27/05/2012

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0:00:02 > 0:00:06In the 21st-century, does it matter what happens behind these doors?

0:00:07 > 0:00:09This assembly is, I know,

0:00:09 > 0:00:12one of the great historic councils of the British Isles.

0:00:12 > 0:00:16Which has, for centuries, been a forum for a nation's reflection

0:00:16 > 0:00:22on the most serious ethical and public questions facing Scotland.

0:00:22 > 0:00:25If there is no other such forum in the shape of the Scottish Parliament,

0:00:25 > 0:00:29that does not take away the solemnity of this meeting.

0:00:29 > 0:00:32Seeking, as it does, to bring the light of Christ to bare

0:00:32 > 0:00:36not only on its own business, but on the concerns of this society.

0:00:48 > 0:00:51800 people from all over Scotland and beyond have gathered

0:00:51 > 0:00:54in Edinburgh this week for the General Assembly

0:00:54 > 0:00:56of the Church of Scotland.

0:00:56 > 0:00:59All of the reports considered and debated by the Assembly

0:00:59 > 0:01:03are contained in this, it is called the Blue Book.

0:01:03 > 0:01:07The working group on human sexuality has produced a report,

0:01:07 > 0:01:09it is called Believing in Marriage.

0:01:09 > 0:01:13Last time there was a report on marriage in 1994,

0:01:13 > 0:01:16they made specific recommendations that actually split the committee

0:01:16 > 0:01:22which produced the report, resulting in a dissenting minority report.

0:01:22 > 0:01:24They do not want that to happen this year,

0:01:24 > 0:01:26so they have not made any recommendations.

0:01:26 > 0:01:28But they do ask questions.

0:01:28 > 0:01:32They list some possibilities the Kirk might want to think about. For instance,

0:01:32 > 0:01:35"fewer and fewer couples marry as virgins and all

0:01:35 > 0:01:39"but if you are sexually experienced with one another.

0:01:39 > 0:01:45"Should a marriage service state that only now do the cleave together and become one?"

0:01:45 > 0:01:48And, does that question imply that the Kirk

0:01:48 > 0:01:51may have to face up to reality and abandon the traditional view

0:01:51 > 0:01:55that marriage is the gateway to sexual behaviour?

0:01:56 > 0:02:01If there was division in 1994, it was also very evident in 2010.

0:02:01 > 0:02:05There was a whirlwind romance, we were engaged within weeks.

0:02:07 > 0:02:12And, Moderator, we had sex before we were married.

0:02:13 > 0:02:18Moderator, what I do remember was that it was great.

0:02:19 > 0:02:24It was the full physical, fluffy expression

0:02:24 > 0:02:27of the love that we had for one another.

0:02:28 > 0:02:32A love that has sustained 26 years of married life

0:02:32 > 0:02:38and a love that has enriched my life and, I believe, my ministry.

0:02:39 > 0:02:44Moderator, I do not believe that we were setting a precedent.

0:02:44 > 0:02:47LAUGHTER

0:02:47 > 0:02:49I have seen my dad's birth certificate.

0:02:50 > 0:02:53So I know that may granny and grandad where at it, too.

0:02:55 > 0:02:58Moderator, sex runs in our family.

0:02:58 > 0:03:02APPLAUSE AND LAUGHTER

0:03:07 > 0:03:11We have talked about sex such a lot over these past days,

0:03:11 > 0:03:13sex as a problem.

0:03:13 > 0:03:18We have said very little about it that was joyful or

0:03:18 > 0:03:23thankful for this great gift that God has given us.

0:03:23 > 0:03:25Young and old.

0:03:26 > 0:03:31If I had my three teenage daughters in this auditorium when such

0:03:31 > 0:03:36a degree of laughter was engaged in and such levity was applauded I would

0:03:36 > 0:03:41have been highly embarrassed for my daughters and I just don't think...

0:03:41 > 0:03:42APPLAUSE

0:03:44 > 0:03:48..the kind of message that we were sending out even by

0:03:48 > 0:03:53engaging in such levity and laughter was one which I would want to commend

0:03:53 > 0:03:57to my 19-year-old daughter who gets married in two months' time.

