:00:00. > :00:12.Good morning, I'm Sian Williams, with the show that gets to
:00:13. > :00:16.the heart and soul of the week's big stories. Coming up:
:00:17. > :00:26.Britain is considering arming the Kurds in Iraq. But are we stoking up
:00:27. > :00:28.trouble? The Premier League is up and
:00:29. > :00:31.running. But fans are protesting that football is abandoning its
:00:32. > :00:35.roots. And sparring with boxing great Chris
:00:36. > :00:44.Eubank, who passes on some fashion tips, with fighting talk.
:00:45. > :00:53.I am a formidable anniversary when it comes to the trouser. And we all
:00:54. > :00:59.live at the Edinburgh Festival. Good morning.
:01:00. > :01:02.-- we all live. Welcome to Scotland and Edinburgh, home of the world's
:01:03. > :01:08.biggest arts festival. It is Edinburgh, over 3,000 productions
:01:09. > :01:14.here, 47 different countries represented. This is the time of
:01:15. > :01:18.year where Edinburgh does not sleep. I live here, but for many,
:01:19. > :01:20.year where Edinburgh does not sleep. I live here, but for it will be the
:01:21. > :01:26.first time they come here. If you have an act, get to Edinburgh. We
:01:27. > :01:33.will keep in touch and react to the big stories of the day. And, Chris
:01:34. > :01:35.Eubank, there is only one formidable opponent of the trouser, and it is
:01:36. > :01:58.the kilt, my friend. First of the humanitarian crisis
:01:59. > :02:02.that has been troubling governments around the world. More than 1
:02:03. > :02:07.million people have been driven from their homes in Iraq because of the
:02:08. > :02:14.advanced of the militant Islamic State biters. The recent fighting is
:02:15. > :02:20.centred around northern Iraq. -- fighters. Kurdish fighters are being
:02:21. > :02:27.outfought by extremists. America and friends say they will send more
:02:28. > :02:31.military supplies to the Kurds but the government here says it will
:02:32. > :02:39.favourably consider a request for arms from Britain. So should we go
:02:40. > :02:46.ahead and give weapons to the Kurds? Lindsey German helped set up the
:02:47. > :02:53.stop the War coalition 13 years ago. Tim Stanley, a historian. George
:02:54. > :02:56.Hargreaves, a Pentecostal Minister. And a prison officer for five-year
:02:57. > :03:03.is who turned to stand-up comedy. And a prison officer for five-year
:03:04. > :03:22.five years. And we would like to know what you
:03:23. > :03:28.The Prime Minister says today that a humanitarian response to the advance
:03:29. > :03:33.of the Islamic State extremists in Iraq is not enough and if some
:03:34. > :03:40.security response is needed including what he describes as our
:03:41. > :03:45.military price. In the Sunday Telegraph today, he warns that if we
:03:46. > :03:49.do not act to stem the onslaught of this dangerous terrorist movement,
:03:50. > :03:55.it will grow stronger and it will target is on the streets of Britain.
:03:56. > :04:00.It comes as the multinational relief operation battles to save more
:04:01. > :04:05.lives. Aid to refugees, some delivered by
:04:06. > :04:10.UK aircraft, is getting through, but with hundreds of thousands needing
:04:11. > :04:16.help, it is not all task. Supplies of food and water are desperately
:04:17. > :04:22.required but what people want is protection -- and not help task.
:04:23. > :04:28.Reports extremists massacred 80 Yazidi men who refuse to convert
:04:29. > :04:31.Islam has heightened fear. Tornado jets have in helping with
:04:32. > :04:35.surveillance missions and special forces are thought to be assisting
:04:36. > :04:43.in the ground. But that is as far as the government has been prepared to
:04:44. > :04:50.go. -- on the ground. So the government is saying it will request
:04:51. > :04:51.-- consider requests from the Kurds for military hardware, so is it
:04:52. > :05:11.right to arm the Kurds in Iraq? You can only vote once and you can
:05:12. > :05:18.vote online for free. Results will be announced at the end of the
:05:19. > :05:23.programme. Lindsay, is it right to arm Kurds in Iraq? I have great
:05:24. > :05:28.sympathy for the Kurds and I have great sympathy for the people
:05:29. > :05:35.suffering at the moment. I am very much opposed to IS and also to the
:05:36. > :05:39.Governor to getting involved militarily or for arming the Kurds,
:05:40. > :05:44.we need to look at where the situation has come from. First, from
:05:45. > :05:50.the intervention launched by George Bush and Tony Blair, it has come
:05:51. > :05:56.from the arming of ISIS which has involved Saudi Arabia, Qatar and
:05:57. > :06:00.Turkey. So we need to look at what is happening and not to say we will
:06:01. > :06:07.have more military intervention. And we should look at the way the Kurds
:06:08. > :06:11.have been treated. The largest Kurdish organisation is still listed
:06:12. > :06:16.as a terrorist organisation in Britain and the European Union. The
:06:17. > :06:20.point about intervention making the problem worst, if we intervene again
:06:21. > :06:25.and we give the Kurds were ends, or that exacerbate the situation? --
:06:26. > :06:30.weapons. Every reason she has given for not going in is a reason I think
:06:31. > :06:39.we should go on. I was against Syria, Libya and the original Iraqi
:06:40. > :06:42.invasion. But we have such show a responsibility to do something
:06:43. > :06:47.today. It goes back to the First World War when we helped that
:06:48. > :06:51.region. We unpacked that fragile balance with the Iraqi invasion and
:06:52. > :06:56.we have a situation where we have this extraordinary face -- force of
:06:57. > :07:01.the Islamic State which beheads people and crucifies people and its
:07:02. > :07:07.goal is to extend the its enemies. It poses a threat to the Kurds, the
:07:08. > :07:14.refugees, Christian and Yazidi, it poses a threat eventually to us
:07:15. > :07:19.because so many of its fighters from Britain and other European
:07:20. > :07:24.countries. So because we broke the egg is such a long time ago, we have
:07:25. > :07:30.a moral responsibility to help the Kurds survive -- such a long time
:07:31. > :07:35.ago. They are just struggling survival -- for survival so if they
:07:36. > :07:41.ask for arms, let's do it. So we should give them the weapons? I do
:07:42. > :07:48.not think so. I think it is a very Orientalist Abbey chewed --
:07:49. > :07:53.attitude. Barack Obama is the fourth President of the USA to attack Iraq
:07:54. > :08:02.and it is atrocious the conditions they have been left in. What danger
:08:03. > :08:05.Will giving weapons lead to? We can see how it is working with ISIS
:08:06. > :08:10.because they have been armed already, we created this problem. So
:08:11. > :08:14.the weapons that went to Islamic State fighters are the very weapons
:08:15. > :08:20.America gave to Iraq in the first place? But they were not given for
:08:21. > :08:24.the purpose of killing Kurds. That is the point, as soon as you give
