0:00:03 > 0:00:05Welcome to Edinburgh, where the Church of Scotland is
0:00:05 > 0:00:09holding its Annual General Assembly, bringing together representatives,
0:00:09 > 0:00:12commissioners, from right across the country and,
0:00:12 > 0:00:17indeed, around the world to debate and vote on issues of the day.
0:00:28 > 0:00:31The Assembly has been meeting here for almost 90 years.
0:00:31 > 0:00:36Today, despite appearances, the Church of Scotland is very
0:00:36 > 0:00:39much open for business.
0:00:39 > 0:00:41Since this is the national church for Scotland,
0:00:41 > 0:00:44the British sovereign is always represented.
0:00:44 > 0:00:49This year, Her Majesty's High Commissioner is Princess Anne.
0:01:09 > 0:01:14I have been reminded by obviously a very good brief,
0:01:14 > 0:01:19and somebody who's been digging around in the archives,
0:01:19 > 0:01:24that my very first visit to the General Assembly
0:01:24 > 0:01:29of the Church of Scotland was probably long before most of you...
0:01:29 > 0:01:32LAUGHTER.
0:01:32 > 0:01:35..were here.
0:01:35 > 0:01:37I was only 18 and I accompanied Her Majesty and the Duke
0:01:37 > 0:01:40of Edinburgh in 1969.
0:01:40 > 0:01:44So I feel I have some perspective.
0:01:44 > 0:01:47Longevity, if nothing else.
0:01:47 > 0:01:51But I also understand in that time that there has been a huge
0:01:51 > 0:01:55increase in expectation, an expectation of the role
0:01:55 > 0:02:03of the Church in the community, of what you do, but I also feel that
0:02:03 > 0:02:07expectations should not exceed the ability to provide.
0:02:07 > 0:02:12Care and commitment to care, more than bricks and mortar or online
0:02:12 > 0:02:17computer programmes and apps.
0:02:17 > 0:02:21That is what you provide, that personal knowledge,
0:02:21 > 0:02:24understanding and commitment of your time.
0:02:24 > 0:02:27And there needs to be space for that.
0:02:27 > 0:02:33And the importance of the General Assembly, above all,
0:02:33 > 0:02:35it's been reasoned debate.
0:02:35 > 0:02:39And that reasoned debate is in quite short supply at the moment,
0:02:39 > 0:02:42and more and more will look to you to continue
0:02:42 > 0:02:47to do exactly that.
0:02:47 > 0:02:50Your Grace has a wonderful record of public service and,
0:02:50 > 0:02:53if I may say so, particularly here in Scotland, where your
0:02:53 > 0:02:57presence and support in a slightly larger stadium to the west
0:02:57 > 0:02:58of this building...
0:02:58 > 0:03:00LAUGHTER.
0:03:00 > 0:03:02Brings much hope to our country.
0:03:02 > 0:03:04LAUGHTER.
0:03:07 > 0:03:10The retiring moderator, Russell Barr, spoke
0:03:10 > 0:03:15about what he had learned during his year in office.
0:03:15 > 0:03:19Standing here today, I could not be more proud to be
0:03:19 > 0:03:27a minister, to be a member, to belong to the Church of Scotland.
0:03:27 > 0:03:29One council Chief Executive thanked me for the support local
0:03:29 > 0:03:35congregations in his area had given to the refugees from Syria.
0:03:35 > 0:03:37Your churches - as though they were mine -
0:03:37 > 0:03:41your churches are remarkable, he told me.
0:03:41 > 0:03:46"If there is a problem, it takes me 20 e-mails,
0:03:46 > 0:03:48"30 telephone calls and 20 weeks to resolve it.
0:03:48 > 0:03:51"When I contact one of your ministers, the latest it was fixed
0:03:51 > 0:03:56"was six o'clock that evening."
0:03:56 > 0:03:58And although, for obvious reasons, there was no publicity around it
0:03:58 > 0:04:03when we met with Syrian families, families who had come to Scotland
0:04:03 > 0:04:07from Lebanese refugee camps, they spoke with amazement
0:04:07 > 0:04:11on the ways in which they had been welcomed.
0:04:11 > 0:04:21"You Christian people have not just opened your country",
0:04:21 > 0:04:23one man told me, "You have opened your homes.
