:00:07. > :00:12.Welcome to the Referendum Debate. Four days to go and the polls neck
:00:13. > :00:13.and neck, Scotland faces its biggest ever decision and tonight, we are in
:00:14. > :00:40.Stirling. APPLAUSE
:00:41. > :00:44.On our panel, two campaigners from each side of the debate, Labour's
:00:45. > :00:52.Shadow Foreign Secretary and a key figure in the Better Together
:00:53. > :00:55.Campaign, Douglas Alexander. Stewart Hosie, the SNP's Treasury spokesman
:00:56. > :00:58.at Westminster. The leader of the Scottish Conservative Party, Ruth
:00:59. > :01:03.Davidson and the actor and Yes Campaigner, Elaine C Smith. The
:01:04. > :01:06.audience are evenly divided. We have voters of independence on one side
:01:07. > :01:10.and opponents on the other. We have some who're still at this stage
:01:11. > :01:12.still making up their minds. The audience have submitted their
:01:13. > :01:18.questions and the panel have not seen them. Welcome to Wallace High
:01:19. > :01:23.School. To truly command Scotland, you
:01:24. > :01:26.needed Stirling. It was the gateway between the Highlands and the
:01:27. > :01:31.Lowlands, the broach that clasped the country together.
:01:32. > :01:41.Scotland's Great Warrior heroes, William Wallace and Robert the Bruce
:01:42. > :01:42.won famous victories here at Stirling Bridge and on the
:01:43. > :01:43.Bannockburn. The man who you nighted the
:01:44. > :01:49.monarchies of Scotland and England, jails VI, was crowned here.
:01:50. > :01:53.Modern Stirling is balanced between nationalism and unionism, there is
:01:54. > :01:56.an SNP MSP but a Labour Conservative coalition runs the council. This
:01:57. > :02:01.thriving university city has a strong retail and finance sector and
:02:02. > :02:08.tourists still flock here to listen to Scotland's story.
:02:09. > :02:12.In four days' time, more than four million voters will write the next
:02:13. > :02:16.chapter. So let us get on with the debate and
:02:17. > :02:23.the first question from Thomas Burns this evening.
:02:24. > :02:29.Why would multinational billion pound corporations issue public
:02:30. > :02:33.warnings if they did not mean it? ? Stewart Hosie? There are a number of
:02:34. > :02:36.things that have been said by a number of businesses over the last
:02:37. > :02:40.few weeks. I'm not surprised they have come out. We know the
:02:41. > :02:43.supermarkets, for example, were called into Ten Downing Street to
:02:44. > :02:53.have their arms twisted up their backs. We've seen that before. We
:02:54. > :02:57.know that the banks have said a number of things, but if you look at
:02:58. > :02:58.that in particular, particularly RBS, they have said no jobs are at
:02:59. > :03:03.risk and no functions are at risk, operations won't change the way
:03:04. > :03:10.banking is carried out. I think if you listen to other people, Sir
:03:11. > :03:16.Angus saying much of what has been said is a credibly overstated. There
:03:17. > :03:19.are lots of warnings overstated. Those issues warn about some other
:03:20. > :03:25.things. Some have an EU in-out referendum on the risk out register.
:03:26. > :03:26.Others are concerned about modest extra devolution so of course
:03:27. > :03:31.they'll consider all the things that are going to come up next. They'll
:03:32. > :03:35.put in place the contingency plans. That is absolutely normal but no
:03:36. > :03:59.jobs are to be lost, no functions are to be lost and we need to stay
:04:00. > :04:02.calm and understand in this wealthy prosperous nation, if businesses
:04:03. > :04:05.think they can make a profit, they'll continue to run and operate
:04:06. > :04:06.in and out of Scotland to the benefit of themselves and the
:04:07. > :04:08.economy. We want to take as many questions as
:04:09. > :04:14.possible so put your hands up and we'll come to you in a moment, but
:04:15. > :04:21.first to Douglas Alexander. What happened last week was an avalanche
:04:22. > :04:28.of facts engulfed the asessions we have had from the nationalists --
:04:29. > :04:40.assertions we have heard from the nationalists. You have to ask why
:04:41. > :04:41.every single Scottish bank said they would move the registered
:04:42. > :04:42.headquarters to England in the event of a yes vote. It's because 90% of
:04:43. > :04:43.the products are sold to English customers. They want to be part of a
:04:44. > :04:45.UK regulatory system. They want the authority of the Bank of England,
:04:46. > :04:49.the central behind hind them and they want the security of 63 million
:04:50. > :04:52.taxpayers standing behind them. So it's not some great conspiracy
:04:53. > :04:54.involving MI5, the BBC, Iceland, ASDA and a whole range of other
:04:55. > :04:55.organisations. The fact is, these organisations are not lying, they
:04:56. > :04:56.have got a responsibility. I think they did probably come out last week
:04:57. > :05:02.because of the poll we saw at the weekend suggesting that Yes support
:05:03. > :05:04.was at 50% and they felt obliged to speak up. I believe there is a
:05:05. > :05:09.better way we can secure the 200,000 jobs that are in financial services
:05:10. > :05:13.here in Scotland. That's to have the faster, safer, better change being
:05:14. > :05:17.offered within the United Kingdom so we can hold on to the currency and
:05:18. > :05:22.the regulator and also the stability that's the platform for the Scottish
:05:23. > :05:26.jobs. Thank you. The man in the pink on
:05:27. > :05:31.the front row? Douglas Alexander mentions a whole
:05:32. > :05:37.sea of facts and I would love to see just one and maybe I could put it to
:05:38. > :05:40.you that I would ask you just one. I know lots of companies that have
:05:41. > :05:43.kept head offices and there are zero job losses. So of the major three
:05:44. > :05:48.Scottish banks, what would the impact be to the economy with the
:05:49. > :05:51.job losses? If you look at Nicola Sturgeon and what she's said in the
:05:52. > :05:54.past, retention of corporate headquarters is fundamental to the
:05:55. > :05:58.Scottish economy. I used to be a lawyer in Edinburgh. Once you lose
:05:59. > :06:02.headquarters capability, it's no just the jobs within the
:06:03. > :06:05.organisations, it's the support services. We have got an interest in
:06:06. > :06:13.keeping every possible headquarters that we can and when we are in a
:06:14. > :06:14.position that we are now with just four days to go, the Scottish
:06:15. > :06:18.Government is silent in these circumstances and they would be
:06:19. > :06:26.saying this is effectively the end of Scottish banking.
:06:27. > :06:31.Mr Hosie, the Chief Economist of Deutsche Bank clearly doesn't have a
:06:32. > :06:37.dog in this fight yet. He has seen fit to make some comments. I wonder
:06:38. > :06:41.whether you think he's missing something or whether he's an idiot?
