:00:07. > :00:08.Welcome to Sunday Morning Live, I'm Naga Munchetty.
:00:09. > :00:12.On today's programme, education or integration?
:00:13. > :00:14.As the Government relaxes rules on admissions,
:00:15. > :00:18.could we see some schools select more pupils based on their faith?
:00:19. > :00:23.Police in Nottingham have reclassified sexism a hate crime.
:00:24. > :00:25.Other forces may follow suit, but should it treated
:00:26. > :00:40.I have been ignored and further approached, and then people come to
:00:41. > :00:43.me and when I see no, they don't stop, that is when it an issue.
:00:44. > :00:47.A group of MPs want cannabis legalised for medical use,
:00:48. > :00:48.like in other countries around the world.
:00:49. > :00:52.Better known for vegetable plots than romantic ones,
:00:53. > :00:54.green-fingered giant Alan Titchmarsh tells Tommy what it's
:00:55. > :01:07.When I started writing fiction in 1998, I didn't really know what sort
:01:08. > :01:12.of fiction writer I would be. And I wrote it down and I thought, crumbs,
:01:13. > :01:16.I think I'm a romantic novelist. Which, you know, is often used as a
:01:17. > :01:18.pejorative term but actually it's what life is about, it's the
:01:19. > :01:21.substance of life. And X Factor star Jahmene Douglas
:01:22. > :01:23.treats us to a performance of "I Wish" in tribute
:01:24. > :01:37.to World Peace Day. And so is Tommy - ready to share
:01:38. > :01:49.all your thoughts with us. Morning. You guys are key to this
:01:50. > :01:52.show. We want you to get in touch and tell us what you think about any
:01:53. > :01:58.of these topics. Get in touch through Facebook and Twitter. Don't
:01:59. > :01:59.forget to use the hashtag #bbcsml when you are tweeting. Or you can
:02:00. > :02:26.call us on our number: Send us a video message if you like.
:02:27. > :02:28.Put your name on the messages we know who you are. We like a video
:02:29. > :02:31.message. Rabbi David Meyer is a former
:02:32. > :02:35.headmaster and is executive director of the Partnership
:02:36. > :02:37.for Jewish Schools. Cristina Odone is a writer
:02:38. > :02:39.and director of the Centre Andrew Copson is the chief executive
:02:40. > :02:43.of the British Humanist Association. And Jay Lakhani is the director
:02:44. > :02:46.of the Hindu Academy. The Government has announced
:02:47. > :02:53.plans for more selective Grammar schools have been emotively
:02:54. > :02:59.debated in the past few days, but part of the education reforms
:03:00. > :03:03.will also see the removal of a 50% At the moment, faith schools,
:03:04. > :03:07.including over 2,000 popular Catholic schools,
:03:08. > :03:09.must keep 50% of their places open to children, regardless
:03:10. > :03:11.of the religion or beliefs The removal of the cap would allow
:03:12. > :03:25.100% religious selection. We are asking, is it right to
:03:26. > :03:28.abolish the cap or will it mean a more divided generation of
:03:29. > :03:34.schoolchildren? Lets talk to our panel. Rabbi, what impact do you
:03:35. > :03:39.think this has had on faith schools over the past six years? I think the
:03:40. > :03:43.concept of having a quota system has in effect created a situation where
:03:44. > :03:47.you will have for the sake of argument, a seek school, where 50%
:03:48. > :03:53.of the children would be accepted because their parents want them to
:03:54. > :03:57.get a Sikh education. But the next child who is wishing to apply,
:03:58. > :04:01.perhaps a Sikh child whose parents wanted him to be educated within
:04:02. > :04:05.that framework will be told, I'm sorry, you cannot enter the reign
:04:06. > :04:10.enter that school because we are often going to force a child whose
:04:11. > :04:14.parents may come from a different background and say that instead of
:04:15. > :04:19.this child is going to have to come inside the Sikh school and be
:04:20. > :04:22.educated in this way. And in many ways, as opposed to broadening
:04:23. > :04:26.opportunities, it is actually discriminating against children that
:04:27. > :04:30.want to be educated within a certain environment and sing, no, I'm sorry,
:04:31. > :04:35.because of your faith, you will not be accepted. What are the
:04:36. > :04:40.invocations of the Prime Minister removing the cap? The capital was
:04:41. > :04:43.introduced four new faith schools, introduced by the previous
:04:44. > :04:48.government and this government. Many people think that we should not have
:04:49. > :04:53.the new religious schools in the state system because when they
:04:54. > :04:56.select children on religious grounds, they lead to segregation in
:04:57. > :05:01.society. The cap was a way of mitigating that segregation, so
:05:02. > :05:05.removing that cap removes the only mechanism that we have is to try to
:05:06. > :05:09.make sure that children were mixing together from different backgrounds
:05:10. > :05:13.rather than being separated. The cap has not stopped new faith schools
:05:14. > :05:16.from opening. A third of the new free schools over the last six years
:05:17. > :05:19.have been religious schools. But it has meant that they have had to open
:05:20. > :05:23.up to peoples of different backgrounds. And is that a good
:05:24. > :05:28.thing? The Catholic community has been criticised for wanting to
:05:29. > :05:35.prioritise children of one faith and not promoting integration. I think
:05:36. > :05:38.the Rabbi spoke wisely about the difficulty of discriminating against
:05:39. > :05:41.somebody because they are of a Catholic religion and wants to go to
:05:42. > :05:47.a catholic school. It makes no sense to keep them out because of a cap.
:05:48. > :05:51.But also the idea of capping schools that, like the Catholic schools, are
:05:52. > :05:56.more likely to be built in poorer areas, and have an ethnically
:05:57. > :06:01.diverse student body, and are more likely to get a good or excellent
:06:02. > :06:04.Ofsted report, should we be quashing the schools of this excellence? Of
:06:05. > :06:09.course not, we should be promoting them. And that is what removing the
:06:10. > :06:14.cap will do. I want to establish everyone's views. I teach at Eton
:06:15. > :06:18.College, one of the most ancient faith schools in this country. It is
:06:19. > :06:22.a very progressive school because it allows people like me to interact
:06:23. > :06:28.with the candidates and promote a more open system of thinking. I
:06:29. > :06:34.believe in a secular democracy. It is possible when the faith schools
:06:35. > :06:39.are more open-minded. What worries me is that if we are using public
:06:40. > :06:44.funding to allow an individual faith or a cultish group to promote a
:06:45. > :06:48.divisive system, are we being fair to the public or are we damaging the
:06:49. > :06:54.health of the nation? You mean tax gets? Catholics pay taxes, and this
:06:55. > :07:01.may come to you as a surprise, but they pay taxes. Everyone pays taxes.
