:00:00. > :00:09.Welcome along. Five deaths in the Royal Victoria Hospital. Any waiting
:00:10. > :00:13.time is a potential factor. We speak tonight to one of the families. The
:00:14. > :00:20.DUP say benefit payments could be switched off in 2016. Spin or could
:00:21. > :00:25.that really happen? Journalist and broadcaster, Sally
:00:26. > :00:30.Magnusson, on losing her mum to dementia.
:00:31. > :00:33.And the Belfast mother who wowed the judges on The Voice. Jai McConnell
:00:34. > :01:07.will be singing live tonight. Hello there.
:01:08. > :01:12.Thanks a lot for joining me tonight. We're starting with a really
:01:13. > :01:16.important story. Five people died at the Royal Victoria Hospital's
:01:17. > :01:20.emergency department. Waiting times were a potential contributing factor
:01:21. > :01:24.in each of their deaths. In a development tonight, we have been
:01:25. > :01:28.contacted by the family of one of those five people. For the first
:01:29. > :01:37.time we can now hear from the daughter of a patient who died.
:01:38. > :01:43.My mum was 80. But she was a very active, very caring, loving mother
:01:44. > :01:48.of eight children. A grandmother of 19. She was someone who enjoyed life
:01:49. > :01:53.to the full and was a very independent lady. She drove her own
:01:54. > :02:00.car and enjoyed going on holidays with her children. She had a good
:02:01. > :02:06.network of friends and outlets our local community of Cookstown. She
:02:07. > :02:10.was always somebody out and about and always there for her family. The
:02:11. > :02:15.impression given by the trust, Colette, was that the people who
:02:16. > :02:20.died were infirm, seriously ill. Was your mother? No. No. And in fact,
:02:21. > :02:26.earlier, you know, in the days prior to that, my mum had been down with
:02:27. > :02:31.myself and you know, her grandchildren for Hallowe'en. Two
:02:32. > :02:36.months prior to that, she was with myself and my sister in Wicklow for
:02:37. > :02:42.a holiday. No, she was very active, a very fit woman, a very capable
:02:43. > :02:46.woman of very sound mind. What happened to her? She had fallen and
:02:47. > :02:51.had sustained a head injury, yes. And she is in the hospital. She is
:02:52. > :02:55.where she should be. She is in A and they are supposed to assess how
:02:56. > :03:00.ill everyone is when they walk in the door? Yes. So when they assessed
:03:01. > :03:06.her, did they assess her rightly or wrongly?
:03:07. > :03:10.They, she was triaged, but she was triaged incorrectly and you know,
:03:11. > :03:15.you know, I have documented this and sent it to you, Stephen, you know,
:03:16. > :03:21.in an e-mail about what happened and I don't really want to go into it
:03:22. > :03:25.again. You know, my family have been devastated by the death of my mum
:03:26. > :03:31.and you know, I appreciate that, you know, death comes to us all and
:03:32. > :03:34.there is no good time, you know, to lose your mum, but so many issues in
:03:35. > :03:40.relation to mum's care and treatment, you know, that has left
:03:41. > :03:45.us feeling somewhat, you know, untrusting or at the very least
:03:46. > :03:47.cautious in relation to the National Health Service. Give me a sense of
:03:48. > :03:54.what the hospital was like that night, the A department. How busy
:03:55. > :03:59.was it? It was very busy. It was very busy. If you were to look
:04:00. > :04:05.around you, what did you see? It was, well, it was very busy and in
:04:06. > :04:10.my job I would be in and out of A on occasions so I know that is what
:04:11. > :04:16.A would be like. But you know, my mum had been left, you know, sitting
:04:17. > :04:21.for, you know, hours in A She had been triaged, but that has been done
:04:22. > :04:25.incorrectly. She was left for sometime and you know, we feel that
:04:26. > :04:30.because she had been left for so long that, you know, that that may
:04:31. > :04:35.have contributed to her death. What affect has this had on your family?
:04:36. > :04:42.You know, my family are completely, you know, devastated you know, by
:04:43. > :04:46.the death of my mum and you know, you know, we do understand that
:04:47. > :04:52.death does come to everybody and you know, there is, you know, no easy
:04:53. > :05:02.way to lose your mum, but it has left us feeling somewhat cautious or
:05:03. > :05:04.maybe untrusting in relation to National Health Service. I am very
:05:05. > :05:08.aware this has been a news story over the last couple of days, but
:05:09. > :05:15.you are sitting in your home and it is not a news story, it is your mum?
:05:16. > :05:24.Why Yes. Yes. Yes. Has your mum been let down by the system? Yes. We
:05:25. > :05:34.think that my mum, well we know she deserved a lot better and she didn't
:05:35. > :05:41.get the care that she deserved. But we would stress that our experience
:05:42. > :05:48.of A on that occasion was not reflective of my mum's treatment and
:05:49. > :05:54.care when she went to the neurosurgery ward in the Royal. Her
:05:55. > :06:00.care there was outstanding. Can I just ask you one final question? You
:06:01. > :06:03.are in the position where the trust did inform you that there was a
:06:04. > :06:09.serious adverse incident which contributed to your mother's death?
:06:10. > :06:15.Yes. There were three families who were not told. Yes. Can you even
:06:16. > :06:19.remotely put yourself in that position of they are going to find
:06:20. > :06:24.out very soon or they have found out within the last couple of days for
:06:25. > :06:31.the first time that this was kept from them? No. I can only just
:06:32. > :06:36.imagine how they feel because I know when we were going through it and
:06:37. > :06:40.when we were meeting with the Royal, it was heartbreaking and
:06:41. > :06:46.devastating. OK. I really appreciate you talking to me. And thank you for
:06:47. > :06:51.trusting us with your story. OK. Thank you. Thank you, Colette.
