Brian Cookson - President of the International Cycling Union

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:00:00. > :00:14.that at the moment does not look likely. Now on BBC News, it's time

:00:15. > :00:18.for Extra Time. Extra time today comes from the sport accord

:00:19. > :00:23.convention at a resort on the southern coast of Turkey, where the

:00:24. > :00:25.keynote address on day one was delivered by the new president of

:00:26. > :00:30.the International cycling union, Brian Cookson. Rarely has a sport in

:00:31. > :00:33.in such turmoil, stretching back to the late 20th century with the

:00:34. > :00:38.doping scandals which engulfed the two to France. Its seven time

:00:39. > :00:41.champion Lance Armstrong was stripped of his titles. The election

:00:42. > :00:48.of Brian Cookson was a contentious affair, but he has a mission to

:00:49. > :01:17.clear up the sport. It has certainly landed him in some controversy.

:01:18. > :01:22.Brian Cookson, welcome to this addition of extra time. The first

:01:23. > :01:26.line of your election manifesto was that you are a cyclist. It is a good

:01:27. > :01:33.slogan, of course. At political skill is surely more important? I

:01:34. > :01:39.don't think they are alternatives. You have to be a part of the sport

:01:40. > :01:42.you're administering. Surely, to have a good understanding of the

:01:43. > :01:47.sport is absolutely essential. I have been a cyclist all my life. My

:01:48. > :01:49.earliest memories were riding on a track at home. Cycling has

:01:50. > :01:57.eliminated my life. It enhances your credibility. Yes, absolutely. You

:01:58. > :02:00.were opposed last September in Florence by the incumbent. He

:02:01. > :02:04.challenged you are a number of technicalities. He even suggested

:02:05. > :02:06.towards the end of the election that the ethics committee was

:02:07. > :02:10.investigating an allegation that you had offered the Greek cycling

:02:11. > :02:17.Federation 20,000 euros to back you in the election. That is nonsense. I

:02:18. > :02:25.don't operate that way. That is absolutely untrue. We are now in the

:02:26. > :02:35.process of establishing a new ethics commission, and that is one of the

:02:36. > :02:49.allegations that is going to be put to them, to let them come up with a

:02:50. > :02:58.genuine Independent that investigation. We will talk about

:02:59. > :03:07.that in a moment. As far as the election is concerned, it is fair to

:03:08. > :03:15.say that they manoeuvred things to a certain extent. Would it be fair to

:03:16. > :03:20.say that you were entirely without guile in that process? We had a

:03:21. > :03:28.strategy. As a team, we had good people around me with good advice. I

:03:29. > :03:36.think we were certainly, we were prepared for some shenanigans, if I

:03:37. > :03:44.can put it that way. But I don't think we were prepared for the

:03:45. > :03:49.number of lawyers that my opponents produced on the day. And the way

:03:50. > :03:55.they presented themselves. Throughout the campaign, we tried to

:03:56. > :04:04.stick to the moral high ground. And not to get involved in mudslinging

:04:05. > :04:11.and so on. And Frank Lee that paid off in the end. At the announcement

:04:12. > :04:17.of the result, apparently Pat McQuaid burst into tears. I think

:04:18. > :04:22.that was an exaggeration. I never saw him in tears, but I'm sure he

:04:23. > :04:29.was disappointed, as is understandable. Any sympathy for

:04:30. > :04:35.I have a lot of respect for him. He I have a lot of respect for him. He

:04:36. > :04:43.achieved a lot in his time. I think it was perhaps unfortunate to him

:04:44. > :04:47.that certain events took place which she did not have much control over,

:04:48. > :04:55.as he might have wished. But ultimately, politics, and it was

:04:56. > :05:02.politics, sports politics, politics can be a nasty game. And sometimes

:05:03. > :05:08.he win and sometimes you lose, as any politician will tell you. The

:05:09. > :05:15.background to the selection was years of suspicion that you had been

:05:16. > :05:22.complicit in ignoring the doping culture. Your first task was to

:05:23. > :05:28.seize all files at their headquarters. That they were all

:05:29. > :05:33.under suspicion? It just means we wanted all the necessary information

:05:34. > :05:38.for the subsequent investigation. All of that information was copied

:05:39. > :05:46.and duplicated electronically and put under lock and key. I have not

:05:47. > :05:50.seen it or investigated it. It has been handed over to the new

:05:51. > :05:56.independent commission. That is presumably because you feared the

:05:57. > :06:01.destruction of the files. Yes, but I'm confident we have the necessary

:06:02. > :06:09.information. If there has been any wrongdoing, then I'm sure that it

:06:10. > :06:14.will be dealt with through that process. It is not a flawless

:06:15. > :06:24.process. No investigation is flawless. But we have the tools to

:06:25. > :06:28.do the job, and we have some great people and that commission who have

:06:29. > :06:31.the skills and experience in what to look for and where to look for it.