:07:02. > :07:05.We cannot divide the system so that everybody gets exactly the school
:07:06. > :07:09.they want. You said earlier that this cap quashes schools, it
:07:10. > :07:12.doesn't. It opens them up to more children in precisely the areas you
:07:13. > :07:18.are talking about. It does not quash them. The idea that instead of
:07:19. > :07:23.thinking of it as a 50% cap of children from religious backgrounds,
:07:24. > :07:28.think of it as a guarantee of a 50% people from different backgrounds.
:07:29. > :07:32.Then it seems different. We are used to our education system. We are in
:07:33. > :07:37.fact one of only four countries in the world, the others are Ireland,
:07:38. > :07:41.Estonia and Israel, who allow their state schools to select in this way.
:07:42. > :07:45.What worries me is not whether you allow children to get into faith
:07:46. > :07:50.schools but what faith is being promoted. If it promotes an
:07:51. > :07:57.exclusive agenda, or an agenda that offers reward for financial
:07:58. > :08:03.activities, it is a prescription for bad behaviour. We need to take into
:08:04. > :08:06.account the needs of a modern, growing society. To promote an
:08:07. > :08:13.exclusive agenda in the name of a faith school or to promote an idea
:08:14. > :08:17.in return for financial activities, is strongly damaging the greater
:08:18. > :08:21.society. The pushing of an agenda by a school, how concerned should
:08:22. > :08:24.people be about that? It is important to understand that there
:08:25. > :08:28.are approximately one third of the schools in this country that are
:08:29. > :08:35.faith schools. Of free schools, only about a fifth. Of our society today,
:08:36. > :08:38.it has been built on this actual breakdown of a third of the schools
:08:39. > :08:43.being faith schools and two thirds not being. If you look at the
:08:44. > :08:47.graduates and what we have treated in our society today, we have an
:08:48. > :08:50.incredible liberal society. People from every aspect of faith feel
:08:51. > :08:53.comfortable living in this society and it is built on that foundation.
:08:54. > :08:59.To turn around and suggest that faith schools are in some way
:09:00. > :09:03.limiting people's ability to mix or integrate, our society proves that
:09:04. > :09:07.is not true. And when you look at Northern Ireland, for instance,
:09:08. > :09:12.everybody always says, look at how faith schools segregated the
:09:13. > :09:17.communities in Northern Ireland. But actually because of segregation in
:09:18. > :09:26.Northern Ireland was the two-tiered society they had created were --
:09:27. > :09:33.where Protestants were class a and Catholics were class be. As long as
:09:34. > :09:39.we cater to people saying that, yes, your abilities are respected, then
:09:40. > :09:45.we will not have segregation. I think that those backgrounds should
:09:46. > :09:48.be catered for individually in shared community schools. I think
:09:49. > :09:51.children from different backgrounds should be raised to respect each
:09:52. > :09:54.other but knowing each other in the schools they share. Learning with an
:09:55. > :09:57.alongside people from different backgrounds. It is dangerous to
:09:58. > :10:01.argue from the past about the present. It is true that we have had
:10:02. > :10:09.this system for a long time but the number of places that are faith
:10:10. > :10:13.schools are increasing. More children from Jewish parents are
:10:14. > :10:17.educated in Jewish schools than ever in the past. Because they are
:10:18. > :10:22.oversubscribed! They are excellent. They are only oversubscribed if they
:10:23. > :10:25.are academically successful. The research is unequivocal but one of
:10:26. > :10:29.the main reasons they are academically successful is that they
:10:30. > :10:37.are religiously selective. That is a vicious cycle. If you are suggesting
:10:38. > :10:40.that children enter into a religious school and are academically more
:10:41. > :10:43.able than every single religious leader in our country should be
:10:44. > :10:46.standing up and saying, be religious because your children will be more
:10:47. > :10:52.academically successful. Middle-class parents, everybody
:10:53. > :10:56.knows this, are more able to game a couple dated system than other
:10:57. > :10:59.people. People who have time to go to church and do voluntary work,
:11:00. > :11:06.people who have time to explore the system and understand the system are
:11:07. > :11:12.more likely to take advantage. It is true that faith schools perform
:11:13. > :11:15.better academically when selection is control. But it is not just
:11:16. > :11:20.because of faith. Some of the issues that arrive in the name of faith are
:11:21. > :11:25.valuable for academic achievement. The idea of respect and discipline
:11:26. > :11:28.is crucial and comes directly from faith. These ideas are necessary in
:11:29. > :11:35.order for us to achieve better academic results. It is so important
:11:36. > :11:38.because education does not mean learning facts. Education means
:11:39. > :11:43.disciplining the mind to become focused and able to look at a
:11:44. > :11:47.particular theme in a refined manner, and tickets to its
:11:48. > :11:51.conclusion. Discipline is a crucial word that we are missing out in the
:11:52. > :11:55.system of teaching or education. What about the idea that the Prime
:11:56. > :12:01.Minister has suggested, ensure cohesion, that twins schools,
:12:02. > :12:05.schools of different faith are twinned with one another? Could that
:12:06. > :12:11.be effective? I think twinning schools in a vulcanised system is a
:12:12. > :12:14.second-best system when we could have children running together in
:12:15. > :12:17.the first place. I don't think we should divide children up and then
:12:18. > :12:23.boss them to meet each other. I think we should have shared schools
:12:24. > :12:27.in the first place. I was trying to set up a Hindu and Church of England
:12:28. > :12:29.School combined. To do this, you will help academic excellence
:12:30. > :12:33.because people of both faiths will be able to interact with each other
:12:34. > :12:38.and see the strengths and weaknesses of various faiths in an academic,
:12:39. > :12:42.honest and open manner. This would bring out natural integration
:12:43. > :12:45.without imposing it on the children. Docking of imposition, we have
:12:46. > :12:49.spoken to Richard docking is on this programme and he has said that a
:12:50. > :12:55.parent forcing their children into a faith school is tantamount to child
:12:56. > :13:00.at risk. -- Richard Dawkins. -- child abuse. It brings up the idea,
:13:01. > :13:03.are you narrowing a child's opportunity to be integrated into
:13:04. > :13:11.wider society by just sending them to a faith school, to be among
:13:12. > :13:14.like-minded people and not in a community reflected by a wider
:13:15. > :13:20.society. Richard is a wonderful scientist but less of a philosopher
:13:21. > :13:26.than he thinks years. I think if I had a daughter, I would send her to
:13:27. > :13:30.eat in because I love the idea of making sure, if I have a son, I
:13:31. > :13:35.would send him to eat in college because I love this idea of having a
:13:36. > :13:41.big spiritual dimension, of being part of the curriculum. I think that
:13:42. > :13:46.is wonderful. But already she is raised in a Catholic way, she has
:13:47. > :13:51.attended catholic state school and guess what, that dimension is very
:13:52. > :13:57.much one of the reasons why we decided to send her to a catholic
:13:58. > :14:05.state school, because we wanted her to be that much more open to what
:14:06. > :14:13.the world and beyond the world could bring. My experience, of doing an
:14:14. > :14:16.assembly at catholic schools, it has been very warm, and open and
:14:17. > :14:22.embracing. I was very impressed. The reason is this. The aspect of
:14:23. > :14:25.education that people forget, the idea of respect. Respect is not a
:14:26. > :14:29.minor thing. It is not an old-fashioned world. It simply says
:14:30. > :14:33.that when a youngster shows respect to a particular subject or the
:14:34. > :14:36.subject carrier, straightaway the daughter of communication opens up
:14:37. > :14:42.and they can interact warmly with each other. When I say respect, it
:14:43. > :14:46.is important to work out whether a school has an in-built ethos of
:14:47. > :14:55.respect. Eton College has two things I like, respect and discipline.
