0:00:02 > 0:00:05Throughout history, land has meant power.
0:00:05 > 0:00:10Little wonder, then, that the question of who owns Scotland has become so vexed.
0:00:10 > 0:00:13This week on Landward, we tackle land reform.
0:00:32 > 0:00:37How land is managed touches every aspect of our lives.
0:00:37 > 0:00:40Whether you live in the town or the country, the price of property,
0:00:40 > 0:00:43the cost of food and the way in which we spend our spare time
0:00:43 > 0:00:46are all affected by our system of land ownership,
0:00:46 > 0:00:49which is why we're devoting the whole programme to examine
0:00:49 > 0:00:51the new land reform proposals.
0:00:53 > 0:00:58Euan meets the largest landowner in the country, the Duke of Buccleuch.
0:00:58 > 0:01:02What worries me is that this precious legislative time
0:01:02 > 0:01:06is not really addressing the issues of what we do with the land.
0:01:06 > 0:01:09I visit the community-owned woodland on Mull
0:01:09 > 0:01:12providing new opportunities for young families.
0:01:12 > 0:01:15It's an opportunity for us to build something for the future
0:01:15 > 0:01:17and have some security.
0:01:17 > 0:01:21And Sarah takes a trip to Norway, to find out how THEY do things.
0:01:23 > 0:01:25The government can decide that you are not allowed
0:01:25 > 0:01:28to buy any more land, because this farm is big enough.
0:01:29 > 0:01:31But before all that,
0:01:31 > 0:01:34Sarah explains the basics of what is being suggested.
0:01:36 > 0:01:40A year ago, Nicola Sturgeon announced her first programme for government.
0:01:40 > 0:01:42Her proposals included what she described
0:01:42 > 0:01:45as a radical programme of land reform.
0:01:46 > 0:01:52Scotland's land must be an asset that benefits the many, not the few.
0:01:52 > 0:01:53APPLAUSE
0:01:53 > 0:01:56In June this year, the Land Reform Bill was introduced
0:01:56 > 0:02:00by the Scottish Government, and next year, it is expected to become law.
0:02:02 > 0:02:04The central proposals are -
0:02:04 > 0:02:07that sporting estates should pay business rates,
0:02:07 > 0:02:10ending an exemption that dates back to the '90s.
0:02:10 > 0:02:13A new Land Reform Commission will be established.
0:02:13 > 0:02:16Its job will be to advise the government on land issues
0:02:16 > 0:02:20and to make sure land reform continues beyond this bill.
0:02:20 > 0:02:23There are also a number of wide-ranging changes
0:02:23 > 0:02:26to the law governing farm tenancies.
0:02:26 > 0:02:31We'll look at the tenancy proposals later in the series.
0:02:31 > 0:02:34But perhaps one of the most controversial aspects of the bill
0:02:34 > 0:02:38is a new right that would force landowners to sell their land
0:02:38 > 0:02:40to community groups, if it was decided
0:02:40 > 0:02:44that the landowner was standing in the way of sustainable development.
0:02:44 > 0:02:48As it stands, the new rules would apply to any landowner,
0:02:48 > 0:02:49large or small.
0:02:50 > 0:02:53For some, forcing people to sell their property,
0:02:53 > 0:02:57no matter what the aim, is just a step too far.
0:02:57 > 0:03:00For others, though, the proposals do not go far enough,
0:03:00 > 0:03:04with no controls over how much land one individual can own
0:03:04 > 0:03:06or who can own land.
0:03:06 > 0:03:10Some of the SNP's own membership doesn't think the current bill
0:03:10 > 0:03:12goes far enough.
0:03:12 > 0:03:14At the party's conference in October,
0:03:14 > 0:03:17they sent a message to their leadership.
0:03:18 > 0:03:24Does radical land reform leave 750,000, three quarters of a million acres of Scotland,
0:03:24 > 0:03:28in the hands of our accountable, nameless corporations
0:03:28 > 0:03:31based in tax havens across the globe?
0:03:31 > 0:03:33No, it doesn't, and we have the power to change that now.
0:03:33 > 0:03:36CHEERING
0:03:36 > 0:03:37After what happened at the conference,
0:03:37 > 0:03:40many experts are saying that we're likely to see
0:03:40 > 0:03:43a commitment to even more land reform
0:03:43 > 0:03:49in the SNP manifesto for the 2016 Scottish parliamentary election.
