0:00:03 > 0:00:07The Palace of Westminster, seat of political power in the UK
0:00:07 > 0:00:10and the final destination for this Advent series.
0:00:13 > 0:00:16I'm standing exactly on the spot where MPs come out to be
0:00:16 > 0:00:19grilled by journalists after various debates.
0:00:19 > 0:00:23And I'm here to meet a woman who plays a crucial part here.
0:00:23 > 0:00:26But, strangely, she's not a politician.
0:00:27 > 0:00:29The Rev Rose Hudson-Wilkin is chaplain
0:00:29 > 0:00:32to the Speaker of the House of Commons,
0:00:32 > 0:00:35the first black woman to take on that historic role,
0:00:35 > 0:00:38and someone who lives and breathes
0:00:38 > 0:00:41the themes that underpin this season of Advent.
0:00:42 > 0:00:45I always feel a little bit like Wallace and Gromit,
0:00:45 > 0:00:48where he's just standing, falling into all the clothes.
0:00:48 > 0:00:51In the party politics of Westminster,
0:00:51 > 0:00:54the Rev Rose is a calming presence
0:00:54 > 0:00:57and spiritual guardian to many of the MPs who work here.
0:00:58 > 0:01:01It's a good job that Rose is a good listener
0:01:01 > 0:01:04because a lot of the people who come to see her are Parliamentarians.
0:01:04 > 0:01:09One thing that Parliamentarians tend to do is talk.
0:01:09 > 0:01:10Quite a lot.
0:01:12 > 0:01:15She has played a crucial role in moments of national tragedy.
0:01:16 > 0:01:20We are not defined by that act of evil.
0:01:20 > 0:01:24Instead, we are defined by acts of forgiveness.
0:01:24 > 0:01:27Born into humble beginnings in Jamaica, Rose spent
0:01:27 > 0:01:30most of her childhood separated from her mother.
0:01:30 > 0:01:35The church became her rock and she said that she was around 14
0:01:35 > 0:01:38when she felt she was called to the priesthood in a dream.
0:01:38 > 0:01:43I was so excited, I started saying, "Thank the Lord! Praise the Lord!"
0:01:43 > 0:01:47Since then, she's faced racism, sexism,
0:01:47 > 0:01:51and fought them to become the person she is today -
0:01:51 > 0:01:57an outspoken, uncompromising voice on issues like greater diversity
0:01:57 > 0:01:59and the role of women in the church.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02She doesn't take no for an answer, for sure.
0:02:03 > 0:02:08Rose has also proudly embraced her role as a chaplain to the Queen.
0:02:09 > 0:02:13I want to know how Rose found the courage and the fortitude
0:02:13 > 0:02:16to face the many trials that her life has thrown at her.
0:02:16 > 0:02:21And also how she went from sunny Montego Bay to these dark,
0:02:21 > 0:02:25forbidding corridors of power in Westminster.
0:02:40 > 0:02:44# It's all on the right side in Montego Bay... #
0:02:44 > 0:02:48On the beautiful island of Jamaica lies Montego Bay,
0:02:48 > 0:02:54a dream destination, and, in 1961, the birthplace of the young Rose.
0:02:54 > 0:02:55# Come sing me la!
0:02:55 > 0:02:58# Come sing me Montego Bay
0:02:58 > 0:03:01# Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh... #
0:03:03 > 0:03:07I have longed to go to Montego Bay ever since I heard the song.
0:03:07 > 0:03:10- So, tell me, what was it like being born there?- You should.
0:03:10 > 0:03:12Is it gorgeous?
0:03:12 > 0:03:16Montego Bay is beautiful, and I always introduce myself by
0:03:16 > 0:03:21saying that I had the good fortune of being born and brought up there.
0:03:21 > 0:03:25Apart from it being a beautiful island and a beautiful city,
0:03:25 > 0:03:28for me, it was growing up in a place where
0:03:28 > 0:03:31I saw images of myself in all walks of life.
0:03:31 > 0:03:33So, while walking past the book shop,
0:03:33 > 0:03:36there were images there that looked like me.
0:03:36 > 0:03:39In government, in the police,
0:03:39 > 0:03:44in just about every institution, I could see reflections of myself.
0:03:44 > 0:03:47That's really important when you're a child growing up
0:03:47 > 0:03:50- because it affirms who you are, in a sense.- Yeah.
0:03:54 > 0:03:57Then, at the age of two, came a moment that signalled a huge
0:03:57 > 0:03:59change in Rose's life.
0:03:59 > 0:04:03Her mother left her to find work in England.
0:04:06 > 0:04:11My mother left to join her brother and her sister in the UK
0:04:11 > 0:04:13when I was two years old.
0:04:14 > 0:04:18I think the plan was... No-one ever spoke about it.
0:04:18 > 0:04:22I think the plan was that perhaps my father would have joined her
0:04:22 > 0:04:25and then maybe later we would have joined her.
0:04:25 > 0:04:29Something happened, and she found someone else.
0:04:29 > 0:04:32And started a new family.
0:04:32 > 0:04:36And, so, my sister and I, we remained behind in Jamaica.
0:04:39 > 0:04:43Rose's birth mother left her when she was very young.
0:04:43 > 0:04:46It must have done her some harm psychologically but the way
0:04:46 > 0:04:48in which Rose operates,
0:04:48 > 0:04:52and the way in which she's so self-contained...
0:04:54 > 0:04:56But then she has her faith.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01Rose and her sister were cared for by their aunt Pet
0:05:01 > 0:05:05but they had other important support from another source, too.
0:05:07 > 0:05:10When you don't have parents around you, you don't
0:05:10 > 0:05:13- know what else that you're missing. - Absolutely.
0:05:13 > 0:05:15You really don't know
0:05:15 > 0:05:19but I was lucky that I had a church family as well.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25We regularly went to church as children and, so,
0:05:25 > 0:05:29because of that, it meant that there were people there
0:05:29 > 0:05:32who parented in a different way.
0:05:32 > 0:05:34CONGREGATION SINGS
0:05:36 > 0:05:39She didn't grow up with both of her parents
0:05:39 > 0:05:41so I think she found the church very...
0:05:43 > 0:05:45..a very strong part of something that she could be a family with,
0:05:45 > 0:05:47what she was connected to.
0:05:48 > 0:05:53Church Sunday school was part of life.
0:05:53 > 0:05:55Yes, it was part of life.
0:05:55 > 0:06:00She was very active and involved in everything that was
0:06:00 > 0:06:04going on in her church and people loved her. And...
0:06:04 > 0:06:06Yes, she was always there,
0:06:06 > 0:06:12and it was a very big part of her growing up in Jamaica. Yeah.
0:06:13 > 0:06:16Two members of the church who Rose grew close to
0:06:16 > 0:06:18became like adopted parents to her -
0:06:18 > 0:06:22Horace Whittingham and Faye Jolly -
0:06:22 > 0:06:24even though she didn't live with them.
0:06:24 > 0:06:29So, what did they do for you in a parental way, Mr Whittingham
0:06:29 > 0:06:32- and Miss Jolly? - I think it was affirmation.
0:06:33 > 0:06:38Affirmation and "well done", and the hand across the shoulder, and the...
0:06:39 > 0:06:44..making you feel at ease because at home things were very...
0:06:44 > 0:06:46..very strict.
0:06:46 > 0:06:49You know, you had chores to do, you did your chores,
0:06:49 > 0:06:52then you did this, then it was bedtime, the lights were out...
0:06:52 > 0:06:56You know, it was very regimental. But, for me, Miss Jolly...
0:06:58 > 0:07:01..encapsulated what I looked for in a mother.
0:07:01 > 0:07:05And so did Horace Whittingham, in terms of fatherhood.
0:07:08 > 0:07:12Rose and her sister Shirley grew up without really knowing their mother.
0:07:14 > 0:07:18We were told - if a letter came or a parcel came,
0:07:18 > 0:07:21we were told, "Your mother has sent this," etc.
0:07:21 > 0:07:25It was usually around perhaps Christmas time that something,
0:07:25 > 0:07:27a little parcel, would come.
0:07:27 > 0:07:29So you, as a child,
0:07:29 > 0:07:34you conjure up these images of, you know, what might she look like?
