:00:00. > :00:00.Welcome along, we're live on BBC One.
:00:00. > :00:07.Here's what we've got for you tonight.
:00:08. > :00:21.First Minister Peter Robinson defends him.
:00:22. > :00:28.I don't trust them if they are fully devoted to Sharia law. I wouldn't
:00:29. > :00:31.trust them. Which will guidance. Would I trust them to go down to the
:00:32. > :00:37.shops for me? Of course I would. We have Pastor McConnell live in the
:00:38. > :00:40.studio - facing one of his strongest Sea lions at the circus - harmless
:00:41. > :00:45.entertainment or cruel exploitation? Respect MP George
:00:46. > :00:51.Galloway will be here. And local classical singer
:00:52. > :00:54.Margaret Keys will be performing Big show ahead of us tonight. Thank
:00:55. > :01:33.you for joining us. The row over a pastor's comments
:01:34. > :01:36.about Muslims just keeps growing. James McConnell was strongly
:01:37. > :01:38.criticised for saying he But First Minister Peter Robinson
:01:39. > :01:41.has now defended him. The DUP leader claims Pastor
:01:42. > :01:44.McConnell is being demonised. In a minute,
:01:45. > :01:47.we'll hear directly from the man But let's just remember
:01:48. > :02:05.how it's all unfolded. People say there are good Muslims in
:02:06. > :02:11.Britain. But I don't trust them. Enoch Powell was right. He lost his
:02:12. > :02:17.career because of it. Enoch Powell was a prophet. He told us that blood
:02:18. > :02:29.would flow in the streets and it has happened. Islamic State even. If
:02:30. > :02:35.Lamb is Satanic. -- Islam is a doctrine spawned in hell. He has
:02:36. > :02:40.clarified his comment. In the same way as I have. I would not trust
:02:41. > :02:44.Muslims to give me spiritual advice. I would not trust Muslims who are
:02:45. > :02:51.bombing. I would not trust those who are following Sharia law to the
:02:52. > :02:55.letter. However, there are normal daily activities in life which I
:02:56. > :03:02.would know have -- I would have no problem trusting a Muslim about. I
:03:03. > :03:05.am absolutely shocked that a politician, in a position of
:03:06. > :03:13.leadership, in a position of authority, can speak with such a
:03:14. > :03:18.doubleton. Well, Khalid Annis, you have come
:03:19. > :03:28.all the way over this evening from across the water. What is your
:03:29. > :03:33.reaction? I think it is disgraceful. I think it is shocking that somebody
:03:34. > :03:41.in a position of leadership, in a position of influence, somebody that
:03:42. > :03:45.everybody in Northern Ireland and, I would imagine in the mainland, looks
:03:46. > :03:57.up to for guidance, for leadership, can utter a statement which is full
:03:58. > :04:05.of hate. He would deny it is full of hatred. He would deny that. The
:04:06. > :04:09.trouble is, word of hatred... He would trust a Muslim to go to the
:04:10. > :04:17.shops for him. That's very kind of him! Would you trust a Muslim to
:04:18. > :04:22.treat his family in the hospital? It is a two edged sword. He may be
:04:23. > :04:28.trying to qualify, that is trusting certain Muslims, certain of us. I
:04:29. > :04:31.not interested. I think it is shocking. We should always remember
:04:32. > :04:42.from history, words of hatred always shocking. We should always remember
:04:43. > :04:46.where this is leading. You must be touched
:04:47. > :04:51.where this is leading. You must be Minister's support? I was surprised
:04:52. > :04:56.to hear Peter talk today. He didn't really need to do that.
:04:57. > :04:59.to hear Peter talk today. He didn't a man talks like that, his career is
:05:00. > :05:02.at stake. And I didn't want to get him to -- I
:05:03. > :05:10.at stake. And I didn't want to get trouble over me. I you touch that he
:05:11. > :05:19.stood up for you? Very touched. The Minister of health study for me.
:05:20. > :05:24.Sammy Wilson stood up. You have lots of friends within the DUP. You
:05:25. > :05:30.influential? No, I am not. I don't even belong to that party. Why are
:05:31. > :05:34.they rallying to your support? I think they believe in what I'm
:05:35. > :05:40.doing. They believe in my ministry, they believe me to be honest and
:05:41. > :05:45.sincere. I think I would qualify what Peter has said because he
:05:46. > :05:50.mentioned the Sharia law. Whatever way you want to pronounce it. I have
:05:51. > :05:56.heard it pronounced differently many times. I do not trust a Muslim
:05:57. > :06:07.because they are governed by Sharia law. Muslims in Northern Ireland, I
:06:08. > :06:11.don't trust them. But you don't trust any of them? If they are
:06:12. > :06:19.controlled by Sharia law? Any of them? Any of them because of Sharia
:06:20. > :06:24.law. If it says to do violence, they will do it, they will obey Sharia
:06:25. > :06:29.law. So this man opposite you, by default, you don't trust him because
:06:30. > :06:35.of his religion? I don't trust his religion. You don't trust him as an
:06:36. > :06:39.individual, you don't trust all Muslims? Tell him why you don't
:06:40. > :06:47.trust him. I don't trust him as an individual because of his religion.
