:00:13. > :00:16.Welcome to Sunday Morning Live. Good morning, I'm Sian Williams.
:00:17. > :00:22.More women in the Cabinet, and the vote for women bishops has been won.
:00:23. > :00:25.Is it tokenism or a real shift in equality?
:00:26. > :00:28.Men and women are equal and therefore should have a crack at
:00:29. > :00:31.equal leadership. As the ground offensive in Gaza
:00:32. > :00:34.continues, can a peaceful resolution ever be found between Israel
:00:35. > :00:38.and the Palestinians? Gold for the boy abandoned in care -
:00:39. > :00:41.athlete Kriss Akabusi tells us And as this year's
:00:42. > :01:10.Commonwealth Games baton passes to Glasgow, we're there, with the city
:01:11. > :01:13.on its blocks, ready for the off. Yes, Sian. I'm
:01:14. > :01:24.in the heart of Glasgow, as the city celebrates the arrival
:01:25. > :01:43.of the Queen?s baton ready for It would be in George Square at
:01:44. > :01:45.midday. I will be talking to the people here about some of today's
:01:46. > :01:48.debates. Today's guests are on the starting
:01:49. > :01:52.line. Let's meet them. Saleyha Ahsan, an A doctor,
:01:53. > :01:56.a former Captain in the Royal Army and now presenter of Fast Tales,
:01:57. > :02:00.the stories behind Ramadan. Peter Hitchens,
:02:01. > :02:03.columnist for the Mail on Sunday, Ajmal Masroor,
:02:04. > :02:08.an imam who is currently writing a book about his journeys to
:02:09. > :02:11.Palestine and the holy land. And Angela Epstein,
:02:12. > :02:14.who describes herself as a mother, She's a freelance journalist who
:02:15. > :02:19.writes for The Jewish Chronicle We'd like to know what you think
:02:20. > :02:25.about today's topics, too. You can comment by phone, text,
:02:26. > :02:28.email or through Twitter, Phone calls cost up to 5p per
:02:29. > :02:33.minute from most landlines. Calls from mobiles may
:02:34. > :02:36.cost considerably more. Texts will be charged
:02:37. > :02:43.at your standard message rate. In the Government reshuffle,
:02:44. > :02:51.there were high-profile promotions But it was dismissed as tokenism
:02:52. > :02:57.by some and the Daily Mail caused a fuss by comparing the line-up to
:02:58. > :03:00.a Downing Street catwalk. Employment Minister Esther McVey
:03:01. > :03:04.described as a "thigh-flashing Elsewhere, the focus was on who
:03:05. > :03:09.would be allowed to wear a cassock. A piece of history was made with
:03:10. > :03:13.the vote to approve women bishops in the Church of England,
:03:14. > :03:16.a decision which led to dancing and singing at a meeting of the General
:03:17. > :03:38.Synod, the Church's governing body. they celebrated with champagne
:03:39. > :03:44.earlier this week, after the Church of England vote to allow women
:03:45. > :03:52.bishops. The motion has been carried in all 3 houses. Many couldn't
:03:53. > :03:57.believe the day had finally come. 27 years... For Amy Powis, the nuclear
:03:58. > :04:03.it at Shirley in Southampton, it has never been a better time to join the
:04:04. > :04:12.church. -- the new curate. I was crying with joy. I felt so accepted.
:04:13. > :04:16.For me, I felt like I finally have access to full leadership in the
:04:17. > :04:20.church of England. Amy believes that those who disagree with women in
:04:21. > :04:26.leadership roles should come and see them at work. I know so many people
:04:27. > :04:30.who are against women in leadership, but they know a women in
:04:31. > :04:35.leadership and they like how they do it. That is how we are going to
:04:36. > :04:38.change people's minds, come and see a woman lead and preach. I really
:04:39. > :04:44.hope and pray that through that you will see that this is their god
:04:45. > :04:48.ordained calling. For Amy, the recent vote has been about
:04:49. > :04:52.equality, not about 1 sex being better than the other. Colour-macro
:04:53. > :04:59.this is not about who is better. We deserve equal chances. As soon as we
:05:00. > :05:03.stop half of the population being able to access the leadership, that
:05:04. > :05:07.is not to the detriment of the church, it's to the detriment of the
:05:08. > :05:11.is not to the detriment of the country. She knows what life in the
:05:12. > :05:16.church means. Her father is a bigger. My dad is a brilliant vicar.
:05:17. > :05:24.He had influenced my choices but I will be a very different vicar than
:05:25. > :05:30.he will. She was ordained and it was a very proud and moving moment. He
:05:31. > :05:34.feels women bring a lot to leadership roles. 1 of the things
:05:35. > :05:37.that women are more inclined is to be genuinely interested in others
:05:38. > :05:42.and listen to what they say rather than just waiting for the next piece
:05:43. > :05:46.of silence to share their own personal brilliance. Perhaps they
:05:47. > :05:50.are more collaborative. There is an inclination by women to listen
:05:51. > :05:55.carefully and care more about what other people think and feel, which
:05:56. > :06:00.can only be good for leadership. So does the chance of becoming a bishop
:06:01. > :06:05.appeal to her? I am 3 weeks in, shall we see how it goes!
:06:06. > :06:08.The views of the newly ordained Amy Powis, now the Reverend Amy Powis.
:06:09. > :06:10.She clearly sees a bright future ahead.
:06:11. > :06:12.But what of other women in the Church, state and society?
:06:13. > :06:15.That's the question for our text and online vote this week.
:06:16. > :06:22.Text the word VOTE followed by YES or NO to 81771.
:06:23. > :06:24.Texts will be charged at your standard message rate.
:06:25. > :06:30.Go online to vote for free at bbc.co.uk/sundaymorninglive.
:06:31. > :06:33.Terms and conditions can also be found online.
:06:34. > :06:40.Results will be announced at the end of the show.
