Vice Presidents' Debate live

:00:19. > :00:28.A week after the first Presidential debate between Donald Trump

:00:29. > :00:30.and Hillary Clinton, tonight, it's the turn

:00:31. > :00:34.The two men taking to the stage in Farmville, Virginia,

:00:35. > :00:37.have so far played low key roles in the national campaign.

:00:38. > :00:41.Mike Pence has the job of steadying Mr Trump's campaign,

:00:42. > :00:44.while Tim Kaine will try to maintain Hillary Clinton's momentum.

:00:45. > :00:47.For more on what's at stake, we can cross now to the BBC's

:00:48. > :00:59.I know you have been talking to the campaigns. How do they believe

:01:00. > :01:05.tonight's debate can change the dynamic of the presidential race?

:01:06. > :01:12.Clinton's people were here all day today. They were hammering home the

:01:13. > :01:16.message that they will talk about a positive vision but all the pressure

:01:17. > :01:21.is on Mike Pence. He has to write the ship after a bad week for Donald

:01:22. > :01:27.Trump. He will have to defend Donald Trump's record. They say that

:01:28. > :01:33.usually a vice presidential debate like this is on the presidents. They

:01:34. > :01:37.are making a point that Donald Trump has shown he is not fit to be

:01:38. > :01:41.president. The Donald Trump people have said it is Tim Kaine who will

:01:42. > :01:45.be on the defensive. This comes after comments from Bill Clinton

:01:46. > :01:49.earlier today criticising Obamacare and healthcare reform. They think

:01:50. > :01:54.Timken will have to answer for that. Bill Clinton said it was crazy.

:01:55. > :02:00.Hillary Clinton's people have had to come out and defend the hikes saying

:02:01. > :02:04.that Hillary Clinton has to fix healthcare. I would not be surprised

:02:05. > :02:11.if that is an issue tonight. Donald Trump will not be stage but will be

:02:12. > :02:17.tweeting it live. This will be about the very few undecided voters. How

:02:18. > :02:21.do you expect the two men to be seen in their different ways reaching out

:02:22. > :02:27.to undecided voters? Well, I think they will have to cast as big a tent

:02:28. > :02:33.as possible. Mike Pence will have to appeal particularly to suburban

:02:34. > :02:37.women and educated white voters. These people could be Republican

:02:38. > :02:41.voters and have been in the past but have been straying from the party

:02:42. > :02:46.because of Donald Trump's rhetoric. Tim Kaine on the other hand will

:02:47. > :02:50.have to activate the base and really has to appeal to youthful voters.

:02:51. > :03:00.The island you'll voters and the demographic that was big on Bernie

:03:01. > :03:04.Sanders. -- millennial. Donald Trump will be tweeting this live. There

:03:05. > :03:08.are reports his staff will be surrounding him so I would not

:03:09. > :03:14.expect controversial stuff. Not the 3am cleats we had last Friday.

:03:15. > :03:20.LAUGHING. How about the tone of this debate? These two men are

:03:21. > :03:24.gentlemanly and of deep religious faith. How will the tone contrast to

:03:25. > :03:31.the people at the top of their respective tickets? They are

:03:32. > :03:35.mild-mannered midwesterners. Tim Kaine is a senator from Virginia but

:03:36. > :03:45.grew up in the midwest. Both of them have a reputation of being mellow.

:03:46. > :03:49.His opponent is Conservative. It will be interesting to see how they

:03:50. > :03:53.go after each other. They will have to attack the top of the ticket. It

:03:54. > :03:57.will be a challenge to see if they can break out of their more

:03:58. > :04:02.traditional roles and go on as an attack dog. We will have to wait and

:04:03. > :04:09.see. Anthony, briefly, what is the mood like there inside? Well, there

:04:10. > :04:13.is a whole bunch of very important people. You can see them filtering

:04:14. > :04:20.on down this walkway and piling in on both sides. I think the feeling

:04:21. > :04:24.is that these candidates have their moment to shine. They have been

:04:25. > :04:28.waiting a long time in the shadows and this is their chance to take

:04:29. > :04:33.centre stage. 14 vice presidents went on to become President of the

:04:34. > :04:38.United States, you have to remember that. Thank you. Anthony Zurcher. We

:04:39. > :04:43.can go live to be vice presidential debate now which is being moderated

:04:44. > :04:55.by CBS News. Right now, as we welcome the vice presidents, Tim

:04:56. > :05:07.Kaine and Mike Pence. APPLAUSE. Thank you. It's an honour.

:05:08. > :05:12.Nice to meet you. It is nice to meet you as well.

:05:13. > :05:16.APPLAUSE. Gentlemen, welcome. It truly is a privilege to be with both

:05:17. > :05:23.of you tonight. I would like to start with the topic of presidential

:05:24. > :05:26.leadership. 28 years ago tomorrow night, Lord Benson said the vice

:05:27. > :05:30.presidential debate was not about the qualifications for the vice

:05:31. > :05:34.presidency, but if tragedy should occur, how the vice president could

:05:35. > :05:39.step in without any margin for error, without time for preparation,

:05:40. > :05:44.to take over the biggest job in the world. What about your qualities and

:05:45. > :05:48.your skills and your temperament equipped you to step into that role

:05:49. > :05:56.at the moment poll notice? Senator Tim Kaine. It is great to be back at

:05:57. > :06:01.the university in Farmville, Virginia. This is a special place.

:06:02. > :06:07.65 years ago, a young courageous woman, Barbara Johns, led a walkout

:06:08. > :06:11.of her high school. She made history by protesting school segregation.

:06:12. > :06:18.She believed our nation was stronger together. And that walkout led to

:06:19. > :06:23.the position that moved us down the path to equality. I am so proud to

:06:24. > :06:26.be running with another strong history making woman, Hillary

:06:27. > :06:30.Clinton, to be President of the United States. I am proud because

:06:31. > :06:33.vision of being stronger together, building an economy that works for

:06:34. > :06:37.everyone, not just those at the top, and being safe in the world, not

:06:38. > :06:40.only with a strong military, but also strong alliances to battle

:06:41. > :06:45.terrorism and climate change, and also to build a community of

:06:46. > :06:50.respect, just like a bridge once tried to do 65 his again. That is

:06:51. > :06:54.why I am so proud to be a running mate. Hillary Clinton talked of why

:06:55. > :06:57.she chose me. She said the test of a Hillary Clinton administrative will

:06:58. > :07:02.not be the signing all passing of a bill, it will be whether we can make

:07:03. > :07:06.somebody's life better, a classroom a better learning environment for

:07:07. > :07:10.her school kids and teachers, whether we can make everything safer

:07:11. > :07:15.and results. She said to me, you have been a missionary and a civil

:07:16. > :07:20.rights lawyer, a counsellor and a mayor, a governor, now a US Senator,

:07:21. > :07:24.I think you will help me figure out how to govern this nation, so that

:07:25. > :07:27.we always keep in mind that the success of the administration is the

:07:28. > :07:32.difference we make in peoples lives. That is what I bring to the ticket.

:07:33. > :07:36.That experience, having served at all levels of government. My primary

:07:37. > :07:39.role is to be Hillary Clinton's right-hand supporter as she puts

:07:40. > :07:45.together the best administration possible. I am out of her and I

:07:46. > :07:51.relish that role. I will say this, me and my wife, we trust her with

:07:52. > :07:55.the most important thing in our lives, our son who is deployed right

:07:56. > :07:59.now. We trust her as the man and chief. The thought of Donald Trump

:08:00. > :08:05.as commander-in-chief scares us to death. Mike Pence. First off, thank

:08:06. > :08:09.you to you and the university for the wonderful hospitality and the

:08:10. > :08:14.commission on the presidential basis of. It is humbling to be here. I am

:08:15. > :08:19.surrounded by my wonderful family. It is an honour to be here with you

:08:20. > :08:24.as well, Senator Tim Kaine. I also want to say, thank you to everyone

:08:25. > :08:27.who is listening in the day, who understands what an enormously

:08:28. > :08:32.important time this is in the life of our nation. For the last 7.5

:08:33. > :08:39.years we have seen America's place in the world we can and the economy

:08:40. > :08:43.stifled by more taxes and more regulation and a failing healthcare

:08:44. > :08:48.reform currently known as Obamacare. The American people know that we can

:08:49. > :08:52.make a change of. I want to thank all of you for being with us

:08:53. > :08:56.tonight. Also want to thank Donald Trump for making that call and

:08:57. > :09:00.inviting us to be part of his team. I have to tell you, I am a smalltown

:09:01. > :09:08.boy from a place not different from Farmville. I grew up in the backyard

:09:09. > :09:13.in my farm. We emigrated here with my grandfather's time. We were

:09:14. > :09:18.living in southern Indiana. We built a big name and a business. We race

:09:19. > :09:23.day family. I dream some day of representing my hometown in

:09:24. > :09:27.Washington DC. I never imagined I would get the opportunity to be

:09:28. > :09:31.Governor of the state that I love, let alone sitting on a table like

:09:32. > :09:36.this in this kind of position. To answer your question, I would say

:09:37. > :09:40.that I would hope that if the responsibility ever felt to me in

:09:41. > :09:47.this role, that I would meet it in the way I have responsibilities

:09:48. > :09:51.should I be elected as vice president. That will bring a

:09:52. > :09:56.lifetime of experience to the role, a lifetime growing up in a smalltown

:09:57. > :10:00.and serving in commerce in the United States where I led a speed

:10:01. > :10:05.that works, the great State of Indiana. -- state. I would pray to

:10:06. > :10:12.be able to meet that moment with that lifetime of experience. Senator

:10:13. > :10:14.Tim Kaine, on the campaign trail, you praised Hillary Clinton's

:10:15. > :10:19.character, including her commitment to public service, yet 6% of voters

:10:20. > :10:26.don't think she is trustworthy. Why do so many people distrust to? --

:10:27. > :10:30.60%. Is because of the e-mails and the Clinton Foundation? This is why

:10:31. > :10:35.I trust her. This is what people should look like as a public

:10:36. > :10:41.servant, having a passion in their life that showed up before they were

:10:42. > :10:47.in public life. They have held onto it whether they were in office not.

:10:48. > :10:50.Hillary Clinton had the passion from her childhood, living in the suburbs

:10:51. > :10:55.of Chicago. She was focused on serving others with a special focus

:10:56. > :10:59.on empowering families with children. As a civil rights lawyer

:11:00. > :11:08.in the south with the defence fund of children. And Secretary of State

:11:09. > :11:11.and Senator, no matter what, it has always been about putting others

:11:12. > :11:16.first. Donald Trump puts himself first. He built a business career

:11:17. > :11:20.off the backs of the little guy, as he said. As a candidate, he started

:11:21. > :11:26.his campaign with a speech where he called Mexicans rapists and criminal

:11:27. > :11:31.them. And he has pursued the discredited and outrageous lie that

:11:32. > :11:35.President Obama was not born in the United States. It is so painful to

:11:36. > :11:39.suggest that we go back to the days where an African-American could not

:11:40. > :11:42.be a citizen of the United States. I cannot imagine how Governor Mike

:11:43. > :11:50.Pence could defend this selfish style of Donald Trump. Let me ask

:11:51. > :11:54.you stop EU said Donald Trump is thoughtful, compassionate, and

:11:55. > :11:59.steady. Yet 67% of voters believe he is risky and 65% say he does not

:12:00. > :12:05.have the temperament to be president. Why do so many Americans

:12:06. > :12:09.believe he is so erratic? Let me say first and foremost that you and

:12:10. > :12:13.Hillary Clinton would know a lot about an insult in a campaign. It is

:12:14. > :12:16.really remarkable that at a time when literally, in the wake of

:12:17. > :12:21.Hillary Clinton's tenure as Secretary of State, when she was the

:12:22. > :12:24.architect of the Obama administration's foreign policy, we

:12:25. > :12:31.see anti- portions of the world, including the Middle East, literally

:12:32. > :12:38.spinning out of control. It is a result of the failed foreign policy

:12:39. > :12:46.and weak foreign policy brought about. The new and bold and actions

:12:47. > :12:51.of Russia and the Ukraine... You guys, you have both said but Putin

:12:52. > :12:57.is a better president than President Obama... I want to get back to it.

:12:58. > :13:02.Thank you, Senator... You praised President Putin as a good leader. We

:13:03. > :13:07.do have that coming up here. In the meantime, the question is... It is

:13:08. > :13:11.about your running mates... At a time of great challenge in the life

:13:12. > :13:15.of this nation, when we have weakened America's place in the

:13:16. > :13:20.world and stifled America's economy, the campaign of Hillary Clinton and

:13:21. > :13:25.Tim Kaine has been an avalanche of insults. Getting to the trustworthy

:13:26. > :13:28.question, Donald Trump has built a business through hard times and good

:13:29. > :13:32.times. He has put on an extraordinary business acumen. He

:13:33. > :13:38.has employed tens of thousands of people in this country... And paid

:13:39. > :13:44.very few taxes and lost a billion dollars a year. What about the

:13:45. > :13:48.question? People do not trust Hillary Clinton because they are

:13:49. > :13:52.paying attention. The reality is when she was Secretary of State,

:13:53. > :14:00.come on, she had a Lenten foundation accept in money from foreign

:14:01. > :14:05.governments. You will... Let me talk about this. I am still on my time.

:14:06. > :14:12.Is this a discussion? Will... Governor... Let me talk and finish

:14:13. > :14:17.my sentence. They accept foreign contributions from foreign

:14:18. > :14:21.governments. That was while she was Secretary of State. Well... I get to

:14:22. > :14:26.weigh in on that. Let me say this. Senator... Please. You have an

:14:27. > :14:32.opportunity to respond. Mike Pence does not think the world is going

:14:33. > :14:37.well and will say it is everyone else's fault. Do you? Do you know

:14:38. > :14:42.Osama Bin Laden was alive during her term? We had 175,000 troops employed

:14:43. > :14:49.on the battlefield in Afghanistan and Iran was racing towards nuclear

:14:50. > :14:52.dominance he. Under Secretary Clinton's leadership, she was part

:14:53. > :15:00.of the public safety team that went after and wiped him off the face of

:15:01. > :15:04.the Earth. She made a deal with the Russians to reduce the chemical

:15:05. > :15:08.weapons stockpile and had a tough negotiation around the world to

:15:09. > :15:17.eliminate the Iriney nuclear weapons programme without firing a shot.

:15:18. > :15:25.Eliminated? Yes. And we now have 15,000 troops deployed overseas.

