > :19:39.being closed under the health cut back, I mean, I know people in these
:19:40. > :19:45.homes, I know the family, some are talking about militant action. They
:19:45. > :19:51.would like to see... To be fair to the Health Minister, he has said...
:19:51. > :19:54.I am not blaming. I am not blaming the Health Minister. He has taken
:19:54. > :19:58.the brief away from the trust. Sorry, that is nibbling at the edges
:19:58. > :20:05.of it. I am aware he has done that. What we still have is the prospect
:20:05. > :20:09.of the closure under whatever auspices. What people in the studio
:20:09. > :20:13.want, what MLAs could do to bring people together, if they would say
:20:13. > :20:18.don't move out, keep your loved ones there, we appeal to the workers in
:20:18. > :20:23.those places through the unions not to leave the job, the entire
:20:23. > :20:27.community would rally to that. not what we are talking about
:20:27. > :20:30.tonight. It is. This is my point. This is what you are talking about.
:20:30. > :20:36.This is the only way, would you listen to me, this is what I am
:20:36. > :20:40.saying. I am frustrated. This is how we will get a shared future. When we
:20:40. > :20:44.come together, not because somebody has preached to us, to be nicer to
:20:44. > :20:50.one another, but when we have to fight together for something.
:20:50. > :20:54.Incidentally, when Geoffrey... APPLAUSE.
:20:54. > :20:58.Geoffrey is talking about young people, he gives the amazing news
:20:58. > :21:01.that young people say they want job, of course they do, they say that to
:21:01. > :21:06.everybody because it is what they want. But listen to this, if you
:21:06. > :21:11.believe that, stop the job cuts in the public service, stop destroying
:21:11. > :21:16.jobs. Do that people will rally to you. There is too much nonsense
:21:16. > :21:20.being talked here. Stephen, let Geoffrey reply and you can come in.
:21:20. > :21:24.What does he have to say about the money wasted as a result of the
:21:24. > :21:30.vision that could be going into the Health Service? I am in favour, yes.
:21:30. > :21:40.United the schools and take on the Catholic Church. Take it on. Take it
:21:40. > :21:40.
:21:40. > :21:45.on. 80% when you poll on this TV show say that people want their
:21:45. > :21:49.children educated together. The First Minister said it is wrong we
:21:49. > :21:56.segregate children on the basis of division at the earliest age and yet
:21:56. > :22:00.the proposals amount to ten shared education campuses and no mention of
:22:00. > :22:05.integrated education. Where is Noreen Campbell tonight? I would
:22:05. > :22:09.like to support what has been said, because there is a gap, an absence
:22:09. > :22:12.at the heart of this statement, which I think has left people
:22:12. > :22:16.feeling disappointed. If we want our young people to be able to live and
:22:16. > :22:21.work together in the future, why aren't they able to learn and play
:22:21. > :22:25.together in school, side by side, as happens in our integrated schools?
:22:25. > :22:32.Why is there no mention of integrated education at all in this,
:22:32. > :22:36.when the simple state... ? shared campuses? That is what is
:22:36. > :22:41.proposed They are not integrated. They are shared, it is a start
:22:41. > :22:46.are separate schools, single identity school, coming together, on
:22:46. > :22:51.one campus. Church based. Why have that if your vision is for a shared
:22:51. > :22:55.future, of people living and working together, why would those children
:22:55. > :22:58.not be sitting beside each other in the classroom, learning from each
:22:58. > :23:07.other, with each other and about each other?
:23:07. > :23:11.APPLAUSE. Well there are already some projects
:23:11. > :23:16.in terms of shared education in Derry, where children are learning
:23:16. > :23:20.together, for, where there is a poor science provision in one of the
:23:20. > :23:25.school, they are separate school, a lot will be incremental, there is
:23:25. > :23:29.parental choice and parents are choosing to send their children to
:23:29. > :23:33.faith schools. There is a difference between shared
:23:34. > :23:39.education and integrated education. Summer schools and camp, however
:23:39. > :23:45.worthy won't cut it. Neither is to an extent, shared sites.
:23:45. > :23:49.Fundamentally. We need to look again at integrated education and
:23:49. > :23:53.southernly my party colleague has don a lot of work on that. What sort
:23:53. > :23:59.of work? We are not opposed to integrated education. You support
:23:59. > :24:02.the shared. That is enough for you. Is that not too little? Kids, they
:24:02. > :24:06.can't be educated together, they can be in a shared space but keep them
:24:06. > :24:11.apart? I don't think it is suggesting keeping them apart in
:24:12. > :24:18.terms of shared education. Tay are separate building. Not at all, that
:24:19. > :24:23.is a misinterpretation of it. And... They have different teachers.
