:00:10. > :00:17.Welcome to Sunday Morning Live. I am Sian Williams, with a show which
:00:18. > :00:24.gets to the heart and soul of the week's big stories. Coming up today
:00:25. > :00:28.- Britain is one of the fattest and most unfit places in the world, and
:00:29. > :00:34.we will be asking whether unhealthy food should cost more. In Iraq, on
:00:35. > :00:39.the brink of civil war, and amid fears that British jihadist fighters
:00:40. > :00:45.are returning home to threaten us, do we have a moral duty to
:00:46. > :00:49.intervene? One was a former City high-flyer, the other was once a
:00:50. > :00:50.bouncer in a nightclub, but how different is their leadership
:00:51. > :01:04.style? And we ask June Brown, is she
:01:05. > :01:25.anything like her EastEnders character Dot Branning?
:01:26. > :01:32.Before all that, come into our new studio, where we are going to meet
:01:33. > :01:43.our guests this morning. Good morning, June Brown. How are you?
:01:44. > :01:49.Tired. We will be speaking to June later. Further up the studio are the
:01:50. > :01:55.members of our panel this morning. AN Wilson, author of Jesus: A Life,
:01:56. > :02:01.who spent a year training for the priesthood before turning to
:02:02. > :02:08.writing. Author of The Good Divorce Guide, Cristina Odone. Former
:02:09. > :02:15.singer-songwriter Vicky Beeching, also a theologian and blogger.
:02:16. > :02:22.Finally, Hardeep Singh Kohli, who is on tour, mixing his two loves,
:02:23. > :02:25.cooking and stand-up. In Manchester for us this morning is Bobby
:02:26. > :02:32.Friction. How is Manchester this morning? Manchester is beautiful
:02:33. > :02:38.today. Today, we see the annual Manchester Day parade, with 50,000
:02:39. > :02:41.people on this parade today. And I will be speaking to some of the
:02:42. > :02:45.contributors, and also the people on the streets, to find out their
:02:46. > :02:49.reaction to your debate in the studio. And we want to know what you
:02:50. > :02:52.think as well. You can comment by phone, text, e-mail or on social
:02:53. > :03:10.media. Well, yet again there are plans to
:03:11. > :03:15.make our children's school meals more healthy, and this time, it is
:03:16. > :03:20.less fruit juice amongst the remedies. But with more than two
:03:21. > :03:26.thirds of British men and half of all women overweight or obese, is
:03:27. > :03:31.more radical action needed? Today, a campaign group has called on the
:03:32. > :03:34.Government to introduce a two tax to help curb obesity. Comedian and chef
:03:35. > :03:37.Hardeep Singh Kohli wants to go further and tax fast food as well.
:03:38. > :03:49.Here is his Sunday Stand. Obesity Has Become A National
:03:50. > :03:56.Obsession. We All Know Someone That Is A Little Bit Tubby, A Little Bit
:03:57. > :04:00.Porky! But hey, I think we are all being a little bit healthy when it
:04:01. > :04:11.comes to food, making informed decisions to cut back a little bit
:04:12. > :04:19.on things which are not good for us. Surely it is all just very
:04:20. > :04:25.harmless! That needs more cream! But the truth is, we are comfort eating
:04:26. > :04:34.ourselves into a future of disease, diabetes and death. Listen to this,
:04:35. > :04:39.a quarter of Britons are now obese. I will say that again - one in four
:04:40. > :04:43.British people are obese. And the numbers are swelling - like our
:04:44. > :04:51.bellies. So what has gone wrong? I will tell you - fast food. It is too
:04:52. > :04:56.cheap, it is too delicious, and it is simply killing us. What is the
:04:57. > :05:01.solution? You may not like it, but it is a fat tax. Service please!
:05:02. > :05:06.Listen, I know what you are thinking - we pay enough tax as it is, and
:05:07. > :05:11.this is the nanny state gone mad. Difficult to disagree with you, but
:05:12. > :05:14.here is the thing - the free market is not working, we need to do
:05:15. > :05:20.something to arrest our consumption as a nation of these fatty foods and
:05:21. > :05:24.sugary drinks. We need to start thinking about them as being as bad
:05:25. > :05:29.for us as booze, because they are, and cigarettes as well. If you have
:05:30. > :05:37.got an idea, I would like to hear about it. Enjoy your meal.
:05:38. > :05:42.That's the question we would like you to answer today - should there
:05:43. > :05:58.be a fat tax on sugary drinks and fast food?
:05:59. > :06:07.So, Hardeep Singh Kohli wants a tax on unhealthy food, what do you
:06:08. > :06:12.think? I think there should definitely be one. In fact, I would
:06:13. > :06:16.make it illegal to sell this stuff, which is killing people, and costing
:06:17. > :06:22.the rest of us is an enormous amount of money. How would you do that? We
:06:23. > :06:26.cannot name these ghastly companies, but we know that they fill every
:06:27. > :06:30.single high street in Britain with filth and poison, and if they were
:06:31. > :06:35.selling heroin, we would say it was illegal. But in fact, eating this
:06:36. > :06:38.kind of food day in and day out and nothing else is more dangerous than
:06:39. > :06:45.being a heroin addict. So you would take all of the fast food
:06:46. > :06:52.restaurants of the high street? I would send them all back to America.
:06:53. > :06:56.I am not talking about pizzas, I am talking about companies which I am
:06:57. > :07:01.not going to name! A moderate consumption of pizza is OK, and
:07:02. > :07:06.people should be educated. There are these rather nice pizzas now, it is
:07:07. > :07:12.just a kind of crust on the outside and lots of salad in the middle,
:07:13. > :07:18.that is absolutely fine. I think we are alluding to a cousin of somebody
:07:19. > :07:24.that owns a farm... And he is not the only one. There are other
:07:25. > :07:33.starchy gentlemen who are purveying poison. Cristina, not just attacks,
:07:34. > :07:38.but perhaps even banning fast, fatty foods? Absolutely. I think we should
:07:39. > :07:41.start with the tax. Already in Mexico, you have got a two tax and
:07:42. > :07:46.they are considering a fat tax, and it is working. Why is it working?
:07:47. > :07:50.Because of this kind of food becomes too expensive, nobody buys it. Yes,
:07:51. > :07:58.it is something that will hurt the poor more than the middle class...
:07:59. > :08:04.Why? Because they are the ones who need to keep the grocery bills down.