:15:26. > :15:33.To Iraq has been overrun by ISIS. Hillary Clinton failed to negotiate

:15:34. > :15:39.a status of forces agreement. That is incorrect. And so we removed all

:15:40. > :15:45.of our troops from Iraq. And ISIS moved into that vacuum and overran

:15:46. > :15:49.vast areas of Iraq. President Bush said we would leave Iraq at the end

:15:50. > :15:52.of 2011. Iraq did not want our troops to stay and they wouldn't

:15:53. > :15:56.give us the protection of our troops. And guess what. If a nation

:15:57. > :16:02.where our troops are serving does not want us to stay, we are not

:16:03. > :16:05.going to stay. It was a failure of the Secretary of State. There are a

:16:06. > :16:08.lot of people wandering in this country about the economy. Let's

:16:09. > :16:11.turn to the issue of the economy. According to the non-partisan

:16:12. > :16:15.committee for a responsible Federal Budget, neither of your economic

:16:16. > :16:19.plans will reduce the growing $19 trillion gross national debt. In

:16:20. > :16:24.fact, your plans would add even more to it. Both of you were governors

:16:25. > :16:28.who balanced state budgets. Are you concerned that adding more to the

:16:29. > :16:35.debt could be disastrous for the country? I think the fact that under

:16:36. > :16:40.this past administration of which Hillary Clinton is a part we have

:16:41. > :16:44.almost doubled the national debt is atrocious. I am very proud of the

:16:45. > :16:48.fact that I come from a state that works. The State of Indiana has

:16:49. > :16:52.balanced budgets, we cut taxes, we made record investments in education

:16:53. > :16:58.and infrastructure, I still finished my term with $2 billion in a bank.

:16:59. > :17:03.That is a little bit different than when Senator Kaine was governor in

:17:04. > :17:07.Virginia. He tried to raise taxes about $4 billion, he left estate $2

:17:08. > :17:14.billion in the hole. The state of Indiana cut unemployment and a half.

:17:15. > :17:17.He is a very fitting running back Hillary Clinton. It is in the wake

:17:18. > :17:20.of the season where American families are struggling in this

:17:21. > :17:25.economy, under the weight of higher taxes and Obamacare and the war on

:17:26. > :17:28.coal and the stifling avalanche of regulation coming out of this

:17:29. > :17:32.administration, Hillary Clinton and Timken want more of the same. It

:17:33. > :17:36.really is remarkable -- Senator Kaine. They are advocating $1

:17:37. > :17:41.trillion in tax increases, which I get that. You tried to raise taxes

:17:42. > :17:46.in Virginia and were unsuccessful. But $1 trillion in tax increases.

:17:47. > :17:51.More regulation, more of the same war on coal and more of Obamacare

:17:52. > :17:55.which even President Bill Clinton calls are Obamacare up crazy plan,

:17:56. > :18:00.but Hillary Clinton and Senator Kaine want to build on Obamacare.

:18:01. > :18:04.They want to build it into a single player programme, and for all we

:18:05. > :18:07.know Hillary Clinton thinks it is a good start. Donald Trump and I have

:18:08. > :18:12.a plan to get this economy moving again. Just the way it worked in the

:18:13. > :18:16.1980s, just the way it worked in the 1960s, and that is by lowering taxes

:18:17. > :18:21.across the board for working families. Ending the war on coal

:18:22. > :18:23.which is hurting jobs and this economy in Virginia, repealing

:18:24. > :18:29.Obamacare, Lock stock and barrel, and repealing all the executive

:18:30. > :18:33.orders that Obama has signed that are stifling economic growth in this

:18:34. > :18:38.country. We can get America moving again. Put on top of that the kind

:18:39. > :18:42.of trade deals that will put the American worker first and you have a

:18:43. > :18:45.prescription for growth and when you get the economy growing, you can

:18:46. > :18:51.deal with the national debt. When we get back to 3.5 or 4% growth, which

:18:52. > :18:55.Donald Trump's plant will do, then we will have the resources to meet

:18:56. > :18:58.our nation 's needs at home and abroad and we will have the ability

:18:59. > :19:05.to bring down the national debt. Senator Kaine. There is a

:19:06. > :19:09.fundamental choice for the American electorate, you're hired President

:19:10. > :19:14.in Hillary Clinton or you're fired president in Donald Trump. Hillary

:19:15. > :19:17.have a higher plan. The first thing we do is invest in manufacturing

:19:18. > :19:22.infrastructure and research into clean energy jobs of tomorrow.

:19:23. > :19:25.Second thing is we invest in our workforce. From pre- kindergarten

:19:26. > :19:29.education the great teachers to debt free college and tuition free

:19:30. > :19:33.college for families that make less than $125,000 a year. Third, we

:19:34. > :19:37.promote fairness by raising the minimum wage so you can't work

:19:38. > :19:41.full-time and be under the poverty level, and by paying women equal pay

:19:42. > :19:45.for equal work. Fourth, we promote small business growth, just as we

:19:46. > :19:48.have done in Virginia, to make it easier to start and grow small

:19:49. > :19:52.businesses. Hillary and I each grew up in small business families. A

:19:53. > :19:56.father, who worked in a welding shop, is here tonight. Fifth we have

:19:57. > :19:59.a tax plan which targets tax relief to middle-class individuals and

:20:00. > :20:03.small businesses and asked those from the very top who have benefited

:20:04. > :20:10.as we have come out of a recession to pay more. The Trump plan is a

:20:11. > :20:14.different plan, it is a you're fired plan. Donald Trump said wages are

:20:15. > :20:17.too high and both Donald Trump and Governor Pence think we should

:20:18. > :20:21.eliminate the minimum wage. Governor Pence, when he was in Congress,

:20:22. > :20:28.voted against raising them minimum wage above $5.15. He has been a

:20:29. > :20:32.1-man bull walk against minimum wage increases in Indiana. The second

:20:33. > :20:36.component is massive tax breaks for the very top. Trillions of dollars

:20:37. > :20:40.of tax breaks from people just like Donald Trump. The problem with this,

:20:41. > :20:44.Elaine, is that is exactly what we did ten years ago and it put the

:20:45. > :20:48.economy into the deepest recession, the deepest recession since the

:20:49. > :20:53.1930s. Independent analysts say the Clinton plan would grow the economy

:20:54. > :20:58.10.5 million jobs. The Trump plan would cost 3.5 billion jobs. And why

:20:59. > :21:02.would he do this? His tax plan basically helps him, and if he ever

:21:03. > :21:07.met his promise and gave his tax returns to the American public like

:21:08. > :21:11.he said he would, we would see just much his economic plan is really a

:21:12. > :21:20.Trump first plan. On that point, Governor Pence, the New York Times

:21:21. > :21:25.recently revealed part of Mr Trump's tax return. Yesterday Mr Trump said

:21:26. > :21:29.he brilliantly as the laws to pay as little tax as legally possible. Does

:21:30. > :21:41.that seem fair to you? First, let me say I appreciated the you're fired,

:21:42. > :21:45.you're hired thing, your using a lot of pre- done lines. What you all

:21:46. > :21:51.heard out there is more taxes. $2 trillion in more spending, more

:21:52. > :21:55.deficits, more debt, more government. And if you think that is

:21:56. > :21:59.all working, then you look at the other side of the table. The truth

:22:00. > :22:02.of the matter is, the policies of this administration, which Hillary

:22:03. > :22:08.Clinton and Senator Kaine want to continue, have run this economy into

:22:09. > :22:11.a ditch. We are in the slowest economic recovery since the great

:22:12. > :22:15.depression. 15 million new jobs? Berra millions more living in

:22:16. > :22:18.poverty today than the day when Barack Obama was Hillary Clinton by

:22:19. > :22:21.his side stepped into the Oval Office. We have the lowest... In the

:22:22. > :22:28.economy improved dramatically in 2014 and 2015. Honestly, Senator,

:22:29. > :22:32.you can roll out the numbers and the Sunnyside, at people in Scranton

:22:33. > :22:38.know differently. This economy is struggling. The answer to this

:22:39. > :22:42.economy is not more taxes, it is not more spending... It is not giving

:22:43. > :22:46.tax relief to the folks at the top. I am interested to hear whether he

:22:47. > :22:51.will defend his running mate's not paying taxes. Governor, with all due

:22:52. > :22:56.respect, the question was whether it seems fair to you that you're

:22:57. > :22:59.running mate use the tax laws to pay as little tax as possible. This is

:23:00. > :23:05.probably the difference between Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, and

:23:06. > :23:09.Senator Kaine. And God bless you, career public servants, that's

:23:10. > :23:11.great. Donald Trump is a businessman, not a career

:23:12. > :23:15.politician. He actually built a business. The tax returns that came

:23:16. > :23:20.out publicly this week showed that he faced some pretty tough times 20

:23:21. > :23:24.years ago. But like virtually every other business including the New

:23:25. > :23:28.York Times not too long ago, he uses what is called a net operating loss.

:23:29. > :23:33.We have a tax code, Senator, that actually designed to encourage

:23:34. > :23:37.entrepreneurship in his country. Why won't he released his tax returns?

:23:38. > :23:41.We are answering a question about the business thing. His tax return

:23:42. > :23:44.showed he went through a very difficult time, but he used the tax

:23:45. > :23:48.code just to whet supposed to be used and he did it brilliantly. How

:23:49. > :23:52.do you know that? You haven't seen his tax returns. Because he has

:23:53. > :23:57.created a business that's worth billions of dollars. How do you know

:23:58. > :24:01.that? With regard to him not paying taxes and people saying he didn't

:24:02. > :24:06.pay tax for years, Donald Trump has created tens of thousands of jobs,

:24:07. > :24:10.and he has paid payroll taxes, sales taxes, property taxes... Senator, I

:24:11. > :24:14.will give you 30 seconds to respond and I have a question on social

:24:15. > :24:18.Security. Donald Trump started this campaign in 2014 and said if I run

:24:19. > :24:24.for president I will absolutely release taxes. He has broken his

:24:25. > :24:28.first promise. It he hasn't broken his promise. He stood on the stage

:24:29. > :24:35.last week and when Hillary said you haven't been paying taxes he said

:24:36. > :24:39.that makes me smart. So it not to favour a military, its might not

:24:40. > :24:43.have the veterans, it is not not to pay for teachers, and I guess all of

:24:44. > :24:47.us who do pay for those things, I guess we are stupid. Do you get the

:24:48. > :24:52.deductions are entitled to? I do. Governor Pence had to give Donald

:24:53. > :24:55.Trump his tax returns to show he was qualified to be vice president.

:24:56. > :24:59.Donald Trump must give the American public is tax returns to show he is

:25:00. > :25:03.qualified to be president and he is breaking his promise. Elaine, I have

:25:04. > :25:07.to respond to this. You get very little time, 20 seconds. Donald

:25:08. > :25:12.Trump has filed over 100 pages of financial disclosure, which is what

:25:13. > :25:16.the law requires. He said he would release is taxes. Senator, he is

:25:17. > :25:21.going to release his tax returns when the audit is over. Richard

:25:22. > :25:26.Nixon released tax returns when he was under audit. If you can't beat

:25:27. > :25:30.Nixon's standard... The people at home cannot understand either one of

:25:31. > :25:33.you when you speak of each other! I would please ask you to wait until

:25:34. > :25:39.it is that the other is finished. All right, we're having fun appear.

:25:40. > :25:43.The issue of social security. In 18 years when the Social Security trust

:25:44. > :25:45.fund is run out of money you will be 76. The committee for the

:25:46. > :25:49.responsible Budget estimates your benefits could be cut by as much as

:25:50. > :25:54.$7,500 per year. What would your administration do to prevent this

:25:55. > :25:58.cut? First, we're going to protect Social Security which is one of the

:25:59. > :26:01.greatest programmes that the American government has ever done.

:26:02. > :26:04.It happened at a time when you would work your whole life, your whole

:26:05. > :26:08.life, raising your kids, working, Little League coach a Sunday school

:26:09. > :26:11.teacher, and many would retire into poverty. And Social Security has

:26:12. > :26:16.enabled people to retire with dignity and overwhelmingly not in

:26:17. > :26:19.poverty. We have to keep a solvent and we will keep its solvent and we

:26:20. > :26:23.will look for strategies like adjusting the payroll tax cap

:26:24. > :26:27.upwards in order to do that. Here is what Hillary and I will not do. And

:26:28. > :26:32.I want to make this very clear. We will never, ever, engage in a risky

:26:33. > :26:36.scheme to privatise Social Security. Donald Trump wrote a book and he

:26:37. > :26:41.said Social Security is a 'Ponzi' scheme, and privatisation would be

:26:42. > :26:45.good for all of us. And when Governor Pence was in Congress, he

:26:46. > :26:48.was the chief cheerleader for the privatisation of Social Security.

:26:49. > :26:53.Even after President Bush stopped pushing for it, Governor Pence kept

:26:54. > :26:55.pushing for it. We are going to stand up against efforts to

:26:56. > :26:59.privatise Social Security, and we will look for ways to keep it

:27:00. > :27:04.solvent going forward, focusing primarily on the payroll tax cut.

:27:05. > :27:09.Governor Pence, I will give you an opportunity to respond. Thanks,

:27:10. > :27:14.Elaine. There they go again. Look at... What Donald Trump and I have

:27:15. > :27:18.said about Social Security is we are going to meet our obligations to our

:27:19. > :27:21.seniors. We are going to be the odd legations of Medicare. That is what

:27:22. > :27:25.this campaign is really about, Senator. This is the old scare

:27:26. > :27:31.tactic that they roll out. You have record, governor. And I get all of

:27:32. > :27:36.that. There was a question that you asked a little bit earlier... I have

:27:37. > :27:40.to go back to. Well, look, you are running with Hillary Clinton, who

:27:41. > :27:44.wants to raise taxes by $1 trillion, increase spending by $2 trillion.

:27:45. > :27:48.And you say you are going to keep the promises of Social Security.

:27:49. > :27:55.Donald Trump and I are going to cut taxes, we are going to... You are

:27:56. > :27:58.not going to cut taxes. So we can meet the obligations were Social

:27:59. > :28:04.Security and Medicare. If we stay on the path your party has a song, we

:28:05. > :28:07.are going to be in a mountain range of debt and we are going to face

:28:08. > :28:11.hard choices. You asked this question about debt and the debt

:28:12. > :28:15.explosion on the Trump plan is much bigger than anything on the Clintons

:28:16. > :28:17.side. Let me move on to the issue of law enforcement and race relations.