0:07:34 > 0:07:38Because there really weren't many photographs, pictures around,
0:07:38 > 0:07:42that showed what she looked like. So I saw her for the first time
0:07:42 > 0:07:48when she returned to live in Jamaica when I was nine years old.
0:07:48 > 0:07:50# Country roads... #
0:07:50 > 0:07:55But when Rose's mother came back to Jamaica in 1970,
0:07:55 > 0:07:59she arrived with a husband and four children from her new relationship.
0:07:59 > 0:08:04# West Jamaica, my ol' momma... #
0:08:04 > 0:08:10When Rose's mother returned from England, I think
0:08:10 > 0:08:15it's fair to say she was a virtual stranger to Rose, and Rose to her.
0:08:16 > 0:08:21And, so... Like any child, it would take a lot of...
0:08:23 > 0:08:25..care and attention and trust.
0:08:25 > 0:08:30And some children would probably have an air of resentment.
0:08:30 > 0:08:33But, as far as I know, and speaking to Rose,
0:08:33 > 0:08:37there hadn't seemed to be any sort...that sort of resentment.
0:08:37 > 0:08:40If there was, she hid it very well from me.
0:08:42 > 0:08:44When did your mother send for you?
0:08:46 > 0:08:50Well, when my mother came back to Jamaica in 1970,
0:08:50 > 0:08:54they bought a property in Kingston, Jamaica, the capital.
0:08:54 > 0:08:57- This is with her new husband.- Her new husband, her new family, yes.
0:08:57 > 0:09:02They bought a property in Kingston, and then I think within
0:09:02 > 0:09:08weeks of returning, she came to Montego Bay to get us.
0:09:09 > 0:09:12We were excited, my sister and I.
0:09:12 > 0:09:17We were very excited at the possibility of meeting her.
0:09:17 > 0:09:20And going to live with her.
0:09:20 > 0:09:25And I can still see her now, sitting in the rocking chair, and I'm
0:09:25 > 0:09:30standing beside her thinking, "Oh, gosh, that's my mother.
0:09:30 > 0:09:32"She's quite pretty. Gosh."
0:09:32 > 0:09:36You know, being in a little awe of this. And she's quite tiny.
0:09:36 > 0:09:39What was she like, as a mother to you?
0:09:42 > 0:09:44I think...
0:09:45 > 0:09:47I think she struggled.
0:09:47 > 0:09:52I think she struggled to connect with us.
0:09:52 > 0:09:57And we, too, probably struggled to connect with her because,
0:09:57 > 0:09:59in effect, we were strangers.
0:09:59 > 0:10:05The baby that she left back in Montego Bay was no longer a baby.
0:10:05 > 0:10:07Or babies.
0:10:07 > 0:10:12My sister and I, we were intelligent, and we were not rude
0:10:12 > 0:10:17or disrespectful because we were not brought up to be like that.
0:10:17 > 0:10:20But I think we did question things, you know.
0:10:20 > 0:10:23And I don't think she could handle that.
0:10:23 > 0:10:27Did you actually ever ask her, "Why did you leave us?"?
0:10:27 > 0:10:28No.
0:10:28 > 0:10:32It is a question that I would still like to ask her.
0:10:32 > 0:10:35And I hope I do get the opportunity to ask her.
0:10:36 > 0:10:39But the new family life didn't last long.
0:10:39 > 0:10:42After only two years, there was another parting for Rose
0:10:42 > 0:10:44and her mother.
0:10:45 > 0:10:47She decided to send you back?
0:10:47 > 0:10:51Yes, I was sent back to Montego Bay.
0:10:51 > 0:10:56And it really is important for me to understand that
0:10:56 > 0:11:01because it sort of sits there somewhere. It's parked.
0:11:01 > 0:11:07- It's not getting in the way of life. - But it's a question mark.- It is.
0:11:08 > 0:11:11I don't understand it.
0:11:11 > 0:11:12But, yes, I was sent back.
0:11:12 > 0:11:16She kept my sister, Shirley, my big sister.
0:11:16 > 0:11:18And I was sent back to Montego Bay.
0:11:21 > 0:11:24My mum ended up moving back to Montego Bay.
0:11:24 > 0:11:27She describes the hardest bit about that to me
0:11:27 > 0:11:29as being away from her sister...
0:11:30 > 0:11:33..who she'd been with forever.
0:11:38 > 0:11:41I think that that probably was very hard and I can't imagine...
0:11:41 > 0:11:46I can't imagine that myself, both as a daughter and a as a mother.
0:11:48 > 0:11:50But I guess it's difficult to know...
0:11:50 > 0:11:53It's difficult to know the reasons, and why.
0:11:56 > 0:11:59Maybe I was difficult, I don't know.
0:11:59 > 0:12:02Rose's mum remains a part of her life to this day,
0:12:02 > 0:12:05even though there are unanswered questions.
0:12:07 > 0:12:09Where is she now?
0:12:09 > 0:12:11She lives part of the time in Jamaica
0:12:11 > 0:12:13and part of the time in New York.
0:12:13 > 0:12:14- Do you still see her?- Oh, yes.
0:12:14 > 0:12:17Oh, yes, I see her...
0:12:17 > 0:12:22I was with her earlier this year for her 80th birthday, yes.
0:12:22 > 0:12:26I would like to ask her, but I would like to ask her in a way
0:12:26 > 0:12:31that doesn't leave her feeling as if she was a failure.
0:12:31 > 0:12:34I think that's important.
0:12:34 > 0:12:39There were many young people from the Caribbean, my age group,
0:12:39 > 0:12:47who were left behind, and we've had to work out what...
0:12:47 > 0:12:50you know, who we are, and what does this mean
0:12:50 > 0:12:53when we come face-to-face with a new family?
0:12:53 > 0:12:57I watch her now with her great-grandchildren
0:12:57 > 0:13:01and she is just so relaxed and so laid-back
0:13:01 > 0:13:05and I almost wish that she had been like that,
0:13:05 > 0:13:08but then she wasn't there for those years when we were growing up,
0:13:08 > 0:13:11so we were really strangers to her,
0:13:11 > 0:13:15getting to know each other, trying to adjust.
0:13:15 > 0:13:20And in the end, probably never did adjust to...
0:13:22 > 0:13:27..what it really means to be bonded as mother/daughter.
0:13:30 > 0:13:33Back in 1970s Jamaica, it was the church, once again,
0:13:33 > 0:13:36that was to play an important role in Rose's life
0:13:36 > 0:13:39and her religious conviction began to grow.
0:13:42 > 0:13:46When did you first know that you had a vocation?
0:13:47 > 0:13:54Growing up in church, we were lucky not to have a priest every week,
0:13:54 > 0:13:59because it meant that, on those Sundays when there were no priest,
0:13:59 > 0:14:03the young people got to be involved
0:14:03 > 0:14:08and the adults were very perceptive that they didn't hog the show,
0:14:08 > 0:14:13but they brought the young people in to lead the prayers,
0:14:13 > 0:14:16to read the lessons, and those were great.
0:14:16 > 0:14:20She had this calling from a very young age
0:14:20 > 0:14:25and she knew that that's really what she wanted to do.
0:14:25 > 0:14:28# Jesus, would you protect me
0:14:28 > 0:14:30# As I travel...? #
0:14:30 > 0:14:33Rose played an active role in her church,
0:14:33 > 0:14:36but then, as a teenager, came a moment
0:14:36 > 0:14:39when Rose knew for certain the path she should follow.
0:14:41 > 0:14:46When you were about 14, you had this incredible dream.
0:14:46 > 0:14:52Yes, I did, and in this dream... We have verandas in Jamaica,
0:14:52 > 0:14:55and in this dream, the light wasn't on
0:14:55 > 0:14:58and there was someone at the foot of the steps, down on the ground,
0:14:58 > 0:15:01wanting me to bring them into the house.
0:15:01 > 0:15:04I didn't know who this person was and I kept saying,
0:15:04 > 0:15:06"But I don't know you!" "Oh, just invite me in."
0:15:06 > 0:15:08"No, I can't do that!"
0:15:09 > 0:15:14Looking back now, I can say it was almost as if there was something...