:24:23. > :24:28.they will be coming together. understand the point being made. You
:24:28. > :24:32.cannot force people together. I am sorry, if you build a consensus in
:24:32. > :24:36.Northern Ireland. The wrong way to build it is the alliance where where
:24:36. > :24:40.you force your views on everybody else. You haul down the union flag
:24:40. > :24:47.and believe that will... APPLAUSE.
:24:47. > :24:54.Chris. Hold on. Chris has to reply. The last statement is false. Where
:24:54. > :24:59.was the consensus They put for war ward a compromise provision. In
:24:59. > :25:06.relation to integrated education, if there is so much support for it, a
:25:06. > :25:11.modest proposal to set a target of 20% of children in integrated
:25:11. > :25:15.education by 2020 and no-one saw fit to support that. That is a disgrey.
:25:15. > :25:18.We need to understand what shared education is about. The way you were
:25:18. > :25:22.painting it is fundamentally different from the reality. You
:25:22. > :25:28.have, you have, if you can't take the big step at once, it is clear in
:25:28. > :25:32.Northern Ireland we can't do that, and never mind being, I take
:25:33. > :25:37.Eamonn's point about saving jobs and all of that, but the reality is the
:25:37. > :25:41.Treasury say we are taking �4 billion out of your budget. �4
:25:41. > :25:46.billion less, we have to look at how we can save money and at the aim
:25:46. > :25:51.seem deliver good services -- same time. I think we can do it better by
:25:51. > :25:57.having shared facility, if you have two schools in one town and they
:25:57. > :26:01.need to be replaced you build them on one campus, they share
:26:01. > :26:05.classrooms, in some cases it includes sharing teachers but it
:26:05. > :26:10.respects parental choice. Until we can get people to embrace the
:26:10. > :26:14.concept of integrated education and some do, then we have to take one
:26:14. > :26:24.step in the right direction. Look at the young hands up here. There is a
:26:24. > :26:28.
:26:28. > :26:35.guy in the white shirt. Hello. from educational programmes in other
:26:35. > :26:39.countries, like Germany. They gain practical experience through
:26:39. > :26:47.apprenticeships, and they have managed to keep their youth
:26:47. > :26:50.unemployment down. Do these guys around this table, do the political
:26:50. > :26:58.parties in Northern Ireland ins by you that they can fix our problem?
:26:58. > :27:02.Not really. We need to look at countries like that. Go ahead. Reid
:27:02. > :27:09.I would like to say I think Martin McGuinness is a hypocrite when he's
:27:09. > :27:15.trying to promote the Shared Future. Because it is his party who has year
:27:15. > :27:22.in, year out, been chipping away at my culture. And making me present
:27:22. > :27:28.his party and what... He is not here to defend himself
:27:29. > :27:32.because no one from his party is available, but he would say he is
:27:32. > :27:39.trying to reach out to your community. But that is what his
:27:39. > :27:45.proposal is about. He has done absolutely nothing for the loyalist
:27:45. > :27:50.culture and year in, year out, they have been chipping away, Sinn Fein
:27:50. > :27:56.and Martin McGuinness have been chipping away at our culture.
:27:56. > :28:06.you. Obviously, he would deny that. As part of the Shared Future
:28:06. > :28:11.strategy, Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness have talked about
:28:11. > :28:14.removing peace walls by 2023. Residents Tina Patrick and Patsy
:28:14. > :28:24.Canavan told us what it was like living in the shadow of the peace
:28:24. > :28:38.
:28:38. > :28:48.Bolts and stones still come over. Sectarian slogans still shouted
:28:48. > :28:50.
:28:50. > :29:00.across the wall. Unfortunately, it is home. I was born on this street
:29:00. > :29:03.
:29:03. > :29:09.in 1969. We have been here since 1970, so this is my home. When you
:29:10. > :29:17.think of the wall, you think of suspicion, you think of fear, you
:29:17. > :29:23.think of community tension, and that is on both sides of the war. I have
:29:23. > :29:28.never seen anyone across the peace line. The could meet your Protestant
:29:28. > :29:38.friends and realise they are your neighbours. The people who live
:29:38. > :29:39.