:28:18. > :28:22.Law enforcement and race relations. After the Dallas police shooting,

:28:23. > :28:26.police chief David Brown said, quote, we are asking cops to do too

:28:27. > :28:31.much in this country. Every societal failure, we put it on the cops to

:28:32. > :28:35.solve. Not enough mental health funding, not enough drug addiction

:28:36. > :28:40.funding, schools fail, let's give it to the cops. Do we asked too much of

:28:41. > :28:47.police officers in this country, and how would you specifically address

:28:48. > :28:52.the chief's concerns? I think that is a very fair comment. We put a lot

:28:53. > :28:56.on police officers. I have a lot of scar tissue and experience in this.

:28:57. > :28:59.I was a city councillor in Richmond and we had one of the highest

:29:00. > :29:03.homicide rates in the United States. We fought very hard and because of

:29:04. > :29:06.my time in local office within the police Department, and we reduced

:29:07. > :29:10.our homicide rate nearly in half and when I was Governor we worked hard

:29:11. > :29:14.as well. And we did something we had really wanted to do. For the first

:29:15. > :29:18.time ever we cracked the top ten safest states, because we worked

:29:19. > :29:22.together. Here is what I learned as a man and the Governor. The way you

:29:23. > :29:26.make communities safer and way you make police safer is through

:29:27. > :29:30.community policing. You build the bonds between the community and the

:29:31. > :29:33.police force. Build bonds of understanding. And then, when people

:29:34. > :29:37.feel comfortable in their communities, that gap between police

:29:38. > :29:41.and the communities they serve narrows, and when that gap narrows

:29:42. > :29:45.it is safer for the communities and safer for the police. That model

:29:46. > :29:49.still works across our country, but there are some other models that

:29:50. > :29:52.don't work. An overly aggressive, more militarised model. Donald Trump

:29:53. > :29:57.recently said we need to do more stop and frisk around the country.

:29:58. > :29:59.That would be a big mistake, because it polarises the relationship

:30:00. > :30:04.between the police and the community. So here is what we will

:30:05. > :30:07.do. We will focus on community policing, we will focus on... And

:30:08. > :30:11.Hillary Clinton has rolled out a really competent if mental health

:30:12. > :30:13.reform package that we will worked on with law enforcement

:30:14. > :30:18.professionals, and we will also fight the scourge of gun violence in

:30:19. > :30:23.the United States. I am a gun owner, I am a strong second amendment

:30:24. > :30:27.supporter, but I've got a lot of scar tissue because when I was

:30:28. > :30:30.Governor in Virginia there was a horrible shooting at Virginia Tech,

:30:31. > :30:33.and we learn through that painful situation that gaps in the

:30:34. > :30:36.background record check system could have prevented that crime. We are

:30:37. > :30:40.going to work to do things like close background record checks and

:30:41. > :30:44.if we do we won't have the tragedy is that we did. One of those killed

:30:45. > :30:47.at Virginia Tech was a 70 plus -year-old Romanian Holocaust

:30:48. > :30:51.survivor. He had survived the Holocaust, then he survived the

:30:52. > :30:55.soviet union takeover of his country, but then he was a visiting

:30:56. > :30:59.professor at Virginia Tech and he couldn't survive the scourge of gun

:31:00. > :31:02.violence. We can support the second Amendment and do things like

:31:03. > :31:04.background record checks that make us safer, and that will make police

:31:05. > :31:19.safer as well. My uncle was a cop in Chicago. He

:31:20. > :31:25.was my hero. When we visit my dad's family in Chicago we would marvel at

:31:26. > :31:30.him, me and my three brothers. We would say police officers are the

:31:31. > :31:34.best of us. Men and women, white, African American, Asian, Hispanic,

:31:35. > :31:41.they put their lives on the line every single day. Let me say that,

:31:42. > :31:50.at the risk of... At the risk of agreeing with you, community

:31:51. > :31:55.policing is great. Donald Trump and I want to make sure we have the

:31:56. > :32:00.resources and tools to be able to restore will and order to the cities

:32:01. > :32:06.and communities of this nation. That is probably why the 330,000 members

:32:07. > :32:12.of the fraternity order of the police supported Donald Trump as the

:32:13. > :32:17.next president because they see his commitment to them and law and

:32:18. > :32:23.order. They also hear the badmouthing that comes from people

:32:24. > :32:29.that seize upon tragedy in the wake of police action shootings as a

:32:30. > :32:34.reason to use a broad brush to accuse law enforcement of implicit

:32:35. > :32:40.bias or institutional racism. And that really has got to stop. I mean,

:32:41. > :32:53.when an African-American police officer in Charlotte, an all-star

:32:54. > :32:57.football player who went to LIberty University, and joined the force of

:32:58. > :33:02.Charlotte, he was involved in a police action shootings taking the

:33:03. > :33:09.life of Keith Lamont Scott that was a tragedy. We mourn for those and

:33:10. > :33:12.grieve and are saddened at the loss of life. But Hillary Clinton

:33:13. > :33:17.referred to that moment as an example of implicit bias in the

:33:18. > :33:21.police force. When she was asked in the debate a week ago whether there

:33:22. > :33:25.was implicit bias in law enforcement, her only answer was

:33:26. > :33:32.there was implicit bias in everyone in the United States... And I

:33:33. > :33:37.explained that... We have to stop seizing on moments of tragedy. We

:33:38. > :33:41.need a transparent investigation whenever there is a loss of life

:33:42. > :33:46.because of police action. But, senator, please, enough of this

:33:47. > :33:50.seeking every opportunity to demean law enforcement broadly by making

:33:51. > :33:56.accusations that there is implicit bias whenever tragedy occurs. People

:33:57. > :34:01.should not be afraid to bring up bias in law enforcement. I am not

:34:02. > :34:04.afraid to bring that up. If you are afraid to have that discussion you

:34:05. > :34:11.will never solve that. We agree this is a heartbreaking example. The die

:34:12. > :34:18.who was killed in Saint Paul. He was a worker, a valued worker in a local

:34:19. > :34:23.school. And he was killed for no apparent reason in an incident that

:34:24. > :34:27.will be discussed and investigated. But when people went and explore the

:34:28. > :34:35.situation what they found was that the... They called him Mr Rogers in

:34:36. > :34:40.the school. The children loved him. Police stopped him 40- 50 times

:34:41. > :34:44.before that fatal incident. African Americans in this country get

:34:45. > :34:51.sentenced for the same crimes at different rates. We need justice

:34:52. > :34:57.reform... That we do. But I want to say that we should be able to bring

:34:58. > :35:03.up bias in the system. Otherwise we will never solve the system

:35:04. > :35:06.problems. Those involved in a police action shootings on the an

:35:07. > :35:12.African-American, white would Hillary Clinton accused that

:35:13. > :35:17.African-American... I can't believe that you are saying there is no

:35:18. > :35:21.bias. I have a question on that point. Senator Tim Scott, who with

:35:22. > :35:26.African American, recently spoke on the Senate floor. Said he was

:35:27. > :35:30.stopped seven times by law enforcement in one year. He said I

:35:31. > :35:36.have sold the anger and frustration and sadness of the humiliation that

:35:37. > :35:40.comes with feeling like you are being targeted for nothing more than

:35:41. > :35:47.being just yourself. -- felt. What would you say to Senator Scott about

:35:48. > :35:52.his experience? I have the deepest sympathy for him and he is a close

:35:53. > :35:56.friend. What I would say is that we need criminal justice reform

:35:57. > :36:00.nationally. I signed criminal justice report in the State of

:36:01. > :36:06.Indiana and we are proud about that. I worked when I was in Congress

:36:07. > :36:09.about a Second Chance Act We need a better job of recognising and

:36:10. > :36:15.correcting the error is in the system that you reflect

:36:16. > :36:20.institutional bias and criminal justice issues. -- do. But what

:36:21. > :36:24.Donald Trump and I are saying is let's not have the reflects of

:36:25. > :36:29.assuming the worst of men and women in law enforcement. We truly believe

:36:30. > :36:34.that it is... Well... What would you say to Senator Scott? Law

:36:35. > :36:38.enforcement in this country is a force for good. They are truly

:36:39. > :36:45.people who put their lives on the line every single day. But I would

:36:46. > :36:49.suggest to you we need to assert a stronger leadership at a national

:36:50. > :36:56.level to support law enforcement. You just saw Senator Tim Kaine

:36:57. > :37:02.reject stop and fresco. Those living in inner cities that are besieged by

:37:03. > :37:08.crime... What would you tell Senator Scott? I have heard that eloquent

:37:09. > :37:12.plea. Criminal justice system about respecting the law and being

:37:13. > :37:16.respected by the law. It is a respect issue. I want to talk about

:37:17. > :37:22.the tone. Donald Trump during this campaign has called Mexicans rapists

:37:23. > :37:26.and criminals and he has called women slobs and dogs and they are

:37:27. > :37:31.disgusting, which I don't like saying in front of people. The

:37:32. > :37:34.attack a Federal judge saying they were unqualified in a photo role

:37:35. > :37:40.lawsuit because it parents were Mexican. -- he attacked. He went

:37:41. > :37:53.after John McCain, a POW, and said he was not a hero because he was

:37:54. > :37:58.captured. And he perverted a lie about President Obama not being

:37:59. > :38:02.American. You cannot have someone at the top like this. I cannot believe

:38:03. > :38:07.that Mike Pence will defend this in sort driven campaign that he is

:38:08. > :38:11.running. -- insult. Now, immigration. You're running mates

:38:12. > :38:15.have both said that undocumented immigrants who have committed

:38:16. > :38:19.violent crimes should be deported. What would you tell the millions of

:38:20. > :38:25.undocumented immigrants who have not committed violent crimes? Donald

:38:26. > :38:28.Trump has laid out a plan to end legal immigration once and for all

:38:29. > :38:33.in this country. We have been targeted to death for 20 years.

:38:34. > :38:38.Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine want to continue this campaign of

:38:39. > :38:44.Amnesty, century cities, all of the things that are driving wages down

:38:45. > :38:50.in this country. -- sanctuary cities. And often, it is bringing

:38:51. > :38:56.heartbreak with criminal immigrants in this country. Donald Trump has a

:38:57. > :39:00.plan which he laid out in Arizona that will deal systematically with

:39:01. > :39:05.illegal immigration, beginning with border security and internal

:39:06. > :39:13.security. It is the first time in Immigration and Customs enforcement

:39:14. > :39:20.that they have supported Donald Trump. He has laid out a priority to

:39:21. > :39:24.remove criminal aliens and have these are checks. Once we have

:39:25. > :39:27.accomplished all of that which will strengthen our economy and

:39:28. > :39:31.strengthen the rule of law in the country and make communities safer

:39:32. > :39:34.once the criminal aliens are round the more we will deal with those

:39:35. > :39:38.that remain. But I have to say, I was listening to the avalanche of

:39:39. > :39:44.insults coming from Senator Tim Kaine... These were Donald Trump...

:39:45. > :39:52.Well... Hold on a second, it is my turn. It is your turn. I forgive

:39:53. > :39:57.you. He called it an insult-driven campaign. Did you hear that? Our

:39:58. > :40:05.campaign is an insult-driven campaign? Have you heard anything

:40:06. > :40:13.like it? Donald Trump may have said some insults but Hillary Clinton

:40:14. > :40:16.said half our supporters are a basket of deplorable is. She said

:40:17. > :40:28.they were irredeemable and not American. It is extraordinary. She

:40:29. > :40:31.laid one after another -ism on millions of Americans who believe we

:40:32. > :40:35.can be stronger at home and abroad and can end illegal immigration once

:40:36. > :40:45.and for all. So, Senator Tim Kaine, this campaign, that is small

:40:46. > :40:53.potatoes compared to Hillary Clinton's insults. The very next day

:40:54. > :40:57.she said she should not have said that. So now we are even. Look for

:40:58. > :41:05.Donald Trump apologising to John McCain for saying he was not a hero?

:41:06. > :41:10.Did he apologise for calling women slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting? It is

:41:11. > :41:21.his two minutes. Did Donald Trump apologise for taking on someone in

:41:22. > :41:27.the Twitter world and calling her overweight, saying African-Americans

:41:28. > :41:31.are held, saying President Obama is not American? You will never see him

:41:32. > :41:35.apologise. Immigration, Hillary Clinton and I believe in

:41:36. > :41:42.comprehensive immigration reform. He believes in a deportation nation.

:41:43. > :41:48.Choose your choice. Reform that will keep families together as the top

:41:49. > :41:53.goal. Second, it will help focus enforcement efforts on those who are

:41:54. > :41:57.violent. Third, more border control, and a path to citizenship is the

:41:58. > :42:03.fourth for those you pay taxes and work hard and take background record

:42:04. > :42:07.checks. That is the proposal. Donald Trump proposes to deport 60 million

:42:08. > :42:11.people, 11 million here without documents. Both Donald Trump and

:42:12. > :42:15.Mike Pence want to get rid of birthright citizenship. If you are

:42:16. > :42:18.born here but don't have documents for your parents, they want to

:42:19. > :42:23.eliminate that, 4.5 million people. They called it deportation forced.

:42:24. > :42:28.They want to go house-to-house, schools and school, business to

:42:29. > :42:33.business, and kick out 16 million people. I cannot believe... That is

:42:34. > :42:37.nonsense. I can't believe Mike Pence would defend his running mate's

:42:38. > :42:41.claim we should have a deportation force so they will all be gone. We

:42:42. > :42:46.have a deportation force, Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

:42:47. > :42:49.The union for Immigration and Customs Enforcement for the first

:42:50. > :42:52.time in their history have endorsed the Donald Trump to be the next

:42:53. > :42:57.President of the United States. Senator, that is nonsense. What you

:42:58. > :43:04.just heard is they have a plan for open borders, Amnesty... Our plan is

:43:05. > :43:10.like the plan of Ronald Reagan from light and 86. We know the routine.