0:04:23 > 0:04:24"You've opened your hearts.
0:04:24 > 0:04:28"How can we ever thank you?
0:04:28 > 0:04:32He then turned to his theme of the year, homelessness.
0:04:32 > 0:04:39As of September last, 5,751 preschool and school-age
0:04:39 > 0:04:45children were registered in our country as homeless -
0:04:45 > 0:04:52an increase of 17% from the previous year.
0:04:52 > 0:04:54You will not see these children sleeping rough,
0:04:54 > 0:04:58although we all see the numbers of people sleeping rough on our
0:04:58 > 0:05:01streets is steadily increasing, these children and their families
0:05:01 > 0:05:05are in temporary accommodation, and the length of time
0:05:05 > 0:05:09they are spending in temporary accommodation increases
0:05:09 > 0:05:12year-on-year.
0:05:12 > 0:05:1824 weeks in 2016, 23 weeks and 18 weeks in the previous two years.
0:05:18 > 0:05:265,751 preschool and school-age children, and at what cost?
0:05:26 > 0:05:30At what cost to their education?
0:05:30 > 0:05:32At what cost to their health?
0:05:32 > 0:05:34At what cost to their sense of well-being?
0:05:34 > 0:05:39At what cost to our nation?
0:05:51 > 0:05:53The Church of Scotland has been with us since the 16th century and,
0:05:53 > 0:05:55from the Reformation on, reform itself has been
0:05:55 > 0:05:57a constant theme.
0:05:57 > 0:06:02The 21st century is continuing that tradition.
0:06:03 > 0:06:06Sometimes it seems as though the only thing we ever report
0:06:06 > 0:06:08on from the General Assembly is same-sex relationships.
0:06:08 > 0:06:12First of all, it was the specifics - the rights and wrongs
0:06:12 > 0:06:14of Aberdeen Presbytery inducting a minister in a same-sex
0:06:14 > 0:06:17relationship.
0:06:17 > 0:06:20Then it moved to the general - how should the Church deal
0:06:20 > 0:06:24with ministers in civil partnerships and accommodate those who felt
0:06:24 > 0:06:26that this was fundamentally wrong?
0:06:26 > 0:06:29And then, just as they'd resolved that, the Scottish Government
0:06:29 > 0:06:32introduced same-sex marriage.
0:06:32 > 0:06:34How should the Church deal with ministers
0:06:34 > 0:06:36in a same-sex marriage?
0:06:36 > 0:06:39And then, the big one - what should the Church do
0:06:39 > 0:06:42about marrying people in a same-sex relationship?
0:06:42 > 0:06:47The Theological Forum, a small team of expert theologians,
0:06:47 > 0:06:51has been looking into the question of what marriage is,
0:06:51 > 0:06:54and the debate about its report on Thursday will once again
0:06:54 > 0:06:56hit the headlines.
0:06:57 > 0:06:59It's been being chaired by a former moderator,
0:06:59 > 0:07:02Professor Iain Torrance.
0:07:02 > 0:07:05We caught up with him in the Scottish National Portrait Gallery,
0:07:05 > 0:07:06looking at a painting of the marriage
0:07:06 > 0:07:09of the old pretender.
0:07:14 > 0:07:17What you'll see is that it is very much the bishop marrying them.
0:07:17 > 0:07:20And that's different from the Protestant tradition.
0:07:20 > 0:07:24In the Protestant tradition, the couple marry each other
0:07:24 > 0:07:29by dint of their exchange of vows, willingly given.
0:07:30 > 0:07:34Marriage as a human relationship has changed constantly over the years,
0:07:34 > 0:07:39and what matters is the support which each partner brings
0:07:39 > 0:07:44to the other and receives in return, the faithfulness between them,
0:07:44 > 0:07:50and how they can make an impact on the society through that love
0:07:50 > 0:07:53which they have for each other, and that love then reaches out
0:07:53 > 0:07:57and they can then bestow that love, that energy
0:07:57 > 0:08:00on the people around them.
0:08:03 > 0:08:05Professor Torrance argues that marriage has been based
0:08:05 > 0:08:09on an Old Testament idea, that our role in life
0:08:09 > 0:08:14is to bring about God's kingdom by having children.