:06:41. > :06:49.Lets talk to Angela 1st. We heard what Reverend Amy was saying. She
:06:50. > :06:55.said it is a positive move. Something you agree with? Women
:06:56. > :07:00.bishops does not immediately resonate in my life, but what I
:07:01. > :07:05.would say, as a woman, I up or anything that smacks of tokenism. We
:07:06. > :07:10.talked about what make a great leader. -- I hate anything that
:07:11. > :07:13.smacks of tokenism. If somebody has integrity and experience, wisdom, it
:07:14. > :07:17.doesn't really matter whether they were born with a womb or not. The
:07:18. > :07:23.problem in modern society, there is a clamour in every strata for men
:07:24. > :07:27.and women to be equal. Men and women are not equal, we are different and
:07:28. > :07:33.that brings different things to the clichedd table. Just because a man
:07:34. > :07:36.is better equipped to do a role, it doesn't denigrate the role of a
:07:37. > :07:43.woman, she would be better at something else. I can't understand
:07:44. > :07:50.the idea of female quotas. How would I know as a woman if I got the job
:07:51. > :07:54.because I am wearing a skirt or not? Angela seems to think it is
:07:55. > :08:00.tokenism. Women and men are not equal, she says they are just
:08:01. > :08:05.different. It boils down to, do you have the right qualities? Sam Hurst
:08:06. > :08:12.is a year-long commissioning course, the motto is, serve to lead. --
:08:13. > :08:17.Sandhurst. Do you have leadership qualities to develop and grow? That
:08:18. > :08:22.is men or women. Throughout history, there have been great leaders,
:08:23. > :08:29.politically, religiously, in all sorts of domains. Historically. Now,
:08:30. > :08:35.with the current story about women bishops, I think it's fabulous that
:08:36. > :08:41.they were even able to bring it to the table, to discuss it, to debate
:08:42. > :08:46.it. You saw the huge discussions. Are they just paying lip service to
:08:47. > :08:51.it? With only a 3rd of the clergy women, is it just tokenism? No,
:08:52. > :08:57.because it is the women themselves who have been driving it. The women
:08:58. > :09:01.are saying, we feel this is our birthright and they have fought for
:09:02. > :09:06.it. Therefore, they themselves have felt they have the qualities to
:09:07. > :09:13.bring forward. Is this a change you can envisage in other religions? I
:09:14. > :09:17.don't think in is and it is the same. The Christian church has a
:09:18. > :09:22.hierarchy and it is very important in the structure, in Islamic we all
:09:23. > :09:33.have a direct relationship with God, you don't have to go to an imam. You
:09:34. > :09:37.have female imams? Women can be anything they want, and imam is
:09:38. > :09:43.nothing more than a functional. A Muslim woman could be the leader,
:09:44. > :10:05.the president, the prime Minister, a theologian. But not leading players?
:10:06. > :10:09.It is a functional role of leading prayers. It doesn't make any
:10:10. > :10:15.difference to how close to God you are or not. It is very different. I
:10:16. > :10:21.agree with Angela about how it should be based on merit rather than
:10:22. > :10:28.a tick box exercise. If you make a quota, you create a problem. But
:10:29. > :10:32.there is the other side of the debate, there is not a level playing
:10:33. > :10:36.field, maybe some positive action is needed to create a level playing
:10:37. > :10:39.field so that women have the same opportunity as men so they can
:10:40. > :10:44.compete at the same level and therefore they may have the same
:10:45. > :10:48.job. Positive action, but of course positive discrimination in this
:10:49. > :10:53.country is illegal. Peter, is this something you could see happening in
:10:54. > :10:58.politics? There was a fuss made of the number of female ministers in
:10:59. > :11:02.the Cabinet with the reshuffle. It's a dead issue, I don't think
:11:03. > :11:07.anyone argues any more that women are capable of doing almost all of
:11:08. > :11:11.the jobs that men do. It was resolved decades ago. The question
:11:12. > :11:16.in the Church of England is a different 1. They could have had
:11:17. > :11:19.women bishops years ago if the supporters had not been determined
:11:20. > :11:23.to have a total unconditional surrender from their opponents. He
:11:24. > :11:27.wanted to grind their faces in the dust and get them to say that they
:11:28. > :11:31.were wrong. -- they wanted. It is only because they wouldn't do that
:11:32. > :11:38.that it dragged on for so long. It is slightly wrong to portray the
:11:39. > :11:43.church as a career. If somebody goes into the ministry, they are
:11:44. > :11:48.abandoning a career... It is a vocation rather than a career? The
:11:49. > :11:53.fact that women can become bishops is a matter for dancing and breaking
:11:54. > :11:59.open bottles of fake champagne... It is never real champagne! It is
:12:00. > :12:02.absurd to me. It's not about that. If you become a minister, you
:12:03. > :12:05.shouldn't be harbouring ambitions for higher posts. Most of the people
:12:06. > :12:12.with higher posts end up feeling rather put upon. It isn't about
:12:13. > :12:17.that. I am baffled we are still discussing it. What interests me is
:12:18. > :12:21.that there is still even so a very strong, powerful force behind this
:12:22. > :12:26.constant portrayal of society as if it was still deeply unequal. Women
:12:27. > :12:30.are supposed to be blasting their way through a nonexistent glass
:12:31. > :12:34.ceiling. The only thing which is making a difference is the fact that
:12:35. > :12:44.women still insist on being the only sex which has children. This alters
:12:45. > :12:48.their whole lives. This... It seems to me to be so blazingly obvious
:12:49. > :12:55.that if you bear children you are different from somebody who
:12:56. > :12:58.doesn't... That doesn't limit your ability... The ability to bear
:12:59. > :13:07.children does not influence your ability to hold down a job. I didn't
:13:08. > :13:13.say it did. You think it does. Why do you think it does? To overrule on
:13:14. > :13:19.the child-bearing thing, but having been there, four times, I would say
:13:20. > :13:23.that women... We have a doctor who could substantiate the biology of
:13:24. > :13:27.this, we are physically different. We become a cocktail of boiling
:13:28. > :13:32.hormones after we become babies. That doesn't make us any less
:13:33. > :13:35.capable intellectually doing a job but it may completely fracture our
:13:36. > :13:39.perspective in terms of what we may have wanted before. In terms of
:13:40. > :13:44.women bishops, we haven't touched on the issue of tradition. In order for
:13:45. > :13:49.religion to survive, Christianity, is lamb Judaism, we gift tradition
:13:50. > :13:58.from generation to generation. -- is lamb. We have to be respectful of
:13:59. > :14:02.tradition. Would you like the Queen to wear a pair of trousers at the
:14:03. > :14:08.State opening of Parliament? Would it bother you? I think it would.
:14:09. > :14:12.There is no clamour in Orthodox Judaism for women to become rabbis,
:14:13. > :14:24.and women are lauded in Orthodox Judaism. Hello, Alison in Glasgow. I
:14:25. > :14:29.am joined by the only female taxi driver, female Asian taxi driver in
:14:30. > :14:34.Glasgow. Do you think his Mrs would benefit from having more female taxi
:14:35. > :14:39.drivers? Definitely, women feel more comfortable. As soon as they jump in
:14:40. > :14:41.the taxi, they are very happy. They sit in the back and they say they
:14:42. > :14:51.are more comfortable and happy, feeling safer. I would like women to
:14:52. > :14:58.pick us up at night, they say to me. They feel more comfortable.