:08:25. > :08:29.weapons to any group, you do not know what will happen. We need to
:08:30. > :08:35.know as a nation, are we prepared to sit back and watch more genocide
:08:36. > :08:38.happen? I am all for the debate Lindsey is talking about, have that
:08:39. > :08:44.discussion, but have action on the ground. Because people are dying
:08:45. > :08:51.today. This is exactly what was said in 11 years ago. We are not talking
:08:52. > :08:55.about troops on the ground. It was said in Libya three years ago, it
:08:56. > :09:01.was what was said in Syria last year. People say, we must do
:09:02. > :09:06.something. But everything we have done has made it worse. We should
:09:07. > :09:13.remember where ISIS came from, it came from Western intervention. I
:09:14. > :09:20.want to talk about the Kurdish forces. I want to find out what the
:09:21. > :09:25.Kurds want from Britain when they say they want more weapons. Let's
:09:26. > :09:30.talk to the high representative to the UK of the Kurdistan regional
:09:31. > :09:35.government. Thank you for joining us. Have you put in a formal request
:09:36. > :09:42.of the British government for arms. --? I believe my government has not
:09:43. > :09:47.done so yet but I am sure a formal request will be coming soon. What
:09:48. > :09:54.would you be requesting? What do you want for the Kurds? I am not a
:09:55. > :09:58.military person so I am not going to read out a list of what might be
:09:59. > :10:05.required. But the fact is that ISIS have outgunned the people. But the
:10:06. > :10:11.reason they are unlikely and has a history and it is a political
:10:12. > :10:18.history, it is down to the policies of Maliki of marginalising the Kurds
:10:19. > :10:26.and keeping ours and the Sunni population out of decision-making.
:10:27. > :10:32.-- the reason they are without weapons. The reason the people are
:10:33. > :10:39.in this situation is partly an Iraqi problem and also, ISIS, as your
:10:40. > :10:45.guests have mentioned, got US weaponry supplied to the Iraqis. You
:10:46. > :10:49.say you are not a military expert, at when you talk about Kurdish
:10:50. > :10:56.fighters and what they need to fight the Islamic, British government
:10:57. > :10:59.sources suggest that might be body armour and counter explosive
:11:00. > :11:04.equipment, would that be enough? That may be enough, but there are
:11:05. > :11:11.others who say we need artillery, even ammunition. We are even low on
:11:12. > :11:16.ammunition, it is as basic as that. What happens if you do not get that?
:11:17. > :11:22.If I may refer to some of the discussion you had, we are hearing
:11:23. > :11:28.arguments that apply to events ten years ago. It is time people moved
:11:29. > :11:33.in. We are where we are today in Iraq. -- moved on. The war was
:11:34. > :11:38.right, it was wrong, people are dying today, ISIS is committing
:11:39. > :11:44.genocide today against Christians, Yazidis, and others, and if we do
:11:45. > :11:49.not stop them, the community in the Middle East will be at risk. Written
:11:50. > :11:55.has interests in Iraq and the Middle East. -- Britain. They will come
:11:56. > :11:59.after you, they are at war with you already and if you do not realise
:12:00. > :12:05.that, you are not living in the real world. I want to put that to
:12:06. > :12:08.directly to you, Lindsay, you living in the past talking about
:12:09. > :12:12.intervention years ago. There is genocide happening now and if we do
:12:13. > :12:17.not do something, it will come to these shores. We need to understand
:12:18. > :12:23.this was the cause of the worsening situation in the Middle East. And
:12:24. > :12:26.when people say it will come to us as well, Albert Einstein said the
:12:27. > :12:30.definition of madness was that you keep doing the same thing over and
:12:31. > :12:36.over again and expects to get different results. I am very sorry,
:12:37. > :12:40.I hate what is going on in Iraq but many Kurds do not want American
:12:41. > :12:47.intervention. And the people that had been helping the Yazidis do not
:12:48. > :12:57.want that kind of thing, S strikes and so on. -- S strikes. It is a
:12:58. > :13:03.complex situation. -- air strikes. There are many refugee problems in
:13:04. > :13:06.the world. There was a terrible situation for Palestinians and we do
:13:07. > :13:13.not get discussions about intervention, let's look at a little
:13:14. > :13:22.sore -- political solutions. We did not intervene in Ukraine and Syria,
:13:23. > :13:25.so why here? Western intervention may be much of the cause of the
:13:26. > :13:29.current crisis but I am not interested in that, I am interested
:13:30. > :13:35.in dealing with it. People are dying! I do not care about an
:13:36. > :13:45.intellectual arguments, this is proposed is. About what went wrong
:13:46. > :13:49.11 years ago. But if you take that argument about it being a short-term
:13:50. > :13:53.approach and you look beyond that, the long-term strategy is looking
:13:54. > :13:58.towards the future and saying, what is going to happen if we do give
:13:59. > :14:04.weapons to the Kurds? It could lead to the break-up of the state. That
:14:05. > :14:07.might not be a bad thing. This is about making up for the moral
:14:08. > :14:12.mistakes of the past and one mistakes was that the Kurds did not
:14:13. > :14:18.get the help. And when we liberated Kuwait in 1991, we did not support
:14:19. > :14:22.the Kurds and their revolt against Saddam Hussein, we have consistently
:14:23. > :14:26.let them down and I find it strange that some people on the left are
:14:27. > :14:30.very agitated about what Israel ever does to people, they march about
:14:31. > :14:36.that and they complain about that state. They do not march against the
:14:37. > :14:41.Islamic State. They say they are concerned but they do not want to do
:14:42. > :14:45.anything and I have not seen any of them marching against actions of
:14:46. > :14:54.this terrorist organisation. We do not in ISIS, that is why there has
:14:55. > :15:02.been a reaction to Israel -- one. -- we do not arm. We are going to stick
:15:03. > :15:07.to Iraq and the Kurds, should we arm the Kurds? We have been inconsistent
:15:08. > :15:13.all over the region and that is the problem. It is OK to say not to talk
:15:14. > :15:20.about it, but there are British interests in Iraq, oil interests. So
:15:21. > :15:25.we have to be aware of going in under a false pretext. What will
:15:26. > :15:30.happen again is that we will recreate a power vacuum which is why
:15:31. > :15:39.ISIS were able to rise. We are not saying to go in in the same way,
:15:40. > :15:46.sending in troops. Some people are saying that. We have people with old
:15:47. > :15:52.weaponry, running out of bullets, they cannot defend themselves. This
:15:53. > :15:57.is the problem on the ground today. And if they do not have the means to
:15:58. > :16:01.defend themselves, many will die and there have already been massacres.