0:03:49 > 0:03:52But in the meantime, let's rewind a little.
0:03:52 > 0:03:55Why is there thought to be a need for land reform?
0:03:55 > 0:03:57Dougie is in Edinburgh to find out.
0:04:00 > 0:04:06Scotland is said to have the most concentrated pattern of land ownership in Europe,
0:04:06 > 0:04:12with fewer than 500 people controlling half of all privately-owned land.
0:04:13 > 0:04:15I have come to the National Library of Scotland
0:04:15 > 0:04:18to meet historian Dr Annie Tindley,
0:04:18 > 0:04:21who has studied the history of land ownership in depth.
0:04:24 > 0:04:27Annie, we have this concentrated pattern of land ownership in Scotland.
0:04:27 > 0:04:29How did we get to that point?
0:04:29 > 0:04:32Well, it is a long process. It takes hundreds of years.
0:04:32 > 0:04:37It starts with the Crown granting land to loyal families,
0:04:37 > 0:04:39families that have given them military service,
0:04:39 > 0:04:44perhaps had served them in other ways, such as bastard sons, etc.
0:04:44 > 0:04:47So land is given, granted as rewards.
0:04:47 > 0:04:50But then, on top of that, when families built up power
0:04:50 > 0:04:54and wealth, they would add land to their estates through purchase,
0:04:54 > 0:04:56through marriage, through inheritance,
0:04:56 > 0:04:58so it is a very dynastic process.
0:05:01 > 0:05:04So, this map gives us a beautiful illustration...
0:05:04 > 0:05:08'Annie has studied the papers of the Sutherland estate in particular.'
0:05:08 > 0:05:11It was once the largest estate in Western Europe
0:05:11 > 0:05:16and notorious for clearing crofters off their land to make way for sheep.
0:05:17 > 0:05:22Like many big estates, it was not until the late 19th century
0:05:22 > 0:05:24that their fortunes began to change.
0:05:24 > 0:05:27Sheep farming was proving less profitable
0:05:27 > 0:05:29and then, in the early 20th century,
0:05:29 > 0:05:32along came reformer David Lloyd George
0:05:32 > 0:05:36and his proposals for land tax, which caught the popular imagination.
0:05:38 > 0:05:42In the 1909 People's Budget, he introduces an increase
0:05:42 > 0:05:47in death duties and also a so-called super tax on the super-wealthy.
0:05:47 > 0:05:52So there are financial implications from that budget but also,
0:05:52 > 0:05:54it is more of the psychological impact.
0:05:58 > 0:06:01Like many other estates in the early 20th century,
0:06:01 > 0:06:03Sutherland began to sell off land.
0:06:03 > 0:06:05But not to the common people.
0:06:05 > 0:06:07Yes, indeed. Now, this is a brochure.
0:06:07 > 0:06:09This is where you can see the marketing for the...
0:06:09 > 0:06:14A beautiful sales brochure was put together to market the land as sporting estates.
0:06:14 > 0:06:17It would appeal to the new wealthy industrialists.
0:06:17 > 0:06:21It describes how there is just over 100,000 acres to be sold.
0:06:21 > 0:06:23'This map laid out the options.'
0:06:23 > 0:06:26Say you owned a nice run of mills in Paisley
0:06:26 > 0:06:28and you wanted your own sporting estate,
0:06:28 > 0:06:33you could come along to the offices of Knight, Frank and maybe decide
0:06:33 > 0:06:35which one you would like to bid for at auction in London.
0:06:35 > 0:06:39- In London?- Indeed, in London.- Not in Scotland? So it wasn't even sold off in Scotland,
0:06:39 > 0:06:42- I would have to go London to... - No, because the market is in London. - Right.- Yeah.
0:06:42 > 0:06:44So that is where your stockbrokers live,
0:06:44 > 0:06:46that's where your industrialists live.
0:06:46 > 0:06:49So that is where the auctions take place.
0:06:49 > 0:06:53Overseen by Knight, Frank, the great estate agents who made
0:06:53 > 0:06:57an absolute fortune in this post-war period, it has to be said.