:14:56. > :15:00.Schools that invite you, presumably, will be by definition those that are
:15:01. > :15:04.more inclusive. But the reality is that there is a broad spectrum from
:15:05. > :15:08.positive to negative of different faith schools in our country. But
:15:09. > :15:15.faith schools are the only schools that occupy the negative end of the
:15:16. > :15:18.spectrum in that... What about the Trojan horse schools? That was an
:15:19. > :15:22.interesting example of schools where the governing body had been taken
:15:23. > :15:29.over by people with strong religious agendas. But they were state
:15:30. > :15:32.schools, secondary schools. This was an incredible example of how secular
:15:33. > :15:36.schools could be much more narrow-minded. But the law was able
:15:37. > :15:38.to intervene and stop that from happening. If the same thing had
:15:39. > :15:43.been happening at state faith schools they would have been legal.
:15:44. > :15:54.It is important to understand that faith schools have the same system
:15:55. > :16:01.of inspection as regular schools Except in addition they have an
:16:02. > :16:05.additional level of requirement. An outstanding school in this country
:16:06. > :16:08.at the moment will not require further inspection, but an
:16:09. > :16:11.outstanding faith school does so. Keeping and monitoring what's going
:16:12. > :16:16.on inside state schools is a far better system than trying to
:16:17. > :16:19.suddenly push it away. If we stopped having faith education in this
:16:20. > :16:24.country through the faith system, we will push it out and lint be in an
:16:25. > :16:32.unmonitored environment. That's potentially horrific. Andrew? Ofsted
:16:33. > :16:34.do not inspect the religious elements of favourite schools, but
:16:35. > :16:38.rather than seeing that as a good thing as you do, I think that's a
:16:39. > :16:40.negative thing. One of the things that the British Humanist
:16:41. > :16:44.Association and others have been campaigning for is for off said to
:16:45. > :16:49.examine those parts of religious schools. When I was on the religious
:16:50. > :16:56.education council for ten years I went to see RE in lots of faith
:16:57. > :17:02.schools and saw lots of lots of good practice but also really bad
:17:03. > :17:04.practice. I think it is a disadvantage of state schools.
:17:05. > :17:06.You've been sending us your texts and tweets on this.
:17:07. > :17:08.Let's hear some of your reactions from Tommy.
:17:09. > :17:17.Loots of people are saying how faith schools should be abolished to avoid
:17:18. > :17:20.segregation. A few people are saying faith schools should exist just to
:17:21. > :18:22.give parents a choice. One of the commentses that that
:18:23. > :18:27.religion needs to be taught in all our schools? I believe that. It
:18:28. > :18:30.should be on the curriculum in every state school. One of my objections
:18:31. > :18:34.to state faith schools is the way the law allows them to their o their
:18:35. > :18:40.curriculum. That's a mistake. Children need to learn about a fuel
:18:41. > :18:45.range of religions and beliefs in an open and objective atmosphere. I
:18:46. > :18:50.think the vast majority of schools teach a range of religions. Whether
:18:51. > :18:52.humanism is included is a discussion for another time. It's been
:18:53. > :18:56.highlighted this discussion about the cap is really a discussion about
:18:57. > :19:00.whether settle there should be faith schools or not and whether that
:19:01. > :19:04.limits the opportunities for our students and whether removing faith
:19:05. > :19:07.schools would promote more tolerance in our society. All the evidence
:19:08. > :19:10.suggest the opposite. You take a look at societies like France, for
:19:11. > :19:15.example, where there are no religious faith schools. But yet
:19:16. > :19:19.radicalism and a lack of tolerance is going through the roof. So it
:19:20. > :19:22.isn't about removing faith schools. It's about ensuring that we have
:19:23. > :19:26.effective education within our schools. And bad examples of that
:19:27. > :19:31.exist within faith school systems and indeed outside of it. Those have
:19:32. > :19:36.to be addressed, but removing opportunities is not the solution.
:19:37. > :19:41.Jay, a final word. A short word, please. We have the best social
:19:42. > :19:48.democracy the world has ever seen. It is necessary to promote a spirit
:19:49. > :19:52.ideal democracy in our system. Thank you for your thoughts. It is going
:19:53. > :19:53.to remain interesting. Keep your thoughts coming in.
:19:54. > :19:56.Still to come on Sunday Morning Live: Alan Titchmarsh tells Tommy
:19:57. > :19:59.about trading gardening secrets with Nelson Mandela.
:20:00. > :20:07.He told me the story about how important plants were to him. He
:20:08. > :20:12.said, when I was in Robben Island the prison yard I had two tomato
:20:13. > :20:14.plants I grew in the corner. They were the only thing in my life that
:20:15. > :20:18.I had any control over. Racism and homophobia are taken
:20:19. > :20:21.seriously as hate crimes, but sexism is often dismissed
:20:22. > :20:24.as "banter" or harmless. Now, Nottinghamshire Police has
:20:25. > :20:26.become the first force in the country to record harassment
:20:27. > :20:29.of women as a hate crime. The policy was officially launched
:20:30. > :20:33.in May, and now could be taken up by other police forces including
:20:34. > :20:36.Devon and Cornwall, In the first month, the force
:20:37. > :20:41.received 21 reports of misogynistic hate crime,
:20:42. > :20:44.which included verbal abuse, threats of violence, assault
:20:45. > :20:54.and unwanted physical contact. What's the difference
:20:55. > :20:56.between an admiring glance And is it the kind of behaviour that
:20:57. > :21:00.can be policed? Tommy took to the streets
:21:01. > :21:05.of Nottingham to see how people I'm in Nottingham where sexual
:21:06. > :21:10.harassment is the now recorded as a hate crime. It is equal to that of
:21:11. > :21:14.racism and homophobia. But what I want to know is do people around
:21:15. > :21:19.here think that the likes of wolf whistling is just the banter of
:21:20. > :21:24.merry men, or should we be taking this sort of sexism a little more
:21:25. > :21:30.seriously. Have you ever been wolf whistled at or jeered at by guys? I
:21:31. > :21:36.have actually. It seems inappropriate. Yes, I find it
:21:37. > :21:41.creepy. I would rather came up to me and talked to me rather than wolf
:21:42. > :21:47.whistling. If someone wolf whistles you it is a compliment. It gist you
:21:48. > :21:55.a boost. It is not sexual or a hate crime. When should women take it to
:21:56. > :22:00.as a compliment or feel it is a step too far. If they are walking past
:22:01. > :22:05.builders and hear a wolf whistle, leave it as that. If there's more,
:22:06. > :22:10.that's crossing the line. Sometimes they are showing off and they are
:22:11. > :22:14.harmless but if they come up to you and don't leave you alone, that's
:22:15. > :22:20.pretty bad. What about a grope on the bottom? That's different. You
:22:21. > :22:24.shouldn't be touched. Should schools be doing Minister to educate guys in
:22:25. > :22:27.particular about harassment and how to talk to women, and sexism?