:06:52. > :06:55.Well, there have been seriously a mixed messages from the health
:06:56. > :07:02.chiefs as to whether the families were told. Here is what Belfast
:07:03. > :07:08.Health Trust Chief Executive, Colm Donaghy, told Spotlight in an
:07:09. > :07:13.interview recorded on Monday. Have you informed the families who
:07:14. > :07:19.are involved here that waiting times played a part in these incidents? I
:07:20. > :07:25.am not aware of the detail of both, but I know one of the families, it
:07:26. > :07:29.was the subject of analysis and the family has been involved. The other
:07:30. > :07:33.family, I'm not sure, but it would be a part of our policy now that we
:07:34. > :07:36.would inform families of the reasons. You would expect that a
:07:37. > :07:41.family would want to know? Absolutely. If the system played
:07:42. > :07:47.some kind of part in their loved one's death? Yes. Will you be
:07:48. > :07:54.looking into informing the other family? If they haven't been
:07:55. > :07:58.informed, of course, yes. Well, what we can tell you is that
:07:59. > :08:04.three families were not informed. We know that. Your hospital knew. Your
:08:05. > :08:09.hospital collated the information. Your hospital wrote it in the forms
:08:10. > :08:12.and your hospital did not tell the families, the loved ones of the
:08:13. > :08:19.people that were under your care. Some of the families were told. Some
:08:20. > :08:23.were not. I wonder if you find that acceptable? We did ask for a
:08:24. > :08:26.representative from the Belfast Trust, from the Royal Victoria
:08:27. > :08:30.Hospital to come into the stewed yo he tonight, there is packed audience
:08:31. > :08:37.here, people need to trust your hospital and the interview was
:08:38. > :08:42.pulled just a few hours ago. Very interesting indeed. Let's speak to
:08:43. > :08:47.Declan Lawn who was the reporter on the Spotlight programme. Tell me
:08:48. > :08:51.about today's developments, Declan? Today's developments, Stephen, are
:08:52. > :08:58.very significant. I was contacted this afternoon by several members of
:08:59. > :09:02.this family, Colette, one of them and they believed one of the cases
:09:03. > :09:05.we had evidence for was their mum. This is the evidence I have shown
:09:06. > :09:10.Colm Donaghy and to the health board and the reason I think this is
:09:11. > :09:15.significant is because it puts a real human prospective on what up
:09:16. > :09:20.until now has been a statistic. The family revealed details to me today.
:09:21. > :09:24.Some of which we knew. Some of which we didn't. I spoke to three sisters,
:09:25. > :09:28.all of them gave us statements. Now, at this point we don't want to name
:09:29. > :09:32.their mother because of privacy, but we know her name, but we can tell
:09:33. > :09:35.you some things about her. She was 80 years old and she was in
:09:36. > :09:41.relatively good health for her age. She was fit and active. Now, that's
:09:42. > :09:45.important, because Tony Stevens suggested that some, maybe the
:09:46. > :09:49.majority of these people were infirm, had seriously complex
:09:50. > :09:54.illnesses, may not have lived anyway. That wasn't the case with
:09:55. > :09:57.this lady. She liked driving around the country to see her eight
:09:58. > :10:02.children and her many grandchildren. She was out and about. So when she
:10:03. > :10:08.fell and hurt her head, she went into the emergency department and
:10:09. > :10:12.something went seriously wrong. The family are also distressed I should
:10:13. > :10:16.point out about how this is being treated by the truth and -- trust
:10:17. > :10:25.and the board and the minister and the public statements coming out.
:10:26. > :10:29.Let me read you a couple of extracts. "Today, I have listened to
:10:30. > :10:33.Mr Poots who said the deaths aren't a crisis. But for my faumly, this is
:10:34. > :10:41.very much a crisis and for us to think this may have been preventible
:10:42. > :10:50.is heart-rendering." One more. "OK, on the scale of things, this is a
:10:51. > :10:54.small number. We know they were someone's relatives and an important
:10:55. > :10:59.person in my life who I miss terribly." Let's see if we know
:11:00. > :11:04.Declan anymore today about what happened to this lady and put it
:11:05. > :11:08.into the public domain? We can reveal some word about what happened
:11:09. > :11:12.to her. She was assessed at the triage stage and she was assessed
:11:13. > :11:22.wrongly because they missed the fact she was on a blood thinning drug
:11:23. > :11:25.called warfarin. But what is important here and what tells us
:11:26. > :11:29.something about the system is there were later delays that seemed to be
:11:30. > :11:33.because the department was busy. There was a big gap between when one
:11:34. > :11:37.doctor ordered a scan and the scan was actually done. There was a gap
:11:38. > :11:41.when they decided they had to put a reversal drug in to stop the
:11:42. > :11:44.bleeding. It took 45 minutes for that drug to be found and
:11:45. > :11:48.administered to her. All three sisters told me that when two of
:11:49. > :11:53.them were there and they said the ward was very busy. Noticeably busy,
:11:54. > :11:56.it felt under pressure. It is not just clinical errors here. Some of
:11:57. > :12:01.the delays appear to have been caused because the ward was under
:12:02. > :12:05.pressure. And the trust says there is a combination of factors, yes,
:12:06. > :12:09.but the crucial thing is that some of these delays happened because the
:12:10. > :12:12.ward was under too much pressure it would appear. The system had a part
:12:13. > :12:17.to play here. Now, there is one other thing that I would like to
:12:18. > :12:22.point out. I can't say exactly when this death happened, but I do know
:12:23. > :12:25.the exact date, but I can tell you it was late last year. The family
:12:26. > :12:30.say they have been told that a similar death occurred a few days
:12:31. > :12:39.previously. Now, late last year is important because by last summer the
:12:40. > :12:42.College of Emergency Medicine declared the department
:12:43. > :12:47.unsustainable. Our Health Minister, by the way who also isn't in the
:12:48. > :12:54.studio tonight, that's the DUP Health Minister, he denies there is
:12:55. > :12:58.a crisis. Here is what he told the Assembly Health Committee? I accept
:12:59. > :13:03.that the treatment and care those five people have may well have
:13:04. > :13:06.fallen short and therefore, we will have an appropriate investigation of
:13:07. > :13:12.that matter. Five people dying in hospital of 80,000 being treated is
:13:13. > :13:18.not a crisis. Right, well, I will tell you what
:13:19. > :13:22.minister, if you are not here, I will ask you the questions. You have
:13:23. > :13:27.got the Chief Executive of the Belfast Trust, Colm Donaghy, telling
:13:28. > :13:32.Spotlight that he thought there were about four of these incidents and he
:13:33. > :13:37.said over a couple of years. No, five over a year. Now, we establish
:13:38. > :13:41.that and you didn't know that. What on earth does that say about the
:13:42. > :13:45.Royal Victoria Hospital? You don't know how many people were dying in
:13:46. > :13:51.those circumstances and you thought it was four over two years? And it
:13:52. > :13:56.is five over one. And then you don't bother to tell three of the
:13:57. > :14:04.families. You collate it. You report it. And if someone is going to pull
:14:05. > :14:08.an interview on this show around about 5pm tonight so the public know
:14:09. > :14:14.what the Belfast Trust did, the Director of Medical Services, Tony
:14:15. > :14:17.Stevens, was supposed to be sitting here reassuring people about the
:14:18. > :14:20.Royal Victoria Hospital, if you are going to pull that interview,
:14:21. > :14:23.whoever pulled it five hours before this programme goes on air, I'm
:14:24. > :14:26.continuing to ask the questions. Here is the question, we know you
:14:27. > :14:30.didn't tell three families last year, what about the year before and
:14:31. > :14:33.what about the year before that and we will be putting those questions
:14:34. > :14:38.in to your hospital because this is now an issue of public confidence.