:43:11. > :43:15.It is Amnesty. You heard one of the last things he mentioned, border

:43:16. > :43:20.security. That is how Washington always plays it. Please... Governor

:43:21. > :43:25.pence was against it. Donald Trump has said... A nation without borders

:43:26. > :43:31.is not a nation. Donald Trump wants to restore the borders of this

:43:32. > :43:35.nation. How would the millions of undocumented immigrants leave? Would

:43:36. > :43:41.be be forced out? Donald Trump laid out a series of orders that begins

:43:42. > :43:46.with border security. After we secure the border and not only build

:43:47. > :43:50.a wall but beneath the ground and in the air do internal enforcement, we

:43:51. > :43:53.will focus on criminal aliens. We just had a conversation about law

:43:54. > :43:58.enforcement and we just had a conversation about the violence in

:43:59. > :44:02.our cities. The reality is that there is heartbreak and tragedy that

:44:03. > :44:06.is striking American families because people that came into this

:44:07. > :44:12.country illegally are now involved in criminal enterprise in activity

:44:13. > :44:15.and we don't have the resources or the will to deport them

:44:16. > :44:18.systematically. Donald Trump said he will move those people out and

:44:19. > :44:23.people who have overstayed their visas, we are going to reinforce the

:44:24. > :44:26.law of this country. We will strengthen Immigration and Customs

:44:27. > :44:30.Enforcement with more personnel to be able to do that. And then Donald

:44:31. > :44:34.Trump has made it clear that once we have done all of those things, we

:44:35. > :44:39.are going to reform the immigration system that we have where people can

:44:40. > :44:43.come into this country. That is the order in which you should do it.

:44:44. > :44:48.Border security, removing criminal aliens. Upholding the law. Then,

:44:49. > :44:52.Senator Tim Kaine, when you go back to the Senate, we will work with you

:44:53. > :44:56.to reform the immigration system. I look forward to working together

:44:57. > :45:01.whatever capacities we serve in. But want to make it clear, he is trying

:45:02. > :45:05.to change what Donald Trump said. Donald Trump looked the audience of

:45:06. > :45:11.Phoenix in the eye and said we are building a wall and are deporting

:45:12. > :45:15.everybody and he said they will all be gone. You could just go to the

:45:16. > :45:22.tape on it and see what Donald Trump has said.

:45:23. > :45:30.And to add to it, we are a nation of immigrants. Governor Pence and I are

:45:31. > :45:34.both from immigrant families. Some people said some not so nice things

:45:35. > :45:37.about the Irish when they came but we have done well by absorbing

:45:38. > :45:41.immigrants and it has made our nation stronger. When Donald Trump

:45:42. > :45:45.has said Mexicans are rapists and criminals, Mexican immigrants, he

:45:46. > :45:48.said that his judge was unqualified, unqualified to hear a case because

:45:49. > :45:53.his parents were Mexican. I can't imagine how you could defend that. I

:45:54. > :45:58.would like to shift now to the threat of terrorism. Do you think

:45:59. > :46:01.the world today is a safer or more dangerous place than it was eight

:46:02. > :46:07.years ago? Has the terrorist threat increased or decreased? The

:46:08. > :46:16.terrorist threat has decreased in some ways, because Bin Laden is

:46:17. > :46:21.dead, and Irani and nuclear weapons programme has stopped, the threat

:46:22. > :46:25.the United States troops has decreased, because there are only

:46:26. > :46:28.15,000 deployed, but other parts of the world are challenging. To be

:46:29. > :46:33.terrorism there is only one candidate who can do it, and it is

:46:34. > :46:38.Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton was the Senator from New York on 9/11,

:46:39. > :46:42.she was at the World Trade Center when they were searching for victims

:46:43. > :46:47.and survivors, that seared upon her the need to be terrorism. And she

:46:48. > :46:50.has a plan to do it. She was part of the National security team that

:46:51. > :46:54.wiped out Bin Laden. Here is her plan to defeat ISIS. First we need

:46:55. > :46:58.to take out their leaders on the battlefield. She was part of the

:46:59. > :47:02.team that got Bin Laden and she will be part of the team that gets ahead

:47:03. > :47:07.of ISIS. We have to disrupt their financing networks, disrupt their

:47:08. > :47:10.ability to recruit on the internet in their safe havens, at fourth, we

:47:11. > :47:14.also have to work with allies to share and surge intelligence. That

:47:15. > :47:20.is the Hillary Clinton plan, and she has the experience to do it. Donald

:47:21. > :47:23.Trump can't start a Twitter war with Miss Universe, without shooting

:47:24. > :47:28.himself in the foot. He doesn't have a plan. He said I have a secret

:47:29. > :47:33.plan, and then he said I know more than all the generals about ISIS,

:47:34. > :47:37.and then he said I am going to call the generals to help me figure out a

:47:38. > :47:41.plan, and finally he said I'm going to fire all the generals. He doesn't

:47:42. > :47:46.have a plan, but he does have dangerous ideas. Here are four. He

:47:47. > :47:49.trashed talks the military, John McCain is no hero, the generals need

:47:50. > :47:54.to be fired and I know more than them. He wants to tear up alliances.

:47:55. > :47:57.Nato is obsolete and we will only work together with Israel if they

:47:58. > :48:05.paid big league. Third, he loves dictators. He has a personal rout --

:48:06. > :48:12.Mt Rushmore, Gaddafi, Hussein, Putin... And lastly, Donald Trump

:48:13. > :48:16.believes the world will be safer if more nations have nuclear weapons.

:48:17. > :48:20.He said Saudi Arabia should get them, Japan should get them, Korea

:48:21. > :48:25.should get them, and when he was confronted with this and told wait a

:48:26. > :48:29.minute, terrorists could get those, proliferation could lead to nuclear

:48:30. > :48:34.war, Donald Trump said, and I quote, go ahead, folks, enjoy yourselves. I

:48:35. > :48:37.would like to hear Governor Pence tell me what is so enjoyable or

:48:38. > :48:42.comical about nuclear war. Did you work on that one long-time? To Mac

:48:43. > :48:47.that had a lot of really creative lines in it. Let's see if you can

:48:48. > :48:50.defend any of them. I can make it very clear to the American people.

:48:51. > :48:54.After travelling millions of miles as our Secretary of State, after

:48:55. > :48:58.being the architect of the foreign policy of this administration,

:48:59. > :49:02.America is less safe today than it was the day that Barack Obama became

:49:03. > :49:06.president of the United States. It is absolutely inarguable. We have

:49:07. > :49:10.weakened America's place in the world. It has been accommodation of

:49:11. > :49:15.factors, but mostly it has been a lack of leadership. I will give you,

:49:16. > :49:21.and I was in Washington, DC on 9/11, I saw the clouds of smoke rising

:49:22. > :49:26.from the Pentagon. I was in Virginia. We all live through that

:49:27. > :49:32.day as a nation, it was heartbreaking and I want to give

:49:33. > :49:36.this president credit for the bringing Osama Bin Laden to justice,

:49:37. > :49:40.but the truth is, Osama Bin Laden led Al Qaeda. The primary threat

:49:41. > :49:43.today is ISIS and because Hillary Clinton failed to renegotiate a

:49:44. > :49:48.status of forces agreement which would have allowed some American

:49:49. > :49:53.combat troops to remain in Iraq and secure the hardfought gains the

:49:54. > :49:57.American soldier had one by 2009, ISIS was able to be literally

:49:58. > :50:02.conjured up out of the desert. It has overrun vast areas, that the

:50:03. > :50:08.American soldier had one in operation Iraqi Freedom. My heart

:50:09. > :50:12.breaks for the likes of the lance corporal who fell in 2005 in

:50:13. > :50:16.Falluja. He fought hard through some of the most difficult days in

:50:17. > :50:22.operation Iraqi Freedom, and he paid the ultimate sacrifice to defend our

:50:23. > :50:27.freedom and secure that nation. And that nation was secured in 2009, at

:50:28. > :50:32.Dick is Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama failed to provide a status of

:50:33. > :50:36.forces agreement and leave sufficient forces in there, we are

:50:37. > :50:41.back at war. The President has just ordered more troops on the ground.

:50:42. > :50:44.We are back at war in Iraq and the young man, whose mum would always

:50:45. > :50:49.come to events in Newcastle, Indiana, to see me, would always

:50:50. > :50:52.give me a hug and state we are never going to forget your son and we

:50:53. > :50:59.never will. The sacrifices the American soldiers were made were

:51:00. > :51:04.squandered in Iraq because the American leadership created a

:51:05. > :51:11.situation which allowed ISIS to thrive. $150 billion to the mullahs,

:51:12. > :51:16.you didn't stop the nuclear weapons programme. Yes, we did. Even the

:51:17. > :51:19.Israeli military says it stopped. You have guaranteed they will become

:51:20. > :51:24.a nuclear power, because there are no limitations once the treaty comes

:51:25. > :51:29.off. Governor Pence has proposed extreme vetting from parts of the

:51:30. > :51:32.world which support terrorism, but that does not address many of the

:51:33. > :51:36.recent attacks in the United States such as Orlando nightclub massacre

:51:37. > :51:40.and the recent bombings in New York and New Jersey. Those were

:51:41. > :51:44.home-grown, committed by US citizens and legal residents. What specific

:51:45. > :51:50.tools would you use to prevent those kinds of attacks? I think it is a

:51:51. > :51:55.great question, Elaine. But it really does begin with us reforming

:51:56. > :51:59.our immigration system and putting the interests, particularly the

:52:00. > :52:02.safety and the security of the American people, first. Donald Trump

:52:03. > :52:06.has called for extreme vetting for people coming into this country so

:52:07. > :52:10.that we don't ring people into the United States who are hostile to our

:52:11. > :52:15.Bill of Rights and freedoms, who are hostile to the American way of life,

:52:16. > :52:19.but Donald Trump and I are committed to suspending the Syrian refugee

:52:20. > :52:23.programme, and programmes and emigration from areas of the world

:52:24. > :52:26.that have been Komla Mize by terrorism. Hillary Clinton and

:52:27. > :52:31.Senator Kaine want to increase the Syrian refugee programme by 500,000.

:52:32. > :52:36.The question is about home-grown terrorism. But first let's make sure

:52:37. > :52:39.we are putting safety and security of American people first instead of

:52:40. > :52:43.Hillary Clinton expanding... Or instead of you violating the

:52:44. > :52:47.Constitution by blocking people based on a national origin rather

:52:48. > :52:51.than whether they are dangerous. That is absolutely false. That is

:52:52. > :52:55.what the seven circuit decided. We have different views on refugee

:52:56. > :52:59.issues and on immigration. Hillary and I want to do enforcement based

:53:00. > :53:04.on our people dangerous? These guys say all Mexicans are bad, and with

:53:05. > :53:08.respect to refugees, we want to keep people out of our dangerous. Donald

:53:09. > :53:12.Trump said keep them out if they are Muslim. Governor Pence put a

:53:13. > :53:15.programme in place to keep them out if they are from Syria and yesterday

:53:16. > :53:19.an appellate court with three Republican judges struck down the

:53:20. > :53:22.Governor Pence plan and said it was the Scrivener Tory. You should focus

:53:23. > :53:26.upon danger, not upon discrimination. Low Mac those judges

:53:27. > :53:32.said it was because there wasn't any evidence yet that ISIS had

:53:33. > :53:38.infiltrated the United States. Germany just arrested three Syrian

:53:39. > :53:44.refugees... They told you there was a right and wrong way to do it. If

:53:45. > :53:49.you are going to be critical of me on that, that is fair game. After

:53:50. > :53:54.two Syrian refugees were involved in the attack on Paris which is called

:53:55. > :53:57.Paris's 9/11, as Governor of the state of Indiana, I have no higher

:53:58. > :54:01.priority than the safety and security of people from my state. So

:54:02. > :54:04.I suspended that programme, I stand by that decision and if I am vice

:54:05. > :54:08.president and Donald Trump is president, we are going to put the

:54:09. > :54:11.safety and security of the American people first. Can we just be clear,

:54:12. > :54:14.Hillary and I will do immigration enforcement and that refugees based

:54:15. > :54:18.on whether they are dangerous or not. We won't do it based on the

:54:19. > :54:21.Scrivener netting against you from the country you come from all the

:54:22. > :54:25.religion that you have. That is completely antithetical to the

:54:26. > :54:29.values of equality. The director of the FBI and Homeland Security said

:54:30. > :54:35.we can't know for certain who these people are, coming from Syria. If we

:54:36. > :54:38.don't know, we don't let them in. If we don't know who they are, we don't

:54:39. > :54:43.let the men. The FBI and Homeland Security said we can't know for

:54:44. > :54:46.certain. You have to err on the side of the safety and security of the

:54:47. > :54:51.American people. By trashing all Muslims? Senator Kaine, let me ask

:54:52. > :54:56.you this. Secretary Clinton has talked about an intelligent search.

:54:57. > :55:00.Yes. What exactly would an intelligent surge look like and how

:55:01. > :55:04.would that identify terrorists with no established connection to an

:55:05. > :55:07.international organisation? Intelligence urges two things. It is

:55:08. > :55:13.first dramatically expanding our intelligence capacities by hiring

:55:14. > :55:20.great professionals, and we have some of the best employers in the

:55:21. > :55:22.world working for many of our private sector company so it

:55:23. > :55:26.involves increasing our workforce but striking great partnerships with

:55:27. > :55:29.some of our cyber and Intel expert in the private sector so we can,

:55:30. > :55:32.consistent with constitutional principles, gather more intelligent

:55:33. > :55:36.but the second piece of this is really important. It also means

:55:37. > :55:39.creating stronger alliances. Because you gather intelligence and then you

:55:40. > :55:43.share your intelligence back and forth with allies, and that is how

:55:44. > :55:47.you find out who may be trying to recruit, who may be trying to come

:55:48. > :55:52.from one country to the next, alliances are critical. That is why

:55:53. > :55:57.Donald Trump's claimed that Nato is obsolete, and that we need to get

:55:58. > :56:03.rid of Nato, is so dangerous. He said Nato is obsolete. If you put

:56:04. > :56:06.aside your alliances, who can you share your intelligence with?

:56:07. > :56:09.Hillary Clinton is a Secretary of State who knows how to build

:56:10. > :56:12.alliances. She built the sanctions regime around the world that stop

:56:13. > :56:15.you running a nuclear weapons programme and that is what the

:56:16. > :56:19.intelligence service needs. Better skill and capacity, but also better

:56:20. > :56:25.alliances. I would like to turn to the tragedy in Syria. Can I speak

:56:26. > :56:30.about the cyber security surge? You can have 30 seconds, Governor.