0:08:14 > 0:08:18When one reads the accounts in Genesis, you have an account
0:08:18 > 0:08:24of Adam created in the image of God and being in the image of God
0:08:24 > 0:08:29was to procreate, procreate.
0:08:29 > 0:08:33And, in that sense, that stage of our Christian journey,
0:08:33 > 0:08:39you propagated the kingdom of God by having children.
0:08:39 > 0:08:44The promise that your descendants will be as many
0:08:44 > 0:08:47as the sands of the seashore.
0:08:47 > 0:08:50That is the promise of how the kingdom comes in.
0:08:52 > 0:08:54But today, he argues, there's more to marriage
0:08:54 > 0:08:57than just having children.
0:08:57 > 0:08:59In the New Testament, we see that our main purpose
0:08:59 > 0:09:02is to bring in God's kingdom by the strength of our
0:09:02 > 0:09:04human relationships, which are based on having
0:09:04 > 0:09:07a relationship with Christ.
0:09:07 > 0:09:12As we think about it now, and we think of who Jesus is,
0:09:12 > 0:09:19Christians now increase through being joined to Jesus,
0:09:19 > 0:09:23not through having children and increasing the kingdom
0:09:23 > 0:09:25in that way.
0:09:25 > 0:09:28And so what we are seeing actually, what this report suggests,
0:09:28 > 0:09:31is that there is a shift.
0:09:31 > 0:09:38It shouldn't be seen as an argument between homosexual and heterosexual
0:09:38 > 0:09:43but as being procreative and non-procreative,
0:09:43 > 0:09:47that there is nothing wrong with a non-procreative union.
0:09:47 > 0:09:50But not all former moderators agree.
0:09:53 > 0:09:58One previous Free Church moderator is Dundee-based David Robertson.
0:09:58 > 0:10:01I think the most disturbing part of the report is where it
0:10:01 > 0:10:04seems to imply that, in the New Testament,
0:10:04 > 0:10:06there is a difference to the Old Testament,
0:10:06 > 0:10:08the Old Testament on procreation and marriage, and in
0:10:08 > 0:10:11the New Testament that's not the case.
0:10:11 > 0:10:19One, that's a completely novel interpretation which has never been
0:10:19 > 0:10:21known up until today, so I suspect it's not right.
0:10:21 > 0:10:23And the other is, it doesn't make any sense.
0:10:23 > 0:10:26What it does is it takes the Church of Scotland away
0:10:26 > 0:10:28from the Bible and also away from the Catholic Church,
0:10:28 > 0:10:31the Orthodox Church, the vast majority of the Protestant
0:10:31 > 0:10:32Church throughout the ages.
0:10:32 > 0:10:34I think it's at best disingenuous and it will end up
0:10:34 > 0:10:36being incredibly harmful.
0:10:36 > 0:10:42We have had this argument now for 25, 30 years,
0:10:42 > 0:10:46and this argument is not confined to the Church of Scotland.
0:10:46 > 0:10:52It's in all of the major churches, different forms of this argument.
0:10:52 > 0:10:57Now, we recognise that these are deeply rooted ways,
0:10:57 > 0:11:01different ways in reading scripture, and that goes back to the time
0:11:01 > 0:11:03of the Reformation.
0:11:03 > 0:11:07And those patterns of reading scripture are not going
0:11:07 > 0:11:08to vanish overnight.
0:11:08 > 0:11:10They will continue.
0:11:10 > 0:11:14And we have come to the view now that, rather than try to look
0:11:14 > 0:11:20for a knockout blow on either side, a single victory for one side
0:11:20 > 0:11:24or the other in this long argument, we actually have to find a way
0:11:24 > 0:11:29in which we have space for both sides, and we can respect both sides
0:11:29 > 0:11:37and allow each side to develop in a non-adversarial way.
0:11:37 > 0:11:39Over the past ten years, we keep hearing this
0:11:39 > 0:11:41stuff about a middle way.
0:11:41 > 0:11:43Well, I'm a bit mischievous sometimes, because I think
0:11:43 > 0:11:48of the proverb, man who walks in middle of road gets hit by bus.
0:11:48 > 0:11:51I'm not sure if that is a proverb, but it'll do.
