Episode 2

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:00:08. > :00:13.Ladies and gentlemen, we have an announcement to make. Roll up, roll

:00:14. > :00:17.up, so you can get two shows for the price of one. Watch the show tonight

:00:18. > :00:21.and we will bus you down to Nolan Live and you can tell us what you

:00:22. > :00:24.really think about it. All right? And you think I'm joking, we've got

:00:25. > :00:28.the buses outside. Here are the tickets. If you see want to come to

:00:29. > :00:35.the biggest show in the country after the play, the buses are ready

:00:36. > :00:55.and I'll see you down there. Whose coming?

:00:56. > :01:08.Welcome along. We have got a packed show for you tonight. Here's what's

:01:09. > :01:14.coming up: The play they tried to ban. A comedy

:01:15. > :01:18.about the Bible causes uproar. It only goes ahead tonight after a

:01:19. > :01:23.council U-turn. Where Christians right to object?

:01:24. > :01:27.Hands up who thinks 16-year-olds should be given the vote? Could

:01:28. > :01:32.young people change our politics for the better? Or are they just not

:01:33. > :01:40.mature enough to have a say? Do you remember this? The winner of

:01:41. > :01:52.Britain's Got Talent is Paul Potts. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

:01:53. > :01:55.He is here tonightment he's going to sing live. A big show tonight. Thank

:01:56. > :02:01.you so much for change us here on BBC One. Right, let's get into the

:02:02. > :02:08.first debate, shall we? The show did go on in Newtownabbey after all. The

:02:09. > :02:12.Reduced Shakespeare Company has just performed its comedy about the

:02:13. > :02:16.Bible. It almost didn't happen. There was a huge row. Massive media

:02:17. > :02:21.attention and then a U-turn. What was this all about? Well, joining me

:02:22. > :02:29.to discuss this, the Free Presbyterian Minister, the Reverend

:02:30. > :02:35.David McIlveen and the Alliance councillor, Mr Blair. You just left

:02:36. > :02:41.the play. What's your take? I made the remark coming out to the play,

:02:42. > :02:45.that I didn't see anything that was particularly offensive. I didn't see

:02:46. > :02:50.anything that was more offensive than anything I have seen in light

:02:51. > :02:57.comedy shows in television such as Father Ted for the Vicar of Dibley

:02:58. > :03:03.and most people there would agree with that.

:03:04. > :03:08.Let me just show you different clips of this play. We will start off with

:03:09. > :03:13.this, shall we? Let's have a look. Listen up, children of Israel. I've

:03:14. > :03:19.got some good news and I've got some bad news. The good news is I got him

:03:20. > :03:23.down to ten. LAUGHTER

:03:24. > :03:28.The bad news is, adultery is still one of them. That's just a tiny

:03:29. > :03:33.clip. Do you find that offensive? Very much so, indeed, Stephen. You

:03:34. > :03:37.do? Because it is not the word of God. This presentation that's based

:03:38. > :03:41.upon what the theatre company say is the word of God, it is not the

:03:42. > :03:44.scriptures of truth and there is a serious application here because

:03:45. > :03:49.many of us believe that the scriptures are the inspired word of

:03:50. > :03:54.God and to refer to Moses in that sense, that's not what the Bible

:03:55. > :03:58.teaches. The good news of the Bible is that Jesus Christ came into the

:03:59. > :04:02.world to save sinners. David, you are allowed to find it offensive,

:04:03. > :04:05.but are other people not allowed to find it acceptable? That's going to

:04:06. > :04:09.be the fact that we face in society just as we present the gospel to

:04:10. > :04:14.people, some will receive it and some will reject it. But that's not

:04:15. > :04:18.what we should be discouraged about. It is our challenge to persuade

:04:19. > :04:24.people and whenever I listen to that comment, supposedly coming Moses,

:04:25. > :04:29.that adultery is a bad news story. That's one of God's Commandments

:04:30. > :04:32.that is practicable and God honouring and it is for the benefit

:04:33. > :04:36.of mankind. You are not persuading them, you are banning them from

:04:37. > :04:41.having any right themselves to decide whether they are persuaded or

:04:42. > :04:45.not? You the want them banned from watching it? Total censorship? It is

:04:46. > :04:48.not censorship. It is stating to people there are standards and in

:04:49. > :04:51.all aspects of life, there are standards. In the BBC here, there

:04:52. > :04:55.are certain words that you cannot use or you would be banned from the

:04:56. > :04:58.BBC. Go into the sporting world and there are certain activities that

:04:59. > :05:02.bring the sporting world into disrepute. So people do have

:05:03. > :05:08.standards and the Christian has standards as well and rejects what

:05:09. > :05:13.this presentation is doing in regard to trivialising the message of the

:05:14. > :05:18.Bible. The play did finish. We did mention that we would be busing

:05:19. > :05:24.people down. We can see them getting on the bus. There they are in our

:05:25. > :05:30.wonderful bus. He we brought them down. Nolan Cabs has maybe got a

:05:31. > :05:34.future. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome straight from the play some

:05:35. > :05:41.of our Nolan audience. Give them a round of applaus ladies and

:05:42. > :05:48.gentlemen. APPLAUSE

:05:49. > :05:50.So you guys have actually seen it unlike quite a few people who have

:05:51. > :05:53.been discussing this across the country. Let me come to the front

:05:54. > :05:58.row, and the man in the glasses. What did you think? It was a superb

:05:59. > :06:03.play. It was great fun. Very entertaining. There is nothing in it

:06:04. > :06:08.that I would find offensive. I respect that some Christians would

:06:09. > :06:13.find aspects of it offensive, but for me there was nothing that was

:06:14. > :06:21.offensive. It was entertaining. It was clear when the play was using

:06:22. > :06:26.exerts from the Bible, it was very clear. Explain to this gentleman why

:06:27. > :06:30.he should not have had the option of seeing it? That's not my point. I

:06:31. > :06:35.think people have a right to go if they want to go, but I think it is

:06:36. > :06:39.equally right for me to object to something that I feel strongly

:06:40. > :06:42.about... Hold on. That's not accurate because you would support

:06:43. > :06:45.the banning of that play? I would. You don't think he has the right to

:06:46. > :06:49.go? There is a thin line there because I mean there are many things

:06:50. > :06:53.that we should say, people shouldn't smoke in cars and yet they do. You

:06:54. > :06:57.know, there are many things we feel about, but I think it is right for

:06:58. > :07:02.me to say to anyone that as far as the Bible is concerned, it is a very

:07:03. > :07:12.sacred book to many of God's people and if this was the Koran, there

:07:13. > :07:17.would be an outcry. I can respect the fact that a Christian will say

:07:18. > :07:21.that they feel offended by it and they wouldn't want to see it, but to

:07:22. > :07:26.impose that view on other people is unacceptable. In terms of the Koran,

:07:27. > :07:34.there are lots of Muslims that would have a tolerant view and would

:07:35. > :07:37.say... To be fair to David. Well, let me ask you the question, do you

:07:38. > :07:43.think you would get away with poking fun at the Koran in the UK?