:16:02. > :16:02.As a Christian or even non-Christian, we cannot sit back
:16:03. > :16:20.and say, let's have a debate. reverend, that you give weapons to
:16:21. > :16:27.hurt one another. Tim will be aware of the concept of a just war. There
:16:28. > :16:30.is a very famous German theology and who was part of the plots to kill
:16:31. > :16:39.Hitler. Why? Because Hitler was a horror. So this is a just war? It is
:16:40. > :16:46.not a just war. It has been a war for oil. One of the reasons they
:16:47. > :16:54.want to support the Kurds is that there are major oilfields there. It
:16:55. > :17:01.does not need the oil. There are huge American and is really
:17:02. > :17:10.interests in oil. Let's just remember, three years ago, Libya was
:17:11. > :17:12.bombed and arms were given to both sides. There is a civil war the
:17:13. > :17:18.in-out and actually they had to evacuate British citizens two weeks
:17:19. > :17:25.ago. This is what happens when you say, let's give alms. It is
:17:26. > :17:29.absolutely destructive. However responsible is it to say that we
:17:30. > :17:34.have had these terrible wars and you say, let's just talk about it now.
:17:35. > :17:36.It's completely irresponsible. We are opening the discussion out to
:17:37. > :17:38.you. Is it right to arm the Kurds
:17:39. > :17:41.in Iraq? If you think it is,
:17:42. > :17:48.text the word 'VOTE' followed by 'YES' - if you think it isn't,
:17:49. > :18:00.text 'VOTE' followed by 'NO'. Texts will be charged
:18:01. > :18:04.at your standard message rate. You've got around twenty
:18:05. > :18:06.minutes before the vote closes. You can also vote online
:18:07. > :18:08.at www.bbc.co.uk/sundaymorninglive. Results will be announced
:18:09. > :18:13.at the end of the show. Still to come, fashion face and
:18:14. > :18:17.fighting. One of Britain's more successful boxers, Chris Eubank,
:18:18. > :18:21.tells us why he was drawn to the sport. Why boxing? I want it to
:18:22. > :18:27.matter. -- I wanted to matter. Or to be precise the Premier League
:18:28. > :18:32.- which kicked off yesterday. The Premier League gets worldwide
:18:33. > :18:36.audiences and generates huge deals for
:18:37. > :18:41.sponsorship and television rights. And after a record summer
:18:42. > :18:44.of transfer spending, the players can afford to strut their stuff
:18:45. > :18:48.on the pitch this season. On the sidelines though,
:18:49. > :18:50.there are rumblings of discontent as some supporters try to get
:18:51. > :19:05.their voices heard. Usually, they are chanting for their
:19:06. > :19:07.teams but this week football supporters gathered in London
:19:08. > :19:11.calling for more action off the pitch. In and you of record-breaking
:19:12. > :19:16.transfers and big-money sponsorship deals, fans feel that they are being
:19:17. > :19:20.priced out of the game. Clubs operate as businesses. They are
:19:21. > :19:23.thinking, how much can we squeeze out of people. But it is a
:19:24. > :19:28.short-sighted viewpoint. There's a danger that younger fans with less
:19:29. > :19:35.disposable income cannot afford to pay these prices. Fans feel that
:19:36. > :19:38.clubs are exploiting their loyalty. People love football. They are
:19:39. > :19:45.passionate about it. It is more than a game, it is your identity and
:19:46. > :19:48.sense of belonging. It plays on the loyalties of people who will pay
:19:49. > :19:53.anything. The costs are appalling and they do not know how most people
:19:54. > :19:57.can afford to go. They will not in the near future. Merchandise and
:19:58. > :20:03.players wages are also a bone of contention. I do not buy the new
:20:04. > :20:08.shirts for ?45 or whatever. Some people seem to be happy to pay it.
:20:09. > :20:13.While people are, the clubs will still be charging. When you look at
:20:14. > :20:17.the doctor saving peoples lives, they are not getting paid the same
:20:18. > :20:24.money as a footballer. It is out of control. It is pricing football fans
:20:25. > :20:28.out of the game. FA officials say that they will pass on the concerns
:20:29. > :20:35.of fans but pricing is controlled by individual clubs. In a way, sounds
:20:36. > :20:40.our customers because we pay the money just like customers, but there
:20:41. > :20:43.is more to the relationship with a football club than just that, in
:20:44. > :20:48.terms of the commitment and involvement. There is a recognise
:20:49. > :20:50.Asian that that is a lot of what makes English football special and
:20:51. > :20:56.marketable. -- recognise Asian. Well, we're joined now by Sports
:20:57. > :20:58.presenter, Kelly Cates, As the daughter of ex-manager Kenny
:20:59. > :21:05.Dalglish, you'd expect nothing else. Journalist and football fan
:21:06. > :21:07.Lee Price, a devoted Man U supporter - but who's just published
:21:08. > :21:09.a book called 'Turning And Jonathan Shalit,
:21:10. > :21:13.who runs a talent agency in London, which includes sports stars such
:21:14. > :21:36.as jockey Frankie Dettori and Welcome to you all. You turn away
:21:37. > :21:40.from Manchester United, not just because they did so disastrously
:21:41. > :21:45.yesterday. Why was that the case? And turned away when they were elite
:21:46. > :21:48.champions. The Premier League is the greatest division in world football
:21:49. > :21:54.unless you are a fan. The modern game is risking alienating those on
:21:55. > :21:58.the stands, by pressing them out. They made so much money from the TV
:21:59. > :22:07.deal that last season, they could have left every fan in for free and
:22:08. > :22:15.lost no money. But now, the priciest, a season ticket is ?2014.
:22:16. > :22:19.Extortionate. The cheapest one is ?1014, with Arsenal. A bargain(!)