:06:48. > :06:52.You are a man of God and you are looking in my eyes. You don't know
:06:53. > :06:54.me at all. And you are telling me that you don't trust me? Because of
:06:55. > :07:35.my faith. Even though. Sharia law impact on the? It impacts
:07:36. > :07:41.me by saying give 2.5% of your income to charity. By saying, do you
:07:42. > :07:45.know what, the pastor has said very rude things about Muslims and been
:07:46. > :07:52.very hurtful, but make the effort, go over and sit with him. Speak to
:07:53. > :07:56.him with kindness. He has said he would shake your hand. You told me
:07:57. > :08:02.this last week. You said you would have dinner with Khalid, you just
:08:03. > :08:05.don't trust him. It is pretty facile staff to judge a human being as
:08:06. > :08:12.untrustworthy before you have met them. You don't know anything about
:08:13. > :08:15.them. No, because of the history of Sharia law and because of the
:08:16. > :08:22.history of Islam throughout the world. I have here over 2000
:08:23. > :08:30.incidents of terrorists that believe in Sharia law and have caused havoc
:08:31. > :08:36.around the world. Are you serious? Are you serious? Do you want me to
:08:37. > :08:40.pick up my list of all the atrocities around the world
:08:41. > :08:45.committed for other people for other reasons? Do you want me to bring
:08:46. > :08:50.that to you? No, this religion, that is what I'm talking about.
:08:51. > :08:59.Christianity is above blame, is it? No. Well my goodness, where are you
:09:00. > :09:03.coming from. Listen to me. I had a phone call on the way up here from a
:09:04. > :09:10.local Belfast resident. A young lady. She said, please tell the
:09:11. > :09:18.pastor that when he spoke his words, since his brokers work, I have had
:09:19. > :09:24.so much hate crime against me. -- since he spoke his words. Do you not
:09:25. > :09:31.get it? You are a man of God. Instead of sitting here talking to
:09:32. > :09:36.me as one humanity, you are talking down to me. You are talking to me
:09:37. > :09:40.from an angle of hatred. You are talking from an angle of mistrust. I
:09:41. > :09:46.have Jewish friends, I have Christian friends, friends from all
:09:47. > :09:51.over, friends of no faith. And when we sit together, we have things that
:09:52. > :09:56.have a positive impact on society. If you were in Islamic countries,
:09:57. > :10:03.could you have me as a Christian friend? Oh, my goodness. First of
:10:04. > :10:12.all, let's put this straight. I am not in an Islamic country. This is
:10:13. > :10:16.my country. I abide by British law. This is my law, my Sharia law tells
:10:17. > :10:22.me to abide by the country's law that I live in. But Sharia law is
:10:23. > :10:30.coming into Britain. What world do you live in? This world. You
:10:31. > :10:35.absolutely do not. I have already told you how sharia governs my
:10:36. > :10:41.life. It governs my personal things, which have no impact on society. The
:10:42. > :10:47.trouble is, so many people, they talk about Islam from sound bites.
:10:48. > :10:52.Hold on a second, I have to tell you right now, in your defence, there
:10:53. > :10:56.has been a significant amount of support for you. There has been a
:10:57. > :11:03.lot of criticism, there has been a significant amount of support coming
:11:04. > :11:09.into the radio show, through all the different gateways that we have to
:11:10. > :11:13.the BBC. So, you clearly have a level of influence and you now have
:11:14. > :11:18.the support of the First Minister of this country. With that comes
:11:19. > :11:22.responsibility. Have you sat back and thought, since you issued this
:11:23. > :11:26.sermon, have you thought about the impact on local Muslims in this
:11:27. > :11:30.country, here in Northern Ireland? They have to send their kids to
:11:31. > :11:38.school. They have to go to the shops. Can I speak now? Yes. Thank
:11:39. > :11:43.you. When I uttered that statement, there was not one Moslem in Northern
:11:44. > :11:48.Ireland in my mind. I qualified it by saying that there were groups
:11:49. > :11:55.right throughout Britain, Muslim groups, ready to do violence. Just
:11:56. > :12:04.as there were cell groups of IRA in Britain. And the British frightened
:12:05. > :12:07.that they would bomb them. You also said that Enoch Powell was right and
:12:08. > :12:12.you could not pick a more racist comment then to suggest that Enoch
:12:13. > :12:28.Powell and his rivers of blood speech was correct. Yes, I believe
:12:29. > :12:31.it was, because it came to pass. With your logic, with greatest
:12:32. > :12:36.respect, you just talked about the IRA. This is why it is doubly
:12:37. > :12:41.shocking. We are sitting in a country which has been totally
:12:42. > :12:46.ripped apart by sectarian strife. By your own logic, everybody in this
:12:47. > :12:51.audience, you know what, I do not trust you. I do not trust you. That
:12:52. > :12:58.is your logic. The Americans, do not trust any Americans. 3000 innocent
:12:59. > :13:01.Americans killed by one strikes. I do not trust you. When you see that
:13:02. > :13:07.you do not trust him, what does that actually mean? You used an example
:13:08. > :13:15.of a few was instructed to engage in violence. If he wasn't struck had to
:13:16. > :13:20.-- instructed to engage in violence by Sharia law then he would do it. I
:13:21. > :13:23.know that he is laughing at me. I am not laughing, because it is
:13:24. > :13:29.happening. By the way, that young woman had her baby this morning.
:13:30. > :13:33.This is the young woman in Sudan, which is at the heart of a story
:13:34. > :13:42.that has been talked about nationally. This lady in Sudan has
:13:43. > :13:51.been sentenced to death. Do you support that? No, not at all. That
:13:52. > :13:59.is ridiculous. Why don't you protest then? The mac this is exactly my
:14:00. > :14:02.point. I have protested. Take that. I have protested. I have written. I
:14:03. > :14:05.have gone I have protested. I have written. I
:14:06. > :14:15.I have written to the Sudanese embassy? What do you want me to do?
:14:16. > :14:19.Can you prove this to me? The mac oh, my goodness. Why are you
:14:20. > :14:24.questioning his word? Because he is a Muslim? Because of the Sharia law.
