0:00:26 > 0:00:31Northamptonshire. The county of squires and spires.
0:00:32 > 0:00:36Majestic limestone manors dot the rolling countryside.
0:00:38 > 0:00:41I'm starting my journey in the north of the county,
0:00:41 > 0:00:43in the small village of Rushton.
0:00:46 > 0:00:49But all is not quite as it seems
0:00:49 > 0:00:53within the landscape. Beneath the quaint is quite a lot of quirk.
0:00:59 > 0:01:02Tucked away on a lonely country lane sits this striking
0:01:02 > 0:01:04but slightly bizarre building.
0:01:06 > 0:01:09It's an intricate riddle, a maze of secret codes.
0:01:10 > 0:01:12Rushton Triangular Lodge.
0:01:14 > 0:01:17It's a celebration of the Holy Trinity - God the Father,
0:01:17 > 0:01:20the Son and the Holy Spirit.
0:01:20 > 0:01:24It was completed in 1596 by one of the county's most famous sons,
0:01:24 > 0:01:30Thomas Tresham, a man for whom three was most definitely the magic number.
0:01:30 > 0:01:34A Catholic politician living under Queen Elizabeth's Protestant reign,
0:01:34 > 0:01:37he designed the Lodge while serving time for his beliefs.
0:01:37 > 0:01:40I'm meeting up with historian Emily Hughes who can hopefully
0:01:40 > 0:01:43tell me a thing or three about the place.
0:01:43 > 0:01:45I know the number three is significant
0:01:45 > 0:01:48but you're the one doing the PhD. How did he construct it?
0:01:48 > 0:01:52He constructed it very symbolically.
0:01:52 > 0:01:55His name, Tresham, "Tres" means three in Latin,
0:01:55 > 0:01:58so quite obviously, a symbol of the Holy Trinity
0:01:58 > 0:02:00and also a pun on his name.
0:02:00 > 0:02:04So the walls are all 33 feet long, there's three sides,
0:02:04 > 0:02:08there's three floors, the Trinity is obvious here.
0:02:08 > 0:02:11On the face of it, it seems a fairly innocent declaration of faith
0:02:11 > 0:02:15but there are other secret, treasonable messages.
0:02:16 > 0:02:18The letter S under the water spout stands for "sanctus",
0:02:18 > 0:02:21part of the Catholic Mass.
0:02:21 > 0:02:24And celebrating mass under Queen Elizabeth could lead to execution.
0:02:26 > 0:02:29What would he have done inside the building?
0:02:29 > 0:02:33Well, he built it for his rabbit keeper, a Lodge for him.
0:02:33 > 0:02:36- Elaborate.- Yeah.
0:02:36 > 0:02:40Once we get inside, you can see that's completely impractical.
0:02:40 > 0:02:43I think, actually, it's a place of devotion and a place
0:02:43 > 0:02:46he could come with his family and practise their faith
0:02:46 > 0:02:48in secret and in private.
0:02:48 > 0:02:52CHOIR SINGS IN LATIN
0:03:04 > 0:03:08- So this is what it would have been like.- It might well have been.
0:03:08 > 0:03:11The music, I found it within papers from the Tresham household
0:03:11 > 0:03:14so it might have been composed by Thomas Tresham.
0:03:14 > 0:03:18The music itself are the last words of an executed priest.
0:03:18 > 0:03:21And the symbolism within the music, like the building,
0:03:21 > 0:03:24there's cross symbolism, so there's four notes in the shape of a cross,
0:03:24 > 0:03:28and then throughout the four voice parts are 33 allelujahs.
0:03:28 > 0:03:31So the three is making a comeback again and again.
0:03:44 > 0:03:48But this isn't the only puzzling building in the county.
0:03:48 > 0:03:51The hidden symbolism continues to intrigue at the home of another
0:03:51 > 0:03:54notable Northamptonshire family.
0:03:54 > 0:03:58The Triangular Lodge was just a twinkle in Tresham's sketchbook
0:03:58 > 0:04:02when this place, Canons Ashby, was built 40 years earlier.
0:04:02 > 0:04:06With its formal gardens, its stunning views and its fancy topiary,
0:04:06 > 0:04:08it's a pretty textbook stately home.