:22:20. > :22:28.For the working man's game, it is alien. As a fan, how much were you
:22:29. > :22:33.paying? On the day, up to ?100. ?100! It is the players and the
:22:34. > :22:36.agents and the sponsorship deals. Everyone else is making a vast
:22:37. > :22:41.amount of money out of football and it means that the fans cannot afford
:22:42. > :22:45.to go. I'm not sure it is true that they cannot afford to go because
:22:46. > :22:47.Stadium is up and down the country are packed. I would argue that
:22:48. > :22:54.football has never been more healthy and more wonderful. When I was
:22:55. > :23:02.younger, it was dangerous to go and you had racism and violence and
:23:03. > :23:06.police horses galloping across the turf. I remember at Chelsea, police
:23:07. > :23:09.were galloping across the turf will stop now I can go safely and take
:23:10. > :23:14.children. I can have a glass of wine, coffee, beer, in comfort. I'm
:23:15. > :23:17.going to Chelsea's first home game next week and I'm going to see the
:23:18. > :23:21.guy who set up the goal but Warren -- the goal that won the World Cup.
:23:22. > :23:26.How exciting to see that in London. I do not think it is fair to blame
:23:27. > :23:31.foot hollered -- agents. No one condemns a film star for $20 million
:23:32. > :23:35.a movie. No one condemns an entrepreneur for making hundreds of
:23:36. > :23:39.millions of pounds. It is a market. If football clubs overcharge the
:23:40. > :23:44.fans, they will not buy a ticket. If the shirts are overpriced, people
:23:45. > :23:51.will not buy them. It is a marketplace and people pay what they
:23:52. > :23:55.want to pay. I think it is about who can afford to buy the tickets. If
:23:56. > :24:00.you have generations of supporters in one family and somebody wants to
:24:01. > :24:02.take their grandchild along, that they have supported, that the
:24:03. > :24:08.appearance took them to watch, that is the fan that has been priced out.
:24:09. > :24:11.Corporate tickets, people with season tickets can afford to pay
:24:12. > :24:16.over ?1000, those people are not being priced out but there are a lot
:24:17. > :24:20.of people who are. Football losing its soul, the fans are the sole of
:24:21. > :24:23.football. It is all about success and the footballers and what happens
:24:24. > :24:30.on the pitch but if you want to market football and to be a club
:24:31. > :24:35.that has a great heritage, you have to have something intangible that
:24:36. > :24:38.people can attach themselves to. And that is what fans provide. If you
:24:39. > :24:42.televise football with no atmosphere, a group of fans who
:24:43. > :24:46.turned up once in a blue moon and do not know the songs... But people are
:24:47. > :24:51.still turning up. Not the people who have been going for generations.
:24:52. > :24:55.Football is abandoning its roots. You say that football is the working
:24:56. > :25:01.man's game, why should it belong to one section of society? It should be
:25:02. > :25:07.open to all sections. What has happened in Germany is that the
:25:08. > :25:14.Bayern Munich president came out, and they are ticket prices are very
:25:15. > :25:19.low. He came out and said, look, we could charge an extra hundred pounds
:25:20. > :25:21.for a season ticket, a lot more money, but to us that is ?5 million,
:25:22. > :25:24.five minutes of haggling in a transfer deal. The amount of money
:25:25. > :25:31.from tickets is not significant to them. You are a West Ham supporter?
:25:32. > :25:38.My son is, so I am by default. You have to buy the replica shirts? Yes.
:25:39. > :25:44.And what you think about the rights of football? I think you both have
:25:45. > :25:49.good points. Definitely, there are people who have been going for years
:25:50. > :25:56.and years who simply cannot afford it and that is not right. I think
:25:57. > :26:01.the clubs should be able to provide something for the hard-core fans. I
:26:02. > :26:06.do not think it is excusable to just say, you cannot come here any more.
:26:07. > :26:10.I'm not sure about it being a middle-class sport. Public schools,
:26:11. > :26:14.they do not even play football. You have fantastic family enclosures at
:26:15. > :26:20.West Ham, but that is an exception. Actually, away games, fans are
:26:21. > :26:22.falling, attendances are falling. It might be a minority but people are
:26:23. > :26:29.going less and less because they can afford to. Some might argue that the
:26:30. > :26:33.trouble that away fans bring makes it better that they do not go.
:26:34. > :26:40.Hardeep Singh Kohli is in Edinburgh. What are they saying they are?
:26:41. > :26:43.I'm joined by Andrew and Karen. It could not be a better day to be in
:26:44. > :26:49.Edinburgh. You are the director of Motherwell, it is different in the
:26:50. > :26:54.Scottish game. The premiership is the world's league. Global TV
:26:55. > :26:59.audiences and huge sums of money. We are adjusting to a more sustainable
:27:00. > :27:03.model. The clubs are embedded in their communities with stronger
:27:04. > :27:06.connections to the fans. There is a distance to travel but we're
:27:07. > :27:13.starting to get there. The Edinburgh derby today, both of those clubs
:27:14. > :27:17.could go to fan ownership. It is changing. Both models can work but
:27:18. > :27:24.it is different. You cannot say that the premiership is the same.
:27:25. > :27:27.Jonathan made the point that it is a free market. Does that mean that
:27:28. > :27:31.there is more customers? Scotland has the best supported league in
:27:32. > :27:34.Europe in terms of the proportion of the public turning out to watch
:27:35. > :27:39.football. Other supporters have more of a say in how the clubs are run.
:27:40. > :27:49.We like to say that we have teams you can touch but the premiership is
:27:50. > :27:52.almost unattainable. For us, it is closer to home. Karen, you are a fan
:27:53. > :27:55.of West Brom so you are used to paint. Definitely. Fans are over a
:27:56. > :27:59.barrel. Can they genuinely boycott? The revenue seems less relevant
:28:00. > :28:03.heaven that huge sums of money involved in the game. If everybody
:28:04. > :28:09.did boycott. But that will not happen. Logic does not come into it
:28:10. > :28:16.for fans, it is loyalty. And the teams know that. They exploit that,
:28:17. > :28:19.whether it is merchandise or ticket prices. Some teams make an effort,
:28:20. > :28:22.letting children in for a pound or providing travel. There seems to be
:28:23. > :28:28.logic and loyalty on the terraces but not in the boardroom.
:28:29. > :28:36.Absolutely. Football is a beautiful game today, because my team won.
:28:37. > :28:40.The general sense we're getting is that football seems to be pricing
:28:41. > :28:45.out the ordinary fans, and it comes back to how much players are paid.