:06:42. > :06:48.We'll come back to that in a moment. The woman on this side with the Yes
:06:49. > :06:50.badge? Douglas, is it not also true that in the event of the EU in-out
:06:51. > :06:54.referendum that American companies are going to move out of Britain to
:06:55. > :06:59.Ireland? Let's put that to Ruth Davidson? I
:07:00. > :07:03.want to pick up on something Stewart said when he said there were no jobs
:07:04. > :07:10.at risk. I do not accept that, neither does the Head of Standard
:07:11. > :07:14.Life who said he'd move operations south of the border. There are 5,000
:07:15. > :07:22.people employed in Edinburgh with Standard Life. I want to know why
:07:23. > :07:25.the jobs are worthwhile of Stewart's concerns. One of the thing this is
:07:26. > :07:40.conspiracy has about people speaking out, on Monday billions of pounds
:07:41. > :07:44.were wiped off Scottish registered companies on the stock market. An
:07:45. > :08:08.hour after RBS said on Tuesday that it was going to shift its registered
:08:09. > :08:15.headquarters south, it had made ?490 million of that back. The Prime
:08:16. > :08:26.Minister, all of the people on our side have been perfectly clear about
:08:27. > :08:27.this. We want as many voices to be heard about this. The only people
:08:28. > :08:30.that want to stop voices talking about what's happening seem to be on
:08:31. > :08:31.the other side. People say there is going to be a day of reckoning for
:08:32. > :08:32.Scottish businesses. APPLAUSE
:08:33. > :08:35.Saying that BP is going to have to bend the knee. There's talk of a
:08:36. > :08:40.boycott and what kind of people do these companies think they are,
:08:41. > :08:42.they'll find out. I don't think it's good for Scottish business or for
:08:43. > :08:45.people looking at Scotland wanting to see Scotland open for business to
:08:46. > :08:45.see a whole list of companies moving headquarters down south. It's not
:08:46. > :08:46.good for Scottish business. APPLAUSE
:08:47. > :08:51.Elaine C Smith, is there a day of reckoning on the way if there's a
:08:52. > :08:55.yes vote for businesses in Scotland? I don't really think so. But on the
:08:56. > :08:56.point that was made, I don't think there's anything wrong with
:08:57. > :08:57.businesses having concerns about what is about to happen. I run a
:08:58. > :08:59.small business as well, a small production company. You are
:09:00. > :09:06.perfectly legitimate in asking that. For me in all of this, it's been the
:09:07. > :09:07.way it's been spun. It's the way that it's been dealt with and that
:09:08. > :09:07.there isn't... APPLAUSE
:09:08. > :09:08.We are always being told about balance. There are thousands of
:09:09. > :09:09.small businesses, medium and large in Scotland who also do not have
:09:10. > :09:11.that fear, that absolute terror of what is going to happen and they are
:09:12. > :09:20.not being given the same voice. This is all about lender of last resort
:09:21. > :09:35.and this could all be sorted and if George Osborne said there would be a
:09:36. > :09:40.currency union, this would be over. The SNP have been very naive in
:09:41. > :09:43.thinking there'll not be a loss of jobs because, as has been discussed
:09:44. > :09:48.when the headquarters moves south, the functions will go south as well
:09:49. > :09:53.and when it comes to spin, it's the Yes side who've been spinning far
:09:54. > :09:56.more than the No side ever has. They don't like to have to take their own
:09:57. > :10:00.medicine. There's been a number of points. In terms of the Deutsche
:10:01. > :10:08.Bank question which is important, the report seems to take no notice
:10:09. > :10:13.to the underlying strength of the economy. Tax per head for the last
:10:14. > :10:24.30 years relatively strong. Fiscal position strong. Standard Life, the
:10:25. > :10:33.same warnings in 1979 and 1997, the same warnings in 2014. In terms of
:10:34. > :10:34.what has happened with the markets, the markets haven't been spooked
:10:35. > :10:36.because of Scottish independence, they've been spooked by the lack of
:10:37. > :10:38.preparedness of the British government for Scottish
:10:39. > :10:44.independence. The final point in terms of what was
:10:45. > :10:48.said, there won't be a day of reckoning, there'll be a day of
:10:49. > :10:52.celebration. A Yes Vote will be a vote of national self-confidence for
:10:53. > :11:03.the Scottish people. Douglas Alexander? Only last week we had the
:11:04. > :11:06.First Minister saying he was team Scotland, as if somehow David Soul
:11:07. > :11:11.who left the Scottish rugby team out into Murrayfield, as if Lynndie
:11:12. > :11:16.Sharp who won a gold medal for Scotland is a 30-year-old, somehow
:11:17. > :11:20.they are not part of team Scotland. You cannot offer a day of
:11:21. > :11:26.celebration to your supporters, a day of reckoning to the rest of us
:11:27. > :11:38.and claim to be uniting Scotland. That is not the kind of debate we
:11:39. > :11:41.want. After yes, will you join team Scotland? I don't need to prove my
:11:42. > :11:53.patriotism. Elaine C Smith?
:11:54. > :11:56.I just want to say. Jim is our dear friend and I'm actually on this
:11:57. > :12:01.whole journey in a belief in independence because of him and
:12:02. > :12:10.Malcolm McDonald. At 7 Years of age, he has been out there every single
:12:11. > :12:13.day since the death of his wife, campaigning up and down this
:12:14. > :12:18.country. Jim maybe used language that is slightly old-fashioned,
:12:19. > :12:28.Labour-right but... But what does it mean? Wait a minute. But, within
:12:29. > :12:31.that, he was expressing much of the sentiments that were on the
:12:32. > :12:36.doorsteps. I was out yesterday. Not many people in Craig Miller are
:12:37. > :12:41.shopping in John Lewis or Waitrose or any of those shops and they were
:12:42. > :12:50.concerned. A lot of citizens are concerned at that sort of
:12:51. > :12:54.threatening from businesses. A lot of them are saying, if you don't
:12:55. > :12:56.vote the way we want to, and it's your democratic right, if you don't
:12:57. > :12:58.think somebody is treating you right, you take your business
:12:59. > :13:05.elsewhere and that's legitimate a thing to do.
:13:06. > :13:11.I would like to raise four points. Well, no, one. We don't have time
:13:12. > :13:15.for four. Quickly, please? The share price dropped and bounced up the
:13:16. > :13:22.next couple of days. That could have been avoided if the Chancellor had
:13:23. > :13:27.come out and defended it. But the real reason that happened was
:13:28. > :13:33.because somebody in the Treasury leaked that. In addition to that.