:07:44. > :07:48.Honestly? We have to go back to the starting point which was that there

:07:49. > :07:52.was a clear attempt at political censorship at a play that was coming

:07:53. > :08:00.to a local theatre in the area. Who by? In the area that I represent

:08:01. > :08:05.from the DUP on Newtownabbey Council. The DUP would say they are

:08:06. > :08:09.not on the artistic board, but you would say they put on a lot of

:08:10. > :08:17.pressure? There are two groups of people. I want to say that I accept

:08:18. > :08:20.the view that David McIlveen puts forward on behalf of his church and

:08:21. > :08:24.his constituency, I accept it and I respect it. But I also have to

:08:25. > :08:27.consider the views of the wider community who would appear to be the

:08:28. > :08:32.majority of the community who want to exercise their freedom of choice

:08:33. > :08:36.as to whether they see that play or not. How much pressure do you claim

:08:37. > :08:41.the DUP put on? Huge pressure within the council or we wouldn't have had

:08:42. > :08:45.this debate to start with. We did ask, by the way, guess what, we

:08:46. > :08:51.asked the DUP to come on, guess what, no, they are not coming on,

:08:52. > :08:56.but Newtownabbey councillor and politician, Billy Ball, he was one

:08:57. > :09:00.of them demanding the play be banned. Sorry, you can't make it

:09:01. > :09:09.tonight, it Billy Ball. It wasn't just the DUP that wanted it banned.

:09:10. > :09:12.The Ulster Unionists councillor. We can quote Billy Ball, he said this

:09:13. > :09:19.is supposed to be a Christian nation and we are allowing the Bible to be

:09:20. > :09:22.mocked a slated. Our parliaments are sworn under it. Christians can be

:09:23. > :09:26.slagged for their beliefs and I can take that, I don't mind that, but

:09:27. > :09:31.when it comes to the Bible, that's different. That's different. Now,

:09:32. > :09:36.that's what Councillor Ball says. He just isn't saying it here which is a

:09:37. > :09:40.pity. What do you think? I think we live in Northern Ireland. We don't

:09:41. > :09:50.live in China. We shouldn't be told what to go and see. I think it is an

:09:51. > :09:54.abuse of power. I would like to see the figures as to how many

:09:55. > :09:59.complaints were received and who received them and who made those

:10:00. > :10:02.complaints. And the man in the glasses. What would you think? I

:10:03. > :10:07.would put my point to David McIlveen. I attended Sunday school

:10:08. > :10:10.when I was five years old and I still attend my church today which

:10:11. > :10:15.was established long before your church. I have never heard a sermon

:10:16. > :10:23.preached on how to be intolerant, or how to dictate or impose your views

:10:24. > :10:29.on other people. So what gives you the right or any political party the

:10:30. > :10:34.right to impose their views, religious views and beliefs on me or

:10:35. > :10:41.anyone else just because you interpret the Bible differently from

:10:42. > :10:44.me, we both read the same Bible? I appreciate your point. You have

:10:45. > :10:49.every right to make it equally as I have every right to respond to it

:10:50. > :10:55.and I appreciate you have gone to Sunday school, but central to the

:10:56. > :10:58.Bible is the person of the Lord Jesus Christ who is the saviour of

:10:59. > :11:02.mankind and when I read recently about how many young people had no

:11:03. > :11:08.desire to look forward to life, they lost hope in life, to me the message

:11:09. > :11:14.of the Bible brings the answer to man's and women's individual needs.

:11:15. > :11:19.Is that an answer to his question? Why doesn't he have a right to see

:11:20. > :11:25.it? I haven't objected to it. Yous wanted it to be banned. I objected

:11:26. > :11:28.to the content and I have a right to see I feel it should be banned and

:11:29. > :11:32.equally people have a right to see it. If it is banned, you can't see

:11:33. > :11:38.it. There are many things, of course, you might feel very strongly

:11:39. > :11:43.about. I wouldn't want football on a Sunday, but it goes on. To be clear,

:11:44. > :11:48.did you want the play banned? I would have preferred if it had of

:11:49. > :11:53.been banned, yes. Absolutely. Hello. We live in a society which promotes

:11:54. > :11:59.tolerance and equality for all faith groups. I just question how this

:12:00. > :12:03.play promotes tolerance towards the Christian faith. Tell me what you

:12:04. > :12:11.mean. Well, so quite a lot of Christians are offended and find the

:12:12. > :12:14.play blasphemous. So how is that showing tolerance towards

:12:15. > :12:19.Christians? So you think it should be banned too? Yes, I do believe it

:12:20. > :12:26.should be banned. It is interesting for both you in the audience this

:12:27. > :12:33.gentleman to engage with you? What I would say to the Reverend... This

:12:34. > :12:37.lady here. She is a Christian, she thinks it should be banned. In

:12:38. > :12:45.Northern Ireland Christianity created for division in our country

:12:46. > :12:50.than anything else. That's a matter of opinion. Let's go up to

:12:51. > :12:56.Newtownabbey live. We can speak to Austin who is one of the men behind

:12:57. > :13:02.this play. Hello Austin. Hello, Stephen. Look at all the fuss you've

:13:03. > :13:06.caused and you're smiling tonight. I'm so sorry. But thank you for

:13:07. > :13:10.having me out here in this beautiful weather. It is a serious matter

:13:11. > :13:14.though, isn't it, when Northern Ireland over the last week, people

:13:15. > :13:18.are not just entitled to their Christian faith, but it is really a

:13:19. > :13:25.serious matter if they feel the Bible is being mocked? Yes, it is.