:28:46. > :28:49.How much we have put into the stadium is, how much money is going
:28:50. > :28:54.elsewhere, basically, which means that ticket prices go up. Does the
:28:55. > :28:59.responsibility not fall to the agents who are getting 10%
:29:00. > :29:03.sometimes, of big-money deals. It is not a question of fault. The
:29:04. > :29:07.question is, is football in a good place? It has never been in a better
:29:08. > :29:12.place. For many years, footballers were underpaid and treated
:29:13. > :29:15.appallingly. Footballers are now rewarded properly for what they
:29:16. > :29:24.achieve. You have to remember, the television rights in the UK alone
:29:25. > :29:29.are ?3 billion. Why should the footballers not share in that?
:29:30. > :29:31.Without the footballers, you would not have the sports to show. And the
:29:32. > :29:32.outcry this morning is that you need better players, you need more money
:29:33. > :29:40.in your pockets to go out and buy better players. And then this would
:29:41. > :29:45.never happen. We're talking about business. The supporter is not a
:29:46. > :29:48.customer. The ticket price is a drop in the ocean. They like to see good
:29:49. > :29:53.players and the only way you can get good players is with wages. But that
:29:54. > :29:59.is relevant to the supporter. And United have a world record
:30:00. > :30:02.sponsorship deal. They have enough money without charging their fans
:30:03. > :30:05.hundreds of pounds. I was going to say that there needs to be some kind
:30:06. > :30:12.of social responsibility programme within football teams. I think that
:30:13. > :30:22.would help. But in terms of paying players wages, I think that is a
:30:23. > :30:34.different point. I think the money that comes in from ticket prices is
:30:35. > :30:37.a drop in the ocean. The extra money that has come in from the television
:30:38. > :30:39.deal, I read that that would be enough to send every fan to the
:30:40. > :30:40.games for free. Obviously, that will not be happening and the clubs have
:30:41. > :30:46.to be run responsibly. WHISTLE-BLOWERS. Well done. The rest
:30:47. > :30:55.has blown the full-time whistle. We are out of time. -- the referee.
:30:56. > :31:05.Why jokes about God can cause an almighty fuss.
:31:06. > :31:21.I want to thank God for helping me win this award.
:31:22. > :31:25.comedy world lost one of its brightest and brilliant stars when
:31:26. > :31:27.Robin Williams was found dead in his home in Los Angeles.
:31:28. > :31:30.The comedian, who had made us laugh for decades, had been struggling
:31:31. > :31:33.with depression, anxiety and the early stages of Parkinson's disease.
:31:34. > :31:36.Among those who paid tribute to him were his co-stars on
:31:37. > :31:39.Mrs Doubtfire, one of his most loved films, where he played the
:31:40. > :31:43.Actor and comedian Scott Capurro appeared in that film with Williams
:31:44. > :31:49.and he joins us now from Edinburgh, where he is performing this week.
:31:50. > :32:00.What are your memories of Robin Williams?
:32:01. > :32:09.I auditioned for the film and I saw him at a comedy club and I was a
:32:10. > :32:16.pushy actor and I said, I auditioned for your film. He said, which film?
:32:17. > :32:26.Big ball of minutes later, I was set with a comedy icon. What was he like
:32:27. > :32:33.onset? Very funny, very effervescent. He provides so much.
:32:34. > :32:43.We shot a scene a couple of times and he would see what else he could
:32:44. > :32:49.come up with. It was like a school yard, it was good fun, very playful.
:32:50. > :32:53.It flew by, it was a great first experience. It is sort of the reason
:32:54. > :32:59.I am here at the Edinburgh Festival because the film was such a big
:33:00. > :33:06.success everywhere including the UK. I think it helped me to reach a
:33:07. > :33:10.wider audience. How people react things? Have you talked to any
:33:11. > :33:17.comedians about what has happened to Robin Williams and the effect it has
:33:18. > :33:25.had? A comic said the other night, and I agree, it is like Elvis has
:33:26. > :33:27.gone. Robin was an icon and an inspiration to generations of
:33:28. > :33:32.comedians. Arguably the greatest comic of our time. And it just feels
:33:33. > :33:39.like the world is less. It just seems like if that beautiful man, so
:33:40. > :33:47.successful, and so loved, if he cannot be happy, what chance do we
:33:48. > :33:49.have? I do not know the circumstances of his demise, but he
:33:50. > :33:54.will be greatly missed by hundreds of comedians and viewers. It is
:33:55. > :34:03.tragic. Thank you.
:34:04. > :34:08.Depression can affect anybody and in its severest form, is devastating.
:34:09. > :34:09.In our newsroom studio is Paul Farmer from MIND, the mental health
:34:10. > :34:21.charity. Good morning, do you think the
:34:22. > :34:27.coverage of his death has helped or hindered our understanding of mental
:34:28. > :34:30.health issues? It has been an extraordinary week with an
:34:31. > :34:36.outpouring of emotions. And distress. As a result of the death
:34:37. > :34:41.of Robin Williams. Many people could be feeling more able to talk about
:34:42. > :34:45.their own experiences and depression, anxiety, suicidal
:34:46. > :34:50.thought, as a result of his tragic death and the attention the media
:34:51. > :34:57.have put in it. So in that respect, it has been a help. But we have seen
:34:58. > :35:04.poor coverage from some newspapers who have perhaps taken the
:35:05. > :35:09.opportunity to try to delve too deep we into the means of his death and
:35:10. > :35:14.the reasons for his suicide. In contravention to well-established
:35:15. > :35:20.guidelines. In terms of raising the issue so people are more aware of
:35:21. > :35:29.how depression facts all parts of society, our men more reluctant to
:35:30. > :35:36.talk about this than women? -- how depression affects. Is there still a
:35:37. > :35:40.stigma? We know there is still a big stigma around mental health and that
:35:41. > :35:47.particularly applies for men were, typically, we are not good at
:35:48. > :35:55.talking about our feelings and getting help from friends or family.
:35:56. > :36:00.-- and we are typically not good. Nine out of ten people talk about
:36:01. > :36:05.stigma and it affecting mental health. But slowly, attitudes are
:36:06. > :36:10.changing and campaigns like the one we have run are starting to change
:36:11. > :36:16.the way the public thinks about this. And for men in particular,
:36:17. > :36:23.giving people permission to talk about their mental health is a task
:36:24. > :36:32.that is well worth pursuing. We know the suicide rate among men
:36:33. > :36:36.outnumbers that of women 3-1, so there is a benefit to encouraging
:36:37. > :36:41.men to be more open about mental health. Thank you, and if you would
:36:42. > :36:45.like more information about the issues we have discussed, you can
:36:46. > :36:54.find details of organisations on the website.