:14:25. > :14:28.questioning his word? Because he is For your audience, this is a man of
:14:29. > :14:35.God sitting before you. And this is how you are speaking to me. But he
:14:36. > :14:42.is entitled... Of course ears, Stephen. He is not entitled to call
:14:43. > :14:46.you a liar. He is in title to stand by his face, entitled to criticise
:14:47. > :14:53.other religions, that is called freedom of speech. I have no problem
:14:54. > :14:56.with that. We can sit down and have a discussion about religion and
:14:57. > :15:00.faith and politics and sports, we might disagree more on sports. But
:15:01. > :15:06.we consider down and discuss anything. I do not mind. You want to
:15:07. > :15:10.criticise Islam, be my guest. You want to criticise the Muslim
:15:11. > :15:14.community, that is absolutely fine. But when you generalise, and when
:15:15. > :15:20.you stereotype, and when your notions are based on ignorance, that
:15:21. > :15:27.is problematic. Deep down, do you not regret any of the words that you
:15:28. > :15:33.used? No, I do not. I am being honest before God, I do not regret
:15:34. > :15:36.it, because I know it is the truth. History is the... None of the
:15:37. > :15:44.thousands of people who go to your church on a Sunday, none of them
:15:45. > :15:51.have challenged you? No, they have not. What about the Muslims in your
:15:52. > :15:57.congregation? Because they know me, they are used to me. Somebody phoned
:15:58. > :16:02.me and said, you have heard -- I have heard you say worse. That is
:16:03. > :16:08.not necessarily a compliment, is it? Let us go to the audience. This man
:16:09. > :16:13.here. Just after listening to yourself here, to be fair, I have
:16:14. > :16:16.Muslim friends as well and there are two sides to Sharia law as far as I
:16:17. > :16:20.can see. There is the side that I see over here and then there is this
:16:21. > :16:25.say that you see in the news and social media. I am not religious, I
:16:26. > :16:37.trust every religion, I do not judge people like that. I do not come
:16:38. > :16:51.across -- you do not come across as someone who is... Believes in these
:16:52. > :16:55.things. To be feared the past it has been taken out of context. He has
:16:56. > :17:01.clarified that he does not trust Muslims. That is a bit strong. He
:17:02. > :17:08.trusts Muslim is over here. No, he doesn't. Do you trust Muslims in
:17:09. > :17:14.Northern Ireland? Yes, because they give no trouble. The Muslims in
:17:15. > :17:18.Britain, that is the clarification of the statement. Cell groups
:17:19. > :17:21.throughout Britain, that is what I do not trust. So there are no
:17:22. > :17:27.Muslims in Northern Ireland following Sharia law. One second, I
:17:28. > :17:32.want to put the audience. You are talking when Muslims, they follow
:17:33. > :17:37.Sharia law, that is by their religion. If you're a Christian then
:17:38. > :17:40.you follow your religion by using the Bible. The Bible says to love
:17:41. > :17:45.your neighbour. If you do not trust your labour then how do you love
:17:46. > :17:52.them? That is an important part of trusting the mac loving your
:17:53. > :17:57.neighbour. I am not doing this man any harm. I would not hurt here on
:17:58. > :18:03.his head. It would not hurt here on anybody's head. You have obviously
:18:04. > :18:08.insulted and offended him. If I have insulted and offended him then I am
:18:09. > :18:15.sorry but I do not trust Sharia law. I do not trust it, it is an evil
:18:16. > :18:18.law, an evil law before God and I say that in front of him. It is an
:18:19. > :18:27.evil law. He knows that and it is right throughout the world. All
:18:28. > :18:37.Saints Church in Pakistan, six months ago was burned. 100
:18:38. > :18:44.Christians lost their lives, 200 were wounded. What is your point?
:18:45. > :18:48.They were all being Sharia law. They were not all being Sharia law. You
:18:49. > :18:56.do not understand what Sharia law is. Sharia law is not a rigid set of
:18:57. > :19:01.rules, by the way. Sharia law is supposed to be a flexible guidance,
:19:02. > :19:07.which actually changes from country to country from time to time. Number
:19:08. > :19:11.one. Number two, to say that those people were following Sharia law is
:19:12. > :19:15.ridiculous. It has got nothing to do with me here. I live in Britain, I
:19:16. > :19:23.follow British law. I would suggest that those of you who are saying, he
:19:24. > :19:30.did not really understand watch a real lawyers, but -- who do not
:19:31. > :19:34.really understand a bit of real, read up about it, but do not read it
:19:35. > :19:40.in the Daily Mail. Go to your Muslim friends, or go to somewhere
:19:41. > :19:50.repeatable. You are being investigated by the police. So I
:19:51. > :19:56.hear. Have they been in touch? No. So how can the investigate you? I do
:19:57. > :20:01.not know. They have not knocked my door. That is some investigation,
:20:02. > :20:06.isn't it! What are they investigating? Because it is freedom
:20:07. > :20:09.of speech. I am allowed to say this. I am not inciting hatred. You are
:20:10. > :20:16.not allowed to incite hatred, that is against the law. I am not
:20:17. > :20:23.inciting hatred. Your lead to brand all people of certain faiths and
:20:24. > :20:27.trustworthy? You allowed to do that? I brand among trustworthy because of
:20:28. > :20:30.this particular law. Which you know nothing about. I know much about it.
:20:31. > :20:34.How influential do you think you nothing about. I know much about it.
:20:35. > :20:42.over the people who come to your church? I am only a simple pasta. I
:20:43. > :20:47.passed 2000 people. church? I am only a simple pasta. I
:20:48. > :20:59.building. You have the ex-finance minister, he sits there, yet tense.
:21:00. > :21:07.-- he attends. You have had the First
:21:08. > :21:09.-- he attends. You have had the You're only a pastor? I have
:21:10. > :21:18.Jesus's support. You're only a pastor? I have
:21:19. > :21:26.that? He is guiding me. I pastor to 2000 people, I gave them. Whilst you
:21:27. > :21:28.may not see yourself as a person of influence Peter Robinson most
:21:29. > :21:34.definitely is and I definitely agree that words of hatred can turn to
:21:35. > :21:37.actions of hatred. What you make of what the First Minister has said?