:29:39. > :29:46.adjacent to the wall I would say it creates that sense of safety.
:29:46. > :29:55.we were children we used to go to the park and the plots. That was
:29:55. > :30:02.over 40 years ago. It has turned into the peace line now. At the
:30:02. > :30:06.bottom of the Avenue there is a pedestrian gate. It opens at 7am in
:30:06. > :30:11.the morning until nine o'clock at night. If there is any trouble, and
:30:11. > :30:15.there has been in the past, when that gate has had to close in an
:30:15. > :30:23.emergency situation, if someone is locked outside that gate, they have
:30:23. > :30:33.to do the deed tour of about a mile to get into their own home. --
:30:33. > :30:33.
:30:33. > :30:41.detoured. I personally would like to see the walls down. I think once the
:30:41. > :30:45.peace line comes down it would all dramatically change. I know for a
:30:45. > :30:52.fact that if it came down there would be trouble. Both sides.
:30:52. > :30:59.beyond the wall is difficult because young people fear going through the
:30:59. > :31:04.gate. When you can't see what is beyond that gate, obviously, there
:31:04. > :31:14.is a fear. We have to try to break down those barriers within people's
:31:14. > :31:14.
:31:14. > :31:20.minds. Before we break down walls. While, in an opinion poll for the
:31:20. > :31:25.Nolan Show, twice as many Protestants as Catholics said the
:31:25. > :31:28.barriers should never come down. Take a look at this. 21% of
:31:28. > :31:33.Protestants said the walls should never come down compared to 10% of
:31:33. > :31:38.Catholics. To be fair, there was overall support for the timescale
:31:38. > :31:46.that was set by the First and Deputy First Minister. 68% want the peace
:31:46. > :31:49.walls removed within ten years. 22% said take them down now. But,
:31:49. > :31:53.Jeffrey Donaldson, I know you are seeing that poll for the first time,
:31:54. > :31:58.that there is certainly something to read into that in terms of Catholics
:31:58. > :32:03.have been given and have much more confidence about peace walls coming
:32:03. > :32:08.down that the Protestant community, and who is the biggest party
:32:08. > :32:14.representing the Protestant community? You lot. Protestants
:32:14. > :32:19.living in those areas that have the peace walls feel that their rights
:32:19. > :32:26.have been removed from them, and this is why... In Belfast City
:32:26. > :32:30.Council, we tried to represent those views. Sadly, they were overridden
:32:30. > :32:33.by the Nationalists and the Alliance Party. It comes down to if we truly
:32:33. > :32:41.want to build the kind of society that Chris and his party talk about,
:32:41. > :32:46.where there is a Shared Future, and that is what I want, a society where
:32:46. > :32:51.people can live side-by-side and our young people have jobs, that is what
:32:51. > :32:58.we all want. You have to address the big issues like flags and parades.
:32:58. > :33:01.And deal with the past by bringing in an independent chairman. We will
:33:01. > :33:06.have to sit down and talk to all the parties and that is precisely what
:33:06. > :33:10.we are doing but the point is this, you have to build confidence.
:33:10. > :33:16.talked before. You had a committee before. You have to build the
:33:16. > :33:26.confidence. But you did have a committee before that did no good
:33:26. > :33:30.work and so you had to set up another committee. One side of the
:33:30. > :33:36.community feels that their culture has been destroyed, and that is the
:33:36. > :33:41.difficulty. Both sides of the community do not have the same level
:33:41. > :33:45.of confidence in terms of the peace walls coming down. Why? It tells me
:33:45. > :33:52.there is an indictment of leadership. A perfect example from
:33:52. > :34:02.Jeffrey Donaldson, this is the largest party. We took of a loyalist
:34:02. > :34:04.
:34:04. > :34:13.party being destroyed in Protestant communities. That is absurd. Is he
:34:13. > :34:22.talking about when people have parades coming through the useful in
:34:22. > :34:28.Belfast, including a man who killed a Catholic man within 50 yards of
:34:28. > :34:31.the wall? How does that advanced loyalist Ultra at all? What we need
:34:31. > :34:39.to see from Jeffrey Donaldson, instead of once again indulging this
:34:39. > :34:47.nonsense, is leadership. It would be good if your party was here tonight
:34:47. > :34:51.to give some leadership as well. With the greatest of respect, at
:34:51. > :34:54.least I am here putting forward my point of view. Your party is nowhere
:34:54. > :35:00.to be seen. When I talk about culture and identity, I mean British
:35:00. > :35:04.identity, British way of life, and it is one that is being undermined,
:35:04. > :35:09.the kind of society we want is one built on respect and tolerance, but
:35:09. > :35:12.it has to work both ways. And does that mean the Finance
:35:13. > :35:19.Minister Simon Wilson putting up as many union flags as he can wherever
:35:19. > :35:25.he can? Is that mature politics at this time? The flags flown on the
:35:25. > :35:35.buildings where it is appropriate. What is wrong with flying a flag of
:35:35. > :35:36.