:13:26. > :13:32.It is a very serious matter and I respect everybody who thinks this is

:13:33. > :13:37.inappropriate. I would ask them to respect my belief that it is quite

:13:38. > :13:46.appropriate. So what bit of they don't want you to poke fun at the

:13:47. > :13:50.Bible did you not get? Well, I get they don't want me to do it, but

:13:51. > :13:54.what I don't understand, I'm part of the Christian tradition. I grew up

:13:55. > :13:59.with the Bible. The Bible is my book as much as it is anybody's book. I

:14:00. > :14:01.don't understand why their interpretation of the Bible

:14:02. > :14:07.supersedes my interpretation of the Bible or indeed of the people who

:14:08. > :14:12.wanted could come and see the show. Would you be comfortable creating a

:14:13. > :14:15.play that poked fun at the Koran? I wouldn't because that's not my book.

:14:16. > :14:19.I don't know anything about the Koran. It might be a very funny

:14:20. > :14:25.book, but I don't know anything about it. I do know that there are

:14:26. > :14:29.many Muslim comedians out there who poke fun at the Koran as is only

:14:30. > :14:32.proper. They should be allowed to poke fun at the Koran. There

:14:33. > :14:37.shouldn't be anything that you can't laugh at. I think comedy in theatre

:14:38. > :14:41.is a wonderful way to explore issues of faith, to bring people together

:14:42. > :14:46.of many different faiths. We had an audience of 400 people up there of

:14:47. > :14:52.believers, non-believers, all lifting their voices in laughter and

:14:53. > :14:57.celebration of the good book. I had a woman come up to me afterwards,

:14:58. > :15:01.and say, " I came to see the show and I bought a ticket because it had

:15:02. > :15:05.been banned and I was told it couldn't." She said I am not that

:15:06. > :15:08.religious and the show makes me want to go back and read more of the

:15:09. > :15:14.Bible. That wasn't our intention, we just want to have a good time with a

:15:15. > :15:20.lot of different people, but that was a by product. You are the son of

:15:21. > :15:27.a DUP councillor. That's right. That's as close as we are going to

:15:28. > :15:32.get to a DUP councillor tonight. Don't you go on my dad or I will go

:15:33. > :15:37.on your mum, Audrey. What gives people the right to ban this play?

:15:38. > :15:42.What gives politicians the right to intervene morally in a situation? I

:15:43. > :15:45.think it is the same right that David Cameron intervened and changed

:15:46. > :15:50.the definition of marriage. It is the same right. It is a politician's

:15:51. > :15:54.right. It is a democracy, but it seems when Christians do it, they

:15:55. > :15:58.are bigots, they are back ward, but when the vote goes right,

:15:59. > :16:04.commentators proclaim it as the victory for freedom. They are the

:16:05. > :16:08.champion of liberty and for our friend here, a word of advice... You

:16:09. > :16:13.can speak to him. Speak to him. Which one do I look into there? Just

:16:14. > :16:22.a word of advice, if you are thinking of doing it on the Koran,

:16:23. > :16:27.ring a guy called Salman Rushdie. The name of Jesus Christ in our

:16:28. > :16:34.society and in media abroad, and even if you don't believe in Jesus

:16:35. > :16:39.Christ his name is blasphemed day in and day out and Christians tolerate

:16:40. > :16:46.it. Patrick is sitting alongside you. We

:16:47. > :16:53.have come across a funny idea of tolerance and people's rights.

:16:54. > :16:58.Everyone in this country has freedom to practise their religion. What you

:16:59. > :17:02.do not have the right not to be offended. Now, everyone will find

:17:03. > :17:08.something offensive at some point. Of in a way, that's how all comedy

:17:09. > :17:14.works. Comedy is about failings and about tran transgressions. We draw a

:17:15. > :17:21.line in the BBC about what is acceptable and what isn't. Every

:17:22. > :17:27.broadcaster... The BBC is beamed into people's homes. Which is why

:17:28. > :17:30.you will not... You did play some of this play. The difference is, this

:17:31. > :17:33.is the theatre. People can choose to go to the theatre if they want to.

:17:34. > :17:37.People can choose to have a gay marriage and people can choose not

:17:38. > :17:46.to have a gay marriage. David Cameron can't change your definition

:17:47. > :17:50.of marriage. Two points. Let them fund that and let them fund

:17:51. > :17:54.themselves, it is a hard business. No, wait a minute, you said about

:17:55. > :17:57.gay marriage, he used his power to vote, but if it would have been the

:17:58. > :18:02.opposite, it would have been bigotry, but he is a democrat. He is

:18:03. > :18:06.a politician, has he to leave his view outside the door like a

:18:07. > :18:11.Christian is supposed to do leave his view? If you are not a

:18:12. > :18:15.Christian, you can bring your Marxism, your atheism into

:18:16. > :18:22.politician, you have the right, but a Christian has not the same right.

:18:23. > :18:31.You are saying that Christians don't have a right to bring religion into

:18:32. > :18:35.politics. I read the script. It was bigotry. You read the script to the

:18:36. > :18:40.play? No. I read articles when there was a call for a ban. Stephen, it is

:18:41. > :18:44.a difficult situation. A council which is linked with an Arts

:18:45. > :18:52.Theatre. This is difficult. I'm here to say for equality for all

:18:53. > :18:56.politicians and David Cameron and if David Cameron... If they believe in

:18:57. > :19:03.the ban so much, why did they go into hiding after they tried to ban

:19:04. > :19:09.it? Why have they gone to ground? And let everybody this programme

:19:10. > :19:12.know. Let them know. Let everybody watching this programme know that

:19:13. > :19:16.many journalists throughout this country have been on to those

:19:17. > :19:20.politicians that tried to ban this play and they went to ground. Their

:19:21. > :19:24.phones were off. They went into hiding. That's how much they

:19:25. > :19:32.believed it should be banned. They went into hiding! I forgot, is it

:19:33. > :19:38.not a democracy? Do they not have the freedom to say, "Stephen, I

:19:39. > :19:42.don't want to talk to you." You make a mistake. It is not about talking

:19:43. > :19:45.to me, not just to these people, but tens of thousands of people in this

:19:46. > :19:52.country who were saying as they are entitled to do, "We don't want you

:19:53. > :19:59.to see the play." We the don't want you to see the play. Mrausz

:20:00. > :20:06.APPLAUSE That's what a democracy is by the

:20:07. > :20:10.way. Frazer Agnew, Ulster Unionist Party, why didn't they stand up tall

:20:11. > :20:13.and say it? Maybe because they are tired of the hate mail and they

:20:14. > :20:19.don't want to take anymore tonight. As I say, answer my two questions.