0:07:00 > 0:07:04Many landed families lost men in the First World War
0:07:04 > 0:07:10and with inheritance tax as high as 40%, estates had to sell off land.
0:07:10 > 0:07:12Between 1918 and 1922,
0:07:12 > 0:07:16a quarter of all land in the country changed hands.
0:07:16 > 0:07:18But almost a century later,
0:07:18 > 0:07:21a quarter of Scotland's biggest estates still remain
0:07:21 > 0:07:25in the hands of families who have owned them for more than 400 years.
0:07:27 > 0:07:32With fewer than 500 people controlling half of all privately-owned land.
0:07:34 > 0:07:37To tackle this concentration of land ownership,
0:07:37 > 0:07:39the government wants to double the amount of land
0:07:39 > 0:07:46owned by communities from 500,000 acres to a million by 2020.
0:07:46 > 0:07:49That would be around 5% of our land.
0:07:50 > 0:07:55Euan is in South Lanarkshire, to visit one community keen to buy.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00This is the village of Leadhills.
0:08:00 > 0:08:04It's surrounded by grouse moors owned by Leadhills Estate.
0:08:04 > 0:08:08In order to force a landowner to sell the land against their will,
0:08:08 > 0:08:13a community would have to show that that landowner was blocking sustainable development.
0:08:13 > 0:08:16And there are those that feel the village of Leadhills, behind me,
0:08:16 > 0:08:20is the perfect example of how that legislation could be applied.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26Pat Wilders is the chair of the Leadhills Community Company.
0:08:27 > 0:08:30Why do you want to buy bits of that estate?
0:08:30 > 0:08:33It's a lovely wee village, it's quite idyllic.
0:08:33 > 0:08:35Yes, but there is no opportunity for employment
0:08:35 > 0:08:38or training here for any of the residents
0:08:38 > 0:08:42and we'd like to have a really good economic growth here.
0:08:42 > 0:08:45And if we own the land, we can do that.
0:08:45 > 0:08:48- Is that not happening at the moment? - No.
0:08:48 > 0:08:51It is only used for shooting
0:08:51 > 0:08:56and the only thing that the estate has come up with is a wind farm.
0:08:56 > 0:09:01We would like tourism, a little bit of agriculture, forestry, maybe.
0:09:01 > 0:09:03Cottage industries
0:09:03 > 0:09:06and then, affordable housing for the youngsters so they can stay here.
0:09:06 > 0:09:09And that will all generate employment
0:09:09 > 0:09:11and training opportunities.
0:09:11 > 0:09:14Are there opportunities for tourism?
0:09:14 > 0:09:17- Would people want to walk here? - I think so,
0:09:17 > 0:09:19because it's very beautiful if you go up on the hills.
0:09:19 > 0:09:22- It's absolutely gorgeous. - But why is that not happening?
0:09:22 > 0:09:26Here we are in the village, surrounded by the great outdoors, why is it not happening?
0:09:26 > 0:09:29Because it's for grouse shooting
0:09:29 > 0:09:33and they don't really like a lot of people setting foot
0:09:33 > 0:09:34and upsetting the grouse.
0:09:34 > 0:09:37I can't put it any plainer than that,
0:09:37 > 0:09:38but that is what happens.
0:09:38 > 0:09:42- So, you're an island community, surrounded by grouse moor?- Yes.
0:09:42 > 0:09:43We are. Completely.
0:09:47 > 0:09:52Pat clearly thinks that they could do a better job of managing the land than the estate.
0:09:52 > 0:09:54But it can be difficult to make money
0:09:54 > 0:09:57from large tracts of relatively infertile land
0:09:57 > 0:10:02and some previous community buyouts have struggled to balance the books.
0:10:03 > 0:10:08Landowners say it takes a lot of hard work, specialist expertise
0:10:08 > 0:10:13and, quite often, a second income to keep an estate running successfully.
0:10:15 > 0:10:18One man who knows a thing or two about the area
0:10:18 > 0:10:21is the Leadhills estate manager, Donald Noble.
0:10:21 > 0:10:26These are all miners' rows and each miner was basically given
0:10:26 > 0:10:29an area of ground out on the surrounding hill.
0:10:29 > 0:10:34And he believes the estate does contribute to the local economy.