:35:36. > :35:42.this country? Sorry, Stephen. It is still the Stephen Nolan show. It is
:35:42. > :35:48.not the Jeffrey Donaldson show yet. With the issue of separation that
:35:48. > :35:53.exists, and it is very sobering to hear those experiences, but it is
:35:53. > :35:57.painstakingly slow to make progress. I, in conjunction as a minister with
:35:57. > :36:00.David Ford, the Justice Minister, we have made progress in areas of
:36:00. > :36:04.Belfast but it is difficult and slow and you have to bring the people
:36:04. > :36:14.with you and that is key to beat. And Key to that is to make sure that
:36:14. > :36:15.
:36:15. > :36:18.you do not make them feel more vulnerable. It is OK for all the
:36:18. > :36:23.politicians to say about a Shared Future and breaking the walls down.
:36:23. > :36:26.Nobody is talking about an after-care package for the residents
:36:26. > :36:31.who live on the interfaces. The police have come down and said their
:36:31. > :36:38.resources are getting cut so they cannot promise a lot. So where is
:36:38. > :36:43.the after-care package? I live on one of the most notorious interfaces
:36:43. > :36:46.in the country. So when you hear the first in Deputy First Minister and
:36:46. > :36:49.they have said there will be in conduction with the community, but
:36:49. > :36:55.when you get the prospect of the peace walls coming down, doesn't
:36:55. > :37:00.inspire you? Remap it is the unknown. The politicians do not come
:37:00. > :37:05.near us as residents around the interfaces. It is OK to sit in your
:37:05. > :37:08.big houses but it is the people on the streets, the only way you're
:37:08. > :37:14.going to get a shared future is by having residents speaking to
:37:14. > :37:19.residents. All of these parties to come in here
:37:19. > :37:25.and speak. Ladies and gentlemen, give them a brand of applause. Here
:37:25. > :37:29.is what is still to come on the programme tonight. A self publicist
:37:29. > :37:33.or saviour of the Catholic Church? Father Brian D'Arcy will be in the
:37:33. > :37:43.studio shortly. That's get a quick reminder of how you can get in touch
:37:43. > :38:05.
:38:05. > :38:08.with us. -- lets get a quick get in touch. Tonight, on BBC
:38:08. > :38:13.Northern Ireland -- one of BBC Northern Ireland 's broadcasting
:38:14. > :38:20.legends. Is not me. Jackie Fullerton is celebrating his 70th birthday and
:38:20. > :38:25.40 years in broadcasting. Here he is in action.
:38:25. > :38:35.Jackie is with the man producing the magic at the moment. Are we on the
:38:35. > :38:48.
:38:48. > :38:58.# Don't stop me now. Oh, for goodness sake.
:38:58. > :39:01.
:39:01. > :39:06.# I'm a racing car passing by... Thank you very much.
:39:06. > :39:12.# That is why they call me Mr Fahrenheit... I am not quite sure
:39:12. > :39:17.what is happening there. Frank Lampard, thank you very much indeed.
:39:17. > :39:27.John Terry. John? It is a football. The flag stays
:39:27. > :39:31.
:39:31. > :39:37.down. What a moment for Northern Ireland! -- it is a good ball.
:39:37. > :39:40.And some of the fans are offering me their handkerchiefs. Being the
:39:40. > :39:50.Ballymena boy. They think I am in tears.
:39:50. > :40:10.
:40:10. > :40:14.Maybe I am. long career, there has been a Dean
:40:14. > :40:21.held in his honour in an demeanour. The tickets were too costly for me
:40:21. > :40:27.so I could not go. -- in Ballymena. It has not stopped me gatecrashing,
:40:27. > :40:32.with the help of a special friend. What is happening Eamonn? He is just
:40:32. > :40:37.getting to the punchline. Let him finish this story here. What you
:40:37. > :40:45.don't know, Jackie, is we are now going out live on BBC One on the
:40:45. > :40:55.Nolan Show, everybody. APPLAUSE
:40:55. > :41:00.Yes, all this attention. The biggest show in the country.
