0:00:02 > 0:00:06This summer saw some extraordinary events in British politics.
0:00:06 > 0:00:09A referendum split the country in two...
0:00:09 > 0:00:11I'm a Cornish fisherman. You're not.
0:00:11 > 0:00:14..the Conservatives turned in on themselves,
0:00:14 > 0:00:16pitting former allies against each other...
0:00:18 > 0:00:22..and at the heart of the maelstrom was one man
0:00:22 > 0:00:25whose actions were called backstabbing
0:00:25 > 0:00:29and who accidentally leant his name to the phrase "doing a Gove".
0:00:30 > 0:00:33Michael Gove is a divisive figure.
0:00:33 > 0:00:35When he was Education Secretary,
0:00:35 > 0:00:38he was attacked for being too tough on teachers.
0:00:38 > 0:00:40I think the assault on the profession
0:00:40 > 0:00:42is the worst that I've ever seen.
0:00:42 > 0:00:44Yet when he was Justice Secretary,
0:00:44 > 0:00:47he was accused of being too soft on prisoners.
0:00:47 > 0:00:50When will the Secretary of State get back his mojo
0:00:50 > 0:00:52and actually put the victims of crime
0:00:52 > 0:00:55at the heart of what he is doing?
0:00:55 > 0:01:00Michael Gove split with his close friend David Cameron over Europe,
0:01:00 > 0:01:05and then, more famously, deserted Boris Johnson at the 11th hour
0:01:05 > 0:01:09and launched his own bid to become Prime Minister instead.
0:01:09 > 0:01:12That was one of the few moments
0:01:12 > 0:01:15where the whole of Westminster gasps at once.
0:01:15 > 0:01:17Mr Gove, did you betray Boris, Mr Gove?
0:01:17 > 0:01:23The way in which I declared my stand for the leadership,
0:01:23 > 0:01:24I shouldn't have done it in that way.
0:01:24 > 0:01:27It was one of the most gigantic cases of cock-up
0:01:27 > 0:01:30in the history of British politics.
0:01:30 > 0:01:32I want to find out what drives Michael Gove
0:01:32 > 0:01:35and what part religion plays in his life.
0:01:35 > 0:01:38Religion makes you realise, literally,
0:01:38 > 0:01:42there but for the grace of God go you.
0:01:42 > 0:01:46I'm really intrigued to find out how Michael Gove squares his faith
0:01:46 > 0:01:49with his actions in the heat of political battle.
0:01:49 > 0:01:52He says he's a man of principle, but how does he feel
0:01:52 > 0:01:55now he's been taken out of the centre of politics
0:01:55 > 0:01:57and is on the back benches?
0:01:57 > 0:01:58Has it all been worth it?
0:02:09 > 0:02:14- What a year you have had! - Well, it's been a busy year, yes.
0:02:14 > 0:02:16How are you recovering, all right?
0:02:16 > 0:02:18- Fine. I'm looking forward to Christmas.- Are you?
0:02:18 > 0:02:21Well, I think we all are. Let's think about that later.
0:02:21 > 0:02:28Michael Andrew Gove was born on the 26th of August 1967 in Edinburgh.
0:02:28 > 0:02:31MUSIC: Even The Bad Times Are Good by The Tremeloes
0:02:35 > 0:02:38Shortly afterwards, he was given up for adoption.
0:02:38 > 0:02:40Tell me a bit about your birth mother,
0:02:40 > 0:02:42cos you know quite a lot about her, don't you?
0:02:42 > 0:02:46I knew that when I was born I was named Graham Logan,
0:02:46 > 0:02:50and I know that my birth mother was living in Edinburgh at the time
0:02:50 > 0:02:52and almost certainly a student.
0:02:52 > 0:02:55I was given up for adoption almost immediately.
0:02:55 > 0:02:59Then I spent the first four months of my life effectively in care.
0:02:59 > 0:03:03Obviously, I... I don't... I can't remember anything of it.
0:03:03 > 0:03:07What I do know is that my adoptive parents, my mum and dad,
0:03:07 > 0:03:10had been waiting to find the right child.
0:03:10 > 0:03:14It was the 22nd of December we got the phone call
0:03:14 > 0:03:17to say that they had a baby boy for us
0:03:17 > 0:03:20and would we like to come and see him.
0:03:20 > 0:03:23It was just magic.
0:03:23 > 0:03:27I arrived with them in Aberdeen just before Christmas in 1967.
0:03:27 > 0:03:30He was just so cuddly. A chubby.
0:03:33 > 0:03:36Michael was adopted by Ernest and Christine
0:03:36 > 0:03:38and became part of the Gove family,
0:03:38 > 0:03:41who for generations had earned their living from the sea.
0:03:43 > 0:03:45My dad ran a fish merchants' business.
0:03:48 > 0:03:51It had been set up by my grandfather,
0:03:51 > 0:03:54and Goves as far back as you can go
0:03:54 > 0:03:58lived by the sea and from the sea. Fish were the...
0:03:58 > 0:04:01It was the industry on which Aberdeen was built,
0:04:01 > 0:04:03on which its initial prosperity was built,
0:04:03 > 0:04:07and it was the business to which my grandad had devoted all his hours
0:04:07 > 0:04:12in order to build up, and which my dad then took on and ran from him.
0:04:12 > 0:04:16But the tradition wasn't destined to continue.
0:04:16 > 0:04:20Michael would take the Gove name in a different direction.
0:04:20 > 0:04:25When he was old enough, his dad took him down to the fish house.
0:04:25 > 0:04:28That was tragedy.
0:04:28 > 0:04:31His father, Ernest, he's lovely,
0:04:31 > 0:04:34he's really sporty and really into football,
0:04:34 > 0:04:37you know, a fisherman and all this sort of thing.
0:04:37 > 0:04:40He had this child that was sort of the opposite, you know?
0:04:40 > 0:04:43He didn't like to get his hands messed up.
0:04:44 > 0:04:48He said to his dad, "This is not for me."
0:04:50 > 0:04:52Despite their differences,
0:04:52 > 0:04:54there was absolutely no doubt in Michael's mind
0:04:54 > 0:04:57that this was the family where he belonged.
0:04:57 > 0:05:01So, I mean, Michael was incredibly lucky
0:05:01 > 0:05:04to land such a great pair of parents, I think.
0:05:04 > 0:05:09I think that he owes an enormous debt to both of them.
0:05:09 > 0:05:12That's why he's never tried to find his real mother.
0:05:12 > 0:05:13I've felt, naturally, curious,
0:05:13 > 0:05:15but I've often felt that if I were to try to make contact
0:05:15 > 0:05:17with my birth mother, even though my own mum has said
0:05:17 > 0:05:19that's absolutely fine,
0:05:19 > 0:05:24she might take it as me saying that her love hadn't been enough.
0:05:24 > 0:05:27- You can't be disloyal to your mum. - That's the feeling I have, yes.
0:05:27 > 0:05:28That must be...
0:05:28 > 0:05:30Yes, just after he was born, but before the christening.
0:05:30 > 0:05:33Being adopted has had a profound influence on Michael
0:05:33 > 0:05:35and still shapes how he sees himself today.
0:05:37 > 0:05:40'It's inevitably a risk if you accept someone into your life,'
0:05:40 > 0:05:42albeit that they're only four months old,
0:05:42 > 0:05:46whom you know nothing about other than the barest bones
0:05:46 > 0:05:48of their identity,
0:05:48 > 0:05:51and so therefore I've always felt a particular sense
0:05:51 > 0:05:53of wanting to convince my parents
0:05:53 > 0:05:56that they didn't make a mistake in taking me in.
0:05:56 > 0:06:02Well, I just used to say to him, "Look, be nice to your elders,
0:06:02 > 0:06:06"you know, and treat people with respect."
0:06:08 > 0:06:13I think he's done that, you know, our Michael, yeah.
0:06:13 > 0:06:16They've always been very careful to make sure
0:06:16 > 0:06:17that I don't get above myself.
0:06:17 > 0:06:19If ever I've been arrogant or bumptious,
0:06:19 > 0:06:21and I certainly have been at various points in my career,
0:06:21 > 0:06:25it's always been despite, not because of, the upbringing I had.
0:06:25 > 0:06:30They've always been keen to make sure that I never forget
0:06:30 > 0:06:35that I was the little boy who was naughty, forgetful,
0:06:35 > 0:06:38difficult, all of these things.
0:06:38 > 0:06:42Michael's mother was also keen to instil another quality in her son.
0:06:42 > 0:06:46Where was church in your childhood? Were your parents religious?
0:06:46 > 0:06:48My mum was religious, my dad not,
0:06:48 > 0:06:50so I used to go with my mum to a church
0:06:50 > 0:06:55called Causewayend Church, which is now St Stephen's.
0:06:55 > 0:06:57Church became a regular part of Michael's childhood,
0:06:57 > 0:07:01attending Sunday school and joining the Boys' Brigade.
0:07:01 > 0:07:03When you're a child in church, though,
0:07:03 > 0:07:09it is very hard to grasp some of the things that are said, some of the...
0:07:09 > 0:07:12some of the mystery and magic of the religion.
0:07:12 > 0:07:15Mm. I... I think it was once I reached a particular age,
0:07:15 > 0:07:17I was asked to become a Sunday-school teacher myself.
0:07:17 > 0:07:20I think it was at that point that I began to ask myself questions
0:07:20 > 0:07:23about what I genuinely believed - was I simply accepting,
0:07:23 > 0:07:26as a child would, what their parents,
0:07:26 > 0:07:29or in this case my mum, said was good for them,
0:07:29 > 0:07:33or did I now have a chance to make my own judgment?