0:04:08 > 0:04:13But step inside, and there are some hidden clues to a secret past.
0:04:17 > 0:04:19Welcome to Canons Ashby.
0:04:19 > 0:04:23I'm hoping Laura Malpas can shed some light on its dark secrets.
0:04:24 > 0:04:25A lovely hallway.
0:04:25 > 0:04:29Both the families I'm looking into today clearly had money
0:04:29 > 0:04:31but they were very different, weren't they?
0:04:31 > 0:04:33Well, they were because the Drydens,
0:04:33 > 0:04:37- who lived and built Canons Ashby... - Here.- ..which is here,
0:04:37 > 0:04:40they were extreme Protestants, Puritans.
0:04:40 > 0:04:43Whereas the Treshams you've been looking at over at Rushton,
0:04:43 > 0:04:45they were extreme Roman Catholics.
0:04:45 > 0:04:48So, you've got opposite ends of the spectrum.
0:04:48 > 0:04:51- Now, this is the great kitchen. - Very nice.
0:04:51 > 0:04:54But this isn't what I want to show you. This is over here.
0:04:59 > 0:05:03- This is our servants' dining hall. - Interesting decoration.
0:05:03 > 0:05:05What do they all mean?
0:05:05 > 0:05:08Well, we've got some theories about what they all mean.
0:05:08 > 0:05:12- Can you see there's some dividers, holding a white scroll?- Yes.
0:05:12 > 0:05:17And then you've got these reeded columns with the set squares on top,
0:05:17 > 0:05:18with an eye in the middle.
0:05:18 > 0:05:22And then we've got family crests all around walls.
0:05:22 > 0:05:27What is unusual is that we've got lots of Protestant families up here
0:05:27 > 0:05:31but we've also got some well-known Roman Catholic families here, too.
0:05:31 > 0:05:33- So they're intermingled?- Yes,
0:05:33 > 0:05:36something is uniting them that is bigger than religion.
0:05:38 > 0:05:39- What's bigger than religion?- Quite.
0:05:41 > 0:05:45If you put a modern day Freemason in this room and show him
0:05:45 > 0:05:49these symbols, they go, "Oh, that looks really Masonic to me."
0:05:50 > 0:05:56But the Grand Lodge in London of Freemasons say freemasonry
0:05:56 > 0:06:01- wasn't established in England until 1717.- So this is too early?
0:06:01 > 0:06:04This is at least 100 years too early,
0:06:04 > 0:06:07- probably more than 100 years too early.- Right.
0:06:07 > 0:06:11- It's very mysterious, isn't it? It's very Da Vinci Code.- Oh, it is.
0:06:11 > 0:06:14So, the symbols may hold the key to a secret society
0:06:14 > 0:06:19but another mystery has recently been unearthed in the room.
0:06:19 > 0:06:23- Inside here...- You're getting into the cupboard.- Yes, indeed.
0:06:23 > 0:06:24We were just having a look around.
0:06:24 > 0:06:28I don't know if you can notice, we've got a secret chamber.
0:06:28 > 0:06:30For what?
0:06:30 > 0:06:33Well, it's too small for a person,
0:06:33 > 0:06:35but it's just the right size for things.
0:06:35 > 0:06:38So if you have things you don't want anybody to find,
0:06:38 > 0:06:40then you'd put them in here.
0:06:40 > 0:06:44So many questions, Laura, so many questions!
0:06:44 > 0:06:47We know that there's a lot of story here.
0:06:47 > 0:06:49We've got lots of people who've given us little ideas
0:06:49 > 0:06:51and hints about various things.
0:06:51 > 0:06:54We would love people to, if they've got any ideas,
0:06:54 > 0:06:57come and have a look and come and tell us what they think.
0:06:57 > 0:07:00If you're watching and you know what any of this means, let us know.
0:07:00 > 0:07:02Get in contact.
0:07:03 > 0:07:05Hopefully, one day, someone out there
0:07:05 > 0:07:08can unravel the secrets wrapped within the symbols.
0:07:11 > 0:07:14While we're careering around Northamptonshire, Tom has been
0:07:14 > 0:07:17travelling from England to Scotland finding out why one of Britain's
0:07:17 > 0:07:21most beautiful wild animals is becoming a victim of its own success.