0:11:51 > 0:11:54I think the problem is that there isn't a middle way.
0:11:54 > 0:11:56The middle way doesn't exist.
0:11:56 > 0:12:01If the Church of Scotland chooses to go for same-sex marriage,
0:12:01 > 0:12:04they can't then say there is a middle way whereby we don't go
0:12:04 > 0:12:06for same-sex marriage, so there is no middle way.
0:12:06 > 0:12:08And that's the problem.
0:12:08 > 0:12:11Try as it might, the Church of Scotland has not yet managed
0:12:11 > 0:12:16to find a way to reconcile strongly-held conflicting opinions.
0:12:16 > 0:12:19The conservatives accuse the liberals are shifting
0:12:19 > 0:12:22their views to suit the spirit of the age.
0:12:22 > 0:12:26Have people shifted their views and, if so, why?
0:12:27 > 0:12:29Sarah Lane Ritchie is a student at Edinburgh University, studying
0:12:29 > 0:12:34for a PHD in science and religion.
0:12:35 > 0:12:39She's a member of the Theological Forum, which produced the report.
0:12:39 > 0:12:42I actually come from a very conservative background in Michigan
0:12:42 > 0:12:44in the United States.
0:12:44 > 0:12:48I grew up in what I would call a fundamentalist church,
0:12:48 > 0:12:53and in that congregation, and basically within my whole social
0:12:53 > 0:12:57group there were no options for examining or understanding gay
0:12:57 > 0:13:01marriage outside of what was portrayed as being the biblical
0:13:01 > 0:13:05deal, which is one man, one woman, married for life.
0:13:05 > 0:13:08In my university days, I pursued philosophy, religion,
0:13:08 > 0:13:12theology and also biology and psychology, and I started
0:13:12 > 0:13:15learning a lot more about understanding and interpreting
0:13:15 > 0:13:17the Scripture, understanding and interpreting tradition
0:13:17 > 0:13:20and the role that tradition plays in the way that we understand
0:13:20 > 0:13:22marriage, learning about what marriage has meant throughout
0:13:22 > 0:13:25the ages, and I started gradually coming to a much more expansive
0:13:25 > 0:13:29position of what marriage could be.
0:13:29 > 0:13:33I was also very, very close with some gay and lesbian couples
0:13:33 > 0:13:37here, and they were actually in full-time ministry,
0:13:37 > 0:13:42and for me it was very impactful to see the way that their marriages
0:13:42 > 0:13:46and their lives in ministry unfolded, and that they experienced
0:13:46 > 0:13:51all the same ups and downs that any marriage would experience.
0:13:51 > 0:13:54In the Bible, we find relationships between people of the same sex
0:13:54 > 0:14:00celebrated as great friendships, as almost covenants or partnerships
0:14:00 > 0:14:04in some ways, but not with any indication that sex is involved and,
0:14:04 > 0:14:08in our sex-obsessed society, we are saying that we can't
0:14:08 > 0:14:11have deep, meaningful, admitted friendships
0:14:11 > 0:14:15and partnerships without sex.
0:14:15 > 0:14:18I would be really sorry if the Church wasn't able to say
0:14:18 > 0:14:21that there are ways of celebrating partnership, friendship,
0:14:21 > 0:14:26commitment without it having to be a sexual relationship.
0:14:26 > 0:14:31The way that I've always thought to teach and preach on the Bible
0:14:31 > 0:14:35is to take it into its context and then, from its context,
0:14:35 > 0:14:38into our own context today, to discover what it is that God
0:14:38 > 0:14:42said, then why it was said then, in the context of the peoples
0:14:42 > 0:14:46to whom it was said and in the context of the whole
0:14:46 > 0:14:51of the word of God and how that then applies to us today.
0:14:51 > 0:14:55But there's a lot in the report I have a concern about.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58I'm concerned about the way that conservatives are portrayed
0:14:58 > 0:15:05in a very simplistic manner -
0:15:05 > 0:15:09as if we just kind of open the book, see what it reads and that's it.
0:15:09 > 0:15:11With all due respect, I would say that that's not the case.