:22:28. > :22:32.Definitely, the earlier you start the better. It is all down the
:22:33. > :22:39.parents and how people are raised as to what's acceptable and what isn't.
:22:40. > :22:43.Has the law gone too far? In my eyes, it probably has. At the end of
:22:44. > :22:49.the day it's a bit of fun. The police should get involved. In this
:22:50. > :22:54.day and age everything has changed from how it was in my day,
:22:55. > :22:57.yesteryear. How are they going to police that? If someone wolf
:22:58. > :23:03.whistles you, you will be arrested? That's ridiculous. I've had issues
:23:04. > :23:08.when I've been wolf whistled at and ignored and then further approached.
:23:09. > :23:14.They come up to me and I say no. And when they don't stop, that's when it
:23:15. > :23:18.becomes an issue. If it is intense sexual harassment, yes, but if it is
:23:19. > :23:20.whistles, that's not as important as serious crimes that are going on at
:23:21. > :23:21.the moment. We're joined now by
:23:22. > :23:25.radio presenter for Talk2meradio.com Jon Gaunt, and
:23:26. > :23:28.journalist and feminist Sarah Ditum. Also joining us down the line
:23:29. > :23:30.from our Nottingham studio, one of the women who was at
:23:31. > :23:33.the forefront of the campaign for classification of sexism
:23:34. > :23:35.as a hate crime there, Nottingham Women's Centre
:23:36. > :23:44.manager Melanie Jeffs. Thank you very much for joining us,
:23:45. > :23:49.Melanie. Thank you. Jon, how would you define a hate crime? That's a
:23:50. > :23:54.difficult question. The way it's defined by law, as I understand it,
:23:55. > :23:57.if the person believes it is a hate crime, I think there's too much
:23:58. > :24:01.emphasis on this. I think the police have many more important things to
:24:02. > :24:06.worry about. Clearly we have laws already for racism. We have laws for
:24:07. > :24:12.assault. Those are laws that are in place. I think this overobsession
:24:13. > :24:17.with political correctness is just absolute nonsense. I can't define
:24:18. > :24:23.it. This lady you have got, or the woman, should I say, maybe she can
:24:24. > :24:28.define it. We'll all have different definitions. That's the problem in
:24:29. > :24:32.this area. If anything it causes more trouble. I would hazard a guess
:24:33. > :24:37.that Nottinghamshire place have more important things to do. Sarah? I'm
:24:38. > :24:44.astonished to hear that hate crimes are so hard to define when we've
:24:45. > :24:50.been monitoring them and surviving them for years now. For some reason
:24:51. > :24:56.out of all of the identities that are systematically victimised, women
:24:57. > :25:00.have been left out. We've monitored for race, religion, sexuality, if
:25:01. > :25:06.you if you are a woman and you are attacked because you are a woman,
:25:07. > :25:10.there hasn't been a system for registering it now. You would know,
:25:11. > :25:14.if you had read the literature. I would love to know. Enlighten me.
:25:15. > :25:18.I'm going to enlighten you with Melanie down the line. She's been
:25:19. > :25:22.involved in this and working with the police have to this classified
:25:23. > :25:29.as hate crime. What's the main point of this? This is about behaviour
:25:30. > :25:32.that a man pert traits towards a woman because of her gender. It is
:25:33. > :25:35.dependent on what the victim believes to be offensive and
:25:36. > :25:38.threatening to her, or not. It is important to note that in terms of
:25:39. > :25:43.the crimes and offences that have come through to the police so far we
:25:44. > :25:46.haven't had one instance of wolf whistling. We've had serious sexual
:25:47. > :25:51.assaults. Harassment, public order offences. What this has done has
:25:52. > :25:54.given women the confidence to come forward and report things that are
:25:55. > :25:58.already crimes but previously they felt were things they have to put up
:25:59. > :26:04.with and deal with just because they are women. I agree with that. You
:26:05. > :26:11.booked me today to talk about should wolf whistling be a hate crime, to
:26:12. > :26:17.which my answer is no. Not many people do it now. I spoke to my
:26:18. > :26:22.mates and they said what sort of winker would do that, yeah? I have
:26:23. > :26:26.two daughters myself, but if we are go to talk about hate crimes, are we
:26:27. > :26:32.going to look at the Muslim religion in this country, where women are
:26:33. > :26:38.treated as second class citizens, where women go around in burkhas or
:26:39. > :26:42.hijabs. They are the real hate crimes. Let's get real and talk
:26:43. > :26:45.about that. If a woman has been sexually assaulted, if it were my
:26:46. > :26:51.daughter, I would want the full weight of the law to come down. My
:26:52. > :26:58.daughter is at Oxford University and she talks about the rape culture
:26:59. > :27:02.there, whether it is testosterone young men who think they can get a
:27:03. > :27:07.woman drunk and screw her. That's the real problem. I was booked
:27:08. > :27:11.because you were telling me it was about wolf whistling and sexist
:27:12. > :27:14.banter. All of which I don't like, it is unpleasant and it is really
:27:15. > :27:18.unpleasant for a woman to hear and we should stop it. And we are
:27:19. > :27:23.talking about the level of political correctness as well. Jay, this is
:27:24. > :27:27.what we are talking about. How far do we go in our complaints and
:27:28. > :27:34.sensitivities. We are not talking about whether it is OK for a woman
:27:35. > :27:41.to be treated as a second class citizen or rape... Or the Labour
:27:42. > :27:45.Party. In Birmingham in the last election, I find it sexist and
:27:46. > :27:49.illegal and it should be stopped. This is talking about levels of
:27:50. > :27:53.political correctness. You you have to be careful, as it disturbs the
:27:54. > :27:58.social fabric. At the same time protect the women as thousands of
:27:59. > :28:02.viewers suffered tremendous abuse, so it is necessary to put a
:28:03. > :28:06.protective measure in place. I agree with that. A better way of doing
:28:07. > :28:10.this, rather than policing it, as it is a subjective element. The way to
:28:11. > :28:14.do this according to me would be to empower the women to stand up for
:28:15. > :28:19.their own rights. That's what we are teaching. If you allow that to
:28:20. > :28:25.happen, then the pendulum will swing the other way. You may think women
:28:26. > :28:29.are always down trodden, but if you do a survey in this country and see
:28:30. > :28:34.who is ruling the roost in the home, in every home in England, you will
:28:35. > :28:40.find it's the women. The reason is simple... That is simply not the
:28:41. > :28:46.same thing as having political power and that is no recommend on pence
:28:47. > :28:54.for the fact that two of us are murdered every week because we are
:28:55. > :28:57.women. The easiest way to empower women to stand up, to stand their
:28:58. > :29:02.ground. That's the best way of reacting. Cristina, there is also
:29:03. > :29:05.the issue of men experiencing sexism. Should they be afforded the
:29:06. > :29:10.same protections? We have to recognise that it can be really
:29:11. > :29:15.unpleasant to be a woman standing on a very busy tube and somebody
:29:16. > :29:22.presses against you. You just think, OMG, what do I do? Horrendous. It
:29:23. > :29:30.can be very unpleasant to be a man who because he is a man gets a slap
:29:31. > :29:35.on the bottom, or a wolf whistle. All of that can be unpleasant.