:21:38. > :21:40.actions of hatred. What you make of cannot believe it, he is so
:21:41. > :21:46.influential and people definitely believe what he has to say. He has
:21:47. > :21:48.said that he would trust Muslims to vote the shops and
:21:49. > :21:53.said that he would trust Muslims to things. That is understandable, but
:21:54. > :21:57.there is still the distrust there. They do not fully trust Muslims,
:21:58. > :22:05.which I do not think his rates to save who is so influential. -- I do
:22:06. > :22:10.not think it is right to say that for someone who is so influential.
:22:11. > :22:13.There were church is recognised as a Protestant church although we have
:22:14. > :22:23.members who are Roman Catholics and we have members who are Muslims. I
:22:24. > :22:24.have been amazed at the post from Roman Catholics and believe it
:22:25. > :22:31.have been amazed at the post from not Republicans. I hope that Martin
:22:32. > :22:33.McGuinness is listening tonight. He has criticised you. Very much so. I
:22:34. > :22:39.replied to him. It is amazing that has criticised you. Very much so. I
:22:40. > :22:44.Roman Catholics and Republicans, who have encouraged me and said that
:22:45. > :22:47.what I am saying is the truth... Let us bring people in at home. If you
:22:48. > :22:52.are picking up the phone you will see the numbers coming up on your
:22:53. > :23:03.screen. Hello, David. I am a Protestant absolutely disgusted with
:23:04. > :23:10.the pastor and with the First Minister. It is such evil. We tried
:23:11. > :23:17.to get someone on from the DUP tonight. No one fun the DUP wanted
:23:18. > :23:21.to come on and defender First Minister. I do not know what you
:23:22. > :23:25.want to read into that but no one wait defend them. The Muslim
:23:26. > :23:30.community in Northern Ireland are more than welcome here and they do a
:23:31. > :23:32.good job and I think it is disgraceful that people target
:23:33. > :23:37.people just because they are Muslims or whatever else, it is a disgrace.
:23:38. > :23:44.They are not being targeted, are they? A pastor stands up in a house
:23:45. > :23:48.of God, which he says he is, which I do not think he is, which he says
:23:49. > :23:52.about Muslim people. You will get head cases in this country who will
:23:53. > :23:57.target these people for one reason or another. His remarks are a
:23:58. > :24:09.disgrace. A Protestant, I would not set foot in his church. What do you
:24:10. > :24:17.say to David? LAUGHTER.
:24:18. > :24:20.You would not sit in the church, but 2000 people do. I think it is very
:24:21. > :24:25.sad. The young lady with the glasses. I find it shocking what
:24:26. > :24:31.Peter Robinson said. He does not trust Muslims. What if a Muslim
:24:32. > :24:35.comes to him with an issue, it is the word again someone else. Would
:24:36. > :24:41.you trust the word or how would he take his constituent's issue
:24:42. > :24:46.forward? What do you say to your First Minister tonight? I am
:24:47. > :24:50.shocked. I have lived here from Scotland and this is the person
:24:51. > :24:54.leading the country you know. Not everyone is treated as equals, some
:24:55. > :24:58.people are trusted and some people are not, it is absolutely
:24:59. > :25:02.disgusting. What you think this message has, the story going across
:25:03. > :25:08.the water? This story was on Channel four News tonight, for goodness
:25:09. > :25:12.sake. The impact is severe. Even though in Northern Ireland are few
:25:13. > :25:14.Muslims, the impact on them should not be underestimated. You are very
:25:15. > :25:20.naive to think that your words do not have a direct impact on people.
:25:21. > :25:26.You are not allowed to criticise Islam in this country any more?
:25:27. > :25:31.Nobody is saying that. It is thought by many, you criticise Christianity,
:25:32. > :25:36.fair game. You criticise Islam and all of a sudden... That as a
:25:37. > :25:41.representative view. It may well be. If you want to
:25:42. > :25:44.criticise my faith, criticise anything you want, do not stereotype
:25:45. > :25:52.a whole community. You may not pick up arms, but do you know what, other
:25:53. > :25:56.people will do. And unfortunately there are people who have contacted
:25:57. > :26:01.me from the local Muslim community who have already felt that pressure.
:26:02. > :26:13.And from a man of God that is not good enough. In Islamic
:26:14. > :26:22.countries... Heidi keep bringing this up? It has nothing to do with
:26:23. > :26:26.me. It does have to do with you. I'm British-born. Yes, you are British.
:26:27. > :26:31.I might write to them, like I might write to anybody else that Amnesty
:26:32. > :26:35.International mate asked me to, it is nothing to do with me. I follow
:26:36. > :26:42.British law. The loyalist killings that there has been in Northern
:26:43. > :26:49.Ireland, are you to blame for those? No. It is from your community. Why
:26:50. > :26:56.are you not to blame when he is to blame? I am sure he is not to
:26:57. > :27:05.blame, but... But you do not trust me. That is right. You are small in
:27:06. > :27:10.this country and you are growing in Britain. This is my country. I have
:27:11. > :27:13.given to this country more than a lot of people have given. I
:27:14. > :27:18.contribute to this country, it is my country, it is my Britain. Do not
:27:19. > :27:28.take ownership of that from me. This is my country, thank you very much.
:27:29. > :27:32.We are going to continue talking about this on the radio show
:27:33. > :27:36.tomorrow morning. We're going to continue talking about this on
:27:37. > :27:44.Twitter right now. And indeed right after the show -- the sure we will
:27:45. > :27:52.be taking your views. Please get our two guests round of applause.