0:07:25 > 0:07:29Deer have always been a part of our rural landscape.
0:07:29 > 0:07:33Yet a glimpse of our largest land mammal is still a rare treat
0:07:33 > 0:07:35for many people in the countryside.
0:07:38 > 0:07:42But this secretive temperament hides a population explosion
0:07:42 > 0:07:45and now they're on the move.
0:07:51 > 0:07:56Following in the footsteps of foxes, deer are now spreading further
0:07:56 > 0:07:58and further into our urban areas.
0:07:59 > 0:08:02They can now be found in many of our biggest cities,
0:08:02 > 0:08:05like Bristol, Glasgow, and here in London.
0:08:07 > 0:08:10They're becoming amazingly bold, brazen, even.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13This is the middle of the day and I can get quite close to them
0:08:13 > 0:08:15before they move off.
0:08:15 > 0:08:17They're getting very used to being near humans.
0:08:18 > 0:08:22It's hard to believe these usually timid creatures would want
0:08:22 > 0:08:24to live closer to us.
0:08:24 > 0:08:26To find out what's bringing them to the cities,
0:08:26 > 0:08:29I'm heading into the heart of the countryside.
0:08:36 > 0:08:39Dr Paul Dolman has been studying deer populations in Britain
0:08:39 > 0:08:41for 12 years.
0:08:41 > 0:08:43How have things been changing?
0:08:43 > 0:08:48Well, you can see for all four of these species in the 1970s,
0:08:48 > 0:08:51they were very localised and then in the last three decades,
0:08:51 > 0:08:55they have spread. They've spread throughout much of the country.
0:08:55 > 0:08:57It is a very consistent picture, isn't it?
0:08:57 > 0:08:59Moving out from these small darker areas,
0:08:59 > 0:09:03the lighter colours spreading out across the country.
0:09:03 > 0:09:06What's driving this expansion?
0:09:06 > 0:09:09Firstly, we have no natural predators. We don't have brown bear,
0:09:09 > 0:09:11wolf and lynx in the UK.
0:09:11 > 0:09:15Secondly, we've actually reintroduced the native roe deer
0:09:15 > 0:09:16to England and red deer,
0:09:16 > 0:09:20and we've released these introduced species, but we've released them
0:09:20 > 0:09:23into an environment that's very favourable for them.
0:09:23 > 0:09:26We've doubled the area of woodland in the last century
0:09:26 > 0:09:30through planting and we've got highly nutritious croplands.
0:09:30 > 0:09:33We now have food in the winter in the form of planted winter wheat.
0:09:33 > 0:09:37All of these things have made it more favourable for deer.
0:09:37 > 0:09:39And you can see that with London here.
0:09:39 > 0:09:42They've spread throughout what is the M25 ring.
0:09:42 > 0:09:45Well, particularly for muntjac, fallow and roe deer, yes.
0:09:45 > 0:09:47They are colonising our cities.
0:09:49 > 0:09:53Current estimates suggest there are now two million deer in the UK.
0:09:53 > 0:09:56Such numbers are already damaging the countryside.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00The problem is that hungry deer are eating their way
0:10:00 > 0:10:04through our woodlands, stopping the growth of new trees
0:10:04 > 0:10:06and destroying precious habitats.
0:10:06 > 0:10:10They're even being blamed for sharp declines in woodland birds,
0:10:10 > 0:10:12like the nightingale.
0:10:17 > 0:10:21But as they move into more populated areas, new problems are arising.
0:10:25 > 0:10:28One of the biggest issues is road accidents.
0:10:28 > 0:10:32It's claimed that more than 40,000 collisions are caused by deer
0:10:32 > 0:10:34every year in the UK.
0:10:37 > 0:10:39Scottish Natural Heritage has been keeping
0:10:39 > 0:10:41an eye on the problem in Glasgow.
0:10:43 > 0:10:46- So, why have you brought me here? - This is really a busy road
0:10:46 > 0:10:48beside the roe deer habitat.
0:10:48 > 0:10:50We've got lots of traffic, lots of deer,
0:10:50 > 0:10:53and the potential for an accident between the two.
0:10:53 > 0:10:55Have you actually had collisions here?
0:10:55 > 0:10:58Certainly on this road and the M8 motorway just over the hill here.