0:03:57 > 0:04:00And I think that if we want to give our young people a biblical

0:04:00 > 0:04:05lead on sexuality then we must return to the Scriptures,

0:04:05 > 0:04:09we must come back with a report that honours the Scriptures.

0:04:10 > 0:04:13In the New Testament book First Corinthians,

0:04:13 > 0:04:16Paul sings the praises of celibacy.

0:04:16 > 0:04:19But, he says, it is better to marry than burn with desire,

0:04:19 > 0:04:21which could be interpreted to mean

0:04:21 > 0:04:23that sex outside marriage is not an option.

0:04:23 > 0:04:26I was brought up in a Christian home,

0:04:26 > 0:04:27brought up within the church,

0:04:27 > 0:04:32and at no point was I ever told that the Bible was a rulebook.

0:04:32 > 0:04:37But it was something through which I could learn about Jesus

0:04:37 > 0:04:38and learn about the love of God.

0:04:40 > 0:04:43But that is not how everyone sees it.

0:04:43 > 0:04:46Lynn McChlery is Minister of Eaglesham Church of Scotland.

0:04:46 > 0:04:48I certainly think we have to face facts,

0:04:48 > 0:04:53because as Christians we have to address society as it is

0:04:53 > 0:04:56and certainly, society looks at sexual relationships

0:04:56 > 0:05:00in a very different way nowadays than we did before.

0:05:00 > 0:05:04As Christians, we believe that the Bible is given to us by God,

0:05:04 > 0:05:07that it has a certain kind of authority,

0:05:07 > 0:05:13and that we disregard those principles, authorities at our peril.

0:05:13 > 0:05:19So...it is really a question of taking the Bible, the Word of God,

0:05:19 > 0:05:22and looking and society today and saying,

0:05:22 > 0:05:25"What is God saying to us about the way we live?"

0:05:25 > 0:05:29And how does God want us to live as sexual beings?

0:05:29 > 0:05:35I have tried to live my life according to Christian principles,

0:05:35 > 0:05:40and to see that the most important thing in my life

0:05:40 > 0:05:45and the most important thing in terms of the world, is love.

0:05:45 > 0:05:49And to see that as being, and the physical expression of love,

0:05:49 > 0:05:53to see those things as being positives, and so,

0:05:53 > 0:05:58when I felt that I was in a relationship that was loving

0:05:58 > 0:06:06and good and I felt was going to be the relationship of my life,

0:06:06 > 0:06:10that it was quite natural that it had a sexual expression.

0:06:10 > 0:06:15So, does Lynn McChlery think that Christians should maintain the rule

0:06:15 > 0:06:18that until the day of the wedding, a couple should remain celibate?

0:06:18 > 0:06:22I think Christians are obliged to stay within that message.

0:06:22 > 0:06:28We can make that sound as if it is a prison sentence, and that depends,

0:06:28 > 0:06:32I suppose on how you see the message, the laws of the Bible.

0:06:32 > 0:06:36Do be seen as being restrictive, is God a killjoy?

0:06:36 > 0:06:40Or are we dealing with a God who gives us guidelines,

0:06:40 > 0:06:43strong guidelines for human conduct

0:06:43 > 0:06:47because, in fact, that is the best way to live.

0:06:47 > 0:06:52A God who has our wholeness, our well-being fundamentally at heart.

0:06:52 > 0:06:56Folk of my background and my generation have to ask themselves,

0:06:56 > 0:07:00have we learned nothing about human sexuality

0:07:00 > 0:07:05and gender in the 2,000 years since most of the Scripture was written?

0:07:05 > 0:07:08And the answer is that we know things today

0:07:08 > 0:07:10that folk back then did not know.

0:07:10 > 0:07:16And therefore, we make decisions based not just on an ancient book,

0:07:16 > 0:07:21but on the lived experience of Christians and others

0:07:21 > 0:07:23in the intervening years,

0:07:23 > 0:07:27and we make that call within our own personal relationships.

0:07:27 > 0:07:30And that is what I did.

0:07:30 > 0:07:33Someone once said that in marriage

0:07:33 > 0:07:36you are ordained to the Sacrament of Sex.