:56:31. > :56:33.Firstly, Donald Trump just spoke about this issue this week. We have

:56:34. > :56:39.got to bring together the best resources in the country to

:56:40. > :56:45.understand that cyber warfare is warfare with the asymmetrical

:56:46. > :56:49.enemies we face as a country, and I look forward to working with you in

:56:50. > :56:53.the Senate to make sure we resource that effort. We will work together

:56:54. > :56:57.in whatever roles we inhabit. I will also tell you that it is important

:56:58. > :57:01.in this moment to remember that Hillary Clinton had a private server

:57:02. > :57:06.in her home that had classified information on it about drone

:57:07. > :57:10.strikes, e-mails from the president of the United States of America were

:57:11. > :57:14.on there, her private server was subject to being hacked by

:57:15. > :57:23.foreigners. Governor, I would like to ask Syria. 250,000... The

:57:24. > :57:26.investigation concluded that not one reasonable prosecutor would take any

:57:27. > :57:29.additional step. You don't get to decide the rights and wrongs of

:57:30. > :57:34.this. We have a justice system that does that, and a Republican FBI

:57:35. > :57:44.director did an investigation and concluded. 250,000 people, 100,000

:57:45. > :57:48.of which are children... That is absolutely false, and you know that,

:57:49. > :57:51.Governor. The FBI did an investigation and they concluded

:57:52. > :57:57.that no reasonable prosecutor would take it further. Senator Kaine,

:57:58. > :58:02.Governor Pence, please. I want to turn out to Syria. 250,000 people,

:58:03. > :58:07.100,000 of them children, are under siege in Aleppo, Syria. Bunker

:58:08. > :58:12.Buster Bonds and incendiary weapons are being dropped on them by Russian

:58:13. > :58:15.and Syrian military is. Does the US have a responsibility to protect

:58:16. > :58:22.civilians and prevent mass casualties on this scale? The United

:58:23. > :58:26.States of America needs to begin to exercise strong leadership, to

:58:27. > :58:32.protect the vulnerable citizens and over 100,000 children in Aleppo.

:58:33. > :58:36.Hillary Clinton's top priority when she became Secretary of State was

:58:37. > :58:41.the Russian reset. The Russian reset. After the Russian reset, the

:58:42. > :58:47.Russians invaded Ukraine and took over Crimea. And the small and

:58:48. > :58:51.bullying leader of Russia is now dictating terms to the United

:58:52. > :58:57.States, to the point where all the United States of America, the

:58:58. > :59:04.greatest nation on Earth, just withdraws from talks about a

:59:05. > :59:08.ceasefire, while Vladimir Putin puts a missile defence system in Syria,

:59:09. > :59:11.marshalling his forces. We have got to begin to lean into this with

:59:12. > :59:16.strong, broad shouldered American leadership. It begins by rebuilding

:59:17. > :59:20.our military. The Russians and the Chinese have been making enormous

:59:21. > :59:24.investments in the military. We have the smallest navy since 1916. We

:59:25. > :59:28.have the lowest number of troops in the end of the Second World War. We

:59:29. > :59:31.have got to work with the Congress, and Donald Trump, to be able to

:59:32. > :59:36.rebuild our military and project American strength in the world. But

:59:37. > :59:40.about Aleppo and about Syria. I truly do believe that what America

:59:41. > :59:45.ought to do right now is immediately establish safe zones so that

:59:46. > :59:50.families and vulnerable families with children can move out of those

:59:51. > :59:54.areas. Work with our Arab partners, real-time, right now, to make that

:59:55. > :59:58.happen. And secondly, I just have to tell you that the provocations by

:59:59. > :00:03.Russia need to be met with American strength. And if Russia chooses to

:00:04. > :00:08.be involved and continue, I should say, to be involved in this barbaric

:00:09. > :00:11.attack on civilians in Aleppo, the United States of America should be

:00:12. > :00:15.prepared to use military force to strike military targets of the Assad

:00:16. > :00:21.regime. To prevent them from this humanitarian crisis that is taking

:00:22. > :00:25.place in Aleppo. There is a broad range of other things that we ought

:00:26. > :00:28.to do as well, we ought to deploy a missile defence shield to the Czech

:00:29. > :00:33.Republic and Poland, which Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama on out of

:00:34. > :00:37.not wanting to offend the Russians back in 2009. We have just got have

:00:38. > :00:40.American strength on the world stage, and when Donald Trump becomes

:00:41. > :00:43.president of the United States, the Russians and other countries in the

:00:44. > :00:48.world will know they dealing with a strong American president.

:00:49. > :00:59.Hillary Clinton and I agree on the Aleppo bases. That it would be a

:01:00. > :01:03.good idea. Hillary Clinton also has the ability to stand up to Russia in

:01:04. > :01:08.a way that this ticket does not. Donald Trump again and again has

:01:09. > :01:12.praised Vladimir Putin and it is clear he has business dealings with

:01:13. > :01:16.Russian oligarchs connected to Vladimir Putin. His team had to be

:01:17. > :01:25.fired a month ago because of those shadowy connections with forces pro

:01:26. > :01:28.Vladimir Putin. He said that Vladimir Putin is a better leader

:01:29. > :01:37.than Barack Obama. Vladimir Putin has run his economy into the world.

:01:38. > :01:41.If you don't know the difference between dictatorship and leadership

:01:42. > :01:49.you have to go back to a fifth-grade civics class. What offends me,

:01:50. > :01:53.what... He just offended me. He said that Donald Trump will rebuild the

:01:54. > :01:58.military. Know he won't. He is avoiding paying taxes. The story,

:01:59. > :02:04.the New York Times story, suggested that he probably did not pay taxes

:02:05. > :02:09.for about 18 years starting in 1985. That included the use of 9/11. Get

:02:10. > :02:14.this. 9/11, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump's hometown was attacked

:02:15. > :02:18.with the worst terrorist attack in the history of the United States.

:02:19. > :02:22.Young men and women, young men and women, signed up to 70 military to

:02:23. > :02:28.fight terrorism. Hillary Clinton went to Washington to rebuild her

:02:29. > :02:32.city and help first responders. Donald Trump was fighting a

:02:33. > :02:39.different fight. A fight to avoid paying taxes that he would not fight

:02:40. > :02:45.terrorism. This is important. He would not support... He would not

:02:46. > :02:48.support the troops. He would not support veterans. He would not

:02:49. > :02:54.support teachers. That is very important. The notion is we have to

:02:55. > :02:59.create a humanitarian zone in law the Syria. That is important. Mike

:03:00. > :03:07.Pence, you mentioned a no-fly zone. Where would you set up a safe zone?

:03:08. > :03:11.How would you keep it safe? Donald Trump supporters are troops and

:03:12. > :03:20.veterans... He won't pay taxes. He has paid all the taxes he... Do you

:03:21. > :03:26.not tick the boxes? How does it work? It is about our troops. I

:03:27. > :03:31.understand why you want to change the subject. Let me be clear on the

:03:32. > :03:35.Russian thing... Do you think Donald Trump... We have to stick to the

:03:36. > :03:40.question. What we are dealing with is that there is an old proverb that

:03:41. > :03:44.the Russian bear does not die, it just hibernates. The truth of the

:03:45. > :03:48.matter is we can talk about this policy of the Hillary Clinton and

:03:49. > :03:51.Barack Obama, it has awakened and aggression in Russia that appeared a

:03:52. > :03:57.few years ago with the move in Georgia, now Crimea, now into the

:03:58. > :04:01.wider Middle East. And all the while, all we do is bowled out arms

:04:02. > :04:07.and say we are not having talks any more. -- fold. To answer this

:04:08. > :04:13.aggression we need American strength and to marshal allies in the region.

:04:14. > :04:17.We need to act and act now to get people out of harm's way. How would

:04:18. > :04:23.the safe zones work was blue they would have to be, as the Senator

:04:24. > :04:26.said, there is already a framework for this recognised by the

:04:27. > :04:31.international community. The United States of America needs to be

:04:32. > :04:37.prepared to work with allies in the region to create a safe passage and

:04:38. > :04:42.protect people in those areas, including with eight no-fly zone.

:04:43. > :04:45.This is tough stuff. I served on the Foreign Affairs Committee. I

:04:46. > :04:54.travelled in and out of that region for ten years. Eyes is all operation

:04:55. > :05:03.Iraqi freedom. -- I saw. To see her feckless leadership... Let me come

:05:04. > :05:06.back... It is troubling... He does not want to acknowledge that we

:05:07. > :05:12.stopped the Irani are clear weapons programme. That we were part of the

:05:13. > :05:17.team that got some of Bin Laden. He does not want to acknowledge that it

:05:18. > :05:22.is a good thing, not a bad thing, that we are down from 175,000 troops

:05:23. > :05:28.deployed overseas to 15,000. Let me tell you what will make this

:05:29. > :05:31.dangerous. Donald Trump's idea we should give nuclear weapons to

:05:32. > :05:42.everyone. Reagan said something about nuclear proliferation back in

:05:43. > :05:47.the 1980s. Some full or maniac could trigger a catastrophic event. --

:05:48. > :05:53.fool. That is what Mike Pence is. He is exactly what Ronald Reagan is

:05:54. > :05:57.talking about. That is below even what you have done before with

:05:58. > :06:07.Hillary Clinton. That is pretty low. Do you think giving Iran niggle

:06:08. > :06:12.weapons will make us safer? Ronald Reagan said the United States of

:06:13. > :06:18.America needs to make investments in modernising the Defence Force. Let

:06:19. > :06:23.me go back... Let me go back to Iran. He keeps saying that the

:06:24. > :06:28.Hillary Clinton, who started the deal with the Iranians, prevented

:06:29. > :06:33.Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. That is... That is what the Joint

:06:34. > :06:42.Chief of Staff is are saying. That is not what Israel thinks. I know

:06:43. > :06:46.you boycotted Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's speech. The

:06:47. > :06:52.point is, what this so-called Iran deal did was essentially

:06:53. > :06:58.guaranteed... When was in Congress, I fought hard on a bipartisan basis

:06:59. > :07:02.with Republican and Democrat workers to move forward the toughest

:07:03. > :07:06.sanctions literally in the history of the United States. We were

:07:07. > :07:10.bringing them to heel. But the goal was always that we would only lift

:07:11. > :07:16.the sanctions if Iran permanently renounced their nuclear... Let me...

:07:17. > :07:20.Let the finish the sentence. They have not renounced their nuclear

:07:21. > :07:25.ambitions. When the deal's period runs out there is no limitation on

:07:26. > :07:30.them obtaining weapons. Senator... $1.7 billion in ransom payment. We

:07:31. > :07:35.needed talk about Russia. Six times tonight I have said to Governor

:07:36. > :07:39.pence I cannot imagine how you can defend your position on one issue

:07:40. > :07:48.after the next. And in all six cases he has refused to defend. Let me...

:07:49. > :07:52.And yet, he is asking everyone to vote for somebody that he cannot

:07:53. > :07:56.defend. And I think that underlines... Gentlemen, let us talk

:07:57. > :08:02.about Russia. I will give you an opportunity to do what you are

:08:03. > :08:10.doing. They think more nations should get nuclear weapons. You

:08:11. > :08:15.never said that... Gentlemen, Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine and

:08:16. > :08:19.Crimea and provided support to Bashar al-Assad's race in. What

:08:20. > :08:26.steps if any would you take to counter these actions? -- regime.

:08:27. > :08:29.You need to get tough on Russia. We will start by not raising Vladimir

:08:30. > :08:38.Putin as a great leader. Donald Trump and Mike Pence have said so.

:08:39. > :08:42.No we haven't. Donald Trump has business dealings with Russia that

:08:43. > :08:47.he refuses to disclose. Hillary Clinton went to deter with Russia as

:08:48. > :08:55.Secretary of State to reduce their nuclear stockpile. -- toe-to-toe.

:08:56. > :09:02.She went toe-to-toe in large protest with Crimea. We have would punishing

:09:03. > :09:05.economic sanctions on Russia that we need to continue. Donald Trump on

:09:06. > :09:12.the other hand did not know Russia had invaded Crimea. He was on a TV

:09:13. > :09:17.show the other day and said, I guarantee this, Russia is not going

:09:18. > :09:21.into the Ukraine. He had to be reminded they went on to the Crimea

:09:22. > :09:26.two years before. Hillary Clinton has gone toe-to-toe with Russia to

:09:27. > :09:34.work out a deal on NewStart and talked to them in a meaningful way

:09:35. > :09:39.to cap Iran's weapon's programme. You have to have the ability to do

:09:40. > :09:43.that. Hillary Clinton does. On the other hand, in Donald Trump, you

:09:44. > :09:50.have someone who always braces Vladimir Putin. -- praises. People

:09:51. > :09:57.should be worried about Donald Trump who has a campaign manager who has

:09:58. > :10:00.ties to Russia and needed to be fired. When Donald Trump is sitting

:10:01. > :10:05.down with Vladimir Putin, is it going to be America's bottomline or

:10:06. > :10:10.Donald Trump's bottom line he will be worried about with business

:10:11. > :10:14.deals? This could be solved if he would release his tax returns as he

:10:15. > :10:18.told the American public he would do. I know he is laughing at this.

:10:19. > :10:21.What does this have to do with Russia? Every president since

:10:22. > :10:25.Richard Nixon has done it and Donald Trump is set on doing business with

:10:26. > :10:33.Russia. The only way we will see if he has a conflict... Senator, your

:10:34. > :10:41.crime -- time is up. Thank you. I am just trying to keep up with the

:10:42. > :10:45.insult-driven campaign. I am just saying facts about your running

:10:46. > :10:51.mate. Don't put words in my mouth. I am happy to defend him. Most of what

:10:52. > :10:56.you said is completely false and the American people know that...