0:10:58 > 0:11:02So for this whole area, it certainly has its fair share of accidents.
0:11:03 > 0:11:05We've also got problems with poaching,
0:11:05 > 0:11:09antisocial behaviour, in terms of killing deer with illegal methods,
0:11:09 > 0:11:12which has welfare implications for the deer.
0:11:12 > 0:11:16We might have damage to woodlands and people's gardens,
0:11:16 > 0:11:19- golf courses, public areas. - Is it all bad?- Absolutely not.
0:11:19 > 0:11:22A lot of people love deer, and enjoy seeing deer.
0:11:22 > 0:11:26For people in Glasgow, a roe deer is in all honesty the biggest
0:11:26 > 0:11:29land mammal they'll see right on their doorstep.
0:11:29 > 0:11:32That's a huge benefit to educate people,
0:11:32 > 0:11:33they can see and enjoy nature.
0:11:35 > 0:11:37Unless the population is managed,
0:11:37 > 0:11:41it's likely the number of urban deer will continue to rise.
0:11:43 > 0:11:47That doesn't mean marauding gangs of deer trashing our city streets
0:11:47 > 0:11:49but if something isn't done,
0:11:49 > 0:11:53it could lead to more conflict with us, and more suffering for the deer.
0:11:57 > 0:12:01Later, I'll be asking if we need to take more drastic action now
0:12:01 > 0:12:04to avoid further problems in the future.
0:12:12 > 0:12:15'So much for spring having sprung!
0:12:15 > 0:12:17'It's gone all Arctic in Northamptonshire, too.
0:12:17 > 0:12:21'But I'm about to explore a rather unusual type of farming
0:12:21 > 0:12:23'that should definitely warm the cockles.'
0:12:23 > 0:12:27Gin. Now, that's my kind of farm diversification!
0:12:30 > 0:12:34Just five months ago, Tom Warner and Sion Edwards started harnessing
0:12:34 > 0:12:39the spring water beneath Tom's family farm to make artisan gin.
0:12:40 > 0:12:43From young scamps helping out on their parents' farms,
0:12:43 > 0:12:46these two grew up to be best friends at agricultural college.
0:12:48 > 0:12:50Kindred spirits with a clear vision,
0:12:50 > 0:12:54they are now bezzie mates in a distilling business.
0:12:54 > 0:12:57- Hi, Tom.- Hi, Julia.- Cor, bumpy old field you've got me walking across!
0:12:57 > 0:13:01Yeah, they are the parks and gardens of an old mediaeval manor house.
0:13:01 > 0:13:04- Really?- Yeah, where we are right now is actually the fishponds.
0:13:04 > 0:13:06And this is one of the springs that would have fed the ponds.
0:13:06 > 0:13:08Handy for the gin business.
0:13:08 > 0:13:11Very handy for the gin business, because the water is very important.
0:13:11 > 0:13:14It wasn't always gin for you, though, was it?
0:13:14 > 0:13:16We really wanted to get back to some form of agriculture
0:13:16 > 0:13:19that was more exciting than day-to-day running of the farm
0:13:19 > 0:13:22and that's where this idea came from.
0:13:22 > 0:13:25It originally started around growing crops for essential oils
0:13:25 > 0:13:28and you need to distil those crops to extract the oil from them.
0:13:28 > 0:13:30What can you do with a still for the rest of the year?
0:13:30 > 0:13:32We can make alcohol.
0:13:32 > 0:13:34So we dropped the whole essential oil idea
0:13:34 > 0:13:36and just started focusing on alcohol.
0:13:36 > 0:13:39Who's the brains and who's the brawn in this operation, Tom?
0:13:39 > 0:13:42I think, as I'm here on a freezing cold day bucketing water,
0:13:42 > 0:13:44and Sion's up there in the warm, I think
0:13:44 > 0:13:46I can be the brawn and he's the brains.
0:13:53 > 0:13:56This old stable is now home to a beautiful, hand-made copper still
0:13:56 > 0:14:00that looks like something straight out of a Wallace and Gromit film.
0:14:00 > 0:14:04Into the spring water goes a mix of juniper, cinnamon, cardamom,
0:14:04 > 0:14:08elder from the farm and a whole host of other secret goodies.