:41:00. > :41:05.That is the one. Stephen, you have a message across that. You have a bit
:41:05. > :41:11.of tape and we are going to let Jackie here, amongst the tributes,
:41:11. > :41:18.people paying tributes, but Jerry Armstrong, another one sitting here
:41:18. > :41:23.at the moment and he and Jackie reminiscent of the moment but here
:41:23. > :41:30.is a special birthday message for you from Sir Alex Ferguson. Jackie
:41:30. > :41:35.Fullerton, 70 years of age. My card! Where have the years gone? I
:41:35. > :41:39.always enjoy your interviews. They were good questions. He always got
:41:39. > :41:47.to the point and things but I always enjoy the interviews. Anyone who
:41:47. > :41:54.gets to 70, a year beyond me, is doing well.
:41:54. > :41:58.APPLAUSE. Sir Alex Ferguson Very good. You
:41:58. > :42:04.see, people will wonder what he is talking about. He said anybody who
:42:04. > :42:08.gets to 70 will be doing well. have trouble understanding him. You
:42:08. > :42:12.are trouble understanding him, but I don't, because I am from Ballymena,
:42:13. > :42:16.the girl is saying give me the microphone, they can't hear me.
:42:16. > :42:20.Thank you, the opportunities to appear on the biggest show in the
:42:20. > :42:25.country is quite something, and all your viewers and all the people in
:42:25. > :42:32.the studio, they should be down here, in Ballymena. They really
:42:32. > :42:37.should. APPLAUSE.
:42:37. > :42:42.We have here in the hotel, how many people are here tonight? Almost 4
:42:42. > :42:48.hundred on a Wednesday night. I don't do humility as Stephen know,
:42:49. > :42:53.but I am humbled by the attendance, in austere times. When you think of
:42:53. > :42:58.40 years, in the business, where has the time gone? How quickly has it
:42:58. > :43:03.gone? I think it goes quickly, Eamonn, because you are looking
:43:03. > :43:08.forward from one event to the next, I have a Cup Final to do or a rugby
:43:08. > :43:14.game to do in two weeks time. All of a Sunday your life is going like
:43:14. > :43:18.that there, and the thing is, you enjoy it, but when you get to relax
:43:18. > :43:23.and you are totally relaxed about it and you have got rid of the nerve,
:43:23. > :43:31.you find you are nearly 7 ah 0 and you are knackered!
:43:31. > :43:36.-- 70. I have had a great, what is it they say, a great journey, I have
:43:36. > :43:41.met so many people, like Graham Souness is here, Martin O'Neill, Pat
:43:41. > :43:45.Jennings, Gerry Armstrong, all these people, we have boxing champions,
:43:45. > :43:50.there are so many people, and, it is lovely those people have taken the
:43:50. > :43:56.time, and I would say, people here tonight, are my friends. And that is
:43:56. > :44:03.the best thing I have got through my career. What I can tell you Jackie,
:44:03. > :44:06.also, it is very very clear, Jackie, if you can hear me tonight, it is
:44:06. > :44:10.very very clear, that the audience here in this studio, they are your
:44:10. > :44:13.friend, the reason you have been round a long time, is the audience
:44:13. > :44:20.in Northern Ireland are your friends, and I don't think it would
:44:20. > :44:25.be the same this show tonight if we didn't get a few kind of bum flat
:44:25. > :44:29.notes from the man, who can sing as well as Jackie Fullerton. Look at
:44:29. > :44:34.those eyebrows going now. Look at that. When we suggest this man could
:44:34. > :44:40.maybe sing on the biggest show in the country.
:44:40. > :44:45.Do you want me to sing now? It is up to you Jackie, does anything come to
:44:45. > :44:50.mind? This is a song, honestly, a great memory for me is I went to
:44:50. > :44:53.visit a little Mansell brating his one hundredth birthday in a
:44:53. > :44:57.residential home. When I got there, they are sitting round, they have
:44:58. > :45:02.cake, a little man of one hundred, and they, a few of the old dear,
:45:03. > :45:07.they said Jackie, sing, sing. And the lit little guy with the
:45:07. > :45:13.keyboard. My producer, he is here tonight, he said sing for them. So I
:45:13. > :45:18.said OK, so I thought I will sing My Way. I am into it. This is what
:45:18. > :45:28.Eamonn says about: If you don't hurry up and sing you will be on in
:45:28. > :45:28.