0:07:33 > 0:07:37The more I reflected on it, the more I thought and prayed,
0:07:37 > 0:07:44the more I was convinced by the truths of the Christian faith.
0:07:44 > 0:07:49It was a process of deepening and intensification and reflection
0:07:49 > 0:07:54rather than a single, special moment.
0:07:54 > 0:07:55He's quite spiritual, Michael.
0:07:55 > 0:07:57I mean, he's much more spiritual than me.
0:07:57 > 0:08:01I mean, he properly goes to church and actually,
0:08:01 > 0:08:03sort of, you know, prays.
0:08:03 > 0:08:07You know, whereas I sort of go to church
0:08:07 > 0:08:10and have a coffee and a gossip.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13There have been moments when I've had, you know, doubts,
0:08:13 > 0:08:15and there've certainly been moments when I've behaved in a way
0:08:15 > 0:08:17which is completely inconsistent
0:08:17 > 0:08:20with the profession of Christian belief.
0:08:20 > 0:08:24He likes to sit and contemplate.
0:08:24 > 0:08:27He's quite hard on himself as well,
0:08:27 > 0:08:31and so I think he enjoys going to church because it allows him
0:08:31 > 0:08:36a chance to have a sort of dialogue with himself, with God,
0:08:36 > 0:08:39about how he feels about how things are going.
0:08:41 > 0:08:42From an early age,
0:08:42 > 0:08:46his parents began to notice something different about Michael.
0:08:46 > 0:08:50Well, his mum told me that when he was about sort of four or five,
0:08:50 > 0:08:54or maybe a bit sooner, they kind of realised that he was really clever.
0:08:56 > 0:08:59He really just couldn't pass a book shop.
0:08:59 > 0:09:01I had to get books for him all the time.
0:09:01 > 0:09:05He always carried a book with him, our Michael.
0:09:05 > 0:09:07The young Michael excelled at primary school,
0:09:07 > 0:09:09and his parents sent him to one of the best
0:09:09 > 0:09:12public schools in Aberdeen - Robert Gordon College.
0:09:13 > 0:09:16Its motto, be the best that you can be.
0:09:17 > 0:09:21My parents sacrificed a lot in order to pay for the fees for
0:09:21 > 0:09:24me to go to school, and then while I was at school,
0:09:24 > 0:09:28my dad's business went to the wall, he sold it on.
0:09:28 > 0:09:31At that time, I was lucky and I managed to win a scholarship
0:09:31 > 0:09:32while I was there.
0:09:32 > 0:09:36That helped to pay most of the fees, so I was able to carry on there.
0:09:37 > 0:09:42When the Michael Gove hand went up in the air,
0:09:42 > 0:09:47I'd be mentally thinking, "What's he going to ask me this time?"
0:09:47 > 0:09:52And, more importantly, "Will I know the answer?"
0:09:52 > 0:09:55- You were a bit of a swot at school. - I was a speccy swot.
0:09:55 > 0:09:58You talk to any of my teachers, they'll also say that there
0:09:58 > 0:10:00was a willingness to cause trouble sometimes.
0:10:00 > 0:10:02A naughtiness, a mischievous streak in me.
0:10:02 > 0:10:08Apparently he was an absolute nightmare as a child to teach.
0:10:08 > 0:10:11Apparently he tortured his teachers horribly.
0:10:11 > 0:10:14He does have a kind of really subversive streak.
0:10:14 > 0:10:17At my worst, I was just a complete smart aleck, and I would ask
0:10:17 > 0:10:21the clever-dick questions from the back of the class.
0:10:21 > 0:10:25Being a clever dick paid off. Michael Gove won a place at Oxford.
0:10:25 > 0:10:28He left his home and his parents in Aberdeen
0:10:28 > 0:10:31and arrived at one of the most elite educational institutions
0:10:31 > 0:10:34in the world.
0:10:34 > 0:10:38In 1985, you went up to Oxford, Lady Margaret Hall, to read English.
0:10:38 > 0:10:44How different was that, the Oxford spires et cetera, to Aberdeen?
0:10:44 > 0:10:45It was... It was different.
0:10:45 > 0:10:49There were all sorts of people who were incredibly self-confident,
0:10:49 > 0:10:52who appeared already to have a huge network of friends, you know,
0:10:52 > 0:10:54born-to-succeed individuals,
0:10:54 > 0:10:57so I felt in my first couple of days and weeks there,
0:10:57 > 0:11:00as I think lots of students probably do
0:11:00 > 0:11:02when they first arrive at university,
0:11:02 > 0:11:06nervous and wondering if I would ever really fit in
0:11:06 > 0:11:07and make friends.
0:11:07 > 0:11:09But Michael did make friends.
0:11:09 > 0:11:13He became immersed in a world of intellect and privilege
0:11:13 > 0:11:16and a place where influential allegiances were formed.
0:11:17 > 0:11:19Well, I met Michael Gove when I was at university,
0:11:19 > 0:11:22because I was interested in debating and there was
0:11:22 > 0:11:25a debating society in Oxford called the Oxford Union.
0:11:25 > 0:11:28Now to conclude the case for Oxford, I have the greatest pleasure
0:11:28 > 0:11:30in welcoming Mr Michael Gove.
0:11:33 > 0:11:37Michael was a... He was sort of a legendary debater, really.
0:11:38 > 0:11:40Mr Speaker, sir, ladies and gentlemen...
0:11:40 > 0:11:41Very effective, very clever.
0:11:41 > 0:11:44You said that liberty was so precious it must be rationed.
0:11:44 > 0:11:45Lenin originally said that.
0:11:45 > 0:11:48He was just really well known throughout the university.
0:11:48 > 0:11:51And it's for that reason that I seek to propose the motion tonight.
0:11:51 > 0:11:52Thank you.
0:11:53 > 0:11:56But there were other students who were also destined
0:11:56 > 0:11:58to make an impression.
0:11:58 > 0:12:02There were a lot of people who were there in my time who ended up
0:12:02 > 0:12:04playing a big role in politics.
0:12:04 > 0:12:05David Cameron was here.
0:12:05 > 0:12:08He was at Brasenose at the time that you were at Lady Margaret Hall.
0:12:08 > 0:12:11Where was he? Was he in his final year as well?
0:12:11 > 0:12:13- David was an exact contemporary of mine.- Ah.- So we were both...
0:12:13 > 0:12:18We both arrived in 1985, we both graduated in 1988.
0:12:18 > 0:12:20I didn't know David at the time that I was at Oxford.
0:12:20 > 0:12:21- Never met him? - Never met him.
0:12:21 > 0:12:24I'm sure we might have been in the same room at the same time
0:12:24 > 0:12:28at some event or other, but I only met him subsequently.
0:12:28 > 0:12:33But there was another future Tory Michael Gove did encounter.
0:12:33 > 0:12:36You met Boris Johnson there, I think, on your first day?
0:12:36 > 0:12:39- In my first week at university, I bumped into Boris.- Where?
0:12:39 > 0:12:41- In the Union bar.- Of course.
0:12:41 > 0:12:46So Boris was, at that point, he was running
0:12:46 > 0:12:47to become president of the Oxford Union,
0:12:47 > 0:12:50- though I didn't know it when I first met him.- Mm-hmm.
0:12:50 > 0:12:52Honourable members wishing to vote in favour of the motion
0:12:52 > 0:12:54will occupy the benches on my right...
0:12:54 > 0:12:59The same mop of blond hair, the same apparently absent-minded
0:12:59 > 0:13:03but in fact incredibly focused speaking style.
0:13:03 > 0:13:10There being 167 votes in favour of the motion.
0:13:10 > 0:13:15The same good humour and the same, you know...
0:13:15 > 0:13:18What's the word? Romantic desire to be at the centre of things.
0:13:18 > 0:13:21I declare the motion overwhelmingly carried,
0:13:21 > 0:13:24and I close the house at 12:18am.
0:13:24 > 0:13:25APPLAUSE
0:13:26 > 0:13:31- And for the first time, you became his campaign manager.- Well, I was...
0:13:31 > 0:13:35At that time, I was his supporter rather than campaign manager.
0:13:35 > 0:13:39I said at the time, I think, that I was a votary of the cult of Boris.
0:13:39 > 0:13:43He was the big man on campus and I was one of the new freshers
0:13:43 > 0:13:46who'd arrived who was one of his supporters.
0:13:46 > 0:13:50Of course, this was a period, the 1980s,
0:13:50 > 0:13:54when political passions ran high.
0:13:54 > 0:13:57The mid-'80s were a pivotal time in British politics.
0:13:57 > 0:14:01HE EXCLAIMS, CHEERING
0:14:01 > 0:14:04The miners had been defeated.
0:14:04 > 0:14:08Margaret Thatcher was elected Prime Minister for the third time.
0:14:08 > 0:14:10You know, we've got a big job to do.
0:14:10 > 0:14:14During this time, Michael Gove began to shape his own political views.
0:14:14 > 0:14:16Well, my recollection of Michael at university
0:14:16 > 0:14:17was that he was very politically motivated
0:14:17 > 0:14:20in the sense that he was obviously interested in politics
0:14:20 > 0:14:23and interested in ideas and had strong views on politics.
0:14:23 > 0:14:26When I was at school in 1983,
0:14:26 > 0:14:30I stood as the Labour candidate in the school's general election.
0:14:30 > 0:14:34When I was, you know, in my early teenage years,
0:14:34 > 0:14:35I was very interested in politics,
0:14:35 > 0:14:37but I would have said that I was left wing.