0:14:08 > 0:14:12Time for me to get warm and find out how it all works.
0:14:12 > 0:14:16- Hiya, Sion.- Hello, there.- She's a beauty, isn't she?- Absolutely.
0:14:16 > 0:14:19So we've got all the ingredients in here bubbling away,
0:14:19 > 0:14:21looking very appetising.
0:14:21 > 0:14:25Basically, we've mixed alcohol, water and botanicals,
0:14:25 > 0:14:28so things like juniper and things that go into gin,
0:14:28 > 0:14:31and we then have to separate the alcohol out.
0:14:31 > 0:14:35As we heat the pot up, it vapours and condenses,
0:14:35 > 0:14:37which is the distilling, basically.
0:14:37 > 0:14:41And it goes all the way through and comes out as liquid,
0:14:41 > 0:14:47- pure distillate, which is full of flavour and about 89%.- Wow!
0:14:47 > 0:14:5089%? But that's not how you deliver it
0:14:50 > 0:14:52as a final product, at 89%?
0:14:52 > 0:14:54No, the water that Tom brings from the spring,
0:14:54 > 0:14:57we make sure it's clean, then it's called cutting back.
0:14:57 > 0:15:00We cut back the distillate down to 44%,
0:15:00 > 0:15:03which is what we produce our gin at.
0:15:03 > 0:15:05- A mere 44%?- Yeah.
0:15:05 > 0:15:06Oh, gosh.
0:15:11 > 0:15:13'Once distilled, it's ready for bottling
0:15:13 > 0:15:16'and these two do everything with their own fair hands.'
0:15:16 > 0:15:20I feel like some sort of techno milkmaid.
0:15:20 > 0:15:23- Yeah, it does look like the back end of a robotic cow, doesn't it?- Yep.
0:15:23 > 0:15:28- And, remarkably, that will do 500 an hour.- 500 an hour?
0:15:28 > 0:15:29Not with me at the wheel!
0:15:29 > 0:15:31THEY LAUGH
0:15:31 > 0:15:34With the elite bottling crew on it, me and Sion, it can, yeah.
0:15:34 > 0:15:36Where do you sell your gin now?
0:15:36 > 0:15:40Because you've just started, it's a very specialised business
0:15:40 > 0:15:42and you've got a lot of competition.
0:15:42 > 0:15:45We try to target upmarket bars, hotels and restaurants,
0:15:45 > 0:15:50good cocktail bars and independent wine shops around the country.
0:15:50 > 0:15:53And where do you want to be in five years' time? Still doing all of this?
0:15:53 > 0:15:55Because you want to keep it niche, don't you?
0:15:55 > 0:15:58Ultimately, we always want to keep it as an artisan product,
0:15:58 > 0:15:59so everything's done by hand.
0:15:59 > 0:16:02But we also want to bring in more ingredients from the farms,
0:16:02 > 0:16:05using the sloes, the blackberries and the damsons
0:16:05 > 0:16:08from the hedgerows around the farm to make different liquors.
0:16:08 > 0:16:11We were thinking of curing meat as well.
0:16:11 > 0:16:14The smell from the pot, once distillation is over,
0:16:14 > 0:16:17is so fantastic and we think and we could possibly cure meat
0:16:17 > 0:16:21in that distillate, because the smell is so great.
0:16:21 > 0:16:23That would be interesting, wouldn't it?
0:16:23 > 0:16:25All of this is making me thirsty. We need to taste some now.
0:16:25 > 0:16:27I think that's a tremendous idea, Julia,
0:16:27 > 0:16:30- and we've also got a little surprise for you.- Ooh?
0:16:30 > 0:16:31We've got you your very own label
0:16:31 > 0:16:34- produced for your very own bottle of gin.- Look at that!
0:16:34 > 0:16:36That is brilliant!
0:16:36 > 0:16:38- Cheers!- Cheers!
0:16:42 > 0:16:47- It's very flowery.- It's beautiful gin, yeah.- It is good gin.
0:16:47 > 0:16:50- What's it like to be working with your best mate, then?- It's fantastic.
0:16:50 > 0:16:55Best friend for the last 16 years of your life, can't go wrong.