:27:53. > :27:59.As Duffy's circus rolls into town with it's sea lion act, one animal
:28:00. > :28:06.Now, my next guest first came to the prominence on a BBC talent show
:28:07. > :28:10.Since then she has performed on Songs of Praise, and BBC Proms,
:28:11. > :28:12.and has been signed to Universal Records.
:28:13. > :28:15.Singing one of my favourite songs - ?Bring Him Home' from Les
:28:16. > :28:36.Miserables - ladies and gentlemen please welcome Margaret Keys.
:28:37. > :28:57.# In my need
:28:58. > :29:22.# Let him rest
:29:23. > :29:45.# Bring him home
:29:46. > :29:56.# If God had granted me a son
:29:57. > :30:19.How soon they fly # On and on # And I am old # And will be gone # Bring
:30:20. > :30:48.# Bring him joy # He is young # He is only a boy # You can
:30:49. > :30:57.# Let him be
:30:58. > :32:04.die # Let him live # Bring him home # Bring him home # Bring him home.
:32:05. > :32:23.Beautiful, absolutely beautiful. Thank you so much.
:32:24. > :32:45.Here's how you at home can get involved tonight.
:32:46. > :32:47.Politicians always divide opinion. But surely very few of them do
:32:48. > :32:53.that more than my next guest. MP George Galloway - a fiery, brave,
:32:54. > :33:17.independent voice - or a dangerous, You were books to come on quite a
:33:18. > :33:22.while ago. What a night for you to be on. What is your reaction towards
:33:23. > :33:27.our First Minister in Northern Ireland regarding his support for
:33:28. > :33:32.Pastor James McConnell. I felt as if I was on the set of Mississippi
:33:33. > :33:37.burning. I felt like Gene Hackman in the barbershop. Your staff had to
:33:38. > :33:45.hold me back from confronting the kind of mindless, ignorant, bigotry
:33:46. > :33:49.to which your audience has just been treated. I really don't think you
:33:50. > :33:57.should underestimate just how grotesque that first item was. A you
:33:58. > :34:03.Tube classic, and not in a good way. He has the support of our First
:34:04. > :34:08.Minister. That is the point. The DUP has been in touch with us to say
:34:09. > :34:12.that under no circumstances has the First Minister said that he does not
:34:13. > :34:16.trust all Muslims. They want to make that clear. They just haven't taken
:34:17. > :34:22.the opportunity to make it clear. There was an open seat for them,
:34:23. > :34:27.where on earth are they? Otherwise, it would just be the case of
:34:28. > :34:32.embarrassingly -- of an embarrassingly foolish old man who
:34:33. > :34:39.thinks that Muslims followed Sharia law, a word that he mispronounced 11
:34:40. > :34:46.times. He has a lot of support. Otherwise, it would just be that. It
:34:47. > :34:50.is the fact that power pool -- powerful people in this government
:34:51. > :34:55.worship in his ministry every Sunday. And the First Minister no
:34:56. > :34:59.less... And I heard the car crashed into view that Peter Robinson gave
:35:00. > :35:07.today. The interview he gave to the news. He does not say that in no
:35:08. > :35:14.circumstances he does not trust Muslims. He said it three times...
:35:15. > :35:17.He spelt out circumstances in which she would not trust Muslims. He
:35:18. > :35:24.would trust want to go to the shops for him. And do everyday tasks for
:35:25. > :35:30.him. Yes, that was kind of him. But the offence that that will have...
:35:31. > :35:36.He said everyday tasks, everyday life, is what he said. It is on
:35:37. > :35:42.Channel four News, it is also an Al Jazeera news. It is travelling
:35:43. > :35:49.across the world that the First Minister of this place indoors
:35:50. > :35:53.Batman who said... He defended him, he did not endorse everything he
:35:54. > :35:58.said. But he defended him so resolutely that you cannot slip
:35:59. > :36:02.sixpence between that pastor and Peter Robinson. That is how it will
:36:03. > :36:07.be seen in the world. Best not to go looking for any investment from the
:36:08. > :36:13.Islamic world any time soon. Best not go looking for any tourists.
:36:14. > :36:20.They don't want to visit the set of Mississippi burning. This is
:36:21. > :36:26.madness. This shows this place as a 400-year-old throwback. What would
:36:27. > :36:32.happen if David Cameron said something similar? If any minister,
:36:33. > :36:35.or any shadow minister in Britain had said what Peter Robinson had
:36:36. > :36:41.said today, he would already have resigned. Hold on a minute. So a
:36:42. > :36:49.First Minister is not allowed any more, some people might admire him
:36:50. > :36:57.because he is defended a man whom he has known for 20 years. He has also
:36:58. > :37:03.defended free speech. You are a big advocate of free speech. Not of hate
:37:04. > :37:08.speech, I am not. Why is it hate speech? The police have not
:37:09. > :37:14.contacted him? That speaks volumes, too. This pastor said that Muslims
:37:15. > :37:20.were the spawn of the devil. He said the faith, not Muslims, the faith.
:37:21. > :37:24.Islamic State. That is a distinction without a difference. Do you think
:37:25. > :37:32.the Bangladeshi shopkeeper or the Pakistani doctor here in Belfast or
:37:33. > :37:37.elsewhere, here in the North of Ireland, makes a distinction? They
:37:38. > :37:48.believe that that he was talking about them, not their faith abstract
:37:49. > :37:53.Lee. If I hear that a hair on the head of any Muslim is now harmed,
:37:54. > :37:58.who do you think will be blamed and how big a story well that the? Peter
:37:59. > :38:05.Robinson has made it clear that he does not support violence. That is
:38:06. > :38:08.somewhat problematic in itself. I don't want to intrude on Irish
:38:09. > :38:15.political matters in this discussion. He had the opportunity
:38:16. > :38:20.to finish this story today. He could have said, actually, I don't agree
:38:21. > :38:24.with the words the pastor used. But he is a decent man, I have known him
:38:25. > :38:30.for 20 years but I would never have used that language. Is there not an
:38:31. > :38:33.issue with the Islamic faith? Is there not an issue that some people
:38:34. > :38:39.who adhere to an interpretation of Jerry along support a woman in Sudan
:38:40. > :38:47.are being given 100 lashes and executed because she has committed
:38:48. > :38:52.up -- adultery. -- those who adhere to an interpretation of Sharia law.