0:14:37 > 0:14:39I joined the Labour Party in Aberdeen.
0:14:39 > 0:14:42But by the time I arrived at university, I...
0:14:42 > 0:14:45I pretty much knew that I was a Tory.
0:14:47 > 0:14:52But at university, Michael acquired a taste for more than just politics.
0:14:52 > 0:14:55I discovered the pleasures of Oxford's pubs.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58THEY SING TUNE
0:15:00 > 0:15:04I'm afraid I probably spent more time in the White Horse
0:15:04 > 0:15:06than I did in the Bodleian Library while I was there.
0:15:06 > 0:15:07Well, that's not a bad thing.
0:15:07 > 0:15:10I think that's what students do need to do.
0:15:10 > 0:15:12So you left university. Did you get a good degree?
0:15:12 > 0:15:14Well, I... I got a better degree
0:15:14 > 0:15:17than most people thought I was going to get. I got a 2:1,
0:15:17 > 0:15:21so I was...em, eh, relieved by that.
0:15:21 > 0:15:24I got a letter from one of my tutors afterwards saying
0:15:24 > 0:15:26I think words to the effect of,
0:15:26 > 0:15:29"Dear Michael, congratulations on your degree.
0:15:29 > 0:15:32"I have to say, however astonished you were,
0:15:32 > 0:15:35"you weren't half as amazed as we were.
0:15:35 > 0:15:37"One piece of advice for the future -
0:15:37 > 0:15:39"never sail so close to the wind ever again."
0:15:39 > 0:15:42I'm not sure whether or not it was advice I actually took.
0:15:42 > 0:15:44- I was going to say. - But it was very well meant.
0:15:44 > 0:15:47Very well meant.
0:15:47 > 0:15:50After university, Michael Gove returned to Aberdeen
0:15:50 > 0:15:53and joined the local paper as a trainee journalist.
0:15:53 > 0:15:55He promptly got involved in a dispute
0:15:55 > 0:15:58about newspaper staff joining the union
0:15:58 > 0:16:01and rather surprisingly ended up on a picket line.
0:16:04 > 0:16:07Another committed Tory was a trainee on the paper
0:16:07 > 0:16:09when the dispute broke out.
0:16:09 > 0:16:11Surely as a Conservative I should believe in freedom of choice?
0:16:11 > 0:16:15I believe that people should have the choice to be members of a union
0:16:15 > 0:16:17and to be governed by collective bargaining
0:16:17 > 0:16:19or to sign individual contracts if they wish.
0:16:26 > 0:16:29Michael's ambitions were bigger than local journalism,
0:16:29 > 0:16:33and in 1991, he moved to London, reporting for the BBC.
0:16:33 > 0:16:37Well, I first knew Michael Gove on On The Record,
0:16:37 > 0:16:40which was a BBC lunchtime politics programme.
0:16:42 > 0:16:46He was then a baby-faced Scottish Thatcherite.
0:16:46 > 0:16:49The Conservatives believe that tax cuts will win them votes.
0:16:49 > 0:16:51Incredibly polite,
0:16:51 > 0:16:55very argumentative and very quick in argument.
0:16:55 > 0:16:57And the bad news doesn't end there.
0:16:57 > 0:17:02Wonderful colleague to have, because he would argue with anything,
0:17:02 > 0:17:07but he would do it so politely that you didn't feel offended in any way.
0:17:08 > 0:17:12In 1996, Michael Gove started working for The Times.
0:17:12 > 0:17:16There he came across a fellow journalist called Sarah Vine.
0:17:16 > 0:17:19They met on a work skiing trip.
0:17:19 > 0:17:24I'd never been skiing before. I was persuaded to go by a mutual friend.
0:17:24 > 0:17:26Someone dropped out at the last moment,
0:17:26 > 0:17:30and Sarah was the last-minute replacement.
0:17:30 > 0:17:35So we met for the first time on the train going to this ski resort.
0:17:35 > 0:17:37Someone said, "Michael Gove's going," and I thought,
0:17:37 > 0:17:41"Oh, no, that's like your boss going on holiday with you."
0:17:41 > 0:17:45We got there and he was just the funniest person there.
0:17:45 > 0:17:48I mean, he was hilarious because he couldn't ski at all.
0:17:50 > 0:17:51Sarah had been brought up in Italy,
0:17:51 > 0:17:55skiing in the Italian Alps, and was a natural.
0:17:55 > 0:17:56I was not.
0:17:56 > 0:17:58He joined a beginners' group,
0:17:58 > 0:18:04so it was Michael and about 20 four-year-old French children.
0:18:06 > 0:18:07I can do it better than you.
0:18:07 > 0:18:09All of whom easily outpaced me.
0:18:09 > 0:18:14At that point, I was convinced that this was going to be
0:18:14 > 0:18:16one of the worst weeks of my life.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20After about three days, I said to him, "I think you should stop
0:18:20 > 0:18:22"wasting your money and I'll show you the basics."
0:18:22 > 0:18:27And we fell in love as Sarah taught me how to ski.
0:18:27 > 0:18:32He's very entertaining. That's why I married him, really.
0:18:32 > 0:18:34Two things, really - the fact that he's so kind
0:18:34 > 0:18:37and the fact that he is such good company.
0:18:37 > 0:18:40I mean, you're never bored with Michael.
0:18:40 > 0:18:45You might be extremely annoyed or you might be frustrated,
0:18:45 > 0:18:48you might be furious because he's just won another argument
0:18:48 > 0:18:52or whatever it is, but you are never bored.
0:18:52 > 0:18:54Michael and Sarah married,
0:18:54 > 0:18:58and on their wedding guest list were some rather familiar names.
0:18:58 > 0:19:01- You got married in 2001 in France. - Yes, yes.
0:19:01 > 0:19:05- I think you had about 60 guests. - Yes.
0:19:05 > 0:19:07- The Camerons were there too.- Yes.
0:19:07 > 0:19:09The Camerons were there, the Osbornes were there...
0:19:09 > 0:19:14I mean, there were lots of people who have gone on to sort of become
0:19:14 > 0:19:19incredibly famous who, at the time, were just sort of ordinary...
0:19:19 > 0:19:21I mean, ordinary friends.
0:19:22 > 0:19:25These friends had been brought together by similar views
0:19:25 > 0:19:27about the world.
0:19:27 > 0:19:29Michael Gove shared a vision with David Cameron and
0:19:29 > 0:19:33George Osborne about how Britain should be run.
0:19:33 > 0:19:35Together with other young Conservatives,
0:19:35 > 0:19:37they became known as the Notting Hill set,
0:19:37 > 0:19:40a group who would define Conservative politics
0:19:40 > 0:19:42for over a decade.
0:19:42 > 0:19:45I think politics is driven by ideas,
0:19:45 > 0:19:47and we wanted to put forward ideas
0:19:47 > 0:19:49that would help the Conservative Party
0:19:49 > 0:19:53get back on its feet and drive a new agenda.
0:19:53 > 0:19:56Well, I think Michael Gove was probably David Cameron's
0:19:56 > 0:19:59second closest political friend, after George Osborne.
0:19:59 > 0:20:03He was a guy he leant on intellectually and, you know,
0:20:03 > 0:20:04they became quite close friends.
0:20:04 > 0:20:07Political friendships are slightly odd things,
0:20:07 > 0:20:10they always have underlying agendas,
0:20:10 > 0:20:13but insofar as you can be good friends in politics,
0:20:13 > 0:20:17Michael Gove and David Cameron were pretty close.
0:20:17 > 0:20:19The friendship became more than just political
0:20:19 > 0:20:22as their families began to spend time together.
0:20:22 > 0:20:24But I did know David and Samantha quite well,
0:20:24 > 0:20:27not least because they lived just around the corner
0:20:27 > 0:20:30from where we're sitting now and where I still live.
0:20:30 > 0:20:33- Yeah, and you would holiday together.- Yes.
0:20:33 > 0:20:36You know, supper, stuff like that.
0:20:36 > 0:20:40'Play dates. Picking children up, that kind of stuff.'
0:20:40 > 0:20:42Godparents to their children.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45- Sarah is godparent to...- Florence.
0:20:45 > 0:20:47..Florence, exactly, the Camerons' youngest.
0:20:47 > 0:20:51Very fizzy, vibrant people.
0:20:53 > 0:20:56By 2002, Michael Gove had become closely connected
0:20:56 > 0:20:59with David Cameron and the Conservative Party.
0:20:59 > 0:21:02Although now a successful journalist,
0:21:02 > 0:21:05Michael had a desire to join his friend in politics.
0:21:07 > 0:21:11When we got married, he said, "Don't worry, I won't go into politics."
0:21:11 > 0:21:15I thought, "This is good. Fantastic."
0:21:15 > 0:21:18Then that lasted about two years, I think, then he said to me,
0:21:18 > 0:21:21"Do you mind? You know how I said I wouldn't go into politics?"
0:21:21 > 0:21:24I think he's felt, "Actually, now is the time
0:21:24 > 0:21:28"to get my hands dirty and actually put into practice what I believe."
0:21:28 > 0:21:35How much of your Christian belief made you go into politics?
0:21:35 > 0:21:39It's difficult to know sometimes where faith ends
0:21:39 > 0:21:43and other parts of your character begin.
0:21:43 > 0:21:45But one of the things that I did think is
0:21:45 > 0:21:48that you've got an obligation to put something back.
0:21:48 > 0:21:54You've got an obligation to use whatever talents you have
0:21:54 > 0:21:56to help other people.