:14:39. > :14:41.If you don't want to front up here, I will continue to ask those
:14:42. > :14:48.questions. We will go into this audience. There is a lady here in
:14:49. > :14:53.the blond hair. Go ahead. My son was born with a rare liver disease and
:14:54. > :14:56.he was treated initially at the Royal Victoria Hospital, I have got
:14:57. > :15:01.to say they saved his life, you know, without them, he wouldn't be
:15:02. > :15:05.here, but after the operation we were, it was like a revolving door
:15:06. > :15:10.up at the A for us. We were told things to watch out for, life
:15:11. > :15:14.threatening bleeds that he can just bleed out like that and they still
:15:15. > :15:18.left us sitting there for two and three hours, sometimes four and five
:15:19. > :15:24.hours. When you had presented at the A? When we presented... We had
:15:25. > :15:30.been triaged and sent back out and told to take his clothes off, give
:15:31. > :15:36.him Calpol, he can't take Calpol, he has a liver disease. So we were
:15:37. > :15:44.still sat there sometimes two, three, four hours later. Well, let's
:15:45. > :15:52.speak to the chair of the Committee for Sinn Fein. What's your reaction
:15:53. > :15:57.to this, Maeve? I think it is quite shocking. I think people like
:15:58. > :16:00.Colette and her family are very brave obviously going through their
:16:01. > :16:03.own grief, but a sense of being in a very kind of public discussion
:16:04. > :16:09.around this. They are extremely brave. What is particularly shocking
:16:10. > :16:13.as well has been, you know, this evolving information. The fact we
:16:14. > :16:19.are told initially that this may only be two people and now, it is
:16:20. > :16:29.five deaths that are allegedly attributed to delays. Well, delays
:16:30. > :16:32.were contributing factor and in the deaths, there may very well have
:16:33. > :16:39.been other factors? You are right. We heard from Colette about her
:16:40. > :16:43.mother's capability and well-being and being fit and active, but what
:16:44. > :16:47.is of real concern is the fact we have a number of families who
:16:48. > :16:50.haven't been informed that there may have been a serious adverse
:16:51. > :16:56.incidents that affected the death of their loved one. This morning, the
:16:57. > :17:01.Belfast Trust in a statement told the Nolan Radio Show that the
:17:02. > :17:06.families are being contacted. Now, have they been contacted up to now?
:17:07. > :17:09.How does that hospital not contact the families first? They tell the
:17:10. > :17:14.management team and not the son, the daughter, the mum, the dad of the
:17:15. > :17:18.person that is affected? Well, absolutely and all of that, all of
:17:19. > :17:23.that points us in the direction of a crisis in our emergency care. And I
:17:24. > :17:27.would suggest further than emergency care, I think we need to be looking
:17:28. > :17:31.at the whole system here. The system has certainly failed Colette and has
:17:32. > :17:37.failed those other families and we heard a doctor this evening being
:17:38. > :17:41.very clear on the fact that what he spent most of his time doing when he
:17:42. > :17:45.was in post here, was managing a crisis situation as opposed to
:17:46. > :17:49.managing patients. This is something that's not new. Let's just hear from
:17:50. > :17:54.that doctor. I think we can hear what he actually said. On many a
:17:55. > :17:58.night shift, or weekend shift that I worked in that department I did not
:17:59. > :18:06.give a standard of care that I felt was appropriate to patients because
:18:07. > :18:11.our sole focus was just managing the chaos. The cases that are being
:18:12. > :18:15.referred to, I think must only represent the tip of the iceberg.
:18:16. > :18:19.Let me just come up to this gentleman here. Go ahead. I have
:18:20. > :18:24.worked for years in the Health Service as a medical photographer, I
:18:25. > :18:29.have the unique position of going through these departments. I feel
:18:30. > :18:33.whenever the Belfast City Hospital closed the A, the pressure that
:18:34. > :18:39.put on the Royal Victoria Hospital and the Ulster Hospital... Was that
:18:40. > :18:42.the temporary closure? But, it is still going on as we know and the
:18:43. > :18:45.movement of other services over to the Royal site, it put a lot of
:18:46. > :18:49.pressure on the staff that are over there. I do know that the staff that
:18:50. > :18:53.work in the Royal Victoria Hospital are great people. They have, I have
:18:54. > :18:57.worked with them for many years and I have seen how good they are, but
:18:58. > :18:59.the pressures are so vast on these people. It is inevitable mistakes
:19:00. > :19:04.will be made. I know some of you have been
:19:05. > :19:09.contacting me today and saying Stephen, don't put too much pressure
:19:10. > :19:14.on the staff. It was the staff who contacted Declan, contacted the
:19:15. > :19:17.Spotlight team. This is a team of dedicated staff who are trying to
:19:18. > :19:21.bring some information into the public domain because they are
:19:22. > :19:24.saying the system can't cope. The last people who should be blamed
:19:25. > :19:28.here are the staff as you pointed out, all of the information that was
:19:29. > :19:33.given to us, leaked to us, last night, was given to us by medical
:19:34. > :19:36.and nursing people. They are the people who are concerned about what
:19:37. > :19:40.is going on and they are the people who are demanding an urgent
:19:41. > :19:47.transformation. The young man here. I just think that the Trust need to
:19:48. > :19:53.realise the people of Northern Ireland are using A for the wrong
:19:54. > :19:56.cases. They are taking up valuable time which should be going to
:19:57. > :20:05.families that need the beds at the time.
:20:06. > :20:08.We are joined by John Kelly. What are your thoughts here tonight? We
:20:09. > :20:12.don't want to damn the National Health Service as we are saying, but
:20:13. > :20:18.there is something that has got to be wrong, John, when families are
:20:19. > :20:23.not told. They are not, never mind what is happening, they are not even
:20:24. > :20:29.told. Well, I have been listening in and heard some of the stories here
:20:30. > :20:35.and I don't think you can be moved by the distress that has been caused
:20:36. > :20:41.and I have a lot of sympathy for the people that have been involved here.
:20:42. > :20:46.I think as a health professional, it is very important that we are open
:20:47. > :20:50.and honest with our patients. I have been a General Practitioner for over
:20:51. > :20:55.25 years and I have always found that even when you get things wrong,
:20:56. > :21:03.you must explain it to the patient and they can be very, very
:21:04. > :21:08.understanding. The problem cannot be dealt with in isolation. I think we
:21:09. > :21:17.need to look at how we manage the demand on our NHS services. There is
:21:18. > :21:23.a small amount of money. Chucking money for quick solutions does not
:21:24. > :21:27.work. We need to look at accident and emergency together with the
:21:28. > :22:01.Ambulance Service, GP out-of-hours service...