:10:57. > :11:03.Senator, please. This is the alternative universe in Washington

:11:04. > :11:10.DC versus reality. Hillary Clinton said her number one priority was a

:11:11. > :11:16.reset with Russia. That reset involved the invasion of the

:11:17. > :11:19.Ukraine. These little green men, Russian soldiers dressing up like

:11:20. > :11:24.Ukrainian dissidents, then they moved all the way in the Crimea and

:11:25. > :11:28.took over the Crimean peninsula. Donald Trump said it was going to

:11:29. > :11:34.happen again. He knew it happened. That is what happened. You have the

:11:35. > :11:39.rise of aggressive Russia. That is trying to increase its influence in

:11:40. > :11:43.Iran. Because of this deal, it is on a pathway into the future to obtain

:11:44. > :11:49.nuclear weapons. The response to terror in the world in Iran now has

:11:50. > :11:53.a closer working relationship with Russia because of Hillary Clinton

:11:54. > :11:58.and Barack Obama's foreign policy. $150 billion in sanctions all being

:11:59. > :12:05.lifted. And then, of course, Syria. It is extraordinary. Syria is

:12:06. > :12:09.imploding. You just asked every thought for question about the

:12:10. > :12:22.disaster in Aleppo. Islamic State is headquartered in Raqqa. Senator Tim

:12:23. > :12:26.Kaine still sits here with a loyal soldier attitude, I get all that,

:12:27. > :12:29.but saying the foreign policy of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama

:12:30. > :12:36.somehow made the world more secure, it really is astonishing. On the day

:12:37. > :12:42.that Iran released four American hostages, it delivered $400 million

:12:43. > :12:53.in cash as a ransom payment four Americans held by the radicals in

:12:54. > :12:58.Tehran. Donald Trump said that Russia has no respect for Hillary

:12:59. > :13:05.Clinton. Why will they respect Donald Trump? Strength. Business

:13:06. > :13:17.dealings. That is nonsense. Donald Trump's sciences... This whole

:13:18. > :13:22.Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin thing. America is stronger than

:13:23. > :13:27.Russia, 16 times larger than the Russian economy. America's political

:13:28. > :13:35.system is superior to the cronyism and corruption system they have in

:13:36. > :13:41.every way. When Donald Trump and I observed that as I said in Syria and

:13:42. > :13:44.Iran and Ukraine that the small and bullying leader of Russia has been

:13:45. > :13:49.stronger on the world stage then this administration, that is stating

:13:50. > :13:53.painful facts. That is not an endorsement of Vladimir Putin. That

:13:54. > :13:57.is an indictment of the week and feckless leadership of the Clinton

:13:58. > :14:05.and Barack Obama. You can go to the tape. Donald Trump said that but

:14:06. > :14:13.Mayor Putin is a better leader. That is inaccurate. He has been stronger

:14:14. > :14:18.on the world stage. He said leader. I will see this. If you mistake

:14:19. > :14:22.leadership for dictatorship and you cannot tell the difference, a

:14:23. > :14:29.country that is running its economy into the ground... Is this the great

:14:30. > :14:35.school thing again? You should not be Commander-in-Chief. When Donald

:14:36. > :14:39.Trump's son says they have dealings with Russia, those can be disclosed

:14:40. > :14:43.in tax returns that they refuse to disclose. Donald Trump will be

:14:44. > :14:48.looking out for himself, not America. What went wrong with the

:14:49. > :14:57.Russian reset? Vladimir Putin. He is a dictator.

:14:58. > :15:02.Vladimir Putin is a dictator, he is not a leader. Anyone who thinks

:15:03. > :15:07.otherwise doesn't know Russian history and doesn't know Putin. John

:15:08. > :15:12.McCain said I look in his eyes and Acy KGB, and Hillary Kynoch has the

:15:13. > :15:15.same feeling. So how do you deal with him? We do have to deal with

:15:16. > :15:19.Russia in a lot of different ways. There are areas where we can

:15:20. > :15:24.co-operate. So it was Hillary Clinton who worked with Russia on

:15:25. > :15:28.the New Start treaty, it was Hillary Clinton who worked with Russia to

:15:29. > :15:34.get them engage in a community of nations to stop the run in weapon's

:15:35. > :15:39.programme to without firing a shot. She is not praising him as a great

:15:40. > :15:42.guy but knows how to set down at a table and negotiate tough deals.

:15:43. > :15:45.This is a very challenging part of the world, and we ought to have a

:15:46. > :15:50.commander-in-chief who has prepared and done it, rather than somebody

:15:51. > :15:55.who goes around praising Vladimir Putin. I would like to talk about

:15:56. > :15:59.North Korea, Iran, and the threat of nuclear weapons. North Korea

:16:00. > :16:05.recently conducted its fifth and most powerful nuclear tests. What

:16:06. > :16:11.specific tests -- steps would you take to prevent North Korea building

:16:12. > :16:15.a nuclear missile capable of reaching the United States? First we

:16:16. > :16:19.need to make a commitment to rebuild a military including modernising our

:16:20. > :16:24.nuclear forces. And we also need an effective American diplomacy that

:16:25. > :16:34.will marshal the resources of nations in the Asian Pacific rim to

:16:35. > :16:38.put pressure on North Korea, on Kim Jong-un, to abandon his nuclear

:16:39. > :16:41.ambitions. It has to remain the policy of the United States, the

:16:42. > :16:46.denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula and when Donald Trump is

:16:47. > :16:49.president of the United States we are not going to have the kind of

:16:50. > :16:57.posturing around the world that has Russia invading Crimea and Ukraine,

:16:58. > :17:01.has the Chinese building new Islands in the South China Sea, it has the

:17:02. > :17:05.world flouting American power. We are going to go back to the days of

:17:06. > :17:09.peace through strength. But I have to tell you, all this talk about tax

:17:10. > :17:15.returns, and I get it, you want to keep ringing it up, it must have

:17:16. > :17:20.done well in a focus group. But Hillary Clinton and her husband set

:17:21. > :17:23.up a private foundation called the Clinton Foundation. While she was

:17:24. > :17:28.Secretary of State, the Clinton foundation accepted tens of millions

:17:29. > :17:35.of dollars from foreign governments and foreign donors. Now, you will

:17:36. > :17:39.need to know out there, this is basic stuff. Foreign donors, and

:17:40. > :17:43.certainly foreign governments, cannot participate in the American

:17:44. > :17:47.political process. They cannot make financial contributions. But the

:17:48. > :17:50.Clintons figured out a way to create a foundation where foreign

:17:51. > :17:55.governments and foreign donors can donate millions of dollars. And then

:17:56. > :17:59.we found, thanks to the good work of the Associated Press, that more than

:18:00. > :18:03.half of her private meetings when she was Secretary of State, were

:18:04. > :18:06.given to major donors of the Clinton foundation. You talk about all these

:18:07. > :18:12.baseless rumours about Russia and the rest, Hillary Clinton, you asked

:18:13. > :18:15.the trustworthy question at the very beginning, the reason people don't

:18:16. > :18:19.trust Hillary Clinton is because they are looking at the pay to play

:18:20. > :18:23.politics that she operated with the Clinton foundation, through a

:18:24. > :18:27.private server. And they are saying enough is enough. I am going to talk

:18:28. > :18:31.about the foundation, then I will talk about North Korea. So on the

:18:32. > :18:34.foundation, I am glad to talk about the foundation. The Clinton

:18:35. > :18:38.Foundation is one of the highest rated charities in the world. It

:18:39. > :18:44.provides AIDS drugs to about 11.5 million people. It helps Americans

:18:45. > :18:47.deal with opioid overdoses. It gets higher rankings for its charity than

:18:48. > :18:52.the American Red Cross does. The Clinton foundation does an awful lot

:18:53. > :18:56.of good work. Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State took no action to

:18:57. > :18:59.benefit the foundation, the State Department did an investigation and

:19:00. > :19:02.they concluded that everything Hillary Clinton did as Secretary of

:19:03. > :19:06.State was completely in the interests of the United States. So

:19:07. > :19:10.the foundation does good work, and Hillary Clinton as Secretary of

:19:11. > :19:13.State acted in the interest of the United States. But let's compare

:19:14. > :19:19.this now with the Trump Organisation and the Trump Foundation. The Trump

:19:20. > :19:22.Organisation is an octopus like organisation with tentacles all over

:19:23. > :19:25.the world whose conflict of interests could only be known if

:19:26. > :19:30.Donald Trump would release his tax returns. He has refused to do it.

:19:31. > :19:34.His sons have said that the organisation has a lot of business

:19:35. > :19:39.dealings in Russia. And remember, the Trump organisation is not a

:19:40. > :19:42.nonprofit. It is putting money into Donald Trump's pockets and into the

:19:43. > :19:47.pockets of his children whereas the Clinton Foundation is a non-profit

:19:48. > :19:53.and no Clinton family member draws any salary. The Trump foundation is

:19:54. > :20:00.nonprofit. In addition, Donald Trump has a Foundation. It was recently

:20:01. > :20:05.fined for making an illegal contribution to Florida attorney

:20:06. > :20:08.general, they tried to hide it late disguising it as someone else and

:20:09. > :20:10.the person they donated to was somebody whose office was charged

:20:11. > :20:16.with investigating the university. This is the difference between a

:20:17. > :20:19.foundation that does good work and a Secretary of State who acted in

:20:20. > :20:22.accordance with American interest is, and somebody who was conflicted

:20:23. > :20:26.and doing work around the world and won't share with the American public

:20:27. > :20:31.what he is doing and what those conflicts. Governor, I will give you

:20:32. > :20:36.30 seconds to respond, because I know you want to, but again I will

:20:37. > :20:40.remind you both, this was about North Korea. The Trump foundation is

:20:41. > :20:43.a private family foundation. They give virtually every cent in the

:20:44. > :20:49.Trump foundation to charitable causes. Less than 10 cents on the

:20:50. > :20:55.dollar in the Clinton foundation has gone to charitable causes. $20,000

:20:56. > :21:04.Porgera of Donald Trump? It has been a platform for the Clintons to

:21:05. > :21:07.travel the world, to have staff. But honestly, Senator, we would know a

:21:08. > :21:15.lot more about it if Hillary Clinton would turn over the 33,000 e-mails

:21:16. > :21:18.that she refused to turn over. If you have intelligence, Senator

:21:19. > :21:21.Kaine, if you had intelligence that North Korea was about to launch a

:21:22. > :21:24.missile, a nuclear armed missile, capable of reaching the United

:21:25. > :21:30.states, would you take pre-emptive action? Look, a president should

:21:31. > :21:34.take action to defend the United States against a known threats, you

:21:35. > :21:38.have to. The President has to do that. Now, exactly what action, he

:21:39. > :21:41.would have to determine what your intelligence was, how certain you

:21:42. > :21:45.were of that intelligence, but you would have to take action. You asked

:21:46. > :21:49.the question of how do we deal with North Korea. Among the foreign

:21:50. > :21:51.relations committee we just took out an extensive sanctions package

:21:52. > :21:55.against North Korea and interestingly enough the UN followed

:21:56. > :21:59.and the virtually the same package. Often China will use their veto on

:22:00. > :22:02.the Security Council to veto a package like that. They are starting

:22:03. > :22:06.to get worried about North Korea as well. So they actually supported the

:22:07. > :22:10.sanctions package, even though many of the sanctions against Chinese

:22:11. > :22:14.firms, Chinese financial institutions. So we are working

:22:15. > :22:17.together with China, and we need to. China is another one of those

:22:18. > :22:21.relationships where it is competitive, it is also challenging,

:22:22. > :22:24.and at times like North Korea we have to be able to co-operate.

:22:25. > :22:29.Hillary understands that very well. She went once famously to China and

:22:30. > :22:33.stood up a human rights meeting and look them in the eye and said

:22:34. > :22:43.women's rights are human rights. They didn't want her to say that,

:22:44. > :22:47.but she did. She has also worked on a lot of diplomatic deals with

:22:48. > :22:51.China, and that is what it is going to take. The thing I would worry a

:22:52. > :22:54.little bit about is that Donald Trump owes about $650 million to

:22:55. > :22:58.banks, including the bank of China. I'm not sure he could stand up so

:22:59. > :23:03.tough to the people who have learned him money. I would like to turn to

:23:04. > :23:06.our next segment now, and in this I would like to focus on social

:23:07. > :23:09.issues. You have both been open about the role that faith has played

:23:10. > :23:13.in your lives. Can you discuss in detail a time when you struggle to

:23:14. > :23:17.balance your personal faith and a public policy position? That is an

:23:18. > :23:20.easy one for me, Elaine. I am really fortunate, I grew up in a wonderful

:23:21. > :23:25.household with great Irish Catholic parents, my mum and dad are sitting

:23:26. > :23:28.right here. I was educated in Kansas City, my 43rd reunion is in ten

:23:29. > :23:33.days. I worked with Jesuit missionaries in Honduras, nearly 35

:23:34. > :23:38.years ago, and they were the heroes of my life. I try to practise my

:23:39. > :23:41.religion in a very devout way, and follow the teachings of my church in

:23:42. > :23:45.my own personal life. But I don't believe in this nation, the first

:23:46. > :23:49.Amendment nation, where we don't raise any religion over the other,

:23:50. > :23:53.and we allow people to worship as they please, that the doctrines of

:23:54. > :23:57.any one religion should be mandated for everyone. For me the hardest

:23:58. > :24:04.struggle in my face life was a Catholic Church is against the death

:24:05. > :24:08.penalty, and so am I, but I was governor of the state. The State Law

:24:09. > :24:12.said that there was a death penalty for crimes, if the jury determined

:24:13. > :24:15.them to be heinous. And so I had to grapple with that. When I was

:24:16. > :24:18.running for governor I was attacked pretty strongly because of my

:24:19. > :24:23.position is death penalty. But I look the voters of Virginia in the

:24:24. > :24:26.eye and said this is my religion, and I am not going to change my

:24:27. > :24:31.religious practice to get one vote, but I know how to take an oath and

:24:32. > :24:36.uphold the law, and if you elect me I will uphold the law. And I was

:24:37. > :24:40.elected, and I did. It was very difficult to allow executions to go

:24:41. > :24:43.forth but in situations where I didn't feel like there was a case

:24:44. > :24:48.for clemency, I told Virginia voters that I would uphold the law, and I

:24:49. > :24:52.did. That was a real struggle, but I think it is really important that

:24:53. > :24:56.those of us who have deep faith lies don't feel they can substitute their

:24:57. > :25:04.views forever in our society, regardless of their views. Governor

:25:05. > :25:08.Pence. It is a wonderful question, and my Christian faith is at the

:25:09. > :25:12.very heart of who I am. I was also raised in a wonderful family of

:25:13. > :25:17.faith. It was church on Sunday morning and grace before dinner. My

:25:18. > :25:24.Christian faith came real for me when I made a personal for Christ

:25:25. > :25:28.when I was a freshman in college. I have tried to leave that out,

:25:29. > :25:32.however imperfectly, every day of my life since. With my wife and my

:25:33. > :25:36.site, we follow calling in the public service and have tried to

:25:37. > :25:44.keep faith with the values that we cherish. And with regard to when I

:25:45. > :25:51.struggle, I appreciate... And I have a great deal of respect for Senator

:25:52. > :25:58.Kaine's sincere faith, I truly do. But for me, I would tell you that

:25:59. > :26:05.for me the sanctity of life proceeds out of the belief of that ancient

:26:06. > :26:10.principle, that where God says before you were formed, I knew you.