0:16:55 > 0:16:57Have arguments sometimes,
0:16:57 > 0:16:59I have to get stuff from the tall shelves for Sion,
0:16:59 > 0:17:01but no, it's great.
0:17:01 > 0:17:05People say you shouldn't work with your friends, but it works with us.
0:17:09 > 0:17:13Deer are thriving in Britain, and their rapid spread
0:17:13 > 0:17:17could in many ways be celebrated as an ecological success.
0:17:19 > 0:17:23With no natural predators and plenty of suitable habitat,
0:17:23 > 0:17:25deer numbers have been booming.
0:17:25 > 0:17:28And whilst that is a really welcome sight
0:17:28 > 0:17:30while we are out in the countryside,
0:17:30 > 0:17:34when they come very close to our own doorsteps and our own roads,
0:17:34 > 0:17:38that can put real strain on our relationship.
0:17:41 > 0:17:45In Scotland, they are tackling the problem head-on.
0:17:45 > 0:17:49To find out how, I'm up early to visit a chilly woodland
0:17:49 > 0:17:51just outside the town of Kilsyth, near Glasgow.
0:17:54 > 0:17:57Ben Harrower manages the deer numbers in this area.
0:17:59 > 0:18:00What's the plan this morning?
0:18:00 > 0:18:03We're just on the edge of the town here, one of our woodlands.
0:18:03 > 0:18:05We're going to go up this track,
0:18:05 > 0:18:07go up to the back of the hill there,
0:18:07 > 0:18:10onto a sensitive restock site, see if there's any roe deer.
0:18:13 > 0:18:16To keep the deer at a level where human contact is kept
0:18:16 > 0:18:20to a minimum, 12 need to be culled at this site every year.
0:18:22 > 0:18:25And how far are we here from built-up areas?
0:18:25 > 0:18:26Well, you've got a community
0:18:26 > 0:18:28just a few hundred metres down the hill there.
0:18:28 > 0:18:32You've got a large town, just on the road we came in there,
0:18:32 > 0:18:35and on the south-east side as well, so we are surrounded.
0:18:35 > 0:18:38When we are controlling an urban woodland like this,
0:18:38 > 0:18:41we have exclusion zones near the towns and cities
0:18:41 > 0:18:45and we will completely exclude going from that area.
0:18:45 > 0:18:48So you will only stick to the back of the woodlands, the quieter areas.
0:18:50 > 0:18:53The Forestry Commission culls 1,100 roe deer every year
0:18:53 > 0:18:57in lowland Scotland, which is then sold on as venison.
0:19:00 > 0:19:02But with the weather closing in,
0:19:02 > 0:19:04there is little chance of seeing one today.
0:19:05 > 0:19:09I can see it is a tricky job. Why is it worthwhile?
0:19:09 > 0:19:12It seems odd, Tom, but we manage deer for the deer's own welfare.
0:19:12 > 0:19:16You see the negative impacts with the interactions with people,
0:19:16 > 0:19:18so it is for their own welfare
0:19:18 > 0:19:20and to keep a healthy deer population on the ground.
0:19:24 > 0:19:27Here, the approach to dealing with lowland deer has been led
0:19:27 > 0:19:31by experience elsewhere in the country.
0:19:31 > 0:19:34The law in Scotland generally supports the need for culling,
0:19:34 > 0:19:39so even if a landowner was reluctant to see it happening on his land,
0:19:39 > 0:19:41the authorities can make it happen
0:19:41 > 0:19:43if they really think it is necessary.
0:19:47 > 0:19:50But not everyone sees culling as the best option.
0:19:50 > 0:19:53Across the border in England, some of the responsibility
0:19:53 > 0:19:56for managing the animals falls on local councils.
0:19:59 > 0:20:04Rather than shooting the deer, some go out of their way to protect them.
0:20:04 > 0:20:09We are right on the edge of the M25. Why have you brought me here?
0:20:09 > 0:20:10I've brought you here
0:20:10 > 0:20:12because this is a tunnel specifically built
0:20:12 > 0:20:14to allow deer to come underneath it,
0:20:14 > 0:20:15so the herds can move.
0:20:15 > 0:20:18And when the M25 was widened a few years ago,
0:20:18 > 0:20:22I lobbied and campaigned to make sure these tunnels remained.
