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0:00:07 > 0:00:10- Yes, the view is wonderful...
0:00:10 > 0:00:16- ..but don't get tricked by the - beauty of Wales' mountain landscape.
0:00:16 > 0:00:19- There's a storm on the horizon...
0:00:19 > 0:00:23- ..which threatens - the communities that live here.
0:00:23 > 0:00:27- A storm previously unseen - in recent Welsh history.
0:00:42 > 0:00:46- 80% of agricultural land in Wales - is classed as upland...
0:00:46 > 0:00:49- ..or land in a less favoured area.
0:00:49 > 0:00:51- It's home to 1.5m people...
0:00:52 > 0:00:57- ..and offers direct livelihoods - for 42,000 farmers...
0:00:57 > 0:01:01- ..with many more jobs created - indirectly.
0:01:01 > 0:01:07- Hill farming is the backbone - of the economy, culture...
0:01:07 > 0:01:10- ..and environment of the uplands.
0:01:10 > 0:01:15- Every upland farm - receives a subsidy.
0:01:15 > 0:01:21- Those payments from Europe - will continue until the end of 2019.
0:01:21 > 0:01:25- The United Kingdom has decided - to leave the European Union.
0:01:25 > 0:01:28- As a result, changes will happen.
0:01:30 > 0:01:34- With Britain not contributing - financially to Europe...
0:01:34 > 0:01:40- ..the Common Agricultural Policy - payments will no longer be relevant.
0:01:41 > 0:01:45- In other words, it will see the end - of subsidies as we know them now.
0:01:46 > 0:01:50- It might herald the end - of our tariff-free lamb market...
0:01:50 > 0:01:53- ..on the continent - as we leave the single market.
0:01:53 > 0:01:57- It is estimated - that there are 9m sheep in Wales.
0:01:57 > 0:02:02- The uplands are home - to 75% of breeding ewes.
0:02:02 > 0:02:10- At today's price, farmers receive - between l.26 and 1.76 per kilo...
0:02:10 > 0:02:12- ..for their produce.
0:02:12 > 0:02:16- There are costs connected - with rearing lambs...
0:02:16 > 0:02:20- ..as Emlyn Roberts from Rhydymain, - Dolgellau, knows better than anyone.
0:02:20 > 0:02:25- He keeps 800 sheep - and 25 Welsh Black cattle.
0:02:28 > 0:02:32- As a hill farm, we're dependant on - Europe as a market for our sheep...
0:02:33 > 0:02:37- ..even though the economy there - is a little fragile right now.
0:02:37 > 0:02:40- What does the market - want from you right now?
0:02:40 > 0:02:43- Large lambs, - there's a market for large lambs.
0:02:43 > 0:02:47- It's a struggle to get a market - and demand for small lambs.
0:02:47 > 0:02:51- Producing large lambs - in an upland area is difficult.
0:02:51 > 0:02:56- It's very difficult - we're - encouraged to produce large lambs.
0:02:56 > 0:02:59- The problem with that is - you get larger ewes...
0:02:59 > 0:03:03- ..the sheep are bigger, there - are costs to maintain the sheep...
0:03:03 > 0:03:06- ..and the sheep - won't live on the mountains.
0:03:06 > 0:03:10- Welsh mountain ewes are on the - mountains for over 10 months a year.
0:03:10 > 0:03:15- If that sheep doesn't produce - the lamb the market demands...
0:03:15 > 0:03:16- ..changes are inevitable.
0:03:16 > 0:03:18- ..changes are inevitable.- - That's a possibility.
0:03:18 > 0:03:22- It's possible to get - some of those lambs over 15 kilos...
0:03:23 > 0:03:27- ..and sell them as store lambs - in this country later in the year.
0:03:28 > 0:03:33- The income to the farm - will decrease as a result.
0:03:33 > 0:03:36- The people who finish the lambs - need their cut...
0:03:36 > 0:03:41- ..to guarantee that they have - an income for finishing the lamb.
0:03:41 > 0:03:43- How much subsidy do you receive now?
0:03:43 > 0:03:47- At the moment, a substantial - proportion of the farm's income...
0:03:47 > 0:03:50- ..comes from direct - and indirect subsidies.
0:03:51 > 0:03:55- Indirectly, schemes relating - to environmental agriculture...
0:03:55 > 0:03:59- ..but a lot of that money - is transferred to working capital.
0:03:59 > 0:04:02- I employ lads - to fence and build walls.
0:04:02 > 0:04:05- Very little of that money - stays in my pocket.