:22:02. > :22:05.they have fallen by 2% in the last five years. The number of emergency
:22:06. > :22:10.admissions in Northern Ireland is less than in the other three
:22:11. > :22:14.countries. I am also looking at the waiting time stats, all right,
:22:15. > :22:17.that's been delivered to us, the patients in Northern Ireland. Let's
:22:18. > :22:19.compare it to England because between October and December in
:22:20. > :22:25.England there were a four hour target and that target was hit 93.5%
:22:26. > :22:36.of the time in England. What do we get here delivered to us in Northern
:22:37. > :22:41.Ireland? 77.5%, dropping to 72.5%. In December, 62% were seen in four
:22:42. > :22:50.hours. There is the comparison with England and this is in the Royal
:22:51. > :22:58.Victoria Hospital. It is interesting stuff. Maeve, what are you going to
:22:59. > :23:03.do about it? Let's not forget when the Health Minister was in charge,
:23:04. > :23:09.similar problems in A It was over ten years ago, but let's not forget
:23:10. > :23:14.it? The framework in which we are now working under transforming your
:23:15. > :23:20.care is a different context. The framework in which Barbara due brun
:23:21. > :23:24.was an outcome based framework, but let me say this, I am not the
:23:25. > :23:29.medical professional here, but there have been recommendations that have
:23:30. > :23:33.been put forward and the College of Emergency Medicine, t report which
:23:34. > :23:38.is almost a year old next month, made five recommendations around
:23:39. > :23:41.what that young man in the audience said, the fact that our A are
:23:42. > :23:45.turning into anything and everything. What do we need to do in
:23:46. > :23:50.terms of alternatives to A? What do we need to do in relation to GP
:23:51. > :23:53.out of hour systems? Do we need to look at employment contracts? We
:23:54. > :23:57.need to stop closing beds and start to staffing up. There needs to be
:23:58. > :24:01.more staff in the system as well to be able to manage. Tony Stevens told
:24:02. > :24:06.me yesterday on the radio that it is really difficult to find the staff.
:24:07. > :24:09.We simply don't have them. Now, they are recruiting another five now,
:24:10. > :24:15.consultants, but it is difficult to fin the staff Well, my point... For
:24:16. > :24:21.A We have been told there was a recruitment and retention issue. Yet
:24:22. > :24:25.on Monday, when the minister made a statement, he stated we are now
:24:26. > :24:31.recruiting quickly. Now, my question to him straight back to Mr Poots,
:24:32. > :24:37.how come you can do it now and you couldn't do it some months ago? This
:24:38. > :24:40.is in the system 18 months, flagged up by professionals, community,
:24:41. > :24:49.patients and others. Thank you. Angela is on the line.
:24:50. > :24:53.What would you like to say? I was in the hospital myself. I went through
:24:54. > :24:59.an operation with a gall bladder to get it out. I was rushed back in
:25:00. > :25:02.after it into the Royal. I sat in a wheelchair for near six to seven
:25:03. > :25:07.hours and there was people beside me in trolleys, taking heart attacks.
:25:08. > :25:12.How long ago? It was about three weeks ago. Three weeks ago? Yes. You
:25:13. > :25:17.sat in accident and emergency for how long? I was in for six to seven
:25:18. > :25:21.hours on a wheelchair. What was it like around you? Describe the scene?
:25:22. > :25:26.It was like a slaughterhouse and that's the only way I can explain it
:25:27. > :25:30.to you. There were people bleeding and people taking drugs in the place
:25:31. > :25:35.and I had to inform one of the nurses about it. There was people,
:25:36. > :25:38.an old man started being sick and taking a heart attack and we had to
:25:39. > :25:41.shout for a nurse, they were standing doing their paperwork,
:25:42. > :25:49.doctors were standing at the station doing their paperwork and not one of
:25:50. > :25:54.them cared. That could not be true. The doctors and the nurses, you see,
:25:55. > :25:59.if they didn't care, they wouldn't be in that job, the level of
:26:00. > :26:04.intelligence and dedication that a doctor or nurse needs. I bet you
:26:05. > :26:09.they cared and I bet you it was the system creeking around them. Thank
:26:10. > :26:15.you for your call. I am wondering how long it is going to take to
:26:16. > :26:19.resolve the A issue. Well, the minister tells us there is no
:26:20. > :26:24.crisis. Well, five people died already. How many more? Are you
:26:25. > :26:28.worried? I am, yeah. I want to give you, again, I am not doing this
:26:29. > :26:30.because I have to, but because I want to, hundreds of thousands of
:26:31. > :26:35.people have been through that hospital. 700,000 going through that
:26:36. > :26:42.A, doing a fantastic job for people. These are relatively small
:26:43. > :26:45.numbers, OK. But it is not a small number if it is your mum or it is
:26:46. > :26:50.your dad and that's the issue here. The guy in the front row. My mother
:26:51. > :26:56.has been in and out with heart problems... Say that again. My
:26:57. > :27:01.mother has been in and out of the Mater with heart problems and the
:27:02. > :27:07.other week my mother took chest pains and she had to beg the
:27:08. > :27:12.ambulance men to take her to the Mater because of problems she in the
:27:13. > :27:16.Royal before. She got stents fitted and she was sent home and the
:27:17. > :27:21.consultant phoned her and said, "Why are you in the house?" They had to
:27:22. > :27:26.send an ambulance to get her again. I have no confidence in the Royal
:27:27. > :27:30.Victoria Hospital. The doctors do an amazing job in every hospital I have
:27:31. > :27:36.been in, but it is just the system. They are closing down all the A
:27:37. > :27:42.like the White Abbey, the City Hospital, and they are putting all
:27:43. > :27:46.this pressure on the main two A Have confidence in the doctors. Have
:27:47. > :27:50.confidence in the nurses at the Royal. Fantastic people who came to
:27:51. > :27:54.him because they wanted the system to be better for you. So don't under
:27:55. > :27:59.estimate that. Where that management team is tonight, what they think
:28:00. > :28:04.they are doing, not sitting in here reassuring you, I'm doing that and
:28:05. > :28:09.they are sitting at home. I'm not saying anything wrong about the
:28:10. > :28:15.doctors and the consultants. Gemma Smith is from the Royal College of
:28:16. > :28:18.Nurses. You are joining us from London. Good evening. Good evening.
:28:19. > :28:21.We have got a situation in Northern Ireland where again, we have got to
:28:22. > :28:27.balance this. The fantastic work that the NHS is doing and yet here
:28:28. > :28:32.we have a situation. Let me get your reaction. Can you believe that one
:28:33. > :28:36.of our major hospitals is not actually telling families when there
:28:37. > :28:40.has been an adverse incident which may have contributed to their loved
:28:41. > :28:43.one's death? It is written down and the Chief Executive knows and the
:28:44. > :28:48.doctor knows and the family doesn't. Can you believe they're doing that?