0:15:14 > 0:15:20..a presence that wasn't supposed to be there that wanted to get in.
0:15:20 > 0:15:22This revelation in the dream,
0:15:22 > 0:15:24I was so excited that I started saying,
0:15:24 > 0:15:29"Thank the Lord, praise the Lord," and I was saying it outwardly,
0:15:29 > 0:15:33so it woke me up and it woke the others up in the house as well.
0:15:34 > 0:15:36It woke us up.
0:15:36 > 0:15:39And it disturbed me, it disturbed me.
0:15:39 > 0:15:44And in that moment, or that state of being disturbed,
0:15:44 > 0:15:46I reached for the Bible.
0:15:46 > 0:15:53And so this becomes really a seminal moment that never left me.
0:15:53 > 0:15:55And so, from then on,
0:15:55 > 0:16:01all I could think of is, "I am being called to ministry."
0:16:03 > 0:16:07Rose left school and, at first, worked as a teacher in Jamaica,
0:16:07 > 0:16:10but then, in the late '70s, she decided to go to England.
0:16:18 > 0:16:21Here in London, she trained as an evangelist with the Church Army,
0:16:21 > 0:16:23part of the Church of England.
0:16:25 > 0:16:27While you were at college, did you enjoy it?
0:16:27 > 0:16:30It was amazing. I loved college.
0:16:31 > 0:16:36But it was strange because I was coming away from family and friends
0:16:36 > 0:16:38to a completely strange place.
0:16:38 > 0:16:41Always heard about the United Kingdom,
0:16:41 > 0:16:42"mother country" as it were,
0:16:42 > 0:16:45but there was nothing motherly about the mother country.
0:16:45 > 0:16:49It was cold, it was freezing cold!
0:16:49 > 0:16:53And, actually, I also felt that the people were a bit cold too.
0:16:53 > 0:16:54Yes.
0:16:54 > 0:16:56We are very tactile in the Caribbean,
0:16:56 > 0:16:59we are always talking and touching and...you know.
0:16:59 > 0:17:02And people here were... "What is she doing?!"
0:17:02 > 0:17:06On the tube, on the bus, don't make eye contact.
0:17:06 > 0:17:09Exactly! I couldn't understand it!
0:17:09 > 0:17:11And she wasn't afraid to tell it to people, you know.
0:17:11 > 0:17:13She said, "When I just came here,
0:17:13 > 0:17:17"you are as cold your weather is and as gloomy as your weather is."
0:17:17 > 0:17:21That's the person she is, she wasn't afraid to say it, you know.
0:17:21 > 0:17:23But did you find that we were quite nice in the end?
0:17:23 > 0:17:25We just take a bit of warming up.
0:17:25 > 0:17:30Yes, take a bit of getting used to. People are very reserved.
0:17:30 > 0:17:36But in 1979, despite her somewhat chilly early English reception,
0:17:36 > 0:17:40Rose soon found her feet and her future husband,
0:17:40 > 0:17:42fellow student Ken Wilkin.
0:17:42 > 0:17:46So, describe the young Ken you saw coming down the corridor.
0:17:46 > 0:17:49Well, how can I describe him?
0:17:50 > 0:17:55He... I loved his walk and I loved the Geordie accent.
0:17:55 > 0:17:58- Oh, he's a Geordie? - He's a Geordie. Yes.
0:17:58 > 0:18:00Oh, she was very...
0:18:00 > 0:18:06She was very polite, she was very...prim and proper.
0:18:06 > 0:18:09She didn't hang out at the local pub
0:18:09 > 0:18:13like some of the others, including myself, did.
0:18:13 > 0:18:19They soon fell in love, madly in love, really.
0:18:19 > 0:18:23But then you knew who was in the driving seat there.
0:18:23 > 0:18:26Ken was so, you know, overtaken with this woman
0:18:26 > 0:18:29that he stopped going to the pub with us, you know!
0:18:29 > 0:18:34He invited me to his parents' home one holiday while I was at college
0:18:34 > 0:18:36and apparently...
0:18:36 > 0:18:39- LAUGHING:- He's going to kill me for this!
0:18:39 > 0:18:43Apparently he told them that there was this Jamaican girl at college
0:18:43 > 0:18:46who had nowhere to go to...
0:18:46 > 0:18:48ROSE LAUGHS
0:18:48 > 0:18:51..who had nowhere to go to during the holidays,
0:18:51 > 0:18:55so could she come and stay with them?
0:18:55 > 0:18:57And they were generous, "Of course, of course,
0:18:57 > 0:18:58"we've got a spare bedroom there.
0:18:58 > 0:19:00"Of course she can come and stay with us."
0:19:00 > 0:19:03And then his sister...
0:19:03 > 0:19:07His sister saw us in the park, holding hands!
0:19:09 > 0:19:12So she... She went home and said to them,
0:19:12 > 0:19:17"I think there's much more to this than just a Jamaican girl who is..."
0:19:17 > 0:19:20Hmm! But I can understand why he did that.
0:19:20 > 0:19:22Yes, yes.
0:19:24 > 0:19:27Although Ken and Rose were an item,
0:19:27 > 0:19:32when she finished training in 1982, Rose returned home to Jamaica.
0:19:32 > 0:19:35- You returned, leaving him here. - I returned.
0:19:35 > 0:19:39Yes, returned. And he followed me out.
0:19:39 > 0:19:41We were planning for me going over to Jamaica
0:19:41 > 0:19:43and us settling down in Jamaica to live together.
0:19:44 > 0:19:47I was quite excited about it.
0:19:47 > 0:19:52I was young and I didn't have a job when I went over.
0:19:52 > 0:19:56I had two cases, a one-way ticket and a promise of a marriage
0:19:56 > 0:19:59and that was enough to get me over there.
0:19:59 > 0:20:03I saw him coming down the steps of the aircraft and I panicked.
0:20:03 > 0:20:05I did.
0:20:05 > 0:20:06I thought, "Oh, my God!"
0:20:06 > 0:20:08He looked so different.
0:20:08 > 0:20:13He had changed his hair and he had grown moustache
0:20:13 > 0:20:16and I thought, "Oh, my God! What am I doing?!"
0:20:16 > 0:20:19And I ran!
0:20:19 > 0:20:20I literally ran.
0:20:20 > 0:20:24I ran back outside at that moment. "I can't, I can't!"
0:20:24 > 0:20:25But he had packed up everything, you know,
0:20:25 > 0:20:27- so I couldn't tell him. - Oh, my goodness!
0:20:27 > 0:20:32I could not tell him that I was having any doubts,
0:20:32 > 0:20:34that I was petrified at the thought.
0:20:34 > 0:20:36Oh, dear!
0:20:36 > 0:20:38But it all worked out well.
0:20:41 > 0:20:43So, where did you marry, here or there?
0:20:43 > 0:20:46We got married in Jamaica, we got married in Jamaica
0:20:46 > 0:20:48and that was beautiful.
0:20:48 > 0:20:51And who is that handsome young man?
0:20:51 > 0:20:54Yes, someone who had only been over eight days in the country.
0:20:54 > 0:20:57Is that all? I thought it was two weeks.
0:21:02 > 0:21:04- Been a while now.- I know.
0:21:04 > 0:21:06- It was a beautiful day.- Yes.
0:21:06 > 0:21:10We've now been married for... over 34 years,
0:21:10 > 0:21:12approximately 34 years.
0:21:12 > 0:21:13Well, congratulations.
0:21:13 > 0:21:16And I think we have at least another 30 to go!
0:21:16 > 0:21:19Of course you do! And you have three children as well.
0:21:19 > 0:21:21We have three wonderful children, yes.
0:21:21 > 0:21:23Back in the early '80s, Ken decided
0:21:23 > 0:21:27he wanted to try to become a priest in the Church of England.
0:21:27 > 0:21:29The couple moved back to the UK,
0:21:29 > 0:21:33where Ken did his training and they started a family.
0:21:33 > 0:21:36Rose's calling remained a strong as ever
0:21:36 > 0:21:38and she too wanted to be a priest.
0:21:38 > 0:21:41I went to see those who you need to speak to.
0:21:41 > 0:21:45Their response to me was, you know, "You are married,
0:21:45 > 0:21:48"you have a husband, you have a child,
0:21:48 > 0:21:51"ought you not to be looking after your husband and child?"