:20:20. > :20:27.If David Cameron as a politician can interfere, why is Jesus clis

:20:28. > :20:30.blasphemed and you would be mad to make a documentary or something on

:20:31. > :20:36.it because of that. Don't you sitting here all cocksure, it was

:20:37. > :20:40.from your party, that the chair of the party was on the artistic board

:20:41. > :20:43.and he chaired the board that cancelled the play? Stephen, that

:20:44. > :20:48.can be dealt with easily and it has been dealt with previously. That

:20:49. > :20:52.councillor, my colleague, councillor Billy Webb wrote a letter as you

:20:53. > :20:58.know and we discussed it on the radio the other day on behalf of the

:20:59. > :21:04.board, as chairman of the board, not as Billy Webb, but chairman and it

:21:05. > :21:09.states that decision, that initial decision was taken with deep regret

:21:10. > :21:13.and everyone knows and especially after the publicity of the last

:21:14. > :21:18.number of days that decision was taken after tremendous public

:21:19. > :21:21.pressure on that artistic board. Tremendous public pressure which was

:21:22. > :21:26.reversed because the outcry of public opinion that demanded freedom

:21:27. > :21:29.of choice allowed that board to sit down and look at that again. There

:21:30. > :21:33.are two bands of people who have been forgotten in this argument

:21:34. > :21:36.really, but one of the audience did mention it tonight. First of all,

:21:37. > :21:39.and I have spoken to many of them in the last few days, there are

:21:40. > :21:43.Christian people out there in the community who feel they are being

:21:44. > :21:45.accused of being less Christian because they don't share the views

:21:46. > :21:50.of a smaller number of people and that's not a good situation to be

:21:51. > :21:53.in. There is another band of people who are the customers of that

:21:54. > :21:57.theatre and the rate payers of Newtownabbey who have a right to

:21:58. > :22:00.choose for themselves whether or not they go to the theatre. OK. Listen

:22:01. > :22:06.if you want to pick up the phone at home tonight, the numbers will come

:22:07. > :22:17.up across your screen: The calls will cost five pence a

:22:18. > :22:25.minute and additional cost may apply. The hashtag we're using

:22:26. > :22:31.tonight BBC Nolan. That's the wrong text. Here it is on the screen now.

:22:32. > :22:37.Texts will be charged at your standard message rate. Up there in

:22:38. > :22:41.the grey jumper. Stephen, could I ask the gentleman who gave his views

:22:42. > :22:49.in the front row and John Blair there, any of the two of them Born

:22:50. > :22:54.Again Christians? No, I don't consider myself. Why do you ask? To

:22:55. > :22:58.me that's the reason whyment there lies your answer to why neither the

:22:59. > :23:02.two of them are insulted by the play because they are not Born Again

:23:03. > :23:15.Christians. You came down on our bus tonight after the play? Yes, I would

:23:16. > :23:21.consider myself Born Again. I attend a non subscribing Presbyterian

:23:22. > :23:25.church. What we are doing is swearing on the Bible, the Bible

:23:26. > :23:30.tells us not to swear by anything on earth or in heaven. OK. Thank you. I

:23:31. > :23:35.just want to give you time to tell me why you would object to this. You

:23:36. > :23:41.are a Christian and why would you object to this? I haven't seen the

:23:42. > :23:45.play. I have just read about it and listened to the views tonight. The

:23:46. > :23:49.Bible does tell you about jokes and stuff and that's the only cliff that

:23:50. > :23:53.I have seen of it that was on at the top of the show. So if it is all

:23:54. > :23:58.like that I would rather that it didn't, you know, that it wasn't

:23:59. > :24:03.played or that the actual play itself wasn't in circulation, I

:24:04. > :24:11.suppose. It is not twisting the scripture, but it is sort of taking

:24:12. > :24:16.the mick out of it Let's have another look. The Last Supper. You

:24:17. > :24:23.are probably wondering why I asked you here. What's going on? Why are

:24:24. > :24:30.we sitting on the same side of the table, that's what I want to know?

:24:31. > :24:39.Do you love me John? Do you love me Thomas? I I doubt it. I have it on

:24:40. > :24:43.good authority that one of you will betray me? No. Do you apologise to

:24:44. > :24:50.those people in Northern Ireland who you have offended because you know

:24:51. > :24:54.you have offended some? I apologise because that was never our intention

:24:55. > :24:59.to offend anybody. But sometimes people get offended and I can't

:25:00. > :25:05.control that. We set out to write an entertaining celebration of the

:25:06. > :25:09.Bible and to the man who thought it was concerted it maybe like that. It

:25:10. > :25:13.is not like that joke and if you had come to see it, you would know that

:25:14. > :25:18.are. David McIlveen is there a learning from this in terms of there

:25:19. > :25:24.were no protesters there and when the objections came in about the

:25:25. > :25:27.play, his ticket sales rocketed? I think there are lessons. I mean if

:25:28. > :25:35.people can be inspired to read the Bible and I make the point to Austin

:25:36. > :25:40.that what he is presenting is not the Bible as I understand it. It is

:25:41. > :25:45.a dismantling of the be Bible's message for the sake of some

:25:46. > :25:48.theatrical performance to draw the interest of the people. It is not

:25:49. > :25:55.the word of God. The word of God is pure. The scene about the Lord's

:25:56. > :26:01.table, I find that totally offence I have sive... We never said it was

:26:02. > :26:06.the Lord's... Well, it is. It is the Last Supper and the Lord Jesus

:26:07. > :26:13.Christ was about to go to the cross to die for sinners. Let him reply

:26:14. > :26:18.because he is on a satellite. I was just going to say we don't claim it

:26:19. > :26:29.to be the true word of God. We say right there in the title, it is the

:26:30. > :26:33.complete word of God abridged presented by The Reduced Shakespeare

:26:34. > :26:38.Company. It is clear in the title that it is not the true word of God.

:26:39. > :26:46.I will go home tonight and talk to you on Twitter about the subjects we

:26:47. > :26:48.deal with on the programme. Ladies and gentlemen, please give our

:26:49. > :26:51.guests a round of applause. Thank you very much.

:26:52. > :26:53.APPLAUSE Here is what's still top come on the

:26:54. > :27:00.programme: There are calls to reduce the voting

:27:01. > :27:07.age to 16. Are they mature enough? Do they know enough? Earlier this

:27:08. > :27:10.month, are TV wannabees turned up at Belfast's Waterfront Hall to

:27:11. > :27:15.audition for the next series of Britain's Got Talent. In 2007, my

:27:16. > :27:19.next guest became the first ever winner of that TV show. Let's remind

:27:20. > :27:24.ourselves of his first appearance in front of the judges.

:27:25. > :27:40.Paul, what are you here for today, Paul? To sing opera.