:38:53. > :39:03.You telling me there would be no Muslims in who follows the Sharia
:39:04. > :39:09.law who would be supporting that? I defy you to produce one? Is there no
:39:10. > :39:13.Islamic extremism in England? There is. And the man sitting here was one
:39:14. > :39:20.of the leading men who condemns it. But this Islamic extremism, do you
:39:21. > :39:26.think the pastor's words and Peter Robinson's support will help or
:39:27. > :39:33.hinder extras in Britain? Will it make people more fanatic or less
:39:34. > :39:37.frenetic this was eight -- or less fantastic. This was a grossly
:39:38. > :39:43.frenetic this was eight -- or less petrol to a fire that could have
:39:44. > :39:49.been put down to another crackpot pastor in Northern Ireland.
:39:50. > :39:58.been put down to another crackpot what has been done. About you and
:39:59. > :39:58.been put down to another crackpot your Respect party courting the
:39:59. > :40:07.Muslim vote? I am of Irish Catholic your Respect party courting the
:40:08. > :40:08.part -- background. I don't even know if you are of a Muslim
:40:09. > :40:16.background. It is know if you are of a Muslim
:40:17. > :40:23.business. Plenty of plenty of people used to talk about Catholics like
:40:24. > :40:24.that. These should talk about the Pope as an antichrist. Most people
:40:25. > :40:33.in Britain Pope as an antichrist. Most people
:40:34. > :40:36.Ireland was getting away from that. Peter Robinson tall that up today.
:40:37. > :40:42.That is what happened. This story could go away, couldn't it? Well, it
:40:43. > :40:46.was an British national news tonight. It is on the news all over
:40:47. > :41:03.the Muslim world and if we are unlucky, there will be be somebody
:41:04. > :41:07.talking about Shah ra ra law. He knows nothing about the words, you
:41:08. > :41:13.knows nothing about the religion, he is smearing it in a comprehensive
:41:14. > :41:17.way. And the man who sat opposite him as a hero. Why do you think he
:41:18. > :41:25.has so many supporters? That is worrying. Is that not democracy? I
:41:26. > :41:28.think that decent people should do is associate themselves from this
:41:29. > :41:38.fanatic that you had on. This guy wants to speak. Let's get a Mike to
:41:39. > :41:43.you. Jaws, you are scaremongering. The man was in his own church, in
:41:44. > :41:53.his own Assembly for 40 years, teaching people. Raising them up to
:41:54. > :41:59.raise a family, to respect every person. That is why he is respected
:42:00. > :42:03.in his church. The media came in and listen to what he was saying on the
:42:04. > :42:07.platform. Then they manipulated it and brought him into the world and
:42:08. > :42:20.told him he was telling people he didn't trust them. I am sorry, you
:42:21. > :42:25.listen. The media did not tell him anything. The media manipulated
:42:26. > :42:34.everything that he said. Can we talk rather than just shout. This
:42:35. > :42:38.audience, this whole audience... The Christians are starting to stand up.
:42:39. > :42:48.We are now having a goal more. It is as simple as that. Do you trust...
:42:49. > :42:58.Do you mistrust all Muslims? Trust is built through knowing. So how do
:42:59. > :43:01.you trust Pastor McConnell. Why do you go to his church for six months
:43:02. > :43:06.and then come out and tell him that he is a bigot? Here's a man of God
:43:07. > :43:10.who has brought and Protestants together for years. George Galloway
:43:11. > :43:18.is a scaremonger. Everywhere he goes he once media -- he once media
:43:19. > :43:26.attention. A way back to Britain. Thank you very much. As far as I can
:43:27. > :43:36.see, there is a one person shouting here and it is you. You can, of
:43:37. > :43:39.course, reply to you. There was a rather disturbing number of people
:43:40. > :43:45.who found that contribution worth applauding. As you are in -- as they
:43:46. > :43:49.are entitled to do. If it is not disturbing to you it is certainly
:43:50. > :43:53.disturbing to me. The media did nothing in this story. He was not
:43:54. > :43:59.just speaking in his church, his sermons are online, to the world.
:44:00. > :44:04.And his words were not manipulated. Who are you going to believe which
:44:05. > :44:32.FGM me, or the evidence of your own eyes? -- me. MAN SHOUTS.
:44:33. > :44:37.You saw and heard what he said. He praised enough Powell. He said that
:44:38. > :44:48.he had been right. He said that Islam was the spawn of the devil. --
:44:49. > :44:55.Enoch Powell. He did not say that he did not trust Islam. He said that he
:44:56. > :44:58.did not trust Muslims. Some say that there are some good Muslims in this
:44:59. > :45:05.country, maybe so, but I do not trust them. I was just going to
:45:06. > :45:12.respond to that gentleman's response there. He says it was taken out of
:45:13. > :45:17.context, Pastor McConnell's use, but we have literally just seen him in
:45:18. > :45:25.context in front of the wall nation saying, yes, he does not trust
:45:26. > :45:30.Muslims. It is in context. Let us come back to the issue. Some
:45:31. > :45:40.politicians are pretty mealy-mouthed. Peter Robinson made
:45:41. > :45:46.the comment today, how come it is OK to mistrust all politicians? He
:45:47. > :45:53.speaks with authority and he needs to have responsibility in what he
:45:54. > :45:58.says. He has a very public profile and a platform and he needs to take
:45:59. > :46:04.responsibility. If he has those views that's his prerogative. Last
:46:05. > :46:13.point to you, George, one needs to happen now? Does need to be clarity?