:08:05. > :08:12.That is not factually correct. But ultimately, the people who live off
:08:13. > :08:17.the NHS, who need the NHS, who use its services, are more likely to be
:08:18. > :08:25.the low income people. That's just... I disagree with you
:08:26. > :08:29.fundamentally. The NHS is universal, regardless of class, and it is not
:08:30. > :08:32.used more by the working class than any other class. It is -
:08:33. > :08:39.middle-class and wealthy people usually go private. Sorry... But the
:08:40. > :08:42.important thing about attacks on two and that is... Is that
:08:43. > :08:47.important thing about attacks on two statistics, or just what happens in
:08:48. > :08:52.your social set? As far as I know, all of the middle-class people I
:08:53. > :09:01.support the NHS. They support it but they do not use it. Before we get
:09:02. > :09:05.into that debate, the issue is, would such attacks be a class issue
:09:06. > :09:09.it be penalised in some groups more than others? It depends what your
:09:10. > :09:17.shopping budget is every week. of my friends would have to cut back
:09:18. > :09:19.on things and it would make a huge difference. But I would challenge
:09:20. > :09:23.your difference. But I would challenge
:09:24. > :09:25.not any evidence as yet that it is working. If you look at Denmark,
:09:26. > :09:30.where they working. If you look at Denmark,
:09:31. > :09:33.have scrapped it, because it lead to inflation in food prices, and people
:09:34. > :09:39.started driving over the border to buy food elsewhere. So Denmark has
:09:40. > :09:43.given us an example of this in practice, and it failed.
:09:44. > :09:48.given us an example of this in listen to that. Here is the point -
:09:49. > :09:51.if fast food outlets were just peopled by the working classes, they
:09:52. > :09:56.would not be on Kensington high street, they would not be on the
:09:57. > :10:06.Great Western Road, they would not be in Didsbury. Ready-made meals and
:10:07. > :10:10.so forth, and what we need to do as a nation is to do what our parents
:10:11. > :10:12.and grandparents did, which is to learn how to cook again. If how to
:10:13. > :10:18.cook, then you do not get fat, learn how to cook again. If how to
:10:19. > :10:19.because you cook nice things. It is very patronising to the poor or the
:10:20. > :10:23.lower classes, whatever you very patronising to the poor or the
:10:24. > :10:28.call them, to say that they cannot cook. Why shouldn't they, any more
:10:29. > :10:31.than middle-class people?! Incidentally, I am a middle-class
:10:32. > :10:37.person who does not belong to a private health scheme and I support
:10:38. > :10:42.the Health Service. What is the cost of our growing ever more obese,
:10:43. > :10:50.having more diabetes etc? That cost is taken up by those people who use
:10:51. > :10:53.the NHS, and unlike you guys, I do know that most of the consumers of
:10:54. > :11:01.the NHS are likely to be of lower income. That is just not true. And I
:11:02. > :11:05.just interrupted - if you had a tax which penalised some groups more
:11:06. > :11:09.than others, you could redistribute it, you could tax those foods which
:11:10. > :11:13.are not good for you and use the money, rather than giving it to the
:11:14. > :11:18.Government, to try to subsidise the more healthy foods, might that be an
:11:19. > :11:22.option? And also then, food production has to change. If people
:11:23. > :11:26.want to avoid the tax, then they will have to improve the quality of
:11:27. > :11:34.their ingredients. But there are more practical ways of example,
:11:35. > :11:37.another store has recently taken a vote on moving confectionery away
:11:38. > :11:43.from the checkouts, and 65% of people said, yes, these, we want you
:11:44. > :11:49.to do this to help us. It is about smart choices. That is an important
:11:50. > :11:52.point just when you go to a supermarket, the sweets and
:11:53. > :11:59.chocolates and crisps are at toddler level. They are at the eyelevel of a
:12:00. > :12:02.six-year-old. So, it is not just about a tax, it is about we
:12:03. > :12:10.educating us in the way we shop, and supermarkets have to get involved.
:12:11. > :12:15.But may I suggest, the reason we are talking about a tax, and in Mexico,
:12:16. > :12:19.it is working, is because, what they are saying is, this is toxic. When
:12:20. > :12:25.we talk about educating people, whether it is in cooking or in
:12:26. > :12:28.banning fat, we are having to educate people. And nothing sends
:12:29. > :12:33.out a message as quickly as a government saying, this has to be
:12:34. > :12:39.taxed because it is bad for you. People may well just get pushed away
:12:40. > :12:43.to other bad items, like if you tax two, they might get pushed towards
:12:44. > :12:49.buying fat. Hardeep Singh Kohli, you said, we know that fast food is
:12:50. > :12:54.cheap and it is delicious. It might be killing us, but you know, that is
:12:55. > :13:00.quite begin scented to out and buy it, that it tastes really nice!
:13:01. > :13:03.Well, some of it does, but we need to have a holistic approach to this.
:13:04. > :13:10.We need to offer alternatives to people. I believe we should license
:13:11. > :13:16.fast food places. We license pubs and sex shops and gambling places.