:06:32. > :06:35.It is a 3`man enquiry, it has been set up. But the results will only be

:06:36. > :06:44.as good as the evidence presented to it. Pat McQuaid's contribution is

:06:45. > :06:49.essential, isn't it? I would encourage him to come forward. As

:06:50. > :06:55.well as his predecessor. I think they have important evidence to give

:06:56. > :07:01.in the way they did their jobs during that period. That's not to

:07:02. > :07:06.say I'm alleging any wrongdoing, but there been allegations out there,

:07:07. > :07:12.and I think they will want to clear their names. It is important that if

:07:13. > :07:18.we really want to do that, they should contribute to the commission.

:07:19. > :07:24.He said in January he would be willing to co`operate if the terms

:07:25. > :07:27.of reference were OK, and if he could get an assurance it was

:07:28. > :07:32.independent. Can he get that assurance? Absolutely. The terms are

:07:33. > :07:38.out there on the website anyone to see. We have discussed an agreement

:07:39. > :07:41.to make sure they are acceptable to international agencies, because if

:07:42. > :07:47.we didn't do that we would have no credibility whatsoever. And it has

:07:48. > :07:52.not been set up in a way to prejudge any of those issues. I would

:07:53. > :07:56.encourage Pat McQuaid and all of the riders and team officials and

:07:57. > :08:03.everybody else in those entourages, who have something to tell in those

:08:04. > :08:06.years, to come forward. You said at the convention, there had been

:08:07. > :08:10.testimony from a wide range of people. I understand so. That's all

:08:11. > :08:16.I know. I want to be absolutely clear with you that the commission

:08:17. > :08:20.is entirely independent. I don't know who is knocking on their door

:08:21. > :08:25.or whose doors they are knocking on. I have had a broad assurance that

:08:26. > :08:29.already people are, in collaboration and dialogue with the commission. I

:08:30. > :08:34.don't know when they are speaking to the commission. What I really wanted

:08:35. > :08:39.to avoid is any sense that UCI might have, might be interfering with the

:08:40. > :08:43.outcome of the commission. That was certainly an allegation under the

:08:44. > :08:49.previous regime. It has to be genuinely independent. And I am not

:08:50. > :08:56.involved in any sense of the word. The other thing I wanted to avoid is

:08:57. > :09:02.it becoming a circus. So teams of cameramen camped on doors outside

:09:03. > :09:06.the steps of the commission, waiting for Lance Armstrong or whoever else

:09:07. > :09:12.to turn up. We really don't want that. It's not a circus. It's not a

:09:13. > :09:16.theatre. It's a genuine commission of enquiry, going about its work

:09:17. > :09:23.with professionalism, honesty, and integrity, and it will produce an

:09:24. > :09:28.excellent report, I am sure. Move onto lands Armstrong. Stripped of

:09:29. > :09:33.his titles, then the famous confession with Oprah Winfrey.

:09:34. > :09:39.Clearly the enquiry will want his participation. I suppose there is a

:09:40. > :09:42.quid pro quo. He wants his own truth and reconciliation in order to

:09:43. > :09:47.further or resume his professional career. What kind of deal is the

:09:48. > :09:56.commission prepared to offer? There are two things here. First of all,

:09:57. > :10:02.it seems to me that the reputation damage done by his own actions is

:10:03. > :10:07.very substantial. If you really want it restored, he needs to come out

:10:08. > :10:15.and be more truthful, tell all of the truth, like he has told some of

:10:16. > :10:22.the truth to Oprah, but not all of it. I think there is more to come. I

:10:23. > :10:29.would encourage him to come forward. But from the point of view of

:10:30. > :10:37.cycling, he has said he wants to be the first on the queue, knocking on

:10:38. > :10:45.the door. Well there you go, there is the opportunity now to come

:10:46. > :10:55.forward. I hope he will be as good as his word. If the commission want

:10:56. > :11:03.to speak to him, do they have to come to you and make some kind of

:11:04. > :11:10.deal with him about compensation? Not at all. They have the power to

:11:11. > :11:16.recommend things. The problem with lads is he has already been

:11:17. > :11:23.sanctioned. The body that did the sanctioning has to agree to any

:11:24. > :11:27.reduction in sanctions. I believe that the anti`doping agency in the

:11:28. > :11:36.United States will be prepared to make some sort of compromise. What

:11:37. > :11:40.you think it might be? I think they might allow a reduction in the

:11:41. > :11:48.lifetime ban. How much is not a matter for me. But he won't get an