0:10:34 > 0:10:38It welcomes thousands of people every year on its paths and tracks,
0:10:38 > 0:10:41walking, cycling, fishing.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44It has the highest golf course in Scotland,
0:10:44 > 0:10:46it's got a narrow gauge railway,
0:10:46 > 0:10:48the highest one in Britain, actually.
0:10:48 > 0:10:52And we work with these various groups and bodies to see
0:10:52 > 0:10:55if we can develop more interesting tourist attractions on the place.
0:10:55 > 0:10:57Is this kind of thing difficult for relations?
0:10:57 > 0:11:00This is a small community, you're one estate.
0:11:00 > 0:11:02Does it create a lot of friction?
0:11:04 > 0:11:06I don't think so.
0:11:06 > 0:11:08I meet with a lot of community groups
0:11:08 > 0:11:10and we have very good relationships.
0:11:10 > 0:11:12We are very accessible.
0:11:12 > 0:11:16Clearly, there are some individuals that feel
0:11:16 > 0:11:19that the estate is not contributing as much as it could do
0:11:19 > 0:11:21and we want to address that as well.
0:11:21 > 0:11:26Despite what the estate says, Leadhills Community Company are clear -
0:11:26 > 0:11:29they still want to pursue the right to buy.
0:11:29 > 0:11:31But until the new laws are implemented
0:11:31 > 0:11:33and a few test cases go through,
0:11:33 > 0:11:39it's hard to predict in what circumstances communities will be able to force the sale of land.
0:11:40 > 0:11:44Most of the existing buyouts have happened in the north and the west,
0:11:44 > 0:11:46and Dougie is heading there now in search of one.
0:11:51 > 0:11:53Under the current legislation,
0:11:53 > 0:11:56it isn't easy for communities to buy land.
0:11:56 > 0:11:58Even buying from a willing seller,
0:11:58 > 0:12:02it requires a lot of hard graft and form filling.
0:12:02 > 0:12:05But many communities have done it and are reaping the benefits,
0:12:05 > 0:12:08including one on the island of Mull.
0:12:08 > 0:12:11I'm off to visit a community woodland which was bought
0:12:11 > 0:12:15from the Forestry Commission by island residents back in 2006.
0:12:19 > 0:12:23The Northwest Mull Community Woodland Company was established to buy
0:12:23 > 0:12:28and then manage 700 hectares of woodland on the island.
0:12:28 > 0:12:32- So, what are we seeing in front of us here, Malcolm?- So, we're seeing...
0:12:32 > 0:12:36'Malcolm Lord is the company's development manager.'
0:12:36 > 0:12:38Forestry is a long-term proposition.
0:12:38 > 0:12:39It is a sustainable proposition,
0:12:39 > 0:12:43but the money does not come quickly from forestry.
0:12:43 > 0:12:45Let's go right back to the very beginning, then.
0:12:45 > 0:12:49Why did the community want to buy a woodland in the first place?
0:12:49 > 0:12:50Well, it's just that.
0:12:50 > 0:12:56Essentially to provide a sustainable proposition for the community as a whole.
0:12:56 > 0:13:02The intention really being to create a lasting legacy
0:13:02 > 0:13:10that future generations could then also benefit financially and socially from.
0:13:10 > 0:13:13The company is managed by a board of seven directors
0:13:13 > 0:13:16elected from and by the local community.
0:13:16 > 0:13:19We have a voters' roll of 350 in this area
0:13:19 > 0:13:24and more than half are members of the company itself,
0:13:24 > 0:13:26so they all have a vote.
0:13:26 > 0:13:29- Does that make things tricky, potentially?- It can do.
0:13:29 > 0:13:31Everyone has got their own opinion
0:13:31 > 0:13:34and fortunately, for the most part, that is all positive
0:13:34 > 0:13:38and...it's very much a help, you know,
0:13:38 > 0:13:41everyone's your boss, quite rightly.
0:13:42 > 0:13:45This stuff here, is this all recently felled?
0:13:45 > 0:13:47The company has plans to sell housing plots,
0:13:47 > 0:13:53build a micro-hydro scheme and even establish a woodland burial site.
0:13:53 > 0:13:56They ship timber in bulk to the mainland
0:13:56 > 0:14:00and also sell logs and woodchip on the island itself,
0:14:00 > 0:14:04guaranteeing a secure supply for the hospital, amongst others.