:13:34. > :13:42.The headquarters of the Royal Bank and Lloyds Bank to London, moving
:13:43. > :13:43.them to London, under European law they have to have their head offices
:13:44. > :13:43.in the countries in which they have the greatest turnover. You should
:13:44. > :13:47.remember and you should know this, Douglas, that Lloyds have had their
:13:48. > :14:00.headquarters in London for many, many years. But who is the major
:14:01. > :14:06.shareholder in the Royal Bank of Scotland? And how dare they come out
:14:07. > :14:06.and say that unless they'd had the shareholders, in other words the
:14:07. > :14:10.Treasury, Condon them actually coming out and saying that? Ruth
:14:11. > :14:13.Davidson. The Treasury are responding to media requests and,
:14:14. > :14:17.with the best of the knowledge they had, the Sun newspaper had already
:14:18. > :14:30.RSPCA Well, just for the record, I received that e-mail and I didn't
:14:31. > :14:35.request it. As I understand it, they had a media
:14:36. > :14:41.request from the Sun from somebody from RBS and they responded when the
:14:42. > :14:43.markets were closed. Now, what I want to know from what Elaine was
:14:44. > :14:47.saying is, you know, I have a huge amount of respect for Jim and I have
:14:48. > :14:50.more respect for him in some ways than some of the positions the SNP
:14:51. > :14:54.have taken because the independence he wants is actual independence,
:14:55. > :14:57.helps his own currency and a different Head of State. But let's
:14:58. > :15:01.not write off what he said. He didn't say it because he was caught
:15:02. > :15:06.out, he craft add press release. He decided to do it, yes. I don't think
:15:07. > :15:11.that the undertones of that were terribly helpful to anybody in this
:15:12. > :15:14.day of reckoning. Learn to bend the knee, talking of boycotts. You know,
:15:15. > :15:18.this doesn't help us when we come back together because no matter what
:15:19. > :15:23.happens on the 18th, we have to come back together as a country. When I
:15:24. > :15:28.look at Alex Salmond organising his day of celebration, with the
:15:29. > :15:31.negotiating team in place, I look at the semi-final team of a football
:15:32. > :15:36.team already booked the open-top bus, we know how that goes. I'm a
:15:37. > :15:39.Dunfermline fan, that doesn't work out. He shouldn't be taking the
:15:40. > :15:44.people of Scotland for granted when the votes haven't been cast yet. For
:15:45. > :15:48.the next three-and-a-half days, I'm not standing outside the BBC talking
:15:49. > :15:56.about conspiracies, I'm out there forfighting for Scotland.
:15:57. > :15:59.You can contribute to the debate on Twitter. The hashtag is
:16:00. > :16:17.#bbcindyref. Another question, now, from Alan
:16:18. > :16:21.Caldwell. If Better Together with sincere about more powers, why was
:16:22. > :16:27.it only offered a week before? If Better Together word sincere, why
:16:28. > :16:32.was it only offered with a week to go? It wasn't. We returned it much
:16:33. > :16:35.earlier this year. It has been sitting on the Scottish Conservative
:16:36. > :16:40.Party website. It is available for anybody to see, for a number of
:16:41. > :16:45.months. We are utterly convinced, as a Conservative, and from right of
:16:46. > :16:49.centre, I want to end the situation where a First Minister and a finance
:16:50. > :16:52.minister, the start of every year, get a grant and all they are in
:16:53. > :16:56.charge of doing it handing out and they don't have to lug a taxpayer in
:16:57. > :17:05.the eye. I want a tax minister to look at ministers, and be in charge
:17:06. > :17:09.of the tax that they raise. It is not about saying that everything in
:17:10. > :17:12.Scotland which is good is because the Scottish Government spent money
:17:13. > :17:13.on it, and Everything bad is because of those at Westminster. That does
:17:14. > :17:24.not make a country better. A point from the man in the purple
:17:25. > :17:28.shirt, right in the middle of the audience? Is it not true because
:17:29. > :17:32.this is a constitutional change that you are offering more powers, it has
:17:33. > :17:37.to go through the House of Commons and they can veto any powers that
:17:38. > :17:43.you give Scotland? Thank you. Right up the back, with the glasses? All
:17:44. > :17:48.three main Scottish parties, Unionist parties, they said ages ago
:17:49. > :17:54.that there will definitely be more powers for the Scottish parliament
:17:55. > :17:59.in the event of a No Vote. Isn't it shocking that four days from the
:18:00. > :18:01.referendum there is still so much uncertainty because Yes Scotland
:18:02. > :18:06.haven't given any answers and nobody knows what will happen in the event
:18:07. > :18:09.of a Yes Vote, even down to when we would actually become separate,
:18:10. > :18:13.because they have just dictated in a White Paper the data that Scotland
:18:14. > :18:19.would become an independent country? It couldn't become independent until
:18:20. > :18:25.negotiations are finished, however long that takes, and I think it will
:18:26. > :18:28.take a long time. Stuart Hosie, you can't possibly know a date,
:18:29. > :18:33.potential date for Scottish independence even if there is a Yes
:18:34. > :18:39.Vote? It is laid out in the White Paper. How do you know how long
:18:40. > :18:42.negotiations will take? Some glaciations on the key things need
:18:43. > :18:46.to be complete, which is absolutely right. But the process begins with a
:18:47. > :18:51.Yes Vote next Thursday, it ends in the spring of 2016 when we become
:18:52. > :18:54.independent. Then negotiations on other matters will continue after
:18:55. > :19:00.that. In terms of this question about more powers and devolution, we
:19:01. > :19:03.have proposals from Labour, the Conservatives and the Lib Dems which
:19:04. > :19:10.would devolve something in the order of 20% to 30% of Scotland's tax base
:19:11. > :19:16.much Scotland. I think the days when Unionist politicians can say, you
:19:17. > :19:24.are grown in -- grown-up enough to have 20% of your resources... He
:19:25. > :19:31.says it is 15%? It is 15% of the spending of the Parliament, barely
:19:32. > :19:34.30% of the total tax base. The Scottish people are grown up enough,
:19:35. > :19:42.mature enough and democratic enough to look after 100%.
:19:43. > :19:51.The man in the colourful shirt? I am prepared for the good Yes Vote, it's
:19:52. > :19:57.going to be sunny every day. I'm sorry, go on. I would like to take
:19:58. > :20:04.up Ruth Davidson on her stance on all of this devolution that is going
:20:05. > :20:08.to happen. You became head of the Conservatives because you said you
:20:09. > :20:14.were going to draw a line on any further devolution going to
:20:15. > :20:18.Holyrood, and that is a fact. And Alex Salmond said that sterling was
:20:19. > :20:21.a millstone around our necks, now he's fighting for currency union.
:20:22. > :20:28.There is clearly an appetite in Scotland for more powers, remaining
:20:29. > :20:31.part of the United Kingdom, having strength and stability, keeping the
:20:32. > :20:34.things we like about the UK but having more autonomy and having a
:20:35. > :20:38.way in which we do politics in Scotland, where it is not a politics
:20:39. > :20:42.of grudge and grievance, which is what we have had for seven years. Do
:20:43. > :20:48.you want to come in? I would just like to say that I think she has
:20:49. > :20:56.done a complete 180 degrees turn on this.