:28:49. > :28:52.No. I think that's totally unacceptable and very, very
:28:53. > :28:56.unfortunate, indeed. I think that the nurses that are working in in
:28:57. > :28:59.that service, this will be another thing that will cause them stress
:29:00. > :29:03.and anxiety. How much pressure is there within
:29:04. > :29:08.the hospital? Well, I think that's well documented now. I think that
:29:09. > :29:12.people, the regulation quality improvement authority have been in
:29:13. > :29:15.there. They have done the review. And our understanding is they have
:29:16. > :29:19.found exactly the issues that we have found that nurses have been
:29:20. > :29:22.raising with us and that we have been raising with the Trust. I think
:29:23. > :29:27.that we have come to a point now... How long have you been raising this
:29:28. > :29:31.with the Trust? For at least, well certainly this episode when the
:29:32. > :29:35.pressure started to build was from November last year, but it is fair
:29:36. > :29:40.to say that for 18 months, there has been pressure in the emergency
:29:41. > :29:43.departments of the Belfast Trust and indeed, other trusts in Northern
:29:44. > :29:48.Ireland. Mr Poots says there is no crisis. What do you say back to him?
:29:49. > :29:54.Well, I hope there is not a crisis, but I think this is a turning point
:29:55. > :29:58.and nurses are hopeful that this is a turning point. That people have
:29:59. > :30:03.heard their voice. That we know we have got a problem, but we need to
:30:04. > :30:08.identify exactly how to fix it and not start jumping to solutions
:30:09. > :30:13.because we do not believe that just simply more doctors and morse nurses
:30:14. > :30:17.are going to fix this. Janice, thank you very much indeed. I want to
:30:18. > :30:24.thank you if you have been e-mailing me and phoning me on the radio show.
:30:25. > :30:28.I am enning this segment of the show, saying thank you to the
:30:29. > :30:34.doctors and to the nurses and indeed, to the managers in Northern
:30:35. > :30:38.Ireland who do work tirelessly for the NHS, but there are questions to
:30:39. > :30:41.answer and we are going to continue to ask them whether they are here or
:30:42. > :30:49.not. OK, ladies and gentlemen, give our guests a round of applause.
:30:50. > :30:51.Thank you, Declan. APPLAUSE
:30:52. > :30:55.Right, loads to talk about. We should tell you how you can do so.
:30:56. > :30:56.Of you will see the numbers coming oupen the screen right now. There
:30:57. > :31:10.they are: If you are tweeting us, it is:
:31:11. > :31:13.When I go home tonight, I will be answering your tweets, reading your
:31:14. > :31:19.tweets for a couple of hours after the programme:
:31:20. > :31:24.Or you can text us: Still to come:
:31:25. > :31:29.The DUP says benefits could be stopped by 2016. We will find out
:31:30. > :31:37.whether that's spin or fact later on. Now, my next guest's first big
:31:38. > :31:42.gig was in front of an audience of 8.5 million people and what a talent
:31:43. > :31:53.she is. # I'm sorry, I'm a little late
:31:54. > :31:58.# I got your message # That was really, really, really
:31:59. > :32:04.something. Your voice is incredible. It is unique and I know exactly what
:32:05. > :32:14.to do with a voice like yours. What can I give you? I got perfume. Look.
:32:15. > :32:17.This is awesome. I have got spectacles, you know, you want to
:32:18. > :32:22.get reading, you get sexy and you get your spectacles on. You are too
:32:23. > :32:29.bright. You are too bright. I can't stand it. You are a superstar. You
:32:30. > :32:33.will need these! APPLAUSE
:32:34. > :32:36.Can Northern Ireland win The Voice? Ladies and gentlemen, it is our
:32:37. > :32:38.pleasure to have her singing live in this studio tonight. Please welcome,
:32:39. > :32:55.Jai McConnell. # What you drinking?
:32:56. > :33:02.# Rum or whisky? # Now, won't you have a double with
:33:03. > :33:10.me? # I'm sorry I'm a little late
:33:11. > :33:20.# I got your message by the way # I'm calling you today
:33:21. > :33:27.# So let's go out for old time's sake
:33:28. > :33:31.# Let's say we never meet # With my sweet joy always remember
:33:32. > :33:36.me # We were mischievous
:33:37. > :33:43.# And you were always wearing black # I was so sweet as you know my
:33:44. > :33:51.boyfriend's mother # I'm sorry I'm a little the late
:33:52. > :33:57.# I know stripes on a tiger or hard to change
:33:58. > :34:00.# So let's go out for old time's sake
:34:01. > :34:11.# I will never forget you # They say we never make it
:34:12. > :34:18.# My sweet joys always remember me # I'll never forget you
:34:19. > :34:25.# There are times we couldn't shake it
:34:26. > :34:31.# You're my joy, always remember me # We just got swallowed up
:34:32. > :34:37.# You know that I never forget you # We just got swallowed up
:34:38. > :34:40.# You know that I'll never forget you
:34:41. > :34:44.# We just got swallowed up # You know that I'll never forget
:34:45. > :34:56.you # We just got swallowed up
:34:57. > :35:05.# What you thinking? Did you miss me
:35:06. > :35:07.# I borrowed your boots # Now, won't you let me give them
:35:08. > :35:14.back to you # I'll never forget you
:35:15. > :35:23.# They say we never make it # My sweet joys always remember me
:35:24. > :35:28.# I'll never forget you # Although at times we couldn't
:35:29. > :35:36.shake it. # You're my joy
:35:37. > :35:43.# Don't you know that you are my joy # Always remember me
:35:44. > :35:47.# Don't you know that you are my joy, always remember me #
:35:48. > :36:00.CHEERING AND APPLAUSE Hello there.
:36:01. > :36:03.APPLAUSE Brilliant. How exciting is this? Can
:36:04. > :36:07.you believe that you are in The Voice and you are doing so well and
:36:08. > :36:09.what's ahead of you? It is terrifying.
:36:10. > :36:14.LAUGHTER Are you really nervous? It doesn't
:36:15. > :36:21.come across at all? I'm screaming inside. Are you? Honestly? A little
:36:22. > :36:25.bit, yeah. Tell everybody how old you are? I'm 24. What's your dream?
:36:26. > :36:30.My dream is to make amazing music and to learn as much as I can along
:36:31. > :36:35.this experience and to just build up a good reputation for myself and be
:36:36. > :36:40.taken seriously for what I want to do. When that chair spun around,
:36:41. > :36:46.from that moment, how much has life changed? Amazingly. It is just been
:36:47. > :36:51.insane. Overwhelming more than anything, but it is great as well.
:36:52. > :36:58.I'm loving the work. The attention is a bit scary. I'll work hard at
:36:59. > :37:01.it. What about Kylie? I wonder what the judges and coaches are really
:37:02. > :37:07.like. Tell us about Kylie? Kylie is amazing. She is so tiny. She doesn't
:37:08. > :37:16.stop moving, but she is great. She is a lovely woman. Are you allowing
:37:17. > :37:17.yourself to dream of what could be ahead? Some people will be slightly
:37:18. > :37:27.frightened about contestants thinking this is it and you can go
:37:28. > :37:32.from there to kapoot or you can keep going up? My advice is not to think
:37:33. > :37:36.too far ahead or think back, what if? You need to concentrate on what
:37:37. > :37:40.you are doing more than anything because that's where you can slip up
:37:41. > :37:43.if you over think anything. I often say on this programme that we find
:37:44. > :37:46.it really easy to talk about what's wrong in Northern Ireland and you
:37:47. > :37:50.know, you are singing throughout the UK now, that's what you are doing.