0:21:51 > 0:21:53She was incensed!
0:21:53 > 0:21:58Because those are the very things that constantly annoyed her,
0:21:58 > 0:22:03rightly so, because by saying that, people are saying
0:22:03 > 0:22:06that, as a woman, you're not equal.
0:22:06 > 0:22:11It wasn't until 1991 that Rose eventually became a deacon,
0:22:11 > 0:22:13assisting at a church in Wolverhampton,
0:22:13 > 0:22:15despite some initial resistance.
0:22:17 > 0:22:23The vicar wanted to accept me as the curate, the service curate there.
0:22:23 > 0:22:31And the PCC, which is the church committee, were unhappy with that.
0:22:31 > 0:22:37Some people resigned from the committee and...
0:22:37 > 0:22:40But I still went there, I still went there
0:22:40 > 0:22:46because I felt overwhelmingly that I was called to be there.
0:22:46 > 0:22:48Rose joined the campaign
0:22:48 > 0:22:52for the full ordination of women into the Church of England
0:22:52 > 0:22:57and she was there for the historic vote approving that in 1992.
0:22:58 > 0:23:01I'll never forget, dressed in her black cassock,
0:23:01 > 0:23:04made her poster
0:23:04 > 0:23:08and she took the train from Wolverhampton to London
0:23:08 > 0:23:14to stand silently, dignified and reverently,
0:23:14 > 0:23:19with her poster reminding us that we were all created in God's image.
0:23:19 > 0:23:22- You were standing with your placard. - I got this placard made up.
0:23:22 > 0:23:27On the one side it said, "Women called to represent Christ."
0:23:27 > 0:23:30On the other side it said, "Women,
0:23:30 > 0:23:35"beautifully and wonderfully made in the image of God."
0:23:35 > 0:23:39And outside there was just this real, "Yes!"
0:23:39 > 0:23:42This real joy
0:23:42 > 0:23:48that the Church finally listened to the Holy Spirit
0:23:48 > 0:23:53and was now going to ordain women as priests.
0:23:53 > 0:23:56- ANNOUNCER:- A two-thirds majority in each...
0:23:56 > 0:23:58CHEERING DROWNS SPEECH
0:24:00 > 0:24:02- NEWS REPORTER:- After 17 years of discussion,
0:24:02 > 0:24:05the result was greeted with an outburst of joy.
0:24:05 > 0:24:09That's a moment, for me, of changing history,
0:24:09 > 0:24:11it was absolutely wonderful.
0:24:11 > 0:24:16Let us get them a clap and greeting of encouragement
0:24:16 > 0:24:18at the start of this journey.
0:24:18 > 0:24:25Two years later, Rose was ordained as a priest in Lichfield Cathedral.
0:24:25 > 0:24:27- NEWS REPORTER:- For Rose Hudson-Wilkin, ordination was
0:24:27 > 0:24:30the realisation of a childhood ambition
0:24:30 > 0:24:32to take a full part in the Church.
0:24:32 > 0:24:34- ROSE ON ARCHIVE:- A most amazing experience.
0:24:34 > 0:24:37During it, people were actually sort of whispering to each other,
0:24:37 > 0:24:40"It has really happened! Has it happened? Yes, it's happened!"
0:24:40 > 0:24:42There was a lot of excitement, a lot of pleasure,
0:24:42 > 0:24:46a deep sense of, yes, we have finally given birth at last.
0:24:46 > 0:24:49Although Rose was one of the first women
0:24:49 > 0:24:51to be ordained in the Church of England,
0:24:51 > 0:24:54at her local church in Wolverhampton,
0:24:54 > 0:24:56she didn't get drawn into the national debate.
0:24:56 > 0:25:00I was there for four years.
0:25:00 > 0:25:01For the whole time I was there,
0:25:01 > 0:25:08I never once engaged with them about why a woman should be in leadership.
0:25:08 > 0:25:10- Really? - Never once engaged with them.
0:25:10 > 0:25:14- Why?- Well, you know, from my perspective,
0:25:14 > 0:25:19if you feel very strongly about something, and they did,
0:25:19 > 0:25:22and I feel very strongly about something,
0:25:22 > 0:25:27which I certainly did then and still do now,
0:25:27 > 0:25:29then it seems to me
0:25:29 > 0:25:34that there is no reason for us to go clashing head-to-head.
0:25:34 > 0:25:36She would want to actually sit down and talk to them,
0:25:36 > 0:25:38she would want to help them
0:25:38 > 0:25:42look at their views and attitudes that they had
0:25:42 > 0:25:44and try and address them
0:25:44 > 0:25:48in a way that would help them be a better person afterwards.
0:25:48 > 0:25:50I believe that I am called
0:25:50 > 0:25:56and so what I need to do is just to get there and get on with the job.
0:25:56 > 0:26:01And I think for me, personally, the sadness of the Church today
0:26:01 > 0:26:05is the fact that we have found ourselves in these camps
0:26:05 > 0:26:08and then we are constantly clashing and fighting.
0:26:08 > 0:26:12"You're not in my camp, so I don't want to have you," you know.
0:26:13 > 0:26:17It's... I think it is dishonouring to God, frankly.
0:26:20 > 0:26:24Rose's determination and dedication paid dividends,
0:26:24 > 0:26:27both in terms of building the congregation
0:26:27 > 0:26:29and in changing attitudes.
0:26:31 > 0:26:35That congregation grew and flourished.
0:26:35 > 0:26:37The Lord bless you and keep you.
0:26:37 > 0:26:40She doesn't take no for an answer, for sure.
0:26:40 > 0:26:45You know, and she is so positive, she thinks she can do everything.
0:26:45 > 0:26:49If you want to do it, you can do it, you can achieve it.
0:26:49 > 0:26:54And I recall one of those members coming up to me and saying,
0:26:54 > 0:26:57"I want you to know that I was one of those
0:26:57 > 0:27:01"who had resigned from the church committee when you first came
0:27:01 > 0:27:04"because we believed then that women should not be,
0:27:04 > 0:27:09"but I want you to know," she said, "that I have changed my mind.
0:27:09 > 0:27:12- This is a woman saying this to you? - Yes, yes.
0:27:12 > 0:27:15"I want you to know that I have changed my mind
0:27:15 > 0:27:18"and from your ministry in our midst,
0:27:18 > 0:27:23"we now believe that God has called women to this role."
0:27:23 > 0:27:24Wow
0:27:24 > 0:27:26# The Lord is my shepherd... #
0:27:26 > 0:27:28The Vicar Of Dibley, of course,
0:27:28 > 0:27:31- that helped the cause tremendously, didn't it?- Yes.
0:27:31 > 0:27:33The joyfulness, yes.
0:27:33 > 0:27:35And did you recognise that?
0:27:35 > 0:27:36Oh, yes!
0:27:36 > 0:27:38Oh, yes, oh, yes!
0:27:38 > 0:27:42Her joy, her love for what she was doing
0:27:42 > 0:27:46and the various reactions were so real.
0:27:46 > 0:27:49Hello, I'm Geraldine, I believe you're expecting me.
0:27:49 > 0:27:51No, I'm expecting our new vicar.
0:27:51 > 0:27:52Unless, of course, you are the new vicar
0:27:52 > 0:27:56and they've landed us with a woman as some sort of insane joke!
0:27:57 > 0:28:00So real, exceptionally imaginative.
0:28:00 > 0:28:03- Oh, dear.- Oh, my God!
0:28:03 > 0:28:07The way they were able to get that portrayed.
0:28:07 > 0:28:09If Jesus wanted women to spread the gospel,
0:28:09 > 0:28:10he would have appointed them.
0:28:10 > 0:28:12It's Matthew, Mark, Luke and John,
0:28:12 > 0:28:14not Sharon, Tracey, Tara and Debbie.
0:28:14 > 0:28:20And to see that actually the Church did not fall apart.
0:28:20 > 0:28:22The sky didn't fall in.
0:28:22 > 0:28:23It didn't fall in.
0:28:23 > 0:28:25No.