:46:14. > :46:18.I think unless Peter Robinson comprehensively withdraws what he
:46:19. > :46:25.said this morning then he must be deemed not fit for office. That is
:46:26. > :46:33.for the Northern Irish public to decide, isn't it? It is, but as
:46:34. > :46:37.foreign as I know, Peter Robinson once Northern Ireland to be a member
:46:38. > :46:43.of the United Kingdom. As a member of the Northern Ireland -- of the
:46:44. > :46:50.United Kingdom Parliament, the overwhelming view is that this man
:46:51. > :46:53.is not fit for office. He was my final question, because we are out
:46:54. > :46:57.of time. It may be the case at the next general election, who knows
:46:58. > :46:59.of time. It may be the case at the what way that will turn out, but it
:47:00. > :47:01.may be the case that the Conservatives, that Cameron would
:47:02. > :47:08.may be the case that the need the DUP support. Can you
:47:09. > :47:09.may be the case that the David Cameron taking flak now across
:47:10. > :47:14.the water she aligns himself or joins up with the DUP and some guys
:47:15. > :47:20.because of how it could be interpreted or not? I your local
:47:21. > :47:24.pass quickly enough. I think it will quickly come up again. David
:47:25. > :47:34.Cameron's feat is of no interest to me. But the fate of the people here
:47:35. > :47:36.is of great and familial and historic interest to me. And I just
:47:37. > :47:42.feel very sad, as most people will, historic interest to me. And I just
:47:43. > :47:52.I have heard tonight and to hear the applause that the bigot over there
:47:53. > :48:00.got. APPLAUSE. We are out of time. Please thank our
:48:01. > :48:07.guest tonight, George Galloway. And off he goes. He has gone
:48:08. > :48:13.already. Roll up, roll up. Duffy's Circus is in Belfast this week that
:48:14. > :48:18.there is criticism surrounding the sea lion act. An animal rights group
:48:19. > :48:34.has called for the circus to be boycotted.
:48:35. > :48:40.At yesterday's matinee performance this sea lions entertain an audience
:48:41. > :48:46.of predominantly families by balancing balls and catching rings.
:48:47. > :48:51.The act is a new addition to the circus. This is one of their
:48:52. > :49:00.trainers. If you do not love animals you cannot do this life. That is the
:49:01. > :49:04.main reason. Most of the people who complain, most of them, sorry to
:49:05. > :49:08.say, but they do not know about animals. They do not know how it is
:49:09. > :49:12.for an animal if he was born in captivity. Of course you have to
:49:13. > :49:20.treat them well, I am for it, I am foreign that you have outside cages
:49:21. > :49:28.for lions and tigers and tanks for sea lions. We want to. We have a lot
:49:29. > :49:34.of money -- we spend a lot of money to give them a better life. But what
:49:35. > :49:38.did those who came to see the circus think of the sea lions? Wim Abbey
:49:39. > :49:51.were a very delicate, they were not in any way hurtful to the animals.
:49:52. > :50:02.They were treated really well, they were really welfare. Well trained.
:50:03. > :50:11.And joined from Tom from the circus and a member of an animal-rights
:50:12. > :50:14.group. It is self-explanatory. In the world see lions would dive for
:50:15. > :50:18.hundreds of metres, here they are performing in a circus, in a
:50:19. > :50:25.paddling pool or a pool of water. This is literally a lace. Let us
:50:26. > :50:32.call a spade a spade, if we were to go -- if we were to go back 100
:50:33. > :50:40.years and might not have had a problem with it either. But the
:50:41. > :50:48.science was not on our side. How is the science on your side now? We
:50:49. > :50:51.know about cruelty and abuse. Is cruelty to look after animals well
:50:52. > :51:00.in a circus? Two we have seen this sea lions year. The clues in the
:51:01. > :51:05.name. In this day and age it is absolutely wrong. Most people would
:51:06. > :51:09.be able to see what is wrong with keeping an animal that is highly
:51:10. > :51:13.intelligent and a pool of water. You were dragging these animals all over
:51:14. > :51:22.the country and that is the God 's honest truth. If I can just say, my
:51:23. > :51:26.family has been in the circus business since the 1800 's. In all
:51:27. > :51:30.that time we have had animals in our charge. We have never, ever been
:51:31. > :51:35.either cautioned or prosecuted for the way that we keep animals. It
:51:36. > :51:41.does not make it morally right though, does it? The proof is in the
:51:42. > :51:46.eating. You look at the sea lions there. They have been born in the
:51:47. > :51:50.circus. They have not been born in the ocean, they have not been
:51:51. > :51:53.captured from the sea. But they have never experienced what they should
:51:54. > :51:59.have experienced. You have deprived them of that. I have not deprived
:52:00. > :52:04.them of that. And the public entertain them. I have absolutely no
:52:05. > :52:09.problem with that. I would not be here tonight if I did have a problem
:52:10. > :52:14.with it. I know that our animals are well looked after and well cared
:52:15. > :52:23.for. I know that they are loved. But I be exploited for profit and
:52:24. > :52:27.entertainment? No, I would not think so. Animals all around the world are
:52:28. > :52:31.used for profit, whether it is show-jumping, horse racing, dog
:52:32. > :52:39.racing, once an animal is happy and safe, and that after, then I am
:52:40. > :52:43.happy. John has been saying for the last 20 years that there is
:52:44. > :52:48.undercover investigations regarding cruelty to animals in circuses. He
:52:49. > :52:51.has been saying that and planting seeds in people's minds in 20 years
:52:52. > :52:55.and every time I have asked John over those 20 years what have the
:52:56. > :53:01.proven against the animals in Duffy's Circus he will never answer
:53:02. > :53:04.me. A couple of things. I would ask you, you talk about your love of the
:53:05. > :53:09.animals. It shows you that you are completely out of touch with these
:53:10. > :53:12.creatures. How do you keep these animals mentally stimulated apart
:53:13. > :53:23.from the pool of water that they are kept in? Yes. How? Give him a chance
:53:24. > :53:27.to and CU! They work in the performance every day. They are
:53:28. > :53:31.dealing with their handlers, who they are used to. They have access
:53:32. > :53:35.to the pools inside and outside 24 hours a day. They are handled and
:53:36. > :53:45.would have to and played with all the long. Who plays with them? You
:53:46. > :53:52.imply antler. -- you employ a handler? There is someone on a shift
:53:53. > :54:02.and nobody ever sleeps and deeply for them -- play with them 24 overs
:54:03. > :54:13.Western Mark. The handlers live beside them 20 47. Let us speak to a
:54:14. > :54:20.ringmaster in Oxford. Explain to me how these sea lions have a great
:54:21. > :54:24.quality? Animals in a circus, sea lions included, are working animals.
