:00:00. > :00:10.As the 2 billionth user signs up to Facebook,
:00:11. > :00:15.we'll ask if we could live without social media?
:00:16. > :00:21.I think it's good, and a great way for people to keep in contact with
:00:22. > :00:27.each other and see what's happening. It's the way the world is going, but
:00:28. > :00:30.it's wrong. Tap, tap, tap. It's a sad moment, I think.
:00:31. > :00:33.A British Sikh couple have been told they can't adopt a white baby.
:00:34. > :00:36.And we talk to drama writer Jimmy McGovern,
:00:37. > :00:38.ahead of the climax of the hit drama Broken.
:00:39. > :00:43.He reveals the inspiration behind the series.
:00:44. > :00:50.It's a thing I've cherished for a long time, this notion of a priest
:00:51. > :00:53.at the heart of everything. Police, God, not this time.
:00:54. > :00:56.And Emma Barnett is here ready to let you have your say.
:00:57. > :01:02.We want you to get in touch with your views on our
:01:03. > :01:07.You can contact us by Facebook and Twitter -
:01:08. > :01:13.don't forget to use the hashtag #bbcsml.
:01:14. > :01:15.Or text SML followed by your message to 60011.
:01:16. > :01:19.Texts are charged at your standard message rate.
:01:20. > :01:23.Email us at sundaymorninglive@bbc.co.uk.
:01:24. > :01:26.However you choose to get in touch please don't forget
:01:27. > :01:29.to include your name so I can get you involved in our discussions.
:01:30. > :01:34.And here's something to get you talking -
:01:35. > :01:37.we'll be travelling to the tiny Scottish island of Eigg -
:01:38. > :01:43.home of the world's first fully renewably powered electricity grid.
:01:44. > :01:47.We don't have any power showers. You're not allowed electric showers
:01:48. > :01:58.here! Facebook reached the two billion
:01:59. > :02:01.monthly user mark this week and Mark Zuckerberg,
:02:02. > :02:03.its CEO, said "the more connected He likened the social media giant
:02:04. > :02:08.to a church in its ability Singer Katy Perry recently achieved
:02:09. > :02:14.100 million followers on Twitter. And, smartphones and personal
:02:15. > :02:18.computers of one form or another dominate many people's lives -
:02:19. > :02:21.so much so that now some health experts are suggesting we should
:02:22. > :02:23.have regular digital detoxes. But can we live
:02:24. > :02:25.without social media? Mehreen Baig who's an addicted
:02:26. > :02:54.blogger, has been trying. ALARM SOUNDS. I sleep with my mobile
:02:55. > :02:58.phone under my pillow. It's the first thing I check when I wake up
:02:59. > :03:05.in the morning. I use it as my alarm clock. And right now I have 12
:03:06. > :03:11.messages, five e-mails and a funeral to Vic and is on my Instagram,
:03:12. > :03:17.Facebook and Twitter. -- a few notifications. Now today I'm going
:03:18. > :03:23.to do a digital detox meaning I can't use my phone today. Meaning my
:03:24. > :03:27.precious communications devices go in my safe before heading off. I'm
:03:28. > :03:32.in a rush because the producer made me do extra shots, meaning and liked
:03:33. > :03:36.to meet my friend. I have no way to contact her so I hope she will still
:03:37. > :03:44.be waiting for me. Luckily I find Sophia busy shopping. It's not long
:03:45. > :03:52.before, without my phone, I start feeling a bit cut off. Time for a
:03:53. > :03:58.coffee and compare notes with severe. What you're doing today is
:03:59. > :04:02.amazing. I couldn't do it, and I tried. I turn my phone off and it
:04:03. > :04:08.lasts about five or ten minutes. I can't even do an hour. I'm really
:04:09. > :04:14.sorry, I'm literally in the middle of a group chat. I feel like I'm
:04:15. > :04:19.talking to a brick wall. Sorry! It's fine. I have nothing else
:04:20. > :04:23.distracting me. My sole focus is you but you are talking to 100 different
:04:24. > :04:28.people at the same time. I think there is a massive problem with
:04:29. > :04:32.young people today, including ourselves as young professionals,
:04:33. > :04:36.putting pictures up to get likes. It's quite worrying. It doesn't help
:04:37. > :04:42.your self-esteem. If you put a picture up and you don't get many
:04:43. > :04:46.likes, you feel rubbish. You edit, you look amazing and you put it up.
:04:47. > :04:50.You have created a portfolio of how you ideally want to like and you
:04:51. > :04:55.almost are comparing yourself to that fake version of yourself. We
:04:56. > :04:59.all branding ourselves. We are not brands, we are people. How did you
:05:00. > :05:03.find today? It's better than I expected it to be. In the morning I
:05:04. > :05:08.felt quite anxious without knowing what's going on in my day. But now I
:05:09. > :05:14.am enjoying it. I wish right now we could take a photo our matching
:05:15. > :05:19.outfits, but it's more the calling and texting and wondering, has my
:05:20. > :05:22.family tried to contact me or worked tried to contact me? I'm feeling
:05:23. > :05:29.quite good without it. I'm feeling present and in the moment. Out on
:05:30. > :05:30.the streets again and Sophia is taking my detox seriously. Not even
:05:31. > :05:44.a selfie allowed. I managed to get on a snap at last
:05:45. > :05:51.and Sample some themes. Could you stay 24 hours without your phone?
:05:52. > :05:58.No, 100%. Its life. I'm on it probably every five or ten minutes.
:05:59. > :06:02.It's addictive. I think social media turns into a habit. I'm using
:06:03. > :06:07.Facebook and Instagram, sending pictures in messenger. Kids these
:06:08. > :06:13.days, you go out for a meal, sit down, and all they want to do is
:06:14. > :06:17.pick up social media. If you couldn't use your phone for 24
:06:18. > :06:22.hours, could you do it? I couldn't think so. I use it all the time.
:06:23. > :06:26.It's something I need. It's how you contact people and stay connected
:06:27. > :06:32.with everyone. Conversation, that's what people are missing out on now.
:06:33. > :06:38.It's all this, all the time, tap, tap, tap. I've had a lovely day.
:06:39. > :06:46.Thank you so much for waiting for me. See you later. Text me. I can't!
:06:47. > :06:49.Mehreen Baig - relieved to be back online.
:06:50. > :06:52.And via the magic of technology she joins us now -
:06:53. > :07:06.Good morning. Nice to see you back online. What were the benefits of
:07:07. > :07:12.being off-line for 24 hours? The best bits were definitely, often we
:07:13. > :07:19.don't realise how distracted we are at all times. I didn't really need
:07:20. > :07:23.to know what was going on with the rest of the world, what's going on
:07:24. > :07:31.in my friends' lives. I could so totally focus on me. That was really
:07:32. > :07:34.nice. Were there negatives as well, were you frustrated at times you
:07:35. > :07:38.couldn't get in touch with certain people and see the latest news?