0:28:27 > 0:28:30Rose moved on, via West Bromwich, to London
0:28:30 > 0:28:35where, in 1988, she became vicar of a tough inner-city parish
0:28:35 > 0:28:39in Hackney, at the time known for its social deprivation.
0:28:41 > 0:28:45I said, "Rosie, you don't want go there, no, no!"
0:28:47 > 0:28:49But again, Rose being Rose,
0:28:49 > 0:28:55realised that she had something to offer the people there.
0:28:57 > 0:29:01She felt that she could make a difference.
0:29:01 > 0:29:04She would get involved whenever she saw anything that...
0:29:06 > 0:29:09..that, for most people, would be quite alarming.
0:29:09 > 0:29:10You know, she would...
0:29:10 > 0:29:15For example, her heart went out to a lot of the young people
0:29:15 > 0:29:17who had been caught up in gangs or...
0:29:19 > 0:29:21..or knife crime.
0:29:21 > 0:29:26We've had a number of gun crimes and knife crimes in this locality,
0:29:26 > 0:29:30so the challenge is about how we get our young people
0:29:30 > 0:29:35to believe in themselves and to stay away from
0:29:35 > 0:29:39the peer pressure that encourages them.
0:29:39 > 0:29:44How can I help you to be stronger?
0:29:45 > 0:29:48But those weren't the only issues.
0:29:48 > 0:29:50Some members of the church were not welcoming
0:29:50 > 0:29:52and made their views known to Rose.
0:29:54 > 0:29:57The Lord be with you.
0:29:57 > 0:30:03She told me that they were rather put out that I was the priest,
0:30:03 > 0:30:05accepted as the priest there.
0:30:05 > 0:30:09And I had picked up some undercurrents, so I said to her,
0:30:09 > 0:30:12"While you are putting your cards on the table,
0:30:12 > 0:30:14"would you like to put all your cards on the table?
0:30:14 > 0:30:17"Has it got anything to do with the fact that I am black?"
0:30:19 > 0:30:21And she said, "Well, frankly, yes."
0:30:22 > 0:30:24So I took a deep breath and I said,
0:30:24 > 0:30:27"Well, now that you've put your cards on the table,
0:30:27 > 0:30:29"let me put mine on the table.
0:30:29 > 0:30:34"I have just arrived here, I have no intention of leaving.
0:30:34 > 0:30:37"I am very content with myself as a woman.
0:30:37 > 0:30:41"I am very content with myself as being black,
0:30:41 > 0:30:43"so you or anyone else who...
0:30:44 > 0:30:45"If you are unhappy with me
0:30:45 > 0:30:49"because I am a woman and because I am black, you are free to go."
0:30:49 > 0:30:52They didn't leave immediately.
0:30:53 > 0:30:55They stayed and made life difficult.
0:30:55 > 0:30:57- Ohh!- I recall them...
0:30:57 > 0:30:59You know, they would read,
0:30:59 > 0:31:01then they wouldn't receive communion from me.
0:31:01 > 0:31:03Then they wouldn't do this, then they wouldn't do that.
0:31:03 > 0:31:06These were early days for women in ministry.
0:31:06 > 0:31:08There would be some people who would actually think,
0:31:08 > 0:31:14"Well, do we really want a woman in leadership in this position?
0:31:14 > 0:31:16"Do we want a woman,
0:31:16 > 0:31:20"do we want a black woman in leadership in that position?"
0:31:20 > 0:31:24When things are challenging, you go back to your roots.
0:31:24 > 0:31:27One of the songs that I used to sing as a child was
0:31:27 > 0:31:31Jesus Be A Fence All Around Me Every Day.
0:31:31 > 0:31:34# Jesus be a fence
0:31:34 > 0:31:36# All around me every day
0:31:36 > 0:31:39# Jesus, I want you to protect me
0:31:39 > 0:31:41# As I travel along life's way
0:31:41 > 0:31:44# Lord, I know you can Lord, I know you will
0:31:44 > 0:31:46# Fight the battle if I keep still
0:31:46 > 0:31:50# Be a fence all around me every day. #
0:31:50 > 0:31:52- Wonderful!- I used to sing that song.
0:31:52 > 0:31:56That was my prayer, that was my prayer.
0:31:56 > 0:31:58I sang it day and night,
0:31:58 > 0:32:01walking along the street, wherever I was.
0:32:01 > 0:32:03And he was.
0:32:03 > 0:32:05Eventually they left.
0:32:05 > 0:32:08Eventually they left, and do you know what?
0:32:08 > 0:32:10The church grew.
0:32:10 > 0:32:15The church grew and the church flourished.
0:32:15 > 0:32:20I know that by the time I left to go to university at 18,
0:32:20 > 0:32:25the church was packed, packed to the rafters some days, you know,
0:32:25 > 0:32:29we had to go up into the balcony and use that
0:32:29 > 0:32:31and they weren't just people visiting,
0:32:31 > 0:32:34they were regular churchgoers, families,
0:32:34 > 0:32:38that would come every Sunday and were full of praise for my mum.
0:32:40 > 0:32:44And one of the tasks Rose had to take on was to preside over
0:32:44 > 0:32:46a rather an usual service once a year
0:32:46 > 0:32:50in one of the two churches she looked after.
0:32:50 > 0:32:54Holy Trinity Dalston is known as The Clowns' Church.
0:32:56 > 0:32:59- ARCHIVE:- Each year, hundreds of clowns from across the UK
0:32:59 > 0:33:02attend a church service in east London
0:33:02 > 0:33:05to celebrate the gift of joy and laughter.
0:33:05 > 0:33:11All the clowns gather and they gather in their outfits,
0:33:11 > 0:33:17you know, with their faces and the clothing that they wear as clowns.
0:33:17 > 0:33:20Someone would bring rabbits every year as well
0:33:20 > 0:33:23and we'd have a service that was full of laughter.
0:33:23 > 0:33:26CLOWNS CHEER
0:33:26 > 0:33:29I have very fond memories of those.
0:33:29 > 0:33:34It is fun, it is full of laughter, it is full of joy,
0:33:34 > 0:33:38it is a moment, I guess,
0:33:38 > 0:33:42for people to stop thinking about hardships
0:33:42 > 0:33:46or whatever their stresses are and just to laugh.
0:33:46 > 0:33:51They are very unique, I've not heard of anything else like it.
0:33:51 > 0:33:52So they are very special.
0:33:56 > 0:34:00Rose's energy and forthright approach were getting her noticed.
0:34:01 > 0:34:04In 2007, she was chosen to become
0:34:04 > 0:34:07one of the Chaplains to Her Majesty the Queen.
0:34:07 > 0:34:12How do you get the job of Queen's Chaplain?
0:34:12 > 0:34:15She has 36 of you, I think?
0:34:15 > 0:34:19Yes, I'm not quite sure whether all the posts are filled.
0:34:19 > 0:34:23I just happened to have a phone call one day.
0:34:23 > 0:34:27I picked up the phone and it was the Bishop of Guildford.
0:34:27 > 0:34:30He said, "Her Majesty would love you to become one of her chaplains,"
0:34:30 > 0:34:32and I said, "You're joking, aren't you?"
0:34:32 > 0:34:34And he said, "No."
0:34:34 > 0:34:36I was really over the moon for her
0:34:36 > 0:34:38because, as a black person as well,
0:34:38 > 0:34:42to be Chaplain to the Queen I think was very good.
0:34:42 > 0:34:45We would be ringing Jamaica to people who knew Rose
0:34:45 > 0:34:47and saying, "Guess what, guess what!"
0:34:47 > 0:34:49Had you met the Queen?
0:34:49 > 0:34:55I had done things in services where she had been present, yes.
0:34:55 > 0:34:57- Ah-ha!- Yes. - So she had spotted you?
0:34:57 > 0:35:01She had spotted me and, I believe, she had also
0:35:01 > 0:35:05been listening to me on Pause For Thought, I later learned, yes.
0:35:05 > 0:35:08So, it really was her personal pick.
0:35:08 > 0:35:10- Yes, yes.- Wow!
0:35:10 > 0:35:11And then what is the job description?
0:35:11 > 0:35:14Well, it's not an onerous task. We all...
0:35:14 > 0:35:16Her Majesty has a number of private chapels,
0:35:16 > 0:35:20which does not come under the Church of England, so to speak.