0:04:05 > 0:04:10- That sustains local workers - and their families.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13- I employ - as many local lads as I can.
0:04:16 > 0:04:20- Geraint Davies farms - Fedw Arian near Bala.
0:04:20 > 0:04:24- He keeps 1,000 breeding ewes - and 30 cows.
0:04:24 > 0:04:30- Without the payments, - a hill farm would make a loss.
0:04:30 > 0:04:33- We don't receive enough - for our produce.
0:04:33 > 0:04:36- Our production costs are high.
0:04:38 > 0:04:41- What are the obstacles - you face every day?
0:04:42 > 0:04:47- There are a number. - 80% of the farm is classed as SSSI.
0:04:47 > 0:04:52- We receive no help with that - and it's very frustrating.
0:04:52 > 0:04:56- If we end up selling to the WTO...
0:04:56 > 0:04:59- ..and we're bound - by those guidelines...
0:04:59 > 0:05:03- ..which stop us being - competitive across the world...
0:05:03 > 0:05:07- ..we're going to struggle - to compete with countries...
0:05:08 > 0:05:13- ..such as New Zealand, Brazil where - the environment isn't a concern.
0:05:14 > 0:05:16- What would you like - to see happening?
0:05:16 > 0:05:21- A policy that will guarantee - the future of hill farming.
0:05:21 > 0:05:27- The future of carbon storing - will be a major player.
0:05:27 > 0:05:30- We can go to an industry - that pollutes...
0:05:30 > 0:05:33- ..and tell the authorities - that carbon emissions...
0:05:33 > 0:05:35- ..can be offset on hill farms.
0:05:36 > 0:05:39- That's a strong possibility for us.
0:05:42 > 0:05:47- Lord Elis-Thomas is the AM - for Dwyfor Meirionnydd.
0:05:47 > 0:05:51- The constituency - has a high proportion of hill farms.
0:05:51 > 0:05:56- It's important to remember how - different Welsh hill farming is...
0:05:57 > 0:06:01- ..to farming in south-east England - with the emphasis on crops.
0:06:01 > 0:06:06- We need a pattern of supporting - agriculture which guarantees...
0:06:06 > 0:06:10- ..that the food produced here - and people who live here...
0:06:10 > 0:06:12- ..have an income for the future.
0:06:13 > 0:06:17- In other words, - hill farmers need subsidies.
0:06:17 > 0:06:21- Of course because the income - of Welsh farmers, on average...
0:06:22 > 0:06:26- ..is 25,000 - and that's not enough income...
0:06:26 > 0:06:29- ..to sustain the economy - in rural Wales.
0:06:29 > 0:06:32- What we receive - from the European Union...
0:06:32 > 0:06:35- ..and Common Agricultural Policy...
0:06:35 > 0:06:42- ..and the lamb policy in particular - has been crucial for hill farmers.
0:06:42 > 0:06:46- Some argue that hill farmers, - like every other farmer...
0:06:46 > 0:06:49- ..should stand - on their own two feet.
0:06:49 > 0:06:51- They should exist without subsidies.
0:06:51 > 0:06:53- They should exist without subsidies.- - That's not a sound argument.
0:06:54 > 0:06:56- There's only one way to work.
0:06:56 > 0:07:00- You either get a fair price - for the milk or the lambs...
0:07:00 > 0:07:04- ..or you receive support - through subsidies...
0:07:04 > 0:07:07- ..to safeguard other objectives...
0:07:07 > 0:07:11- ..which include environmental - objectives in this area.
0:07:11 > 0:07:15- It's not possible to maintain - the level of farming...
0:07:16 > 0:07:20- ..and land management - in this part of the world...
0:07:20 > 0:07:24- ..if there's no increase - in market price...
0:07:24 > 0:07:28- ..maintaining the market price - through an open market.
0:07:28 > 0:07:31- If we're not part - of the single market...
0:07:31 > 0:07:35- ..how can we export agricultural - produce to the rest of Europe?
0:07:40 > 0:07:45- There's no need for anyone to be - a mathematician to realise...
0:07:45 > 0:07:48- ..the financial uncertainty - faced by hill farmers.
0:07:49 > 0:07:51- On top of losing subsidies...
0:07:51 > 0:07:55- ..is there a possibility - of losing the European market?
0:07:55 > 0:08:00- Meat Promotion Wales - receives a levy of 83p per lamb...
0:08:00 > 0:08:04- ..partially to promote the produce.
0:08:05 > 0:08:08- Prys Morgan - is Meat Promotion Wales'...