0:07:36 > 0:07:40I have never used that expression in a marriage service

0:07:40 > 0:07:45I am probably not going to use it any time soon, but I think it

0:07:45 > 0:07:52expresses something core, that the sexual act is supposed to express

0:07:52 > 0:07:59a spiritual, emotional, legal, social union between these two people.

0:07:59 > 0:08:03And that is the sexual act at its fullest expression.

0:08:03 > 0:08:07That is primarily, ideally what it was designed for.

0:08:07 > 0:08:10- # Let's get married - I love you

0:08:10 > 0:08:13# And I want to stay with you

0:08:13 > 0:08:17- # Let's get married - Have kids

0:08:17 > 0:08:21# Grow old and grey with you

0:08:21 > 0:08:23- # Let's get married - Holds hands

0:08:23 > 0:08:26# Walk in the park

0:08:26 > 0:08:28# Let's get married. #

0:08:28 > 0:08:32Weddings are still popular in Scotland,

0:08:32 > 0:08:34with are around 30,000 ceremonies a year.

0:08:34 > 0:08:37That figure has remained steady for the last 20 years,

0:08:37 > 0:08:42although couples are now marrying at an older age, and many are avoiding

0:08:42 > 0:08:45church weddings in favour of humanist ceremonies.

0:08:45 > 0:08:49But according to historian Dr Lesley Orr, married to Peter McDonald,

0:08:49 > 0:08:52marriage has always been evolving.

0:08:52 > 0:08:55It is not something that is fixed,

0:08:55 > 0:09:01it is not something that is a given, it is a diverse institution that has

0:09:01 > 0:09:07depended very much on the context of time and place and circumstance

0:09:07 > 0:09:12and the norms of gender relationships and so on,

0:09:12 > 0:09:14which is why, you know, to look

0:09:14 > 0:09:21back to the ancient culture out of which Christianity emerged and expect

0:09:21 > 0:09:26to find in that the kind of social relationships and organisations

0:09:26 > 0:09:31that are appropriate for our time and place is, to me, a bit bizarre.

0:09:31 > 0:09:34So, would she no longer expect marriage to be

0:09:34 > 0:09:38the gateway to a sexual relationship?

0:09:38 > 0:09:41No, that is just a statement of fact.

0:09:41 > 0:09:47No, it clearly is not for the vast majority of people who get married.

0:09:48 > 0:09:53So much of the symbolism and the ritual around marriage

0:09:53 > 0:09:57still is reflected in that whole idea, wearing white.

0:09:57 > 0:10:01The idea of a bride being given away by her father,

0:10:01 > 0:10:04there's a whole lot of stuff in there that we really need to change

0:10:04 > 0:10:08and that people do and have started to change.

0:10:08 > 0:10:14And stay much more kind of personal involvement and...responsibility

0:10:14 > 0:10:19for shaping what is going to be meaningful to them

0:10:19 > 0:10:24while placing it in the context of this loving commitment.

0:10:24 > 0:10:29There is something profound about the way in which human love can

0:10:29 > 0:10:31reflect what makes life sacred.

0:10:34 > 0:10:36Mr Donald, thank you.

0:10:36 > 0:10:41We do believe in marriage, despite there being clear voices, whether

0:10:41 > 0:10:45in newspapers, literature or philosophy who would not stand there.

0:10:47 > 0:10:48And we believe in marriage

0:10:48 > 0:10:52because it may be seen to have a place within Christian discipleship,

0:10:52 > 0:10:56not to mention well beyond the bounds of the Christian church.

0:10:57 > 0:11:01To be Christian is not only for those who marry, of course.

0:11:01 > 0:11:02Certainly not.

0:11:02 > 0:11:04But for those who do,

0:11:04 > 0:11:08the joys and trials of faith in God feed into married life.

0:11:09 > 0:11:12Amongst the more general population, we would be inclined to

0:11:12 > 0:11:15uphold marriage in related terms.

0:11:15 > 0:11:22That is, as well as providing a solid foundation for human relationships,

0:11:22 > 0:11:25it points any and all towards the love of God.

0:11:27 > 0:11:30Sadly, we hear more regularly about dramas

0:11:30 > 0:11:36and crises in marriage, rather than about daily negotiations

0:11:36 > 0:11:38and lifelong transformations.