0:35:20 > 0:35:23They are what is known as Royal Peculiars,
0:35:23 > 0:35:27so they come under her direct area of responsibility
0:35:27 > 0:35:32and so we take turns preaching in those chapels,
0:35:32 > 0:35:36some lead the acts of worship there, etc.
0:35:36 > 0:35:44So it is not an onerous task and we all get to go to the garden party.
0:35:44 > 0:35:47As the Queen and Prince Philip got to my parents,
0:35:47 > 0:35:50I noticed my mum turning around and pointing to me and my sister
0:35:50 > 0:35:53and Prince Philip looking over like this
0:35:53 > 0:35:56and saying, "Goodness, they are absolutely ginormous,"
0:35:56 > 0:35:59very loudly, and we probably did stand out
0:35:59 > 0:36:02because I'm 5'10" and my sister is six foot,
0:36:02 > 0:36:03so we are quite tall.
0:36:03 > 0:36:06Have you had a chance to have a personal conversation with her?
0:36:06 > 0:36:07Oh, yes, oh, yes.
0:36:07 > 0:36:11I was invited to Windsor Castle for...
0:36:11 > 0:36:13My husband said I shouldn't call it a sleepover,
0:36:13 > 0:36:16but everybody will understand what a sleepover is,
0:36:16 > 0:36:21so, yes, and so you get a chance to speak with a small...
0:36:21 > 0:36:23There's only a very small group of us.
0:36:23 > 0:36:26She is an amazing woman
0:36:26 > 0:36:31and I see her first and foremost as a woman -
0:36:31 > 0:36:36a mother, grandmother, our Queen -
0:36:36 > 0:36:41and someone who has faith and who is not afraid to express that faith
0:36:41 > 0:36:45to talk about her faith, which she does every year
0:36:45 > 0:36:52in her Christmas messages and, clearly, one can see...
0:36:52 > 0:36:54and certainly from my perspective,
0:36:54 > 0:37:00can see that it is a faith that she holds on to.
0:37:00 > 0:37:04It means something to her and that is important.
0:37:07 > 0:37:11In 2010, Rosa's profile was to rise even further
0:37:11 > 0:37:13with a ground-breaking appointment.
0:37:13 > 0:37:15She was the 79th - and first female -
0:37:15 > 0:37:19Chaplain to the Speaker of the House of Commons.
0:37:21 > 0:37:24The role of the Speaker's Chaplain
0:37:24 > 0:37:26is to conduct prayer services in the chamber,
0:37:26 > 0:37:30prior to the start of our normal parliamentary business
0:37:30 > 0:37:32on every sitting day,
0:37:32 > 0:37:35to conduct a variety of other prayer services
0:37:35 > 0:37:38during the course of the year that will arise,
0:37:38 > 0:37:44which ordinarily would be held in the Chapel of St Mary Undercroft.
0:37:44 > 0:37:50Beyond that, the chaplain quite regularly presides over
0:37:50 > 0:37:56and conducts marriage services and christenings.
0:37:56 > 0:38:00And now, here you are, not only the Queen's Chaplain,
0:38:00 > 0:38:03but also the Chaplain of the House of Commons.
0:38:03 > 0:38:05It is amazing.
0:38:05 > 0:38:06Erm...
0:38:07 > 0:38:12I'm told that 97 people applied for the role
0:38:12 > 0:38:15and six of us were shortlisted.
0:38:15 > 0:38:18My mum is very different to the previous people
0:38:18 > 0:38:22that have worked at the House of Commons as chaplain there,
0:38:22 > 0:38:25just from her appearance -
0:38:25 > 0:38:27she is a woman, she is black
0:38:27 > 0:38:32and she's very different from
0:38:32 > 0:38:37the sort of probably middle-class people
0:38:37 > 0:38:38that have worked there previously.
0:38:38 > 0:38:41I think she has a lot to offer there.
0:38:44 > 0:38:45Hi, good morning!
0:38:45 > 0:38:47Good to see you.
0:38:47 > 0:38:50One of the things that I have a really special memory of
0:38:50 > 0:38:52is when I first got elected
0:38:52 > 0:38:58and went into the chamber and there was Rose,
0:38:58 > 0:39:02doing the prayers before the day's business started.
0:39:02 > 0:39:03It was incredibly moving
0:39:03 > 0:39:08because I hadn't realised that we had a chaplain
0:39:08 > 0:39:12and I also hadn't realised that it was a black woman,
0:39:12 > 0:39:15so it was a real surprise.
0:39:15 > 0:39:17Almighty God...
0:39:17 > 0:39:19I felt I must say when she applied for the role,
0:39:19 > 0:39:24that the fact that she'd got gritty urban experience
0:39:24 > 0:39:26as a parish priest in Hackney,
0:39:26 > 0:39:29one of the poorest boroughs in the country,
0:39:29 > 0:39:31was a big positive.
0:39:31 > 0:39:36She's got bucket-loads of positive energy that she sort of gives you.
0:39:36 > 0:39:40It's a bit like having your favourite teacher in Parliament,
0:39:40 > 0:39:44you know, who just inspires you and makes you feel great about yourself.
0:39:45 > 0:39:49But initially, not everyone within the portals of Westminster
0:39:49 > 0:39:52welcomed Rose's appointment.
0:39:52 > 0:39:57I think there were probably those in Parliament who were very sceptical.
0:39:57 > 0:40:01I think one of the most hurtful things during that whole time
0:40:01 > 0:40:06was when the media in particular kept saying
0:40:06 > 0:40:11that it was the Speaker being politically correct,
0:40:11 > 0:40:14why he appointed me.
0:40:14 > 0:40:17You mean positive discrimination? He needed diversity.
0:40:17 > 0:40:20That really, really upset me.
0:40:20 > 0:40:21I should think so.
0:40:21 > 0:40:25I think it's fair to say that, seven years on,
0:40:25 > 0:40:29whatever the initial scepticism in some quarters,
0:40:29 > 0:40:33Rose has cultivated magnificent relationships
0:40:33 > 0:40:35with all who work in the House
0:40:35 > 0:40:39and, in my experience, I've never heard an ill word spoken of her.
0:40:39 > 0:40:44People think she does the job magnificently.
0:40:44 > 0:40:46We value her, we welcome her,
0:40:46 > 0:40:49we feel reinforced and supported by her.
0:40:49 > 0:40:50She can be a well-known figure
0:40:50 > 0:40:52and sometimes a counsellor and a friend
0:40:52 > 0:40:56to people living in a very stressed, high-powered existence,
0:40:56 > 0:41:01and I think Rose has got herself more visible and more involved
0:41:01 > 0:41:03than any chaplain that we've had,
0:41:03 > 0:41:06at least AS INVOLVED as any I remember.
0:41:06 > 0:41:09And she is a very popular figure in and around the House of Commons.
0:41:12 > 0:41:16Rose's tenure as chaplain has been during some traumatic times.
0:41:20 > 0:41:24In March this year, four people died after a terror attack
0:41:24 > 0:41:28when a car drove into pedestrians on Westminster Bridge,
0:41:28 > 0:41:31and PC Keith Palmer, who was guarding Parliament,
0:41:31 > 0:41:33was stabbed to death.
0:41:33 > 0:41:38You've been handed so many difficult things while you've been here.
0:41:38 > 0:41:42I mean, the beginning of this year, the terrible atrocity
0:41:42 > 0:41:44that happened on the bridge,
0:41:44 > 0:41:47which is just 100 yards through that window there,
0:41:47 > 0:41:51and Keith Palmer, the policeman who was killed,
0:41:51 > 0:41:53- someone that you knew.- Yes.
0:41:53 > 0:41:55- NEWS REPORTER:- After crashing the car,
0:41:55 > 0:41:58he forced his way into the precincts of Parliament
0:41:58 > 0:42:00and stabbed an unarmed police officer...
0:42:03 > 0:42:10That sense that the front line of defence and protection of this place
0:42:10 > 0:42:16and all who come here had been violated...
0:42:18 > 0:42:24..in the most appalling way, was something very difficult for us
0:42:24 > 0:42:25to accept.