:29:36. > :29:40.Unpleasant, but should it be cat gorised as a crime? We have to step
:29:41. > :29:45.pack and say, I have a 13-year-old daughter, I want her to be able to
:29:46. > :29:51.take the tube on her own and for her to be able to navigate that very
:29:52. > :29:56.difficult path that is being in a crowded tube with lots of men going
:29:57. > :30:02.into the City while she goes to her school, and feel that she knows how
:30:03. > :30:06.to react. Absolutely. What we are talking about with monitoring
:30:07. > :30:09.misogyny as a hate crime is if a woman is sexually assaulted on the
:30:10. > :30:12.tube the police are able to record it as a hate crime. I'm just talking
:30:13. > :30:18.about somebody pressing against you... But that's irrelevant to the
:30:19. > :30:21.Nottingham initiative. It isn't about criminalising people being a
:30:22. > :30:25.bit smutty and sexist in public. It is about when a crime happens
:30:26. > :30:28.perpetrated by a man fence a woman that is specifically because she is
:30:29. > :30:33.female, it is about registering the hate crime aspect of that. You can
:30:34. > :30:41.register it as a hate crime, but what we have to be careful of, there
:30:42. > :30:44.is now a mood among young people to create safe spaces in universities
:30:45. > :30:49.which means that nothing can happen that could possibly offend anybody.
:30:50. > :30:51.Let's not pretend to ourselves that streets can become like that. That's
:30:52. > :31:00.what the Nottingham... Melanie, we're talking about whether
:31:01. > :31:05.women feel more confident in reporting these crimes. Is this part
:31:06. > :31:08.of this initiative? If I can pick up the point about women needing to be
:31:09. > :31:12.empowered, it is worrying when you start to put the emphasis on the
:31:13. > :31:15.women and say that they need to deal with it. But having this in place,
:31:16. > :31:18.women have told me it makes them feel like they have this in their
:31:19. > :31:21.back pocket and they can stand taller in the street because they
:31:22. > :31:27.know that if they need to use it, they can do. But it is not always
:31:28. > :31:30.safe to do that. In terms of the points made about wolf whistling,
:31:31. > :31:34.remember that every single wolf whistle reminds a woman of her
:31:35. > :31:39.position as a piece of public property in the street for men to
:31:40. > :31:47.look at and judge. Even if women... You are mixing really serious crimes
:31:48. > :31:53.with something as light and frivolous as a wolf whistle. By
:31:54. > :31:57.doing that, you are belittling the point. It is like Emily Thornbury
:31:58. > :32:03.getting an Sky News and not being able to answer to the French Foreign
:32:04. > :32:05.Minister was. And then she said to the newscaster, you're sexist. That
:32:06. > :32:10.is exactly the kind of thing we should be getting away from. The
:32:11. > :32:14.initiative is not helping. But we do not have these discussions when we
:32:15. > :32:18.are talking about race or homophobia. For some reason women
:32:19. > :32:22.have always been taught that they have to deal with this. This is the
:32:23. > :32:25.backdrop of your lives from the moment you are nine or ten, until
:32:26. > :32:29.you are so old that you are invisible so why is it so difficult
:32:30. > :32:35.for us to stand up and give women the confidence to walk through the
:32:36. > :32:38.streets without being judged by men? We do have those discussions. And I
:32:39. > :32:41.have been doing phone in radio for 30 years. Things have got better for
:32:42. > :32:46.the groups she talked about and rightly so. I am a father of two
:32:47. > :32:51.daughters and I want them to be treated fairly. We have a mayor in
:32:52. > :32:57.London who has banned pictures of scantily dressed women on the tube.
:32:58. > :33:02.It is just nonsense. We're not living in Saudi Arabia. We all
:33:03. > :33:05.objectify sometimes, not me, but we objectify other people and their
:33:06. > :33:10.figures. Later a member the Pepsi-Cola advert, I know there is a
:33:11. > :33:17.paladin going on here because men are traditionally in charge, but it
:33:18. > :33:22.is a change in politics and rightly so. -- a power thing going on here.
:33:23. > :33:28.And there is a change in politics with the Ukip leader being a woman
:33:29. > :33:32.and Nicola what surname. I want a meritocracy and I want women to get
:33:33. > :33:36.on but let's keep it in perspective. You're not want to carry an injury
:33:37. > :33:42.because some moron does a wolf whistle. Most people, men included,
:33:43. > :33:46.and I live in the real world with working-class men, they tell me that
:33:47. > :33:52.they would go mad if they saw another blog do that because they
:33:53. > :33:57.think they are idiots. -- another bloke do that. Tommy, I imagine lots
:33:58. > :33:58.of reaction on Twitter? It has gone crazy. Many agree that harassment is
:33:59. > :34:02.a crime. Sally says, enough is enough, of
:34:03. > :35:10.course sexism is a hate crime. Is that what it is? Stewart's
:35:11. > :35:15.comment, saying that we raised... We raised our eyebrows at that. To
:35:16. > :35:20.imagine that there is any equality in a society where as a woman you go
:35:21. > :35:23.on TV and I will certainly go on Twitter and have monstrous comments
:35:24. > :35:28.about the way I look, in a way that you guys will not get. I will be
:35:29. > :35:33.judged on my appearance and presentation and things will be
:35:34. > :35:36.found wanting about me because I am female. To say there is no issue
:35:37. > :35:40.with sexism in society where every time a woman wants to enter public
:35:41. > :35:45.life, to the extent of leaving your house, you have to confront that.