0:14:04 > 0:14:07Wow, look at that! That is a fair amount, isn't it?
0:14:07 > 0:14:08We chip once a month.
0:14:08 > 0:14:12The island has a requirement for wood fuel in various forms,
0:14:12 > 0:14:17so it's a good means of making some cash.
0:14:17 > 0:14:21The buyout is also providing opportunities for the wider community
0:14:21 > 0:14:23to lease newly created affordable crofts
0:14:23 > 0:14:27in this recently harvested woodland area.
0:14:27 > 0:14:30I want to meet a young family who are set to benefit.
0:14:30 > 0:14:34But to do that, I must summon the ferry over to the wee island of Ulva,
0:14:34 > 0:14:36just over there, off Mull,
0:14:36 > 0:14:39because that's where they're based right now.
0:14:39 > 0:14:42On the other side of this narrow stretch of water
0:14:42 > 0:14:44is a delightful little seafood cafe.
0:14:46 > 0:14:48It's run by the Munro family.
0:14:48 > 0:14:50They don't own it, though.
0:14:50 > 0:14:54Instead, it is rented with no long-term guarantees.
0:14:55 > 0:15:02'However, they've recently managed to secure one of the nine newly created crofts over on Mull.'
0:15:02 > 0:15:03All the best, cheers.
0:15:03 > 0:15:05'And are already making plans.'
0:15:06 > 0:15:07Since we've had children,
0:15:07 > 0:15:11we're looking for kind of longer-term security
0:15:11 > 0:15:13and, unfortunately, we'll never have the opportunity
0:15:13 > 0:15:16to buy or own anything here,
0:15:16 > 0:15:19so when the forest crofts came up, it's an opportunity for us
0:15:19 > 0:15:23to build something for the future and have some security.
0:15:23 > 0:15:25Yeah. But leaving here, though, I would imagine
0:15:25 > 0:15:29- would be a bit of a wrench as well, wouldn't it?- Yeah, it would.
0:15:29 > 0:15:30I grew up here as a child
0:15:30 > 0:15:33and my father still does the boat after 20-odd years,
0:15:33 > 0:15:36so it wouldn't be easy, but you've just got to think about the future.
0:15:36 > 0:15:39- You've got to think about the wee fella here.- Yeah.- The wriggler.
0:15:39 > 0:15:41- And his big sister as well. BOTH:- Yeah.
0:15:41 > 0:15:43And do you not think it's going to be quite difficult,
0:15:43 > 0:15:47because you're obviously going to be giving up the business - is that not quite a concern,
0:15:47 > 0:15:49or are you looking forward to the prospect of the future?
0:15:49 > 0:15:51We're excited for the challenge.
0:15:51 > 0:15:54We've kind of... We've... We've been doing this a while,
0:15:54 > 0:15:56we've made it successful, so...
0:15:56 > 0:15:58And if we start again somewhere else,
0:15:58 > 0:16:02- we know what we're doing now. When we started here, we didn't. - No, we didn't have a clue.
0:16:02 > 0:16:04- No.- So, there's a lot of potential in the croft to
0:16:04 > 0:16:08do something maybe not similar, but... I don't know...
0:16:08 > 0:16:10- Something a bit different. - Something a bit different.
0:16:14 > 0:16:17A few hours later, on mainland Mull,
0:16:17 > 0:16:21Rhuri and the family take me to see the site of their new croft -
0:16:21 > 0:16:24the place where they are investing all their hopes and dreams.
0:16:26 > 0:16:29At the moment, it looks like a battlefield.
0:16:30 > 0:16:33- It does look a bit...- Yeah. - ..desolate.
0:16:33 > 0:16:35It's a long way to go, that's for sure.
0:16:36 > 0:16:39But there's a big incentive to take this on.
0:16:39 > 0:16:45The rent is less than £150 a year and the lease is totally secure.
0:16:45 > 0:16:47Their kids will even be able to inherit it.
0:16:49 > 0:16:52A much more affordable model than other options.
0:16:54 > 0:16:57What are land prices like on Mull, are they pretty expensive?
0:16:57 > 0:17:02You're looking at just a house plot with a small garden, 80,000.