:14:59. > :15:02.Definitely. It is a very male dominated environment. What about
:15:03. > :15:08.male taxi drivers' reaction to you? Some of them just look at me,
:15:09. > :15:12.smile, drive off. Some of them won't acknowledge me. Some have said they
:15:13. > :15:21.are proud of what I am doing, hats off to you, and that is really good.
:15:22. > :15:28.I am joined by the founder of a Mum 's website, Mindful Mums. What is
:15:29. > :15:35.your thought on how society values women who stay at home? I don't like
:15:36. > :15:41.the term stay at home, women looking after children are working, it is a
:15:42. > :15:44.physically demanding job involves tenacity and patients. I don't think
:15:45. > :15:48.women at home should feel pressured to go back to work because there are
:15:49. > :15:51.more women in the Cabinet or because the media says there should be more
:15:52. > :15:55.women at work. It is an important role and they have an enormous
:15:56. > :15:59.contribution to society raising the next generation. There are a lot of
:16:00. > :16:04.working women who would love to be at home with children. It is a very
:16:05. > :16:10.important role. It is still a dilemma for women? It is, and
:16:11. > :16:15.economic 1. It is not looking at women in the Cabinet, the media. It
:16:16. > :16:20.comes down to economics. If you need to pay your mortgage, you have to go
:16:21. > :16:24.to work. Society needs to value the actual work women do at home looking
:16:25. > :16:28.after children. Whether that be through remuneration... It's a
:16:29. > :16:32.different way of looking at it. Women certainly shouldn't feel
:16:33. > :16:36.pressure and working women really value what they are doing. A lot of
:16:37. > :16:41.women at home see it as their career, but they have the choice. I
:16:42. > :16:57.think it's very important that they are valued. More from George Square
:16:58. > :17:00.later. And world. You have operated in a male environment, because you
:17:01. > :17:05.were in the military. Did you find that your agenda helped or hindered?
:17:06. > :17:11.By the time I'd got to Sandhurst, the course was mixed and we were
:17:12. > :17:16.integrated. There was not a shorter e-mail course in some distant part
:17:17. > :17:25.of the Academy. We were all doing the same thing. I would not have
:17:26. > :17:29.gone had it not been that way. In 1996, it was a few years into that
:17:30. > :17:38.pattern. At the end of the day, you have a task to do and the men were
:17:39. > :17:43.feeling as well as women on certain tasks. It was if you had the right
:17:44. > :17:48.tenacity, the right personality, the right target Aleem Maqbool skills to
:17:49. > :17:50.deal with the task. I can agree with Peter. And would love to get to the
:17:51. > :17:53.point where we are no longer discussing this, just getting on
:17:54. > :18:03.with it. It is a shame that in 2014, 100 years ago they were debating
:18:04. > :18:07.whether women should be doctors. It is almost no half and half in the
:18:08. > :18:11.profession and predicted to overtake. And that is just down to
:18:12. > :18:19.you as an individual, whether you are the right person for the job.
:18:20. > :18:22.Why would love there to be no such thing as the one and only female
:18:23. > :18:27.taxi driver in Glasgow. Why would like it not to be an issue. But it
:18:28. > :18:30.still is an issue. And when we are considering women going into the
:18:31. > :18:38.Cabinet, with the Daily Mail talking about Esther McVeigh sashaying into
:18:39. > :18:41.Downing Street, her blonde mean Sean thrown back like a shampoo advert,
:18:42. > :18:52.nobody is talking about her ability to hold down a brief. That was in
:18:53. > :18:55.the Daily Mail. I'm not surprised. I'm asking Peter, who works for the
:18:56. > :18:59.Daily Mail. Why work for the Mail. Why work for the Mail on Sunday,
:19:00. > :19:03.which is a separate newspaper. Is that line typified the media
:19:04. > :19:07.approach towards women who work in politics? It is certainly what David
:19:08. > :19:11.Cameron wanted to see in the papers. Is it? Of course it is. He is a PR
:19:12. > :19:17.man who has gone briefly into politics. He has hired one of the
:19:18. > :19:22.most skilful PR men in the world, Lynton Crosby, to save his bacon. He
:19:23. > :19:27.longed to see those pictures. I have no doubt that over the course of
:19:28. > :19:30.choosing the female members of his government, he thought about their
:19:31. > :19:34.appearance. Not the faintest question that this was not going
:19:35. > :19:38.through his mind. And women think about that as well. I have no doubt
:19:39. > :19:44.that that is what the government want. It is about misogyny. It must
:19:45. > :19:47.be put a rated from our society once and for all, and women must be paid
:19:48. > :19:53.for the job they do at home looking after children. Thank you very much.
:19:54. > :19:56.Our vote is still open. The question, does having women leaders
:19:57. > :20:02.matter? Remember, you can only vote once. And here are the details. If
:20:03. > :20:03.you think it does, text the word 'VOTE' followed by 'YES' -- if you
:20:04. > :20:07.think it doesn't, text 'VOTE' followed by 'NO'. Our text number is
:20:08. > :20:15.81771. Texts will be charged at the standard rate. You have 20 minutes
:20:16. > :20:18.before the vote closes. You can also vote online. Results announced in
:20:19. > :20:24.about five minutes before the end of the programme. Still to come, Kriss
:20:25. > :20:27.Akabusi on breaking records and that memorable laugh.
:20:28. > :20:27.the programme. Still to come, Kriss Akabusi on breaking records My word!
:20:28. > :20:38.I don't believe it! All right! Israel's continuing
:20:39. > :20:40.its ground operation in the Gaza Strip this morning against
:20:41. > :20:47.the Palestinian group Hamas. 300 Palestinians -
:20:48. > :20:54.most of them civilians - have died. Five Israeli soldiers have also
:20:55. > :20:56.died. Israel says it has
:20:57. > :20:58.a right to defend itself against Hamas rockets - something
:20:59. > :21:00.President Obama backed yesterday. Now the UN Secretary General Ban Ki
:21:01. > :21:03.Moon is there, trying to mediate between the two sides, end the
:21:04. > :21:13.violence and find a way forward. Israel says military action on the
:21:14. > :21:20.ground is aimed at destroying the network of tunnels used by Hamas to
:21:21. > :21:24.attack and infiltrate the country. The action follows ten days of air
:21:25. > :21:26.strikes and the Israeli Prime Minister says there will be a
:21:27. > :21:34.significant expansion to the latest offensive. Inflation back --
:21:35. > :21:37.TRANSLATION: My instruction to the army, with the approval of the
:21:38. > :21:42.security cabinet, is to prepare for a possibility of a significant
:21:43. > :21:47.widening of the ground operation. The chief of staff is prepared
:21:48. > :21:50.accordingly. Hamas says that Israel will pay a high price for its
:21:51. > :21:55.actions and one Palestinian father who lost a child rejected the
:21:56. > :22:03.Israeli leadership statement that they are not targeting civilians.