:36:55. > :37:02.The boxer Chris Eubank was a World Champion, intimidating in the boxing
:37:03. > :37:09.ring. But outside, very much the English country gentleman, with his
:37:10. > :37:13.riding boots and his suits. Some called him eccentric but he was
:37:14. > :37:17.dedicated to his sport and he was beaten for almost a decade. But in
:37:18. > :37:23.1991, a punch left his opponent brain-dead. Watson made a partial
:37:24. > :37:29.recovery but the incident affected Chris Eubank deeply anti-retired in
:37:30. > :37:36.1998. He is now helping his 24-year-old son Chris Eubank Junior
:37:37. > :37:41.follow him to boxing success. I went to meet Chris Eubank senior
:37:42. > :37:47.to talk about his faith, family and that fashion sense.
:37:48. > :37:54.Lovely to see you. Thank you for being here. Easy question, why
:37:55. > :38:01.boxing? I wanted to matter. And boxing seemed, at 16, to be the way
:38:02. > :38:09.in which I could get that. Because I suppose fighting is always respected
:38:10. > :38:14.by men. At 18, I could fight, I had learned the craft. And you could
:38:15. > :38:20.never use it outside of the boxing ring. It is sexy to be able to fight
:38:21. > :38:25.like somebody who is pushing you around and you are taking that on
:38:26. > :38:29.and you have to look like you cannot fight because you do not want to
:38:30. > :38:35.engage in a fight because it means you are a bully because you have a
:38:36. > :38:41.skill set that the person who does not know how to fight does not have.
:38:42. > :38:45.So it is control? How does that fit with your faith because your mother
:38:46. > :38:50.was a very devout Christian? You grew up in the Church with a
:38:51. > :38:57.peaceful way of life, how does that violence fit in with faith? It fits
:38:58. > :39:02.perfectly. The objective is never to get into a fight, it is to defuse a
:39:03. > :39:07.fight, which is what the instruction teachers. There is a contrast
:39:08. > :39:13.between you as a man outside the boxing ring, who will not fight, who
:39:14. > :39:18.has a very strong faith, and the man inside the boxing ring. I remember
:39:19. > :39:23.watching you and you looked like two completely different people. The one
:39:24. > :39:28.in the boxing ring is brutal and frightening and aggressive because
:39:29. > :39:34.you need to be. That is your sport. The aggression is only an act. It is
:39:35. > :39:41.an act that has been back test because it replicates the same thing
:39:42. > :39:47.every time. -- practised. You have to have a demeanour. And you have to
:39:48. > :39:53.want to hit them. The people who want to hurt do not get anywhere.
:39:54. > :39:59.The people who want to score points of those who rise. I am interested
:40:00. > :40:05.in your beliefs and values. Who you are. We talked about Christianity,
:40:06. > :40:11.which you grew up with. Then you converted to Islam when you were an
:40:12. > :40:17.adult, why did you take that decision? I took that decision
:40:18. > :40:31.purely because it is a statement of code. This instruction, from all
:40:32. > :40:38.these rocks. -- box. They are all the same and they teach the same
:40:39. > :40:43.virtues. Dash-macro one. Be kind to your fellow man. You say
:40:44. > :40:49.Christianity and Islam have the same values. But why did you choose one
:40:50. > :40:58.over the other? What attracted you to Islam? I would have converted to
:40:59. > :41:01.Judaism if I had been allowed to. It is a very complicated religion to
:41:02. > :41:10.convert to. I believe in all these religions. Like Buddhism, it teaches
:41:11. > :41:13.the same thing. Does what you believe sustain you through
:41:14. > :41:18.difficult times? Because you have had difficult times in your life.
:41:19. > :41:24.All the instructions of the holy books teaches you how to go through
:41:25. > :41:29.life. Men Michael Watson was seriously injured and had a blood
:41:30. > :41:34.clot in his brain after a fight with you, that was difficult and you have
:41:35. > :41:41.spoken about that. So does your faith mean forgiving yourself? Yes,
:41:42. > :41:52.of course. I suffered for a time. How long? Write to the way through
:41:53. > :42:00.my career. I suppose it was after I retired that I was able to look at
:42:01. > :42:07.it objectively. And to tell you what I am telling you now. Being a little
:42:08. > :42:14.older, you can be reflective. I did not mean to be -- to do that. I
:42:15. > :42:25.should not have beaten myself up as much as I did when it happened. And
:42:26. > :42:30.did you? Yes, I did. Did you want to leave boxing? I did, but I could
:42:31. > :42:35.not, it was financial, it was a living. Did you tend to fade when
:42:36. > :42:42.things were not going well? Bankruptcy, for example, divorce was
:42:43. > :42:46.another time. Dashed did you turn to faith. You were convicted for a
:42:47. > :42:53.driving offence where a man died. What happened to you when you go to
:42:54. > :42:59.those low places, how do you get out of them? What do you turn to? You
:43:00. > :43:07.turn to the instruction again, which says, let go. Let go. And that is
:43:08. > :43:14.how I have been able to get through this minefield. And to pass this
:43:15. > :43:20.onto my sons. Let go, keep your eye on the objective. Never, ever become
:43:21. > :43:28.subjective about anything. Embrace everything. Christopher has done
:43:29. > :43:36.just as I have a revised. -- advised. He is going to change of
:43:37. > :43:42.the -- he is going to change the game of boxing. Did you encourage
:43:43. > :43:46.him to be a boxer? The way it works is that when you tell your child to
:43:47. > :43:51.do something, they do the opposite and they want to do the opposite,
:43:52. > :43:56.and vice versa. I said to him, boxing is not for you, and I kept
:43:57. > :44:04.him away from the gym which was ten minutes away from the main house. So
:44:05. > :44:09.every three or four months, he said, I am going to try. No, it not
:44:10. > :44:19.for you. You would not let him try it? I would not. And I am so glad I
:44:20. > :44:26.did that. It has made him, it has given him a resolve. You are very
:44:27. > :44:33.much the English gentleman. And you are quite eccentric. You do not see
:44:34. > :44:39.yourself as eccentric. I suppose the monocle, which she said was an
:44:40. > :44:42.affectation. It is fashion. Some people wear hats and other people
:44:43. > :44:58.were more outrageous things. surly when it comes to the
:44:59. > :45:09.treasure. What do you mean? The cut. -- formidable adverse surly. The
:45:10. > :45:11.cut, it gives you an automatic pass. Who do you think you are wearing
:45:12. > :45:16.those? Great to talk to you. You've been voting on
:45:17. > :45:18.our question this morning: Is it right to arm the Kurds
:45:19. > :45:20.in Iraq? The vote is closing now, so please
:45:21. > :45:24.do not text as your vote will not We'll bring you the result
:45:25. > :45:29.at the end of the show. The Edinburgh Festival and Fringe
:45:30. > :45:31.have taken over the Scottish capital, with comedy playing
:45:32. > :45:35.a big role as usual. As with every year, religion is a
:45:36. > :45:38.popular theme with many performers. This time
:45:39. > :45:43.the Royal Mile is plastered with Islamophobia Reloaded by
:45:44. > :45:53.Scott Capurro, Jesus v Buddha by Aidan Killian, Come Heckle Christ
:45:54. > :45:56.by Josh Ladgrove, and Paul Savage Some say jokes about religion are
:45:57. > :46:02.harmless fun, others say it's blasphemous and offensive
:46:03. > :46:04.and ask is nothing sacred. Reverend George Hargreaves is one of
:46:05. > :46:34.those - and at our request he went Everyone loves a laugh and I am no
:46:35. > :46:40.different. Before too long, lazy comedians have been getting away
:46:41. > :46:53.with blasphemy. And it has got to stop. As irreverent, I have stood
:46:54. > :46:59.shoulder to shoulder with comedians who fight for the right for free
:47:00. > :47:00.speech. I'm here in Edinburgh at the biggest comedy Festival of them all.