:45:28. > :45:36.the morning. I am getting there! The guy says, OK. I went "And now... #
:45:36. > :45:41.And I remember the next line is "The end is near "and the next was "And
:45:41. > :45:44.so I face the final curtain." I had to change the words quickly. Give
:45:44. > :45:50.Jackie Fullerton a round of applause. Thank you.
:45:50. > :45:56.APPLAUSE P Thank you my friend.
:45:56. > :46:02.I hope he has a fantastic night up there and thanks to Eamonn for doing
:46:02. > :46:06.that. My next guest is one of the faces of the Catholic church in
:46:06. > :46:10.Northern Ireland but his questioning on clerical celibacy and
:46:10. > :46:14.homosexuality has led to him being reprimanded by the Vatican. Ladies
:46:14. > :46:22.and gentlemen, please welcome Father Brian D'Arcy.
:46:22. > :46:28.APPLAUSE. Good to see you. You see, you and I
:46:28. > :46:33.have, we walked past each other a lot in the office and we exchange
:46:33. > :46:39.pleasantries and I say hello, but I don't actually know that much about
:46:39. > :46:44.you. Except what I have read and it intrigued me, why does such a genial
:46:44. > :46:49.character like you, want to get into not afraid to get into so much
:46:49. > :46:53.trouble? You take them on. Well, I am a genial character, in a quiet
:46:53. > :46:57.sort of way. I don't like rows, the last thing I want do is row. I would
:46:57. > :47:07.rather sit and listen to Jackie, he is a lovely friend and has great
:47:07. > :47:10.stories. We cut him off before the singing really started? Wise!
:47:10. > :47:14.Sometimes though, but the point of it is, if somebody take yours
:47:14. > :47:18.character or somebody says something to you, I was brought up to believe
:47:18. > :47:22.you should say your peace piece and say it gently, not in a fighting
:47:22. > :47:27.way, that is all I do. I have been a journalist for so long. Not in a
:47:28. > :47:32.fighting way? I don't fight.Not Catholic church, homosexuality.
:47:32. > :47:36.Celibacy, do you want me to go on. You are taking them on. Some are
:47:36. > :47:40.proud you are taking them on I think I have so. It is not so much taking
:47:40. > :47:46.them on, I am putting the point of view of the people I have dealt with
:47:46. > :47:50.for 44 yearses a a priest. I, all I am saying guy, there you have your
:47:50. > :47:55.views and things and I respect your views, and I have never questioned
:47:55. > :48:02.what you said, a core teaching of the Catholic church, a dogma, I have
:48:02. > :48:05.a question, thes way people, the way we deal with people, like
:48:05. > :48:09.homosexuals, like priests who should be married in my view, like women
:48:09. > :48:14.who are so badly treated by so many church, including the Catholic
:48:14. > :48:17.church, that is my job. That is my job to speak about that. Why would
:48:17. > :48:21.you want to be part of that? It is not getting it wrong, they are not
:48:21. > :48:26.listening to people doing it. The people have, you hear, you had it
:48:26. > :48:30.tonight here, the people are the voices, there is a man said, we
:48:30. > :48:35.don't listen to politician, we want to talk ourselves, and that is the
:48:35. > :48:38.real power of the place. The people haven't worked have it worked out
:48:39. > :48:41.for themselves, they don't need people from the top telling them
:48:41. > :48:46.what to do. The people are struggling to be as good as they
:48:46. > :48:50.can. Some of this conviction that you have, it is not just about what
:48:50. > :48:55.you have heard from people, it is about how it has affected your life
:48:55. > :49:00.personally, because you talked about falling in love. Yes.And then how
:49:00. > :49:06.the Catholic church was in conflict. In conflict with what you might have
:49:06. > :49:10.wanted to do. Having fallen in love. It is a human being, it is a great
:49:10. > :49:13.gift to fall in love. That is the first thing. It's a great gift to
:49:13. > :49:19.fall in love. It makes us strong. I have said as far as I am concerned I
:49:19. > :49:21.would have been a better priest had I been allowed to marry I didn't
:49:21. > :49:27.marry, because I had made a commitment to the Catholic church.