:35:46. > :35:53.Neither one of us said that this is not an issue. To say that endemic
:35:54. > :35:57.street level harassment is not a problem is crazy. It is a problem. I
:35:58. > :36:01.am saying, let's not try to legislate to create this nirvana of
:36:02. > :36:05.a safe street. But we're not legislating against that stuff,
:36:06. > :36:07.we're talking about making the connection between misogynistic
:36:08. > :36:13.demotivated acts of violence, recording them and seeing a pattern,
:36:14. > :36:17.and being able... Your definition of an act of violence is too wide
:36:18. > :36:21.ranging. I have not defined wolf whistling as an act of violence. I
:36:22. > :36:26.have faith in womankind. They are coming back in force, with
:36:27. > :36:35.vengeance. I am more worried about the role of men in society in days
:36:36. > :36:38.to come. Thank you so much. Melanie, thank you so much as well.
:36:39. > :36:41.Most of us will know Alan Titchmarsh as the driving force
:36:42. > :36:43.of the television gardening world who taught us how to plant petunias
:36:44. > :36:46.and nurture our seedlings, but nowadays, he's equally well
:36:47. > :36:49.known to some as a writer of raunchy romantic novels.
:36:50. > :36:51.Tommy went to meet Alan to talk about flowers, faith
:36:52. > :37:03.What a phenomenal career you have had, four decades in the business
:37:04. > :37:08.and countless books. Where does the drive and ambition come from? I
:37:09. > :37:19.don't know. I get told off, will you sit down?! I am generally interested
:37:20. > :37:22.in things, I am not a workaholic, I am a fan of stimulations. I am keen
:37:23. > :37:28.and I have been lucky to try lots of different things. I got sidetracked
:37:29. > :37:32.in horticultural journalism, then radio and TV and other areas. It has
:37:33. > :37:37.been a case of is somebody says, would you like to have a crack at
:37:38. > :37:41.that, and I think, all right. If I think I can do it or it will be
:37:42. > :37:47.interesting, I will have a go. You are seen as a bit of a national
:37:48. > :37:50.treasure. Do you feel like one? I am not a national institution, I should
:37:51. > :37:59.be in one! I am very flattered when people say that. Grounds Force, a
:38:00. > :38:03.phenomenon of a show. 12 million people watched it in its heyday. Is
:38:04. > :38:08.that the moment when you thought, my word, I am big-time and I have made
:38:09. > :38:13.it. I have been on television for 17 years, so I was used to the odd
:38:14. > :38:16.person saying hello. But when Ground Force went out on BBC Two, they
:38:17. > :38:21.moved it to BBC One because it was too popular. It was the Great
:38:22. > :38:25.British Bake Off of its day. It moves to BBC One and suddenly almost
:38:26. > :38:29.everybody in the street knew me and said hello. To change lives, which I
:38:30. > :38:35.profoundly believe a garden can do, is a great delight. When you look
:38:36. > :38:40.back on those years, and the things that you achieved, what stands out
:38:41. > :38:44.as a highlight? Was it flying the Spitfire? Was it doing Nelson
:38:45. > :38:48.Mandela's Garden? That was a real highlight. Tonight we are travelling
:38:49. > :38:54.to South Africa because this garden is for someone a bit special. We
:38:55. > :39:04.went there and we made a garden for Madiba, and we said, can you get him
:39:05. > :39:08.back for five o'clock on day three. And they said, he is in Washington
:39:09. > :39:14.with President Clinton, so we will try. At five o'clock that day, the
:39:15. > :39:18.motorcade came down the road, and my heart was going like crazy. He came
:39:19. > :39:26.out of the corner and it was lovely. He had the most quiet, enormous
:39:27. > :39:32.charisma. Grace, he had. He told me the story about how important plants
:39:33. > :39:37.were to him. And he said, when I was in Robben Island, the prison yard, I
:39:38. > :39:39.had two tomato plants that I grew in the corner, and it was the only
:39:40. > :39:44.thing in my life I had any control of, nothing else. And I watered them
:39:45. > :39:48.and one of them started to die. It died and eventually I give it a
:39:49. > :39:53.burial because it was so important to me. I said, I will look after
:39:54. > :40:00.this garden for as long as I can. Absolutely lovely. The writing, you
:40:01. > :40:06.are seen as a popular romantic fiction writer. Is that because
:40:07. > :40:13.there is a romantic in you? Are you quite dramatic at home? When I
:40:14. > :40:17.started writing fiction in 1998, I did not know what sort of fiction
:40:18. > :40:23.writer I would be, I just knew I wanted to tell a story. And I wrote
:40:24. > :40:28.it down. And then, or crumbs, I think I am a romantic novelist. It
:40:29. > :40:31.is often used as a pejorative term but actually it is what life is
:40:32. > :40:38.about. It is the substance and staff of life. My new book is about a
:40:39. > :40:43.middle-aged man. It is interesting because I started off with a 30 hero
:40:44. > :40:48.in my first novel and I am now writing about mid 50s. I am lying
:40:49. > :40:50.about my age now. I have suddenly realised that my heroes have grown
:40:51. > :40:55.up with me and I now write about older men. Let's talk about your
:40:56. > :41:00.faith. You were acquired by, a bell ringer in the church. The church,
:41:01. > :41:05.still an important part of your life? It is a strong part of my
:41:06. > :41:10.life. I was a choir boy, church twice on Sunday and Sunday school.
:41:11. > :41:16.And then I left and went to college. And then you realise, actually, for
:41:17. > :41:20.me it has been the bedrock of my life in a very quiet way. I am not
:41:21. > :41:28.remotely evangelical or a tub thumper but I try and live by
:41:29. > :41:34.example in a way. But not in a holier than thou way. My faith gives
:41:35. > :41:41.me an enormous solace. I pray every day. Every night. Because it is part
:41:42. > :41:50.of who I am. But I don't feel the need to ram it down folks throats. I
:41:51. > :41:53.think that is off-putting. Like what I do, gardening, I want to show
:41:54. > :41:57.people how lovely it is without telling them that they really need
:41:58. > :42:02.to do it. I seldom talk about it. That is the same way I feel about my
:42:03. > :42:09.face. I believe strongly, and it has got me through some things. But that
:42:10. > :42:13.is enough. It sounds like you use your garden and gardening to remind
:42:14. > :42:20.yourself of where you belong and how you fit into everything. Entirely.
:42:21. > :42:24.Does it keep you in check? It gives me a sense of balance and
:42:25. > :42:27.proportion. It reminds you that you are just a tiny little cog. You
:42:28. > :42:35.might be on the telly and all that, but I don't feel like that. Not
:42:36. > :42:40.shortly. I do go out every morning and open the curtains and look out
:42:41. > :42:44.and I look at one and a look at my topiary, and I walk around the back
:42:45. > :42:49.into the wild flower meadow. Everyday, several times a day.