:26:11. > :26:15.So for my first time in public life, I sought to stand with great

:26:16. > :26:19.compassion for the sanctity of life. The state of Indiana has also sought

:26:20. > :26:23.to make sure that we expand alternatives and healthcare

:26:24. > :26:27.counselling or women, non- abortion alternatives. I am also very pleased

:26:28. > :26:31.with the fact that we are well on our way in Indiana to become the

:26:32. > :26:35.most pro- adoption state in America. I think if you are going to be pro-

:26:36. > :26:38.life you should be pro- adoption. But what I can't understand is with

:26:39. > :26:42.Hillary Clinton and now Senator Kaine at her side, to support a

:26:43. > :26:48.practice like partial birth abortion, and to hold to the view...

:26:49. > :26:51.I know, Senator Kaine, you hold pro-life views personally, but the

:26:52. > :26:55.very idea that a child that is almost born into the world could

:26:56. > :27:04.still have their life taken from them is just anathema to me. And I

:27:05. > :27:08.can't in conscience support a party that supports that. I know you have

:27:09. > :27:11.historically opposed taxpayer funding of abortion, but Hillary

:27:12. > :27:14.Clinton wants to repeal the long-standing provision in the law

:27:15. > :27:20.where we said we wouldn't use taxpayer dollars to fund abortion.

:27:21. > :27:25.So for me my faith informs my life. I try and spend a little time on my

:27:26. > :27:28.knees every day, but for me it begins with cherishing the dignity,

:27:29. > :27:35.the worse, the value, of every human life. Elaine, this is a fundamental

:27:36. > :27:40.question, a fundamental question. Hillary and I are both people of

:27:41. > :27:44.religious backgrounds, her Methodist church experience was really

:27:45. > :27:47.formative for her as a public servant. But we really feel like you

:27:48. > :27:51.should live fully and with enthusiasm the commands of your

:27:52. > :27:55.faith. But it is not the role of the public servant to mandate that for

:27:56. > :28:01.everybody else. So let's talk about abortion and choice. Let's talk

:28:02. > :28:05.about that. We support Roe versus Wade. We support the constitutional

:28:06. > :28:11.right of American women to consult their own conscience, their own...

:28:12. > :28:15.Supportive partner, their own minister, but then make their own

:28:16. > :28:20.decision about pregnancy. That is something we trust American women,

:28:21. > :28:24.to do that. And we don't think that women should be punished as Donald

:28:25. > :28:30.Trump said they should, for making the decision to have an abortion.

:28:31. > :28:34.Governor Pence wants to repeal Roe versus Wade. He said he wants to put

:28:35. > :28:38.it on the ash heap of history. We have some young people in the

:28:39. > :28:41.audience who were not even born when it was decided. This is pretty

:28:42. > :28:46.important. Before Roe versus Wade, states could pass criminal laws to

:28:47. > :28:49.do just that, to punish women if they made the choice to terminate

:28:50. > :28:53.pregnancy. I think you should leave your moral values, but the last

:28:54. > :28:58.thing, the very last thing, that governments should do is have laws

:28:59. > :29:02.that would punish women who make reproductive choices. And that is

:29:03. > :29:09.the fundamental difference between Clinton ticket and a trump ticket

:29:10. > :29:13.that wants to punish women. It is really not, Donald Trump and I would

:29:14. > :29:18.never support legislation that would punish women who make the

:29:19. > :29:23.heartbreaking choice to end a pregnancy. So why did he say that?

:29:24. > :29:30.Look, he is not a polished politician like Hillary Clinton. A

:29:31. > :29:35.great line from the gospel of Matthew... The fullness of the

:29:36. > :29:39.heart, the mouth speaks. When Donald Trump says women should be punished

:29:40. > :29:46.or Mexicans are rapists and criminals, or John McCain is not a

:29:47. > :29:51.hero, he is showing you who he is. Senator, you have worked out that

:29:52. > :29:55.Mexican thick again. Can you defend that? There are criminal aliens in

:29:56. > :30:00.this country who have come into this country illegally, who are

:30:01. > :30:05.perpetrating violence you want to use a tar brush against Mexicans, on

:30:06. > :30:10.that? He also said and many of them are good people. You keep leaving

:30:11. > :30:14.that out of your quote, and if you want to go there I will go there.

:30:15. > :30:18.There is a choice here, and it is a choice in life. I couldn't be more

:30:19. > :30:21.proud to be standing with Donald Trump, who is standing for the right

:30:22. > :30:25.to life. It is a principle that Senator Kaine, and I'm very gentle

:30:26. > :30:28.about this, because I really do respect you, it is a principle that

:30:29. > :30:32.you embrace, and I have appreciated the fact that you have supported the

:30:33. > :30:35.amendment which bans the use of taxpayer funding for abortion in the

:30:36. > :30:39.past, but that is not Hillary Clinton's view. People need to

:30:40. > :30:42.understand we can come together as a nation, we can create a culture of

:30:43. > :30:50.life. More and more young people today are embracing life, because we

:30:51. > :30:56.know we are better for it. Like Mother Teresa said, let's welcome

:30:57. > :30:59.the children into our world. There are so many families around the

:31:00. > :31:03.country who can't have children. If we could improve adoption so that

:31:04. > :31:07.families who can have children can adopt more readily.

:31:08. > :31:12.Why don't you trust women to make history for themselves? We can

:31:13. > :31:18.encourage people to support life. Why don't you trust women? Why

:31:19. > :31:22.doesn't Donald Trump trust women to make this choice for themselves?

:31:23. > :31:27.That is what we should be doing in public life, living the lives of

:31:28. > :31:30.faith or motivation with enthusiasm and excitement, convincing each

:31:31. > :31:34.other, having dialogue about important moral issues. On

:31:35. > :31:39.fundamental issues of morality we should let women make their own

:31:40. > :31:48.decisions. Because society can be judged by how it deals with the most

:31:49. > :31:52.invulnerable, including the unborn and I cannot be more proud than

:31:53. > :31:58.being with Donald Trump on this. It has been a divisive campaign. If

:31:59. > :32:01.your ticket wins, Senator SenaKaine, what will you do to unify the

:32:02. > :32:08.country and reassure the people who voted against it? -- Senator Kaine.

:32:09. > :32:12.It might be the city $4000 question. It has been a divisive campaign.

:32:13. > :32:17.Hillary is running a campaign about stronger together. Donald Trump,

:32:18. > :32:22.this is not directed at this man, except to the extent that he cannot

:32:23. > :32:26.defend Donald Trump, he has run a campaign about one in sold after the

:32:27. > :32:31.next. We have to bring the country together. Here is what we will do.

:32:32. > :32:37.Hillary Clinton was First Lady and then senator and Secretary of State.

:32:38. > :32:45.I am amazed, as I talk with Republican senators, how

:32:46. > :32:50.well-regarded she is. She was on other committees. She worked across

:32:51. > :32:55.the aisle as First Lady to get the Chip programme passed so 8 million

:32:56. > :32:58.kids have health insurance. That is including 150,000 in Indiana. She

:32:59. > :33:03.worked across the aisle after 9/11 to get health benefits for those

:33:04. > :33:07.responders who went into the Pentagon and into the Twin Towers.

:33:08. > :33:11.She got benefits for the National guard members, including those in

:33:12. > :33:16.Virginia in the National guard. She has a track record of working across

:33:17. > :33:21.the aisle to make things happen. I have the same track record. I was

:33:22. > :33:24.governor of Virginia with two Republican houses and in the Senate

:33:25. > :33:29.I have good working relationships across the aisle. It is fine to be a

:33:30. > :33:31.Democrat or Republican or independent but after election day

:33:32. > :33:35.they will always work together. Hillary Clinton has a track record

:33:36. > :33:41.of accomplishment across the aisle that will enable her to do just

:33:42. > :33:46.that. How will you unify the country if you win? Thank you, Elaine, and

:33:47. > :33:57.thanks for a great discussion. Thank you. This is a very challenging time

:33:58. > :34:02.in the life of our nation. It has weakened America's place in the

:34:03. > :34:06.world. The world has been followed by an economy that is truly

:34:07. > :34:11.struggling, stifled by an avalanche of more taxes, more regulation,

:34:12. > :34:16.Obamacare, the war on coal and the trade deals that have put American

:34:17. > :34:20.workers in the back seat. I think the best way that we can bring

:34:21. > :34:25.people together is through change in Washington, DC. I served in

:34:26. > :34:36.Washington, DC fought fault years in the Congress of the United States.

:34:37. > :34:42.-- for 12 years. It is going to take leadership to do this. The American

:34:43. > :34:47.people want to see the nation standing tall on the world stage.

:34:48. > :34:51.They want to see us supporting the military, rebuilding the military,

:34:52. > :34:55.commending the respect of the world. They want to see the American

:34:56. > :35:01.economy off to the races. They want to see an American comeback. Donald

:35:02. > :35:04.Trump's career has been about building. Going through hardship

:35:05. > :35:11.like a business person does, and finding a way through smarts and

:35:12. > :35:15.ingenuity to fight. When he becomes president of the United States, we

:35:16. > :35:19.will have a stronger America. When you hear that he says he wants to

:35:20. > :35:23.make America great again, when we do that I truly do believe the American

:35:24. > :35:27.people will be standing tall. They are going to see that real change

:35:28. > :35:31.can happen after decades of talking about it. When that happens, the

:35:32. > :35:35.American people will stand tall, stand together and we will have the

:35:36. > :35:39.unity that has been missing for far too long. Thank you so much. This

:35:40. > :35:44.concludes the vice presidential debate. My thanks to the candidates,

:35:45. > :35:48.the commission and to you for watching. Please tune in on Sunday

:35:49. > :35:53.for the second presidential debate at Washington University in St Louis

:35:54. > :35:57.and the final debate on October 19 at the University of Nevada, Las

:35:58. > :36:03.Vegas. From Farmville, Virginia, good night.

:36:04. > :36:07.And that is the end of the one and only vice presidential debate. A

:36:08. > :36:16.very feisty affair in which Tim Kaine and Mike Pence clashed over

:36:17. > :36:22.the North Korean threat, the state of the US economy, terrorism, Syria,

:36:23. > :36:26.Russia, Hillary Clinton's record as Secretary of State and the record of

:36:27. > :36:31.the Clinton Foundation. They went at it hammer and tong, both men really

:36:32. > :36:37.had prepared and it showed. Watching all of it for us at the debate in

:36:38. > :36:44.Virginia was the BBC's Anthony Zirker. It was a really substantive

:36:45. > :36:51.debate, wasn't it? Who do you think came out on top? It was a very

:36:52. > :36:55.spirited debate. Stylistically, Mike Pence's experience as a radio show

:36:56. > :37:02.host in the 1990s came across. He was calm, measured. Tim Kaine seemed

:37:03. > :37:06.over aggressive, over caffeinated, maybe. His interrupting won't play

:37:07. > :37:13.well with the audience. Mike Pence seemed to be making the case for

:37:14. > :37:18.republicanism, telling Republicans this was still the party. Whenever

:37:19. > :37:22.Tim Kaine went after Donald Trump, trying to get in a jab, Mike Pence

:37:23. > :37:26.deflected them and talk about something else. He only talked about

:37:27. > :37:30.Donald Trump when he was pressed and oftentimes he said, Donald Trump

:37:31. > :37:33.didn't say that, or on the abortion subject he said Donald Trump didn't

:37:34. > :37:38.mean that, he is not a polished politician. Mike Pence was making

:37:39. > :37:43.the case that the Republican Party is still there. Tim Kaine was doing

:37:44. > :37:48.the traditional vice presidential role of being the attack dog. It

:37:49. > :37:52.might not have come across to the national audience but he said that

:37:53. > :37:57.might hence wasn't defending Donald Trump. He said six times Mike Pence

:37:58. > :38:01.hasn't defended Donald Trump. It is a wash as far as I think who won and

:38:02. > :38:06.lost. They each have things they wanted to do. Like we said before,

:38:07. > :38:11.these debates don't really have much influence on the bigger picture. I

:38:12. > :38:16.think Mike Pence probably helped Mike Pence of the most tonight. What

:38:17. > :38:23.impact do you think this is going to have going into that crucial second

:38:24. > :38:30.presidential debate on Sunday? To some extent, Mike Pence accomplished

:38:31. > :38:34.his goal, which he didn't have any visible gas, he didn't throw fuel

:38:35. > :38:39.onto the fire, helps create a breaking point from this bad week

:38:40. > :38:43.that Donald Trump has hard. So are going forward, we will talk about

:38:44. > :38:47.this debate for a couple of days but I don't think it will have a lasting

:38:48. > :38:50.effect after that. It might give the trump campaign a chance to reset the

:38:51. > :38:55.narrative and have a clean table going into the St Louis debate on

:38:56. > :38:58.Sunday night. If that is the case it is up to Donald Trump to put

:38:59. > :39:04.together a better performance than he had in the first debate. Thank

:39:05. > :39:08.you. Genevieve Wood joins me now, former spokesperson for the

:39:09. > :39:14.Republican national Mitty, and a democratic strategist, Christopher

:39:15. > :39:18.finis. If only Donald Trump put in such a good performance, is there a

:39:19. > :39:21.lesson for the second debate, Mike Pence was disciplined, he was on

:39:22. > :39:27.message, he didn't rant, he was persuasive. I was proud of Mike

:39:28. > :39:30.Pence. I was not surprised. I have spoken with him a number of times

:39:31. > :39:36.and he delivered like he always does. He knows his policy, he is a

:39:37. > :39:40.good presenter of policy. And going to Anthony's point, I don't know how

:39:41. > :39:43.many people were watching after 30 or 40 minutes because you should

:39:44. > :39:47.have been moderating this! She lost control at some points. Some of that

:39:48. > :39:54.was Tim Kaine who jumped in a little bit too much. They were talking over

:39:55. > :39:59.each other. They did begin to talk over each other but as it went on it

:40:00. > :40:02.got better and I hope people stuck with it. It is interesting, looking

:40:03. > :40:06.on Twitter at the people who were doing focus groups of undecided

:40:07. > :40:10.voters, who said that Tim Kaine was interrupting too much and they felt

:40:11. > :40:14.he was robotic in his talking point. Mike Pence was more natural. Maybe

:40:15. > :40:24.the radio show host coming through. We usually do the focus groups for

:40:25. > :40:28.these debates. We chose not to for the VP one because it is not as

:40:29. > :40:32.exciting and it lived up to expectation. Part of the challenge,

:40:33. > :40:38.when you are doing a debate, there is a tone and a substance part of

:40:39. > :40:43.the reaction that voters will have. And I think when you are

:40:44. > :40:47.interrupting, in terms of... Both of them were doing it. It rubs people

:40:48. > :40:52.wrong and a little bit. That I think was the major mistakes that he made

:40:53. > :40:57.in the first debate, Trump, stylistically Mike Pence was calm

:40:58. > :41:00.and measured, you know. They both got in their core talking points.