0:21:56 > 0:22:01Of course, politics is an arena full of ego and ambition,
0:22:01 > 0:22:05but almost every politician I know
0:22:05 > 0:22:08is driven by a desire to make the world a better place,
0:22:08 > 0:22:10to help others.
0:22:10 > 0:22:13So I think there's an element of Michael where he thinks,
0:22:13 > 0:22:16"Because I'm adopted I've been given a second chance."
0:22:16 > 0:22:20He's all about redemption. He wants to... He wants to...
0:22:20 > 0:22:23I don't know, he just wants to make things better.
0:22:23 > 0:22:25You know, that's his thing.
0:22:25 > 0:22:28I think that at its best, and I hope certainly in my case,
0:22:28 > 0:22:32that religion makes you realise, literally,
0:22:32 > 0:22:36there but for the grace of God go you.
0:22:36 > 0:22:40Life can be tough and it can be particularly tough
0:22:40 > 0:22:44for those who don't have some of the advantages that I've enjoyed,
0:22:44 > 0:22:47and so therefore what it does is that it gives you an opportunity
0:22:47 > 0:22:50to examine your own life and to try to do better,
0:22:50 > 0:22:52but also to look at the lives of other people
0:22:52 > 0:22:54and to try to help them.
0:22:54 > 0:22:58It was his old friend David Cameron who gave Michael Gove the push
0:22:58 > 0:23:01to put his ideals into action.
0:23:01 > 0:23:03I want a party that looks to the future,
0:23:03 > 0:23:07a party that's a 21st-century party that is modern and compassionate
0:23:07 > 0:23:11and understands the aspirations and hopes and dreams of the people.
0:23:11 > 0:23:13Cameron was putting together this team to sort of take over the
0:23:13 > 0:23:16Tory Party, and he wanted his A team on the pitch,
0:23:16 > 0:23:19and he felt that Gove was the sort of intellectual firepower of
0:23:19 > 0:23:22the gang and he encouraged him to get into politics.
0:23:22 > 0:23:26So how did Mr Cameron persuade you to stand as a Tory candidate?
0:23:27 > 0:23:31It all happened in public in that I'd written an article
0:23:31 > 0:23:34criticising the Conservatives for some of the mistakes
0:23:34 > 0:23:36that they were making,
0:23:36 > 0:23:40and David was a backbencher who had a column in the Guardian.
0:23:40 > 0:23:43So he wrote a column and addressed it to me, basically saying,
0:23:43 > 0:23:46"Well, if you believe things, it's not enough
0:23:46 > 0:23:49"simply to argue for things in an article.
0:23:49 > 0:23:52"If you believe things, try to make a difference."
0:23:54 > 0:23:59In 2005, Michael stood as the Conservative Party candidate
0:23:59 > 0:24:01for Surrey Heath, and on the 6th of May,
0:24:01 > 0:24:03he was elected as a Member of Parliament.
0:24:05 > 0:24:06It's like being a new boy at school.
0:24:06 > 0:24:11I mean, Westminster is like a big boarding school. It's very exciting.
0:24:11 > 0:24:15When you're an MP, no-one knows anything about you.
0:24:15 > 0:24:19You know, for the first few years, it was just very easy and quiet.
0:24:19 > 0:24:22He just really enjoyed it.
0:24:22 > 0:24:27But that relative anonymity was about to become a thing of the past.
0:24:33 > 0:24:37In 2010, the country went to the polls.
0:24:37 > 0:24:42With 48 hours to go till we vote, the Prime Minister is trying to tell
0:24:42 > 0:24:47the country, "You may want change, but you simply can't risk it."
0:24:47 > 0:24:53After 13 years in Government, Labour would be defeated.
0:24:53 > 0:24:56Ten o'clock, and this is what we're saying - it's going to be
0:24:56 > 0:25:00a hung parliament with the Conservatives as the largest party.
0:25:00 > 0:25:03In its place there was a coalition government,
0:25:03 > 0:25:06led by a new Conservative Prime Minister, David Cameron.
0:25:06 > 0:25:11I'm delighted to be standing here with the new Deputy Prime Minister,
0:25:11 > 0:25:13the two of us together leading this historic
0:25:13 > 0:25:15Liberal Democrat-Conservative administration.
0:25:15 > 0:25:19He appointed Michael Gove as his Secretary of State for Education.
0:25:22 > 0:25:262010, you became Education Secretary. Was it a job you wanted?
0:25:26 > 0:25:28Oh, yes. The, um...
0:25:30 > 0:25:32I had spent three years in opposition,
0:25:32 > 0:25:36shadowing Ed Balls when he was Education Secretary,
0:25:36 > 0:25:39and I was absolutely determined that, if I got the chance to,
0:25:39 > 0:25:41that we'd make big changes.
0:25:43 > 0:25:47I'm Michael, nice to meet you. What's your name?
0:25:47 > 0:25:50He began as this sort of great reformer who was bringing in
0:25:50 > 0:25:53rigour and new standards and tougher exams.
0:25:53 > 0:25:56He said his aim was to improve children's attainment
0:25:56 > 0:25:59and give heads more control.
0:25:59 > 0:26:02But the teachers themselves were not convinced.
0:26:03 > 0:26:07We work in a culture of fear, not one of working together.
0:26:14 > 0:26:17If Ofsted is a cause of fear then...
0:26:19 > 0:26:21AUDIENCE MURMURS
0:26:21 > 0:26:24..then I'm, you know, grateful for your candour,
0:26:24 > 0:26:28but I'm afraid we're going to have to part company.
0:26:28 > 0:26:31Michael Gove was perceived as a horror show by a lot of teachers
0:26:31 > 0:26:35and thought that here's a guy who was a sort of dyed-in-the-wool Tory
0:26:35 > 0:26:38who was trying to wreck their profession.
0:26:38 > 0:26:40They don't see you as a human being at all.
0:26:40 > 0:26:44They see you as a sort of caricature, you know,
0:26:44 > 0:26:47a monster, really. You have to be quite tough.
0:26:47 > 0:26:49CHANTING: Gove must go! Gove must go!
0:26:49 > 0:26:53He got himself involved in just needless conflict
0:26:53 > 0:26:57with teachers and the teaching establishment.
0:26:57 > 0:27:00He should have concentrated much more on his central message,
0:27:00 > 0:27:03which didn't always come across, which was that he was about
0:27:03 > 0:27:08raising standards for everyone and especially people on lower incomes.
0:27:08 > 0:27:10You got a great deal of criticism not just from
0:27:10 > 0:27:13- teachers but from parents as well. - Yes.
0:27:13 > 0:27:16I've recently been to a parents' evening,
0:27:16 > 0:27:19I do not understand the grades on the report.
0:27:19 > 0:27:21I had to have the teacher explain it to me.
0:27:21 > 0:27:26Well, every time that you change exams and you change curricula,
0:27:26 > 0:27:28there's always that change-over period where people,
0:27:28 > 0:27:31having got used to one system, have to get used to another.
0:27:31 > 0:27:32But why turn it upside down?
0:27:32 > 0:27:36The change was necessary in order to deal with the way in which
0:27:36 > 0:27:39more and more people were getting qualifications
0:27:39 > 0:27:41that employers didn't trust.
0:27:41 > 0:27:45The other thing was that people were arriving at university
0:27:45 > 0:27:47really bright but without the skills
0:27:47 > 0:27:50of spelling, grammar and punctuation,
0:27:50 > 0:27:55or essay writing, or deep mathematical ability.
0:27:55 > 0:27:58The children would come home with an enormous amount of homework.
0:27:58 > 0:28:01They come home, they might have ten minutes, a quick cup of tea,
0:28:01 > 0:28:03and then it's work and it's work and it's work.
0:28:03 > 0:28:07This is producing children with tremendous anxiety.
0:28:07 > 0:28:12I think that schoolwork, properly set, can give children
0:28:12 > 0:28:16a sense of achievement and purpose and higher self-esteem.
0:28:16 > 0:28:19Yes, but properly set is the thing, but they don't get a minute.
0:28:19 > 0:28:21Every weekend, they're working.
0:28:21 > 0:28:24Erm, I have the chance to help my son with his homework
0:28:24 > 0:28:27now that he's in secondary school, and my daughter as well,
0:28:27 > 0:28:29but I think that the amount that they're set,
0:28:29 > 0:28:31while it's demanding, it's not excessive.
0:28:31 > 0:28:35I think that it equips them to succeed in the world outside.
0:28:35 > 0:28:37But what I'll say to you is when your children
0:28:37 > 0:28:41get to GCSEs and A levels, you will see the difference and you'll see
0:28:41 > 0:28:43them stressing and you'll see them perhaps sitting up
0:28:43 > 0:28:45at two in the morning still writing essays.
0:28:45 > 0:28:50The other thing is the schools are now obviously very keen
0:28:50 > 0:28:54on pushing all the successes and GCSEs through,
0:28:54 > 0:28:58but what happens is they're not necessarily learning to love
0:28:58 > 0:29:01their subject, it's all about the grades.
0:29:01 > 0:29:02I think...
0:29:02 > 0:29:06I agree that there have been some exams
0:29:06 > 0:29:10- and indeed some schools that have...- I'd say the majority.
0:29:10 > 0:29:14..that have treated education as an exercise in ticking boxes
0:29:14 > 0:29:15or jumping through hoops.
0:29:15 > 0:29:18One of the reasons that we did change was to make them less
0:29:18 > 0:29:22exercises in box ticking and more exercises in deep thought,
0:29:22 > 0:29:25but so many of the changes that we brought about
0:29:25 > 0:29:29were designed to instil a love of subject in children
0:29:29 > 0:29:32and to instil, in particular, a love of literature, history,
0:29:32 > 0:29:35scientific exploration, mathematical reasoning.