:42:50. > :42:54.Without it, I would shrivel. That is life for me. That is it and that is
:42:55. > :42:58.what makes me happy. And fulfilled. And content. The titillating Alan
:42:59. > :43:03.Titchmarsh. -- titillating. Taking cannabis for medical reasons
:43:04. > :43:06.should be made legal, The All Party Parliamentary Group
:43:07. > :43:09.for Drug Policy Reform wants the Home Office to reclassify herbal
:43:10. > :43:12.cannabis under existing drug laws, putting it in the same category
:43:13. > :43:15.as steroids and sedatives. This would mean doctors could
:43:16. > :43:17.prescribe cannabis to patients, Patients might even be allowed
:43:18. > :43:21.to grow limited amounts of cannabis At the moment, anyone
:43:22. > :43:26.using the drug, even for medical reasons,
:43:27. > :43:28.could be charged for possession. The NHS warns that cannabis use
:43:29. > :43:31.carries a number of risks, including harm to mental health,
:43:32. > :43:39.fertility or unborn babies. The Government has also
:43:40. > :43:41.stated there are no plans But is it time to change how
:43:42. > :43:46.we think about drugs and move towards a more
:43:47. > :43:48.relaxed attitude like some Do the benefits of medical
:43:49. > :43:51.cannabis outweigh the risks? Our final discussion -
:43:52. > :43:54.should cannabis be legalised? We're joined now by
:43:55. > :43:56.Baroness Molly Meacher, co-chair of the All Party
:43:57. > :43:58.Parliamentary Group And we are re-joined
:43:59. > :44:03.by Andrew Copson of the British We're also joined down the line
:44:04. > :44:07.from our Glasgow studio by Professor Neil McKeganey,
:44:08. > :44:09.founder of the Centre for Drug Misuse at the
:44:10. > :44:23.University of Glasgow. Molly, you co-chaired this group.
:44:24. > :44:28.What prompted the report? I think an increasing awareness that across the
:44:29. > :44:34.world, the Western world, cannabis for medical use has been legalised
:44:35. > :44:37.because the evidence base is now very, very strong indeed. So we
:44:38. > :44:44.commissioned Professor Mike Barnes to do a review of all the research
:44:45. > :44:47.undertaken across the world on the benefits of medicinal cannabis and
:44:48. > :44:51.also the side-effects, and his report came out on Tuesday along
:44:52. > :44:57.with our enquiry report, showing again, very clearly, that for
:44:58. > :45:02.chronic pain, things like arthritis in particular, there is now a good
:45:03. > :45:08.evidence base across the world that medicinal cannabis works. Also for
:45:09. > :45:12.nausea, for the horrible side-effects one can get from
:45:13. > :45:16.chemotherapy, if you have cancer for example. Patients at the moment risk
:45:17. > :45:18.going to the illegal drug dealers and getting the wrong kind of
:45:19. > :45:28.cannabis, which is bad for them. When talking to people in chronic
:45:29. > :45:35.pain this is off an last resort after having exhausted other medical
:45:36. > :45:39.areas. Cristina, should it be legalised to alleviate this pain?
:45:40. > :45:45.Medical cannabis. I can't bear the thought of Andrew being in pain. He
:45:46. > :45:51.is going to discuss how his arthritis could be alleviated by
:45:52. > :45:58.smoking weed. However... Not smoking weed, if I may put it correctly.
:45:59. > :46:11.Using marijuana. Using medicinal cannabis. I'm sorry, we have to get
:46:12. > :46:16.it right. Medicines made from... The problem is cannabis is there's a lot
:46:17. > :46:23.of evidence that's been surfacing saying it leads to depression and
:46:24. > :46:28.anxiety, it alters the mind so much that young people doing weed can do
:46:29. > :46:34.all sorts of stuff they wouldn't do... We are not talking about young
:46:35. > :46:38.people smoking weed. No, what we are saying is let's legalise a used for
:46:39. > :46:43.cannabis. The problem with that is we are saying that at some level
:46:44. > :46:51.cannabis is no longer considered as dangerous or as toxic as it is now.
:46:52. > :46:55.Let's talk to Professor Neil McKeganey in Glasgow. You work at
:46:56. > :46:58.the centre for substance use research and you've seen this
:46:59. > :47:02.report. We've been talking about the effect of substance use. What are
:47:03. > :47:06.your conclusions and reaction to this report? Well, I think the
:47:07. > :47:09.report should have a health warning, as is the case for many reports they
:47:10. > :47:15.tend to be written with an agenda in mind. This is a report which is
:47:16. > :47:18.chaired by individuals who favour drugs decriminalisation and it
:47:19. > :47:23.underplays some of the harms. It acknowledges for example that one in
:47:24. > :47:27.10 people may become dependent on cannabis but skates over and doesn't
:47:28. > :47:31.mention at all that figure goes up to 17% if you start to use cannabis
:47:32. > :47:37.in your teenage years, and one in two if you are using cannabis every
:47:38. > :47:41.day. So there are serious harms associated with cannabis. I'm wary
:47:42. > :47:45.actually of any policy which might result in much wider use of the
:47:46. > :47:51.drug. The report is good in calling for more research but it is rather
:47:52. > :47:54.incautious in advocating that home-grown cannabis should be
:47:55. > :47:59.allowed. You can't have it both ways really. You can't say we need more
:48:00. > :48:05.research to find the evidence and then leap to a policy recommendation
:48:06. > :48:10.which favours wide-spread use of the drug, or the drug being grown
:48:11. > :48:14.legally in people's homes. It is incautious but it is value in its
:48:15. > :48:21.acknowledgement that we need more research. Andrew? My view is more
:48:22. > :48:26.general. I wasn't going to talk about, thank for Cristina for outing
:48:27. > :48:31.me as an arthritis sufferer. I'm sorry. Not at all, although I'm
:48:32. > :48:35.interested in the report's suggestions. I think that for the
:48:36. > :48:42.medical use, the case is pretty clear cut. I think if cannabis
:48:43. > :48:48.weren't used as a recreational drug but had been developed in a lab or
:48:49. > :48:53.in some other way for its therapeutic use it would be
:48:54. > :48:56.prescribed right now. Its use as a recreational drug is what people
:48:57. > :49:00.think is the problem. More generally, obviously I take a
:49:01. > :49:03.humanist view of public ethical issues, I want to look at the
:49:04. > :49:09.science and the Ed. But in relation to the drugs we should think about
:49:10. > :49:14.what the law is for. I think the only justifiable reason to take
:49:15. > :49:19.someone's freedom away by law is to prevent them doing harm to others. I
:49:20. > :49:24.think that in relation to our drugs law we have to ask, are we using the
:49:25. > :49:27.law in a responsible way or are we taking people's freedom away because
:49:28. > :49:33.we don't like what they might do with it, these things are taboo? I
:49:34. > :49:37.have smoked marijuana many times in my youth and taken our drugs as
:49:38. > :49:41.well. I think all drugs are ridiculous. But who am I to stop
:49:42. > :49:44.somebody if they are in pain and they think it helps them? But I
:49:45. > :49:49.think the law is probably OK where it is. I don't think, if I wanted to
:49:50. > :49:54.go and get marijuana now, I don't know about you, madam, I can go and
:49:55. > :49:59.get it like this. I know my daughter could get it like that. I don't
:50:00. > :50:02.think we need to change the law or decriminalise it. I think the chap
:50:03. > :50:09.in Edinburgh is right, we need to look at more research into it. When
:50:10. > :50:18.you think about some of the drugs the big pharms give us, we have to
:50:19. > :50:21.be careful about slagging off cannabis which is a naturally
:50:22. > :50:26.occurring substance. We need a level playing field here. It is one of
:50:27. > :50:29.these arguments where people go on about drugs, let's change the
:50:30. > :50:33.policy, and we are going to criminalise somebody suffering with
:50:34. > :50:36.arthritis. When was the last time somebody with arthritis was wheeled
:50:37. > :50:42.into a court and prosecuted for smoking dope or making a dope cake?