:22:04. > :22:07.TRANSLATION: Is he going to compensate us for our children? Will
:22:08. > :22:12.he bring them back? He gives orders to his army with his right hand and
:22:13. > :22:17.offers peace with his left hand. There is bitterness in Israel, too.
:22:18. > :22:29.This is the funeral of a man who died in a mortar attack. Attempts to
:22:30. > :22:35.broker a permanent cease-fire has so far failed with claim and
:22:36. > :22:38.counterclaim on both sides. The only thing that is certain is that as
:22:39. > :22:46.long as the conflict continues, there will be more grief and
:22:47. > :22:52.casualties. Philip Hammond has been talking about the crisis in Gaza.
:22:53. > :22:54.Speaking on the Andrew Marr programme just a few moments ago, he
:22:55. > :22:59.said that all sides needed to work together to achieve a long-term
:23:00. > :23:03.solution. We cannot deal with Gaza by having a flare-up every two
:23:04. > :23:08.years, hundreds of people killed and another cease-fire which then breaks
:23:09. > :23:14.down two years later. We have to get to the underlying courses and
:23:15. > :23:17.re-establish the roles of the Palestinian authority and the
:23:18. > :23:25.government of Gaza, and get some order out of this case. It's a
:23:26. > :23:29.long-term solution, as he was suggesting, achievable? -- is a
:23:30. > :23:34.long-term solution. It is not achievable under the current
:23:35. > :23:38.circumstances with the theology of hatred on both sides. We cannot have
:23:39. > :23:43.a peaceful solution if we are interested in telling one another.
:23:44. > :23:47.But look at the crisis. We have 350 Palestinians killed and more than
:23:48. > :23:52.70% of those are innocent people. More than 70 children killed, four
:23:53. > :23:56.it's playing football on a beach were targeted by two missiles and
:23:57. > :24:00.obliterated. It is not an action of anyone who is civilised. As long as
:24:01. > :24:05.this continues, there will be no peace. The only way we can achieve
:24:06. > :24:10.Nice in the future is if there is an international broker who is
:24:11. > :24:19.objective and is not capitulating to the lobby constantly. And if the
:24:20. > :24:23.Gentiles do not constantly blackmail -- and if the Gentiles are not
:24:24. > :24:27.Consigli blackmailed for the Holocaust in Europe. You're using
:24:28. > :24:30.language. Is the problem not when both sides are very emotive
:24:31. > :24:40.language, that there cannot be any movement towards coming together.
:24:41. > :24:44.But that is not factually correct. Allow me, if I'm me. It is the
:24:45. > :24:47.Israeli dream to live peaceably alongside Arab neighbours, but ever
:24:48. > :24:55.since before the foundation of the state, whenever the Arabs have been
:24:56. > :24:58.offered a two state solution, partition in 1947, it has been
:24:59. > :25:04.rejected. Israel has constantly offered to hand back territory, land
:25:05. > :25:08.it has claimed in combat when it has been attacked. It has been rejected
:25:09. > :25:15.by the Arabs. Benjamin Netanyahu said this week that while these
:25:16. > :25:20.Israelis use missiles to protect their citizens, Hamas uses its
:25:21. > :25:25.citizens to protect its missiles. It is alive. It is not alive. I have
:25:26. > :25:35.family in Israel. Don't poke me, please. I'm sorry. When you start
:25:36. > :25:39.saying it is about the Holocaust, it is not fair. We are not blackmailing
:25:40. > :25:43.you because of the Holocaust. Holocaust proves that the Jews had
:25:44. > :25:47.nowhere else that could take them other than a Jewish homeland. That
:25:48. > :25:52.befuddled the question. The issue is that Israel is not attacking, it is
:25:53. > :25:56.reacting. Its citizens are arbitrarily subjected to missile
:25:57. > :26:02.attacks. My son was caught in it. Hamas does not warn before it fires
:26:03. > :26:09.missiles. Israel warns the citizens of Gaza. Another is a lot of anger
:26:10. > :26:13.and passion on both sides. It is very important... What we're trying
:26:14. > :26:19.to do is to say that this is where we are currently. Peter, how do we
:26:20. > :26:27.get from this level of anger and passion on both sides? How do we
:26:28. > :26:30.move towards a sustainable peace? These are constant lies. It is
:26:31. > :26:34.unbelievable. You might do it by neither side seeking at utopian
:26:35. > :26:41.solution. Both sides recognising that they cannot get everything they
:26:42. > :26:45.want. There is a strong movement in Israel for compromise and for...
:26:46. > :26:54.Israel has twice given up large parts of land, and I have no doubt
:26:55. > :27:00.all, because have travelled there are lot, I have no doubt that there
:27:01. > :27:05.is a strong desire among individual Arabs for some sort of compromise
:27:06. > :27:08.but I am afraid that while Israel is open to political discussion, the
:27:09. > :27:11.Arab world is not. Anyone whose peaks out in favour of calm demise
:27:12. > :27:17.is rapidly sidelined. I think we have to think more seriously about
:27:18. > :27:22.abandoning attempts for an ideal solution and obtaining, above all,
:27:23. > :27:27.it peaceful coexistence on the ground. Much more contact between
:27:28. > :27:32.Israelis and Arabs, which used to exist before the peace process began
:27:33. > :27:35.to stop Arabs and Israelis live side-by-side and worked in each
:27:36. > :27:38.other's territory must talk to each other and knew each other's
:27:39. > :27:45.languages, watched each other's television and were more in contact.
:27:46. > :27:51.That has been lost as far as I'm concerned since this catastrophic
:27:52. > :27:57.attempt at an imposed peace. Peaceful coexistence... Whether...