:11:49. > :11:55.amnesty. Would you be happy to see such a tainted cyclist back in

:11:56. > :11:59.cycling? No. But we have to work within the rules that are there. I

:12:00. > :12:03.have some sympathy for Lance Armstrong's contention he was not

:12:04. > :12:10.alone. He certainly was not. The fact is, he was the only one who was

:12:11. > :12:16.victorious in seven tour to France. He made millions. We have a

:12:17. > :12:23.situation that certainly, at the very least, it set a new standard,

:12:24. > :12:28.as it were, or a new low, if I can put it that way, in cheating. You

:12:29. > :12:33.say that you wouldn't like to see him come back to cycling. If he

:12:34. > :12:39.did, what would it do for the reputation of the sport? I don't

:12:40. > :12:44.think there is going to be anything like a zero sanctioned, or anything

:12:45. > :12:51.which would allow him to come back, given his age, to anything like the

:12:52. > :12:55.top level. If he wants to compete at another level, that is a matter for

:12:56. > :13:01.those sports and those disciplines. As far as I am concerned, I don't

:13:02. > :13:06.think it's good. But I guess in any system of justice you have two allow

:13:07. > :13:12.for some redemption. There's nothing you can do about it? There's nothing

:13:13. > :13:17.I could do about it, we are signed up to the international code, and it

:13:18. > :13:21.is important we support them in what they are doing. If you want to apply

:13:22. > :13:27.a double sanction, or something outside the rules, it will get

:13:28. > :13:32.thrown out the courts. So it has to be legal as well is moral and

:13:33. > :13:37.ethical. What you could do is telephone him and asked him to

:13:38. > :13:43.participate. I could, but I don't think that's my role. If the

:13:44. > :13:47.commission wants to do that, maybe they have already done that job. I

:13:48. > :13:54.really don't think it's appropriate for me to be seen to be trying to

:13:55. > :14:00.steer the direction of that. If I did, everybody would then say, or

:14:01. > :14:04.some people would say, Brian Cookson is doing a deal with Lance

:14:05. > :14:19.Armstrong. I have had no contact with him. Have you apologised? Very

:14:20. > :14:24.briefly this morning at the start of the conference, I shook his hand and

:14:25. > :14:28.sat down. Unfortunately, he left before my speech started so did not

:14:29. > :14:35.get the chance to talk but I am sure we will have a good dialogue. He did

:14:36. > :14:38.to your suggestion could be shifted to the Winter Games and demonstrated

:14:39. > :14:43.that you did not like the British sense of humour he had admired for

:14:44. > :14:47.so long. He said your suggestion was a joke! It was not a joke, it was

:14:48. > :14:51.perhaps too radical for some people. It was a little bit inappropriate to

:14:52. > :15:00.mention any particular individual sport. I was trying to establish the

:15:01. > :15:04.principle, if Thomas Bach and his vision project really want us to

:15:05. > :15:08.think outside the box then we should be repaired to take into

:15:09. > :15:15.consideration all ideas. In speaking to a journalist, it was a slightly

:15:16. > :15:19.naive idea. It was off the top of my head, I am sorry for any offence

:15:20. > :15:26.caused. If you think about it, maybe that is not a bad idea. You are not

:15:27. > :15:29.backing down, are you? You even said here today that you raised the

:15:30. > :15:32.possibility of sports Treasury played in the winter and suddenly I

:15:33. > :15:39.begin football reeling from summer to winter. I haven't mentioned

:15:40. > :15:45.football. But you did J Sports traditionally played in the winter.

:15:46. > :15:51.Why other Winter Olympics only contested on snail and ice? It in

:15:52. > :15:56.the Olympic Charter. `` snow. The IOC can change the Olympic charter.

:15:57. > :16:00.When I go around the world, speaking with people about the Olympics and

:16:01. > :16:06.cycling events, they do not say, Ryan, it is too big. They say, we

:16:07. > :16:12.were more cycling events in the Olympics. We won't have more riders

:16:13. > :16:17.qualified. They cannot get enough riders qualified. We had the

:16:18. > :16:20.situation at the London Olympics where Chris Foy was not even

:16:21. > :16:24.selected because each nation was only allowed one competitor. And

:16:25. > :16:32.yet, in other sport you see a whole podium of one nation. There are some

:16:33. > :16:40.huge inconsistencies in Neolithic. And cycling could take place on ice

:16:41. > :16:47.and snow. Thomas Bach has ruled it out. He said they are exclusively

:16:48. > :16:52.for sport which take place on snow and ice. I respect his point of

:16:53. > :16:56.view. I can train to contribute to an injured in debate. I do want to

:16:57. > :17:02.upset anybody for the you do want to upset people within your own sport

:17:03. > :17:07.either. I have to admit that so far, I have not had a lot of support that

:17:08. > :17:12.track cycling should move to the Winter Olympics. It was an idea of

:17:13. > :17:17.the top of my head. I think we should, if not prepared to have

:17:18. > :17:27.interesting debates and discussions, what are we here for? It is an idea.