0:20:23 > 0:20:27In the London Borough of Havering, Andrew Curtin has worked hard
0:20:27 > 0:20:30to safeguard both deer and drivers.
0:20:30 > 0:20:34But despite his best efforts, it has been claimed that this borough
0:20:34 > 0:20:35still has the highest number
0:20:35 > 0:20:38of deer-related accidents in the capital.
0:20:38 > 0:20:41But why not control the numbers by shooting some?
0:20:41 > 0:20:44Well, sometimes it is necessary, to control the numbers.
0:20:44 > 0:20:46But we think there are more effective ways of doing that,
0:20:46 > 0:20:49so not using culling, because that isn't our policy at all.
0:20:50 > 0:20:54Whilst some are against culling, on the grounds that it is inefficient
0:20:54 > 0:20:58or even inhumane, for Andrew, there is an even more practical problem.
0:20:58 > 0:21:02There is no point in us doing something drastic
0:21:02 > 0:21:04and then more deer just coming over the border from Essex.
0:21:04 > 0:21:06If there is going to be a response, it needs to be
0:21:06 > 0:21:09across the whole region, the Government needs to consult on it
0:21:09 > 0:21:12and we respond to that and look at the measures being proposed.
0:21:16 > 0:21:20In England, large numbers of deer are already shot,
0:21:20 > 0:21:22around 100,000 every year.
0:21:25 > 0:21:27The Government have been advised
0:21:27 > 0:21:30that up to a quarter of the nation's deer should be culled,
0:21:30 > 0:21:34but when it was suggested that that figure increase to 50%,
0:21:34 > 0:21:36the press splashed the story.
0:21:39 > 0:21:41The headlines were prompted by research
0:21:41 > 0:21:44overseen by Dr Paul Dolman, who we met earlier.
0:21:44 > 0:21:47But he is uneasy with the reaction.
0:21:47 > 0:21:51This is not something that I would be comfortable with
0:21:51 > 0:21:53being attributed to me.
0:21:54 > 0:21:57Paul claims his findings have been widely misinterpreted.
0:21:57 > 0:22:02Although he does think we need to cull more, he says that first,
0:22:02 > 0:22:05we must get a clearer picture of our deer population.
0:22:05 > 0:22:08We don't know how many deer there are in the UK.
0:22:08 > 0:22:12You can see estimates of around 1.5 million or more.
0:22:12 > 0:22:16But this is complex, this is six different species,
0:22:16 > 0:22:21and every species of deer has to be taken on a case-by-case basis.
0:22:21 > 0:22:24And every region of the country has to be taken individually.
0:22:24 > 0:22:29Believing current estimates on deer numbers are wildly inaccurate,
0:22:29 > 0:22:32Paul and his team have been running a thermal imaging study
0:22:32 > 0:22:37in Thetford Forest, giving me the chance to see some deer in the wild.
0:22:37 > 0:22:40They are going to come across the road now.
0:22:40 > 0:22:42Wow, look at them in the sunshine!
0:22:42 > 0:22:46What it's told us is that there are many more deer here than we thought
0:22:46 > 0:22:51and that the deer management has completely underestimated
0:22:51 > 0:22:52the number of deer here.
0:22:52 > 0:22:56So although this is a highly managed forest,
0:22:56 > 0:23:00there are nearly 1,500 muntjac and roe deer shot each year
0:23:00 > 0:23:03in the area we were studying. What we have shown
0:23:03 > 0:23:06is that that is not keeping a lid on the population
0:23:06 > 0:23:10and that there are another 2,000 muntjac and roe spreading out
0:23:10 > 0:23:12into the wider countryside every year,
0:23:12 > 0:23:14fuelling the increase in deer numbers.
0:23:16 > 0:23:20For Paul, until we have an accurate figure across the whole country,
0:23:20 > 0:23:24it is impossible to say exactly how many deer we actually need to cull.
0:23:24 > 0:23:27But it is likely to be far greater than the current
0:23:27 > 0:23:30recommendation of one quarter.
0:23:30 > 0:23:35So, the question for our society is, are we prepared to kill more?
0:23:35 > 0:23:37If the answer is no,
0:23:37 > 0:23:40we may enjoy the thrill of more regular sightings,
0:23:40 > 0:23:45but also endure the peril of more regular friction between us.