:07:39. > :07:46.Since I have been old enough to go out by myself I always had a phone
:07:47. > :07:49.on me. We're no use at making plans and sticking to them. You wonder how
:07:50. > :07:57.people use to meet each other before social media. I genuinely, genuinely
:07:58. > :08:02.was going to leave and go home. Apart from not finding your friend,
:08:03. > :08:09.would you introduce a digital detox into your life again? Absolutely. I
:08:10. > :08:13.think we all need days where we just don't have our phones, our faces
:08:14. > :08:17.stuck in a phone and enjoy being in the moment. I think it's good for
:08:18. > :08:18.your mental health. Thank you, good to talk to you. Thank you for having
:08:19. > :08:21.me. Let's see what our panel think -
:08:22. > :08:24.can we live without social media? Vicki Psarias is a vlogger
:08:25. > :08:27.and the founder of lifestyle Amina Lone works for an organization
:08:28. > :08:31.that aims to give women, young people and working class
:08:32. > :08:33.communities a voice. Mark Ellis is a father of four
:08:34. > :08:36.and author of "Digitox" - a book about how he tried
:08:37. > :08:54.to get his family to You have your own blog, how did it
:08:55. > :09:00.start? In 2010, at a time when I had suffered from a traumatic birth with
:09:01. > :09:03.my first child. I was TV director before and a good friend of mine,
:09:04. > :09:08.when I told her about this brave new world of parenting I found myself
:09:09. > :09:12.in, told me to write a blog and talk about these experiences. I was able
:09:13. > :09:19.to meet like-minded women I otherwise wouldn't have met. Other
:09:20. > :09:24.women who were struggling. You are breast-feeding at 4am and you can
:09:25. > :09:28.tweet someone else in the same position. It became my career. It's
:09:29. > :09:33.my full-time job and hopefully I am helping lots of other women because
:09:34. > :09:39.I'm a voice with integrity and they can trust me. We need that, really,
:09:40. > :09:42.and we need more of that. Incredibly important for you personally, but
:09:43. > :09:47.wouldn't it have been better to talk to somebody face to face? It was
:09:48. > :09:52.actually a catalyst to do so because I felt comfortable. You can feel
:09:53. > :09:55.very lonely as a new parent. I was able to then seek help and see a
:09:56. > :09:59.therapist to get through that trauma. But it was reading,
:10:00. > :10:06.connecting to other women and reading other blogss as well to know
:10:07. > :10:14.I wasn't alone. And also share messages about your body. I started
:10:15. > :10:21.a campaign called Proud In My Bikini that empowered plenty of other
:10:22. > :10:23.women. I posted a picture of myself in my bikini with all my
:10:24. > :10:32.stretchmarks on but I still felt good. Other women felt they were
:10:33. > :10:38.empowered by that. It transformed lives. A man in the video said it
:10:39. > :10:42.helped him stay connected. It's all good, isn't it? There are good
:10:43. > :10:46.things, but unfortunately social media is a wild horse with a will of
:10:47. > :10:51.its own and we have a belief we can partially control it. A lot of it we
:10:52. > :10:54.can't, and a lot of it can be negative. I think it encourages a
:10:55. > :10:59.lot of people seeking approval from people they don't know. It
:11:00. > :11:01.encourages people to be a little bit dishonest, boastful and
:11:02. > :11:12.self-involved about presenting themselves. There is a disconnect
:11:13. > :11:15.between reality and the image you present. You also now manipulate
:11:16. > :11:17.your own image so you are unhappy with your reality, and you are
:11:18. > :11:20.manipulated by people in the background who want more information
:11:21. > :11:26.from you. You are encouraged in intellectual laziness. You don't
:11:27. > :11:29.think about arguments. And it stunts your emotional life because you sent
:11:30. > :11:36.emoticons that as someone else has thought up for you. Sophia was
:11:37. > :11:39.worried about how many likes she would get. I do that as well.
:11:40. > :11:44.Looking on Twitter I see how many likes I get. It's worrying we base
:11:45. > :11:50.our life and self-worth on likes on social media. It's a sign of The
:11:51. > :11:54.Times. Social media isn't going to go away. We are in a technological
:11:55. > :12:00.age and young children of two or three years old are more savvy than
:12:01. > :12:06.any of us here. Is that a good thing? It's not going away. It's
:12:07. > :12:09.part of our progression. But is it a good thing? I do think it's a good
:12:10. > :12:13.thing. I think social media has brought democracy to the world. You
:12:14. > :12:17.can contact people you never have. It's giving women a voice. Women are
:12:18. > :12:22.often vilified on social media, but they still have the voice. A lot of
:12:23. > :12:25.people I have connected with and work with, I have campaigned with
:12:26. > :12:29.women I would never have met or spoken to. Isn't there a danger of
:12:30. > :12:35.one big voice saying something and we all follow. We are all courage to
:12:36. > :12:41.say the same thing decima we all encouraged to say the same things.
:12:42. > :12:46.If you want to wear something you want your friends do like it,
:12:47. > :12:51.whether you go to a party or at school. It's an amplification of
:12:52. > :12:54.that. There are definitely good and bad things about it, but if you
:12:55. > :13:00.harness it in a way that makes it work, then it's a positive overall.
:13:01. > :13:07.We had our guinea pig in the video, Mark, most families would use social
:13:08. > :13:12.media and the Internet as entertainment. But you pulled the
:13:13. > :13:16.plug. We have four children, between seven and 18. I had a dad tantrum
:13:17. > :13:22.one morning three years ago. One was watching television in the living
:13:23. > :13:26.room, one was on their computer. One had their phone out at the table and
:13:27. > :13:30.I just had a meltdown. It wasn't a planned thing. I realised we were
:13:31. > :13:37.all addicted, doing your own things and we had lost connectivity as
:13:38. > :13:40.family. Too much food is a bad thing, too much connectivity is a
:13:41. > :13:47.bad thing. In moderation it's great but it can cause anxiety. Did it
:13:48. > :13:54.work? It did. We will ask the family then... I'm joined by your family
:13:55. > :13:58.and at a safe distance you can say what you think. Caroline, you are
:13:59. > :14:02.the mother, what was it like Weston blew the first weekend was
:14:03. > :14:07.horrendous. It was like taking candy from a baby. -- what was it like?
:14:08. > :14:18.The first weekend was horrendous. It was a detox. You were 18. What were
:14:19. > :14:24.you like? Crying and tantrums. Yes, I was. I was spending a lot of time
:14:25. > :14:28.locked away in my bedroom playing computer games and spending time
:14:29. > :14:34.with my friends online. I had a really bad response. You suddenly
:14:35. > :14:43.had to find your brother may be. You were 15. Did you suddenly see each
:14:44. > :14:48.other bit more, how did you feel? I saw the effect more. I played guitar
:14:49. > :14:57.more. I went into town Moor with my friends. It was great to stop and
:14:58. > :15:01.think without the constant flow of messages and likes. Did your friends
:15:02. > :15:04.think it was weird? It does take some adjusting, but you do start to
:15:05. > :15:11.look forward to it. It is really good.