0:15:11 > 0:15:14I understand that sentiment because the report is moving
0:15:14 > 0:15:18in a more progressive direction, but if you look over the reports
0:15:18 > 0:15:20that have come out of various committees in the Church of Scotland
0:15:20 > 0:15:25over the past decades, really, you'll see that the various
0:15:25 > 0:15:29conservative positions have been examined in detail,
0:15:29 > 0:15:33different components of them, mostly focused on issues
0:15:33 > 0:15:35of biblical interpretation.
0:15:35 > 0:15:39And the first bit of our report actually does outline the different
0:15:39 > 0:15:42ways that the Bible has been interpreted on the
0:15:42 > 0:15:44issue of marriage.
0:15:44 > 0:15:46And the goal of this report is to shift the conversation
0:15:46 > 0:15:50into a slightly different direction, and to get beyond the old
0:15:50 > 0:15:53terms of the debate.
0:15:55 > 0:15:58Meanwhile, there's a feeling in the Church that far too much time
0:15:58 > 0:16:01and energy is being spent on discussing same-sex relationships
0:16:01 > 0:16:05and what's really needed is some thinking about how the Church should
0:16:05 > 0:16:08reform itself to plan for the future.
0:16:08 > 0:16:11I think there is an urgent need for reform at various levels
0:16:11 > 0:16:12within the Church of Scotland.
0:16:12 > 0:16:15These are very challenging times, and we have an ageing
0:16:15 > 0:16:18and a declining church.
0:16:18 > 0:16:20That's not news to anyone.
0:16:20 > 0:16:24But there are some particular triggers for reform at the moment,
0:16:24 > 0:16:28which include a very worrying decline in the number
0:16:28 > 0:16:33of ministers coming forward, and we are going to need to work out
0:16:33 > 0:16:36ways to respond to that and to cope with that.
0:16:53 > 0:16:55This is Grantown-on-Spey.
0:16:55 > 0:16:58It's in the Presbytery of Abernethy, which runs all the way down the A9
0:16:58 > 0:17:04to Aviemore and Newtonmore and up the hill over there to Tomintoul.
0:17:04 > 0:17:08There are 11 parishes here, grouped into six charges,
0:17:08 > 0:17:11and there's just four ministers.
0:17:15 > 0:17:18Two years ago, Gordon Strang came with his family to be
0:17:18 > 0:17:20a minister in Grantown.
0:17:20 > 0:17:23He's got three churches to look after and he is also managing
0:17:23 > 0:17:26the vacancy in Tomintoul.
0:17:28 > 0:17:32We have this enormous area to cover with not that many people,
0:17:32 > 0:17:41but we are aware that the problem of ministers and the number
0:17:41 > 0:17:44of people that we can have in these roles is going to decrease,
0:17:44 > 0:17:47but at the same time we want to keep lots of individual
0:17:47 > 0:17:49village churches open, because we are aware that each
0:17:49 > 0:17:54of these buildings are important for the places that they serve.
0:17:54 > 0:17:56They may be the last public buildings left,
0:17:56 > 0:17:58so they have an important place.
0:17:58 > 0:18:02But how do we do that at the same time with a sense
0:18:02 > 0:18:04that we want to reach out to the people of the area,
0:18:04 > 0:18:08we want to grow and tell a story to folks that haven't
0:18:08 > 0:18:10heard it before?
0:18:11 > 0:18:14In the parish of Cromdale, the pub, the school and the post
0:18:14 > 0:18:17office have all gone.
0:18:18 > 0:18:22But an active group of Christian Aid supporters, faced with the challenge
0:18:22 > 0:18:24of not enough people to do the annual door-to-door collection,
0:18:24 > 0:18:29came up with a new way of using the church.
0:18:31 > 0:18:33We had the envelopes we'd been doing for years to collect
0:18:33 > 0:18:36the Christian Aid all around the area in the parish,
0:18:36 > 0:18:39but we have a very rural, dispersed parish and it was becoming
0:18:39 > 0:18:41harder and harder to go and do the door-to-door,
0:18:41 > 0:18:45so the idea came first of all to do afternoon teas but then to take it
0:18:45 > 0:18:49on and do lunches as well and open the place up.