:47:01. > :47:02.And I am about to go into the lions den. I'm here to see an atheist
:47:03. > :47:05.comedian, who will perform his guide to religion. First of all, I want to
:47:06. > :47:08.thank God for helping me to win this award and for the fans on my back, I
:47:09. > :47:14.love you all. I love you back. I would not believe what... I enjoy
:47:15. > :47:18.the show. By really did. Because it was different from what I've thought
:47:19. > :47:24.it would be. The rat is the medium by communicate in and what ever the
:47:25. > :47:28.message is, the rat is the medium. There are Christian and Muslim
:47:29. > :47:36.rappers, and also atheist rappers, but they are less well-known.
:47:37. > :47:41.Cooperation has a dark side. Religious quarters are just religion
:47:42. > :47:46.is working. What you hope to achieve with your show? I hope that
:47:47. > :47:49.religious people will think about faith in a new way and appreciate
:47:50. > :47:54.the reasons that they have it historically. I hope that
:47:55. > :47:56.nonreligious people, especially atheists, who have animosity towards
:47:57. > :48:01.religion and think it is pointless and stupid and wrong, will realise
:48:02. > :48:06.that people have religion for a reason, and maybe that will promote
:48:07. > :48:13.a rapport between believers and nonbelievers. Coordinated action,
:48:14. > :48:25.keeping people from fragmenting... This show, provocative. George is
:48:26. > :48:29.here, along with Tim Stanley, who joins us. He went in there saying
:48:30. > :48:32.that comedians were getting away with blasphemy and you were
:48:33. > :48:36.converted? And would not say converted but that was not a lazy
:48:37. > :48:39.comedian. He had put a lot of work in and he had something to say that
:48:40. > :48:43.was interesting. A point of view that I did not agree with but I
:48:44. > :48:48.leave in free speech and believe that comedy has a place and it is
:48:49. > :48:54.normally a place of pushing the boundaries to the edge. Is someone
:48:55. > :49:01.at the edge that says you have gone too far. But he did not. We're his
:49:02. > :49:09.stop? Would you go and see Come Hackle Christ. I would not buy a
:49:10. > :49:13.ticket for a show with that title. But is that no point? You go in and
:49:14. > :49:18.say it is going to be disastrous but actually when you watch it you it is
:49:19. > :49:21.not so bad. That happens so often, people want to get a rise out of the
:49:22. > :49:27.audience by having a title that will get their goat. And it is a damp
:49:28. > :49:31.squib. But I am against those who deliberately try to be offensive and
:49:32. > :49:38.disrespectful to people's yearly health beliefs, whether it is my
:49:39. > :49:45.Christian believes or Jewish beliefs. -- Christian beliefs.
:49:46. > :49:49.Because that is not nice. For us as Christians, you are talking about
:49:50. > :49:54.our heavenly Father. If I started doing a show about your father, you
:49:55. > :50:00.would not like it. My father is any theist so he would not certainly...
:50:01. > :50:05.But if a comedian had a whole show about your father, seeing this that
:50:06. > :50:10.and the other, you get my point. Is that the point, that up to appoint
:50:11. > :50:14.it is OK to make jokes about religion but it is offensive, don't
:50:15. > :50:17.do it? It depends who is offended. Offensive miss is subjective and you
:50:18. > :50:22.cannot say that you have pushed it to this line and you cannot cross
:50:23. > :50:25.that line. To call something blasphemy, something you would call
:50:26. > :50:32.blasphemy I would not call it because your God is not my God. I
:50:33. > :50:38.would have that viewpoint. But I would also say, in terms of Judaism
:50:39. > :50:44.and Islam, adding he gets conflicted. Islam and Judaism are
:50:45. > :50:48.also a culture. You can be a Jewish person and you can also be an
:50:49. > :50:51.atheist. Sometimes people attack lifestyles and they do not agree
:50:52. > :50:54.with doing that. At the end of the day, the purpose of comedy is for
:50:55. > :50:59.people to have a nice time and leave. If I go to a show and they
:51:00. > :51:06.say, do not say this or that, I will not say it. Why make people have a
:51:07. > :51:10.horrible time? I think you are well within your rights to see a title
:51:11. > :51:15.and think, I am not going to go there. I have seen things like
:51:16. > :51:18.that. Miami feminist and anti-racist and I have seen titles and I
:51:19. > :51:24.thought, I am not having that. I will not put my self in that. -- I
:51:25. > :51:28.am a feminist. If you do not like the look of it, do not go. Exactly.
:51:29. > :51:33.Let's see what had he has got in Edinburgh.