:37:51. > :37:55.You are in a big competition, you are making it, we are all really
:37:56. > :38:00.proud of you, and we want you to do so, so well, thank you very much for
:38:01. > :38:05.singing in this studio. Give her a round of applause, ladies and
:38:06. > :38:15.gentlemen. APPLAUSE
:38:16. > :38:20.Right. Good stuff. Now, we will move on. Nearly 700,000 people in the UK
:38:21. > :38:27.have been diagnosed with dementia. Last year, the G8 leaders set a
:38:28. > :38:30.target of 2025 to find a cure for the condition. Away from the
:38:31. > :38:40.headlines, there are countless stories of devastating stories. One
:38:41. > :38:45.of the people who have written a story about the illness is Sally
:38:46. > :38:52.Magnusson. Hello Sally. Hello there. Good to see you. Hi. Well, I was
:38:53. > :38:57.saying to you before we came on air that it is an illness and a disease
:38:58. > :39:02.that I fear, I have a fear of it happening to anyone I know or I
:39:03. > :39:07.love. And it happened to your mum? It did and it is understandable that
:39:08. > :39:13.people fear it. It is a horrific disease. There is no way of getting
:39:14. > :39:19.around that. It was a shock that somebody as lively and vibrant and
:39:20. > :39:27.alive as my mother was, she was always very vital, she was a great
:39:28. > :39:30.writer, a very sort of feisty, tomboyish character and anybody less
:39:31. > :39:37.likely you would have thought to fall prey to this disease. It was
:39:38. > :39:42.hard to think of and when you know, our family realised that it was
:39:43. > :39:46.happening to her, it was hard to take on board, but I've learnt such
:39:47. > :39:51.a lot through this, through this journey which is partly why I wrote
:39:52. > :40:00.the book and it is not completely to be feared because there are all
:40:01. > :40:06.sorts of positive things about the journey through dementia that I
:40:07. > :40:11.think don't get publicised very much. These are individuals with
:40:12. > :40:17.continuing flashes of personality in all sorts of interesting ways if
:40:18. > :40:22.that can only be nurtured. One of the first signs that maybe something
:40:23. > :40:27.was wrong was actually in its own way slightly funny. YAz. What
:40:28. > :40:35.happened? Mother was always funny I must say. She was a tremendous show
:40:36. > :40:39.off and she was always getting into scrapes and getting stuck in
:40:40. > :40:44.automatic toilets and all sorts of things and it was no surprise when
:40:45. > :40:50.one night when I and my young daughter and her had gone to the
:40:51. > :40:57.island of mull, we were going to track down our ancestors and we were
:40:58. > :41:01.in a guesthouse and I noticed a lack of cure osity about my mother
:41:02. > :41:04.because she was always alert and interested and she hadn't been as
:41:05. > :41:08.interested in the detail of this trip that I expected, but fine,
:41:09. > :41:14.everything else was normal. We went to bed in this strange guesthouse
:41:15. > :41:21.and she was in the room upstairs and I was downstairs with my daughter in
:41:22. > :41:23.another bedroom. I was lying in bedroom reading and about midnight
:41:24. > :41:31.there was a knock on the door and there was my mother standing there
:41:32. > :41:37.with her pyjama top on and no pyjama bottoms, but fortunately a pair of
:41:38. > :41:45.knickers. I was delighted to see. I said, "Mum, what are you doing?" She
:41:46. > :41:51.said, "I was going to the toilet and locked myself out of my room." Fine.
:41:52. > :41:56.I laughed too. It was only when I said, "Mum, where are your pyjama
:41:57. > :42:02.trousers? You could have met anybody walking along the corridor? " She
:42:03. > :42:06.gave me a blank look. I found it very hard at the time and I find it
:42:07. > :42:14.hard still to express what I felt at that time. It was just a slight kind
:42:15. > :42:19.of alarm bellish twang of disquiet and there was also something about
:42:20. > :42:24.the look in her eye which became very familiar, a sort of blankness
:42:25. > :42:29.and then it was gone. And when was the moment when you realised there
:42:30. > :42:34.was something definitely wrong? I'm not sure these things come as
:42:35. > :42:38.concrete moments. It is a very gradual thing and you are just, you
:42:39. > :42:43.know, it is hard to look back over the years and think that was the
:42:44. > :42:50.moment. Just more and more, she began to go off the boil. She began
:42:51. > :42:56.to have, she would be less and less able to initiate actions of her own.
:42:57. > :43:00.Her story telling began to wander. She stopped writing. I know she was
:43:01. > :43:05.speaking at a funeral and she kept reading the same page? I know, that
:43:06. > :43:15.was such a shame. And you were there. I know. Presumably you want
:43:16. > :43:19.to step in and help her? There is a difficult balance you want to strike
:43:20. > :43:25.between allowing the person to be independent and have a sense of
:43:26. > :43:29.normality and achievement and at the same time protect them in a sense
:43:30. > :43:35.from not just from physical harm, but from themselves and she had been
:43:36. > :43:40.asked to speak at the funeral of an old friend and she was very keen to
:43:41. > :43:47.do it and my sister and I wrote up something for her to say and I took
:43:48. > :43:51.her there and she went up there and I tell you, it was just like, to
:43:52. > :43:55.start with, it was like waiting for my first-born at the age of three to
:43:56. > :44:00.come on to the school nursery nativity, I was so nervous for her
:44:01. > :44:03.and she went up there and then I relaxed, I thought great, she is
:44:04. > :44:08.reading the words well of. She is doing it with a great aplomb and she
:44:09. > :44:13.got to page three in her notes. She got to the end and then she turned
:44:14. > :44:18.over and she started on page one again. She didn't realise... Her
:44:19. > :44:23.memory. That short-term memory that tells you that you have just done
:44:24. > :44:28.something had gone and with great, you know, great presence she started
:44:29. > :44:33.on it again. And then you have got that dilemma, do you go up and take
:44:34. > :44:38.her off the stage? I don't find the right moment to do it. She is bound
:44:39. > :44:42.to stop now. I will do it in a minute and she never did and the
:44:43. > :44:48.minister helped her off. I heard other people tell me a similar story
:44:49. > :44:53.of how when their mum or dad stopped recognising them. That's tough. This
:44:54. > :44:59.pillar in your life. I am so, my dad is dead now, my mum is still alive,
:45:00. > :45:07.I am so close to her, I love her dearly, I can't imagine life without
:45:08. > :45:14.her. I think, and I don't mean this in an offensive way, I think I would
:45:15. > :45:21.rather not have my mum than have my mum and her not know who I was. Does
:45:22. > :45:25.that make sense? I understand it, but what I would say to you, the
:45:26. > :45:34.best thing I ever, ever did was to look after my mum and to be there
:45:35. > :45:40.for her as she went along this long and difficult path and to discover
:45:41. > :45:47.in the looking after her that I had got to the nub of what love is about
:45:48. > :45:52.because love, you know, is, and you love your mother and you would find
:45:53. > :45:57.this, it is about the giving out and the shoring up, even when your heart
:45:58. > :46:01.is breaking, are... Even when they are Sally, who are you? Yes. When
:46:02. > :46:07.you embraced your mum and she said, " Who are you?" Yes.