0:18:49 > 0:18:51And now we get lots of folk coming in from the wider area,
0:18:51 > 0:18:54folks coming past on holiday, people walking past the front door
0:18:54 > 0:18:57on the Speyside Way, so we have a whole range of folk
0:18:57 > 0:19:00that come in and we are able now to tell Christian Aid's story
0:19:00 > 0:19:03to a much bigger group of people than we might ever have
0:19:03 > 0:19:06done before and raise lots of money in the process.
0:19:17 > 0:19:19There's this space here that nobody sits in.
0:19:19 > 0:19:22Having the place used again is going to be better,
0:19:22 > 0:19:27because we can't afford to have this great big building not being used.
0:19:27 > 0:19:30Back in Grantown, Gordon and his elders are contemplating what to do
0:19:30 > 0:19:33with a much bigger building.
0:19:33 > 0:19:36It's 130 years old and it seats 450 people.
0:19:36 > 0:19:42It costs ?7,000 a year to heat, just for Sundays and funerals.
0:19:42 > 0:19:45We have this building that we've inherited from the past
0:19:45 > 0:19:48that is a wonderful witness to the town.
0:19:48 > 0:19:50It's been a place of worship for 130 years.
0:19:50 > 0:19:54But our vision is that we open it up and make it alive and active
0:19:54 > 0:19:57and vibrant once more.
0:19:57 > 0:20:00We can't afford to have a building like that for just an hour a week,
0:20:00 > 0:20:04effectively, so we hope that we can use some of the best
0:20:04 > 0:20:07of it, the acoustics, a great concert venue,
0:20:07 > 0:20:10one of the biggest venues for that sort of thing in the Strath and,
0:20:10 > 0:20:14at the same time, open it up so that we can use it for so much
0:20:14 > 0:20:17more and have a place that people really feel that they can belong
0:20:17 > 0:20:22and come to and something that's alive every day of the week.
0:20:22 > 0:20:24If we keep doing what we've always done, which is create bigger
0:20:24 > 0:20:27and bigger units for a single minister to minister to, eventually,
0:20:27 > 0:20:32we will probably be only looking at perhaps two ministers
0:20:32 > 0:20:33for the whole of this presbytery.
0:20:33 > 0:20:38If the rate in decline of ministry, full-time ordained ministry,
0:20:38 > 0:20:42if that continues, then there won't be enough of us.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45But that's a very negative way of looking at it.
0:20:45 > 0:20:48The advantage of team ministry is that you can pool different
0:20:48 > 0:20:50skills together so that, rather than having one
0:20:50 > 0:20:53person who is meant to be an expert in everything,
0:20:53 > 0:20:57you can have different skills available, people who are gifted
0:20:57 > 0:21:01in youth and family ministry, others that have a pastoral heart,
0:21:01 > 0:21:03others where preaching is their main thing,
0:21:03 > 0:21:06so different skills and they can come together and we can serve
0:21:06 > 0:21:10this sort of an area, I hope, in a better way, a way
0:21:10 > 0:21:14that we can reach out and do more, rather than forcing people in single
0:21:14 > 0:21:17minister charges that get forever bigger and are
0:21:17 > 0:21:20unworkable eventually.
0:21:21 > 0:21:23Well, there is a present shortage of ministers
0:21:23 > 0:21:26and a fairly small congregation.
0:21:26 > 0:21:28It's not always easy to find a minister at all.
0:21:28 > 0:21:30We have one or two lengthy vacancies, although not nearly
0:21:30 > 0:21:34as lengthy as some further north.
0:21:34 > 0:21:37Caithness, for example, has some lasting for several years.
0:21:37 > 0:21:39But it's not easy.
0:21:39 > 0:21:42And we are trying to grapple with this with the new presbytery
0:21:42 > 0:21:47plan, which reduces the expected number of ministers and tries
0:21:47 > 0:21:49to involve far more people.
0:21:51 > 0:21:53But what about the top end of the Church's administration,
0:21:53 > 0:21:55or the committees taking people from all over for
0:21:55 > 0:21:58meetings in Edinburgh?
0:21:58 > 0:22:01And then there is the Assembly itself.
0:22:01 > 0:22:05Do you think we are overwedded to the democracy that we have
0:22:05 > 0:22:07in Presbyterianism?
0:22:07 > 0:22:08I think the democratic character of Presbyterianism is something
0:22:08 > 0:22:11which may still be an asset for the future.