:15:12. > :15:19.Jessica, new 13, you were ten when this started. What would the
:15:20. > :15:24.downsides for you? I liked the metre with my best friend Lily at the
:15:25. > :15:28.park. I would normally text her to say would you like to meet up? I
:15:29. > :15:35.could not do that because on Sunday, we cannot use our phones. Having a
:15:36. > :15:42.sabbath. So really and other things you miss out on? I saw loads of
:15:43. > :15:49.things popping up on my phone. It was quite hard not to look for the
:15:50. > :15:55.reply. And you did not know if you had to do phone -- home work or not?
:15:56. > :16:05.That is a brilliant excuse! Noah, seven years old, we were upset to
:16:06. > :16:14.not be able to log onto anything? I found it quite hard because I liked
:16:15. > :16:21.playing Pokemon. Now I have got over it. You still seem a little bit
:16:22. > :16:27.traumatised! Thank you very much. Sean.
:16:28. > :16:34.Thank you. You can always rely on your children to stitch you opt!
:16:35. > :16:39.Noah, I could hear the violence, he cannot go on Pokemon. Jessica cannot
:16:40. > :16:43.meet up with Lily on Sunday. And Gabriel said his friends think he is
:16:44. > :16:47.a little weird. That is a joke, but their friends will be in social
:16:48. > :16:52.media. That is true and we take them away at night and sometimes I come
:16:53. > :16:56.down and SnapChat is firing after midnight. And they can pick up their
:16:57. > :17:02.phone and call their friends which they do. And it is tough, they need
:17:03. > :17:08.to learn what we are doing as well and it is infectious, other families
:17:09. > :17:12.are doing it now. Facebook only Mark Zuckerberg compared Facebook to a
:17:13. > :17:17.Church, 2 million followers, there is a good argument, is it good? It
:17:18. > :17:21.is good in moderation. It is good to keep in touch with friends in
:17:22. > :17:26.America. It is a Democratic platform, but there is inequality in
:17:27. > :17:32.the workforce and a lot of mothers have the same access to reach
:17:33. > :17:35.millions of people online is a $1 billion company. When has that
:17:36. > :17:39.happened before? I can get my art into the world and create a
:17:40. > :17:44.business. It is personally working out for you and I am sure you are
:17:45. > :17:50.making a lot of money but comparing it to a religion is a bit worrying.
:17:51. > :17:53.That is a bit extreme. We can disrupt the traditional media and
:17:54. > :17:59.have different voices, that is very powerful. The thing with Mark
:18:00. > :18:05.Zuckerberg. The think the Church or The Mask has in common is the power,
:18:06. > :18:10.control of the people, but religion is motivated by people and Facebook
:18:11. > :18:14.is motivated by profit. It is worrying and it is not part of a
:18:15. > :18:21.religion. It is about moderation and the balance. You create a blog or a
:18:22. > :18:28.website, you own that. You can get your message out there. Thankfully,
:18:29. > :18:33.we have social media so people can get in touch and Emma is over there.
:18:34. > :18:37.We do have social media, and Mark says, I am a pensioner recently
:18:38. > :18:42.introduced the social media, I could not live without it now, I would not
:18:43. > :18:46.survive a detox. Andy says he no longer feels isolated or alone in
:18:47. > :18:56.his suffering. And he says, big plus side of social media. Jonny wrote a
:18:57. > :19:01.blog on coming out as a Christian and it went viral and it enabled
:19:02. > :19:07.others to get help in the same situation. Ian says if social media
:19:08. > :19:12.has done one good thing, it has destroyed the print media is the
:19:13. > :19:15.only source of political opinion. Tim says, social media has killed
:19:16. > :19:20.human interaction. You get into the minds of your friends and you can
:19:21. > :19:24.fall out with them. If we did not have social media, you
:19:25. > :19:28.would be reading out letters! It is a good ring. We had an old person
:19:29. > :19:32.and other people who would not normally connect to like-minded
:19:33. > :19:36.people and they could do. Yes, that is not a bad point, but I've fear we
:19:37. > :19:42.will lose the ability to do face-to-face relationships. I am
:19:43. > :19:45.tired of the number of times I have been with somebody including my
:19:46. > :19:50.daughter, she's looking at her phone and not interacting with me and not
:19:51. > :19:55.hearing what I say. People walk around like zombies about to get run
:19:56. > :19:58.over, completely unaware. Having relationships in a vacuum is no
:19:59. > :20:02.substitute for real relationships and seeing body language and facial
:20:03. > :20:09.expression and vocal nuance. That is why some dating shows do not work
:20:10. > :20:14.because you cannot see them and have human contact. It needs care and
:20:15. > :20:18.mindfulness to understand how it is manipulating you. You need to be in
:20:19. > :20:23.charge of it and to use it for good and not let it overwhelm or changes.
:20:24. > :20:28.It is a group thing and you become in need of other people's approval
:20:29. > :20:33.and you accept arguments like your own, you want people to like you, it
:20:34. > :20:37.is dangerous and you have to be aware of that. Mark, people will be
:20:38. > :20:43.thinking they want at detox, give us quick points about what they should
:20:44. > :20:47.be doing. Do not have phones in the bedroom ever, adults or children, do
:20:48. > :20:52.it yourself, do not just expect the children to do it in their own. Have
:20:53. > :20:57.time out. A day if possible, but not at first, a couple of hours in the
:20:58. > :21:00.evening and spread it out, do not do the whole thing. Scribbling that
:21:01. > :21:02.down, good advice. Thank you, everybody.
:21:03. > :21:05.The gripping BBC drama 'Broken' reaches its conclusion next week.
:21:06. > :21:10.The series centres around a Catholic priest, played by Sean Bean,
:21:11. > :21:12.who deals with people's problems, while nursing private
:21:13. > :21:19.It's the work of Jimmy McGovern, the celebrated Liverpool writer
:21:20. > :21:23.who went on from the Channel 4 soap Brookside to deliver
:21:24. > :21:24.thought-provoking work such as Cracker, Hillsborough
:21:25. > :21:46.Can I come and see you sometime? Why? Because I think you are in
:21:47. > :21:53.pain. No, real pain. I am just skimmed, Father.
:21:54. > :21:58.First, Jimmy, thank you for Broken, what an extraordinary piece of work!
:21:59. > :22:05.Thank you. It started many years ago, why so long? I tried to
:22:06. > :22:13.interview a Catholic priest in Brookside in about 1985, 90 86. --
:22:14. > :22:17.90 86. That was a losing battle. A lot of other writers said, what is
:22:18. > :22:23.the point of fake? I have cherished for a long time a priest at the
:22:24. > :22:27.heart of everything. Take this, all of you, and eat of
:22:28. > :22:32.it, for this is my body which will be given up for you.