:49:27. > :49:31.How deeply in love were you? Deeply enough in love I could have married.
:49:31. > :49:35.But, but it is not a thing you make up your own mind about. That came
:49:35. > :49:40.out in the documentary in the BBC. It is something you have to talk to
:49:40. > :49:44.the person that you were with, and you have to talk about that. I have
:49:44. > :49:49.decided no, I want to be a priest, and I cannot be a priest and be
:49:49. > :49:56.married, so I had to make up my mind I couldn't be. But I am convinced,
:49:56. > :50:01.Stephen, sorry for interrupt, I am convinced that it is not realistic,
:50:01. > :50:05.to put a law that says a man can't marry if he wants to be a priest. If
:50:05. > :50:14.somebody wants to be a priest and celibate, fantastic, that is great.
:50:14. > :50:19.But if somebody wants to marry, and be a Catholic priest, that is also
:50:20. > :50:24.fantastic. The Catholic church stopped you... No I stopped myself.
:50:25. > :50:31.I stopped myself. Catholic church rule rules meant that you,
:50:31. > :50:35.throughout your life, are not able to love another person. Yes. Not
:50:35. > :50:39.even to commit myself in love to another person. I do love people.
:50:39. > :50:44.But that one special person for your. I cannot fall in love.We
:50:44. > :50:48.talked about this on the Radio 1 day, and it was compelling at the
:50:48. > :50:54.time. That can be a very lonely place. It's a very lonely life,
:50:55. > :50:58.and... How long -- lonely for you? Extraordinarily lonely. The thing
:50:58. > :51:04.that made my life worst of all and it compounded this issue of falling
:51:04. > :51:09.in love, was the fact I was abused as a child, and when you are abused
:51:09. > :51:14.as a child and teenager again, by people who are in religion, that
:51:14. > :51:17.leaves you with no confidence to do anything. When somebody falls in
:51:17. > :51:21.love with you and you fall in love, that builds your canned. You would
:51:21. > :51:26.like to be able to do it. You have hang ups about things for the rest
:51:26. > :51:30.of your life when you have been abused. Like what?Your about to do
:51:30. > :51:34.things, about sexuality, your about to express sexuality. Abusing the
:51:34. > :51:40.child is one of temperature cruellest desperate awful things you
:51:40. > :51:44.can do. It destroyed the confidence, it destroys ability. For example,
:51:44. > :51:47.when the Vatican made the censure on me, the biggest thing it did to me
:51:47. > :51:53.it ruined my confidence all over again. I became abused all over
:51:53. > :52:00.again. And for a year, or 18 month, I was going round with a hump on my
:52:00. > :52:07.back, and awful. I was devastated by it. They didn't need to do it to me.
:52:07. > :52:12.I am not say saying somebody said how can we pinpoint Darcy. It
:52:12. > :52:18.doesn't matter a fig to anybody in the Vatican. What does that say?
:52:18. > :52:22.They haven't really heard of me. What does that say about them? You
:52:22. > :52:27.are describing tonight you felt abused all over again. The reason I
:52:27. > :52:32.am saying that, steefb, is, to point out the awfulness of abuse, you
:52:32. > :52:36.never get over it. -- Stephen. You try to overcome and you manage it,
:52:36. > :52:40.but when something hits you at the core of your being, it just
:52:40. > :52:45.destroyed you all over again. you not tempted to walk away from it
:52:45. > :52:50.all? I have been tempted to walk away many time, but a vocation is
:52:50. > :52:54.not... How close did you get?I was very close on at least three
:52:54. > :52:59.different occasion, one of which was last year. You know, there was more
:52:59. > :53:03.than me who got the rap from the Vatican and the yellow card.
:53:03. > :53:08.close? The point about it was, at that stage you say to yourself,
:53:08. > :53:12.well, I have given almost 50 years of my life to the organisation, and
:53:12. > :53:16.it was a great gift from God I was able do that, but they don't seem to
:53:16. > :53:21.want me any more, that is what I was feeling at that stage, so I did
:53:21. > :53:24.think about it and I spoke about it, that I do need to leave, because
:53:24. > :53:32.nobody wants me in the place. But everybody, the people round the
:53:32. > :53:38.place, when I, the documentary that Natalie did on me. On BBC One
:53:38. > :53:44.Terrific documentary that was done and it was wonderful, but I had to
:53:44. > :53:47.answer 4,500 letters, as a result of that. 99. 9% of them please don't
:53:47. > :53:52.leave because you are the only voice we have left.