0:17:02 > 0:17:05So you think, yeah, we could probably get that, get the house bought,
0:17:05 > 0:17:10then you've got to build a house after that, so you just think, is it feasible?
0:17:10 > 0:17:13It's a problem all over the country, it's not just Mull. So, er...
0:17:13 > 0:17:16this seemed like a good opportunity and a good adventure,
0:17:16 > 0:17:18but we're only just beginning the adventure.
0:17:18 > 0:17:20Five years' time,
0:17:20 > 0:17:22come back and you'll shake my hand and be really impressed.
0:17:22 > 0:17:24It's a deal.
0:17:25 > 0:17:27And we wish the Munro family well
0:17:27 > 0:17:30with their mammoth task of clearing this site.
0:17:33 > 0:17:36I've been impressed with the ambition of the folk here on Mull
0:17:36 > 0:17:38and what they've achieved so far.
0:17:38 > 0:17:41They bought the woodland from a willing seller.
0:17:41 > 0:17:43Of course, under the new proposals,
0:17:43 > 0:17:48landowners could be forced to sell their land against their will.
0:17:48 > 0:17:52Unsurprisingly, that's causing a lot of concern amongst landowners,
0:17:52 > 0:17:55including the very largest, the Duke of Buccleuch.
0:17:57 > 0:17:59Euan has more.
0:17:59 > 0:18:02The Scottish Government has been quite clear -
0:18:02 > 0:18:06they want to diversify land ownership throughout Scotland.
0:18:06 > 0:18:08And in a sense that could make the Duke of Buccleuch
0:18:08 > 0:18:12public enemy number one, being the country's biggest landowner,
0:18:12 > 0:18:15owning around a quarter of a million acres.
0:18:15 > 0:18:17And just to ram that point home,
0:18:17 > 0:18:19I've been driving for about an hour now
0:18:19 > 0:18:20and I think for most of that time,
0:18:20 > 0:18:23I've been driving through Buccleuch land.
0:18:25 > 0:18:28But is big necessarily bad?
0:18:31 > 0:18:35'John Glen, the chief executive of Buccleuch, doesn't think so.
0:18:35 > 0:18:37'He's showing me an opencast coal mine
0:18:37 > 0:18:39'on one of the Buccleuch estates.'
0:18:39 > 0:18:42Wow. This is a beast.
0:18:43 > 0:18:47When the operator went bust, Buccleuch stepped in and worked with
0:18:47 > 0:18:51other bodies to keep the mine operating, securing 60 jobs.
0:18:52 > 0:18:55Longer term, they have plans to transform this area
0:18:55 > 0:18:59into an energy park, guaranteeing more jobs.
0:18:59 > 0:19:01John argues the size of Buccleuch
0:19:01 > 0:19:04makes developments like this possible.
0:19:04 > 0:19:07Ownership comes with responsibility.
0:19:08 > 0:19:10And landowners have to be responsible, they have to be
0:19:10 > 0:19:13prepared, so there's a lot to be welcomed in the direction
0:19:13 > 0:19:17of travel in the land form, in terms of identifying who landowners are,
0:19:17 > 0:19:20making them actually think about what they're doing with that
0:19:20 > 0:19:23and engaging with communities about
0:19:23 > 0:19:27what are the choices that could be made, and this is an example.
0:19:27 > 0:19:28So, I think that's all very positive.
0:19:28 > 0:19:32My experience is that the majority of landowners actually
0:19:32 > 0:19:36would like and are trying to do the right thing.
0:19:36 > 0:19:40Let the radicals on the land ownership side dominate the debate,
0:19:40 > 0:19:42you could end up with the wrong solution.
0:19:44 > 0:19:47Just down the road, on the site of another former coal mine,
0:19:47 > 0:19:53is a landscape art project designed by renowned artist Charles Jencks.
0:19:54 > 0:19:56He came up here and he just fell in love.
0:19:56 > 0:19:58He said, "I'd like to do one of my artworks."
0:20:00 > 0:20:02'Duke Richard, the 10th Duke of Buccleuch,
0:20:02 > 0:20:06'funded the development, with the hope it would draw in visitors.'
0:20:06 > 0:20:09The Scottish Government have said they want to increase
0:20:09 > 0:20:11diversity in land ownership in Scotland.