:51:34. > :51:40.I'm joined by Bubba Brinkman and Scott. Bubba, doing shows about
:51:41. > :51:45.religion, is that attention seeking? It is controversial and
:51:46. > :51:48.people write about it. I would say yes but no more show than doing
:51:49. > :51:53.shows about sex or politics or anything that evokes strong
:51:54. > :51:55.emotions. Entertainers will naturally gravitate towards those
:51:56. > :52:01.subjects and they are the game. Scott, you have a show at the
:52:02. > :52:06.festival this year about religion. Some say that religion is an easy
:52:07. > :52:10.target, and it does not answer back. How do you counter that criticism? I
:52:11. > :52:13.do not think is land is an easy target. It has been ignored in
:52:14. > :52:17.comedy clubs and I am trying to include everyone. If I excluded
:52:18. > :52:24.religious people, it would seem hostile and racist. I want them to
:52:25. > :52:27.be included. But it is self-selected, because they will not
:52:28. > :52:32.come to a show that attacks what they believer. I hope they come and
:52:33. > :52:36.I want to attack their beliefs, and ideas, but not their feelings. If
:52:37. > :52:44.they want to chat, we can chat, it is not a seminar. I'm joined by a
:52:45. > :52:47.bunch of Bradford women who are smashing stereotypes about
:52:48. > :52:52.religion. Do you think that humour is the right way to break down
:52:53. > :52:58.stereotypes? Yes. Human can really help because it shows that Muslims
:52:59. > :53:01.can have a laugh and that. And why do we not see more of that, because
:53:02. > :53:07.there is humour in your show. There is. The media does not capture that
:53:08. > :53:13.side of it. It is there, and you get a lot of extremist views in the
:53:14. > :53:19.media instead of the diverse staff that we are trying to show.
:53:20. > :53:50.Stereotyped shows about Muslim women boxing
:53:51. > :53:52.choice based on the comedian. If the joke is on national television, it
:53:53. > :53:57.might be offensive because it is intruding into people's front rooms.
:53:58. > :54:01.You talk about Islam will stop Jews enjoy jokes about themselves as a
:54:02. > :54:05.general principle. Jackie Mason was invited by the Queen to be on the
:54:06. > :54:08.Royal variety show. Do they enjoy jokes about themselves more than
:54:09. > :54:14.other faiths? I will not make that judgement. I remember goodness
:54:15. > :54:18.gracious me when the Indian family went out for an English and made a
:54:19. > :54:23.joke about bland English food. I've found that really funny as an
:54:24. > :54:27.English person. But then again, you talk about placards. I saw a few
:54:28. > :54:33.weeks ago, death to those who slander Islam. When they called a
:54:34. > :54:37.teddy bear Mohammed, the Muslim community found that offensive. I'm
:54:38. > :54:40.not saying it is right or wrong but their view should be accepted. Jokes
:54:41. > :54:44.about religion can break down stereotypes? They can. It is
:54:45. > :54:49.important to say that one of the things that makes us superior to the
:54:50. > :54:52.Islamic State is that we allow levity and satire and
:54:53. > :54:58.self-criticism. That is what makes us so great and why people want to
:54:59. > :55:01.live here. But discussing taste in comedy, I think there are?
:55:02. > :55:11.Phenomenon that I have observed. Do not like to name names, but there
:55:12. > :55:16.are some comedians who are not very good. And so they have segued into
:55:17. > :55:21.political comedy. It is a way of getting the audience and pathetic
:55:22. > :55:23.because it thinks that they have to laugh because the point sounds jolly
:55:24. > :55:27.clever. Some comedians do that. Other comedians like Russell Brand
:55:28. > :55:31.seem to think that they have turned into gurus are that they have some
:55:32. > :55:34.position to talk about politics or religion, and that they have evolved
:55:35. > :55:40.into the Socrates of the generation. You are shaking your
:55:41. > :55:43.head? But they haven't. I am all for laughter and joking and they do not
:55:44. > :55:48.mind taking the Mickey out of religion. Miami catholic and Ike
:55:49. > :55:56.Court Father Ted all the time. I cannot stand when comedians are
:55:57. > :55:59.elevated to the position of social critic and the argument is
:56:00. > :56:03.unbeatable because it is funny. -- I quote. Russell Brand has not
:56:04. > :56:07.changed. He has always been like that but now he is reaching a wider
:56:08. > :56:13.audience. I'd disagree. I've found a lot of times in comedy you have to
:56:14. > :56:19.push up are supposed to beating Darren, which is what happens to a
:56:20. > :56:22.lot of religious comedy. What you mean? The Muslim community, there
:56:23. > :56:27.are many stereotypes. You have spoken to them about -- you have
:56:28. > :56:35.spoken about them as if they aren't monolithic. There is comedy in Egypt
:56:36. > :56:40.and Jordan. It is really hard to speak about Islam, they say, but it
:56:41. > :56:45.is not hard and people do it every day. What is great is when you see
:56:46. > :56:49.young ladies like that who are doing a show that actually beats the
:56:50. > :56:56.stereotype. There was a guy called an era Raman became over, and
:56:57. > :57:00.Australian Muslim, and he speaks about the stereotypes. That is why
:57:01. > :57:03.it has been so great with the Jewish community because they have lots of
:57:04. > :57:06.stereotypes to beat Darren. You mention Jackie Mason, what is
:57:07. > :57:10.important is that if you are not of it, be careful speaking about it.
:57:11. > :57:17.I'd think that is important. -- beat Darren. You cannot make jokes about
:57:18. > :57:21.other people's faith? I would not say that. But there needs to be
:57:22. > :57:29.sensitivity. There are great Christian comedians, and mentioned a
:57:30. > :57:34.movie I saw, a hilarious take on the Greek orthodox. But it is done with
:57:35. > :57:42.sensitivity because faith is a serious matter. Some comedians
:57:43. > :57:47.breakdown barriers. I have to leave it there. You have been voting in
:57:48. > :57:51.our text and online vote. The question was, is it right to arm the
:57:52. > :57:59.Kurds in Iraq to Matt and here is what you told us. 80% of those who
:58:00. > :58:07.voted said yes it is. 20% said no. Let's have a quick reaction to that.
:58:08. > :58:11.There is a Kurdish saying, we have no friends except the mountains. I
:58:12. > :58:15.hope this will be one rare occasion where the West proves that that is
:58:16. > :58:21.not true. Vacuole for being here this morning. Thanks for watching
:58:22. > :58:26.and thanks to those who joined us from Edinburgh with Hardeep. We are
:58:27. > :58:34.back next Sunday, and I hope you can join me. Until then, goodbye.