:46:08. > :46:12.You visited your mum on Christmas Eve and she didn't know who you
:46:13. > :46:16.were? I was dressed up too much. I had a short skirt on. I had too much
:46:17. > :46:21.make-up. I was full of Christmas spirit and I pranced into the room
:46:22. > :46:25.and this was very, ne near the end of this long journey and she was
:46:26. > :46:31.very agitated and distressed at that point and she looked at me, she
:46:32. > :46:38.didn't have a clue who I was. There was hostility in her highs which was
:46:39. > :46:45.-- hereyes which was the hardest thing to take. And I went a way that
:46:46. > :46:49.Christmas Eve night thinking, my heart is going to break. That would
:46:50. > :46:54.hurt. But I went back and I looked up an old letter of her's because I
:46:55. > :47:05.wanted to see what her heart was really like. I looked up an old
:47:06. > :47:11.letter which started, "My dearest, Sal. How wonderful you have been to
:47:12. > :47:14.me all those years." I felt that's what I feel about my children right
:47:15. > :47:19.now. This is me, right now, this is me, this is what I feel about them,
:47:20. > :47:24.this is how much I love them. This is the essence of me, this is not
:47:25. > :47:30.going to change and I suddenly thought, that's the same with my
:47:31. > :47:33.mother. That's her essence. Her essence just like the essence of
:47:34. > :47:39.your mother is the woman who loves you in her deepest core and even if
:47:40. > :47:45.a disease attacks her brain, that is her and it is injure job as a son to
:47:46. > :47:50.nurture that and let that flourish as much as it can to the end. We can
:47:51. > :47:55.do that with people with dementia. We mustn't give up on them. In this
:47:56. > :48:00.amazing organ that is the brain, you saw flashes in your mum of the mum
:48:01. > :48:07.who you had always known with music. She had always been a singer and
:48:08. > :48:10.then whatever way the brain works, even when she was deteriorating,
:48:11. > :48:18.when she sang, she was herself? She was. Isn't that amazing? It is
:48:19. > :48:23.amazing and completely common. It is not just because she enjoyed songs.
:48:24. > :48:28.After she died I went to investigate this, this phenomenon and discovered
:48:29. > :48:32.that in fact there is a neurological affect of familiar music on the
:48:33. > :48:39.brain, it gets all sorts of neuro networks going and it can bring back
:48:40. > :48:44.identity. Not as a cure, not forever, but for periods at a time.
:48:45. > :48:51.If I get it, I will do people's heads in, I will be singing Bett
:48:52. > :48:58.Middler. Give us your play list. We are trying to collect play lists.
:48:59. > :49:02.Five of your top pieces of music and send it to our website and what we
:49:03. > :49:09.are doing through that is trying to tell anybody who has a loved one
:49:10. > :49:15.with dementia, get it on an iPod and offer it to them any time of the day
:49:16. > :49:18.or night and help ground them in these familiar chords and songs and
:49:19. > :49:22.words of the past and you find that words will come back and identity
:49:23. > :49:27.will come back. I will tell you what, talking to me tonight, you
:49:28. > :49:34.have given me food for thought of how to approach someone with
:49:35. > :49:39.dementia and who knows who it it is going to touch in their lives? I
:49:40. > :49:44.want all health professionals to read this book and find out what it
:49:45. > :49:48.is like for people with dementia because too many decisions are made
:49:49. > :49:53.without people understanding that. Thank you very much, Sally. Of
:49:54. > :49:57.APPLAUSE Right, now, before we move on, let's
:49:58. > :50:02.remind you how you can get in touch with the programme of the thousands
:50:03. > :50:03.of you interact with the programme every Wednesday night. There is the
:50:04. > :50:12.number on your screen: You will see the next number coming
:50:13. > :50:23.up: There is a Twitter address:
:50:24. > :50:26.Right, now, this will be fiery. The computer could be switched off and
:50:27. > :50:34.your benefits stopped. That's what the DUP is saying could happen as
:50:35. > :50:40.early as 2016. Sammy Wilson from the DUP, your opponents would say this
:50:41. > :50:44.is a spin. It is waffle and there is no way that you should be scaring
:50:45. > :50:49.people that their benefits will be stopped? I'm not scaring them. What
:50:50. > :50:55.I'm saying is this a reality. If we do not have the new system of
:50:56. > :51:05.Universal Credit in place then the computers which currently administer
:51:06. > :51:08.Jobseeker's Allowance, tax credits, employment Income Support benefits
:51:09. > :51:15.will no longer be available because it will be turn off
:51:16. > :51:15.will no longer be available because You won't leave people in Northern
:51:16. > :51:20.Ireland without money, you won't do it? No, we won't do it, we will try
:51:21. > :51:23.and not do it, but one of the problems is we can't get the Welfare
:51:24. > :51:28.Reform legislation through the assembly. It is being blocked by
:51:29. > :51:31.Sinn Fein and as a result the countdown is going towards Universal
:51:32. > :51:37.Credit being introduced in the rest of the United Kingdom not introduced
:51:38. > :51:43.in Northern Ireland and we will have to purchase the computer system and
:51:44. > :51:46.the Central Government ware from the Department of -- and the software
:51:47. > :51:50.from the Department of Work and Pensions. That could cost us ?300
:51:51. > :51:55.million. And then we have to service it and we have to get the system
:51:56. > :51:59.which deals with housing ben if it's, tax credits, child tax
:52:00. > :52:02.credits, because it is not going to be used any longer in any other part
:52:03. > :52:06.of the United Kingdom. The other thing, of course, about this... We
:52:07. > :52:09.will come to the other thing in a second. It is a black and white
:52:10. > :52:18.issue. He is either telling us what is ahead of it or you lot are
:52:19. > :52:24.spoofing? What is happening? In October 2012, whenever the minister
:52:25. > :52:31.put the Bill into the Assembly for a debate we were told on that date
:52:32. > :52:35.that we would face ?100 million, 200 illion if the Bill wasn't passed
:52:36. > :52:43.then and there. Now, that's 2012, October. This is February 2014. So
:52:44. > :52:48.from 2012 to 2014... Is the computer being switched off in 2016 or not?