:22:33. > :22:37.I am glad I am doing it now because the Catholic Church puts a lot of
:22:38. > :22:42.effort into food banks and work with alcoholics and the destitute and the
:22:43. > :22:47.sick. They are more involved with ordinary people than they have ever
:22:48. > :22:52.been. You had to persuade Sean Bean but he was always the money wanted
:22:53. > :22:57.for this role. Yes. He has got humanity. From the very start, this
:22:58. > :23:06.is a man who will be broken. Amen.
:23:07. > :23:18.What now? I always had this thing about the title of the show. I
:23:19. > :23:22.wanted Broken. Because I always argued that when you break the
:23:23. > :23:29.bread, for me, the main reason is to remind you of a broken body in a
:23:30. > :23:33.cross. And I think that is one of the fundamentals of Christianity,
:23:34. > :23:39.the brokenness of people. I really wanted the man who could do that
:23:40. > :23:49.convincingly. Please, God, not this time.
:23:50. > :23:56.How has your own faith changed? I have no faith now. I had faked when
:23:57. > :24:01.I was about 14. -- faith. I took it seriously. But it just faded away
:24:02. > :24:06.and it has never come back. It has left me with a deep fascination
:24:07. > :24:11.about faith, especially the Catholic faith. There is drama in there. The
:24:12. > :24:16.scenes at the confessionals. The speaking from the heart. The total
:24:17. > :24:24.faith in the confidentiality of that moment. So it is the essence of
:24:25. > :24:31.drama, all that stuff. You talk about sin. And the evils of the
:24:32. > :24:36.modern age, they are not necessarily biblical evils, they are economic.
:24:37. > :24:42.That comes across very clearly in Broken. That is a motion that
:24:43. > :24:47.informs my drama a lot. You look at a person and you say, there is a
:24:48. > :24:51.person of great integrity. Nine times out of ten, that person does
:24:52. > :24:54.have great integrity, but he also has money and he can afford to do
:24:55. > :25:03.the right thing. When you are skint and you have kids to feed, to hell
:25:04. > :25:06.with integrity! You grew up in a big family, working-class family in
:25:07. > :25:11.Liverpool. What is it about this city? I don't know. I think it has
:25:12. > :25:19.been at its best in this big screw-up -- struggle over
:25:20. > :25:24.Hillsborough, almost 30 years. The spirit and camaraderie is amazing.
:25:25. > :25:28.It would power anybody's amazing -- imagination what happened with
:25:29. > :25:32.Hillsborough. How did you come to be part of that? It was the big
:25:33. > :25:37.defining point of my life. I can analyse it now and it is no
:25:38. > :25:43.coincidence that Hillsborough happened at the end of the 1980s.
:25:44. > :25:48.Because there was this persistent and consistent attack upon
:25:49. > :25:54.working-class institutions and it was always going to end in something
:25:55. > :26:01.like Hillsborough. And when it did end that way, I said, I am strong,
:26:02. > :26:11.to hell with this, I will write truth in future. And so I wrote this
:26:12. > :26:17.episode of Cracker about a man who survived Hillsborough. And
:26:18. > :26:24.identifies what is going on. He is a bright lad. And he decides to act
:26:25. > :26:29.the way he is expected to act. When you hear my accent, he eventually
:26:30. > :26:33.says, you see in your mind's ie a shaven headed fascist with ace
:26:34. > :26:40.banner in his hand, I will be that shaven headed Ashes. The people who
:26:41. > :26:50.died in Hillsborough, they would not want revenge, that is right, but I
:26:51. > :26:56.want it. Right. I want revenge. So you are going to get it? Oh, yes.
:26:57. > :27:04.Hillsborough family is heard about this, of course. And one day on my
:27:05. > :27:09.doorstep was Jenny Hickson, Doreen Jones, Doreen lost her son Richard
:27:10. > :27:15.and Jenny lost two daughters, Vicki and Sarah. They said, we want you to
:27:16. > :27:18.tell our story. I said, I have a bottle of wine in the fridge. We
:27:19. > :27:26.went into the garden and just talked and talked. It was done. You have
:27:27. > :27:32.achieved so much. You have won many awards. Does it get any easier? No,
:27:33. > :27:39.it gets harder. The energy required to keep going, the stamina required.
:27:40. > :27:45.But I am a much better writer than I was. Some of the stuff in Broken is
:27:46. > :27:50.good. It is some of the best I have ever written. I used to say, I have
:27:51. > :27:54.a couple of years until they find me out, and it will take them years to
:27:55. > :28:01.establish the fact I cannot do it. That is the essence of Sean Bean's
:28:02. > :28:08.character in Broken. His heart keeps reminding him of how unworthy he is.
:28:09. > :28:12.And many writers feel that as well. Jimmy Stewart, in its own wonderful
:28:13. > :28:19.life, wondering, what difference did I make? Is that a thought you had?
:28:20. > :28:25.Yes, it you see echoes of that at the end of Broken. It does end in a
:28:26. > :28:32.joyous way and it deserves it! After what you have put us through! It
:28:33. > :28:34.does. Jimmy, it has been an absolute pleasure. Great to talk to you,
:28:35. > :28:36.thank you. And, by the way, that interview
:28:37. > :28:40.was recorded before this week's announcement about prosecutions
:28:41. > :28:41.relating to Hillsborough. The final episode of Broken is
:28:42. > :28:45.on BBC One at 9 o'clock on Tuesday. Still to come on
:28:46. > :28:46.Sunday Morning Live: The barber providing much more
:28:47. > :28:58.than a short back and sides. You really think he saved your life?
:28:59. > :29:00.Yes, definitely, I do think he saved my life.
:29:01. > :29:03.First, the story of a British Sikh couple who claim they were advised
:29:04. > :29:06.not to apply to adopt because of their
:29:07. > :29:11.They say it was because only white children were in need of families.
:29:12. > :29:14.Sandeep and Reena Mander say that Adopt Berkshire told them that white
:29:15. > :29:19.British or European applicants would be given preference.
:29:20. > :29:21.While it is not illegal for adoption agencies to prioritise
:29:22. > :29:23.on the basis of race, the Manders claim they've
:29:24. > :29:37.For us, colour does not mean a single thing. Love doesn't have a
:29:38. > :29:43.colour so why differentiate that and the well-being of that child growing
:29:44. > :29:47.up just down to the fact that I suppose we brown skins? They should
:29:48. > :29:51.be looking at others as people and understanding more about our lives
:29:52. > :29:54.and who we are and not one particular area such as cultural
:29:55. > :29:55.heritage, because that can mean anything.
:29:56. > :29:57.Adopt Berkshire say they don't comment on ongoing cases.