0:11:38 > 0:11:44And again, church perhaps has been rather too obvious in its participation around weddings.

0:11:45 > 0:11:49And rather too silent about sustaining

0:11:49 > 0:11:52and healing relationships and new starts.

0:11:54 > 0:12:01It is always time for us to ask, how, with God's help, can we do it?

0:12:03 > 0:12:06The report provoked very little discussion,

0:12:06 > 0:12:08but there was one lighter moment.

0:12:09 > 0:12:11Moderator, I seem to have...

0:12:11 > 0:12:16- Could you give us your number, please.- Do I have to?

0:12:16 > 0:12:18- Yes.- 666.

0:12:18 > 0:12:20LAUGHTER

0:12:20 > 0:12:27The Church of Scotland sends men and women to all three armed services to act as chaplains.

0:12:27 > 0:12:30And on Thursday, some of them were at the assembly the report of

0:12:30 > 0:12:35the Chaplains Committee presented by its somewhat modest convenor, Neil Gardner.

0:12:35 > 0:12:38Neil Gardner. 006.

0:12:41 > 0:12:43The story of my life.

0:12:43 > 0:12:46As often happens, in the discussion which followed,

0:12:46 > 0:12:50there was a contribution from the floor based on personal experience.

0:12:50 > 0:12:54Moderator, between the years 1981 to 1998

0:12:54 > 0:13:01I spent eight years in HMP Saughton as a prison chaplain.

0:13:01 > 0:13:04LAUGHTER

0:13:04 > 0:13:10I served as a part-time prison chaplain for eight years,

0:13:10 > 0:13:15I still have a constant stream of men coming to my door at the mance in Rosslyn

0:13:15 > 0:13:19through a prison connection. And they are men who are broken,

0:13:19 > 0:13:23they are men who are exhausted, nobody wants to know them,

0:13:23 > 0:13:26they cannot access, I say to them, "Do you have a doctor?"

0:13:26 > 0:13:29They do not have a permanent address, many of them,

0:13:29 > 0:13:31so they cannot have a doctor.

0:13:31 > 0:13:37So they cannot go and access health care, medical healthcare,

0:13:37 > 0:13:38and through a doctor,

0:13:38 > 0:13:42perhaps be channelled to some of the charities that exist.

0:13:43 > 0:13:50My feeling is that there is, yes, governmental money given in a

0:13:50 > 0:13:55drip feed system to charities, but it is not consistent and I

0:13:55 > 0:14:01would like the Assembly to urge the government to be more consistent

0:14:01 > 0:14:06and to provide for men and women who have put their lives on the line.

0:14:07 > 0:14:11And, yes, have watched some of their colleagues die before their eyes,

0:14:11 > 0:14:15and have come away traumatised by that experience.

0:14:17 > 0:14:20Please, commissioners, they do not just step

0:14:20 > 0:14:25out of their uniform after a wee debriefing and go, "I am OK."

0:14:25 > 0:14:30Their lives continue and then months, years, decades later,

0:14:30 > 0:14:32the lives fall apart.

0:14:32 > 0:14:35On the closing day of last year's Assembly,

0:14:35 > 0:14:39the principal clerk, John Chalmers, received news that his son,

0:14:39 > 0:14:42also John, and been badly injured in Afghanistan.

0:14:42 > 0:14:45Throughout the year, members were able to follow the slow

0:14:45 > 0:14:49but steady process of treatment and recovery.

0:14:49 > 0:14:53Young John was well enough to attend the assembly last Saturday.

0:14:54 > 0:14:58On Thursday, his father had a chance to thank the Assembly for their support.

0:14:58 > 0:15:04We have been with soldiers who were there in theatre,

0:15:04 > 0:15:09who saw things, and experienced things that you would hope that

0:15:09 > 0:15:12young men and women would never have to experience.

0:15:12 > 0:15:17But because they come home without the visible signs of being wounded,

0:15:17 > 0:15:22there is less inclination for them to seek the help and support

0:15:22 > 0:15:27they might need, and less inclination for us to seek them out.

0:15:27 > 0:15:30And so anything that can be done in this way,

0:15:30 > 0:15:33I am sure would be valuable.