0:08:08 > 0:08:12- ..Industry Relations - and Knowledge Exchange Manager.
0:08:12 > 0:08:16- About 35% of lambs produced in Wales - are exported.
0:08:16 > 0:08:22- Of the lambs that are exported, 90% - are exported to the European Union.
0:08:23 > 0:08:29- The financial value of the market - is over 120m.
0:08:29 > 0:08:32- Realistically, - it's worth more than that.
0:08:33 > 0:08:36- It gives processors the opportunity - to balance the carcass.
0:08:36 > 0:08:39- That allows them to sell leg cuts - in this country...
0:08:39 > 0:08:42- ..and the shoulder and loin cuts - can be exported.
0:08:42 > 0:08:46- Can you explain - the possible system of tariffs?
0:08:46 > 0:08:51- Tariffs exists under the WTO, - the World Trade Organisation.
0:08:51 > 0:08:57- They vary - - for lamb it's 46% of the price...
0:08:57 > 0:09:00- ..up to 60% of the price.
0:09:00 > 0:09:05- If that lamb is sold, - if the meat is sold for 100...
0:09:05 > 0:09:09- ..the market which imports it will - have to pay at least 146 for it.
0:09:10 > 0:09:12- It's not competitive in that market.
0:09:12 > 0:09:15- Let's talk about hill farmers.
0:09:16 > 0:09:20- Which markets - need to be targeted for those lambs?
0:09:20 > 0:09:25- There's an available market at home, - in the ethnic communities.
0:09:25 > 0:09:29- They export out - to Italy, Spain and Portugal.
0:09:29 > 0:09:32- As these markets develop...
0:09:32 > 0:09:34- ..they will want more cuts.
0:09:34 > 0:09:38- A larger lamb will suit them better.
0:09:38 > 0:09:43- For example, if a 10-kilo lamb - is cut and it costs 10 to cut it...
0:09:43 > 0:09:45- ..it's 1 a kilo.
0:09:45 > 0:09:51- If a 20-kilo lamb is cut, - it's 50p per kilo.
0:09:53 > 0:09:58- With so much debate, what are - the unions and politicians doing...
0:09:59 > 0:10:02- ..to guarantee hill farming - in the future?
0:10:03 > 0:10:06- Alun visited a special conference - to find out.
0:10:10 > 0:10:14- Westminster's Welsh affairs - committee chose Dolgellau Mart...
0:10:14 > 0:10:18- ..as the venue for the next step - of the Brexit debate.
0:10:18 > 0:10:22- Politicians, unions and farmers - discussed concerns and hopes...
0:10:22 > 0:10:25- ..in the wake - of leaving the European Union.
0:10:26 > 0:10:28- At crucial times such as this...
0:10:28 > 0:10:31- ..you must capitalise - on opportunities...
0:10:31 > 0:10:34- ..to express your concerns.
0:10:34 > 0:10:36- We might not be able - to influence...
0:10:37 > 0:10:41- ..but we hope the politicians - present listen to us.
0:10:41 > 0:10:45- Every pound - the government invests in farming...
0:10:45 > 0:10:50- ..is multiplied many times - before its journey's end.
0:10:51 > 0:10:57- In rural areas, they should see it - as investment in communities...
0:10:57 > 0:10:59- ..and not as payments.
0:11:00 > 0:11:04- Agriculture on hill farms - can only adapt so much.
0:11:04 > 0:11:06- We can't grow crops.
0:11:06 > 0:11:13- We can't diversify - sheep and - beef cattle are our only option.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17- The contribution of agriculture - to the rural economy...
0:11:17 > 0:11:19- ..of North and Mid Wales is crucial.
0:11:19 > 0:11:22- 1 in every 25 jobs - relies on the sector...
0:11:22 > 0:11:26- ..and up to 90% of the produce - is exported to European markets.
0:11:27 > 0:11:30- Chairing the committee - was Conservative David Davies.
0:11:31 > 0:11:35- Mark Williams, Liz Saville Roberts - and Glyn Davies completed the panel.
0:11:36 > 0:11:39- You're known as someone - who supported Brexit.
0:11:39 > 0:11:42- David Davis recently announced....
0:11:42 > 0:11:46- ..that there'd be a tariff - on agricultural produce.
0:11:47 > 0:11:50- How will that affect - the rural economy of this area...
0:11:50 > 0:11:53- ..and the hill farms - of Dolgellau and Meirionnydd?
0:11:53 > 0:11:58- It's not going to be good for this - area, there's no doubt about it...