:29:58. > :29:59.But their website says they will seek prospective parents
:30:00. > :30:02.of a similar background to the child, though they would not
:30:03. > :30:04.keep children waiting to "achieve a direct match".
:30:05. > :30:08.But should ethnicity matter at all when it comes to adoption?
:30:09. > :30:11.Joining us now are David Akinsanya, a broadcaster and campaigner for
:30:12. > :30:16.Dr Peter Hayes, who is a Senior Lecturer in Politics
:30:17. > :30:25.And Sally Baffour, who has adopted herself
:30:26. > :30:38.Donna is also back with us. Sally, the key thing is surely loving
:30:39. > :30:43.parents. If love is there then ethnicity doesn't matter. Love is
:30:44. > :30:48.the foundation but ethnicity is very important in a child's life. You
:30:49. > :30:52.have to go through life as the person you are. If you are looking
:30:53. > :30:58.at race, for instance, black and white, people see that first. Peter,
:30:59. > :31:01.does it make sense to give a child to a family where they understand
:31:02. > :31:06.the ethnicity and background and they can give that to the child?
:31:07. > :31:13.There has been a lot of research that has compared children who were
:31:14. > :31:21.the same ethnicity as their adopted parents and those who were adopted
:31:22. > :31:28.by different ethnicities, and there has been no difference whatsoever.
:31:29. > :31:33.We live in a multicultural society with all sorts of races, mixed
:31:34. > :31:43.races, why is it a problem that a child being adopted by parents of a
:31:44. > :31:45.different race? We set up a group in 1986 that called together lots of
:31:46. > :31:52.black children who had been fostered in the care system. A lot of these
:31:53. > :31:56.children felt lost, they didn't have an identity. A lot of them had
:31:57. > :32:00.serious problems. We had one woman who was bleaching her skin and
:32:01. > :32:04.trying to scrub away the black. That is an extreme case but it's
:32:05. > :32:08.important for children to identify. I don't think it's a hard and fast
:32:09. > :32:15.rule because a lot of children in care these days are dual heritage.
:32:16. > :32:18.What we say to the majority of women who bring up dual heritage children
:32:19. > :32:23.are white mothers on their own. If they can do it... Are you saying
:32:24. > :32:29.single white mothers with mixed-race children have a problem? I'm saying
:32:30. > :32:32.a lot of mixed race children are being brought up by their single
:32:33. > :32:36.mothers without any intervention from social services or other
:32:37. > :32:40.people. For some it will be a problem but for many it would be. It
:32:41. > :32:43.is individual as well. Some people have stronger characters and then
:32:44. > :32:47.send up for themselves and fight against of the prejudices that are
:32:48. > :32:52.in society. I didn't feel equipped, having been brought up mainly by
:32:53. > :32:56.white people, to deal with my own internal crises as I became a
:32:57. > :33:02.teenager. I had to find an identity for myself meaning I spent a lot of
:33:03. > :33:09.time in Trinidad or around other black people, to feel confident in
:33:10. > :33:12.society. For me, going to places where I saw black bank managers and
:33:13. > :33:18.headteachers, which you don't necessarily see around this country.
:33:19. > :33:22.It's a very personal thing. Donna, we can't ignore the potential issues
:33:23. > :33:27.of a child being adopted by parents of a different ethnicity. I think
:33:28. > :33:31.the ethnic elements might be an added bonus. To get down to the
:33:32. > :33:35.nitty-gritty, I agree with Sammy, there aren't enough good parents out
:33:36. > :33:42.there for the kids who need them. Kids primarily need to be loved as
:33:43. > :33:49.themselves, to be trusting of the people caring for them. They need
:33:50. > :33:53.time. Ethnicity isn't as crucial as those other factors. And we are all
:33:54. > :33:57.British, we are all trying to fit into one culture here, not divide
:33:58. > :34:02.ourselves and segregate ourselves and say, in this or that ethnic
:34:03. > :34:07.group. It doesn't help us all living together. We are exposed to ethnic
:34:08. > :34:11.groups all around us. You say that but on every job application I have
:34:12. > :34:15.made in the last few years, I'm always asked about my ethnicity. To
:34:16. > :34:20.say ethnicity doesn't matter isn't true. But it's not as crucial for a
:34:21. > :34:27.child who needs a good home and a good set of parents as other
:34:28. > :34:32.factors. Emma? Emma Johnson was adopted at 17 by a white family.
:34:33. > :34:37.Good morning. What were some of the challenges for you growing up? To be
:34:38. > :34:43.honest growing up I didn't really realise I was any different to my
:34:44. > :34:51.family. I was treated in the same way as my brother and sister. It was
:34:52. > :34:57.only when I became a teenager that I wanted to discover my heritage and
:34:58. > :35:00.ethnicity and then I sought advice. You had an issue at school where
:35:01. > :35:04.there weren't any other black children to be friends with. I
:35:05. > :35:10.suspect it may not have caused problems at home but maybe at school
:35:11. > :35:14.you had issues? I think growing up, the environment I grew up, I was the
:35:15. > :35:19.only black person and it wasn't an issue. I had always been to school
:35:20. > :35:23.and being the only black person there. It wasn't an issue until I
:35:24. > :35:28.started going to college. What problems did it oppose them? Do you
:35:29. > :35:32.look at the issue now and think there shouldn't be any role for
:35:33. > :35:35.ethnicity in adoption when you reflect back on your whole
:35:36. > :35:41.experience? At the end of the day what a child needs is stability,
:35:42. > :35:45.safety and a loving home. Preferably it would be easier for a child to
:35:46. > :35:51.grow up in a family that have the same ethnicity as them, but I am
:35:52. > :35:56.living proof that actually if you have those basics in a family, being
:35:57. > :36:00.brought up in a loving environment, that's all that matters at the end
:36:01. > :36:03.of the day. I read in an article you contributed to this week that your
:36:04. > :36:08.mother was getting to grips with how to do your hair. That was the
:36:09. > :36:13.biggest problem we came across! Will my mum didn't know any black people
:36:14. > :36:18.and didn't know what to do with my hair. That was the biggest challenge
:36:19. > :36:23.we came across! If that was the biggest challenge, your hair looks
:36:24. > :36:32.lovely. Really interesting to hear that hair was the biggest problem! I
:36:33. > :36:37.don't think it's simply hair, its hair and skin. Love is the
:36:38. > :36:41.foundation, but ethnicity is absolutely important, because that's
:36:42. > :36:45.all people see. A young child who grows up in a mixed heritage or
:36:46. > :36:50.transracial placement will grow up believing they are white. When they
:36:51. > :36:55.get older and go out into the world... Going to college and
:36:56. > :37:05.getting a political perspective. Them that ethnicity is important,
:37:06. > :37:09.it's absolutely fine. The world says love doesn't have a colour, but
:37:10. > :37:15.loads of people in British society are completely colour-blind. Hate
:37:16. > :37:21.has a collar. I don't deny that. That's what they experience when
:37:22. > :37:28.they go out there. It's about having the self-confidence to understand
:37:29. > :37:33.racism is bad. We just heard from Emma, who is mixed race, was adopted
:37:34. > :37:41.into a white family, and she didn't seem to have any problems until she
:37:42. > :37:46.got to university. It's about feeling an outcast. It's about
:37:47. > :37:52.belonging. Having that sense of belonging. She didn't say that, she
:37:53. > :37:56.seemed to say there wasn't a problem. She's not exclusive. There
:37:57. > :37:59.are many different experiences. If you speak to a majority of them, you
:38:00. > :38:07.find at some point there is a disconnect between who they really
:38:08. > :38:10.feel they are... You are making a problem for mixed-race children. I
:38:11. > :38:15.have mixed-race grandchildren. Black and white. Are you saying they
:38:16. > :38:19.should be confused? The world determines how they see themselves.