:27:58. > :28:04.It needs to be combined with economic advance. There has already
:28:05. > :28:10.been quite a lot of this. Several of the Arab countries, notably the
:28:11. > :28:14.United Arab Emirates, have made audible efforts to improve the
:28:15. > :28:19.living conditions of Gaza. Gaza could be like to buy if it was not
:28:20. > :28:22.used as a hostage for people who seek political advantage. We need to
:28:23. > :28:26.start looking for political advantage and if you genuinely care
:28:27. > :28:29.about the fate of the people, women and children in that area, that is
:28:30. > :28:34.what you must do. This propaganda has to stop. You have been to the
:28:35. > :28:40.area as well. Do you agree with what Peter says? Does it need to be taken
:28:41. > :28:43.from organisations, from international countries trying to
:28:44. > :28:46.get involved in the peace process? Should go back to the people on the
:28:47. > :28:49.ground who would like to see a peaceful solution? The way that
:28:50. > :28:54.things are progressing this year, there was a lasting Heath unity
:28:55. > :29:01.government that was proposed and we were moving towards that. And then
:29:02. > :29:03.it always seems that when there... UC clues that people want to talk,
:29:04. > :29:08.that they are wanting to UC clues that people want to talk,
:29:09. > :29:14.and then something happens that pushes them together. Watching
:29:15. > :29:18.harrowing reports this week, when you have taken away someone's
:29:19. > :29:21.child, when you have destroyed their home, what else have they got to
:29:22. > :29:34.do? What else can they do except resist? We are talking about... It
:29:35. > :29:39.is my turn. Yes, there is leadership on the ground, and the people voted
:29:40. > :29:45.for Hamas. Like it or not, they did. They had a democratic situation and
:29:46. > :29:47.they voted for Hamas. That is it. Deal with it. Rather than
:29:48. > :29:54.undermining it and attacking it. Yes, there is the Palestinian
:29:55. > :29:58.Authority. These two entities have great differences. They have
:29:59. > :30:04.realised that they do not want people to continue to suffer. I was
:30:05. > :30:10.out there for six months in 2002 and I really believe in going to
:30:11. > :30:15.experience the situation yourself before you make opinions. Living in
:30:16. > :30:20.an environment where there are tanks circling around where you are living
:30:21. > :30:24.is terrifying. Not knowing where the next shell is coming from, I can see
:30:25. > :30:34.where the hatred comes from on both sides. Angela, you talked about
:30:35. > :30:40.having family in the region. Saleyha you talked about having people on
:30:41. > :30:50.the ground. Ban Ki-Moon is going to be mediating and somehow come up
:30:51. > :30:57.with... How is he going to do that? We have to remind people about the
:30:58. > :31:08.history. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and handed over thousands of
:31:09. > :31:13.greenhouse is... Hang on. Land, sea, surrounding Gaza for so many
:31:14. > :31:21.years... We are trying to look to the future. We are where we are,
:31:22. > :31:30.right? Without going back for claim and counterclaim... A very nice
:31:31. > :31:35.attitude to have. How does Ban Ki-Moon mediate between the two
:31:36. > :31:40.sides? When you have this level of passion and anger? Israel wants to
:31:41. > :31:44.have a peaceable existence. As Golda Meir famously said, there will only
:31:45. > :31:50.be peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us. We
:31:51. > :31:54.have to avoid the extremist view. Gaza had an opportunity in 2005 to
:31:55. > :31:59.be a commercial success and, as Peter said, it became a political
:32:00. > :32:03.tool. I have family who live near the West Bank. I see Israeli Arabs
:32:04. > :32:09.mixing with Israelis happily. My late mum was treated in a Jerusalem
:32:10. > :32:19.hospital by a fabulous Arab doctor... Let me ask Ajmal
:32:20. > :32:27.Let's try to get something positive out of this debate. Both Saleyha and
:32:28. > :32:33.you have said that on the ground Palestinians and Israelis can work
:32:34. > :32:37.together quite happily. They did for hundreds of years. How do we move
:32:38. > :32:43.from that position on the ground and apply it to society as a whole? If
:32:44. > :32:47.you ask me bluntly and simply, create one state for all, not two
:32:48. > :32:56.states. That further exhaust breaks the separation. My own state. I
:32:57. > :33:00.believe the Jews have all the right to live and exist, but the current
:33:01. > :33:05.problem is the philosophy that underpins the existence of the
:33:06. > :33:13.ideals... I have said it before, I would like a third-party broker, not
:33:14. > :33:18.America... Who would it be? Not Britain or America, they are the
:33:19. > :33:21.culprits. The Arabs, Jews, the Muslims lived side-by-side before
:33:22. > :33:28.the of Israel, to me, a third-party, even like someone like Desmond Tutu,
:33:29. > :33:36.anybody. Nelson Mandela was an amazing man. Get a mediator... A
:33:37. > :33:42.peaceful person who doesn't have an economic interest or an military
:33:43. > :33:49.interest in the area. A third-party mediators who doesn't have a
:33:50. > :33:53.connection with either side. And end of a conflict in which something is
:33:54. > :33:59.agreed, I don't believe any leader of Israel could agree a deal that
:34:00. > :34:02.would be acceptable to the Arabs and not be driven from office in Israel
:34:03. > :34:09.and I don't believe any Arab leader could do likewise. It's not
:34:10. > :34:14.possible. It's futile. It's 30 years of trying to get an ideal solution
:34:15. > :34:21.which has led us to this awful position. A colleague of mine, an
:34:22. > :34:25.Arab-Israeli, as we navigated past the holeable walls of Allah a the
:34:26. > :34:33.years ago, he said, how I longed for the g'day all days before peace. --
:34:34. > :34:40.the holeable walls of Rome Allah, he said, how I long for peace. I am a
:34:41. > :34:46.very strong supporter of the State of Israel's right to exist as a
:34:47. > :34:55.Jewish state. I utterly condemn the Israeli attack on Gaza. I think it
:34:56. > :35:00.is futile and wrong. It doesn't defend Israel from Hamas rockets.
:35:01. > :35:05.That is a very poor taste. Many more Israelis should say to their
:35:06. > :35:08.government, this is not in any way a defence of Israel. The future of
:35:09. > :35:14.Israel is not being won in the Borders, it is being won and lost on
:35:15. > :35:22.television screens. Every time a child dies in Gaza, the case for
:35:23. > :35:29.Israel is weakened. I agree. Just because there hasn't been a huge
:35:30. > :35:34.body count in Israel... It would not excuse it if there had. We are not
:35:35. > :35:39.going into casualty numbers, I would like to end on something we all
:35:40. > :35:42.agree on, which is what Peter said, on the ground perhaps where the
:35:43. > :35:53.movement might happen rather than imposition. I saw a lovely picture
:35:54. > :35:57.today about Israel. There was a demonstration, on one side Israelis
:35:58. > :36:03.saying, stop the bombing of Gaza, and the other side in support. And
:36:04. > :36:06.that was in Israel. Wherein the Arab world would you ever see a
:36:07. > :36:13.demonstration saying, stop the Hamas rockets? If Moses and Mohammed were
:36:14. > :36:23.alive today, they would embrace as brothers, not fight. Thank you very
:36:24. > :36:30.much. We have to... This bitterness, this anger, this resentment, this
:36:31. > :36:33.hatred. I know there is a lot of anger and passion on both sides. I
:36:34. > :36:39.thank you for the discussion but we have to move on. Still to come: Can
:36:40. > :36:47.you go fast if you are fasting? Let's turn to a sporting event that
:36:48. > :36:53.would be very much on Let's turn to a sporting event that
:36:54. > :36:56.week. On Wednesday, Let's turn to a sporting event that
:36:57. > :37:02.world will be on Glasgow as the Commonwealth Games begins. The
:37:03. > :37:07.Queen's baton is going through the streets of Glasgow now. An athlete
:37:08. > :37:12.who knows the thrill of his crossing the finishing line is Kriss Akabusi.