:20:57. > :21:00.I have been in Scottish Labour for almost 30 years and every one of
:21:01. > :21:05.those days I have leaved in devolution. I stood in George Square
:21:06. > :21:09.in 1992 demanding Scottish parliament. I have carried banners
:21:10. > :21:12.up Carlton Hill, I have stood in the rain in the meadows arguing for
:21:13. > :21:16.Scottish Parliament. When a late, great Donald Dewar said that
:21:17. > :21:23.devolution was a journey, I think he spoke the truth. I think it is a
:21:24. > :21:26.journey, and I am proud of the fact that we legislated in 1997 to
:21:27. > :21:32.establish a Scottish parliament. I'm proud of the fact that, since then,
:21:33. > :21:35.we have had 27 further evolution is matter of powers within the United
:21:36. > :21:40.Kingdom to the Scottish Parliament. When we published our paper in
:21:41. > :21:43.March, it was setting out Scottish Labour's thinking, how do we get a
:21:44. > :21:49.stronger Scottish Parliament with the strength, security of the Ashya
:21:50. > :21:59.King the minders? Why have you watered it it down? It is weaker
:22:00. > :22:03.than the original proposals? There were interim proposals that we
:22:04. > :22:07.looked at. Let me answer your point. This is a serious point, there are
:22:08. > :22:16.some people in this debate that believe that nothing can, from the
:22:17. > :22:20.United Kingdom that is good. I disagree. There are significant
:22:21. > :22:24.benefits to pooling and sharing the risks, resources and rewards of the
:22:25. > :22:28.United Kingdom between 64 million people. That means we could have a
:22:29. > :22:32.state pension system with 64 million people standing behind it. We can
:22:33. > :22:37.have a national insurance scheme... Comeback to the question, sorry. How
:22:38. > :22:41.do you strike the right balance between a strong Scottish parliament
:22:42. > :22:44.and maintaining the strengths, security of benighted kingdom? I
:22:45. > :22:50.believe the proposals put forward, the timetable for change, will give
:22:51. > :22:53.Scotland what most of us want. Faster, better and safer change
:22:54. > :22:56.within the United Kingdom, not all of the risks, uncertainties and
:22:57. > :23:02.doubts that we still haven't answered with four days to go.
:23:03. > :23:11.The woman in White, with the spotty dress? I believe we have got the
:23:12. > :23:17.best of both worlds now, I am very passionate, I believe in that. But
:23:18. > :23:20.my question is, don't you think that, given that Alex Salmond says
:23:21. > :23:25.we can keep the pound, don't you think we would have more powers in a
:23:26. > :23:32.non-independent Scotland than in an independent Scotland with fiscal
:23:33. > :23:39.union? Elaine C Smith? I don't actually understand why you would
:23:40. > :23:42.give up the chance of all of the power to take just some of the
:23:43. > :23:49.power. I really don't understand that. Also, I would like to say,
:23:50. > :23:57.like Douglas, we were at the same demonstrations. I am a great admirer
:23:58. > :24:00.of Donald Dewar, I was there at the moment that brought about the
:24:01. > :24:04.Scottish parliament. It is a journey, and I think, at this point,
:24:05. > :24:11.we are at a really important part of the journey, where Scots have got to
:24:12. > :24:15.the point, the campaigns that have gone on on both sides, they have
:24:16. > :24:19.been wonderful to be part during these years. Although there have
:24:20. > :24:26.been negative parts as well, I think it wonderful. I think the woman
:24:27. > :24:30.would like to come back to you. The reason I feel we don't need more
:24:31. > :24:37.powers is that I have an MP at Westminster. I'm British, I'm
:24:38. > :24:42.already represented at Westminster. Your point would be that an
:24:43. > :24:45.independent Scotland, with a currency union, would have less
:24:46. > :24:50.power? Is that the point you are trying to make? Well, that is the
:24:51. > :24:53.point that the woman originally made, would there not be less
:24:54. > :24:59.powerful Scotland within that scenario? I don't believe so. If we
:25:00. > :25:03.have absolute control of all of the fiscal levers, so that we can
:25:04. > :25:10.actually spend's I realise, there is a debate within this, if the Bank of
:25:11. > :25:17.England, the bank of UK, as it should be called, if it was actually
:25:18. > :25:21.the bank overseeing everything, for me, a little bit of that sovereignty
:25:22. > :25:27.that we would have to others, as Mark Carney has actually said, would
:25:28. > :25:30.be given over. I don't mind that, because I actually think the overall
:25:31. > :25:36.control and the ability to control and look after our own country, for
:25:37. > :25:40.the people that live and work here, is infinitely preferable to what we
:25:41. > :25:51.have now, and some little powers. The lady who asked the question is
:25:52. > :25:54.absolutely right. The currency union, as proposed, and we know why
:25:55. > :25:57.it has been proposed, they worry they would lose the referendum if
:25:58. > :26:03.they were not able to pretend they can keep the pound, we will end up
:26:04. > :26:07.as Scots with less power, not more power. It means a government in
:26:08. > :26:11.London, to whom we would send no representatives, would set our
:26:12. > :26:16.interest rates, which affects our car loans, rates, credit card bills,
:26:17. > :26:19.it would mean they set the parameters for fiscal policy, why
:26:20. > :26:24.would we want less power rather than more power when we can have Scottish
:26:25. > :26:26.representation in UK Parliament and all of the strength and stability of
:26:27. > :26:40.being part of that single market? Douglas, you are the strategy chief
:26:41. > :26:46.of Better Together. The three parties came up with their default
:26:47. > :26:55.powers in April. After the knee jerk reaction, Gordon Brown, not part of
:26:56. > :27:01.Better Together, puts on a back of a fag packet, claiming that these
:27:02. > :27:03.powers can be signed, sealed and delivered in four months. Wouldn't
:27:04. > :27:08.it be a good idea to have them signed, sealed and delivered in time
:27:09. > :27:12.for the referendum? Then you might have won. The way things are, it
:27:13. > :27:13.seems that, to quote your Better Together TV advert, you haven't
:27:14. > :27:31.really thought things through. If people are making their judgement
:27:32. > :27:38.based on the back of a fag packet, I don't know if you have seen the yes
:27:39. > :27:44.side's ideas, we know what the capital is going to be and the
:27:45. > :27:49.flag, but we don't know what the currency will be. Alex Salmond is
:27:50. > :27:55.saying the sovereign will of the Scottish people, combined the people
:27:56. > :27:58.of England, Wales and Northern Ireland. That is not how it works.