0:20:11 > 0:20:13Do you welcome that, or where do you sit on that?
0:20:13 > 0:20:15Why do they want that?
0:20:15 > 0:20:19I mean, I pose the question because it seems to me
0:20:19 > 0:20:23that that's not the immediate issue that we've got to grapple with.
0:20:23 > 0:20:26I can understand that there are people who don't like
0:20:26 > 0:20:29the idea of big landowners like us, and never will,
0:20:29 > 0:20:32and they will want to change it, and I accept that.
0:20:32 > 0:20:36But what worries me is that this precious legislative time
0:20:36 > 0:20:40is not really addressing the issues about what we DO with the land
0:20:40 > 0:20:43and how we can work better in partnership.
0:20:43 > 0:20:46In fact, it muddies the waters because it's so divisive.
0:20:46 > 0:20:50To me, the absolute priority is getting land ownership
0:20:50 > 0:20:53that delivers change in how we use the land.
0:20:53 > 0:20:56I think big landowners have a part to play.
0:20:56 > 0:20:59In fact, there are lots of smaller landowners,
0:20:59 > 0:21:01but big landowners with big projects like this
0:21:01 > 0:21:05are the only people who have got the long-term commitment
0:21:05 > 0:21:09and the resources to make changes like this happen.
0:21:09 > 0:21:12'While many people feel it's wrong for one man to own
0:21:12 > 0:21:14'a quarter of a million acres,
0:21:14 > 0:21:17'the current proposals would do little to change that,
0:21:17 > 0:21:21'with no limits proposed on who can own land, or how much.
0:21:23 > 0:21:26'Other countries have much stricter laws - as Sarah found out.'
0:21:34 > 0:21:38Norway has one of the most regulated land markets in the world,
0:21:38 > 0:21:42with controls over who can own land, what they can do with it
0:21:42 > 0:21:43and how much they can own.
0:21:46 > 0:21:51'Kristin Ianssen is the vice president of the farmers' union in Norway.
0:21:51 > 0:21:54'She's also a pig farmer, but because of health restrictions
0:21:54 > 0:21:57'this is the closest I can get to her pigs.'
0:21:57 > 0:22:01It's hard not to say, "Aww," when you see a little pig, isn't it?
0:22:01 > 0:22:04- They are very nice.- Very cute. - Yeah, I like my work.
0:22:04 > 0:22:07'After a quick change, Kristin gives me
0:22:07 > 0:22:10'a lesson in local land laws.'
0:22:10 > 0:22:14First of all, it's the oldest child has the best right to buy
0:22:14 > 0:22:18the farm from its parents, at a reduced price.
0:22:18 > 0:22:21A farmer has to live on the farm
0:22:21 > 0:22:26and it has to make sure that all the land is farmed.
0:22:26 > 0:22:31It's limited how big you can become -
0:22:31 > 0:22:35I mean, you're only allowed to buy farmland
0:22:35 > 0:22:38to farm, not an investment.
0:22:38 > 0:22:41So it's...
0:22:41 > 0:22:44The government can decide that you're not allowed to buy
0:22:44 > 0:22:47any more land because this farm is big enough.
0:22:47 > 0:22:50But can you make a good living being a farmer?
0:22:50 > 0:22:54Yes. I would say that a good farmer, a clever farmer
0:22:54 > 0:22:57earns money and has a good living,
0:22:57 > 0:23:03because we have regulated prices and a regulated market
0:23:03 > 0:23:06to make sure that we are able to farm.
0:23:06 > 0:23:09'Norwegian farming is heavily subsidised
0:23:09 > 0:23:15'and its produce is protected by high duties on foreign imports.'
0:23:15 > 0:23:16Why are these values,
0:23:16 > 0:23:20why is the system so important to Norwegians?
0:23:20 > 0:23:24I think Norwegians
0:23:24 > 0:23:26are aware that we need to produce
0:23:26 > 0:23:30some of our own food and as much as we can.
0:23:30 > 0:23:33On the other hand, it's also important for Norwegians to know
0:23:33 > 0:23:36that we control the land
0:23:36 > 0:23:38and that we, erm...
0:23:38 > 0:23:42keep the Norwegian ownership on our resources.
0:23:44 > 0:23:47The average size of a farm in Norway is almost 60 acres,
0:23:47 > 0:23:50which is relatively small by Scottish standards.