:17:28. > :17:34.What what about the funding crisis in sport? How badly is cycling

:17:35. > :17:41.underfunded? I get you see as a fallout of doping scandals. I do.

:17:42. > :17:47.Traditionally, professional road cycling, amends in particular has

:17:48. > :17:55.always been on a knife edge. Teams have been very weak with their

:17:56. > :18:02.financial basis. Television rights have been very restricted and

:18:03. > :18:05.difficult. Cycling is an odd sport. You can't sell tickets. It takes

:18:06. > :18:08.place on the public highway in front of your house. That is a

:18:09. > :18:17.disadvantage but it is also an advantage. The Tour de France, it's

:18:18. > :18:25.as if Wimbledon was played on the village green. We learn to live with

:18:26. > :18:31.these minor inconveniences. I am curious about this business about

:18:32. > :18:34.how the public don't seem to be turned off public cycling. The

:18:35. > :18:39.general public are perhaps more excepting of social drugs and

:18:40. > :18:45.performance enhancing drugs will do is that fair? Yellow mat no.

:18:46. > :18:52.Integrity in sport is absolutely essential. Without that, it becomes

:18:53. > :18:58.a circus. Watching the Tour de France lies and seeing people booing

:18:59. > :19:01.and whistling when they see an attack or an incredible performance

:19:02. > :19:05.because they have been pulled into thinking something was exceptional

:19:06. > :19:11.and has proved to be drug fuelled. Now they see something again and the

:19:12. > :19:15.immediate `` immediate perception is, someone is cheating again. The

:19:16. > :19:18.ghost and the other side of the road is great but to go and do an whistle

:19:19. > :19:22.because you think somebody is cheating, that is all integrity and

:19:23. > :19:26.transparency. We have really got to work hard at that. You have taken us

:19:27. > :19:32.back to the Tour de France and I know during the doping scandals a

:19:33. > :19:37.number of riders were simply saying, you cannot compete meaningfully in

:19:38. > :19:42.the Tour de France without doping. Is the action a case for reducing

:19:43. > :19:47.the length of the duration, the difficulty of major events like the

:19:48. > :19:50.Tour de France? I think there probably is. I do not accept it is

:19:51. > :19:54.impossible to compete and win the Tour de France without doping but I

:19:55. > :19:57.do think it is a huge physical challenge. I think we need to look

:19:58. > :20:05.very carefully at the length and degree of difficulty of those major

:20:06. > :20:10.things. How would you do that? Yellow mat I think that is going to

:20:11. > :20:20.be a bit of a bitter pill to swallow. Excuse the analogy! I think

:20:21. > :20:24.that doping is not about the degree of difficulty of the sport. If that

:20:25. > :20:34.was the case, why would they cope in a hundred metres sprint. Nobody is

:20:35. > :20:37.saying that is an easy event. Can we just explore the kind of ideas that

:20:38. > :20:42.you may be having about changes to these major events. Mini to allow

:20:43. > :20:45.riders more recovery time. We should look at the health of the riders a

:20:46. > :20:50.lot more. We should make sure the teams do not put too much demand on

:20:51. > :20:53.them. That is the root of a lot of the problems was up the demand on

:20:54. > :20:59.the riders is set by the administrators who decide on the

:21:00. > :21:06.course. Maybe, instead of visiting both regions, would you say just one

:21:07. > :21:13.mountain... The Tour de France is likely to always last two weeks. The

:21:14. > :21:18.events around that programme are perhaps, we look at them more

:21:19. > :21:22.flexibly to see what the opportunities are. There are some

:21:23. > :21:27.hard discussions to be had. You have to look at that against economic

:21:28. > :21:30.difficulties as well. There is a realisation that we have to have a

:21:31. > :21:34.more balanced calendar. We can't put unreasonable demands on our

:21:35. > :21:39.athletes. There is a dialogue to be had. I am in favour of that dialogue

:21:40. > :21:43.and I don't want to push anybody into it or make any commitments to

:21:44. > :21:48.you today. In general, we have to look at maybe rationalising and

:21:49. > :21:51.reducing the demands on our competitors. Brian Cookson, thank

:21:52. > :22:23.you very much indeed. Thank you. Easter Monday at was a glorious one

:22:24. > :22:26.for much of Scotland and Northern Ireland but further south, we saw

:22:27. > :22:30.conditions deteriorate. We saw cluster showers and under storms

:22:31. > :22:31.developing to the west and they spread