0:11:58 > 0:12:01- ..but David Davis - is speaking with honesty.
0:12:01 > 0:12:04- There's a possibility of tariffs.
0:12:04 > 0:12:07- If that happened, - we'd receive more money.
0:12:07 > 0:12:10- We import more than we export.
0:12:10 > 0:12:14- With tariffs, - we'd benefit in financial terms.
0:12:15 > 0:12:19- We expect to help - any sector that loses out.
0:12:19 > 0:12:23- At the same time, - David Davis is correct...
0:12:23 > 0:12:25- ..to remember the rest of Europe.
0:12:26 > 0:12:28- If they don't give us a deal...
0:12:28 > 0:12:33- ..we're ready to walk away - without any agreement at all.
0:12:33 > 0:12:37- A lot of people are ready to say - yes, agriculture is important.
0:12:38 > 0:12:41- The reality is - we hear from Westminster...
0:12:41 > 0:12:45- ..that they're ready to consider - all tariffs - this is hard Brexit.
0:12:46 > 0:12:50- What's the reality of that for - farmers and the future of farming?
0:12:50 > 0:12:55- What concerns me on top of that - is the level of funding for Wales.
0:12:56 > 0:12:58- Will it reflect the needs of Wales?
0:12:59 > 0:13:04- Or will it be Brexitted conveniently - and halved?
0:13:04 > 0:13:08- That would be disastrous - and unfair for Welsh farmers?
0:13:08 > 0:13:12- In good faith, political parties - and the Government of Wales...
0:13:12 > 0:13:15- ..has talked about unfettered access - to the single market.
0:13:15 > 0:13:19- Ears may be open but it's how - the UK Government delivers on that.
0:13:20 > 0:13:23- Every step of the way, - the Welsh voice has to be heard.
0:13:24 > 0:13:27- It is so critically important - to the economy...
0:13:27 > 0:13:30- ..of Mid, West and North Wales.
0:13:30 > 0:13:32- Livelihoods are at stake.
0:13:32 > 0:13:34- Yes, there are opportunities.
0:13:34 > 0:13:37- I acknowledge the way - the country voted...
0:13:38 > 0:13:40- ..but we have to get - the right kind of Brexit...
0:13:40 > 0:13:42- ..if our economy is to grow.
0:13:43 > 0:13:46- Presenting the evidence - were union delegates.
0:13:46 > 0:13:51- With subsidies from - the Common Agricultural Plan...
0:13:51 > 0:13:54- ..worth 274m a year - to Welsh farmers...
0:13:55 > 0:13:59- ..how do the unions think - farmers will adapt?
0:13:59 > 0:14:02- The end of this two-year period - is the problem.
0:14:02 > 0:14:06- I think there's a chance - for every area of Wales...
0:14:07 > 0:14:10- ..to survive - in five to ten years...
0:14:10 > 0:14:14- ..but to reach that point, - it's important to have a plan...
0:14:14 > 0:14:17- ..to maintain - the economy of rural Wales...
0:14:17 > 0:14:21- ..not just for farmers - but other rural economies too.
0:14:21 > 0:14:23- At the heart of my evidence...
0:14:23 > 0:14:26- ..was the value of agriculture - to communities in Wales.
0:14:26 > 0:14:30- In Meirionnydd, - average farm profit...
0:14:30 > 0:14:32- ..is 11,000.
0:14:33 > 0:14:36- If you took Welsh farms - as a whole...
0:14:36 > 0:14:42- ..they invested 111,000 - into the wider community.
0:14:42 > 0:14:48- For me, that proves the value of - agriculture to the local economy.
0:14:49 > 0:14:53- People don't appreciate the value - of the Welsh language and culture.
0:14:53 > 0:14:56- We also need to ensure - the future for those...
0:14:56 > 0:14:59- ..for our children - and our children's children.
0:15:03 > 0:15:05- Strong views there.
0:15:06 > 0:15:09- Join us after the break - to hear about the important role...
0:15:10 > 0:15:14- ..conservation and the environment - can play on these mountains.
0:15:15 > 0:15:16- .
0:15:22 > 0:15:22- Subtitles
0:15:22 > 0:15:24- Subtitles- - Subtitles
0:15:27 > 0:15:32- There's no doubt that upland farming - will change after Brexit.
0:15:32 > 0:15:36- Will conservation be its salvation?
0:15:42 > 0:15:47- The future of upland farming after - the Common Agricultural Plan...
0:15:47 > 0:15:51- ..is under discussion - at this conference in Llanrwst.