0:23:50 > 0:23:53And driving around the countryside, you do get a sense of
0:23:53 > 0:23:56the limits of the law that cap the size a farm can be.
0:23:56 > 0:24:00For instance, from this point alone, I can see...
0:24:00 > 0:24:02six farms
0:24:02 > 0:24:04and everything is so neat and structured.
0:24:17 > 0:24:21Now I'm heading north from Oslo to find out how the regulations
0:24:21 > 0:24:24make land affordable.
0:24:24 > 0:24:28Lila and Petar Jensen have just bought a small farm.
0:24:28 > 0:24:30- Hello.- Hi...
0:24:30 > 0:24:35'Petar and Lila are friends of rural development expert John Bryden,
0:24:35 > 0:24:37'who's introducing me.'
0:24:39 > 0:24:42- I'd love a look around, can we go and see the farm? - Oh, yeah. We'll show you round.
0:24:47 > 0:24:50How easy was it for you to buy land?
0:24:50 > 0:24:52Well, it was lucky that we had a house
0:24:52 > 0:24:58in an area where it was easy to sell, so we could buy the farm.
0:24:58 > 0:25:00'And Petar thinks the younger generation
0:25:00 > 0:25:03'could easily afford to buy too.'
0:25:03 > 0:25:07I can give you an example. There was a farm just north of here,
0:25:07 > 0:25:1220 minutes from a fairly large town by Norwegian standards.
0:25:12 > 0:25:17It was sold for 140,000 British pounds
0:25:17 > 0:25:22and the size was four hectares of cultivated land
0:25:22 > 0:25:26and 14 hectares of forest, beautifully located by a lake.
0:25:26 > 0:25:30So, a young couple would have no problem buying that.
0:25:30 > 0:25:33Unless they are related to the owner, farm buyers in Norway
0:25:33 > 0:25:37must obtain what's called a concession from the local authority.
0:25:37 > 0:25:39John, who has lived in Norway for seven years,
0:25:39 > 0:25:42thinks that has benefits.
0:25:42 > 0:25:45The municipality will take the decision
0:25:45 > 0:25:47based on a number of criteria,
0:25:47 > 0:25:52including the effect on prices, the effect on the local community,
0:25:52 > 0:25:55whether you're qualified to farm, so on and so forth,
0:25:55 > 0:25:58so it's quite a complicated and thorough process,
0:25:58 > 0:26:02which cuts down speculative purchase of land
0:26:02 > 0:26:07and anyone who's just holding it as an asset, you know,
0:26:07 > 0:26:09and, therefore, it cuts the price, of course,
0:26:09 > 0:26:12and makes it more accessible to people.
0:26:12 > 0:26:14So, having obviously researched, you know...
0:26:14 > 0:26:17I mean, obviously, knowing what's going on in Scotland
0:26:17 > 0:26:19at the moment and I appreciate it's a very broad brush,
0:26:19 > 0:26:22but what could Scotland learn from this model?
0:26:23 > 0:26:25Well, I think they could learn that, you know,
0:26:25 > 0:26:30people CAN have access to smallholdings like this,
0:26:30 > 0:26:34small farms, and they can do something interesting with it.
0:26:34 > 0:26:38It opens up the market, as it were,
0:26:38 > 0:26:40to young people with ideas
0:26:40 > 0:26:42and I think that's a very good thing.
0:26:47 > 0:26:49It's been so interesting travelling around the country
0:26:49 > 0:26:53and learning about a different model of land ownership.
0:26:53 > 0:26:56I think it would be impossible to suddenly apply the rules
0:26:56 > 0:27:01found here in Norway to Scotland, even if it WAS considered desirable.
0:27:01 > 0:27:03But what I've found fascinating is that controls
0:27:03 > 0:27:08which would be considered radical, extreme at home,
0:27:08 > 0:27:11are considered totally commonplace here.
0:27:15 > 0:27:17The Scottish Government says they think...
0:27:35 > 0:27:37It also seems possible that this bill will just be
0:27:37 > 0:27:41the first step in a continuing programme of land reform.
0:27:42 > 0:27:46A process that has the potential to change lives in rural Scotland
0:27:46 > 0:27:47and beyond.