:37:13. > :37:22.Let's look back at his life on and off the track. Akabusi is the last
:37:23. > :37:28.walk back to the blocks. Chris began his international athletic career
:37:29. > :37:33.more than 40 years ago. He has won 12 medals. In 1990, he cemented his
:37:34. > :37:37.place as one of the world's best hurdlers taking gold in both the
:37:38. > :37:43.European Championships and the Commonwealth Games. It's gold one
:37:44. > :37:48.Akabusi! During his years as an athlete, he said his success was
:37:49. > :37:53.down to more than ability and training. I am so happy, I thank God
:37:54. > :37:57.for that. His achievements came after a difficult childhood, much of
:37:58. > :38:02.it spent in care after being abandoned by his parents when they
:38:03. > :38:08.returned to Nigeria. He joined the Army at 16 and it wasn't there his
:38:09. > :38:11.athletic ability was spotted. That led him to individual track success
:38:12. > :38:15.and gold with the British relay team at the World Championships in 1991
:38:16. > :38:22.after a heart stopping final stretch. He is fighting back!
:38:23. > :38:30.Akabusi has made it! Akabusi, gold for Britain. After retiring from
:38:31. > :38:36.athletics, he became a recognisable face on television, in particular on
:38:37. > :38:39.the series Record Breakers. He was known for his infectious humour and
:38:40. > :38:50.We have done it! I think Kriss go.
:38:51. > :38:53.We have done it! I think Kriss walked here today, rather safer!
:38:54. > :39:03.Lovely to see you. Thank you. You walked here today, rather safer!
:39:04. > :39:10.Every time I see you, you laugh. Where do you get that from? But
:39:11. > :39:14.Sian, when I go back to Nigeria, I see replicas of me all over the
:39:15. > :39:18.place, sometimes laughing, arms all over the place. I am nothing special
:39:19. > :39:25.or different in Nigeria, it is just over here in the UK. An energetic
:39:26. > :39:30.person. Who laughs a lot. We don't have much in this country. You had a
:39:31. > :39:35.particularly difficult upbringing. I remember talking to you on BBC
:39:36. > :39:40.breakfast in 2009. You spoke about moving from foster home to foster
:39:41. > :39:43.home. In some of them, you received some very difficult treatment, you
:39:44. > :39:49.and your brother went through some hard times. Your life is your life.
:39:50. > :39:54.I wouldn't want to change any part of it. My mother and father, they
:39:55. > :40:01.wanted to do the best for me. They were students in this country. At
:40:02. > :40:05.four, they left me. And my brother. It was part of a fostering
:40:06. > :40:10.arrangement. They went back to their country of origin. Part and parcel
:40:11. > :40:15.of a nation-building process. But having gone there, there was a Civil
:40:16. > :40:19.War and in that Civil War, all of the money that was coming to take
:40:20. > :40:23.care of us dried up. My brother and I, as you said, a variety of foster
:40:24. > :40:31.homes. Some word of the best quality. -- some weren't of the best
:40:32. > :40:37.quality. But I had a wonderful period of time in a children's home
:40:38. > :40:41.in north London, in Enfield. I am grateful for that. I wonder whether
:40:42. > :40:45.that was the thing that really helped you move on and changed your
:40:46. > :40:51.attitude towards life, developed your attitude towards life, which is
:40:52. > :40:55.unremittingly positive. Well, I have got a brother, he is my junior, we
:40:56. > :40:59.both went through the same experience. Unfortunately for him,
:41:00. > :41:03.it didn't turn out very well. I do recognise this nature-nurture
:41:04. > :41:11.debate, but there was something inside me that helped me see the
:41:12. > :41:14.positive side of life. Was that faith's you did pray when you are
:41:15. > :41:22.going through your athletics career. -- was that faith? You did pray
:41:23. > :41:26.during your athletics career. It was at the Commonwealth Games that I
:41:27. > :41:31.first picked up the Bible, the new Testament, for myself. Obviously you
:41:32. > :41:37.have seen it at school. I opened it up and began reading. I met the
:41:38. > :41:45.person Jesus in there. I was really excited, the book of Mark, it's
:41:46. > :41:52.vibrant and colourful. I got really drawn into that story. It was a year
:41:53. > :41:56.later I was in California, name-drop, Roger Black, Derek
:41:57. > :42:05.Redmond, Daley Thompson, and I rushed down the track and I went,
:42:06. > :42:10.guys, I met Jesus! Daley he said, Akabusi, you are on drugs! I was
:42:11. > :42:15.excited about the change it made on my life. Do you still have that
:42:16. > :42:22.faith? I have faith, but nowhere near what it was in the day. Why?
:42:23. > :42:28.Life happens to you. You get perspective. Back then, I was very
:42:29. > :42:34.strict and almost Tony and in my belief. Now I recognise the floors
:42:35. > :42:41.in me. -- almost Draconian in my belief. Somebody other than myself
:42:42. > :42:48.is able to take me across to the other side. Is that still God? God
:42:49. > :42:53.is such a difficult term. I do believe in a being, Alpha, oh mega,
:42:54. > :43:00.the Northern Star, all of that language. I would call myself an
:43:01. > :43:05.existentialist. I have got theological faith in that
:43:06. > :43:10.perspective. I wonder if you were to deliver, I have seen you as a
:43:11. > :43:13.motivational speaker, if you were to deliver a motivational speech to
:43:14. > :43:18.those who are now lining up at the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow,
:43:19. > :43:22.whether they have a faith or no faith, and thinking about the finish
:43:23. > :43:27.line... What sort of things would you be saying to them? You know what
:43:28. > :43:32.it is like. First and foremost, these are the days. It's not
:43:33. > :43:37.tomorrow, it is now. Embrace this moment, passion, pride, can-do
:43:38. > :43:41.attitude, express yourself in all your glory, you have worked hard for
:43:42. > :43:46.this moment, don't let it go by, focus on your goal, dream big and
:43:47. > :43:53.have some fun. It's a great life and it's over like that. All of a
:43:54. > :44:00.sudden, you are like Akabusi, a fat juicy Wales, just talking about it!