0:15:51 > 0:15:57- It was organised by the RSPB, Bangor - University and Cynidr Consulting.
0:15:59 > 0:16:03- It's important to bring farmers - and conservationists together.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06- We had Glasdir and Tir Gofal - as past schemes.
0:16:07 > 0:16:11- Some farmers, many farmers - weren't happy with what happened.
0:16:11 > 0:16:15- Conservationists get things wrong, - farmers get things wrong.
0:16:16 > 0:16:18- We have to learn from past mistakes.
0:16:20 > 0:16:24- One of the speakers - was Professor Peter Midmore...
0:16:24 > 0:16:28- ..an expert in environmental - farming policies of upland Wales.
0:16:29 > 0:16:33- Some of the more pessimistic views - that have been expressed...
0:16:33 > 0:16:37- ..are not really justified.
0:16:37 > 0:16:40- Farmers are very adaptable.
0:16:40 > 0:16:45- We assume they'll have the same - costs and reduced revenues...
0:16:45 > 0:16:47- ..as a result of Brexit.
0:16:47 > 0:16:50- Also, they do have - a certain amount of time to adjust.
0:16:51 > 0:16:54- There will be big structural changes - in the uplands...
0:16:54 > 0:16:59- ..in terms of the intensity - of agriculture that's practised.
0:17:00 > 0:17:05- It throws up challenges but there - are a lot of opportunities.
0:17:05 > 0:17:08- For the opportunities - to be realised...
0:17:09 > 0:17:13- ..a strong unified voice is needed - on behalf of farmers in the hills.
0:17:14 > 0:17:17- A message needs to get across - to policy makers.
0:17:17 > 0:17:21- It's not going to be - a treasure chest of new forms...
0:17:22 > 0:17:26- ..of environmental subsidy - that's unlocked by leaving the EU.
0:17:26 > 0:17:30- I think we can look forward - to flexible regulation...
0:17:30 > 0:17:33- ..better targeted means - of supporting farmers.
0:17:33 > 0:17:37- Probably less support - but delivered more efficiently.
0:17:39 > 0:17:43- RSPB Cymru's Land Use Manager - is Arfon Williams.
0:17:43 > 0:17:47- He works with farmers - on a daily basis.
0:17:47 > 0:17:50- What changes does he predict - for upland farmers?
0:17:51 > 0:17:54- Environmental conservation - could be improved.
0:17:55 > 0:17:58- There are problems - with the quality of water.
0:17:58 > 0:18:03- Wildlife has suffered - - a lot of wildlife has disappeared.
0:18:04 > 0:18:08- More needs to be done but as we do - more, there are more opportunities.
0:18:08 > 0:18:12- What will farmers do differently - to maintain a level of funding?
0:18:13 > 0:18:16- So far, farmers have been forced - to produce.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20- That's the requirement of CAP.
0:18:20 > 0:18:24- In the future, farmers need - to manage their land...
0:18:24 > 0:18:27- ..to benefit the public.
0:18:27 > 0:18:30- They need a sustainable way - to manage land.
0:18:33 > 0:18:35- Gwyn Jones is Chief Executive...
0:18:35 > 0:18:39- ..of the European Forum on - Nature Conservation and Pastoralism.
0:18:39 > 0:18:41- What's his vision for the future?
0:18:42 > 0:18:46- Our challenge to the policy - is finding a new situation...
0:18:46 > 0:18:49- ..where farmers - have more in their pocket...
0:18:49 > 0:18:53- ..through farming, - not by any other means...
0:18:53 > 0:18:56- ..but that doesn't lead - to more intensity...
0:18:56 > 0:19:00- ..and losing the public resource - that they currently provide.
0:19:00 > 0:19:02- That's quite a challenge.
0:19:02 > 0:19:06- What we've seen is that farming - with a lot of bio-diversity...
0:19:07 > 0:19:10- ..is marginal farming - and that works both ways.
0:19:10 > 0:19:16- Hill farmers haven't improved - their land because they can't do it.
0:19:16 > 0:19:20- The fact that they can't improve it - is reflected in their pockets.
0:19:20 > 0:19:24- Is there too much - environmental pressure on farmers?
0:19:25 > 0:19:29- Could they be paid in the future - for farming the environment...
0:19:29 > 0:19:31- ..and not farming stock?
0:19:31 > 0:19:33- ..and not farming stock?- - I don't agree with the question.
0:19:33 > 0:19:37- It's a false dichotomy...