:27:59. > :28:02.It means those parts of the United Kingdom will become a foreign
:28:03. > :28:05.government. They are perfectly entitled to make their judgement as
:28:06. > :28:07.to whether a currency union is in their interest is, surely as much as
:28:08. > :28:17.we are in Scotland. As Douglas mentioned a minute ago
:28:18. > :28:21.about the monetary policy and fiscal policy effectively becoming the
:28:22. > :28:25.prerogative of the Bank of England and we have no control over it, I
:28:26. > :28:32.don't see how that advances our cause as a nation, particularly
:28:33. > :28:35.given the tendency on the Yes Scotland campaign to basically
:28:36. > :28:42.talked down and poison the relationship with the rest of the
:28:43. > :28:45.UK. I'm wondering, how many companies have to give warnings of
:28:46. > :28:49.price rises or possible redundancies, and I know two people
:28:50. > :28:54.at RBS who have been told their job is at risk as a result of what is
:28:55. > :28:59.going on. With the glasses, behind you, sir? We were told by Alastair
:29:00. > :29:08.Darling and Alex Salmond that this would be a non-political debate. I
:29:09. > :29:11.know of nothing more expressed, in terms of opinions, as the
:29:12. > :29:15.referendum. Surely we should have it as a non-political debate? None of
:29:16. > :29:21.us here will be involved. By the time the referendum is taken, by the
:29:22. > :29:26.time devolution or independence comes in, we will be six feet under.
:29:27. > :29:32.Thank you very much, let's take the next question from Paul Garner. Do
:29:33. > :29:35.the panel feel that the media coverage during the run-up to the
:29:36. > :29:37.referendum has been fair and impartial?
:29:38. > :30:02.I have been really, really disappointed, I have to say. The
:30:03. > :30:11.fact that we are neck and neck in the polls is now a miracle, I think,
:30:12. > :30:16.at the moment. Given that only one Sunday newspaper in Scotland, the
:30:17. > :30:21.Sunday Herald has come out in favour of independence. Even then, only a
:30:22. > :30:29.couple of months ago. I think the barrage of negativity, of things
:30:30. > :30:34.that are biased, that have emerged through the London based papers, has
:30:35. > :30:41.really shamed us all, I have to say.
:30:42. > :30:47.Even with things like... It is actually on a journalistic level as
:30:48. > :30:55.well, where is the examination? When the polls... Where was the real
:30:56. > :31:01.examination on the BBC, and beyond to what is really going on here? I
:31:02. > :31:07.think many, many people across the country have been really sickened by
:31:08. > :31:10.it. They are not seeing that this has been allowed to be a fair and
:31:11. > :31:14.balanced debate. And journalists have been saying this as well.
:31:15. > :31:22.Thank you. Ruth Davidson, there's a big demonstration outside the BBC in
:31:23. > :31:24.Glasgow today alleging the BBC's been biassed in this referendum. We
:31:25. > :31:30.have heard similar accusations against the newspapers. What is your
:31:31. > :31:43.response? First of all, there's about 2,000 people barricading the
:31:44. > :31:46.BBC. It's 6,000. I'm glad they. That's 6,000 people not knocking on
:31:47. > :31:49.doors. There's a rule in broadcasting when you come up to a
:31:50. > :31:54.referendum, both sides need parity of time to make their case. That's
:31:55. > :31:57.what's happening. Newspapers can take an editorial decision and I
:31:58. > :32:03.don't like the nationalism that Elaine used talking about
:32:04. > :32:08.London-based... HECKLING. Scotland on Sunday that's
:32:09. > :32:13.come out for no is not a London-based paper.
:32:14. > :32:18.The Sunday Post has come out just today, it's not a London-based paper
:32:19. > :32:24.and I know it's over the border but the Guardian who came out for a no
:32:25. > :32:30.is not a London-based paper either, it's been headquartered in
:32:31. > :32:36.Manchester I think. Every single one of them has written
:32:37. > :32:39.an editorial saying why. And to every one, they have said the case
:32:40. > :32:43.has note been made, the questions haven't been answered, people do not
:32:44. > :32:50.have enough information to take that leap in the dark. Thank you.
:32:51. > :32:57.The man here with the jacket, yes, Sir? Thanks, James. I have to say,
:32:58. > :33:02.Elaine, respectfully I disagree because what Yes Scotland and the
:33:03. > :33:08.separatists don't understand is that people and aspects of the media from
:33:09. > :33:12.wherever they come from are pointing out the sheer economic illiteracy of
:33:13. > :33:22.the plans for an independent Scotland.
:33:23. > :33:27.You say about questions not being answered, as an undecided voter, you
:33:28. > :33:31.are not answering any questions for me right now. The woman behind you
:33:32. > :33:35.with the glasses in the purple? I'm wondering if Ruth ever looks on to
:33:36. > :33:40.Facebook and you can see the full interviews of the likes of John
:33:41. > :33:44.Lewis, instead of just the BBC editing when he didn't say what you
:33:45. > :33:47.are saying he said. I really think you should look a wee bit further
:33:48. > :33:51.than your nose. I would like to come to Stewart
:33:52. > :33:55.briefly. We have not heard from Stewart Hosie yet. Do you feel that
:33:56. > :33:59.media coverage has been fair and impartial? Do you? I think when you
:34:00. > :34:07.look at programmes like this, this is the second one I've done balanced
:34:08. > :34:12.audience and panel, impartial chair, absolute impeccable balance.
:34:13. > :34:18.However, we then get the Metropolitan sneering of certain
:34:19. > :34:22.journalists who, and the Nick Robinsons of this world, who have
:34:23. > :34:29.untold anger in the real world. There are people who I know are
:34:30. > :34:34.voting yes. Senior people who've not declared, who're now likely to
:34:35. > :34:37.declare publicly because of their absolute outrage at the way in which
:34:38. > :34:43.certain parts of the media have chosen to portray this debate. This
:34:44. > :34:49.has enner sized Scottish politics, energised communities the length and
:34:50. > :34:57.breadth. We are going to have an 80% turnout, 97% of the people are
:34:58. > :35:01.registered and... Voting no! And it's been sneered at, talked down
:35:02. > :35:05.and been misrepresented just like that!
:35:06. > :35:23.CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
:35:24. > :35:27.We have seen yet another example of nationalism.
:35:28. > :35:30.We are in a position where on Wednesday we had every Scottish bank
:35:31. > :35:31.announcing that they would move their registered office.
:35:32. > :35:33.Let us hear his answer. And in the morning.
:35:34. > :35:38.Ladies and gentlemen, hang on a second. Shouting is all very well,
:35:39. > :35:42.but I would quite like to hear people's Annes as well. On the
:35:43. > :35:46.morning the Prime Minister attacked the BBC five times, then Nick
:35:47. > :35:50.Robinson live at the Scottish National Party we are holding. Why
:35:51. > :35:59.has he done that? Maybe it's because the BBC's coverage hasn't been very
:36:00. > :36:01.good. Personally I think politicians
:36:02. > :36:06.complaining about the media are like fish complaining about the sea, but
:36:07. > :36:10.why has he done this? He's a clever man, the First Minister. First of
:36:11. > :36:14.all, he wants to fool people, and we heard it again this evening, to
:36:15. > :36:19.somehow suggest that we are too put upon by people outside of Scotland
:36:20. > :36:22.to be able to reach our own independent judgments which is
:36:23. > :36:25.incidentally what the Sunday Post, Scotsman on the independent on
:36:26. > :36:29.Scotland have done. I will fight from now until Thursday at 10
:36:30. > :36:36.o'clock to defy a First Minister who suggests only he understands what's
:36:37. > :36:44.good for Scotland. The woman with the red scarf?