:54:25. > :54:32.That is what David Duffy is trying to explain. They have a relationship
:54:33. > :54:38.with trainer, and the... According to David Duffy they are with them
:54:39. > :54:42.all day. What he is trying to explain is that there is a close
:54:43. > :54:46.relationship, they are working. They have a lot to think about, they have
:54:47. > :54:50.a working day, they have training, they have performances. They are not
:54:51. > :54:56.sitting there are lying there are swimming about board. They have
:54:57. > :55:02.plenty to do. That replaces what they would be doing in nature. That
:55:03. > :55:06.is what must be looked at. I am confident that is what Duffy's
:55:07. > :55:10.Circus is doing. It is nonsense. Duffy's Circus for well over ten
:55:11. > :55:20.years had a tiger act. People just need to go onto YouTube and search
:55:21. > :55:24.for it. Duffy's Circus and tigers. It does not really matter. You can
:55:25. > :55:31.see amateur footage pages, they were driven berserk.
:55:32. > :55:36.They pages, they were driven berserk.
:55:37. > :55:43.tigers for 23 years. The footage tigers for 23 years. The footage
:55:44. > :55:54.that John has shown of the animals in the cage pacing is
:55:55. > :56:07.opinion and nobody else's opinion is relevant. Daniel, you have been
:56:08. > :56:11.protesting week. As you said at the start of the show, animal cruelty is
:56:12. > :56:16.the issue. It goes beyond beating and starving animals, it extends to
:56:17. > :56:19.the issue. It goes beyond beating decide reaches of the five freedoms.
:56:20. > :56:25.One of those freedoms is their right decide reaches of the five freedoms.
:56:26. > :56:39.behaviour. You saw in the clip there what sort of natural scenario would
:56:40. > :56:43.see lion jumped through a hoop or through a paddling pool. In this
:56:44. > :56:48.free society, you not getting the message that you are clearly in the
:56:49. > :56:51.minority if it is profitable for Duffy's Circus and hundreds of
:56:52. > :57:03.thousands of people are supporting him. Mr Duffy will know
:57:04. > :57:09.thousands of people are supporting been a bit misleading... How?
:57:10. > :57:15.According to his Facebook place it has been sold out and packed out
:57:16. > :57:16.every night. I have in their... Daniel seems to have an absolute of
:57:17. > :57:30.session with our Facebook page. Daniel seems to have an absolute of
:57:31. > :57:40.love it. We are the most successful circus in Ireland. Have you blocked?
:57:41. > :57:42.Our Facebook page is a business page. It is for people who come to
:57:43. > :57:46.see the circus page. It is for people who come to
:57:47. > :57:47.circus. Not to comment on the circus, to praise it but not to
:57:48. > :57:53.comment on it. If you comment circus, to praise it but not to
:57:54. > :57:58.then you get blocked. If you use circus, to praise it but not to
:57:59. > :58:00.words like they have that I am scum, that I am an animal abuser. He has
:58:01. > :58:07.not said that. that I am an animal abuser. He has
:58:08. > :58:12.that, let us be clear. This is on the Facebook page. If they use
:58:13. > :58:18.words, and this is Daniel's words. Hold on a moment, they are not
:58:19. > :58:23.Daniel's words. I am going to quote Daniel. Hurry up. Daniel and find
:58:24. > :58:28.everybody on his Facebook date last night that everybody came to our
:58:29. > :58:33.circus when we were full last night, we were full of the ignorant, which
:58:34. > :58:40.means that everybody who had the right... I did, and I can justify
:58:41. > :58:45.that. Definition of the word ignorant as lack of knowledge and
:58:46. > :58:50.understanding and awareness. He justified, he made clear to me what
:58:51. > :58:54.it meant, unsophisticated, lacking of knowledge, or lacking of
:58:55. > :58:59.education. So everybody that wanted to come to see our circus are
:59:00. > :59:10.lacking of knowledge, they are... He is entitled to say it. Those who
:59:11. > :59:14.come to our circus are entitled to come and see it without being
:59:15. > :59:20.slandered, without being intimidated, without being... All I
:59:21. > :59:23.can say is this. I am absolutely exhausted by this show tonight. We
:59:24. > :59:30.need to continue to talk about it on Twitter now. We are out of time. We
:59:31. > :59:35.are on the radio tomorrow morning, 9am, we will pick up all of these
:59:36. > :59:42.debates and run with it. Thank you for your company tonight. In the
:59:43. > :59:44.meantime, good night of the body. -- good night everybody.