0:15:33 > 0:15:41I would want to take this moment to record, appropriately or inappropriately,

0:15:41 > 0:15:45thanks to people in this hall and beyond who have supported us

0:15:45 > 0:15:50and to encourage you to think more and more of the hinterland of people

0:15:50 > 0:15:55who need continued support having come back from these theatres of war.

0:15:55 > 0:16:00This last year has been a significant journey for us,

0:16:00 > 0:16:05in fact it was one year ago today that the journey began.

0:16:05 > 0:16:10In some ways, this closes the circle of the year

0:16:10 > 0:16:13of a journey that no one would want to travel,

0:16:13 > 0:16:15but when you travel it you are glad

0:16:15 > 0:16:19that there are those who are prepared to travel it with you. Thank you.

0:16:19 > 0:16:21APPLAUSE

0:16:21 > 0:16:25Major General Andrew Graham, a colonel of the Royal Scottish Regiment,

0:16:25 > 0:16:28was in the gallery as a guest of the Lord High Commissioner.

0:16:28 > 0:16:31He gave the Assembly a sense of how the Army values its chaplains,

0:16:31 > 0:16:34quoting the First World War chaplain Geoffrey Studdert Kennedy.

0:16:34 > 0:16:38He wrote, "When a chaplain joins a battalion,

0:16:38 > 0:16:41"no one says a word to him about God.

0:16:41 > 0:16:46"But everyone asks him in a thousand different ways, 'What is God like?'

0:16:46 > 0:16:51"His success or failure as a chaplain depends on the answer

0:16:51 > 0:16:54"he gives by word and by deed.

0:16:55 > 0:16:58"But the answer by deed is much more important."

0:16:58 > 0:17:02Moderator, it is impossible to underestimate the importance

0:17:02 > 0:17:07of a good Padre to the morale, sense of well-being, confidence and effectiveness of a unit,

0:17:07 > 0:17:12a ship, a station. And of a good team or body of Padres to

0:17:12 > 0:17:16a formation or institution like a brigade or a division.

0:17:16 > 0:17:18Wherever I have served,

0:17:18 > 0:17:22whether it is a battalion, on the staff, in the training organisation

0:17:22 > 0:17:25or on operations, I have seen time and again that military chaplains

0:17:25 > 0:17:28play a pivotal and essential role in

0:17:28 > 0:17:33sustaining what is colloquially called the moral component of fighting power,

0:17:33 > 0:17:37the character of the organisation and the ability to know what right looks like

0:17:37 > 0:17:41and to do the difficult thing, the right thing on a difficult day.

0:17:41 > 0:17:47On or off operations, every commander on every service will testify that

0:17:47 > 0:17:51a trusted chaplain is as invaluable as a critical friend and comrade.

0:17:51 > 0:17:54Always available to those who need him,

0:17:54 > 0:18:00sensing where help and a strong shoulder is needed, providing gentle, purposeful, principled

0:18:00 > 0:18:05and disinterested in the true sense of the word, support and insurance.

0:18:05 > 0:18:08He or she is someone with time just to give time.

0:18:08 > 0:18:12The services are really grateful that high-calibre men and women

0:18:12 > 0:18:16of the Church of Scotland and its associated churches see fit to step forward

0:18:16 > 0:18:21and offer themselves for service in one capacity or another.

0:18:21 > 0:18:25One of the distinctive things about this year's Assembly has been

0:18:25 > 0:18:27the worship led by the moderator.

0:18:27 > 0:18:30# It is God's word for saving us... #

0:18:30 > 0:18:33He is, as we saw on Wednesday, a singer.

0:18:33 > 0:18:37# Come, Holy spirit and teach us of all things

0:18:37 > 0:18:39# Remind us of how Jesus

0:18:39 > 0:18:45# The word of life he brings

0:18:45 > 0:18:47# Listen for the gospel

0:18:47 > 0:18:49# Hallelujah

0:18:49 > 0:18:52# It is God's way of healing us

0:18:52 > 0:18:54# Hallelujah. #

0:18:55 > 0:19:00On Wednesday, the committee on Ecumenical Relations delivered its report.

0:19:00 > 0:19:04Dr Williams, you are most welcome among others, we look forward to you

0:19:04 > 0:19:07addressing the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland.