:52:49. > :52:55.Well, why would it be? Because it is not being used in the rest of the
:52:56. > :53:00.UK. All the parties around the Executive table, our job is to get
:53:01. > :53:03.the best benefit system for the people we represent. If you don't
:53:04. > :53:18.get it, are you denying that computer is being switched off? You
:53:19. > :53:24.have to have a reality check. We have a Welfare Reform Bill that's
:53:25. > :53:28.being brought in from London. We have got to make it a better Bill if
:53:29. > :53:32.we can do. What we have been arguing from the start as have all the other
:53:33. > :53:35.parties, including Sammy's, as have the churches and trade unions and
:53:36. > :53:41.many other people out in society, we are saying that this cuts coming
:53:42. > :53:46.from London has to be tackled because we are told this is about
:53:47. > :53:53.reform. In other words, you are rolling over? Alex, I warned in
:53:54. > :54:00.2014, let's do a reality check. This is 2014? Or 2013 if we did not have
:54:01. > :54:05.the system, the new system in place fines would start. We are paying ?5
:54:06. > :54:09.million a month to Westminster at present. No, you are not. Because we
:54:10. > :54:15.don't have the new system. You are not paying a penny. You are not. The
:54:16. > :54:24.fines have started in January. No. They haven't. This is like a
:54:25. > :54:29.pantomime. This is a reality. Just as you think. You haven't paid a
:54:30. > :54:31.penny? When you think all the computers are switched off in the
:54:32. > :54:35.rest of the United Kingdom because with he no longer have Jobseeker's
:54:36. > :54:42.Allowance. We no longer have Income Support, we no longer have working
:54:43. > :54:45.tax credits, do you think they will keep the system going because we in
:54:46. > :54:51.Northern Ireland decided to keep it? The other thing, of course, is
:54:52. > :54:57.this... Let him reply. This should not be a Punch and Judy Show. Who is
:54:58. > :55:04.Punch and who is Judy? Well, I will be Punch and whoever likes to be
:55:05. > :55:12.Judy. You are punch-drunk. I think that's your problem.
:55:13. > :55:17.LAUGHTER APPLAUSE
:55:18. > :55:25.Let's be very clear. Go on. The Executive has set aside ?5 million
:55:26. > :55:28.for a month for three months on the basis the Finance Minister is saying
:55:29. > :55:36.the London Government is going to fine us ?5 million. There hasn't
:55:37. > :55:41.been a penny paid over. They are taking ?5 million. They haven't got
:55:42. > :55:46.it. It is a fine. We can't spend it. It hasn't been spent yet and it
:55:47. > :55:51.hasn't been levied yet. The department will tell us and Sammy
:55:52. > :55:56.can verify this, the department told us when you implement this Bill
:55:57. > :56:01.unchanged it will take ?450 million per year out of the local economy.
:56:02. > :56:05.It will not. It will not. I am sorry. Maybe I get finishing a
:56:06. > :56:12.point, Stephen. Well, hurry up. Well, sorry. We have got four
:56:13. > :56:16.minutes. ?450 million will come out of the local budget. OK, that's out
:56:17. > :56:20.of people's pockets. We have a responsibility to do the best for
:56:21. > :56:24.the people we represent. What do you want? We have said and we made
:56:25. > :56:30.progress. There wouldn't have been any progress if we hadn't dug our
:56:31. > :56:34.heels in. What will push this deal through? First of all, we need to
:56:35. > :56:38.make sure that people who are on sickness for example, this is one
:56:39. > :56:45.example, people who are sick have to have a fit for purpose system which
:56:46. > :56:50.will assess them. That's for start off. Are you letting that through?
:56:51. > :57:01.If he knew what was already agreed, he would know that what we have said
:57:02. > :57:06.for people on PIPs or people turned down on their medical assessments,
:57:07. > :57:09.we have put aside ?6 million so they can get an independent doctor's
:57:10. > :57:16.report to help them in their appeal against a decision like that. So we
:57:17. > :57:19.have addressed that issue. So... We have agreed ?6 million and I wasn't
:57:20. > :57:22.going to quote that figure because that's a matter that the parties
:57:23. > :57:28.have been discussing in the Executive. I'm not on the Executive
:57:29. > :57:34.so I'm not supposed to know that. You know it now. We have agreed ?6
:57:35. > :57:41.million to pay for medical evidence for a flawed system because people
:57:42. > :57:49.are going through tribunals every day of the week and they are telling
:57:50. > :57:56.us the system is not working. What the A said is fundamentally flawed.
:57:57. > :57:59.Is this about, let me clear this up, some people would have whispered
:58:00. > :58:04.what this is about is Sinn Fein having an anti-cuts agenda in the
:58:05. > :58:09.south and you lot are afraid to be seen to be implementing it up here?
:58:10. > :58:14.We have an anti-cuts agenda across the island because we have got a
:58:15. > :58:23.party across the Ireland. But you have got to be real. People said to
:58:24. > :58:29.us, oh, Kilthe Bill. It may may a good headline, but it doesn't solve
:58:30. > :58:32.the problem. And this is going to cost ?1 million. We have been
:58:33. > :58:39.negotiating with his party and other parties around the table. Sammy
:58:40. > :58:43.Wilson? Let me go through the changes. We have one minute and we
:58:44. > :58:50.are off air and you will be talking to yourself. I talk to myself quite
:58:51. > :58:54.frequently. When I'm dealing with Sinn Fein I think I'm talking to
:58:55. > :58:56.myself because they don't seem to listen.
:58:57. > :59:03.APPLAUSE Old con. Spell it out to me. This is
:59:04. > :59:08.serious. It is. We have got to recognise that we are going to pay
:59:09. > :59:14.out this year ?105 million to the Treasury because we will not put
:59:15. > :59:18.through legislation which Alex Maskey has said he won't kill. Why
:59:19. > :59:22.are we going to spend money which could have been used to employ
:59:23. > :59:25.nurses, teachers and give it back to the Treasury when we have got
:59:26. > :59:30.concessions. We have got the bedroom tax done away with. We have got help
:59:31. > :59:37.with rates. We have got direct payments... Are you two, hold on,
:59:38. > :59:40.are you two prepared to talk to each other more quickly over the next
:59:41. > :59:47.couple of days and weeks? Well, I have been doing it for, when I was
:59:48. > :59:52.Finance Minister... We can do it before 2016. It has to be done
:59:53. > :59:54.before March. Sammy Wilson, thank you very much
:59:55. > :59:58.indeed. Alex Maskey, thank you. If you want to continue this at home,
:59:59. > :00:02.it is: We will see on the radio tomorrow
:00:03. > :00:30.morning at 9am. Thank you. Night-night, everybody.
:00:31. > :00:33.For Patsy and John, age is just a number.
:00:34. > :00:38.People might think that we're crazy, but we're looking after our health.
:00:39. > :00:42.At the top of their game, in the twilight of their lives...
:00:43. > :00:46.These are just some of my medals I've won over the years.