:44:01. > :44:04.Enjoy it. It's lovely to see you, and you have dressed so wonderfully
:44:05. > :44:07.for us. I liked your shirt. Just want to show you something from the
:44:08. > :44:21.past when you were also looking rather lovely. You want to be a
:44:22. > :44:25.Record Breakers! Thanks very much. You have been voting on our
:44:26. > :44:33.question, does having women leaders matter? The vote is closing now. We
:44:34. > :44:36.will bring you the result at the end of the programme. As we have been
:44:37. > :44:40.talking about the Commonwealth Games, a huge challenge for all
:44:41. > :44:45.athletes. What about those who are not able to eat or drink during the
:44:46. > :44:48.day? It's Ramadan, a time for Muslims to spend a month they will
:44:49. > :44:51.adjust purification and contemplation and they are required
:44:52. > :44:57.to spend 19 hours of daylight fasting. How boomers limb athletes
:44:58. > :45:03.prepare for sporting endurance? On of our Parliament -- how do Muslim
:45:04. > :45:19.athletes prepare for endurance? Here is one of our experts visiting a
:45:20. > :45:27.gym. A Day on. And people right now, who have been fasting all day. I am
:45:28. > :45:39.pretty amazed. Where are they getting their energy? Two minutes to
:45:40. > :45:42.wipe yourselves down. If you want to get some fluids, go for it. If you
:45:43. > :45:49.are fasting, don't worry, you have a wee while left to go. I've noticed
:45:50. > :45:56.that even when you said to go and get a drink of water, even those not
:45:57. > :46:04.fasting do not tend to. It is like at work, people do not eat in front
:46:05. > :46:07.of us. I have probably not pushed it as hard as I'm normally would
:46:08. > :46:11.because I have got it in the back of my mind that I have been fasting all
:46:12. > :46:21.day. But I survived it and do not feel terrible. Ideal refreshed and
:46:22. > :46:27.not hungry. -- I feel. I feel hot more than thirsty. I feel like I
:46:28. > :46:39.could really dive into a swimming pool. What of the sports men and
:46:40. > :46:43.women competing at the highest level when there are medals and national
:46:44. > :46:47.pride at stake? Do they have to choose between glory and God or
:46:48. > :46:55.should faith always come first? Angela, it is a tough one. If you
:46:56. > :46:58.are sincere about your faith, you have to consider the choices that
:46:59. > :47:03.you make in life. Either you say you're going to have to Coppermine
:47:04. > :47:05.is your faith and pursue a particular career choice or you will
:47:06. > :47:08.have to say that you are simply unable to do that because you want
:47:09. > :47:15.to be a fully practising Muslim, Jew, Christian, whatever will stop
:47:16. > :47:18.my son is a medical student and irreligious boy, and at some point
:47:19. > :47:23.he will have to work on Saturdays. He accepts that. He is not going to
:47:24. > :47:27.not work because he is Jewish. He understands that decision. It is a
:47:28. > :47:31.simplistic way of saying that if you want to play for United, you have to
:47:32. > :47:36.wear a red shirt. You cannot say that blue is your favourite colour.
:47:37. > :47:42.It is unfortunate that Ramadan coincides with the World Cup and the
:47:43. > :47:47.Commonwealth Games, and I am in admiring of anyone who can follow
:47:48. > :47:50.Ramadan. In Judaism, we have seven fast days and I do a couple of them.
:47:51. > :47:55.And that is pretty tough. You have to accept that if you are competing
:47:56. > :47:59.at that level and considering, as you say, that you are representing
:48:00. > :48:02.your country, and you are there to win medals, part of the team, is it
:48:03. > :48:07.fair to compromise that team's chances of success by issuing your
:48:08. > :48:10.latest beliefs? It was interesting because we were just talking about
:48:11. > :48:17.your devotion to your faith when you were competing. I wonder whether you
:48:18. > :48:22.ever thought of not competing on a Sunday? One remembers chariots of
:48:23. > :48:27.Fire, how he refused to compete on a Sunday and still went on to win
:48:28. > :48:31.glory. Did it ever strike US something that you would not do? It
:48:32. > :48:36.did not enter my mind. I was on the same team as Jonathan Edwards, who
:48:37. > :48:41.was well into faith. He kept Sunday sacrosanct but for me, it was a
:48:42. > :48:44.false cycle to me. In my experience, I felt that God created me with all
:48:45. > :48:50.these gifts and abilities and wanted me to go out and to reap where I
:48:51. > :48:56.have sold, to go out and represent myself and my country and himself to
:48:57. > :49:03.the best of my glory. So it was a false icon to me, to go out there.
:49:04. > :49:07.You mentioned religion a couple of times, and it is much more about
:49:08. > :49:12.religion than it is about the Alpha and Omega. Think God has created us
:49:13. > :49:17.and knows our story. He knows our gifts. There is no particular one
:49:18. > :49:22.day. Every day is the Sabbath as far as he's concerned. You are talking
:49:23. > :49:25.about Saturday and Sunday, but Ramadan is a whole month. I've found
:49:26. > :49:29.it very interesting that the programme was suggesting that it did
:49:30. > :49:33.not affect you as much as you perhaps not that it would. Your mind
:49:34. > :49:40.is probably the thing that holds you back. Couple of months before, you
:49:41. > :49:47.start to secretly worry about the month. And mentally, you wrap
:49:48. > :49:50.yourself up, working out how you are going to manage it. I am already
:49:51. > :49:54.thinking about next year, which is even longer, and we have not got
:49:55. > :49:57.through this one yet. But once you are in it, you are in it. In my
:49:58. > :50:03.preparation, I'd just spoke to Michael Mosley about the mental side
:50:04. > :50:11.of it. And we talked through this. It really is getting control of your
:50:12. > :50:16.psyche and embracing it. And realising that medically speaking,
:50:17. > :50:20.from the health aspects of fasting, the other thing about Ramadan is
:50:21. > :50:24.that you are not doing it individually. There is a whole
:50:25. > :50:29.collective. I know it falls at the same time as the World Cup, but I
:50:30. > :50:31.think that is a massive positive because it informed the huge
:50:32. > :50:36.audience that would not normally have known what Ramadan was. They
:50:37. > :50:43.might have heard about it at school, but no masses of people know
:50:44. > :50:49.about it. And I think that is actually a huge motivating driver. I
:50:50. > :50:53.feel quite proud about it. But you do actually eats? At the end of the
:50:54. > :51:00.day. For me, I could do that. It doesn't look like it, but I could do
:51:01. > :51:07.that. I have 19 hours were a mustn't eat, but I can get stuck in 456
:51:08. > :51:18.hours. Can you drink water? I could do that. When I was an athlete, I
:51:19. > :51:22.never used to eat in the run-up to the games, because I've I've got
:51:23. > :51:26.used to drinking, during the day, getting ready for competition, what
:51:27. > :51:34.happens if you cannot drink? Would you start flapping? I would be like
:51:35. > :51:38.a camel, do without it. There we go. I will come to you in a second,
:51:39. > :51:47.because think you will be interested in what happens in Glasgow. Let's
:51:48. > :51:51.see what Alison has to say. Increasingly busy in George Square
:51:52. > :51:56.ahead of the baton relay. I'm joined by one of the chaplains at the
:51:57. > :52:02.Athletes' Village. What are the difficulties that Muslim athletes
:52:03. > :52:05.face during Ramadan. We have more than a thousand Muslim athletes
:52:06. > :52:09.fasting this Ramadan and the main difficulty is that in their own
:52:10. > :52:14.countries, Ramadan finishes quite early, but in Glasgow, it is about
:52:15. > :52:18.ten o'clock in the evening. Naturally, that is their biggest
:52:19. > :52:24.difficulty. Is it a straight choice between personal faith and country?