0:22:11 > 0:22:18At its best, it invites a wide range of people to come in and to be
0:22:18 > 0:22:21involved in making decisions about the future of the Church,
0:22:21 > 0:22:25and it helps them to gain skills, hopefully skills of compromise,
0:22:25 > 0:22:31of decision-making, so historically Presbyterianism, I think,
0:22:31 > 0:22:35empowered lots of people, whereas today one of the problems
0:22:35 > 0:22:38is I think that we are now top-heavy, and people
0:22:38 > 0:22:43are experiencing maintaining the system as too burdensome.
0:22:43 > 0:22:46There are only so many meetings I can share.
0:22:46 > 0:22:48There are only so many miles I can drive.
0:22:48 > 0:22:52And I was called to be a parish minister to be alongside people
0:22:52 > 0:22:55and perhaps not be doing those sorts of administrative things
0:22:55 > 0:22:57that the structure makes me do.
0:22:57 > 0:23:00We need new structures if we're going to minister to Scotland
0:23:00 > 0:23:02in the 21st century.
0:23:08 > 0:23:10And the urgent need for practical changes to how the Church continues
0:23:10 > 0:23:14to be able to serve the community, in the manner we saw praised
0:23:14 > 0:23:18by the Princess Royal, was addressed by the Council
0:23:18 > 0:23:21of Assembly, whose report or deliverance was presented
0:23:21 > 0:23:25to Assembly by its convener.
0:23:25 > 0:23:28The Council of Assembly is mandated to deal with the Kirk
0:23:28 > 0:23:30staffing and finances.
0:23:30 > 0:23:34Sally Bonnar's report's statistics were sobering.
0:23:34 > 0:23:36For instance, a 30% drop in Kirk membership over
0:23:36 > 0:23:41a recent 10-year period, during which time over 75%
0:23:41 > 0:23:45of ministers were aged over 50.
0:23:45 > 0:23:50Sally Bonnar could have been a Jeremiah, but she wasn't.
0:23:50 > 0:23:52We also see congregational statistics which show
0:23:52 > 0:23:57a steeply falling pattern, and early indications are that this
0:23:57 > 0:23:59is now having an effect on income.
0:23:59 > 0:24:02For the first time, we see a fall in congregational giving.
0:24:02 > 0:24:06This is not unexpected.
0:24:06 > 0:24:08In fact, we have often said that we are surprised that giving
0:24:08 > 0:24:10has held up so well.
0:24:10 > 0:24:14However, it seems that we have now reached a tipping point and,
0:24:14 > 0:24:18if current membership trends continue, then the decrease
0:24:18 > 0:24:23in income is likely to become a repeated feature of these reports.
0:24:23 > 0:24:26This emphasises the need for the strategic planning process
0:24:26 > 0:24:28that we are currently undertaking.
0:24:28 > 0:24:33The Church has a very complex budget and we spend our money across a wide
0:24:33 > 0:24:35range of activities.
0:24:35 > 0:24:39We cannot continue taking on new work without stopping some of
0:24:39 > 0:24:42the things we are currently doing.
0:24:42 > 0:24:46Hence we need to decide, what new things will we do?
0:24:46 > 0:24:48What needs to be kept?
0:24:48 > 0:24:51And what do we stop?
0:24:51 > 0:24:53Looking to the future as a national church,
0:24:53 > 0:24:56we will be doing less with fewer resources.
0:24:56 > 0:25:00I was very struck by the message from Archbishop Justin Welby
0:25:00 > 0:25:04at his presentation last year, when he spoke about the need
0:25:04 > 0:25:06for Christian unity.
0:25:06 > 0:25:12As Christ has said, a house divided against itself will not stand.
0:25:12 > 0:25:17So let us set aside our differences and go forward together
0:25:17 > 0:25:21in the building of Christ's kingdom.
0:25:32 > 0:25:35So, can the Kirk do more with less, do less better?
0:25:35 > 0:25:38We will be hearing a lot about change throughout this week
0:25:38 > 0:25:41and we'll report on that next Sunday.
0:25:41 > 0:25:44Before we go, let me give you a taste of a series of lectures
0:25:44 > 0:25:47given earlier this year by the Reverend Doug Gay,
0:25:47 > 0:25:51who we saw a few minutes ago, which previewed events here.