:36:45. > :36:49.I think it's shameful for the Labour Party to collude with not only the
:36:50. > :36:51.media but with big money as well. If you look at the social media, you
:36:52. > :37:08.will see the YouTube video showing the clip that was shown by Nick
:37:09. > :37:08.Robinson on the BBC and actually what happened in reality, Alex
:37:09. > :37:12.Salmond answered the question that he was asked about the currency. I
:37:13. > :37:12.think it's shameful that you don't even represent the people of
:37:13. > :37:13.Scotland. Douglas Alexander? Then Elaine C
:37:14. > :37:17.Smith. The nationalists are struggling with
:37:18. > :37:23.the facts and so they are trying to change the subject. Point one.
:37:24. > :37:26.Secondly, let's have no doubt they are laying down the foundation of a
:37:27. > :37:33.betrayal myth. They want, after they lose on Thursday, to be able to say
:37:34. > :37:34.it was London-based newspapers, it was the BBC. We are smarter than
:37:35. > :37:37.that. We are reaching our own decisions and nobody, including the
:37:38. > :37:40.First Minister, is going to intimidate us away from making our
:37:41. > :37:48.independent choice. The man in the tie, then Elaine, I
:37:49. > :37:53.promise I'll come to you. If they had been handing out gold medals at
:37:54. > :37:57.the Olympics for sneer, then Alex Salmond, Stewart Hosie and the rest
:37:58. > :38:05.of team Scotland would have got the gold for sure.
:38:06. > :38:10.I just think all of us here should at least have some respect for the
:38:11. > :38:18.genuine grievances that are out there about the way the media have
:38:19. > :38:22.behaved. This isn't... I'm in the campaign and you may have a certain
:38:23. > :38:27.opinion about it, but this is a genuine movement out there. Could I
:38:28. > :38:31.say, when we are talking about nationalism, why is it all right for
:38:32. > :38:34.the whole of the media to be purporting British nationalism. Why
:38:35. > :38:39.is British nationalism good and Scottish Nationalism is bad?
:38:40. > :38:50.CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
:38:51. > :38:55.You? I'm an undecideder and with all the negativity particularly from
:38:56. > :38:57.south of the border, I wonder what will happen if there's a yes vote
:38:58. > :39:00.and yes wins on Thursday. How will the UK Government, you know, will
:39:01. > :39:04.they support or hinder the independence for Scotland? We may
:39:05. > :39:11.come to that. We'll stick to the media at the moment for now and come
:39:12. > :39:20.to the man here? Yes? The Yes Campaign is larger than Alex
:39:21. > :39:24.Salmond, it's more than one man. We are hearing the constant attacks on
:39:25. > :39:28.one man. We are a movement. Thank you.
:39:29. > :39:31.Ruth Davidson? You don't like it. Let's hear the
:39:32. > :39:37.answer. I absolutely understand that and how people have been involved in
:39:38. > :39:43.this campaign who perhaps think something different like Douglas
:39:44. > :39:46.Canavan and Douglas Harvie feels hamstrung by being tied to Alex
:39:47. > :39:49.Salmond. When Alex Salmond goes on TV and said the White Paper is the
:39:50. > :39:54.mandate, that is what will happen, when he goes on TV and says what is
:39:55. > :39:57.in the White Paper would be the sovereign will, then actually, the
:39:58. > :39:59.Yes Campaign has to take responsibility that that's the
:40:00. > :40:04.prospectus being put on the table and if we are talking about the
:40:05. > :40:07.media, the woman sitting next to you with the red scarf on talking about
:40:08. > :40:11.politicians colluding with the media, well, it was rue purr Murdoch
:40:12. > :40:15.who Tweeted he phones Alex Salmond the night before the poll to chat
:40:16. > :40:19.with him about it. So let's not pretend this is only on one side of
:40:20. > :40:23.this. I think there are some quite unlikely bed fellows on all sides of
:40:24. > :40:30.this. And it's not just Alex Salmond, it's
:40:31. > :40:46.brine Suitor and rue purr Murdoch and others on this side of the
:40:47. > :40:51.debate. Dorothy Christos? I believe the best foundation by which we can
:40:52. > :40:55.get the fair and equal society is 64 million people working together. I
:40:56. > :41:00.don't want a race to the bottom on taxes, on terms and conditions for
:41:01. > :41:06.working people on pay. That's what I fear we'll see. There's only one
:41:07. > :41:08.measure in those 670 pages of Alex Salmond's White Paper which is about
:41:09. > :41:13.redistribution. It doesn't redistribute money from the rich to
:41:14. > :41:19.the poor, it actually gives a 3p tax cut to some of the richest
:41:20. > :41:23.corporations in society. If we are serious about delivering a
:41:24. > :41:26.fairer society, I would like to see a banker's bonus tax, money take
:41:27. > :41:31.foreign the banks to help get young people back into work. I would like
:41:32. > :41:34.to see an energy price freeze so the big six energy companies are held
:41:35. > :41:38.accountable and we can get gas and electricity bills down. I would like
:41:39. > :41:43.to see a banker's heavy so we can make sure the balance sheets of
:41:44. > :41:48.banks are used properly for the benefit of the poorest in society.
:41:49. > :41:51.Every one of the policies is opposed by the Scottish Government. Every
:41:52. > :41:56.one of the policies is supported by the Labour Party. We'll be stronger
:41:57. > :42:04.together and we can deliver that to society together. Douglas said he
:42:05. > :42:13.wants an energy freeze. We have proposed a price cut. A far more
:42:14. > :42:16.sensible thing to do. The enhanced childcare plan saving families
:42:17. > :42:22.money, the Tax Credits and welfare rising in line with inflation.
:42:23. > :42:25.Keeping and extending the living wage, keeping the educational
:42:26. > :42:32.maintenance allowance, building on the support the Scottish Government
:42:33. > :42:36.were gives to nose in need with the council tax, helping 500,000
:42:37. > :42:44.vulnerable families. We have got the make political choices. So we can
:42:45. > :42:50.continue to share the risks of keeping trident 30 miles from a city
:42:51. > :42:55.or we can abandon it. CHEERING AND
:42:56. > :43:04.APPLAUSE The woman in red? Speaking of a
:43:05. > :43:08.fairer country, probably one of the key things is our NHS. I'm a
:43:09. > :43:11.consultant surgeon, I've worked in England, I've worked in Scotland. I
:43:12. > :43:15.grew up in India and I've seen countries where they envy our NHS.