:38:20. > :38:23.They see themselves how the world sees them. I disagree. They see
:38:24. > :38:34.themselves how we love them. There are many opinions coming in on
:38:35. > :38:36.this. Nick on Facebook says that as somebody who was adopted its
:38:37. > :38:41.important to match the parents to the child. I had enough issues being
:38:42. > :38:47.brought up with a brother and sister who I love with all my heart but I
:38:48. > :38:50.wasn't related to. Sarah says children need love, guidance and
:38:51. > :38:55.security. Ethnic background shouldn't be an issue. It makes a
:38:56. > :38:59.mockery of inclusion and diversity laws. Helen says that saying parents
:39:00. > :39:03.have to be the same ethnicity of the child is old-fashioned racism. Thank
:39:04. > :39:06.you to all our guests. Now we're off to Devon,
:39:07. > :39:09.for a trip to the hairdressers - or, to be more accurate,
:39:10. > :39:10.the barbers. Not the normal hang-out
:39:11. > :39:12.for our reporter, Wendy Robbins, but in this case, she's not
:39:13. > :39:27.there for a cut and blow dry, Just based on's throw from Torquay
:39:28. > :39:34.seafront is a rather unconventional barber shop run by Tom Chapman. --
:39:35. > :39:38.just a stone's. What's the best thing about being a barber? I love
:39:39. > :39:44.cutting hair, I get to spend a lot of time with my friends and chat and
:39:45. > :39:48.meet new people every day. What kind of conversations go on between the
:39:49. > :39:52.person in the chair and you? People talk about football, sport, perhaps
:39:53. > :39:56.a new girl they have met. I have heard some interesting stories about
:39:57. > :40:03.stag dos and things that I can't repeat on TV! But sometimes the
:40:04. > :40:07.conversation can go into darker areas. Areas which have personally
:40:08. > :40:12.affected Tom. I lost a good friend of mine a couple of years ago now. I
:40:13. > :40:16.saw him in the street, I bumped into him in town and we had a brief
:40:17. > :40:20.conversation about what he had been up to. I don't know if it was
:40:21. > :40:23.because I didn't listen enough or didn't see the signs, but a couple
:40:24. > :40:28.of days later he took his own life and I was unaware he was feeling
:40:29. > :40:32.that way. It's dawned on Tom that as a barber he was in a unique position
:40:33. > :40:39.to spot signs of depression and anxiety in his clients. In that
:40:40. > :40:42.chair there is a level of intimacy and trust. You are in their personal
:40:43. > :40:47.space and they are normally forthcoming with problems and
:40:48. > :40:51.issues. People talk to me about affairs, losing their jobs or
:40:52. > :40:55.relationships, and I have even had people talk to me about their
:40:56. > :41:00.suicide attempts. There is a level of trust, people will open up about
:41:01. > :41:06.everything. Suicide is the UK's biggest killer of men under 45 and
:41:07. > :41:08.Tom has now mobilised a network of barbers, the Lions Barber
:41:09. > :41:15.Collective, to look out for changes in their clients and possible signs
:41:16. > :41:20.of depression. We are hopefully training barbers to recognise, talk
:41:21. > :41:24.and listen for signs of mental health issues and potential suicide
:41:25. > :41:29.and give them the confidence and knowledge to signpost them to
:41:30. > :41:33.existing organisations such as the Samaritans, Calm or Mind, mental
:41:34. > :41:38.professionals who can deal with the problem. Paul is one of Tom's
:41:39. > :41:44.long-standing regulars. Tom helped to make pretty drastic way. I was at
:41:45. > :41:48.a point where I was considering taking my own life. I felt so
:41:49. > :41:55.overwhelmed with everything. I felt so alone. Speaking to him and
:41:56. > :41:59.finding out about the initiative he was setting up made me feel more
:42:00. > :42:06.comfortable and able to ask for help. It made me realise that it's
:42:07. > :42:12.OK to talk about problems. A lot of people have those problems. It
:42:13. > :42:16.helped me get the help I needed. How did it come about you opened up to
:42:17. > :42:22.Tom, you're barber, rather than Doctor? I don't really like going to
:42:23. > :42:26.the doctor. I will not go unless there is something really wrong. I
:42:27. > :42:29.feel like I am wasting their time, like I don't have a serious enough
:42:30. > :42:36.problem, so I don't do it. There are a lot of people in the same
:42:37. > :42:41.situation. It's not Tom furore job to listen or care, but it does, and
:42:42. > :42:48.it has made a huge difference to my life. You really think he saved your
:42:49. > :42:53.life? Yes, I do think he saved my life. As well as training other
:42:54. > :42:56.barbers to potentially save lives, Tom encourages his own clients to
:42:57. > :43:03.help each other through monthly support groups. The Torquay seafront
:43:04. > :43:06.is a favourite meeting point. At one point we had 20 people show up to
:43:07. > :43:11.the walk and it was an incredible feeling to see that. Not just there
:43:12. > :43:15.to help themselves, but help each other. When that happens, 20 people
:43:16. > :43:23.stood outside a restaurant down here when I turned up, I was gobsmacked.
:43:24. > :43:26.I nearly cried. It was incredible. Suicide is the biggest killer of
:43:27. > :43:31.young men in this country. I wonder if you have any views why you think
:43:32. > :43:42.this happens, why men are under such pressure? The social conditioning of
:43:43. > :43:46.men is a huge, huge problem. You are supposed to be strong, dependable.
:43:47. > :43:55.You are not supposed to have these feelings or be weak. But it's not
:43:56. > :43:59.too weak to talk about it. What's it like for you to see support groups
:44:00. > :44:04.like the one you have down here thriving, and men talking to each
:44:05. > :44:09.other? some men are so isolated so to give people the freedom to come
:44:10. > :44:13.out their home and talk to like-minded people is unbelievable.