0:19:37 > 0:19:41- ..especially in low intensity areas - and the natural habitat lands.
0:19:45 > 0:19:49- Lots of farmers had the opportunity - to talk at the conference.
0:19:50 > 0:19:54- My message was that cooperation - is crucial in uplands areas.
0:19:54 > 0:19:56- It brings personal benefits - for us...
0:19:57 > 0:20:00- ..and wider benefits - for the community too.
0:20:00 > 0:20:02- What kind of benefits?
0:20:02 > 0:20:06- The benefits of healthy food - produced by sustainable means.
0:20:07 > 0:20:10- We store carbon, - we give biodiversity a chance...
0:20:10 > 0:20:13- ..and enhance the catchment scales.
0:20:17 > 0:20:19- Without farmers, we have no animals.
0:20:20 > 0:20:23- Without animals, - we can't manage the land.
0:20:24 > 0:20:28- Wales is beautiful, - it has so much to offer taxpayers.
0:20:28 > 0:20:31- We receive taxpayers' money - and we have to justify that.
0:20:32 > 0:20:35- Grazing the land is very important.
0:20:35 > 0:20:39- Agriculture has more to offer - than food production.
0:20:44 > 0:20:47- Will farmers of the future...
0:20:47 > 0:20:51- ..become wardens - of wildlife in upland areas?
0:20:51 > 0:20:53- Isn't this being done already...
0:20:53 > 0:20:56- ..through environmental - farming schemes?
0:20:57 > 0:21:01- We've been reducing the stock - through environmental farming...
0:21:01 > 0:21:07- ..and we'll probably - have to swap cattle production...
0:21:07 > 0:21:10- ..for environmental production...
0:21:10 > 0:21:15- ..but it's crucial that we retain - the animals to manage vegetation...
0:21:15 > 0:21:18- ..and create the habitat - for wildlife.
0:21:18 > 0:21:22- It'll be cheaper than firing up - a polluting diesel engine...
0:21:22 > 0:21:24- ..to produce the landscape - they require.
0:21:24 > 0:21:31- Undoubtedly, upland farmers are - the backbone of rural communities.
0:21:31 > 0:21:38- If upland farming isn't supported, - people will move away.
0:21:38 > 0:21:43- The Welsh language will suffer - in our schools as a result.
0:21:43 > 0:21:47- The Government has set a target - of a million Welsh speakers.
0:21:48 > 0:21:53- Support us here - and the Welsh language will thrive.
0:21:54 > 0:21:57- Do you think it's time - for things to change?
0:21:57 > 0:21:59- We need to change things.
0:21:59 > 0:22:03- It's a system - that's been abused in the past.
0:22:03 > 0:22:09- Everything comes to an end - but we can start something anew.
0:22:09 > 0:22:13- We could create a positive industry.
0:22:17 > 0:22:20- Agriculture, - like every other industry...
0:22:21 > 0:22:23- ..faces uncertain times.
0:22:23 > 0:22:27- Is agriculture high - on the priority list...
0:22:27 > 0:22:30- ..for the British - and Welsh governments?
0:22:31 > 0:22:33- One thing is certain.
0:22:33 > 0:22:40- If upland farming is to continue, - farmers must change and adapt.
0:22:41 > 0:22:43- We need a future for hill farms.
0:22:44 > 0:22:47- Wildlife in upland areas - rely on them.
0:22:47 > 0:22:52- We must create a system for - the future which is sustainable...
0:22:52 > 0:22:58- ..which includes using - natural resources and ecosystems...
0:22:58 > 0:23:01- ..and take care of the environment.
0:23:01 > 0:23:06- Central to this, we must continue - to produce traditional foods...
0:23:06 > 0:23:09- ..from the stock we rear - on the hills.
0:23:10 > 0:23:11- I hope there's a future.
0:23:11 > 0:23:13- If there's no future...
0:23:13 > 0:23:17- ..it'll be detrimental - to our environment and society.
0:23:17 > 0:23:19- It's a moral question.
0:23:19 > 0:23:23- If society wants farmers - to provide the produce...
0:23:23 > 0:23:26- ..we have to give them a fair price.
0:23:26 > 0:23:30- If it's clear that the market - can't provide a fair price...
0:23:30 > 0:23:32- ..the policy must guarantee it.
0:23:33 > 0:23:36- Can you live on this land - without subsidies?
0:23:36 > 0:23:39- No. Simple.
0:23:58 > 0:24:00- S4C Subtitles by Adnod Cyf.
0:24:00 > 0:24:00- .