:41:01. > :41:05.They both got what they want and from this. For Mike Pence it was,

:41:06. > :41:13.the insane ticket is kind of scene. OK? I am not sure that is going to

:41:14. > :41:18.fly. That was his goal. For Tim Kaine it was arguing the reasons why

:41:19. > :41:23.you cannot vote for a Trump- Pence to get. And on the democratic side

:41:24. > :41:32.is the question of Donald Trump and his taxes which was a question

:41:33. > :41:37.expected. The story that he wrote of $1 billion in tax and did not pay

:41:38. > :41:41.taxes, perhaps, for almost 20 years of this question of when he releases

:41:42. > :41:45.his tax return is coming up and this is what Mike Pence had to say. He

:41:46. > :41:51.defended Ronald Trump's use of the tax system. He faced some pretty

:41:52. > :41:55.tough times 20 years ago. Like every other business, including the New

:41:56. > :41:59.York Times not long ago, he was using net operating loss. We have a

:42:00. > :42:04.tax code that is designed to encourage entrepreneurship. Why when

:42:05. > :42:07.he released his tax return? We are answering the question about the

:42:08. > :42:12.business thing. I want to comeback to this. His tax return showed he

:42:13. > :42:17.went through a very difficult time but he used the tax code just the

:42:18. > :42:20.way it is supposed to be used and he did it brilliantly. How can you know

:42:21. > :42:24.that? You haven't seen his tax return. He has created a business

:42:25. > :42:28.worth billions of dollars. How do you know that? Tim Kaine didn't kiss

:42:29. > :42:33.his opportunity and questioned why Donald Trump wasn't releasing his

:42:34. > :42:37.tax returns. -- myths. He said if I run for president I will release my

:42:38. > :42:43.taxes. He has broken his first promise. And he will! He stood on

:42:44. > :42:47.the stage... He hasn't broken his promise! When Hillary said he hasn't

:42:48. > :42:51.been paying taxes he said, that makes me smile. It is smart not to

:42:52. > :42:56.pay for the military? Not to pay for veterans? Not to pay for teachers?

:42:57. > :43:01.All of us are pay for those things I guess are stupid. The last thing I

:43:02. > :43:08.will say... Do you write down all the things you are entitled to? I

:43:09. > :43:14.do. The governor, macros to, had to show his details to show he was

:43:15. > :43:19.qualified -- Pence. Donald Trump has to do that and he is breaking his

:43:20. > :43:23.promise. So, it was a feisty exchange over taxes. The question

:43:24. > :43:27.was coming, Donald Trump and his tax returns, Mike Pence was eloquent but

:43:28. > :43:32.did he convince voters who want Donald Trump to release his tax

:43:33. > :43:36.returns? Probably not. On the record, I wish he released it a long

:43:37. > :43:40.time ago. It should have been out of the way a long time ago. I think

:43:41. > :43:44.this issue is hurting Donald Trump less than it would have hurt but

:43:45. > :43:47.Romney and other folks and I will tell you why. People know the tax

:43:48. > :43:51.system needs reform. They know that people up and down the ladder and

:43:52. > :43:54.people at the top have lawyers and accountants who take account of

:43:55. > :43:59.loopholes. $1 billion worth of loopholes? And they know that he has

:44:00. > :44:04.been upfront about that. He has been a politician who has said, the tax

:44:05. > :44:08.system works for folks like me. I have used it. I know that better

:44:09. > :44:12.than anybody. He has been more honest about those things, just like

:44:13. > :44:16.you said in the past. Yes, I have given to politicians on both sides

:44:17. > :44:20.because I know how it works and I think people appreciate that. I

:44:21. > :44:24.don't think it is hurting him as it would others but I wish he had

:44:25. > :44:31.released them. Do you feel that Tim Kaine was a little bit too keen to

:44:32. > :44:36.act our contactors? You might think it is a bogus defence but Mike Pence

:44:37. > :44:41.was eloquent and calm in the way he presented.

:44:42. > :44:49.I see it a couple of different ways. It is beyond the pale that someone

:44:50. > :44:56.running for president, when every other republican has done... Even if

:44:57. > :45:01.they are questions that could be easily answered, but you have to

:45:02. > :45:08.release them to keep legitimacy. The part about the billion-dollar loss,

:45:09. > :45:12.to me... From my focus, the fixation on releasing the tax is only get you

:45:13. > :45:20.so far. People have heard this for six months, a year. Whoever will be

:45:21. > :45:23.influenced by this has moved. To me, the most significantly damaging

:45:24. > :45:29.factor that came out of that story in the New York Times was the fact

:45:30. > :45:33.that he lost $1 billion. Here is a guy who talks about, and I've seen

:45:34. > :45:45.this in a focus group, people ask why you like a -- Dzhokhar -- Donald

:45:46. > :45:51.Trump, people think is a good businessman. And yet he is up in

:45:52. > :45:55.Ohio, which is interesting, even after his poor debate performance.

:45:56. > :46:01.Do you feel this tax issue could be put to bed ahead of Sunday's crucial

:46:02. > :46:10.debate? I am sure Hillary Clinton will bring it up again, but the

:46:11. > :46:15.challenge is the e-mails she would -- should have released. So they can

:46:16. > :46:20.both go back and forth... Doesn't be paying taxes resonate more with

:46:21. > :46:25.voters? Yes, and most people hate paying those taxes and they like

:46:26. > :46:30.that he says he was a smart guy and he has paid all of the federal

:46:31. > :46:33.taxes. But the reality is most people have not been able to get

:46:34. > :46:37.away and Mike Pence made this argument quite well on the e-mail

:46:38. > :46:42.question. Most people can't get away with what Hillary Clinton has gotten

:46:43. > :46:46.away with. I think there are more question about her trustworthiness

:46:47. > :46:51.and we see that in all of the polls. So at the end of the day this could

:46:52. > :46:55.wash out but my guess is it will come back on Sunday night. There was

:46:56. > :47:04.a big amount in this debate on foreign policy, so, for example,

:47:05. > :47:08.Mike Pence said America needed to stand up to Russia's aggression.

:47:09. > :47:15.This is what he said. After the Russian reset the Russians invaded

:47:16. > :47:23.Ukraine and took over Crimea. The bullying by Russia is now dictating

:47:24. > :47:29.terms to the US, to the point where the US... The greatest nation on

:47:30. > :47:33.Earth, it just withdraws from talks about a ceasefire while Vladimir

:47:34. > :47:38.Putin puts a missile defence system in Syria, while he marshals the

:47:39. > :47:44.forces. We have got to begin to lean into this with strong, broad

:47:45. > :47:47.shouldered American leadership, which begins by rebuilding the

:47:48. > :47:51.American military. You can't really escape from the fact that there are

:47:52. > :47:58.a lot of accusations about Donald Trump cosying up to Russia. The fact

:47:59. > :48:04.is he hasn't talked as negatively about Vladimir Putin as Mike Pence

:48:05. > :48:07.tonight. I would like to see him talk more like Mike Pence.

:48:08. > :48:15.Interesting what you saw on Twitter about that. I think Mike Pence gave

:48:16. > :48:21.a strong point of view, as with most Republicans on that. Donald Trump

:48:22. > :48:28.hasn't been in politics and he has made some statements that are likely

:48:29. > :48:31.to offend. But the difference is people might say he knows there's

:48:32. > :48:36.something wrong with the way we do trade in this country, he knows we

:48:37. > :48:39.are we to play on the stage than we were before this past administration

:48:40. > :48:43.was in office and people buy into that. Does he have all the details

:48:44. > :48:47.about how he will fix all the things? No. So they start looking at

:48:48. > :48:51.who will advise him. I think Mike Pence did an excellent job tonight

:48:52. > :48:56.of convincing people he is a good adviser. But this question that Mike

:48:57. > :49:04.Pence was hammering home the night, he is trying to link ITC is America

:49:05. > :49:09.'s weak position into the world -- to the world with Hillary Clinton.

:49:10. > :49:14.It is going to play to the base, which is what he is trying to do.

:49:15. > :49:19.The problem for Donald Trump is when you talk about his foreign policy

:49:20. > :49:24.vision there is none. When you talk about his policy details there are

:49:25. > :49:27.none. This notion that someone who is running for president of the

:49:28. > :49:31.United States, details are everything. It isn't a rhetorical

:49:32. > :49:35.job. You have to have the experience, judgement and knowledge.

:49:36. > :49:49.It will laugh at it because it's a good zinger, at when Hillary Clinton

:49:50. > :49:54.responds to a tweet in such a way, how are you going to cope as

:49:55. > :49:59.president? That isn't a retro- cool response, that is a legitimate

:50:00. > :50:04.question. So I think we've seen in this entire race, both in the

:50:05. > :50:08.primary and in the general, the reason why so many Republican

:50:09. > :50:14.leaders, including President Bush who refuse to endorse a Republican

:50:15. > :50:18.nominee. I've never seen or heard of such a thing. The arts doing it out

:50:19. > :50:22.of spite, they are doing it because they look at the man and how he

:50:23. > :50:26.behaves and when you talk about foreign policy, and to me that

:50:27. > :50:30.really is the most important area, domestic policy, you will be checked

:50:31. > :50:35.and balanced by Congress. But when it comes to foreign policy that is

:50:36. > :50:41.where the Commander in chief has enormous power. To take such

:50:42. > :50:45.freewheel with your words and your antiques is a reflection of who he

:50:46. > :50:51.is and why people are so scared of Donald Trump. -- free will. Speaking

:50:52. > :50:55.of the free use of words, of which there has been a lot of in this

:50:56. > :50:59.campaign, there was for example that whole business about the insults,

:51:00. > :51:09.about Hillary Clinton calling the trump supporters a basket of

:51:10. > :51:12.deplorables and Tim Kaine had to defend that. But this is what he had

:51:13. > :51:18.to say about the insults. Donald Trump has called Becks against

:51:19. > :51:25.rapists and criminals, women slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting. -- has

:51:26. > :51:28.called Mexicans. He attacked an Indiana born federal judge and said

:51:29. > :51:36.he was unqualified because his parents were Mexican. He went after

:51:37. > :51:39.John McCain, a POW, and says he was a Jetty Road because he had been

:51:40. > :51:43.captured. He said African-Americans are living in hell and he

:51:44. > :51:47.perpetrated this outrageous and bigoted lie that President Obama is

:51:48. > :51:51.not a US citizen. If you want to have a society where people are

:51:52. > :51:56.respected and respect laws, you can't have somebody at the top who

:51:57. > :52:00.demeans everybody he talks about. You can't have someone at the top

:52:01. > :52:05.who demeans every group. What do you have to say to that? The recent Tim

:52:06. > :52:09.Kaine wanted to focus on policy tonight was because he didn't want

:52:10. > :52:13.to have to focus on the policies of Hillary Clinton. You could say

:52:14. > :52:17.Donald Trump has these tweets, Hillary Clinton has this record and

:52:18. > :52:22.it's not a very good one when you look at foreign policy and where

:52:23. > :52:27.America is today, where ISIS is today. North Korea. This Congress,

:52:28. > :52:32.including the vast majority of Democrats, had to pass legislation

:52:33. > :52:37.to get the Obama administration, including Hillary Clinton, to

:52:38. > :52:42.actually enforce the sanctions... We are talking about a man running for

:52:43. > :52:50.president. I understand... What I am saying is I would rather have to

:52:51. > :52:54.say... Donald Trump says something that hard to defend, but that is

:52:55. > :52:59.much easier to defend when they know what his policies will be that it is

:53:00. > :53:03.to defend a record that has not been clear. Just move to this question

:53:04. > :53:09.were Hillary Clinton was accused of insulting millions of Americans by

:53:10. > :53:15.saying some of the Trump supporters are deplorables. This was one of the

:53:16. > :53:20.key moments of the debate and one of the best moments for Senator Cain.

:53:21. > :53:24.When secretary Clinton said that, I won't defend it, because I don't

:53:25. > :53:31.think she should have said it. But she came out the next day and

:53:32. > :53:34.acknowledged it. Name me one this entire primary and general election

:53:35. > :53:40.web Donald Trump has apologised for making an offensive remark. After a

:53:41. > :53:44.relatively weak performance, and I am being kind, in that first debate,

:53:45. > :53:49.instead of doing what normal, professional candidates do, it is

:53:50. > :53:53.wedded be too bad, he engaged in a Twitter battle with Miss Universe.

:53:54. > :53:58.This is a man who wants to be president. This is how sad it is to

:53:59. > :54:10.live here right now. That is one view. In all seriousness, it's a sad

:54:11. > :54:14.statement went someone running for president thinks this is how you

:54:15. > :54:18.talk to the American people. How do you see tonight's debate, which

:54:19. > :54:22.probably won't be watched by anything like the millions who

:54:23. > :54:27.watched this debate, but how will it affect the framing and Donald

:54:28. > :54:31.Trump's preparation for the second of a? I think this was a great night

:54:32. > :54:35.for the Republican ticket. Mike Pence did them very proudly and I

:54:36. > :54:39.think Donald Trump should take some lessons. They don't have the same

:54:40. > :54:44.demeanour. He won't get up there and be as calm as Mike Pence was and I

:54:45. > :54:48.don't think people will want him to do that. Having said that, Mike

:54:49. > :54:51.Pence took every opportunity to work in what are the differences between

:54:52. > :54:55.our policy division and whether you agree with them or not? I don't

:54:56. > :54:59.think Donald Trump did that in the first debate and that was a missed

:55:00. > :55:02.opportunity. What does this debate mean for Hillary Clinton and her

:55:03. > :55:07.performance on Sunday night? I don't know because to be honest I think

:55:08. > :55:14.Tim Kaine had a job to do, to discredit Donald Trump and his

:55:15. > :55:17.position, but the next debate is a challenge for both candidates. It is

:55:18. > :55:22.a very different kind of debate because you have a broom full of

:55:23. > :55:29.undecided voters. You can't get into that nasty back and forth, where you

:55:30. > :55:35.can if you have a room full of people. That will backfire. So

:55:36. > :55:41.there's got to be a more positive argument. Thank you so much for

:55:42. > :55:46.joining us. Thank you to everyone for watching this BBC News special

:55:47. > :55:47.on the vice presidential debate and of course that second presidential

:55:48. > :56:06.debate on Sunday. Hurricane Matthew has been making

:56:07. > :56:09.the headlines recently, and it will continue to do

:56:10. > :56:13.so over the next few days,