:44:14. > :44:17.If we can save one person's life it's a game changer. A huge amount
:44:18. > :44:22.of pride for myself and anybody else who helps us. It's fantastic. That
:44:23. > :44:24.report from Wendy Robbins. The tranquil environment
:44:25. > :44:26.of a history gathering in the Wiltshire countryside
:44:27. > :44:28.was disturbed this week by a row about the line-up
:44:29. > :44:31.of people due to speak. Historian Rebecca Rideal pulled out
:44:32. > :44:33.of the Chalke Valley Festival because she was concerned
:44:34. > :44:36.about the limited number of women The festival organisers say
:44:37. > :44:41.that over the years, they've had a number of non-white
:44:42. > :44:44.speakers talking Although this was a minor spat,
:44:45. > :44:49.it raises questions about whether there should be a more
:44:50. > :44:53.inclusive focus on our past. To counter this, Birmingham City
:44:54. > :44:55.University is starting the UK's Kehinde Andrews, a sociologist
:44:56. > :45:11.from Birmingham City University and founder of its new degree course
:45:12. > :45:13.in Black Studies - And Steve Mastin, who's been
:45:14. > :45:16.a history teacher for 17 years and is chairman
:45:17. > :45:18.of the Conservative You helped write the national
:45:19. > :45:33.curriculum for history. No, I do not think I did get it
:45:34. > :45:39.wrong, I think that is quite a personal attack! I thought we would
:45:40. > :45:42.start with the big one! I do not think so, the national curriculum
:45:43. > :45:46.provides a lot of flexibility for teachers in history to teach
:45:47. > :45:50.whatever they want to teach. In a state-run Academy, you have much
:45:51. > :45:56.more flexibility over the curriculum you teach so you can adapt it to
:45:57. > :46:01.what needs you see. Should history not, the curriculum, reflect our
:46:02. > :46:06.broad history and multicultural history? Our broad history is an
:46:07. > :46:12.interesting phrase. I think most parents and most pupils and most
:46:13. > :46:19.people in the India would want a history that is predominantly
:46:20. > :46:21.British. There is world history and European history, but everybody
:46:22. > :46:27.should know about the Norman conquest, others in the first and
:46:28. > :46:31.other things. Yes, surely we need to focus on something, Kehinde we
:46:32. > :46:36.cannot bring in something different for each ethnicity. The bigger
:46:37. > :46:42.problem is British history is the history of Africa and the Caribbean.
:46:43. > :46:46.You do not understand history if you do not understand the impact of the
:46:47. > :46:53.colonies. My uncle and father were born in what we now call Jamaica and
:46:54. > :46:55.they have come to this India and if you do not understand that as
:46:56. > :47:00.British can you do not understand what written is. It is a damning
:47:01. > :47:04.indictment of our so-called education system it does not teach
:47:05. > :47:08.that is history like that. Is it not fair to say that is your perspective
:47:09. > :47:12.and Steve has a different perspective? This is a problem and
:47:13. > :47:17.this is why students at University want to know, why is my curriculum
:47:18. > :47:23.white and why are we not hearing the full history of Britain? It is a
:47:24. > :47:27.very narrow view that misses out not just on what we know, it misses out
:47:28. > :47:30.for the rest of you and how do you understand the world if we do not
:47:31. > :47:34.understand what made Britain Britain? Emma.
:47:35. > :47:38.She's an historian, who has written the book Victoria Abdul,
:47:39. > :47:43.currently being turned into a film starring Judi Dench.
:47:44. > :47:54.I am a 71 billion citizens. Abdul has risen in his own merit. He also
:47:55. > :47:56.was a servant. Now he is my friend. I have not been as happy as this for
:47:57. > :48:09.years. Talking to you about your film with
:48:10. > :48:11.Abdul Karim, a servant who befriended Queen Victoria after the
:48:12. > :48:16.death of her husband Prince Albert. Why is it so important to know about
:48:17. > :48:21.Abdul? It is important to know there was a young Muslim man at the heart
:48:22. > :48:24.of empire. We have talked about empire and British history, it is
:48:25. > :48:27.important to know about these people from the wrong side of the tracks,
:48:28. > :48:34.as it were, who played a role in it. He became The Queen is not closest
:48:35. > :48:39.confidant for 13 years, the last 13 years of his life. And my theory is
:48:40. > :48:44.she had a longer lease of life because of Abdul. He took her to
:48:45. > :48:52.another space. But why is it so important, what impact, broadening
:48:53. > :48:55.history and how it is taught in this India, can it have on young people
:48:56. > :49:00.in society? We need to know about the contribution Indians and Asians
:49:01. > :49:05.and people from the colonies have made to this India. It is important
:49:06. > :49:07.to know Empire is the other countries that made empire. For
:49:08. > :49:15.instance, the First World War, we talk about studying the wars, of
:49:16. > :49:17.course we must know that and 1.5 million Indians contributed to the
:49:18. > :49:23.First World War. They crossed the sea to fight in the trenches and
:49:24. > :49:26.they died in the trenches. In the Second World War, 2.5 million
:49:27. > :49:30.Indians fought for Britain in the Second World War, for King and
:49:31. > :49:35.India. We need to know personal stories. I wrote a bit -- and wrote
:49:36. > :49:39.a book about a secret agent in the Second World War he was dropped
:49:40. > :49:43.behind enemy lines, a young Muslim woman who was killed in a
:49:44. > :49:47.concentration camp. She was awarded the George Cross, one of only three
:49:48. > :49:52.women to get the George Cross, why do we not know these stories? It is
:49:53. > :49:57.very important they get told. They make it inclusive. Our shared
:49:58. > :50:02.history takes us forward. Our shared past is our shared future. The more
:50:03. > :50:09.we understand our shared heritage, the more we understand each other.
:50:10. > :50:13.So something we have discussed a lot, it is multiculturalism and how
:50:14. > :50:17.we understand each other. Shrabani Basu, thank you for an insight into
:50:18. > :50:22.those stories. Sean. I have never heard the story of Victoria and
:50:23. > :50:27.Abdul and it makes me feel we are missing out.