0:29:35 > 0:29:37Hmm.
0:29:37 > 0:29:40I can guarantee that there'll be parents up and down the land
0:29:40 > 0:29:44saying to you, "That doesn't happen in our school, mate."
0:29:44 > 0:29:46Why do you think you lost the job?
0:29:46 > 0:29:52I think, ultimately, I got involved in too many arguments.
0:29:52 > 0:29:54As to whether or not everything I did was right, it's still,
0:29:54 > 0:29:57for me, too soon to make that judgment.
0:29:57 > 0:30:01I'm really heartened by the fact that there are people who are,
0:30:01 > 0:30:03I think, objective about it,
0:30:03 > 0:30:05who think that education improved over those four years.
0:30:08 > 0:30:11But after four years as Education Secretary,
0:30:11 > 0:30:14Michael Gove was certainly not achieving high marks
0:30:14 > 0:30:15in the popularity stakes.
0:30:16 > 0:30:22Teachers didn't give him any credit for any of the reforms he'd made,
0:30:22 > 0:30:25and David Cameron's polling advisor just said,
0:30:25 > 0:30:28"Look, this guy is completely toxic, you've got to move him."
0:30:31 > 0:30:34- Did David Cameron call you into the office and say...- Yes.
0:30:34 > 0:30:36.."Michael..."?
0:30:36 > 0:30:38Once the Prime Minister says, "I'd like to move you,"
0:30:38 > 0:30:41if you say, "No, I insist on staying,"
0:30:41 > 0:30:44then, you know, the clock is ticking.
0:30:44 > 0:30:47But that wasn't quite the end of the matter.
0:30:47 > 0:30:49Max Hastings, at the Daily Mail,
0:30:49 > 0:30:51wrote an article saying it was a shoddy day's work
0:30:51 > 0:30:53that David Cameron would live to regret,
0:30:53 > 0:30:55and Sarah Vine tweeted a link to that article.
0:30:55 > 0:30:57I get a bit Italian about these things.
0:30:57 > 0:30:59I was really cross with them.
0:30:59 > 0:31:01Michael worked his absolute heart out
0:31:01 > 0:31:05and the teachers hated it and the unions hated it
0:31:05 > 0:31:07and he took all that opprobrium
0:31:07 > 0:31:09and all of those people saying horrible things,
0:31:09 > 0:31:13and I think just suddenly having the rug pulled out
0:31:13 > 0:31:15from underneath you like that was just bad form.
0:31:15 > 0:31:18One of the, you know, astonishing things about politics
0:31:18 > 0:31:22is the way that spouses sometimes get involved,
0:31:22 > 0:31:25fight battles on their husbands' behalf.
0:31:25 > 0:31:30And, you know, Sarah Vine was possibly the most
0:31:30 > 0:31:33sort of unguided missile in British politics.
0:31:35 > 0:31:39In 2015, the country went back to the polls, and this time,
0:31:39 > 0:31:42the Conservatives won an outright majority.
0:31:43 > 0:31:46I've just been to see Her Majesty the Queen
0:31:46 > 0:31:50and I will now form a majority Conservative government.
0:31:53 > 0:31:57For Michael Gove, it meant a new appointment to Lord Chancellor
0:31:57 > 0:32:00and Secretary of State for Justice.
0:32:00 > 0:32:03All the lawyers thought, "This is going to be a complete nightmare,
0:32:03 > 0:32:05"it's just going to be like it was when he was at Education,"
0:32:05 > 0:32:08and they were expecting to be sort of just like the teachers,
0:32:08 > 0:32:09loathing his guts.
0:32:14 > 0:32:17Almost the first thing he did was to go round the prisons,
0:32:17 > 0:32:19and I remember him coming home and saying,
0:32:19 > 0:32:20"You know, this has got to change."
0:32:23 > 0:32:24What he was doing in Justice
0:32:24 > 0:32:27was exactly the same as he was doing in Education -
0:32:27 > 0:32:29he was saying, "Everybody can have
0:32:29 > 0:32:31"a decent life and a decent start
0:32:31 > 0:32:34"and it's our responsibility, moral responsibility,
0:32:34 > 0:32:36"to ensure that we do that."
0:32:38 > 0:32:40I wonder, from his experience in Education,
0:32:40 > 0:32:46how much he would have delivered on his wonderful words,
0:32:46 > 0:32:50but, you know, he seriously did say all the right things
0:32:50 > 0:32:52about reforming the prison system.
0:32:52 > 0:32:53It's because I'm a Conservative
0:32:53 > 0:32:55I believe that evil must be punished,
0:32:55 > 0:32:57but it's also because I'm a Conservative and a Christian
0:32:57 > 0:32:59that I believe in redemption
0:32:59 > 0:33:02and I think the purpose of our prison system
0:33:02 > 0:33:05and our criminal justice system is to keep people safe
0:33:05 > 0:33:06by making people better.
0:33:06 > 0:33:11Was it something about your Christian beliefs
0:33:11 > 0:33:14that helped you think you could reform prisons?
0:33:14 > 0:33:20Well, my...my beliefs influenced how I did both jobs.
0:33:20 > 0:33:23One of the things that really drove me
0:33:23 > 0:33:27was a belief that people are capable of rehabilitation and redemption
0:33:27 > 0:33:29and that no-one should be defined
0:33:29 > 0:33:33by the mistakes that they've made in the past.
0:33:33 > 0:33:35Famously, Alastair Campbell said, "We don't do God,"
0:33:35 > 0:33:38talking about the Tony Blair premiership,
0:33:38 > 0:33:43so Christianity...does still stand for something in politics,
0:33:43 > 0:33:45though, do you think?
0:33:45 > 0:33:48I think it does. I wouldn't make any special claim
0:33:48 > 0:33:51that having a religious faith makes some people better than others.
0:33:51 > 0:33:55Absolutely not. But it's undeniably the case
0:33:55 > 0:33:58that some of the people with whom I worked,
0:33:58 > 0:34:00not just in Parliament, but in prisons,
0:34:00 > 0:34:03are impelled by their religious faith
0:34:03 > 0:34:05to try and find the best in others.
0:34:10 > 0:34:14Michael's aspirations as Justice Secretary were short-lived.
0:34:15 > 0:34:18The Conservatives had to deliver on a big election promise.
0:34:20 > 0:34:23I will go to Parliament and propose that the British people
0:34:23 > 0:34:25decide our future in Europe
0:34:25 > 0:34:30through an in/out referendum on Thursday the 23rd of June.
0:34:30 > 0:34:34For Michael, the prospect posed a dilemma.
0:34:34 > 0:34:35There goes Michael Gove.
0:34:35 > 0:34:37Was it a difficult decision, Mr Gove?
0:34:37 > 0:34:38An awkward entrance
0:34:38 > 0:34:42for one of the Prime Minister's closest friends, who'll oppose him.
0:34:42 > 0:34:44He's been a Eurosceptic all his political career,
0:34:44 > 0:34:48but he was also very loyal to David Cameron, who,
0:34:48 > 0:34:51as Prime Minister, had been a bit of a Eurosceptic,
0:34:51 > 0:34:55but had decided to try and work with the European Union
0:34:55 > 0:34:57and try and make it better and have a referendum on it.
0:34:57 > 0:34:59Before I made the final decision,
0:34:59 > 0:35:02I went back home to see my mum and dad,
0:35:02 > 0:35:04and my father's business, as I say,
0:35:04 > 0:35:09was affected very badly by the EU and the Common Fisheries Policy,
0:35:09 > 0:35:11and I knew my mum and dad were going to vote for us
0:35:11 > 0:35:12to leave the European Union.
0:35:12 > 0:35:14So, it wasn't easy.
0:35:15 > 0:35:22In the end, I thought that it was better to, um...
0:35:22 > 0:35:24to say to David that I couldn't support him
0:35:24 > 0:35:26and to go with my heart
0:35:26 > 0:35:28than to suppress my feelings on the matter.
0:35:28 > 0:35:34I think David Cameron expected Michael Gove to support him,
0:35:34 > 0:35:37because he thought that Michael Gove was a friend.
0:35:37 > 0:35:41For a long time, you found it difficult to be able to say that.
0:35:41 > 0:35:43You kind of hinted at it with him,
0:35:43 > 0:35:45but he still thought you were going to be a Remainer.
0:35:45 > 0:35:48Yes. He thought... He knew that I was a Eurosceptic.
0:35:48 > 0:35:51- Yeah.- But he thought that I would, um...uh...
0:35:55 > 0:35:57..either keep schtum or,
0:35:57 > 0:36:01as some members of the Government did,
0:36:01 > 0:36:03say, "Well, on balance,
0:36:03 > 0:36:05"I'm going to support the Prime Minister and stay in."
0:36:05 > 0:36:11But I felt that it's about putting forward ideas in which you believe,
0:36:11 > 0:36:13hoping that people will support those ideas,
0:36:13 > 0:36:15acknowledging that, if they don't support those ideas,
0:36:15 > 0:36:19that you are there to serve them, not to indulge yourself.
0:36:19 > 0:36:21CHEERING
0:36:23 > 0:36:28Michael decided to openly campaign for the Leave vote.
0:36:28 > 0:36:31I think Michael, in order to keep his relationship with David
0:36:31 > 0:36:33and assure him,
0:36:33 > 0:36:35told him that he wouldn't play much of a prominent role
0:36:35 > 0:36:37in the campaign, and ended up doing so,
0:36:37 > 0:36:40and therefore, however much both of them began the campaign
0:36:40 > 0:36:44with the good intention that it wouldn't break up their friendship,
0:36:44 > 0:36:46inevitably, it pulled people apart.