:27:41. > :27:48.OK. Ready, when you are. APPLAUSE

:27:49. > :27:52.I think that we've got a case of a little lump of coal here that's

:27:53. > :28:04.going to turn into a diamond. You are through to the next round.

:28:05. > :28:14.I had goose pimples. Ladies and gentlemen, a Northern Ireland

:28:15. > :28:28.welcome for Paul Potts. APPLAUSE

:28:29. > :28:33.You know what, I don't think I'm known for being too sycophantic to

:28:34. > :28:37.guests, but when I hear you sing, I think you are amazing and I mean

:28:38. > :28:40.that, and we are going to have the pleasure of hearing you sing

:28:41. > :28:46.tonight. What is more extraordinary is the journey you have had through

:28:47. > :28:51.life, Paul, before you became a worldwide singer and when you were

:28:52. > :28:56.in school, you were bullied so much that yous didn't have any confidence

:28:57. > :28:59.about yourself. What happened? Bless you!

:29:00. > :29:06.LAUGHTER Well, basically, I mean I, it all

:29:07. > :29:11.started really when I was about seven and I had extensive and quite

:29:12. > :29:16.systematic bullying from the age of seven until I left school at 19. So

:29:17. > :29:21.I had 12 years of really quite, it started with name calling and then

:29:22. > :29:25.people would start throwing things at me and then they would try and

:29:26. > :29:32.throw me through windows and it just kind of left me in the position

:29:33. > :29:37.where I just felt like I was nothing because when somebody tells you

:29:38. > :29:41.something again and again and again, sooner or later you will start to

:29:42. > :29:49.believe them. That's a very profound thing to say, you felt like nothing.

:29:50. > :29:54.What do you mean? Well, there were instances where a

:29:55. > :30:00.lot of the kids at school would pretend that I was dead and shout

:30:01. > :30:04.out Paul Potts is dead and everybody would cheer and they would make sure

:30:05. > :30:10.that I was within earshot when it was happening and the old trick of,

:30:11. > :30:13.you know, inviting everybody to 18th birthday parties and they would make

:30:14. > :30:20.sure they would invite everybody around me and tell me to my face,

:30:21. > :30:25."Oh, we are not inviting you." They would shout and cheer. How old were

:30:26. > :30:30.you? It was through secondary school from 12 to 18 it would happen quite

:30:31. > :30:36.regularly. And what happens to you when that's done to you? You kind

:30:37. > :30:43.of, it makes you feel completely worthless because as a person you

:30:44. > :30:47.always look for acceptance and for and you judge yourself as a person

:30:48. > :30:52.on the basis of your interactions with other people and if your

:30:53. > :30:59.interactions with other people are 100% negative then your response

:31:00. > :31:03.about yourself will be negative. And when that's happening to you,

:31:04. > :31:05.obviously there is no excuse for what they are doing, it is

:31:06. > :31:10.unbelievable, but do you try to think in your head why are they

:31:11. > :31:16.doing it to me? Do you do that? Like, why are they targeting you? I

:31:17. > :31:21.am quite a philosophical person and I ask myself that constantly and you

:31:22. > :31:25.try and find a reason and my biggest problem was always that I couldn't

:31:26. > :31:30.find a reason, but I wanted to find a reason, but I constantly get that

:31:31. > :31:33.vicious circle of never being able to find out why and you end up

:31:34. > :31:40.grabbing any reason and the reason you assume it is because you are

:31:41. > :31:45.worthless. Because you are nothing. Because there is nothing good about

:31:46. > :31:51.you, you know, you know, I turned around to them and asked them why

:31:52. > :31:55.they hated me so much? And they said, "Well, we hate you, because

:31:56. > :31:59.you are you." When you have got enough people telling you that, you

:32:00. > :32:05.do take it to heart. Where were your teachers in all this? Well, I

:32:06. > :32:09.started at the start I did start to try and tell the teachers, but the

:32:10. > :32:13.trouble is that can be counter productive because what happens,

:32:14. > :32:21.there was an incident at school where one of the kids tried and

:32:22. > :32:26.throwed me through a -- tried to throw me through a window. I managed

:32:27. > :32:31.to pull away and I caught the corner of my head on the open window and I

:32:32. > :32:36.have a scar on the back of my head and the bully stood over me like a

:32:37. > :32:43.concerned bystander just to make sure that I didn't tell on him and I

:32:44. > :32:48.learned quite quickly that being a tell tale got you nowhere, all it

:32:49. > :32:54.got you was more beatings. Do you think that still has scarred you? I

:32:55. > :33:03.think that and this is one of the reasons I think that abuse at school

:33:04. > :33:08.and a lot of people give bullies different names, but it is abuse at

:33:09. > :33:15.the end of the day and when you get systematic bullying and abuse at

:33:16. > :33:21.school, it leaves you open to other forms of abuse and it means that you

:33:22. > :33:27.don't then oppose what you should because you feel that worthless that

:33:28. > :33:32.you think anybody has got the right to do whatever they want to do. What

:33:33. > :33:40.you are getting to, when you were between 15 and 17, you were sexually

:33:41. > :33:44.abused? Yeah. I just didn't speak out about it. I didn't speak to my

:33:45. > :33:51.parents about it. I only told my parents about six months ago and

:33:52. > :33:58.it's, you don't want to tell people that you are close to because it is

:33:59. > :34:05.a bit of a variation of the old saying, "Better to keep your mouth

:34:06. > :34:16.shut and for people to think you are a foul." The people that I care

:34:17. > :34:22.about most know that I'm worthless and that's not right, but that's how

:34:23. > :34:31.things work in your head and it's and this is kind of where you get,

:34:32. > :34:35.if you get repeated bullying, you end up accepting things and ifds I

:34:36. > :34:40.have seen what happened over the last year or so with the number of

:34:41. > :34:46.suicides amongst young people and a lot of online bullying and that's

:34:47. > :34:53.the reason why I don't use the word, "Troll." They are not trolls. They

:34:54. > :34:57.don't have a trendy name. They are just bullies. And I think there is

:34:58. > :35:02.more than one way of dealing with them. I think, I hear people saying

:35:03. > :35:09.quite often that, you know, we need a zero tolerance policy towards

:35:10. > :35:14.bullies. To me that's completely meaningless. If you had your time

:35:15. > :35:19.again, would you cry out for help? If things happen the way they did, I

:35:20. > :35:22.am the same person so I would probably react in the same way. I

:35:23. > :35:28.guess there would be a few young people watching this tonight, they