:13:17. > :13:23.We license lots of things. Let's license fast food. There is a scheme
:13:24. > :13:29.in New York with subsidised greengrocers - how many people see
:13:30. > :13:34.greengrocers now? This demonisation of the working class, they just want
:13:35. > :13:38.to eat fast food, is not true. And it is an emotional thing as well,
:13:39. > :13:42.isn't it? Doesn't a lot of overeating come from what is within
:13:43. > :13:46.yourself, rather than anything else? In Britain, we look at Nigella
:13:47. > :13:53.Lawson, and we think, a beautiful Earth mother. You may! But
:13:54. > :13:57.unfortunately the Americans are not allowed to look at her due to visa
:13:58. > :14:03.restrictions, which I believe have now been lifted! It is a holistic
:14:04. > :14:13.approach which is needed. Shepherd 's pie is good comfort food, as are
:14:14. > :14:17.other staples. I want to head out to Manchester and join Bobby Friction,
:14:18. > :14:24.who is getting the thoughts of some people. What are they saying? We are
:14:25. > :14:29.going to go over to these debates, but before we do that, I want to
:14:30. > :14:31.tell you that the Manchester Day parade, and everything which will be
:14:32. > :14:36.happening, is starting to wind parade, and everything which will be
:14:37. > :14:41.action. There are lots of floats appearing out of nowhere, able
:14:42. > :14:45.dancing in the streets. All of that will kick off in about an hour or
:14:46. > :14:52.two. First, I am going to come over to Michael, who is a fourth-year
:14:53. > :15:04.medical student. Talking about a fat tax, you have actually done study on
:15:05. > :15:09.obesity in children? The results of my study mean you have to target
:15:10. > :15:13.lots of different aspects of children's lives. Narrow
:15:14. > :15:18.interventions will not work in getting overweight children to eat
:15:19. > :15:24.more fruit and vegetables. You don't believe in a fat tax? By itself it
:15:25. > :15:30.won't work. To get the fat tax to work, it there needs to be other
:15:31. > :15:36.aspects of it. The money raised from the fat tax needs to sub dice
:15:37. > :15:39.healthier foods. If the healthier foods are more expensive, people
:15:40. > :15:43.will keep buying those foods. The fat tax will not work by itself. You
:15:44. > :15:49.need to used casing along with the fat tax. Without that, people will
:15:50. > :15:56.not understand why the fat tax is in place. A more holistic approach. You
:15:57. > :15:59.work with a community group where you teach disadvantaged youngsters
:16:00. > :16:04.to cook properly. Do you believe in the fat tax? Not really, no. We see
:16:05. > :16:08.young people from disadvantaged backgrounds, a lot of families maybe
:16:09. > :16:12.have lost their skills in how to cook. They are going to takeaways,
:16:13. > :16:17.that's their main source of food. If you put a fat tax on it, it will be
:16:18. > :16:22.more difficult for people to eat on a low-budget. We take the kids into
:16:23. > :16:27.the youth club. We teach them how to cook. Teach the difference between
:16:28. > :16:32.healthy and unhealthy food. So they have the skills to make the choices
:16:33. > :16:34.and cook their own food. Two reactions from people who know what
:16:35. > :16:40.they are doing and what they are talking about. I want to go to these
:16:41. > :16:47.dancers. Keeping fit, dancing, all that brings in the funnelment too.
:16:48. > :16:50.Ruth, you're a Brazilian dancer. You'll be performing, parading
:16:51. > :16:54.through the streets. Do you believe in a fat tax? I don't. I believe
:16:55. > :17:00.more in education. Bringing children up knowing from an early age that
:17:01. > :17:05.what's good food and what is not good food. It is just punishing
:17:06. > :17:10.people when it's not necessary. Make good food available and affordable.
:17:11. > :17:17.That's the better way to do things. What about dancing? That's a
:17:18. > :17:21.great... I think doing something physical from an early age,
:17:22. > :17:28.encouraging dance and PE in schools, that's the way. Combining it with
:17:29. > :17:32.the food. A two-way thing. Back to you Sianment
:17:33. > :17:35.Thanks to the dancers there. Really interesting points raised there
:17:36. > :17:40.which I want to pick up with you, Andrew. You are punishing people by
:17:41. > :17:46.taxing them and narrow interventions won't work. I would utterly agree.
:17:47. > :17:52.It has to be a holistic approach. It should not just be a tax. But people
:17:53. > :17:57.who abuse their bodies are costing the rest of us a great deal of
:17:58. > :18:03.money. They tend to develop diabetes, obesity. They are going to
:18:04. > :18:10.go into hospital. And I am going to have to pay the bill. I abuse my
:18:11. > :18:18.body, I smoke cigarettes and drink. Then they need compassion. We need
:18:19. > :18:23.to care for these people. Look at the emotional, psychological issue
:18:24. > :18:27.about why they are eating this food. Everybody needs compassion. The
:18:28. > :18:31.economic reality is the Health Service, most people do use it
:18:32. > :18:36.regardless of their income bracket, it is paid for by the taxpayer. If
:18:37. > :18:40.it is full of people who don't need to be there because they've been
:18:41. > :18:46.eating much all their lives, it is fair to say, hang on, I don't want
:18:47. > :18:50.you to be eating buckets of fried chicken when you could be eating a
:18:51. > :18:57.nice vegetable stew. Surely there's a deeper issue than slapping on tax.
:18:58. > :19:03.Let's deal with the emotional and psychological issues which mean
:19:04. > :19:08.people overeat. I'd like to make these outlets illegal, then people
:19:09. > :19:12.would have to major vegetable stews. It sounds like it is turning into a
:19:13. > :19:17.bit of a them and us debate. Is that fair? People who are moderately
:19:18. > :19:23.overweight, that does not matter what income bracket they come from,
:19:24. > :19:29.it can take two or three years off their life being moderately
:19:30. > :19:36.overweight. We are not talking about people being obese. When I said that
:19:37. > :19:42.lots of middle class people do not take advantage of the NHS I didn't
:19:43. > :19:48.mean none of them do. Some don't. What I have discussed with my NHS GP
:19:49. > :19:53.is the effect on the NHS of having obesity. He said to me that we are
:19:54. > :19:58.now having to make custom-made had the beds. Custom-made ambulance
:19:59. > :20:03.stretchers. Custom-made machinery because they can't take the obesity.
:20:04. > :20:08.Yes, a little fat and plumpness can cut down somebody's life span. But
:20:09. > :20:14.what we are talking about, Andrew, I agree with you, is the cost to the
:20:15. > :20:20.NHS. It is tremendous. It is about ?5 million a year. But slapping a
:20:21. > :20:25.tax on... Actually ?55 million is the latest figure I saw. But in
:20:26. > :20:33.terms of changing the beds, those kind of things Yes, that's about ?5
:20:34. > :20:42.million. In hospitals where doctors and nurses are busy, having to chop
:20:43. > :20:48.off limbs caused by diabetes, ?50 million or more. Let's talk to
:20:49. > :20:52.Hardeep? We need to wake people up to what's going on. A tax isn't
:20:53. > :20:56.nearly enough. I believe in licensing, education. I'm in the
:20:57. > :21:01.process of setting up a free school in East London to teach youngsters
:21:02. > :21:08.how to cook. Why did we ever get rid of cooking. If I couldn't cook I
:21:09. > :21:11.would be perennially single. It helps romantically as well as
:21:12. > :21:15.physically. The question this morning, should there be a fat tax
:21:16. > :21:22.on sugary drinks and fast food? Remember, you can only vote once. If
:21:23. > :21:32.you think there should be, text the word vote followed by yes. Or vote,
:21:33. > :21:40.no. You have about 20 minutes before the vote closes.
:21:41. > :21:54.Still to come: Greeting the longest day at Stonehenge.