:43:16. > :43:21.And I know that today, as we speak, five million of us in Scotland have
:43:22. > :43:27.many, many, many patients with diseases that are so rare that we
:43:28. > :43:31.need currently today to seek treatments down in England. 60
:43:32. > :43:36.different conditions. We would not be able to treat them in somed if we
:43:37. > :43:39.didn't collaborate with colleagues in England. Medicine is becoming
:43:40. > :43:43.more specialised and advanced. We need to collaborate together. We'll
:43:44. > :43:51.compromise the care of these patients if we do not work more
:43:52. > :43:55.closely and with devolution, we currently, we have already
:43:56. > :43:58.compromised on standards because we - I try to get Monday for my
:43:59. > :44:01.patients to make sure my nursing colleagues are paid the same as
:44:02. > :44:15.people in England... I think we've got the point. Thank you.
:44:16. > :44:30.Elaine C Smith? Well, I can't answer the specifics
:44:31. > :44:33.of the NHS. I'm not Health Minister. But... It would be great if we could
:44:34. > :44:35.hear each other. Let's hear this answer, please. I do believe,
:44:36. > :44:36.however, that with a written constitution in Scotland, we will
:44:37. > :44:42.enshrine the rights of people here to a Health Service that will be
:44:43. > :44:44.free at the point of need and ensure that we have the rights to do that.
:44:45. > :44:58.And to have a written constitution, I go back to your point, I believe
:44:59. > :44:59.voting yes is actually the start of creating a fairer, better society.
:45:00. > :45:01.For the last 50 years of my lifetime, I've not witnessed tho
:45:02. > :45:02.powers or that Westminster in particular through success of
:45:03. > :45:07.Governments have actually done enough for the people who need it
:45:08. > :45:10.the most. That is why there is what has been referred to as a politics
:45:11. > :45:15.of grievance, if you like, because it's not been done. The people who
:45:16. > :45:19.need it the most, the poorest and most vulnerable and the sick have
:45:20. > :45:23.not been looked after by the people they elected to Westminster and that
:45:24. > :45:26.is why... ALL SPEAK AT
:45:27. > :45:43.ONCE Ruth Davidson? A written constitution has never
:45:44. > :45:46.fixed a broken leg. It has been solely in control of Holyrood
:45:47. > :45:51.politicians to spend money on health. The SNP promised every pound
:45:52. > :45:55.that came up, from health care down south, would be spent on health. And
:45:56. > :46:01.they have not done it. Just this week, the IFS, an independent body,
:46:02. > :46:06.said the amount of money spent on health care down south has gone up
:46:07. > :46:11.by 4.4%, in Scotland it has gone down by 1.2%. We are spending less
:46:12. > :46:20.and we are healing less. In the pink? Further back. You just put
:46:21. > :46:26.your hand down the second. It was exactly the point that Ruth Davidson
:46:27. > :46:32.has just made, in that recent IFS report, that there was a reduction
:46:33. > :46:36.in Scotland as opposed to an increase in the rest of the UK. You
:46:37. > :46:42.can't deny that. The man in the blue shirt? I just want to pick up on
:46:43. > :46:49.what Stuart Hosea said about bringing down energy bills. The
:46:50. > :46:54.actual National Grid's ?18 billion was set aside for the whole UK
:46:55. > :46:58.National Grid. ?6 billion has gone to Scotland. Where are you going to
:46:59. > :47:05.find the money? Through increased energy prices? Contributions on a
:47:06. > :47:09.fairer and more equal society, the woman in the glasses? If Westminster
:47:10. > :47:12.had any interest in creating a fairer and more equal society, why
:47:13. > :47:18.did they not follow the recommendations of the report, set
:47:19. > :47:25.upon oil fund and reinvest some of the money into the deprived areas of
:47:26. > :47:28.Scotland? The banks registering themselves down south after
:47:29. > :47:32.separation, with big business getting a 3% tax cut, who bears the
:47:33. > :47:38.brunt of picking up the tab of continuing to fund public services
:47:39. > :47:44.in Scotland? The woman in front? I would like to say that I respect Mr
:47:45. > :47:48.Alexander's passion about getting things equal for Scotland. But I
:47:49. > :47:52.worked in Lanarkshire, through the Thatcher years, through the Labour
:47:53. > :47:55.years, and I saw what happened with the children, the unemployment. And
:47:56. > :48:07.I feel that Westminster cannot do it. When we were in office, we
:48:08. > :48:12.lifted 100,000 Scottish children out of poverty, 200,000 pensioners out
:48:13. > :48:17.of poverty and didn't happen by chance, it happened by choice.
:48:18. > :48:19.Establishing a minimum income guarantee, establishing pension
:48:20. > :48:23.credit, establishing TV licences, all of the other changes we were
:48:24. > :48:28.able to make, introduction of minimum wage. It's about conscious
:48:29. > :48:34.political choices we make. That is where I disagree with the suggestion
:48:35. > :48:37.that somehow we can place all responsibility elsewhere. We have a
:48:38. > :48:41.responsibility. At the moment we are being offered a prospectus by Yes
:48:42. > :48:46.Scotland that says we could have Scandinavian levels of public
:48:47. > :48:54.services and American levels of taxation. It's just not true.
:48:55. > :49:00.The No Campaign have been trying to perpetuate this myth that if we stay
:49:01. > :49:03.in the union then we are going to get the best of both worlds. Do they
:49:04. > :49:15.want to tell that to the thousands of them getting their meals from
:49:16. > :49:18.food banks? The debate seems to have separated people into those that are
:49:19. > :49:21.proud to be Scottish and those that are proud to be Scottish and
:49:22. > :49:31.British. Are we going to separate the British Isles into pieces on
:49:32. > :49:35.such a small minority vote? Mr Alexander, your government, 13
:49:36. > :49:40.years, the poverty and social exclusion report, there was an
:49:41. > :49:46.unbroken rise from 14% poverty in 1983, two 33% in June this year. You
:49:47. > :49:53.have no record to stand on, sir. You caused more poverty, this government
:49:54. > :49:57.continues to cause poverty. Record numbers of children in schools,
:49:58. > :50:05.record number of children out of poverty. Read the report! Yes, the
:50:06. > :50:10.man with the dark shirt? Councils at the vanguard of helping
:50:11. > :50:17.disadvantaged groups, and yet there has been a council tax freeze for
:50:18. > :50:22.four years. Stewart Hosie? The NHS is an issue in this referendum,
:50:23. > :50:28.there is no doubt about it. The resources requirements are rising
:50:29. > :50:34.every year. Reid that's not true! Let's be clear, in Scotland today,
:50:35. > :50:43.because it is independent, we have a record number of nurses and
:50:44. > :50:46.midwives, a record number of consultants, paramedic and dentist
:50:47. > :50:49.numbers are up. The real threat comes from the privatisation and
:50:50. > :50:57.charging down south which would reduce the Scottish Grant and
:50:58. > :51:02.everybody knows it. Let's bring in this woman, I will come to you, the
:51:03. > :51:07.woman that works in the NHS? I work in the NHS, I see specialist nurses,
:51:08. > :51:15.in my field, they are paid... They are down banded and appallingly paid
:51:16. > :51:19.compared to a nurse anywhere in the UK that does the same job. We cannot
:51:20. > :51:27.fill posts in the NHS because the jobs are so unattractive. Why, if
:51:28. > :51:31.you have a postcode lottery to be born in Dundee, should you get less
:51:32. > :51:39.access to nursing, psychologists, than if you were born in Hull or
:51:40. > :51:45.anywhere else in the UK? Quickly, Ruth Davidson. What Stuart just told
:51:46. > :51:49.this audience is simply not true. The IFS have run the numbers.