:35:29. > :35:32.might bullied in school, if you are being bullied or being sexually

:35:33. > :35:40.abused, please, please ask for help. Please do that and it is very

:35:41. > :35:45.important that you do so. I hate hearing any individual say they are

:35:46. > :35:51.worthless, I do. It is a very sad thing, isn't it, when whoever it is

:35:52. > :35:57.that is around you in society, some of your teachers, for goodness sake,

:35:58. > :36:03.I wish they had kicked in there for you. Did you find during that stage,

:36:04. > :36:12.during that trauma that music was a comfort? It was the one space that I

:36:13. > :36:16.had that I belonged in and any other school group or situation, I didn't

:36:17. > :36:21.really fit in or really belong. It was the one space where I had

:36:22. > :36:26.something where I seemed to be accepted and I tended to be

:36:27. > :36:31.reasonably good at it and it gave me confidence, but I never had that

:36:32. > :36:35.final bit of confidence to really go for it in anyway. It wasn't

:36:36. > :36:39.something that I ever saw as being a career. But you felt at ease when

:36:40. > :36:43.you were singing? Yes and it always felt like that. It has always been

:36:44. > :36:49.like a key opening a door and I always felt like it is a space where

:36:50. > :36:52.I belonged, but it was just mine. It wasn't anybody else's and making any

:36:53. > :36:58.kind of decision to share that part of my life would kind of leave me

:36:59. > :37:02.open to criticism and you know, often criticism is helpful, but when

:37:03. > :37:09.you are used to people being abusive then you are a bit scared of

:37:10. > :37:12.criticism because you don't necessarily know how to interpret

:37:13. > :37:18.what's personal and what's not and it is very difficult to tell the

:37:19. > :37:26.difference. So you have got that background, right? And we know you

:37:27. > :37:35.from Britain's Got Talent. But actually you were working in car

:37:36. > :37:40.phone warehouse. What makes you apply with a lack of self esteem to

:37:41. > :37:45.one of the biggest TV shows in the UK? I was working online. I was

:37:46. > :37:51.doing my figures as a manager I had to do a weekly e-mail to my area

:37:52. > :37:55.manager and send him my figures and my action plan and how I was going

:37:56. > :38:00.to improve it. I was taking a break from that and I had a pop up window

:38:01. > :38:05.and there was Simon Cowell's face and I tried to close it and it just

:38:06. > :38:07.wouldn't close! LAUGHTER

:38:08. > :38:12.It is like him on the TV, you try and turn him over to another channel

:38:13. > :38:17.and he is still there! I ended up maximising it and I thought well, I

:38:18. > :38:23.will fill it in. I got to the bottom and caught my reflection in my

:38:24. > :38:29.laptop and I thought well, why would you ever press submit? Why would you

:38:30. > :38:34.enter? You do the wrong kind of music, you are too old, you are too

:38:35. > :38:38.fat, and you have got a great face for radio, why would they pick you?

:38:39. > :38:43.Because it ended up... I flipped a coin. That's how I decided in the

:38:44. > :38:50.end. You flipped a coin? I flipped a coin. And that flip of a coin led to

:38:51. > :38:51.this. The winner of Britain's Got Talent is Paul Potts.

:38:52. > :39:15.CHEERING AND APPLAUSE Did you feel worth something there?

:39:16. > :39:23.I felt bemused. I wondered what the hell was happening? I almost broke

:39:24. > :39:26.down when I was speaking to Ant and Dec afterwards. Those are really

:39:27. > :39:29.special moments when you have something happen in your life like

:39:30. > :39:34.that when you don't expect anything and this is why I always advice

:39:35. > :39:38.people when you do shows like Britain's Got Talent, don't have any

:39:39. > :39:41.second guesses as to what is going to happen because you spoil the

:39:42. > :39:47.surprise. We can see you and Simon Cowell together. There you are and

:39:48. > :39:51.of course, I know you are coming to the Waterfront in November here in

:39:52. > :39:56.Belfast, but you have been singing around the world. How many album

:39:57. > :40:03.sales do you now have? I believe it is around four to five million and I

:40:04. > :40:08.have done more than 500 shows in the last six years. It is not bad from a

:40:09. > :40:14.man Pavarotti said didn't have the talent to make it? Well, he didn't

:40:15. > :40:18.really say that. In the film he did. Oh the film, because they are making

:40:19. > :40:22.a film of your life, right? The film. I know in evidence made it.

:40:23. > :40:26.Let's -- I know they have made it, let's have a look at it. As long as

:40:27. > :40:30.I can remember, I wanted to sing. But it turned out that not everybody

:40:31. > :40:39.loved the sound of my voice as my mum did and I got teased and

:40:40. > :40:49.bullied. There was a scene of violence, it was kind of like an

:40:50. > :40:54.opera, the opera of my life. You think the last 66 seconds of this

:40:55. > :40:57.interview, winning Britain's Got Talent, Simon Cowell, millions of

:40:58. > :41:01.album sales, making a film about you. I'm jealous. What is it? Can

:41:02. > :41:07.you believe it? I never do quite believe it, but I

:41:08. > :41:14.mean, I think in some ways, what I went through as a child that helped

:41:15. > :41:20.me deal with success because when I was in my teens, I just got through

:41:21. > :41:25.one day to the next. In I made it to the next, I looked on that as an

:41:26. > :41:29.achievement. Now, what I do is I just live each day, a day at a time.

:41:30. > :41:33.I never ever try and look too far beyond and I think that's probably

:41:34. > :41:39.one of the most important things that anybody that does anything like

:41:40. > :41:43.that should do because otherwise you start believing the hype and then

:41:44. > :41:46.you don't know who the hell you are and your own identity is something

:41:47. > :41:50.that you should never allow anybody to take away from you. Can I say to

:41:51. > :41:54.people watching this at home, no matter what age you are, whether you

:41:55. > :41:57.are a youngster about to go out and make it in life or whether you have

:41:58. > :42:03.been told many times by anybody, if you have been told you are nothing,

:42:04. > :42:08.just watch this man sing. Just listen to the talent this man who

:42:09. > :42:13.was told he was nothing has and how he got there in the end. Paul, thank

:42:14. > :42:17.you so, so much for coming here. I really appreciate it. Thank you. I

:42:18. > :42:21.think your story is inspirational, I really do. It would be our pleasure

:42:22. > :42:29.if you would walk to the stage, sir. All right, Paul Potts, ladies and

:42:30. > :42:42.gentlemen. APPLAUSE

:42:43. > :42:58.# Nessun dorma! Nessun dorma! # Tu pure, o Principessa, nella tua

:42:59. > :43:11.fredda stanza guardi le stelle che tremano d'amore e di speranza!