0:36:46 > 0:36:47You let him down.
0:36:47 > 0:36:51He really thought he was relying on you, but you did let him down.
0:36:51 > 0:36:56How did you square that with your conscience and your friendship?
0:36:56 > 0:37:00Because your friendship became super strained.
0:37:00 > 0:37:05It did. I think David undoubtedly felt let down,
0:37:05 > 0:37:07but if I'd done anything different,
0:37:07 > 0:37:10I'd have been letting other people down.
0:37:10 > 0:37:11I felt I would have let my family down,
0:37:11 > 0:37:16because I wasn't following through on...honouring their experience
0:37:16 > 0:37:18and following the convictions I'd grown up with.
0:37:22 > 0:37:24Michael hit the campaign trail.
0:37:24 > 0:37:27..is if we send them this powerful signal
0:37:27 > 0:37:29that it is going in the wrong direction
0:37:29 > 0:37:31by voting to leave on June 23rd.
0:37:31 > 0:37:34It soon became clear that membership of the EU
0:37:34 > 0:37:37ignited fierce passions on both sides of the debate.
0:37:37 > 0:37:41Bring back Britain's fishing industry,
0:37:41 > 0:37:43destroyed by Brussels.
0:37:43 > 0:37:48Our boats are dumping tonnes of fish this very day
0:37:48 > 0:37:50because of the EU quotas.
0:37:50 > 0:37:52- Do me a favour, just...- Go away!
0:37:52 > 0:37:53Why don't you go away?
0:37:53 > 0:37:55I'm a Cornish fisherman, and you're not.
0:37:55 > 0:37:59Cornish fishermen want our fishing grounds back!
0:37:59 > 0:38:04It all escalated and it all became very, very histrionic,
0:38:04 > 0:38:07and that is a great shame, because things, I think,
0:38:07 > 0:38:10were done and said that perhaps ought not to have been done and said.
0:38:10 > 0:38:14Good evening, and welcome, at the end of this momentous day,
0:38:14 > 0:38:17when each one of us has had the chance to say
0:38:17 > 0:38:19what kind of country we want to live in.
0:38:19 > 0:38:21Over the course of the campaign,
0:38:21 > 0:38:25the polls had predicted that it was going to be close.
0:38:25 > 0:38:27We'll have the answer to the question
0:38:27 > 0:38:29that's haunted British politics for so long -
0:38:29 > 0:38:33do we want to be in or out of the EU?
0:38:33 > 0:38:37The night of the referendum, June the 23rd 2016,
0:38:37 > 0:38:41is a date for generations of history students to discuss.
0:38:41 > 0:38:43- Hmm.- So what was it like in this house that night?
0:38:43 > 0:38:45Did you... "Well, we've done our best..."?
0:38:45 > 0:38:48Well, we had some friends round for dinner,
0:38:48 > 0:38:50most of whom had been people who'd voted leave -
0:38:50 > 0:38:52not all of whom.
0:38:52 > 0:38:54But I slipped off to bed early.
0:38:54 > 0:38:58Michael was just, "I've got to go to bed now cos I'm exhausted
0:38:58 > 0:39:00"and I've been campaigning solid for the last goodness knows how long,
0:39:00 > 0:39:03"and...I just need to go to sleep, cos whatever happens,
0:39:03 > 0:39:06"I'll have to get up in the morning and do the radio and the telly
0:39:06 > 0:39:09"and I just want to be vaguely sentient."
0:39:09 > 0:39:13A lot of people felt that...Remain was going to win.
0:39:13 > 0:39:15I certainly believed Remain was going to win
0:39:15 > 0:39:17and maybe Michael believed Remain was going to win and just...
0:39:17 > 0:39:21End of a long campaign, go to bed, wake up and regroup.
0:39:26 > 0:39:28I was woken up at a bit after four,
0:39:28 > 0:39:32when one of my friends who was working on the campaign
0:39:32 > 0:39:35rang me to say, "Michael, we've won."
0:39:35 > 0:39:38And I remember telling it to Sarah, and saying,
0:39:38 > 0:39:40"Well, I suppose I better get up, then."
0:39:40 > 0:39:44- LAUGHING:- Then Michael got up and said, "Crivens!"
0:39:44 > 0:39:47That's what he always says when he's very surprised.
0:39:52 > 0:39:56And then, you know, a few hours later, he and Boris appeared,
0:39:56 > 0:39:58looking rather shocked at what they'd done.
0:40:01 > 0:40:03CHEERING
0:40:03 > 0:40:06Vote Leave celebrated their success.
0:40:06 > 0:40:08APPLAUSE
0:40:08 > 0:40:12We can build a new, stronger and more positive relationship
0:40:12 > 0:40:14with our European neighbours
0:40:14 > 0:40:17based on free trade and friendly cooperation.
0:40:17 > 0:40:21As leader of the defeated Remain campaign, Michael's old friend,
0:40:21 > 0:40:25the Prime Minister, now felt he had only one choice.
0:40:27 > 0:40:30But the British people have made a very clear decision
0:40:30 > 0:40:33to take a different path and, as such,
0:40:33 > 0:40:36I think the country requires fresh leadership
0:40:36 > 0:40:38to take it in this direction.
0:40:42 > 0:40:44Did you get a message to him?
0:40:44 > 0:40:46We did talk that day, yes.
0:40:46 > 0:40:50You did? Did you ring him or he ring you?
0:40:50 > 0:40:52We talked... Probably better not to say.
0:40:52 > 0:40:53We talked that day.
0:40:53 > 0:40:59How was that conversation that day? Was it sad? Recriminations? Anger?
0:40:59 > 0:41:01Um, again, without going through things,
0:41:01 > 0:41:04I think that it's fair to say that he behaved
0:41:04 > 0:41:07as he...as he pretty much has,
0:41:07 > 0:41:10throughout all the time I've known him - with incredible decency.
0:41:10 > 0:41:12They've got a lot of history together.
0:41:12 > 0:41:17Um...personally, I can imagine a situation in which they would be
0:41:17 > 0:41:20more friendly in future than they are now,
0:41:20 > 0:41:22but their relationship will never be quite the same.
0:41:28 > 0:41:31There's every chance that, at some point in the next couple of years,
0:41:31 > 0:41:33when they find themselves in the same room,
0:41:33 > 0:41:35they'll have a perfectly jovial chat
0:41:35 > 0:41:38and they'll brush it all under the carpet.
0:41:38 > 0:41:40The bigger problem is that the wives
0:41:40 > 0:41:43are not terribly interested in doing that.
0:41:47 > 0:41:51Well, I haven't spoken to them since just before the referendum.
0:41:54 > 0:41:57So that's it. We haven't had any communication.
0:41:57 > 0:41:59Um, you know, I'm very...
0:41:59 > 0:42:01My door's always open but, you know...
0:42:01 > 0:42:03That's where we are at the moment.
0:42:07 > 0:42:11How much did it damage your friendship with the Camerons?
0:42:11 > 0:42:13Um, I think that it was...
0:42:14 > 0:42:16It's difficult to sort of quantify that,
0:42:16 > 0:42:21but it's undoubtedly the case that, um...it's put
0:42:21 > 0:42:24- a significant strain, absolutely, on it.- Mm.
0:42:24 > 0:42:27Have you spoken to them since he resigned?
0:42:27 > 0:42:30Um, not in the...
0:42:30 > 0:42:32We haven't had a proper conversation, no.
0:42:32 > 0:42:36No. OK. And I know that Sarah and Samantha were friends,
0:42:36 > 0:42:38and that's been damaged, too?
0:42:38 > 0:42:41Uh, yes. It's placed a significant strain on that, yeah.
0:42:43 > 0:42:47The Conservative Party needed a new leader.
0:42:47 > 0:42:49After a starring Brexit role,
0:42:49 > 0:42:53Boris Johnson was preparing to throw his hat into the ring
0:42:53 > 0:42:58and it seemed Michael Gove was going to back his campaign.
0:42:58 > 0:43:00Michael had always told all of his friends,
0:43:00 > 0:43:02"I'm not going to run for the leadership.
0:43:02 > 0:43:03"If I ever think of running for the leadership,
0:43:03 > 0:43:05"you will ring me and tell me I've lost my marbles?"
0:43:05 > 0:43:08He doesn't really want to be Prime Minister.
0:43:08 > 0:43:11It's not really, you know... It's not what his thing is.
0:43:11 > 0:43:15I mean, I think he just really wanted to be Education Secretary.
0:43:15 > 0:43:17And you were famously saying things like,
0:43:17 > 0:43:19"I do not have what it takes,"
0:43:19 > 0:43:22and, "I do not have the qualities to be Prime Minister,"
0:43:22 > 0:43:25and, "Give me a piece of parchment and I'll write it in blood" -
0:43:25 > 0:43:27all of those amazing things.
0:43:27 > 0:43:29Did you really believe that at the time,
0:43:29 > 0:43:31that you were not Prime Minister material?
0:43:31 > 0:43:35Yeah, no, and that's why I didn't run at the beginning -
0:43:35 > 0:43:38because I thought that he would be better equipped
0:43:38 > 0:43:44and that the ideal situation would be for him to take over.
0:43:44 > 0:43:46I hoped that I'd be able to stay in the government,
0:43:46 > 0:43:49but for me to try and help Boris to become Prime Minister.
0:43:49 > 0:43:52Are you going to announce that you're standing today, Mr Johnson?