:21:55. > :22:01.Iraq is in chaos. Fighters of the extremists Isis who want to set up
:22:02. > :22:06.their own Islamic state in the region are advancing towards the
:22:07. > :22:10.capital Baghdad. It is thought some 400 British Jihadists have joined
:22:11. > :22:15.their battle. Yesterday, an aspiring medical student from Cardiff was
:22:16. > :22:19.identified as being at the centre of a campaign to recruit more
:22:20. > :22:28.disaffected Muslims here, a campaign which the Prime Minister fears
:22:29. > :22:31.threatens the safety of all of us. Sunni Muslim extremists now control
:22:32. > :22:34.large parts of Iraq. They want to overthrow the Government in Baghdad
:22:35. > :22:41.and create a new independent state in the region. Their military
:22:42. > :22:45.onslaught comes with a barrage of promotional material on the
:22:46. > :22:48.internet, including a video which appears to show six fighters,
:22:49. > :22:53.including a British Muslim, appealing for others to join them.
:22:54. > :22:58.You who believe answer the call of Allah and his Messenger when he
:22:59. > :23:03.calls you to what gives you life. What gives you life is Jihad. In
:23:04. > :23:08.David Cameron is worried about the threat to our security from British
:23:09. > :23:12.Jihadists coming back here. The number of foreign fighters in that
:23:13. > :23:16.area, the number of foreign fighters, including those from the
:23:17. > :23:23.UK, who could try to return to the UK, this is a real threat to our
:23:24. > :23:27.country. President Obama is also concerned and has sent 300 US
:23:28. > :23:32.military advisers to Iraq and is considering air strikes too.
:23:33. > :23:37.Military intervention has been ruled out by Britain. But some argue that
:23:38. > :23:43.given the UK's role in the invasion of Iraq in 2003, we have a moral
:23:44. > :23:50.duty to help sort out of the current crisis before it gets any worse.
:23:51. > :23:59.Joining our panel this morning, Davis Lewin from the think-tank, the
:24:00. > :24:05.Henry Jackson Society. And Usama Hasan who works with the Quilliam
:24:06. > :24:11.Foundation which is an anti-extremist organise ace.
:24:12. > :24:15.Cristina, we are told by the UN civilian deaths in Iraq by the end
:24:16. > :24:18.of this year will be more than double what they were last year.
:24:19. > :24:25.Does Britain have a moral duty to go in and sort it out? I feel we have a
:24:26. > :24:30.moral duty. I feel deep remorse about the 2003 war. I think we are
:24:31. > :24:38.one of the guilty parties. After us, we left a vacuum that has been
:24:39. > :24:44.filled by horrible factionalism. But, it is terrifying the thought of
:24:45. > :24:49.intervening again. We've gotten every intervention so wrong,
:24:50. > :24:56.including the last one. I just, although I feel guilty, I also am
:24:57. > :25:02.dreading the thought of following in the Obama footsteps and sending in
:25:03. > :25:05.300 or 500 or any amount of troops again.
:25:06. > :25:09.Davis Lewin, do you think intervention more than a decade ago
:25:10. > :25:15.is responsible for what we are seeing now? We are not guilty about
:25:16. > :25:19.what's happening there. These people are not butchering each other
:25:20. > :25:23.because we had a plan that was lacking in certain aspects. It is
:25:24. > :25:28.totally wrong to premis this in this way. The moral duty is about
:25:29. > :25:34.protecting the citizens of the UK. What is happening over there with
:25:35. > :25:41.Isis, you have the linkage of an Al-Qaeda-type army. An offshoot that
:25:42. > :25:45.got kicked out because of the insanity it promotes. It is linking
:25:46. > :25:49.up the the state-based he willments of military power. We have to
:25:50. > :25:55.discuss what form that intervention takes. To say we are not an
:25:56. > :26:02.interested party and not guilty and should stay out is foolish as far as
:26:03. > :26:06.our security is concerned. We know the British and American Government
:26:07. > :26:13.have been thinking about air strikes. But as far as boots on the
:26:14. > :26:17.ground go, that's highly unlikely. What do you think should happen?
:26:18. > :26:21.Unfortunately, they are the reality of politics. We saw in the UK what
:26:22. > :26:27.happened to the Prime Minister over the Syria vote. The wishes of the
:26:28. > :26:33.people have to be respected. The people do not generally favour these
:26:34. > :26:40.inter ventions, the President Obama says he can't butt boots on the
:26:41. > :26:47.ground. There are a lot of different tools in his arsenal that he can
:26:48. > :26:52.deploy effectively. We should be in support of that working hand in
:26:53. > :26:55.glove with our American allies across the point who face the same
:26:56. > :26:59.threats as we do in this. Andrew, do you think Britain has a
:27:00. > :27:05.moral duty to do something in Iraq and what would that something be in
:27:06. > :27:10.your book? I share Cristina's idea that we in the West, above all the
:27:11. > :27:14.Americans but also the British, are partially responsible for this
:27:15. > :27:18.terrible mayhem. But the reason that public opinion was against
:27:19. > :27:24.intervention in the Syrian civil war and is broadly against intervention
:27:25. > :27:30.in Iraq is every single western intervention in the middle east in
:27:31. > :27:37.the last 50 or 100 years has been utterly disastrous. Therefore,
:27:38. > :27:40.painful as it is, I would favour absolute non-intervention and I'm
:27:41. > :27:45.afraid I'd just let them get on with it. Just leave everything alone and
:27:46. > :27:51.not get involved at all? Have nothing to do with it. Usama, what's
:27:52. > :27:56.your view? We are partly responsible for this mess. We should not have
:27:57. > :28:02.gone into Iraq. But once we'd left we should help with national
:28:03. > :28:09.conciliation. Brutal rule with Saddam and ruling by the Sunnies,ed
:28:10. > :28:16.Sunnis were sidelined and they are now allying with Isis. They don't
:28:17. > :28:21.agree on an ideological ground but they are fed up with being
:28:22. > :28:26.suppressed. We have to promote a proper representative Government in
:28:27. > :28:31.Iraq. You've three people here saying we are partially responsible
:28:32. > :28:36.for this. We are not. There is a sectarian movement in the region,
:28:37. > :28:40.led by the Iraqi Prime Minister, he, after we left, had the choice of
:28:41. > :28:47.building an inclusive state which could have been a democracy. He
:28:48. > :28:52.chose to build a sectarian state. It is a Shia Sunni conflict, it is
:28:53. > :28:57.about ideology rather than any form of grievance? Usama, you went to
:28:58. > :29:04.fight on foreign soil. Why did you do that? Was it based on a grievance
:29:05. > :29:11.or what it based on ideology? It was a mixture of ideology. A narrow
:29:12. > :29:14.extremist Islamic idea then to fight communism. It was experiencing
:29:15. > :29:18.racism in this country in the eighties. There was a lot more of it
:29:19. > :29:24.around. The rise of anti-Muslim sentiment in Britain is feeding into
:29:25. > :29:29.these deluded young men going off to join Isis. We are partly responsible
:29:30. > :29:34.for this mess. We went into Iraq and when we left we did not have a
:29:35. > :29:40.proper plan and did not help promote a national unity Government. We've
:29:41. > :29:44.heard a few senior police officers suggesting, and David Cameron
:29:45. > :29:48.earlier, there's a real threat to British security here with Jihadists
:29:49. > :29:53.from this country going overseas to fight and some of them may already
:29:54. > :29:59.have come back and be posing a threat to our security? That's true.
:30:00. > :30:05.Past experience shows from the hundreds and thousands who went to
:30:06. > :30:13.Afghanistan and Bosnia, and after 9/11. Cash her, Somalia, Syria, a
:30:14. > :30:15.small proportion have got involved in attacks when they came back.
:30:16. > :30:17.small proportion have got involved in attacks when they came But we're
:30:18. > :30:22.talking about hundreds. At least that's what a senior anti-terrorist
:30:23. > :30:27.officer said today. Hundreds of Jihadists. Maybe more went to Bosnia
:30:28. > :30:31.in the nineties. There was an academic study done which estimated
:30:32. > :30:35.about 10% of returning foreign fighters get involved in terrorist
:30:36. > :30:42.actions. Thankfully that's a small percentage but a very serious
:30:43. > :30:47.threat. Is that even more of a danger with intervention, Cristina?
:30:48. > :30:57.You are fanning the flames and you have more Jihadists from this
:30:58. > :31:05.country going out to fight? I think one of the lessons from the
:31:06. > :31:11.2003 war is that we have tried to impart a Western feeling in Iraq,
:31:12. > :31:16.and they see us as easy bodies, as medlars, and as infidels. One of the
:31:17. > :31:19.difficulties for us to accept is that if this goes on, these are
:31:20. > :31:24.porous wars between countries these days, and the man who is a jihadist
:31:25. > :31:33.born in Cardiff and goes to Iraq can easily come back with a different
:31:34. > :31:38.identity... This is not some mystical thing in that way, it is
:31:39. > :31:44.much more simple than that. There are 40 people, according to the
:31:45. > :31:48.academic research, that have proven themselves in the organisation they
:31:49. > :31:52.are in to have been capable of doing the kind of thing which happened to
:31:53. > :31:55.the World Trade Center. But this is happening within a context, which we
:31:56. > :31:59.have seen in recent history in relation to the schools debate.
:32:00. > :32:04.People have come out and said, this is against Muslims or whatever else.
:32:05. > :32:07.At the same time, the parents of the kids who are dying in Syria are
:32:08. > :32:12.saying, we did not know anything about that. So, when the police
:32:13. > :32:16.organises a programme to help these parents, who are the agents of
:32:17. > :32:18.change in their community, to stop their kids from doing that, other
:32:19. > :32:27.self appointed spokespeople appear in the media to say something else.
:32:28. > :32:31.This is about our culture and the way that we integrate and the way
:32:32. > :32:37.that we set the terms of the debate. But we cannot be seen as
:32:38. > :32:42.interventionist... These are people that want to kill us. If you live
:32:43. > :32:47.here, there is no debate about this. Andrew, there is no debate about
:32:48. > :32:55.it? I find it paradoxical to say that we have a right to intervene in
:32:56. > :33:05.somebody else's domestic war, we, the West, that we have... Let him
:33:06. > :33:09.finish. You are saying that we have a duty to interfere in the affairs
:33:10. > :33:13.of Iraq, but if I am a young man in Cardiff or wherever who cares
:33:14. > :33:18.passionately about this thing, and is prepared to die for it, as people
:33:19. > :33:25.were in the 1930s prepared to go to Spain... It is not comparable at
:33:26. > :33:31.all. There were young men in England who were prepared to die for General
:33:32. > :33:35.Franco. If General Franco's ideas had been adopted, it would have been
:33:36. > :33:39.a disaster. Similarly, many young men were prepared to die for the
:33:40. > :33:45.Communists. Why should young men from Cardiff not go and fight? How
:33:46. > :33:50.do you stop them going out to fight? By exposing the fact that
:33:51. > :33:55.they are joining a fascist group. ISIS also wants a fascist,
:33:56. > :34:02.totalitarian state with beheadings and massacres. As they did in Spain.
:34:03. > :34:15.Why shouldn't they? Because it is not their fight. I cannot believe
:34:16. > :34:19.what I am hearing. How do you stop young British Muslims going over to
:34:20. > :34:24.fight in Syria and Iraq? The problem with these men is, they do not feel
:34:25. > :34:32.they belong to Britain, they believe their allegiance is to some utopian
:34:33. > :34:38.idea, some Muslim nation which does not really exist any more, because
:34:39. > :34:41.we have nationalistic ideas. Communists in the 1930s were
:34:42. > :34:46.fighting... Yes, there were similarities like that, and this
:34:47. > :34:52.should be exposed as a fascist ideology. Thank you very much all of
:34:53. > :34:57.you. And we would like your views, so please get in touch with us on
:34:58. > :35:01.that debate. Coming up - the Pope met the Archbishop of Canterbury
:35:02. > :35:10.this week, we compared the leadership style of both men.
:35:11. > :35:16.First, something new for Sunday Morning Live. We are going to be
:35:17. > :35:21.delving into the values and beliefs of some well-known faces. My guest
:35:22. > :35:29.this hello. I enjoying yourself this morning? No, because I cannot hear.
:35:30. > :35:34.I cannot see very well, either. The camera is practically knocked me
:35:35. > :35:42.over. I have been trying to follow what is going on. That is why Meijer
:35:43. > :35:48.has grown, you know. Just teething problems, we will sort it out by
:35:49. > :35:56.next week! Actually, you can come and join us later on. I am low on
:35:57. > :36:01.the list here. June Brown, one of Britain's favourite soap stars. That
:36:02. > :36:07.is what I mean! But am I an intelligent woman, I want to know?!
:36:08. > :36:11.You are, and you will be on that so friendly to on. As I could not hear
:36:12. > :36:15.what they were saying, I will probably repeat them all. I will
:36:16. > :36:22.tell you what, we will have a new debate and we will include you in
:36:23. > :36:28.it. Just to remind you, if you are not an EastEnders watcher... That
:36:29. > :36:35.was 27 years ago, and I thought I looked old! My cheeks are still up
:36:36. > :36:41.on the top of my face, my nose is smaller. I am suddenly longing to be
:36:42. > :36:47.that woman again! But in ten years' time, you will look back at how you
:36:48. > :36:52.are now and think, I was gorgeous! We are going to see a little bit of
:36:53. > :36:58.your character, Dot, a chain-smoking, Bible quoting legend
:36:59. > :37:03.from EastEnders of the legend of the launderette - have a look. Dot
:37:04. > :37:07.Branning has been at the very heart of Albert Square for almost 30
:37:08. > :37:15.years, and from her first appearance on the show in 1985, we were left in
:37:16. > :37:23.no doubt of her pious nature. Language! Thou shalt not blaspheme.
:37:24. > :37:26.She is one of the few religious characters in soap operas, with her
:37:27. > :37:32.strong Christian values being shared by the woman who plays her. June
:37:33. > :37:34.Brown's performance as the manageress of the launderette has
:37:35. > :37:44.brought much-needed humour to the BBC soap as well. I am ringing up
:37:45. > :37:51.about the job advertisement. Mrs Dorothy Cotton. I am currently the
:37:52. > :37:59.manager of a launderette and I am a neighbourhood watch coordinator...
:38:00. > :38:04.Dot has had a tough life, struggling to cope with the problems of her son
:38:05. > :38:11.and other problems. In 2008, a special episode saw Dot record a
:38:12. > :38:18.message. I know what they are thinking of me. Old battle-axe, why
:38:19. > :38:25.doesn't she cheer up a bit? But they don't understand! I can't be like
:38:26. > :38:30.Ethel, I am frightened to show my emotions, I am frightened of letting
:38:31. > :38:37.anyone in, because every time I do, lose them! The deeply moving solo
:38:38. > :38:43.performance earned June Brown a BAFTA nomination and secured her
:38:44. > :38:46.place in soap history. She is saying to me, yes, but I didn't get it! You
:38:47. > :38:54.should have done, that was an extraordinary performance. If only!
:38:55. > :38:59.How close do you think you are too Dot, because you are a deeply
:39:00. > :39:02.religious woman? Well, this is something I have done which I do not
:39:03. > :39:06.approve of, because I think you should play characters as they are
:39:07. > :39:10.written, but they do not always write the prey is and the behaviour
:39:11. > :39:15.of a Christian into it, and I am afraid that I have changed it. --
:39:16. > :39:21.the prey is. I am afraid that her faith, my faith, has changed her.
:39:22. > :39:34.She was a kindergarten Christian. I mean, someone who thinks of God as
:39:35. > :39:38.an old man in the sky. It is difficult to explain, but somebody
:39:39. > :39:42.who has no real knowledge, they have never really bothered to try. I have
:39:43. > :39:46.probably never read anything, they have just got an idea that it is
:39:47. > :39:52.like this, it is pie in the sky when you die, and it isn't. I do have a
:39:53. > :39:56.very strong faith, yes. So you look at the script and you think, this
:39:57. > :40:01.has not been written by somebody who understands? I always know it if it
:40:02. > :40:09.has been written by somebody who is an agnostic or an atheist. You can
:40:10. > :40:12.tell. Cannot make a choice unless you discover, unless you read about
:40:13. > :40:22.it, unless you find out, unless you are open-minded. All this business
:40:23. > :40:25.of war, I thought this was religion and ethics, I am on the wrong
:40:26. > :40:30.programme! I was about to say how religion is entwined in ethics, you
:40:31. > :40:37.cannot take one from the other. I was about to quote Edmund Burke, you
:40:38. > :40:42.know! Go-ahead! Well, he said, the problem with war is that it consumes
:40:43. > :40:46.the very virtues that you are fighting an injustice, decency and
:40:47. > :40:51.humanity. In other words, it you cannot help it. If you are a man
:40:52. > :40:55.working in the fields, looking after your crops and your animals, and you
:40:56. > :41:00.are thrown into the trenches, and you are killing people, and there
:41:01. > :41:06.are very few of us who want to kill somebody. There are people. There is
:41:07. > :41:14.anger that comes up and rejection, but they are very few, compared to
:41:15. > :41:19.the majority. If you had an accident in a car and you killed somebody,
:41:20. > :41:25.you would be horrified. It sounds like
:41:26. > :41:27.you would be horrified. It sounds thinking - has it always been so, or
:41:28. > :41:30.has your faith ever been questioned? I
:41:31. > :41:36.has your faith ever been books, and some of them have made me
:41:37. > :41:42.quite worried about it, but I think it is a force, it is nothing to do
:41:43. > :41:47.with the person. I think we use Jesus as an intermediary, but God is
:41:48. > :41:53.not a person, it is a force, a force of love, a force of energy, and it
:41:54. > :42:06.heals. I cannot put that in Dot. I cannot go around saying that. But
:42:07. > :42:11.you can! Sorry! What about with Phil Mitchell? I know, I said to him, how
:42:12. > :42:16.on earth are we going to do this in no I said, I think I will have to
:42:17. > :42:26.change it. He said, no, just try it as it is. I said, no, thank you. And
:42:27. > :42:30.I didn't. Praying should be about positives. What you look for, you
:42:31. > :42:39.will get. We are too negative in prey usually. It is a statement of
:42:40. > :42:44.faith. If I said to you, here is a letter for Yukon will you post it
:42:45. > :42:50.for me? You say yes, and I say thank you. I was reading something by
:42:51. > :42:55.Daniel Sturridge, and when he did his goal, he said, I love you,
:42:56. > :43:01.Jesus, I thank you for everything! And that is the true way to pray.
:43:02. > :43:07.How do you think that is interpreted by people, open displays of
:43:08. > :43:10.Christianity? Our cross that we have to bear now is that we thought
:43:11. > :43:18.foolish and stupid and unintelligent. So, you will fight to
:43:19. > :43:22.keep Dot as she is? Yes, because I am 87, and now say what I think. All
:43:23. > :43:27.those years when I did not say what I thought, and now I say what I
:43:28. > :43:32.think. If Dot were ever to leave the soap, how should her exit be
:43:33. > :43:37.handled, do you think? I do not know if they will do it, I will probably
:43:38. > :43:46.die first, darling. I want to be buried at sea. I do not want people
:43:47. > :43:52.talking about me. I want a plain, ordinary service, and just to be
:43:53. > :43:56.dropped at sea. There are two places you can do it in England - off the
:43:57. > :44:03.Isle of Wight or New Haven. You haven is closest to me. I do not
:44:04. > :44:07.think you will mind at that stage! I do not mind dying. And I want to be
:44:08. > :44:11.in a white shroud, I do not want to be dressed up looking like I am
:44:12. > :44:17.going out to dinner. And I do not want any make-up on. We are going to
:44:18. > :44:20.have a debate about the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury in a little
:44:21. > :44:31.while. Would you come onto the sofa? Now? In a little while. I once
:44:32. > :44:37.saw a photograph, and it was in Canterbury Cathedral, and it was
:44:38. > :44:45.where Thomas a Becket was killed, and honest to God - I should not say
:44:46. > :44:48.that on a Sunday, should I? - and I actually saw a halo around the
:44:49. > :44:54.Pope's head, I really did. It was there. The Archbishop was a lovely
:44:55. > :44:59.man, I cannot remember who he was, at the time, and he did not have
:45:00. > :45:01.one. Join us later on, when we talk about the Pope and the Archbishop of
:45:02. > :45:22.Canterbury. text as your vote will not count.
:45:23. > :45:26.Put my vote in now. Stop selling the sugary drink, stop selling the
:45:27. > :45:32.rubbish you sell. Ask me and I'll tell you how to stay thin. Don't mix
:45:33. > :45:38.carbohydrates with protein. Pasta, flour and water, bread, no. You will
:45:39. > :45:42.be lovely like me. Look at her lovely thin figure. Doesn't she look
:45:43. > :45:48.beautiful this morning. We'll let you know what you've been saying at
:45:49. > :45:53.the end of the show. At dawn yesterday, thousands of people
:45:54. > :45:57.gathered at Stonehenge to mark the summer solstice. Among the crowds
:45:58. > :46:03.are those who are there just for fun. There are others for whom
:46:04. > :46:08.Stonehenge has a mist cal experience. Our reporter was with
:46:09. > :46:16.them as they waited for the sun to rise. Thousands gathered for the sun
:46:17. > :46:23.to rise waiting to see in the longest day of the year. It is.40
:46:24. > :46:31.am. The crowds have gathered all night. The cheering, drums beating.
:46:32. > :46:37.There are people here from every walk of life. Daylight comes early.
:46:38. > :46:42.The moment everyone is waiting for is the sun breaking over the
:46:43. > :46:47.horizon. The what are you doing here? I'm one of the Stonehenge
:46:48. > :46:54.druids. It is a celebration of turning of the seasons. Being here
:46:55. > :46:59.is doing something akin to what our ancestors did 5,000 years ago and
:47:00. > :47:04.hopefully what our successors will do in 5,000 years time. Reatuning
:47:05. > :47:09.ourselves. Summer Solities is one of the most important days in the pagan
:47:10. > :47:14.calendar. As part of the ritual to welcome the sun, she invite everyone
:47:15. > :47:20.to form a circle and give thanks to the elements. Spirit of the south,
:47:21. > :47:29.element of fire, hail and welcome. ALL: Hail and welcome.
:47:30. > :47:49.Not long now. It's just on the horizon. Merry solstice everybody.
:47:50. > :47:55.I've been many, many years. I feel a great calling to come to the stones.
:47:56. > :47:59.Our ancestors brought them to remember that without the sun, none
:48:00. > :48:07.of us would be here. Is there still a place for circles like this for
:48:08. > :48:11.druids and paganism in 2014? We need communities to come together, be
:48:12. > :48:19.more informal and more direct. People need to act in relation to
:48:20. > :48:23.each other, be spontaneous, react to spirituality. As the sun continues
:48:24. > :48:27.its journey up the sky, the party atmosphere continued. I had a chance
:48:28. > :48:35.to reflect on an eye-opening experience. Usually when I think of
:48:36. > :48:39.a religious ceremony, or a spiritual ceremony, it is all scripted from
:48:40. > :48:46.start to finish. This was absolutely the rhythm of what was happening.
:48:47. > :48:49.Efforts aid' love you to come for a druids wedding, we jump over
:48:50. > :48:54.broomsticks and things. It's great fun. I'll be back for that. Easy
:48:55. > :48:58.does it, I think! We look forward to her jumping over
:48:59. > :49:02.broomsticks! The Archbishop of Canterbury has
:49:03. > :49:06.been in roam meeting the Pope. They have their feet firmly under the
:49:07. > :49:10.table since taking up their roles last year. They've very different
:49:11. > :49:15.styles and approaches to the challenges they face.
:49:16. > :49:22.They were enthrowned within a week of each other last year. This week,
:49:23. > :49:26.Pope Francis and Archbishop we will bitook a step towards building
:49:27. > :49:31.closer relations between the Anglican and Catholic Churches. Both
:49:32. > :49:35.leaders seek press attention and comment on a variety of issues from
:49:36. > :49:41.poverty to big business. Justin we will biwas greeted as a man of God
:49:42. > :49:46.when he became Archbishop... The Pope even gave a press conference to
:49:47. > :49:53.a media on a plane journey answering questions about reform and equality.
:49:54. > :49:58.This week, Pope Francis also announced he's planning to get rid
:49:59. > :50:03.of the famous Popemobile to bring him closer to the people. This Pope
:50:04. > :50:09.shows the church and the people are the same thing. We are all the same.