0:42:25 > 0:42:31And Rose, instinctively, was there on hand
0:42:31 > 0:42:34because people were very shaken, people were
0:42:34 > 0:42:36personally frightened and people were very shaken.
0:42:36 > 0:42:38GUNS FIRING
0:42:39 > 0:42:42The sound of gunfire replacing the bells of Big Ben.
0:42:42 > 0:42:46Go, go, go!
0:42:47 > 0:42:49Move yourself. Go.
0:42:49 > 0:42:54The centre of our government, normally a safe place.
0:42:54 > 0:42:57That horror that must have gone through this building, that
0:42:57 > 0:43:01I know went through the country, was terrible. Where were you?
0:43:01 > 0:43:02Were you here?
0:43:02 > 0:43:06I was actually here in Parliament when we were suddenly called,
0:43:06 > 0:43:10you know, asked to go and gather in one particular area
0:43:10 > 0:43:12because we were locking down. They were coming in.
0:43:12 > 0:43:14They had to search, there was some confusion,
0:43:14 > 0:43:17they didn't know whether more than one person had entered
0:43:17 > 0:43:20the estate and where they were, so they had to search everywhere,
0:43:20 > 0:43:25literally, to make sure that there was nobody else here.
0:43:25 > 0:43:28And inside Parliament, lockdown.
0:43:28 > 0:43:30It was very emotional watching the news
0:43:30 > 0:43:33and seeing what was happening, and knowing that she was there.
0:43:33 > 0:43:40I'd imagine that she was able to offer support to those
0:43:40 > 0:43:44around her, you know, whilst they're waiting to find out more news.
0:43:44 > 0:43:46A car, a weapon.
0:43:46 > 0:43:49Ploughing through members of the public on Westminster Bridge.
0:43:49 > 0:43:54Normally a tourist spot. Today, a site of danger.
0:43:54 > 0:43:58I was eventually told by an officer, who the message had come through,
0:43:58 > 0:44:02and it was a real tragedy.
0:44:02 > 0:44:07I think I described it as evil having visited us.
0:44:08 > 0:44:11An act of evil having visited us.
0:44:11 > 0:44:19She was incredibly reassuring in an environment that was
0:44:19 > 0:44:22incredibly traumatic and febrile.
0:44:22 > 0:44:29Most MPs had to deal with their staff - many MPs had to
0:44:29 > 0:44:30and I did, too -
0:44:30 > 0:44:33had to deal with their staff having witnessed what was happening
0:44:33 > 0:44:36and the trauma that went with that.
0:44:36 > 0:44:40Famously, you've been saying, "I do not engage with negativity.
0:44:40 > 0:44:44"I will keep my path." Then, on that day, you had to.
0:44:44 > 0:44:47So, how did you manage to fill your mind
0:44:47 > 0:44:50with something at least positive?
0:44:50 > 0:44:55Well, it's again by not focusing on the act of evil,
0:44:55 > 0:45:00but focusing on the acts of goodness that was
0:45:00 > 0:45:06so visible in spite of that tragedy, in spite of that evil.
0:45:06 > 0:45:14To have your ambulance staff literally caring for the person,
0:45:14 > 0:45:16that's an amazing image to see.
0:45:16 > 0:45:20Caring for the person who perpetrated that act of evil.
0:45:20 > 0:45:27Rose is able to see faith and to feel faith and to be fortified
0:45:27 > 0:45:34by faith in every circumstance, and in addition to the most natural
0:45:34 > 0:45:38and explicit condemnation of an appalling atrocity...
0:45:40 > 0:45:44..she saw her faith at work in the way that people responded.
0:45:44 > 0:45:47What we want to say to the world, what
0:45:47 > 0:45:53we want to say to those who are looking on is,
0:45:53 > 0:45:59this has happened to us but we are not defined by that act of evil.
0:45:59 > 0:46:04Instead, we are defined by the act of goodness.
0:46:04 > 0:46:06The acts of goodness.
0:46:06 > 0:46:09We're defined by acts of forgiveness, we're
0:46:09 > 0:46:13defined by acts of love.
0:46:13 > 0:46:16Because if we stay in that place where the evil is,
0:46:16 > 0:46:19then we are going to be destroyed.
0:46:19 > 0:46:27She thought nothing of sitting in the chapel through the night
0:46:27 > 0:46:31when other people had gone, when the focus of attention had shifted.
0:46:31 > 0:46:37Rose was there in her place, doing, as she saw it, her duty.
0:46:40 > 0:46:43The shocking attack on Westminster came less than a year after
0:46:43 > 0:46:48parliamentarians had been rocked by the murder of MP Jo Cox,
0:46:48 > 0:46:49in her own constituency.
0:46:51 > 0:46:56The place where Jo Cox was shot and stabbed to death.
0:46:58 > 0:47:01In Yorkshire, Rose joined the Speaker of the House of Commons
0:47:01 > 0:47:04and political leaders to pay their respects.
0:47:06 > 0:47:09You described her as a prophet,
0:47:09 > 0:47:13another life-affirming positive message in the middle of horror.
0:47:14 > 0:47:17- Yes.- What did you mean by that?
0:47:17 > 0:47:25That was a huge tragedy again that did not just clearly hit her family,
0:47:25 > 0:47:32a young mother, a wife, but the community that she served
0:47:32 > 0:47:36and the community here.
0:47:36 > 0:47:41That was a very traumatic time for a lot of people here
0:47:41 > 0:47:48and, you know, the place came together very much and Rose,
0:47:48 > 0:47:52as the chaplain, played a very important role, I think,
0:47:52 > 0:47:56in providing that reassurance, listening to people.
0:47:56 > 0:48:00Sometimes people would stop by and chat to her -
0:48:00 > 0:48:03and I certainly did - and talk about Jo.
0:48:03 > 0:48:08Although her frame was tiny, she was huge.
0:48:08 > 0:48:10We have a saying in the Caribbean - certainly in Jamaica -
0:48:10 > 0:48:12mi likkle but mi Tallawah.
0:48:14 > 0:48:18Meaning, I am little but I'm strong.
0:48:18 > 0:48:20And for me, that was her.
0:48:22 > 0:48:26So she made a difference, a huge difference
0:48:26 > 0:48:29and all the things that she stood for.
0:48:29 > 0:48:31The thing that surprises me time and time
0:48:31 > 0:48:34again as I travel around the constituency is that we are far more
0:48:34 > 0:48:37united and have far more in common that than that which divides us.
0:48:37 > 0:48:40That's a huge message for us to learn.
0:48:42 > 0:48:44Candles in Parliament Square tonight
0:48:44 > 0:48:46to remember a politician with a spark.
0:48:51 > 0:48:56She held services at the Houses of Parliament for
0:48:56 > 0:49:00anybody that wanted to remember Jo.
0:49:00 > 0:49:03It's difficult to know how these things affect my mum
0:49:03 > 0:49:09because she doesn't... She doesn't show that she's affected by it.
0:49:09 > 0:49:12She just carries on going and carries on thinking
0:49:12 > 0:49:20about everybody else and making sure that she gives as much as she can.
0:49:20 > 0:49:23Having her support at the time of the murder of Jo Cox
0:49:23 > 0:49:26and having her support at the time of the murder of Keith Palmer,
0:49:26 > 0:49:30having her support personally, but having her support for all
0:49:30 > 0:49:34of my colleagues, having her support institutionally, was of the essence.
0:49:37 > 0:49:40But it's not just during the times of high-profile events
0:49:40 > 0:49:42that Rose comes to the fore.
0:49:42 > 0:49:47She always has an eye on MPs facing difficult times in their lives, too.
0:49:49 > 0:49:52The most touching thing she did as far as I personally was concerned,
0:49:52 > 0:49:57was when I lost my wife, a little over two years ago,
0:49:57 > 0:49:59Rose travelled all the way to Nottingham,
0:49:59 > 0:50:02turned up at her funeral amongst the guests.
0:50:02 > 0:50:04Now, I didn't know she was coming.
0:50:04 > 0:50:06I hadn't invited her because I didn't think
0:50:06 > 0:50:09she'd be able to come all the way to Nottingham.
0:50:09 > 0:50:12She probably had met my wife once or twice,
0:50:12 > 0:50:14but I thought that was a very nice gesture.