0:19:07 > 0:19:09And appropriately enough, the Archbishop of Canterbury headed

0:19:09 > 0:19:12the Anglican Communion, Rowan Williams addressed the Assembly.

0:19:12 > 0:19:17Moderator, brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ,

0:19:17 > 0:19:20if our task as a Church is to hear the call of God

0:19:20 > 0:19:25and if that call is to witness to the open door set before us

0:19:25 > 0:19:29by Jesus, there are some of the challenges it may entail.

0:19:31 > 0:19:34To rethink what it is to be present in every community.

0:19:36 > 0:19:40To embody the possibilities of transformation

0:19:40 > 0:19:45and joy that our society, deliberately or not, tries to extinguish.

0:19:46 > 0:19:52To show that society that it lives in the midst of glory, judgement,

0:19:52 > 0:19:54mystery and beauty.

0:19:54 > 0:19:59The new world on the other side of the door.

0:19:59 > 0:20:02No one church can be adequate for these tasks,

0:20:03 > 0:20:05here in Scotland or anywhere else.

0:20:07 > 0:20:09My prayer is that we shall learn with

0:20:09 > 0:20:13and from one another as we seek to hold that door open.

0:20:15 > 0:20:20Rejoicing together that we are ourselves invited in

0:20:20 > 0:20:23to be at home with Christ.

0:20:23 > 0:20:27APPLAUSE

0:20:27 > 0:20:31I believe your parents were originally Presbyterians.

0:20:31 > 0:20:37APPLAUSE AND LAUGHTER

0:20:39 > 0:20:42And my parents were Anglicans.

0:20:42 > 0:20:46LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE

0:20:48 > 0:20:54The Archbishop's reception aptly illustrated the Assembly's view on Ecumenical partnership.

0:20:54 > 0:20:57It has been a lively General Assembly.

0:20:57 > 0:21:01Perhaps the flavour was set on day one when the World Mission Council Report

0:21:01 > 0:21:05was delivered by its convenor, the very Reverend Andrew McLellan,

0:21:05 > 0:21:08who declared the year ahead to be the year of China,

0:21:08 > 0:21:11where the Presbyterian Church is growing apace.

0:21:12 > 0:21:19A few months ago in Shenyang, an old man wept when he held my hand

0:21:19 > 0:21:21and said it meant everything to him

0:21:21 > 0:21:24to meet somebody from the Church of Scotland.

0:21:24 > 0:21:27Because it was from Scotland.

0:21:27 > 0:21:31That Dr John Ross came to bring the gospel of God to China.

0:21:33 > 0:21:38Under John Ross, God had called this man's grandfather to Christian faith.

0:21:41 > 0:21:46And as this dear old man asked me how today we venerated the name of

0:21:46 > 0:21:53John Ross in Scotland, I shrank from telling him that the seminary that

0:21:53 > 0:22:01John Ross attended in Queen Street in Edinburgh was now Jools Holland's night club.

0:22:03 > 0:22:10The church of which that old man is a member, which owed under God its life to a Scottish missionary

0:22:10 > 0:22:15has 30,000 members.

0:22:15 > 0:22:23That congregation has, every Sunday, 10,000 people at public worship.

0:22:23 > 0:22:30The colleagues who advised Ross as a young man to leave his native Rossshire

0:22:30 > 0:22:38with the words, "Better to be a spark in China

0:22:38 > 0:22:40"than a flame in the Black Isle."

0:22:43 > 0:22:48He could scarcely have guessed what a harvest would come from his words.

0:22:50 > 0:22:54Vice-convenor Iain Cunningham has written a hymn.

0:22:54 > 0:23:00Moderator, as we begin to start our journey of living and working and worshipping

0:23:00 > 0:23:06with the Christian people of China, I hope you will invite the General Assembly

0:23:06 > 0:23:12to stand and sing the world premiere of this new hymn, Love Never Ends.

0:23:14 > 0:23:18# Lord of the universe

0:23:18 > 0:23:21# Lord of the years

0:23:21 > 0:23:27# Love that is boundless And knows no frontiers

0:23:27 > 0:23:34# Through all creation Your spirit extends

0:23:34 > 0:23:42# Tangible signs that Your love never ends. #

0:23:42 > 0:23:45Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd