Episode 11

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:00:12. > :00:18.Welcome to Sunday Morning Live. I am Sian Williams with a show that gets

:00:19. > :00:23.to the heart and soul of the big stories. On the programme: With

:00:24. > :00:29.British aid worker, Alan Henning, still being held by extremists, we

:00:30. > :00:34.ask whether aid in conflict zones should be left to governments. It is

:00:35. > :00:37.world peace Day and we will be with them to see how they are marking the

:00:38. > :00:43.event. The Bible in song, with a new

:00:44. > :00:49.musical about to open, how relevant is the holy book today?

:00:50. > :00:54.The man behind Mrs Brown. Brendan O'Carroll reveals how he made a

:00:55. > :00:57.mammy into a superstar. I just change my voice and it is exactly

:00:58. > :01:25.the same as that. All that coming up. Jim Knight is

:01:26. > :01:32.hoping to have a peaceful day on the banks of the Tyne.

:01:33. > :01:35.Good morning. Welcome to Gateshead on the banks of the beautiful River

:01:36. > :01:44.Tyne where people are gathering for a host of activities to celebrate

:01:45. > :01:50.world peace Day. These are the drums of the Sound Lounge. I will be

:01:51. > :01:57.bringing you reviews of the people from the North East on the topics he

:01:58. > :02:03.will be discussing in the studio. Thank you very much. We will be back

:02:04. > :02:07.with you later. First let's meet some of our guests who are settling

:02:08. > :02:16.in to discuss some of our topics. We have X model, and the man I be done

:02:17. > :02:22.Eggheads. CJ dim UE. Katie Harrison who works for Tear Fund 's. Maajid

:02:23. > :02:28.Nawaz who works for the Quilliam Foundation and James Whale. Welcome

:02:29. > :02:35.to the programme. Thanks for coming in. We would like to know what you

:02:36. > :02:52.think also. You can contact through phone, e-mail, Facebook and Twitter.

:02:53. > :02:59.The wife of a British taxi driver being held hostage by so-called

:03:00. > :03:06.Islamic State extremists has pleaded with them to see it in their hearts

:03:07. > :03:09.to release him. Alan Henning, at 47-year-old father of two from

:03:10. > :03:16.Salford was seized while on an aid mission to Syria last December. Her

:03:17. > :03:23.at heel has said, any threat to his life is forbidden in Islamic law.

:03:24. > :03:27.The only response from his kidnappers has been the release of

:03:28. > :03:34.another British hostage, journalists, John Kanter league he

:03:35. > :03:38.was captured in Syria just two months after being freed. And the

:03:39. > :03:44.beheading of David Haines highlight the danger of those working in Syria

:03:45. > :03:50.and Iraq. Why do aid workers continue to go there? We went to

:03:51. > :03:55.meet Katie Harrison to ask why she and other aid workers put themselves

:03:56. > :04:00.in harm 's way to help others. Katie Harrison has worked with Tear Fund

:04:01. > :04:05.for the last six years. We met her in London at an exhibition of Iraqi

:04:06. > :04:10.art. She has just come back from backcountry. It is one of the worst

:04:11. > :04:16.war-torn countries in the world she has visited. 1.8 people have had to

:04:17. > :04:22.leave. Lots of people moving around the country who need help. They have

:04:23. > :04:26.nowhere to live and they don't have food or water. We are not reckless

:04:27. > :04:36.people. We are very cautious. Although it seems rave to other

:04:37. > :04:40.people, -- brave, we go to places where we know it is safe to work and

:04:41. > :04:48.live. Sundays you cannot leave the base because it is a particular

:04:49. > :04:52.lockdown. -- Sundays. Everything has been taken, their sense of heritage,

:04:53. > :04:58.their place of belonging and their homes. They live with the trauma at

:04:59. > :05:02.the same time as trying to rebuild their lives. He did start hearing

:05:03. > :05:07.people taken. I did not think those people were like David Haines and

:05:08. > :05:15.Alan Henning. So me and other agencies took the decision to do it

:05:16. > :05:21.through local people and not go in ourselves. It is hard on family and

:05:22. > :05:26.friends, but they know who we are and they know why we do what we do.

:05:27. > :05:33.My family pray and that helps them to believe I will be OK. When we

:05:34. > :05:38.heard about David Haines a few weeks ago, there was a particular kind of

:05:39. > :05:44.fear but struck the heart of every aid worker. We feel the loss of

:05:45. > :05:50.David, as if it were a friend, even though we never met him. We all want

:05:51. > :05:54.our colleagues to come home and we will make sure that they do. But

:05:55. > :06:01.there are people who need our help and we will not stop doing that.

:06:02. > :06:06.Katie is here today. She was talking about her determination to carry on

:06:07. > :06:10.working in dangerous areas. Should aid workers still be allowed to

:06:11. > :06:16.bring relief to refugees or should the responsibility now be down to

:06:17. > :06:19.governments alone? Should aid in conflict sounds be left to

:06:20. > :06:40.governments? Results will be announced before the

:06:41. > :06:47.end of the programme. Katie, we will come to you in a second, but I want

:06:48. > :06:51.to talk to James Whale. Aid workers say they know the risks of going

:06:52. > :06:57.into conflict zones, if they know what they are letting themselves in

:06:58. > :07:03.for, shouldn't we allow them to go and help people in need? War is a

:07:04. > :07:08.terrible thing, it is futile. In the end everybody has to sit around and

:07:09. > :07:12.discuss it. Most people who get are innocent and did not want to be

:07:13. > :07:17.there in the first place. It makes it a lot more difficult if you know

:07:18. > :07:23.there are people who are there who are not part of the war. If you are

:07:24. > :07:29.trying to alleviate the suffering why military means, whether you do

:07:30. > :07:35.that, I don't know. I don't think people should be allowed to go there

:07:36. > :07:39.willy-nilly. I think we have to make it better for these people left in

:07:40. > :07:44.these appalling camps we see on television, but taking aid in their

:07:45. > :07:49.only relieves the tip of the iceberg. People put themselves in

:07:50. > :07:55.difficult situations and then we have to pick up the pieces. Charity

:07:56. > :08:00.aid workers should not go in there willy-nilly, Katie? They should not

:08:01. > :08:05.go in willy-nilly and I would like to think I didn't. And thousands

:08:06. > :08:12.like me, we know what we are doing. We are very careful, we train for it

:08:13. > :08:16.and we send people who know what they are doing and we liaise with

:08:17. > :08:22.the UN. We choose areas that we know we can stay safe in. That will

:08:23. > :08:28.depend on whether you are a man or woman or the colour of your skin in

:08:29. > :08:31.some countries. There are some people out of compassion and a

:08:32. > :08:37.misguided sense of adventure will go on their own and they will probably

:08:38. > :08:40.get into trouble. That is why I would encourage people to respond

:08:41. > :08:46.through an aid agency which has a lot of history in the area. People

:08:47. > :08:50.question whether a charity should be so big and have lots of people

:08:51. > :08:54.working for it, but you need the infrastructure and expertise.

:08:55. > :09:01.Despite that, aid workers are still being seen in Syria as collateral,

:09:02. > :09:07.as being used in enemy a gander. Everyone is targeted? Syria is

:09:08. > :09:13.different from Iraq and you have to take that into account. The

:09:14. > :09:21.unfortunate thing is, you are prolonging the suffering. Whilst you

:09:22. > :09:23.go in and do that, and these are all non-government organisations. You

:09:24. > :09:28.are asking people to donate the money to take in there and feed the

:09:29. > :09:32.people, it is prolonging the situation and the suffering. I am

:09:33. > :09:38.sure it is not you, but I get the idea when I talk to people like you,

:09:39. > :09:42.you get a kick out of doing this. If you weren't doing it, the government

:09:43. > :09:47.is not going to do it, their government is not going to do it,

:09:48. > :09:55.maybe an end will come quicker to the conflict. What do you mean, get

:09:56. > :10:02.a kick out of it? They get a kick out of going there. Isn't it

:10:03. > :10:08.vocational? Is it? The vast majority never get any aid at all. I don't

:10:09. > :10:15.think we are prolonging the suffering, that is ridiculous. We

:10:16. > :10:19.are alleviating a lot of need. The people we are seeing being held

:10:20. > :10:25.hostage taken long time ago. We knew that and we have stopped sending

:10:26. > :10:30.people in. What you are seeing is an historical thing that has happened.

:10:31. > :10:35.Just stay out of the way and things can be sorted out. What do you

:10:36. > :10:42.think? I don't think any conflict is the same. There are certain conflict

:10:43. > :10:47.zones where Al-Qaeda and their offshoots as in the case of ISIS art

:10:48. > :10:51.operating. They target anyone who is not a Muslim. They will be taken

:10:52. > :11:00.hostage and could be potentially killed or ransomed. It is not don't

:11:01. > :11:04.send aid workers into conflict zones, it is decide which ones to

:11:05. > :11:08.send them to? Hamas is a terrorist organisation but they don't have a

:11:09. > :11:14.track record of beheading Western aid workers. Aid workers need expert

:11:15. > :11:19.advice and that is where the larger aid agencies come into their own. I

:11:20. > :11:24.would cautious of advising anyone to volunteer for an aid agency that

:11:25. > :11:29.popped up yesterday. We have to look at the nature of the conflict, be

:11:30. > :11:32.responsible. There have been aid workers who have gone against the

:11:33. > :11:38.guidelines and gone into the conflict zone and have been taken

:11:39. > :11:42.hostage. They do end up becoming a difficult burden on the nation from

:11:43. > :11:48.which they come to as well as being concerned for their own lives and

:11:49. > :11:54.they become a pawn. We are talking about the theory of continuing to

:11:55. > :12:05.send aid workers into areas of conflict. CJ, if aid workers don't

:12:06. > :12:11.go, who helps these people? This is the problem. If you divide in two

:12:12. > :12:18.double sections, we have governments and NGOs. Governments are stymied by

:12:19. > :12:23.this ghost of Specter and diplomacy. If diplomacy did not exist, we would

:12:24. > :12:32.have had something done about President Putin or you Gabi. The

:12:33. > :12:38.NGOs have a role to play, but now we are seeing people targeting the

:12:39. > :12:42.international Red Cross, it might be Tear Fund or other organisations who

:12:43. > :12:47.are trying to help because the government will not get off their

:12:48. > :12:51.backsides and do anything. Who will go in and do the work? Governments

:12:52. > :12:55.are not doing anything, if the NGOs are able to provide the assistance,

:12:56. > :13:04.provide the funding, are they going to be allowed to do it? Look at the

:13:05. > :13:06.areas of conflict and if it looks as if they will be more at risk than

:13:07. > :13:14.others, then don't go there. If it is Al-Qaeda, aid agencies will be

:13:15. > :13:19.taken hostage. We have our guest from our newsroom studio. I gather a

:13:20. > :13:27.couple of your colleagues have been murdered, I think it was in Chad in

:13:28. > :13:32.Africa? They were just held up at gunpoint in Chad and murdered. It

:13:33. > :13:35.was a mugging, effectively. The point James is making about politics

:13:36. > :13:42.and government is not doing anything, random things happen. If

:13:43. > :13:47.you send a government in to do aid, they are still people and flesh and

:13:48. > :13:55.blood. Not only are they at a much risk as anyone else, there risk is

:13:56. > :13:58.increased because they come -- become political targets.

:13:59. > :14:05.Humanitarians and aid workers give aid on the basis of need and forget

:14:06. > :14:08.the politics. EB begin to use governments and they become

:14:09. > :14:14.associated with politics and they become more dangerous. Unless aid

:14:15. > :14:18.gets through, we are in all sorts of trouble. If you send in governments,

:14:19. > :14:21.the people on the ground start to distrust them because they think

:14:22. > :14:26.they are affiliated with the people they fear, and then they become

:14:27. > :14:32.targets themselves? I don't understand, this has become big

:14:33. > :14:38.business. Aid organisations have become big business. I am not being

:14:39. > :14:44.rude, but if conflict did not occur, you would be out of business. I am

:14:45. > :14:54.beginning to wonder whether too much of this is prolonging the situation.

:14:55. > :14:58.this country by what we see on television news. If we saw some of

:14:59. > :15:03.the news reports in other countries, war might stop a little quicker than

:15:04. > :15:08.it does at the moment. So you just get out and leave them to it? To be

:15:09. > :15:12.honest, if people are going to start doing this, if they get to a

:15:13. > :15:16.situation, either we go in and we stop the whole thing and say right,

:15:17. > :15:21.you are not doing it. By that we can't send aircraft in to shoot at

:15:22. > :15:25.where we think people are, and all the top brass in the armed forces

:15:26. > :15:29.will tell you nothing will get sorted out until you send troops in,

:15:30. > :15:33.so eventually you will have to send troops in. The Government here is

:15:34. > :15:39.considering airdrops and air strikes as well. I think the truth is in

:15:40. > :15:43.between. We've got to be wary of the pendulum swinging too far either

:15:44. > :15:50.way. When the Yazidi were stuck on the mountain in Sinjar, the military

:15:51. > :15:55.did drop in food supplies, and they were helpful until a safe corridor

:15:56. > :16:01.was created to get them off the mountain. And what about military

:16:02. > :16:05.action, air strikes? Again it is not an either or. In the case of air

:16:06. > :16:09.strikes in Iraq to make sure the Yazidi got off the mountain, that

:16:10. > :16:13.was the right thing to do, it was necessary and we were trying to stop

:16:14. > :16:18.a genocide. That's different from a full-on invasion of a country.

:16:19. > :16:23.Dominic, would that put people in the country trying to deliver aid at

:16:24. > :16:28.more risk if there is air strikes? Lots of things put aid workers at

:16:29. > :16:34.risk. As Katie was saying, that's the job. Mostly we will use local

:16:35. > :16:39.people, trained to do aid work, as they have a much lower risk profile.

:16:40. > :16:43.They are not so valuable, to put it frankly, to the hostage takers, as

:16:44. > :16:48.they may be Muslims in a local territory where there might be ISIS.

:16:49. > :16:53.You will only send in foreigners when you have to around the edges.

:16:54. > :16:57.We are getting this out of kilter. 95% of aid workers are from local

:16:58. > :17:01.communities and that's the right way to go. Dominic, thank you. We are

:17:02. > :17:04.going to Newcastle, where it is World Peace Day. There are many

:17:05. > :17:12.events there. Lots of people trying to make their voices heard. Jim

:17:13. > :17:16.Knight, what are they saying there? Thank you Sian. Welcome back to the

:17:17. > :17:21.quayside where the debate is continuing. I'm joined by Alan

:17:22. > :17:25.Robson, who host as late night radio show. I believe your view is it is

:17:26. > :17:29.too dangerous for these aid workers to go now? Like any other how many

:17:30. > :17:33.being pi absolutely support aid and have done all my life. I will help

:17:34. > :17:37.anybody that needs it. There's plenty that do, because frankly

:17:38. > :17:42.Governments don't put their hand in their own pockets. It is usually

:17:43. > :17:47.people led. However, as it stands now, people are packing a van, a wag

:17:48. > :17:50.good afternoon, and heading off with a few vans from a supermarket chain

:17:51. > :17:57.with well-intentioned people and they are getting is into trouble.

:17:58. > :18:02.We've learned nothing from Rambo 4. There were a number of people in a

:18:03. > :18:06.van that needed rescuing. It has happened far who often already. Once

:18:07. > :18:09.is too many times. Don't give them people to play with. These people

:18:10. > :18:17.are too important to us the, so let a Government come in and decide.

:18:18. > :18:22.Thank you Alan. Dr Anan, you support charities that do aid work and you

:18:23. > :18:27.are back from Palestine. Is it your view we should continue to do this

:18:28. > :18:32.on an individual bases? I would love the Government to protect me while

:18:33. > :18:35.die this, but I wouldn't do it at the cost of my life. You are

:18:36. > :18:40.supporting their cause by offering your head and that is wrong. Should

:18:41. > :18:44.just Governments do this now? No, it takes away the meaning of aid,

:18:45. > :18:48.compassion, help and love, and Governments aren't into that. I

:18:49. > :18:55.wouldn't like to do aid by offering my head. You are back from the war

:18:56. > :18:58.zone. I've been fired rubber bullets and at tear gassed in this very

:18:59. > :19:03.shirt. I wouldn't do it again. Thank you guys. Back to you Sian. Don't

:19:04. > :19:07.give them people to play with, get the Government is, that's what one

:19:08. > :19:10.of the guests said there, Katie. If you are talking about the

:19:11. > :19:14.Governments in those countries, off. Those Governments are overwhelmed by

:19:15. > :19:18.what's happened. The central African Government, there is no Government.

:19:19. > :19:21.It is chaotic and lawless. There is no constitution. In the Kurdish

:19:22. > :19:24.region of Iraq, where I was a few weeks ago, the local authorities are

:19:25. > :19:28.doing a brilliant job to help displaced people but more and more

:19:29. > :19:32.people are coming and they haven't got enough resource. They need extra

:19:33. > :19:36.help for a period of time. Dominic is right. The onus has to be on

:19:37. > :19:40.local organisations and local people. That's a much more long-term

:19:41. > :19:47.and sustainable way to help people out of their immediate need and out

:19:48. > :19:51.of poverty so they can rebuild their lives, or they will detective

:19:52. > :19:54.dependent. You have to get them to work together in each country with a

:19:55. > :19:58.long-term aim of helping people rebuild their lives. You are

:19:59. > :20:03.prolonging the aggravation, prolonging the agony by doing that.

:20:04. > :20:06.Isn't that a broader conversation? I think it might be a broad

:20:07. > :20:12.conversation. We have to go there another time. Thank you all very

:20:13. > :20:17.much. All our throughout are with the families being held hostage. A

:20:18. > :20:20.ghastly situation for them. The vote is still open. Should aid in

:20:21. > :20:23.conflict zones be left to Governments? Remember, you can only

:20:24. > :20:39.vote once. You've got about 20 minutes before

:20:40. > :20:44.vote closes. You can also vote online at

:20:45. > :20:49.bbc.co.uk/sundaymorninglive. Results will be announced at the end of the

:20:50. > :20:58.programme. Still to come on Sunday Morning Live: Owzat, as the Vatican

:20:59. > :21:04.take on the Anglican as for the first time at cricket, it is too

:21:05. > :21:10.much for the Archbishop. Sorry, I have to leave it, this is getting

:21:11. > :21:14.too tense! ? Now to the Irish housewife with a heart of gold and

:21:15. > :21:17.an acid tongue. She's the star character in the hit BBC series Mrs

:21:18. > :21:20.Brown's Boys, always ready with a cup of tea and some choice words.

:21:21. > :21:24.Comedian Brendan O'Carroll created Mrs Brown decades ago, and now his

:21:25. > :21:27.series and the character he plays is a huge success. But life for Brendan

:21:28. > :21:35.hasn't always been easy, as I discovered when I went to meet the

:21:36. > :21:42.man behind the mammy. It's lovely to see you. It's great to be here,

:21:43. > :21:47.Sian. Thank you. Without your wig and big bosoms, and the bigamous

:21:48. > :21:52.tache. In the early days I did leave the moustache on but I looked too

:21:53. > :21:57.much like my mother, so I took it off. That's a horrible thing to say

:21:58. > :22:06.about your mother! Listen you, you were not Gok Wan. You are not even

:22:07. > :22:11.Gow Two! So the character is based on your mother? First of all Mrs

:22:12. > :22:16.Brown's Boys isn't just a TV series. It started as a radio series and

:22:17. > :22:19.then went to books. And then stage plays and then TV. The books are

:22:20. > :22:22.popular radio series and then went to books. And then stage plays and

:22:23. > :22:25.then TV. The books are popular in America - thank God, got bless their

:22:26. > :22:32.royaltiesies. One of the first things the Americans would ask me is

:22:33. > :22:37.is Mrs Brown based on your mother? No, my mother had a university

:22:38. > :22:40.degree. She was the first female Member of Parliament for the Labour

:22:41. > :22:44.Party in Ireland. So I said no. But actually I'm starting to realise the

:22:45. > :22:51.older I get, Mrs Brown is probably my mother without that education.

:22:52. > :22:55.Ah. So my mother had great warmth and understanding and she was the

:22:56. > :23:01.hub of the family. With 11 children, she ran the shop. 11 children? Yes,

:23:02. > :23:06.I know! How did she manage? I was lucky. I don't know how they managed

:23:07. > :23:12.to have 11 children. We had two bedroom's. They must have been in

:23:13. > :23:15.the wardrobe! I don't know where they were. I wasn't conscious, I

:23:16. > :23:18.suppose everybody's the same. You grow up in a particular environment

:23:19. > :23:24.and it seems like the environment that you are. In I wasn't conscious

:23:25. > :23:29.of it being overcrowded, or of not having anything. What it did for me

:23:30. > :23:33.as the youngest, my bigger sisters in particular, he to walk across the

:23:34. > :23:47.floor and I got a round of applause. It gave me that willingness to

:23:48. > :23:52.perform. There goes Happy Feet. I'd better go in and see what's

:23:53. > :23:59.happening in the No Po My mother brought me up. I can remember she

:24:00. > :24:06.sat me up at the edge of the table, I was 31. No, I was five. She would

:24:07. > :24:10.tie my shoelaces, and she had pinch my le, I was 31. No, I was five. She

:24:11. > :24:13.would tie my shoelaces, and she had pinch my cheeks and say, "You can do

:24:14. > :24:16.anything you want to do, you know. Anything." . I remember once saying

:24:17. > :24:18.to her and I wrote this in the introduction to one of the books, I

:24:19. > :24:24.remember, because you get to be a clever catalogue es when you are

:24:25. > :24:29.seven. She said a question. I said mummy, you say I can do anything,

:24:30. > :24:33.but I can't fly. She said, yes you confirm put your arms out and work

:24:34. > :24:39.as hard as you can and close your eyes. You'll fly. I remember we

:24:40. > :24:43.played our first Arena in Newcastle. We went on stage and there were

:24:44. > :24:49.7,000 people and we did the show. It was a great show. A standing ovation

:24:50. > :24:55.and I felt like going, look mum, I'm flying, and I was. It was amazing.

:24:56. > :25:00.I'm not just a cleaner. I have a market stall as well. I sell fruit

:25:01. > :25:06.and vegetables, because I'm a businesswoman. How do you think she

:25:07. > :25:11.would, if she was looking down on you? I think if it happened when she

:25:12. > :25:18.was alive, nothing would have surpassed this. She sounds like an

:25:19. > :25:23.incredible woman. She was. Gave you a lot. When one of the first

:25:24. > :25:27.children was born I went through the panicky things, if I don't feed

:25:28. > :25:32.this, it dies, I can never work defence. I said to my mum, what do

:25:33. > :25:39.we do here? I don't know what's important for them. She said to me,

:25:40. > :25:46.all children want is to be not afraid. They just wants you to make

:25:47. > :25:53.them not afraid. Not afraid to try. Not afraid to fail. And not afraid

:25:54. > :25:58.to succeed. Children just want to be not afraid. Brendan has had his

:25:59. > :26:03.successes and awards but he's also had bad times too. In Dublin, 25

:26:04. > :26:07.years ago, a partner in a pub business disappeared, leaving

:26:08. > :26:12.Brendan with a mountain of debt. He ran off with all your money you had

:26:13. > :26:17.made together. And furniture, light fittings, everything. Really? Why?

:26:18. > :26:22.He wasn't well. He wasn't well. Once I found out he wasn't well, my heart

:26:23. > :26:27.broke. He be so angry, my heart broke. I'm very lucky I had my

:26:28. > :26:33.health. I don't know what kind of pain he was in. If that eases pain

:26:34. > :26:38.for a couple of months or couple of years, you know what Good for him.

:26:39. > :26:44.As well as, that if he hadn't done that, I wouldn't be doing this.

:26:45. > :26:48.Wherever he is, God bless him. Why do you think that At that time,

:26:49. > :26:56.everything was gone. I owed more than I owned. I had been self

:26:57. > :27:01.employed, so I had no dole. And no income. My friends for years have

:27:02. > :27:08.been saying to me, you should be on the stage, you are so funny, but you

:27:09. > :27:14.can't trust your friend It forced me. I need a gig that will give me

:27:15. > :27:19.cash money. That I can get access to money, that will pay me literally

:27:20. > :27:25.under the table, because I needed to live. I rang a friend of my, John

:27:26. > :27:29.Swedeny, God bless him as well. He was a barman and I was a waiter and

:27:30. > :27:35.we trained together as kids. I called him and said John, give he a

:27:36. > :27:42.gig. He said, doing what? I said, comedy, and he laughed, so I had him

:27:43. > :27:48.already. Don't step, there you'll hurt him. You did. I'm allowed, it's

:27:49. > :27:54.my job. Thanks, mammy. I walked into a bar and said, listen, I could fill

:27:55. > :28:00.this place. I had my own stage, lights, everything. I was gigging

:28:01. > :28:06.like that and all of a sudden I was doing eight gigs a week. And because

:28:07. > :28:10.of the situation I was in, I was pricing, you don't know how to price

:28:11. > :28:15.yourself, that's why they get agents. You don't know your own

:28:16. > :28:21.value. I was easily able to value it. Iowa say, how much is in it, and

:28:22. > :28:28.they would say 50 gig. I would say that's a pound of butter, sugar,

:28:29. > :28:36.nappies. Yep, I'll do it. So you had kids at that stage as well? Three

:28:37. > :28:40.kids. And I lost one. I'm sorry. No, many people out there lose people.

:28:41. > :28:45.Did that then, going on stage and being somebody else to for a while

:28:46. > :28:56.or inviting comedy, did that help you get over? In the early stages

:28:57. > :29:01.being able to hide. Even through all the difficulties over the years,

:29:02. > :29:07.having that stage, it is not that stage persona, I would like to think

:29:08. > :29:12.I'm the same on stage as offstage, except when I'm wearing the dress.

:29:13. > :29:19.That two hours, my stand-up show is two hours long for a stand-up

:29:20. > :29:24.concert. For that two hours, there is no mortgage, no debt. It is just

:29:25. > :29:28.you and the audience. No matter how dark and difficult things get during

:29:29. > :29:35.the day, for two hours at night you're free. ??FORCEDWHIT At last I

:29:36. > :29:41.get to meet her. She's very posh, mammy. And so are we. We have a

:29:42. > :29:50.series on the BBC, I don't think she has.

:29:51. > :30:02.Brendan O'Carroll. We will hear more from him later. From ballroom to the

:30:03. > :30:07.Bible on stage. Musicals about religion can be successful. Jerry

:30:08. > :30:14.Springer the Musical or the book of Mormon. There is a new one about to

:30:15. > :30:20.open in London and is being billed as the greatest love story ever

:30:21. > :30:28.told. Love beyond travels from Genesis to

:30:29. > :30:31.Revelation is in music. It is in rehearsal at the moment and most of

:30:32. > :30:42.the major characters in the Bible get our part. -- apart. It is a

:30:43. > :30:52.different take on the holy book but will it reignite interest in the

:30:53. > :30:56.Scriptures? If recent research from the Bible Society is anything to go

:30:57. > :31:05.by, a bit more promotion for the world's rest selling book might be

:31:06. > :31:08.needed. A poll has revealed many confuse biblical stories with

:31:09. > :31:20.plotlines from well-known films like Harry Potter. The entertainment

:31:21. > :31:26.industry sees value in the Bible. Is the Bible in for a revival? Does it

:31:27. > :31:31.need a bit of stardust to make it more relevant or, is it resonance so

:31:32. > :31:39.much that you should not have to make a song and dance over it?

:31:40. > :31:44.Does this 2000 year-old book of prayers and pros have anything to

:31:45. > :31:54.teach today? We are joined by a Irving Finkel and the writer of The

:31:55. > :32:03.Ark Before Noah. And Tabitha Webb, the co-writer and director of love

:32:04. > :32:10.beyond. And she has had association with temp macro and Phantom of the

:32:11. > :32:16.Opera. And we still have CJ on the sofa. Do

:32:17. > :32:22.you think the Bible still has relevance in society? People call it

:32:23. > :32:32.the world's rest selling book but it is probably the least Redbook. Have

:32:33. > :32:36.you read it? I haven't. As for the Bible being relevant to me, of

:32:37. > :32:42.course not, I have a brain. How do you know it is relevant if you have

:32:43. > :32:50.not read it? I know most of what is in it because I need to know various

:32:51. > :32:56.aspects of life. I know a lot of the commandments and a lot of stuff from

:32:57. > :33:01.V kiss, which is an aggressive chapter. As far as being relevant to

:33:02. > :33:05.me, it isn't. People say you do a lot of charity work and you have a

:33:06. > :33:12.nice outlook, you must lead a wonderful, Christian life. No, I

:33:13. > :33:20.lead a good life which predates the Christian era by sometime. And if

:33:21. > :33:25.Jesus Christ ever did exist, some people in the Bible were real, King

:33:26. > :33:33.Herod was a real person. But how can a work of fiction have relevance to

:33:34. > :33:39.day. Let pick-up on a few of those controversial comments. It is

:33:40. > :33:42.basically a work of fiction? It is not relevant because you can get

:33:43. > :33:51.your moral code from other places other than a book that has been

:33:52. > :33:56.around the 2000 years. I want to say I think his work amongst the

:33:57. > :34:01.homeless is fantastic, but why is morality the way it is? In Western

:34:02. > :34:07.civilisation it has been founded on biblical principles. The law has

:34:08. > :34:13.been founded on Christian values and people who don't share the Christian

:34:14. > :34:22.faith can follow those values, but to write it off as no moral worth.

:34:23. > :34:30.You acknowledge it has something with in it... It has no relevance to

:34:31. > :34:37.me. I just think it is a load of rubbish. It is interesting to look

:34:38. > :34:42.at the Bible as a piece of writing because not all of the content is of

:34:43. > :34:47.the same category and some of it is historical records edited into a

:34:48. > :34:52.narrative, some of it is poetry, it is a hodgepodge of all sorts of

:34:53. > :34:58.stuff woven together into a single narrative which has underpinned

:34:59. > :35:02.western thinking for a long time. It is a pity to write it off as being

:35:03. > :35:10.more or less valueless in modern society. The several reasons, so

:35:11. > :35:16.much of the world around is conditioned by the time when the

:35:17. > :35:20.Bible was around. I did an exhibition about Babylon so I have a

:35:21. > :35:26.kind of measure about what people know about that world. You can have

:35:27. > :35:31.a ruler that went from floor to ceiling by age. A selection of

:35:32. > :35:38.ladies aged 80, probably all of them have read the Bible and ladies who

:35:39. > :35:44.are 70, maybe some of them and then when you get down to 60, a few had

:35:45. > :35:50.only read some chapters. When you go into a school they don't know the

:35:51. > :35:55.stories we took for granted. As we were saying some are some people

:35:56. > :36:04.believe the Bible is basically Harry Potter. The Bible Society suggested

:36:05. > :36:11.54% of parents thought The Hunger Games was a biblical story. It is

:36:12. > :36:16.shocking. I was brought up with the Bible from an early age but I have

:36:17. > :36:22.had experience in my life to back-up what I read in it. Without those

:36:23. > :36:28.experiences, maybe those experiences might not hold so much truth. Do you

:36:29. > :36:32.think it reinforces what is already there, you have a framework of

:36:33. > :36:40.experiences and the Bible helps reinforce that? Yes, what I see in

:36:41. > :36:47.the Bible racks up what I see of the character of God, the one I have

:36:48. > :36:54.experience of. Love. My experience was different. I come from a Hindu

:36:55. > :37:00.background, no Christian formation in my background but I saw my friend

:37:01. > :37:07.at school become a Christian aged 15 so I started to read the Bible.

:37:08. > :37:13.Particularly the Gospel, Jesus and person he was and the way he helped

:37:14. > :37:23.the poor. You believe this is the Word of God. CJ believes it is

:37:24. > :37:28.fiction. You believe it is fact? Definitely. The Gospels make a claim

:37:29. > :37:34.to historical reliability, there was a man called Jesus. As an

:37:35. > :37:38.archaeologist, how much of it is fact? When archaeology started in

:37:39. > :37:43.the middle eastern world, they were looking for stuff to prove the Bible

:37:44. > :37:48.was true. They went to dig in these places where all these events took

:37:49. > :37:54.place. It is a state forward statement that all of the material

:37:55. > :37:56.which has been generated by archaeology, primarily written

:37:57. > :38:03.evidence, nothing has come which contradicts the Bible and proves it

:38:04. > :38:09.wrong. What it does do is show the Bible is a textual source which came

:38:10. > :38:14.out of the world which we can otherwise see. It is a miraculous,

:38:15. > :38:24.wonderful resorts about evolution and the human mind. It real validity

:38:25. > :38:32.is not whether you pay for your bus tickets. But it has a genius of

:38:33. > :38:40.understand if -- understanding. It is thought is, parables, poetry and

:38:41. > :38:46.prose. Sometimes things are interpreted in different ways and

:38:47. > :38:58.the social outlook from 2000 years ago don't apply today. Thou shalt

:38:59. > :39:04.not suffer a witch to live. That is quite uncomfortable. That is where

:39:05. > :39:08.theology today is taking the essence of the Bible and seeing the threads

:39:09. > :39:14.within it and seeing it as a whole and couldn't chill I Zinc. Does that

:39:15. > :39:19.mean you cherry pick the bits you like and leave the bits you'd find

:39:20. > :39:24.difficult? You have to understand the cultural context in which they

:39:25. > :39:30.were written. You have to understand the thread of love and figures must

:39:31. > :39:40.-- forgiveness that runs through it. Even into new Testament times when

:39:41. > :39:46.things got exciting. It is seeing the thread and pattern of what it

:39:47. > :39:54.homes into. A lot of people do cherry pick it. There is a wonderful

:39:55. > :40:00.story about an American redneck who had a tattooed, the verse about a

:40:01. > :40:05.man lying down with a man and said it was a mortal sin. Until somebody

:40:06. > :40:10.pointed out it was a mortal sin to have a tattooed on your body. I have

:40:11. > :40:16.no problem if people want to have faith. I don't have any myself, I

:40:17. > :40:22.can take responsibility for my own life. It is religion, which for me

:40:23. > :40:33.the Bible... You disagree with it? Absolutely. I want to go to

:40:34. > :40:41.Newcastle and back to Jim Knight. Welcome back to Gateshead, the drums

:40:42. > :40:45.of the Sound Lounge are giving us a lovely rumbling accompaniment today.

:40:46. > :40:50.Is the Bible still relevant for the young people you deal with? It is

:40:51. > :40:52.because the Bible is a love story. It is about our relationship with

:40:53. > :41:02.God, It is about our relationship with

:41:03. > :41:04.and each other. It is made up of different styles of literature. The

:41:05. > :41:09.prophecies, wisdom, poetry and all this rich literature points to a

:41:10. > :41:14.redemptive process of reunion back with God and each other. It is very

:41:15. > :41:16.relevant to everyone today, particularly with young people. The

:41:17. > :41:29.root of this message, which is a particularly with young people. The

:41:30. > :41:38.N'Zogbia 's ago. It will be in the future as well. It is manifested in

:41:39. > :41:43.creation and is realised in the Incarnation, the person

:41:44. > :41:44.creation and is realised in the Christ who shows us in human terms

:41:45. > :41:53.what perfect love is. If love is relevant to you, me and young

:41:54. > :41:56.people, to all of humanity, then the message and moral code of the Bible

:41:57. > :42:00.will be relevant today. It is relevant and especially relevant to

:42:01. > :42:07.young people searching for that love. For a slightly different

:42:08. > :42:11.perspective, you are the chairman of the humanist Society in the North

:42:12. > :42:17.East. How do you respond to that? Does it have the same relevance to

:42:18. > :42:23.you? It doesn't, but it is an interesting book. I have read it.

:42:24. > :42:26.But I had to say, what I find difficult is the way so many

:42:27. > :42:31.religions have a pick and mix approach. They use particular parts

:42:32. > :42:42.to justify their actions. There is some pretty things, a lot of

:42:43. > :42:46.discrimination. It is the message of love, and that is the message

:42:47. > :42:52.humanists have. We follow the golden rule, treats people as you want them

:42:53. > :42:57.to treat you, and it does not happen. We have to leave it there.

:42:58. > :43:01.Back to the studio. Just to let you know we have a

:43:02. > :43:08.special performance from one of the stars, love Leon, Paul Ayres, who

:43:09. > :43:18.plays Jesus. That is coming up at the end of the show. -- love beyond.

:43:19. > :43:24.Our voting is closing on aid workers in conflict zones. We will bring you

:43:25. > :43:28.the results before the end of the programme.

:43:29. > :43:32.Brendan O'Carroll, creator and star of Mrs Brown 's boys told us of the

:43:33. > :43:36.inspiration for his Irish mammy, his own much loved mum. As a Catholic

:43:37. > :43:43.boy, the church was part of his childhood. We asked him whether it

:43:44. > :43:46.fits into his life now and when he fell into debt and despair, if he

:43:47. > :44:05.lost his faith? in God. I lost my faith in people. I

:44:06. > :44:10.was always struck by the Church. We built a church in our local

:44:11. > :44:15.community, by my mother and father giving an envelope with ten

:44:16. > :44:19.shillings in it every week. Today that church is there and it is owned

:44:20. > :44:27.by the Church. Even though the people paid for it. Is it not still

:44:28. > :44:31.the people's? No. Whose is it? If they sell it, who is going to get

:44:32. > :44:40.the money. You are not a fan of organised religion? In any shape or

:44:41. > :44:44.form. All you need to do is hold a baby, pick a flower or look at a

:44:45. > :44:50.mountain range. You don't need to prove there is a God. He's there.

:44:51. > :44:55.I've gone to a church for peace. There is nothing as peaceful as

:44:56. > :45:01.sitting in a church on your own. Maybe it is hiding. Sitting there

:45:02. > :45:08.and saying out loud, why aring doing this? Why me? What I did do? It is

:45:09. > :45:18.wonderful. But I've gone there for privacy to talk to God. I never lost

:45:19. > :45:22.my faith in God. And again, I say a lost my faith in people. I lost my

:45:23. > :45:27.faith in organised religion. People are so generous. Given the

:45:28. > :45:32.opportunity, everybody will help you. But most of us push it away,

:45:33. > :45:38.when we need help especially, we push it away. Because we are

:45:39. > :45:42.embarrassed. Last month Brendan appeared on a BBC programme and

:45:43. > :45:47.discovering that his grandfather was shot in 1920 by a British Army

:45:48. > :45:52.officer. He had refused to reveal the whereabouts of his sons who were

:45:53. > :45:56.members of the IRA. He had a visit from a British Army officer who

:45:57. > :46:01.warned him if his son didn't surrender at the castle before a

:46:02. > :46:10.given date, he would be shot. Oh Carl was found shot dead in his shop

:46:11. > :46:13.later. On his body was pinned l was found shot dead in his shop later.

:46:14. > :46:16.On his body was pinned the card, "Spies beware." The main thing I

:46:17. > :46:20.took out of that was pride. If somebody knocks at your door and say

:46:21. > :46:24.we'll be back, and if you don't hand over your sons we are going to shoot

:46:25. > :46:29.Su. When they knocked at that door that night and he walked out of his

:46:30. > :46:34.wife's bedroom, he knew he was going to be killed. But he wasn't giving

:46:35. > :46:39.up his kids. I don't care what your cause is, any man that's prepared to

:46:40. > :46:46.die for his children is certainly, it gives me great pride it was in my

:46:47. > :46:50.family. I hope I would do the same. I'd go Danny, come here, you're

:46:51. > :47:01.wanted. I hope I would do the same. Is I'm very proud of Will you be my

:47:02. > :47:06.best man? I do! Brendan is very proud of his family both on and off

:47:07. > :47:10.screen. His wife Jennifer plays his daughter, Cathy. Now she's taking

:47:11. > :47:14.part in Strictly Come Dancing. Pride in your family, pride in your

:47:15. > :47:20.partner, pride in somebody else gives you more confidence. Everybody

:47:21. > :47:25.morning I get up I want to woo Jenny. I want to prove myself.

:47:26. > :47:29.That's a lovely thing to say. What's the point otherwise? You can't take

:47:30. > :47:35.anything for granted. Especially other people. Does, is it a bit

:47:36. > :47:40.weird that she plays your daughter-in-law Mrs Brown's Boys, or

:47:41. > :47:47.have you completely got over that? Do the years, that is such a skill.

:47:48. > :47:52.In a nice way. It is weird in that we when we arrive at the theatre we

:47:53. > :47:57.give each other a peck on the cheek and say, see you later. We come on

:47:58. > :48:03.brown as Mrs Brown and Cathy. We come off and go for a drink after

:48:04. > :48:09.and say, it was a good show. And Jennifer is sitting there. Come

:48:10. > :48:15.over, Mrs Strictly Come Dancing. How are you feeling about that? Again,

:48:16. > :48:22.I'm so, so proud. Come and sit down. It is great to watch the cameraman

:48:23. > :48:27.panicking trying to reset the shot. You're used to all this, things

:48:28. > :48:37.going wrong, being unpredictable. Are you excited Cathy? Sit just me

:48:38. > :48:42.excited? I'd do it. I'm so used to seeing you as Kathy. Excuse me,ly

:48:43. > :48:48.say that again. They'll have to keep that in now. Jennifer, are you

:48:49. > :48:51.excited about it? I am. It is a combination of terror and

:48:52. > :48:55.excitement. And those emotions nearly got the better of her in

:48:56. > :49:08.rehearsals. Just before she went to do the dance she fell down the

:49:09. > :49:12.stairs. I was coming down... You should do it together? In fact you

:49:13. > :49:16.should do it as Mrs Brown. Seriously. The idea had been mooted

:49:17. > :49:21.that it would be nice in the Christmas special just for one dense

:49:22. > :49:26.with Len and Mrs Brown. Are you going to do it? Who would lead? Are

:49:27. > :49:32.you going to do it? I don't think so. Listen, the one thing, it is

:49:33. > :49:35.nice to have a crossover between Mrs Brown and something else, but

:49:36. > :49:42.Strictly Come Dancing doesn't need me or Mrs Brown. It is an entity in

:49:43. > :49:47.its own right. And you've got to protect Mrs Brown as well. I have to

:49:48. > :49:52.protect her from Len. Buster, thanks very much for coming round. I'm

:49:53. > :49:57.sorry it's not more lively. No problem, would like to dance? No. Do

:49:58. > :50:07.you ever feel you will give her up? She's been part of you for more than

:50:08. > :50:13.20 years now. 58 years. There is a bit of an old dear in me. It is so

:50:14. > :50:18.simple for me to do this, because I'm not putting on a persona, I just

:50:19. > :50:23.change the voice. It is exactly the same as that. You're a lovely child.

:50:24. > :50:29.Don't do that without your costume, because it really does sound weird.

:50:30. > :50:34.I can't deal with it like when we are doing the rehearsals or a camera

:50:35. > :50:38.rehearsal on the show on BBC, I said I can deal with it when you're

:50:39. > :50:44.police brown and I love it when you're you, it is the hybrid I can't

:50:45. > :50:57.deal. Don't be walking around the shoes on in your own trousers. No,

:50:58. > :51:04.too weird. Who was an eejit? Your brother. You'll get no argument with

:51:05. > :51:10.me. Thank you Dr Spock. Spock. You can help her practise the dancing.

:51:11. > :51:14.I'm knoll a great dancer or a great enthusiast of dancing. I like to

:51:15. > :51:19.stay fit, though I missed the gym in morning. That's ten years now. I

:51:20. > :51:25.will help in anyway I can and the only way I can do that is to let her

:51:26. > :51:29.know she has all the talent and the ability to do this. All she has to

:51:30. > :51:35.do is put her arms out and fly. ? He said a lovely thing. Somebody asked

:51:36. > :51:40.him was he proud of me on the show. He said, I wasn't waiting on

:51:41. > :51:46.Strictly for me to be proud of her. I was just never proud of her. Thank

:51:47. > :51:51.you Sian. It's been lovely talking to you both. Thanks a million. He

:51:52. > :51:56.woos her every day. I bet every woman will be saying that. What

:51:57. > :52:01.about you? Brendan O'Carroll and his wife Jennifer. Good luck to her and

:52:02. > :52:07.Jennifer on Strictly, in honour of Brucie. She's my favourite. On

:52:08. > :52:12.Friday the Pope sent a delegation to Canterbury to take on the Anglicans.

:52:13. > :52:16.It was not a new rough between the two religious institutionings but a

:52:17. > :52:21.sporting challenge, as Chris Hollins explains. You can forget about

:52:22. > :52:25.rugby, football or tennis. Cricket is the ultimate sport. It is the the

:52:26. > :52:31.only sport you can play for five days and celebrate a draw. The only

:52:32. > :52:35.sport that requires laws, not rules. And it's the only sport that demands

:52:36. > :52:41.its participants play in the true spirit of the game. You have created

:52:42. > :52:45.us to strive for the best... Today it is hoped that cricket will bring

:52:46. > :52:50.together two sides that have been divided by boundaries for centuries.

:52:51. > :52:54.This is an historic cricket match between the Anglican Church and the

:52:55. > :53:01.Vatican. I think it is safe to say they were excited but also very

:53:02. > :53:06.nervous. Whenever we play cricket you have to play in the right

:53:07. > :53:13.spirit. Today requires that. It really does. We have to watch our

:53:14. > :53:18.language. Both sides, the Vatican are a great bunch of guys. We had

:53:19. > :53:24.dinner last night, Evensong in the Cathedral. We played in a

:53:25. > :53:29.competitive sport. Both sides want to win, but it will be fair

:53:30. > :53:34.placement I'm 41 and I'm playing the biggest game of my life. I hope you

:53:35. > :53:38.enjoy it. Thank you Chris.vy kind of you. The Vatican or St Peter's won

:53:39. > :53:43.the toss and decided to bat. This is the last game of their tour of

:53:44. > :53:46.light. They've been bowling people over as well as building

:53:47. > :53:49.relationships with the Church of England. It is a level playing

:53:50. > :53:54.field. It is fun. If it is fellowship. It is a chance to enjoy

:53:55. > :53:58.each other on utterly different terms than the very important

:53:59. > :54:00.discussions we have. Now we see each other in another way as players on

:54:01. > :54:10.the same field enjoying the same It is a match that's undoubtedly

:54:11. > :54:16.captured the imagination. It has also provided everyone involved an

:54:17. > :54:23.opportunity to pro moat the reedom Freedom Network, which is hoping to

:54:24. > :54:26.eradicate modern slavery and human trafficking. The Archbishop of

:54:27. > :54:37.Canterbury was there and the Pope is said to have blessed the team before

:54:38. > :54:44.they left Rome. A direct hilt was required. It is a tense match. The

:54:45. > :55:02.most marvellous atmosphere. The lights came on at the end as the

:55:03. > :55:09.match reached a very exciting climax.

:55:10. > :55:18.You've got two groups of people together who are training to be

:55:19. > :55:22.priests in the Anglican and Catholic Church. That's interesting in

:55:23. > :55:27.itself. They've really hit it off, so it is a good thing. The first of

:55:28. > :55:32.many of these games? I would like perhaps to go to Rome. It would be

:55:33. > :55:40.brilliant. I would be lovely to visit them. Great food and wine.

:55:41. > :55:45.Thank you. Thank you Chris. The all important result, the Church of

:55:46. > :55:50.England won by six You've been voting in our text and online vote

:55:51. > :55:54.today. The question, should aid in conflict zones be left to

:55:55. > :55:59.Government? Here is what you tooled us. 63% of you who voted said

:56:00. > :56:05.yes,ide should be left to Governments. 37% said no, it

:56:06. > :56:10.shouldn't. CJ, are you surprised? I am. I thought it would be much

:56:11. > :56:13.higher for the no vote. Is I support aid workers going into conflict

:56:14. > :56:17.zones. You've got the UN, the winner of the world's most own effectual

:56:18. > :56:22.organisation for the last five decades doing nothing. The European

:56:23. > :56:28.Rapid Reaction Force set up to try and counter that. Of course aid

:56:29. > :56:32.workers should go. In if they don't, nothing would get done. Tonne would

:56:33. > :56:38.be cross, no-one is here to defend them. We've been subjected to some

:56:39. > :56:41.horrible videos and people are reacting emotionally to what they've

:56:42. > :56:45.seen and closing down as a result. The truth is somewhere in the

:56:46. > :56:49.middle. Middle. It depends on the conflict. No-one should

:56:50. > :56:56.underestimate the brave works that workers do out there. That's it for

:56:57. > :57:00.this morning. Thanks to all my guests here in the studio and those

:57:01. > :57:02.who joined us from Newcastle, with Jim Knight and the cricketing

:57:03. > :57:06.clerics with Chris Hollins at Canterbury. We're back at the same

:57:07. > :57:10.time next Sunday, I do hope you'll join me. Were going out with a song,

:57:11. > :57:17.with Paul Ayres, who plays Jesus in Love Beyond. Here he is singing The

:57:18. > :57:22.Kingdom Of Heaven. Goodbye. Listen to my words, turn away from sin.

:57:23. > :57:26.Open up your heart, let the fullness of life pour in.

:57:27. > :57:33.Come and follow me, and turn your back on fear. Open up your hearts,

:57:34. > :57:38.the kingdom of Heaven is here. Listen to my words, turn away from

:57:39. > :57:43.sin. Open up your hearts, let the fullness of life pour in. Come and

:57:44. > :57:50.follow me, and turn your back on fear. Open up your hearts, the

:57:51. > :57:53.kingdom of Heaven is here. Before you say a word, don't turn

:57:54. > :57:57.your back. I know what you're thinking. He's just a crazy teacher

:57:58. > :58:00.with the same things to say in a different way. A teacher that talks

:58:01. > :58:04.but never listens. Pointing out your faults and sins. What I offer is

:58:05. > :58:08.life in abundance, not rules to obey.

:58:09. > :58:16.Blessed are the hungry and thirsty. Blessed are the pure in heart. For

:58:17. > :58:28.God will give them riches in Heaven. More than they could ever dream of.

:58:29. > :58:33.Listen to my words. Turn away from sin. Open up your hearts and let the

:58:34. > :58:36.fullness of life pour in. Come and follow me, and turn your

:58:37. > :58:45.back on fear. Open up your hearts, the kingdom of Heaven is here.

:58:46. > :58:48.Behind your smile is there a hole in your life as big as an ocean?

:58:49. > :58:51.Doesn't matter where you're from or what you've done, you can start

:58:52. > :59:00.again. Come start this journey with me, break the wheels in motion.

:59:01. > :59:01.Forget the who, what, why and when. Blessed are