:43:12. > :43:37.# Ma il mio mistero e chiuso in me, il nome mio nessun sapra.

:43:38. > :44:05.# No, no, sulla tua bocca lo diro, quando la luce splendera!

:44:06. > :44:22.# Ed il mio bacio sciogliera il silenzio che ti fa mia!

:44:23. > :44:58.# Il nome suo nessun sapra E noi dovrem, ahime, morir, morir.

:44:59. > :45:23.# Dilegua, o notte! # Tramontate, stelle!

:45:24. > :45:31.# All'alba vincero! # Vincero! Vincero! #

:45:32. > :46:05.Wow. Wow. Thank you, Paul. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

:46:06. > :46:08.Right, we're going to move on. They are legal allowed to have sex, get

:46:09. > :46:12.married, join the Army and even drive a tractor, but 16 and

:46:13. > :46:17.17-year-olds can't vote in this country. That might change, Labour

:46:18. > :46:22.said lowering the voting age will be one of the first things they do if

:46:23. > :46:29.they get back in power. What do you think? Is that a good idea? The

:46:30. > :46:37.former MP, Jerry Hayes is with us tonight and Basil McCrea. Why not?

:46:38. > :46:44.Because it is a mad idea. It is basically, I had 30 seconds with

:46:45. > :46:48.Basil and he is a reasonable person which in Northern Ireland is a rare

:46:49. > :46:55.having seen the first debate, but there we go. These are politicians

:46:56. > :46:59.who are patronising young people and looking for their vote. There is 1.5

:47:00. > :47:04.million people who are 16 years old. What knowledge of life have they

:47:05. > :47:08.got? The next thing is they get the vote they are entitled to stand for

:47:09. > :47:12.Parliament and then they are entitled to sit on juries, would you

:47:13. > :47:21.want a 16-year-old on the jury determining whether you went to

:47:22. > :47:25.prison or not? It is insane. APPLAUSE

:47:26. > :47:30.Well, if it is maturity that you are after, I wonder how you are going to

:47:31. > :47:33.measure it because if you look at Northern Ireland politics, I am not

:47:34. > :47:37.sure that the word mature is what I would use to describe it! What I

:47:38. > :47:41.really this I is that young people have the right to have a job, the

:47:42. > :47:44.right to pay tax, therefore, they have the right to decide how that

:47:45. > :47:49.money is spent. What I really want to see is for the older generation

:47:50. > :47:54.of politicians to move on out of this place. Including you? If

:47:55. > :47:58.necessary. I'm not wedded to the place. I want to see young people

:47:59. > :48:03.get involved and I want to see democracy work and I believe young

:48:04. > :48:08.people have a huge stake. You want their vote! I would like everybody's

:48:09. > :48:12.vote. Do you not want the vote of young people? I wasn't mad enough to

:48:13. > :48:15.say that 16-year-olds should have the vote. Are you able to tell me

:48:16. > :48:21.that every single person that voted for you was mature? That you

:48:22. > :48:25.accepted only votes from people that you decided were mature? Well, of

:48:26. > :48:29.course not. Of course not. There are 60 -year-old people who shouldn't

:48:30. > :48:37.have the vote. Its as simple as that. But you have got to draw the

:48:38. > :48:43.line somewhere. Why did you lose your seat? Because I was a Tory. I

:48:44. > :48:50.was a Conservative in 1997, I was culled like a baby seal! I don't

:48:51. > :48:54.care why he lost his vote. I guess a young man like this, how old are

:48:55. > :48:58.you? I'm 18. You are 18. So you can vote? Yeah. Do you think you should

:48:59. > :49:02.have been able to vote a couple of years ago? If I was 16 years old and

:49:03. > :49:07.old enough to join the Army and go into war and risk my life, I think I

:49:08. > :49:12.should have the ability to vote. But you couldn't join the Army without

:49:13. > :49:16.your parent's consent, no and you couldn't fight for your country

:49:17. > :49:23.until you were 18. You couldn't have sex at 16 with anyone you wanted

:49:24. > :49:27.because there is laws against that. It is a nonsense to suggest because

:49:28. > :49:33.you can join the Army, but your mum and dad have to approve it. To get

:49:34. > :49:40.ma aried at 16 -- married at 16, your mum and dad have to approve it.

:49:41. > :49:47.Who is being patronising, Jerry? Me. A young lady at the back. Go ahead.

:49:48. > :49:50.Can I just point out the fact that you said that the Government has

:49:51. > :49:54.been patronising is the most patronising thing I heard. Why would

:49:55. > :49:59.I have any interest in politics if there is people like you? It is

:50:00. > :50:05.about getting young people involved when they are young. I ray greed

:50:06. > :50:13.with that -- I agree with that 100%. Of Do you not think that people

:50:14. > :50:18.should get involved by getting the vote? The majority of 16-year-olds

:50:19. > :50:24.don't want the vote at all. The comparison is interesting. If you

:50:25. > :50:29.look at the last elections 51% of 18 to 25-year-olds were voting against

:50:30. > :50:33.and a normal average of 65%. So young people right across-the-board,

:50:34. > :50:37.they are not engaging in politics. Now, that either means they don't

:50:38. > :50:42.care and it is their fault and they are being bored stupid by the

:50:43. > :50:46.politicians or the other politicians aren't reaching out to them. Let's

:50:47. > :50:52.talk about Northern Ireland. Do you feel excited by Northern Irish

:50:53. > :50:57.politics? Me. Yes. Not at all. Why not? It affects your life. It

:50:58. > :51:01.affects your future. It affects what type of job that you have. The

:51:02. > :51:05.education, when you get sick. When I hear young people tell me they don't

:51:06. > :51:09.care about politics, why not? I'm going to study politics next year.