0:43:52 > 0:43:54- Good morning, everybody. So sorry...- Is today the day?
0:43:58 > 0:44:00But there were rumblings that, behind the scenes,
0:44:00 > 0:44:03not everything was going according to plan.
0:44:07 > 0:44:10So, once Gove had agreed to support Johnson,
0:44:10 > 0:44:14he then wanted to get certain things agreed -
0:44:14 > 0:44:18basically, how they would run the government together.
0:44:18 > 0:44:21Now, that deal was never quite properly done.
0:44:24 > 0:44:29Michael Gove's wife got involved, fighting her husband's corner,
0:44:29 > 0:44:32sending this e-mail, which was leaked,
0:44:32 > 0:44:40telling Michael and his advisors to be their "stubborn best".
0:44:40 > 0:44:41For some reason,
0:44:41 > 0:44:47another person with the same surname ended up in the sending slot.
0:44:47 > 0:44:51So he obviously, immediately, sent it to the papers.
0:44:51 > 0:44:54Felt sorry for her that it leaked, but it wasn't stupid advice.
0:44:54 > 0:44:57He did need to tie down his relationship with Boris,
0:44:57 > 0:44:58which hadn't been tied down.
0:44:58 > 0:45:03Well, that e-mail was, um...a way of Sarah trying to make sure
0:45:03 > 0:45:06that I remembered some of the things that we were supposed to discuss
0:45:06 > 0:45:08about how Number Ten should work.
0:45:08 > 0:45:12So it was more about the...the direction
0:45:12 > 0:45:14and the operation of government than anything else.
0:45:14 > 0:45:16Did you want to be Chancellor?
0:45:16 > 0:45:19I wasn't sure myself what job I should do.
0:45:19 > 0:45:24The one thing I did think was that things needed to change overall.
0:45:24 > 0:45:26Of course, the rumours, again, at the time,
0:45:26 > 0:45:28were that you were game playing,
0:45:28 > 0:45:32lulling Mr Johnson into a sense of false security.
0:45:32 > 0:45:33You're nodding.
0:45:33 > 0:45:37Um...those were certainly things that lots of people said afterwards,
0:45:37 > 0:45:41but the reality is that I couldn't have been,
0:45:41 > 0:45:46because I spent lots of my time in that week -
0:45:46 > 0:45:47almost till the very last moment -
0:45:47 > 0:45:52to do everything I could to ensure that people saw Boris' virtues
0:45:52 > 0:45:57and that he could be, um...assured of their support.
0:45:57 > 0:45:59I mean, he's known Boris for a long time,
0:45:59 > 0:46:04but he didn't know Boris' team and...he...
0:46:04 > 0:46:08After they'd agreed that Boris was going to do it and all of that,
0:46:08 > 0:46:12there were a series of cock-ups which happened
0:46:12 > 0:46:14which just drove him nuts.
0:46:14 > 0:46:16They didn't expect to win the referendum.
0:46:16 > 0:46:18They didn't expect David Cameron to resign.
0:46:18 > 0:46:20They didn't expect to be in the position
0:46:20 > 0:46:22where they had to make complex decisions about Brexit.
0:46:22 > 0:46:24They hadn't got their relationship together.
0:46:24 > 0:46:27And he just thought, "Oh, my God, this is a disaster.
0:46:27 > 0:46:31"He's not ready. They're not ready. It's not going to work.
0:46:31 > 0:46:34"I've got to stop this from happening.
0:46:34 > 0:46:36"It's not going to... It's just not right.
0:46:36 > 0:46:38"None of it's right. None of it's right!"
0:46:38 > 0:46:42He decided to go...to go on a kamikaze mission
0:46:42 > 0:46:46and blow up both him and Boris Johnson.
0:46:46 > 0:46:48- Morning, sir.- Morning.
0:46:48 > 0:46:51On a Thursday morning at the end of June,
0:46:51 > 0:46:53the country woke up expecting Boris Johnson
0:46:53 > 0:46:56to announce he was standing for the leadership.
0:46:56 > 0:46:59I'll be giving a speech at 11 o'clock this morning
0:46:59 > 0:47:01at Policy Exchange, and I look forward to seeing you there.
0:47:01 > 0:47:05But Michael Gove called a press conference of his own.
0:47:06 > 0:47:08APPLAUSE
0:47:11 > 0:47:14I stand here and I'm standing for the leadership
0:47:14 > 0:47:17not as a result of calculation...
0:47:20 > 0:47:22Certainly not as a result of calculation.
0:47:22 > 0:47:23LAUGHTER
0:47:25 > 0:47:27I think he felt, "Well, I've backed...
0:47:27 > 0:47:30"You know, I've backed Leave
0:47:30 > 0:47:33"and I must, you know, I must step up to the plate."
0:47:33 > 0:47:38Michael does whatever he thinks to be the right thing,
0:47:38 > 0:47:43sometimes without worrying enough about whether it breaks the china.
0:47:43 > 0:47:44I just thought, "This is mad,
0:47:44 > 0:47:48"because not only is he not going to end up being leader,
0:47:48 > 0:47:50"but he's going to destroy Boris Johnson's chances
0:47:50 > 0:47:52"of being leader."
0:47:53 > 0:47:55After digesting the shock news,
0:47:55 > 0:47:58Boris Johnson made his leadership ambitions clear.
0:47:58 > 0:48:02Well, I must tell you, my friends,
0:48:02 > 0:48:08you who have waited faithfully for the punchline of this speech,
0:48:08 > 0:48:11that, having consulted colleagues
0:48:11 > 0:48:15and in view of the circumstances in Parliament,
0:48:15 > 0:48:19I have concluded that person cannot be me.
0:48:19 > 0:48:21That was one of those few moments
0:48:21 > 0:48:25where the whole of Westminster gasps at once.
0:48:25 > 0:48:27Everybody was just watching the television
0:48:27 > 0:48:30as if they weren't actually at the event itself.
0:48:30 > 0:48:34I cannot, you know, unfortunately,
0:48:34 > 0:48:36get on with doing what I wanted to do.
0:48:36 > 0:48:38So it'll be up to somebody else, now,
0:48:38 > 0:48:41and I wish them every possible success.
0:48:41 > 0:48:43All the assumptions of, you know,
0:48:43 > 0:48:46previous weeks had just been thrown out of the window,
0:48:46 > 0:48:50which were that Boris Johnson was going to be Prime Minister,
0:48:50 > 0:48:53and, suddenly, he wasn't, all because Michael Gove
0:48:53 > 0:48:56had...had stabbed him in the back, as it seemed.
0:48:56 > 0:48:59- Quick word?- Good evening. - What have you got to say...?
0:48:59 > 0:49:03Mr Gove? Did you betray Boris, Mr Gove?
0:49:03 > 0:49:05Mr Gove, why should people trust you?
0:49:05 > 0:49:08His big mistake was to not tell Boris Johnson immediately
0:49:08 > 0:49:10that he was planning to withdraw his support
0:49:10 > 0:49:13and that he was going to run himself for the leadership.
0:49:13 > 0:49:16Had he done so, Boris Johnson would have had several hours
0:49:16 > 0:49:19to think about his reaction and he may well have concluded
0:49:19 > 0:49:22that he had enough support to carry on and keep fighting.
0:49:22 > 0:49:25What's your message to Michael Gove, Mr Johnson?
0:49:25 > 0:49:27Good morning, everybody. Have a great day, everybody.
0:49:27 > 0:49:29Have a good one. Nice to see you.
0:49:30 > 0:49:33That morning that you did stand, it's interesting...
0:49:33 > 0:49:36- Did you call him? - I did.
0:49:38 > 0:49:41Because I read that you didn't. He didn't hear from you.
0:49:41 > 0:49:45No, I rang - that morning, I tried to speak to Boris,
0:49:45 > 0:49:47but the phone rang dead when I called him,
0:49:47 > 0:49:49so I then spoke to his lieutenant,
0:49:49 > 0:49:51in order to explain what we were going to do.
0:49:51 > 0:49:55So, no, I did definitely try to ring Boris at the time.
0:49:55 > 0:49:59Well, you put out the statement, saying, "Boris cannot provide
0:49:59 > 0:50:02"the leadership or build the team for the task ahead.
0:50:02 > 0:50:06"I have therefore decided to put my name forward for the leadership."
0:50:06 > 0:50:07Brutal!
0:50:07 > 0:50:10Yes, I think, as I look back,
0:50:10 > 0:50:15the way in which I declared my standing for the leadership,
0:50:15 > 0:50:18I shouldn't have done it in that way, yeah.
0:50:21 > 0:50:27Any sense of...feeling you'd let yourself down?
0:50:27 > 0:50:29I think...
0:50:29 > 0:50:32As I look back on that time,
0:50:32 > 0:50:35I think that there were mistakes that I made, but as I say,
0:50:35 > 0:50:36it's still relatively...
0:50:36 > 0:50:38I'm still relatively close to those events,
0:50:38 > 0:50:42so I'm still in the process of reflecting on what I got wrong
0:50:42 > 0:50:44and what I called right.
0:50:47 > 0:50:50With the Brexit partnership in tatters,
0:50:50 > 0:50:54Boris Johnson's supporters were bewildered - even bitter.
0:50:54 > 0:50:58Their initial reaction was that this was a premeditated plot,
0:50:58 > 0:51:01that Michael Gove had got alongside Boris Johnson,
0:51:01 > 0:51:03deliberately run him for the leadership,
0:51:03 > 0:51:05got the campaign up and running,
0:51:05 > 0:51:07and then knifed him in the back in order to help himself.