:50:10. > :50:14.In the 15 months since they took up their roles both men advocated
:50:15. > :50:19.changes in their churches. Men of change they may be but sometimes
:50:20. > :50:22.that change can come too quickly. This week, the Archbishop of
:50:23. > :50:26.Canterbury warned the rise of Twitter and other social media sites
:50:27. > :50:35.is threatening to kill off quiet reflection. However, both remain
:50:36. > :50:42.avid Tweeters. The Archbishop has 58,000 followers, the Pope 1.45
:50:43. > :50:45.million. But both are dwarfed by the Dalai Lama, he has 9 million
:50:46. > :50:51.followers. Who has best adapted their approach
:50:52. > :50:58.to the demands of the modern age? Should they stick to prayer rather
:50:59. > :51:07.than tweeting? Vicky, I want to go to you first. The Archbishop says
:51:08. > :51:15.instant reactioned reflection. Why does he bore? It is fantastic. The
:51:16. > :51:18.way you communicate faith is great. You can have amazing theology and
:51:19. > :51:22.beliefs. If it is not getting through to people in a way they can
:51:23. > :51:30.understand it is falling on deaf ears. The church can see more
:51:31. > :51:34.irrelevant. Justin Welsby is using Twitter but saying those heat of the
:51:35. > :51:38.moment nasty concise thens we might say, which we might not say in
:51:39. > :51:45.person, you need to step back and reflect. Some things cannot be
:51:46. > :51:51.condensed into 140 characters. Some arguments over doctrinal and ethics
:51:52. > :51:54.are better placed overline. He is engaged but asking us to be
:51:55. > :51:58.cautious. When you look at the two leaders do you think they've
:51:59. > :52:04.different or similar leadership styles. Pope Francis wears simple
:52:05. > :52:10.robes, cooks for himself. Is getting rid of the Popemobile. They have
:52:11. > :52:15.very different jobs. The Archbishop is in an impossible position. Arch
:52:16. > :52:19.bush app Welsby. He's presiding over a church which is visibly collapsing
:52:20. > :52:24.and falling apart before our eyes and is declining. Whereas the Pope,
:52:25. > :52:28.there will always probably be a Pope. He's the leader of a worldwide
:52:29. > :52:32.church. The two jobs are very different. They are both good,
:52:33. > :52:38.simple Christian men. I think they are both men of prayer. Though,
:52:39. > :52:45.incidentally, referring to the fast food debate, one of the first things
:52:46. > :52:52.the Archbishop of Canterbury did was order pizza to Lambeth Palace. June,
:52:53. > :52:56.does it matter to you who? It only matters to me if the Archbishop has
:52:57. > :53:02.Christian values. It is very difficult to be a Christian in a
:53:03. > :53:08.Protestant. Because we are sneered at. We have to be very, very
:53:09. > :53:14.tolerant. Sometimes too tolerant. And you lose the values and the
:53:15. > :53:18.qualities, the truth of the church through that. I'm not expressing
:53:19. > :53:26.myself very well. But that is what I think. Whereas, it is a different
:53:27. > :53:32.faith, isn't it. It never really should have been. It is because of
:53:33. > :53:40.the Tudors, because of Henry. We should really be Catholic. Yes, you
:53:41. > :53:47.should! And so should we, we have the guilt, we might as well have...
:53:48. > :53:54.You were educated by Jesuits. Let's have unity on the sofas. Sorry.
:53:55. > :53:58.Absolutely, all agreeing. Is there agreement when you think about the
:53:59. > :54:05.sort of tactics that the leaders use to communicate with the faithful,
:54:06. > :54:10.tweeting? I abhor Twitter, Facebook. I think people should be more
:54:11. > :54:15.private. I don't understand why they want to tell everything. It is a
:54:16. > :54:20.good way of communicating. It is a bad way of communicating. We've
:54:21. > :54:28.heard from our friend and thee lodgeal here. Having to reduce the
:54:29. > :54:34.dock rat of atonement to 100 sillibles. 140 characters, Andrew.
:54:35. > :54:40.It is difficult to retweet a full document. If they were only engaged
:54:41. > :54:44.in tweeting Andrew and June's concerned are right. These are men
:54:45. > :54:52.of action as well as words. What I love is that... What action? I'm
:54:53. > :54:57.sorry, Hardeep. Tell me in the last 30 years how the church has changed.
:54:58. > :55:04.Let's talk about the sexual abuse cases. An apology. Thank you. What's
:55:05. > :55:08.changed and moved on? That's right? Pretty much nothing. We are talking
:55:09. > :55:14.about the style rather than Saab stance. Hang on, June. I'm going to
:55:15. > :55:21.quickly cross to Manchester and get a very quick thought from Bobby
:55:22. > :55:25.Friction there. The sun's still shining, the
:55:26. > :55:31.preparations are going on. I'm joined by people who've real
:55:32. > :55:36.interest in this debate. Fr Tim by Ron. A chaplain. Do you think Pope
:55:37. > :55:42.Francis is a true radical, especially in terms of his
:55:43. > :55:48.technology. We'll have to see about his long-term. He posted every
:55:49. > :55:57.Wednesday when he has a again audience. It is incredible. Most
:55:58. > :56:04.searched man on Facebook. Most retwisted chargey man on Facebook.
:56:05. > :56:08.You are' a Syrian from Damascus. The type of person Pope Francis is
:56:09. > :56:16.trying to reach out. Is he a radical? He is. He is Jesus-like. In
:56:17. > :56:22.September 2013 he invited the whole world to pray for peace in Syria. He
:56:23. > :56:29.stopped military intervention by the US in my country. Mark foster,
:56:30. > :56:33.you're an Evangelical Christian here. We've been talking about the
:56:34. > :56:38.Archbishop and the Pope. What are your views on them coming together?
:56:39. > :56:43.It is great. What's amazing about the Archbishop is he's sharing his
:56:44. > :56:48.real life story. That's what the Christian faith is about. How God
:56:49. > :56:52.interacts with our stories and our real life.
:56:53. > :56:59.Thank you. Let me bring you up to date with our text and online vote.
:57:00. > :57:00.Should there be a fat tax on shoeingry drinks and fast food.
:57:01. > :57:19.Here's what you told us. Hardeep, surprised? No, I think we
:57:20. > :57:23.have a community, a commonality. It makes sense as part of the wider
:57:24. > :57:29.project, holistic approach to improving the state of our nation.
:57:30. > :57:32.As we are currently constituted. Or at least the health of our nation.
:57:33. > :57:37.It is more than just health, Cristina. If you eat well, you're
:57:38. > :57:42.less prone to depression. More likely to spend time with your
:57:43. > :57:46.family instead of in hospital. Call me oversimplistic. Can I breathe
:57:47. > :57:50.now? You can breathe now. We will be talking about the substance of both
:57:51. > :57:55.religions in another programme. I know you feel frustrated it has
:57:56. > :58:00.finished there. That is it for this morning. Thanks to my guests this
:58:01. > :58:02.morning'sing. You thanks for your company too. Hope you'll join us
:58:03. > :58:54.next week. Bye-bye. What's up?
:58:55. > :59:00.Oi, oi! Hey, Glastonbury.
:59:01. > :59:03.How you doing?