:51:10. > :51:15.It is more the fact from a young age I wasn't encouraged by anyone. I was

:51:16. > :51:17.encouraged my my teacher who was a really inspirational teacher and I

:51:18. > :51:22.took an interest. I am not interested because politicians don't

:51:23. > :51:28.take an interest in young people in this country. Go on, Basil? There is

:51:29. > :51:31.an issue about why you get... You are sitting there as if you are not

:51:32. > :51:40.a politician, you are one of them? Yeah, I know. I think I could only

:51:41. > :51:43.do worse by Stephen Nolan. There is a serious point, if you want people

:51:44. > :51:47.to get involved in politics, you have to explain to them what the

:51:48. > :51:50.decision making process is like and how you go about it. One of the

:51:51. > :51:54.issues for many young people, if there isn't an election when they

:51:55. > :51:57.are 18, they end up going to college or university and go away and when a

:51:58. > :52:01.general election is called, they don't vote. I pt want to see -- I

:52:02. > :52:05.want to see people from the age of 16, encouraged and explained about

:52:06. > :52:11.what their options are. They are mature enough to make decisions. We

:52:12. > :52:14.can't get 18-year-olds to engage. We are not doing it properly at school.

:52:15. > :52:18.There is a real issue here. Young people have a huge stake in the

:52:19. > :52:21.future. Many of our decisions that we make and I would say about youth

:52:22. > :52:26.unemployment. You will get more attention to this issue if you have

:52:27. > :52:31.votes. There is no bigger disappointment for me than when I

:52:32. > :52:39.see our young people that have to leave here to go and get a job. The

:52:40. > :52:53.person with his hand up? As a young person I was engaged with politics.

:52:54. > :52:58.I was part of a group that was part of the committee. Basil was in the

:52:59. > :53:05.middle of a leadership race at the time which he did not win. He used

:53:06. > :53:12.this initiative to get support for the DUP to say that he was answer

:53:13. > :53:19.gaeged engaged with young people. There was an issue that came up on

:53:20. > :53:24.that committee. He through a civil servant out of the room... Is this

:53:25. > :53:31.about what we are talking about? It is, indeed. Let's focus on whether

:53:32. > :53:38.16 and 17-year-olds... I was a 17-year-old. Basil is sitting here

:53:39. > :53:44.talking about trying to get young people involved in politics. I was

:53:45. > :53:51.affronted by a politician that night. OK. Thank you for your point.

:53:52. > :53:55.Basil, do you want to reply? Only to say that I think that it is

:53:56. > :53:58.important that young people get involved and when there are

:53:59. > :54:02.difficulties you try and assist and move forward and it is all part of

:54:03. > :54:09.the learning process. Let's go to this young man here, white shirt? I

:54:10. > :54:14.would agree by Basil's comments, there is not enough being done in

:54:15. > :54:16.schools. The reason for me not voting is because I didn't

:54:17. > :54:19.understand what parties had to offer because it wasn't offered to me in

:54:20. > :54:24.school and I would challenge anybody in the audience that said they would

:54:25. > :54:28.vote if they had the vote at 16. I find that really interesting. You

:54:29. > :54:32.didn't understand what parties had to offer. Tell me what you mean by

:54:33. > :54:41.that? What politics was about. Now that I've grown a little more, I

:54:42. > :54:46.have gathered more of an understanding. Stephen, this is a

:54:47. > :54:52.problem. That's the failure of society, are of the media. When he

:54:53. > :54:56.with use the word, "Politics." I believe strongly, what poll fix is

:54:57. > :55:01.what -- politics is what is going to affect your life. What decisions are

:55:02. > :55:06.being made in this country that are going to affect your life? That's

:55:07. > :55:10.politics. I would like to challenge anybody that said they would take

:55:11. > :55:18.their vote at 16. Would that be your vote or your parents vote? Would you

:55:19. > :55:24.have an understanding of politics? Do you think 16-year-olds show

:55:25. > :55:28.independence in the house? Do you think 16-year-olds do what their

:55:29. > :55:34.parents tell them to do? Do you think it changes when they get to

:55:35. > :55:39.24, 34 or 44? Many people follow what their parents used to vote. I

:55:40. > :55:43.want to encourage people to have an inquiring mind, to be informed, and

:55:44. > :55:50.when they do that, they should be allowed to express it in a

:55:51. > :55:54.democratic way. I want to bring in Beth McDaid. I am a member of the

:55:55. > :55:57.Youth Parliament for south Belfast. You are saying the majority of young

:55:58. > :56:01.people don't care about politics and don't want to get involved. What

:56:02. > :56:06.would you say to the 700 plus young auto people in Northern Ireland who

:56:07. > :56:14.voted forhe members of Youth Parliament? It

:56:15. > :56:17.voted forhe members of Youth died for the right to vote in this

:56:18. > :56:22.don't care how you vote, but you should vote. The problem is not just

:56:23. > :56:26.young people... But, you are telling them they are not mature enough? The

:56:27. > :56:32.majority of 16-year-olds are not mature enough. Let's get back to the

:56:33. > :56:36.real, real issue. There is a problem, there is a democratic

:56:37. > :56:42.deficit in this country and probably throughout the whole of Europe and

:56:43. > :56:46.the western world. People are disillusioned with politics and

:56:47. > :56:55.disillusioned with politicians, they don't trust them. How do we get them

:56:56. > :57:00.all engaged? It is all right for B asil... How do you expect us to be

:57:01. > :57:03.engaged if what we engage doesn't mean anything? Do you think it is

:57:04. > :57:06.right that a 16-year-old should be elected or should stand for

:57:07. > :57:11.Parliament without any experience of life? Do you think it is right that

:57:12. > :57:17.a 16-year-old should sit on a jury? We have one minute. How can you give

:57:18. > :57:20.a 16-year-old a vote when people my age and a lot older don't vote

:57:21. > :57:26.because what do politicians do for us? A lot of them don't do anything

:57:27. > :57:31.for us. If you don't vote, you will get the mad extremists in. People

:57:32. > :57:36.died for that right. I am not sure you should be allowed to participate

:57:37. > :57:41.in this debate because you don't vote. If you don't vote, you have no

:57:42. > :57:46.say. Why would you give 16-year-olds the right to vote. Their parents

:57:47. > :57:53.still have hold over them. I am pushing 19 and my mummy and daddy

:57:54. > :57:59.have a push over me. You don't rebel against your mum and dad? I would

:58:00. > :58:03.still respect my mother and father. It is not about respect. You can

:58:04. > :58:08.disagree with them? You are going to give them the same opportunities as

:58:09. > :58:11.their mother and father. What happens when you get into Parliament

:58:12. > :58:17.or you get into a council, you do as the whips tell you. He just said

:58:18. > :58:21.that he is in control of his parents. Should he not be allowed to

:58:22. > :58:24.vote at 19? We are going to have to continue this on the radio in the

:58:25. > :58:33.morning. Will you come on the radio in the morning? I will be at school

:58:34. > :58:40.then. 9am tomorrow morning. Thank you for your company. Night-night.