0:51:07 > 0:51:13Cartoonists and newspaper headline writers had a field day.
0:51:16 > 0:51:19I mean, both Michael and I are quite, funnily enough,
0:51:19 > 0:51:20quite naive like that.
0:51:20 > 0:51:24We're not very skilled, um...
0:51:26 > 0:51:29I think it's... We're not very good game players.
0:51:29 > 0:51:32Um...and some people are really good at that
0:51:32 > 0:51:36and, um...we're quite in-the-moment people.
0:51:36 > 0:51:40And we were all very much in the moment,
0:51:40 > 0:51:43and...this wasn't our finest moment.
0:51:43 > 0:51:45But it was in the moment.
0:51:45 > 0:51:47This was not a conspiracy.
0:51:47 > 0:51:49It was one of the most gigantic cases of cock-up
0:51:49 > 0:51:52in the history of British politics.
0:51:52 > 0:51:54It's... It must be hurtful,
0:51:54 > 0:51:58knowing that the press have labelled you a backstabber.
0:51:58 > 0:52:00"It was an extraordinary act of treachery,"
0:52:00 > 0:52:04"It would forever be known as 'doing a Gove'."
0:52:04 > 0:52:06I know that I made a mistake,
0:52:06 > 0:52:08so there's no point in me complaining.
0:52:08 > 0:52:11I've got to bear the consequences of my own actions.
0:52:11 > 0:52:15Did you speak to Boris on that day, eventually, after you'd...?
0:52:15 > 0:52:17No, I spoke to him subsequently.
0:52:17 > 0:52:18How was that?
0:52:18 > 0:52:22Um...to be fair to Boris, that was a private conversation,
0:52:22 > 0:52:23and again, to be fair to Boris,
0:52:23 > 0:52:27he's someone who has shown throughout his career -
0:52:27 > 0:52:29and I don't think people have always appreciated this -
0:52:29 > 0:52:32a generosity of spirit.
0:52:32 > 0:52:34Do you feel a Christian responsibility
0:52:34 > 0:52:36to repair the relationship now?
0:52:36 > 0:52:38I don't think it's necessarily simply a Christian thing.
0:52:38 > 0:52:41I think that there is a responsibility on anyone,
0:52:41 > 0:52:46after...making an error or making a mistake,
0:52:46 > 0:52:48A, to reflect on it,
0:52:48 > 0:52:51and B, to show whatever generosity of spirit they can towards others.
0:52:51 > 0:52:56So, my view has been, don't try to, um...make excuses.
0:52:58 > 0:53:02Take responsibility yourself for your actions.
0:53:02 > 0:53:05I also think that, um, my initial instinct,
0:53:05 > 0:53:07that I was not the best person to put themselves forward
0:53:07 > 0:53:09as a potential Prime Minister...
0:53:09 > 0:53:11Well, most of my colleagues agreed.
0:53:11 > 0:53:14Good afternoon. As returning officer
0:53:14 > 0:53:18in the Conservative Party leadership election 2016,
0:53:18 > 0:53:20the relevant...
0:53:20 > 0:53:25Michael Gove failed to make the final shortlist of candidates.
0:53:25 > 0:53:29He managed only 46 of the 329 votes.
0:53:34 > 0:53:36On the 13th of July,
0:53:36 > 0:53:41Theresa May became the new leader of the Conservative Party
0:53:41 > 0:53:42and Prime Minister.
0:53:45 > 0:53:48I have just been to Buckingham Palace,
0:53:48 > 0:53:50where Her Majesty the Queen has asked me
0:53:50 > 0:53:53to form a new government, and I accepted.
0:53:54 > 0:53:57Theresa May, when she became Prime Minister,
0:53:57 > 0:54:05appointed three of the four leading supporters of Brexit to her cabinet,
0:54:05 > 0:54:08and the one she didn't appoint was Michael Gove.
0:54:08 > 0:54:10When I launched my leadership campaign,
0:54:10 > 0:54:13I said that politics is not a game...
0:54:14 > 0:54:17When Theresa became Prime Minister,
0:54:17 > 0:54:20she said that she no longer had a place for me in the Cabinet,
0:54:20 > 0:54:22and, to be honest, if I'd been in her shoes,
0:54:22 > 0:54:23I would have sacked me, too.
0:54:23 > 0:54:26So I entirely accept that sacking me at the time
0:54:26 > 0:54:27was the right thing to do.
0:54:27 > 0:54:28Yeah.
0:54:28 > 0:54:32So, Mrs May as Prime Minister, Boris Johnson as Foreign Secretary,
0:54:32 > 0:54:33you're back on the back benches.
0:54:35 > 0:54:36It's uncomfortable.
0:54:36 > 0:54:38I had six years when I was a government minister.
0:54:38 > 0:54:41I had a chance to make a difference. I hope that I did.
0:54:41 > 0:54:45But, um...nothing is forever in politics
0:54:45 > 0:54:47and, having had the chance to serve,
0:54:47 > 0:54:49having had the chance to make a difference,
0:54:49 > 0:54:53I have to accept that the way in which I spent
0:54:53 > 0:54:55the final week or so of my ministerial life
0:54:55 > 0:54:58involved my making mistakes and,
0:54:58 > 0:55:00having made mistakes, you have to take the consequences.
0:55:04 > 0:55:09I think you only get one chance to go for the leadership
0:55:09 > 0:55:11of your political party these days.
0:55:11 > 0:55:17Um...and certainly, if, in doing that,
0:55:17 > 0:55:21you acquire a reputation for being untrustworthy
0:55:21 > 0:55:24and for betraying your colleagues,
0:55:24 > 0:55:26then I don't think you get a second chance.
0:55:28 > 0:55:31May's big agenda is to pursue social reform
0:55:31 > 0:55:34on behalf of the just-about-managing classes.
0:55:34 > 0:55:37Gove is a great social reformer, and you can see a world
0:55:37 > 0:55:40in which he gets a job and contributes something again.
0:55:41 > 0:55:46So...the next year is going to be an interesting time.
0:55:46 > 0:55:50If Gove stays on-message, I think he can come back.
0:55:50 > 0:55:52If he doesn't, he'll be dead to her forever.
0:55:52 > 0:55:55Your future political ambitions are what?
0:55:55 > 0:55:58Well, at the moment, I'm hoping to play a role
0:55:58 > 0:56:02in making a success of Britain leaving the European Union.
0:56:02 > 0:56:04I'm on the Select Committee that looks into that,
0:56:04 > 0:56:07and I also want to continue campaigning to help children
0:56:07 > 0:56:09who are at risk of abuse or neglect,
0:56:09 > 0:56:11to make sure that they are either taken into care or fostered
0:56:11 > 0:56:13or, as I was, adopted.
0:56:13 > 0:56:15There's no doubt at all that,
0:56:15 > 0:56:18during what has been a pretty tempestuous year for him,
0:56:18 > 0:56:20he will have taken quite a lot of recourse
0:56:20 > 0:56:24in his faith, in his family.
0:56:24 > 0:56:28I think that Michael needed a break from front-line politics.
0:56:28 > 0:56:31I think that people do.
0:56:31 > 0:56:36It's very hard work and it's also quite all-consuming.
0:56:36 > 0:56:40No, he's much less...much less exhausted
0:56:40 > 0:56:43and much less stressed than he has been.
0:56:43 > 0:56:45Um... You know, he's got his...
0:56:45 > 0:56:47He's a bit more fun, which is nice.
0:56:47 > 0:56:49I don't know what the future holds for him,
0:56:49 > 0:56:54but the one thing I'd be amazed by is if we found him fizzling out.
0:56:54 > 0:56:57This time last year, you couldn't have predicted any of this,
0:56:57 > 0:57:01and Christmas, of course, is a time for peace and goodwill,
0:57:01 > 0:57:03and maybe thinking about "what ifs".
0:57:03 > 0:57:06- Yes.- But what will you be thinking about this Christmas?
0:57:06 > 0:57:11My family - I'll be saying thank you for being so blessed
0:57:11 > 0:57:15as to have such a wonderful wife and fantastic children
0:57:15 > 0:57:20and to have a mum and a dad and a sister and others
0:57:20 > 0:57:21who are great.
0:57:21 > 0:57:26I'll also be reflecting on, um...you know,
0:57:26 > 0:57:28the genuine blessings that I've had in life.
0:57:28 > 0:57:31I had a chance to argue for things that I believed in
0:57:31 > 0:57:35and I will also have the chance, I hope, in the future,
0:57:35 > 0:57:38to be able to argue for other things in which I believe,
0:57:38 > 0:57:42to make a contribution and, above all, I hope,
0:57:42 > 0:57:45I can be a decent husband and a good dad.
0:57:46 > 0:57:49Happy Christmas, Michael Gove. Thank you very much.
0:57:49 > 0:57:51Not at all, Fern. Thank you.
0:57:51 > 0:57:54Next week, I'm meeting Rebecca Ferguson -
0:57:54 > 0:57:58former teenage mum from Liverpool, who won our hearts on The X Factor.
0:57:58 > 0:58:00People read the papers about me and think,
0:58:00 > 0:58:03"God, that girl's been through a lot."
0:58:03 > 0:58:06# You're the prettiest thing my eyes have ever seen... #
0:58:06 > 0:58:10Rebecca talks about fame, family and faith.
0:58:10 > 0:58:12# Close down... #
0:58:12 > 0:58:14I feel like people might criticise me,
0:58:14 > 0:58:16cos I'm not your standard Christian.
0:58:16 > 0:58:19- There is no perfect Christian. That's the thing.- There isn't, no.