:53:52. > :53:55.In the church. That is why, it is not, when you have a vocation, it is
:53:55. > :54:03.not just satisfying yourself. It is you have to do something with your
:54:03. > :54:06.people and for your people. Do you, Father Brian D'Arcy think the
:54:07. > :54:12.Catholic church can sunshine -- survive long-term without allowing
:54:12. > :54:19.priests to marry? It is difficult to say that in history. It probably
:54:19. > :54:22.will survive in some shape fashion or form, but any church, Catholic
:54:22. > :54:28.church, other church, any churches you like to take any Christian
:54:28. > :54:33.church you like to take. It is not surviving, what the church's job is
:54:33. > :54:37.to make the compassion, the love, the hope, the joy, the Mersey ofs
:54:37. > :54:41.Christ living in people's lives. Specially poor people, marginalised
:54:41. > :54:48.people. That is not about a structure or an institution, it is
:54:48. > :54:54.about how it relates to its people. A mass or service in the Sunday,
:54:54. > :55:00.helping people, or is it destroying people? It will not, live in
:55:00. > :55:05.society, and cannot live in society, Stephen, until it comes to the
:55:05. > :55:09.saying why we are here. Is it to sever our people or institution.
:55:09. > :55:13.Christ said sever your people. Love the Lord your God with all your
:55:13. > :55:16.heart. That is what I am supposed to do and that is what the church is
:55:16. > :55:20.supposed to do. APPLAUSE.
:55:21. > :55:26.And do you think that for example Pope Francis, do you think he will
:55:26. > :55:30.move the church forward? I do.You are a big fan? That is why I am
:55:30. > :55:39.happy. People are saying you are happier 19 you used to be. One of
:55:40. > :55:44.the reasons is I have a new knee and I am not in as much pain as I used
:55:44. > :55:49.to be. Pope Fran circumstances you can't expect him to change the whole
:55:49. > :55:55.thing, but he seems to live in the same world as I do, he seems to be a
:55:55. > :55:58.pastor and not an academic, he seems to say get over the robes and frilly
:55:58. > :56:08.laces and sever the people. He is still an old man. It's a big role
:56:08. > :56:09.
:56:09. > :56:13.for an elderly man. No yes about that. I agree with you, but John
:56:13. > :56:17.XXIII changed the world in Fife years. If Francis changes the
:56:17. > :56:22.structure of the institutions, that will change the church. Is that an
:56:22. > :56:29.opportunity for you no come off the naughty step. Do you think you are
:56:29. > :56:34.forgiven? What is the naughty step Do you think you are forgiven?
:56:34. > :56:39.as long as they leave me alone I don't care if they forgive me or
:56:39. > :56:43.not! APPLAUSE.
:56:43. > :56:49.How do you know you are not forgiven? I haven't got the letter.
:56:49. > :56:58.I got the yellow card and it hasn't been resended. If I get another one
:56:58. > :57:03.I am gone. Honestly?Yes. Is it a letter or what? It is a phone call?
:57:03. > :57:07.I didn't get anything, in the way, but my superior in Rome got a letter
:57:07. > :57:17.to say would you ever get on to the superior in Ireland, to get on to
:57:17. > :57:21.Darcy and tell him to shut up. Darcy shut up? Well, well, my
:57:21. > :57:24.brother who died after that, and I spoke to him about this beforehand,
:57:24. > :57:32.and because my family are very important to me, you know, and the
:57:32. > :57:36.people are very important to me, and I shared it with people, and they, I
:57:36. > :57:40.shared with my family. I didn't want to be a disgrace to them. So I told
:57:40. > :57:45.them this has happened, my brother said what does it mean? And I said,
:57:46. > :57:50.they wanted me to shut up and he said do they want you to start
:57:50. > :57:55.telling lie?s he said all you have done is tell the trust. Your mother
:57:55. > :58:02.and father wouldn't like it if you started telling lies, no, now. That
:58:02. > :58:07.is the bottom line and I am going to tell the truth.
:58:07. > :58:13.APPLAUSE. I have been wanting you into this
:58:13. > :58:18.programme for quite a long time now. Where did you tackle me? At an
:58:18. > :58:21.airport. I did.I was coming home and Stephen comes over, he could
:58:21. > :58:27.have walked up to me any friend in the office in the BBC, but he walked