0:50:14 > 0:50:18That obviously went way beyond anything to do with her duties
0:50:18 > 0:50:19as Chaplain to the House.
0:50:19 > 0:50:23She just wanted to express her sympathy with me and my family.
0:50:23 > 0:50:26Well, that, I think, was a very nice, touching thing to do.
0:50:29 > 0:50:32The personal and professional lives of MPs can also
0:50:32 > 0:50:34impact on Rose in very different ways.
0:50:37 > 0:50:39You know, politicians are always being accused of something or
0:50:39 > 0:50:45other, whether it's fiddling expenses or backhanders or...
0:50:45 > 0:50:50Now, this sexual harassment thing. How do you see the...?
0:50:50 > 0:50:51You know, when I...
0:50:52 > 0:50:57When I was in Hackney, I was constantly being told that the
0:50:57 > 0:50:59police were racist.
0:51:00 > 0:51:03And there's a context of that, but I was constantly being
0:51:03 > 0:51:05told they're racist, they're racist.
0:51:05 > 0:51:11And my reaction to that was that the police were not an alien
0:51:11 > 0:51:17group from some other planet but that they were a microcosm
0:51:17 > 0:51:21for the rest of the community.
0:51:21 > 0:51:26Politicians are not a group of aliens from another planet either.
0:51:26 > 0:51:30They're ordinary human beings, even though sometimes, you know,
0:51:30 > 0:51:34the way they are set up, the way sometimes they are often put on a
0:51:34 > 0:51:37pedestal and it's knocked away from them and they fall
0:51:37 > 0:51:41and they fall really hard, they're ordinary human beings.
0:51:43 > 0:51:48They have weaknesses like everybody else in the community.
0:51:48 > 0:51:52Of course, there is an expectation that they are in high office
0:51:52 > 0:51:55and we expect them, in the same way that the clergy, you know,
0:51:55 > 0:51:56you are expected,
0:51:56 > 0:52:01certain expectation that you will behave in an honourable way.
0:52:01 > 0:52:04But they're human beings and, you know,
0:52:04 > 0:52:07they are fallible human beings.
0:52:07 > 0:52:10But that makes them understandable but it's still not acceptable.
0:52:10 > 0:52:13Oh, it never is acceptable.
0:52:13 > 0:52:16That behaviour, whether it is expenses or
0:52:16 > 0:52:20whether it is harassment, it is never acceptable.
0:52:20 > 0:52:22I appreciate that...
0:52:22 > 0:52:25So what of the future for Rose?
0:52:25 > 0:52:29She's already risen to a role at the heart of the British establishment.
0:52:29 > 0:52:33Three years ago, the Church of England Synod finally
0:52:33 > 0:52:37approved women bishops with existing church leaders doing a victory jig.
0:52:37 > 0:52:41# We are marching in the light of God
0:52:41 > 0:52:44# We are marching in the light of God.#
0:52:46 > 0:52:50Is the next step for Rose to become a bishop?
0:52:50 > 0:52:53So, when your name is bandied about,
0:52:53 > 0:52:57there must be part of you that thinks, I think that would be...
0:52:57 > 0:53:01that would be nice if it's the right thing and I felt it was right.
0:53:02 > 0:53:06If it was the right thing, then hopefully
0:53:06 > 0:53:12I would know that it was right and not just me, but whoever is...
0:53:12 > 0:53:14- Uh-huh.- Yes, would know that is right.
0:53:14 > 0:53:16- So not just your vanity.- Absolutely.
0:53:22 > 0:53:25In a purely selfish sense, I very much hope that Rose
0:53:25 > 0:53:27stays as Speaker's Chaplain for a very long time to come.
0:53:27 > 0:53:32- Come on in.- Good morning, Rose. - Good morning.
0:53:33 > 0:53:35She is a terrific support to me
0:53:35 > 0:53:38and a terrific support to the House of Commons.
0:53:40 > 0:53:43- So how has your week been this last week?- Everything's gone wrong.
0:53:43 > 0:53:46Baby-sitter's been ill, the children have been ill, I was ill.
0:53:46 > 0:53:49That said, for her sake and for the wider
0:53:49 > 0:53:53cause of the Church of England and even, dare I say it, its
0:53:53 > 0:53:59potential revival, I very much hope that she climbs the church ladder.
0:54:02 > 0:54:05Whatever lies ahead for Rose, those close to her believe
0:54:05 > 0:54:09the challenges she faced while growing up have steeled her
0:54:09 > 0:54:12to face the future, however that may unfold.
0:54:14 > 0:54:17I think the resilience that she shows has probably got a lot
0:54:17 > 0:54:19to do with how she...
0:54:19 > 0:54:22With her growing up in Jamaica in terms of, you know,
0:54:22 > 0:54:24not having her parents,
0:54:24 > 0:54:27her mum moving away and then losing her sister,
0:54:27 > 0:54:32who she was separated from when they were living in different cities.
0:54:32 > 0:54:35So I think she's always had this attitude of, right, you know,
0:54:35 > 0:54:40this is your life, you need to just keep moving forwards
0:54:40 > 0:54:43and working towards what you want.
0:54:45 > 0:54:50She has been a towering presence morally, spiritually,
0:54:50 > 0:54:54humanely, and I think that she feels that my ministry
0:54:54 > 0:54:57is my ministry and I'm here to serve.
0:54:57 > 0:55:01No matter how difficult the situation she's been in,
0:55:01 > 0:55:08she's never doubted that level of faith in God that she's had.
0:55:08 > 0:55:11And that's been a real strengthening and a help for her in life.
0:55:13 > 0:55:15Hello.
0:55:16 > 0:55:22# Once in royal David's city...#
0:55:23 > 0:55:26Advent. What does it mean to you?
0:55:26 > 0:55:30Advent is about getting ready for the Christ's child,
0:55:30 > 0:55:33the coming of God incarnate.
0:55:33 > 0:55:35God becoming man and dwelling.
0:55:37 > 0:55:41God becoming human and dwelling in our midst.
0:55:41 > 0:55:45- The Lord be with you. - And also with you.
0:55:45 > 0:55:49It's an active preparation, getting ready,
0:55:49 > 0:55:54getting one's soul ready, getting one's physical space ready, just
0:55:54 > 0:56:00getting ready, intuned, because something is going to happen.
0:56:00 > 0:56:02- Are you ready?- Absolutely ready.
0:56:02 > 0:56:07One more Sunday to go and we'll be there. So, yes - very, very ready.
0:56:10 > 0:56:15Christmas is about love. Christmas is about sharing.
0:56:15 > 0:56:17Christmas is about serving.
0:56:17 > 0:56:21Christmas is about giving, it is not about what we receive.
0:56:21 > 0:56:24It's not about us.
0:56:24 > 0:56:27Rose, I am very grateful. This is fantastic.
0:56:27 > 0:56:30Stand up, because I want to give you a hug and just say
0:56:30 > 0:56:32- happy Christmas because... - Thank you.
0:56:32 > 0:56:34- ..this has been marvellous. - It is coming.
0:56:34 > 0:56:36It is coming and everything that you do,
0:56:36 > 0:56:38thank you so much indeed for sharing.
0:56:38 > 0:56:40It's been a real pleasure, thank you.
0:56:43 > 0:56:48Well, I began today wondering how Rose had kept her strength
0:56:48 > 0:56:50and courage up through all that life has thrown at her,
0:56:50 > 0:56:54and I think the answer is that she doesn't engage with
0:56:54 > 0:56:58troubles around her unless they're worth engaging with.
0:56:58 > 0:57:01And, funnily enough, that disengagement has opened the road
0:57:01 > 0:57:04for her to get on with life and ignore the troublesome stuff
0:57:04 > 0:57:08that takes her focus off where she's going and what she wants to
0:57:08 > 0:57:11do, how she wants it to be in life.
0:57:11 > 0:57:14And, if anything, that's the best Christmas present perhaps that she
0:57:14 > 0:57:15could give us.
0:57:15 > 0:57:18When things are troubling you, don't engage,
0:57:18 > 0:57:20move on with the things that are important.
0:57:20 > 0:57:24So I'm wishing you a very happy Christmas.