:52:25. > :52:27.Not really, because the athletes know that God makes it easy for
:52:28. > :52:32.them. They have a dispensation to fast. If they choose to, they can
:52:33. > :52:36.class themselves as travellers, which makes it easy for them and
:52:37. > :52:42.means that they do not need to fast. If they choose to, it is a personal
:52:43. > :52:51.choice. Josh Taylor, one of the Commonwealth Games boxers from
:52:52. > :52:55.Scotland, it is obviously an issue for boxers, diet, but how was it to
:52:56. > :52:58.have the Commonwealth games here? I'm really excited to get in amongst
:52:59. > :53:02.the buzz and excitement at the village. You competed in London at
:53:03. > :53:08.2012, and you think this will compare? If it is anything like
:53:09. > :53:14.London, it will be amazing. I'd boxed in front of 10,000 fans
:53:15. > :53:18.shouting my name, so if there is going to be 10,000 fans in Scotland,
:53:19. > :53:24.it is going to be even bigger and better for me. I cannot wait. A gold
:53:25. > :53:29.medal? Definitely, 100%. And we have a baton Beira. Scott, just about to
:53:30. > :53:34.carry the baton. How are you feeling? Really cited. All of my
:53:35. > :53:39.family and friends will be at the cathedral so I am looking forward to
:53:40. > :53:43.seeing them. And was it a decision to wear the kilt, a big decision? It
:53:44. > :53:46.was a difficult choice but in the end at the end I'd put a vote on
:53:47. > :53:51.Facebook and it was a unanimous decision. My friends said, get your
:53:52. > :53:56.legs out and get the kilt and! Thank you for joining us. That is it from
:53:57. > :54:00.Glasgow. The baton arrives here at 11:50am. It is all happening here.
:54:01. > :54:05.It certainly is. The outfit is important. It goes back to where we
:54:06. > :54:11.started. I want to pick up with that point, that if you are fasting, God
:54:12. > :54:17.makes it easy. That is what he says. But it must be pretty difficult. If
:54:18. > :54:20.he says so. I am neither an athlete nor a Muslim but it seems to me that
:54:21. > :54:25.I would not fancy being an athlete during a long summer where it lasts
:54:26. > :54:29.for so long. So should concessions be made? I do not think it is
:54:30. > :54:33.unreasonable. I think the organisers should check when Ramadan is coming
:54:34. > :54:38.and if it is coming, put it some other time. It puts a very strong
:54:39. > :54:42.strain on them, and by the nature of the Commonwealth, there are a lot of
:54:43. > :54:47.Muslims in it who will be affected. The question of, did not know that
:54:48. > :54:52.you could be let off and say you were a traveller, but I was always
:54:53. > :54:56.very struck in chariots of Fire by the point that it is God that makes
:54:57. > :55:01.him fast. He is not going to abandon his face for the sake of one race.
:55:02. > :55:06.And it always seems to me to be an important act of seriousness which I
:55:07. > :55:11.respect in anybody. To some extent, high envy Islam. Having the powerful
:55:12. > :55:15.communal fact of the shared fast witching Christianity is pretty much
:55:16. > :55:21.done. Lent is so optional it barely exists. Hardly anyone else does it
:55:22. > :55:24.seriously so it does not make anything like the same impact. I
:55:25. > :55:28.think we have lost something in that. And it is such an important
:55:29. > :55:35.event that may organisers should have made concessions. They should
:55:36. > :55:38.change the time. If we lived in that kind of world, that would be
:55:39. > :55:42.fabulous. We would all feel that we were on an equal footing but the
:55:43. > :55:45.fact that it did not meant that we are not going to moan and groan
:55:46. > :55:53.about it, we will still go out there and be the best that you can be. I'm
:55:54. > :55:59.marvel -- I'm marvel at the last 16 of the World Cup, the debate and the
:56:00. > :56:03.discussion around whether Algeria were going to be fasting when they
:56:04. > :56:08.played Germany. The coach said, any more questions about Ramadan and I
:56:09. > :56:13.am leaving. That was the focus. During that match, there were some
:56:14. > :56:17.dispensations brought in about the fact that they were playing in a
:56:18. > :56:25.World Cup and travelling, but some of the players did still fast. And
:56:26. > :56:30.the goalkeeper, he was superb. 90 minutes, 0-0. He was fasting and you
:56:31. > :56:36.saw him breaking his fast during the match. I think it is the spirit of
:56:37. > :56:58.it. It empowers them. Thank you all. Just a reminder
:56:59. > :57:00.And Saleyha's programme 'Fast Tales' follows immediately after this show.
:57:01. > :57:03.You won't see Saleyha or those wrestlers at the Games.
:57:04. > :57:10.that be surprised by the results? The militant feminist voice is so
:57:11. > :57:13.strong in this country. No longer are people reading this as a
:57:14. > :57:19.meritocracy. By the way, I think your address is lovely. An iPhone to
:57:20. > :57:22.the Daily Mail article was fabulous because we do look at each other's
:57:23. > :57:29.clothes. The first thing you said was, look at the shirt. It is a
:57:30. > :57:32.gorgeous colour. Thank you all. It's been a great morning.
:57:33. > :57:35.Thanks to my guests here in the studio and those who joined
:57:36. > :57:40.We're taking a short break to make way for the Commonwealth
:57:41. > :57:56.You can see it all across the BBC and online. Do check the listings.
:57:57. > :58:04.We will be back on Sunday, August ten. Until then, goodbye. -- August