:51:50. > :51:57.Spending on health in England has gone up by 4.4%. In Scotland it has
:51:58. > :52:01.gone down. To take heat and light out of this and get back to the lady
:52:02. > :52:05.in the front, he said, do you want a more equal society, it is no
:52:06. > :52:10.surprise that we would say no, they would say yes, but listen to people
:52:11. > :52:12.that are independent. There is a reason why the Guardian newspaper
:52:13. > :52:16.wrote its editorial to say that if you want a more equal society across
:52:17. > :52:23.the whole of the UK, you have to vote no. There is a reason why the
:52:24. > :52:27.IFS said if you vote yes there will be ?6 billion of extra cuts to
:52:28. > :52:34.Scotland. Stewart Hosie? That doesn't sound equal to me. What I
:52:35. > :52:38.actually said is if there is a No Vote the Scottish rock will continue
:52:39. > :52:43.to fall until at least 2019. None of us want to see postcode lotteries in
:52:44. > :52:49.terms of NHS provision. I will tell you this, it will come if we follow
:52:50. > :52:55.the model of NHS privatisation, and charging in England. And it is not
:52:56. > :52:58.me that if saying that. It is Andy Burnham, Labour Party Shadow Health
:52:59. > :53:03.Secretary, who has been told to keep his mouth shut today by the Labour
:53:04. > :53:08.Party because he is warning against the risks of NHS privatisation. Can
:53:09. > :53:12.I answer that? I'm not finished, Douglas. If privatisation charging
:53:13. > :53:18.happens England, we know there will be echoed to Scottish funding. -- a
:53:19. > :53:23.cut to Scottish funding. If you could really briefly, we're running
:53:24. > :53:28.out of time, respond to that. My mother worked in the health service
:53:29. > :53:33.in Scotland for 40 years. I don't think somebody working in the health
:53:34. > :53:41.service is a reason to be sighing, incidentally, I think it's a reason
:53:42. > :53:48.to feel proud. Don't you dare try and suggest that my mother's service
:53:49. > :53:53.is something to be sneered at. If I, for a minute, believe that a vote
:53:54. > :53:57.for no was going to deliver the kind of changes Stuart suggested, I would
:53:58. > :54:01.not be recommending a No Vote. The fact is, with the powers that we
:54:02. > :54:05.have in the Scottish Parliament, the capacity to raise taxes or cut them,
:54:06. > :54:09.the fact that we have powers across the piece in terms of funding means
:54:10. > :54:13.that we can guarantee, with a No Vote, a publicly funded, free at the
:54:14. > :54:20.point of need National Health Service in Scotland for ever, or as
:54:21. > :54:25.long as we choose as Scots. Next question and I will come to you.
:54:26. > :54:29.Claire Douglas has the next question. As a young mother, scared
:54:30. > :54:33.and unsure of the consequences of my vote for my child and their
:54:34. > :54:41.children, what is the one thing you can say to me to give you faith in
:54:42. > :54:45.your campaign? Who would you like to ask first? Lane. And we have to be
:54:46. > :54:59.brief. I'm never briefed! I am a mother as well, a grandmother
:55:00. > :55:03.of a 16-week-old baby. My vote for yes is because I want to see a
:55:04. > :55:07.better place for her. I actually believe that if we have the powers
:55:08. > :55:13.and controls here in Scotland, that we can look all of the politicians
:55:14. > :55:17.in the eyes and say, this is the kind of country we want to live in.
:55:18. > :55:23.As I said earlier on, there will be an election in 2016, where every
:55:24. > :55:29.single party will put out their stall. We will decide, for your
:55:30. > :55:32.child, for my grandchild, for all of our children, which party will best
:55:33. > :55:37.represent the needs of the people here.
:55:38. > :55:47.It really does have to be brief at this stage. I am a dad and I want
:55:48. > :55:52.the best for my kids, all of us want the best for Scotland. I believe the
:55:53. > :55:56.best way to guarantee funding for the national health service, for
:55:57. > :56:00.schools and childcare is a No Vote. I also believe we can have the
:56:01. > :56:05.faster, better, safer change that I since most of us in Scotland want to
:56:06. > :56:09.sit with a No Vote and the process of change starting afterwards. I am
:56:10. > :56:14.genuinely worried as to the risks, costs and uncertainties of an
:56:15. > :56:16.irreversible vote on Thursday for my children and children right across
:56:17. > :56:26.Scotland. I would urge you to vote no.
:56:27. > :56:36.I don't want the risks of UK austerity for my daughter. I want
:56:37. > :56:42.the certainty of the Scottish people making the right decisions, not just
:56:43. > :56:45.for my child but for everyone's child within our own nation.
:56:46. > :56:50.Independence is absolutely normal and I want your child and my child
:56:51. > :56:58.to grow up in a normal, independent country.
:56:59. > :57:04.I want the children of Scotland to grow up thinking they can go
:57:05. > :57:08.anywhere, the anything they want to do. There are no horizons. I think
:57:09. > :57:14.we have more opportunities in our country from being one of the
:57:15. > :57:17.countries that leads the world. I am proud of everything we have built
:57:18. > :57:20.together, I am proud of the University network we have, I'm
:57:21. > :57:24.proud of the armed forces we have, I am proud of the consular services
:57:25. > :57:28.selling our goods all around this planet. I am proud of everything we
:57:29. > :57:32.have built together and I am proud of a cradle to grave approach that
:57:33. > :57:35.we take. It is not just children, it is when those children become
:57:36. > :57:41.grandparents, they can be looked after with their pension. That is
:57:42. > :57:47.why I am voting no. I'd like to go back to Clare and ask what she
:57:48. > :57:51.thinks about what she has heard. I feel that the No Vote for me at the
:57:52. > :57:59.moment, surely what we are living in now is the No Vote? We see all of
:58:00. > :58:00.these promises of things, but why have we not already have all of
:58:01. > :58:14.these things? Literally ten seconds. Stop! One of
:58:15. > :58:20.the problems is that so many of our young people have to leave to find
:58:21. > :58:23.work. We don't want that. Thank you. I'm sorry, that is it. The final
:58:24. > :58:29.Referendum Debate before the big day itself is over. Remember, you can
:58:30. > :58:34.follow all of the BBC referendum coverage this week on television,
:58:35. > :58:38.radio and online. My sincere thanks to the panel and the audience. And,
:58:39. > :58:44.indeed, to you at home. Thank you for watching all of these
:58:45. > :58:48.programmes. From Zhures, good night. -- Sterling.