:50:28. > :50:30.With all due respect, I think she is manufacturing sensitivities that do
:50:31. > :50:36.not exist. History teachers will be saying, yes, we teach that 2.5
:50:37. > :50:41.million Indians volunteers, the largest volunteer force ever chose
:50:42. > :50:45.to fight on the side of the Allies. This is manufacturing sensitivity. I
:50:46. > :50:52.agree we should include other types of history. There was a Classics
:50:53. > :50:57.event in London talking about broadening classical education, so
:50:58. > :51:01.the ancient Greeks, the Romans, it is that white history? Of course
:51:02. > :51:05.not, it is human history. I identify with them not because they are a
:51:06. > :51:11.similar colour, because they are human. We in danger of manufacturing
:51:12. > :51:15.history? No, you have the option but often it is not done at school level
:51:16. > :51:21.and university level. It is changing the core of how we understand things
:51:22. > :51:24.and that is why we we started Black Studies to shift the focus and to
:51:25. > :51:27.look differently at the world and you have a different kind of
:51:28. > :51:32.education which does not alienate children. I went to 20 years at
:51:33. > :51:36.school never learning anything about anybody that was not white, that is
:51:37. > :51:41.a damning indictment and still happens. We have to change the key
:51:42. > :51:46.core of our curriculum and that is not being done. We're out of time,
:51:47. > :51:47.but a very good debate, and you are shaking your head! Thank you very
:51:48. > :51:50.much. Now to the tiny Scottish
:51:51. > :51:52.island which has created Twenty years ago, ?1.5 million
:51:53. > :51:56.was raised so that the residents could buy Isle of Eigg
:51:57. > :51:59.from its private owners - becoming the first island
:52:00. > :52:01.in Scottish history to be bought Central to island life is the idea
:52:02. > :52:11.of self-sufficiency, with the islanders living off
:52:12. > :52:13.the land and reliant We sent city-dweller
:52:14. > :52:31.Samanthi Flanagan to get Zipping along in a small boat by the
:52:32. > :52:34.Scottish coast is far from a city dwelling comfort zone but I am going
:52:35. > :52:37.to a place where getting back to nature and living a sustainable
:52:38. > :52:44.existence is more than a romantic motion, it is a way of life.
:52:45. > :52:49.Covering just 12 square miles, the Isle of Eigg is an Area of
:52:50. > :52:51.Outstanding Natural Beauty. Maggie Fife helped spearhead a quiet
:52:52. > :52:58.revolution which is transforming this island. Maggie, hello! Hello.
:52:59. > :53:04.What a welcome, lovely to meet you. Lovely to meet you. I queue for
:53:05. > :53:08.having me. Your own piece of paradise! Incredible. In a good day,
:53:09. > :53:16.yes. The Sun is out, we have struck gold! This is just spectacular. This
:53:17. > :53:21.vantage point. A really great spot to put up your solar panels. Yes,
:53:22. > :53:29.they need to be in a good position to catch maximum sunlight. Enough to
:53:30. > :53:32.have a shower and put the telly on? We do not have any power showers,
:53:33. > :53:38.you are not allowed electric showers here! With the help of specialists,
:53:39. > :53:43.locals have harnessed all three renewable energies, wind and rain
:53:44. > :53:48.and solar to create their own power grid. A world first. To produce our
:53:49. > :53:54.electric from these technologies is quite special. People are incredibly
:53:55. > :53:58.proud of it. It is a really good team that looks after the system.
:53:59. > :54:03.When we first put on the turbines, we maybe had to get a specialist to
:54:04. > :54:06.take them down and maintain them. But the maintenance team were there
:54:07. > :54:09.for that and they have learned how to do it so they can do it
:54:10. > :54:13.themselves. Does that extends to other aspects of island life, that
:54:14. > :54:18.in happens have to have multiple jobs? We do not have an electrician
:54:19. > :54:22.or a mechanic, we do not have a lot of different things here. So people
:54:23. > :54:26.have to do most things for themselves. People have learned over
:54:27. > :54:33.the years to do all manner of things. Eigg's renewable energy
:54:34. > :54:39.revolution has fuelled the rise of new inhabitants, drawn by its
:54:40. > :54:47.independent spirit and wild beauty. Celia settled on the island four
:54:48. > :54:53.years ago. So how many sheep to have? I have 25. What was it like
:54:54. > :54:58.when you first have to look after she and grow your own food and
:54:59. > :55:04.sustain your own food chain? I was not very successful! That is how it
:55:05. > :55:11.started. It just took a while to learn how to keep them healthy. It
:55:12. > :55:15.was talking to the other sheep farmers but I learned how to keep
:55:16. > :55:20.them healthy. I have had the sheep for three years and now I would say
:55:21. > :55:31.they are doing really well. I think I am a natural! O! And this is hot
:55:32. > :55:35.lips. She is so beautiful. You are obviously still learning. This is a
:55:36. > :55:40.big new part of your life. How has it changed due to have these skills,
:55:41. > :55:46.to be so close to nature? It has given me a lot of confidence, I
:55:47. > :55:49.suppose, learning a new skill. A sense of belonging and being a
:55:50. > :55:58.caretaker, to be part of the land and to realise how easy it is to
:55:59. > :55:59.trash it. And yet how much it gives you if you learn from it.
:56:00. > :56:09.It is amazing. The next couple I will meet have not
:56:10. > :56:14.been on the island very long, but they have made quite a splash! After
:56:15. > :56:18.falling in love with the island, newcomers Owen and Lorraine moved
:56:19. > :56:24.here two years ago. They now provide kayaks and camping pods to the
:56:25. > :56:31.growing influx of tourists in Eigg. What a lovely afternoon to me
:56:32. > :56:35.messing about in a kayak off the coast of Eigg. Yes, beautiful
:56:36. > :56:40.evening and great day. What is the difference between your life in
:56:41. > :56:45.Shropshire and Eigg? The pace of life, we did not give enough time to
:56:46. > :56:50.do the things which are important to us, spending time with the community
:56:51. > :56:55.and paddling. Eigg is a wonderful place. It has extended a warm on the
:56:56. > :56:59.bus and we were made to feel as welcome as if we were from Scotland
:57:00. > :57:05.or anywhere in the world and that is quite a special thing. What impact
:57:06. > :57:09.has the renewable energy and Eigg had in your life? It has made me
:57:10. > :57:12.think a lot more about how I have wasted energy in the past and now I
:57:13. > :57:16.think a lot more carefully about what I use and do I need to use it?
:57:17. > :57:19.My personal energy footprint is probably far less than it was on the
:57:20. > :57:25.mainland. It gives you a warm feeling of an evening when it has
:57:26. > :57:33.all been generated in the irons through wind and water. -- on the
:57:34. > :57:38.island. I'm not quite ready to move to Eigg, I think I would miss my
:57:39. > :57:41.home comforts. This is undoubtedly a special place, the people here have
:57:42. > :57:47.been empowered by the choices they have made. It is a wonderful
:57:48. > :57:50.tight-knit community, in an extraordinary setting. I certainly
:57:51. > :57:51.can understand why the islanders would not imagine living anywhere
:57:52. > :57:52.else. Samanthi Flanagan
:57:53. > :57:54.enjoying the good life. That's nearly all
:57:55. > :57:55.from us for this week. Many thanks to all our
:57:56. > :57:58.guests and you at home But why don't you join Emma for live
:57:59. > :58:03.chat online after the show? Yes, please do, so many getting in
:58:04. > :58:05.touch. Yes, I'll be taking Mark Ellis out
:58:06. > :58:08.of his comfort zone, and back into the world of social
:58:09. > :58:11.media, to find out more In the meantime, from everyone
:58:12. > :58:24.here in the studio and the whole