:50:43. > :50:47.Answer? Never. It is not going to happen, mate. You don't need to
:50:48. > :50:55.worry about it. The point being if you need access or want access to
:50:56. > :50:59.cannabis, it is accessible. It is accessible from illegal drug
:51:00. > :51:03.dealerses who will sell you cannabis with high levels of THC, the active
:51:04. > :51:07.ingredient. And that particular cannabis will be extremely bad for
:51:08. > :51:11.you if you have certain conditions. It may be reasonably good for you if
:51:12. > :51:16.you have certain other conditions, but anyway you are risking arrest.
:51:17. > :51:21.There are people in prison today for possession and use of cannabis.
:51:22. > :51:24.Actually it does happen if you are repeatedly caught. What about the
:51:25. > :51:29.defence of using it for medical reasons and they've gone to prison?
:51:30. > :51:33.Yes. You can point to cases can you? Look... Forgive me. I've done this
:51:34. > :51:39.debate for 30 years. I don't think there is anybody. Can you point to
:51:40. > :51:43.somebody who is in prison who was taking it for medicinal reasons.
:51:44. > :51:49.Surely you must know someone. You know a number of patients who are
:51:50. > :51:54.taking cannabis for medicinal cannabis. Lara, who was on the
:51:55. > :52:03.Victoria Derbyshire show, she is going to the Netherlands, because
:52:04. > :52:07.that's the only way she can get the cannabis legally. I don't know all
:52:08. > :52:13.these people. So you don't know anyone. Of course I don't know
:52:14. > :52:18.everyone. It is much more important. Let Molly finish her point. It is
:52:19. > :52:24.very important that very, very sick people like Lara, who uses, what do
:52:25. > :52:30.you call them... Sorry. Crutches. She uses crutches. She has to use to
:52:31. > :52:37.the Netherlands four times a year with letters from the Border Agency
:52:38. > :52:40.and MRHA to get a prescription here, go to the Netherlands, get a
:52:41. > :52:44.prescription there and travel back in order to control some of her
:52:45. > :52:49.pain. She's in such appalling pain that it is impossible to control her
:52:50. > :52:53.pain. She was prescribed 34 different medications before she
:52:54. > :53:01.ever tried cannabis. Neil, you are listening and you want to respond.
:53:02. > :53:05.Neil? I do think we should be very careful before advocating medical
:53:06. > :53:11.cannabis to be made available. In the United States those states that
:53:12. > :53:16.have legalised medical cannabis have more medical cannabis outlets than
:53:17. > :53:21.Starbucks, McDonald's and seven 11s combined. They've seen an explosion
:53:22. > :53:24.in medical cannabis retail outlets. That's the anxiety here, that once
:53:25. > :53:29.you attach the label that it is a medical treatment that can be much
:53:30. > :53:33.more widely available, it leaks out much more widely than you ever
:53:34. > :53:38.control into recreational use. That's why we do need the barriers
:53:39. > :53:42.to be in place. We shouldn't relax them, even though I absolutely
:53:43. > :53:47.accept we need more research. I'm intrigued as to what our viewers are
:53:48. > :53:51.thinking. Tommy? A lot of people are agreeing, saying it should be time
:53:52. > :53:56.to legalise cannabis for medical reasons. Some have expressed
:53:57. > :54:39.concerns over the health impact and how it is legislated.
:54:40. > :54:49.Andrew? All I was going to say when Molly was speaking, the point that
:54:50. > :54:58.George Osborne was making illustrates the hop oxy of the
:54:59. > :55:03.situation, rather It's the same where I live. There are people
:55:04. > :55:09.smoking cannabis on the street. I sometimes get stoned on my way to
:55:10. > :55:13.the bus! The law is widely flouted. If we allow that to happen, they are
:55:14. > :55:17.not good laws. If we are not willing to police a law that we have,
:55:18. > :55:24.perhaps we should think about a case for change. We have Chief
:55:25. > :55:29.Constables... Sorry, I did let you finish. We have police Chief
:55:30. > :55:32.Constables who've unilaterally decided to legalise cannabis. But
:55:33. > :55:41.you were arguing that that's a good thing. It is no a Chief Constable's
:55:42. > :55:43.role to do that. I'm going to end this conversation, because time is
:55:44. > :55:48.always against us. That's just about all
:55:49. > :55:50.from us for today. Many thanks to all our guests
:55:51. > :55:52.and to you for taking part. Wednesday 21st September
:55:53. > :55:55.is UN World Peace Day - a global day of ceasefire
:55:56. > :55:57.and reconciliation which was championed by the non-profit
:55:58. > :55:59.organisation Peace One Day. Here, singing us out
:56:00. > :56:01.with their anthem for 2016 - "I Wish" - is X Factor
:56:02. > :56:10.star Jahmene Douglas. You are really going to enjoy it.
:56:11. > :56:14.Have a good day. # I wish that this
:56:15. > :56:30.world was one world # I wish that love
:56:31. > :56:36.ruled on this earth # That everyone would try to take
:56:37. > :56:45.some time to show some kindness # That every life would be a life
:56:46. > :57:24.that knows no loneliness # And I wish that all of us
:57:25. > :57:27.could live in a world # I know it's just a dream,
:57:28. > :57:36.but I wish this could be # But only faith can help us
:57:37. > :57:54.through these troubled times # I wish that this
:57:55. > :58:01.world was one world # I wish that love
:58:02. > :58:13.ruled on this earth # And I wish that there
:58:14. > :58:16.would be no wars # And I wish that no-one
:58:17. > :58:19.had to hurt no more # And I wish that everyone can see
:58:20. > :58:24.only love is worth fighting for # And I wish that all of us
:58:25. > :58:32.could live in a world # And I know it's just a dream,
:58:33. > :58:46.but I wish this could be