0:25:51 > 0:25:55Doug Gay does not pull his punches.
0:25:55 > 0:25:58I believe that a true spiritual renewal involves a holistic renewal
0:25:58 > 0:26:01of our Christian witness.
0:26:01 > 0:26:05Which is why we need to test the spirit.
0:26:05 > 0:26:08When people want to talk of revival or renewal,
0:26:08 > 0:26:14it is not true revival if people are anguished about micro-ethics
0:26:14 > 0:26:18but shed no tears over macro-ethics.
0:26:18 > 0:26:22If they care about temperance but not about Trident.
0:26:22 > 0:26:25It's not true revival if men lament their lust for women
0:26:25 > 0:26:28but not their sexism.
0:26:28 > 0:26:31It's not true revival if people speak in strange tongues but do not
0:26:31 > 0:26:35speak out against injustice and speak up for the poor.
0:26:35 > 0:26:39It's not true revival if people throw their fiddles on the fire,
0:26:39 > 0:26:42if they create an unbridgeable cultural gap between
0:26:42 > 0:26:45ceilidh and congregation.
0:26:45 > 0:26:49It is not a true spiritual renewal if it makes us less human,
0:26:49 > 0:26:54less alive, less loving, less merciful, less open to art
0:26:54 > 0:27:00and beauty and sensuality and life.
0:27:00 > 0:27:05I can already hear some people out there reaching for the green ink.
0:27:05 > 0:27:12Everything does depend upon the prayer, come Holy Spirit.
0:27:12 > 0:27:15I will say even less about liturgical renewal, just this,
0:27:15 > 0:27:18that, in a broad Church, I believe it will and must
0:27:18 > 0:27:20take different forms.
0:27:20 > 0:27:22For some, it will come through classical music
0:27:22 > 0:27:25and finely crafted liturgy.
0:27:25 > 0:27:28For some, it will come through Messy Church and Matt Redman.
0:27:28 > 0:27:32For some, it will come through a renewal of intense
0:27:32 > 0:27:34and passionate expository preaching.
0:27:34 > 0:27:37For some, it will come through exploring gifts of the spirit.
0:27:37 > 0:27:39For some, it will come through Rend Collective,
0:27:39 > 0:27:43through others it will come through the Iona Community.
0:27:43 > 0:27:45We are a diverse church.
0:27:45 > 0:27:50God's tastes are wider than mine.
0:27:51 > 0:27:53As a reformed Church, what all of you should share
0:27:53 > 0:27:58is a deep attentiveness to scripture, to hearing God's word.
0:27:58 > 0:28:02And what I dare to hope you also share is a more frequent celebration
0:28:02 > 0:28:05of the Lord's suffering.
0:28:05 > 0:28:09And, when that renewal comes, it will move us on from the dull
0:28:09 > 0:28:14mediocrity of middle of the road traditionalism, from joyless
0:28:14 > 0:28:18formalism, from trite pietism, from funereal communions,
0:28:18 > 0:28:22from boring sermons, from musical snobbery,
0:28:22 > 0:28:27from liturgical correctness and from liturgical sloppiness,
0:28:27 > 0:28:32from evangelical privatisation of the gospel and from liberal
0:28:32 > 0:28:36progressivist reduction of the Gospel to social ethics.
0:28:36 > 0:28:38I could go on.
0:28:38 > 0:28:39But I won't.
0:28:39 > 0:28:42That's another lecture, another book and another rant.
0:28:42 > 0:28:43Did you hear that?
0:28:43 > 0:28:45He said, when that renewal comes.
0:28:45 > 0:28:48The Kirk may be bloodied.
0:28:48 > 0:28:50It is not bowed.
0:28:50 > 0:28:54We'll see you next Sunday.
0:28:54 > 0:29:04# Oh come, and let us worship him
0:29:25 > 0:29:28A case unprecedented in British criminal history.
0:29:28 > 0:29:31The killings have stunned this family-orientated community.
0:29:31 > 0:29:33Everybody wanted to see somebody go to prison for it.
0:29:37 > 0:29:40One has to have faith that the jury came to the right view.
0:29:40 > 0:29:44You're looking at a case with 2016 eyes.